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Peter Lemkin
09-28-2009, 05:25 AM
If you've not heard Roman Polanski was arrested and is soon to be sent to the USA and spend the rest of his life in prison there for a crime 32 years ago the victim has asked be dropped. Further, he was arrested in Switzerland, where he has a home and has been in/out hundreds of times over the years - suddenly when the Swiss are under pressure from the USA. Third, his former wife was murdered by the apparently U.S. Strategy of Tension Manson Gang. He escaped the Warsaw Ghetto in his childhood, is a famous filmmaker, about on his way to pick up a lifetime achievement award....now [barring unforseen and almost unimaginable action] to rot in the American Gulag. Very strange.

Magda Hassan
09-28-2009, 06:55 AM
I heard this too on the radio today and though much the same. He has been in and out of Switzerland countless times over the years. I didn't realise he owns a home there and that makes it even stranger. I find his crime repulsive but if he has conducted himself appropriately since then and if his victim has in some way come to terms with it and does not wish to pursue the matter I don't see why he had to be arrested now or ever. There have been plenty of other times and places he could have been arrested. Why don't they do something really useful and go and arrest Bush and Cheney and the Prince of Darkness instead of leaving it to the Spanish judge?

Peter Lemkin
09-28-2009, 07:41 AM
I heard this too on the radio today and though much the same. He has been in and out of Switzerland countless times over the years. I didn't realise he owns a home there and that makes it even stranger. I find his crime repulsive but if he has conducted himself appropriately since then and if his victim has in some way come to terms with it and does not wish to pursue the matter I don't see why he had to be arrested now or ever. There have been plenty of other times and places he could have been arrested. Why don't they do something really useful and go and arrest Bush and Cheney and the Prince of Darkness instead of leaving it to the Spanish judge?

While I make no defense of his making 'love' to a 13 year old, she not long after the event, when an adult, formally asked the crime NOT be pursued - and has maintained that position for decades. [something that has no legal standing in the US]. I do feel there are some special circumstances in this case: His survival of the Warsaw Ghetto, his crimeless history since; his travel all over the world for many decades in countries that could have arrested and extradited him ; the recent death of one of the killers of Sharon Tate not more than a few days ago; the current pressure the USA is making on the Swiss over bank secrecy [in order to get more tax revenue - the USA is being hypocritical, as it allows foreigners to hide their assets in shell-corporations in the USA!]; there was a plea-bargain arrangement the prosecution reneged on; the history of the Manson Family with U.S. intelligence...and more....there will be NO trial in the USA, if he is extradited [which I heard from legal experts he WILL be!]. He will just be placed in prison for the rest of his life.....

[I]Polanski's long-running legal saga gained new momentum late last year with the release of an HBO documentary, "Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired," which claimed misconduct by the now-deceased judge who handled 1977 case and reneged on a plea deal. With the new evidence presented in the film, Polanski sent a team of lawyers to court in Los Angeles seeking dismissal of the charges.

But despite acknowledging "substantial misconduct," a judge ruled that Polanski would have to appear in person to pursue his motion. Polanski's lawyers said he decided not to risk arrest on a fugitive warrant, and planned instead never to set foot in the United States.

His victim, Samantha Geimer, who long ago identified herself publicly, sued Polanski and reached an undisclosed settlement. But she has since joined in Polanski's bid for dismissal, saying she wants the case to be over and at one point offering to come to court in Polanski's place to argue for dismissal.

...your point is well taken - they always go after the easy small-fry...not the big sharks!

Jan Klimkowski
09-28-2009, 06:07 PM
I heard this too on the radio today and though much the same. He has been in and out of Switzerland countless times over the years. I didn't realise he owns a home there and that makes it even stranger. I find his crime repulsive but if he has conducted himself appropriately since then and if his victim has in some way come to terms with it and does not wish to pursue the matter I don't see why he had to be arrested now or ever. There have been plenty of other times and places he could have been arrested. Why don't they do something really useful and go and arrest Bush and Cheney and the Prince of Darkness instead of leaving it to the Spanish judge?

Polanski drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl he had booked for a photoshoot at the home of Jack Nicholson.

"Hollywood morals" is no defence. So, like you, I find his crime repulsive and morally indefensible.

I also have seen and heard enough to suspect that Polanski is a deeply disturbed and potentially violent individual. Whilst I agree with Peter that the Manson Family was a "strategy of tension" experiment, their victims were not randomly chosen.

There was some deeply nasty stuff going on in the Hollywood circles in which Polanski and the puppet Manson moved. Maury Terry turned over the rock to expose the underside, and everyone screamed and ran for cover....

Having said all that, the timing is interesting given Polanski's frequent trips to Switzerland.

If only the same effort was put into bringing war criminal politicians to justice...

Carsten Wiethoff
09-28-2009, 06:20 PM
This may have absolutely nothing to do with that, and I have no way of knowing, but I notified the Neue Zuercher Zeitung (nzz.ch) by way of a sworn affidavit, that a story that they carried ( http://www.bromox.de/Stimmen.htm) is factually incorrect according to evidence in my posession.

This is basically the evidence that Yesh M. Tembe may not have died on 9/11, but received a pension years later.
The original article is from the New York Times, but seems to be difficult to find in the english original on the web.

I urged the NZZ to investigate with all their available means. I also asked for a written receipt for my message, which, as of today, I did not receive. I will give them a few more days, before grabbing a telephone and talking to some people on the ground in Zurich.

Sometimes the responses of the system are unexpected.

Spooky.

Carsten

Peter Lemkin
09-28-2009, 06:27 PM
I heard this too on the radio today and though much the same. He has been in and out of Switzerland countless times over the years. I didn't realise he owns a home there and that makes it even stranger. I find his crime repulsive but if he has conducted himself appropriately since then and if his victim has in some way come to terms with it and does not wish to pursue the matter I don't see why he had to be arrested now or ever. There have been plenty of other times and places he could have been arrested. Why don't they do something really useful and go and arrest Bush and Cheney and the Prince of Darkness instead of leaving it to the Spanish judge?

Polanski drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl he had booked for a photoshoot at the home of Jack Nicholson.

"Hollywood morals" is no defence. So, like you, I find his crime repulsive and morally indefensible.

I also have seen and heard enough to suspect that Polanski is a deeply disturbed and potentially violent individual. Whilst I agree with Peter that the Manson Family was a "strategy of tension" experiment, their victims were not randomly chosen.

There was some deeply nasty stuff going on in the Hollywood circles in which Polanski and the puppet Manson moved. Maury Terry turned over the rock to expose the underside, and everyone screamed and ran for cover....

Having said all that, the timing is interesting given Polanski's frequent trips to Switzerland.

If only the same effort was put into bringing war criminal politicians to justice...

The powers that be have had 32 years to 'bring him to justice' if that is what is needed. He served the agreed-upon two months in prison, but in ways not fully clear the Judge, after release, reneged on the plea-bargain. A Judge a year ago said that he saw large areas of judicial malfeasance in the original trial, but that he wouldn't rule without Polanski there, in person. While I can understand someone wanting to leave the USA's 'Justice' system [cough, cough] before 9-11, since, I can't imagine any sane person who'd readily submit to it....whatever strange things Polanski might have or have not been involved in or with. It smacks of O.J. Justice to me......and some points for the Swiss. I think in such a case one needs to look at ALL the factors involved. A coincidence that someone involved in Tate's murder died recently and can't tell all? I wonder....cynical 'ol me. No one is excusing his behavior....but I find it slightly less of a crime than those of, say, W, Rummy, Chaney, et al.....no one's going after them...not even a gesture of same....not to mention the innocent framed or railroaded and rotting in prison.

Carsten Wiethoff
09-28-2009, 06:29 PM
Also regarding Polanski, it seems to be a commonly used modus operandi of the CIA, that when they want to get hold of specific people that they cannot get to openly, that false charges are produced or real, minor charges are trumped up to force an extradition, or to at least threaten the victim enough that they won't talk.
I would be very interested in what Polanski could tell us about his involvement with US organizations, if any.
If anybody is interested, I have collected evidence of several such cases, sometimes successful (from the standpoint of the CIA), sometimes not.
Dirk Stoffberg, Reiner Jacobi, Russbacher etc. come to mind.
Interesting.

Carsten

Peter Presland
09-28-2009, 06:38 PM
Also regarding Polanski, it seems to be a commonly used modus operandi of the CIA, that when they want to get hold of specific people that they cannot get to openly, that false charges are produced or real, minor charges are trumped up to force an extradition, or to at least threaten the victim enough that they won't talk.
I would be very interested in what Polanski could tell us about his involvement with US organizations, if any.
If anybody is interested, I have collected evidence of several such cases, sometimes successful (from the standpoint of the CIA), sometimes not.
Dirk Stoffberg, Reiner Jacobi, Russbacher etc. come to mind.
Interesting.

Carsten
Carsten

Polanski pleaded guilty to the charge (rape of a 13 year old girl) 30 odd years ago then fled the country before sentencing. There' no question about the man's guilt and I personally have zero sympathy for him.

What does interest me is the timing of the arrest. What exactly prompted it right now?

He's being reported here in the UK as having been 'on the run', whereas he owned a massive property in Switzerland which he lived in openly whilst travelling all over Europe and elsewhere.

It may just possibly be connected with the US / UBS fracas but I'm still intrigued.

Jan Klimkowski
09-28-2009, 06:42 PM
Polanski was originally charged with sodomizing, ie anally raping, the 13-year-old girl. This charge was dropped as part of the plea bargain.

Damien Lloyd
09-28-2009, 06:55 PM
Didn't he also rape Natasha Kinski Wen she was 15 whilst filming Tess?

Carsten Wiethoff
09-28-2009, 07:53 PM
Whether or not Polanski raped the holy virgin Mary or not is absolutely not relevant in this case.
DO NOT TRY TO TELL ME THAT THIS IS ABOUT ANYTHING SEXUAL.

Looking at this with sufficiently clear eyes, this is about regaining control over Polanski, this man is in some way dangerous to the Borg and they want to get him back into (Mind?-)controlled safety NOW, not 30 years ago.

So something relevant concerning current events is buried in the mind of Polanski. Does anybody have a contact address? I'd like to ask Polanski some questions, publicly, if possible.

Carsten Wiethoff

Myra Bronstein
09-28-2009, 09:23 PM
He drugged and raped a child. He should be in prison, and the fact that he was a fugitive for decades does not erase the crime. Furthermore the fact that the, now grown, victim is not seeking prison for him is irrelevant. Authorities still have every right to prosecute him.

I have personal sympathy for him for his horrible childhood and the murder of his wife. Nonetheless, he drugged and raped a child.

Magda Hassan
09-29-2009, 01:11 AM
Didn't he also rape Natasha Kinski When she was 15 whilst filming Tess?
Not sure Damien but it is ringing a bell or two.

Magda Hassan
09-29-2009, 01:25 AM
....
What does interest me is the timing of the arrest. What exactly prompted it right now?

He's being reported here in the UK as having been 'on the run', whereas he owned a massive property in Switzerland which he lived in openly whilst travelling all over Europe and elsewhere.

It may just possibly be connected with the US / UBS fracas but I'm still intrigued.
The UBS angle is something that I am noticing also Peter. Switzerland did somewhat offer him up on a plate and they didn't have to and never did until yesterday. I am sure some people will be quickly making other arrangements with their bank accounts and/or citizenship status. As was recently recommended by the Swiss banks themselves.

I would not have said that Polanski was 'on the run' as reported in the UK press but he has avoided going to the US. He has lived very openly in Europe for many years.

The coincidental timing of Susan Aitken's death in the same week is I think just coincidence. But spooky all the same.

Charles Drago
09-29-2009, 02:12 AM
The coincidental timing of Susan Aitken's death in the same week is I think just coincidence. But spooky all the same.

Nope.

Magda Hassan
09-29-2009, 02:29 AM
What do you think Charles?

Peter Lemkin
09-29-2009, 05:14 AM
The coincidental timing of Susan Aitken's death in the same week is I think just coincidence. But spooky all the same.

Nope.

I'm inclined to agree with Charles here. The real reasons are 'Deep' and go back to Manson and who was running them. Timing on such things can be 'everything'. We'll probably never know exactly, this will be like the Japanese Bond caper and be dealt with in private, after some publicity. The public part, to me, is likely 'Circus' to amuse the Plebs, and distract from something past, going on, or planned. Without making any excuses for what he likely did. [He pleaded guilty to sex with a minor, but didn't plead guilty to the drugging - nor was it proven in court - the family of the 13 year-old gave their permission for her to be with him alone.....and [sadly] this 'kind' of stuff is fairly common in 'Hollywood']. Again, not to excuse him. The Judge and Prosecutor broke their agreement with him. I think it is more complex that the surface story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Tate
On August 8, 1969, Tate was two weeks from giving birth. She entertained two friends, actresses Joanna Pettet and Barbara Lewis, for lunch at her home, confiding in them her disappointment at Polanski's delay in returning from London. In the afternoon Polanski phoned her. Her younger sister Debra also called to ask if she and their sister Patti could spend the night with her, but Sharon declined. In the evening she went to her favorite restaurant, El Coyote, with Sebring, Frykowski and Folger, returning about 10:30 p.m.[1]

During the night they were murdered by members of Charles Manson's "Family" and their bodies discovered the following morning by Tate's housekeeper, Winifred Chapman. Police arrived at the scene to find the body of a young man, later identified as Steven Parent, shot to death in his car, which was in the driveway. Inside the house, the bodies of Tate and Sebring were found in the living room; a long rope tied around each of their necks connected them. On the front lawn lay the bodies of Frykowski and Folger. All of the victims, except Parent, had been stabbed numerous times. The coroner's report for Tate noted that she had been stabbed sixteen times, and that "five of the wounds were in and of themselves fatal".[14]

Police took the only survivor at the address, the caretaker William Garretson, for questioning. Garretson lived in the guest house which was located on the property, but a short distance from the house, and not immediately visible. As the first suspect, he was questioned and submitted to a polygraph test. He said that Parent had visited him at approximately 11:30 p.m. and left after a few minutes. Garretson said he had no involvement in the murders and did not know anything that could help the investigation. Police accepted his explanation and he was allowed to leave.

Polanski had been informed of the murders and returned to Los Angeles where police, unable to determine a motive, questioned him about his wife and friends. The funerals for the five victims were held on Wednesday, August 13. Sharon Tate was interred in the Holy Cross Cemetery, Culver City, California, with her son, Paul Richard Polanski (named posthumously for Polanski's and Tate's fathers), in her arms. The funerals of Tate and Sebring were separated by several hours to allow mourners to attend both.

Life magazine devoted a lengthy article to the murders and featured photographs of the crime scenes. Polanski was interviewed for the article and allowed himself to be photographed in the living room where Tate and Sebring had died, Tate's dried blood clearly visible on the floor in front of him. Widely criticized for his actions, he argued that he wanted to know who was responsible and was willing to shock the magazine's readers in the hope that someone would come forward with information.[2]

Curiosity about the victims led to the re-release of Tate's films, achieving greater popularity than they had in their initial runs. Some newspapers began to speculate on the motives for the murders. Some of the published photographs of Tate were allegedly taken at a Satanic ritual, but were later proven to have been production photographs from Eye of the Devil. Friends spoke out against the portrayal of Tate by some elements of the media. Mia Farrow said she was as "sweet and pure a human being as I have ever known", while Patty Duke remembered her as "a gentle, gentle creature. I was crazy about her, and I don't know anyone who wasn't". Polanski berated a crowd of journalists at a press conference, saying that many times they had written that Tate "was beautiful. Maybe the most beautiful woman in the world. But did you ever write how good she was?".[1] Peter Evans later quoted the actor Laurence Harvey, who commented on Polanski immediately after the murders, "This could destroy Roman. Marriage vows mean nothing to him but few men have adored a woman as much as he adored Sharon."[8]

Polanski later admitted that in the months following the murders he suspected various friends and associates, and his paranoia subsided only when the killers were arrested. Newspapers claimed that many Hollywood stars were moving out of the city, while others were reported to have installed security systems in their homes. Writer Dominick Dunne later recalled the tension:“ The shock waves that went through the town were beyond anything I had ever seen before. People were convinced that the rich and famous of the community were in peril. Children were sent out of town. Guards were hired. Steve McQueen packed a gun when he went to Jay Sebring's funeral.[15] ”

[edit]
Arrest and trial of the Manson Family

Jay Sebring, pictured here with Tate in 1966, was killed when he attempted to defend her against the attackers.

In November 1969, while in prison in connection with a car theft, Susan Atkins boasted to an inmate that she was responsible for the murder of Sharon Tate. This led to her indictment, along with the accomplices she named, Charles Manson, Charles "Tex" Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel and Linda Kasabian. Atkins also revealed that the murders of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca in Los Feliz, Los Angeles, the night after the Tate murders, were also committed by "Family" members, and incriminated Leslie Van Houten as a participant in the second murder.

The Los Angeles County District Attorney offered Susan Atkins immunity from prosecution in exchange for her grand jury and trial testimony. Atkins testified before the grand jury and admitted that she had stabbed Sharon Tate because she was "sick of listening to her, pleading and begging, begging and pleading". Atkins refused to cooperate further, forcing the District Attorney's office to withdraw its immunity offer to Atkins, and offer immunity to Kasabian instead. Kasabian drove her accomplices to 10050 Cielo Drive but mostly waited in the car during the murders. Assistant District Attorney Vincent Bugliosi wrote later that he was relieved that his office withdrew its immunity offer to Atkins.[14]

On June 15, 1970, Manson, Atkins, Krenwinkel, and Van Houten were tried while Watson remained in Texas fighting extradition. The details of the trial were reported throughout the world. Kasabian was a reliable and consistent witness. She testified about a hippie group and its leader Charles Manson, a thwarted musician who believed that a race war was imminent. He believed that the music of The Beatles warned of the coming holocaust, which he referred to as Helter Skelter, after the Beatles song, and also believed that only the "chosen", his "family", would survive. Briefly associated with Terry Melcher, Manson had believed that Melcher would foster his musical aspirations; when this did not occur, Manson felt infuriated and betrayed. Manson believed that he would bring about the race war by having his followers slaughter wealthy people in their homes and cast suspicion on militant groups such as the Black Panthers. Manson expected these groups to win the race war, and predicted that they would make him their leader when they realized they were too inept to govern the new society. He had been to 10050 Cielo Drive, and although he knew that Melcher had moved, the house represented his rejection by the show business establishment. He instructed Watson, Atkins, Krenwinkel, and Kasabian to go to the house "and kill everyone there", while he remained in their camp at Spahn's Movie Ranch.[14]

Kasabian's and Atkins' testimony provided details that had not previously been reported to the public. When the group scaled a fence surrounding the property, they were seen by Steven Parent, who was leaving in his car. Watson approached the vehicle and ordered it to stop. Parent asked Watson not to hurt him, and promised that he would not say anything, but Watson's response was to slash him with a knife and shoot Parent four times. Watson then instructed Kasabian to remain outside and keep watch while the others entered the house. The four occupants were rounded up into the living room and tied together at gunpoint. When Watson ordered the occupants to lie on their stomachs, Jay Sebring urged the intruders to consider Tate's pregnancy and not harm her. Watson immediately shot Sebring. Wojciech Frykowski and Abigail Folger escaped, running in different directions onto the front lawn, where they were overtaken and killed. Tate begged for her child's life, pleading that the group abduct Tate and let her give birth before murdering her. Atkins testified that she replied to Tate, "Look, bitch, I have no mercy for you. You're going to die and you'd better get used to it." Atkins and Watson then stabbed her to death. Atkins mopped up some of Tate's blood with a towel and used it to write "PIG" on the front door. They left Tate's house after midnight and returned to Spahn Ranch.[14]

The defendants were found guilty and sentenced to death on March 29, 1971. Watson was tried separately after extradition from Texas. Psychiatrists testified that he appeared to be feigning insanity, and while he admitted his role in all of the killings, he refused to acknowledge his responsibility, and was widely quoted by the press when he blandly stated that he had not noticed that Sharon Tate was pregnant. He was found guilty and sentenced to death on October 21, 1971. The death sentences were later automatically commuted to life in prison after the California Supreme Court's People v. Anderson decision resulted in the invalidation of all death sentences imposed in California before 1972. As of 2009, Manson, Watson, Krenwinkel, and Van Houten remain incarcerated, each having failed to obtain parole more than a dozen times since becoming eligible.[1] Atkins died in prison on September 24, 2009.[16]

[3 days later Polanski is arrested!...]

Jan Klimkowski
09-29-2009, 05:42 PM
For a more in-depth view of Manson, Tate, Atkins, Watson et al, see the following DPF threads:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107

In the above thread, the Sadie Mae Glutz who the hooting Mansonites tease with "ha ha - you fucked a CIA guy" is Susan Atkins, the newly deceased butcher of Sharon Tate.

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698

From the above thread, I've copied post #8 here:



I am reminded that Sharon Tate came from an Air Force family and lived in this area too when she was murdered. FWIW probably not much.

Paul Tate, Sharon Tate's father, was Army Intelligence.

After Sharon and her unborn child had been slaughtered, Paul Tate went on a journey into the dark, sleazy, criminal subculture that the Manson Family inhabited.

The world of garbage cans, Kenneth Anger, the Process Church of the Final Judgement, the OTO, Hollywood's wildest families, and "acid" that produced entirely different mindtrips from LSD.

A world where sex and violence, glamour and pain, manipulation and psychosis, were intricately linked.

It has been suggested that Paul Tate's journey into this otherworld was, in part, the inspiration for Paul Schrader's nightmarish movie Hardcore, starring George C Scott, and 8mm starring Nicolas Cage.

In the introduction to Vol 3 of Peter Levenda's brilliant Sinister Forces, Paul Krassner discusses the evidence of everyone from Dennis Hopper to private investigators that the LAPD found & sold hardcore films of Sharon Tate after her murder.

Hopper was one of the sources for persistent tales of the public flogging of a drug dealer (possibly filmed) at Cielo Drive just prior to the slaughter.

And, as I've written before, there have also been persistent - and briefly published - claims that Manson had a Naval Intelligence handler who provided him with highly experimental and potent drugs. Drugs from the dark side...

See also:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2031

Charles Drago
09-29-2009, 06:39 PM
What do you think Charles?

Are you familiar with this intel-related term of art: "cleaning out a row"?

Helen Reyes
09-29-2009, 09:14 PM
Immediately thought of USB, but can't make out a Swiss motive unless it's to expose something to Americans in a sort of revenge over hidden details of the UBS/Swiss agreement to turn American account information over to the IRS. That assumes the Swiss know something we don't, that they want revenge and that extradition would somehow achieve exposure.

The only detail that pops to mind is the Polannski/Tate dinner on the eve of of RFK's assassination, but I can't remember the connexion.

The press is saying Polanski is a French citizen and resident. The Swiss are thereby acting outside/against the EU, for whatever reason, possibly it's grease for the wheels of US payments for Swiss-held derivatives. Just a thought.

Jan Klimkowski
09-29-2009, 09:24 PM
The only detail that pops to mind is the Polannski/Tate dinner on the eve of of RFK's assassination, but I can't remember the connexion.


Allegedly, on the night before Senator Robert Kennedy's assassination (June 5, 1968), RFK had dinner with director John Frankenheimer and Roman Polanski and his wife Sharon Tate.

Frankenheimer was of course the director of the original The Manchurian Candidate and Seven Days In May. John F Kennedy apparently spoke with Frankenheimer about both projects.

Technical adviser on The Manchurian Candidate was MK-ULTRA programmer, William Jennings Bryan, who has links to Candy Jones and Sirhan Sirhan (amongst many other notables).

Peter Lemkin
09-30-2009, 05:23 AM
The only detail that pops to mind is the Polannski/Tate dinner on the eve of of RFK's assassination, but I can't remember the connexion.


Allegedly, on the night before Senator Robert Kennedy's assassination (June 5, 1968), RFK had dinner with director John Frankenheimer and Roman Polanski and his wife Sharon Tate.

Frankenheimer was of course the director of the original The Manchurian Candidate and Seven Days In May. John F Kennedy apparently spoke with Frankenheimer about both projects.

Technical adviser on The Manchurian Candidate was MK-ULTRA programmer, William Jennings Bryan, who has links to Candy Jones and Sirhan Sirhan (amongst many other notables).

The plot thickens!....now, that is a very interesting coincidence (sic)!

Magda Hassan
09-30-2009, 06:27 AM
Nothing unusual about any of that either, I suppose. But consider the web spun by the man known as Charles Milles Manson. Now this is where we really cut to the core of the dark underbelly of Hollywood. Join me then, if you will, as we embark on a journey that I like to call "Seven Degrees of Charlie Manson."
Before doing so, allow me to introduce a few members of the stellar cast of this strange and twisted tale:

# Sharon Tate - the most famous of the Manson victims, and the daughter of Colonel Paul Tate, U.S. Army Intelligence. Tate was killed on August 9, 1969, along with Abigail Folger, Steven Parent, Jay Sebring, and Voytek Frykowski.
# Kenneth Anger - former child-star turned underground filmmaker, and the son of a 'military-industrial complex' engineer who developed machine-guns for Kellogg during WWII and later worked for Douglas Aircraft.
# Judy Garland - child actor and singer who was kept drugged on a daily basis from about the age of five, first by her mother, and then by the studios. Garland was found dead on the summer solstice of 1969, just seven weeks before the Tate/LaBianca murders.
# John Phillips - musician/composer who founded the singing group The Mamas and The Papas and who was born in a military hospital, the son of a career Marine officer. John later attended the U.S. Naval Academy.
# Roy Radin - theatrical producer who specialized in staging vaudeville revival shows. Radin was working with Robert Evans to produce The Cotton Club when he was shot some twenty-seven times in the head in 1983. Radin began his career while still a teenager by staging shows in Masonic temples.
# The Hell's Angels - the most well-known of the biker gangs that arose after WWII due to the efforts of returning OSS and military officers. The Angels were led by Ralph "Sonny" Barger, reportedly an informant for the Oakland Police Department who was also on the payroll of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
# Jayne Mansfield - actress/sex symbol who was decapitated, allegedly in a car accident, on June 29, 1967. According to Jayne's daughter, Mansfield's parties featured the rich and famous getting naked and filming themselves. Tate and husband RomanPolanski were reportedly the producers and collectors of 'fame porn' as well.
# Robert F. Kennedy - U.S. Senator and presidential candidate who was assassinated in Hollywood on June 5, 1968. Kennedy was allegedly shot from point-blank range behind his right ear by Sirhan Sirhan, who was standing several yards in front of and to the left of the candidate. Like I said, shit happens.

Without further ado, we begin this journey - for no particular reason - with the aforementioned Phil Hartman, who was a highschool friend of Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, who later became a disciple of Charlie Manson, a jailhouse correspondent of John Hinckley, and the attempted assassin of President Gerald Ford, who was once a roommate of modeling entrepreneur Harry Conover, whose wife was the infamous Candy Jones, who was 'treated' by CIA-linked hypnotist William Jennings Bryan, who also 'treated' the purported Boston Strangler, Albert DeSalvo, whose name was written repetitively throughout the diaries of Sirhan Sirhan, who was also 'treated' by Bryan, who served as the technical director on The Manchurian Candidate, which was directed by John Frankenheimer, at whose beach house a dinner was held on June 5, 1968 whose attendees included "Mama" Cass Elliot, Roman Polanski, and Sharon Tate, who was killed just over a year later by followers of Charlie Manson, whose music was recorded by Doris Day's son, music producer Terry Melcher, who lived with girlfriend Candace Bergen at 10050 Cielo Drive the year before it became a slaughterhouse after being rented by Polanski, who initially was slated to pen the screenplay for Day of the Dolphin, which purported to tell the story of Dr. John Lilly, who was a friend of Timothy Leary, whose Mellon family-owned Millbrook estate was frequently visited by Dr. Max "Feelgood" Jacobson, who once 'treated' Judy Garland and who served as the personal physician of John Kennedy, whose assassination prompted the shelving of the film The Manchurian Candidate by its star, Frank Sinatra, who was a frequent companion of fellow 'Brat Packer' Sammy Davis, Jr., who was an acknowledged member of Anton LaVey's Church of Satan, from where Manson recruited killers Bobby "Cupid" Beausoleil and Susan "Sexy Sadie" Atkins, who confessed to her cellmates that she had stabbed to death actress Sharon Tate, who was inducted into witchcraft on the set of the Polanski-directed film The Fearless Vampire Killers by Alexander "King of the Witches" Saunders, who received 'training' as a child from Aleister Crowley, whose followers included Anton LaVey and fellow Church of Satan member Kenneth Anger, who was the roommate (and probable lover) of Family member Bobby Beausoleil, who once appeared in an underground film titled Mondo Hollywood, which also featured hairdresser and Manson victim Jay Sebring, who was a former lover of Sharon Tate, who was a friend of a wealthy widow named Charlene Caffritz, who played host to - and filmed the exploits of - Charlie and some of his girls, who also lived for a time with Beach Boy Dennis Wilson, who recorded a song penned by Charlie, who was an occasional member of the entourage of Mama Cass, who was listed as a defense witness for Charlie's trial (but never called), as was her Mamas and the Papas band-mate John Phillips, who was close to Polanski, Tate, Melcher, Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Cass Elliot, and film producer Robert Evans, who was working with - and very likely contracted the execution killing of - Roy Radin, whose assistant was Michael DeVinko aka Mickie DeVinko aka Mickie Deans, who married - just a few months before her untimely death - Wizard of Oz star Judy Garland, who as a teen was flooded with phone messages and telegrams by admirer Oscar Levant, whose dead body was found by Candace Bergen, who - as a photojournalist for Life magazine - covered the preempted presidential campaign of Robert Kennedy, who was romantically linked to Marilyn Monroe, who was also linked to Anton LaVey, who appeared in Kenneth Anger's Invocation of My Demon Brother (released in August of 1969) along with Bobby Beausoleil, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, who was a guest at the 1968 London wedding of Sharon Tate to Roman Polanski, who - during a nude photo shoot - molested a thirteen-year-old girl at the home of Jack Nicholson, who was a friend of Cass Elliot, as were Robert Evans and Manson victims Jay Sebring, Voytek Frykowski and Abigail Folger, who provided funding for the Himalayan Academy, which Kenneth Anger helped form with Timothy Leary, who was at the side of the stage at the 1969 Altamont concert where - while the Rolling Stones played the Process Church-inspired Sympathy for the Devil* - a fan was killed on film by the Hell's Angels, who had been romanticized and transformed into anti-establishment heroes in the film Scorpio Rising by Kenneth Anger and the book Hell's Angels by Hunter S. Thompson, both of whom have been accused of making snuff films** for private collectors, which was also a favorite pastime of Charlie Manson, one of whose underage recruits was Didi Lansbury, who had written permission to travel with Charlie from her mother, Angela Lansbury, who starred as the control agent in The Manchurian Candidate, which was based on the novel of the same name by Richard Condon, who once served as a publicist for Walt Disney, who once owned the home where the Manson Family slaughtered Leno LaBianca and wife Rosemary, who was involved in the trafficking of drugs, as were many of those in this twisted saga, including Charles Manson, victims Voytek Frykowski and Abigail Folger, John Phillips and Kenneth Anger, who was a huge fan of the dark and violent imagery of the Rosicrucian-inspired, L. Frank Baum-penned Oz books, which inspired the band The Magick Powerhouse of Oz, which was led by Bobby Beausoleil, who was also at one time in the band Love with Arthur Lee, four of whose members later turned up dead or missing and presumed dead, as did Charlene Caffritz, Cass Elliot (who allegedly choked on a sandwich in 1974), Dennis Wilson (who allegedly drowned on December 28, 1983), and Gram Parsons, whose corpse was stolen and burned at Joshua Tree on the autumnal equinox of 1973 by his band's road manager, Phil Kaufman, who was a good friend from prison of Charlie Manson, who met (at Cass Elliot's house) and received money from victim Abigail Folger, who also funded Kenneth Anger, who at various times lived with both Jimmy Page (who purchased Crowley's home and many of his artifacts) and Keith Richards & Anita Pallenberg, whose home - in 1979 - yielded the body of a teenager who had been shot to death, as was John Lennon the next year by Mark David Chapman, who shortly before doing so met with - and offered a gift of live bullets to - Kenneth Anger, whose films were cited as a major influence by photographer Robert Mapplethorpe, who was implicated by witnesses in the Halloween 1981 execution killing of New York photographer Ronald Sisman (a close associate of Roy Radin), who was reportedly in possession of a snuff film of one of the Son of Sam murders, which were allegedly committed by David Berkowitz, who from prison accurately described the Sisman killing before it happened and who took the fall for the Son of Sam murders to cover up the involvement of others, including possibly Roy Radin and wealthy art dealer Andrew Crispo, who admitted being present at the site of a ritual murder which was committed by a man named Bernard LeGeros, who was the son of a State Department official, as was Pic Dawson, who was a regular member of the entourage of Cass Elliot, as was a one-time bodyguard of publisher Larry Flynt named Bill Mentzer, who was convicted of killing Radin and who was suspected of involvement in numerous other contract murders, including some of those attributed to David Berkowitz, who was 'examined' by psychiatrist/hypnotist Daniel Schwartz, as was Mark David Chapman, who was obsessed with the film The Wizard of Oz and the book The Catcher in the Rye, which was written by reclusive author J.D. Salinger, who served in the OSS with Henry Kissinger, who was a close adviser to Gerald Ford, who once met and shook hands with Mark David Chapman, who was 'examined' by psychiatrist/hypnotist Bernard Diamond, who also 'examined' Sirhan Sirhan, who had connections to the Process Church, as did many of those ensnared in this sordid web, including Kenneth Anger, John Phillips, Roy Radin, David Berkowitz and Charlie Manson, who attended a New Year's Eve party at the home of John Phillips, who wrote the siren song of the 'Summer of Love,' bringing thousands of hippies and flower children streaming into San Francisco and into the hands of such figures as Louis "Dr. Jolly" West, Anton LaVey, Charlie Manson, Bobby Beausoleil, Timothy Leary and Kenneth Anger, who - just three days after the suspicious death of Rolling Stone Brian Jones - filmed the Hell's Angels stomping the crowd at a 1969 Stones concert in London, just five months before they did the very same thing to the crowd at Altamont, which was organized by San Francisco attorney Melvin Belli, who consulted with F. Lee Bailey whilst the latter was busily railroading Albert DeSalvo and later consulted with Richard "The Night Stalker" Ramirez, who was offered an honorary membership in the Church of Satan by Anton LaVey's daughter Zeena, who along with boyfriend Nickolas Schreck staged an event on 8-8-88 celebrating the slaughter of the victims of the Manson Family, who some researchers believe were involved in the murders attributed to the "Zodiac," who called and sent correspondence to Melvin Belli, whose clients included the widow of Hermann Goering and Jack Ruby, who assassinated Lee Harvey Oswald, the purported assassin of John Kennedy, whose brother Robert was romantically linked to Jayne Mansfield, as was Anton LaVey, who served as Roman Polanski's technical director on the 1968 film Rosemary's Baby, which was set in New York's Dakota Apartments, where John Lennon was gunned down by Mark David Chapman, who shared a fixation on The Catcher in the Rye with failed assassin John Hinckley, Jr., who stalked actress Jodie Foster, who is working on a film biography of Leni Riefenstahl, who was met by - and admired by - fellow filmmaker Kenneth Anger, who laced his film Scorpio Rising with Nazi imagery, including the prominent use of swastikas, not unlike the one carved into the forehead of Charlie Manson, who - at the Cielo Drive home of Polanski and Tate - had a chance meeting with Nancy Sinatra, the daughter of Frank Sinatra, who was married to actress Mia Farrow, who starred in the Polanski-directed Rosemary's Baby, which was produced by Robert Evans, a friend of Henry Kissinger, who was the righthand man of President Richard Nixon, whose election was ensured by the assassination of Robert Kennedy by Sirhan Sirhan, who was yet another client of Melvin Belli, as were the Hell's Angels and Nazi-collaborator Errol Flynn, who made two films with Ronald Reagan, who was an occasional visitor to the childhood home of Candace Bergen, who - as a photojournalist - chronicled the short-lived administration of Gerald Ford, who married one of his friend Harry Conover's 'Covergirls,' who later opened the Betty Ford Center, where various celebrities in and out of this web routinely check in for tune-ups.
I could probably go on, but I really have to get back to work on my screenplay. I'm thinking of trying to break into Hollywood. I have this great script about a guy who is propelled to the heights of power through a combination of fraud, arrogance, legal manipulation and public denial to lead an imperialist military power that masterfully uses propaganda to turn reality on its head.
When the man-who-would-be-king first takes office, the public views him with a considerable amount of well-deserved skepticism. But then there is an apparent attack upon the state which is used as a pretext to rally the support of the people behind a reactionary social agenda and a war of unspecified duration with unspecified goals. Some suspect that the attack was actually an inside job, but they are ridiculed by those who scoff at the notion that their government would attack one of its own institutions.
Meanwhile, the anti-hero sells the country out to huge corporate and financial interests and institutes overt police state measures to keep the masses in line should the people ever begin to catch on that their collective reality is little more than a grand illusion. Much later, historians reluctantly admit that the purported attack was in fact a staged provocation, but by then it is too late.
I'm almost done with the final draft. I just have to decide whether to name my anti-hero Adolf or George. Then I'm going to have my people get in touch with Jerry Bruckheimer's people and close the deal.
Of course, I might have to take out some of the plot elements and replace them with gratuitous, but really cool, special effects sequences. But it will still be a great movie. Maybe even as good as the biography of the Marquis de Sade that Kenneth Anger had long planned to film, in the original castle where deSade's crimes were committed. But that's another story altogether.

Peter Presland
09-30-2009, 08:06 AM
More coincidences - 7 degrees of Charlie Manson Dave McGowanAn impressive archive of connections on the dark side. I guess the facetiousness of 'coincidences' is justified under the weight of an otherwise vast web of occult connections; but my guess is that there is very little of genuine coincidence throughout the piece.

Pretty sombre and sobering stuff it is too.

I'm even more intrigued by the Polanski arrest timing. The more I ponder it, the less I think it is connected with US/Swiss manoeuvrings over UBS. The whole nexus of issues exposed in that McGowan piece have pretty much vanished from public view over the period of Polanski's 'fugitive' life. Whilst he is unlikely to be in a position to do much light-shedding from a US prison, my revised guess - and it is a guess - is that the timing is more likely connected with some grouping (Swiss/US SIS's; other power brokers, whatever) deciding that renewed light-shedding might serve their purposes.

Sure as Hell it is NOT just another of those 'coincidences'

David Guyatt
09-30-2009, 11:00 AM
The only detail that pops to mind is the Polannski/Tate dinner on the eve of of RFK's assassination, but I can't remember the connexion.


Allegedly, on the night before Senator Robert Kennedy's assassination (June 5, 1968), RFK had dinner with director John Frankenheimer and Roman Polanski and his wife Sharon Tate.

Frankenheimer was of course the director of the original The Manchurian Candidate and Seven Days In May. John F Kennedy apparently spoke with Frankenheimer about both projects.

Technical adviser on The Manchurian Candidate was MK-ULTRA programmer, William Jennings Bryan, who has links to Candy Jones and Sirhan Sirhan (amongst many other notables).

The plot thickens!....now, that is a very interesting coincidence (sic)!

Indeed yes - and new to me too.

Dawn Meredith
09-30-2009, 11:14 AM
I heard this too on the radio today and though much the same. He has been in and out of Switzerland countless times over the years. I didn't realise he owns a home there and that makes it even stranger. I find his crime repulsive but if he has conducted himself appropriately since then and if his victim has in some way come to terms with it and does not wish to pursue the matter I don't see why he had to be arrested now or ever. There have been plenty of other times and places he could have been arrested. Why don't they do something really useful and go and arrest Bush and Cheney and the Prince of Darkness instead of leaving it to the Spanish judge?

Polanski drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl he had booked for a photoshoot at the home of Jack Nicholson.

"Hollywood morals" is no defence. So, like you, I find his crime repulsive and morally indefensible.

I also have seen and heard enough to suspect that Polanski is a deeply disturbed and potentially violent individual. Whilst I agree with Peter that the Manson Family was a "strategy of tension" experiment, their victims were not randomly chosen.

There was some deeply nasty stuff going on in the Hollywood circles in which Polanski and the puppet Manson moved. Maury Terry turned over the rock to expose the underside, and everyone screamed and ran for cover....

Having said all that, the timing is interesting given Polanski's frequent trips to Switzerland.

If only the same effort was put into bringing war criminal politicians to justice...

He drugged her and also raped her anally. His sentence was very light, days compared to the years a regular non Hollywood perspn would get. Then he fled. She was 13. Different rules if you're famous. Does anyone else here have a daughter? Or one was was raped? Sorry I have zero sympathy.

Dawn Meredith
09-30-2009, 11:21 AM
The only detail that pops to mind is the Polannski/Tate dinner on the eve of of RFK's assassination, but I can't remember the connexion.


Allegedly, on the night before Senator Robert Kennedy's assassination (June 5, 1968), RFK had dinner with director John Frankenheimer and Roman Polanski and his wife Sharon Tate.

Frankenheimer was of course the director of the original The Manchurian Candidate and Seven Days In May. John F Kennedy apparently spoke with Frankenheimer about both projects.

Technical adviser on The Manchurian Candidate was MK-ULTRA programmer, William Jennings Bryan, who has links to Candy Jones and Sirhan Sirhan (amongst many other notables).

The plot thickens!....now, that is a very interesting coincidence (sic)!

Indeed yes - and new to me too.


Hmmmm...this is weird. I did not know about the dinner. There are too many timing coincidences here.

Jan Klimkowski
09-30-2009, 07:19 PM
Many courageous and gifted researchers have delved into this deep dark world. Mae Brussell, John Judge, Maury Terry, Adam Gorightly, Peter Levenda, Dave McGowan.

Dave McGowan's beatnik rap piles coincidence upon coincidence in a way that perhaps only Jung could unpick.

Here's a speculative trip into this world.

Disclaimer: I can vouch for the absolute truth of none of the following. I can confirm its archetypal ugliness.

As a child, Polanski was traumatized by his experiences. This may have helped him become an artist of great talent. However, his films have a coldness, a meticulous devotion to form and appearance. His films also frequently contain scenes of violence, sometimes extreme violence - see early work such as A Murderer (1955), A Knife in the Water (1962) and Repulsion (1965), and his first film after the slaughter, The Tragedy of Macbeth (1972), which is explicit both in its violence and in its portrayal of the potency of sexuality.

In 1967, Sharon Tate was cast in The Fearless Vampire Killers against Polanski's wishes. He was tyrannical in his directing of her, insisting on Tate completing seventy takes for one particular scene.

According to Dave McGowan, Tate was inducted into witchcraft by a very prominent Wiccan and Crowleyite during the filming of The Fearless Vampire Killers.

In the foreword to Vol 3 of Peter Levenda's Sinister Forces, Paul Krassner writes about the "porn flicks" that the LAPD allegedly discovered in the loft of the Cielo Drive slaughter scene:


"I consulted San Francisco private investigator Hal Lipset, whose career had been the basis for The Conversation, starring Gene Hackman. Lipset informed me that not only did Los Angeles police seize porn movies and videotapes, but also that individual officers were selling them. He had talked with one police source who told him exactly which porn flicks were available - a total of seven hours' worth for a quarter-million dollars. Lipset began reciting a litany of these porn movies. The most notorious was Greg Bautzer, an attorney for financier Howard Hughes, together with Jane Wyman, the former wife of then-Governor Ronald Reagan. There was Sharon Tate with Dean Martin. There was Sharon with Steve McQueen. There was Sharon with two black bisexual men.

"'The cops weren't too happy about that one,' Lipsett recalled.

"There was reportedly a video of Cass Elliott from The Mamas and The Papas in an orgy with Yul Brynner, Peter Sellers and Warren Beatty. Coincidentally, Brynner and Sellers, together with John Phillips of The Mamas and The Papas, had offered a reward of $25,000 for the capture of the killers. I always felt these executioners had a prior connection with their victims. I finally tracked down a reporter who had hung around with police and seen a porn video of Susan Atkins with one of her victims, Wojciech Frykowski. When I asked Manson about that, he responded: 'You are ill advised and misled. [Victim Jay] Sebring done Susan's hair and I think he sucked one or two of her dicks. I'm not sure who she was walking out from her stars and cages, that girl loves dick, you know what I mean, hon. Yul Brynner, Peter Sellers...'"

Polanski is obsessed with image and form, and his themes are death, violence and the occult. His interest in sex is essentially gynaecological and voyeuristic.

He is precisely the type to have filmed beautiful women fucking, including or perhaps especially, his wife. He probably even ordered retakes....

Murdered with Tate were Jay Sebring, a longtime sexual partner of Tate, and a major cocaine and mescaline dealer. Frykowski and the heiress Folger were also, at the very least, participant in the sex, drugs and violence in which these characters were immersed.

Dennis Hopper was allegedly involved in a party in Cielo Drive, a few days before the Manson Family paid their visit, whose highlight was the flogging of a drug dealer (over a bum deal). Hopper's flagellation was - surprize surprize - allegedly filmed.

Dave McGowan on Dennis Hopper:


For those who may be unfamiliar with Hopper’s body of work, he is the guy who was once found wandering naked and bewildered in a Mexican forest. And the guy who, after divorcing Hayward in 1969, married Michelle Phillips on Halloween day, 1970, only to have her file for divorce just eight days later claiming that Hopper had kept her handcuffed and imprisoned for a week while making “unnatural sexual demands.”

Without passing judgment here, I think it’s fair to say that Michelle Phillips has been around the block a time or two, if you catch my drift, so if even she thought Hopper’s demands were a bit over the top, then one can only wonder just how “unnatural” they might have been. For what it’s worth, Hopper just recently told a journalist that he “didn’t handcuff her, [he] just punched her out!” In his mind, apparently, that makes him somewhat less of an asshole.

Most official biographies of Hopper would lead one to believe that he was the son of a simple farmer. Dennis recently acknowledged, however, that that was clearly not the case: “My mother’s father was a wheat farmer and I was raised on their farm. But my father was not a farmer.” To the contrary, Hopper’s dad was “a working person in intelligence” who during WWII “was in the OSS. He was in China, Burma, India.” Hopper has proudly proclaimed that his father “was one of the 100 guys that liberated General Wainright out of prison in Korea,” which might be a little more impressive were it not for the fact that it was actually the Red Army that freed Wainright and other prisoners; the US intel team just came to pick them up, debrief them and transport them home … but that, I suppose, isn’t really relevant.

After the war, according to Hopper, his dad carried a gun, which I suppose is what most lay ministers in the Methodist Church do. The family also left the farm in Kansas and relocated to San Diego, California, home of the Imperial Beach Naval Air Station, the United States Naval Radio Station, the United States Naval Amphibious Base, the North Island Naval Air Station, Fort Rosecrans Military Reservation, the United States Naval Training Center, the United States Marine Corps Recruit Depot, and the Miramar Marine Corps Air Station. And just north of the city sits the massive Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Base. Other than that though, San Diego is just a sleepy little beach town where Hopper’s dad ostensibly worked for the Post Office.

The modern version of Dennis Hopper, by the way, is wildly at odds with the hippie image that he at one time tried very hard to cultivate. Today’s Dennis Hopper is an unapologetic cheerleader for Team Bush who proudly boasts of having voted a straight Republican ticket for nearly thirty years. He could very well turn up on the campaign trail in the coming months with his lips firmly planted on the ass of war criminal John McCain.

http://www.illuminati-news.com/articles2/00225.html

It seems the part of the sexual psychopath, Frank Booth, in Blue Velvet, came very easily to Hopper.

Polanski's frequent executive producer and collaborator was Robert Evans. For those with eyes wide open, consider Maury Terry's The Ultimate Evil.

In 1977, eight years after Sharon Tate, with an unborn child in her womb, was carved up by the Manson Family, the 44-year-old Roman Polanski drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl, probably sodomizing her.

Back in 1968, also reportedly at the dinner on the eve of Bobby Kennedy's assassination involving RFK, Frankenheimer, Polanski and Tate, was "Mama" Cass Elliott of The Mamas and The Papas.

There is no record of Manchurian Candidate technical consultant and MK-ULTRA narco-trauma-hypnosis programmer, William Jennings Bryan, attending the dinner.

I'm going to be self-indulgent and quote myself:


Synopsis of the 1940 film of Maeterlinck's Blue Bird, starring Shirley Temple:


Mytyl (Shirley Temple), the bratty daughter of a woodcutter, finds a unique bird in the Royal Forest and selfishly refuses to give it to her sick friend. That night she is visited in a dream by a fairy named Berylune who sends her and her brother Tytyl to search for the Blue Bird of Happiness. To accompany them, the fairy magically transforms their dog Tylo, cat Tylette (played by Gale Sondergaard), and lantern ("Light") (played by Helen Ericson) into human form. The children have a number of adventures including a visit with their (deceased) grandparents in the Land of the Past, a stay in The Land of Luxury, an attack by angry trees and lightning which results in a forest fire, a meeting with Father Time, and, in the Land of Tomorrow, populated by unborn children, a meeting with Abraham Lincoln as a young boy (he prophesies "they will destroy me"), and a meeting with their future sister. The dream journey makes the previously unhappy and selfish Mytyl awake as a kinder and gentler girl who has learned to appreciate all the comforts and joys of her home and family. Much like MGM's The Wizard of Oz, the story starts in sepia and changes to Technicolor for the magical dream sequence.

Sharon Tate's own words:


“I’d like to be a fairy princess––a little golden doll with gossamer wings, in a voile dress, adorned with bright, shiny things. I see that as something totally pure and beautiful. Everything that’s realistic has some sort of ugliness in it."

Project Blue Bird was the first known codename for the narco-hypnosis-behaviourist-trauma mind control experimentation undertaken by US intelligence agencies in the immediate aftermath of WW2.

A key part of Lee Harvey Oswald's intelligence legend was created at the Bluebird cafe in Yamato, whilst he was stationed at the U-2 and MK-ULTRA base otherwise known at Atsugi.

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698

Candy Tate

Sharon Jones

The Bluebird of Happiness.

The Blue Bird of Synchronicity.

When is a coincidence a synchronicity?

Maurice Maeterlinck and L'oiseau bleu

Tap tap tap tap tap......

Magda Hassan
10-01-2009, 12:10 AM
Another thing that happened this week which may just be another coincidence and peripheral is the release of the book by Mackenzie Phillips who is the daughter of John Phillips of the iconic 60's band The Mama and the Papas. In it she reveals that she and her Papa had an incestuous relationship for several years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/22/mackenzie-phillips-oprah_n_294479.html

Keith Millea
10-01-2009, 03:18 AM
Let's not forget the recent (strange) death of David Carradine.

http://www.maxim.com/movies/articles/84030/last-days-david-carradine.html



In 1974, while he was starring in Kung Fu, Carradine was convicted of wandering into a neighbor’s home in Laurel Canyon high on peyote, trashing the place, then sitting down to play the piano. (The police apprehended him by following the trail of blood—two pints’ worth—from a broken window.) The same day, Carradine leapt from a car naked and bleeding and attacked a woman he believed to be a witch, beating her and demanding she remove her clothes, for which he was later forced to pay $20,000. This was followed by drug arrests, DWIs, and assault charges too numerous to mention. Carradine’s duality—a healthy lifestyle advocate who smoked two packs a day; a spiritual being whose most prized possession was his Ferrari—carried over to many of the roles he played, from the ass-kicking monk of Kung Fu to the cold-blooded assassin and loving father of Kill Bill.

Carradine was married five times, and within days of his death stories broke in the U.S. press about his robust history of sexual adventurism. Unnamed friends claimed he had a history of engaging in autoerotic asphyxiation, the practice of choking oneself (usually with a noose) to produce more intense orgasms. In divorce papers filed by his fourth wife, Marina Anderson, she cited “abhorrent and deviant sexual behavior.” (She also reported “an incestuous relationship with a very close family member.”) Another of his ex-wives, Gail Jensen, told the New York Daily News that he would construct elaborate bondage devices to tie himself up. A quick call to the Stretch production office reaches someone who identifies himself as “the American,” who says the film is currently “in flux.” Russ Markowitz, who helped finance the film, informs me later that the crew members were all made to sign agreements not to comment on Carradine or Stretch. “From what I was told,” he says, “Carradine was very prepared and professional on set and kept to himself during his time off. I believe he was sched--uled to work the next day.”

:listen:

Helen Reyes
10-01-2009, 10:23 AM
Another thing that happened this week which may just be another coincidence and peripheral is the release of the book by Mackenzie Phillips who is the daughter of John Phillips of the iconic 60's band The Mama and the Papas. In it she reveals that she and her Papa had an incestuous relationship for several years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/22/mackenzie-phillips-oprah_n_294479.html

Yeah, Controlled News Network's Larry King just interviewed her about her dad raping her as I was reading his name in the Jungian stream-of-coincidence post.

Helen Reyes
10-01-2009, 10:57 AM
Candy Tate

Sharon Jones

The Bluebird of Happiness.

The Blue Bird of Synchronicity.

When is a coincidence a synchronicity?

Maurice Maeterlinck and L'oiseau bleu

Tap tap tap tap tap......

Well, the EXTREMELY popular Judy Garland film was based on Maeterlincks's play...

Don't forget the final scene of Blue Velvet starring Dennis Hopper. It's a blue bird I believe, portrayed to look stuffed and contrived. I think you can even see the strings.

And what is an angel but a bird with a larger cranium? Marlene Dietrich and the (Navy's?) flying fighter jet squadron, the Blue Angels...

And then you get back to another symbolist, a stout Catholic this one, he says, while he also says he's a Jew. Oskar OV de Lubicz Milosz and his language of the birds, picked up by Czeslaw Milosz his Nobel laureate cousin (for the book the Captured Mind about Communism) as well as by the traditionalist Rene Guenon, who describes the language of the birds from an initiatory and Islamic perspective.

And if we conflate birds and angels for the moment, then we also have another coincidence: the Enochian calls, Dee's language of the angels Crowley was so interested in, and which Jack Parsons used in rituals with L Ron Hubbard to manifest the Whore of Babylon who would give birth to the Antichrist.

This is the hidden theme running through these coincidences: the attempt to create a moon child who would be the Antichrist. That's what Rosemary's Baby and Sharon Tate's murder have in common, and the Process Church and the Church of Satan up in San Francisco.

You also get the idea the Navy is involved. This could be a false lead to throw people off the scent. A competitor with Naval intelligence perhaps.

Anton LaVey was a notorious carnival huckster. He cursed Jane Mansfield but didn't expect it to work. Either Operation CHAOS had really good collection and operational abilities, or some dark power really did hear his curse, or it was coincidence. He later made a lot out of it, just like he claimed to have had sex with Marylin Manson. He claimed he worked as a consultant on Rosemary's Baby. Undocumented. He might have served unwittingly as a sort of recruitment and PR front for Process and Manson type operations. With Process you have to consider it as partly a British initiative, so Operation CHAOS wasn't pure American intel.

If Charles Drago is correct about them cleaning out the stables and if I were Dennis Hopper, I'd seriously consider going to Australia to do some charity work to save the womabts for a while.

Jan Klimkowski
10-01-2009, 09:56 PM
OK - some Kalifornia weirdness.

Mama Cass Elliot was reportedly present at the Frankenheimer Last Supper. Her wide social entourage allegedly included Charles Manson. Manson, the Scientological "Clear", undoubtedly moved in hip musical circles, knowing - for instance - various Beach Boys. It's claimed that Manson knew and had received money from Cielo Drive heiress and slaughter victim Abigail Folger. It's also claimed that Cass Elliot's entourage contained one Bill or William Mentzer, who was briefly a bodyguard for Larry Flynt.

Maury Terry's Ultimate Evil extensively details the drugs, sex & violent occultism around Hollywood producer Robert Evans and the so called "Young Turks" (Nicholson, Hopper, Fonda etc).

Robert Evans was the producer of Roman Polanski's Rosemary's Baby. Some accounts - this may be bullshit - have it that the face of Satan who impregnates Farrow/Rosemary belongs to Anton LaVey.

Here's the denouement of Rosemary's Baby, with Mia Farrow wandering into Satan's lair with a knife. It ends with her accepting the demonic Roman's invitation to be a mother to Satan's offspring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNG6ZSiIfCE

Imagine Charles "Tex" Watson and Susan "Sadie Mae Glutz" Atkins, trippy trapped in EA1729 MK-ULTRA "acid" Manson Family paranoia land, creeepycrawling into Cielo Drive's sex and violence lair, and coming face to face with Roman "Rosemary's Baby" Polanski's angelically beautiful wife, heavily pregnant with Satan knows what inside her belly.

Precisely what did Atkins believe she was carving out of Sharon Tate's womb?

Before scrawling "pigs" in Tate's blood on the Cielo Drive walls, and providing spurious evidence for Bugliosi's Helter Skelter race war narrative....

Robert Evans later produced The Cotton Club, which seems to have been some kind of money-laundering-meets-major-international-cocaine-dealing farce. Amongst the financial backers of The Cotton Club were Las Vegas casino owners Edward and Fred Doumani, who put $30 million into the film, notoriously spooky arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi, and vaudeville promoter Roy Radin.

Radin was later the victim of a professional hit. Radin's assassin is one of the central figures of Maury Terry's The Ultimate Evil, known throughout the book as Manson II.

Terry alleges, based in part on confessions from Son of Sam David Berkowitz, that the Process Church of the Final Judgement, itself a British breakaway from L Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology, contained cells which were known variously as Four Pi, the Circe Order and The Children, and paid homage to a Grand Master known as the Grand Chingon or Chignon.

Four Pi/The Children/Grand Chignon had a fetish about German shepherds. They revered them, they probably fucked them, and they liked to sacrifice them. Son of Sam the dog made me do it nutcases that they were. Oh and the legend has it that they also liked to kidnap, fuck and sacrifice hitchhikers. In a Zodiacal kind of way....

http://alienbodies.wikidot.com/four-pi-movement

One of the first true investigators of the Manson Family, Ed Sanders, pursued the Process link all the way through to Charlie, the Spiral Staircase and the Grand Chignon. Sanders was then sued by the Process, and the relevant chapter of his book was removed and ritually burnt.

All Kalifornia weirdness.

Random and meaningless.

Maury Terry's sources claimed that some of the Son of Sam murders were filmed as commissioned snuff movies. Terry pursued this lead. According to Terry, during prison interviews, Berkowitz described a future murder - that of Cotton Club backer Roy Radin's friend Ronald Sisman, who allegedly had a copy of one of the Son of Sam snuff movies. Sisman was murdered in 1981.

In 1983, Roy Radin was professionally hit.

According to Terry, by Four Pi/The Children's or whatever they now called themselves' Manson II .

Well, to clarify, Radin was shot in the head at close range 27 times....

For a long time, Maury Terry refused to divulge the identity of Manson II, but stated that he had moved in the circles of both Charlie Manson and Mama Cass Elliot.

All Kalifornia weirdness.

Random and meaningless.

Manson II, Roy Radin's assassin, was Bill Mentzer.

Magda Hassan
10-02-2009, 04:34 AM
Was Mentzer Flynt's bodyguard when Larry was shot by chance?

Charles Drago
10-02-2009, 11:03 AM
In re cleaning out the row:

Dennis Hopper has been hospitalized with "flu-like symptoms."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/30/dennis-hopper-hospitalize_n_304677.html

Helen Reyes
10-02-2009, 01:25 PM
In re cleaning out the row:

Dennis Hopper has been hospitalized with "flu-like symptoms."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/30/dennis-hopper-hospitalize_n_304677.html

wombat-flu.

Jan Klimkowski
10-05-2009, 08:44 PM
Fwiw.

Back in 1983, anarchist art band Psychic TV (aka Thee Temple ov Psychick Youth), were openly taunting both the Rolling Stones about the murder of Brian Jones in the song "Godstar" and Roman Polanski about his, um, lusts.

Psychic TV released a song entitled "Roman P", which contained looped words of Charles Manson and Jim Jones, and the following lyrics:


Roman you are, Roman you be
Roman in your history
Roman in your victory
Roman in your destiny


The corruptor you are
The corruptor you be

Are you free, are you really free?
Are you really, really, really, really, really free?
Is it you or is it me?
Or is it simply history?
Are you free, are you really free?
Are you really, really, really, really, really free?
Is it you or is it me?
Or is it simply jealousy?

Sharon walks alone as your wife
Sharon gives her life for a knife
Sharon floating high up above
Sighing, crying, dying below


Life of money, life of sex
Life of money, life of hex
Little girls drinking and eating of cake
Little girls gorge you, your greatest mistake

Jan Klimkowski
10-08-2009, 04:33 PM
This should shock. Instead, it's tediously unsurprizing....


French minister who demanded Roman Polanski be freed paid for sex with 'young boys' in Thailand
By Peter Allen
Last updated at 10:35 AM on 08th October 2009

The French government minister who led calls to free Roman Polanski was under pressure to resign today after it emerged he paid for sex with ‘young boys’.

Frederic Mitterand, who is openly gay and a close friend of First Lady Carla Bruni, had described the arrest of the film director for sleeping with a 13-year-old girl as ‘absolutely horrifying’.

But critics were today pointing to the Culture Minister's autobiography ‘The Bad Life’, in which he admits having been a sex tourist in Thailand.

Mitterand, nephew of the late Socialist president Francois Mitterand, wrote: ‘I got into the habit of paying for boys.

'All these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excite me enormously. One could judge this abominable spectacle from a moral standpoint but it pleases me beyond the reasonable.’

Bizarrely, there was little fuss when the book first came out in 2005.

But when Mitterand began trying to defend Polanski there was an outcry - to the great embarrassment of French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who also initially defended Polanski.

Polanski is in a Zurich jail facing deportation to the U.S. over an outstanding conviction for unlawful sexual intercourse with a 13-year-old girl in 1977.
But Mitterand has been leading the calls for the famous film director to be freed.

Today he was slammed by critics on French television and radio.
Benoit Hamon, the opposition Socialist Party spokesman, said: ‘As a minister of culture he has drawn attention to himself by defending a film maker and he has written a book where he said he took advantage of sexual tourism.

'To say the least, I find it shocking.’

Jean-Marie Le Pen’s far-right National Front Party has also called for Mitterand’s resignation.

In turn, Mitterand responded that he was ‘flabbergasted’ by the fuss, saying: ‘If the National Front drag me through the mud then it is an honour for me. If a leftist politician drags me through the mud then it is a humiliation for him.’

Mitterrand joined the cabinet in June after Ms Bruni championed him as a friend of the arts from a great political dynasty.

France initially called for Polanski’s release, but has since withdrawn its support for the 76-year-old director of films like Rosemary’s Baby, Chinatown and The Pianist.

In recent years France has been active in prosecuting French citizens for sex with under-age prostitutes in Thailand.

In the past politicians could hide behind strict privacy laws and a general view among the French that private lives should remain just that.

Mitterrand’s late uncle, who was President from 1981 to 1995, kept a second family and illegitimate daughter secret until the year before he left office.

But conventions are changing, with the French voting public increasingly expecting the kind of transparency provided by the media in countries like Britain

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1218962/French-minister-Frederic-Mitterand-demanded-Roman-Polanski-freed-paid-sex-young-boys-Thailand.html#ixzz0TMYScbV2

The language in the article is also a disgrace.


Frederic Mitterand, who is openly gay and a close friend of First Lady Carla Bruni, had described the arrest of the film director for sleeping with a 13-year-old girl as ‘absolutely horrifying’.

Polanski did not "sleep" with a 13-year-old girl. He drugged and raped her, allegedly anally.


Benoit Hamon, the opposition Socialist Party spokesman, said: ‘As a minister of culture he has drawn attention to himself by defending a film maker and he has written a book where he said he took advantage of sexual tourism.

"Sexual tourism". Um, no. An utterly shameful phrase to describe organized paedophilia.

Myra Bronstein
10-09-2009, 01:43 AM
Was Mentzer Flynt's bodyguard when Larry was shot by chance?

Exactly what I want to know.

Beware the bodyguard: JFK's Secret Service/Emory Roberts et al, Robert Kennedy's Thane Eugene Cesar, and Bill Mentzer?

Helen Reyes
10-11-2009, 11:12 AM
Fwiw.

Back in 1983, anarchist art band Psychic TV (aka Thee Temple ov Psychick Youth), were openly taunting both the Rolling Stones about the murder of Brian Jones in the song "Godstar" and Roman Polanski about his, um, lusts.

Psychic TV released a song entitled "Roman P", which contained looped words of Charles Manson and Jim Jones...

That's funny, I just stumbled across some audio clips of Charlie

Charles Manson Dumb People (http://www.tennesseebillsotr.com/otr/Audio%20History/Great%20Speeches/Great%20Speeches%20-%20Charles%20Manson%20-%20Dumb%20people.mp3)

Charles Manson Speech to Parole Officers (http://www.tennesseebillsotr.com/otr/Audio%20History/Great%20Speeches/Great%20Speeches%20-%20Charles%20Manson-%20Speech%20to%20Parole%20Officers.mp3)

Jan, does the flu vaccination thing going on currently remind you of Jim Jones' suicide drills? "Just take the damn wafer!"

Jan Klimkowski
10-11-2009, 05:06 PM
That's funny, I just stumbled across some audio clips of Charlie

Charles Manson Dumb People (http://www.tennesseebillsotr.com/otr/Audio%20History/Great%20Speeches/Great%20Speeches%20-%20Charles%20Manson%20-%20Dumb%20people.mp3)

Charles Manson Speech to Parole Officers (http://www.tennesseebillsotr.com/otr/Audio%20History/Great%20Speeches/Great%20Speeches%20-%20Charles%20Manson-%20Speech%20to%20Parole%20Officers.mp3)


Manson is correct in the essentials. He's a constructed bogeyman injected into the American psyche.

The sicko who killed the Sixties.

Their Manufactured Killer who proved to Mom and Pop that Peace and Love are Deadly and Dangerous. Order. Discipline. Prisons. Executions.

Dammit - human emotion must be kept under Kontrol.

Manson is the serial killer who never murdered anyone. He got others to murder for him, using an Ultra-effective recipe.

The Manson Secret. In Peter Levenda's sense. And mine, in several threads on DPF.



Jan, does the flu vaccination thing going on currently remind you of Jim Jones' suicide drills? "Just take the damn wafer!"

It's of the same species.

It's an obedience drill.

Will you, all of you, do as Authority, as Daddy, tells you?

Jones' version was called White Night.


One and only one cookie was the rule. Noone, not even a
preferred aide who otherwise enjoyed special privileges, was
allowed more than one cookie. On one occasion, a young
Black girl who was baking the cookies, in the kitchen,
unaware that the flour had been spiked with drugs, handed
one out an open window to her boyfriend. Temple guards, who
monitored every step of the cookie production, reported the
infraction to Jones. At the next community-wide meeting, the
young girl and boy were called to the stage, ordered to
disrobe and forced to have sex in full view of the entire
congregation. Such was the humiliating punishment for
violating the one cookie rule and understandably so, as such
an infraction would alter the controlled dosage and taint
the test results.

There were only two other mandatory weekly rituals in
Jonestown and both were related to the one cookie. The first
was a weekly TPR examination in which the medical staff
examined each of the test persons and recorded their
temperature, blood pressure, respiratory system, weight and
other health monitors in the Test Person's medical records.
This was necessary to determine if the mind control drugs
could be detected in standard medical examinations. Though
the average American might have a physical examination once
in five years, and the medical profession recommends (to
their profit) a yearly exam, the Jonestown residents
received a weekly examination. The second weekly ritual in
Jonestown was the White Night rehearsal in which Jones
ordered his congregation to drink what they were told was poison and commit suicide for the "cause."

Following the final White Night, the Jonestown guards
identified the dead and catalogued them in two separate
groups, those who voluntarily drank cyanide and those who
had to be forcibly injected. This took time to accomplish
which accounts for the long delay before outsiders were
allowed to enter the compound. As the cause of death was
noted on the medical records of each Test Person, the
corpses were dragged to one side and placed in neat, orderly
piles. This was a mistake, as death from cyanide poisoning
is preceded by such violent contortions that victims often
die with only the top of their head and the heels of their
feet touching the ground. The Jonestown residents could
never have died in the neat, orderly piles in which they
were found.

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2195&highlight=jonestown
http://www.fonebone.net/Jonestown/12.Chap.txt

The flu vaccination is not cyanide-laced Kool Aid. But then that's not what killed most of the Jonestown preterite....

Myra Bronstein
10-12-2009, 02:49 AM
...



Jan, does the flu vaccination thing going on currently remind you of Jim Jones' suicide drills? "Just take the damn wafer!"

It's of the same species.

It's an obedience drill.

Will you, all of you, do as Authority, as Daddy, tells you?

Jones' version was called White Night.

Obedience drill. Apt term.

This subject, linking the flu "vaccine" to the white nights, deserves its own thread.

Magda Hassan
10-21-2009, 08:37 AM
Swiss 'tipped off US' on Polanski




http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46552000/jpg/_46552343_-3.jpg Polanski was arrested as he arrived in Zurich to receive a film festival award

Newly released documents have shed light on how fugitive film director Roman Polanski came to be arrested during a trip to Zurich last month.
The AP news agency said e-mails show that the Swiss authorities tipped off their US counterparts that Polanski, 76, was preparing to travel to Zurich.
The filmmaker was held as he travelled from France to collect an award.
He has been wanted in the US since pleading guilty to unlawful sex with an underage girl and then fleeing in 1978.
The US authorities have so far declined to say how they learned of Polanski's trip to Zurich.
But the e-mails revealed by AP, following a public records request, show that the information came from the Swiss Federal Office of Justice.
After receiving the tip-off, US federal officials alerted prosecutors in Los Angeles, who drafted an arrest warrant, according to AP.
Correspondents say is not clear why Switzerland chose to pursue Polanski now, when the director has been a frequent visitor to that country.
He has lost an appeal to be released on bail and is currently being held in a Swiss jail ahead of his possible extradition to the United States.

Helen Reyes
10-27-2009, 10:44 AM
I'm going to be self-indulgent and quote myself:


Synopsis of the 1940 film of Maeterlinck's Blue Bird, starring Shirley Temple:

...

[I]Candy Tate

Sharon Jones

The Bluebird of Happiness.

The Blue Bird of Synchronicity.

When is a coincidence a synchronicity?

... ......

Possibly related: Operation Blue Jay? Centered around the construction of Thule Air Force Base in NW Greenland ca. 1949 (agrees with a Fred Lee Crisman presence, not the first US base in Greenland however) with Space Command crew (originally just satellite tracking?).

http://www.bwcinet.com/thule/bm.html


A view of Thule in 1949
Email received from Bill MacDowell:

If it wasn't for the Navy, you guys would never had the opportunity to be there. Nice to hear from you on the net. Regards, Bill Macdowell

Maybe you're interested in the real beginning of the base. I was on the USS Wyandot, AKA 92 (Cargo ship) when we entered North Star Bay in 1949. There was absolutely nothing there except eskimos, the Danes and weathermen.

The Wyandot's mission was top secret and classified the original Operation "Blue Jay". We brought the first material to start the base. On board were our compliment of Navy personnel, the Seabees, the Marines, with amphibious equipment, etc.

What you call Mt. Dundas, we called Perry's Peak (or Mountain).

There were no hangers for airplanes and equipment and food stuffs were under tarpolins. We had to examine each and every eskimo for TB and other problems and more important, if anyone of us had a cold we were restricted from going ashore. To get ashore we used M-Boats. We also worked 12 hour shifts in order to beat the ice flow. There is much more to tell, but you get the picture.

Your site was very interesting and brought back many memories. Thanx Bill Macdowell...e-mail: norska@gate.net .

http://www.thuleforum.com/blue-j.htm


OPERATION BLUE-J.....

The construction of the Thule Air Base.

Because of the harsh artic environment in which it was built, consideration into both the material used to build the airbase and the preparation of the earth upon which it was built had to be given. Various contractors had to witness the manufacturer of material used in the airbase construction. While at Thule the amount of earth preparation, the work site required before construction could begin.

In addition there was the massive logistical operation needed for Blue Jay.

Operation Blue Jay goes back to 1949 when communist aggression was in full flight in Indo-China and against United Nations forces in Korea and President Harry S. Truman declared a national emergency. In Washington a secret meeting was held in the office of the Chief of Engineers. Present at this meeting were:

Lieutenant General Lewis A. Pick, then major general, Chief of Engineers;

Brigadier General Noland, Deputy Chief of Engineers

Peter Kuwin builder of airfields, and large dams.

S.J. Groves one of the builders of the New Jersey and Pennsylvania Turnpike, and

Joe Green construction expert.

The job was to be approximately 900 miles north of the Artic Circle far beyond any shipping lane. The job was to build a great airbase for America's long range bombers high on the northwest coast of Greenland at the tiny settlement called Thule, and built with the permission of the Danish Government. The base would push America's defence line 2,000 miles to the north. Blue Jays strategic location was ideal, but its construction in only four short months seemed impossible.

The impossible was just a challenge to American resourcefulness. Industry and the Armed Forces joined hands to put across Blue Jay on time. Industry developed new designs that would stand-up to the severe strains of the artic winter.

Clements panels used for refrigerator walls were adapted to buildings and hanger. More than 300-thousand were used at Blue Jay. Over 11-million board feet of lumber would be needed for housing and storage. Steel for hanger trusses to stand a hurricane blast of the artic winter was fabricated. And steel for the water distillation and giant fuel tanks each 200 tons were needed. Lacking port facilities at Thule eight old LST unloading docks were improvised.

Their superstructures were chopped off at deck level to provide a smooth unobstructed dock surface now called "dumb barges" they would be towed to Thule and anchored as permanent piers. Throughout the spring of 1951 a tidal wave of equipment rolled into the Army base at Norfolk, Virginia, the prime staging area for Blue Jay. A 6-million tons of cargo moved to Norfolk. At the same time at Rosemont, Minnesota, another procurement program was underway for men.

Here in the upper Midwest was to be found a pool of workers experienced in cold weather construction. These men are being tested and given work trials. And they are also getting survival training. An advance party of these men were sent to Thule to prepare the worksite for the main body due to arrive by ship in June. Sites for hangers, barracks, roads, and quarries were staked out by-the Deputy District Engineer for the Northwest District.

Temporary shelters were put up. The Atwell Hut for example is shipped as a compete building in a single package. Soil samples are being taken and the beach being cleared. Back at Norfolk supply yards were jammed by early. Shovels, bulldozers, asphalt plants, graders, and rock crushers were all loaded onto ships.

Rolling stock is being loaded and trucks are being sea proofed for the voyage. DUKW' scrolled onboard by the score loaded with fuel and other vital cargo so they could dash ashore as soon as the ships reached their destination. Embarking also were 3,000 men of the engineers, signal and transportation corps plus other military specialists plus the bulk of the civilian workmen. On June 6, 1951 this armada steamed out of Norfolk and headed north. 82 ships carried a cargo valued at $125-million.

The ships are churning their way through ice with icebergs and pack ice. The convoy halted and held fast in an ice pack. And a Coast Guard icebreaker is breaking a path through the ice for the ships.

Finally on July 9 the fleet steamed into North Star Bay at Thule. Their two-week voyage took twice that long and which meant that two weeks were lost. This time had to be made up some how. Ships had hardly anchored when the control headquarters' ship Monrovia raced into high gear to get the convoy unloaded. Cargo was loaded into landing craft manned by 1,000 seamen.

Eventually 153-thousand long tons of cargo were unloaded onto the beach. Work crews 4,000 strong were ferried to shore from their quarters on five personnel carriers. They operated in two shifts, 60% on first or day shift and 40% on the second shift. As soon as earth-moving equipment disembarked from LST's they went to work around the clock in good as well as bad weather seven days a week.

The first objective was the giant airstrip with its runway, which is being prepared. The newly completed airstrip received two key visitors on August 8, when Lieutenant General Hoyt Vandenberg, Air Force Chief of Staff and General Pick arrived to check on construction progress at Thule. At this time there was only 2 months left to work.

The fuel tanks are being constructed and the welders are working night and day on them. Also under construction is the pipeline as it was being rigged and would run out over a mile from the fuel tanks to the tankers. There are also preparations of the land, needed to support this construction.

On August 30, Secretary of the Air Force, made an inspection visit and with less than two months left, found the work is ahead of schedule. Barracks were under construction, and as soon as they were completed the workmen moved ashore and ships departed for home.

On October 1, Lieutenant General Curtis LeMay, Chief of the Strategic Air Command, visited Thule, and was briefed by Colonel Clarence Renshaw, Northeast District Engineer. A snow and sleet storm is lashing the worksite. At the first break in the weather the work crews checked out for a flight home. In only 104 days Blue Jay was operational. A year later the new base had the benefit of another work season.

The military value of Greenland was not generally recognized until World War II, when weather stations and airfields were constructed at various places in Greenland by agencies of the United States. In August 1943 the Army Air Forces established a weather station at Thule to be operated by Danish personnel. This was accomplished on a verbal contract, which was confirmed in October 1945. (The Allies and the Nazis had a weather-station building race in Greenland; Denmark was occupied by the Nazis. The US occupied a strategically-important kryolite mine, used in aluminium manufacture, in SW Greenland early in the war.-Helen)

In 1946 the United States and Denmark agreed to expand the work of the station at Thule, and personnel of the U.S. Weather Bureau joined the Danes in operating the weather station. New buildings, a radio station, and a gravel airstrip were constructed in 1946 by the Army Air Forces, operating as a part of a joint military task force. The airstrip was prepared between July and September 1946, and the first Air Transport Command aircraft landed on 9 September. Thule became a resupply point for other arctic weather stations, and the airstrip was also utilized for polar reconnaissance flights.

U.S. - Danish memorandums of 1947 and 1949 continued former agreements, and in 1949 both nations were linked in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. A new bilateral agreement for the defense of Greenland was signed in April 1951, and soon thereafter the construction of Thule Air Base began. It was initially designed as a forward base for staging bombers and tankers of the Strategic Air Command, and this mission accounted for the urgency associated with construction efforts.

In December 1950 the Department of Defense directed the Army Corps of Engineers to construct Thule Air Base as soon as diplomatic arrangements were confirmed. The Army engaged a commercial firm, the North Atlantic Constructors, for this task. Hiring was accomplished in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Norfolk, Virginia, was designated the port for shipment of material in surface vessels, and Westover Air Force Base, Massachusetts, was used as a marshalling point for airborne shipments of freight and passengers.

A reconnaissance party arrived at Thule in the middle of February 1951, landing on the gravel strip constructed in 1946. A United States Air Force (USAF) detachment reached Thule on 10 March 1951, and a naval task force arrived with equipment, personnel, and supplies on 9 July. More than 4,400 passengers were airlifted to Thule during 1951, and more than 1,000 passengers and about 300,000 tons of cargo arrived on surface vessels. Until adequate barracks were available, the bulk of the construction force was housed aboard ships furnished by the Military Air Transport Service (MATS). During the winter of 1951-52 the construction force was reduced to the minimum number of men required to perform inside work and maintain the construction camp, but the workmen returned in the spring of 1952, and again in the spring of 1953, to finish the initial effort.

By October 1953 the vast construction program was substantially completed, and most of the buildings on the base had been accepted by the base commander. The runway, 10,000 feet long and 200 feet wide, was capable of supporting heavy aircraft, and the field was equipped with navigational aids. There were seven large hangars plus several smaller ones for fighter aircraft on alert. Near the center of the base there were 125 barracks, 6 mess halls, a gymnasium, service club, hobby shop, library, base exchange, post office, theater, chapel, and hospital. There were also 63 warehouses, a laundry, a bakery, and plants for generating heat and power.

Water was obtained from an adjacent lake, and an auxiliary supply, used principally by the base laundry, was obtained by distilling sea water. There was a 1,000 foot dock, constructed from barges which had been towed from the Gulf of Mexico, placed on caissons, and stabilized alongside a rock-filled causeway. Eighty-nine miles of road interlaced the base and ran to off-base installations. Hosted tank trucks supplied water and removed wastes until 1960, when heated and insulated pipe lines, built above the ground, were completed.

The base was and is a forward staging area for striking USSR/Russia. The 1962 telephone directory (http://www.bwcinet.com/cgi-bin/bmewsphones.cgi) lists a Kennedy and a Fred Lee, but no Hoppers. RCA corp also had a support staff there.

http://www.thuleforum.com/pic/jayne.jpg
Jayne Mansfield at the Thule Air Base for the 1961 USO Christmas show with Bob Hope, Connie Stevens, Jerry Colona and others

David Guyatt
10-28-2009, 10:05 AM
I hope this is not too off topic, but here goes:

I cannot help but conclude that the location chosen for the US Greenland AF base, "Thule" was entirely based on the Nazi occult organization "Thule Gesselschaft"? As many here know, the Nazis had a particular interest in northern hemisphere ultra cold zones because that was where their mythology said the lost land of the Aryan race derived from. There are also very strong connections here to "Agarttha" or "Shambala" - the subterranean city at the centre of the world where the mysterious Vril power originates from.

Thule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Society)

Agarttha/Shambala. (http://www.foundationwebsite.org/OnBulwerLytton.htm#_Toc92944746)

Journeys to the centre of the Earth (or the "Underworld"), when used by occult orders are never to be taken literally, but rather point to a deep psychological process.

In other words "Black Sun" - Schwarze Sunne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sun_(occult_symbol)) "SS" matters.

It is axiomatic in occult circles that all secrets are hidden in plain sight.

Helen Reyes
10-28-2009, 03:56 PM
Possibly the name was a consideration for Operation Blue Jay, but Pituffik or Qaanaaq was named Thule only as late as 1910 when Knud Rasmussen went through and set up a tradiing post there. It's allegedly called Thule because of the Thule Inuit culture originally inhabiting the area, people who did not have kayaks until it was reintorduced by Southwest Greenland Inuit. There are stories that on first contact the Thule Eskimo tried to ask explorers what planet they came from, they having assumed they were alone on Earth. Comer's Midden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comer's_Midden) in the area shows inhabitation from the 14th century to present, minus the 17th and 18th centuries.

http://knr.gl/typo3temp/pics/098563c2a1.jpg
some Thule culture ruins from the 1400s in Northeast Greenland

Of course I'm thinking along the same lines as David, that there's something to the coincidences, maybe even including Jayne Mansfield's USO tour. Greenland and Thule are a conjunction of different industrial and occult interests, Thule AFB was the launching pad for numerous secret experiments in the Arctic, did logistics for an RAF operation on the central icecap called Northice Station (according to wikipedia) and is generally very strange in being probably the largest city in Greenland but completely closed. William Cooper mentions Greenland as a source for the transmissions he decrypted or reencrypted in Behold a Pale Horse and there is UFO lore about a buried news story from the mid-70s on the discovery of a strangely warm cave with something in it on the east coast.

According to the Thule Base newsletter Thule Times, British BAe Systems took over the BMEWS in 2006. Operation Urban Shield in Alameda County, California right now has BAe as honored guest, despite the bribery scandal they're mired in back home. There seems to be a UKUS angle to BAe's involvement at Thule and in Oakland at Lawrence Livermore and elsewhere.

Thule is supposedly exactly midway between New York (or DC?) and Moscow and must've looked like a good place to put over-the-horizon radar when it was built. All of the other DEW line stations appear to be south, however.

And this is rather strange:

http://unsolvedmysteries.com/usm274165.html?t=Hauntings


Singing star "Mama" Cass Elliot, a celebrity of the 1960's, was not associated with the occult. Not long after moving into the stately mansion [owned and supposedly haunted by Jayne Mansfield], she went to London to tape some commercials, leaving her husband behind to oversee the redecorating of the house. Although she was thousands of miles away, she wasn't far enough to escape the wrath that apparently was emanating from it. During her stay in London, she choked to death on a ham sandwich. Needless to say, her husband vacated the premises.


It wasn't just Old Norse or Nazis who believed there was a sacred land at the extreme northern point of the Earth, it also comes up in Mandaean traditions in the Middle East, who held the North superior and believed there was a white mountain at the North Pole. Thule as semi-mythical is also a land where all sorts of dreams and anomolies can be banished, or put on cryogenic supsension for reanimation at a later time.



By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named NIGHT,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule-
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of SPACE-- out of TIME.

--Dream-land (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dream-Land), Edgar Allan Poe

David Healy
10-28-2009, 07:40 PM
...
There seems to be a UKUS angle to BAe's involvement at Thule and in Oakland at Lawrence Livermore and elsewhere.
...


little correction...

Lawrence Livermore is located in Livermore, California, about 40 miles southeast of Oakland (not in Oakland or Bezerkley).

Jan Klimkowski
10-28-2009, 07:55 PM
David and Helen - as you know, "Thule" is also tied up with the Nazi "Hollow Earth" theory, inherited from Theosophy and leading to an SS (Schwarze Sonne) Vril.

Here's a not entirely accurate overview:


In his book Black Sun, Prof. Goodrick-Clarke refers to the research of the German author Peter Bahn PhD, which has revealed a plausible origin of the Vril Society myth. Bahn writes in his 1996 essay, Das Geheimnis der Vril-Energie, of his discovery of an obscure esoteric group calling itself the "Reichsarbeitsgemeinshaft", which revealed itself in a rare 1930 publication Vril. Die Kosmische Urkraft written by a member of this Berlin based group, under the pseudonym "Johannes Tauffer". Published by the influential astrological publisher, Wilhelm Becker (whom Bahn believes was "Tauffer"), the 60 page pamphlet says little of the group other than that it was founded in 1925 to study the uses of Vril energy, and other speculative free energy devices, in what it called "psycho-physical technology". It also talks of the reform and continuation of German Rosicrucianism for the 20th century. Later in the same year a similar pamphlet, Weltdynamismus, was published by the same group, by a different author under a new publisher, Otto Wilhelm Barth, though both pamphlets referred to each other. The terms used in both the pamphlets were identical to the terminology of the Pansophia Lodge, a Futurist influenced German occult order which had uniquely called for the fusion of Occultism and Alternative Science, coining such terms as "psycho-physical". This would at least indicate a small group with a Pansophist ideology, however esoteric writer Theo Paijmans, in his book on John Keely, Free Energy Pioneer, suggests that given that the Pansophia Lodge also broke up in 1925 following a schism, with the majority of its members dividing between the O.T.O and the rival Fraternitas Saturni, the Reichsarbeitsgemeinshaft was most likely a small offshoot from this schism. Goodrick-Clarke explored alleged links between this group and various Neo-Templar Orders and compares it favourably with Willy Ley's "Society for Truth".

[edit] The Conspiracy Theory - Claims in detail
According to these authors, the Vril Society was founded as "The All German Society for Metaphysics" in 1921 to explore the origins of the Aryan race, to seek contact with the "hidden masters" of Ultima Thule, and to practice meditation and other techniques intended to strengthen individual mastery of the divine Vril force itself. It was formed by a group of female psychic mediums led by the Thule Gesellschaft medium Maria Orsitsch (Orsic) of Zagreb, who claimed to have received communication from Aryan aliens living on Alpha Tauri, in the Aldebaran system. Allegedly, these aliens had visited Earth and settled in Sumeria, and the word Vril was allegedly formed from the ancient Sumerian word Vri-Il, "like god" (In fact, Vri-Il means nothing in Sumerian, and could not even be a Sumerian word, as Sumerian had no /v/ phoneme, nor does Sumerian allow consonant clusters at the beginning of words. While the Akkadian word for "deity" is indeed ilum, the Sumerian word is dingir.). A second medium was known only as Sigrun, a name etymologically related to Sigrune, a Valkyrie and one of Wotan's nine daughters in Norse legend. Other sources[who?] state that the Vril Society was founded by an ill-defined group of Rosicrucians in Berlin before the end of the 19th century, while still others[who?] state that it was founded by Karl Haushofer in Berlin in 1918. Some sources state that the Vril Society was also known as the Luminous Lodge, or the Lodge of Light,[20] though others claim that it was originally called the Brothers of the Light.[21]

The Society allegedly not only taught concentration exercises designed to awaken the forces of Vril, their main goal was to achieve Raumflug (Spaceflight) to reach Aldebaran. To achieve this, the Vril Society joined the Thule Gesellschaft and the alleged DHvSS (Die Herren des schwarzen Steins, The Masters of the Black Stone) to fund an ambitious program involving an inter-dimensional flight machine based on psychic revelations from the Aldebaran aliens.

Members of the Vril Society are said to have included Adolf Hitler, Alfred Rosenberg, Heinrich Himmler, Hermann Göring, and Hitler's personal physician, Dr. Theodor Morell. These were original members of the Thule Society which supposedly joined Vril in 1919. The NSDAP (National Sozialistische Deutsche ArbeiterPartei) was created by Thule in 1920, one year later. Dr. Krohn, who helped to create the Nazi flag, was also a Thulist.

With Hitler in power in 1933, both Thule and Vril Gesellschafts allegedly received official state backing for continued disc development programs aimed at both spaceflight and possibly a war machine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vril

Helen Reyes
10-28-2009, 08:27 PM
...
There seems to be a UKUS angle to BAe's involvement at Thule and in Oakland at Lawrence Livermore and elsewhere.
...


little correction...

Lawrence Livermore is located in Livermore, California, about 40 miles southeast of Oakland (not in Oakland or Bezerkley).

Yes, but still in Alameda County from what I can tell, and def part of the current joint op with foreign troops.

Saying BAe is part of UKUS sounds silly, but given the history of spying the US did on Britain and the aviation technology they lifted for US companies, I can't see any other way around it being part and parcel of the UKUS special relationship. I guess that's pretty obvious to everyone already.

Lawrence Berkeley Labs has that cool Cyclotron or Bevatron or whatever they call it.

Vril societies popped up in Britain too, and their balls were attended by high nobility in silly outfits. Vril and electricity and auras and radiation get conflated as some kind of mystic white mercury-type essence in the early 20th century, H. G Well's revelation of radium and all the rest. There is still a survival of this Vril mania in Britain, a soup brand I believe called Bovril. The etymology of Vril proper is probably a Tuetonic/Indo-European etymology current in the 19th century concerning virile, virus, virtus, virtue etc. These are traced back to an old word for man, vyras in Lithuanian=were in werewolf. It's probably not even an Indo-European word, it stretches back into the Nostratic superfamily, you see it all across Asia as gir, ghir, yir etc. I believe it still occurs in a number of ethnonyms of nations captive in the Russian and Chinese orbits, Uighur, Yukagir ... but that's spur-of-the-moment speculation.

Keith Millea
10-28-2009, 10:04 PM
Lawrence Berkeley Labs has that cool Cyclotron or Bevatron or whatever they call it.



They also have a nice new bio-weapons defense lab.

Jan Klimkowski
10-28-2009, 10:06 PM
My emphasis:



Vril societies popped up in Britain too, and their balls were attended by high nobility in silly outfits. Vril and electricity and auras and radiation get conflated as some kind of mystic white mercury-type essence in the early 20th century, H. G Well's revelation of radium and all the rest. There is still a survival of this Vril mania in Britain, a soup brand I believe called Bovril. The etymology of Vril proper is probably a Tuetonic/Indo-European etymology current in the 19th century concerning virile, virus, virtus, virtue etc. These are traced back to an old word for man, vyras in Lithuanian=were in werewolf. It's probably not even an Indo-European word, it stretches back into the Nostratic superfamily, you see it all across Asia as gir, ghir, yir etc. I believe it still occurs in a number of ethnonyms of nations captive in the Russian and Chinese orbits, Uighur, Yukagir ... but that's spur-of-the-moment speculation.

Is that true?!?!?!

:playingball:

Bovril on toast, on a cold winter day, will never ever taste the same....

Jan Klimkowski
10-28-2009, 10:12 PM
Bejeezus, Helen, it seems that you're correct.


Bovril is the trademarked name of a thick, salty meat extract, developed in the 1870s by John Lawson Johnston and sold in a distinctive, bulbous jar. It is made in Burton upon Trent, Staffordshire and distributed by Unilever UK.

Bovril can be made into a drink by diluting with hot water, or (less commonly) milk[1]. It can also be used as a flavouring for soups, stews or porridge, or spread on bread, especially toast, rather like Marmite.

The first part of the product's name comes from Latin bos (genitive bovis) meaning "ox" or "cow". Johnston took the -vril suffix from Bulwer-Lytton's then-popular 1870 "lost race" novel The Coming Race, whose plot revolves around a powerful energy fluid named "Vril".[2][3]

In the year 1870, in the war against the Prussians, Napoleon III found that his armies could not 'march on empty stomachs'. He therefore ordered one million cans of beef to feed his starving troops. The task of providing all this beef went to a Scotsman named John Lawson Johnston. Unfortunately, Britain did not have a large enough quantity of beef to meet the French people's and Napoleon III's demand, so Johnston created a product known as 'Johnston's Fluid Beef' -- later called Bovril.[4]

By the year 1888, in excess of 3000 British public houses, grocers and chemists were beginning to sell Bovril. In 1889, the Bovril Company was formed. 1966 saw the beginnings of Bovril's instant beef stock, followed by the 'King Beef' range of instant flavours for stews, casseroles and gravy in 1971.

During the Siege of Ladysmith in the Second Boer War a Bovril-like paste was produced from horse meat. Named Chevril by replacing the Bov (ox) with Chev (horse) in the Bovril name, it was produced by boiling down the horse meat to a jelly paste and serving it like beef tea.[5][6] Bovril continued to function as a "war food" in World War I,[7] and was frequently mentioned in the 1930 account "Not So Quiet... Stepdaughters of War" by Helen Zenna Smith (Evadne Price). As a drink mixing the beef-flavouring with hot water, it helped sustain ambulance drivers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovril

Helen Reyes
10-29-2009, 07:52 PM
Bejeezus, Helen, it seems that you're correct.



So it's like that marmite stuff? I despised that the one time I tried it.

BBC radio somenumberorother did a long show on the history of vril and Bulwer-Lytton not too long ago. I'll dig it up in my radio file collection if anyone wants it. Not sure I still have it, but will look.

Jan, over-the-horizon radar and mind control: am I on to anything with Thule and Mansfield? It feels rather absurd and silly.

Jan Klimkowski
10-29-2009, 09:55 PM
Bejeezus, Helen, it seems that you're correct.



So it's like that marmite stuff? I despised that the one time I tried it.

Originally, Bovril was beef extract and Marmite yeast extract. Both are thick brown/black goos, which can be diluted into drinks with hot water or spread on toast.

"It's like marmite, you either love it or hate it" is a very common British phrase which every Brit understands.

But the origins of the word Bovril in Bulwer-Lytton's Vril fantasies is David Lynch weird. Scratch the mundane surface of a familiar object and fall straight through a trapdoor....


Jan, over-the-horizon radar and mind control: am I on to anything with Thule and Mansfield? It feels rather absurd and silly.

It is interesting. But Jayne Mansfield is a perfectly understandable choice for the military to send to a farflung base to "encourage" our boys to work even harder. A lot more risque than Vera Lynn, admittedly. More Ann Margret perhaps. But zero chance of her becoming Hanoi Jane....

One of the central challenges of the mind control field is what could perhaps be called The Monarch Problem, with a blond bombshell sex slave, controlled like a marionette, at its heart.

My own view is that much of Monarch is deliberate disinformation. It is the equivalent of the flying saucer psyop: a cover story designed to tap into the popular mind, like a National Enquirer meme, with its suggestions of male svengaliesque control of glamorous women who become putty in the hands of their controller.

The endless list of famous personages named in the Monarch plot ensures that the core subject - MK-ULTRA and its successor programmes - cannot be touched by a serious investigative journalist, because it is near impossible that evidence could be gathered to establish the guilt or innocence of most, let alone all, of them. In fact, the sheer number of famous names means that the logical response is, um, that's just implausible.

Against that, I believe it is highly likely that beautiful women were the victims of MK-ULTRA technology. The forensic detail of how the "Candy Jones" story became public knowledge suggests that Jessica Arline Wilcox may well have been a Manchurian Candidate.

I interviewed many of the women who worked with a courageous lawyer, Valerie Wolf. Their descriptions of the psyche of known MK-ULTRA "doctors", such as Cameron, Heath, Orne and West suggests that the control of the other may have been both a national security objective and a personal obsession for these egomaniacs.

With Jayne Mansfield, I don't know enough about her background to make any kind of judgement. Her trip to Thule may have been no more than an early incarnation of the "Playboy bunnies" scene in the original Apocalypse Now.

Of course, there's a darker version in Apocalypse Now Redux....

David Guyatt
10-29-2009, 10:08 PM
Jan, I heartily agree that Monarch was a designer distraction/deflection.

Helen Reyes
10-29-2009, 10:19 PM
Thank you, Jan. That was a very informative answer to my question, actually.

I associate the Monarch-12 Perfect Mind Slave thing with Fritz Springmeier, I must've read it from him or around the same time as I was reading the Walt Disney MK stuff he wrote. It struck me as bullshit. Then there's that Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus! trilogy scene with a sex slave, total male fantasy stuff. But everyone would expect mind control to be used for exactly that, and they must exist, so yes, it is some kind of cover story or distraction I guess.

Strange to say, but I'm actually interested in trying to figure out how all this stuff fits in with the thread title. I don't know anything about Mansfield but the rumor is she was doing both RFK and JFK. I know she wasn't involved sexually with Anton LaVey, that's just a tall tale. I believe he cursed her, not the Brody character that was abusing her, because she blew him off somehow, and he was surprised when the curse manifested.

Then there's "Mama" Cass again, buying Mansfield's all-pink house, haunted by Mansfield, frequented by Church of Satan people.

Helen Reyes
10-31-2009, 03:22 PM
Of course, the explanation for the timing could be more prosaic, and the level of mind control less sophisticated. For example, what if Roman Polanski were working on a cinematization of a novel that exposes Tony Blair as a CIA asset or something nasty like that, right when Blair is campaigning to be president of a federalized European Union? But then that leaves the question open of why Switzelrand would be supporting Blair's candidacy. No reasonable or right-thinking person could believe Switzerland isn't 100% neutral on the EU, NATO and global politics...

Jan Klimkowski
10-31-2009, 06:41 PM
Helen thanks - I agree that Polanski's directing of a movie version of Robert Harris' novel is potentially relevant to the timing here. Of course, if the script of "The Ghost" is faithful to the plot of the book, then it has a twist revealing another American intelligence asset close to the heart of power......

When I read it, I didn't regard Robert Harris' novel as particularly threatening to the political class, although I'm sure that talk of indicting western leaders for war crimes is in and of itself unwelcome for the likes of Blair and Bush.

Crucially, though, Polanski, who wrote the script with Harris, has completed principal filming. In other words, the material is largely shot, so the most logistically complex stage of making a movie is finished. The rushes are now awaiting the crafting and transformation that always takes place in the edit suite - primarily between editor and director (a 2-person, rather than hundred-plus person, process).

Polanski would of course regard his presence in the editing suite as essential. However, depending on the terms of his imprisonment, if he was able to negotiate access to the internet and a fast computer, he could potentially work with his editor from his prison cell.

If the aim of the arrest was to prevent Polanski making a version of "The Ghost", then They've left it a bit late.

However, if the final film when released is watered down, going easy on the "Blair" figure, then I would expect to see allegations that Polanski has been lent on to tone the movie down. Such claims can be examined as and when the film hits the silver screen....


Roman Polanski thriller The Ghost in jeopardy after director's arrest

One of next year’s most eagerly anticipated films, a star-studded thriller featuring a thinly disguised version of Tony Blair, is in jeopardy because of the arrest of Roman Polanski.

The Oscar-winning director had recently finished filming The Ghost, his adaptation of the bestselling novel of the same name starring Pierce Brosnan. But the film is without a musical score and needs sound mixing and extra dialogue before a distributor can be found. With Polanski, who is in Switzerland, awaiting extradition proceedings to the US for having sex with a 13-year-old girl, there are fears that the negative publicity will ruin the film’s chances at the box office.

Polanski co-wrote the script with the book’s author Robert Harris.

Sources on the production of The Ghost, about a British prime minister facing indictment for war crimes, played by Brosnan, told The Times that they were determined to complete the final steps of the production process.

Timothy Burrill, a co-producer, said: “The film will continue. I honestly don’t want to say any more but we’re very close to finishing it now.” However, the final post-production steps are not a formality and Polanski is known for wanting to control every aspect of his films.

Polanski was detained at Zurich airport on Saturday as he arrived to collect a lifetime achievement award at the city’s film festival. According to Variety, the film industry magazine, The Ghost was scheduled for release in February. That date will almost certainly be missed as Polanski waits in custody.

“I am sure that Roman would have a very good idea of how this film would end up and he might be able to edit remotely via his editor,” said Ali Jaafar, international editor of Variety. “It will probably delay the process but it should not derail it entirely.”

The Ghost follows the story of a ghost writer, played by Ewan McGregor, whose research into the former British leader, thought to be modelled on Mr Blair, for his memoirs leads to dangerous revelations. Kim Cattrall and Olivia Williams also star.

Even if The Ghost is finished there are concerns that it could be Polanski’s last work if he is extradited. “If he ends up staying in jail then obviously it is going to have a huge impact on the film because it could be his last ever movie,” Jaafar said.

“And if he is able to resolve the film then it will be the first film since he has been released from jail, so either way it will be in the background.”

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/article6856134.ece

Keith Millea
10-31-2009, 07:02 PM
I wonder what else Gore Vidal has to say about the Polanski circle?

http://airamerica.com/entertainment/10-28-2009/gore-vidal-calls-polanski-victim-hooker/

Gore Vidal: Polanski's Detractors Are Racist And His Victim Is "A Hooker"
Wednesday October 28, 2009 5:13 pm

http://static.airamerica.com/imagecache/uploads/vidal_display.jpg Photo Credit: asterix611 on Flickr

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Author Gore Vidal weighed in on the Roman Polanski rape case today, beating out even the biggest Polanski cheerleaders for the most apologist, most misogynist and most despicable take on the case to date.

So what's your take on Polanski, this many years later?

I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?

I’ve certainly never heard that take on the story before.

First, I was in the middle of all that. Back then, we all were. Everybody knew everybody else. There was a totally different story at the time that doesn’t resemble anything that we’re now being told.

What do you mean?

The media can’t get anything straight. Plus, there’s usually an anti-Semitic and anti-fag thing going on with the press – lots of crazy things. The idea that this girl was in her communion dress, a little angel all in white, being raped by this awful Jew, Polacko – that’s what people were calling him – well, the story is totally different now from what it was then..Indeed. Today, the "story" that Polanski's been peddling for the last 30 years with some success is that the 13-year-old he plied with liquor and drugs and then forcibly raped orally, vaginally and anally was being "pushed" on him by her stage-mother, whose permission for a photo shoot Polanski had to procure with some persuasion. He is also keen to claim that he obtained consent from the drugged 13-year-old girl who testified that she repeatedly told Polanski "No!"--testimony Polanski never opposed. Polanski is also keen to portray himself as the victim of a corrupt legal system as a way of explaining his unwillingness to return to America to face sentencing on the lone charge of statutory rape the prosecutors allowed him to plead to at his victim's request.
Or, if you're Gore Vidal, the victim's a whore, Polanski is gay and those of us who think a rapist should face prosecution are just anti-Semites. Guess he should have stuck to fiction-writing, as non-fiction doesn't seem to be his speed.

Jan Klimkowski
10-31-2009, 08:09 PM
Gore Vidal has uttered very many insightful and important words over the decades. His comments above are not worthy.

A 13-year-old cannot consent to being drugged and then raped, vaginally and anally. Her mother cannot consent on her behalf.

I'm tempted to put Vidal's comments down to the onset of senility.

However, a less benign interpretation is that Vidal speaks as an aristocratic insider. Whilst he has spent most of his life exposing the sins both of his class and of the powerful, his utterances here seem to share Their complete disdain for the humanity and pain of ordinary people.

Paul Rigby
10-31-2009, 10:00 PM
Gore Vidal has uttered very many insightful and important words over the decades. His comments above are not worthy.

A 13-year-old cannot consent to being drugged and then raped, vaginally and anally. Her mother cannot consent on her behalf.

I'm tempted to put Vidal's comments down to the onset of senility.

However, a less benign interpretation is that Vidal speaks as an aristocratic insider. Whilst he has spent most of his life exposing the sins both of his class and of the powerful, his utterances here seem to share Their complete disdain for the humanity and pain of ordinary people.

Vidal: A nasty piece of work whose much exaggerated "dissidence" has long boasted an uncommon ability to serve the interests of the US establishment:


The Washington Daily News, 7 March 1963, p.27

Bobby Kennedy in ‘68

By Richard Starnes

I am obliged to Gore Vidal, a playwright of considerable talent, a politician of some passing competence, and a philosopher of no account at all, for brushing aside the shadows that obscure the political future and, of course, by extension the future of us all.

Writing in this month’s Esquire, Mr. Vidal quickly disposes of 1964. President Kennedy is home free in ’64 and thus the election next year isn’t worth one of Dr. Gallup’s worn-out clip boards.

But 1968 – now there is a magazine-length essay that is another shade of green. What the ordained soothsayer can descry in that year can scarce bear repeating in the presence of nursing mums, particularly nursing mums.

Mr. Vidal (himself a liberal, altho not lactescent at this time) finds that the Democratic nominee will be Bobby Kennedy. He finds further that the candidacy of Bobby seems doomed to succeed. He isn’t happy about the prospect, altho he appears to believe Mr. Kennedy I (the first) is/was/will be counted a good President. I am inclined to agree with him on that score, just as I tend to share his view that Bobby would be a disaster in the job.

What troubles me, however, is Mr. Vidal’s certitude. He concedes that it is always possible a winter-book candidate might have the poor judgment to die between now and 1968, a misfortune that would probably disqualify anyone. He also suggests the possibility there might be no election in 1968 if, say, all of us let Mr. Kennedy – no, no, not THAT one, THIS one – down and lost a war. But otherwise, if I read Mr. Vidal correctly, Bobby is all but fated to succeed his big brother in the White House.

Mr. Vidal writes, as all good essayists write, in a forceful, not to say headlong, style that admits to no uneasy doubts in the reader’s mind. The trick is to write something like, “in six years Hubert Humphrey will be 57” – a sentence which surely proves the author a man of integrity and some ability to foresee the future – and then to follow it with some assumptions too broad for leaping except by the most sure-footed.

The biggest flaw in Mr. Vidal’s argument is his assumption that John Kennedy will exercise his vast power to install Bobby as his successor.

It is at least debatable. Mr. Vidal cites frailties in Bobby Kennedy that might well disqualify him for the job he seeks (come to think of it, there’s another broad jump; Vidal just THINKS Bobby wants to be top banana).

It is only reasonable to assume that John knows a lot more about Bobby than even Gore Vidal knows. Is he going to risk the place in history he will by then have earned (don’t worry, if we’re still alive, he’ll have earned it) by handing the job on to his pushy kid brother?

If he does, he’ll qualify himself in the history books as a man more interested in creating a family dynasty than in keeping alive our frail experiment in self-government. And there is nothing in his record to date that suggests he is such a person.

David Guyatt
11-01-2009, 08:48 AM
.

David Guyatt
11-02-2009, 09:51 PM
[edit] The Conspiracy Theory - Claims in detail
According to these authors, the Vril Society was founded as "The All German Society for Metaphysics" in 1921 to explore the origins of the Aryan race, to seek contact with the "hidden masters" of Ultima Thule, and to practice meditation and other techniques intended to strengthen individual mastery of the divine Vril force itself. It was formed by a group of female psychic mediums led by the Thule Gesellschaft medium Maria Orsitsch (Orsic) of Zagreb, who claimed to have received communication from Aryan aliens living on Alpha Tauri, in the Aldebaran system. Allegedly, these aliens had visited Earth and settled in Sumeria, and the word Vril was allegedly formed from the ancient Sumerian word Vri-Il, "like god" (In fact, Vri-Il means nothing in Sumerian, and could not even be a Sumerian word, as Sumerian had no /v/ phoneme, nor does Sumerian allow consonant clusters at the beginning of words. While the Akkadian word for "deity" is indeed ilum, the Sumerian word is dingir.). A second medium was known only as Sigrun, a name etymologically related to Sigrune, a Valkyrie and one of Wotan's nine daughters in Norse legend. Other sources[who?] state that the Vril Society was founded by an ill-defined group of Rosicrucians in Berlin before the end of the 19th century, while still others[who?] state that it was founded by Karl Haushofer in Berlin in 1918. Some sources state that the Vril Society was also known as the Luminous Lodge, or the Lodge of Light,[20] though others claim that it was originally called the Brothers of the Light.[21]

The Society allegedly not only taught concentration exercises designed to awaken the forces of Vril, their main goal was to achieve Raumflug (Spaceflight) to reach Aldebaran. To achieve this, the Vril Society joined the Thule Gesellschaft and the alleged DHvSS (Die Herren des schwarzen Steins, The Masters of the Black Stone) to fund an ambitious program involving an inter-dimensional flight machine based on psychic revelations from the Aldebaran aliens.



(my bolding)

I see a real conflict in the mind of the writer of this Wiki piece. Concentration exercises (i.e., focused meditation) to awaken Vril in order to achieve space-flight to reach Aldebaran is a little barmy (as you indicated Jan).

A more accurate description I think would be "inner travel to reach Aldebaran" which is far more consisten with, for example, the "Die Herren des Schwarzen Steins", "Masters of the Black Stone" - the latter being a description of the Alchemical process of nigredo - the blackening. It is not customary to "master" the Black Stone (much later in the alchemical process to become the "Stone of the Wise" or the "Lapis Philosophorum") but to endure it. Mastery to my mind suggests something altogether more purposefully sinister - which of course fits the Himmlerian vision far more accurately.

The following article may be of interest. Although I have some reservations about some of the more sweeping claims made by the author (particularly the psycho-physical raising of Kundalini being the object of the Grail mysteries -- in the sense it is portrayed anyway) the general drift non-the-less seems to fit the SS Schwarze Sonne pattern rather well.

Note the apparent dimensional shift in reality caused by the Pineal substance DMT.

Here be the "Grey" Crowleyian Aliens.

Of the inner "Lam" kind.

http://www.williamhenry.net/spear.html

Charles Drago
11-02-2009, 10:26 PM
The conflations of literal and spiritual journeys, substances, and objects are both functions of untrained, limited minds and intentional acts of misdirection in service to the maintenance and expansion of power -- material and otherwise.

David Guyatt
11-02-2009, 10:47 PM
I've tried a little snopping around to find out more on the "Masters of the Black Stone" and it seems to be a fictional construct masquerading as a fact that probably originated HERE (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_vril04.htm), that in turn derives from a French website.

However, the quoted name does have a certain resonance and the apparent French origin may be a key. There is French a game site that features a game entitled: "Maître de guerre Rochenoire" or Battle Master of the Black Rock (http://fr.wowhead.com/?npc=7029).

Not-with-standing this "Roche Noire" (and "Roche Blanc") featured quite prominently in the Rennes le Chateau puzzle - more accurately described as the Priory of Sion fiction (but a fiction with great meaning and purpose I warrant) --- which includes the even more cloaked alegorical mystery of Le Serpent Rouge (and not too dissimilar, I imagine, to the warring Welsh Red Dragon and White Dragon, or the colours of battling Tudor roses or the principal colours highlighted in the story of the Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz.

In other words the Rubedo or reddening and the Albedo or whitening of the Alchemical process.

It therefore strikes me that the statement that the Thule Gesellschaft derived from the Rosicrucian order is probably correct and, if that is the case, the title "Masters of the Black Stone" is very likely an initiated grade of the Rosicrucians.

David Guyatt
11-02-2009, 11:10 PM
The conflations of literal and spiritual journeys, substances, and objects are both functions of untrained, limited minds and intentional acts of misdirection in service to the maintenance and expansion of power -- material and otherwise.

Agreed Charlie.

At least up to a significant deep point anyway.

The so called Mysteries absolutely need to be mysterious and I imagine that stating all the secrets overtly and openly steals the thunder and plunders the Soul of future Grail knights - and causes boredom, belligerence and bedlam amongst all the in-training squires, who would not then wish to bother to become knights in their own right.

And where would Arthur and Camelot be then?

Having said that of course, all the great secrets are writ large and hid in plain sight anyway - but our eyes do not behold what the mind is, as yet, unable to fathom.

Imo anyway.

Charles Drago
11-03-2009, 03:19 AM
Having said that of course, all the great secrets are writ large and hid in plain sight anyway - but our eyes do not behold what the mind is, as yet, unable to fathom.

Eyes wide shut indeed.

David Guyatt
11-03-2009, 09:10 AM
:adore:

Helen Reyes
11-03-2009, 12:14 PM
FWIW,

Rene Guenon in Le Roi du Monde conflates the Grail and Satan's third eye. He says tradition has it that the bowl used at the Last Supper was carved from a black meteor reputed to have fallen from Satan's third eye, and associates it with the Kaaba (cube) in Mecca.

(the English translation of this book, long in the public domain, was published in the UK in 1974, then disappeared for a few decades to be republished by an American enterprise that changed the title from Lord of the World to King of the World and slapped a copyright on it.)

Coincidentally, one of the American explorers of Perry Land in Greenland made it a point to steal a meteor the Inuit had possessed for centuries, which is now in some museum in New York.

Also, the Tunguska (Tungus) event was said by some witnesses to have begun as a black sphere moving across the sky. Coincidentally and concurrently Nikola Tesla claimed to have discovered the secret of manufacturing ball lightning, and told a confidant that certain species were highly explosive/implosive, and could be used as a new kind of weapon.

Further, the Simon Necronomicon contains a section about an acolyte stumbling upon an ancient rite in which a large black stone levitates. The Simon edition is a continuation of the fictional sources Lovecraft cites, a project to make the possibility of the Necronomicon's existence more plausible to keep the joke going, drawing on Crowley, Sumerian, Akkadian/Babylonian, Yezidi and Mandaean sources. One source Lovecraft cites among the fictional works and scholars is not fictional: Wormius. Wormius is the Latin name of Wormskiold or Wormskold, a Norwegian (or Danish?) scholar who wrote about the lost Norse colonies in Greenland, among other things. As far as I know the only Lovecraft story to mention Greenland is The Call of Cthulhu, and then only in passing, something about degenerate Satanic angekut mesmerizing a strange band of Eskimo living high up on the icecap.

The Priory of Sion and related hoaxes were perpetrated from what I understand by depositing spurious folios in the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, also a favorite of Lovecraft.

If you're interested in Vril and Nazi occultism, the following sites have some interesting primary sources:

http://nsl-archiv.com/Buecher/
http://www.nazi.org.uk/political%20pdfs/

Helen Reyes
11-03-2009, 08:13 PM
Oh, here (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Call_of_Cthulhu) it is:


Professor Webb had been engaged, forty-eight years before, in a tour of Greenland and Iceland in search of some Runic inscriptions which he failed to unearth; and whilst high up on the West Greenland coast had encountered a singular tribe or cult of degenerate Eskimos whose religion, a curious form of devil-worship, chilled him with its deliberate bloodthirstiness and repulsiveness. It was a faith of which other Eskimos knew little, and which they mentioned only with shudders, saying that it had come down from horribly ancient aeons before ever the world was made. Besides nameless rites and human sacrifices there were certain queer hereditary rituals addressed to a supreme elder devil or tornasuk; and of this Professor Webb had taken a careful phonetic copy from an aged angekok or wizard-priest, expressing the sounds in Roman letters as best he knew how. But just now of prime significance was the fetish which this cult had cherished, and around which they danced when the aurora leaped high over the ice cliffs. It was, the professor stated, a very crude bas-relief of stone, comprising a hideous picture and some cryptic writing. And as far as he could tell, it was a rough parallel in all essential features of the bestial thing now lying before the meeting.
These data, received with suspense and astonishment by the assembled members, proved doubly exciting to Inspector Legrasse; and he began at once to ply his informant with questions. Having noted and copied an oral ritual among the swamp cult-worshippers his men had arrested, he besought the professor to remember as best he might the syllables taken down amongst the diabolist Eskimos. There then followed an exhaustive comparison of details, and a moment of really awed silence when both detective and scientist agreed on the virtual identity of the phrase common to two hellish rituals so many worlds of distance apart. What, in substance, both the Eskimo wizards and the Louisiana swamp-priests had chanted to their kindred idols was something very like this—the word-divisions being guessed at from traditional breaks in the phrase as chanted aloud;

"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

Tornasuk is a power Greenlandic shamans called on, neither God nor Devil, and together with his sometimes-consort the Mother of All Sea-Animals made up the entire pantheon for some Inuit there.

Olaus Wormius aka Olaf Wormskold or Wormskiold occurs in H. P. Lovecraft's History of the Necronomicon (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_the_Necronomicon), The Festival (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Festival) and Chapter 5 of The Dunwich Horror (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Dunwich_Horror/Chapter_V). www.sacred-texts.com has a translation he did in Latin and the Texts section at www.archive.org has works on Greenland that cite Wormskold as a reference. www.runeberg.org has books about Arctic explorers (including Robert Peary who stole the Eskimo meteor in what was known as Thule district in Greenland).

http://thulegreenlandsite.com/meteorb.jpg
A nearly 20 ton iron meteorite that fell nearly 10,000 years ago. It was found in 1963 by V.F. Buchwald near Agpalilik. This is a piece of the larger Cape York meteorite found in the same region by Robert Perry in 1894. The larger Cape York piece is in the American Museum of Natural History in New York.
(from http://thulegreenlandsite.com/thule_summer.html)

David Guyatt
11-04-2009, 09:21 AM
FWIW,
The Priory of Sion and related hoaxes were perpetrated from what I understand by depositing spurious folios in the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, also a favorite of Lovecraft.


Agreed Helen. The PoS appears to have been manufactured and one of the principal manufacturers is believed to have been the former No.2 man in the CIA's Paris station, Colonel John Driscoll who was a fiend of Philippe de Cherisey. O'Driscoll later retired in Ireland, bought and renovated Castle Matrix and changed his name to Sean O'Driscoll.

Earlier in his career he was a member of the Shickshinny Knights and close to wandering bishops of the ilk of Forest Barber and racist Robert Gayre of Gayre and Nigg and several others who, it seems, moved lump, sum and barrel to another somewhat curious outfit - this one also indirectly associated with the Vatican SMOM - namely, the somewhat spooky and occult-focused (I am told) Augustan Society.

Having said all that the story of the Pos and the documents deposited in the Biblothechque Nationale contains deeply occult messages of the Rosicrucian/Alchemical kind.

Back to EWS where, during the film the image of a "Rainbow" appears or forms part of the dialogue: Bill is propositioned by two models in an early sene who says "where the Rainbow ends". Then we have "Rainbow Costumes" from which Bill later hires his costume to attend the Satanic ritual at Somerton under the password of Fidelio. Then, of course, we move quickly on to the possible significance of this, namely the Alchemical stage known as the Cauda Pavonis or "Peacocks Tail" which contains all the colours of the Rainbow - and which Jung discusses deeply as a meaningful psychological stage in his Collected Works on Alchemy"


The cauda pavonis announces the end of the work, just as Iris, its synonym, is the messenger of God. The exquisite display of colours in the peacock's fan heralds the imminent synthesis of all qualities and elements, which are united in the rotundity of the philosophical stone...

and then later amplifies:


This plainly alludes to the phoenix, which, like the peacock, plays a considerable role in alchemy as a symbol of renewal and resurrection, and more espectially as a synonym for the lapis.

(rather than race upstairs to gather the necessary citations for Jung I have been lazy and Googled and obtained the foregoing quotes from the following website: http://home.earthlink.net/~hipbone/IDTWeb/Heggaia.htm

And so from Le Serpent Rouge:

"Comme ils sont étranges les manuscrits de cet Ami, grand
voyageur de l'inconnu, ils me sont parvenus séparément, pourtant ils
forment un tout pour lui qui sait que les couleurs de l'arc-en-ciel
donnent l'unité blanche, ou pour l'Artiste qui sous son pinceau, fait
des six teintes de sa palette magique, jaillir le noir."

--

"How strange are the manuscripts of this Friend, great
traveller of the unknown, they appeared to me separately, yet they
form a whole for him who knows that the colours of the rainbow
give a white unity, or for the Artist for whom the black springs
out from under his paintbrush, made from the six colours of his magic palette."

Helen Reyes
11-04-2009, 10:47 AM
It looks as if there was something that was somewhat sincere that called itself the Priory of Sion, but that it was eclipsed by the hoax.

http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/esoteric_history/richardson1.html


The Priory of Sion Hoax
by Robert Richardson

Some say the "Holy Grail" is really the bloodline of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene, guarded by a secret society called the "Priory of Sion." What is the evidence for this idea, and where did it come from?

In recent years, a great deal of information has been published in books like Holy Blood, Holy Grail alleging that the Holy Grail actually refers to a bloodline descended from Jesus. By this account Jesus and Mary Magdalene produced offspring, and their descendants gave rise to the Merovingian dynasty, which ruled France from 476 to 750 A.D. Well intentioned readers and even authors have been deceived by this story and have mistaken it for the revelation of a suppressed history. Unfortunately the only thing that has been suppressed is the truth.


The Grail is not a bloodline. This false story originated in reams of fraudulent documents created by an extreme right-wing French sect. The group responsible for these fictions, calling itself the "Priory of Sion" and claiming an ancient esoteric lineage, has kept its own authentic history carefully hidden. How it constructed its fraud has not been revealed. It is long past time for the light of truth to reveal the "Priory of Sion" and the fictional bloodline it has promoted for what they are really are -- a fraud. The background of this group reveals its actual motives and sources of information.


The trail to the "Priory of Sion" fraud begins in mid-nineteenth-century France. A resurgent interest in the occult led to the creation of many esoteric groups. Members of these groups often belonged to several organizations. Their leaders often broke away to form competing factions. At the same time, constant turmoil in the French government drew France into two increasingly hostile camps jousting for political supremacy. The royalists, composed of the Catholic Church, the far right, and the supporters of the old system of royalty, vied for power with the republicans, composed of Freemasons and other supporters of democratically elected governments. Their struggle affected the lives and views of every Frenchman. From 1877 to the eve of the Second World War, Freemasons dominated French government. Their domination earned them bitter enemies.


In the 1880's, at the height of this political conflict, Joseph Alexandre St. Yves d'Alveydre, "the supreme Hermeticist of his epoch,"(1) proposed a new idea for injecting moral values into governing society. He called it "synarchy" and claimed it was the method used by the Knights Templar to change medieval society. An elect band of initiates would influence groups representing different aspects of society. Those groups would influence their spheres and ultimately the entire social order.


By the turn of the century, the royalist faction came to fear synarchy, whose influence had spread beyond esoteric groups. By the 1920s, Masonic groups with distinctly synarchist policies were a reality in France. In the 1930s, even a leftist group, called the X-Cruise Club, advocated a technocracy with synarchist ideas.(2)


In this era, the French far right formed its own seemingly esoteric groups. But they were actually front organizations, pretending to have Masonic and esoteric affiliations in order to draw support away from the Masons. As anti-semitism spread across Europe in the 1930s, the French far right denounced Masons and Jews in the same breath. When fourteen initiatic orders created a federation called FUDOSI to promote peace and positive ideals, the far right increased its formation of pseudo-Masonic groups.


During the war, Nazi occupation policy was to arrest leaders of esoteric organizations, put them in concentration camps, and seize their groups' records and membership rolls, which were placed in a central depository. In France this depository was called the Centre d'Action Maconnique, and the French occupation government at Vichy actively aided the Gestapo in its persecution of Masonic and esoteric orders. So great was the far right's fear of Masonic influence that an unknown source even issued a document called the "Chauvin Report," alleging Masonic involvement in Vichy. (3) While these events were taking place, the individuals who later formed the "Priory of Sion" were being gathered into two groups. One group, known to have been in existence as early as 1934, was called Alpha Galates. Toward the end of the 1930s Alpha Galates utilized a young man named Pierre Plantard, born March 18, 1920, as its titular head.


In 1937, at the age of only seventeen, Plantard attempted to found an anti-Semitic and anti-Masonic group to engage "purifying and renewing France" and sought official permission to publish a periodical called "The Renewal of France." (4) This theme Would constantly appear in association with Alpha Galates and later with the "Priory of Sion."


By 1939, Plantard headed a Catholic youth group holding retreats in Brittany for teenagers and in 1939 was also noted as addressing a gathering of Catholic youth. Either Plantard was exceptionally precocious or he was carefully coached by older people, including a probable sponsor inside the Church who arranged his engagements. Most likely, he made these connections through ties to the parent organization of Alpha Galates and through his own youthful activities at the Parisian parish of St. Louis d'Antin, where he eventually became its sexton.


Under the collaborationist Vichy regime, the group behind Plantard and Alpha Galates sought influence with the government. On December 16, 1940, Plantard wrote to Marshal Petain, head of the Vichy regime, denouncing a vast Jewish-Masonic plot. But he failed to receive any attention beyond routine entries in police files. In 1941, Plantard applied to found an organization called "French National Renewal" but was denied official permission in September of that year. Finally in 1942, Plantard and his superiors again sought public visibility, now openly using the name Alpha Galates and promoting a publication called Vaincre ("Conquer").


Vaincre, which commenced publication in September 1942, was filled with anti-Semitic, fawningly pro-Vichy articles and sprinkled with shallow, superficial esoterica on Celtic traditions and chivalry. Nonetheless Alpha Galates tried to present this journal as the clearinghouse of a relatively sizable and cohesive body of young people. After six issues it ceased publication. But it earned Plantard some recognition. He was periodically observed by the police. As late as February 1945, the police were still investigating Alpha Galates and its revolving-door membership of 50 or so, and concluded it had no serious purpose. But at least one serious seeker, Robert Amadou, who joined Alpha Galates believing it was a genuine esoteric group, suggests that its focus was political. Later a Freemason and Martinist, after 40 years Amadou refused to discuss Alpha Galates, only saying, "For my part, I have never been involved in political activity, before or since."


In 1947, while a revived FUDOSI met in Paris, Pierre Plantard filed the legal papers necessary to create another organization, called the Latin Academy. Its titular head was his own mother. Its ostensible purpose was "historical research." Its real purpose was to carry on the right-wing program of its predecessor. By the mid-1950s Plantard began promoting himself in Catholic circles as the Merovingian pretender to the throne of France. One place where he engaged in these activities was the Paris church and seminary of St. Sulpice.(7)


In 1956, Plantard and others created a new group named the "Priory of Sion." It had statutes remarkably similar to those of Alpha Galates and published a magazine called Circuit. Disinformation which would eventually become widespread about the Rennes-le-Chateau affair also began to appear, starting in the magazine La Depeche de Midi, in early 1956.(8)


With the French government in turmoil in 1958, Plantard and his group again sought political influence, alleging that they controlled the pro-de Gaulle Committees of Public Safety and utilizing Plantard-written articles in the newspaper Le Monde to imply a secret association between de Gaulle and Plantard.(9) Any connection between de Gaulle and the self-styled "eminences grises" from whom the great of this world seek counsel(10) is unknown to de Gaulles associates and biographers. But by 1959, new issues of Circuit were trumpeting this link.


Circuit shifted to a steady diet of superficial Masonic and esoteric subjects, flirting with mythology, astrology, and chivalry; restructuring French government; the unique (but unspecified) greatness of Pierre Plantard; and, of course, French National Renewal. They also pointedly and proudly promoted Vaincre's anti-Semitic, anti-Masonic back issues. (11)


The book Treasures of the World by Robert Charroux proved a popular success in France in 1962. Charroux's mixture of mysticism, historical mysteries, and lost treasures, and public interest in his recounting of the mystery of Gisors, allowed the "Priory" to launch itself into public view. Claiming to be an inside source, the "Priory" alleged that the lost underground chapel of St. Anne in Gisors, Normandy, contained either secret "Priory" records" or the lost treasure of the Knights Templars. None of these fictions materialized. But they gave the "Priory" the visibility to successfully promote itself and its false history of France, descendants of Jesus, and esoteric orders in books and articles.


The real Priory of Sion was an authentic Catholic monastic order. A priory is a religious house or order. Sion or Zion is the ancient name for Jerusalem, where the order was headquartered at the monastery of Our Lady of Mt. Zion. It transferred its headquarters to St. Leonard d'Acre in Palestine and later to Sicily. In 1617 it ceased to exist and was absorbed into the Jesuit order." It was never a seething cabal of esoteric and political interests, never had any influence over the Templars or any esoteric orders, and does not exist today as a legitimate order, Catholic or otherwise. It has been appropriated like many authentic histories, esoteric traditions, and orders to create a false history. In deference to the truth, in the remainder of this article I will refer to the false "Priory" in quotes.


Two examples will quickly illustrate how the false "Priory" has created its fictions. It has attempted to appropriate Templar history and portray the Templars as subservient to it and to its fictional bloodline(14) through totally fabricated documents various authors call "the Priory documents" and by such claims as one that the familial home of a Templar Grand Master was at Blanchefort, near Rennes-le-Chateau. Yet Blanchefort was the home of a Cathar noble by that name, not a Templar Grand Master.(15) Few researchers have bothered to investigate this or innumerable other outright fictions.


Similarly, Plantard alleges his "suppressed" last name is St. Clair, although no shred of proof supports this claim.(16) The Sinclairs (originally St. Clair), hereditary heads of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, were related by marriage to Templar founder Hugh de Payen. In this way, the "Priory" seeks to imply that it has an ancient and leading role in Masonry. Appropriating honored names associated with the esoteric is a tactic used at the time of Alpha Galates by prewar, anti-Masonic French rightists.(17)


The "Priory" constructed its fiction of the bloodline of Jesus by first creating the appearance of an authentic esoteric lineage for itself. It accomplished this by placing fabricated histories in libraries, by falsely associating itself with ancient esoteric groups, and by usurping the heritage of prewar esoteric groups. The group the "Priory" has plagiarized most from is the Order of the Rose-Croix of the Temple and the Grail, founded by Josephin Peladan in 1891.


This group is intimately connected with the real affair of Rennes-le Chateau. Some of its real and alleged links adopted by the "Priory" include: the work of the painter Nicolas Poussin; Emma Calve, a singer with numerous occult connections; claimed associations -with the Holy Vehm, the Knights Templar, and the survival of a supposedly lost monarchy; association with prominent cultural figures-, sensationalistic announcements of the discovery of the tomb of Jesus; the supposition of a higher esoteric order with supreme knowledge; the Cathars; and other themes appearing in "Priory" inspired stories. Berenger Sauniere, cure of Rennes-le-Chateau from 1885 to 1917, may have been associated with the Order of the Rose-Croix of the Temple and the Grail. This association is the source of the incomplete information which the "Priory of Sion" has inherited about Rennes-le-Chateau through the "Priory's" real founder, "Count Israel" Monti.


The actual "Priory" history begins with that obscure man, Georges "Count Israel" Monti, secretary to Josephin Peladan. Born in Toulouse in 1880 and Jesuit-educated, Monti considered the priesthood but entered the world of initiatic orders at age 22 and became a high-level Scottish Rite Mason.(18) By 1906 he had rapidly advanced in Peladan's order. In 1908 he journeyed to Egypt and in 1909 to Munich on Peladan's behalf.


Following Peladan's death in 1918, Monti appears as one trying desperately to be at ground zero of occult activities, but always only appearing as a supporting player with incomplete knowledge. He so craved recognition that he even affected the title "Count Israel" Monti. He began to tell melodramatic tales of his involvement in the supposed political activities of esoteric orders, although his only known political connection was with Leon Daudet, brother of the leader of the rightist group Action Francaise. And in 1922 Monti excitedly claimed an affiliation with the controversial magician Aleister Crowley and his occult group, and said he had been charged by occult groups in England and Germany to begin a new order.


In 1924, the sorcerer's apprentice sought to become the master. Monti acted to fulfill these sweeping directives and formed a new group. According to occultist Anne Osmont, he moved forward with a plan "to destroy all which is dear and precious to me, to build an illusory society." Together with a man calling himself Gaston Demengel, Monti, using the name Marcus Vella, formed a group calling itself "Groupe occidental d'etudes esoteriques," a very small, supposedly esoteric order. This organization was highly secretive, pretending to be an elite body dedicated to bringing the world a lasting peace and having a male and female branch (the Isis lodge). The extent of its membership and activities is unknown. Its only known document claimed as one of its goals the reconciliation of esoteric orders with the Catholic Church. This goal, as well as the pretensions of exclusivity, elitism, and an alleged interest in world peace, is echoed in the "Priory of Sion."


In October 1936, the Bulletin des ateliers superieurs de la Grande Loge de K France, the organ of the Masonic Grand Lodge, published a piece denouncing Monti as a trafficker in information, a fraudulent claimant to nobility, and a supposed Jesuit agent. On the 21st of the same month, Monti was found dead. Monti's close associate Dr. Camille Savoire rushed to examine him and claimed that Monti had been poisoned. Savoire is mentioned in the first issues of Alpha Galates' magazine Vaincre as one who, along with Plantard, rightist Louis Le Fur, and a Maurice Moncharville, was responsible for creating Vaincre. In issue No. 4 of Vaincre, Le Fur writes that he was initiated into Alpha Galates by Georges Monti in 1934. From 1934 until his death, Monti lived at 80 rue du Rocher in Paris. Perhaps too coincidentally, in 1942-43, Vaincre was printed down the street at 45 rue du Rocher by a Poirer Murat, whose name would surface after the war in association with Plantard.


Savoire had a long history of forming alternative esoteric groups. While active in Masonry, Savoire disagreed with long-established Masonic practices, goals, and leadership. Like Monti, Savoire was made a high-level Scottish Rite Mason, in Geneva in 1910. But by 1913, Savoire had formed his own group, the National Grand Lodge of France. In 1935, after the formation of Alpha Galates, he formed the interestingly named Grand Priory of the Gauls. He died in 1951. His close association with Monti and his involvement with alternative orders makes Savoire a likely candidate for assuming Monti's vacated leadership of Groupe occidental d'etudes esoteriques.


There are many associations between the prewar activities of Plantard and Monti and their associates on the one hand and the themes identified with the postwar "Priory of Sion" on the other. It is highly likely that Alpha Galates was a front for Monti's group and that Monti's group continued on, subsequently implementing a plan which would be carried out under the guise of the "Priory of Sion."


The "Priory's" first objective is to position itself in the mind of an unknowing public as the supreme Western esoteric organization. It dreams of utilizing that constituency in a synarchy-like fashion to promote its hybrid agenda of right-wing politics and turn-of-the-century esoteric teachings. It does not represent the real teachings of any positive esoteric order. It is materialistic, obsessed with attaining influence, and has fabricated documents without regard for any ethical considerations. Its program is to manipulate people through lies in order to promote itself.


The so-called bloodline created by the "Priory" does not exist. There is no descent from Jesus through the Merovingians or other families; in fact there is no genuine evidence of any bloodline descended from Christ. The survival of the Merovingian bloodline as promulgated in the "Priory" documents is based on the alleged marriage of Giselle de Razes to the seventh-century Merovingian King Dagobert Il. Giselle de Razes never existed. Plantard and his associates fabricated her.


The fraudulent history of the "Priory of Sion" and its false bloodline was created by utilizing the vast amount of esoteric documents publicly available in French libraries and by depositing its own documents among them. For example, Madan's papers were deposited in the Bibliotheque de l'Arsenal, and St.-Yves' papers were deposited in the Sorbonne in 1938 by the son of the well-known French occultist Papus, along with many of Papus' own papers.(19) An investigation by researcher Paul Smith has shown that some of the documents indicating a supposed bloodline and a "Priory" -inspired poem called Le serpent rouge were printed on the same press. During the war it is probable that the "Priory" also had access to the seized records of Masonic and esoteric societies, some quite old, which were deposited in the occupation-controlled Centre d'Action Maconnique. This depository was headed by Henri Coston, a right-wing, anti-Semitic journalist and collaborator, who was quoted on the first page of Vaincre No. 1.


Similarly, to create credibility with researchers, the "Priory" attached Plantard's family tree to an authentic genealogy originally appearing in a special edition of the historical journal Les cahiers de l'histoire No. 1 (1960), which was deposited in libraries containing other fabricated "Priory" documents.(20)


The concept of the phony bloodline originated in two places. In the 1930s the writings and speeches of the Italian esotericist Julius Evola received prominence in many philosophical, esoteric, and right-wing political circles, and were admired by Nazi leaders like Heinrich Himmler. Many "Priory" themes originated in Evola's ideas. To Evola's thinking, in the old system of world order, the king was believed to be a sacred being. Divine virtues and powers descended on him. Traditional institutions were based on sacred legacies. The state itself had a transcendent meaning. Evola also referred to a special quality of the blood which he alleged once existed in one royal house. Above all, he admired Godfrey of Bouillon, first Latin ruler of Palestine after the First Crusade, as the ideal ruler, the lux monarchorum ("light of monarchs").(21) Man could only be restored, Evola wrote, by the government of a spiritual elite, those wearing the belt or cord of initiates that marks the "carriers of some invisible influence."(22) All these ideas permeate "Priory" thought; "the Priory documents" even require members to have a cord at initiation.


To create the concept of the bloodline, Evola's ideas were melded with one other source, the doctoral dissertation of Walter Johannes Stein, originally published in Germany in 1928.(23) In this work, called The Ninth Century: World History in the Light of the Holy Grail, Stein, a close associate of Rudolf Steiner, detailed what he felt was the historical and symbolic background behind the Grail sagas.


An appendix to The Ninth Century is a genealogical chart Stein calls the "Grail bloodline." One side extends into the royal house of France. Another extends down to Godfrey of Bouillon. Part of Stein's thesis is that events in the lives of actual historical figures served as models for the characters and for some events in the Grail stories. According to Stein, the people associated with this family tree were acknowledged in their time as being of a high spiritual nature and having paranormal capacities. Yet he also stresses that these capacities had vanished from this family hundreds of years ago.


An undisciplined reader of Stein could easily confuse the historical persons with symbols. Stein's intent is actually to illustrate how the positive spiritual forces represented by the Holy Grail are sometimes manifested in the lives and actions of people and how those actions can affect society and events. He did not in any way state or imply that the Holy Grail was, or that it represented, a bloodline. He knew very well that is not the case.


These are the sources which, when twisted and distorted, were used to fabricate the fiction that a special bloodline supported by an age-old esoteric society lay behind most of the key political events and mysteries of French history and even the Holy Grail itself.


Today the "Priory" is intermittently active. Periodically, people claiming to be its representatives still attempt to influence writers and researchers by promoting in private correspondence the "Priory's" fabricated versions of history. Many well-intentioned people have been deceived by these fabrications. Despite the disillusionment which many may now feel, it is important to know there are groups and individuals in the world who are genuinely spiritual, highly developed, and acting to benefit mankind. They have existed in the past; they exist today; they will exist in the future, as long as even only a handful of people have the courage to reach inside themselves and live their lives in accordance with a genuine spirituality. However, to preserve the truth, it is incumbent on each of us to speak out on its behalf to counterbalance the false and materialistic sensationalism of the world's "Priories of Sion." By following such a path of integrity, each of us can work to maintain true spirituality, both within ourselves and in the world. Only then will be born a better day for humanity. This is in fact one of the lessons learned on the quest of the great spiritual reality which is the genuine Holy Grail.


NOTES


1. Joscelyn Godwin, "The Creation of a Universal System: St.-Yves d'Alveydre and his Archaeometer," in Alexandria 1 (1991), p. 230.

2. Peter Partner, The Murdered Magicians: The Templars and Their Myth (New York: Oxford University Press. 1982), pp. 172-176.

3. Ibid. p. 173.

4. For information on Plantard's background and work at this time, see "The Message of a Sacred Enigma, Tales, Legends and Myths of Rennes-le Chateau," an extract from "The Table of Isis, Part 2, The Templars of the Apocalypse," by Jean-Luc Chaumeil, translated by Paul Smith in The Rennes Observer 15 (June 1997), esp. pp. 19-20.

5. Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln, The Messianic Legacy (New York: Henry Holt, 1986), p. 35 1. Emphasis added.

6. Chaumeil, p. 20.

7. See Robert Richardson. "A Merovingian Promotion at St. Sulpice," ill The Rennes Observer 16 (Sept. 1997), pp. 36-37.

8. Paul Smith. "A Rennes-le-Chateau Chronology," Le Reflet (Engish language version, Autumn 1994), pp. 10-13.

9. Baigent et al., Messianic Legacy, pp. 288-95.

10. Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln, Holy Blood, Holy Grail (New York: Delacorte Press, 1982), p. 196. quoting an article in the "Priory" publication Circuit.

11. Baigent et al., Messianic Legacy, pp. 296-99, notes many similarities between the "Priory" and Alpha Galates.

12. Baigent et al., Holy Blood, Holy Grail, p. 138.

13. Gerard de Sede, Rennes-le-Chateau: Le dossier, les impostures, les phanstasmes, les hypotheses (Paris: Robert Lafont, 1988), p. 127.

14. Holy Blood, Holy Grail, pp. 36-67, is a good example of this nonsense.

15. See Noel Currer-Briggs, The Shroud and the Grail (New York: St. Martin's Press, 1978), p. 78.

16. Baigent et al., Messianic Legacy, pp. 259-60. Also see Holy Blood, Holy Grail, p. 439, note 21.

17. See Partner, p. 174, for an example.

18. De Sede, pp. 225-36.

19. Godwin, p. 230.

20. Chaumeil, p. 20.

21. Julius Evola. Revolt against the Modern World, trans. Guido Stucco (Rochester, Vt.: Inner Traditions, 1994); foreword by H.T. Hansen, pp. viii, 15, 22, 41, 298, 300.

22. Julius Evola, The Mystery of the Grail: Initiation and Magic in the Quest for the Spirit, trans. Guido Stucco (Rochester, Vt.: Inner Traditions, 1996), p. 134.

23. Walter Johannes Stein, The Ninth Century: World History in the Light of the Holy Grail (London: Temple Lodge Press, 1991).


SOURCES

(c) 2000 by Robert Richardson. All rights reserved. Originally published in Gnosis (No. 51, Spring 1999), pp. 49-55.

Robert Richardson is the author of The Unknown Treasure: The Priory of Sion Fraud and the Spiritual Treasure of Rennes-le-Château (Houston, TX: NorthStar, 1998), available from Pratum Book Co., PO Box 985, Healdsburg, California 95448, USA. knowledge@pratum.com.


As for the black/white rainbow stone, I guess it's not the one found at the Blue Mountain, at Lajwurd. Jung makes it out as card 21 in the major arcanum, the World, integrated, Cosmos. The Phoenix is rather tied down to the color pink, the mixing of red and white, the dappled canopy of the red sky, strewn with white stars, semen or clouds, the brain and the skull, the color of resurrection for the Egyptian amanita cult when the soul flies free from the ashen lakes of lower existence. The symbolic color resurrected in Clifford D. Simak's Time is the Simplest Thing, Philip K. Dick's VALIS, the color of the ray of gnosis shooting out from the cloud of unknowing to illuminate those who were in darkness.

David Guyatt
11-04-2009, 01:56 PM
There is a lot here that goes back to Papus and the politically focused Martinist Order that is behind the idea Synarchy and which the faked up PoS was intimately involved with -- hence all those nasty fascist types at SMOM, Shickshinny, Wandering Bishops and the AS et al.

Hearkening back to EWS again, I'd like to link to to an analysis of Kubrick's film by one Rob Ager, called "Unseen Reflections" (http://www.collativelearning.com/EYES%20WIDE%20SHUT%20analysis.html), in which he says that the character Bill Harford played by Tom Cruise lives in a dreams state (Kubrick based his film on the German novel Traumnovelle, which translates as "Dream Story". That is until after he attends the Somerton ritual and is forced by events to wake up. Ager's essay is interesting and insightful but, imo, he misses the deeper pulse that I think Kubrick was exploring.

I cannot help but wonder if Kubrick chose the subject of Bill being asleep in order to echo the state of the Fool in Tarot cards - or in the Arthurian Cycle which would, I imagine, equate to Sir Perceval who was brought up in a forest (i.e., he was wholly unconcious) by his Mother (complex) who ensured he was kept unworldly. But in full time it is Perceval (Parsifal = the pure fool) who attained the Grail (Sir Bors being the only other one to do so).

Helen said


As for the black/white rainbow stone, I guess it's not the one found at the Blue Mountain, at Lajwurd. Jung makes it out as card 21 in the major arcanum, the World, integrated, Cosmos.

I think, because the 21st Tarot card, The World symbolizes accomplishment and wholeness, which is the entire purpose of the process of integration of the split parts to create the whole.


The Phoenix is rather tied down to the color pink, the mixing of red and white, the dappled canopy of the red sky, strewn with white stars, semen or clouds, the brain and the skull, the color of resurrection for the Egyptian amanita cult when the soul flies free from the ashen lakes of lower existence.

You should see my wonderful (and quite large) collection of digital paintings, including (but by no means limited to) examples from El Greco, Carvaggio, Durer, Rubens, Spada through to Micheangelo, Monet and David Teniers the younger (sad ain't I) that include the motif of the human skull within the painting.

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/188499/1/The-Alchemist-3.jpg
David Teniers the Younger - The Alchemist

Teniers, as you will recall was one of the two painters referenced in the PoS story. The Teniers painting in question was The Temptation of St. Antoine - which also features a skull - amongst other things.

The human skull symbolizes the alembic or the retort of the alchemists, where the metals (psychological parts/elements) are broken down as a consequence of the nigredo and then reintegrated according to the alchemical motto Solve et Coagula. Clearly this does not happen in the skull of the deceased as symbolically represented but rather the living skull (i.e., our very own bonces).

If you're seeking the Grail cup or vessel, there is no better representation of it than the foregoing human skull - hence its widespread adoption by painters and artists throughout the ages.

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/75426/1/St.-Francis-C.-1606.jpg
St. Francis in meditation - Caravaggio

Helen Reyes
11-04-2009, 03:58 PM
Hearkening back to EWS again, I'd like to link to to an analysis of Kubrick's film by one Rob Ager, called "Unseen Reflections" (http://www.collativelearning.com/EYES%20WIDE%20SHUT%20analysis.html), in which he says that the character Bill Harford played by Tom Cruise lives in a dreams state (Kubrick based his film on the German novel Traumnovelle, which translates as "Dream Story". That is until after he attends the Somerton ritual and is forced by events to wake up. Ager's essay is interesting and insightful but, imo, he misses the deeper pulse that I think Kubrick was exploring.

I cannot help but wonder if Kubrick chose the subject of Bill being asleep in order to echo the state of the Fool in Tarot cards - or in the Arthurian Cycle which would, I imagine, equate to Sir Perceval who was brought up in a forest (i.e., he was wholly unconcious) by his Mother (complex) who ensured he was kept unworldly. But in full time it is Perceval (Parsifal = the pure fool) who attained the Grail (Sir Bors being the only other one to do so).

Yes, as I read that I imagined I understood why Kubrick selected two actors who were living in trance states to play the major roles. Manson was just a clear; Tom Cruise is the world's first Operating Thetan. Ziegler makes a fine Klingsor as well.

In place of merely modernizing a Wagner opera, Kubrick with his trademark pregnant silences, colors, lighting and geometries might have been saying something about the ultimate nature of reality, beyond the obvious New World Order implications. For the sake of argument, try taking Poe's poem question literally and answerable in the affirmative:



Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow—
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand—
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep—while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?


-- THE END --


for Orpheus. Eurydice. Hermes. And Barbara with infinite love as I falter on the road to Ithaka

The new-born starts out unable to grasp anything, like the fool, and the man ends unable to hold on to any of the grains of sand, so 0=21. Poe is making a larger statement though about life as phantasm I suppose.

David said:


I think, because the 21st Tarot card, The World symbolizes accomplishment and wholeness, which is the entire purpose of the process of integration of the split parts to create the whole.

I don't know if Jung wrote or said anything of the kind, I was just saying what he said about rainbows connected in my mind with that card, the circle coming full circle.

David Guyatt
11-04-2009, 06:58 PM
Helen said:


As for the black/white rainbow stone, I guess it's not the one found at the Blue Mountain, at Lajwurd. Jung makes it out as card 21 in the major arcanum, the World, integrated, Cosmos.

and:


I don't know if Jung wrote or said anything of the kind, I was just saying what he said about rainbows connected in my mind with that card, the circle coming full circle.


Well, never-the-less you were right even though you apparently didn't know it. Card 21 does signify completeness which is fitting for the point under discussion.

Jung extensively studied every aspect of symbolism as significant emanations of the Collective Unconscious - including Tarot, Astrology, I-Ching, Grail-lore, Fairytales, Fables and, of course Alchemy (by no means a complete list).

I spent an interesting afternoon in Zurich many years ago when I was studying these things (with greater zeal than today), with a very elderly and very shrewd/insightful lady in her Nineties, a Jungian Analyst, who personally trained under Jung and who specialized in Tarot and Astrology. It was an eye-opening encounter!

I mention this because many will consider these subjects as a bit new age for this forum - a bit dotty in other words. But all art, to a lesser or greater degree, manifest unconscious contents - as indeed do all religions - thus making them ripe for Jungian analysis and therefore an important tool towards greater understanding.

I believe that segments of the film had been edited out by Warner Bros., and if true this makes the task more difficult.

Helen Reyes
11-04-2009, 09:27 PM
Yes, some New Age stuff gets very sloppy. You get people quoting Tibetan lamas and Tim Leary to "prove" that all reality is inside your head, everything equals everything and nothing is real. We're talking about something else: about dreams within dreams, mirrors within mirrors, films within films, nested realities, not that everything is true, but that the foundations of this world, cosmos, lead one to believe that others are just as plausible. If reality is a hypostasis of the mind, that doesn't help us a lot, because we so little understand either the mind or reality. That other hypostases exist, we can guess on pretty good authority.

If we need to use geographical models to reach our goal, or if actual objects become conflated with spiritual concepts, there is no sin, because we are aware these are merely devices.

In the case at hand, I think we've got it nailed: the timing of Roman Polanski's arrest is connected with cleaning out a row and, I strongly believe, with the film he was working on, which is now delayed and won't be released before a federalized EU selects a leader. As Charles said, expect an operation to always serve at least two aims.

It is probably not a coincidence that EWS um mirrors Rosemary's Baby in many ways. Apparently we don't really know the ending to EWS, so it would be pointless to attempt to extrapolate events such as Sharon Tate and her baby's murder.

Again, if the archetypes act like crystals around which real events can take shape, then we should expect parallel crystals which serve the purpose of alternate worlds. This probably relates somehow to the strange attractors Peter Levenda catalogues. How things coagulate in this world, we shall see.

Jan Klimkowski
12-05-2009, 03:50 PM
Roman Polanski begins house arrest in Swiss chalet

Film director confined to property in Gstaad while Swiss authorities decide whether to extradite him to the US

Associated Press guardian.co.uk, Friday 4 December 2009 13.18 GMT Article

Roman Polanski today began his house arrest on $4.5m (Ł2.7m) bail, arriving in the Swiss resort of Gstaad in a police convoy.

The film director was welcomed by his wife, Emmanuelle Seigner, and his children, Elvis, nine, and 16-year-old Morgane, at his Alpine chalet.

He arrived in the resort after persuading the Swiss authorities to end his two-month spell in a Swiss prison pending their decision on whether to extradite him to the US in a 32-year-old sex case.


Two police cars went into the chalet's garage, which has direct access to the house.

Polanski was unseen behind tinted windows, but police confirmed to the Associated Press that he was in one of the vehicles.

"Roman Polanski was released from custody pending extradition and transferred to Gstaad, where he is under house arrest at his chalet," the Swiss justice ministry said.

"Polanski has undertaken not to leave his house and property at any time."

Police and private security officers were guarding the chalet.

The 76-year-old Polanski will not be allowed to leave the house while Switzerland decides whether to extradite him to the US for having sex with a 13-year-old girl in 1977. He will also have to wear an electronic monitoring bracelet.

The Oscar-winning director of Rosemary's Baby, Chinatown and The Pianist has been in Swiss custody since being arrested on a US warrant in September as he arrived to receive a lifetime achievement award at the Zurich film festival.

Authorities in Los Angeles want him returned to be sentenced after 31 years as a fugitive.

Polanski was initially accused of raping the girl after plying her with Champagne and a Quaalude pill during a modelling shoot.

He was indicted on six felony counts, including rape by use of drugs, child molestation and sodomy, but pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of unlawful sexual intercourse.

In exchange, the judge agreed to drop the remaining charges and sent him to prison for a 90-day psychiatric evaluation.

The evaluator released him after 42 days, but the judge said he was going to send him back to serve the 90 days.

Polanski fled the US on 1 February 1978 – the day he was to have been formally sentenced. He has since lived in France, which does not extradite its citizens.

He claims the US judge and prosecutors acted improperly in his case. His lawyers will tell a California appeals court later this month that the charges should be dismissed.

Swiss officials say Polanski has transferred the bail and deposited all identification and travel documents with Zurich police. Bail will be forfeited should he violate the terms of his release.

Prosecutors and defence lawyers in the US declined to comment on Polanski being freed from prison.

"We're not going to be making any comments about Mr Polanski outside court while his extradition is pending in the Swiss courts," Sandi Gibbons, of the Los Angeles District Attorney's office, said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/dec/04/roman-polanski-house-arrest-switzerland

Carsten Wiethoff
05-03-2010, 05:53 AM
Polanski in his own words (from here (http://laregledujeu.org/2010/05/02/1397/i-can-remain-silent-no-longer/))



Throughout my seven months since September 26, 2009, the date of my arrest at Zurich Airport, where I had landed with a view to receiving a lifetime award for my work from the representative of the Swiss Minister of Culture, I have refrained from making any public statements and have requested my lawyers to confine their comments to a bare minimum. I wanted the legal authorities of Switzerland and the United States, as well as my lawyers, to do their work without any polemics on my part. I have decided to break my silence in order to address myself directly to you without any intermediaries and in my own words.
I have had my share of dramas and joys, as we all have, and I am not going to try to ask you to pity my lot in life. I ask only to be treated fairly like anyone else.
It is true: 33 years ago I pleaded guilty, and I served time at the prison for common law crimes at Chino, not in a VIP prison. That period was to have covered the totality of my sentence. By the time I left prison, the judge had changed his mind and claimed that the time served at Chino did not fulfil the entire sentence, and it is this reversal that justified my leaving the United States.
This affair was roused from its slumbers of over three decades by a documentary film-maker who gathered evidence from persons involved at the time. I took no part in that project, either directly or indirectly. The resulting documentary not only highlighted the fact that I left the United States because I had been treated unjustly; it also drew the ire of the Los Angeles authorities, who felt that they had been attacked and decided to request my extradition from Switzerland, a country I have been visiting regularly for over 30 years without let or hindrance.
I can now remain silent no longer!
I can remain silent no longer because the American authorities have just decided, in defiance of all the arguments and depositions submitted by third parties, not to agree to sentence me in absentia even though the same Court of Appeal recommended the contrary.
I can remain silent no longer because the California court has dismissed the victim’s numerous requests that proceedings against me be dropped, once and for all, to spare her from further harassment every time this affair is raised once more.
I can remain silent no longer because there has just been a new development of immense significance. On February 26 last, Roger Gunson, the deputy district attorney in charge of the case in 1977, now retired, testified under oath before Judge Mary Lou Villar in the presence of David Walgren, the present deputy district attorney in charge of the case, who was at liberty to contradict and question him, that on September 16, 1977, Judge Rittenband stated to all the parties concerned that my term of imprisonment in Chino constituted the totality of the sentence I would have to serve.
I can remain silent no longer because the request for my extradition addressed to the Swiss authorities is founded on a lie. In the same statement, retired deputy district attorney Roger Gunson added that it was false to claim, as the present district attorney’s office does in their request for my extradition, that the time I spent in Chino was for the purpose of a diagnostic study.
The said request asserts that I fled in order to escape sentencing by the U.S. judicial authorities, but under the plea-bargaining process I had acknowledged the facts and returned to the United States in order to serve my sentence. All that remained was for the court to confirm this agreement, but the judge decided to repudiate it in order to gain himself some publicity at my expense.
I can remain silent no longer because for over 30 years my lawyers have never ceased to insist that I was betrayed by the judge, that the judge perjured himself, and that I served my sentence. Today it is the deputy district attorney who handled the case in the 1970s, a man of irreproachable reputation, who has confirmed all my statements under oath, and this has shed a whole new light on the matter.
I can remain silent no longer because the same causes are now producing the same effects. The new District Attorney, who is handling this case and has requested my extradition, is himself campaigning for election and needs media publicity!
I can no longer remain silent because the United States continues to demand my extradition more to serve me on a platter to the media of the world than to pronounce a judgment concerning which an agreement was reached 33 years ago.
I can remain silent no longer because I have been placed under house arrest in Gstaad and bailed in very large sum of money which I have managed to raise only by mortgaging the apartment that has been my home for over 30 years, and because I am far from my family and unable to work.
Such are the facts I wished to put before you in the hope that Switzerland will recognize that there are no grounds for extradition, and that I shall be able to find peace, be reunited with my family, and live in freedom in my native land.
Roman Polanski

David Guyatt
05-03-2010, 08:33 AM
Thanks for posting this Carsten.

It says all that needs to be said about the cynical abuse and misuse of the legal and justice systems for personal benefit.

Jan Klimkowski
05-16-2010, 06:51 PM
The claim is that Polanski is a serial abuser.

The original American charge was for sodomy of a minor.

Charlotte Lewis now claims that Polanski had abused her "in the worst possible way" in Paris when she was 16.


British actor claims Roman Polanski sexually abused her at 16

Charlotte Lewis makes allegations to support charges in US

The legal problems of the film director Roman Polanski, who is currently under house arrest in his Swiss chateau awaiting extradition to the US charged with raping a 13-year-old girl three decades ago, thickened yesterday when a British actor claimed he had sexually abused her in the 1980s when she was 16 years old.

Charlotte Lewis, now 42, appeared at the office of her lawyer, Gloria Allred, in Los Angeles to put to reporters the allegation that Polanski had abused her "in the worst possible way" in Paris. She gave no details, and no evidence was provided to support the accusation.

But Allred said that her client wanted to present the allegations in order to show the US courts that the charges Polanski is currently facing – that he drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl in Jack Nicholson's house in LA in 1977 – were not isolated.

Lewis, who appeared in Polanski's film Pirates in 1986 – four years after the alleged assault was alleged to have taken place – read a statement at a news conference and refused to answer questions. "He took advantage of me and I have lived with the effects of his behaviour ever since it occurred. All I want is justice," she said.

LA police confirmed to Associated Press that Lewis had been interviewed by their department, though no formal investigation has yet begun.

Polanski, the director of such Hollywood classics as Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby, has been in legal limbo since September when a US warrant for his arrest was issued after he travelled to Switzerland to receive an award at a film festival. He faces charges that he gave Quaaludes and champagne to the 13-year-old in 1977 then raped her, having pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor. But he fled before sentencing.

This week the LA judge who is hearing the Polanski case turned down a request from his lawyers to publish secret testimony in the case. The defence said that would show misconduct by the judge, now dead, who had handled the case.

Polanski's legal team said they were unaware of the allegations from Lewis.

Lewis also appeared in the 1986 movie The Golden Child and had small roles in other films and television shows.

Allred is known for taking on controversial cases. She recently represented Rachel Uchitel, one of the women involved with the golfer Tiger Woods.

At the Cannes film festival yesterday, the actor Michael Douglas said he would not sign a petition in support of Polanski – posted on a website overseen by French philosopher Bernard-Henri Levy – because Polanski "did break the law".

David Guyatt
05-17-2010, 11:09 AM
It seems very curious that this allegation has come so late in the day... it's not as if she didn't know that Polanski had been recharged with the 1977 abuse? This seems to play into the hands of the LA prosecutor?

Peter Lemkin
05-17-2010, 11:47 AM
The claim is that Polanski is a serial abuser.

The original American charge was for sodomy of a minor.

Charlotte Lewis now claims that Polanski had abused her "in the worst possible way" in Paris when she was 16.


British actor claims Roman Polanski sexually abused her at 16

Charlotte Lewis makes allegations to support charges in US

The legal problems of the film director Roman Polanski, who is currently under house arrest in his Swiss chateau awaiting extradition to the US charged with raping a 13-year-old girl three decades ago, thickened yesterday when a British actor claimed he had sexually abused her in the 1980s when she was 16 years old.

Charlotte Lewis, now 42, appeared at the office of her lawyer, Gloria Allred, in Los Angeles to put to reporters the allegation that Polanski had abused her "in the worst possible way" in Paris. She gave no details, and no evidence was provided to support the accusation.

But Allred said that her client wanted to present the allegations in order to show the US courts that the charges Polanski is currently facing – that he drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl in Jack Nicholson's house in LA in 1977 – were not isolated.

Lewis, who appeared in Polanski's film Pirates in 1986 – four years after the alleged assault was alleged to have taken place – read a statement at a news conference and refused to answer questions. "He took advantage of me and I have lived with the effects of his behaviour ever since it occurred. All I want is justice," she said.

LA police confirmed to Associated Press that Lewis had been interviewed by their department, though no formal investigation has yet begun.

Polanski, the director of such Hollywood classics as Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby, has been in legal limbo since September when a US warrant for his arrest was issued after he travelled to Switzerland to receive an award at a film festival. He faces charges that he gave Quaaludes and champagne to the 13-year-old in 1977 then raped her, having pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor. But he fled before sentencing.

This week the LA judge who is hearing the Polanski case turned down a request from his lawyers to publish secret testimony in the case. The defence said that would show misconduct by the judge, now dead, who had handled the case.

Polanski's legal team said they were unaware of the allegations from Lewis.

Lewis also appeared in the 1986 movie The Golden Child and had small roles in other films and television shows.

Allred is known for taking on controversial cases. She recently represented Rachel Uchitel, one of the women involved with the golfer Tiger Woods.

At the Cannes film festival yesterday, the actor Michael Douglas said he would not sign a petition in support of Polanski – posted on a website overseen by French philosopher Bernard-Henri Levy – because Polanski "did break the law".

Gee...wonder who paid her....or prodded her to come forward all these years later.....the usual treatment for those who stand up to the PTB.....

Charles Drago
05-17-2010, 12:04 PM
"Prodded" her???

Dawn Meredith
05-17-2010, 02:39 PM
The claim is that Polanski is a serial abuser.

The original American charge was for sodomy of a minor.

Charlotte Lewis now claims that Polanski had abused her "in the worst possible way" in Paris when she was 16.


British actor claims Roman Polanski sexually abused her at 16

Charlotte Lewis makes allegations to support charges in US

The legal problems of the film director Roman Polanski, who is currently under house arrest in his Swiss chateau awaiting extradition to the US charged with raping a 13-year-old girl three decades ago, thickened yesterday when a British actor claimed he had sexually abused her in the 1980s when she was 16 years old.

Charlotte Lewis, now 42, appeared at the office of her lawyer, Gloria Allred, in Los Angeles to put to reporters the allegation that Polanski had abused her "in the worst possible way" in Paris. She gave no details, and no evidence was provided to support the accusation.

But Allred said that her client wanted to present the allegations in order to show the US courts that the charges Polanski is currently facing – that he drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl in Jack Nicholson's house in LA in 1977 – were not isolated.

Lewis, who appeared in Polanski's film Pirates in 1986 – four years after the alleged assault was alleged to have taken place – read a statement at a news conference and refused to answer questions. "He took advantage of me and I have lived with the effects of his behaviour ever since it occurred. All I want is justice," she said.

LA police confirmed to Associated Press that Lewis had been interviewed by their department, though no formal investigation has yet begun.

Polanski, the director of such Hollywood classics as Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby, has been in legal limbo since September when a US warrant for his arrest was issued after he travelled to Switzerland to receive an award at a film festival. He faces charges that he gave Quaaludes and champagne to the 13-year-old in 1977 then raped her, having pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor. But he fled before sentencing.

This week the LA judge who is hearing the Polanski case turned down a request from his lawyers to publish secret testimony in the case. The defence said that would show misconduct by the judge, now dead, who had handled the case.

Polanski's legal team said they were unaware of the allegations from Lewis.

Lewis also appeared in the 1986 movie The Golden Child and had small roles in other films and television shows.

Allred is known for taking on controversial cases. She recently represented Rachel Uchitel, one of the women involved with the golfer Tiger Woods.

At the Cannes film festival yesterday, the actor Michael Douglas said he would not sign a petition in support of Polanski – posted on a website overseen by French philosopher Bernard-Henri Levy – because Polanski "did break the law".

Gee...wonder who paid her....or prodded her to come forward all these years later.....the usual treatment for those who stand up to the PTB.....

Peter: I echo what Jan wrote early on in this thread. Perhaps this new woman is not telling the truth, but to just assume she is lying is blaming the victim...Child molesters do not stop with one, not ever. And now they kill thier victims, like that pig in Florida who buried alive that beautiful little girl. After holding her hostage and raping her for days in his mother's double-wide. It will cost the tax payers millions as this is a death penalty case. And he is indigent.
I will be so glad to retire from criminal law and just do juvenile and child protective services. Alas, in this economy, that day is not close.
Dawn

Dawn Meredith
05-17-2010, 02:40 PM
"Prodded" her???


:)

Helen Reyes
05-17-2010, 04:17 PM
It's starting to make sense thanks to Carsten. Some new prosecutor in LA is making a name. Whether the new charges are true or not, who knows, they might be, but it seems likely the DA in LA unearthed it. Dawn's right about the child molestor's MO of course, they never stop at one victim. Then again, 16 isn't completely a child. As for prodding, it sounds like a minor actress (?), no pun intended, is also seeking a bit of media attention to get some better name recognition.

Helen Reyes
05-29-2010, 09:09 PM
In re cleaning out the row:

Dennis Hopper has been hospitalized with "flu-like symptoms."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/30/dennis-hopper-hospitalize_n_304677.html

Dennis Hopper is dead.

Keith Millea
05-29-2010, 10:32 PM
Ride on Easy Rider,Ride On........:wavey:

"Easy Rider":Nicholson and Hopper on Freedom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHd6m_cirrU&feature=related

Jan Klimkowski
05-30-2010, 07:24 PM
Dawn's right about the child molestor's MO of course, they never stop at one victim. Then again, 16 isn't completely a child. As for prodding, it sounds like a minor actress (?), no pun intended, is also seeking a bit of media attention to get some better name recognition.

The new "victim" was 16 at the time, but the "actress" that Polanski buggered in Jack Nicholson's house, after giving her Quaaludes, a CNS depressant, was 13 years old.

Polanski ran with Robert Evans, who is a central figure in Maury Terry's work on the Son of Sam, Manson 2, etc.

Polanski's drug dealing extended family had rather too intimate contact with Manson 1.

See here for starters:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11872&postcount=33

Helen Reyes
06-07-2010, 06:32 PM
Thanks, Jan. I think I read through that thread before but will recheck.

Meanwhile, this struck me as pretty interesting, Polanski as K. By a Czech no less.

http://www.haaretz.com/haaretz-authors-edition/free-roman-polanski-1.293647


Published 00:44 02.06.10
Latest update 00:44 02.06.10
Free Roman Polanski!

Although I do not know the director personally, Roman Polanski has been on my mind more than any other person for the past eight months.

By Milan Kundera

This article is part of a special edition of Haaretz, to mark Israel's book week.

I have never met Roman Polanski. I know him only through his work, which I have loved ever since his first films, and through whatever I have been able to learn of his life. He has always seemed to me to be of an exemplary European character, given his childhood encounter with anti-Semitism, his repeated experiences as an emigre, and his classic and beautiful blend of Polish and French cultures.

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.293682.1275429598!/image/4159017122.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_295/4159017122.jpg
Roman Polanski. Photo by: AP

However, although I do not know him personally, he has been on my mind more than any other person for the past eight months. I can envisage him forcibly confined and continually monitored in a Swiss chalet where he is trying to work but - as I well know - is unable to.

When you are accused of a crime, you are always in prison. The accusation preoccupies you; it prevents you from thinking about anything else. It deprives you of life itself.

I will say nothing here about the legal aspect of this entire affair. Nonetheless, I do wish to say that European art, literature and theater have taught us that we must tear the curtain off all judicial, religious and ideological rules and that we must view human existence in all its concrete reality.

As someone who feels a loyalty to that culture, I refuse to be blind to the absurdity of Polanski's situation: He is being persecuted for an act that took place 33 years ago. All the protagonists in the drama long ago pardoned him. For this act, he is the defendant in an endless trial that will benefit no one. Absolutely no one.

If Europe is still Europe, if it is still heir of its own culture, it cannot give tacit agreement to the absurdity of the cruel pantomime that is currently being played out in a Swiss chalet.

The writer, winner of the Jerusalem Prize, authored "The Unbearable Lightness of Being," among other novels.

Peter Lemkin
06-07-2010, 07:35 PM
"Prodded" her???

I didn't mean it so LITERALLY, Charles!

Carsten Wiethoff
07-12-2010, 01:47 PM
Finally. :flowers:

http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/polanski-free-swiss-reject-us-extradition-request-1.653366

Polanski free, Swiss reject US extradition request

Swiss government declared renowned film director Roman Polanski a free man on Monday after rejecting a US request to extradite him


AP
Published: 17:08 July 12, 2010

http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/roman-polanski-1.532867%21image/1962107001.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_475/1962107001.jpg

A file photo of Roman Polanski
Image Credit: AP


BERN, Switzerland: The Swiss government declared renowned film director Roman Polanski a free man on Monday after rejecting a US request to extradite him on a charge of having sex in 1977 with a 13-year-old girl.
The Swiss mostly blamed US authorities for failing to provide confidential testimony about Polanski's sentencing procedure in 1977-1978.
The stunning decision could end the United States' three-decade pursuit of Polanski, unless he travels to another country that would be willing to apprehend him and weigh sending him to Los Angeles. France, where he has spent much of his time, does not extradite its own citizens, and the public scrutiny over Switzerland's deliberations may dissuade other nations from making such a spectacular arrest.
The Swiss government said it had sought confidential testimony given on Jan. 26 by Roger Gunson, the Los Angeles attorney in charge of the original prosecution against Polanski. Washington rejected the request.

"Mr. Polanski can now move freely. Since 12:30 today he's a free man," Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf declared.
The Oscar-winning director of "Rosemary's Baby," "Chinatown" and "The Pianist" was accused of plying his victim with champagne and part of a Quaalude during a 1977 modeling shoot and raping her. He was initially indicted on six felony counts, including rape by use of drugs, child molesting and sodomy, but pleaded guilty to one count of unlawful sexual intercourse.
In exchange, the judge agreed to drop the remaining charges and sentence him to prison for a 90-day psychiatric evaluation. However, he was released after 42 days by an evaluator who deemed him mentally sound and unlikely to offend again. The judge responded by saying he was going to send Polanski back to jail for the remainder of the 90 days and that afterward he would ask Polanski to agree to a "voluntary deportation." Polanski then fled the country on the eve of his Feb. 1, 1978, sentencing.
Based on references to Gunson's testimony in US courts, the Swiss said it "should prove" that Polanski served his sentence after undergoing 42 days of diagnostic study, the statement said.
"If this were the case, Roman Polanski would actually have already served his sentence and therefore both the proceedings on which the US extradition request is founded and the request itself would have no foundation," the ministry said.
The Justice Ministry also said that national interests were taken into consideration in the decision.
"The 76-year-old French-Polish film director Roman Polanski will not be extradited to the USA," the ministry said in a statement. "The freedom-restricting measures against him have been revoked."
Polanski's lawyer Herve Temime said the director was still at his Swiss chalet in the resort of Gstaad, where he has been held under house arrest since December.
Switzerland's top justice official said he could now leave.
Temime told The Associated Press by telephone from his office in Paris that his client was ready to enjoy his freedom.
"This decision was certainly not expected," Temime said.
He praised Swiss authorities for making the responsible decision.
Approving extradition had seemed the likeliest scenario after Polanski was arrested on Sept. 26 as he arrived in Zurich to receive a lifetime achievement award from a film festival. Polanski had also suffered a series of legal setbacks this year in California courts.
Switzerland handles about 200 extradition requests a year and only about 5 percent are rejected, Widmer-Schlumpf said.
Widmer-Schlumpf said this decision was not meant to excuse Polanski's crime, saying the issue was "not about deciding whether he is guilty or not guilty."
The government said extradition had to be rejected "considering the persisting doubts concerning the presentation of the facts of the case."
Beyond the legal confusion, Polanski's extradition is a complicated and diplomatically sensitive because of Polanski's status as a cultural icon in France and Poland, where he holds dual citizenship, and his history as a Holocaust survivor whose first wife was murdered by crazed followers of cult leader Charles Manson in California.
Widmer-Schlumpf said she informed authorities in the United States, France and Poland, in addition to Polanski's lawyer.

Peter Lemkin
07-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Well, a small justice in an unjust world. Good for him; sadly, most who are not so rich and famous don't fair so well.....:bike:

Jan Klimkowski
07-12-2010, 06:32 PM
I have no good feelings about this.

Polanski raped and buggered a child, and has somehow managed to portray himself as the victim.

Carsten Wiethoff
07-13-2010, 05:54 AM
I have no good feelings about this.

Polanski raped and buggered a child, and has somehow managed to portray himself as the victim.
I kind of understand your lack of good feelings, but you certainly see that this case is much more complex than this. In fact the swiss decision does not concern the question of guilt, P. himself admitted his guilt 33 years ago. The decision, about which I do have good feelings concerns the rejection of a bogus extradition request at a time when all people involved in the original crime have made their peace with it and the sudden interest after all this time certainly does not serve justice, whatever that may be in this case. Would your feelings really be better if P. would have been sent to the US? Why?

Peter Lemkin
07-13-2010, 11:13 AM
I have no good feelings about this.

Polanski raped and buggered a child, and has somehow managed to portray himself as the victim.

No one is applauding what he did. He was sentenced and served time for that. There was something very odd indeed about a resentencing. There are MANY complicating factors - not the least of which is the targeting of his wife by an intelligence connected spook. Why the USA would leave this for decades and then suddenly bring it up again is yet another layer of sinister. I also do not trust the American 'justice system' and less so its 'Penal system' at this point. Those inside prison mostly belong out; and those controlling the system mostly belong in it....That the USA refused to explain or even answer Switzerland's questions speaks volumes....that they knew it would not stand up to legal scrutiny [except maybe in the legal vacuum in the USA] and Switzerland did the right thing, I think.....as does the original 'victim'.

Jan Klimkowski
07-13-2010, 05:02 PM
I have no good feelings about this.

Polanski raped and buggered a child, and has somehow managed to portray himself as the victim.
I kind of understand your lack of good feelings, but you certainly see that this case is much more complex than this. In fact the swiss decision does not concern the question of guilt, P. himself admitted his guilt 33 years ago. The decision, about which I do have good feelings concerns the rejection of a bogus extradition request at a time when all people involved in the original crime have made their peace with it and the sudden interest after all this time certainly does not serve justice, whatever that may be in this case. Would your feelings really be better if P. would have been sent to the US? Why?

Carsten -Polanski drugged and anally raped a 13-year-old child. I don't know what the appropriate sentence is for that, but Polanski sure as hell didn't serve it.

I've articulated my thoughts on Polanski, and his vicious, sadistic, criminal circle - which included the notorious Bob Evans and lots of spooky characters - in many posts on DPF. Including in this very thread. See eg here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11726&postcount=18

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11798&postcount=28

The timing of the American extradition request was strange. Certainly.

But the notion of Polanski as victim is one I find utterly repugnant.

Ed Jewett
07-16-2010, 02:45 AM
Thursday, July 15, 2010

Polanski conspiracy (http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2010/07/polanski-conspiracy.html)

Why did Pedoland not send Roman back to serve his sentence? Looks like a conspiracy between Pedish authorities and some of the Americans, a conspiracy now described as a 'miscommunication'. From the AP (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jo3NMirGcL5AMDAh0HOwob-91XDwD9GVF8JO0):
"The Swiss government asked the U.S. Justice Department to release sealed transcripts in the Roman Polanski case just days before a Los Angeles judge was told that the Swiss did not request that information, according to a letter from Swiss officials that points to apparent miscommunication in the case."Note that this first paragraph is completely confusing, possibly intentionally so. It confuses two separate proceedings, one brought by Roman's lawyers before a Los Angeles judge, and the other being the extradition, which was between the Pedoland Government and the U. S. Justice Department. The Los Angeles judge is a red herring. The article continues (my emphasis in red):
"The officials said that the denial of access to the information was the key factor in the refusal to extradite the film maker to the U.S., according to the letter to the U.S. Embassy in Bern, Switzerland.

A district attorney's spokeswoman said their office was never notified of the Swiss request and did not know that the Justice Department had turned it down.

The letter dated Monday was obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday night. It provided a time line of when the request was filed and when it was turned down.

The letter blamed the denial of extradition solidly on the refusal by the Justice Department to show transcripts of testimony by the film director's original prosecutor to Swiss officials.

"Since the additional documents requested were not transmitted in full, extradition of Roman Polanski to the United States of America is thus denied," said the letter.

Justice Department spokeswoman Laura Sweeney said she had no comment on the matter.

The Swiss said that they wanted to know whether Polanski, who was being held in a 33-year-old sex case, had already served his sentence.

The Swiss had said from the beginning that their extradition laws allowed Polanski to be sent to the United States only if he was going to be required to serve at least six months in prison. They sought the testimony of original prosecutor Roger Gunson to clarify the matter.

On May 13, the letter said, the Justice Department "responded that the desired copy of the statement of Roger Gunson could not be given out."

The letter added, "Under these circumstances it cannot be excluded with certainty that Roman Polanski, who was imprisoned in the Chino State Prison for 42 days, has not already served the sentence imposed on him."

It was the first indication that the Swiss were potentially accepting arguments raised by Polanski's lawyers who claimed he was a victim of misconduct by now deceased Superior Court Judge Laurence Rittenband. The letter mentions Rittenband by name and said authorities wanted to know whether Rittenband had promised Polanski that his time undergoing a diagnostic study in prison would be his entire sentence. He had pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a 13-year-old girl.

The request was transmitted to the Justice Department, they said, on May 5, 2010.

Adding to the confusion, Swiss Justice Ministry spokesman Folco Galli had said on April 30 that his department wasn't interested in the testimony. "Such documents are irrelevant for the extradition proceedings," he had told the AP.

But the ministry said it then asked U.S. authorities for the transcript only days later because it was believed to contain evidence of paramount importance to the case.

Asked after Polanksi's release about what seemed to be an about-turn, the ministry declined to explain itself."and:
"District attorney's spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said prosecutors in Los Angeles were never notified of the request. She said the only contact from the Justice Department was a query asking for an explanation of what a conditional examination was."Had the L. A. prosecutors been informed, they could have easily turned over the information (which was completely irrelevant to any good faith extradition proceeding). The request for this information was just a ruse, unnecessary to the Pedoland determination. A phony request for unnecessary information cooked up in a conspiracy between pedophile interests in Pedoland and the U. S. Justice Department, serving as a front for the Jewish Entertainment Industrial Complex. The point of the exercise was to find a way to keep Roman out of the United States, and keep the Los Angeles prosecutors in the dark until it was too late. The whole trick turned on creating phony doubts about the original proceedings based on the nuttiest of the conspiracy theories of the defense, the alleged wrongdoing of the original judge, a theory presented by Polanski defenders without even a shred of evidence, and based on the legally wrong idea that a judge has to accept a plea bargain as presented to him.
at 7/15/2010 09:47:00 AM (http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2010/07/polanski-conspiracy.html)

Dawn Meredith
03-03-2013, 10:27 PM
I have no good feelings about this.

Polanski raped and buggered a child, and has somehow managed to portray himself as the victim.


As I saaid earlier I agree totally with Jan on this.


I was reading through this thread and one other to find the posts about The Ninth Gate as we watched it last night.

Not successful, but lots of other incredible stuff in this thread.

Jan said he had viewed this film several times in an attempt to understand the mind of Polanski.

(Something to that effect). His attraction to this dark world is something I would like to have him explain. I have read he was abused terribly in childhood.

Too many connections, none of them good...in this thread, I mean.

I am of the opinion that most serial killers have been created. Pre MK ULTRA such a person was rare. In fact off the top of my head I can only thnk of two, the Tx. Tower shooter and the killers made famous by the book and film In Cold Blood.

Over all I thought the film was interesting but the ending left me cold. She- "green eyes" -Polanski's real life wife was one of "them"- and "turned" the "hero"????

And yes, Dennis Hopper, full circle.

Dawn

R.K. Locke
02-02-2014, 09:08 PM
A post for those of you interested in synchromysticism/Jungian psychology, etc.


Yesterday the New York Times published this: http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-dylan-farrow/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0


This is a song that Dory Previn recorded in 1970. Listen carefully to the words:



http://youtu.be/objejWFsf1o



From the Wikipedia page on Dory Previn:

In 1968 André Previn had fully moved from composing film scores to conducting symphony orchestras, most notably the London Symphony Orchestra. While in London he began an affair with the then 23-year-old actress Mia Farrow, who was working on the film A Dandy in Aspic.[11] In 1969 Previn discovered that Farrow had become pregnant, compelling Previn to separate from her husband. Their divorce became final in July 1970. André Previn subsequently married Farrow.[5] This betrayal led to Previn being institutionalized again, where she was treated with electroconvulsive therapy.[12] This seemed to change her outlook as a songwriter, making her more introspective. She subsequently expressed her feelings regarding Farrow and the end of her marriage in the song "Beware of Young Girls" on her 1970 album On My Way to Where

In 1970 she signed as a solo artist with the Mediarts company founded by Alan Livingston and Nik Venet, and recorded her first album for 12 years, On My Way To Where.[5] Much of the album, which like several subsequent albums was produced by Venet, deals with her experiences in the late 1960s. "Mister Whisper" examines episodes of psychosis from within the confines of a psychiatric hospital, while "Beware of Young Girls" is a scathing attack on Mia Farrow and her motives for befriending the Previns (Farrow belatedly apologized to Dory in her memoir What Falls Away). The track "With My Daddy in the Attic" is a chilling piece dealing with Stockholm Syndrome and fantasies of incest.



From the Wikiepedia page on Mia Farrow:

In 1970, Farrow married the conductor/composer André Previn after having become pregnant by him while he was married to songwriter Dory Previn.[31] His former wife wrote a scathing song, entitled "Beware of Young Girls", about the loss of her husband to Farrow.[32] Farrow and Previn had three biological children (twins Matthew and Sascha, and Fletcher). In 1973 and 1976, respectively, they adopted Vietnamese infants Lark Song and Summer "Daisy" Song, followed by the adoption of Soon-Yi (born c. October 8, 1972)[33] from Korea around 1978. Soon-Yi's precise age and birth date are not known, but a bone scan estimated her age as being between 5 and 7 years old at the time of her adoption.[33] André and Mia divorced in 1979.[34]

In 1980, Farrow began seeing film director Woody Allen. During their relationship, Farrow starred in many of Allen's films, and several of her relatives also made appearances. Together they adopted Moses "Misha"[35] Farrow and Dylan Farrow. Dylan was known as "Eliza" for a while and later known as "Malone".[35] In 1987, Farrow gave birth to their son Satchel "Seamus"[35] O'Sullivan Farrow,[36] later known as Ronan Farrow. However, in a 2013 interview with Vanity Fair, Farrow stated that Ronan could "possibly" be the biological child of her first husband Frank Sinatra, with whom she claims to have "never really split up".[37]



Make of that what you will.

Magda Hassan
02-03-2014, 01:32 AM
A post for those of you interested in synchromysticism/Jungian psychology, etc.

Yesterday the New York Times published this: http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/an-open-letter-from-dylan-farrow/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

This is a song that Dory Previn recorded in 1970. Listen carefully to the words:


Yes! this is very interesting R.K....quite remarkable.
I was thinking of Polanski and Allen yesterday after reading her open letter on Kristof's blog. Talented men artistically, no question about that, but vile, manipulative and predatory men as well and that taints their work, for me at least it does. Can't imagine what it is like for their victims.

Lauren Johnson
02-03-2014, 04:01 AM
A post for those of you interested in synchromysticism/Jungian psychology, etc.

This is the key to your post RK, and I totally do not get to the connection between these betrayals of personhood with synchromysticism/Jungian psychology. (I am somewhat familiar with Jung's thought.)

Carsten Wiethoff
02-03-2014, 11:52 AM
https://archive.org/details/InterviewPeterLevenda

This is an 2009 interview with Peter Levenda regarding the connections between Polanski, Manson and other cases like the assassination of Robert Kennedy. Interesting details on Polanski's films "Rosemary's Baby" (Mia Farrow) and "Day of the Dolphins". Also some details on Sharon Tate's films, which may have had a connection to her murder.


I heard it recently for the first time and found it worth my time.

David Guyatt
02-03-2014, 12:52 PM
Curiously enough, I've been digging around in some of this today.

Firstly, occult output by record companies and their stars. I thought a really interesting Youtube talk by a guy called Max Devlin (personally I tend to steer clear from the word "illuminati" because of all the connotations associated with it). There is relevance here with Mia Farrow's Rosemary's baby etc:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=Di4rRJdVlAQ

Then I came across a Chris Spivey link on Aangirfan which I have hesitated posting here, but in the end have decided to do so with the usual warning about the speculative nature of the content - i.e., read it with caution. I have excised Spivey's lead in and just gone straight to the content. But firstly, I have lifted a couple of comments from the "reader's comments" section by a character going by the handle "Dogman" off the Spivey page as follows:


DogmanJAN 30, 2014 @ 21:52:01
Aleister Crowley — Initiated to the highest levels of Freemasonry and high priest of the Golden Dawn, said: “A white male child of perfect innocence and intelligence makes the most suitable victim.”
In the US each year 400,000 children are reported missing.
In the UK,98,000 children are reported missing.
Shockingly, Aleister Crowley’s famous saying, DO AS THOU WILT, actually came from Benjamin Franklin. Franklin was an occultist, Satanist and indulged in child sacrifice. Franklin attended the drunken, ritual orgies of a secret society called, among other things, the Hellfire Club. They would get drunk, dress prostitutes up like Nuns and have orgies in underground caves, which resembled Black Masses (although they “worshipped” pagan deities Bacchus and Venus).
The Marilyn Manson song “Misery Machine” contains the lyrics, “We’re gonna ride to the abbey of Thelema.” The Abbey of Thelema was the temple of Satanist Aleister Crowley.
“The energy of devils and angels is the same energy; it’s how you use it. It’s fuel. There is a saying: If you scare all your devils away, the angels will go away with them. You know, the halo and the horns are the same thing. I mean it’s OK to be spiritually horny – that’s what creative genius is all about. Geniuses don’t have time to think about how it’s going to be received… they don’t have time to think whether people like it or not, is it morally right, will God like it?” (Carlos Santana, Rolling Stone, magazine, March 16, 2000, p. 87).
One of the top songs of the 70′s was “Hotel California” by the Eagles. Most people have no idea the song refers to the Church of Satan, which happens to be located in a converted HOTEL on CALIFORNIA street! On the inside of the album cover, looking down on the festivities, is Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan and author of the Satanic Bible! People say, the Eagles aren’t serious, they’re just selling records. That’s what you think! The Eagles manager, Larry Salter, admitted in the Waco Tribune-Herald, (Feb. 28, 1982) that the Eagles were involved with the Church of Satan! Not surprisingly, one of the Eagle’s songs is titled “Have A Good Day in Hell.”
Bernie Taupin has collaborated with Elton John for over 38 years, writing most of his lyrics. Taupin has stated that Elton John’s “home is laden with trinkets and books relating to Satanism and witchcraft” (US, July 22, 1980, p. 42). Taupin admits that he decorates his walls with “satanic art” and has further declared that, “the occult fascinates me” (People, June 23, 1980). Many artists, like Elton John and Bernie Taupin, recognize the Devil’s hand in their success, and realize that their fans do not have a clue that they are being deceived by demons. Elton John has admitted that he is deceiving his fans, “Its all a big con,” and adds, “But as long as the public laps it up, I’m quite happy to
Jimmy Page of Zeppelin is a devout follower of Satanist, Aleister Crowley, who proclaimed himself as “The Beast 666.” In 1971, guitarist Jimmy Page bought Crowley’s Boleskine House on the shore of Loch Ness where Crowley practiced his Hellish, Satanic sex-magick rituals, including human sacrifices. Jimmy Page opened a bookshop venture for Occult books called “Equinox” at 4, Holland Street, Kensington, Londongo on giving it to them.” (Rolling Stone, July 15, 1976, p. 30).
***
Dogman
JAN 30, 2014 @ 03:46:54
It seems Joan Baez was the victim of Satanic Ritual Abuse as a child shortly after her father started working for the CIA at Cornell. I believe this is another piece of the larger puzzle as to why this horrendous abuse of children is happening on a global scale and why paedophile networks have infiltrated the highest corridors of power across the world. Politicians and leaders are being deliberately groomed, compromised and corrupted through this vile practise before they’re installed in power.
Read these lyrics:
PLAY ME BACKWARDS
(Written by Joan Baez, Wally Wilson, Kenny Greenberg & Karen O’Connor)
You don’t have to play me backwards
To get the meaning of my verse
You don’t have to die and go to hell
To feel the devil’s curse
Well I thought my life was a photograph
On the family Christmas card
Kids all dressed in buttons and bows
And lined up in the yard
Were the golden days of childhood
So lyrical and warm
Or did the picture start to fade
On the day that I was born
I’ve seen them light the candles
I’ve heard them bang the drum
And I’ve cried Mama, I’m cold as ice!
And I got no place to run
Let the night begin there’s a pop of skin
And the sudden rush of scarlet
There’s a little boy riding on a goat’s head
And a little girl playing the harlot
There’s a sacrifice in an empty church
Of sweet li’l baby Rose
And a man in a mask from Mexico
Is peeling off my clothes
I’ve seen them light the candles
I’ve heard them bang the drum
And I’ve cried Mama, I’m cold as ice!
And I got no place to run
So I’m paying for protection
Smoking out the truth
Chasing recollections
Nailing down the proof
You don’t have to play me backwards
To get the meaning of my verse
You don’t have to die and go to hell
To feel the devil’s curse
I’ll stand before your altar
And tell everything I know
I’ve come to claim my childhood
At the chapel of baby Rose
I’ve seen them light the candles
I’ve heard them bang the drum
I’ve seen them light the candles
I’ve heard them bang the drum

And then the main article content follows:


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From Chris Spivey (http://chrisspivey.org/the-whos-who-of-satanic-child-abuse/)

Lauren Johnson
02-04-2014, 05:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY44zvhWhp4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYmvFSmaATM

R.K. Locke
02-06-2014, 08:19 PM
A post for those of you interested in synchromysticism/Jungian psychology, etc.

This is the key to your post RK, and I totally do not get to the connection between these betrayals of personhood with synchromysticism/Jungian psychology. (I am somewhat familiar with Jung's thought.)


The link I am making is between the words of the song by Dory Previn and the events described by Dylan Farrow. The full lyrics are here:

http://songmeanings.com/songs/view/3530822107858661061/


She could of course simply be describing an experience of her own, but the similarities from one to the other are striking - right down to the fact that father plays the clarinet.


That is why I would see this as potentially a meaningful coincidence in the Jungian sense.


From the wikia.com page on synchromysticism:


Synchromysticism is a portmanteau of the words "synchronicity" and "mysticism." A Synchronicity is a coincidence with meaning which is usually far less likely to occur naturally than typical coincidences. An observance of synchronicity is often coupled with a recent moment of personal enlightenment or great insight. A shift in consciousness of perceived reality will usually determine ones ability to see an increased number of synchronicities.

The synchromystic world-view is that every-Thing in the universe is connected. All symbols have multiple layers of information, histories, and interpretations. Given enough time and information, eventually all symbols, themes and ideas will be found to contain information about all the others so that each piece of the puzzle becomes holographic in nature; meaning that by focusing on one idea, all others can potentially be expressed. If one is familiar with the Eastern philosophic idea that "all is One," then synchromysticism allows a person to prove it for themselves through active involvement with synchronicity not only in the media saturated world around them, but also in their personal lives. Synchromysticism can be used to decode meaning in situations where that meaning may not have been implied or even originally intended. It has also been used by some in an attempt to foresee future events.

R.K. Locke
02-06-2014, 08:24 PM
https://archive.org/details/InterviewPeterLevenda

This is an 2009 interview with Peter Levenda regarding the connections between Polanski, Manson and other cases like the assassination of Robert Kennedy. Interesting details on Polanski's films "Rosemary's Baby" (Mia Farrow) and "Day of the Dolphins". Also some details on Sharon Tate's films, which may have had a connection to her murder.


I heard it recently for the first time and found it worth my time.


This is one of the best Levenda interviews I have heard yet. Thanks for posting it.


Imagine trying to create a Mark Lombardi-style drawing of the connections between all of the people in this particular milieu. The mind boggles just thinking about it.

Lauren Johnson
02-06-2014, 08:43 PM
Thanks RKL. Now I get it.

A couple of more links on Woody Allen vs. Dylan Farrow: Don't Listen to Woody Allen's Biggest Defende (http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2014/02/woody_allen_s_biggest_defender_robert_weide_s_atta ck_on_mia_farrow_and_her.html)r and Woody Allen vs. Dylan Farrow (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/02/woody_allen_v_dylan_farrow_the_court_of_public_opi nion_is_now_in_session.html).

Magda Hassan
02-06-2014, 09:20 PM
A couple of more links on Woody Allen vs. Dylan Farrow: Don't Listen to Woody Allen's Biggest Defende (http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2014/02/woody_allen_s_biggest_defender_robert_weide_s_atta ck_on_mia_farrow_and_her.html)r and Woody Allen vs. Dylan Farrow (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/02/woody_allen_v_dylan_farrow_the_court_of_public_opi nion_is_now_in_session.html).

http://thenewinquiry.com/blogs/zunguzungu/woody-allens-good-name/

R.K. Locke
05-31-2015, 06:26 PM
This is an interesting discussion:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HF6FXODxQg

R.K. Locke
02-19-2016, 10:05 PM
James M. Rothstein on The Opperman Report; touches on Son of Sam, Manson, MKULTRA and more:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aYa4NTZosA



Shame that it cuts out so suddenly at the end. Hopefully there will be more of this uploaded at some point.

R.K. Locke
02-21-2016, 11:29 AM
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