View Full Version : Interview with Peter Levenda October 9, 2009 Sinister Forces

Magda Hassan
10-20-2009, 02:14 AM
interview w/ peter levenda of 'sinister forces' (October 9, 2009)

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media monarchy: interview w/ peter levenda of 'sinister forces'

for the last couple of years, the three volume set of 'sinister forces: a grimoire of american political witchcraft' has always been within arm's reach. i've learned that whenever something in the news has reverberations back through the history/mystery of 20th century america, i can just jump to the indices & start to see some of the dots connect...

during the last weekend of september '09, there was a strange confluence of news stories concerning the death of a manson family murderer, the revelations about disturbing sexcrimes in the occult california music scene & then the seemingly sudden arrest of roman polanski for his own infamous sexcrime.

now the polanski polemic, as i've called it, has become perfect fodder for the culture wars: it's middle america vs hollywood. and while the average person may know the water cooler talking points, most of these discussions are long on moralizing & short on the shadowy substance... those "names to conjure with", the "dates that have resonance" & the things "that scream out for an explanation where none can be provided."

one of the most incredible examples: on june 5, 1968, roman polanski & sharon tate attended a dinner party at director john frankenheimer's house where the guest of honor would have his last supper. that guest was robert francis kennedy & he was driven to the ambassador hotel later that night by the director of 'the manchurian candidate'... and, did you know that polanski had john phillips, of the mamas & the papas, investigated for his possible involvement in the murder of sharon tate? ... add to this mix squeaky fromme, scientology, robert evans, west virginia, aleister crowley, disneyland, and of course, the specter that haunts this american house: charles manson.

when i began to see these red flags, i immediately reached out to our guest & author of the amazing 'sinister forces': peter levenda. he has written numerous other books on our hidden history, like his recent 'secret temple: masons, mysteries & the founding of america'. levenda is an authority on these subjects & has also been featured in numerous documentaries concerning the 'unholy alliance' of nazis, the occult & US.

this latest special interview episode from media monarchy - the ninth one, appropriately enough - is a quick, yet fascinating look behind the media mask... behind they face that they present & a glimpse into what it really represents... all this & so much more - just in time for crowley's birthday, the bombing of the moon & halloween.

(featuring intro/outro music by charles manson/beach boys & bed music by bill laswell)

This audio is part of the collection: Open Source Audio (http://www.archive.org/details/opensource_audio)

Artist/Composer: media monarchy (http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22media%20monarchy%22)
Date: 2009-10-09
Source: mediamonarchy.com

Keith Millea
10-20-2009, 05:42 PM
Thanks for that Magda.Great interview!I also like the Mediamonarchy page.Many links to other media formats....:tee:

Jan Klimkowski
10-20-2009, 08:35 PM
Peter Levenda is very good. Shame about the interviewer, who frequently tosses in red herrings....

Some interesting info about Manson and Scientology, including the claim that Manson's auditor later became a "friend" of Manson Family member, Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme. Fromme of course later achieved additional notoriety as the manchurian patsy failed assassin of President Gerald Ford.


According to Bugliosi (I know, I know, but his source appears to be prison records so the info may be accurate):

From HELTER SKELTER by Vincent T. Bugliosi:

A staff evaluation written in 1961 mentions that

Manson gave as his claimed religion `Scientologist,' stating that he `has never settled upon a religious formula for his beliefs and is presently seeking an answer to his question in the new mental health cult known as Scientology.'

Scientology, an outgrowth of science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics, was just coming into vogue at this time. Manson's teacher, i.e. `auditor', was another convict, Lanier Rayner. Manson would later claim that while in prison he achieved Scientology's highest level, `theta clear'. (ep. 240)

Meanwhile, according to the, ahem, Church of Scientology:

From a Scientology compliance report investigating Manson's possible involvement in Scientology in the wake of the Tate-LaBianca murders. (These were part of documents seized by the FBI from the Church of Scientology in 1977 and subsequently made available through the Freedom of Information act):

GS-C Comm GS-G 22 June 70 D/G Intell U.S.



There have been numerous new developments on this case and they are as follows.

An individual by the name of Steve Grogen appeared on our lines (PM). I received word that he had made statements that he was a member of Mansons family and therefore started some intell. action, which at first consisted of talking to the girls he had been in contact with. By the time I had finished talking to them Grogen had been put away in jail for car theft. In spite of numerous efforts on our part it was impossible to get together with him. I had the girl he seemed to be most in comm with, journey out to the valley on four different occasions to talk to him and in spite of our best efforts he was never made available. He was either "in court" or the jail was undergoing extensive re- decoration. Of course we did not want it known that a member of The Church was trying to see him. At the same time this was going on we received word that two members of the Manson Family "squeeky Frome" and "Sandy Goode" were staying at the Viking Motel on 3rd and Alverado which is in close proximity to the org. We made no efforts to contactthem.

On 18 June 80 the following report was received by me.

Report of interview with Raul Morales, Re: Charles Manson.

According to Raul: Raul arrived in prison on McNeil Island, Washington in 1962 and became a cell mate of Lafayette Raimer allegedly a trained Scientology auditor (about Level I in Raul's estimation) and was introduced to Scientology at that time. Raimer was auditing in prison at that time and in one 10 man cell had managed to gather a group of about 7, all in Scientology. Charles Manson entered later and studied, did TRO etc. along with his cell-mates and received approximately 150 hours of auditing from Raimer. Processes used were CCH's, Help processes (Who have you helped-Who have you not helped) and other Dichotomy processes (Rauls terms, such as What can you confront, what would you rather not confront), Havingness (Such as "What can you have?" "Look around and find something you can have. Look around and find something you're not in." Rainer kept recor records of his auditing. Manson got super-energetic & flipped out when he'd been audited and would, for a time, talk about nothing but Scientology to the extent that people avoided his company. After a while, however, Manson was screaming to get away from his auditor (in Raul's opinion, he'd been severely over-run or something). He eventually managed to get put in solitary confi- nement to get away from his auditor. Eventually prison officials got suspicious of the groups strange activities and broke up the group. Subsequently, Raul was released from the prison in 1965. Raimer's wife was in training here at the L.A. Org in 1965-66; she had disconnected from Raimer. Raul just found out yesterday that another friend, Marvin White, later sent Manson books (after the Scientology group was broken up) on hypnotism and black magic,


So, Lanier Rayner? Or Lafayette Raimer? My suspicion is that the former is the correct form, and the latter is a misspelling based on oral intelligence recieved by the Scientologists. I can't immediately find any reference to the involvement of such a person with Fromme, but it would be provocative.

Levenda also mentions that, whilst in prison, after becoming a "Theta clear", Manson begged to be separated from his auditor, which is also suggested in the material above. Charlie Manson in too deep..... :bandit:

Plus, of course, there are the Manson Family members Bruce Davis and Charles "Tex" Watson connections to Scientology's bastard sprogs, The Process Church of the Final Judgement, and to Scientology in the UK. And those "unofficial" Manson Family murders....

The Bug again:

On November 21, 1969, the bodies of James Sharp, fiften, and Dorren
Gaul, nineteen, were found in an alley in downtown Los Angeles. The
two teen-agers had been killed elsewhere with a long-bladed kniife or
bayonet, then dumped there. Each had been stabbed over fifty times.

Ramparts division Leiutenant Earl Deemer investigated the Sharp-Gaul
murders, as did Los Angeles Times reporter Cohen. Although the two men
felt there was a good possibility that a Familty member was involved
in the slayings, the murders remain unsolved.

Both James Sharp and Doreen Gaul were Scientologists, the latter a
Scientology "clear" who had been residing in a Church of Scientology
house. According to unconfirmed reports, Doreen Gaul was a former girl
friend of Manson Family member Bruce Davis, himself an

Davis' whereabouts at the times of the murders of Sharp, Gaul and Jane
Doe 59 are not known. He disappeared shortly after being questioned in
connection with the death of Zero.

On December 1, 1969, Joel Dean Pugh, husband of Family member Sandy
Good, was found with his throat slit in a London hotel room. As noted,
local police ruled the death a suicide. On learning of Pugh's demise,
Inyo County DA Frank Fowles made official inquiries, specifically
asking Interpol to check visas to detrmine if one Bruce Davis was in
England at the time.

Scotland Yard replied as follows: "It has been established that Davis
is recorded as embarking at London airport for the United States of
America on 25th April 1969 while holding United States passport 612
2568. At this time he gave his address as Dormer Cottage, Felbridge,
Surrey. This address is owned by the Scientology Movement and houses
followers of this organization."

-- HELTER SKELTER by Vincent T. Bugliosi, page 647


Helen Reyes
11-18-2009, 03:06 PM
Good interview, listened to it multiple times now. The interviewer doesn't seem to be throwing red herrings in to me, he just seems significantly younger than Levenda and not really sure what's significant and what's not.

Maybe someone can help me out a little here. I've been listening to Levenda interviews and reading them all over the place, and downloaded his free excerpts from Sinister Forces Vol One The Nine as a pdf from sinisterforces.info, but I can't find the names of more than half the Nine. This is what I've got so far:

Dec 31, 1952 Seance with Dr. Vinod

The Nine: Astor, DuPont, Forbes families (and Bronfmon?); 1. Arthur Middleton Young 2. Andrija Puharich 3. Ruth Forbes Paine Young (husband Arthur Young) 4. Alice Astor (Bouverie) 5. Marcella DuPont 6. Mary Astor? 7. Michael Paine? 8. John Treat Williams?

Thanks for any help. Also, wasn't the helicopter basically stolen Nazi tech? And Ampex tape, which somebody involved in the Puharich projects used rather exclusively before it was widely available...

PS Didn't the John Profumo affair Levenda talks about actually involve L. Ron Hubbard trying to sell a minister's pillow talk to the KGB, or was that later? I believe Hubbard became persona non grata in the UK following that. And that reminds me, is there any evidence Ingo Swann was a scientologist OT?

Jan Klimkowski
11-18-2009, 07:02 PM
On p244 of Vol 1, Levenda lists a gathering of The Nine:

Henry Jackson
Georgia Jackson
Alice Bouverie
Marcella Du Pont
Carl Betz
Vonnie Beck
Arthur Young
Ruth Young
Andrija Puharich

With Dr Vinod acting as medium.

The interviewer doesn't seem to be throwing red herrings in to me, he just seems significantly younger than Levenda and not really sure what's significant and what's not.

Fair enough. My use of "red herring" may be inappropriate. I do suspect it was the interviewer's lack of knowledge rather than deliberate misdirection.

That said, it's the very inability of the interviewer to distinguish between significant and insignificant that so irritated me.

It would have been wonderful to hear Levenda interviewed by the late and much lamented Mae Brussell.

Or Mae Brussell by John Judge.

PS Didn't the John Profumo affair Levenda talks about actually involve L. Ron Hubbard trying to sell a minister's pillow talk to the KGB, or was that later? I believe Hubbard became persona non grata in the UK following that. And that reminds me, is there any evidence Ingo Swann was a scientologist OT?

I believe there are Profumo and Scientology links. Linda Minor may very well have posted some of the evidence.

I'm told that Swann was an Operant Thetan of very high grade. As were other "pioneer" remote viewers. Indeed, it's been claimed that they were NSA assets sent to steal the "high secrets" of the Church of Scientology. :call2:

Jan Klimkowski
11-18-2009, 07:18 PM
The link below is to a site which attempts to construct a history of the relationship between remote viewing and Operating Thetan level scientology, ie L Ron Hubbard's inner sanctum.

It is clearly not entirely reliable. However, individual elements within the whole may contain some truth.


Jan Klimkowski
11-18-2009, 07:23 PM
A related document, presumably from the same source, regarding self-proclaimed remote viewer, and limited hangout asset, Major Ed Dames.

CIA-Scientology Conspiracy:Remote Viewing Ed Dames

It was a balmy August/September-cusp night, and the Art Bell

Coast-to-Coast show--the Number One overnight talk show in major markets across the nation, including New York and Los Angeles--was, as usual, holding its listeners enthralled.

From long-haul truckers to long-hair intellectuals, the millions who make up Art's eclectic collection of devoted, insomniac fans were welded to their radios as Art interviewed a guest who seems to be a favorite with the wide-spectrum audience.

But on this particular night, something odd happened. Of course, saying "something odd" happened on the Art Bell show is like saying something edible was found in a supermarket. But even for Art's show, this was something that-- Well, read on.

The guest was "remote viewer" and former(?) CIA officer Major Ed Dames, founder of PSI Tech--a for-profit company specializing in "remote viewing."

[Editor's note: We put that (?) in there because, as one wag once put it, "the only 'former' spook is a dead spook.

" Being neither former spooks nor dead, we wouldn't know.]

Dames claims that by using the "remote viewing" technology he exported with him from CIA, he is able to perform super-human feats of perception, both in space and in time, and can teach others to do the same--for a price.

One basis for his popularity is the uncanny accuracy of some of his remote-viewed predictions about world events. And what, you might ask, does all this have to do with Scientology's Church of Spiritual Technology (CST) - the powerful corporation that controls all of Scientology, and which is embroiled in the $190-million libel suit Veritas is covering? Well, you'll have to get there by the same route we did. If you're rash and reckless enough to follow along...

On the night in question, things didn't go quite as they usually do with Major Ed Dames. There was a wrinkle in the fabric of space and time, a wrinkle that, apparently, he hadn't "remote viewed" as looming in his own future.

Oh, there were the usual questions by fax and phone from listeners who wanted to know more about remote viewing, and discussions about cataclysms and catastrophes that Dames sees lurking in the future for us mortals here on earth. And Major Ed handled them with his usual glib aplomb. Art was conducting a friendly, interested interview, and Major Ed had lots of intriguing tidbits to share.

But then, a seemingly incongruous question from Art: "You never did anything on L. Ron Hubbard, did you?"

A heartbeat. Major Ed, flatly: "No."

Why Art asked the question at all, we don't know. But it didn't seem to go over very well with the Major; there was an edge. Art accepted the answer at face value, and that would have been that. Would have been--except for a pesky fold-back on that bothersome wrinkle in space-time...


As the next break neared, Major Ed confided to Art something about personal "anchor points" that he, Dames, uses in his remote viewing, and the beginnings of a warp seemed to materialize, just for a moment. But it was only after the news break, after the usual spate of survivalist-gear and natural-remedy ads, that the weird warp appeared, wavered, flickered, and then formed fully in the late-night radio waves:

ART BELL: Ed, are you there?

ED DAMES: I'm here.

ART BELL: All right, here's a pretty rough fax, and let's
see how you handle it, all right?


ART BELL: (reading): "Art, Ed Dames knows damn well that
Hal Puthoff, Ingo Swann and Pat Price--all key players in the
remote viewing program--were Scientologists, and that the
military intelligence community were dogging L. Ron Hubbard
for decades. Remote viewing came from Hubbard's discoveries
and Dames KNOWS IT"--underlined. "Why did he lie or
'play dumb' when you mentioned Hubbard? For instance, the
term 'anchor points' is ONLY a Hubbard discovery"--"only"
underlined. Any comment?

ED DAMES: Bunk. All bunk.

ART BELL: All bunk?

ED DAMES: Yep. Every single bit of that is bunk.

ART BELL: Okay--

ED DAMES: And, by the way, if there's anybody out there with
a voice stress analyzer or any other type of lie machine (sic), put
it on! And I'll say it again: it's bunk! Total bunk.

My, my, but the smooth and suave Major Ed suddenly sounded downright testy! We thought that perhaps the Major didth protesteth too much. He almost sounded like Clinton denying having sexual relations with Monica. And so we decided to step through that odd, warped little wrinkle that had appeared in space-time. And what did we find? Well, as Art Bell might say: "Oh-h-h-h, my!"


Whatta' warp! Welcome to what Canadian writer Kady O'Malley has dubbed "Planet Veritas," where the strangest things find a way of coming together, like some alien, sci-fi Wonderland.

We started out innocently following a white-rabbit story about a $190-million libel suit involving Scientology's secretive--but most powerful--corporation, the Church of Spiritual Technology (CST).

So far, our wide-eyed wanderings through the endlessly-connecting corridors leading off from that lawsuit have taken us to places we never imagined. We found connecting crawlways to IRS. We found hidden passageways to Congressional Committees. We found buried treasure troves of hard evidence supporting Plaintiffs' allegations of fraud. We found a dumpy, hidden little P.O. box as the "primary business address" for the most powerful corporation in all of Scientologydom. We found an "L. Ron Hubbard Library" that exists only on paper. We found a Chart of Power that, for the first time, laid out exactly how CST secretly weilded power over all of Scientology. But no matter where we turned, all corridors led somehow, ultimately, back to CST. And then, in the unlikeliest place of all, on the Art Bell show, we found this little weird warp that said "Open Me," and there, lo-and-behold, was the CIA--linked up to a bevy of "former Scientologists" (anything like "former spooks"?), and to mental technologies that trace directly back to the copyrighted works of L. Ron Hubbard. And those works are now owned by--guess who.

If you said "CST," you just might want to apply for permanent citizenship on Planet Veritas.


No, Major Ed, not bunk. Hal Puthoff was *INDEED* a key player in the CIA's Remote Viewing Program. In fact, Major (and Art--are *you* tuned in?), Hal Puthoff was the HEAD of that program--at Stanford Research Institute (SRI)--from 1972 to 1985. [Editor's note: 1972 is the year in which L. Ron Hubbard mysteriously disappeard for ten months, accompanied only by a former Green Beret and a male nurse--a developing story soon to appear here in the pages of Veritas.]

And, yes, Major Ed, Hal Puthoff was *INDEED* a Scientologist when he entered the CIA-spawned Remote-Viewing Program. In fact, Puthoff had only recently completed Scientology's super-secret "Operating Thetan, Level III" (OT III), placing him in the rarified inner circles of Scientology's "Advanced Technology" knowledge.

But there's more: prior to entering Scientology in the late '60's and working his way up through the ranks to access Scientology's secret levels, Puthoff had been with the National Security Administration (NSA). [Editor's note: Like Major Ed, it looks like we have another "former spook" here, but this one going almost directly from Scientology's secret levels straight into CIA's Remote Viewing Program--which bears an uncanny resemblance to parts of Scientology itself!]

We've also found and interviewed two people who were in Scientology in Los Angeles in the early '70's, and who personally knew Puthoff when he was there.

(For those wanting to know more about Puthoff and his connections, we suggest you start at http://www.io.com/~hambone/web/puthoff.html. That's a brief bio on Puthoff, with numerous links to other information on him, and on the Remote Viewing Program and its players.)

So, no, Major Ed: THAT part of the fax that Art Bell read certainly wasn't "bunk." And you said, "Every single bit of that is bunk." Oops. Well, then, how about the rest of it?

Let's take Ingo Swann.

Ingo Swann was a pioneer in the CIA's Remote Viewing Project WITH Hal Puthoff. In fact, they are the team who were in at its outset. And, surprise, surprise: Swann was a Scientology OT VII--which, at the time, was the highest secret level attainable in Scientology!

We even found and interviewed someone who had once helped set up Ingo Swann's art exhibits for him at Scientology's Celebrity Centre in Los Angeles, on West 8th Street.

But, Ed, here's what REALLY surprised us. Look what we found in YOUR OWN press release, entitled "Ed Dames Sets the Record Straight."

"Ingo Swann, under the direction of Dr. Harold Puthoff at SRI, realized a breakthrough, i.e., he developed an accurate model of how the collective unconscious communicates (target) information to conscious awareness. Swann believed that the ability to remote view, like language, is an innate faculty--a birthright--but must be learned to be effective. Swann's model provided a rigid set of instructions which theoretically allowed anyone to actually be trained to produce accurate, detailed target data. To test the model, the Army sent Major Dames and five others to Swann as a prototype trainee group.

"The results were more than anyone, even Swann, had anticipated. In six months, Major Dames' (sic) team members were producing psychically derived data with more consistency and accuracy than the most renown natural (untrained) psychics alive."

Are we supposed to believe, Major Ed, that you never knew anything about Ingo Swann's high-level involvement in Scientology? Or Hal Puthoff's? [Editor's note: Well, even Monica Lewinsky was able to get a top-secret clearance. Guess things are pretty sloppy with those "intelligence" boys these days. Budget cut-backs?]

Or were you, Major Ed, just cut out of the "need to know" loop regarding Swann's "OT VII" rating? Could be. If that's the case, maybe we here at Veritas ought to let you in on something else about Swann: his OWN intelligence background, his own TOP SECRET clearance with the military PRIOR to getting access to Scientology's secret upper levels.

That's right, Major Ed: there's yet another "former spook" in the woodpile.

(For those wanting to know learn more about Ingo Swann and his connections, we suggest you start at http://www.io.com/~hambone/web/swann.html.)

Two strikes, Major Ed. So what about Pat Price?

It's quite curious that Pat Price, who has been described as being "widely considered to be the best of the remote viewers," was a Scientology OT IV, and was very instrumental in the early success of the CIA's Remote Viewing Project. An unconfirmed report says that Price went on from there to work directly for the CIA, with one Ken Kress as his handler. Then when Price decided to return to SRI, he stopped over in Las Vegas, and died of a purported heart attack in his hotel room. There was no autopsy peformed, allegedly due to the persuasion of an unknown individual with a briefcase full of Price's medical records.

(For those wanting to know learn more about Pat Price and his connections, we suggest you start at http://www.io.com/~hambone/web/price.html.)

But you don't know anything about any of this, do you, Major Ed? No, you said-- Let's see, what were your words? Oh, yes--"bunk," you called it. Is that correct? Yes, that's what you said: "Bunk."

The only slight problem is that Veritas has inarguably, uncontestably, and verifiably confirmed that Puthoff, Swann, and Price all WERE key players in the CIA's Remote Viewing Program, and that they all WERE high-level Scientologists when they entered that program at its inception.

Two of those Scientologists--Puthoff and Swann--had intelligence backgrounds BEFORE they penetrated Scientology's super-secret "OT Levels," then turned right around and set up the Remote Viewing Program for CIA. Probably just coincidence, right Major Ed?

Just to tie the bundle up with a neat ribbon (and 14 Scientology "Clears"), here's a quote from "The Constantine Report":

"Many of the SRI [Stanford Research Institute--where the early remote viewing program was originally set up] 'empaths' were mustered from L. Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology. Harold Puthoff, the Institute's senior researcher, is a leading Scientologist. Two 'remote viewers' from SRI have also held rank in the Church: Ingo Swann, a Class VII Operating Thetan, a founder of the Scientology [Celebrity] Center in Los Angeles, and the late Pat Price. Puthoff['s]...lab assistant was a Scientologist married to a minister of the church. When Swann joined SRI, he stated openly that fourteen 'Clears' participated in the experiments."

Unfortunately, Major Ed, that's strike three. You ought to be outta here. But we haven't even GOTTEN to the "anchor points" part yet!


Where else would Ed Dames have learned about "anchor points?" Of course, Major Ed swore on national radio that the claim about "anchor points" being an L. Ron Hubbard discovery was-- Let's see, what were his words? Oh, yes. He called it "bunk." In fact, Major Ed said, "Every single bit of that is bunk."

So we, being frustratingly from Planet Veritas, of course had to check it out--thoroughly. And here is what we found.

First, we learned that there are at least 706 references to the term "anchor points" in the body of L. Ron Hubbard's works. Second, we found that Hubbard's use of the term dates back at least as early as 4 December 1952--predating the CIA's Remote Viewing Program by 20 years--in a lecture where he defined the term:

"[A]n anchor point is that point which origin 'I' assigns so that he can have dimension and motion. ...[T]hese anchor points actually assign dimension or boundary to space. ...Whenever there is motion, one holds the anchor point and perceives the motion. It's very simple. He also perceives the anchor point, holds and perceives the anchor point and then sees something changing without those anchor points moving."
L. Ron Hubbard
Taped lecture, "Spacation: Anchor Points, Origin"
Philadelphia Doctorate Course
4 December 1952

We then searched in vain for any earlier mention of "anchor points," anywhere at all, in any literature having anything whatsoever to do with the mind or things spiritual. Zero. Zip. Nada, Major Ed.

Other Hubbard references to "anchor points" go hand-in-hand with Ed Dames's "Technical Remote Viewing" technology, which includes locating and viewing objects and events that are distant from the viewer in space and time. For instance:

"Space is a viewpoint of dimension. The points which mark an area of space are called anchor points, and these, with the viewpoint, alone are responsible for space. ...The essential in any object is the space which it occupies. Thus, the ability to be an object first depends upon the ability to be the space which it occupies."
L. Ron Hubbard
The Journal of Scientology, Issue 14-G,
c. late April 1953

And how about the very concept of "remote"--as in distant from, or away from, one's physical location--and the concept of "anchor points":

"It is usually better to run things away from the body, as this has the effect of putting out anchor points. ...Thus these concepts should be run at a distance from the body."
L. Ron Hubbard
Professional Auditor's Bulletin No. 2
c. end May 1953

Bunk, huh, Major Ed? Hmmm.


Major Ed Dames sells CIA-developed "Technical Remote Viewing" through his company, PSI Tech. His 9-day courses once sold for--as he put it--"Forty-five hundred dollars ($4,500.00) a pop." Estimated revenues from that mount into the millions. Now he hawks sets of videotapes, the full set selling for $299.90. Given Dames's own current estimate of 10,000 students, that alone rounds out to a cool $3-million.

Major Ed freely--if arrogantly--admits in one of his own video tapes that "tax dollars paid for the research."

We'll let others consider the ethics of personal fortunes being made off of CIA-funded programs by "former" intelligence officers. We wondered how much Scientology was contained in that multi-million-dollar enterprise. So we looked into it.

In addition to the incontrovertible "anchor points" technology, we found other interesting references in some of Ed Dames's video tapes.

In one "module" (as he markets them), Dames is overseeing a student's remote viewing "session." Dames instructs her to "Go through all those diminsion points."

"Dimension points?" Anything like "anchor points?"

Checking our sources, we learned that there were at least 110 references in L. Ron Hubbard's works to "dimension points," and that these "dimension points" are central to Scientology's concept of the universe--particularly (pun intended) as it relates to time. In fact, the term "dimension points" is one of the most important themes in L. Ron Hubbard's seminal work called "The Factors," which he signed: "Humbly tendered as a gift to Man by L.Ron Hubbard, April 23, 1953."

Dames's CIA-created version of remote viewing includes claims of being able to "remote view" people, objects, places and events in past, present, and future, and obviously includes "dimension points" in the process. So let's look at a few selections from "The Factors" in relationship to such forms, to viewing, and to time:

"[T]he many viewpoints, interacting, become dependent upon one another's forms and do not choose to distinguish completely the ownership of dimension points, and so comes about a dependency upon the dimension points and upon the other viewpoints. ...From this comes a consistency of viewpoint of the interaction of dimension points and this, regulated, is TIME."
L. Ron Hubbard
"The Factors"
23 April 1953

So important did Hubbard consider "dimension points" and "viewpoints' that he says:

"The resolution of any problem posed hereby is the establishment of viewpoints and dimension points, the betterment of condition and concourse amongst dimension points, and, thereby, viewpoints... ."
L. Ron Hubbard
"The Factors"
23 April 1953

But the Scientology connections don't stop there. In the same "module," when the student has made a comment about the remote viewing session being a little rough, Dames laughs and says, "Wait till I put you in the center of the sun."



How many times have YOU heard someone say they would "put you in the center of the sun"? Not often, we'd guess. The only small problem we see with with CIA's Major Ed using this particular language is that it comes almost verbatim out of a famous Scientology "OT"-type process called "Grand Tour," which was developed and released by L. Ron Hubbard at least as early as 1954.

In a lecture given on 10 October 1954, entitled "Route 1, Step 9," L. Ron Hubbard is describing his "Grand Tour" process to Scientology students:

"So we say, 'Be near Earth. Be near the Moon. Be near the Sun. Be near Earth.' And we could keep on doing this, and would keep on doing this for some time. ...And you'll find out that he will start doing it much more rapidly than he was doing it before."

If that doesn't describe what the term "remote viewing" conjures up, we don't know what would. And though Hubbard starts his "Grand Tour" process putting people "near' these heavenly bodies, he soon, in the same lecture, graduates up to putting the subject IN them:

"So you want him to be 'Center of Earth. Outside Earth. Inside Earth. Outside Earth. Inside Earth. Outside Earth. Inside Earth. Outside Earth. Eight anchor points and pull them in. Eight anchor points and pull them in. Eight anchor points and pull them in. Inside the Moon. Outside the Moon. Inside the Moon. Outside the Moon. Inside the Moon. Outside of the Moon. Eight anchor points and pull them in. Eight anchor points and pull them in. Eight anchor points and pull them in. Inside the Sun. Outside the Sun. Inside the Sun. Outside the Sun.'"

Need we go on?

Oh, Major Ed--look! There are those pesky "anchor points" again.

"Bunk," huh? Right, Major Ed.

(Say, Art Bell--would this be worth an, "Oh-h-h-h, my"? We just love it when you do that.)


The Church of Spiritual Technology--doing business as the "L. Ron Hubbard Library," and currently the defendant in the $190-million libel suit that we set out several centuries ago (in Planet Veritas time) to cover--owns all the copyrights to all of L. Ron Hubbard's works. Anchor points. Dimension points. "The Grand Tour." The works.

That's the same Church of Spiritual Technology who has weird ties to IRS, leading to the tax-exempt status which helped get them ownership of those copyrights.

That's the same Church of Spiritual Technology that is defendant in a libel suit whose judge has ties to government intelligence-agency oversight commitees.

That's the same Church of Spiritual Technology who has spent, or allowed to be spent, countless millions of dollars tracking down and prosecuting--some would say "persecuting"--people that they scathingly describe as "copyright terrorists"--which means, as well as we can determine, people who use or distribute CST-owned copyrighted material improperly or without a license. Of course, CST--who, like the proverbial elephant with red-painted toenails hiding in a cherry tree, is always trying to remain invisible--hasn't been SEEN going after their nemesis "copyright terrorists." They use their yard-dog, the Religious Technology Center (RTC), to do the down-and-dirty courtroom ankle-gnawing. But RTC is just another licensee of the Church of Spiritual Technology, and so is merely fronting for the real copyright owners--CST.

So why is CIA's Major Ed Dames allowed to rake in millions using technology that demonstrably derives from these copyrighted materials, while CST sits by quietly?

Why did the CIA use Scientology OTs to create remote viewing?

How did "former" intelligence people like Puthoff and Swann get onto the Scientology OT Levels in the first place--since Hubbard had forbidden such people to be allowed on Scientology courses?


Major Ed Dames created his money-making venture using technology that HE claims was developed by the CIA in research (using millions of tax dollars), and in which he was the Training and Operations Officer for "a new psychic intelligence community."

Well, we think that's just ducky.

Yet he vigorously denies that Hal Puthoff, Ingo Swann, and Pat Price were Scientologists; he vigorously denies that they were key players in the development of "remote viewing;" and he vigorously denies that "anchor points" are a discovery of L. Ron Hubbard.

Well, we say, "bunk" to your denials, Major Ed.

We think you have a damn good reason for trying to downplay and hide the Scientology-CIA-remote-viewing connections.

We think there's a damn good reason why Puthoff and Swann had intelligence backgrounds before getting into Scientology.

We think there's a damn good reason why they had no sooner reached the secret upper levels of Scientology, than they were back under the wing of CIA developing remote viewing for the "new psychic intelligence community."

We think there's a damn good reason why psychiatrist Dr. Louis Jolyn "Jolly" West--a brainwashing specialist with CIA ties going back to the early '50's, when L. Ron Hubbard first exposed government brainwashing techniques and mind-control experiments--was also connected with the CIA's Remote Viewing Program.

We think there's a damn good reason why the judge in the instant case involving CST--Judge Frances Rothschild--has well-documented ties both to IRS/Treasury, and to Intelligence Oversight committees in the federal government, and why Rothschild got put onto the case through the expedient of the first judge recusing herself.

We think there's a damn good reason why CST was co-founded by a former Assistant to the Commissioner of IRS, who just happened to be there at IRS while an IRS employee was feeding government documents to senior Scientology officials--which ultimately got those officials jailed, and made it possible for CST to get possession of all the copyrights containing the technology that CIA appropriated for its own use.

And we think any effort to cover all this stinking rot up is BUNK, Major Ed. Or worse.

We think the evidence of connections between federal government agencies and CST is now overwhelming, Major Ed, and that only a real idiot could ignore it. We think that there's even a possibility that Dr. "Jolly" West helped mix Scientology technology with Jungian psychology so that it could be slickly packaged up and sold off as "remote viewing" to the gullible public--pretending that it's exactly what the government is using (yeah, right), while, in fact, CIA (and DIA, and NSA, and the alphabet soup group) keep the real stuff for themselves.

We also think that CST is packaging altered versions of the original Hubbard works, and selling those off disguised as the real thing, too.

But that's just what WE think, Major Ed. What do YOU think?

Oh, that's right. We remember now. You say it's all "bunk." And you wouldn't lie, would you Major Ed? Why, hell--you're a "former" United States intelligence officer.

Using the RealPlayer, you can hear the full Art Bell August 31/September 1 interview with Major Ed Dames at:


The full program is nearly five hours long. Here are some approximate time markers for relevant sections:

Art Bell asks about L. Ron Hubbard: 03:43:25
Dames mentions "anchor points": 03:50:09
Art Bell reads the fax to Ed Dames: 04:07:00



Jan Klimkowski
11-18-2009, 08:56 PM
I've long assumed that the claims that L Ron Hubbard was privy to secret esoteric knowledge, which was then further developed by his most intutive or "psychic" disciples - aka the Operant Thetans (allegedly including Ingo Swann et al) - were based on the occult history sketched, for example, here:

What Grant is speaking of is a form of ritual magic(k) practiced by such groups as the Golden Dawn, and the Ordo Templi Orientis(O.T.O.). "Sigils" are line drawings and diagrams that serve as signatures of entities accessible to a trained magician familiar with "Enochian calls" and other methods of summoning "spirits". A grimoire is a directory of such sigils, and a manual for their use.
A noted disciple of Crowley's, Jack Parsons — one time head of the California branch of the O.T.O., and renowned rocket scientist — carried on this tradition of interdimensional contact when, in 1946 — with the aid of "Frater H." — he made contact with some sort of entities not at all unlike Crowley's "Lam". This all took place during a series of magic rituals deemed the Babalon Workings. What makes this story all the more bizarre is that Parson's accomplice in this endeavor — the aforementioned Frater H. — became more commonly known afterwards as the charismatic cult leader L.Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology.
Apparently, Hubbard played a role similar to that of Edward Kelly, "scryer" for the aforementioned Dr. John Dee, of whom Crowley was an ardent admirer. A scryer works as a receptor of otherworldly communications, often using a crystal ball or similar device in conjunction with the magician's rituals and ceremonies to summon beings from other dimensions. Together magician and scryer work hand-in-hand in summoning these otherworldly beings: be they angels, demons or spirits of the dead. Crowley's Scarlet Woman, in many instances, performed this same function; for instance Crowley's first wife, Rose Kelly — while in a magical trance — received the first three chapters of the infamous Book of the Law, the manuscript that laid the foundation for Crowley's "religion", Thelema. Furthermore, the portal of entry for the extraterrestrial beings that Crowley theoretically opened (when he invoked the entity "Lam") may have been further enlarged by Parsons and Hubbard with the commencement of the Babalon Working, thus facilitating a monumental paradigm shift in human consciousness. As Kenneth Grant wrote, "The [Babalon] Working began... just prior to the wave of unexplained ariel phenomena now recalled as the 'Great Flying Saucer Flap!' Parsons opened a door and something flew in." Such researchers as John Carter suggest that the detonation of atomic bombs over Japan — during the latter part of World War II — may have also played a part in opening this door between dimensions or, at least, attracted the curiosity of our intergalactic neighbors.
As Thelemic history instructs, 1947 ended the first stage of the Babalon Working, as Parsons and Hubbard parted ways amid a cloud of turmoil.(Apparently, Hubbard split with Parsons wife and a large part of his fortune.) It was the same year the Modern Age of UFOs flew into view with the Kenneth Arnold sightings over Mt. Rainer in Washington state, followed not long after by the legendary saucer crash in Roswell, New Mexico.


In other words, according to this version of events, Hubbard had stolen OTO magickal workings.

One particular prism through which to view this whole scenario is provided by the work of Jung.

Keith Millea
11-18-2009, 10:38 PM
In other words, according to this version of events, Hubbard had stolen OTO magickal workings.

And the CIA took it from Hubbard,and locked it away.:listen:
Some good stuff Jan!:top:

Helen Reyes
11-19-2009, 11:55 AM
On p244 of Vol 1, Levenda lists a gathering of The Nine:

Henry Jackson
Georgia Jackson
Alice Bouverie
Marcella Du Pont
Carl Betz
Vonnie Beck
Arthur Young
Ruth Young
Andrija Puharich

With Dr Vinod acting as medium.

Thank you Jan. I really couldn't find them on search engines.

I do suspect it was the interviewer's lack of knowledge rather than deliberate misdirection.

That said, it's the very inability of the interviewer to distinguish between significant and insignificant that so irritated me.

It would have been wonderful to hear Levenda interviewed by the late and much lamented Mae Brussell.

Yeah, it sure would have. A lot of times it's hard on radio to balance between letting the guest blab on and trying to steer the conversation into a coherent thing for listeners. Obviously the media monarchy man was out of his depth and should have let Levenda blab on a bit more.

On the other hand Levenda seems to suffer from the same thing, the inability to make sense of it. In part he's a victim of his methodology, which is drawing lines between characters in a data base, but he forgets that the statistical probablities become skewed in a small circle of rich elites. I guess he's never lived in a Ukrainian village. The effect is as occluding as it is elucidating, sometimes he just raises a sandstorm impossible to penetrate, but I do like what I've heard and read from him. I need to read more of his stuff and just shut up with the analysis of him for now. He does seem to have a standard interview format, he says the exact same things and steers the interview himself, which is not good or bad. He also seems to be distancing himself from his occult affiliations, probably for consumption by the "patriot" community, or maybe he's just being occult-neutral, but I suspect it's for the same reason. Not that I think he was the author of the Simon Necronomicon, he was just some kind of contact or organizer to get it published as far as I can tell.

I'm told that Swann was an Operant Thetan of very high grade. As were other "pioneer" remote viewers. Indeed, it's been claimed that they were NSA assets sent to steal the "high secrets" of the Church of Scientology. :call2:

Yes, the Planet Veritas article is right about the terminology. I noticed that in Swann and Dame's stuff before, although different terms caught my eye.

Hubbard tried to sell his "technology" to the US government when Kennedy announced the Moon program. Hubbard also counterfeited a book about mind control purporting it to be by Beria, the founder of the NKVD, and tried to turn it in to the US intelligence agencies, who quickly determined it was bogus.

Helen Reyes
11-19-2009, 01:14 PM
About Hubbard and the OTO: he did act as assistant to Parsons during the Babalon working, they did construct an air-table or whatever using the aethyric calls in Enochian and Hubbard ran away with his girlfriend with whom Hubbard had already been sleeping at Parson's house. Jack took a liberal view of such things I guess. Hubbard and the girl absconded with a yacht and a bunch of money, but it was part of a deal Parsons agreed to, a joint venture with Hubbard to buy yachts in Florida and sell them in California I believe. Parsons put up almost all the money and Hubbard did take the money and run. It was bad news for Crowley because he was leeching a monthly stipend from Parsons and probably needed it for dope and whatnot.

Hubbard briefly lived at Parsons's house in Orange, California following his decommission from the Navy after WWII. The point of contact was the Los Angeles science fiction club which met in the basement of a hotel (which probably figures in the RFK assassination or something much later, but I can't remember). Hubbard was probably the only person at that time who was a member of the New York and LA SF clubs. The SF club members were treated to an evening of Hubbard's tall tales followed up by a demonstration of his abilities to mesmerize. One member went around all night telling everyone a miniature kangaroo was dancing in the palm of his hand. Hubbard implanted another post-hypnotic suggestion in a member that was fairly sadistic.

One of Parsons's many house guests was an up-and-coming SF author, and SF authors were frequent guests. The live-in author was Hubbard's way in. This author quickly came to think Hubbard was simply another scam artist tapping Parsons' deep pockets, a view subsequently shard by Crowley in his correspondence.

That ends Hubbard's connexion with the OTO. Later, he claimed to have known Crowley personally and called him a great man. Still later, when he was trying to distnace himself from Crowley, he claimed he had been sent in by Naval Intelligence to bust up a black magic ring in Los Angeles with members who had important jobs in national defense. Neither story is true. Hubbard entered the Navy as an officer and was given command of a ship but was quickly demoted for leading the Navy on a wild goose chase for phantom Jap subs off the Oregon coast, and then shelling a small island that turned out to belong to Mexico, oops. He doesn't seem to have worked for ONI ever. In fact the lousy pension he got as a veteran led to his writing bad checks in LA and then penning the first self-help book in America, Dianetics.

Dianetics turned into Scientology in Oklahoma because of ownership disputes and a partnership that went sour. Hubbard tried to sell his Scientology "tech" to the US government to use for training astronauts and spies. He was rebuffed and took it personally, lashing out at JFK in his public statements.

What followed is cloak-and-dagger. Hubbard tried to infiltrate the US government and succeeded on many levels. At the same time Scientology was on the radar screen for domestic and overseas intelligence and there was counter-infiltration. Also, some fairly early CIA people who gained high posts in the organization were scientologists. Besides trying to sell pillow-talk by British politicians to the KGB (in Scientology there are no secrets, at least not for the auditors), Hubbard was involved in intrigues involving a military coup in Morocco, some odd behavior in Greece under the military junta and at least one attempt to buy himself an African state, although he was kicked out of Rhdesia faster than you can say "Bishop Pike."

The real product Scientology had to offer intelligence was trance induction and lie detection. Their different Operating Thetan levels claimed powers such as telekinesis, remote mental assassination, time travel etc. but couldn't really deliver. With their past life regression claims they have at times gone to elaborate lengths to "prove" it's real to the individual scientologist, forging historical documents and setting up meetings with actors who pretend to know the person in an earlier incarnation. The level of complexity for this approaches a real intelligence operation, imho.

Although Hubbard's ties with the OTO organization seem to have ended with the falling out with Parsons, Hubbard bought up and studied loads of Crowley's books, purchased items that once belonged to Crowley and practiced a kind of magic his whole life. He had a vision of his tutelary spirit once, Hathor as hawkwoman with red hair. He toyed with the idea he was the antichrist, or that scientology would give birth to the antichrist in which he would incarnate in a future life. His son deWolf in the Penthouse interview described a kind of Egyptian magic Hubbard practiced that he called "soul-cracking," a kind of spiritual parasitism.

Levenda is totally right that Process Church was an offshoot of Scientology (albeit unauthorized) so the Process people were physically close to the OTO in LA in the late 60s and travelled in the same circles. So that's another point of contact between the two currents.

I think what SRI and CIA/DoD were doing with Swann was testing to see if they could find any practical use for the powers the scientologists claimed to possess. I think Scientology doesn't have any hidden tech, at least not any that works. I understand General Stubblebine was run out of DoD because of his spoon-bending antics and the Pentagon coven and dark Gypsy tarot readers who began showing up. It didn't quite fit the image the Republicans wanted to project publicly. One of the Swann declassified files I saw has a bunch of stuff on him and at the end there is a newspaper clipping pasted in, or maybe a magazine article. If I remember right, he was trying to peddle something suspiciously like an e-meter, under a different trade name.

That's the crux of the problem with Scientology owning copyrights to their religious materials, it doesn't work. It's like Mormons copyrighting the Book of Mormon. Either it's Scripture or it's not, it's made by man. The IRS deal with Scientology skirted the issue entirely. Even so, the shell organizations mentioned by Planet Veritas got transferred the copyrights to try to make it appear more legitimate. They "license" the rights to use Hubbard's religious/psych material to Church of Scientology. It's a big shell game and money-laundering operation. I think Planet Veritas is wrong about the shell corporation owning all Hubbard's works. A good bit of his SF should be public domain by now and another share of it under copyright to the pulps and radio shows that used it.

One of Hubabrd's pseudonyms was "Flash" Hubbard, used in his aviation pieces. That has a national security significance but probably didn't then.

Moral of the long post: don't simplify the Parsons/Crowley/Hubbard connexion to the point of absurdity because (all together now) LIFE IS STRANGER THAN FICTION.

David Guyatt
11-19-2009, 03:03 PM
Chris Bowen posted:

Grant writes:

“Some believe that the UFO phenomena are part of the "miracle", and a mounting mass of evidence seems to suggest that mysterious entities have been located within the earth's ambience for countless centuries and that more and more people are being born with innate ability to see, or in some way sense their presence... Prayer for deific intervention in ancient times has now become a cri de coeure to extra-terrestrial or interdimensional entities, according to whether the manifestations are viewed as occuring within man's consciousness, or outside himself in apparently objective but often invisible entities. New Isis Lodge has in its archives the sigils of some of these entities. The sigils com from a grimoire of unknown origin which forms a part of the dark quabalahs of Besqul, located by magicians in the Tunnel of Quliefi. The grimoire describes Four Gates of extraterrestrial entry into, and emergence from, the known Universe.”

Lovecraftian language aside, the Tunnel of Quliefi coincide with the Tunnels of Set, which form part of Qabalistic scheme as it pertains to the Qliphoth or the reverse of dark side of the Tree of Life. In other words the Tree of Death.

This is not, to hijack a well known term, something to "fuck around with". As the writer below makes clear it requires great care and attenion. And usually is done under guidance --- in one form or another anyway. Jung describes it as the confrontation with the Shadow (see: http://personalityinstitute.tripod.com/CarlGJung.htm).

I have copied the following extract from "The Magicians Dictionary" which is available at the curiously named http://www.spiritualsatanist.com/books/magiciandictionary.pdf


Lit. "shells" (singular: qliphah). Shades of the dead whose names appear in the books of Dyzan or Thoth, or the Book of the Law (AL). They may contain formulae of magical powers. RAW calls them "souls of those who died insane... the tulpas of Tibet... avatars of Coyote, the American Indian prankster-god." RAW also identifies them with the Celtic "little people" or faeries. Some of the twenty-two qliphotic entities of the Black Tarot, as envisioned by Grant, are defined herein under separate entries, although strictly speaking, the qlippoth are the names of the guardians of the tunnels, not the tunnels themselves.
To understand the qliphothic atus fully and to do them justice can be more deleterious to the artist or researcher than one might suspect. Conceivably, such complete understanding could result in the destruction of the ego without restoration in the Oversoul and therefore lead to actual madness. Dealing with the Qliphoth is the psychic equivalent of working with toxic wastes, dangerous animals or high voltage wires.
To invoke any force is to invoke automatically its opposite as well. In the more conventional sense, qliphoth are negative cosmic energies equating with the ten positive Sephiroth (e.g., Lilith is the evil counterpart of Malkuth). All positive aspects of divinity have their "excremental" sides, or demons: Beelzebub, Satanas, etc. The difference between metamorphosis and excretion is thinner than you might guess. From the universal lexicon:

scall English scab
chale Cupeno husk, shell
skalli Icelandic a peeled head
geled Hebrew skin
kulit Malay skin
skull English the "shell" of the brain
azal Basque peeling
soale Hausa to peel off
scale, shell English
scalp<skalp Middle English a sheath
kupas Malay to skin; peel; husk
qliphah Hebrew husk, discard
Qlipphoth "peelings, refuse" or "demons" of the Qabalah
schelpe M. Dutch a shell

In the waning years of Alchemy, occultists were fond of saying that the Philosopher's Stone was "that which all men despise" -- and this in turn led the puffers to experiment with various types of excrement in order to see if that substance, perchance, could possibly yield the Secret of the Ages, since nothing so far had succeeded in doing so. And of course all such experiments accomplished was to mark the nadir of human folly.
What is this word "excrement", after all? It's from Latin, excernere, "to separate." It is a separation, a peeling away, as when we peel away a scab or a blister, making it no longer a part of ourselves. German scheiden/schieden (divide, separate, divorce) is simply another form of the word Scheisse (Fr. chier, Engl. shit) or its Greek equivalent schizo, "to split."
Latin cutis (skin), we should notice, first of all, is a cognate of Greek skatos (dung). Like the snake, what we throw away begins with the "skin" -- a word which probably represents a form of one of the universal roots. Compare Peruvian kina (the bark, or tree peeling, whence we get quinine) and Malay sisek (fish scales). Perhaps even the Austrian Kakadu word, kŠngir meaning "skin" is distantly related. At any rate, kŠngir is almost certainly the origin of "kangaroo," particularly since the Australian Warramunga word, nguru, meant "foreskin." These two are clearly connected and the marsupial associations are plain enough.
The puffers didn't understand that excrement isn't exactly what all men despise. Or to be more precise, what matters isn't so much what is discarded and thrown away, but the value we place on the kept, as opposed to the trash. That faulty decision itself is where the problem lies. In fact, the Finnish proverb: Kulta kultainen v“lkkya roskatta, "gold glitters in what is thrown away", is a sentiment well understood by shamans, witches and other marginal people, who are drawn to the rubbish heaps and middens, much as the money-vultures circle the stock market.
What all men despise is "that out there," that is to say, the world. And they try incessantly to dissociate themselves from it. Yet, obviously, if we really were one with the world, then we'd have in hand "the universal solvent," we'd have immortality because the world is immortal. In the world's all-powerful Nature is the very secret of turning lead into gold. Instead man tries desperately to throw out everything that is not self.
Part of the problem is that the verb "to be" has two meanings (as in Spanish): one is an expression of permanent identity or equivalence to something else and the other an expression of a changing, on-going process. When we accept the error that we are not gods, we cease all self-examination, self-disciplines and self-improvement. We define god as an embodiment of "pefection" (or completion) instead of as the avenue of evolution and becoming. Only idols are perfect. Not even Odin ever thought of himself as perfect: he had to make many sacrifices in order to gain wisdom. Ditto Osiris, who was so far from being "together" that he was chopped up into little pieces. Granted, Jehovah is perfect, or thinks He is, but He is also a difficult God to respect, for that same reason. When you say we are not gods, you mean we are not idols. But an idol is precisely what modern man has made of himself. He worships himself, even though gods never worship themselves. Obviously, they don't have to. Only man worships himself, though not really as a god or potential god. He worships himself just as he is: as a fatted, golden pig wearing Gucci shoes.
The reason people push gods "outside" is the same reason they shove everything else outside, separating everything and calling it evil because it is unwanted. Anything which is not self, including the planet earth, is felt to be of no real value. In fact, matter is simply unwanted "dirt." Most of the self is thrown away, at least that part of the self which demands the most work or struggle. All that may remain is the momentary gratification of physical need: food, drink, sex, rest, entertainment. To put a god into that strait-jacket, even a minor one, is to disrupt the routine, to interfere with the direct line of ice cream to mouth. Besides, the puffing up of an imaginary personal ego is a thousand times easier than the expression of difficult, real Divinity. Standing far enough away from the world empowers objectivity to serve as the perfect defense of the ego. Here ego cannot be challenged and "Science" and "Reason" become the last refuges of Subjective Solipsism.
In the Qabalah this peeling away of the self, this separation or "excrement" is called a Qlipha (pl. qlipphoth). The qliphoth are the negative personifications. All the expressions of Divinity have their "qlipphoth": Samael, Beelzebub, Satanas, etc., as we've said. And, in truth, these are what people actually bow down to: these idols that are made up out of excrement. Divinity that lies outside of self is not divinity.
In contemporary Occidental man's desperate struggle to separate himself we would do well to remember Alan Watts' comparison of the self to an onion. You can peel and peel until there is nothing left.


I find it interesting that it is said that one might find Four Gates of extraterrestrial entry into, and emergence from, the known Universe via this procedure. Extraterrestrial or inter-dimensional? I suppose it depends on your use of the word "extraterrestrial" but I'm quite certain that it does not mean what most would consider by this usage. Inter-dimensional is better I think, and goes a long way to understanding the deeper meaning of "alien". Extroverts generally are inclined to think of reality as things physically external to themselves, whereas Introverts imply far more depth to their inner experiences.

In the case of L Ron Hubbard I have the distinct impression that he dabbled in occult matters in order to gain power over others. Indeed, I recall an article that I posted elsewhere on this site, penned by his son, that stated this quite explicitly. His son also said that shortly after the end of WWII his father received, by private courier, the entire occult teachings of the Nazi occult lodge the Thule Gesellschaft.

Helen Reyes
12-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Peter Levenda interviewed on Dr Deagle's Nutrimedical Report show, December 10, 2009, first hour: http://gcnlive.com/Archives2009/dec09/Nutrimedical/1210091.mp3

Another one scheduled for next Thursday same place, same time.

Helen Reyes
12-17-2009, 04:31 PM
Dr Deagle is interviewing him again in 4.5 hours, anyone can try to call in, listen page here:


deagle page here:


live and 24-hour looped listening stream here:


archived audio file: http://gcnlive.com/Archives2009/dec09/Nutrimedical/1217091.mp3

Helen Reyes
12-18-2009, 11:57 AM
Dr Deagle has yet ANOTHER interview with Peter Levenda on December 28, same place, same time. I'm off for about a week, take care and happy holidays!

Lauren Johnson
06-02-2012, 04:12 PM
From an Amazon reviewer:

Rumor has it that Peter Levenda is the author of the 'Simon' Necronomicon and that anyone who reads THAT book is cursed for seven years. I think that book was a bald-faced hoax, but it is fitting that the same author was involved here, because THIS book is genuinely dangerous. If you have any paranoid tendencies, any mental imbalance, you should probably leave the entire Sinister Forces trilogy alone.

In brief, the author argues that "mind-control" (in the form of propaganda, subtle persuasion, psychedelic drugs, terrorism, and...well...mind control) is an essential component of modern politics. And mind control is the same phenomenon the world once understood as witchcraft. We in the modern West may believe we are not susceptible to these irrational compulsive forces but, in fact, we are UNIQUELY vulnerable. Our societies have marginalized and devalued the traditional shamanistic encounter with unreason, and as a result we have a very unhealthy relationship with it. Intelligence operators, in the quest for tools of political influence, have rediscovered shamanistic practices and the forces that underlie them. These forces are "sinister" in a value-neutral sense; they are forces of the "left-hand path" - antinomian and awe-inspiring, but not necessarily evil. In proper context they can be beneficial to the individual and the community. But by implementing these practices alone, stripped of any spiritual significance, we have corrupted them. Both the serial killer and the fascist, he argues, are failed shamen.

Of course, Levenda does not state this explicitly until page 362 of volume III. And, even then, I hesitate to take him at face value; to bury "the point" so deeply within a work like this is audacious. It may indicate that the subject matter is exceptionally subtle and must be teased out with care. It may indicate an intentional esotericism (as Nietzsche put it: "a book for all and none"). Or, it may indicate the active hypnotic manipulation of the reader - a sort of literary "look into my eyes." Here, I would argue, we have all three - and they take almost a thousand pages to fully manifest. And yet, Levenda never loses our attention. Like a fairytale warlock, he charms and coaxes the reader down this dark forest path.

Ok, not "like" a warlock. He IS a warlock, and this is what makes his exposition of political witchcraft so compelling. His approach to the DETAILS of political history is remarkably sober - the text is exhaustively footnoted and bibliographied. But he recognizes patterns in these data that would be apparent only to a serious occultist.

Indeed, some of these patterns are clearly faces in the clouds, but that's beside the point. The 'big picture' is not the main attraction. Read this book for the parade of oddball facts the author has marshalled together. Read it for thrills and chills and extreme thought-provocation. Prepare yourself for suspense, intrigue and intiatory terror on the threshold of spiritual enlightenment. Just be careful to come back in one piece...

I find the trilogy difficult to wrap my mind around. I have just started the third one. Just throwing out this Amazon opinion to spark discussion. (I also bought Ratline.)

Jan Klimkowski
06-02-2012, 05:42 PM
Lauren - Levenda may well be the author of the Simon Necronomicon.

He plays with the idea on his Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Peter-Levenda/111074452278305).

The rest of that Amazon "critique" is deeply tedious. In fact, it's probably the most boring comment about Levenda's work on all of DPF, and there are literally hundreds and hundreds of comments here.

That Amazon "critique" is also the least interesting information in this thread - so I won't be discussing it further.

Now, if you want to discuss remote viewing, Scientology, the Process Church of the Final Judgement, Jungian analysis of Golden Dawn and OTO occultism, or Squeaky Fromme's handler, then go right ahead.

Dawn Meredith
06-03-2012, 04:55 PM
I happened upon a fantastic interview with him last weekend. The Nazis and the US space race. And the tie in with the JFK assassination and beyond weird bishops.

He's a wonderful speaker. I have read many reviews of this trilogy and several make him out to be a difficult writer. But if he writes the way he speaks I know I will love it. The subject matter is of great interest to me. Problem is my reading list is so long and I have been so very busy with my job that I still have not even ordered these books. I need more hours to the day. Or a month off just to read.


Lauren Johnson
06-03-2012, 07:19 PM
I happened upon a fantastic interview with him last weekend. The Nazis and the US space race. And the tie in with the JFK assassination and beyond weird bishops.

He's a wonderful speaker. I have read many reviews of this trilogy and several make him out to be a difficult writer. But if he writes the way he speaks I know I will love it. The subject matter is of great interest to me. Problem is my reading list is so long and I have been so very busy with my job that I still have not even ordered these books. I need more hours to the day. Or a month off just to read.


This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_63639&amp;feature=iv&amp;sr c_vid=Cj2qrl6Q2rk&amp;v=DV6MVsmi6z8

Dawn Meredith
06-04-2012, 12:51 PM
I happened upon a fantastic interview with him last weekend. The Nazis and the US space race. And the tie in with the JFK assassination and beyond weird bishops.

He's a wonderful speaker. I have read many reviews of this trilogy and several make him out to be a difficult writer. But if he writes the way he speaks I know I will love it. The subject matter is of great interest to me. Problem is my reading list is so long and I have been so very busy with my job that I still have not even ordered these books. I need more hours to the day. Or a month off just to read.


This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_63639&amp;feature=iv&amp;sr c_vid=Cj2qrl6Q2rk&amp;v=DV6MVsmi6z8

Lauren: Because I was having major problems with another site a friend downloaded chrome for me for that site (facebook). Now as a result when I try to download adobe flash player to look at videos it won't work and "tells " me I have it on chrome already. I am NOT technically inclined so no clue how to remedy. So I do not know what video you posted.


Lauren Johnson
06-04-2012, 05:20 PM
Title is: Secret Space Program: Peter Levenda [Full Length]

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj2qrl6Q2rk

Lauren Johnson
06-07-2012, 05:20 PM
With regards to Levenda's view of the occult as seeks to make a new human and how much occult themes are present in music and film. Behold the winning goddess of the Eurovision contest: Loreen.


These are the lyrics:
Why, why can’t this moment last forevermore?
Tonight, tonight eternity’s an open door…
No, don’t ever stop doing the things you do.
Don’t go, in every breath I take I’m breathing you…

Forever, ’till the end of time
From now on, only you and I
We’re going up-up-up-up-up-up-up
An everlasting piece of art
A beating love within my heart
We’re going up-up-up-up-up-up-up

We are here, we’re all alone in our own Universe,
We are free, where everything’s allowed and love comes first,
Forever and ever together, we sail into infinity,
We’re higher and higher and higher, we’re reaching for divinity.

Forever, ’till the end of time
From now on, only you and I
We’re going up-up-up-up-up-up-up
An everlasting piece of art
A beating love within my heart
We’re going up-up-up-up-up-up-up

Forever we sail into infinity,
We’re higher, we’re reaching for divinity…

Euphoria, euphoria
We’re going up-up-up-up-up-up-up
An everlasting piece of art
A beating love within my heart
We’re going up-up-up-up-up-up-up
Euphoria, euphoria
We’re going up-up-up-up-up-up-up

Jan Klimkowski
06-07-2012, 05:49 PM
Lauren - you're in great danger of rendering important subject matter banal.

Of performing alchemy in reverse.

Consider this.

The full title of Levenda's trilogy is: Sinister Forces: A Grimoire of American Political Witchcraft.

Consider every word.

Then consider why a young Peter Levenda may have written the Simon Necronomicon.

And why an older Peter Levenda may play with the notion that a younger self penned such a work.

You should consider the short story There Are More Things by Jorge Luis Borges.

If you should enter the Zone, consider the life of Squeaky Fromme as parable.

Lauren Johnson
06-08-2012, 01:44 AM
Lauren - you're in great danger of rendering important subject matter banal.

Of performing alchemy in reverse.

Consider this.

The full title of Levenda's trilogy is: Sinister Forces: A Grimoire of American Political Witchcraft.

Consider every word.

Then consider why a young Peter Levenda may have written the Simon Necronomicon.

And why an older Peter Levenda may play with the notion that a younger self penned such a work.

You should consider the short story There Are More Things by Jorge Luis Borges.

If you should enter the Zone, consider the life of Squeaky Fromme as parable.


First I read around in the Simon Necronomicon. I can't say I read every word, but ... what am I supposed to do with these foul spirits roaming about? I know. I shoulda read the part about banishings first. But this is rediculous. Seriously, reading that book made me feel ill.

Second, I put up the video of Loreen with the following passage from Bk III of Sinister Forces in mind:

The Manson Secret is black magic, and it was black magic that informed the CIA’s mind-control programs as well. These same processes are being used— virtually without change—among terrorist organizations and revolutionary cells throughout the world, who have realized that the most effective tool for violent action is the properly initiated cult member. Ecstasy is just another face of fanaticism; eros is another face of magic. Fascism is the natural environment for both, for it speaks directly to the passions and the unconscious mind, through the use of symbols, repetitive slogans, and group ritual; i.e., magic....Transmute the ecstasy or the eros to a high pitch of passionate dedication to a cause, and use the theory of the magical link competently, and you have created an assassin, or a priest, a lover, an actor; or a politician who cannot be stopped except by a bullet. (p.430)

I understand "Loreen" to be a witch living in divinity for a few moments and we through her we partake in the divine. We live in an ecstatic eternal moment through her. That is the intent. We are led into a "sinister force" that surely is not black magic. No, "Loreen" is not political witchcraft, but witchcraft nevertheless. Consider:

Hollywood is the new religion of America and, to a certain extent, of the rest of the world as well. Hollywood brings the gods—the stars, “every man and every woman is a star”—down to earth, where they can be seen and heard and touched by the masses; not only Hollywood, of course, but also the music industry, and not only in California and New York but also in Bollywood and Europe and Mexico and Brazil and Venezuela and China and Hong Kong and so on. Americans emulate movie characters more than they do the saints of their religions: they dress like them, drive the same cars, have the same attitudes, talk like them, and eventually adopt the same cultural mores. Hollywood is a vast mind-control engine, which is why many independent films are ignored by the public: they do not want to think independently, they want to have their consciousness massaged by the old, familiar rituals. The tools of Hollywood are the tools of psychological warfare, of mind control and behavior control. Of advertising, in its most pernicious sense. (p435)

Loreen aka Lorine Zineb Nora Talhaoui of Moroccan parentage, is just a another human who shits and will die, not a goddess. But through the power of television and thousands of watts of electricity and experts on lighting, makeup, choreography, sound technicians, and maybe a stray musician, ... and, my god, I am a part of something much greater.

But note the dark figure that dances around her; he comes out of nowhere -- apparently conjured. And he dances her until she dances him into the ground in a final leap of transcendence. Could her craft take the direction of the Rollling Stones in Sympathy for the Devil? Could she be used to work the Manson Secret on us all. Why not? But for now, she's a white witch. She serves a greater purpose just as she is.

OK, I have tried to make myself clearer. Am I still doing alchemy in reverse? I confess that I am just starting to "get" what Levenda is saying. I'll need some time.

Lauren Johnson
06-08-2012, 03:02 PM

I read the Borges story. Deeply disturbing. And if I am "in the Zone," I don't like it -- whatever it is. Squeeky Fromme captured and willing to kill for whatever sinister force she is in thrall to -- hideous. It would be nice to think this is just an isolated, temporal phenomenon. Levenda clearly doubts that. How deep does the rabbit hole go? I dread to think.

Jan Klimkowski
06-08-2012, 07:01 PM

An armchair implies the human body, its joints and members; scissors, the act of cutting. What can be told from a lamp, or an automobile? The savage cannot really perceive the missionary’s Bible; the passenger does not see the same rigging as the ship’s crew.


The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents.

Occult knowledge is primarily concerned with the caverns and crevices of the mind, the world outside waking time and space.

Grimoires contain precarious bridges, crossed by fools, seekers and those who lust for power and control.

Here is a page from a grimoire:

The People's Temple also used electroshock treatments to modify the behavior of the children entrusted to their care. In a locked room of the San Francisco Temple was a machine that only the children to be disciplined and an attending nurse were allowed to see. The machine was named "The Blue-Eyed Monster" though later reports referred to it as "The Blue-Eyed Demon". Some said this Aryan devil was a simple cattle prod, others claimed it was a heart defibrulator or the shock treatment machine the Temple had acquired from Mendocino State Hospital. Few children would describe the apparatus; but those who did said it was a scaled-down version of an executioner's electric chair. The child was strapped into the metal chair and electrodes were attached to various parts of his or her body. Though the machine itself was hidden from the general adult congregation, Jones would call out the names of those children to be disciplined and they would be taken into the Blue-Eyed Monster's den. A microphone, attached to the public address system, was placed in the room. The general congregation heard no noises from the machine only the screams of the children attached to it. The child emerged from the room and ran to Jim Jones; grovelling at his feet to say "Thank you - Thank you" in robot-like repetition.

Later, in Jonestown, the physical beating and shock treatments of the Temple children were replaced with sheer terror in the form of "Big Foot"; a monster that Jones told them lived in a shallow well on the outskirts of the jungle community. Children who misbehaved were lowered into the well, where, unknown to them, adults were hiding in the darkness. The adults made animal sounds and grabbed at the child's dangling legs in a feigned attempt to pull him into the abyss.

Lauren Johnson
06-03-2015, 02:44 AM

Michael Barwell
06-03-2015, 03:21 PM
Ahh, new word, 'grimoire'; I was wondering what the gig was, references I've had to my first cat, Grimalkin.