View Full Version : Why The Facts of 9/11 Must Be Suppressed - Ruling Group Mind Behind the War Without End

Magda Hassan
03-14-2010, 01:38 PM
Sent in by Paul Rigby.

An outstanding lecture:


Guns and Butter
"Why The Facts of 9/11 Must Be Suppressed - Understanding the Ruling Group Mind Behind the War Without End" with Dr. John McMurtry. Dr. McMurtry was one of the first academics to analyze 9/11 and the 9/11 wars. He is Professor of Philosophy Emeritus at the University of of Guelph, Ontario.

Peter Lemkin
03-14-2010, 03:22 PM
I can verify it is WELL worth a listen to!!!! Hey, if any major deviation from the official version were found (and generally accepted) or a cover-up known about (and generally accepted) the current and former polity and power structures in the U$A would collapse like a house of cards or the Stalin statue that used to dominate the skyline over Prague.

Ed Jewett
03-14-2010, 10:01 PM
Is this new material? I've been a fan of McMurtry's for some time. Injecting his material into the middle of a flock of "debunkers" brings blessed silence. There is little comeback when he or Peter Dale Scott are involved. The folks at Deep Politics Forum should put a permanent "tail" on him so that his work is always available, or even invite him to join.

Peter Lemkin
03-15-2010, 08:49 AM
Is this new material? I've been a fan of McMurtry's for some time. Injecting his material into the middle of a flock of "debunkers" brings blessed silence. There is little comeback when he or Peter Dale Scott are involved. The folks at Deep Politics Forum should put a permanent "tail" on him so that his work is always available, or even invite him to join.

This is a repeat. He gave the talk in May of 2004, I believe. The man is brilliant! He is fusing philosophy, sociology, psychology, economic analysis and deep political meta-analysis in one. Do NOT fail to listen to this or read his books and publications....over 100! http://www.uoguelph.ca/philosophy/page.cfm?id=330

Some just can see clearly, no matter how much obscuring propagandistic smoke and voodoo who-do is thrown at the society. Yes, McMurtry and Peter Dale Scott are two prime examples.

David Guyatt
03-15-2010, 01:38 PM
Is there a transcript of his speech available does anyone know? I've listened to it and it is highly significant and deserves to be posted in full in transcript form for reference purposes.

Peter Lemkin
03-15-2010, 01:45 PM
Is there a transcript of his speech available does anyone know? I've listened to it and it is highly significant and deserves to be posted in full in transcript form for reference purposes.

Sadly Guns and Butter shows are not put into transcript form - almost all of them deserve it! The only chance is that someone out 'there' did it on their own from the show or from the original lecture.....

David Guyatt
03-15-2010, 01:55 PM
Pity, because this is a corker and deserves wider distribution -- and a slow read will aid digestion better, imo.

Peter Presland
03-15-2010, 02:56 PM
I believe I'm right in saying that the recording is based on a lecture that John McMurtry delivered in Toronto, May 2004. The attached MS word document is a greatly expanded and reworked version of the lecture and I heartily commend it to one and all. I first read it about 18 months ago and I recall it making quite an impression on me. It is complemented by a shorter piece along similar lines by Ola Tunander called 'Democratic State or Deep State' which, if memory serves, was posted here by Peter L about 12 months ago.

Both deserve much wider attention and I'm uploading both of them here for the archive and posterity.

David Guyatt
03-15-2010, 03:26 PM
A BIG thank you Peter.

I was going to try and contact Dr. John McMurtry for a digital copy of his 2004 speech simply because I think it is so important.

Peter Lemkin
03-15-2010, 03:38 PM
Yes, thanks for finding that Peter. Peter
Ole Tunander is another very perceptive person and a friend.
It is amazing how when some finds a clear voice, clarity of vision and though, how it resonates....DEEP. It's a 'keeper'

Now the only approved 'torture' I advocate is taking friends and family who have been in total denial about 'all this' and forcing them by hook or crook to listen to a speech like this!.......

Ed Jewett
03-16-2010, 11:51 PM
I concur with the above. [As a side note, if other efforts to convert audio to text fail and it is deemed to be of high import, I will offer my services for transcription. I spent seven years as a medical transcriber and I also have voice recognition software, though I am not aware of any method to plug other source audio in to it.]

Ed Jewett
03-18-2010, 04:54 AM
Yep. Thanks to all. Just listened... have heard much of it before, if not all of it. Still, we need to hammer that message home. It is very well done.

Lauren Johnson
02-13-2014, 04:23 AM
Bumping up this brilliant speech (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?3395-Why-The-Facts-of-9-11-Must-Be-Suppressed-Ruling-Group-Mind-Behind-the-War-Without-End#.UvwzpLTaeuk) by John McMurtry.

Peter Lemkin
05-15-2014, 07:30 AM
onesliceshort has just posted a new topic entitled "The C 130 Caper" in forum "Pentagon".


I'll just dive straight in..

Miles Kara was assigned to basically "find out" what was happening in the skies above Washington DC and the Pentagon before and after the alleged impact, and report what he found to the 9/11 Commission.

Allegedly in October 2003, a memorandum was filed complaining about audio, video and other records being withheld.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/12962752 (http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/12962752)

Remember that during this period, NORAD had been exposed as having lied about and withheld audio evidence:

http://www.911truth.org/911-live-or-fabricated-do-the-norad-tapes-verify-the-911-commission-report/ (http://www.911truth.org/911-live-or-fabric...mission-report/)

In February 2004, Miles Kara released what he termed "relevant" ATC transmissions from Andrews complete with timelines. How he arrived at these timelines is not stipulated. Seen here:

Relevant Andrews Transmissions
Work Complete Feb 17-18, 2004
Miles Kara

http://www.911myths.com/images/7/79/Team8_Box8_MilesKaraDocs3-Timelines_RelevantAndrewsTransmissions.pdf (http://www.911myths.com/images/7/79/Team8_...ansmissions.pdf)

The transcript and timeline for the C130 stopped before its takeoff.

In May 2004, in the interview with C130 pilot Stephen O'Brien, he "revealed" more ATC audio and had the alleged RADES data available to him

http://www.oredigger61.org/?p=6314 (http://www.oredigger61.org/?p=6314)

When the alleged NTSB FDR data and RADES data were released it became obvious that the C130 pilot's description of events clearly didn't match the data. Nor did witnesses to the arrival of the C130 within the Pentagon basin.

More details here:

http://www.thepentacon.com/Topic5.htm (http://www.thepentacon.com/Topic5.htm)

(IMAGE: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/Pentagon/gifs/c-130approach.gif)

And here:

http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=116 (http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=116)

(IMAGE: http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e207/Mercury2/C130FakeRADES.jpg)

There then followed the alleged release of yet more ATC audio by Pentagon disinformationist John Farmer and "Boonedoggled" due to the efforts of CIT (esp. Aldo Marquis) and Rob Balsamo (who entered an e mail exchange with the C130 pilot). "Boonedoggled" posted a video compilation of ATC recordings allegedly uncompressed. That is, supposedly in real time (Source, AFAIK, unconfirmed):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSoeBSha4Pk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSoeBSha4Pk)

I've used all of this alleged data and audio to see if they matched, working backwards from a set timeframe within the official narrative. Where O'Brien claims to have seen the aircraft at his "10 o'clock to 12 o'clock" position; the ATC audio; the alleged FDR data, and the alleged RADES data.

What follows is a comparison between the "real time" video of ATC audio and Miles Kara's timeline.
The seconds and minutes are of the "real time" video. The derived time according to the official narrative are indicated after each audio segment:

10s: Probably be a few minutes for wake turbulence 747 depart (09:28:03)

1:30 : Tyson, Andrews, looking for another release (09:29:23)

1:38: Who ya got? (09:29:31)

1:40 I got Gopher06 Hagerstown (09:29:33)

1:43 Gofer06 release [a few minutes?] (09:29:36)

Miles Kara 2004:

09:28:35 Tape (7982 BIB, Arrival Radar) Gopher 06, released

According to the Kara timeline, Gofer 06 was released 1 minute -earlier-.

Back to the video..,

2:00 Gofer06 Runway 1 Left taxi into position and hold....? Traffic crossing....(09:29:53)

Miles Kara 2004:

09:30:40 (Tape 7982 CIA, Ground Control) Ground Control gives Gofer 06 permission to taxi to runway 1L

According to the Kara timeline, Gofer 06 was given permission to taxi to runway 1L 47 seconds -later- than in the video

Back to the video...

2:45 Gofer06 gonna hold you in position for just one moment for a helicopter crossing (09:30:38)

Miles Kara 2004: This message is not even mentioned in the Kara timeline even though this "helicopter crossing" -was- mentioned in his O'Brien interview.

In fact, around the alleged time of the "helicopter crossing", Kara actually claimed that Gofer 06 was cleared for takeoff 12 seconds later than the "real time" video

09:30:50 Tape (7981 A1B, Local Control) Gofer 06 cleared for takeoff, not reported to Base Ops

Back to the video...

3:29 GOFER 06, helicopter traffic crossing the centerline. Will continue westbound, he'll be south of your turn, wind 3-5-0 at 8. Runway one left, clear for takeoff. (09:31:22)

Miles Kara, 2004: Again, this "helicopter crossing" is not mentioned in his report. Instead, around this time, there is a reference to an incident that isn't mentioned in the "real time" video:

09:31:40 (Tape 7982 CIA, Ground Control) Gofer 06 requests temporary hold to enhance INS system

Note: The C130 Hercules uses a laser gyro inertial navigational system (INS).


Where is the audio of this request?

What was meant by "enhance" the INS?

Note: This could take a couple or several minutes depending on what "enhancement" was carried out on such a sensitive instrument.

For an alignment, the engines must be switched off. No vibration whatsoever. If not, the readings are next to useless.

Here's a tutorial on how to set an INS (albeit computer simulation, same rules apply to real aircraft):

http://www.element14.com/community/thread/2453/l/inertial-navigation-system-ins-tutorial (http://www.element14.com/community/thread/...em-ins-tutorial)

And a C130 H pilot forum discussed the same issue on setting the INS

http://www.c-130hercules.net/archive/index.php/t-1296.html (http://www.c-130hercules.net/archive/index.php/t-1296.html)


http://s9.postimg.org/6jdxylcu7/image.jpg (http://s9.postimg.org/6jdxylcu7/image.jpg)[/i]

Back to the video...

3:38 Clear for takeoff zero six (09:31:31)

Miles Kara, 2004:

09:30:50: (Tape 7981 A1B, Local Control) Gofer 06 cleared for takeoff, not reported to Base Ops

According to Kara's timeline, Gofer 06 was cleared for takeoff 41 seconds later than the "real time" video.

Summary so far:

Both timelines jump back and forth by up to 60-90 seconds.

Kara's timeline is void of the "helicopter crossing" message from Andrews around the same time as the alleged INS "enhancement" message from Gofer 06 which is not to be heard anywhere in the video.

Kara was apparently aware of the "helicopter crossing" message in his subsequent interview with O'Brien. This helicopter wasn't "relevant"? Or was he waiting to see if this was "classified"?

Even if the "INS enhancement" message audio were to suddenly appear through some unofficial back door internet source, we now know that all alleged audio and various timelines are suspected of having been edited, censored and/or manipulated at one or more stages along the line. Probably for different reasons.

NORAD was exposed as having "tweaked" the timeline to cover up the military response.

And Kara (as will be shown in another thread) purposefully blindsided and lead O'Brien during at least two interviews for the purpose of making contradictory testimony of the C130 pilot "fit".


QUOTE There are two runways on the base; the western runway is 11,300 feet (3,400 m) in length, and the eastern runway is 11,700 feet (3,600 m) in length.
Source: Wikipedia

Another alleged set of radar data (source unknown AFAIK) supposedly shows the C130 in the final minute before takeoff but before that, a recap.

There is almost exactly a minute difference between Kara's and the alleged "real time" audio on the time of release of Gofer 06

09:28:35 (Kara)
09:29:36 ("real time")

There are 47 seconds difference between Kara's and the alleged "real time" audio on the time Gofer 06 was told to taxi to Runway 1L

09:30:40 (Kara)
09:29:53 ("real time")

In other words, Kara noted a 2 minute 5 second delay (maybe 30 seconds less if I've read this wrong) between the release of Gofer 06 and the time it was told to taxi to Runway 1L while the "real time" audio noted just 17 seconds.

Between 09:30:38 and 09:31:22 (44 seconds) on the "real time" audio, Gofer 06 was allegedly told to delay because of a "helicopter crossing". An event that isn't mentioned in the Kara timeline but is mentioned during his interview with O'Brien. Both during and just after this "real time" audio of the helicopter, Kara's timeline includes the "cleared for takeoff" and Gofer 06 requesting a delay to "enhance" his INS!

During Kara's second interview with O'Brien, he claimed to have been facing "south" towards "where they keep the 747s" when "Word31" allegedly started up and took off at 09:27.

Kara claimed that there were no less than three "delays" in the C130's takeoff between 09:27 and the alleged wheels up at about 09:33. Six minutes from O'Brien allegedly saw the 747 take off from an area facing south. And just five minutes until he was at the far south end of Runway 1L allegedly at 09:32:04.

1) wake turbulence from a 747 (Word31) - 4-5 nautical miles of separation required

2) "perhaps" a grass cutter (which was never acknowledged by O'Brien, outlined in detail nor a timeframe specified) and of which Kara says that he's "not sure on"

3) a helicopter "coming across"

If we take the "real time" audio as being valid, Gofer 06 was informed for a second time of the "helicopter crossing" at 09:31:22.

We then have to take in to account a fourth delay in the form of O'Brien allegedly requesting time to "enhance" his INS. Even if we throw all logic and procedure out the window and pretend that an INS can be "enhanced" while the engines are running and the aircraft is no longer in its original position, it's still another as yet undefined time period of delay.

And don't forget the grass cutter! Which brings us back to the alleged position of the. C130 at 09:32:04...

(IMAGE: http://s9.postimg.org/a0g01kbwf/image.jpg)

What the hell?

Oh yeah, throw this into the mix of timeframes..

QUOTE In this study the time of day used as the standard time is from the USAF 84th RADES data, which covers all of the flights from takeoff to respective impacts. Initial comparisons of the radar data from the USAF and the FAA showed that an offset in time was present. The 84th RADES found that the clock for the North East Air Defense Sector (NEADS) lagged the clock for the other sectors by 25.3 seconds. The other sectors were all in agreement with the Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) time. Therefore, 25.3 seconds must be added to the radar data from the 84th RADES.

I'm sure there are back up excuses, more "audio", unsourced snippets of information (like hand written "flightstrips") or whatever out there to "fill the blanks in" here in yet another unofficial capacity, but that's all I see when discussing the Pentagon. What should be straightforward case of crossreferencing available "data" and ATC audio (which apparently doesn't record the time of transmission), into a very specific and lucid sequence of events should be apparent.

But it isn't the case, is it?

The topic can be found here: