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Helen Reyes
05-06-2010, 12:29 PM
The late Jim Keith, co-author with Kenn Thomas of The Octopus, a book based on papers left behind by Danny Casolaro after his murder, wrote this short book about the Illuminati/NWO and the flying saucer phenomenon and originally published it as pages in a binder for limited distribution.

The introduction sets out Keith's intention to put forward a new theory of UFOs encompassing both the mind-control theories and the idea they are cover for advanced aerospace projects.


In 1993 a miniscule two hundred copy photocopied "researcher's edition" of my book Saucers of the Illuminati was rushed into print, upon my urging, by IllumiNet Press. My purpose for authorizing this informal edition was to get into print certain interesting connections that I had made between occult philosophy, the lore of UFOs, and the totalitarian New World Order - ideas that I had discussed at length with other researchers and that were already twinkling into being in a firmament of articles by some of those worthies. I was a little... paranoid is not the word I seek... concerned that by the time a proper paperback edition of Saucers was ushered into being, that I might be accused of plagiarizing myself.

In his foreward to the 2004 edition Kenn Thomas writes:



It was a point of view that developed over time, actually re-doing Saucers in
1998 in actual book form and now which resonates as a defining echo of the
weirdness of the post-9/11 world, years after Keith has gone on to his reward.1 As the book cover attests, "as the 21st century approaches, many people suspect that something earth shattering is about to happen..."

1. Keith and I wrote The Octopus: Secret Government and the Death of
Danny Casolaro, which became a hard-to-find cult classic. It currently enjoys a new edition, with one of three new chapters dealing with Jim Keith's unusual death. Among the many strange dimensions of Keith's passing discussed therein was the appearance of clostridium bacteria in the kind of knee surgery that led to his early death. Keith had noted years ago the presence of clostridium bacteria in the late 1970s cattle mutilations of New Mexico. Clostridium also killed our mutual good friend Ron Bonds, who published the first book edition of Saucers.


The initial chapters note anomalies in the saucer experience--which Keith posits aren't all that anomolous, finding they occur in a significant portion of close encounters--that point to a human origin for the UFOs, despite what the "professional UFOlogists" would like to believe about their extraterrestrial origins. Keith quotes Keel, author of Mothman and Our Haunted Planet, but comes to a different conclusion (if Keel really does ever come to any conclusions about the ultimate origins of UFOs; he himself says he does not), skirting the autochthonic Shaverian Agarthic mythological continuum for a more scientific and mundane explanation.

Unlike Thomas, Keith finds the MJ-12 documents to be counterfeit. He thinks the provenance is suspect and lists the reasons why he believes the actors originally involved with the MJ-12 "revelation" were government disinformation agents, including Lear, but doesn't come to any real conclusion on Bill Cooper except to note he did more than anyone else except Lear to reinforce the public's notion the UFOs were ETs. Keith dismisses the "discovery" of a corroboriting document as easily faked by anyone with access to the archive in question, notes the document was in an unrelated collection and wonders why Eisenhower as Army chief in 1947 would need a briefing on Roswell years later, apparently the subject of the only document ever discovered which mentions MJ-12 (the original MJ-12 "discovery" was undeveloped photographic film, apparently of documents, but unverifiable).

Chapter 8 is called Philip K. Dick and the Illuminati. Keith describes Dick's visions as related in VALIS and Dick's exegesis notes, and finds strong parallels with Masonic imagery and the Masonic mission, especially in the character of Mini, the electronic music composer in VALIS. Keith touches on research using microwaves to induce hallucinations in humans and animals and draws associations with Dick's semi-autobiography.


Ultimately the VALIS enigma is difficult to interpret with any absolute sense of certainty about what took place that day in March of 1974. It shines with points of illumination whose meaning remains elusive against the explanations of prosaic reality. What we do know is that, for whatever reason, in whatever fashion, Philip Dick had almost the entire Illuminist/Freemasonic mythos fired into his forebrain, and that he struggled with those images, trying to make sense of their symbolism, for the short period of time that remained in his life. Either he was force-fed a massive injection of Freemasonic mythology via electronic beam (as he believed), or in a moment of dreadful illumination--or perhaps hallucinogenic receptivity--Philip K. Dick saw the truth of the world.

Chapter 9 is called The Sirius Connection. It begins with an explication of Dogon mythology including Dick, Crowley, Lebelson, Hoffman, Temple et al. He quotes Emery's Archaic Egypt on a sudden cultural advance in Egypt about 6,000 years ago:


At a period approximately 3400 years before Christ, a great change took place in Egypt, and the country passed rapidly from a state of advanced Neolithic culture with a complex tribal character to two well-organized monarchies, one comprising the Delta area and the other the Nile valley proper. At the same time the art of writing appears, monumental architecture and the arts and crafts developed to an astonishing degree, and all the evidence points to the existence of a well-organized and even luxurious civilization. All this was achieved within a comparatively short period of time, for there appears to be little or no background to these fundamental developments in writing and architecture.

Keith responds with this:


And the reason for this remarkable increase in human knowledge is known to us, although not admitted. Although the truth has not filtered into the hallowed studios of the 6:00 News, it is not in question as to whether mankind has come into contact with an extraterrestrial culture. We have. There is complete confirmation of the legend of the Oannes, which has been obtained in the 20th century. Proof of that contact resides in the secret cosmological traditions of the Dogon tribe of Africa.

(Keith doesn't say there are no ETs, but rather that the Sirius and Orion groups of real ETs are being used as part of a propaganda campaign by Freemasonic Illuminists of the New World Order for furthering their earthly agenda.)

Chapter 11 details occult and intelligence agency ties starting with John Dee, the original 007, and continuing through to the JFK assassination. Along the way, Keith wonders if Jack Parsons wasn't assassinated as well, for allegedly providing Hughes Aircraft documents to the Israelis.



In "The Call to Chaos" in Apocalypse Culture, Downard explains, "The third degree of 'Blue' (basic) Freemasonry, and more particularly the ninth degree of Scottish Rite work, embody symbolical assassination and death ritual; but in GAOTU [the Great Architect of the Universe] operations they go in for the real McCoy: heavy snuff stuff."

The Kennedy assassination was performed at Dealey Plaza, the location of the first Masonic temple in Dallas. "Security" for the Kennedy motorcade was supplied by the New Orleans CIA office, with headquarters in a Masonic temple building. Dealey Plaza is located near the Trinity River, and Kennedy's motorcade headed for the Triple Underpass, both references symbolic of the Masonic triangle and number three fixation. In what may have been a symbolic dramatization of the Masonic Hiram Abif legend of assassination by three "unworthy craftsmen," after the Kennedy murder three "hoboes" were paraded in front of cameras by the Dallas police (one of the "hoboes" alleged to be E. Howard Hunt of the CIA), then the three were quickly released without record of their identity. In Masonic lore assassins travel in threes.


Chapter 12, The Year of Light, describes an hypothetical supernova that appeared about 6,000 years ago in the southern sky and was recorded on Sumerian tablets as occurring in a triangle bounded by the stars Zeta Puppis, Gamma Velorum and Lambda Velorum, hence the Eye in the Pyramid, and likely the "Nation of the Third Eye" as well.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ynkv0i.jpg

Keith notes:



This means, interestingly enough, that the Sumerians set the date for the reappearance of the supernova in about the year 2000 A.D. Strong evidence, it seems to me, that the Freemasons probably see the turn of the next century as having a pivotal significance in their mythic history of the world. Taking into account what seem to be the secret purposes of the Freemasons and other allied secret societies, there are certainly many speculations that could be made about what the nature of that significance might entail.

...

Aside from the dark catalog of covert manipulation that I have compiled in these pages, I will not delude you into thinking that I am certain that the Freemasons are planning on overthrowing the world system on or about the year 2000 A.D. I do not even know for certain whether this is the date planned for the final consolidation of governmental systems into the New World Order. All I know is that the twists and turns of history are covered with the bloody fingerprints of Freemasons and members of allied secret societies who have intervened at key moments to turn the flow of history in hitherto unanticipated directions, and that everything points to the year 2000 as being an epic culmination in the mythology of these secret groups.
...

The event which may prompt the placing of the key piece in the Novus Ordo Seculorum pyramid, the missing capstone, the culmination of the Fool's journey of the Tarot, may well be the catastrophic collapse of the U.S. economic system. The collapse of the U.S. currency and the stock market, as prefigured by the recent crises in the Orient, may well be the straws that will break the American Phoenix's back.

...

Regardless of whether there are any bigheaded grey aliens in the bleachers for the gala coronation, whether or not the occultists at the top are able to launch a fleet of UFO-style flying disks to perform synchronized aerobatics over the newly-rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem, wouldn't the appearance of a singularly impressive stellar display, a supernova flaring forth in the midst of a triangle composed of three stars, be a wonderfully impressive and awfully convenient harbinger of the Illuminati World King?



The final portion of the book reissued in 2004 is called UFOs at the Edge of Reality, A lecture delivered in Atlanta, Georgia, November, 1995. Keith speaks about an in-between reality, a "Secret Commonwealth" where mind, matter and ETs meet. He lays out his reasons for thinking that a number of ritual magicians have engaged in sorcery rather than magic, i.e., they have furthered the cause of the mind control programs. Earlier in the book Keith talks about the Masons' self-image as the primal builders, and connects it with Dick's Builders in VALIS. Dick's Builders are basically benign creatures secretly directing history toward a good end. But Dick also appeals to gnosticism and especially the material in the Chenoboskion codices, as the answer to the conundrum of the imperfect/unperfected world, as the individual' salvation and the world tikkun, while that very same corpus decries active participation in the process of creation, casts aspersions and insults on the "world-builders" and seems to recommend that the Fall of da'ath be remedied by a drawing out of the sparks of the Godhead from the created world prior to a final destruction by fire of all matter. Was Dick being hypocritical, or had he received the gnosis as co-opted by the Freemasons, a sort of "lost and now found Word" with certain exceptions made for political figures and activities? Keith doesn't belabor the contradiction and references his earlier thesis (from the earlier editions of Saucers on a number of points suggesting a Freemason/Illuminati/Ritual Magick origin for many of the UFO experiences.

Keith also describes (twice) his own expierience with a grey:



The second encounter was about four years later, in 1972. By this time I had knocked off the mescaline and LSD. Now, this was in the days before Whitley Streiber, and the media hadn't really latched on to grey aliens. But I woke up in the middle of the night in Los Angeles with one of these guys, the prototypical alien grey, staring me in the face, right up close. It terrified me, and I jumped out of bed and ran out of my bedroom into the living room. When I returned to the bedroom the visitor was gone.

I put this experience aside for twenty years, until I read the book Communion, which verified certain details of the experience, the primary one being the color and texture of the creature's skin... which was not grey, but blue grey, with the texture and reflective quality of clay... plasticine. That verification of detail was what made the needle swing over toward "close encounter" rather than "particularly vivid dream." I don't have those types of dreams. My nightmares don't feature aliens... and so now I am willing to accept that this might have been an actual encounter, one which may have taken place at the edge; at the edge of manifestation.


The book ends with some plates of photographs of an alien implant device, blueprints for an underground military base and assorted other saucer-related material.

Keith died after he bumped his knee at the Burning Man festival in 1999 and was hospitalized, as Thomas recounts in the foreword. Kenn Thomas and Jim Keith were part of the 'zine scene "before the internet broke" and did a lot of writing on paranormal politics. Keith wrote for Thomas's Steamshovel Press frequently. Keith was also good friends with recently-deceased Jerry E. Smith, another writer on parapolitics as well as an SF writer who was a member of the Los Angeles Science Fiction Club (where L. Ron Hubbard was a member, and supposedly met Jack Parsons via a fellow member there). Smith died on March 8 of 2010 after suffering pancreatic cancer. Smith was published by Adventures Unlimited Press. Smith was WEX (World Explorers Club in Kempton, Illinois) manager and Adventures Unlimited office manager. Hubbard belonged to an organization with almost the same name (Explorers' Club) based in New York in the 1940s (according to wikipedia: "Hubbard was accepted as a member of The Explorers Club on February 19, 1940") and sailed under their auspices from Seattle to Alaska (he set sail for Alaska "on 27 July 1940", according to the official Church of Scientology version, "wherein he not only conducted landmark studies of Pacific Coast Indian tribes, but also pioneered a long range navigation system employed along all sea and air lanes into the latter decades of the 20th century." Hubbard later told stories of breaking up an espionage ring involving enemy submarines there, a plot which was used for at least one radio drama around that time. Coincidentally there was a long-running radio drama series called either World Adventurers Club or Strange Adventures in Strange Lands--experts argue over which title is correct--that aired in North America and Australia duing the same time period, late 30s-mid-40s). Keith belonged to Avatar, a Scientology splinter group, while Smith had left Scientology altogether.

Keith's book is very good and available on scribd.com

(all emphases in book quotes above added by me)

David Guyatt
05-06-2010, 02:00 PM
Many thank for this Helen, it sounds more than interesting and I look forward to reading the pdf.

The book appears to cover a lot of ground and also touches upon some curious, if not distinctly curious subjects, like the Fall of Daath, regarded as the 11th Sephiroth of the Tree of Life, which according to certain schools is the emerging Sephiroth.

It can be no accident that Daath is represented - on the lower (the material or manifest world) pulse of the four worlds of Qabalistic doctrine, namely Aslyah/Assiah as being associated with Sirius, the Dog Star. More interesting is that the associated colour of this World of Aslyah/Assiah is Grey.

From this I think it is conceivable to conclude that the entire edifice of grey aliens has a distinct Qabalistic flavour, and my conclusions would be that this is pointing us towards emerging consciousness of we humans.

We must just hope that this comes about before we blow ourselves to merry hell and back, I suppose...

Keith Millea
05-06-2010, 02:43 PM
Keith died after he bumped his knee at the Burning Man festival in 1999 and was hospitalized, as Thomas recounts in the foreword.

Helen,
Can you possibly expand a little more on this episode?Bumping your knee is not usually a death wound.But then,I'm sure there are some very strange things that happen at Burning Man......:bebored:

Keith Millea
05-07-2010, 02:59 AM
OK,I've done some reading on Jim Keith.It appears that he fell off of a stage at Burning man,and broke his leg.He later developed a blood clot in the hospital that traveled into his lung,which is what killed him.Then there are other theories of conspiracy concerning his research about Princess Di.:stupido2:

Helen Reyes
05-07-2010, 01:09 PM
David: I didn't actually see da'ath mentioned anywhere in the book. I just used it for shorthand to describe what Dick calls, ex Plato, "the streak of the irrational in the world-soul." Jim Keith does use the Hebrew word tikkun, however, the restoration or healing of the world. I was merely pointing out a contradiction in Dick's book, or mind, between pure Nag Hamadi gnosticism and the Builders, whom Jim Keith probably very correctly associates with the Masons, which strengthens Keith's argument Dick was zapped with some sort of Masonic worldview, comprehensive enough to include the gnosis as the Masonic Lost Word.

One thing Jim Keith does focus on is the identity of Crowley's Lam, and the classic image of the greys, and another person, a voodoo priest from Haiti who joined the OTO and moved to America and started some new cult, of The Black Snake or something like that, and this man claimed to be in contact with AC's Lam. The voodoo character was the only new element I noticed in Keith's treatment of Lam and the greys.

Keith: It really is strange, whether it was a bloodclot or some new hospital superbacteria. The chances on a bloodclot travelling that far are not really good, a billion to one or whatever. I read Jim Keith had said at the Burning Man he was hoping to investigate the red-haired sasquatch reported in the area, the things mentioned, I surmise, in the Secrets of the Mojave document. Jim Keith also reportedly had told friends if he went to the hospital for this, he'd never leave alive. I think Kenn Thomas was probably very close to him and of course there is that initial shock after a friend dies where you refuse to believe it, but I think it goes deeper than that, because the circumstances are so strange. I didn't know he was on the trail of the Princess Di conspiracy, all I've read is about the mysterious red-haired bigfoots said to inhabit parts of Nevada and probably the adjacent area in So.Cal. I seem to remember them in connection with that famous UFO contactee venue in the desert, what was it called? Giant Rock? The one that split in two a few years back. The memory might be false, I'm really not a very good UFOlogist and can't keep most of it sorted out. When I was looking up some stuff regarding this Jim Keith book I happened across a small book by Manley P Hall on the flying saucer phenomenon. It largely supports Jim Keith's thesis. It's called The Case of the Flying Saucers and is available at the Manley P. Hall archive site,
http://www.manlyphall.org/text/the-case-of-the-flying-saucers/



The device in all probability is some highly specialized scientific structure intended to advance research. The device itself may not be the project, but some means of testing for something else, but whether it is a means to an end, or is the end itself, it is almost certainly humanly guided, humanly devised, and is being advanced in the unfoldment of necessary research into the great and powerful potentials of the planet. Beyond that I think we shall simply have to wait until Uncle Sam decides to talk, and anyone who talks before that would be doing every one concerned a great unkindness.


Hall was a 33 Mason, but sort of an honourary one, he hadn't risen up through the ranks but was knowledgable enough he didn't need to. Who financed his trips around the world isn't very clear. He operated around the same time as Nicholas Roersch, the Russian who reported back to Truman on spiritual phenomenon in Central Asia and India before settling down to work for Indian-Russian cultural ties in India seemingly on behalf of the early Soviet Union he had earlier fled. Hall had been a banker for a while, and might have had relatives in the NY banking community. He has pretty well hidden who his parents were until the present, and was raised by his grandmother.

Keith Millea
05-07-2010, 03:40 PM
>In 1998, one of my Sufi contacts, who chooses to remain anonymous,
travelled
>to London to participate in Dhikr, a remembrance of Allah. This ritual was
>attended by both Sufis and orthodox Muslims. My contact reports that while
>participating in this ceremony, he met Dodi Fayed's personal physician, a
man
>who is a Muslim, but is not a Sufi. In private conversation, the physician
>told him that Diana and Dodi Fayed had planned on getting married, and that
>he had personally examined her and determined that she was pregnant.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/read/20193

Jim Keith was writing that Princess Di was pregnant.Hey,that might get you killed,but who knows.......

Helen,
I'm not too much involved in UFO stuff.Actually,my youngest son is very much interested in these things.So,I'm out of my league here.

Clostridium seems to be a botulism bug,that has been found to cause cases of food poisoning,which is what killed Ron Bonds.It should be noted that Clostridium is also a bio-weapon.Great stuff for conspiracies and rumors,but I don't know.:dontknow:
One other thing to mention is that my mother developed blood clots in her leg that eventually traveled up into her lung and killed her.So,it is indeed very possible that this is how Jim Keith died.Yeah,a lot of strange things to consider in this story.

Helen Reyes
05-07-2010, 09:36 PM
Yeah I can't pin anything down here, and much less in general concerning UFOs, which are interesting but I have no real information to offer.

I had heard Di was pregnant with Dodi's child before.

If Jim Keith had decided not to seek medical treatment, would his blood clot have taken another route less deadly? I know these things happen, and sometimes your blood clots during a long air journey because of the pressure and the lack of movement. Thrombulism? I forget the term. Anything's possible.

What I found really fascinating is that Jim Keith wrote this back in, oops I forgot the year now, 1992? 94? And what he's writing then is still being discovered now, the connexion between Crowley's astral creature and the greys, different connexions between mind control, UFOs and the one-world government project. He also seems to be a bit more sober about it all than some of the present-day writers on the same topics, not to name any names, but even some of the old JFK researchers who should know better fall for some pretty tenuous connexions in their newer writings. Jim Keith seems to have really researched and thought at least somewhat critically about what he writes. It's also sort of discouraging that we're still at the same place he was two decades ago and haven't advanced much. Purely subjective observations on my part.

David Guyatt
05-08-2010, 08:37 AM
Thanks for your response Helen. Great find on the Manly Hall UFO piece btw.

The following is extracted from Keith's book re Lam etc:


There are further symbolic linkages on this speculative trail
that may or may not lead to the stars. At the beginning of this
century, contact with the Sirius star system was claimed by the
occultist Lucien-Francois Jean-Maine who, through the famous
occultist Papus, learned the rituals of the Ordo Templi Orientis
lodge, founded by Aleister Crowley, and formed his own group in
his native Haiti. Jean-Maine is said to have in 1922 combined the
OTO rituals with voodoo practices to form the Cult of the Black
Snake in Haiti. He also claimed to be in contact with a disembodied
being or voodoo loa named Lam, an entity who OTO Grand Master
Kenneth Grant said was one of the Great Old Ones, an elder as well
as eldritch god nigh-identical with those portrayed by the American
horror writer H.P. Lovecraft in the 1920s and 30s.
Lam, according to Grant, has the task of uniting the current
that emanates from the Andromeda galaxy with the current that
flows from Sirius. Grant believed that a dimensional portal exists in
the Andromeda galaxy, and through this portal will enter the Old
Ones, demonic entities intent on returning Earth to their dominion
and having humanity for breakfast.
Prior to Jean-Maine's contact with Lam, the famous occultist
and founder of the OTO Aleister Crowley reported that he had
summoned the same entity through one of his own "magickal"
workings. Crowley also penned a drawing of Lam, reprinted in
Kenneth Grant's The Magical Revival, adding another strange
dimension to the now inter-dimensional puzzle.
Crowley portrays the entity Lam as a prototypical big-headed
"Gray," i.e. as the picture of modern popular conceptions about what
a UFO alien is supposed to look like. Crowley, relates Grant, also
"unequivocally identifies his Holy Guardian Angel with Sothis
(Sirius), or Set-Isis." The obvious connection here is the significance
of Sirius, although the Ordo Templi Orientis lodge, Crowley, and
Lam also have their own special relevance.

From this I think we n again see that the Qabalistic Sephiroth Daath is all over the story of Lam, Grey aiens and Sirius. In fact it is this Sephiroth Daath that is said to be the gateway from the Tree of Life into it's dark reflection, its antithesis in fact, known as the Tree of Evil - and usually referred to as the world of the so called "Shells" or the "Qlippoth" (to purloin the Qabalistic name for it). The following link provides some small insights into this (http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/imuhtuk/gdmans/kliph.htm) subject. However, it is interesting to note that the following (http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/q/qlippoth.html) states:


Qlippoth, Hebrew, "shells, husks," is a term in the Kabbalah tradition means "Lords of Unbalanced Powers" referring to demonic entities from a former universe who survived in the present one.

This is why it strikes me that the whole subject of UFO's, namely the development of advanced Nazi aircraft by he US and others, has also woven into it the subject of Qlippothic magic -- not least because the Nazi's were deeply engaged in Black Sun research which delves in these unwholesome areas. And when we add to this equation NASA giants like Crowleyian Jack Parsons, then we can assume that this trend continued after WWII.

Helen Reyes
05-08-2010, 11:32 AM
This is why it strikes me that the whole subject of UFO's, namely the development of advanced Nazi aircraft by he US and others, has also woven into it the subject of Qlippothic magic -- not least because the Nazi's were deeply engaged in Black Sun research which delves in these unwholesome areas. And when we add to this equation NASA giants like Crowleyian Jack Parsons, then we can assume that this trend continued after WWII.

Parsons and Hubbard were re-enacting Dee and Kelley's Enochian rituals with Parsons in Dee's role, Dee whom Keith says was the original 007 and the founder of British intelligence. Interesting coincidence of Enochian practitioners at the very genesis of powerful organizations, JPL leading more or less directly to NASA.

Hekhalot mysticism (or Merkavah) mirrors the ascent of the soul through the lower heavens, or the archons, of gnosticism, to the upper realms of light. The qlippoth powers described in the Golden Dawn material linked above are a good description of the gnostic concept of the archons, even down to the names. There's no reason to suppose hakhalot sprang whole-cloth after the destruction of Harod's temple in AD 70, it probably had earlier roots that gave rise to both Christianity and Jewish gnostic schools that later incorporated parts of the Christian gnosis, i.e., accepted Jesus as a relevant teacher rather than rejecting him as a heretic schismatic who had broken away from the true teaching and had popularized a warped version of the doctrine and practice of spiritual liberation via some sort of hekhalot/merkavah mysticism and speculation.

The system of gates--which HP Lovecraft uses in his fiction, "outer gates"--involved knowing the name of the powers and certain passwords, or answers to accusations or riddles. The lower powers comprised the seven heavens. The archons and aeons can be called, simply, "angels," for the sake of simplicity. Dee's scrying is probably a rediscovery of this practice, probably via kabbalah brought to Europe in the Jewish exile and probably first revealed more widely in book form in Spain in Aramaic. Kabbala is really supposed to be an oral tradition, just as early Christianity and Christian gnosis was an oral tradition that frowned on the "diminished word," i.e., the words written down in codices and on scrolls.

Ravecroft's Spear of Destiny gives a lot of space to Steiner's conviction Hitler was actively channelling a demonic power, one who was more politically astute than Hitler was.

The really early UFO accounts in North America--Roswell and related--do seem to me to be consistent with Black Sun imagery, little dark men like Niebelungen piloting craft powered by some dark light... There is also the matter of reports of an Oriental script witnessed on the Roswell craft, not definitely identified as Chinese or Japanese, or anything else, for that matter. Was it Enochian script? If the mystics working for the Third Reich really did channel technical information from entities claiming to be from Sirius or wherever it was, and this technical information was succesfully implemented in practice as flying saucer technology, are these entities related to the entity Rudolph Steiner perceived as pulling Hitler's strings? And what, exactly, was Crowley doing in the British MI5's Occult Department for the war effort, besides astral-projecting to the Fuehrerbunker and eavesdropping in on snippets of speech? And if the foo fighters appeared during WWII, what were the pre-war UFOs over Scandinavia all about, and why did they communicate with control towers in broken Swedish? Is it all some sort of elaborate Sirian joke?

David Guyatt
05-08-2010, 11:44 AM
I meant to add (but had to go out) that concerning the Qlippoth and the link I provided above (namely http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/imuhtuk/gdmans/kliph.htm ), that the order of "Evil Chiefs" (the "Old Ones" I suppose?) is listed as follows:

1. Kether Satan and Moloch

2. Binah Beelzebub

3. Chokmah Lucifuge

4. Chesed Ashtaroth

5. Geburah Asmodeus

6. Tiphareth Belphagor

7. Netzach Baal

8. Hod Adramalech

9. Yesod Lilith

10. Malkuth Nahemah

One of these "Chiefs" (in particular) has featured on this forum a number of times before. I refer to Moloch, who is symbolized by the Owl (who sees, lives and breathes in darkness) and who features as the object of worship in the annual ritual by those who numerous elite shakers and movers who attend the Bohemian Grove in California.

Nice to know the object of adoration of those who rule us isn't it.

Helen Reyes
05-08-2010, 07:11 PM
pg. 77



In Isis/Osiris veneration, we can see the beginnings of the ritual trappings of the Mystery Religions that were to follow. One reason that the Greek and Roman Mystery Religions are mysterious is that little is known of what actually took place in their rites, celebrated primarily at night and in caves. We do know that Mystery Religions were the source of many of the practices that were taken up by later secret societies including the Freemasons, and that they partook--practices varying somewhat from one Mystery group to the next--of secret ritual initiation involving dramatizations of the lives of the gods, the imbibing of psychedelic drugs such as magic mushrooms, sex orgies (with an emphasis on homosexuality), and at least in some instances, human sacrifice. The symbology of "light" pervades the Mystery Religions, adepts having been said to "have seen the light," "had their eyes opened," and so forth, all very appropriate to celebrants who enacted their rites in the dead of night in caves. Light = Illumination = Illuminati.

From the Mystery Religions, which were extremely influential upon the tenets of Christianity, came the philosophies of the Gnostics, composed of a number of secretive European sects, the most prominent perhaps being the highly secretive, perhaps even fictional, Priory of Sion.

Again, we know very little of what the actual practices of the early Gnostics were, but we do know that the Sun God/Mother Goddess orientation had in certain cases taken on a more philosophical bent, dealing with the eternal cosmic war between darkness and light. Again, the motif of "illumination" is represented. A recent translation of a document of the Cathars, perhaps the most prominent of the Gnostic groups, suggests that one of their secrets was that they were a straightforward Isis cult.

The Jewish/Gnostic mystical practice of the Qabalah, whose origin may have been about the time of Jesus or shortly after, was a primary influence on a number of secret society tributaries, including the Rosicrucians and the Knights Templar. Qabalism was also the singular greatest philosophical influence on the Freemasons, which in the mid-1700s evolved a return to an overt Sun God/Mother Goddess mythology, along with an emphasis in their practices on the importance of the star Sirius. Freemasonry, aside from being an essentially Gnostic religion, has comprised since its inception a vastly important influence in world politics and in world intelligence agencies, and may be the most active and far-reaching of the Illuminati fronts at the present time.

Freemasonry and the Rothschilds international banking group (the Rothschilds being from the beginning of their dynasty Freemasons) were the main influence on diamond magnate and Freemason Cecil Rhodes' Round Table secret society, formed around the turn of this century. Rhodes was the single most important Freemasonic spearhead into world political control. Currently we may note the Trilateral Commission (with their symbolic "666" triangular emblem and orientation), the Council on Foreign Relations, and the Bilderberger Society as being among the most influential organization on this planet; these sprung from the Round Table group.

While I am limited in space in this thumbnail sketch, it is very possible to trace the twistings and turnings of the Illuminist philosophy until we encounter the secret Freemasonic rituals of the elitist leaders of today, men like George Bush of the Skull and Bones German Illuminati offshoot, Henry Kissinger and Alexander Haig, alleged to be members of the Freemasonic P-2 group, and in all probability the (Cecil) Rhodes scholar, Trilateralist, and saxophone player from Little Rock, Arkansas, the highly symbolic Masonic location where the arch-Mason Albert Pike formulated his schemes.


Maybe Carpocrates was right about the pornography being excised from Secret Mark, even if he was taking a bit of a swipe at Moses with his moniker. Minerva was the owl, though, and Moloch something else, I guess. The Bohemian Club got it wrong or intentionally mixed it up.

David Guyatt
05-09-2010, 09:41 AM
Minerva was the owl, though, and Moloch something else, I guess. The Bohemian Club got it wrong or intentionally mixed it up.

Oddly enough Helen, I looked at this a couple of months ago when I was looking into the Grove - because I also had always associated the owl symbolism with wisdom etc.

I think confusion arises because symbols often, if not usually have both a negative and a positive aspect to them. Arthur's sword can be used to "hack or to heal" as John Boorman wrote for utterance by the Merlin his film Excalibur.

The owl symbol associated with Moloch seems to me to symbolize the dark/negative aspect, whereas the "wisdom" symbolism of the owl associated with Minerva has a more positive rhythm, I think.

The whole Rhodes thing has been a sort of splinter in my side for decades and I do find it interesting what Keith had to say about it. For some while now I have concluded that Freemasonry has a similar structure to it that Rhodes had adopted for his secret society, namely three levels or concentric circles of power. The outer court of the multitude, a middle court of selected individuals who may be forgiven for thinking that they are really in-the-loop and finally the inner court of half a dozen or so real movers and shakers. I know (and have known many Freemasons) and they are all good, honest people, no different from you or me. But this does not seems to tally with some of the things that can be attributed to Masonry. Thus I have concluded that there is a filtering system to suck likely masons out of the outer court and into the middle court for more nefarious purposes.

Helen Reyes
05-09-2010, 03:41 PM
Well sure, symbols are fluid and can mean whatever people want them to mean, and the owl was a symbol of evil or Satan in the Middle Ages in Europe, I think Bosch uses them that way in his paintings as well. Have not looked into it but heard the Bohemians called their owl Moloch, while Moloch in the Bible is the deity to whom some group sacrificed their children. I don't remember an owl involved, but have no real idea.

Cecil Rhodes is a very interesting figure but I haven't done the research needed to be able to say anything about him. I always associate him with the Smithsonian, the Rhodes scholarships, Rhodesia, the attempt to retake the American colonies for the crown and so on. Wasn't he gay as well, and didn't he start the roudtable groups in the US? In Uri Andrija Puharich tells the story of how the senator from Washington state Henry "Scoop" Jackson presented him a liberty silver dollar (or half dollar?) as a memento to mark their creation of Puharich's Round Table research organization. The coin eventually enters hyperspace in the famous legerdemaine the Men In Black like to practice and ends up in Puharich's hotel in Israel or somewhere odd. Unrelated except for the Round Table reference. Arthurian I suppose.

David Guyatt
05-10-2010, 06:29 PM
Yep, he was gay and started the Roundtable. BUt whether he was personally involved in the US Roundtable I don't know.

Quigley's two important book, Tragedy & Hope, and The Anglo-American Establishment, are probably the best available source of inside information on Rhodes and the Rhodes "Group" which is a sister of the Skull & Bones and also the German Illuminati. Quigley personally agreed with the secret aims of the Group and, because of his serious academic clout and close association with them was given free access to all their confidential and secret archives - thus the above books. But in Tragedy & Hope he published far more than he should've done and for that error was sent to purgatory for the rest of his days. Never again would a mainstream publisher touch his work; he was effectively destroyed and the plates of T & G were secretly ruined by his own publisher after the first print run - a mere couple of thousand copies - and almost all of these were bought by agents of the Group and disappeared from libraries etc.

Quigley later said that this was all due to just 15 pages of the book that revealed information about the Group that should not have been revealed.

Helen Reyes
05-11-2010, 09:30 AM
An anonymous book appeared in a limited run and was later digitized and put on the internet, that goes into some detail on the relationship between Lovecraft's fictional Old Ones and their correspondences with the Dukes of Edom, da'ath, etc. "Blind idiot god" is straight out of gnosticism, Ialdaboath; Lovecraft plays with the concept. It mentions the witches' "Man in Black" as well, who appears in Lovecraft's Dreams in the Witch-House. It's all an interesting coincidence, if nothing more, that Lovecraft stumbled onto existing traditions possibly unknowingly. He also had several references to the Pillars of Irem, which Idries Shah somewhere talks about as a real Islamic tradition. I guess that's why Robert Anton Wilson called him the "world's most dangerous man" or something like that in the Illuminatus! trilogy.

I hadn't realied T&G was suppressed. Now I'll have to finally read it!

Isn't it true Rhodes found the Smithsonian Institution? I remember reading that, but none of the people involved in exposing the Roundtable seem to latch onto the fact, or at least I haven't noticed. I believe Jim Keith mentions some military vans involved in abductions in Montana with "Smithsonian Institute" written on their sides. More coincidence?

Malcolm Pryce
05-11-2010, 04:34 PM
I bought a copy of Tragedy & Hope online not that long ago. I guess the shadow elite gave up suppressing it. They must have realised that hardly anyone in the world would have the strength of purpose to actually read it. I know I haven't. I don't suppose Quigley said which the offending fifteen pages were so I could just read the naughty bits?

Jan Klimkowski
05-11-2010, 04:48 PM
I bought a copy of Tragedy & Hope online not that long ago. I guess the shadow elite gave up suppressing it. They must have realised that hardly anyone in the world would have the strength of purpose to actually read it. I know I haven't. I don't suppose Quigley said which the offending fifteen pages were so I could just read the naughty bits?

Malcolm - thank you very much for that.

David - any clues as to the offending 15 pages?



Isn't it true Rhodes found the Smithsonian Institution? I remember reading that, but none of the people involved in exposing the Roundtable seem to latch onto the fact, or at least I haven't noticed. I believe Jim Keith mentions some military vans involved in abductions in Montana with "Smithsonian Institute" written on their sides. More coincidence?

The Smithsonian was founded orginally by a grant from a well-connected Brit called.... rather predictably... Smithson. Wiki entry here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Smithson

There have long been allegations that many of the giant skeletons found in North and South American burial mounds ended up buried in the basements of the Smithsonian...

David Guyatt
05-11-2010, 04:48 PM
I hadn't realied T&G was suppressed. Now I'll have to finally read it!



At a little over 1200 pages, be careful you don't suffer tendon strain lifting the damn thing. :laugh: Personally speaking I found the book quite interesting from the historical perspective.

Thanks for the .pdf's which I've saved for a rainy day.

Which will probably be soon since Summer is due anytime now, now that Winter has kidnapped the Spring.

Malcolm, I think a copy was somehow obtained and printed by one of the flourishing band of small, privately owned publishers who specialize in bringing back from death important books.

I think the naughty bits are fairly early on in the tomb. My copy is now in storage or I'd tell you which the pages are. But check the index and just follow anything that has Rhodes and Milner's name in it.

I seem to recall the really important thing was about the 1930's merchant bankers and how they organized the BIS as a private club for bankers to take control of the economies in all major nations with the aim of making the political process subject to their wishes and needs. I'm paraphrasing naturally, but if this sounds familiar I suppose it's because it is...

Malcolm Pryce
05-11-2010, 04:55 PM
David, thanks for that. I'll definitely have to make the effort to read it. Just as soon as I've found a replacement door stop

Helen Reyes
05-11-2010, 08:27 PM
The Smithsonian was founded orginally by a grant from a well-connected Brit called.... rather predictably... Smithson. Wiki entry here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Smithson

There have long been allegations that many of the giant skeletons found in North and South American burial mounds ended up buried in the basements of the Smithsonian...

Hmm, I must've dreamt that one up once upon a time. Thanks for setting me straight.

Big books don't scare me, but I prefer when they're on paper, because reading too long on the screen makes my neck sore. I found multiple copies of T&H for free on the internet. It looks like rainy days ahead here as well, so might get to it.

Charles Drago
05-11-2010, 09:24 PM
Angelology, by Danielle Trusonni, is a novel that has received rave reviews from the likes of the New York Times "Book Review" and has been optioned by Will Smith for very big bucks.

It's right out of Dan Brown, but -- relatively speaking -- literate and thought-provoking.

In terms of our shared interests and discussions is Trusonni's fictional nomination of the Nephilim -- the offspring of fallen angels and humans -- to the collective role commonly played by the Illuminati or Masons or Dixons or ...

She has them marrying into the most powerful European families and wresting control of human destiny. And her Nephilim are the "giants" of our mythology.

Or is it mythology?

Spiritual conspiracy theory has found a public voice -- and a damn powerful one at that. This books warrants our attention.

It's all very smartly done.

Magda Hassan
05-12-2010, 12:21 AM
Big books don't scare me, but I prefer when they're on paper, because reading too long on the screen makes my neck sore. I found multiple copies of T&H for free on the internet. It looks like rainy days ahead here as well, so might get to it.
I think we have it here on the forum in the books section. I know we have something from Quigley there.

David Guyatt
05-12-2010, 08:11 AM
Angelology, by Danielle Trusonni, is a novel that has received rave reviews from the likes of the New York Times "Book Review" and has been optioned by Will Smith for very big bucks.

It's right out of Dan Brown, but -- relatively speaking -- literate and thought-provoking.

In terms of our shared interests and discussions is Trusonni's fictional nomination of the Nephilim -- the offspring of fallen angels and humans -- to the collective role commonly played by the Illuminati or Masons or Dixons or ...

She has them marrying into the most powerful European families and wresting control of human destiny. And her Nephilim are the "giants" of our mythology.

Or is it mythology?

Spiritual conspiracy theory has found a public voice -- and a damn powerful one at that. This books warrants our attention.

It's all very smartly done.

That's has to be one on my get list then Charlie. The whole subject of the Nephilim is an intriguing one imo, and the concept of the powerful European families you mention seems to strike a chord - especially when we read articles by Joel van den Reijden and others (the Dutroux Affair and the Establishment players involved)

PS, never let it be said I'm not a compulsive beast. I've just bought it!

And a note for Helen. Even though it didn't rain, I read the essay on the Cults of Cthulhu last nigh (and am part way through the Parker Ryan piece too). It completely ghasts my flabber why anyone would wish to revert to those apparent times of pre-history when bloody, dripping chaos such as this was the order of the day. But they do. It's sheer madness.

Charles Drago
05-12-2010, 12:11 PM
While you're in a buying frenzy, David, you might consider The Mind Parasites, by Colin Wilson.

This homage to Lovecraft marries the Cthulhu mythos to traditional science fiction conceits.

And its "explanation" of the source of human misery is ... acid flashback time ... cosmic, man.

David Guyatt
05-12-2010, 03:34 PM
Thanks Charlie.

Oddly enough, the Parker Ryan .pdf that Helen linked discussed Colin Wilson briefly, albeit not in a particularly good light so far as his scholarly abilities were concerned re Lovecraft. I was, however, quite impressed with Ryan's ability. I read some of Wilson's books thirty odd years ago but frankly haven't remembered much about them now.

But then I don't remember much of anything after the first 2 bottles of Beaune...

Charles Drago
05-12-2010, 05:18 PM
Two bottles?

Who has the time?

I was remiss in not noting that The Mind Parasites is a novel.

Charlie (hic)

Helen Reyes
05-16-2010, 10:56 AM
Is Mind Parasites the alternate title for Space Vampires? I read the latter but it didn't strike me as deeply Lovecraftian in any way, although I know Colin Wilson even authored his own version of the Necronomicon so he is presumably a fan of some sort. His Occult was very good imho, much better than his science fiction vampire story, but I could never finish his Philosopher's Stone.

On nephilim and angels, it's interesting to note the appearance of giants in Britain in the time set before the arrival of the Trojans in I think it was Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanni, the Cyclops in Homer and Tartarus, "an abyss under Hades where the Titans were imprisoned, Latin, from Greek Tartaros, of obscure origin," which is probably cognate, imho, with the Tartaro giant cycle in Basque legend, see http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/basque/bl/index.htm ... There is a regal connexion, just as there is an aristocratic connexion in Peter Levenda's version of Andrija Puharich's The Nine.

I think Springmeier talks about this sort of unholy alliance between people and demonic forces in Bloodlines, doesn't he? Something about demonic alien vibrations becoming encoded in the genetics of certain families...

On the return to barbarity, I'm not sure Lovecraft saw it that way, he was probably more interested in the idea of escaping the confines of time. He managed to escape the real barbarity in any case, because he died in 1937, before we learned what modern people are fully capable of doing to one another. Or maybe I didn't understand David's point precisely.

Charles Drago
05-16-2010, 07:41 PM
Is Mind Parasites the alternate title for Space Vampires?

No.

By the way, I live less than a mile from Lovecraft's Providence home at 10 Barnes Street and about three miles from his last resting place in Swan Point Cemetary.

Jan Klimkowski
05-16-2010, 08:41 PM
I think Springmeier talks about this sort of unholy alliance between people and demonic forces in Bloodlines, doesn't he? Something about demonic alien vibrations becoming encoded in the genetics of certain families...



Helen - be careful with Springmeier. He's a dangerous man.

Last time I heard anything, he'd dumped his "Monarch marionette" Cisco Wheeler, and was allegedly in a federal witness programme about to testify with regard to armed robberies by a far right, false flag, anti-abortion, "christian patriot" group calling themselves the "Army of God".

Also, nearly every word of Springmeier's was rubbish he'd stolen and misunderstood.

Helen Reyes
05-17-2010, 09:22 AM
Charles, I guess he also lived at 454 Angell Street, but the numbers might have changed. Is there much Lovecraft tourism these days? He seems to be getting more and more popular.



Helen - be careful with Springmeier. He's a dangerous man.

Last time I heard anything, he'd dumped his "Monarch marionette" Cisco Wheeler, and was allegedly in a federal witness programme about to testify with regard to armed robberies by a far right, false flag, anti-abortion, "christian patriot" group calling themselves the "Army of God".

Also, nearly every word of Springmeier's was rubbish he'd stolen and misunderstood.

Thanks, Jan. I never trusted Fritz or his methods.

Charles Drago
05-17-2010, 12:07 PM
Helen,

Barnes and Angell Streets are separate and distinct.

Lovecraft tours continue to be offered. He is to Providence what Poe is to Baltimore -- and of course Poe also prowled the same neighborhood in which Lovecraft lived and worked.

Something in the water, perhaps.

David Guyatt
05-17-2010, 12:19 PM
Is Mind Parasites the alternate title for Space Vampires? I read the latter but it didn't strike me as deeply Lovecraftian in any way, although I know Colin Wilson even authored his own version of the Necronomicon so he is presumably a fan of some sort. His Occult was very good imho, much better than his science fiction vampire story, but I could never finish his Philosopher's Stone.

On nephilim and angels, it's interesting to note the appearance of giants in Britain in the time set before the arrival of the Trojans in I think it was Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanni, the Cyclops in Homer and Tartarus, "an abyss under Hades where the Titans were imprisoned, Latin, from Greek Tartaros, of obscure origin," which is probably cognate, imho, with the Tartaro giant cycle in Basque legend, see http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/basque/bl/index.htm ... There is a regal connexion, just as there is an aristocratic connexion in Peter Levenda's version of Andrija Puharich's The Nine.

I think Springmeier talks about this sort of unholy alliance between people and demonic forces in Bloodlines, doesn't he? Something about demonic alien vibrations becoming encoded in the genetics of certain families...

On the return to barbarity, I'm not sure Lovecraft saw it that way, he was probably more interested in the idea of escaping the confines of time. He managed to escape the real barbarity in any case, because he died in 1937, before we learned what modern people are fully capable of doing to one another. Or maybe I didn't understand David's point precisely.

(my bolding)

Helen, I know too little about Lovecraft to make real judgements about him, but there are others of the ilk of Crowley etc., who seem to positively wish to turn the clock back and recapture the "Old Ones". A serious Qabalist would eventually, and when sufficiently developed, have to tread through the paths of the Tree of Death, but it would be mighty dangerous work, for therein lies the path of despair and utter insanity. No one in their right mind would wish to meddle with the Collective Shadow, to bring Jungian terminology into this matter. But there are many out there who do believe they can harness these forces and, indeed, unleash them into our world. In this they have a will to power. In other words a very dangerous psychological disposition.

Escaping the confines of time can be advantageous but where you "visit" in that other place, that other timelessness, is also not without considerable danger - even while it can produce many lasting and very positive experiences. From what little I have read of Lovecraft, his ability to enter those other realms was said to be instinctive and intuitive. BUt I'm not convinced about that. The fact that he was drawn to the most negative and foul parts of it indicates something altogether different. And I have to wonder if the raging insanity that inflicted Lovecraft's father might have been passed along to his son? There is also that hint given in one of the two .pdf's you kindly posted that someone (unidentified) was passing Lovecraft extremely rare and exotic occult literature that focused his interest and abilities in distinctly negative directions. But I may, of course, be quite wrong about this. It's just that for me personally, I find it almost impossible to understand why anyone would voluntarily delve into these areas. If one had to use words to describe it, it would be "positive evil". Take, for example, Lovecraft's statement (which I extracted from the Cults of Cthulhu page 10:


Lovecraft also gives a brief description of the world after its
re-inheritance by the Great Old Ones:

The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would
have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild beyond
good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all
men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the
liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout
and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth
would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom.2

And then we have Kenneth Grant's observation (on pages 23-4)


Perhaps Lovecraft himself has left us with a rather
unsatisfactory explanation of the true provenance of the
Cthulhu Mythos. Certainly, it appears to hold a great value for
those individuals currently practising the Black Arts. In the
words of Kenneth Grant, the present Outer Head of the O.T.O.,
Lovecrafts great contribution to the occult lay in his
demonstration indirect as it may have been of the
power so to control the dreaming mind that it is capable of
projection into other dimensions, and of discovering that
there are doors through which flow in the form of
inspiration, intuition and vision the genuine current of
creative magical consciousness.11
Lovecrafts occult experiences, disguised as fiction, reveal
the intrusion of forces in complete sympathy with those
archetypes and symbols brought through by Blavatsky and
Crowley, whilst in contact with astral entities from beyond.
He had become the receiver and transmitter of hidden
knowledge, though in Lovecrafts case, the process was
intuitive rather than conscious. The internal self-division thus
engendered may have been the root cause of Lovecrafts mental
and physical peculiarities; or it may have been that these very
traits, which set him apart from the rest of society, made him
the ideal focus for the channelling of these ultra-mundane
forces.

Were I to guess I would suggest that Lovecraft were deeply involved with someone or some others who had distinctly developed occult abilities and who focused his attention into certain obscure directions.

Changing the subject, I note what you say about the arrival of the rump of the Trojans in Britain - this being, I presume, after their defeat at the hands of the Achaeans and the subsequent sack of Troy. Although I appreciate that this derives from Greek mythology, I know that there is an occult tradition that this actually happened. However, Geoffrey of Monmouth's account is not believed by many scholars because it is argued that the idea of the Trojans coming to these isles was simply a means of elevating the royal bloodlines of those times. Are you aware o any other accounts besides Monmouth's? I have read it elsewhere where it has been stated as undeniable fact - but with no corroborating evidence given. I suspect that it is a Freemasonic continuation - and while many of these guys are often very good scholars, even so I would like to read other sources if they are available?

Helen Reyes
05-17-2010, 04:54 PM
...Or maybe I didn't understand David's point precisely.

(my bolding)

Helen, I know too little about Lovecraft to make real judgements about him, but there are others of the ilk of Crowley etc., who seem to positively wish to turn the clock back and recapture the "Old Ones". A serious Qabalist would eventually, and when sufficiently developed, have to tread through the paths of the Tree of Death, but it would be mighty dangerous work, for therein lies the path of despair and utter insanity. No one in their right mind would wish to meddle with the Collective Shadow, to bring Jungian terminology into this matter. But there are many out there who do believe they can harness these forces and, indeed, unleash them into our world. In this they have a will to power. In other words a very dangerous psychological disposition.

OK I understand better now. Lovecraft himself said he was born in the wrong age and his sensibilities were probably more in tune with that of a 17th century aristocrat. He also had a sort of "reversion" to Roman times, both in his youth (see Inconsequential Scribblings) and as a fictional treatment probably derived from dream-visions in his correspondence. I think of him as an "escape artist" who was interested in showing something exists beyond mundane time and space, but he never took his "mythos" seriously, it was a joke for him, and later an inside joke, because he and others in the Weird Tales stable used the same names for the Old Ones and Forces, including Robert E. Howard, who authored Conan, and, I think more significantly, Clark Ashton-Smith.


Escaping the confines of time can be advantageous but where you "visit" in that other place, that other timelessness, is also not without considerable danger - even while it can produce many lasting and very positive experiences. From what little I have read of Lovecraft, his ability to enter those other realms was said to be instinctive and intuitive. BUt I'm not convinced about that. The fact that he was drawn to the most negative and foul parts of it indicates something altogether different. And I have to wonder if the raging insanity that inflicted Lovecraft's father might have been passed along to his son?

Apparently his father had some sort of syphilis-induced madness. He was a travelling salesman, away from home for long periods. At least that's what Lovecraft biographer Joshi says in A Life. His mother, on the other hand, used to make him come home before dusk because of the werewolves, or so I've heard.


There is also that hint given in one of the two .pdf's you kindly posted that someone (unidentified) was passing Lovecraft extremely rare and exotic occult literature that focused his interest and abilities in distinctly negative directions.

Lovecraft received some correspondence regarding his publications in Weird Tales by one person who said he was ignorantly serving real forces in his stories.


But I may, of course, be quite wrong about this. It's just that for me personally, I find it almost impossible to understand why anyone would voluntarily delve into these areas. If one had to use words to describe it, it would be "positive evil". Take, for example, Lovecraft's statement (which I extracted from the Cults of Cthulhu page 10:


Lovecraft also gives a brief description of the world after its
re-inheritance by the Great Old Ones:

The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would
have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild beyond
good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all
men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the
liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout
and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth
would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom.2

This is the passage always cited as demonstrating a connexion between Lovecraft and Crowley, specifically his Book of the Law. Some say it also echoes Nietzche's Beyond Good and Evil. There is a spurious insertion in history that Lovecraft's wife Sonia Greene was Crowley's girlfriend or friend. It isn't true.


And then we have Kenneth Grant's observation (on pages 23-4)


Perhaps Lovecraft himself has left us with a rather
unsatisfactory explanation of the true provenance of the
Cthulhu Mythos. Certainly, it appears to hold a great value for
those individuals currently practising the Black Arts. In the
words of Kenneth Grant, the present Outer Head of the O.T.O.,
Lovecrafts great contribution to the occult lay in his
demonstration indirect as it may have been of the
power so to control the dreaming mind that it is capable of
projection into other dimensions, and of discovering that
there are doors through which flow in the form of
inspiration, intuition and vision the genuine current of
creative magical consciousness.11
Lovecrafts occult experiences, disguised as fiction, reveal
the intrusion of forces in complete sympathy with those
archetypes and symbols brought through by Blavatsky and
Crowley, whilst in contact with astral entities from beyond.
He had become the receiver and transmitter of hidden
knowledge, though in Lovecrafts case, the process was
intuitive rather than conscious. The internal self-division thus
engendered may have been the root cause of Lovecrafts mental
and physical peculiarities; or it may have been that these very
traits, which set him apart from the rest of society, made him
the ideal focus for the channelling of these ultra-mundane
forces.

Were I to guess I would suggest that Lovecraft were deeply involved with someone or some others who had distinctly developed occult abilities and who focused his attention into certain obscure directions.

Clark Ashton-Smith might fit that bill. Anton LaVey would say so. He knew Klarkash, as Lovecraft dubbed him, and kept one of his books in his secret locked box.


Changing the subject, I note what you say about the arrival of the rump of the Trojans in Britain - this being, I presume, after their defeat at the hands of the Achaeans and the subsequent sack of Troy. Although I appreciate that this derives from Greek mythology, I know that there is an occult tradition that this actually happened. However, Geoffrey of Monmouth's account is not believed by many scholars because it is argued that the idea of the Trojans coming to these isles was simply a means of elevating the royal bloodlines of those times. Are you aware o any other accounts besides Monmouth's? I have read it elsewhere where it has been stated as undeniable fact - but with no corroborating evidence given. I suspect that it is a Freemasonic continuation - and while many of these guys are often very good scholars, even so I would like to read other sources if they are available?

Wikipedia has some ideas at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historia_Regum_Britanniae#Sources
I don't know; it seems like Bede or Augustine (the British one) might've mentioned it somewhere, or it might be in the Welsh or Irish pseudo-histories? wikipedia says Geoffrey claimed an unimpeachable source but no one believes him.

On the Tree of Death and the Collective Shadow, I have it on fairly good authority the French-Lithuanian poet Oscar de Lubicz Milosz used to stay up all night in avid conversation with dead people, including Shakespear. It really bugged Petras Klima when he stayed at some Lithuanian embassy somewhere. Reminded me of a Lovecraft scene.

Also, there's a really good podcast being produced right now which I think fairly portrays Lovecraft in all his atheism, check out episode 42 at the top of the page at www.hppodcraft.com, it made me seriously laugh. :)

Helen Reyes
05-17-2010, 05:07 PM
Helen,

Barnes and Angell Streets are separate and distinct.

Lovecraft tours continue to be offered. He is to Providence what Poe is to Baltimore -- and of course Poe also prowled the same neighborhood in which Lovecraft lived and worked.

Something in the water, perhaps.

Benefit Street and St. John's churchyard I guess. I sort of wondered why Lovecraft would be ashamed to bring his Jewish wife to Providence. I remember reading Newport (Newburyport?) has probably the earliest synagogue in North America except for one pretender in Brooklyn perhaps. Apparently Stuyvesant didn't want Jews from Brazil fleeing the Dutch conflict with Portugal settling in New Amsterdam, even though they were Dutch-alligned and thus had to flee, so some settled in the state of the free thinkers instead, where I remember at least one took a moral stand against slavery and the slave trade. How that relates to Dunkin Donuts I'll never know for sure.

Charles Drago
05-17-2010, 05:21 PM
Newport's Touro Synagogue is indeed North America's oldest.

As for the Dunkin Donuts Center -- formerly the Providence Civic Center -- I can offer the following:

A few years ago, I'm told, Bette Midler played the venue to which we less-than-fondly refer as "The Dunk."

At one point she raised her eyes heavenward and reverently intoned, "The Dunkin Donuts Center ... who says dreams don't come true!"

Helen Reyes
05-17-2010, 05:24 PM
I saw a slideshow from some event there involving the Sopranos actors and state government, unless they have one in New Jersey as well. I somehow got the idea Dunkin Donuts began their illustrious history right there in Providence. Yes, the Touro synagogue in Newport. Who knew Bette Midler was a cop in her heart of hearts?

David Guyatt
05-17-2010, 09:23 PM
There is also that hint given in one of the two .pdf's you kindly posted that someone (unidentified) was passing Lovecraft extremely rare and exotic occult literature that focused his interest and abilities in distinctly negative directions.

Helen said:


Lovecraft received some correspondence regarding his publications in Weird Tales by one person who said he was ignorantly serving real forces in his stories.

I just checked the foregoing semi-citation I made and it refers to comments made in Parker Ryan's essay on the Necronomicon in which he suggests that Lovecraft must've had access to a very rare Arabic text connected to the Necronomicon - apparently derived from Muqarribun magical practises - which he says were not available during Lovecraft's time (page 5).

And then on page 7 Parker Ryan states:


Let's closely examine the material on Arab magick. I believe it leads to one conclusion.
Lovecraft had access to rare material on Arab magick and myths. Ignoring the possible
coincidental equivalence of Kutulu and Khadhulu there is still overwhelming evidence
supporting this proposal. Lovecraft used Irem in a manner that Parallels the Muqarribun
use before this information was generally available. The Rub al Khali (Roba el Khaliye)
is in truth important to the Muqarribun. The Jinn are exact counter parts of the "Old
Ones." Lovecraft's description of Alhazred is VERY consistent with the Arabic Meaning
of the "Mad Poet" even though this also was generally unknown in the 1930's. The Al
Azif (the howling of the Jinn) is obviously related to Alazred's title: "The One Who is
Possessed by Jinn and Whose Writings Are Inspired by Jinn." Al Azif being a book of
poetry is consistent with the fact that almost all mystical or prophetic writings in Arabic
are poems. Khadhulu's association with the sleeping Dragon of the Abyss is VERY close
to Lovecraft's Cthulhu who lays Dreaming in the Abyss (ocean). To my knowledge there
was nothing available (in print) about Khdhulu in English in the 1930's. All this seems to
indicate that Lovecraft had a source of information of Arabic magick and myths not
commonly accessible. It appears HPL expanded on some of the material, in this source,
in his fiction. Please note that this in no way detracts from his considerable creastivity.
HPL's stories are great not because of few isolated elements but rather because of the way
Lovecraft could blend the individual pieces into a whole.

I accept in advance that I may be adding two and two and coming up with five. However, largely due to the apparent obscurity of the Arabic magical traditions he appears to have had access to, my sense is that Lovecraft may actually have amounted to more than is publicly apparent.

It was one of Jung's analytical techniques to assess the state of an individuals active psychology by the fiction they write (amongst other applications). And the concern is that Lovecraft may have been promulgating, via his fiction, various aspects of Arabic left-hand magic with the purpose of stimulating in the Collective Unconscious of his readers the hidden dark regions in order to create a new pulse of life - a sort of proselytizing at arms length if you will. Can this happen unconsciously? Yes. But it seems more likely in view of the foregoing that Lovecraft probably knew what he was doing.

This certainly seems to be the undertone or thinking of Kenneth Grant and others who are, or have been, deeply involved in such practices themselves (which is why I think they are inclined to "adhere" to Lovecraft) - a coming together of like minds perhaps - and one reason I should think why certain Lovecraft's stories seem to be required reading by the Brotherhood of the Left Hand path (to lift the occult terminology used by Parker Ryan), whereas Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, for example, is not on their curriculum (I checked a Satanic online book list).

For what it's worth, this is the main concern I have with Lovecraft.

Helen Reyes
05-18-2010, 10:55 AM
I just checked the foregoing semi-citation I made and it refers to comments made in Parker Ryan's essay on the Necronomicon in which he suggests that Lovecraft must've had access to a very rare Arabic text connected to the Necronomicon - apparently derived from Muqarribun magical practises - which he says were not available during Lovecraft's time (page 5).

...


Let's closely examine the material on Arab magick. I believe it leads to one conclusion. Lovecraft had access to rare material on Arab magick and myths. Ignoring the possible coincidental equivalence of Kutulu and Khadhulu there is still overwhelming evidence supporting this proposal. Lovecraft used Irem in a manner that Parallels the Muqarribun use before this information was generally available. The Rub al Khali (Roba el Khaliye) is in truth important to the Muqarribun. The Jinn are exact counter parts of the "Old Ones." Lovecraft's description of Alhazred is VERY consistent with the Arabic Meaning of the "Mad Poet" even though this also was generally unknown in the 1930's. The Al Azif (the howling of the Jinn) is obviously related to Alazred's title: "The One Who is Possessed by Jinn and Whose Writings Are Inspired by Jinn." Al Azif being a book of poetry is consistent with the fact that almost all mystical or prophetic writings in Arabic are poems. Khadhulu's association with the sleeping Dragon of the Abyss is VERY close to Lovecraft's Cthulhu who lays Dreaming in the Abyss (ocean). To my knowledge there was nothing available (in print) about Khdhulu in English in the 1930's. All this seems to indicate that Lovecraft had a source of information of Arabic magick and myths not commonly accessible. It appears HPL expanded on some of the material, in this source, in his fiction. Please note that this in no way detracts from his considerable creastivity. HPL's stories are great not because of few isolated elements but rather because of the way Lovecraft could blend the individual pieces into a whole.

I accept in advance that I may be adding two and two and coming up with five. However, largely due to the apparent obscurity of the Arabic magical traditions he appears to have had access to, my sense is that Lovecraft may actually have amounted to more than is publicly apparent.

He was a voracious reader. In the quote, "not generally available in the 1930s to my knoweldge" and "not generally known" fail on two counts: the author probably hasn't done an exhaustive survey of scholarly literature available on the subject ca. 1930, and Lovecraft has never been accused of dabbling in "general knowledge."

He said Al Azif refers to the buzzing of insects, not jinn, granted it's a small step from flying insect to fairy. You can believe that Cthulhu is related to Khadhulu as Parker Ryan has it, but there are plenty of alternative explanations, too. You could even connect it with the Icelandic volcano, Ketla, which lies deep in the ocean, dreaming :) Here's an entry from a book called The Discovery of Language by Holger Pedersen, translated to ENglish and published by Harvard Press in 1931, pg. 146:

"Thus, the different forms of the verb to kill in Arabic run as follows:
katala he killed
kutila he was killed
katalta thou didst kill
ya-ktulu he will kill
katlun killing, murder"

(all of the initial Ks have a little dot under them.)

Lovecraft wrote Call of Cthulhu sometime in 1926 or so, before the English translation of Pedersen's book came out, and his story was published in the February, 1928, issue of Weird Tales. This is, supposedly, his first mention of Cthulhu, which he later explains is a human approximation at pronouncing an extraterrestrial word, the Hs adding gutteral values.

Alhazred, according to Lovecraft, was suggested to him as an Arabic name by an older friend of the family when he was young and fascinated with Thousand and one Nights. It likely was an orthographic form of a transliterated name floating around in the literature in the late 1800s. Likely it was a form of Khezr, or Heder, see http://hermetic.com/bey/anticaliph.html
The appelation "the Mad Arab" is interesting but not all that surprising imho.

If you download and listen to the following radio drama from 1937, Men of Vision - Roger Bacon, at 2:47 in you'll hear someone make reference to Alhazred, at least I think that's what I heard. They mention his name several times as one of the preservers of European science among the Arabs. Lovecraft died in 1937 and it's possible the radio drama was using his character, but he himself was fairly obscure even then, and it seems odd they'd insert a Lovecraft character into a serious drama about Roger Bacon.

Men of Vision 370505 Roger Bacon (http://www.quickshare.co.za/files/q8nb05wm/MenofVision370505RogerBacon.mp3.html)

Apologies for the sound quality.



It was one of Jung's analytical techniques to assess the state of an individuals active psychology by the fiction they write (amongst other applications). And the concern is that Lovecraft may have been promulgating, via his fiction, various aspects of Arabic left-hand magic with the purpose of stimulating in the Collective Unconscious of his readers the hidden dark regions in order to create a new pulse of life - a sort of proselytizing at arms length if you will. Can this happen unconsciously? Yes. But it seems more likely in view of the foregoing that Lovecraft probably knew what he was doing.

I think that it is the ability to interpret Lovecraft in so many ways that points the way toward the real process at work. He was attempting to convey his own dreams, the emotional power of his dreams, through his fiction, without resorting to cliches and tired literary devices. He certainly knew he was doing this because he wrote about it. What he drew up from the well has resonated in various circles. His creative process is a lot like that the surrealists cultivated in themselves and their works, drawing on dream imagery to make art.


This certainly seems to be the undertone or thinking of Kenneth Grant and others who are, or have been, deeply involved in such practices themselves (which is why I think they are inclined to "adhere" to Lovecraft) - a coming together of like minds perhaps - and one reason I should think why certain Lovecraft's stories seem to be required reading by the Brotherhood of the Left Hand path (to lift the occult terminology used by Parker Ryan), whereas Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, for example, is not on their curriculum (I checked a Satanic online book list).

:) I think his imagery and stories draw on a lot of sources but that it is teh electric charge of his dreams that animates it all and makes it worth contemplating.


For what it's worth, this is the main concern I have with Lovecraft.

It's possible to trace conspiracies and networks around Lovecraft, but he really is the lone pen-man if you will, a total loner, the archetype of the loner. His opening paragraph for Call of Cthulhu is his most-quoted item, and it makes the case against science, and on a higher level, against cosmic and spiritual knowledge, which will lead to the dissolution of human dignity and civilization if pursued. The problem is, Lovecraft didn't really believe this himself, he was an atheist and a scientist at heart, but he was interested in widening the conceptual horizons, in expanding the human imagination to encompass larger things. I think he's innocent, was interested in having fun, making friends (pen-pals) and writing mind-blowing stories. I think he got bad press the same way Oskar Milosz railed against Ed Poe as some sort of menace to the human spirit. Anyway, here's the first paragraph, and the quote from Algernon Blackwood; I like the style:



The Call of Cthulhu

Of such great powers or beings there may be conceivably a survival... a survival of a hugely remote period when...consciousness was manifest, perhaps, in shapes and forms long since withdrawn before the tide of advancing humanity... forms of which poetry and legend alone have caught a flying memory and called them gods, monsters, mythical beings of all sorts and kinds...
- ALGERNON BLACKWOOD


I. THE HORROR IN CLAY

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.


Rather than adopting the view he is promoting anticosmic agnosis, think of a youngish man trying to tell a really spooky story, but instead of doing so around a campfire, since he has no friends to go camping with, he resorts to prose fiction on paper, an activity for which he has some talent.

David Guyatt
05-18-2010, 03:27 PM
Helen, you are very clearly far more knowledgeable about Lovecraft - and clearly have a strong feeling tone for him - than me. In fact I regard myself as a rank amateur-cum-dunce in this respect, compared to you.

I do have some insights and practical experience when it comes to dreams and speaking personally, I sincerely doubt this was the major source of his knowledge. Rather I have the impression that this was a useful device to cloak other developed abilities. Which is why it seems far more likely to me that he was able to access those timeless places in an ultra deep state of meditation, where his consciousness remained acute - his body virtually dormant - and with well practiced memory skills, he could have later written concise diary notes of his experiences and sensations - a so called "magical diary" (not something that would ever be made publicly available).

It is my sense that in order to achieve these abilities one needs to have been taught. Some people do have a natural facility for it - I have known some who fall right in so to speak, but that natural ability still needs to be harnessed and focused by someone experienced in that field. This normally (and certainly in those days I would think) would almost certainly have derived from an occult lodge or order - and unlike the Golden Dawn and Crowleyian O.T.O etc., most of these do not publicize their membership, nor do their members publicize their affiliation to such.

In the last analysis however, all this is a feeling tone, or gut instinct, that I have about this and is certainly not the result of scholarly research.

Meanwhile, this is what Parker Ryan states about his research efforts (page 10):


I've been researching Arab magick (and it connection to Lovecraft) for nearly 10 years so I won't be able to list every source I've used. However I should be able to give resource in which people interested can verify ALL the claims I make.

Which is the principal reason I was impressed with his conclusion that Lovecraft had access to a very rare treatise on Arab magical traditions - and if this was so, then probably he also had direct access to a teacher or lodge. It would be typical for an occult lodge to have its own library, some of which may have been very rare tombs indeed.

One such group who had great insights into Arabic magical techniques were, as you know, the Knights Templar - who went underground just over 700 years ago and arose again just prior to when the current Pope took office and forgave them declaring they were innocent of the charges brought against them (they had earlier issued a threat due to be enacted on their 700th anniversary if this absolution didn't take place - although no one knows outside of themselves and the Vatican what this threat represented).

And so I suspect we must probably agree to disagree on how Lovecraft may have come about his apparent knowledge. I doubt either of us will ever know one way or the other for certain. But it is really good that different perspectives are, and continue to be, explored as has happened in this thread. Such exchanges force deeper pondering etc., which is beneficial. Meanwhile, I never cease to be impressed by your broad knowledge on these more than obscure subjects - which are right up my street too. Bravo!

David

Helen Reyes
05-18-2010, 06:46 PM
Thanks David. I've explored just a little bit about Lovecraft. I'm trying to think of evidence to support your belief and one thing I can say is that he wrote more letters than anyone I've ever heard of before. I think five volumes in hardback were published years ago just of selected correspondence, and that was just scratching the surface. I'm not certain but I think that Brown University in Providence has a large collection of Lovecraft manuscripts and letters. That might be the contact you're looking for between Lovecraft and an established group practicing magic, but I've never come across mention of any such correspondence. Instead Lovecraft co-authored and ghost-wrote with many people known and unknown, discussed story ideas, encouraged amateur writers and discussed politics, from what little I've seen.


I do have some insights and practical experience when it comes to dreams and speaking personally, I sincerely doubt this was the major source of his knowledge. Rather I have the impression that this was a useful device to cloak other developed abilities. Which is why it seems far more likely to me that he was able to access those timeless places in an ultra deep state of meditation, where his consciousness remained acute - his body virtually dormant - and with well practiced memory skills, he could have later written concise diary notes of his experiences and sensations - a so called "magical diary" (not something that would ever be made publicly available).

This would be what Lovecraft called his Common-place Book, parts of which are available. Dreams, visions... plots stemming from them, spur of the moment ideas for stories... He starved himself at times and was very driven toward active participation in his dreams. There are several time periods he tuned into, one was Roman, another was European America before Columbus (Norse in New England), another was England in the 17th or 18th century with an emphasis on a literary personality there and I suspect he also tuned into Poe, whom he adored. There's also some library outside of time inhabited by a strange race of cone-shaped creatures who are capable of time travel and collect knowledge from all over the universe, with some connexion to Western Australia in the distant past. He did exert his imagination on a daily basis.



Meanwhile, this is what Parker Ryan states about his research efforts (page 10):


I've been researching Arab magick (and it connection to Lovecraft) for nearly 10 years so I won't be able to list every source I've used. However I should be able to give resource in which people interested can verify ALL the claims I make.

Which is the principal reason I was impressed with his conclusion that Lovecraft had access to a very rare treatise on Arab magical traditions - and if this was so, then probably he also had direct access to a teacher or lodge. It would be typical for an occult lodge to have its own library, some of which may have been very rare tombs indeed.

His grandfather Whipple had an extensive library he used as a child and then moved on to Brown U I guess. While he lived the married life in New York he was a fixture at the Public Library there.


One such group who had great insights into Arabic magical techniques were, as you know, the Knights Templar - who went underground just over 700 years ago and arose again just prior to when the current Pope took office and forgave them declaring they were innocent of the charges brought against them (they had earlier issued a threat due to be enacted on their 700th anniversary if this absolution didn't take place - although no one knows outside of themselves and the Vatican what this threat represented).

I think the Necronomicon is supposed to represent exactly that kind of lost knowledge resurfacing, the idea of an occult continuation both from the Islamic alchemists and the Greeks and Egyptians and Chaldeans before them, but also containing antedeluvian lore and things only knowable from higher planes of observation. Lovecraft makes Dee a recipient of a volume that survived the attempt to suppress the book, thus placing him in that continuity from Crotona to Alexandria to Damascus. Saana the capital of Yemen also has some occult significance as the Garden and Alhazred is supposed to have been there or disappeared there or something. Lovecraft's lost knowledge resurfacing, symbolized by the Necronomicon, coincidentalyl took place shortly after his death in the real world, with the discovery of the Chenoboskion codices and Qumran wadi scrolls.


And so I suspect we must probably agree to disagree on how Lovecraft may have come about his apparent knowledge. I doubt either of us will ever know one way or the other for certain.

His knowledge proper came from books and correspondence mainly, but he used his researches to lend credence to the psychic force of his dream-vision symbols and pondered some fairly profound connexions. He does seem to consider the acquisition of specific knowledge via unknown faculties in a lot of his stories. I will continue to think he's home-grown and self-taught but am more than willing to consider otherwise if I can find any reason for it. There are a number of coincidences in his work we haven't touched on but they seem to have been addressed by the Lovecraft scholars at least a little bit. They've been noted, I should say (Sarnath, Azathoth, etc.). There might be more, or more to come as events unfold :)

David Guyatt
05-18-2010, 09:08 PM
The Dee angle is indeed interesting and Dee's "familiar", if you will, Edward Kelly, was the man chosen to do his "scrying" for him. Scrying is an old, almost lost term these days, and a better description than the one you wrote above would be difficult to find to describe it:


He starved himself at times and was very driven toward active participation in his dreams. There are several time periods he tuned into, one was Roman, another was European America before Columbus (Norse in New England), another was England in the 17th or 18th century with an emphasis on a literary personality there and I suspect he also tuned into Poe, whom he adored. There's also some library outside of time inhabited by a strange race of cone-shaped creatures who are capable of time travel and collect knowledge from all over the universe, with some connexion to Western Australia in the distant past. He did exert his imagination on a daily basis.

(my bolding)

Jung's autobiography Memories, Dreams and Refections details numerous similar experiences - which is not particularly surprising, I think. Jung developed a technique he called "Active Imagination" (rather than "active participation") for these experiences and it is close to dreaming but with free conscious will retained (otherwise known as a deep meditative state - as I briefly outlined earlier in this thread), and it was a technique my old Jungian teacher recommended I also use because I already had a fairly extensive ability in such things. Starving, or at least not having an empty stomach prior to undertaking these activities is a requisite - but something must be taken immediately afterwards.

On these occasions one gets to meet an entirely different class of people -- or perhaps "beings" is a more accurate term? :angel: And sometimes you can get tangled up with an Archetype when you boldly step where no one has step-ped before (except someone probably has)... which is not something ever to be forgotten. :call:

Helen Reyes
05-20-2010, 07:59 AM
The Dee angle is indeed interesting and Dee's "familiar", if you will, Edward Kelly, was the man chosen to do his "scrying" for him. Scrying is an old, almost lost term these days, and a better description than the one you wrote above would be difficult to find to describe it:


He starved himself at times and was very driven toward active participation in his dreams. There are several time periods he tuned into, one was Roman, another was European America before Columbus (Norse in New England), another was England in the 17th or 18th century with an emphasis on a literary personality there and I suspect he also tuned into Poe, whom he adored. There's also some library outside of time inhabited by a strange race of cone-shaped creatures who are capable of time travel and collect knowledge from all over the universe, with some connexion to Western Australia in the distant past. He did exert his imagination on a daily basis.

(my bolding)

Jung's autobiography Memories, Dreams and Refections details numerous similar experiences - which is not particularly surprising, I think. Jung developed a technique he called "Active Imagination" (rather than "active participation") for these experiences and it is close to dreaming but with free conscious will retained (otherwise known as a deep meditative state - as I briefly outlined earlier in this thread), and it was a technique my old Jungian teacher recommended I also use because I already had a fairly extensive ability in such things. Starving, or at least not having an empty stomach prior to undertaking these activities is a requisite - but something must be taken immediately afterwards.

On these occasions one gets to meet an entirely different class of people -- or perhaps "beings" is a more accurate term? :angel: And sometimes you can get tangled up with an Archetype when you boldly step where no one has step-ped before (except someone probably has)... which is not something ever to be forgotten. :call:

If you consider Cthulhu as master of the Abyss, you can substitute the collective unconscious for Abyss with undifferentiated aspects of the archetypes, for example, the both good and evil gods or angels of the Yezidi pantheon, and Lovecraft is constantly seeking doorways or gates, access, to the treasure-trove of imagery in the collective unconscious. Some of his stories use the symbol of a silver key to unlock those gates to dreamland, and these particular stories tie in with his own explorations into his ancestry, he regresses to an ancestor in what he consistently refers to as Devonshire in England in the 17th century.

I was looking over some Lovecraft studies from the 1970s and realized I was mis-characterized him as a complete shut-in. He was making friends through his work in the Amateur Journalism associations and meeting young people, even going to amusement parks with groups of them. He also seems to have introduced the use of pseudonyms in those circles. One of his works is coauthored with Elizabeth Berkeley, a pseudonym, and he uses one of his own on that story as well, Theobald Lewis I believe. One of the authors in the amateur press whose stories and poems appear in the same issues as Lovecraft's work was named James Laurence Crowley, probably no relation. An older man named Arthur Goodenough also appears with Lovecraft and seems to have played the role of tutor to Lovecraft in some sense. They met in person as well. Lovecraft also travelled to Quebec and different parts of New England collecting lore and inspiration. The Colour out of Space was inspired by a story he received from a woman who specialized in New England heritage whom he visited on one of his trips. So it's not inconceivable he was in some way connected to one or several initiatory groups, either formally or informally.

It might also be significant that his stories became much better following his return from New York and the break-up of his marriage around 1925. One of his New York stories, He, involves magical time regressions and progressions in New York. He put his new-found inspiration down to a return to his native Providence, but New York seems to have broadened his cosmic view somehow, so perhaps there were teachers there who showed him new things.

David Guyatt
05-20-2010, 03:46 PM
If you consider Cthulhu as master of the Abyss, you can substitute the collective unconscious for Abyss with undifferentiated aspects of the archetypes, for example, the both good and evil gods or angels of the Yezidi pantheon, and Lovecraft is constantly seeking doorways or gates, access, to the treasure-trove of imagery in the collective unconscious. Some of his stories use the symbol of a silver key to unlock those gates to dreamland, and these particular stories tie in with his own explorations into his ancestry, he regresses to an ancestor in what he consistently refers to as Devonshire in England in the 17th century.

I think we are in broad agreement about the CU. I should really go upstairs and consult Jung's Collected Works for his precise definition and transcribe it here, but I am feeling too lazy I'm afraid (a tough day on the gold course is my excuse!), but the following extract seems pretty okay to me.

http://www.thesap.org.uk/jung-s-model-of-the-psyche


The collective unconscious
The theory of the collective unconscious is one of the distinctive features of Jungs psychology. He took the view that the whole personality is present in potentia from birth and that personality is not solely a function of the environment, as was thought at the time when he was developing his ideas, but merely brings out what is already there. The role of the environment is to emphasise and develop aspects already within the individual.
Every infant is born with an intact blueprint for life, both physically and mentally, and while these ideas were very controversial at the time, there is much more agreement now that each animal species is uniquely equipped with a repertoire of behaviours adapted to the environment in which it has evolved. This repertoire is dependent on what ethologists call innate releasing mechanisms which the animal inherits in its central nervous system and which become activated when appropriate stimuli are encountered in the environment. These ideas are very close indeed to the theory of archetypes developed by Jung.
He wrote:
the term archetype is not meant to denote an inherited idea, but rather an inherited mode of functioning, corresponding to the inborn way in which the chick emerges from the egg, the bird builds its nest, a certain kind of wasp stings the motor ganglion of the caterpillar, and eels find their way to the Bermudas. In other words, it is a pattern of behaviour. This aspect of the archetype, the purely biological one, is the proper concern of scientific psychology. (CW18, para 1228).
The archetypes predispose us to approach life and to experience it in certain ways, according to patterns laid down in the psyche. There are archetypal figures, such as mother, father, child, archetypal events, such as birth, death, separation, and archetypal objects such as water, the sun, the moon, snakes, and so on. These images find expression in the psyche, in behaviour and in myths. It is only archetypal images that are capable of being known and coming to consciousness, the archetypes themselves are deeply unconscious and unknowable.
I have mentioned the biological, instinctual pole of the archetype, but Jung perceived the concept as a spectrum, there being an opposing, spiritual pole which also has an enormous impact on behaviour. Archetypes have a fascinating, numinous quality to them which makes them difficult to ignore, and attracts people to venerate or worship archetypal images.Meanwhile mucho gracias for the .pdf. I'll settle in to read this when I return from my holiday-cum-French odyssey... Yum. Slurp. Belch!

Helen Reyes
05-26-2010, 01:21 PM
What happens when the archetypes acting through the human personality so to speak encounter something entirely new?

In this respect Lovecraft's various unnameables, unutterables, ineffibles and indescribables prefigure some of the paradoxical encounters with ETs, something completely Outside the ken of human experience.

Lauren Johnson
11-14-2012, 05:51 PM
I am bumping this thread to remind us there is really great stuff to be found in the DPF "way back machine." I found Charlie Drago's comment #157 in the current pedophile thread to be most intriguing and I went sniffing around. Also I have been re-reading David Guyatt's various posts.

EDIT: From #157:

That, and the equivalent of consuming the wolf's heart to gain the wolf's strength and cunning.

You are, as they say, what you eat.

Material wealth and earthly power are term-limited. And so wealthy, powerful men and women look to trump mortality by all means necessary.

Some invest heavily in psychic research as they seek assurance that, while they can't take it with them, they nonetheless will be going somewhere.

Others take darker measures.

Charles Drago
11-14-2012, 07:39 PM
Good bump, Lauren. And thanks for the kind words.

There is indeed gold in them thar DPF archives.

Lauren Johnson
11-14-2012, 08:03 PM
Good bump, Lauren. And thanks for the kind words.

There is indeed gold in them thar DPF archives.

The more I continue to dig, question, speculate, verify, and finally adopt working hypotheses, the more I am led away from the notion that "it is all about power and wealth." Below this most obvious explanation for the deep political lies a much deeper motive -- the need to transcend our finite existence and be transformed into gods -- especially at the expense of any and all. That I think is the core of Levenda's Sinister Forces; at least that is my reading. This is The Unspeakable. Just interpreting the deep political through the lens of power and wealth is reductionist. It is especially appealing considering the (justified) hatred of religion. Nevertheless, it is still a reductionist trajectory and is therefore inadequate.

David Guyatt
06-27-2014, 11:42 AM
I miss Helen Reyes and our discussions on Lovecraft.

Helen felt that Lovecraft had no occult knowledge whereas I considered him to be versed in the subject. Neither of us could get to the bottom of the subject and let the matter drop.

I now see from The Necronomicon Files - The Truth Behind the Legend by Harms & Gonce that Lovecraft did, in fact, seek a great deal of occult knowledge from experts. In other words he was reasonably well versed in the subject.

Meanwhile, Danielle Trussoni who wrote the excellent novel Angelogy - all about the Nephilim - has now followed up with Angelopolis, which looks like a great read also (I have a copy saved for my future holiday reading).

Tracy Riddle
06-27-2014, 01:21 PM
A good documentary about Lovecraft:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17tj18qpJf0

Magda Hassan
06-27-2014, 01:38 PM
I miss Helen Reyes ...

So do I.



Meanwhile, Danielle Trussoni who wrote the excellent novel Angelogy - all about the Nephilim - has now followed up with Angelopolis, which looks like a great read also (I have a copy saved for my future holiday reading).

Is there any agreement yet on how many fit on the head of a pin?

I remembered you posted a most intriguing link to some Vatican department or order that had some thing to do with angels.

Found it: https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4925-Opus-Angelorum-how-curious

David Guyatt
06-27-2014, 04:46 PM
I miss Helen Reyes ...

So do I.



Meanwhile, Danielle Trussoni who wrote the excellent novel Angelogy - all about the Nephilim - has now followed up with Angelopolis, which looks like a great read also (I have a copy saved for my future holiday reading).

Is there any agreement yet on how many fit on the head of a pin?

I remembered you posted a most intriguing link to some Vatican department or order that had some thing to do with angels.

Found it: https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4925-Opus-Angelorum-how-curious

You have a better memory than me, Magda. I'd forgotten all about that report on Opus Angelorum. You're good!

R.K. Locke
06-27-2014, 06:31 PM
Has anyone read Peter Levenda's book on Lovecraft and Kenneth Grant? It looks like a good piece of work but it seems to have gone under the radar somewhat.

David Guyatt
06-28-2014, 07:48 AM
Has anyone read Peter Levenda's book on Lovecraft and Kenneth Grant? It looks like a good piece of work but it seems to have gone under the radar somewhat.

I haven't but would like to. Levenda is usually highly informative.

The following from a website (http://www.incunabula.org/2013/08/the-dark-lord-h-p-lovecraft-kenneth-grant-and-the-typhonian/) that recommends the book (and provides a Pirate Bay link to a copy of it)



http://i0.wp.com/www.incunabula.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/dark-lord.jpg?resize=200%2C300 (http://i0.wp.com/www.incunabula.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/dark-lord.jpg)



From January 2013 to March 2013 a working was performed in the Mojave desert, east of Los Angeles. This working was a continuation of a working that occurred in the same area during the same calendar periods in 1946. The effects of this working was not immediate, but rather, was a setting in motion of forces that have begun and continue to accrue, building up to a desired and planned birth of a magickal childe. You may consider the beginning of this working as the insemination and the current period as the gestation period. December will be the birth of a new being, one which will enter through a portal originally opened in 1946 and widened and prepared for an induced birthing in 2013. The number of years between the two is important. But we can say no more. What we can do is recommend a recent book currently found on TPB (http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/8829700/The_Dark_Lord__H.P._Lovecraft__Kenneth_Grant__and_ the_Typhonian_), that will give you pointers in directions that can help you understand what was done, why it was done and what to expect from it’s results. -V.A.
—–
One of the most famous – yet least understood – manifestations of Thelemic thought has been the works of Kenneth Grant, the British occultist and one-time intimate of Aleister Crowley, who discovered a hidden world within the primary source materials of Crowley’s Aeon of Horus. Using complementary texts from such disparate authors as H.P. Lovecraft, Jack Parsons, Austin Osman Spare, and Charles Stansfeld Jones (“Frater Achad”), Grant formulated a system of magic that expanded upon that delineated in the rituals of the OTO: a system that included elements of Tantra, of Voudon, and in particular that of the Schlangekraft recension of the Necronomicon, all woven together in a dark tapestry of power and illumination.
The Dark Lord follows the themes in the writings of Kenneth Grant, H.P. Lovecraft, and the Necronomicon, uncovering further meanings of the concepts of the famous writers of the Left Hand Path. It is for Thelemites, as well as lovers of the Lovecraft Mythos in all its forms, and for those who find the rituals of classical ceremonial magic inadequate for the New Aeon.
Traveling through the worlds of religion, literature, and the occult, Peter Levenda takes his readers on a deeply fascinating exploration on magic, evil, and The Dark Lord as he investigates of one of the most neglected theses in the history of modern occultism: the nature of the Typhonian Current and its relationship to Aleister Crowley’s Thelema and H.P. Lovecraft’s Necronomicon.


Btw, the Pirate bay link doesn't work. I managed to find a current link HERE (http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/8829700/The_Dark_Lord__H.P._Lovecraft__Kenneth_Grant__and_ the_Typhonian_).

If anyone manages to download the book, perhaps they'll let me have a copy.

Dawn Meredith
06-28-2014, 12:44 PM
Has anyone read Peter Levenda's book on Lovecraft and Kenneth Grant? It looks like a good piece of work but it seems to have gone under the radar somewhat.


Oh for some serious reading time. I have had Levenda's trilogy (Sinister forces) for a long time but it's not vacation /beach reading and I am so busy with work that the only reading I get done of late is on here.

I miss Helen too. Anyone know where she went?

Dawn

Lauren Johnson
06-28-2014, 02:52 PM
Levenda has a new book (http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Legacy-Diaspora-Organized-Terrorism/dp/0892542101/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1403966988&sr=1-3&keywords=levenda) coming out this October:
The Hitler Legacy: The Nazi Cult in Diaspora: How it was Organized, How it was Funded, and Why it Remains a Threat to Global Security in the Age of Terrorism