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Magda Hassan
05-07-2011, 05:41 AM
Here you go Peter. Don't want to deprive you of a good video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNcn4qy_dYs&feature=player_embedded#at=234

Peter Lemkin
05-07-2011, 07:12 AM
Not bad, not bad!.....someone [unknown] in Pakistan just released clear and long video images of the 'OBL' compound as it is now......a garden; lots of blood on the floors; everything overturned and broken; etc. Supposedly, the buildings and walls will soon be torn down. WTC, take II. :spy:

The official Al Quaida website has announced [for what its worth - as who knows who actually puts up this page....] that OBL is now dead [time/year of death not mentioned]...and threatens a sea of revenge.... :mexican:

Jan Klimkowski
05-07-2011, 11:44 AM
Doesn't this judge understand that his function in office is to support the War on Terror blindly, without criticism or independent thought?


Germany: Judge Files Criminal Charges Against Chancellor Merkel For Saying She Was “Glad” Bin Laden Was Killed…

A Hamburg judge has filed a criminal complaint against Chancellor Angela Merkel for "endorsing a crime" after she stated she was "glad" that Osama bin Laden was killed by US forces. Meanwhile a new poll reveals that a majority of Germans do not see the terrorist's death as a reason to celebrate.

Schadenfreude, the enjoyment of others' suffering, may be a famously German concept, but it is apparently not a feeling that many Germans aspire to. The political and public fallout following Chancellor Angela Merkel's statement on Monday that she was "glad" Osama bin Laden had been killed was among the most hotly debated topics in the German media this week.

Politicians, including those within her own center-right coalition, said that no death was cause for celebration, and reproved the remark as un-Christian and vengeful.

But Hamburg judge Heinz Uthmann went even further. He alleges that the chancellor's statement was nothing short of illegal, and filed a criminal complaint against Merkel midweek, the daily Hamburger Morgenpost reported Friday.

"I am a law-abiding citizen and as a judge, sworn to justice and law," the 54-year-old told the paper, adding that Merkel's words were "tacky and undignified."

In his two-page document, Uthmann, a judge for 21 years, cites section 140 of the German Criminal Code, which forbids the "rewarding and approving" of crimes. In this case, Merkel endorsed a "homicide," Uthmann claimed. The violation is punishable by up to three years' imprisonment or a fine.

"For the daughter of a Christian pastor, the comment is astonishing and at odds with the values of human dignity, charity and the rule of law," Uthmann told the newspaper.

A Sober German Reaction

While the judge's reaction may seem extreme, his sentiments are apparently shared by 64 percent of the German population. That was the proportion of Germans who said bin Laden's death was "no reason to rejoice" in a poll published by broadcaster ARD on Friday.

Among respondents who said they identified with Germany's three main opposition parties, an even greater proportion were disgusted with the jubilation over the al-Qaida leader's death. Their views mirror recent comments made by opposition politicians on the issue.

But even among supporters of Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats (CDU) and their junior coalition partners, the pro-business Free Democrats (FDP), barely half of those polled said they empathized with Merkel's view.

The chancellor has declined to withdraw her statement, but the outcry prompted government press spokesman Steffen Seibert to defend her on Thursday. "The reason for her happiness was the thought that this man would no longer pose any danger," he said, adding that her statement had been reported out of context.

Seibert added that Merkel "appreciates that those who heard only this sentence ... might have found the combination of the words 'death' and 'glad' in one phrase to be inappropriate."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-761077.html

Magda Hassan
05-07-2011, 01:38 PM
Sems to be more info in the Pakistani papers than others. Also interesting comment after article.

ISLAMABAD: Osama bin Laden may have lived in Pakistan for over seven years before being shot dead by US forces, senior Pakistani security officials said on Saturday, a disclosure that could further anger (http://tribune.com.pk/story/163799/us-demands-pakistan-disclose-names-of-operatives-report/) key ally Washington over the presence of enemy number one in the country.
One of Bin Laden’s widows told Pakistani investigators that the world’s most wanted man stayed in a village for nearly two and a half years before moving to the nearby garrison town of Abbottabad (http://tribune.com.pk/story/160482/unsafe-haven-why-was-abbottabad-the-final-destination/), where he was killed.
The wife, Amal Ahmed Abdulfattah, told investigators earlier that Bin Laden and his family had spent five years in Abbottabad, before one of the world’s most elaborate and expensive manhunts ended there on Monday.
“Amal (bin Laden’s wife) told investigators that they lived in a village in Haripur district for nearly two and a half years before moving to Abbottabad at the end of 2005,” one of the security officials told Reuters on condition of anonymity.
Abdulfattah, along with two other wives and several children, were among 15-16 people detained by Pakistani authorities at the compound after the raid.
Pakistan, heavily dependent on billions of dollars of US aid, is under heavy pressure to explain how Bin Laden could have spent so many years undetected a few hours drive from its intelligence headquarters in the capital.
Suspicions have deepened that Pakistan’s pervasive Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) spy agency, which has a long history of contacts with militant groups, may have had ties with Bin Laden – or at least some of its agents did.
Pakistan has dismissed such suggestions and says it has paid the highest price in terms of human life and money supporting the US war on militancy launched after Bin Laden’s followers staged the September 11, 2001, attacks on America.
Pakistani leaders were already facing a staggering number of problems before revelations that Bin Laden was in their backyard for years raised new questions about their commitment to fighting militancy. Al Qaeda-linked Taliban militants who seem to stage suicide bombings at will remain a major security threat despite several military offensives against their bases in the forbidding mountainous border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
The economy is stagnant and in order to keep it afloat the government must impose politically unpopular economic reforms to keep money from an $11 billion International Monetary Fund loan flowing to Pakistan.
And Pakistanis are growing impatient with high food prices, poor services and infrastructure, and an education system that is so flawed that many parents are forced to send their children to Islamic seminaries that spread hard-line ideologies.
Anger and suspicion between Washington and Islamabad over the raid in Abbottabad, 30 miles (50 km) from the Pakistani capital, showed no sign of abating.
The New York Times on Saturday quoted (http://tribune.com.pk/story/163799/us-demands-pakistan-disclose-names-of-operatives-report/) Pakistani officials as saying the Obama administration had demanded Pakistan disclose the identities of some of its top intelligence operatives as Washington seeks to find out whether they had contact with Bin Laden or his agents before the raid on his compound.
The officials were providing details of what the Times called a tense discussion between Pakistani officials and a US envoy in Pakistan on Monday.
A Pakistani security official denied the report, which he called “untrue” and “malicious”.
Many in Washington suspect Pakistani authorities had been either grossly incompetent or playing a double game in the hunt for Bin Laden and the two countries’ supposed partnership against violent Islamists.
As it engages in damage control (http://tribune.com.pk/story/163802/after-bin-laden-isi-chief-leaves-for-us/) over Bin Laden’s presence, Pakistan’s government must prepare for the possibility that supporters angered by Bin Laden’s death will hit back. Since al Qaeda has ties with the Pakistani Taliban, this country could make an easy target.
Al Qaeda has acknowledged that Bin Laden is dead, dispelling doubts by some Muslims the militant group’s leader had really been killed by US forces, and vowed to mount more attacks (http://tribune.com.pk/story/163170/al-qaeda-confirms-bin-laden-death-vows-revenge/) on the West. The announcement on Friday by the militant organisation appeared intended to show its followers around the globe the group had survived as a functioning network.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/163836/bin-laden-may-have-lived-in-pakistan-for-over-7-years/

Peter Lemkin
05-07-2011, 02:39 PM
Doesn't this judge understand that his function in office is to support the War on Terror blindly, without criticism or independent thought?


Germany: Judge Files Criminal Charges Against Chancellor Merkel For Saying She Was “Glad” Bin Laden Was Killed…

A Hamburg judge has filed a criminal complaint against Chancellor Angela Merkel for "endorsing a crime" after she stated she was "glad" that Osama bin Laden was killed by US forces. Meanwhile a new poll reveals that a majority of Germans do not see the terrorist's death as a reason to celebrate.

Schadenfreude, the enjoyment of others' suffering, may be a famously German concept, but it is apparently not a feeling that many Germans aspire to. The political and public fallout following Chancellor Angela Merkel's statement on Monday that she was "glad" Osama bin Laden had been killed was among the most hotly debated topics in the German media this week.

Politicians, including those within her own center-right coalition, said that no death was cause for celebration, and reproved the remark as un-Christian and vengeful.

But Hamburg judge Heinz Uthmann went even further. He alleges that the chancellor's statement was nothing short of illegal, and filed a criminal complaint against Merkel midweek, the daily Hamburger Morgenpost reported Friday.

"I am a law-abiding citizen and as a judge, sworn to justice and law," the 54-year-old told the paper, adding that Merkel's words were "tacky and undignified."

In his two-page document, Uthmann, a judge for 21 years, cites section 140 of the German Criminal Code, which forbids the "rewarding and approving" of crimes. In this case, Merkel endorsed a "homicide," Uthmann claimed. The violation is punishable by up to three years' imprisonment or a fine.

"For the daughter of a Christian pastor, the comment is astonishing and at odds with the values of human dignity, charity and the rule of law," Uthmann told the newspaper.

A Sober German Reaction

While the judge's reaction may seem extreme, his sentiments are apparently shared by 64 percent of the German population. That was the proportion of Germans who said bin Laden's death was "no reason to rejoice" in a poll published by broadcaster ARD on Friday.

Among respondents who said they identified with Germany's three main opposition parties, an even greater proportion were disgusted with the jubilation over the al-Qaida leader's death. Their views mirror recent comments made by opposition politicians on the issue.

But even among supporters of Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats (CDU) and their junior coalition partners, the pro-business Free Democrats (FDP), barely half of those polled said they empathized with Merkel's view.

The chancellor has declined to withdraw her statement, but the outcry prompted government press spokesman Steffen Seibert to defend her on Thursday. "The reason for her happiness was the thought that this man would no longer pose any danger," he said, adding that her statement had been reported out of context.

Seibert added that Merkel "appreciates that those who heard only this sentence ... might have found the combination of the words 'death' and 'glad' in one phrase to be inappropriate."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-761077.html

Too bad he's not eligible to be an American Judge.....like the Supremes....

Our Police, Prosecutors and Judges put you away forever [often without legal process] for saying the same.

Peter Lemkin
05-07-2011, 03:05 PM
So, if true, OBL was in Pakistan [and not the Tribal Territories in the mountains for almost 9 years] - almost all the time from his leaving Tora Bora. :mexican: Or at least this legend would have it so.....this will obviously never get resolved 'officially', any more than Dallas, or a thousand other black and false-flag ops.

Jan Klimkowski
05-07-2011, 03:10 PM
The award for Stupidest Article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/06/osama-bin-laden-analysis-statement) by MSM Expert goes to Guardian Terror Analyst Jason Burke.

Burke is frequently rolled out for interview in "serious" documentaries as an Al Qaeda subject specialist.

Does he seriously believe that "the hardcore (Al-Qaida) leadership has always been bureaucratic, with councils and committees for almost everything"?

If this was true, a couple of drone or missile attacks - perhaps with nukes authorized by White House Hired Lawyers and rabid dogs like Cheney - would have ended the bogus "War on Terror" many years ago.


Al-Qaida statement should kill off Bin Laden conspiracy theories

Terror group's message reinforces conclusion that even without its leader, it is still capable of coherent action

Jason Burke guardian.co.uk, Friday 6 May 2011 16.45 BST

The most obvious effect of this statement from al-Qaida is to kill off some – if not all – of the rapidly multiplying conspiracy theories claiming Bin Laden is not dead. A poll published in Pakistan shows that 66% of people believe the man killed was not Osama bin Laden. Now, the only way to maintain that belief is to dismiss the al-Qaida statement as false.

This development does not necessarily vindicate Barack Obama for deciding not to release pictures of Bin Laden's corpse, but may mitigate the results of that decision.

Another effect is to reinforce the conclusion that even without its leader, al-Qaida is still capable of some kind of coherent action. Propaganda by deed has always been the favoured strategy of al-Qaida's leadership. Here then, is the propaganda.

The attention focused on this new statement takes us back to the days when al-Qaida under the leadership of Bin Laden had the ability to dominate the news agenda almost at will. Every video would receive front page treatment, every tape would have analysts scrambling into chairs in TV studios. Bin Laden even managed to steal the headlines in the days before the 2004 American presidential election with a judiciously timed statement.

But attention has gradually drifted away from al-Qaida. Two things could have returned the group to centre stage: a spectacular attack or the death of its leader. In the end it was the second.

Al-Qaida's communications channels are still clearly working. A statement has been prepared, vetted and disseminated relatively quickly. However fluid and dynamic the broader movement might have been, the hardcore leadership has always been bureaucratic, with councils and committees for almost everything. Clearly they are still meeting or at least talking amongst themselves – enough to be able to thrash out a statement. Decapitation has not stopped the organisation functioning, at least for the moment.

Al-Qaida appears to have been able to choose its timing too. The announcement came immediately after Friday prayers in the Arab world and, crucially, in Pakistan. For it is in Pakistan that al-Qaida calls on "our Muslim people … on whose land Sheikh Osama was killed to rise up and revolt".

The appeal to Pakistan is not new. Since 2007, al-Qaida propaganda has increasingly focused on it. With a population of nearly 200 million and deep troubles, it is rare, genuinely fertile ground for the violent al-Qaida extremists' narrative and ideology.

Likewise the statement continues al-Qaida's line on Palestine, a key theme for many years and one that Bin Laden knew was guaranteed to push the right buttons with an increasingly sceptical audience.

Any personality cult takes careful maintenance and the signs are that this effort will be made: "Sheikh Osama didn't build an organisation to die and then just to take it away with him."

Al-Qaida is careful to try to broaden its functions beyond the murderous violence that has turned away so many Muslims. "The university of faith, Qur'an and jihad that was founded by Sheikh Osama bin Laden hasn't and will not close its doors."

One of Osama bin Laden's key insights was that the mission should match the message, rather than vice versa. The question posed to security services around the world is: what is the mission matching the words that were issued this afternoon? When will the deed catch up with the propaganda.

Magda Hassan
05-07-2011, 03:18 PM
Makes no sense in any case does it? If Al Qaida is a sub department of Langley it's just their own counter script and if such an entity as AQ exists outside the confines of the Langley creation then it seems obvious they too have their own reason for playing the game.

Jan Klimkowski
05-07-2011, 03:32 PM
Makes no sense in any case does it? If Al Qaida is a sub department of Langley it's just their own counter script and if such an entity as AQ exists outside the confines of the Langley creation then it seems obvious they too have their own reason for playing the game.

Yup.

Burke's article begins with the truly inspired (my emphasis):


The most obvious effect of this statement from al-Qaida is to kill off some – if not all – of the rapidly multiplying conspiracy theories claiming Bin Laden is not dead. A poll published in Pakistan shows that 66% of people believe the man killed was not Osama bin Laden. Now, the only way to maintain that belief is to dismiss the al-Qaida statement as false.

Yes, Jason. That statement is as false as the concept of Al-Qaida as genuine terror organisation.

Al Qaeda is as much of a plot device as 1984's The Brotherhood, with Osama Bin Laden playing the role of Emmanuel Goldstein.

Peter Lemkin
05-07-2011, 05:35 PM
I feel as if I'm caught in a strange time machine....NOW, Al Jazeera is showing new videos provided by the Penatagang showing OBL watching [with black beard] himself [with white beard] on Al Jazeera on TV from his home...and there are others that were released of him talking [with no audio], so AJ is going to get some lip readers to tell what he says. One [to me] looks like him [not saying it is], the other looks a bit different and younger than some others we have seen of 'him'.....very bizarre stuff.....we were told audio with no video and we get video with no audio.....go figure out what the f*** they are doing, other than stringing this whole story out [I'd guess at least until the 10th anniversary of 911 and beyond]....and playing with our heads. Of OBL, whenever [if ever] he died....he is risen!!!! :angeldevil: Oh, yes, Pentagang say it was an active command and control center....and more.....the real hype is just about to come...

:wirlitzer: In psyop terms, rather than 'killing' the myth of OBL, they have built it into a cult or religion, of sorts; and made him a martyr, which in Islam is such an important position. :nono: Why do I not think by accident?! :shock:

The best I can figure [at this point] the 'officials' (sic) in the U SS A admit to knowing exactly who lived in that compound raided on Monday since August...and seem to hint that they knew since it was built. So, again, the why now question comes up....whether this was OBL, his ghost, his double, of some poor schmuck killed in his place. :alberteinstein:

Peter Lemkin
05-07-2011, 06:15 PM
The White House has just released a NEW proof it was OBL.....it seems the SEALS forgot their Swiss Army Knives and a measuring take [between 'killling' someone and dumping him into the sea (so they say)].....but a 6 foot SEAL lay down next to the corpse and his pals said the corpse was taller than the SEAL, so it had to be OBL.... That is magic bullet type forensics! :rofl:

Jan Klimkowski
05-08-2011, 09:54 AM
The Bin Laden "home movies" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/may/08/osama-bin-laden-video-pentagon) (as PsyOp Central has termed them) are truly pathetic.

(As is the fact that you have to watch an advert for IBM's "smarter planet" prior to seeing Osama. Maybe IBM should sign up Bin Laden to endorse their computers....)

Here's the Approved Narrative For MSM as duly delivered by the Guardian:


Bin Laden videos give a remarkable insight into life in his lair

Clips from the al-Qaida leader's 'home videos' show him obsessively watching himself on TV news programmes

In fact, they provide no "remarkable insights" into Osama, nor "life in his lair". Nice bit of sneering alliteration there....

And one clip of some random old geezer in profile watching a portable TV and using a remote in a bed sit which could be in Camden, Moscow, Lima or Timbuktu, does not establish that Osama "obsessively watched himself". I enjoyed the dodgy pan though - nice touch by the PsyOp team.

OK. These "home movies" prove absolutely nothing. For starters:

i) There is currently no evidence that the interior location is the recently raided compound;

ii) There is no proof that old man in profile with grey beard is Osama;

iii) The videos of "Young Osama" delivering Pieces To Camera (PTCs) are likely to have been in the possession of US intelligence for years - if indeed they weren't originally filmed by Langley;

iv) The lack of audio on the "Young Osama" PTCs make them highly suspect.

The US Volkland Security clowns have just delivered another risible scene in quite possibly the worst War On Terror production yet.

Peter Lemkin
05-08-2011, 11:00 AM
The Bin Laden "home movies" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/may/08/osama-bin-laden-video-pentagon) (as PsyOp Central has termed them) are truly pathetic.

The US Volkland Security clowns have just delivered another risible scene in quite possibly the worst War On Terror production yet.

They were worth a good laugh. An Arab journalist interviewed on Al Jazeera found it hard to believe that OBL could have aged and grayed as much as 'apparently', since he last interviewed him in person...and was suspect of the non-full-face in that home movie. The removal of the voice is a joke....in a few days all the Arab stations will have had lip readers telling what was said....but of course one will not be able to hear if the voice is like that of OBL....making things all that more suspicious. They also claim to have gotten Terabytes of electronic intelligence from the compound - possible, but VERY unlikely. I don't get the idea that those who knew and worked with or in parallel with OBL seem to be worried....but never forget from the beginning OBL was 'our' guy against the Ruskies.....and may well have always been 'our guy' in some way or other. Very odd [of so many odd things] is the silencing of the 17 captured persons at the compound and the whole bin Laden family's silence....some were known to still be close to him...and close or not, he was kin. The Bush Family [and select neo-cons] were 'kith'. :dance: Dead [and whenever dead] or alive - OBL has been made by Western Intelligence and Propaganda/PR into a mythical figure. I predict OBL T-shirts and posters, like Che T-shirts and posters in the Arab and Muslim world.

Oh, yes, the plan to kill him [no matter what - who] and to dump the body in the sea were all pre-scripted!...it has been so admitted. They keep leaking...and not to their advantage, IMO.

So, Jan, you don't think any of these or the earlier ones are up for Oscars? ;) [Best supporting actor; best special effects?]

Jan Klimkowski
05-08-2011, 11:50 AM
So, Jan, you don't think any of these or the earlier ones are up for Oscars? ;) [Best supporting actor; best special effects?]

Peter - I'm happy to dish out Golden Raspberry Awards for:

Worst Screenplay in a Big Budget Production (to PsyOp Central)

Worst Supporting Actress (to Hillary Clinton for her look of horror as Osama is executed - now described as a "summer cough")

Worst Director (again to PsyOp Central for failing to give us the Money Shots)

And of course the Razzie Award for Worst Prequel, Remake, Rip-off or Sequel (to US Volkland Security)...

Jan Klimkowski
05-08-2011, 11:54 AM
Here's lawyer Michael Mansfield with an introduction (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/08/michael-mansfield-bin-ladens-death-legality) to the legality or otherwise of this SEAL operation.

I disagree with some of Mansfield's analysis, but at least it's an attempt to place the operation, as relayed by the White House to MSM, in an international legal context:


The Osama bin Laden operation must be made transparent lest it's seen as frontier justice

The US needs to clarify the thinking behind the operation that led to the death of the al-Qaida leader so others don't take the stance of might over right

Michael Mansfield guardian.co.uk, Sunday 8 May 2011 00.06 BST Article history

George W Bush's remark about wanting Osama bin Laden "dead or alive" reminds us that many people have not moved on from the concepts of "frontier justice". The events provide an important opportunity for re-examining the role and respect to be accorded to the rule of law and the principles of international justice. If they are to mean anything when applied to other people, everyone needs to know the basis upon which the operation was launched that led to the killing of Bin Laden.

There is a growing and conscientious feeling of "discomfort" that can be allayed only by a thorough and transparent revelation about the objectives and actions taken. Unless this happens quickly, the powerful forces that work in our world, whether nation states or otherwise, will interpret this as a licence to take the law into their own hands, circumvent international norms and convert "might" into right.

President Barack Obama made a measured and carefully drafted announcement . The terms he used are specific. He began his speech with the inevitable reference to 9/11 and stated: "We were … united in our resolve to protect our nation and to bring those who committed this vicious attack to justice". He then moved on to deal with the development of intelligence, and a lead that arose last August in relation to the location of Bin Laden. "And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action and authorised an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice."

It is noticeable here that there was nothing about an operation in self-defence against a commander in the field during armed conflict; nor any hint of an operation conceived in vengeance and in order to avenge the multitude of deaths in cities around the world. It was an entirely proper and judicious expedition against a man who was undoubtedly responsible for persistent crimes against humanity.

Since Obama spoke these words, however, different interpretations and discrepancies have unfolded. Many of the observations have come from American commentators. For example, Michael Scheuer (CIA) told the BBC World Service: "This operation was not a capture operation, it was meant to kill him." Daniel J Coleman, who in 1996 was the first FBI agent attached to the CIA's Bin Laden investigation, told the New York Times that in relation to the attack on the destroyer USS Cole in 2000 "that the deaths of those young men and women were never avenged".

What therefore needs to be ascertained are the rules of engagement and briefing given to the taskforce, because if its real objective was not to bring Bin Laden to justice but to kill him this begins to have the appearance of an extra-judicial killing or assassination.

The president had little more to say about the operation itself other than: "After a fire-fight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body."

For most listeners this gives a clear impression that the Navy Seals were caught up in an exchange of fire with an armed man or men wherein Bin Laden was killed as a matter of necessary self-defence. This description, however, is deficient in two important respects: there was no exchange of fire and Bin Laden was not armed.

How these errors could have arisen is perplexing, because the president, Hilary Clinton and many other officials were, unusually, watching the operation on a live feed through to the situation room in the White House.

While it is entirely understandable that there should be a reluctance to publish any images at the present time, the availability of film and photographic evidence must be preserved for the benefit of an independent judicial examination.

There are other discrepancies concerning the actions of Bin Laden's wife, which also need to be considered.

The principle of self-defence
Self-defence is a long-standing and well-recognised principle of domestic and international law. While the United Nations has a monopoly on the use of force internationally, Article 51 of the UN charter makes an exception to this in its preservation of the right of self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a member of the UN.

Article 31 (1) c of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague also excludes criminal responsibility for an accused whose actions might otherwise constitute a crime in order to defend himself or another.

Article 2 (2) of the European Convention of Human Rights contains similar provisions, with a proviso that no more force than "is absolutely necessary" is used.

Underpinning this body of law is a consistent prerequisite that the force of the attack or threatened attack to be resisted is imminent. Hence the need for and significance of the "dodgy dossier" and the "45 minute" warning in the case of the Iraq war.

It is far from clear that these preconditions have been satisfied in the Bin Laden case. Normally, one might expect the UN or its security council or its secretary general to have raised these matters, but the euphoric and unquestioning speeches in the council suggest once more that an independent judicial body should be appointed to investigate these issues. Without it, public confidence in the point and utility of international law will be severely undermined.

Beyond the law?

There are some who argue that Bin Laden was above and beyond the law and that his case was not susceptible to the complexities and dangers of bringing him to justice in the Hague or even for that matter in the US. It is worth remembering that a case against Bin Laden had begun in the federal district court in Manhattan on 10 June 1998 and has been on-going and substantially amplified since then. According to the New York Times (May 5th), the original indictment was kept secret at first, coming at a time when the CIA was considering a plan to capture Bin Laden and turn him over for trial either in the US or in an Arab country.

In any event, the whole thrust of international treaties and conventions has been towards ensuring "due process" on the basis that no one can be considered to be above the law. Hence there has been a string of international tribunals dealing with equally heinous crimes committed by equally vicious perpetrators, stretching from Nuremburg and Tokyo to Yugoslavia and Cambodia. The US has steadfastly refused to sign up to the ICC for fear, no doubt, of the risks that it might end up in the dock. Nevertheless there have already been significant and successful prosecutions in the universal endeavour to bring about accountability and fair trial.

We should not allow truth and justice to become victims to the law of retribution along with other innocent victims of terror.

Magda Hassan
05-08-2011, 01:13 PM
I heard they also found porn lol. So, OBL is vain, with him watching himself on tv, dyeing his beard. He is stupid for fluffing his lines. He is a coward for using a woman as a human shield. No, scrap that one. He was armed and violent and engaged in a firefight with seals. No, scrap that one too, he was unarmed. We don't get to any photos of the dead Bin Laden but instead we get pictures of the live and vain Bin Laden or some old geezer, watching himself on tv and a group of sociopaths watching a snuff movie of Bin Laden which is apparently okay. We don't even get to listen to the voice of Osama. He is muted in more than one way. We are told his body was buried at sea because no nation would want it but we are never told which countries were asked or if they were asked. We know it belongs with his family. Then we are told that Bin Laden was buried at sea so his burial spot does not become a place of veneration, Mecca lite, even though most Muslims don't regard him highly. We are told he was buried at sea in accordance with Muslim burial practices though it is not permitted in Muslim law except under extraordinary circumstance and this not being one of them. We are told there will be no pictures because it would likely inflame too many people but since when have the US ever considered the sensibilities of any one else ever? All their words and deeds inflame the emotions of millions and not just Muslims. We had Che Guevarra as trophy on show, Saddam Hussein and his 2 sons, Mussollini and his mistress. Why not Osama? Is it because his ears and nose have already been taken as a trophy to hang on one of the 70 trained circus seals dog tag? Is it because they blasted the captured invalid's face off and don't wish to show evidence of their war crimes? Did he meet the same fate as Daniel Pearle? Will we see that it is just some poor dumb schmuck and not the legendary Osama at all?
:flypig::flypig::flypig:

Jan Klimkowski
05-08-2011, 01:25 PM
I heard they also found porn lol.

:flypig::flypig::flypig:

PsyOp Central missed a trick there. They could have keyed some pornography into the TV screen. "Mohamad Atta Parties with Strippers Prior to 9/11" would have been a fine choice.

PS I just watched the "home movies" again to check a couple of details and, instead of the IBM "Smarter Planet" advert, I was subjected to a promotional film about Dubai claiming "in Dubai every day is an opportunity". Some bizarre shit....

Peter Lemkin
05-08-2011, 04:40 PM
May 7, 2011
Author: Noam Chomsky
Source: Guernica

It’s increasingly clear that the operation was a planned assassination, multiply violating elementary norms of international law. There appears to have been no attempt to apprehend the unarmed victim, as presumably could have been done by 80 commandos facing virtually no opposition—except, they claim, from his wife, who lunged towards them. In societies that profess some respect for law, suspects are apprehended and brought to fair trial. I stress “suspects.” In April 2002, the head of the FBI, Robert Mueller, informed the press that after the most intensive investigation in history, the FBI could say no more than that it “believed” that the plot was hatched in Afghanistan, though implemented in the UAE and Germany. What they only believed in April 2002, they obviously didn’t know 8 months earlier, when Washington dismissed tentative offers by the Taliban (how serious, we do not know, because they were instantly dismissed) to extradite bin Laden if they were presented with evidence—which, as we soon learned, Washington didn’t have. Thus Obama was simply lying when he said, in his White House statement, that “we quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda.”

Nothing serious has been provided since. There is much talk of bin Laden’s “confession,” but that is rather like my confession that I won the Boston Marathon. He boasted of what he regarded as a great achievement.

There is also much media discussion of Washington’s anger that Pakistan didn’t turn over bin Laden, though surely elements of the military and security forces were aware of his presence in Abbottabad. Less is said about Pakistani anger that the U.S. invaded their territory to carry out a political assassination. Anti-American fervor is already very high in Pakistan, and these events are likely to exacerbate it. The decision to dump the body at sea is already, predictably, provoking both anger and skepticism in much of the Muslim world.

We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic. Uncontroversially, his crimes vastly exceed bin Laden’s, and he is not a “suspect” but uncontroversially the “decider” who gave the orders to commit the “supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole” (quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal) for which Nazi criminals were hanged: the hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, destruction of much of the country, the bitter sectarian conflict that has now spread to the rest of the region.

There’s more to say about [Cuban airline bomber Orlando] Bosch, who just died peacefully in Florida, including reference to the “Bush doctrine” that societies that harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves and should be treated accordingly. No one seemed to notice that Bush was calling for invasion and destruction of the U.S. and murder of its criminal president.

Same with the name, Operation Geronimo. The imperial mentality is so profound, throughout western society, that no one can perceive that they are glorifying bin Laden by identifying him with courageous resistance against genocidal invaders. It’s like naming our murder weapons after victims of our crimes: Apache, Tomahawk… It’s as if the Luftwaffe were to call its fighter planes “Jew” and “Gypsy.”

There is much more to say, but even the most obvious and elementary facts should provide us with a good deal to think about.

Jan Klimkowski
05-08-2011, 10:32 PM
According to Pakistan's President Musharaff, shortly after 9/11, US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage threatened to "bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age".

Looks like similar threats are immiment (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/08/osama-bin-laden-pakistan-obama):


Barack Obama has ratcheted up the pressure on Pakistan, demanding that the Pakistani government investigates whether its own people were involved in a network to support Osama bin Laden in his Abbottabad hideout.

The US president's comments are his most direct yet on the subject of Pakistan's possible complicity with terrorism. He told the CBS show 60 Minutes that Bin Laden must have had "some sort of support network" inside the country.

"We don't know whether there might have been some people inside of government, outside of government, and that's something we have to investigate, and more importantly, the Pakistani government has to investigate," he said.

Obama's words add to a sustained verbal attack by the US administration on the Pakistani government in the wake of the raid on the al-Qaida leader's lair in the middle of a busy garrison town that is home to three regiments, a military academy and thousands of soldiers.

Last week the CIA director, Leon Panetta, told Congress that Pakistan had been "either involved or incompetent".

Tom Donilon, the national security adviser, said on ABC's This Week that there was no evidence Pakistan had foreknowledge of Bin Laden's presence. But he said the al-Qaida chief "was living, and we now know operating, in a town 35 miles away from Islamabad, a military town. So questions are being raised quite aggressively in Pakistan."

Pakistan is clearly worried. It's introduced new restrictions for foreign broadcasters, effectively declaring all foreign reporters as likely spies, and also retaliated by naming - "outing" - the CIA Station Chief in Islamabad.

Perhaps, as speculated earlier in this thread, based on non-western media sources, the "raid" was actually a Pakistani operation which met with unexpected resistance from deep covert, off the books, (ie illegal), US special forces.


Bin Laden: Pakistan instructs global media to stop 'illegal broadcasts'

TV regulator imposes new licence requirement after critical coverage from Abbottabad

Declan Walsh in Islamabad and Saeed Shah in Abbottabad guardian.co.uk, Sunday 8 May 2011 14.58 BST

The Pakistani government has introduced curbs on international media in the garrison town where Osama bin Laden was killed, ordering television stations to cease broadcasting and some reporters to leave town.

On Saturday night the television regulator, Pemra, ordered nine international channels, including the BBC, CNN and Fox, to stop "illegal" broadcasts from Abbottabad, where Bin Laden's house has been the subject of intense media coverage

It suggested the channels could not broadcast from Abbottabad or anywhere in Pakistan without obtaining a licence, a previously unknown requirement. Simultaneously, government officials contacted several British, Australian and American journalists, instructing them to leave Abbottabad because their visas did not permit them to stay.

The government also took measures to stop more journalists entering Pakistan. At diplomatic missions in London and New Delhi, Pakistani officials said there was a temporary hold on media visas.

The measures appeared to be part of a concerted government effort to stem a tide of critical media coverage over thorny questions about how Bin Laden lived for up to six years in a garrison town that is home to three regiments, a military academy and thousands of soldiers.

Implementation, however, has been haphazard. The BBC foreign editor, Jon Williams, said the station had not received the government letter instructing it to quit broadcasting, and a BBC reporter in Pakistan said operations were continuing as normal.

But a Channel 4 journalist said the station had been told to return to Islamabad and seek permission to work in Abbottabad. The broadcaster's crew left at lunchtime on Sunday.

Until now most western criticism has been directed at Pakistan's military and intelligence agencies. Some US officials have insinuated that the powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) helped to harbour Bin Laden.

Now the ISI is hitting back with judicious media leaks. In a move bound to infuriate the US, on Friday several Pakistani television stations named the CIA station chief in Islamabad as Mark Carlton; the stations said he had been given a verbal roasting by the ISI chief, General Shuja Pasha.

The naming is sensitive because the previous CIA chief in Islamabad quit his position over security worries last December after being named in a court case and the national media. Some US officials blamed the ISI for the leak.

The military's other weapon in the media war has been leaked accounts of life with Bin Laden from his surviving wives and children, who are believed to be in military custody near the general headquarters in Rawalpindi.

Bin Laden's 12-year-old daughter, named as Safiya, reportedly told Pakistani investigators that she saw her father being shot by US forces. Local media have reprinted a copy of the passport of one of Bin Laden's wives, 29-year-old Amal Ahmed al-Sadah, a citizen of Yemen, although some versions of the image appear to have been digitally altered.

Other leaks have sent journalists on apparent wild goose chases. On Saturday the New York Times and the Pakistani paper Dawn, quoting Pakistani officials, said Sadah had claimed that Bin Laden lived for two and a half years in a small north-western village before moving to Abbottabad in 2005.

The news triggered a media stampede to Chak Shah Mohammad, near Abbottabad, where journalists discovered a hamlet of a few hundred houses and about 2,000 inhabitants with no internet or telephone connection. But at the time there was little sign of Bin Laden. Most houses were small, mud-brick dwellings, while the only one with high walls was that of the local mullah and still under construction.

As reporters swarmed the village, shops sold out of bottled water, one school closed for the day, and the villagers denied any connection with the Saudi. Some wondered whether there was a connection between a local cave complex and Tora Bora, Bin Laden's hideout in late 2001. "Bora means cave. So yes, both places have caves," one elder laconically told the Daily Times newspaper. "Will we be bombed now?"

Ed Jewett
05-08-2011, 11:57 PM
John Stanton has a document for download at Cryptome.

First, the Wikipedia entry for John Stanton from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stanton_(journalist):

John Stanton is a journalist, analyst and teacher (national security) living in the Washington, DC Metropolitan Area. He has written dozens of articles for online publications (non-compensated) such as Pravda (also publishes a broadsheet in Russia), Sri Lanka Guardian, Counterpunch, Cryptome, Dawn, Intel Daily, Security Management, Journal of Technology Transfer, Seoul Times and more. He has also written dozens of articles (compensated) for publications including National Defense Magazine, Defense Daily, American Behavioral Scientist (Terror in Cyberspace) and Convergence Magazine. He appeared on CBS, ABC and CNN immediately after 9/11 commenting on Homeland Security & Defense. He is a former radio talk show host, magazine editor, and deputy program manager. He appeared on Russia Today TV commenting on the US Army's Human Terrain System. His book on that subject is titled General David Petraeus' Favorite Mushroom--The Inside Story of the US Army Human Terrain System. That book is published by Wiseman Publishing, a print-on-demand (POD) editing and publishing firm (no fees paid by the author). Stanton has three other POD published books/collections of essays: America's Nightmare: The Presidency of George Bush II, A Power But Not Super, and Talking Politics with God and the Devil in Washington, DC.
His analysis and commentary has been carried in print and radio around the globe. He wrote extensively on cyberwar/information warfare in the 1994-2000 timeframe when the Bill Clinton Administration was pushing cyber defense initiatives. He has written articles on technical matters such as electromagnetic pulse affects, MOUT, training and simulation, and orphan nukes; presented papers on Asynchronous Transfer Mode, Strategic Cultural Analysis and Evolutionary Cognitive Neuroscience; along with authoring numerous articles commenting on media, culture, race and politics.
Stanton has authored roughly 30 articles over a two year period on the US Army's (TRADOC) Human Terrain System. Those articles are based on nearly 80 sources. All of them are available at Dr. Max Forte's Zero Anthropology and John Young's Cryptome. Intelligence Daily and Pravda have also carried the works.
The Sri Lanka Guardian first carried Stanton's 2010 piece titled USA Undermines Democracy in Turkey: It's Turkey Stupid, Not Israel. That piece discusses the internal dynamics of Turkey's efforts to maintain democratic reforms, a free press and an open culture. Pravda also carried the effort.
[edit]External links

www.counterpunch.org/stanton06182010.html
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/03-11-2009/110267-social_decay-0
http://www.counterpunch.org/stanton11032009.html
http://cryptome.org/0001/hts-birth.htm
http://abs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/45/6/1017
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2001/February/Pages/US_Homeland7117.aspx
http://www.springerlink.com/content/y322680tml37150x/
http://www.amazon.com/General-David-Petraeus-Favorite-Mushroom/dp/9089630198/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263498671&sr=1-1-spell
http://www.springerlink.com/content/y322680tml37150x/
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/ARCHIVE/2000/FEBRUARY/Pages/Rules 4391.aspx?PF=1
http://aerade.cranfield.ac.uk/shrivenham_index.php?m=b&sid=65
http://www.amazon.com/Talking-Politics-Devil-Washington-D-C/dp/1424191246
http://www.amazon.com/America-2004-Power-But-Super/dp/1893302261
http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Nightmare-John-Stanton/dp/1893302296
http://www.fifth-estate-online.co.uk/comment/Stanton_comment_Revised.pdf
http://www.counterpunch.org/stanton11012003.html

The source: obl-kill-mmo.doc Bin Laden Kill a NatSec Media Manage Operation May 8, 2011

Lastly, the document itself (color and other emphasis by poster):

US National Security Information Operations:
Obama’s Bin Laden Kill Sets Precedent

by John Stanton

According to the Army Special Operations Forces Unconventional Warfare, September 2008, “Information is a strategic resource vital to national security. Dominance of the information environment is a reality that extends to the armed forces of the United States at all levels. Military operations, in particular, are dependent upon many simultaneous and integrated activities that, in turn, depend upon information and information systems, which the United States must protect…With the free flow of information present in all theaters, such as TV, phone, and Internet, conflicting messages can quickly emerge to defeat the intended effects. As a result, continuous synchronization and coordination between Information Operations, Public Affairs, Public Diplomacy, and U.S. allies is imperative. It also helps to ensure that information themes employed during operations involving neutral or friendly populations remain consistent.”

In short, the media in all its forms—mass, blog, social, print, electronic, spoken word—is a physical element to be accounted for in national security operations just like the weather or inhospitable geographic terrain. And that means citizen consumers of information are absorbing content from providers who are accounted for and manipulated by national security commanders (civilian and military) in planning and executing operations.

Shaping the information environment means targeting the media not with violence but with logrolling techniques, trial balloons, trades/leaks, etc. The main stream media (MSM) is the focus of these efforts as the population/culture largely looks to the MSM for guidance on how to dress, think, travel, eat, listen, watch and speak. The Combatant Commands and the US Department of Defense News Services assist in shaping the consciousness of the nation as well.

I Shot Bin Laden, But I Didn’t Shoot the Deputy

The National Security Operation approved by US President Barak Obama that ended Osama Bin Laden’s was a gem in terms of Military Information Support Operations (though it should be renamed National Security Information Operations). Planning included meeting with editors of US publications like The New York Times, Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal. CNN and FOX, and select allies, were likely briefed as well. These outlets transmit the voices and thoughts of those who take the country to war, set economic policy, and decide whether a Broadway play succeeds or fails.

Even though the original version of the Bin Laden story continues to crumble/change, it was wildly successful in stimulating US nationalism through the media’s constant repetition of the matter. Even Hezbollah’s website Al Manar carried wires stories from AP on Bin Laden’s ignominious demise.

But it is far too early for anyone to speculate what the fallout will be from the targeted killing of Bin Laden and the use of the media to exploit his death and humiliate Pakistan. Kristen Eichensehr’s Assassination Policy Under International Law--in the May 2006*issue of Harvard International Review-- cautions against the celebratory madness seen in the USA after Bin Laden’s death. It reminds that retribution against US leaders should not be unexpected.

“Publicized US employment of targeted killings in the war on terror made a return to the previous era of credible moral superiority in rhetoric impossible. The preferable alternative to targeted killing of enemies should always be arrest and trial, but in cases where those alternative measures are not available, targeted killing may be the next best alternative. However, careful calculation of the risks and benefits of employing the policy must be weighed before it is implemented. The threat of reciprocity and repercussions for society are serious considerations that are often not given enough weight, and the policy should be re-examined continually to evaluate its effectiveness in decreasing the threat to the employing state's citizens. In some instances, targeted killings are both legal and effective, but for societies founded on principles of human rights, they should never be the first choice.”

Higher on the list of tasks for the Navy Seals, than terminating Bin Laden, was to gather information/intelligence from Bin Laden’s hideout that would allow further exploitation and shaping of the domestic and global information terrain; and, hence, public consciousness on matters of national security. Indeed, much appears to have been collected by the pickers on the Navy Seal Teams (designated shooters and pickers of information) in the form of hard drives and other electronic/print media.

This has provided the National Security System, led by President Obama, to “do a Wikileaks.” Over the coming months (and years?) bits and bytes of Bin Laden’s operation will be given to, or leaked to, favored media outlets. The Hollywood liaison offices at the Pentagon and elsewhere will be busy working with script writers for the Bin Laden story to further shape the information environment via the movie screen.

Cry Havoc! Let Loose the Electrons and Photons of War

Like their US counterparts in the national security machinery, The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan has similar views on the importance of media exploitation. They are savvy too.

“Wars today cannot be won without media. Media is directed to the heart rather than the body. The weapon is directed to the body. If the heart is defeated the battle is won and the body is defeated. In the beginning, with the fall of the Islamic Emirate, the enemy thought that the field was completely open before them, and they spread their lies and falsehoods that they had destroyed the Islamic Emirate and its Mujahideen and that their victory in the land of Afghanistan was complete. All of their resources, especially their media were directed towards changing the ideas of Afghans and injecting defeatist thought into them and instilling in them a petrifying fear of the new occupiers. First through the grace of Allah,*subhanahu wa ta'ala, then through the victories of the Mujahideen and their rightly guided leadership; and after defeats were inflicted on the enemy on the field of battle, a media committee was established to contest with the enemy in the (media) field.

Among other committees, the Islamic Emirates established a special Media Committee to spread news about Jihadist activities in different fields and chase away the voice of the unjust enemy who, before the entire world, was distorting the image of the Jihad in Afghanistan and was claiming false victories here and there over the Mujahideen. Need called for the existence of a media agency to take responsibility for the Mujahideen in Afghanistan; speaking on behalf of the Islamic Emirate; delivering news of its victories on the battlefield to its friends and to the world; exposing the falsehood of its enemies and their media; responding to the claims and its daily changing deceptions; and delivering to the world the voice of truth and jihad and its point of view about current Jihadist events in the land of Afghanistan.

Our website specializes in conveying field reports from the combat zones and publishing the statements of the Ameer ul-Momineen and the statements of the Command Shura Council about different issues pertaining to Jihad, in addition to articles and official analysis. They have many sections: for example there’s an Islam page, a magazines page, and a page for films produced by official studios. We also print magazines and statements and distribute them in popular circles at home and abroad. Additionally, we produce different publications and regulations and distribute them among the Mujahideen. There is also a “Voice of Shari’ah” that broadcasts news and official statements day and night.”

Civil and Military Become One, Media a Tool

It now seems ridiculous to use the term “military operations” since the lines differentiating civilian and military practice have long since ceased to exist. The only notable difference between civilian and the military is in the clothing; one sports a Brooks Brothers business suit, the other military gear adorned with awards.

At any rate, President Barak Obama implied as much in his National Security Strategy of the USA. As a matter of policy, America has gone “beyond traditional distinctions” indicating that America’s homeland defense, commercial activities and military operations have all fused together to defeat terrorists, drug lords, the black market, et al. The moniker selected for this is “Whole of Government, Whole of Nation” effort which the world will hear more of in the coming months and years.

Better now to think of the USA as a National Security System. National Security Operations are conducted on either the strategic or tactical level using any one or all of the USA’s instruments of national power as excellently defined by the US Army’s Unconventional Warfare manual cited above. Those elements of power are diplomatic, information, military, economic, intelligence, law enforcement, and financial.

So, where to turn to for the news? How to differentiate between news content of Al Manar (Hezbollah) and the New York Times? How to know whether the Washington Post or Press TV (Iran) has the right angle on the story? The “bad guys” at those publications are carrying items off the AP, Reuters’ wires. They report on floods in the US Midwest like their US counterparts. Al Manar is a huge fan of NBA basketball and LeBron James. And what to make of the reporting style of Xinhua (China) or the Daily Star (Lebanon)?

The US Army Special Forces document cited above outlines the dangers of a centralized media. The hazards are real, the battlefield is everywhere now, and the mind, or heart, is the target.

Conspiracy Theorists: Take a Hike!

Understanding the operation of the National Security System is not hard if one is an educated information consumer, a student of the information terrain cognizant of the doctrines used by those who manipulate and attempt to shape individual and collective thought. Marketers selling soda and beer use techniques that are similar.

Before forming opinions based on information provided by the media be it Fox News, Press TV, Al Manar, the Wall Street Journal or the Washington Post, beware the hazards of National Security Operations.

Hazards of centralized mass media include the following: 1.) A disproportion of power occurs and disproportionate informational power accrues to those who control centralized mass media; arguably, it is inherently undemocratic. 2.) An inability to transmit tacit knowledge; the context of content presented must either be explicitly explained or is assumed to be understood by the receiver. 3.) An inclination to focus on the unusual and sensational to capture the receivers’ attention, leading to a distortion and trivialization of reality. 4.) The deliberate promotion of emotions such as anxiety, fear, or greed can be used to sell a particular agenda. 5.) An inability to deal with complex issues because of time and economic constraints leads to simplification, further distorting and trivializing reality.

John Stanton is a Virginia based writer specializing in national security and political matters. Reach him at cioran123@yahoo.com.

Ed Jewett
05-09-2011, 12:14 AM
SATURDAY, MAY 07, 2011

False Flags: An American Tradition
by Stephen Lendman

Wikipedia defines false or black flags as "covert operations designed to deceive the public in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities."

They're "big lies," defined by Merriam-Webster as "deliberate gross distortion(s) of the truth used especially as a propaganda tactic."

America's decade from September 11, 2001 to May 1, 2011 was punctuated by the (big) lie of our time and (big) lie of the moment.

Put another way, the official stories are falsified, myths, widely believed fantasies contrary to reality.

In his exhaustive research and writings, David Ray Griffin provided convincing evidence that 9/11 was an inside job and that bin Laden died of natural causes in mid-December 2001.

The former spawned a decade of overt and covert "war on terror" lawlessness at home and abroad. Policies and events following the second have yet to unfold, but expect little at best to be positive.

Past US false flags provided pretexts for militarism, wars, occupations, domestic repression, and national security state extremism, antithetical to democratically free and open societies. Allegedly removing America's "Enemy Number One," in fact, may intensify, not diminish, Washington's scheme for unchallengeable global dominance. More on him below.

With or without bin Laden, bogymen threats are plentiful. Since WW II alone, America's had numerous ones, including communists, Al Qaeda, WMDs, the Taliban, Gaddafi, and a host others yet unnamed, as well as numerous "foiled" domestic ones.

Among others, they include:

-- a fake shoe bomber;

-- fake underwear bomber;

-- fake Times Square bomber;

-- an earlier one there;

-- fake shampoo bombers;

-- fake Al Qaeda woman planning fake mass casualty attacks on New York landmarks;

-- fake Oregon bomber;

-- fake armed forces recruiting station bomber;

-- fake synagogue bombers;

-- fake Chicago Sears Tower bombers;

-- fake FBI and other building bombers;

-- fake National Guard, Fort Dix and Quantico marine base attackers;

-- fake 9/11 bombers; and

-- others to enlist public support for the fake war on terror and very real ones it spawned.

America, Pakistan, Bin Laden, Official Lies, and Misreporting

On May 5, New York Times writer Elisabeth Bumiller headlined, "Pentagon Breaks Silence on Pakistani Role," saying:

A "top Pentagon official said....Pakistan would have to work hard to rebuild relations with the United States Congress," including a commitment "to fighting terrorism...."

It suggests what some analysts suspect: namely, planned destabilization, confrontation, and balkanization for greater Eurasian control, as well as future terrorist false flags.

On May 5, Times writers Mark Mazzetti and Scott Shane headlined, "Data Show Bin Laden Plots; CIA Hid Near Raided House," saying:

Alleged "computer files and documents seized at the compound where Osama bin Laden was killed," reveal "considered attacks on American railroads, (but) there was no evidence of a specific plot."

Perhaps no files and documents either. For sure, no bin Laden.

Nonetheless, "(s)ince Sunday night, counterterrorism officials have been alert to (possible) new attacks from Al Qaeda to avenge its leader's death," especially at airports, rail facilities, and other strategic locations. "American officials and terrorism experts have warned that this is not the end of Al Qaeda," not, of course, if they're blamed for planned false flags to intensify US imperial wars.

Another May 5 Bumiller Times report ran cover for shifting official accounts about what really happened on May 1 headlined, "Raid Account, Hastily Told, Proves Fluid," saying:

"(I)t was a classic collision of a White House desire to promote a stunning national security triumph - and feed a ravenous media - while collecting facts from a chaotic military operation on the other side of the world. At the same time, White House officials worked hard to use the facts of the raid to diminish Bin Laden's legacy."

She continued, quoting an unnamed Pentagon official claiming no "intent to deceive or dramatize," adding that "Everything we put out we really believed to be true at the time." She also quoted Victoria Clarke, Bush Pentagon spokeswoman, saying, "First reports are always wrong. It's a fundamental truth in military affairs."

In other words, it was OK first to claim a fierce firefight in which no US forces were killed or hurt, then 24 hours later call the battle one-sided, Navy Seals quickly dispatching bin Laden's guards and "Enemy Number One," shooting him unarmed in the head.

Notably, however, there's no body, no photos, no video, no evidence, and no truth, just the media regurgitated big lie.

In fact, more lies compounded it, including about:

-- Pakistan's alleged knowledge of his presence;

-- claimed evidence confirming it and assault specifics; and

-- fabricated bad theater, explained in a slapdash, keystone cops manner.

High Level Skepticism

Appearing on CNN May 5, former Pakistani intelligence chief, Hamid Gul, told "In the Arena's" host Eliot Spitzer that bin Laden died years earlier, saying:

"Yes, I think he died - he perished some years ago, and I think this was a story which was created (because) nobody would want to believe this version....I (don't believe) the story which was given out by the American media and by the American administration."

Whoever was killed May 1 "was probably somebody else....(American authorities) must have known that he died some years ago....were keeping this story on the ice and they were looking for an appropriate moment" to announce it.

"(P)eople simply not in Pakistan alone but around the world....don't believe the stories that have been put out."

In other words, the entire account was fabricated, the event staged, Western media, including The New York Times, running cover for the big lie. Gul politely called it "a huge intelligence failure."

Notable American and Other False Flags

Discussed in earlier writing, numerous ones stand out, including:

-- In 1898, Spain was falsely accused of blowing up the USS Maine in Havana, Cuba harbor. The Spanish-American war followed.

-- On May 7, 1915, a German U-boat was accused of torpedoing the RMS Lusitania, killing 128 US citizens. It helped precipitate America's April 4, 1917 WW I entry, a war Woodrow Wilson wanted and got through a propaganda campaign, turning pacifist Americans into German haters. It was later learned that on board munitions, not a torpedo, exploded, sinking the ship.

-- In 1933 Germany, a week before general elections, the strategically timed Reichstag fire (home of the German parliament) was blamed on communists. President Paul von Hindenburg's emergency decree followed. Civil liberties were suspended. Weimar Republic democracy ended, and Hitler assumed fascist powers after enough Nazis were elected to assure it.

-- On August 31, 1939, Nazis impersonating Polish terrorists attacked the Gleiwitz radio station on the border between the two countries, starting WW II.

-- On December 7, 1941, Roosevelt manipulated Japan to attack Pearl Harbor, giving him the war he wanted from the early 1930s, but had to convince a pacifist public of the threat. The fleet was also tracked across the Pacific, but Admiral HE Kimmel wasn't warned or given known intelligence to assure enough mass casualties for congressional and public support.

-- Complicit with Washington, numerous 1949/1950 South Korean incursions north precipitated Pyongyang's retaliation in June 1950, giving Truman the war he wanted.

-- In 1962, a US Joint Chiefs of Staff proposed false flag never happened because Kennedy rejected it. Called Operation Northwoods (a part of Operation Mongoose), it included sinking US ships, shooting down US commercial airliners, blowing up buildings in US cities, attacking America's Guantanamo base, other incidents, and blaming it on Cuba as a reason for war.

-- The fake August 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident initiated full-scale retaliation against North Vietnam after Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, authorizing war without declaring it.

-- In October 1983, after ousting Prime Minister Maurice Bishop, US forces invaded Grenada, allegedly to rescue American medical students threatened by nonbelligerent Cubans building infrastructure.

-- In December 1989, manufactured incidents precipitated America's Panama invasion, deposing Manuel Noriega, one-time ally turned enemy because he forgot who's boss.

-- in August 1990, Washington colluded with the al- Sabah monarchy, entrapping Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait. In January 1991, it launched the Gulf War, followed by over two decades of sanctions, more war occupation, and destruction of the "cradle of civilization."

-- The September 11, 2001 false flag operation launched a decade of imperial wars against Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, Palestine allied with Israel, perhaps others to come, as well as proxy wars in Somalia, Yemen, Bahrain, Central Africa, Haiti, Honduras, Colombia, and at home against Muslims, Latino immigrants, and working Americas.

On February 16, 2010, a Washington's blog web site (georgewashington2.blogspot.com) article titled, "Governments ADMIT That They Carry Out False Flag Terror" listed examples, including:

-- The CIA admitted its 1950s role in toppling Iran's democratically government in 1953.

-- Israel acknowledged a 1954 attack in Egypt, including planting bombs in US diplomatic facilities, leaving "evidence" of Arab involvement.

-- Indonesia's former president, Abdurrahman Wahid, said the nation's police or military most likely were involved in the 2002 Bali bombing, killing over 200 people.

-- A former Italian prime minister, judge, and military counterintelligence head, General Gianadelio Maletti, said America's CIA instigated and abetted right wing terrorist groups in the 1970s and earlier, including bombing a Milan bank in 1969 to rally popular anti-communist support in Italy and other European countries.

-- Many others, including former Carter administration National Security Adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, telling a Senate committee that a false flag terror attack on US soil might occur to blame Iran and justify war.

In his 1997 book, "The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and its Geostrategic Imperatives," he said:

"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multicultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat," the kind 9/11 created - predicted, planned, orchestrated, and carried out to further new world order global dominance.

Other False Flag Examples

-- The March 2004 Madrid train bombings occurred three days before Spain's general elections. With no supportive evidence, they were blamed on Al Qaeda, yet they stoked public fear of threats against other Western cities, including American ones.

-- The July 7, 2005 London underground bombings (called 7/7) were a series of attacks on the city's public transport system during the morning rush hour for maximum disruption and casualties. At precisely the same time, an anti-terror drill occurred, simulating real attacks. It was no coincidence, others in America and Britain came on the same day.

-- On 9/11 morning, the CIA ran a "pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building." Held at the Agency's Chantilly, Virginia Reconnaissance Office, AP reported (on August 22, 2002) that it simulated "a small corporate jet (hitting) one of the four towers....after experiencing a mechanical failure."

Unmentioned at the time was a later revealed (but unreported) Homeland Security conference announcement a year later to commemorate the 9/11 event. Held under the auspices of the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute, one of its speakers was John Fulton, CIA Chief of the Strategic War Gaming Division of the National Reconnaissance office in charge of the operation. Another coincidence, or was something more sinister afoot?

In October 2000, the Pentagon simulated a commercial plane striking the Pentagon, coordinated by its Command Emergency Response Team and the Defense Protective Services Police. This and the 9/11 exercises are more than coincidental, given what's now known and the fallout.

-- On June 30, 2007, a Jeep Cherokee with propane canisters crashed into Glasgow International Airport's glass doors, the BBC reporting that it "was in the middle of the doorway burning....The car didn't actually explode. There were a few pops and bangs which presumably was the petrol."

The usual suspects were falsely blamed, Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorists.

In Miami, on January 11, 2010 (one day before Haiti's earthquake), the Pentagon's US Southern Command (SOUTHCOM) simulated a hurricane striking the island in preparation for subsequent measures to be implemented. A carefully prepared military operation, they included occupying, controlling, and plundering the island.

Also, Deputy SOUTHCOM head, General PK Keen, was in Haiti when the quake struck, ready to assume command when it did and use a communication tool called the Transnational Information Sharing Cooperation project (TISC), linking other nations and NGOs with the Pentagon and US government to facilitate measures to be implemented. None were to help Haitians.

A Final Comment

Exposed as bad theater, New York Times writer Elizabeth Harris further discredited the broadsheet, headlining:

"Al Qaeda Confirms Bin Laden's Death," citing an unconfirmed statement, warning of new attacks to come. It also said an audio recording days before his death will soon be released. In fact, past video and audio ones were exposed as fakes.

Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago and can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net. Also visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com and listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network Thursdays at 10AM US Central time and Saturdays and Sundays at noon. All programs are archived for easy listening.

http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-progressive-news-hour/.
posted by Steve Lendman @ 1:23 AM

Ed Jewett
05-09-2011, 01:37 AM
THURSDAY, MAY 05, 2011

Obama's Osama V
"Shot dead 'with money sewn into his clothes': Bin Laden was captured alive and then executed, 'claims daughter, 12'" This story actually makes much, much, much more sense than any of the various versions of the Official Story from the American government, but to accept it you have to assume that bin Laden was a CIA asset all along, already fully debriefed, and thus of no more use from an intelligence point of view. In the absence of any more information, I'm going to take this as the definitive account (although I have to say it is surprising that we are hearing anything from the daughter).

"Security officials said they did not recover any arms and explosives during their detailed search of the compound and the 13-roomed house, during which they removed two buffalos, a cow and around 150 chickens." American soldiers ate well that night! The lack of weapons is more reason to believe he was effectively a prisoner of Pakistan.
AT 5/05/2011 04:54:00 AM 6 COMMENTS AND 0 REACTIONS


SATURDAY, MAY 07, 2011

Obama's Osama VI
There is not much more to be said, particularly as this conspiracy has been so obvious that it has appeared in the mainstream media and even in the blogs of the conspiracy-fearing American 'left'. Killing Osama bin Laden as described and re-described to us means either:
someone in the Navy Seals made a horrible mistake;
the guy in the compound wasn't Osama, and they killed him just so Obama could announce the death of an Osama who had died of natural causes years before; or
Osama was a CIA asset all along, and there was nothing more they could learn from him (and his continued life in interrogation could prove embarrassing).
Alternatively, I've even seen the theory that the raid, death, burial at sea, etc., were all a ruse to cover the live capture of the real Osama, who can now be quietly tortured without raising the hackles of his supporters.

Of all the many 'corrections' in the Official Story, the most important was to walk back the boasting that Obama watched the raid from a live feed. If this was true, Obama's speech contained barefaced lies.

I note hints of dissent within American institutions. This Navy Seal unit committed mass breaches of international law (and probably complete breaches of their orders), mowing down unarmed innocent civilians on the way to the target. Many of the stories we've seen seem to be calculated to hide the wrongdoing. Alternative corrected stories appear to be coming from known CIA assets, indicating that the CIA may be displeased at again being kept out of the loop except for the grunt work, with all the glory going to the Pentagon.

It is such a mess we'll never know what happened, especially since there is never any cost in American politics for lying.
AT 5/07/2011 10:17:00 AM 11 COMMENTS AND 0 REACTIONS

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/

Jan Klimkowski
05-09-2011, 05:06 PM
Whatever the "raid" was, it appears that a Blackhawk helicopter modified with Stealth (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/05/osama-bin-laden-stealth-helicopters) technology was used, and - highly embarrassingly for the US military - crashed or was shot down.


Osama bin Laden death: photos suggest use of 'stealth' helicopters

Blackhawk wreckage reveals previously unseen modifications, seemingly to reduce radar visibility and muffle noise

It is yet another question over the operation that killed Osama bin Laden: did the US Navy Seal team sneak up to his compound using previously top-secret "stealth" helicopters?

A number of military analysts believe photographs of the wreckage of one of the two Blackhawk helicopters used in the raid, which the Seals blew up after it was damaged, show hitherto unknown modifications to the aircraft, seemingly to reduce its radar visibility and muffle noise.

One former US special operations air expert told the Army Times that the distinctive hard-angled shape of the destroyed Blackhawk resembled the fuselage of the F-117 Stealth Fighter, which is designed to deflect radar. "It really didn't look like a traditional Black Hawk," he told the US forces' newspaper.

The US did not warn Pakistan about the raid for fear of leaks, but the helicopters nonetheless managed to fly to the compound from their base in Afghanistan without Pakistan's military seemingly being alerted.

Other photos appeared to show a circular cover over the helicopter's tail rotor, which experts said could be intended to dampen noise, making it harder for people on the ground to anticipate the aircraft's arrival. Some of those living near the compound said they did not hear the helicopters until they were almost directly overhead.

The military team that killed the al-Qaida leader arrived in two helicopters described officially only as Blackhawks, the Sikorsky-made US military's workhorse helicopter for the past 30 years. One was damaged as it landed heavily at Bin Laden's compound, reportedly after its rotor clipped a wall, and the Seals destroyed it with explosives before departing in the other helicopter.

Stealth aircraft canopies are covered in a radar-deflecting coating and it was "very plausible" that this could have made the Blackhawks harder to fly at night, perhaps causing the crash, the ex-special operations expert told the Army Times.

The US military has previously experimented with stealth helicopters, notably an adapted version of the Comanche reconnaissance aircraft. However none have previously been seen on active service. The Pentagon has refused to comment on questions about the Blackhawks used in the Bin Laden raid.

Dan Goure, a former Pentagon official now with the Lexington Institute thinktank, told ABC News: "This is a first. You wouldn't know that it was coming right at you. And that's what's important, because these are coming in fast and low, and if they aren't sounding like they're coming right at you, you might not even react until it's too late ... That was clearly part of the success."

Peter Lemkin
05-09-2011, 05:26 PM
Yes, I had also noted about the secret stealth helicopters, interesting, indeed!; but....more important by a light-year....if there were NO weapons in the compound [as as already been admitted that there were none on OBL], then this was really a snuff job of a FORMER asset, no longer needed.....the questions are then:

1] why now?
and
2] why no longer needed?
as well as
3] what is next to 'replace' this to contain the Sheeple in terror?

Peter Lemkin
05-09-2011, 06:12 PM
US-Pakistan relations have hit a new crisis with the outing of the US's top spy in Islamabad.

Mark Carlton, the purported CIA station chief, was named by a Pakistani newspaper and a private television news network over the weekend, the second holder of that post in less than a year to have his cover blown by the media, presumably with official consent.

The first report by ARY, a private Pakistani television channel, documented a meeting between Mr Carlton and the head of the Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency, suggesting that the information came from them.

The CIA and the ISI have refused to comment.

Some US officials suspected the move was ISI retaliation for the naming of its chief, Lieutenant General Ahmad Shuja Pasha, in a US lawsuit relating to the Mumbai terrorist attacks. Since then, Pakistan and the CIA have tussled over a CIA contractor's shooting of two armed Pakistanis under disputed circumstances.

The Islamabad station chief is one of the CIA's most critical and sensitive assignments. The position oversees the agency's covert programs, including the drone campaign that targets al-Qa'ida and Taliban leaders, as well as fighters who cross the border into Afghanistan.

The purported name of the CIA's station chief was first reported on Friday by ARY. The station was reporting on a meeting between the director of Pakistan's spy service, the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence and the station chief.

"If we did not mention the man's name, the credibility of the story would have been reduced," said ARY's Islamabad bureau chief, Sabir Shakir.

Shakir wouldn't discuss who had provided the name, but said he had "one-plus" sources.

The story was picked up by the Nation, a right-wing newspaper that has often accused American diplomats and private citizens in Pakistan of working for the CIA. The Nation's editor, Salim Bokhari, said he didn't know how the name became public.

"It has to have been released by some government agency," Bokhari said. "Who else would know such information?"

A former senior US intelligence official said any outing of agents would be Pakistan's "own little way of retaliating," given how "very, very upset and embarrassed" the government remains over the raid in Abbottabad and its aftermath. Pakistan has long been uncomfortable with the extent of CIA operations inside the country even before the bin Laden raid and revelations about a secret CIA station in Abbottabad.

Raymond Davis, a CIA agent, spent months in jail in Lahore after shooting two men, believed to be ISI officers tailing him, before Washington could secure his release. Mr Carlton's predecessor had to flee Pakistan last year after his identity was exposed in the Pakistani press. If the revelation about his identity is correct, Mr Carlton will have almost certainly already left the country, dealing a further blow to US intelligence operations there.

Jan Klimkowski
05-09-2011, 06:19 PM
Apparently, "Mark Carlton" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/09/pakistan-media-name-cia-chief) is nearly but not quite correct. Mike Carlton may be correct.

As per my post #269 (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?7004-Al-Qaeda-leader-Bin-Laden-dead/page27)above, this appears to have been retaliation for the ratcheting up of Armitage-style pressure on Pakistan by Obama and, particularly, his national security team.


Fresh tension has erupted between the CIA and Pakistani intelligence after several Pakistani media outlets published the alleged name of the CIA station chief in Islamabad.

Two senior Pakistani officials said the name published, Mark Carlton, was incorrect, but one said it was similar to the real one.

Despite the inaccuracy, publication of the name was seen as a sign of worsening relations between the two spy agencies a week after the death of Osama bin Laden in a garrison town north of Islamabad.

The CIA chief, Leon Panetta, said last week that he did not warn Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) about the raid because he feared the information could leak in advance, prompting furious ISI denials of complicity.

Publication of an American spy's name caused friction between the two agencies six months ago.

The previous station chief, Jonathan Banks, was identified in court papers and the media in December, causing him to leave Pakistan immediately. Some US officials blamed the ISI for the leak.

This time, the name was published by the private television station Ary One on Friday, then reprinted in the rightwing Nation newspaper on Saturday.

According to reports, "Mark Carlton" was given an angry reprimand by the ISI chief, General Shuja Pasha, over the operation to kill Bin Laden.

The published name sounded similar to the real one, a senior Pakistani official said, suggesting the leak had come from a lower-level ISI source rather from than the top.

"It sounds similar. Mike can be misheard as Mark," he said. "It sounds like something someone misheard in the corridor, perhaps someone who is ideological or not very well educated."

The official declined to give the real name. US media did not report the incorrect name, saying that the information remained classified under US law.

A senior ISI official said the agency did not release the name. "If you're asking, no we didn't," he said. Asked about the state of relations with the CIA, he declined to comment.

Peter Lemkin
05-09-2011, 06:30 PM
Fresh tension has erupted between the CIA and Pakistani intelligence after several Pakistani media outlets published the alleged name of the CIA station chief in Islamabad.

Two senior Pakistani officials said the name published, Mark Carlton, was incorrect, but one said it was similar to the real one.

Despite the inaccuracy, publication of the name was seen as a sign of worsening relations between the two spy agencies a week after the death of Osama bin Laden in a garrison town north of Islamabad.

The CIA chief, Leon Panetta, said last week that he did not warn Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) about the raid because he feared the information could leak in advance, prompting furious ISI denials of complicity.

Publication of an American spy's name caused friction between the two agencies six months ago.

The previous station chief, Jonathan Banks, was identified in court papers and the media in December, causing him to leave Pakistan immediately. Some US officials blamed the ISI for the leak.

This time, the name was published by the private television station Ary One on Friday, then reprinted in the rightwing Nation newspaper on Saturday.

According to reports, "Mark Carlton" was given an angry reprimand by the ISI chief, General Shuja Pasha, over the operation to kill Bin Laden.

The published name sounded similar to the real one, a senior Pakistani official said, suggesting the leak had come from a lower-level ISI source rather from than the top.

"It sounds similar. Mike can be misheard as Mark," he said. "It sounds like something someone misheard in the corridor, perhaps someone who is ideological or not very well educated."

The official declined to give the real name. US media did not report the incorrect name, saying that the information remained classified under US law.

A senior ISI official said the agency did not release the name. "If you're asking, no we didn't," he said. Asked about the state of relations with the CIA, he declined to comment.

Ed Jewett
05-09-2011, 08:51 PM
From Cryptome http://cryptome.org/:


af-03-1027-3.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI
10 May 9, 2011
af-03-1027-2.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI 9
May 9, 2011
af-03-1027.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI 8
May 9, 2011

af-03-1023-3.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI 7
May 9, 2011
af-03-1023-2.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI 6
May 9, 2011
af-03-1023.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI 5
May 9, 2011
af-03-1022.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI 4
May 9, 2011
af-03-1021.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI 3
May 9, 2011

af-03-1020-2.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI 2
May 9, 2011
af-03-1020.pdf 911 Commission Interview on OBL AQ AF PK ISI 1
May 9, 2011

Ed Jewett
05-09-2011, 09:06 PM
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/05/09/boiling-frogs-exclusive-intelligence-law-enforcement-experts-on-ever-changing-bin-laden-death-script/

Boiling Frogs Exclusive: Intelligence & Law Enforcement Experts on Ever-Changing Bin Laden Death Script
Monday, 9. May 2011

Not All Sources and Experts Are Equal- Here Are some Real Ones!

There are ‘experts’ views,’ and then there are experts’ views. There are ‘government sources,’ and then there are government sources. Not all experts are equal. And, not all sources are reliable. Am I talking in riddles? Of course not; give me a chance and I’ll explain.

We have members of the popular media (mainstream and quasi alternatives alike) ever anxious to market and disseminate government conspiracy and propaganda. They, members of the popular media, have their own rolodex of ‘experts’ and analysts, some on their payroll, to help them propagate the delivery and execution of government-given propaganda-conspiracy. The same principle applies to ‘sources.’ The popular media relies on their government sources who act as middle-men-government messengers who’ve been given a government written and approved script to be delivered; almost always anonymously. Well, this is exactly what we have been getting from our media, around the clock, since the announcement of the Bin Laden Death Operation: ever-changing government scripts, delivered mainly by anonymous government sources to the US media, and further embellished and expanded upon by government-connected experts and analysts on the payroll.

On the other hand, there are many independent real experts whose analyses and views you won’t, or rarely, get to hear or read about; at least not in the mainstream media or at quasi-alternative sites. And there are current and former government sources not tasked with messenger duties; many of whom don’t see the ‘calculated’ necessity to remain ‘anonymous.’ I can assure you, you do not, and will not, read or hear these experts’ and sources’ statements, analyses or views when it comes to government-written stories and their media buddies.

Last weekend Boiling Frogs Post contacted several independent sources and experts, and asked them for their straight-forward take on the absurdity-filled and ever-changing Bin Laden Death story. I say independent, because they are. As you’ll see these veterans and sources come from all different walks of Intelligence-Law Enforcement-Military, and as far as political orientation goes, they fall into every single category-liberal, conservative, libertarian and none. I want to thank them all for honoring the request given to them on extremely short notice, and for being honest, direct, commonsensical, and in some cases realistically humorous. Here is what they had to say, and say it briefly per my request, starting with my favorite investigative reporter and bestselling author, whom I respect tremendously and consider ‘truly independent,’ James Bamford:


I don’t know what happened, but here’s what I suspect. The White House press office was horrified. The image of an unarmed Bin Laden killed in his PJs, and his unarmed wife shot as she was trying to protect him, was too bland for prime time TV. So after consulting with the “perception managers” at The Rendon Group, they quickly called together a team of experts for a conference in the Roosevelt Room to come up with a better narrative.

Among those present was Nurse Nayirah, daughter of the former Kuwaiti ambassador to the U.S., accompanied by several PR representatives from Hill & Knowlton. It was her false claim that she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in Kuwait and leave them on the floor to die, a lie propagandized around the world by H&K, that helped push the U.S. into the first Gulf War. Sitting next to her was Ahmed Chalabi, the man whose deceptions about Saddam and his WMD, heavily promoted by the New York Times, helped lead the country to war with Iraq. Then there was Jim Wilkinson, the Bush master propagandist who needed to find a way to get the country behind the war. He thus fed the story to the media of how Pvt. Jessica Lynch fearlessly mowed down Fedayeen terrorists with her M16 until she ran out of ammo, whereupon she was shot, stabbed, captured, tortured and raped. Unfortunately, through no fault of Lynch, it was later discovered to be totally made up. Finally, there was General Stanley McCrystal, largely responsible for promoting the fact that football star and Army private Pat Tillman was killed in a heroic battle in Afghanistan when in reality he was accidentally shot by his own men. The false story was then ballyhooed by the press and used by the Army as a major recruiting tool for the Afghan War.
After a few hours going around the table for ideas, the White House press people finally had their story. With one hand wrapped around his wife as a shield, Bin Laden used the other in a desperate effort to fight off capture by firing wildly at the commandos with an AK-47, but was finally taken down with a bullet right between his eyes.

James Bamford- One of the country’s leading writers on intelligence and national security issues.


If you factor in growth in government and the actual costs of the military and intelligence effort that finally succeeded in killing Osama bin Laden after fifteen years of trying, the renowned terrorist becomes the $3 trillion dollar man.

Considering that he has not personally directed a successful terrorist operation since 9/11 that is quite impressive, somewhat like winning a lifetime achievement Oscar at the Academy Awards ceremony. And even 9/11 is by no means a slam-dunk for Osama as the Justice Department never charged him with that particular crime because they knew they did not have enough evidence to convince a jury. So his story ends, shot down in Pakistan while resisting or possibly surrendering, with his wife and son or alone, in a lavish mansion or a shack, as a result of a great spy operation or maybe not, and with the President of the United States personally directing the operation or possibly just sitting in for a photo op. Requiescat in Pace Osama.

Philip Giraldi- Former Counterterrorism Specialist & military Intelligence Officer of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency


The executive-ordered assassination of Osama bin Laden, in what is now described as a rubbish-strewn, dirt-infested and barely habitable compound, does free up a spot on the FBI’s “Most Wanted” list. As a result of this grand and newsworthy success, after an interminable decade of really, really, really hard work, the flag-draped and platinum-plated military-industrial-intelligence complex is poised for even greater rewards, in both glory and gold. Constitution-minded and economically strapped Americans, and those who oppose unnecessary undeclared wars of any kind, need to get back under the Bush-Obama bus, and quick. Here’s why: President Obama will not remind Americans that bin Laden was never “wanted” by the FBI for the 9/11 attacks, and as such, bin Laden’s death is irrelevant to Washington’s long war in Afghanistan. Likewise, former President Bush will not tell the country that the bin Laden connection to Saddam Hussein was manufactured in 2002 by neoconservatives bent on invasion, and as a result, bin Laden’s death has no bearing on Washington’s 9-year occupation and nation-building project in Iraq. Come to think of it, not having Osama around anymore is stagnation we can believe in.

Lt Col Karen Kwiatkowski- Retired U.S. Air Force lieutenant colonel and a specialist on the Middle East


Two UN guys are sitting in a bar in Kabul – and one turns to the other and says “Did you hear the one about the president, the terrorism advisor and the pope?” The second guy turns to the other and says “Well – no – I have not” – and the first guys says “Me neither – but it cannot be any more funny than the way the White House has handled the narrative of the Bin Laden raid.”

Four days after the Bin Laden raid, and in the middle of what must have been the 10th White House modification to the story, I was asked in an on-air interview “don’t you (in the Special Operations Community) have plans for dealing with the media?” – well yes, yes, we do…but this plan was not used due to the White House insinuation of their “academic smart guys and gals” – so the plan was not followed – because the raid became a White House center piece that was quickly (and badly) absorbed for purposes of supporting the President’s reelection.

National security – and what is best and necessary for the nation – should NOT be an issue that is used by either side for political gain…the harsh reality is that it often is. As I have said many time: “I am not anti-war, I am anti-stupidity…” we have sycophants in the White House who will do or say anything to get the President re-elected and sacrifice the truth, and the nation’s best interests, in the process as they drive the clown car of freedom around the nation for a victory lap…

Lt Col Tony Shaffer- Intelligence Officer & recipient of the Bronze Star, with 25 years of field experience commanding and directing several key operational intelligence organizations


The “fog of war” excuse for the Obama Administration’s horrendous series of factual errors in reporting bin Laden’s killing was mostly due to rushing to make the U.S. press deadline and take credit before being upstaged by leaks from international press. One small detail that reveals the over-arching importance placed on Obama’s need for a bold, decisive press image lies in his unqualified announcement about getting his man that was made even before the DNA testing was completed. The White House later clarified that they were 90 to 95% certain it was bin Laden based on photo comparisons and later they upped that to 95% certainty but there’s nothing scientific about “facial analysis” photo comparisons. Quite likely another reason the Administration doesn’t want the dead bin Laden photo out now is that it would invite scrutiny of the hasty announcement. I think the series of errors was mostly based on the rush to frame this quickly for the press so Obama would appear bold and strong on terrorism and get what Charley Cook projected as a 13% “bounce” in the polls.

Coleen Rowley- Retired FBI Agent and Former Chief Counsel of the FBI Minneapolis field office


So we come through the mountain passes that are being watched by tribal warlords who have our left over stinger missiles from the Soviet’s little adventure there, because if we fly too high the Pakistani defense radar network will pick us up. We don’t know who is in this compound, so we shoot-to-kill every unarmed male resident on the spot, before we even know if Bin Laden is there. And we insist Pakistan’s ISI intelligence service knew nothing of Bin Laden being in the middle of their retirement neighborhood for military generals and intelligence officials. Oh, we wanted to do it one week earlier, but our government knew that on that day the Easter Bunny would be hiding multi colored eggs for all the little Pakistani children!

Russell D. Tice- Former Intelligence Analyst for the U.S. Air Force, Office of Naval Intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency & National Security Agency

From my own 25-years experience on the inside much of it doing international covert operations, I’m pretty certain that the competing federal bureaucracies’ decades long, often bizarre war for headlines is at the root of this whole weird episode. Of course this is fueled by the ease with which mainstream media is manipulated into printing absolutely anything that comes from their “inside” usually “anonymous” sources.

With the Bin Laden hit, the media skirmish started with the scramble for “credit” by the public affairs offices of each of the parties involved a. First the Pentagon (Defense Intelligence) and White House take the lead. Then the CIA, the Criminal Inept Agency, sorely hurting from five decades of being total and abject losers and perpetually at war with DIA, grabs the whole ball and runs with it, like they invented it. This pisses off the DIA and leaks and counter-leaks begin to spring in every direction from inside sources on both sides, sniping at each other’s “story.”
But you can’t count out the FBI, the Federal Bureau of Incompetence, who has been totally and insultingly left out of the whole mix. Rumor is they even had an FBI Files episode on “How the FBI killed Bin Laden, “ready to go into production, no matter how Bin Laden died. All they needed was a body. Leaving them totally out of the kill of the dude for whom they’ve spent half their PR budget hunting, is…well…insulting to say the least. And you do NOT want to piss off the FBI. Remember Cointelpro?!

Finally. What really happened? My bet is that some Navy Seal captain in charge of the guys out there circling around Pakistan’s night skies in helicopters like sitting ducks waiting for the Washington suits to make up their minds, said, “Screw it! I’ll take responsibility. Let’s do it guys!”

Mike Levine- Retired supervisory agent, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA); also served the U.S. Customs Service, IRS (Criminal Investigations Division) & the FBI/DEA Task Force


Obama’s Idea — Whatabad!
Killing Osama in Abbottabad
Serves only to get a whole lottabad
guys planning in sync
To pay back Murder, Inc.
From Kandahar to Jalalabad.

Ray McGovern- Retired CIA Analyst, former Army Intelligence Officer & Founder of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity


A part of me is going to miss Bin Laden, at least I understood him. I certainly do not condone his methods or his twisted logic; but his actions were extremely predictable (I was one of the few people that actively tried to prevent 9-11). But I do not understand our own government. First we attack a country that had nothing to do with 9-11, we lower our moral standing in the eyes of the world, we violate our Constitution, we turn our military into the Peace Corps resulting in thousands of our own military casualties and tens of thousands of innocent civilian casualties overseas, we treat our own citizens as guilty of something until proven otherwise at airports, the list is endless. The final straw, however, is the PR campaign of the killing of BL. If ever there was a “black operation” in the traditional use of the term, this was it. Our government should have said nothing about this assassination. Oh, word would have leaked out over time and years from now we could have our day in the sun, but this isn’t the time. We celebrate this killing like it’s the winning touch-down at the Super Bowl. All this dog and pony show is a rallying cry for the same fanatics that rioted and killed over cartoons. How many more innocent lives will be lost just so our politicians can make a little splash in the news?

Bogdan Dzakovic- Special Agent, Team Leader of the Red Team (terrorist team) and Federal Air Marshals for the Federal Aviation Administration(FAA), and Former Coast Guard Officer & Federal Criminal Investigator
# # # #

Ed Jewett
05-09-2011, 10:02 PM
"... In just over one week’s time our government has admitted to 3 separate assassination attempts: Moammar Gadhafi, Osama bin Laden, and Anwar al-Awlaki. Two were unsuccessful resulting in numbers of civilian casualties including 3 young children under the age of 12, and one was clearly a staged event, the real outcome of which is hard to distinguish from the piles of official propaganda which have already been rewritten multiple times. From all that we have been able to ascertain at this point, we know that someone died in that run down slum in Pakistan… we just don’t know who died.

A government that has abandoned it’s adherence to established international norms of civilized behavior in all aspects except public opinion propaganda, is in fact an illegitimate government. We used to understand that. We need to understand that again and remember the kind of people we once were, the kind of people we will be again...."

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/i-got-my-mind-right-boss/#more-15817

Ed Jewett
05-10-2011, 01:47 AM
Osama Bin Laden and The 911 Illusion: The 9/11 Short-Selling Financial Scam
Part II

by Dean Henderson

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24687 (17:30)

Around the same time a Navy Seal team was descending upon the Abbottabad complex allegedly housing Osama bin Laden, the US Justice Department was suing Deutsche Bank. Bin Laden was a disciple of Muslim Brotherhood leader Abdullah Azzam. Abbottabad is named after British military officer Sir James Abbott. (1)

In a civil lawsuit filed last Tuesday in federal court in Manhattan, US Attorney Preet Bharara seeks damages and losses on Deutsche Bank-issued mortgages backed by US taxpayers via HUD. The world’s third largest bank is majority-owned by the Warburg dynasty that funded Hitler. (2) It also needs to answer for its role in short trades made just prior to 911.

Deutsche Bank Goes Short

Days after 911 Bush SEC Chairman Harvey Pitt, who was later forced to resign over his pathetic response to a series of corporate scandals, appeared on CNN to reveal a pattern of unusually heavy volumes of short selling of both airline and insurance stocks in the week prior to 911. Pitt vowed to track these trades down, speculating that al Qaeda may have been involved. It was the last time anyone in the Bush Administration mentioned it.

According to the Herzliyah International Policy Institute (http://www.ict.org.il/, Sept. 21, 2001) the shorting of these stocks emananated from Deutsche Bank. An article in Barons corroborates this fact. American and United Airlines and the reinsurance giants who covered the WTC – Munich RE, Swiss RE and the French Axa – were specifically targeted. On September 10th – a day before the attacks – the put/call ratios on these stocks was unprecedented. A put is a futures option that bets on a stock’s decline, while a call is a futures option that bets that the stock will go up.

On September 10, 2001 at the Chicago Board Options Exchange there were 4,516 puts on American Airlines to only 748 calls. United Airlines was targeted for 4,744 puts as opposed to 396 calls. The numbers on the reinsurance companies were similarly lopsided. By far the biggest trader of the put options was Deutsche Bank Alex Brown – the US trading arm of Deutsche Bank – which bought traditional Eight Families’ wealth repository and largest Four Horsemen shareholder Banker's Trust in 1999 to become the world’s largest bank with $882 billion in assets. (3)

In 2001 Sen. Carl Levin’s (D-MI) Banking Committee fingered Banker’s Trust as a major player in drug money laundering. On August 28th, just two weeks before 911, Deutsche Bank executive Kevin Ingram pled guilty to laundering heroin proceeds and arranging US weapons sales to parties in Pakistan and Afghanistan. A June 15, 2001 New York Post article said Osama bin Laden was the likely buyer. Ingram is a close friend of Clinton Treasury Secretary and Goldman Sachs insider Robert Rubin – most recently a board member at Citigroup. Ingram earlier worked at both Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers. (4)

To Read the entire article by Dean Henderson on createspace.com, click here:
https://www.createspace.com/3476183


Notes
[1] Wall Street Journal. 5-4-11
[2] Rule by Secrecy: The Hidden History that Connects the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons and the Great Pyramids. Jim Marrs. HarperCollins Publishers. New York. 2000.
[3] BBC World News. 1-20-02
[4] “Trading With the Enemy”. Mike Flocco. http://www.rense.com/general17/trading.htm


Dean Henderson is the author of Big Oil & Their Bankers in the Persian Gulf: Four Horsemen, Eight Families & Their Global Intelligence, Narcotics & Terror Network and The Grateful Unrich: Revolution in 50 Countries. His Left Hook blog is at www.deanhenderson.wordpress.com

Jan Klimkowski
05-10-2011, 04:26 PM
Also note the short comment from Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/deutsche-bank-put-volume-surges-greek-news)below, and its date of publication, revealing that Deutsche Bank is the most over-exposed major "European" bank.


Deutsche Bank Put Volume Surges On Greek News
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/06/2011 14:04 -0400

For those wondering which bank domino drops first if Greece files tomorrow, Sunday, in one month, or in one year, here is the market providing the answer: Deutsche Bank put volume surges to 7,353, 11 times normal.

There's an accompanying chart at the url.

One has to wonder if Deutsche Bank is a contemporary Nugan Hand, perhaps with a touch of BCCI and a splash of Citibank thrown in.

Ed Jewett
05-10-2011, 09:36 PM
Also note the short comment from Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/deutsche-bank-put-volume-surges-greek-news)below, and its date of publication, revealing that Deutsche Bank is the most over-exposed major "European" bank.


Deutsche Bank Put Volume Surges On Greek News
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 05/06/2011 14:04 -0400

For those wondering which bank domino drops first if Greece files tomorrow, Sunday, in one month, or in one year, here is the market providing the answer: Deutsche Bank put volume surges to 7,353, 11 times normal.

There's an accompanying chart at the url.

One has to wonder if Deutsche Bank is a contemporary Nugan Hand, perhaps with a touch of BCCI and a splash of Citibank thrown in.


Be patient; I now have the latest and best voice recognition software configured and operational, and just finished reading a passage on the DeutscheBank history that will confirm those thoughts.

Ed Jewett
05-10-2011, 09:38 PM
http://brianrwright.com/Griffin.pdf

9/11: Let's Get Empirical

originally published by www.globaloutlook.ca in issue #13, Annual 2009

Magda Hassan
05-11-2011, 03:47 AM
Some one tell this man to get back on script!

Klaus denounces aide's doubts on bin Laden's death



ČTK |
5 May 2011
Prague, May 4 (CTK) - Czech President Vaclav Klaus yesterday distanced himself from the statement by Petr Hajek, deputy head of his office, that Osama bin Laden's life and death were a media fiction.
Klaus said Hajek's words were unfortunate and did not voice his view.
Hajek did not consult anyone from the Presidential Office on them, Klaus said in a press release on his web page www.klaus.cz (http://www.klaus.cz/).
"I consider his statement unfortunate. The man who made it evidently did not fully think of its impact, including its fair or unfair interpretations," Klaus said.
Klaus said Hajek had not wanted to evaluate the real event, that occurred in Abbottabad, Pakistan, but tried to "challenge the media halo created around the person of Osama bin Laden and his death."
Klaus said there was the problem that Hajek's statement had prompted some speculations about his own position on the affair.
"I want to put it clear that he did not voice the president's view. This does not mean that as a president I would like to prevent a legitimate discussion with the media that may create various distorted pictures or evident media bubbles, but I consider it necessary to make the president's position clear in this specific affair," Klaus wrote.
Hajek, who is considered one of Klaus's closest aides, said bin Laden's life and death were a mere media fiction.
"It is a modern fairy-tale for adults - good and evil. Let's believe, if we want," Hajek told the server Parlamentni listy.cz on Monday.
Hajek previously said he believed that the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001, might have been organised by the U.S. secret services.
Osama bin Laden, who allegedly organised the attacks on the United States in 2001, was killed by U.S. special forces in Abbottabad, Pakistan, on Sunday.
On Tuesday, Klaus said he had received the news of the death of terrorist leader Osama bin Laden "with great relief" and said he believed his end would contribute to enhancing security in the world.http://praguemonitor.com/2011/05/05/klaus-denounces-aides-doubts-bin-ladens-death

Magda Hassan
05-11-2011, 03:51 AM
http://www.tothepointnews.com/images/stories/2011/obl_dead.jpg
Webmaster's Commentary:
Ignoring the bullet hole this guy looks very healthy for ten years of dialysis. The nose is also too narrow. But the main reason to disregard this as another likely fake is simple. This image is tainted green to make it look like a night vision image, yet the soldier at right is looking off left, apparently able to see just fine without night vision goggles. And finally, there is something missing from this image that should be there (besides night vision goggles).
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/whythisisfake.jpg
There is an illumination source to the upper right of the camera taking this image. You can see the resulting shadows on the jawline and cheek of the soldier. More to the point, there is clearly a shadow from the soldier's face extending left from his face and falling on the floor and the side of "Osama's" face. Yet there is no trace of a similar shadow from the face of "Osama" above the beard near the right eye.
And didn't the White House say "Osama" was shot above the LEFT eye?
UPDATE: An alert reader just sent in the following. If you invert the image (create a negative) there is an obvious edge artifact in the shadow cast by the soldier at the right). This looks like a compositing artifact.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/obl_dead-BW-Inverse2.jpg
UPDATE 2: Source image found! From the movie "Blackhawk Down".
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/blackhawkdown.jpg
And flipped...
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/blackhawkdownflip.jpg
http://www.tothepointnews.com/images/stories/2011/obl_dead.jpg
Came via email so I don't know the original sources for this.

Magda Hassan
05-11-2011, 04:29 AM
Whatever the "raid" was, it appears that a Blackhawk helicopter modified with Stealth (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/05/osama-bin-laden-stealth-helicopters) technology was used, and - highly embarrassingly for the US military - crashed or was shot down.


Echos of the stealth bomber shot down by the Yugoslavs with their primitve anti-aircraft defenses....:plane:

Peter Lemkin
05-11-2011, 05:42 AM
The Bin Laden Raid: Anatomy of a Sloppy Spin Job
6th May 2011

By Brent Lang & Dylan Stableford
TheWrap | May 5, 2011

The Bin Laden operation was a success. But the spin control has been a total muddle.

After intoning that the terrorist leader died in a “firefight” late Sunday, the White House has been forced to backtrack with an amended storyline that is less the stuff of myth and more the ugly truth.

“I don’t see any evidence of a deliberate plan to mislead, but they should have maintained tighter controls of the message,” Bill Schneider, CNN Senior Political Analyst, told TheWrap. “In this poisonous political atmosphere, both sides are always bound to see plots and conspiracies.”

Some pundits and journalists are amazed that the administration even took the trouble to correct the record surrounding Osama Bin Laden’s killing.

“I’m not giving them a pass, but from a coldly calculated political view I’m surprised they were willing to revise anything because I don’t think the costs were that great either way,” Marc Cooper, professor at USC Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism, told TheWrap. “It was a small field team and there wasn’t any great risk of being discredited.”

TheWrap chronicled the changing story, day by day, as facts have emerged to strip the Hollywood sheen off a story that’s become — like Bin Laden — a moving target.
Sunday, May 1, 11:30 p.m. (ET) | President Obama Addresses the Nation, in Which We Learn of a “Firefight”:

The president kept his account of the terrorist leader’s death in Abbottabad, relatively short and to the point.

However, his account of the circumstances that ultimately led to Bin Laden’s death would later draw scrutiny — particularly his use of the phrase firefight.

“No Americans were harmed,” Obama said in his address. “They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama Bin Laden and took custody of his body.”
Monday, May 2, 2:00 p.m. (ET) | John Brennan, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, Introduces “Human Shield” Myth:

Addressing the press the day after the news broke, it is Brennan who introduces the idea that Bin Laden had used a woman living in the compound as a “human shield” — an account that has been subsequently been disproved.

“Thinking about that from a visual perspective, here is Bin Laden, who has been calling for these attacks, living in this million dollar-plus compound, living in an area that is far removed from the front, hiding behind women who were put in front of him as a shield,” Brennan said.

The top aide goes on to insist that the Navy SEALs conducting the operation were not tasked with killing Bin Laden and would have captured him if possible. But Brennan maintains the president’s line that Bin Laden’s death happened as the result of a firefight.

“The concern was that Bin Laden would oppose any type of capture operation,” Brennan said. “Indeed, he did. It was a firefight.”



Watch the full episode. See more PBS NewsHour.
Tuesday, May 3, 1:57 p.m. (ET) | White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, “Bin Laden Was Unarmed, But Dangerous”:

It is Carney who first acknowledges some holes in the administration’s initial accounts of Bin Laden’s killing. Though the press secretary maintains that the Al Qaeda head resisted capture, he acknowledges that he was unarmed at the time he was shot.

On the first floor of Bin Laden’s building, two Al Qaeda couriers were killed, along with a woman who was killed in crossfire.

“I think resistance does not require a firearm,” Carney said. “We expected a great deal of resistance and were met with a great deal of resistance. There were many other people who were armed in the compound. There was a firefight. It was a highly volatile firefight … He resisted.”
Tuesday, May 3, 7:00 p.m. (ET) | CIA director Leon Panetta Says Bin Laden May Not Have Had a Gun, But Made “Threatening Moves”:

As a guest on Jim Lehrer’s PBS show, Panetta also acknowledges Bin Laden was unarmed, but implies he was hostile with the SEALs storming the compound.

“…when they got up there, there were some threatening moves that were made that clearly represented a clear threat to our guys. And that’s the reason they fired,” Panetta told PBS’ Lehrer.
Tuesday, May 3, 8:27 p.m (ET) | Unnamed Senior Congressional Aide, Says Bin Laden Surrender Would Have Had to Take Place in the Nude:

“He would have had to have been naked for them to allow him to surrender,” the aide explained to the Los Angeles Times.
Wednesday, May 4 | U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, to the Senate Judiciary Committee, Says All It Takes for Self-Defense Is No Surrender:

In more shifting logic, Holder drops Panetta’s claims that Bin Laden was acting in a hostile manner and instead argues that the terrorist’s killing was justified simply because he did not surrender.

“It was justified as an act of national self-defense. If he had surrendered, attempted to surrender, I think we should obviously have accepted that, but there was no indication that he wanted to do that and therefore his killing was appropriate,” Holder said.

Noticeably absent in this latest moment of story juggling are any descriptions of “threatening” or “hostile” moves or attitudes on the part of the dialytic Al Qaeda head.
Wednesday, May 4 | The New York Times, Reports There Wasn’t A Whole Lotta Shooting Going On in Abbottabad:

The Times quotes administration officials who acknowledge that Navy SEALs encountered minimal resistance in their raid of the Bin Laden compound. In a further wrinkle, it turns out the only shots came at the beginning of the raid after Bin Laden’s courier fired from behind the door of a guesthouse.

http://www.thewrap.com/media/article/kill-or-capture-white-house-fights-control-bin-laden-killing-narrative-timeline-27129?page=0,0

Ed Jewett
05-11-2011, 12:11 PM
Dr. Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed on the Death of Osama Bin Laden

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkIsifrc0aM&feature=player_embedded

"Nafeez Ahmed’s understanding of the post 9/11 power game, its lies, illusions and dangers, is no less than brilliant." - John Pilger

During filming for the upcoming documentary feature 'The Crisis of Civilization' Dean Puckett asked best-selling author and international security analyst Dr. Nafeez Ahmed for his thoughts on the recent death of Osama Bin Laden.
View the Trailer: http://crisisofcivilization.com/trailer

SYNOPSIS: The Crisis of Civilization is a documentary feature film investigating how global crises like ecological disaster, financial meltdown, dwindling oil reserves, terrorism, food shortages and the militarization of society are converging symptoms of a single, failed global system.

Weaving together archival film footage and animations, film-maker Dean Puckett (The Elephant In The Room) and international security analyst Dr. Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed -- author of A User's Guide to the Crisis of Civilization: And How to Save It - take you on a surreal journey through an alarming tapestry of global systemic failure.

Offering a stunning wake-up call proving that 'another world' is not merely possible, but on its way, they warn that the inability to recognize the interconnections between different crises is preventing us, as a civilization, from saving ourselves.


http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-09/dr-nafeez-mosaddeq-ahmed-death-osama-bin-laden

Ed Jewett
05-11-2011, 12:25 PM
Came via email so I don't know the original sources for this.

See www.whatreallyhappened.com for May 09, 2011 at 15:22

Helen Reyes
05-11-2011, 02:04 PM
Whatever the "raid" was, it appears that a Blackhawk helicopter modified with Stealth (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/05/osama-bin-laden-stealth-helicopters) technology was used, and - highly embarrassingly for the US military - crashed or was shot down.


It could also be a large drone. Here's a scenario:

Drone sent to Akbar Khan "compound" shot down by nearby Pakistani military antiaircraft. US responds with SEAL or whatever team, assassinates the tenant and several of his sons, White House sticks to original story bin Laden was there, Pakistani forces arrive on scene as US team escapes, arrest unkilled residents. CIA loyalists in ISI take charge of custody and claim the detained family members are bin Ladens. US dumps body after realizing it can't be anybody of importance and to cover up multiple war crimes. White House staff cruise 4chan archives for dead bin Laden photoshops, then give them to senators and trusted press. 4channers chafe at the non-attribution while laughing at the coup, they and others cruise images.google.com and other graphic search engines and easily prove fakes are fake. White House changes story multiple times, denies releasing 4chan photoshops and then says no photos will be released. Then WH backtracks and releases video of Akbar Khan watching something on television plus a few shelved bin Laden videos produced for political effects in the past by CIA subcontractors but never used. With no evidence to support any of their claims, CIA and WH station chief Obama-Soetoro make the appeal to authority, "we wouldn't lie," and say anyone who disagrees is mentally ill.

Under this scenario the REAL corpse of bin Laden, deceased ca. 2001, remains on ice or was never recovered.

Peter Lemkin
05-11-2011, 03:44 PM
Whatever the "raid" was, it appears that a Blackhawk helicopter modified with Stealth (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/05/osama-bin-laden-stealth-helicopters) technology was used, and - highly embarrassingly for the US military - crashed or was shot down.


It could also be a large drone. Here's a scenario:

Drone sent to Akbar Khan "compound" shot down by nearby Pakistani military antiaircraft. US responds with SEAL or whatever team, assassinates the tenant and several of his sons, White House sticks to original story bin Laden was there, Pakistani forces arrive on scene as US team escapes, arrest unkilled residents. CIA loyalists in ISI take charge of custody and claim the detained family members are bin Ladens. US dumps body after realizing it can't be anybody of importance and to cover up multiple war crimes. White House staff cruise 4chan archives for dead bin Laden photoshops, then give them to senators and trusted press. 4channers chafe at the non-attribution while laughing at the coup, they and others cruise images.google.com and other graphic search engines and easily prove fakes are fake. White House changes story multiple times, denies releasing 4chan photoshops and then says no photos will be released. Then WH backtracks and releases video of Akbar Khan watching something on television plus a few shelved bin Laden videos produced for political effects in the past by CIA subcontractors but never used. With no evidence to support any of their claims, CIA and WH station chief Obama-Soetoro make the appeal to authority, "we wouldn't lie," and say anyone who disagrees is mentally ill.

Under this scenario the REAL corpse of bin Laden, deceased ca. 2001, remains on ice or was never recovered.

Jan, all others, IF [BIG IF!] the photos of the 'helicopter' rear stabilizer are real, it was definitely helicopter, not normal Preditor drone....several at Janes and other such have given interviews on the 'exciting new unknown stealth helicopter technology' - and I have no reason to question their genuine interest and insights. It appears [at this time, IMHO] to have been a secret stealth helicopter that for reasons unknown crashed, was unable to exit and so was destroyed. We saw the tail end - the rest was either destroyed or behind visual barriers by the Pakistanis. I'm not an expert on helicopters, but did listen to a man for 30 minutes who was speaking on this tail section. He said it was 'unknown', unregistered, shorter rotors than normal [reduced noise] and had a cowling covering the rotors [damping the sound] - all stealth technology. It seems the whole helicopter was also covered with some substances and had shapes that make it [them] less visible to radar...[the Pakistanis did NOT notice them on the radar, apparently!]. :mexican: Similar landing in your back yard soon!...:spy: :pinkelephant: It is certainly possible a stealth helicopter could be remote controlled, with no humans - so a drone of sorts....and all the rest of your scenario are as likely as the one their telling in D.C.,,,and which keeps changing!

Albert Doyle
05-11-2011, 03:47 PM
Discovery Channel is now showing a program on the raid on a computer graphic basis like a video game. This is all part of CIA taking-over of American airwaves and using subtle psychological programming to reduce the expectation of Americans to an assassination raid paradigm. I'm forced to say this is the Israeli standard that has been imported to America by their CIA partners. America now specializes in murdering unarmed victims with military death squads.

Charles Drago
05-11-2011, 04:17 PM
99% correct.

Ed Jewett
05-11-2011, 05:36 PM
Discovery Channel is now showing a program on the raid on a computer graphic basis like a video game. This is all part of CIA taking-over of American airwaves and using subtle psychological programming to reduce the expectation of Americans to an assassination raid paradigm. I'm forced to say this is the Israeli standard that has been imported to America by their CIA partners. America now specializes in murdering unarmed victims with military death squads.

As simply dazzling as cow manure.

How very appropriate it is, given its cousins:


American boys sitting 'underground' in the US with joysticks in their laps (no, really, the ones that connect to XBox, not the teledildonics versions) which they use to pilot Predator drones, and

American military folk having been trained to such an extent on simulators (since before Desert Storm, i.e., the late 80's) that there is now a 24/7/365 network (called in its inception DARWARS by its developers) of simulation warfare games that range from the global strategic down to the logistics and platoon-level maneuvering,

the civilian "shooter" games that appear in the mass market and sometimes as grand displays in recruitment malls and which have been the subject of many an article,

the use of "alternate reality games",

the recreation of the Dealey Plaza shoot on ABC-TV with simulation,

the creation of 9/11 attack simulations [http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/ ] at Purdue's SEAS labs. [See also http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2007/06/purdue-simulation-full-of-hot-air.html ],

the mesmerization and appeal to the subconscious that is alpha-wave-induction of television as discussed by the late Jack True and Jon Rappoport recently at http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2011/05/07/elite-global-control/.


"The true value of serious simulation games and the range of other digital learning tools can best be judged by the extent to which they bring people to a higher level of dialogue, discovery, research, learning and collaboration after the game or learning encounter has ended."

That's the first sentence in the conclusion of a paper [found here http://www.iaem.com/documents/SimsandVCOPs1.pdf and cited in at least two locations] written several years ago on simulations and virtual communities of practice by a fellow who lives close at hand. :wavey:

Jan Klimkowski
05-11-2011, 07:22 PM
Hmmm - this article, via informationclearinghouse (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28032.htm), claims to be quoting a BBC report, the original of which seems to have disappeared.

So, I offer it without being able to vouch for its authenticity:


Adding further support to the notion that Pakistan was in on the mission, a number of local residents have confirmed to the BBC that they were visited by Pakistani army personnel two hours before the attack commenced, ordering them to switch off the lights inside and outside their homes and instructing them to stay indoors until they were informed it was safe to come out.

The report goes on to add-


Gen. David Petraeus paid an extraordinary visit to Islamabad on April 25,” said a senior military official said. The official said Petraeus held a one-on-one meeting with Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan’s army chief of staff, in which they discussed the details of the operation.

The next day, Pakistan’s top military body — the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee — held its quarterly session, which was attended by Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the country’s intelligence chief, who is not a regular member of the body. Pasha had visited the United States to meet with the head of the Central Intelligence Agency, Leon Panetta, on April 11.”

General Petraeus, who is preparing to take over as CIA Director, has yet to confirm or deny the report.

Jan Klimkowski
05-11-2011, 07:57 PM
Coincidences - you have to love their resonant power....

Umar Patek, notorious "Al-Qaeda bomber", was arrested by Pakistan's ISI on January 25, 2011....

in...

wait for it.....

Abbottabad.

But the Americans deny Patek was in Abbottabad to meet Osama Bin Laden.


JAKARTA, Indonesia -- Officials here say a top Indonesian terror suspect arrested this year in the town where Osama bin Laden was killed this week was intending to meet the al-Qaida chief, although a senior American counterterrorism official said the two never met and Umar Patek's arrest in Abbottabad "appears to have been pure coincidence."

Indonesian and Pakistani intelligence officers said the arrest of Patek on Jan. 25 in Abbottabad by Pakistani officers did not lead to the American raid on bin Laden on Monday, but his arrest there may raise questions over how isolated bin Laden was in his final months.

Patek is wanted for his role in the 2002 Bali bombings and trained with al-Qaida in Pakistan before the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the United States. He is a key Southeast Asian militant and was one of the last on the run believed to have contacts with al-Qaida's central command.

"The information we have is that Umar Patek ... was in Pakistan with his Filipino wife trying to meet Osama Bin Laden," Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro told reporters Wednesday.

Chairul Akbar, an official at Indonesia's Anti-Terrorism Agency, earlier told the Associated Press that Patek and his wife traveled to Pakistan using false names – Anis Alawi Jaafar and Fatima Zahra – on August 30, 2010, aiming to meet Osama Bin Laden to get his "support and protection."

"He was instructed to go to Abbottabad to meet other militants," Akbar said.

Akbar said it was possible that Patek met al-Qaida leaders in January somewhere in Pakistan but that he did not meet with bin Laden himself.

"We have no indications whatsoever that Patek met with Bin Laden in Abbottabad," the American official told The Associated Press. The official spoke anonymously to discuss sensitive intelligence matters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/umar-patek-indonesian-terrorist-osama-bin-laden_n_857548.html

But but but the Official Narrative suggests that Pakistan's ISI was sheltering Osama in a safe house in Abbottabad. So why did this same (treacherous and untrustworthy according to MSM) ISI arrest an "Al-Qaeda terrorist" in Abbottabad a few weeks earlier?

:bolt:

Ed Jewett
05-11-2011, 10:22 PM
Hmmm - this article, via informationclearinghouse (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28032.htm), claims to be quoting a BBC report, the original of which seems to have disappeared.

So, I offer it without being able to vouch for its authenticity:


Adding further support to the notion that Pakistan was in on the mission, a number of local residents have confirmed to the BBC that they were visited by Pakistani army personnel two hours before the attack commenced, ordering them to switch off the lights inside and outside their homes and instructing them to stay indoors until they were informed it was safe to come out.

The report goes on to add-


Gen. David Petraeus paid an extraordinary visit to Islamabad on April 25,” said a senior military official said. The official said Petraeus held a one-on-one meeting with Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan’s army chief of staff, in which they discussed the details of the operation.

The next day, Pakistan’s top military body — the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee — held its quarterly session, which was attended by Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the country’s intelligence chief, who is not a regular member of the body. Pasha had visited the United States to meet with the head of the Central Intelligence Agency, Leon Panetta, on April 11.”

General Petraeus, who is preparing to take over as CIA Director, has yet to confirm or deny the report.

Taking the first phrase of your quote -- "Adding further support to the notion that Pakistan was in on the mission, a number of local residents have confirmed to the BBC..." and putting it into the Google search engine shows that the reports are mirrored a number of places, including Information Clearing House, and seems to have been originated in Pakistan. As both Pakistan and the US are engaged in propagandistic posturing and are "armored" on the basis of all that has gone down there, that doesn't help pinpoint the veracity of anything. I did, however, see Felicity Arbuthnot's piece at GlobalResearch which notes that Obama was left-handed. But politically it's an ambidextrous situation.

Carsten Wiethoff
05-12-2011, 06:02 AM
The original article seems to be from GlobalPost, dated May 5:
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/pakistan/110505/pakistan-army-osama-bin-laden-dead


ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Pakistani officials have told GlobalPost that the Pakistani army had full knowledge of the U.S. raid that led to the death of Osama bin Laden and that it played a larger role in the operation than previously acknowledged.
The statements run counter to the public position taken by officials in both Pakistan and the United States who have so far downplayed the role Pakistan’s military and intelligence community had in the attack, saying that it was limited to a small amount of information sharing.
One senior military official, who asked not to be named because he is not permitted to speak to the press, said that Pakistani army troops were in fact providing backup support when the United States began its operations inside the compound where bin Laden had been staying, including sealing off the neighborhood where the compound was located.
Officials interviewed scoffed at the idea that Pakistan could have been unaware of the American operation.
“It’s a no-fly zone,” said a Pakistani intelligence official, referring to the area around bin Laden’s mansion and the nearby military compound. “It is impossible for U.S. helicopters to fly over there without our knowledge and permission.”
A Pakistan Air Force official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, rejected reports that U.S. special forces had jammed Pakistan’s radar system in order to circumvent the no-fly zone.
“This is totally untrue. Neither our radars were jammed nor was any scrambling of any air force plane recorded,” the official said, referring to the practice of launching aircraft in the event that the airspace has been breached. Some observers said the helicopters may have been equipped with stealth technology (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/war/military/110505/osama-bin-laden-stealth-black-hawk-helicopter-navy-seal-video), but that has not been confirmed.
Residents in the area confirmed that the Pakistan army appeared to have at least some knowledge of the operation well before it began. Several residents said that two hours before the United States launched its attack, Pakistani army personnel ordered them to switch off their lights inside and outside their homes and remain indoors until further notice.
“The army personnel cordoned off the entire area long before we heard the sounds of helicopters hovering over the area,” said Zulfikar Ahmed, who lives in the Abbottabad neighborhood of Bilal Town, where bin Laden’s compound is located. Locals interviewed by the BBC and several other local and international media outlets made similar statements (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13268517).


Several meetings leading up to the attack, when viewed in sum, also indicate that Pakistan might have known of the operation beforehand.
“Gen. David Petraeus paid an extraordinary visit to Islamabad on April 25,” said a senior military official said. The official said Petraeus held a one-on-one meeting with Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan’s army chief of staff, in which they discussed the details of the operation.
The next day, Pakistan’s top military body — the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee — held its quarterly session, which was attended by Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the country's intelligence chief, who is not a regular member of the body. Pasha had visited the United States to meet with the head of the Central Intelligence Agency, Leon Panetta, on April 11.
Analysts in Pakistan said that the Pakistani government likely wanted to hide its role in the operation to avoid a backlash from the public, which has grown increasingly impatient with the United States and the growing presence of the Central Intelligence Agency inside their country.
But now international pressure is growing on the military to answer not only for its lack of support in the raid but also for not knowing about bin Laden’s hideout, which was located close to the Pakistan Military Academy. Some in the military — which has long been one of the more respected institutions in the country — are looking to correct the record.
U.S. President Barack Obama has sought to diffuse the tension since the raid took place, calling Pakistan an important ally and highlighting the intelligence sharing between the two countries that helped lead the United States to bin Laden’s compound.
In his speech on Sunday announcing bin Laden’s death, Obama recognized Pakistan’s cooperation.
"It’s important to note that our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding," the president said.
When contacted by GlobalPost about this latest information, the White House press office said all details about the operation have already been released.
White House spokesman Jay Carney on Wednesday said the United States’ relationship with Pakistan was “complicated,” but that it was important to maintain (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/04/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-542011).
“The fight is not done, and we look forward to cooperating with Pakistan in the future,” he said at a White House press briefing. “As others have said, more terrorists have been killed on Pakistani soil than probably any other country. And the cooperation we’ve received from Pakistan has been very useful in that regard.”
The European Union on Thursday also came to the defense of Pakistan, calling the country an “important partner,” echoing similar statements from officials at NATO that were made on Wednesday.
Experts and analysts here in Islamabad said that the Pakistani government itself, which is concerned about appearing overly friendly with the United States and angering its citizens, is likely encouraging the United States to downplay Pakistan’s involvement in finding bin Laden and the eventual operation against him.
In fact, analysts said, the Pakistani government has long been trying to compose a storyline that it is actively working against the United States — an effort that is aimed at keeping the country’s population from rising up against the political leadership. Pakistanis have grown tired of U.S. involvement in its affairs in the last decade and ongoing drone attacks in its northern tribal belt that have killed numerous civilians.
Pakistani Foreign Minister Salman Bashir, for example, told reporters Thursday that the Pakistani military first learned about the operation when a U.S. helicopter crashed at the start of the attack.
“Pakistan’s civilian and military leadership does not want to be the center of hatred, not only within Pakistan … but also in the Arab world,” where it believes elements of the population still support bin Laden, said Najam Sethi, a political analyst in Pakistan.
But many here said this strategy could, in the end, hurt the country by making it appear more culpable than it actually is — a reality that is already beginning to take shape as the American media, and some members of Congress, asks why Pakistan hasn’t been more helpful.
In the wake of all of the criticism, some here are now calling on Pakistan’s leaders to be more forthcoming about their cooperation with the United States, especially in regard to Sunday’s raid.
“If Pakistan or U.S. officials do not publicize the cooperation between the two sides in the operation against bin Laden, Pakistan will be in serious trouble on the diplomatic front,” Sethi said.
Salim Safi, a security analyst based in Peshawar, said it seemed clear that there had been a significant amount of cooperation between the two sides — a reality that should be made public, even if Pakistani officials think it might hurt them politically in the short-term.
“The Pakistani government and the military establishment must not hide the facts from their own people,” he said. “They must come forward with the truth.”

Carsten Wiethoff
05-12-2011, 06:08 AM
From http://www.centcom.mil/news/petraeus-visits-pakistan

By US Embassy - Pakistan
http://www.centcom.mil/images/stories/100227cadets.jpg
Gen. Petraeus shakes hands with officer training instructors at the Pakistani Military Academy, Feb 24 (2010), in Kakul near Abbottabad in the Northwest Frontier of Province, Pakistan.


Did he say Hi to Bin Laden, barely 500m away? :shutup:

Carsten Wiethoff
05-12-2011, 01:31 PM
From http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/05/11/secret_blackhawk_helicopter_pakistan_hints_it_may_ let_china_look.html

Pakistani officials are hinting that they may let China take a look at the wreckage of the top-secret U.S. helicopter left behind after the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden.


An unidentified Pakistani official told ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-raid-pakistan-hints-china-peak/story?id=13570573&page=1) Tuesday that the Chinese were “very interested” in taking a look at the remains. A second unidentified official went one step further, telling the network, “We might let them [the Chinese] take a look.”


The comments are the latest move in an ongoing game of political chess being played by the United States and Pakistan, one that is occurring to varying public degrees as officials from both nations use multiple channels to influence public perception both at home and abroad.



Maybe they should auction the part on ebay, they could make some serious money from that...

Peter Lemkin
05-12-2011, 07:11 PM
JUAN GONZALEZ: We’re joined now by the Spanish judge Baltasar Garzón, perhaps one of the world’s most famous judges. Citing the doctrine of universal jurisdiction, Garzón has used the Spanish courts to investigate cases of torture, war crimes and other offenses around the world.

In 1998, he ordered the arrest of former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet, a move that had led to Pinochet’s arrest and detention in Britain for 18 months.

In 2003, Garzón indicted Osama bin Laden and dozens of other members of al-Qaeda. The indictment led to Europe’s biggest trial of alleged al-Qaeda operatives. Eighteen were eventually found guilty.

Garzón also led the case against Argentine ex-naval officer Adolfo Scilingo for crimes committed during Argentina’s Dirty War. Scilingo is now serving a 640-year sentence.

Garzón attempted to indict six high-ranking members of the Bush administration, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, for their role in authorizing torture at Guantánamo and overseas. The case was eventually dropped. We now know, thanks to WikiLeaks, that the Bush administration privately pressured the Spanish government to drop the prosecution.

AMY GOODMAN: While Judge Garzón has long been one of the world’s most feared judges, he is now facing his own legal battle. Thirteen months ago, he was indicted for exceeding his authority for launching an investigation into the disappearance of more than 100,000 Spanish civilians at the hands of supporters of General Francisco Franco during the Spanish Civil War. Garzón was suspended as a judge in May 2010 and is facing three separate trials.

The attack on Garzón has been widely criticized by human rights defenders. Lotte Leicht of Human Rights Watch said, quote, "Garzón sought justice for victims of human rights abuses abroad and now he’s being punished for trying to do the same at home. The decision leaves Spain and Europe open to the charge of double standard."

Judge Baltasar Garzón is here in New York this week to receive the first Abraham Lincoln Brigade Archives/Puffin Foundation Award for Human Rights Activism. He flew in from Spain last night, joins us in the studio today.

Welcome to Democracy Now!

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: Good Morning. Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: And thank you to Tony Geist for translating.

Judge Garzón, let’s start with the latest news: the assassination of Osama bin Laden. You have condemned this. Why?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] Any person who leads a terrorist organization like al-Qaeda is obviously a target. Under the rule of law, justice should be sought by legal means. According to the information we have, he could well have been arrested and brought to trial for his crimes.

AMY GOODMAN: Yet he was assassinated. Talk about the example you believe this sets.

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] According to international law, the murder or the assassination of bin Laden was not the appropriate solution. Clearly, from the information we have, it’s an undefined situation, given the state of conflict between the United States and al-Qaeda.

JUAN GONZALEZ: I wanted to ask you about the case, particular case, that you have been now indicted for, specifically overreaching your authority, supposedly, in terms of the investigation into the civilian deaths under the Franco regime. You prosecuted similar cases, where amnesties had been declared, in Argentina and Chile, and your government had no problem with that. But now, when you challenge the amnesty that was supposedly granted to the perpetrators of the Franco atrocities, suddenly the government has problems with your methods?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: Yeah. [translated] This is the paradox and the irony of a situation in which Spain has been a pioneer in the application of universal jurisdiction. Yet, when it actually comes to investigating the case and the facts of the case in Spain, the country denies access to the facts and puts the judge himself on trial. It is the obligation of a judge to investigate the cases and to search for truth, justice and reparation for the victims of these crimes.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And in terms of the particular powers of a judge in Spain that may differ from what we here in the United States understand as a judge’s power, that the judges in Spain have both a sort of prosecutorial as well as a judgment aspect to their responsibilities, could you explain that?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: Yes. [translated] Judges in Spain are a combination of prosecutor, investigator and judge.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you about the WikiLeaks revelations. In Spain, there’s a lot of attention, of the documents, the U.S. government cables that have come out, about U.S. interference with the judiciary in Spain. One of the WikiLeaks cables was signed by Edward Aguirre, who is the—President Bush’s ambassador to Spain, who met with you. And he was concerned about a number of issues, and the U.S. has been concerned about the case in which—you opened against six former Bush administration officials, including Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, for torture at Guantánamo. Explain this case and why it has now been dropped.

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] In Spain, opened two procedures against—in the Guantánamo case: a general case against—regarding those six people and another specific case in four cases of torture. They were each in separate courts. The case of the four specific cases of torture is in his court, and it’s gone forward, although without specific indictments against particular individuals. Under the principle of universal jurisdiction, they have requested that the United States answer whether they are following up, investigating that case, or not. And if not, we’ll take it to the next step. It’s quite clear that they’re crimes against humanity, cases of torture, and therefore the government is obliged, under universal jurisdiction, to investigate them.

AMY GOODMAN: The ambassador in the document, in the WikiLeaks cable, said you have an anti-American streak. Your response?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: No, you know, no, I don’t. Enemy against the United States, no. I think that is the justice, only justice, as the torture is a universal crime, is necessary to investigate. Only this.

JUAN GONZALEZ: I’d like to ask you about—to go back to the case of the Franco era. The New York Times, in an editorial in support of you, said recently, "The real crime[s] in this case are the disappearances, not Mr. Garzón’s investigation. If, as seems likely, these were crimes against humanity under international law, Spain’s 1977 amnesty could not legally absolve them." Interestingly, the charges were brought against you initially by right-wing, pro-Franco groups in the country. So, in essence, some claim that the only one to be prosecuted for the crimes of the Franco era are the judge that has tried to investigate the cases. Could you—for Americans who are not familiar with what happened during the Franco era, could you talk a little bit about that?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] The paradox again is that the government refuses to investigate the crimes against humanity and at the same time is prosecuting the judge who wants to uncover them. There were between 150,000 and 200,000 people disappeared under the Franco regime, as part of the civil population. It’s still not known where the victims lie buried. It’s a permanent crime, and therefore it cannot be absolved by an amnesty law.

AMY GOODMAN: Judge Baltasar Garzón, you have called for the exhumation of 19 unmarked graves, among them the one believed to contain the remains of the great poet, Federico García Lorca. Why?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] He ordered specifically the opening, the exhumation of Lorca’s grave, because it was requested by the families of the other people who apparently are buried with him. And the request was made specifically to the judge of Granada, the area where the burial is.

AMY GOODMAN: And what do you hope to find?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] So, the process is paralyzed right now because the judge of the location where Lorca is buried is one of those who objected and brought the case against Garzón. And the Supreme Court has suspended his decision to exhume the grave.

AMY GOODMAN: So, we’re going to go to break, but when we come back, we want to talk to Judge Baltasar Garzón about what this means that he now has been indicted, he has been suspended, he can’t practice law right now in Spain, what it means for all of these cases. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. Back in a minute.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: Víctor Jara. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. Víctor Jara, the great Chilean singer who was killed when the Augusto Pinochet forces rose to power and Allended died in the palace, September 11th, another September 11th, remarkably enough, 1973, who died among so many thousands of Chileans. It’s our guest today, Judge Baltasar Garzón, who first held Augusto Pinochet accountable, after his 17 years of brutal rule in Chile. When Augusto Pinochet went to Britain in the late '90s for a doctor's appointment, Judge Baltasar Garzón, from Spain, had him indicted. And it was because of that indictment that Augusto Pinochet was held in Britain for a year, until eventually allowed to go home.

Now Baltasar Garzón, Judge Garzón, faces his own trial, as he has been taken off the bench after crusading on many different issues, including the indictment of Osama bin Laden and other al-Qaeda operatives in 2003.

I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan Gonzalez.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, Judge Garzón, I’d like to ask you about another case that you were involved with, which was the investigation of the "dirty war" that occurred against Basque separatists under a Socialist government, the government of Felipe Gonzalez, in Spain. And you—many say that you were responsible for the fall of that government as a result of what you uncovered. Could you talk about what you found? And interestingly now, Felipe Gonzalez is supporting you and saying that what is happening to you is unjust.

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] I would never be responsible for an electoral loss that is due to the citizens who voted. What I did was simply investigate accusations of persecution against people accused of terrorism. The state of law is equal for all people. It cannot depend on electoral politics. A number of highly placed officials in the Socialist party, ruling party, government were accused and found guilty and removed. I believe that the democracy and the rule of law was strengthened by this action.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go back to Chile. The family of the former Chilean president, Salvador Allende, asked last month for his body to be exhumed to help determine the cause of his 1973 death. President Allende was overthrown in a U.S.-backed coup, September 11th, 1973. The official cause of death on that day in the palace was listed as suicide, but it’s long been speculated he was assassinated by the forces of General Augusto Pinochet. Allende’s daughter, Isabel Allende, spoke to the media.

ISABEL ALLENDE: [translated] We requested the exhumation and autopsy. I think it’s the most rigorous and definitive proof to clear up the causes of his death, and we think this is going to be tremendously important.

AMY GOODMAN: That was the daughter of Salvador Allende, Isabel Allende, not to be confused with the great writer who is his niece. What do you say about the calling for the exhumation and the investigation of whether this was assassination or whether he took his own life as the Augusto Pinochet forces moved into the palace?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] In the first instance, they investigated the criminal actions of those who rose up against a democratically elected government. The actual cause of death is less important than recognizing the fact that this was an illegal action, a coup against a legally elected government. And for those crimes, Pinochet was investigated and indicted in London.

AMY GOODMAN: So where do you stand right now, Judge Garzón? You’ve been suspended. You face trial. You face prison for many years.

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: I am provisionally suspended in my function, jurisdictional function. But I hope the trial against me, that we will, in the next month, I think—but it’s very complicated for me, my actual situation, because I cannot to investigate, to work in Spain. But I work right now in La Haya, in the International Criminal Court, with the prosecutor. But it’s not my destination. I hope the resolution, it will be proximally.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Some of your—you have many people who are passionately supporters of yours, as well as very strong critics, including among your colleagues on the bench. Several major judges in Spain have accused you of basically being a media personality trying to grab attention and really overstepping your responsibilities as a judge. How do you answer those in the judicial community who have criticized you in the past?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] What’s most important are the cases in which I have participated. Any judge who had done what I did would be well known. That’s not, in principle, a bad thing. What’s wrong is to impede those investigations and that the victims should not be aided. It’s true that my personality gives an additional passion to it. But that should be appropriate for any judge. All I’ve done is my job, and I intend to continue doing it. And I’m not especially worried about the criticism that comes from the bench.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And even if you’re absolved of the charges, do you think you will be able to continue to function as a judge in Spain?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] It’s possible that I could continue, but right now I’m involved in a very interesting project in Colombia. For a certain amount of time, I’m going to be working with the OAS in Colombia on furthering the peace process and mediating, to work on a means of transitional justice.

JUAN GONZALEZ: In terms of having—achieving a peace between the FARC and the government?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] To be able to mobilize and put into practice the law which came after the demobilization, so cases can go to trial and victims can receive justice.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to, as we wrap up, talk again about universal jurisdiction, what this means, using the Spanish courts to hold tyrants accountable, wherever they may be. The Spanish government is now curtailing this, saying they don’t want to use universal jurisdiction. You have been a crusader for this. Lawyers around the world have looked at what you’re doing, seeing if it’s possible in their own countries. Yet your own government is cracking down on this. Will you be able, if you are cleared of all the charges and can go back to work, to continue to hold international torturers, tyrants, accountable?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] Yes, indeed. Not just me, but any judge should be able to and will be able to do so. No government in the world is easy with the application of the principle of universal jurisdiction. It’s a mistake. I believe it’s a mistake, because the principle of universal jurisdiction allows the fight against impunity to move forward. It’s the final scenario when the country itself is not willing to investigate these crimes, any government.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Were you surprised by some of the WikiLeaks revelations that indicated an extraordinary degree of pressure by the United States government on the judiciary and the government of Spain on cases affecting the United States?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] Yes, it did surprise me. Those who are susceptible to being pressured will be pressured. And if not, the pressure is meaningless. In this case, the justice system in Spain, specifically in regard to Guantánamo, steadfast, stood fast.

AMY GOODMAN: We have just 10 seconds. Short answer. Your assessment of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

JUDGE BALTASAR GARZÓN: [translated] The war in Iraq was an unjust and illegal war. And the war in Afghanistan, which has been conducted properly until now, there are many other things that still need to be revealed.

AMY GOODMAN: Judge Baltasar Garzón, thank you so much for being with us.

Ed Jewett
05-12-2011, 08:00 PM
"Gen. Petraeus shakes hands with officer training instructors at the Pakistani Military Academy, Feb 24 (2010), in Kakul near Abbottabad in the Northwest Frontier of Province, Pakistan."

Oh, a nasty and great find, Carsten...:thumbsup:

Ed Jewett
05-13-2011, 03:06 AM
The Politics of Celebrating Assassination

A Strange Society
by Arturo Balderas / May 12th, 2011

The outbursts of jubilation in the U.S. prompted by the death of Osama Bin Laden present a worthy topic of study for sociologists and psychologists alike. Thousands of people celebrated their newfound ‘freedom’ from the specter of Bin Laden roaming unchecked, planning and perpetrating new terrorist attacks. On the surface it appears to have been a natural expression of relief, though it seems a bit strange to celebrate the death of someone with such excitement. As the mother of a man who perished in the attack on the twin towers put it, “the death of Bin Laden doesn’t change the fact that my son is dead—there is nothing to celebrate.”

Perhaps the most puzzling aspect of this situation has been its effect on Americans’ perception of President Obama. As indicated by recent opinion polls, the battered image of Obama received a shot in the arm from his delivery of ‘revenge’ for which Americans had waited nearly a decade. For many of those polled, Obama finally deserves the title ‘Commander in Chief’. It’s easy enough to understand this newfound faith in Obama as a military leader. However, one can’t help but ponder the fact that someone’s death—however odious that individual might have been—has bolstered voters’ approval of the president much more than, for example, his health care reform plan, through which over thirty million people will gain access to much needed medical services.

Even if the planning and execution of the operation against Bin Laden represents a resounding military success, wouldn’t it be more sensible to base the popularity of the president, or of anyone for that matter, on actions that they take to promote life rather than death? Unfortunately, within many sectors of society the equation of ‘life’ with the ‘survival of the fittest’ persists with as much force as ever. Hollywood overwhelms us with images of superheroes singlehandedly saving the world and of ‘self-made’ men accumulating fabulous riches through their individual ‘effort and genius’. The problem with this messianic vision of heroic individualism is that it minimizes or wholly passes over the fact that, more often than not, it’s the day-to-day acts of unheralded generosity and solidarity that fundamentally change the lives of human beings for the better.

I hope that the thousands of young women and men who gathered to celebrate the death of Bin Laden can somehow find the motivation to demonstrate in support of the solidarity that we owe ourselves as living beings. It would be marvelous if we were able, along with these thousands of young men and women, to rescue some semblance of the respect for life that we’ve left behind.

Translated by Sean Dinces. This op-ed originally appeared in La Jornada on 9 May 2011.
Arturo Balderas is a writer who can be contacted at: aprenderamor@hotmail.com. Read other articles by Arturo.
This article was posted on Thursday, May 12th, 2011 at 8:00am and is filed under Assassinations, Culture.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/05/the-politics-of-celebrating-assassination/

Magda Hassan
05-13-2011, 04:10 AM
And so it begins....

68 killed in explosions at Pakistan military site

It's the deadliest attack in the country since the U.S. strike on Bin Laden's compound.



From the Associated Press May 12, 2011, 8:39 p.m.

PESHAWAR, Pakistan—
Two explosions struck a paramilitary training center in northwestern Pakistan (http://www.latimes.com/topic/intl/pakistan-PLGEO00000020.topic) on Friday, killing at least 68 people -- nearly all recruits -- in the bloodiest attack in the country since a U.S. raid killed Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden (http://www.latimes.com/topic/unrest-conflicts-war/terrorism/osama-bin-laden-PECLB20372037.topic).

A suicide bomber detonated at least one of the blasts in the Shabqadar area of Charsadda district, police said.

Dozens of people also were wounded when the explosions went off at a main gate of the Frontier Constabulary training site, police official Nisar Khan said.

Many recruits were boarding vehicles to go home for a short break at the end of a recent training session.

No group immediately claimed responsibility. But militants have pledged to avenge bin Laden's May 2 killing, and many have been expecting reprisal strikes on Pakistani territory.

The Sept. 11 mastermind and at least four others were killed by U.S. Navy (http://www.latimes.com/topic/unrest-conflicts-war/defense/u.s.-navy-ORGOV0000126141144.topic) SEALs who raided bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad (http://www.latimes.com/topic/intl/pakistan/abbottabad-%28pakistan%29-PLGEO10010060211365.topic), Pakistan, a garrison city. Bin Laden is believed to have lived in the large house for up to six years.

Pakistani officials have denied knowing he was there but have criticized the American raid ordered by President Barack Obama (http://www.latimes.com/topic/politics/government/barack-obama-PEPLT007408.topic) as a violation of their country's sovereignty.

Pakistani leaders have also repeatedly pointed out that tens of thousands of their own citizens have died in suicide and other attacks since Sept. 11, 2001, when Islamabad became an ally of the U.S. in taking on Islamist extremists.

Many of the attacks in Pakistan have targeted security forces, including young cadets or recruits. http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fgw-pakistan-blasts-20110513,0,6662776.story

Carsten Wiethoff
05-13-2011, 11:21 AM
From http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/12/pakistan.us.bin.laden/index.html


(CNN) -- Three of Osama bin Laden's widows have been interviewed by U.S. intelligence officers under the supervision of Pakistani's intelligence service, according to sources in both governments.
The women -- who were all interviewed together this week -- were "hostile" toward the Americans, according to a senior Pakistani government official with direct knowledge of the post-bin Laden investigation and two senior U.S. officials with direct knowledge of the matter. The eldest of the three widows spoke for the group.
Members of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence were in the room along with the U.S. intelligence officers, the officials said. The Americans had wanted to question the women separately to figure out inconsistencies in their stories.
All three officials said that the interview didn't yield much new information, while adding that it was early in the investigative process.

I am surprised they talked at all. "Hostile", huh, what did they expect?

Peter Lemkin
05-13-2011, 11:42 AM
From http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/12/pakistan.us.bin.laden/index.html



All three officials said that the interview didn't yield much new information, while adding that it was early in the investigative process.

I am surprised they talked at all. "Hostile", huh, what did they expect?

"early in the investigation process....." ha ha ah.....just wait until the waterboarding etc. begins!....:hitler:

Albert Doyle
05-13-2011, 07:39 PM
I wonder if those people celebrating Bin Laden's death realize the destruction of the Constitution and new permanent torture/assassination government that has pulled-in behind it?

Steve Franklin
05-13-2011, 07:55 PM
From http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/12/pakistan.us.bin.laden/index.html



All three officials said that the interview didn't yield much new information, while adding that it was early in the investigative process.
I am surprised they talked at all. "Hostile", huh, what did they expect?

"early in the investigation process....." ha ha ah.....just wait until the waterboarding etc. begins!....:hitler:

So when did Pakistan become the 51st U.S. state? Are they going to add another star to the flag or a crescent moon?

By the way, I just looked at Google News and today's meme is that they found a huge stash of porno in Bin Laden's cave, er, palace, er, compound. Apparently they're trying to determine how much of the world they have hypnotized. I was listening to an interview with Adele Edisen on Thursday night (May 12) and I was interested in the methods Jose Rivera used to determine whether she was "under" or not. :spy:

James H. Fetzer
05-13-2011, 07:58 PM
Nice point, Albert! http://911scholars.ning.com/profiles/blogs/if-the-official-account-of-bin


I wonder if those people celebrating Bin Laden's death realize the destruction of the Constitution and new permanent torture/assassination government that has pulled-in behind it?

Jan Klimkowski
05-13-2011, 08:48 PM
I heard they also found porn lol.

:flypig::flypig::flypig:

PsyOp Central missed a trick there. They could have keyed some pornography into the TV screen in the faux video of Random Old Geezer In Profile Watches Al-Jazeera In Random Bedsit. "Mohamad Atta Parties with Strippers Prior to 9/11" would have been a fine choice....

The psyop clowns must have exhausted their own idiotic script turns and resorted to stealing material from this thread.

Today's Guardian claims:


Pornography was found in the hideout of Osama bin Laden by the US commandos who killed him, US officials have said.

The pornography (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/13/pornography-osama-bin-laden-hideout) recovered in Bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, consisted of modern, electronically recorded video and was fairly extensive, according to current and former officials who discussed the discovery on condition of anonymity.

The officials said they were not sure where in the compound the pornography was discovered or who had been viewing it. They did not know if Bin Laden himself had acquired the material, or viewed it.

Reports from Abbottabad have said that Bin Laden's compound was cut off from the internet or other hard-wired communications networks and it is unclear how compound residents would have acquired the pornography.

Steve Franklin
05-13-2011, 10:46 PM
I heard they also found porn lol.

:flypig::flypig::flypig:

PsyOp Central missed a trick there. They could have keyed some pornography into the TV screen in the faux video of Random Old Geezer In Profile Watches Al-Jazeera In Random Bedsit. "Mohamad Atta Parties with Strippers Prior to 9/11" would have been a fine choice....

The psyop clowns must have exhausted their own idiotic script turns and resorted to stealing material from this thread.

Today's Guardian claims:


Pornography was found in the hideout of Osama bin Laden by the US commandos who killed him, US officials have said.

The pornography (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/13/pornography-osama-bin-laden-hideout) recovered in Bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, consisted of modern, electronically recorded video and was fairly extensive, according to current and former officials who discussed the discovery on condition of anonymity.

The officials said they were not sure where in the compound the pornography was discovered or who had been viewing it. They did not know if Bin Laden himself had acquired the material, or viewed it.

Reports from Abbottabad have said that Bin Laden's compound was cut off from the internet or other hard-wired communications networks and it is unclear how compound residents would have acquired the pornography.

I told you that was what they were watching at the White House in that famous photo. Hillary's expression is unmistakable. It was a live feed from Bin Laden's DVD player. Am I psychic or what?

Steve Franklin
05-13-2011, 10:51 PM
I heard they also found porn lol.

:flypig::flypig::flypig:

PsyOp Central missed a trick there. They could have keyed some pornography into the TV screen in the faux video of Random Old Geezer In Profile Watches Al-Jazeera In Random Bedsit. "Mohamad Atta Parties with Strippers Prior to 9/11" would have been a fine choice....

The psyop clowns must have exhausted their own idiotic script turns and resorted to stealing material from this thread.

Today's Guardian claims:


Pornography was found in the hideout of Osama bin Laden by the US commandos who killed him, US officials have said.

The pornography (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/13/pornography-osama-bin-laden-hideout) recovered in Bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, consisted of modern, electronically recorded video and was fairly extensive, according to current and former officials who discussed the discovery on condition of anonymity.

The officials said they were not sure where in the compound the pornography was discovered or who had been viewing it. They did not know if Bin Laden himself had acquired the material, or viewed it.

Reports from Abbottabad have said that Bin Laden's compound was cut off from the internet or other hard-wired communications networks and it is unclear how compound residents would have acquired the pornography.

I told you that was what they were watching at the White House in that famous photo. Hillary's expression is unmistakable. It was a live feed from Bin Laden's DVD player. Am I psychic or what?

Of course we're never going to see those videos because, well, "We had to dump them in the sea because they were so disgusting," and Barack needed them for his private collection of "war mementos."

Peter Lemkin
05-14-2011, 03:08 AM
The Bin Laden Assassination and the Limits of U.S. Power

by Sara Flounders


Global Research, May 12, 2011
workers.org

President Barack Obama has praised the targeted assassination of Osama bin Laden as a turning point and “one of the greatest military and intelligence operations in U.S. history.”


However, events in the week running up to the [alleged] execution exposed the limits of U.S. imperialist power and showed why the imperialists are so desperate to project an all-powerful image.


Obama’s message was that the Pentagon can do anything, go anywhere, kill anyone, bomb any country. Sovereignty is now irrelevant. The compliant media are glorifying Navy SEALS, Army Special Forces and Airborne Night Stalkers as “America’s quiet professionals.” We are told they have recently carried out 50 operations in a dozen countries. International lawlessness -- the use of torture, kidnapping, secret rendition, extrajudicial killings and targeted assassinations -- is justified and defended.


It is clear that this summary execution will be used to justify further expansion of the military budget, new weapons systems and a stepped-up level of domestic repression.


But all this has been unable to reverse U.S. imperialism’s steadily eroding position in the region. Consider a few events that took place in the two weeks before and after the bin Laden assassination. Clearly events are spinning out of their control.


Prison break in Kandahar


All their night-vision goggles, electronic listening gear and special ops units couldn’t prevent the escape on April 24 in Kandahar of 541 prisoners labeled as Taliban, including 104 commanders described as the very backbone of the insurgency.


The tunnel they had dug for months stretched half a mile and had electricity and air holes. Keys they had obtained to the cells allowed organizers to open cellblocks and escort prisoners to the escape route.


The facility had undergone security upgrades and tightened procedures since a Taliban attack in 2008 had freed 900 prisoners. In that assault, an explosives-laden tanker truck at the prison gate diverted attention while an explosion at a back wall opened an escape route. Dozens of militants on motorbikes aided the escapes.


Afghan government officials and their NATO backers had repeatedly asserted that the prison now had vastly improved security since that attack with new guard towers, night illumination, a ring of concrete barriers topped with razor wire and an entrance reached by passing through multiple checkpoints and gates.


Turn the guns around


On April 27 nine U.S. officers -- two lieutenant colonels, one of whom had retired and become a contractor, two majors, four captains and one master sergeant, all of them armed -- were killed in a meeting room at Kabul airport. The shooter was not with al-Qaida or the Taliban but was a trusted Afghan Air Force pilot with 20 years’ seniority.


This is the seventh time this year that a trusted Afghan officer has turned his gun around and killed U.S. military officials.


The same week also saw attacks inside the Afghan Defense Ministry, at a Kandahar city police station and at a shared Afghan/U.S. military base in the east. In neighboring Helmand province on April 29, the top civilian chief of Marjah district was assassinated.


On the same day, April 27, the Wall Street Journal ran a front-page article headlined, “Karzai told to dump U.S.” The article explained that “Pakistan is lobbying Afghanistan's president against building a long-term strategic partnership with the U.S., urging him instead to look to Pakistan -- and its Chinese ally -- for help in striking a peace deal with the Taliban and rebuilding the economy, Afghan officials say.” The article described the tensions between the U.S. and Pakistan and the deep hostility to U.S. domination throughout the region. Even the forces U.S. imperialism has created, armed and financed are increasingly wary of their alliances.


Cutting supply lines


Meanwhile, there were mass sit-ins and rallies near Peshawar, Pakistan, involving thousands of people who blocked the main supply roads used by the U.S. and NATO to resupply their forces in Afghanistan via the Khyber Pass.


The organizers threatened that if drone strikes inside Pakistan did not stop within 30 days, they would block all NATO supply routes across Pakistan and march to the capital, Islamabad, to force the government to take a stand on the issue. U.S. drones have killed more than 1,000 people in Pakistan alone


The execution of bin Laden came just one day after U.S. bombs meant for Moammar Gadhafi, the Libyan head of state, killed his son and three young grandchildren. The U.S./NATO war on Libya, once considered an easy “regime change,” continues without even a pro-forma congressional discussion or vote.


Arab spring


All these immediate setbacks for imperialism reflect also the millions in the streets in Egypt and Tunisia who totally overwhelmed those U.S.-government-supported, long-term dictatorships that Washington had relied on in the region.


The April 27 announcement by Fatah and Hamas of a historic agreement of Palestinian unity, reached in Cairo with the assistance of Egyptian officials, led to immediate U.S. threats to cut off all aid to Fatah and to outraged denunciations by Israel. For decades U.S./Israeli policy has been to keep the Palestinian movement divided and the democratically elected government of Hamas isolated.


On that same day, the station that pumped natural gas from al-Sabil terminal near El Arish, Egypt, into Israel was blown up. This third attack in three months will close the pipeline for weeks. Egyptian officials have also announced they are reviewing the below-market contract for natural gas that Egypt had formerly granted to Israel. Recent polls show the majority of Egyptians want to end the “peace treaty’ with Israel.


On April 30 Egypt announced it was opening the Rafah border crossing into Gaza and ending the blockade of Gaza on a permanent basis. The U.S. and Israel had imposed a strict blockade on Gaza since 2007 with Hosni Mubarak’s full compliance. Mubarak’s overturn in Egypt has meant an end to many reactionary policies. The people are in motion, asserting their rights and making new demands.


Meanwhile thousands of Iraqis continue to take to the streets and demonstrate in front of U.S. bases protesting shortages of electricity, food and jobs and calling on all U.S. troops to leave. U.S. officials are having a difficult time negotiating an agreement for continued bases in Iraq, even with a compliant and corrupt government of their own making.


Execution fuels outrage


The U.S. position in Pakistan was further eroded after the killing of bin Laden. Resolutions by the Lahore High Court Bar Association, not considered sympathetic to al-Qaida, speak volumes about the mass mood. One resolution, which passed unanimously, demanded the resignations of the president, the prime minister, the interior minister, the chief of army staff, the director general of Inter-Services Intelligence and the director of military intelligence for their failure to protect the sovereignty of Pakistan when the U.S. conducted its operation against bin Laden.


The U.S. operation in Abbottabad, close to the Pakistan Military Academy and the restricted site of the Kahuta nuclear plant, sparked deep apprehension.


Pumped up by the bin Laden execution, the Pentagon launched another drone attack on Pakistan on May 6, killing 17 people.


In Yemen that same day a drone attack failed to kill Anwar al Awlaki, a U.S. citizen and radical cleric who has never been charged with any crime but is now on a U.S. international hit list. The announcement said the drone attack “may have killed some members of al-Qaida in Yemen.” The attack is a disaster for the U.S.-supported military dictatorship in Yemen, which is on the brink of collapse. For three months millions of people have courageously demonstrated in the streets against the government. The Pentagon had stopped drone attacks, fearing they would further undermine the military dictatorship. Last year after a U.S. drone mistakenly killed the leaders of a Yemeni province, even the government expressed great anger.


On May 8, the Taliban allegedly launched a multipronged attack on the offices of the governor, the national security directorate, police headquarters and a U.S. Special Forces base in Kandahar, Afghanistan. It created chaos in the capital of a province that NATO has spent the past year trying to pacify. The May 8 Guardian of Britain explained, “The dream of turning the city into a bulwark of security was badly tarnished.”


U.S. media polls have measured a temporary “bump” in President Obama’s ratings. But U.S. imperialism’s own standing is in continuing decline. It has economic problems it can’t solve and terrifyingly destructive weapons that are increasingly raising more anger and organized resistance than fear.


After promises of an economic rebound, U.S. unemployment in April climbed to 9 percent. Wholesale attacks on Medicare and Social Security are proposed as solutions to the budget deficit. The capitalist economy can no longer afford guns and butter. Now the ruling class is pinning its hopes on the superprofits of military contracts and conquest.


While it is true that the Pentagon has weapons enough to destroy the world, it is increasingly coming up against the limits of the capitalist system it serves.

Jan Klimkowski
05-14-2011, 05:09 PM
The timing of this "prison break" now looks both significant and suspicious.

541 prison-hardened Taliban, including 104 commanders, are potentially far more dangerous than Osama, or the phantom, allegedly executed by SEALs in his "compound".

Did these Taliban really manage to spend months digging a half mile tunnel with electricity and air vents without NATO, the "finest military machine in the world", having a clue? Seems pretty preposterous.

Which means the false flag Strategy of Tension is alive and kicking.


Prison break in Kandahar


All their night-vision goggles, electronic listening gear and special ops units couldn’t prevent the escape on April 24 in Kandahar of 541 prisoners labeled as Taliban, including 104 commanders described as the very backbone of the insurgency.


The tunnel they had dug for months stretched half a mile and had electricity and air holes. Keys they had obtained to the cells allowed organizers to open cellblocks and escort prisoners to the escape route.


The facility had undergone security upgrades and tightened procedures since a Taliban attack in 2008 had freed 900 prisoners. In that assault, an explosives-laden tanker truck at the prison gate diverted attention while an explosion at a back wall opened an escape route. Dozens of militants on motorbikes aided the escapes.


Afghan government officials and their NATO backers had repeatedly asserted that the prison now had vastly improved security since that attack with new guard towers, night illumination, a ring of concrete barriers topped with razor wire and an entrance reached by passing through multiple checkpoints and gates.

Ed Jewett
05-15-2011, 03:17 AM
"The fingerprints of those behind the phony Bin Laden "kill" story are apparent. Bin Laden computer "porn" story is right out of the annals of the German Nazi publisher Julius Streicher, from whom the Allies captured a huge cache of pornography during the war. Equating Bin Laden to Hitler has been a ploy of the neocons and Zionists from day one."

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/ (the free part) providing link to http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/porn-found-in-bin-laden-home-20110514-1enfl.html#ixzz1MNirXVQ8

"... The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, would not say whether there was evidence that bin Laden or the other men living in the house had acquired or viewed the material.

The discovery of the pornography may not be surprising in a collection of five computers, 10 hard drives and dozens of USB drives and CDs whose age and past ownership is not known.

But the disclosure could fuel accusations of hypocrisy against the founder of al-Qaeda, who was 54 and lived with three wives at the time of his death, and will be welcomed by counter-terrorism officials because it could tarnish his legacy and erode the appeal of his brand of religious extremism.

In a 2002 ''letter to the American people'' bin Laden denounced US culture for its exploitation of women's bodies in dress, advertising and popular culture.
''Your nation exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools, calling upon customers to purchase them,'' he wrote. ''You plaster your naked daughters across billboards in order to sell a product without any shame. You have brainwashed your daughters into believing they are liberated by wearing revealing clothes, yet in reality all they have liberated is your sexual desire.''

A team of intelligence analysts under the CIA's direction has been reviewing the material seized from bin Laden's house in Abbottabad, Pakistan, by the navy SEAL team that killed him. Officials have said the material shows that bin Laden was making notes about new ways to attack the US and sending instructions by courier to subordinates and al-Qaeda affiliates...."


http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/porn-found-in-bin-laden-home-20110514-1enfl.html#ixzz1MNirXVQ8

Peter Lemkin
05-15-2011, 05:59 AM
Gee, I wonder which Intel PR firm thought that one up.....
Standard Operating Procedure
Physical assassination plus assignation of the person's image
Hard to be proud to be of the criminality done in the name of Amerika..... Good is only done now by individuals. I think the 'system' no longer would know good if they fell over it.....and if they did notice any....they'd kill it - and any connected with it.
I doubt anyone in the Middle East or Islamic world would will believe it. But the Sheeple in the West might.
Surprised they didn't also 'find' evidence of illegal drugs....wait, its coming....

Bernice Moore
05-15-2011, 11:10 PM
Even without Internet at compound, bin Laden had system to send emails and avoid US tracking

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/even-without-internet-compound-bin-laden-had-system-190214323.html

Bernice Moore
05-16-2011, 02:32 AM
http://www.hometownannapolis.com/news/gov/2011/05/15-47/Congressman-describes-grisly-bin-Laden-photos.html?ne=1

Jan Klimkowski
05-16-2011, 05:03 PM
Can these clowns spell PSYOP?

Helen Reyes
05-16-2011, 09:06 PM
Mike Rivero is linking to this.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/05/16/unconfirmed-american-deaths-helicopter-crash-bin-laden-capture-aborted/

Unconfirmed: Bin Laden Mission Aborted, American Deaths from Helicopter Crash

“EYEWITNESS” INTERVIEW SAYS AMERICANS DIED, MISSION UNSUCCESSFUL
“We saw the helicopter burning, we saw the dead bodies, then everything was removed and now there is nothing”
By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

A Pakistan news agency reports that the bin Laden raid on Abbottabad was aborted because of a helicopter crash which killed several passengers, believed to be Pashtu speaking Americans.

Though this is from a news agency, it is an eyewitness account and unconfirmed. Veterans Today has received this story from several sources but most recently from our comments section. Thanks!

If this story is true, it would be a disaster for the Obama presidency, deeply paralleling the unsuccessful hostage rescue attempt in Iran during the Carter presidency.

If the story is true, our heartfelt sympathies for the families of those who may have died in this operation. As described below, the mission depicts real heroism and, despite political concerns and the usual finger pointing, represents, of all the stories told, something Americans can be proud of.

True or not, there is a unpleasant ring of reality in this story that is lacking in all others, a reality proven out by the helicopter wreckage found at the scene.


YouTube - Veterans Today - (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0vo-L3VACs)

Full And Complete Translation Of The Pakistani News Video I Posted About Osama bin Laden

This is a translation of the video linked at the bottom and was translated by my friend Khan Taashk. THANK YOU my dear friend. I wish there were a way for ALL Americans to read this translation.



Anchor: Welcome back, Mohammad Bashir is a resident of Abboottabad’s Bilal Town. Muhammad Bashir might seem an ordinary guy but he is no ordinary guy. Muhammad Bashir lives in front of Osama Ben Laden’s house in Bilal Town Abbottabad. On 2nd of May, Muhammad Bashir was present on his rooftop from where he saw the whole American operation against Osama Ben Laden with his own eyes. Yesterday when our team was present In Bilal Town, Abbottabad, near Osama Ben Laden’s hose, Muhammad Bashir came to us and said, “Sister, I need to tell you something, something that is a burden on my heart and soul”, just listen to what he said.

Bashir: I am going to share something about the Abbottabad operation which till this day nobody else has told you.

Anchor: But Muhammad Bashir was a little afraid too, while talking to me he telephoned hia reletive, Vice President of Jummat-e-Islami, Abdur Razzaq Abasi, watch it

Reporter: Tell me your name and tell me whare do you live

Bashir: Let me first, Let me talk to him one minute, i will give you full interview, full or half?

Reporter: Full Full

Bashir: Let me first talk to him

Reporter: To whom? To Abbasi?

Bashir: yes, to Abbasi

Anchor: Muhammad Bashir told us something that no one said before. So we checked his identity card, we also confirmed that he really lives there, we asked from the senior fellows about him. We were very astonished by his story just see and listen what he said.

Bashir: We were awake, not asleep, a helicopter came, some men came down from that, into that house, then that helicopter went away

Reporter: How many men?

Bashir: 10-12, then that helicopter took rounds of those rear hills, then he came bac…k and when he came bach, two more helicopters arrived, one from the west and other from the north, there was a blast in the first helicopter and it was on fire, we immediately came out, when we reached there, the helicopter was burning, then after about 20 minutes the army and police arrived, they pushed us back, now we are asking that if oama was here then who took him to america because all those men that came in the helicopter died in the blast, now if Osama was in that helicopter he must have died and got burnt in that helicopter too, then how they took him? this is a question of serious concern. America claims they they killed him and picked him up. How they picked him up? This is what we are thinking

Reporter: Was there only one helicopter?

Bashir? Yes the other that came flew away to Mansehra, there was only one that landed the men and came back to pick them but as he was picking them up, it blew away and caught fire.

Reporter: Then were in it when it blew?

Bashir: Yes They were.

Reporter : How you know?

Bashir: We saw it with our own eyes

Reporter: You saw dead man?

Bashir: Yes, dead men,

Reporter: How many?

Bashir: I couldnt count them because then the compound was on fire. The gate was open, we went in, the army and police hadnt arrived then, there were some people but they werent stopping them. The whole neighborhood has seen that but they are silent now.

Bashir: We saw the helicopter burning, we saw the dead bodies, then everything was removed and now there is nothing

Reporter: How many dead bodies you saw?

Bashir: We couldn’t count them because they were blown into pieces.


The reporter asked Bashir to narrate the story again.



Bashir said we could see the faces of those men but they were speaking pashto. I dont know whether they were Pakistani or American army or people of agencies, as you know that agency people can speak many languages.

May be they were speaking Pashto so that we consider them Pakistani.

They knocked and banged at our doors and told us not to come out.

I laid down on my rooftop and was watching them.

My kids were calling me, I told them to go to their rooms and let me check whats going on.

The reporter asks Bashir, that when he saw that the helicopter was American what was he thinking then?

Bashir said that he got afraid. He didn’t had in his mind that they will attack that house. He thought that they might have come to attack the Pakistan Army.

The reporter asked so when was your cousin Shamraiz taken away?

Bashir: Shamrez was at our home, as the helicopter exploded, me and many others went out of our homes to see what happened. Shamrez also came out and the gate of the compound was open, we went in, every thing was lying scattered, as it is a huge compound, some body parts were lying here, some there, legs, arms, heads, broken and torn body parts, during that time some part of the helicopter inside, may be the engine or other fuel related part had an explosion so we rushed out. During that time Shamrez was taken away, he is in his home now, but no one is allowed to meet him and i couldn’t get a chance to talk to him later.

Then the anchor says that they had vegetations inside the compound and Shamrez was their gardener. We know that two men Arshad and Tariq used to live there. They had good relations with the neighbours, they used to buy things from the local store. Sometimes imported dates and used to send many things to their neighbours.

Then the reporter is at Abdullah Ben Zubair Mosque, which is the nearest to compound of Osama.

She asks a guy: do you think people would have been glad and happy if they would have ever met osama?

The guy : Yes, possibly. Because he was a muslim and he believed in God.


This is the whole story! Every aspect and point translated.



The gentleman being interviewed lives across from the compound. His cousin Sahab Jamrez Khan used to grow vegetables in the compound. He was taken away in all the hullabaloo on tape @10.29 Bashir says he did not see when they wisked his cousin away.

Interviewer asks “Have you spoken to your cousin?”

Bashir “No, I have not seen him yet he in in the house. “They will not let him get out” “They will not let me get in.”

2 other men Arshad Sahib and Tariq Sahib used to go to market to shop for that compound and bought international brand items. Dates, dried meat found in compound. Also food used to come from compound to Bashir’s house Kabulu Pilau and things like that used to be presented to Bashir. They will follow up with more information. In the end the lady is standing in front of Abdullah Bin Zubair mosque. The mosque was with in walking distance of the compound. She asks people if Osama did attend this mosque people would have be happy? The one answered maybe. The other said Osama did “not” live here but he was muslim and believed in God. Interview ends.

Another thing to note is that Bashir mentioned that we are very “sharif” meaning law abiding honest people. His town was a peaceful place no excitement no murders, fights, and he is unhappy how they have made his town so frightful with all this news. One thing is very clear in this video. Two helicopters hovered never landed. One landed dropped Pashto speaking poeple on the roof 10-12 of them Helicopter left fo 20 minutes returned to load people in and small blast engine failure fire helicopter parts all over. Body parts arms, legs, head, all over. Pakistani Army/Police came in dispersed crowd. The whole scene is cleaned up totally now. No evidence left to examine.


Link to original Pakistani News video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0vo-L3VACs&feature=player_embedded

Ed Jewett
05-17-2011, 02:07 AM
I just tried to go to "WhatReallyHappened" and encountered yet another problem suggestive of external tampering or some such thing. It and other sites (like Chris Floyd's Empire Burlesque) are frequently under DDOS or malware attacks suggesting that what they are saying is at least critically annoying if not accurate.

Peter Lemkin
05-17-2011, 05:02 AM
The Ongoing bin Laden Saga: Can Americans Be Unplugged?

by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

Global Research, May 16, 2011

"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

The ever-changing, ever-growing bin Laden story becomes ever more preposterous. The cowardly bin Laden is now the vain bin Laden, the terror mastermind who has nothing to do but to sit and watch videos of himself.

Washington released a video of an alleged bin Laden indulging in self-admiration, but there is no sound. Why? Was the video made without sound? Did Washington delete the audio? The video seems to show the alleged bin Laden speaking to someone in the room. Is the voice not bin Laden’s? Is the alleged bin Laden referring to the image on the screen in the third person, as not himself? Why would bin Laden have a video made of himself watching videos of himself? Why is a video of bin Laden watching bin Laden a headline story? Is it meant to substitute for the absence of a corpse?

As one reader put it, “The government is playing with us, experimenting to see if there is any tall tale we won’t believe.”

The story keeps changing as to whether “bin Laden’s compound,” no longer a million dollar luxury mansion, had Internet and communications or relied on couriers. The latest installment is that bin Laden was online. Washington says that the raid delivered into its hands bin Laden’s emails and diary, which, Washington claims, show an active bin Laden directing his terror network to carry out more plots. If bin Laden was online, why did Obama have to find him by trailing a courier?

Somehow the SEALs grabbed bin Laden’s diary and emails, but left all sorts of other documents that allegedly have fallen into Pakistani hands. These left-behind documents now serve as a pretext for more disputes with Pakistan and another excuse for ignoring Pakistan’s protests about the military operations the US carries out in Pakistan, violating the sovereignty of the country.

Why would the SEALs leave behind so many precious documents? First they kill for no reason the mastermind who could have revealed the world of terror; then they depart, leaving terror records behind. Some will say that this is typical US government incompetence. So how did such an incompetent government find bin Laden?

Any documents left behind were most likely carried in by the SEALs as plants. Has anyone independent of Washington examined the alleged bin Laden diary and confirmed that it was in bin Laden’s handwriting? These kind of questions are the kind the media, back when we had one, used to ask.

The bin Laden story is now such a fable with so many contradictory bits that people can pick and choose to suit the telling. Time magazine likes it all, except the part about an all-powerful bin Laden, still in control, rejecting an underling’s proposal “to fit a tractor with rotating blades to use to ‘mow down the enemies of Allah.’” Time prefers a bin Laden who was unsettled by his realization that he had lost his “historic significance” prior to losing his life to the US Navy SEALs.

If bin Laden had lost his significance, why did Obama get such a boost in the polls from his claim that he found bin Laden and had him killed?

The American Empire cannot do without bin Laden. The next installment of the fable will be that bin Laden escaped, leaving behind a double, and is abroad carrying out more terror plots.

As the fable continues, try to rescue from the Memory Hole the fact that we were presented with a death without a corpse and that Washington has no explanation for why an unarmed, undefended, frail man, who was a font of terrorist information, was murdered and not captured.

Peter Lemkin
05-17-2011, 05:05 AM
That story, above, about eyewitnesses that saw the only one escape helicopter explode and then dead and body parts needs to be verified...this whole 'caper' needs an international investigation - not a sham U.S. one. This opens up all kinds of new possibilities [and of course, itself, could be a false-flag story]. But if there is any truth to it, it would go a long way to explaining why some things were left at the 'OBL' compound and why there is no body to display. This obviously will 'play' on for years...like 911 and Dallas. :popworm: The problem is that Pakistani intelligence and military is no more trustworthy than America intelligence and military. They each have some mutual and some separate reasons to lie about what actually happened. :spy: If there are real witnesses, one can expect them to be silenced by many means....including mysterious deaths......

From the very beginning, it seemed quite obvious with some of the very, VERY strange parts of the [ever changing] story, that the real truth of what happened and to whom was not likely to come out; unless forced out.

As an aside, it really starts to look like only the weather report on the news, these days, is not fabricated, synthetic, false news-speak.

Helen Reyes
05-17-2011, 04:38 PM
I just tried to go to "WhatReallyHappened" and encountered yet another problem suggestive of external tampering or some such thing. It and other sites (like Chris Floyd's Empire Burlesque) are frequently under DDOS or malware attacks suggesting that what they are saying is at least critically annoying if not accurate.

It seemed significant to me as well that WRH got DDOSed heavily starting about an half hour before the White House released the latest bin Laden fable. Usually the site does draw some minor DDOS because of the strident anti-Israel tone of some of the links and headlines.

Regarding the long translated transcript of the Pakistani television interview above, my feeling is it complements my earlier hunches about, excuse the phrase, What Really Happened. I'm going to guess someone affiliated with the CIA Taliban in Pakistan project was targeted for assassination by an American strike force who spoke Pashtun, and who did all perish when the original helicopter came to pick them up. Snatching victory out of defeat, Obama told a whopper sufficient to excuse in the minds of some a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty well away from the drone attack zone on the Afghan frontier. I'm going to further guess that this presages major operations inside Pakistan with the complicity of a small group of CIA loyalists in the power structure who have all the assurances etc. for the limited nature of the incursions and their continued usefullness as allies, but who will be disappointed with those assurances at the same time there is pressure growing on their other flank to recognize a de facto state of war with the United States and NATO exists.

This is all speculation and not worth a thing at this point. Events will show whether it was accurate at all.

Jan Klimkowski
05-17-2011, 05:17 PM
Regarding the long translated transcript of the Pakistani television interview above, my feeling is it complements my earlier hunches about, excuse the phrase, What Really Happened. I'm going to guess someone affiliated with the CIA Taliban in Pakistan project was targeted for assassination by an American strike force who spoke Pashtun, and who did all perish when the original helicopter came to pick them up. Snatching victory out of defeat, Obama told a whopper sufficient to excuse in the minds of some a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty well away from the drone attack zone on the Afghan frontier. I'm going to further guess that this presages major operations inside Pakistan with the complicity of a small group of CIA loyalists in the power structure who have all the assurances etc. for the limited nature of the incursions and their continued usefullness as allies, but who will be disappointed with those assurances at the same time there is pressure growing on their other flank to recognize a de facto state of war with the United States and NATO exists.

This is all speculation and not worth a thing at this point. Events will show whether it was accurate at all.

Helen - I agree that your hypothesis is speculative. However, it is also informed by a deep political reading of much of the available "evidence", which has been deliberately spun, distorted, retracted, reissued, and - to coin a phrase - deliberately red herringed by PsyOp Central.

I still suspect that:

i) there was some sort of raid on a safe house in Abbottobad, involving an advanced - possibly Stealth - helicopter;

ii) that helicopter crash landed and was abandoned at the scene;

iii) since the safe house was so close to a major Pakistani miltary and intelligence hub, its existence must have been known to both ISI and US intelligence;

iv) the occupants of the safe house are, at this time, unknowable with any certainty;

v) PsyOp Central went into overdrive after the event, and the script - the Official Narrative - has broken down, catastrophically, on numerous occasions and is now totally non-credible.

In my judgement, point v) is crucial.

If this was simply the Chosen Time for the US President to announce the Death of "Terrorist Mastermind" and Bogeyman-In-Chief Osama Bin Laden, then I would expect the Official Narrative to have been scripted and honed to perfection.

Instead, that Official Narrative has collapsed again and again.

One implication of this is that the US military-multinational-intelligence-complex was not in control of events.

Helen - for me, this adds to the plausibility of your hypothesis in which this was not a raid on Bin Laden, but alternately a Special Forces operation around a very important US (or ISI) asset.

So, speculatively, there may have been a US intelligence/PMC agent provocateur military cell ensconced in the safe house, who were engaged in false flag actions to ratchet up the "War on Terror". Perhaps an ISI faction rumbled their presence in the Abbottobad safe house, decided to arrest them, and sparked a US Special Forces operation to attempt to protect and extract their assets. The Bin Laden nonsense then becomes a PsyOp Central attempt to cover up this illegal and botched mission.

Or, speculatively, there may have been a key ISI Al Qaeda/Taliban liaison in the safe house, and this was an American raid to capture that person because of his knowledge of covert US sponsorship of Al Qaeda/Taliban.

Or some variant of the above.

Whatever, the Obama Got Osama Tale now looks as likely as Big John Wayne loking into the sun without squinting....

Charles Drago
05-17-2011, 06:30 PM
I know, therefore I am.


Helen - I agree that your hypothesis is speculative. However, it is also informed by a deep political reading of much of the available "evidence", which has been deliberately spun, distorted, retracted, reissued, and - to coin a phrase - deliberately red herringed by PsyOp Central.

Spin, distortion, retraction, multi-iterations ... oh me oh my, I guess we can never know what happened here ... or anywhere ...

Uncertainty is our greatest vulnerability insofar as it inhibits correction of our "mysteriously" malfunctioning system.

And like the "perfect failure" that was the Bay of Pigs operation, the "imperfect 'success'" of the bin Laden charade keeps us paralyzed with doubt.


v) PsyOp Central went into overdrive after the event, and the script - the Official Narrative - has broken down, catastrophically, on numerous occasions and is now totally non-credible.

Or was the breakdown designed into the original scenario in order to foster endless speculation and support the "we can never really know" control mechanism?


If this was simply the Chosen Time for the US President to announce the Death of "Terrorist Mastermind" and Bogeyman-In-Chief Osama Bin Laden, then I would expect the Official Narrative to have been scripted and honed to perfection.

Perhaps it was. Scripted and executed to perfection, that is.


Instead, that Official Narrative has broken down again and again.

Perhaps it hasn't.


One implication of this is that the US military-multinational-intelligence-complex was not in control of events.

A higher authority, then? Utilizing another tool?


Whatever, the Obama Got Osama Tale now looks as likely as Big John Wayne loking into the sun without squinting....

This we can know ... to the degree of metaphysical certitude.

Jan Klimkowski
05-17-2011, 06:47 PM
Charlie - so you are proposing that, at the metaphysical level, the Sponsors want to infantilize us into a state where uncertainty rules and true knowledge of events is considered impossible?

There is shadow under this red rock
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

Charles Drago
05-17-2011, 08:01 PM
I'm not sure.

Ed Jewett
05-17-2011, 08:20 PM
Wit aside, the exchange above is why I hang around here. Y'all ought to have your very own talk show, podcast, or something.

Jan Klimkowski
05-17-2011, 08:26 PM
I'm not sure.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdi5PqMm4jQ

Charles Drago
05-17-2011, 08:35 PM
Wit aside, the exchange above is why I hang around here. Y'all ought to have your very own talk show, podcast, or something.

Not sure that would be a good idea ...

Helen Reyes
05-18-2011, 08:14 PM
Um, I surely don't know either, but it was somewhat spectacular how Leon Panetta came out and ruined the White House Situation Room live action snuff film photo within 24 hours, or however long it was.

CIA starting its own wikileaks (officially rather than secretly) with "terabytes" of Osama files is also a little strange, AS IF .... anyone would believe any of it, after director Leon discredited the whole fable publicly...

It might be an either/or: either designed to totally disgrace and catch Obama in a lie while offering him the carrot of no opposition at the Democratic primaries; or, the corpse of Osama suddenly pops up out of the Arabian Sea with a note stuffed in his mouth, and the professional formers of public opinion quit releasing 4chan photoshops and bring out the really good fake photos and helmet cam shots to discredit "the deniers" who bit at the initial bait of obvious fakeness.

However, it does on the surface look like a botched operation promoted to something grand and newsworthy on the fly, and it might just be that, an ad hoc attempt to wring victory from defeat. Nothing looked so bad on president Carter's resume as Oliver North's bombed and wrecked helicopter in Iran sent to rescue hostages being held at the behest of forces within the US intelligence establishment.

I don't know.

Jan Klimkowski
05-18-2011, 08:20 PM
Um, I surely don't know either, but it was somewhat spectacular how Leon Panetta came out and ruined the White House Situation Room live action snuff film photo within 24 hours, or however long it was.

CIA starting its own wikileaks (officially rather than secretly) with "terabytes" of Osama files is also a little strange, AS IF .... anyone would believe any of it, after director Leon discredited the whole fable publicly...

It might be an either/or: either designed to totally disgrace and catch Obama in a lie while offering him the carrot of no opposition at the Democratic primaries; or, the corpse of Osama suddenly pops up out of the Arabian Sea with a note stuffed in his mouth, and the professional formers of public opinion quit releasing 4chan photoshops and bring out the really good fake photos and helmet cam shots to discredit "the deniers" who bit at the initial bait of obvious fakeness.

However, it does on the surface look like a botched operation promoted to something grand and newsworthy on the fly, and it might just be that, an ad hoc attempt to wring victory from defeat. Nothing looked so bad on president Carter's resume as Oliver North's bombed and wrecked helicopter in Iran sent to rescue hostages being held at the behest of forces within the US intelligence establishment.

I don't know.

Me too.

But the insightful unpicking of the onion layers of this Tall Tale is a worthwhile endeavour.

And it may be that the core event is close to your (or my, or other) working hypotheses in this thread.

Even if another purpose is to create a sense of the Impossibility of Knowing For Sure....

Carsten Wiethoff
05-19-2011, 06:14 AM
From http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=46960&Cat=1&dt=5/14/2011



Did a Pakistani official sell info to CIA to settle in the West?

Wajid Ali Syed
(http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintWriterName.aspx?ID=1&URL=Wajid%20Ali%20Syed) Saturday, May 14, 2011



WASHINGTON: Did a Pakistani intelligence official sell the information about the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden to the US last year to get millions of dollars and relocate to a western country with a new non-Pakistani passport? All those seeking to know the full facts of the Osama episode are looking for an answer to this question.

President Barack Obama would not have agreed to go forward with the mission to kill Osama bin Laden had it not been for intense pressure from CIA Director Leon Panetta, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Secretary of Defence Robert Gates, administration sources have revealed.

The advocates of the mission had “reached a boiling point”, because President Obama, hesitated for months and kept delaying the final approval. This delay was because of a close aide who suggested that this could damage him politically.

According to these sources, Administration officials were frustrated with the president’s indecisiveness and his orders not to carry out the mission in February. President Obama was “dragged kicking and screaming” to give the green light for the operation in the last week of April. By then, the US military and other high-level officials were so determined to launch the operation that they did not want to give the president the opportunity to delay or to call it off. President Obama reluctantly approved to go forward with the operation only if the CIA head agreed to take all the blame in case the mission failed. The planning for the operation underscores the deep divisions in the Obama administration, with President Obama and a close aide, Valerie Jarrett, procrastinating on making a decision and high-ranking officials and members of the cabinet pressing him to go ahead on the other. The chief architect of the plan to “take bin Laden out” was CIA Director Leon Panetta.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Defence Robert Gates, US Commander in Afghanistan General David Petraeus and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper were part of the group that supported Panetta.

When asked to comment, the White House referred the question to the National Security Council. The NSC said the Department of Defence was fielding such inquiries. The Defence Department’s press office contact Lieutenant Colonel Elizabeth Robbins responded with this comment: “The Department of Defense is not giving out any further operational details of the mission.”

However, according to an informed official, the story that a courier helped track bin Laden is just a cover. The CIA actually learned of bin Laden’s whereabouts in August of 2010, when an informant associated with Pakistani intelligence walked into a US Embassy and claimed that bin Laden was living in a house in Abbottabad. The official, however, would not disclose whether the Embassy was located in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

After confirming that the information was somewhat accurate, the CIA set up a safe house in Abbottabad in September last year to monitor bin Laden’s compound.

As the intelligence collection proceeded, the CIA demanded that Pakistan come clean with what they knew about bin Laden, claims the official. In December of 2010, the CIA station chief’s identity was made public in the Pakistani press. The intelligence official says that the station chief’s cover was blown to retaliate against the CIA for pressing Pakistani intelligence for information about bin Laden. At the time, the speculation was that the move was in response to a civil suit accusing ISI officials of being involved in the 2008 Mumbai attacks. Once it was clear that the information from the walk-in source was accurate, Panetta set up a reporting chain from the CIA’s Pakistan station direct to him, a highly unusual move that involved bypassing the normal official channels.

Again the US president was not informed of this progress. Meanwhile, the intelligence operatives learned that key people from an Islamic country friendly to Pakistan were sending Pakistan money to keep Osama out of sight and under virtual house arrest, claims the official.

By January of 2011 there was a high degree of certainty that bin Laden was in the house. In early February, Panetta suggested that the US should move on bin Laden. But Gates and Petraeus were determined to avoid the “boots on the ground” strategy at all costs. CIA chief Panetta was in favour of an invasion. But President Obama balked on the advice of Valerie Jarrett, a close aide.

The source maintains that Jarrett’s objection to the proposal was based on the worry that the mission could fail, further eroding Obama’s approval ratings and the strong likelihood that it would be interpreted as yet another act of aggression against the Muslims. The source explained that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton played a crucial role to pressure President Obama to take action. In the last week of April, she met with White House Chief of Staff William Daley to request a meeting with the president to secure approval for the mission. Within hours, Daley called to say that Valerie Jarrett refused to allow the president to give that approval.

However, Clinton made sure that the vice president was made aware of the situation. The president was later approached by Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates and Leon Panetta and pressurised to order the mission.

Panetta was directing the operation with both his CIA operatives and the military. The plan was not to capture but to kill bin Laden on sight. Contrary to the news reports, it was Panetta and not President Obama who took the lead on coordinating the details of the mission.

According to the source, the White House staff has compromised the identity of the unit that carried out the mission. The source said the claim that the raid yielded a “treasure trove” of information about al-Qaeda is also exaggerated. Obama meanwhile is “milking” the mission as a tactic to better his chances of re-election in 2012. The concern in intelligence circles is that in his zeal to boost his approval ratings, the president is harming relations with Pakistan.

The writer is currently a freelance journalist based in Washington who has worked for foreign and Pakistani newspapers and TV channels.

Magda Hassan
05-19-2011, 12:15 PM
Gossip and unauthorized leaks from U.S. officials, politicians and retired military officers about the highly classified raid to kill Osama bin Laden have jeopardized the ability of special forces to carry out similar operations in the future, said Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
"Too many people in too many places are talking too much about this operation," Gates said, adding that the level of disclosures and blabbing violates an agreement reached in the White House Situation Room on May 8 to keep details of the raid private.
"That lasted about 15 hours," Gates said sourly.
The cascade of details surfacing about the highly classified event makes similar operations in the future "that much more difficult and riskier," Gates told reporters at a Pentagon briefing Wednesday.
"It is time to stop talking," agreed Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In a pointed directive to officials, politicians and the retired military officers often featured on cable news programs, he added, "Get off the net."
Members of the Navy SEAL team that tore into bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan and killed the 9/11 mastermind had expressed concern to Gates about the safety of their families after the team had been identified publicly and officials from the White House, the Pentagon and Congress widely discussed the operation.
In a meeting with hundreds of Marines at Camp Lejeune last week, Gates acknowledged such concerns. He said the Defense Department had mounted "a consistent and effective effort" to protect the identities of those who participated in the raid.
"We are very concerned about the security of our families -- of your families and our troops, and also these elite units that are engaged in things like that," Gates told the Marines.
"And without getting into any details, I would tell you that when I met with the team last Thursday, they expressed a concern about that, and particularly with respect to their families," he added. "And so we're -- I -- as you say, I can't get into the details in this forum, but we are looking at what measures can be taken to pump up the security."
White House National Security Adviser Tom Donilon initially disclosed sketchy details of the raid they day after it happened. But more information poured forth from Capitol Hill after members of Congress were briefed on the operation and as retired SEALs and others began explaining tactical details. Much of the information published was credited to unnamed officials.
Officials and politicians have discussed the "stealth" helicopter that the SEALs were forced to leave behind after it malfunctioned over bin Laden’s compound and the use of "stealth" drones that watched the compound for weeks before the raid, unseen by Pakistani air defense facilities. Leakers have also disclosed details of how the SEALs had planned to storm the compound, the back-up plan once the helicopter malfunctioned, and other tactical pieces of information.
"We have gotten to a point where we are close to jeopardizing the precision capability that we have, and we can’t afford to do that," Mullen told reporters. "This fight isn’t over."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/18/robert-gates-mike-mullen-bin-laden-raid-leakers_n_863712.html

Jan Klimkowski
05-19-2011, 05:16 PM
From http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=46960&Cat=1&dt=5/14/2011



Did a Pakistani official sell info to CIA to settle in the West?

Wajid Ali Syed
(http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintWriterName.aspx?ID=1&URL=Wajid%20Ali%20Syed) Saturday, May 14, 2011

WASHINGTON: Did a Pakistani intelligence official sell the information about the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden to the US last year to get millions of dollars and relocate to a western country with a new non-Pakistani passport? All those seeking to know the full facts of the Osama episode are looking for an answer to this question.

President Barack Obama would not have agreed to go forward with the mission to kill Osama bin Laden had it not been for intense pressure from CIA Director Leon Panetta, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Secretary of Defence Robert Gates, administration sources have revealed.

The advocates of the mission had “reached a boiling point”, because President Obama, hesitated for months and kept delaying the final approval. This delay was because of a close aide who suggested that this could damage him politically.

According to these sources, Administration officials were frustrated with the president’s indecisiveness and his orders not to carry out the mission in February. President Obama was “dragged kicking and screaming” to give the green light for the operation in the last week of April. By then, the US military and other high-level officials were so determined to launch the operation that they did not want to give the president the opportunity to delay or to call it off. President Obama reluctantly approved to go forward with the operation only if the CIA head agreed to take all the blame in case the mission failed. The planning for the operation underscores the deep divisions in the Obama administration, with President Obama and a close aide, Valerie Jarrett, procrastinating on making a decision and high-ranking officials and members of the cabinet pressing him to go ahead on the other. The chief architect of the plan to “take bin Laden out” was CIA Director Leon Panetta.



Carsten - thanks for posting. This is an important article, and needs to be considered as we analyze what really happened.....

My own initial contribution to that analysis is that I categorize such articles as Political Porn, for Inside the Beltway reporters. They enable political correspondents (lobby correspondents in UK terms) to concoct narratives about infighting amongst our politicians.

Such "political infighting" narratives strike me as fundamentally diversionary.

During the 2nd Gulf War there were plenty of stories about infighting between Dick Cheney and Colin Powell, with Dubya Bush cast as the Prez being forced to choose.

Any deep political analysis of Powell's career reveals his role as the officer chosen to cover up My Lai, who was later posted to the Golden Triangle with his "white son" and muscle, Richard Armitage.

I regard all that Cheney versus Powell stuff as political theatre, and largely untrue. A few squabbles around tactics or timing perhaps. But no real disagreement about geopolitical goals.

So, I regard the Wajid Ali Syed article with tales of infighting between those around Obama, and describing Obama as weak and procrastinating, as largely political fable to give the West Wing correspondents some subject matter.

I find the following especially incredible:


By January of 2011 there was a high degree of certainty that bin Laden was in the house. In early February, Panetta suggested that the US should move on bin Laden. But Gates and Petraeus were determined to avoid the “boots on the ground” strategy at all costs. CIA chief Panetta was in favour of an invasion. But President Obama balked on the advice of Valerie Jarrett, a close aide.

What?!?!?

DCIA wanted to INVADE Pakistan to "get Bin Laden"?

That strikes me as fundamentally implausible.

Carsten Wiethoff
05-19-2011, 05:27 PM
What?!?!?

DCIA wanted to INVADE Pakistan to "get Bin Laden"?

That strikes me as fundamentally implausible.

Me too. I think this could be a mistranslation, the conflict being whether to send soldiers to get Bin Laden or to simply bomb the building.

Helen Reyes
05-19-2011, 06:06 PM
Gordon Duff tells Iran's Press TV Osama clone run by Raymond Davis was hit in raid:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/180564.html
"US killed Bin Laden clone in Pakistan"

ISI and CIA concocted alternative to virulently independent Kashmir separatist organization owned Abbottabad "mansion" and there was marijuana growing in the vegetable garden according to reporters who visited after the raid:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/asia-mainmenu-33/7519-does-a-cia-qassetq-own-the-bin-laden-compound
"Does a CIA 'Asset' Own the bin Laden Compound?"

Peter Lemkin
05-19-2011, 06:28 PM
Gordon Duff tells Iran's Press TV Osama clone run by Raymond Davis was hit in raid:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/180564.html
"US killed Bin Laden clone in Pakistan"

ISI and CIA concocted alternative to virulently independent Kashmir separatist organization owned Abbottabad "mansion" and there was marijuana growing in the vegetable garden according to reporters who visited after the raid:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/asia-mainmenu-33/7519-does-a-cia-qassetq-own-the-bin-laden-compound
"Does a CIA 'Asset' Own the bin Laden Compound?"

While an interesting prospect or 'twist', who wrote that article? I think we are now dealing with slab upon slab of disinfo mean to bury forever the truth of what happened and who was there [living there and invading there]. This worry [wring hands icon] about 'people talking too much about what happened' are crocodile tears and pure theater. It would take a NON-USA independent investigation to ever untangle this. Short of that [and we can be sure of short of that!], the clarity will become more like the fog of war...the war against all but the ultra-rich, ultra-oligarchs of his World. Sadly.

Peter Lemkin
05-20-2011, 10:45 AM
Demanding the Evidence on Abbottabad: Even the Media Establishment Is Wary
18th May 2011

By Russ Baker
WhoWhatWhy.com

Since the Navy SEAL raid in Abbottabad, we’ve been raising questions (here and here) about the stories we were told—and what we were not told.

It seems we have company in feeling that the government is not leveling with us.

The Associated Press is the establishment, and so they tend to be quite cautious. Yet look at this, as reported by Atlanticwire:

President Obama’s decision to withhold the visual evidence of Osama bin Laden’s death has created a fundamental disagreement between the White House and one of the largest journalism organizations in the world. “This information is important for the historical record,” said Michael Oreskes, senior managing editor at The Associated Press. “That’s our view.”

It’s worth pointing out that “important for the historical record” is a tactful way of dressing up the issue. The United States is supposed to be a democracy, but for a very long time the citizens have had good reason not to trust what they are told about what is done in their name, and why. (Gulf of Tonkin, Iran Contra, Weapons of Mass Destruction, on and on—name your favorite deception.)

Last Monday, the AP filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the photographic and video evidence taken during the raid on bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The organization’s FOIA request included a reminder of the president’s campaign pledge and a plea to be more transparent than his predecessor. ”The Obama White House ‘pledged to be the most transparent government in U.S. history,” wrote the AP, “and to comply much more closely with the Freedom of Information Act than the Bush administration did.’”

Again, what AP presumably really meant was that there’s a staggering gap between Obama’s promise to open up government and what he has actually done. For more on this, see this recent example from the publication Secrecy News, just one of hundreds. (In this case, a report on corruption in the Afghan Central Bank was removed from the USAID website after the agency reclassified some of its contents.)

Back to the AP story:

Two days later, the president told60 Minutes he would not release any of the footage related to the raid, including video of bin Laden’s deep sea burial and photographs of his slain corpse. Though Oreskes voices his disagreement diplomatically, there’s no way around it: The AP believes the president is wrong to maintain exclusive ownership of the evidence. ”We’re asking to see it,” said Oreskes in an interview with The Atlantic Wire. “It’s about us saying we would like to make our own news judgements about news worthy material.”

Diplomatic as ever. But the difference between what members of the corporate-funded media write and what they say in private over drinks could, well, fill a newspaper. Basically, by now, even the most clueless establishment reporter is starting to get a clear sense that something ain’t right in Washington, and that it doesn’t really matter who is president or what party he calls his own. Not when powerful international interests—and hugely valuable natural resources—are at stake.

The president insists that releasing bin Laden’s photograph violates common decency and puts U.S. troops in harm’s ways. “We don’t trot out this stuff as trophies,” he told Steve Kroft on 60 Minutes. “I think that given the graphic nature of these photos, it would create some national security risk.”

Many in the press have agreed. “To put his head on a digital spike and display his mangled head is, indeed, not the Western way,” wrote Andrew Sullivan on Wednesday.

That comment, of course, hardly backs up the claim of a national security risk. But it does underline something: the “Western way” is, increasingly, to kill by remote control, to pretend no one actually dies, to deny the human toll behind strategic and tactical decisions based on scenarios that no one can any longer properly explain. Like how Osama became such a powerhouse in the first place, what his real influence was, or why the US is still in Afghanistan.

But a journalist’s prerogative is to ask questions and find answers, said Oreskes. “It’s our job as journalists to seek this material.”

“We’re not deciding in advance to publish this material,” he pledged. “We would like our journalists, who are working very hard, to see this material and then we’ll decide what’s publishable and what’s not publishable based on the possibility that it’s inflammatory.”

Coming from a country where shock value is increasingly the gold standard, it’s a decidedly odd notion that when a story is really big is the only time to be delicate with sensibilities.

Senator Lindsey Graham, Senator Susan Collins, Rep. Peter King and The Wall Street Journal’s Peggy Noonan have each sought the photos release at one point or another. They each maintained that bin Laden, of course, is dead and the White House’s narrative is to be believed. But photos should be released to tamp down conspiracy theories.

It’s interesting that nobody respectable will admit to private concerns about the conflicting stories we’ve been told about Osama and Al Qaeda over the years. Of course the White House’s narrative “is to be believed”, but, um, can we please see the proof anyway? Just for the heck of it?

For Oreskes, the photo is an important piece of evidence to establish what happened during the Navy SEALs raid on bin Laden’s Abbottabad compound. ”In the week since the raid there’s been a whole series of story-lines about what happened in this raid,” said Oreskes. “At this point, anything that might shed more light on what occurred is potentially quite newsworthy. So we would like this imagery to fully understand what happened during this event.”

“I can’t tell you what understanding we would get,” he prefaced. “But we would like to see it and compare it with other things we’re being told about this raid both by U.S. officials and officials in other countries.”

What he presumably means is that there’s something fundamentally wrong with the inconsistencies in the White House version of events, and if we can’t even resolve those, how can we ever trust it on more mundane matters?

The AP isn’t alone in wanting more insight on the specifics of the raid. When it eventually surfaced that bin Laden was not killed in a firefight, his wife wasn’t used as a human shield, there was no live footage of the event and the “mansion” where he lived was only worth between $250,000 and $480,000, many became skeptical of the White House’s narrative. Other organizations that have filed FOIAs include Politico, Fox News, Judicial Watch and Citizens United. Oreskes sympathizes with the president. “This is obviously one of his most difficult decisions and we understand that.”

Actually, we don’t even really know that it was one of his most difficult decisions. And we don’t even know that it is really his to make. The real story of how decisions are “made” by the temporary occupants of the White House has a lot more to do with permanent constituencies and power centers inside and outside government that have been shaping events globally for decades. Those who read accounts of former insiders, from Fletcher Prouty (former chief of special operations for the Pentagon) to Col. Lawrence Wilkerson (former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell) to investigative reporters (sorry—personal plug—yours truly), know that there’s far more intrigue in this process than even the president himself may know.

At best, presidents, who lack personal knowledge of the complex details, hidden agendas, and cooked intelligence, are dependent on how the options are presented to them and framed by unseen others. The truth is too sensitive to share with mere mortals like Obama, who at worst will be out of the way in a few short years. Meanwhile, every president has a stake in hiding how little real power he actually has.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/05/16/demanding-the-evidence-on-abbottabad-even-the-media-establishment-is-wary/

Ed Jewett
05-21-2011, 12:09 AM
Oh dear me... (http://cryptome.org/info/obama-obl-cia/obama-obl-cia.htm)

Charles Drago
05-21-2011, 12:37 AM
Ceremony of blood.

Made God have mercy on the soul of Osama bin Laden ... and on the souls of whoever died in the "raid."

These deaths diminish me.

Peter Lemkin
05-21-2011, 04:58 AM
Oh dear me... (http://cryptome.org/info/obama-obl-cia/obama-obl-cia.htm)

I have to rethink the entire CIA [not!], as they allow men with beards. NOTE: All in those photos must be very low level grunts in the CIA - otherwise they'd not even allow their faces to be shown. Gardening or cleaning staff?

Magda Hassan
05-21-2011, 07:22 AM
How Many SEALs Died?

by Paul Craig Roberts

May 21, 2011

In a sensational and explosive TV report, the Pakistani News Agency has provided a live interview with an eyewitness to the US attack on the alleged compound of Osama bin Laden. The eye witness, Mohammad Bashir, describes the event as it unfolded. Of the three helicopters, “there was only one that landed the men and came back to pick them up, but as he [the helicopter] was picking them up, it blew away and caught fire.” The witness says that there were no survivors, just dead bodies and pieces of bodies everywhere. “We saw the helicopter burning, we saw the dead bodies, then everything was removed and now there is nothing.”
http://static.foreignpolicyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Bin-Laden-Compound-Helicopter-300x206.png (http://static.foreignpolicyjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Bin-Laden-Compound-Helicopter.png)I always wondered how a helicopter could crash, as the White House reported, without at least producing injuries. Yet, in the original White House story, the SEALs not only survived a 40-minute firefight with al Qaeda, “the most highly trained, most dangerous, most vicious killers on the planet,” without a scratch, but also survived a helicopter crash without a scratch.
The Pakistani news report is available on YouTube. The Internet site, Veterans Today, posted a translation along with a video of the interview. Information Clearing House made it available (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28110.htm) on May 17.
If the interview is not a hoax and the translation is correct, we now know the answer to the unasked question: Why was there no White House ceremony with President Obama pinning medals all over the heroic SEALs who tracked down and executed Public Enemy Number One?
The notion that Obama had to keep the SEALs’ identity secret in order to protect the SEALs from al Qaeda detracts from the heroic tough guy image of the SEALs, and it strains credulity that Obama’s political handlers would not have milked the occasion for all it is worth.
Other than on the Veterans Today and ICH Internet sites, I have not seen any mention of the Pakistani news story. If the White House press corps is aware of the report, no one has asked President Obama or his press spokesperson about it. Helen Thomas was the last American reporter sufficiently brave to ask such a question, and she was exterminated by the Israel Lobby.
In America we have reached the point where anyone who tells the truth is dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist” and marginalized. Recently, a professor of nano-chemistry from the University of Copenhagen made a lecture tour of major Canadian universities explaining the research, conducted by himself and a team of physicists and engineers, that resulted in finding small particles of unreacted nano-thermite in dust samples from the wreckage of the World Trade Center towers, in addition to other evidence that the professor and the research team regard as conclusive scientific proof that the towers were brought down by controlled demolition.
No American university dared to invite him, and as far as I know, no mention of the explosive research report has ever appeared in the American press.
I find it astonishing that 1,500 architects and engineers, who actually know something about buildings, their construction, their strength and weaknesses, and who have repeatedly requested a real investigation of the destruction of the three WTC buildings, are regarded as conspiracy kooks by people who know nothing whatsoever about architecture or engineering or buildings. The same goes for the large number of pilots who question the flight maneuvers carried out during the attacks, and the surviving firemen and “first responders” who report both hearing and personally experiencing explosions in the towers, some of which occurred in sub-basements.
A large number of high-ranking political figures abroad don’t believe a word of the official 9/11 story. For example, the former president of Italy and dean of the Italian Senate, told Italy’s oldest newspaper, Corriere delia Sera, that the intelligence services of Europe “know well that the disastrous [9/11] attack has been planned and realized by the American CIA and the Mossad . . . in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part in [the invasions].”
Even people who report that there are dissenting views, as I have done, are branded conspiracy theorists and banned from the media. This extends into the Internet in addition to newspapers and TV. Not long ago a reporter for the Internet site, The Huffington Post, discovered that Pat Buchanan and I are critics of the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions. He was fascinated that there were some Reagan administration officials who dissented from the Republican Party’s war position and asked to interview me.
After he posted the interview on The Huffington Post, someone told him that I was not sound on 9/11. In a panic the reporter contacted me, demanding to know if I disbelieved the official 9/11 story. I replied that being neither architect, engineer, physicist, chemist, pilot, nor firefighter, I had little to contribute to understanding the event, but that I had reported that various experts had raised questions.
The reporter was terrified that he might somehow have given a 9/11 skeptic credibility and be fired for interviewing me about my war views for The Huffington Post. He quickly added at the beginning and, if memory serves, ending of the posted interview words to the effect that my lack of soundness on 9/11 meant that my views on the wars could be disregarded. If only he had known that I was unsure about the official 9/11 story, there would have been no interview.
One doesn’t have to be a scientist, architect, engineer, pilot or firefighter to notice astonishing anomalies in the 9/11 story. Assume that the official story is correct and that a band of terrorists outwitted not only the CIA and FBI, but also all 16 US intelligence agencies and those of our NATO allies and Israel’s notorious Mossad, along with the National Security Council, NORAD, air traffic control and airport security four times in one hour on the same morning. Accept that this group of terrorists pulled off a feat worthy of a James Bond movie and delivered a humiliating blow to the world’s only superpower.
If something like this really happened, would not the president, the Congress, and the media be demanding to know how such an improbable thing could have happened? Investigation and accountability would be the order of the day. Yet President Bush and Vice President Cheney resisted the pleas and demands for an investigation from the 9/11 families for one year, or was it two, before finally appointing a non-expert committee of politicians to listen to whatever the government chose to tell them. One of the politicians resigned from the commission on the grounds that “the fix is in.”
Even the two chairmen and the chief legal counsel of the 9/11 Commission wrote books in which they stated that they believe that members of the military and other parts of the government lied to the commission and that the commission considered referring the matter for investigation and prosecution.
Thomas Kean, chairman of the 9/11 Commission, said: “FAA and NORAD officials advanced an account of 9/11 that was untrue . . . We, to this day don’t know why NORAD told us what they told us . . . It was just so far from the truth.”
Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton said: “We had a very short time frame . . . we did not have enough money . . . We had a lot of people strongly opposed to what we did. We had a lot of trouble getting access to documents and to people. . . . So there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail.”
As far as I know, not a single member of the government or the media made an issue of why the military would lie to the commission. This is another anomaly for which we have no explanation.
The greatest puzzle is the conclusion drawn by a national audience from watching on their TV screens the collapse of the WTC towers. Most seem satisfied that the towers [I]fell down as a result of structural damage inflicted by the airliners and from limited, low-temperature fires. Yet what the images show is not buildings falling down, but buildings blowing up. Buildings that are destroyed by fires and structural damage do not disintegrate in 10 seconds or less into fine dust with massive steel beams sliced at each floor level by high temperatures that building fires cannot attain. It has never happened, and it never will.
Conduct an experiment. Free your mind of the programmed explanation of the towers’ destruction and try to discern what your eyes are telling you as you watch the videos of the towers that are available online. Is that the way buildings fall down from damage, or is that the way buildings are brought down by explosives? Little doubt, many Americans prefer the official story to the implications that follow from concluding that the official story is untrue.
If reports are correct, the US government has gone into the business of managing the public’s perceptions of news and events. Apparently, the Pentagon has implemented Perception Management Psychological Operations. There are also reports that the State Department and other government agencies use Facebook and Twitter to stir up problems for the Syrian, Iranian, Russian, Chinese, and Venezuela governments in efforts to unseat governments not controlled by Washington. In addition, there are reports that both governments and private organizations employ “trolls” to surf the Internet and to attempt to discredit in blogs and comment sections reports and writers who are out of step with their interests. I believe I have encountered trolls myself.
In addition to managing our perceptions, much is simply never reported. On May 19, 2011, the fourteen-decade-old British newspaper, The Statesman, reported (http://www.thestatesman.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=370105&catid=35) that the Press Trust of India has reported that the Chinese government has warned Washington “in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China,” and advised the US government “to respect Pakistan’s sovereignty.”
As trends forecaster Gerald Celente and I have warned, the warmongers in Washington are driving the world toward World War III. Once a country is captured by its military/security complex, the demand for profit drives the country deeper into war. Perhaps this news report from India is a hoax, or perhaps the never-diligent mainstream media will catch up with the news tomorrow, but so far this extraordinary warning from China has not been reported in the US media.
The mainstream media and a significant portion of the Internet are content for our perceptions to be managed by psy-ops and by non-reporting. This is why I wrote not long ago that today Americans are living in George Orwell’s [I]1984.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2011/05/21/how-many-seals-died/

Helen Reyes
05-21-2011, 12:17 PM
Gordon Duff tells Iran's Press TV Osama clone run by Raymond Davis was hit in raid:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/180564.html
"US killed Bin Laden clone in Pakistan"

ISI and CIA concocted alternative to virulently independent Kashmir separatist organization owned Abbottabad "mansion" and there was marijuana growing in the vegetable garden according to reporters who visited after the raid:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-mainmenu-26/asia-mainmenu-33/7519-does-a-cia-qassetq-own-the-bin-laden-compound
"Does a CIA 'Asset' Own the bin Laden Compound?"

While an interesting prospect or 'twist', who wrote that article? I think we are now dealing with slab upon slab of disinfo mean to bury forever the truth of what happened and who was there [living there and invading there]. This worry [wring hands icon] about 'people talking too much about what happened' are crocodile tears and pure theater. It would take a NON-USA independent investigation to ever untangle this. Short of that [and we can be sure of short of that!], the clarity will become more like the fog of war...the war against all but the ultra-rich, ultra-oligarchs of his World. Sadly.

I don't know who wrote the second article. I thought it was a Pakistani at first but it was an anglo name next time I looked.

I think it's possible to reconcile the various eyewitness accounts and speculate a little with a scenario that involves the only helicopter crashing at pick up, all US Pashtun-speaking troops dying, no photographs, no Osama, possibly a hit of someone involved with Raymond Davis' organization of groups to set up a threat to Pakistan's nuclear arsenal who said too much, an ISI CIA loyalist tipped off CIA... Why send in a helicopter though? What about these supposed "safe houses" keeping a watch on the place for months? The "safe houses" might be complete non-sense, they might be part of the same chain of safehouses to which the "Osama" compound belonged, or the helicopter attack was supposed to be a diversion to keep the safehouses safely away from scrutiny ... ?

The blog entry about AP getting cold feet about the story was interesting, a sort of "pics or it didn't happen" take on reality, instead of the more stringent rules for evidence journalists and courts used to require, but even "pics or stfu" doesn't work with extreme right-wing Republican CIA careerist Barry Soetoro.

On the spectacle of the publicly clandestine victory-snatched-from-defeat orgy at CIA (in the lobby?), the orgasmic female reaching out to the avatar of hope+change recalls the entire Obama campaign, which never ended; his entire public career at the White House has been a continuation of the 2008 campaign, as if he is still trying to prove he's a viable candidate instead of looking to be doing presidential stuff in a presidential way, at a superficial level anyway. Interesting way not to infiltrate the US presidency, but his backers might not be the most creative bunch ever to steal the office.

I don't think the CIA staff pictured are cleaning staff: they're doubtless paid actors as Obama bin Biden hired for "townhall meetings" with a sprinkling of lower-level minions probably engaged in some sort of data entry or photographic analysis. You can tell they spend a lot of time in the dark from their complexions. The "man in the suit" looking the wrong way seems to imply the need for Secret Service INSIDE a CIA facility, or maybe he's just that way by nature and tends to look for the exit in any situation.

Peter Lemkin
05-21-2011, 02:03 PM
Helen, others, I'm not being critical of your informed speculation - only wondering why so little is being heard from this man and his neighbor who used to buy [they say] items for the OBL estate...;plus, there are described many who heard the helicopter crash and who then entered the compound - where are their statements?! Even more confusing, or misleading, are the statements by the one wife. Where are all the others who were living in the compound, and now in [?] Pakistani custody? The silence is deafening and smells of false-flag something....exactly what, is hard to say, at this point. I don't see the American MSM or Sheeple asking for what really happened - or why the official story is so strange and was/is continually changing. I sadly am also not aware of a great push on the part of the Pakistani public; although many more are skeptical to disbelieving of the 'American story'. Who wouldn't be - with all the lies we've been spoon-fed up until now?! :gossip: Much of the informed world public just believes America and other powerful nations and leaders lie - and there is little that can be done about that. This kind of paralyzing cynicism will destroy us [all of us], as easily as the evil done behind the false flag ops and wars. IMHO. Thank goodness for the few curious, questioning, and those not swallowing what is dished out by the Propaganda Ministries! :mexican:

Carsten Wiethoff
06-01-2011, 10:37 AM
From http://intelligencenews.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/01-730/#more-6553

A document provided to members of the US Navy SEALs who assassinated Osama bin Laden, was left behind in bin Laden’s compound by mistake, and has reportedly been accessed by The London Times. It contains remarkably detailed descriptions of the compound’s occupants and frequent visitors, including their ages and legal names, all the way down to bin Laden’s wives, children and grandchildren.
[more at the above link]

Jan Klimkowski
06-01-2011, 04:51 PM
A mirror version of the Sunday Times article.


THE US Navy SEALs who killed Osama bin Laden were carrying a pocket guide to the occupants of his compound that was so detailed it suggests the CIA may have had a mole inside.

The document, left behind in the compound and obtained by The Sunday Times, lists the names and ages of those who were present, including bin Laden's wives, children and grandchildren.

It details where they lived in the compound and when some of them arrived. It also suggests bin Laden had fathered twins in the compound. It refers to "two unidentified children" born this year to his youngest wife Amal, 28.

Even the clothing worn by the 54-year-old al-Qa'ida leader is described. "Always wears light-coloured shawal (sic) kameez with a dark vest," it says. "Occasionally wears light-coloured prayer cap."

The document raises new questions about how bin Laden was tracked down in what President Barack Obama described as "one of the greatest intelligence successes in American history".

After the mission Mr Obama said he had been "only 45 per cent to 55 per cent sure that bin Laden was even in the compound". The document, which is said to have been carried by all the SEALs on the mission, indicates US intelligence was certain of his presence.

US officials have said that information on the compound was put together over months from a variety of sources, including a nearby CIA safe-house set up as a listening post, imagery from satellites and unmanned drones, and reports from their own agents.

But there is far more detail than seems possible from these methods - unless US drone technology is far more sophisticated than hitherto realised.

Some Pakistani officials say the briefing points to the presence of a mole in the compound.

"I think someone from inside may have given information," said Rehman Malik, the Interior Minister and former head of Pakistan's Federal Investigation Agency. "If the Americans didn't have definitive information, they couldn't have gone straight to the room where bin Laden was."

One side of the document is printed with a familiar photograph of the al-Qa'ida leader as well as a new picture of Amal - only the second known photograph of her - and an age-enhanced image of his son Khalid. From the other side stares the flabby courier Arshad Khan, looking older than the 33 years stated. There is also a description of his brother, another courier.

The two elder Saudi wives have accused Amal, who is from Yemen, of betraying bin Laden, either by supplying information or by allowing herself to be tracked to the compound.

However, Glenn Carle, a CIA officer who interrogated another senior al-Qa'ida figure before retiring four years ago, said it was more likely the information had come from a variety of sources.

"Is it possible there was a source inside? Yes," he said. "But it's also possible this was built up from a mosaic of painstakingly put together information."

The document also bears details that suggest there may be more to the story of how bin Laden was tracked down.

It reveals for the first time that the two courier brothers moved to Abbottabad in 2006 from Mardan, a city about 100km west, that is still home to thousands of Afghan refugees.

It was in Mardan that Abu Faraj al-Libbi, the al-Qa'ida No 3, was captured in May 2005. According to his Guantanamo detainee assessment published on WikiLeaks, he was caught while waiting for a courier. He had previously been living in Abbottabad.

The Sunday Times has learnt that an employee at Abbottabad post office was tracked after he received suspiciously large cash transfers. He led investigators to Umar Patek, one of the Bali bombers, arrested in Abbottabad in January. All these arrests in the same area seem more than coincidence.

"It is quite possible a false or partial narrative was given of how bin Laden was found," said a CIA official. "Intelligence can only function in silence and in the dark - protecting source and method is very important."

The garrison town of Abbottabad might seem an odd place to choose for a hiding place, given its proximity to the prestigious Kakul military academy. Bin Laden's presence there has led US officials to accuse Pakistan's intelligence services of "complicity or incompetence".

The accusations, along with outrage that the US sent commandos on a raid inside Pakistan without informing them, have prompted a tide of angry anti-Americanism, particularly in Pakistan's military barracks.

Pakistani officials fear that among the intelligence trove taken from the compound will be found something compromising.

Yesterday deputy CIA chief Michael Morell and Marc Grossman, special envoy to the region, were holding meetings in Islamabad to work out concrete steps to crack down on terrorism.

It smells like either a limited hangout, or an active psyop, to me.

One interpretation is that the "pocket guide" was a secret operational briefing document provided to the SEALs and not intended to fall into the public domain as it contains details which could be used: a) to identify the intelligence sources - human, signal etc - used prior to the raid by the US; b) embarrassingly for the White House, its existence suggests Obama lied about the extent of US knowledge of the compound (eg "Obama said he had been "only 45 per cent to 55 per cent sure that bin Laden was even in the compound".")

That interpretation would likely lead to various assorted "intelligence sources" being used to muddy the story in the Sunday Times article - as indeed such intel sources do.

A second interpretation is that this "pocket guide" was deliberately planted - leaked - to the Sunday Times, as part of the broader War on Terror psyop agenda which has Pakistan firmly in its sights for destablization and balkanization.

There are even existing examples of this precise psyop technique being used on British broadsheet hacks - ye olde intrepid hack with keen vision finds key casus belli document shining in the rubble and breathlessly publishes scoop to rapturous applause......

I present a fine example of this shameful form:


The proof that Saddam worked with bin Laden

By Inigo Gilmore
(Filed: 27/04/2003)

Iraqi intelligence documents discovered in Baghdad by The Telegraph have provided the first evidence of a direct link between Osama bin Laden's al-Qa'eda terrorist network and Saddam Hussein's regime.

Papers found yesterday in the bombed headquarters of the Mukhabarat, Iraq's intelligence service, reveal that an al-Qa'eda envoy was invited clandestinely to Baghdad in March 1998.

The documents show that the purpose of the meeting was to establish a relationship between Baghdad and al-Qa'eda based on their mutual hatred of America and Saudi Arabia. The meeting apparently went so well that it was extended by a week and ended with arrangements being discussed for bin Laden to visit Baghdad.

The papers will be seized on by Washington as the first proof of what the United States has long alleged - that, despite denials by both sides, Saddam's regime had a close relationship with al-Qa'eda.

The Telegraph found the file on bin Laden inside a folder lying in the rubble of one of the rooms of the destroyed intelligence HQ. There are three pages, stapled together; two are on paper headed with the insignia and lettering of the Mukhabarat.

They show correspondence between Mukhabarat agencies over preparations for the visit of al-Qa'eda's envoy, who travelled to Iraq from Sudan, where bin Laden had been based until 1996. They disclose what Baghdad hopes to achieve from the meeting, which took place less than five months before bin Laden was placed at the top of America's most wanted list following the bombing of two US embassies in east Africa.

Perhaps aware of the sensitivities of the subject matter, Iraqi agents at some point clumsily attempted to mask out all references to bin Laden, using white correcting fluid. The dried fluid was removed to reveal the clearly legible name three times in the documents.

One paper is marked "Top Secret and Urgent". It is signed "MDA", a codename believed to be the director of one of the intelligence sections within the Mukhabarat, and dated February 19, 1998. It refers to the planned trip from Sudan by bin Laden's unnamed envoy and refers to the arrangements for his visit.

A letter with this document says the envoy is a trusted confidant of bin Laden. It adds: "According to the above, we suggest permission to call the Khartoum station [Iraq's intelligence office in Sudan] to facilitate the travel arrangements for the above-mentioned person to Iraq. And that our body carry all the travel and hotel costs inside Iraq to gain the knowledge of the message from bin Laden and to convey to his envoy an oral message from us to bin Laden."

The letter refers to al-Qa'eda's leader as an opponent of the Saudi Arabian regime and says that the message to convey to him through the envoy "would relate to the future of our relationship with him, bin Laden, and to achieve a direct meeting with him."

According to handwritten notes at the bottom of the page, the letter was passed on through another director in the Mukhabarat and on to the deputy director general of the intelligence service.

It recommends that "the deputy director general bring the envoy to Iraq because we may find in this envoy a way to maintain contacts with bin Laden". The deputy director general has signed the document. All of the signatories use codenames.

The other documents then confirm that the envoy travelled from Khartoum to Baghdad in March 1998, staying at al-Mansour Melia, a first-class hotel. It mentions that his visit was extended by a week. In the notes in a margin, a name "Mohammed F. Mohammed Ahmed" is mentioned, but it is not clear whether this is the the envoy or an agent.

Intriguingly, the Iraqis talk about sending back an oral message to bin Laden, perhaps aware of the risk of a written message being intercepted. However, the documents do not mention if any meeting took place between bin Laden and Iraqi officials.

The file contradicts the claims of Baghdad, bin Laden and many critics of the coalition that there was no link between the Iraqi regime and al-Qa'eda. One Western intelligence official contacted last night described the file as "sensational", adding: "Baghdad clearly sought out the meeting. The regime would have wanted it to happen in the capital as it's only there they would feel safe from surveillance by Western intelligence."

Over the past three weeks, The Telegraph has discovered various other intelligence files in the wrecked Mukhabarat building, including documents revealing how Russia passed on to Iraq details of private conversations between Tony Blair and Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, and how Germany held clandestine meetings with the regime.

A Downing Street spokesman said last night: "Since Saddam's fall a series of documents have come to light which will have to be fully assessed by the proper authorities over a period of time. We will certainly want to study these documents as part of that process to see if they shed new light on the relationship between Saddam's regime and al-Qa'eda.

Charles Drago
06-01-2011, 04:58 PM
The gulf between our deep political interpretations of world events and those of the vast majority of observers grows wider with each passing day.

It is now as if we are observing two different worlds.

The most powerful psyops are those which are self-regenerating -- which is to say, self-imposed.

Peter Lemkin
06-01-2011, 05:07 PM
No one will ever convince me that Hussein worked with bin Laden in any medium or major way.....that was psyop drek to prepare the way to War in Iraq, and perpetual war against ''terrorism" [i.e. all those we want to destroy so they don't show our morality and lies" - and who we can exploit for their resources]. All a phony ''Potemkin Village''....paid for by your tax dollars...and none of those of the rich [they do not pay taxes, after all].......

Ed Jewett
06-03-2011, 03:40 AM
The Official Final Chapter of bin Laden Myth is Aptly Named After a Myth
Posted on June 2, 2011 by willyloman
by Scott Creighton

A myth for a myth
Aren’t they clever? They named the final chapter of the bin Laden myth after a Roman mythological figure. That should earn more than a few insider’s snickers down at the old CFR building.
One month has passed since the last bin Laden distraction card was played and they have finally got the story ironed out enough to smooth over all the little wrinkles and declare this last version, or the next to the last version, as the “official” version of what happened and who better to put forward that new, almost complete, official version, than the Council on Foreign Relations.
It’s a stunning example of what I like to call Propaganda Multitasking. Light on facts, heavy on revision, and always keeping an eye on the next prize, Pakistan.
Reading Micah Zenko’s final summation of the official ending to the bin Laden myth is a bit like reading the final draft of a marketing strategy for a company in which all the various departments got to stick in little pat’s on their own backs and plugs for future pet projects.
While gratuitous self-promotion and historical revisionism is certainly the focus of the piece, Zenko also finds time to toss in some little tidbits to help the warmongers get set for an eventual invasion of Pakistan as well. This of course is the hallmark of well formatted propaganda; to simultaneously serve as many self interested agendas as possible. We’ll call it “Propaganda Multitasking”
To start off with, Zenko seems to want us to forget certain aspects of the story that we have come to understand as fact since their little Abbotabad improve took place a month ago.
Right off the bat he uses the now infamous “inside the war room” photo where all the “insiders” were supposed to be sitting around watching the whole thing go down. That’s the photo with Hillary Clinton holding her hand over her mouth as if she were watching something “shocking”. God, what a fine actor she is. She’s knows how to steal the spotlight, doesn’t she?
Turns out that it came to be understood that there was no live feed of the action (even though SEAL Team 6 had video cameras on their helmets) and Hillary had to make up some story about having her hand over her mouth to stifle a cough. The whole thing was a staged fraud, a PR move staged with the military guy in the middle 0f the shot busily working on his keyboard like he was “running the show” while the rest sat attentively and watched the action take place.
Cups were empty and dry, computers turned off, and they just happened to make sure to bring a lowly little professional photographer into the top secret war-room to “capture the moment”.
It’s “Wag the Dog” folks; the world where talentless TV producer scum think they can craft a reality show called “Let’s Make War”. If you want another couple of examples of their “craftsmanship” just check out the latest “news” from Libya or Syria. Completely fabricated bunk from “activists say’ journalism.
“… activists said… activists say… according to activists… images of children who ACTIVISTS SAY were killed… rights groups says…” MSNBC
Zenko goes on to tease his audience by writing “Peter Bergen would write “an immersive, definitive account of the operation that killed the world’s most wanted man.”” meaning that the official official version of the story is being worked on, by the great propagandist mouth-piece Peter Bergen, and boy oh boy, we can’t wait for that last installment of the bin Laden saga, can we?
One of the first things we learn about this “brave” venture is that the operation itself was called “Neptune’s Spear”.
I guess “Neptune” tested better than the original “Geronimo”, tended to piss off fewer Native Americans, so they went with that one. After all, how many people live in the sea? Maybe they called it “Neptune’s Spear” because they rushed as fast as they could in a helicopter to cross over 75% of Pakistan in less than 9 hours so that they could dump Osama’s body in the ocean as an offering to Neptune himself. Who knows.
I do know this much; Neptune didn’t have a spear, he carried a trident.
But… what do you expect from marketing guys.
I also know that the term “Geronimo” is never mentioned in Zenko’s article. Neither is this for that matter:
“Counterterrorism chief John Brennan told reporters that while bin Laden had vowed to go down fighting, in his last moments alive the master terrorist hid behind a woman.” ABC News
The next little tidbit of information are the names of the two brothers who supposedly led the CIA to bin Laden. They of course, were killed, like everyone else, so that we won’t have to bother with trials or investigations or all that tedious crap. Kinda like this guy…
The brothers were Abrar and Ibrahim Said Ahmad and they were living in this squalid “compound” (with shit buckets in the hallways) with their assorted family members, and a billionaire who was wanted by every intelligence agency on the planet, with a 25 million dollar “no questions asked” price-tag on his head.
hmmm…..
Let me see if I got this straight… a wanted billionaire who whereabouts were worth $25 million US, was hanging out with these two impoverished brothers in this shit-hole that your average crackhead wouldn’t be caught dead in? And the two brothers also had families living in the shit holes as well, and NEITHER of them ever figured out that they could provide a better living for their families by turning in the old stingy billionaire?
Anyway, that’s the story, and don’t expect Mr. Zenko to provide any details as to how they came to figure out who these brothers were, because that story hasn’t quite been ironed out yet. Rather, he does say that their identities became known to the CIA thanks to the good old fashioned torture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Faraj al-Libbi.
You see what he did there? Torture DOES work (Propaganda Multi-Tasking at it’s best… this guy is so worth the money, huh?)
Zenko goes on to toss in bits and pieces of propaganda like Obama rejected a B-2 strike to get bin Laden because they couldn’t get the DNA “proof’ and it would cause too many civilian casualties. I guess the civilians in Libya are immune to B-2 bombing strikes. Let’s hope they’re also immune to British bunker busters.
Very reassuring knowing that there are at least a few civilians in Pakistan that President Peace Prize would rather not bomb to death. They’re working on it at least.
To bad for those three grandchildren Obama bombed (just one day before the glorious leader decided to run this little PR operation) at a family gathering in a residential neighborhood in Libya. But that is justified as well because President Peace Prize was trying to illegally assassinate the leader of another country, so those dead kids don’t count.
Nowhere in Zenko’s revisionist version of operation Neptune’s Spear does he talk about prolonged fire fights or people hiding behind women or Photoshopped photos being shown to senators or even contrived burials at sea.
Gone are all the questionable aspects of the story and what is left is nothing but praise for Obama’s courage in the face of this operation.
Ironically, and not just a little cutesy, is the fact that they named this final chapter of the bin Laden mythology “Neptune’s Spear”. Neptune of course being a Roman myth. Bin Laden even looks a bit like old Neptune, doesn’t he?

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/the-official-final-chapter-of-bin-laden-myth-is-aptly-named-after-a-myth/

Peter Lemkin
06-15-2011, 12:09 PM
Pakistanis arrest five CIA informants
Sources helped find bin Laden, US officials say
By Eric Schmitt and Mark Mazzetti
New York Times / June 15, 2011

WASHINGTON — Pakistan’s top military spy agency has arrested some of the Pakistani informants who fed information to the Central Intelligence Agency in the months leading up to the raid that led to the death of Osama bin Laden, according to US officials.

Pakistan’s detention of five CIA informants, including a Pakistani army major who officials said copied the license plates of cars visiting bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, is the latest evidence of the fractured relationship between the United States and Pakistan. It comes as the Obama administration is seeking Pakistan’s support in brokering an endgame in the war in Afghanistan.

At a closed briefing last week, members of the Senate Intelligence Committee asked Michael J. Morell, the deputy CIA director, to rate Pakistan’s cooperation with the United States on counterterrorism operations, on a scale of 1 to 10.

“Three,’’ Morell replied, according to officials familiar with the exchange.

The fate of the CIA informants arrested in Pakistan is unclear, but US officials said that CIA director Leon E. Panetta raised the issue when he traveled to Islamabad last week to meet with Pakistani military and intelligence officers.

Some in Washington see the arrests as illustrative of the disconnect between Pakistani and US priorities at a time when they are supposed to be allies in the fight against Al Qaeda — instead of hunting down the support network that allowed bin Laden to live comfortably for years, the Pakistani authorities are arresting those who assisted in the raid.

The bin Laden raid and recent attacks by militants in Pakistan have been blows to the country’s military, a revered institution. Some officials and outside specialists said the military is mired in its worst crisis of confidence in decades.

US officials cautioned that Morell’s comments about Pakistani support was a snapshot of the current relationship and did not represent the administration’s overall assessment.

“We have a strong relationship with our Pakistani counterparts and work through issues when they arise,’’ said Marie E. Harf, a CIA spokeswoman. “Director Panetta had productive meetings last week in Islamabad. It’s a crucial partnership.’’

Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States, said in a brief interview that the CIA and the Pakistani spy agency “are working out mutually agreeable terms for their cooperation in fighting the menace of terrorism. It is not appropriate for us to get into the details at this stage.’’

Over the past several weeks the Pakistani military has been distancing itself from US intelligence and counterterrorism operations against militant groups in Pakistan. This has angered many in Washington who believe that bin Laden’s death has shaken Al Qaeda and that there is now an opportunity to further weaken the terrorist organization.

But in recent months, dating approximately to when a CIA contractor killed two Pakistanis on a street in the eastern city of Lahore in January, US officials said that Pakistani spies from the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, known as the ISI, have been generally unwilling to carry out surveillance operations for the CIA. The Pakistanis have also threatened to further restrict the drone flights.

It is the future of the drone program that is a particular worry for the CIA. US officials said that during his meetings in Pakistan last week, Panetta was particularly forceful about trying to get Pakistani officials to allow armed drones to fly over even wider areas in the northwest tribal regions.

The CIA is already preparing for the worst: relocating some of the drones from Pakistan to a base in Afghanistan, where they can take off and fly east across the mountains and into the tribal areas, where terrorist groups find safe haven.

Jan Klimkowski
06-15-2011, 05:54 PM
Pakistanis arrest five CIA informants
Sources helped find bin Laden, US officials say

That entire article is completely through the looking glass.

I couldn't even begin to engage meaningfully with the busted psyop fantasies taken seriously in the piece.

When I arrived at the CIA demand that Pakistan allow US drones to fly in Pakistan to kill Pakistani men, women and children, I had to reach for the hookah. :mexican:

Bernice Moore
06-16-2011, 01:33 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/06/15/pakistans-secret-service-arrests-5-cia-informants-who-spied-on-bin-laden/


Pakistan's Secret Service Arrests 5 CIA Informants Who Spied on Bin Laden

Bernice Moore
07-12-2011, 03:20 PM
CIA 'set up fake vaccination programme to capture Osama bin Laden's DNA' (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8631420/CIA-set-up-fake-vaccination-programme-to-capture-Osama-bin-Ladens-DNA.html&ct=ga&cad=CAcQAhgAIAAoATAAOABA3bzu8ARIAVAAWABiBWVuLVVT&cd=zPk93M3LwbQ&usg=AFQjCNGw9otRA09Y3y5gpqM16T47Qv9JSA)
Telegraph.co.uk
The CIA set up a fake vaccination programme in Pakistan as it tried to confirm where Osama bin Laden was hiding, it has been claimed. By Nick Allen, Rob Crilly in Islamabad Having traced a bin Laden courier to a walled compound in the town of Abottabad

Bernice Moore
07-12-2011, 03:26 PM
AP Interview: Ex-CIA chief on al-Qaida after Osama (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hsUtP1UYbgVGjg9HSslSuoQrBLcg%3FdocId%3D029df 84f816b4c1f907fdad7862701d1&ct=ga&cad=CAcQAhgAIAAoATABOAFA3bzu8ARIAVAAWABiBWVuLVVT&cd=zPk93M3LwbQ&usg=AFQjCNHSiS4Oe6qcnpo3xeQwjUmvXfkjlA)
The Associated Press
The 66-year-old Hayden, a retired four-star Air Force general, served as NSA director 1999-2005 and as CIA director 2006-2009. The NSA oversees phone-tapping and other electronic surveillance at home and abroad using the warrantless powers of the ...

Ed Jewett
07-18-2011, 11:27 PM
White House Obama bin Laden Kill Show Gaps

"... there has been no documentary or photographic substantiation of the bin Laden raid, sea burial and after-action evaluation. Instead there has been elaborate and sustained publicity based on little more than the Obama announcement, his follow-up interviews and comments, the CIA-NGA maps and diagrams, highlighted Obama thanks to participants in, and planners of, the raid, and cursory assurances by national security officials that the claims are authentic -- and heroic. A campaign of carefully crafted disclosures to the media appears underway, again without documentary substantiation to fill in the extensive gaps in the triumphant story of the decade....."

http://cryptome.org/info/wh-obl-gaps/wh-obl-gaps.htm


Follow, as well, the story of "CIA John" at Cryptome...

Ed Jewett
08-04-2011, 05:54 AM
Getting Access to the Secrets of the Osama Bin Ladin Kill

http://cryptome.org/0005/schmidle/schmidle-access.htm

James H. Fetzer
08-04-2011, 06:28 AM
Ed,

What proof do you have that he was killed in this raid? You are committing a brazen example of begging the question by taking for granted that he was still alive to be killed. Try David Ray Griffin, OSAMA BIN LADEN: DEAD OR ALIVE? if you care about the truth.


Getting Access to the Secrets of the Osama Bin Ladin Kill

http://cryptome.org/0005/schmidle/schmidle-access.htm

Ed Jewett
08-04-2011, 07:12 AM
Ed,

What proof do you have that he was killed in this raid? You are committing a brazen example of begging the question by taking for granted that he was still alive to be killed. Try David Ray Griffin, OSAMA BIN LADEN: DEAD OR ALIVE? if you care about the truth.


Getting Access to the Secrets of the Osama Bin Ladin Kill

http://cryptome.org/0005/schmidle/schmidle-access.htm


Dr. Fetzer, you mis-read me. I posted the link because it's perhaps a pathway to follow the propaganda and the myth-making. I cawed in laughter when the news of his death and burial at sea washed across the bows of the media and the sheeple. I come from the world of para-medicine and for years typed (as my source of income) the acute care admissions, histories and final summaries of medical specialists including nephrologists, so I have a better handle on the life expectancy of someone needing dialysis than most. Chronic renal disease is, eventually and necessarily, a fatal disease, and the fact that this man lived in a cave in Afghanistan requiring periodic dialysis without the help of a major state-based entity is laughable on the surface; it requires care, high-end surgical cleanliness, and is frequented with complications, sequelae and co-morbidities and the need for vascular repair or alteration.

Behind that, also available through Cryptome, is the story of "John", the operative seen in White House photos who purportedly was involved in the "kill". As always, there are differing opinions on what really happened and who was involved, but I take a Salandrian approach and step back and look at the long view. Also at Cryptome is a survey of the extent of the publicity given by the current White House administration to the Situation Room.

OBL and the mujahadeen have been tools of the empire for a long time, and it was perfectly alright to kill a man already long dead in order to "bounce" the propaganda around 9/11 and the Global War of Terror.

Ed Jewett
08-05-2011, 03:49 AM
To follow-up on the above (my curiosity having been triggered), I found three web entries that addressed bin Laden's health. Caveat lector.

The first is here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread702774/pg1

The second is here: http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/a_binladen.htm

Doctor Zebra is unidentified, says he is a real doctor, and some careful perusal of the entire site might warrant a good guess as to who he is.

A third is here: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/224981.php

Here is the search at History Commons' 9/11 Timeline (http://www.historycommons.org/searchResults.jsp?project=911_project&searchtext=bin+Laden+health&events=on&entities=off&articles=off&topics=off&timelines=off&projects=off&titles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go) using the words "bin Laden health" (8 events found, one of which is irrelevant to the question, being a search glitch, the last noting Robert Baer in late 2009).

This photo seems obviously PhotoShopped. (http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/nucleus/media/21/20060821-binladendialysis.jpg) What I am looking for is a photo of the man with an obvious fistula (http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=1237&q=dialysis+fistula+pictures&gbv=2&oq=dialysis+fistula&aq=2&aqi=g3g-m1&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=154126l158427l1l162148l16l15l0l2l2l0l196l13 71l7.6l13l0). A fistula is something a dialysis pateint would go to great ends to protect from trauma, infection, etc.

Here's a short list of six complications during hemodialysis (http://classes.kumc.edu/cahe/respcared/cybercas/dialysis/francomp.html), one of which at least correlates with observations noted above as well as my own experience of having to lie down as a result of arrhythmias when I had untreated atrial fibrillation.

"Various problems (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1918879-overview) are related to vascular access in patients on hemodialysis and to abdominal catheters in patients using continuous ambulatory peritoneal dialysis (CAPD). These vascular access complications are similar to those seen in any patient with a vascular surgical procedure (eg, bleeding, local or disseminated intravascular infections [DIC], vessel [graft] occlusion). The native peripheral vascular system is also affected with higher rates of amputation and revascularization procedures, and a peritoneal dialysis catheter subjects patients to the risks of peritonitis and local infection, because the catheter acts as a foreign body and provides a portal of entry for pathogens from the external environment."

Here is a seven-page pdf on the complications of dialysis;pay attention to figure 7.5 and compare to credible photographs. (http://www.kidneyatlas.org/book5/adk5-07.pdf)

Here is another good article on complications. (http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/renal/renal%20curr%20pdfs/hemodialysis%20complications.pdf)

Here ( http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/k/kidney_dialysis/prognosis.htm) are the 1, 2 and 5-year survival rates for someone on dialysis: 77.8%, 62.9% and 9%.

Ed Jewett
08-05-2011, 03:56 AM
The Mysterious Death of Osama bin Laden: Creating Evidence Where There Is None

by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

The New Yorker has published a story planted on Nicholas Schmidle by unidentified sources who claim to be familiar with the alleged operation that murdered Osama bin Laden.

There is no useful information in the story. Its purpose seems simply to explain away or cover up holes in the original story, principally why did the Seals murder an unarmed, unresisting Osama bin Laden whose capture would have resulted in a goldmine of terrorist information and whose show trial would have rescued the government’s crumbling 9/11 story?

The gullible Schmidle tells us: “‘There was never any question of detaining or capturing him--it wasn’t a split-second decision. No one wanted detainees,’ the special-operations officer told me.” In other words, the SEALs murdered bin Laden, because the US government did not want detainees, not because trigger-happy stupid SEALs destroyed a font of terrorist information.

Why did the SEALS dump bin Laden’s body in the ocean instead of producing the evidence to a skeptical world?

No real explanation, just that SEALS had done the same thing to other victims. Schmidle writes: “All along, the SEALs had planned to dump bin Laden’s corpse into the sea--a blunt way of ending the bin Laden myth.” But before they did so, the US checked with an unidentified Saudi intelligence operative, who allegedly replied, “Your plan sounds like a good one.”

I mean, really.

After all of Sy Hersh’s New Yorker revelations of US government lies and plots, one can understand the pressure that might have been applied to the New Yorker to publish this fairy tale. But what is extraordinary is that there was a real story that Schmidle and the New Yorker could have investigated.

In the immediate aftermath of bin Laden’s alleged murder by the SEALs, Pakistani TV interviewed the next door neighbor to bin Laden’s alleged compound. Someone supplied the video with an English translation running at the bottom of the video. According to the translation, the next door neighbor, Mr. Bashir, said that he watched the entire operation from the roof of his house. There were 3 helicopters. Only 1 landed. About a dozen men got out and entered the house. They shortly returned and boarded the helicopter. When the helicopter lifted off it exploded, killing all aboard. Mr. Bashir reports seeing bodies and pieces of bodies all over.

The US government acknowledges that it lost a helicopter, but claims no one was hurt. Obviously, as there were no further landings, if everyone was killed as Mr. Bashir reports, there was no body to be dumped into the ocean.

A real investigation would begin with Mr. Bashir’s interview. Was he actually saying what the English translation reported? I have not been able to find the interview with the English translation, but I believe this is the interview that I saw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0vo-L3VACs

Surely there is a qualified interpreter who can tell us what Mr. Bashir is saying. If the English translation that I saw is not a hoax, then we are presented with a story totally different from the one the government told us and repeated again through Mr. Schmidle.

If the English translation of Mr. Bashir’s interview is correct, one would think that there would be some interest on the part of US news organizations and on the part of the intelligence committees in Congress to question Mr. Bashir and his neighbors, many of whom are also interviewed on Pakistani TV saying that they have lived in Abbottabad all their lives and are absolutely certain that Osama bin Laden was not among them.

Mr. Schmidle goes to lengths to describe the SEALs’ weapons, although his story makes it clear that no weapons were needed as bin Laden is described as “unarmed” and undefended. The “startled” bin Laden didn’t even hear the helicopters or all the SEALs coming up the stairs. In addition to all his fatal illnesses which most experts believe killed him a decade ago, bin Laden must have been deaf as neighbors report that the sound of the helicopters was “intense.”

When Pakistanis on the scene in Abbottabad report a totally different story from the one that reaches us second and third hand from unidentified operatives speaking to reporters in the US who have never been to Abbottabad, shouldn’t someone qualified look into the story?

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25898

Keith Millea
08-05-2011, 05:08 AM
Ed:

Yes,let's bury this dialysis myth once and for all.It was a stupid story and so many believed it.Anyone who knows anything about dialysis had a good laugh at that one.

:pointlaugh:
:sheep:

James H. Fetzer
08-05-2011, 01:12 PM
Ed,

Thanks for that clarification. Some of what you have linked is obviously
planted, such as most of what is cited in the ATS piece (which cites none
of its sources nor their dates of publication). Here is a nice related piece
by Nicholas Kollerstrom, an historian of science from the UK, which I like:

"Osama bin Laden (1957-2001)
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-1957-2001.html

Not only do I agree with Paul Craig Roberts, but I posted about a dozen or
so articles about this at the time on my facebook page. Perhaps I've cited
most of them here, but they included that the "photo op" with Obama and
Hillary was staged, that there was no live coverage, that the figure in the
photo holding a clicker and watching TV was the owner of the home, not
Osama, that DNA identification so quickly would have been impossible, and
more. Burial at sea, by the way, is NOT an Islamic custom, because it is
disrespectful of the body, allowing it to be eaten by fish and crustaceans.

Jim


The Mysterious Death of Osama bin Laden: Creating Evidence Where There Is None

by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

The New Yorker has published a story planted on Nicholas Schmidle by unidentified sources who claim to be familiar with the alleged operation that murdered Osama bin Laden.

There is no useful information in the story. Its purpose seems simply to explain away or cover up holes in the original story, principally why did the Seals murder an unarmed, unresisting Osama bin Laden whose capture would have resulted in a goldmine of terrorist information and whose show trial would have rescued the government’s crumbling 9/11 story?

The gullible Schmidle tells us: “‘There was never any question of detaining or capturing him--it wasn’t a split-second decision. No one wanted detainees,’ the special-operations officer told me.” In other words, the SEALs murdered bin Laden, because the US government did not want detainees, not because trigger-happy stupid SEALs destroyed a font of terrorist information.

Why did the SEALS dump bin Laden’s body in the ocean instead of producing the evidence to a skeptical world?

No real explanation, just that SEALS had done the same thing to other victims. Schmidle writes: “All along, the SEALs had planned to dump bin Laden’s corpse into the sea--a blunt way of ending the bin Laden myth.” But before they did so, the US checked with an unidentified Saudi intelligence operative, who allegedly replied, “Your plan sounds like a good one.”

I mean, really.

After all of Sy Hersh’s New Yorker revelations of US government lies and plots, one can understand the pressure that might have been applied to the New Yorker to publish this fairy tale. But what is extraordinary is that there was a real story that Schmidle and the New Yorker could have investigated.

In the immediate aftermath of bin Laden’s alleged murder by the SEALs, Pakistani TV interviewed the next door neighbor to bin Laden’s alleged compound. Someone supplied the video with an English translation running at the bottom of the video. According to the translation, the next door neighbor, Mr. Bashir, said that he watched the entire operation from the roof of his house. There were 3 helicopters. Only 1 landed. About a dozen men got out and entered the house. They shortly returned and boarded the helicopter. When the helicopter lifted off it exploded, killing all aboard. Mr. Bashir reports seeing bodies and pieces of bodies all over.

The US government acknowledges that it lost a helicopter, but claims no one was hurt. Obviously, as there were no further landings, if everyone was killed as Mr. Bashir reports, there was no body to be dumped into the ocean.

A real investigation would begin with Mr. Bashir’s interview. Was he actually saying what the English translation reported? I have not been able to find the interview with the English translation, but I believe this is the interview that I saw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0vo-L3VACs

Surely there is a qualified interpreter who can tell us what Mr. Bashir is saying. If the English translation that I saw is not a hoax, then we are presented with a story totally different from the one the government told us and repeated again through Mr. Schmidle.

If the English translation of Mr. Bashir’s interview is correct, one would think that there would be some interest on the part of US news organizations and on the part of the intelligence committees in Congress to question Mr. Bashir and his neighbors, many of whom are also interviewed on Pakistani TV saying that they have lived in Abbottabad all their lives and are absolutely certain that Osama bin Laden was not among them.

Mr. Schmidle goes to lengths to describe the SEALs’ weapons, although his story makes it clear that no weapons were needed as bin Laden is described as “unarmed” and undefended. The “startled” bin Laden didn’t even hear the helicopters or all the SEALs coming up the stairs. In addition to all his fatal illnesses which most experts believe killed him a decade ago, bin Laden must have been deaf as neighbors report that the sound of the helicopters was “intense.”

When Pakistanis on the scene in Abbottabad report a totally different story from the one that reaches us second and third hand from unidentified operatives speaking to reporters in the US who have never been to Abbottabad, shouldn’t someone qualified look into the story?

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25898

Ed Jewett
08-05-2011, 04:07 PM
The operative (pardon the double pun) paragraph from Kollerstrom's piece:

"In July 2001 he was residing for a week in an American hospital in Dubai to treat his kidney trouble, as reported by the French paper Le Figaro. He had an operation on the 4th. This story was reported in Le Monde and the Guardian on 1st November but denied by the CIA and also reported by John Snow on Channel 4 News. Snow first confirmed the story with the British doctor in Dubai who treated Bin Laden: source Martin Summers, of the London 9/11 Sceptics and he there met CIA station chief Larry Mitchell on 12th July. Many members of the Bin Laden family came to visit him - ‘There goes the story that he’s a black sheep!’ was Mike Ruppert’s laconic comment. He flew off on the 14th in a private jet. We do not hear about Bin Laden him again until September 10th, when he reappears in a military hospital in Rawalpindi in Pakistan – with some military protection - again for kidney dialysis (Nafeez Ahmed, The War on Freedom, How and Why America was Attacked September 11, 2001, 2002, p.223; Thierry Meyssian, 9/11 The big Lie, 2002, p. 107.)"

Keith Millea
08-05-2011, 05:05 PM
Let's be clear.People on dialysis are at end stage kidney failure.Their kidneys no longer function to cleanse toxins from the body.This means 3 days per week hooked up to the machine.Now,not only does this require a totally sterile environment,but other considerations need to be taken into account.

An individual on dialysis also requires that blood lab tests are constant.It is absolutley necessary to monitor things such as,potassium and phosphorus levels,red blood cell counts,etc.There is so much more involved,can anyone really believe the dialysis story?Only if your eyes are wide shut.............

I can't tell you when OBL died,but I can assure you,that he was not hooking up to a dialysis machine in that hellhole part of the world.Just ain't happening............

Ed Jewett
08-05-2011, 07:10 PM
We'd have to ask several questions.

1) Precisely what kind of dialysis was he on if he were on it? There are multiple types: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialysis Yes, we share a bias about Western medicine and Western technologies and Western standards for surgical cleanliness. Certainly a consistent lack of attention to the process can increase morbidity and mortality. But, as ntoed in the Wikipedia entry, the process was invented by jury-rigging: "Due to the scarcity of available resources, Kolff had to improvise and build the initial machine using sausage casings, beverage cans, a washing machine and various other items which were available at the time."

2) What is the level of sophistication in terms of nursing, para-medicine and medicine available to the mujahadeen or others in remote rugged parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan (or in urban settings)? What is known about the cadre of people who traveled with bin Laden? Any combatant worth his salt has to have a system/knowledge of medical care/health maintenance or he won't maintain a viable unit for long.

3) What would the purpose be, from the perspective of the US intelligence community and its allies, in floating a false story about OBL's need for dialysis if it weren't true? Was it, instead, a way of perhaps flushing out (pardon the pun) information and/or informants about his whereabouts? And if it was a false story, did the correspondents noted in the article posted by Fetzer participate? Are they known to be fronts for floating disinformation?

There is much disinformation circulating; that is a given. But it can't all be disinformation; otherwise there would be no credibility; the known formulae for mixing truth and disinformation are in the magnitude of the 80/20 rule, not at the low end of the spectrum.

4) Did the purpose of the propaganda/intelligence approach change over the years? What served and worked pre-9/911, circa 9/11, post 9/11 and circa "OBL death raid" may be entirely different packages.

Everything about Ossama bin Laden is shrouded, but perhaps we should be careful in buying into the notion that the Muslim world is incapable of understanding methods of treatment for disease.

David Butler
08-06-2011, 04:24 PM
Apparently the SEALS killed in the Chinook shot down today were from Seal Team Six - The unit that killed Osama Bin Laden....Something about dead men telling no tales perhaps ?

Peter Lemkin
08-06-2011, 04:31 PM
We'd have to ask several questions.

1) Precisely what kind of dialysis was he on if he were on it? There are multiple types: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialysis Yes, we share a bias about Western medicine and Western technologies and Western standards for surgical cleanliness. Certainly a consistent lack of attention to the process can increase morbidity and mortality. But, as ntoed in the Wikipedia entry, the process was invented by jury-rigging: "Due to the scarcity of available resources, Kolff had to improvise and build the initial machine using sausage casings, beverage cans, a washing machine and various other items which were available at the time."

2) What is the level of sophistication in terms of nursing, para-medicine and medicine available to the mujahadeen or others in remote rugged parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan (or in urban settings)? What is known about the cadre of people who traveled with bin Laden? Any combatant worth his salt has to have a system/knowledge of medical care/health maintenance or he won't maintain a viable unit for long.

3) What would the purpose be, from the perspective of the US intelligence community and its allies, in floating a false story about OBL's need for dialysis if it weren't true? Was it, instead, a way of perhaps flushing out (pardon the pun) information and/or informants about his whereabouts? And if it was a false story, did the correspondents noted in the article posted by Fetzer participate? Are they known to be fronts for floating disinformation?

There is much disinformation circulating; that is a given. But it can't all be disinformation; otherwise there would be no credibility; the known formulae for mixing truth and disinformation are in the magnitude of the 80/20 rule, not at the low end of the spectrum.

4) Did the purpose of the propaganda/intelligence approach change over the years? What served and worked pre-9/911, circa 9/11, post 9/11 and circa "OBL death raid" may be entirely different packages.

Everything about Ossama bin Laden is shrouded, but perhaps we should be careful in buying into the notion that the Muslim world is incapable of understanding methods of treatment for disease.

Forget it Ed. On Al Jazeera they have a very good interview in their program 'I knew Bin Laden' - one by a physician who met and lived for a week [week!] with Bin Laden in the middle of the period he was supposed [supposed!] to be on dialysis and he said he never saw any such equipment, nor was the man anything but hail and hardy - drinking very sugared tea~ He said it was bullshit. It obviously is. It might [might] have been the excuse used to get Bin Ladin into a US Military hospital once for debriefing...just sayin'

Ed Jewett
08-06-2011, 08:25 PM
‘More Than 20 Navy SEALS From the Unit that Killed Osama bin Laden’ Die in Helicopter Crash

August 6th, 2011
Via: MSNBC:

A NATO helicopter crash in Afghanistan on Saturday killing 31 U.S. special-forces troops, including more than 20 Navy SEALS from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden, and 7 Afghan commandos.
It was the deadliest single combat incident for American troops in 10 years of war, according to an American official.
The operators from SEAL Team Six were flown by a crew of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regimen, according to U.S. officials who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because families are still being notified of the loss of their loved ones.
One source said the team was thought to include 22 SEALs, three Air Force air controllers, seven Afghan Army troops, a dog and his handler, and a civilian interpreter, plus the helicopter crew.
The sources thought this was the largest single loss of life ever for SEAL Team Six, known as the Naval Special Warfare Development Group.

http://cryptogon.com/?p=23962

Magda Hassan
08-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Was just going to post this. Now there are no more of the inconvenient witnesses to say what did or did not happen to OBL.

Ed Jewett
08-07-2011, 12:56 AM
Pakistan TV Report Contradicts US Claim of Bin Laden’s Death

By Paul Craig Roberts

August 06, 2011 "Information Clearing House" -- In my recent article, “Creating Evidence Where There Is None,” about the alleged killing of Osama bin Laden by a commando team of US Seals in Abbottabad, Pakistan, I provided a link to a Pakistani National TV interview with Muhammad Bashir, who lives next door to the alleged “compound” of Osama bin Laden. I described the story that Bashir gave of the “attack” and its enormous difference from the one told by the US government. In Bashair’s account, every member of the landing party and anyone brought from the house died when the helicopter exploded on lift-off. I wrote that a qualified person could easily provide a translation of the interview, but that no American print or TV news organization had investigated Bashir’s account.

An attorney with a British Master of Laws degree in international law and diplomacy, who was born in Pakistan, provided the translation below. He writes: “I have no problem with being identified as the translator, but would prefer to remain anonymous.”

The translator provides these definitions and clarifications:


More and an embedded video here:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28772.htm

Ed Jewett
08-07-2011, 04:13 AM
In re: posts #359 and 360 in which I posted a link from Cryptome [ Getting Access to the Secrets of the Osama Bin Laden Kill: http://cryptome.org/0005/schmidle/schmidle-access.htm ] and Dr. Fetzer questioned the inference...

Here we have more (the article itself hinted at this) on this fellow Schmidle


Funding Nicholas Schmidle

Financial sponsors of Nicholas Schmidle, Institute of Current World Affairs (ICWA -- founded in 1932) and New America Foundation (NAF -- founded in 1998), both DC-based, are among the dozens, perhaps hudnreds, of non-profits involved in international and domestic affairs who fund scholars, researchers, journalists and writers to travel and report.

Schmidle is an interesting person. He did exceptional reporting from Pakistan while being funded by ICWA, visited some of the most dangerous areas of the country, and was booted by Pakistan in early 2008 for unexplained reasons...."

Much more at the link: http://cryptome.org/0005/schmidle-funds/schmidle-funds.htm

Ed Jewett
08-07-2011, 04:56 AM
Navy SEAL Team 6 members and others killed in Afghanistan chopper crash.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/08/06/general-us-us-afghanistan-seals_8606169.html

"U.S. officials say they believe that none of those who died in the crash participated in the bin Laden raid but were from the same unit that carried out the bin Laden mission." Either way, the SEALS would have known about the hoax Bin Laden assassination -- another Hollywood drama brought to the world by Obama's spinners of fiction. The SEALS were safer in Abbotabad on their staged mission than they are in fending off the CIA hit teams that will eliminate all of them until there are no more witnesses left.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

Jan Klimkowski
08-07-2011, 12:24 PM
Cleaning house.

Like the Mull of Kintyre (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?86-The-Mystery-of-the-1994-Mull-of-Kintyre-Chinook-Crash&highlight=kintyre) Chinook crash in which much of the British intelligence hierarchy in Northern Ireland - particularly MI5, RUC Special Branch and British military intelligence, died,

Ed Jewett
08-07-2011, 05:24 PM
Cleaning house.

Like the Mull of Kintyre (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?86-The-Mystery-of-the-1994-Mull-of-Kintyre-Chinook-Crash&highlight=kintyre) Chinook crash in which much of the British intelligence hierarchy in Northern Ireland - particularly MI5, RUC Special Branch and British military intelligence, died,

Interesting. Thanks for the retrospective for those of us on this side of the pond.

Carsten Wiethoff
08-08-2011, 11:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTGiYAMBl1M&feature=player_embedded

Magda Hassan
08-08-2011, 11:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTGiYAMBl1M&feature=player_embedded
:rofl::pointlaugh::dance:

Ed Jewett
08-09-2011, 04:41 AM
Luvit. Please share this kind of dry English wit as often as possible; we are starving here in the States for a bit of sanity.

Magda Hassan
08-09-2011, 07:50 AM
Actually, it is dry Australian wit. And if we are going to be really picky, dry New Zealand wit. John Clarke is a long time resident and local institution here but born in NZ. I'm pretty sure that Bryan Dawe, his partner, is born here. More here (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/clarkedawe.htm).

Jan Klimkowski
08-10-2011, 05:48 PM
Who do you believe?


Taliban who shot down Chinook helicopter killed in US air strike

General John Allen says F-16 strike killed those responsible for deaths of 38 US navy Seals and colleagues in crash

Staff and agencies guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/10/taliban-chinook-helicopter-crash-killed), Wednesday 10 August 2011 16.52 BST

A US air strike has killed the Taliban militants believed to be responsible for shooting down a Chinook helicopter, killing 38 US and Afghan troops, the top commander in Afghanistan said.

Marine Corps General John Allen told a Pentagon news conference that forces learned where the insurgents had fled to and killed them in an early morning F-16 air strike on Monday.

A separate statement from Afghanistan said the strike killed Taliban leader Mullah Mohibullah and the insurgent who fired the rocket-propelled grenade (RPG) that downed the Chinook helicopter. It said the two men were attempting to flee the country.

Thirty US troops – most of them elite navy Seals – were killed in the crash, the single deadliest incident for American troops in the Afghan war. Eight Afghans were also killed.

President Barack Obama flew to Dover Air Force Base on Tuesday to watch the arrival of the remains of those killed. The military has launched an investigation into the incident.

The Chinook was shot down while attempting to come to the aid of a team of soldiers engaged in a firefight. They were on a mission to capture a senior Taliban leader in the Tangi valley responsible for a series of attacks, including the planting of roadside bombs. Allen acknowledged that the main Taliban leader sought in the operation was still at large.

The general defended the decision to send in the elite team, saying it was deemed necessary at the time to go after "elements that were escaping" from an ongoing operation to target the Taliban leader.

"We committed a force to contain that element from getting out. And, of course, in the process of that, the aircraft was struck by an RPG and crashed," Allen told Pentagon reporters via video-conference from Kabul.

"We've run more than a couple of thousand of these night operations over the last year, and this is the only occasion where this has occurred," he said. "The fact that we lost this aircraft is not … a decision point as to whether we'll use this aircraft in the future."

While officials believe the helicopter was shot down by an RPG, Allen said the military's investigation into the crash will also review whether small-arms fire or other causes contributed to the crash.

Allen said the subsequent F-16 air strike killed the insurgents believed to be behind the attack – an assertion the Taliban immediately challenged.

In Afghanistan Zabihullah Mujahid, a spokesman for the Taliban, said: "The person who shot down the helicopter is alive and he is in another province operating against [foreign forces]," he told Reuters by telephone from an undisclosed location

Ed Jewett
08-10-2011, 06:44 PM
I haven't tried to follow every clue and nuance in this little tale, but it is very evident that there was a lot of confusion early on -- natural, given time zone differences and the distant war zone -- but the disarray that seems telling is the scramble to make sure everyone at the top gets on the same page in terms of explaining what did or did not happen. One of the elements in this and other tales is the natural and woefully erroneous and stupid assumption that a bunch of "others" who wrap towels around their head and talk funny and worship differently can't summon some gut-level, functional battlefield intelligence and strategy that can take down the more technologically-sophisticated weaponry of an advanced civilization. Was it an INSIDE JOB? Let's watch and see. Perhaps the helicopter was allowed to enter the trap knowingly... shades of Drago's Custer thesis?.

From what I see, there are people in the broader community of military networks and families -- as CD suggests -- that are already "talking" quietly about the truths of the infamous bin Laden raid, let alone the Pakistanis.

Bernice Moore
08-11-2011, 01:18 AM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies/2011/08/congressman-calls-for-probe-of-bigelows-bin-laden-movie.html
Congressman calls for probe of Bigelow's Bin Laden movie

Magda Hassan
08-11-2011, 05:25 AM
Osama bin Laden 'protected by Pakistan in return for Saudi cash'
Osama bin Laden was protected by elements of Pakistan's security apparatus in return for millions of dollars of Saudi cash, according to a controversial new account of the operation to kill the world's most wanted man.

Bin Laden had eluded capture for years (AFP)
By Rob Crilly, Islamabad12:35PM BST 10 Aug 2011
Raelynn Hillhouse, an American security analyst, claims his whereabouts were finally revealed when a Pakistani intelligence officer came forward to claim the $25m (£15 million) bounty on the al-Qaeda leader's head.
Her version, based on evidence from sources in what she calls the "intelligence community", contradicts the official account that bin Laden was tracked down through his trusted courier.
Pakistani officials have always denied that bin Laden was sheltered or that Islamabad had any knowledge of the secret mission that killed him.
But Dr Hillhouse, who is known for her links to private military contractors that work extensively with the CIA, says Pakistan gave permission for a covert mission which would then be covered up by claiming bin Laden had been killed in a drone strike.
"The [Inter-Services Intelligence] officer came forward to claim the substantial reward and to broker US citizenship for his family," she writes on her intelligence blog, The Spy Who Billed Me.

"My sources tell me that the informant claimed that the Saudis were paying off the Pakistani military and intelligence (ISI) to essentially shelter and keep bin Laden under house arrest in Abbottabad, a city with such a high concentration of military that I'm told there's no equivalent in the US." After confirming bin Laden's presence in the military town, the US approached Pakistan's military leaders securing their co-operation in return for cash and a chance to avoid public humiliation.
The theory, if true, would explain how American black hawk helicopters were then able to fly deep into Pakistan territory in May without encountering resistance.
The plan only unravelled when one of the helicopters crash-landed, blowing the cover story.
"The co-operation was why there were no troops in Abottabad," writes Dr Hillhouse. "It had always seemed very far-fetched to me that a helicopter could crash and later be destroyed in an area with such high military concentration without the Pakistanis noticing." In the immediate aftermath of the raid, some residents of Abbottabad, where bin Laden had lived for five years, said they had received mysterious visits a night earlier warning them to stay inside with their lights off.
However, a senior Pakistani security official denied that the ISI had sheltered bin Laden.
"We don't use toilet paper – we wash," he said. "But toilet paper is all this theory is good for."
A spokesman for the US department of defense said: "We have no additional operational details, or comments on operational details, to make at this time."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8693111/Osama-bin-Laden-protected-by-Pakistan-in-return-for-Saudi-cash.html#.TkK_5oPIQrA.facebook

Jan Klimkowski
08-11-2011, 08:00 PM
Magda - thanks for that, ahem, BELLYLAUGH from one of Spook Central's favourite conduits: the Daily Torygraph.


But Dr Hillhouse, who is known for her links to private military contractors that work extensively with the CIA, says Pakistan gave permission for a covert mission which would then be covered up by claiming bin Laden had been killed in a drone strike.

"The [Inter-Services Intelligence] officer came forward to claim the substantial reward and to broker US citizenship for his family," she writes on her intelligence blog, The Spy Who Billed Me.

This is an archetypal psyop, suggesting that Pakistanis are greedy and treacherous both in harbouring Bin Laden and then selling him out.

Who is "Dr Raelynn Hillhouse"?


Hillhouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raelynn_Hillhouse) writes a national security blog, The Spy Who Billed Me. The Spy Who Billed Me was featured in the New York Times Week in Review after the head of the private military corporation Blackwater USA granted her an exclusive interview.

Hillhouse studied in Central and Eastern Europe for over six years at various institutions including Moscow State University, Moscow Finance Institute, Humboldt University of Berlin, Eberhard Karls University of Tübingen (Germany) and Babes-Bolyai University (Cluj, Romania). She earned her undergraduate degree from Washington University in St. Louis[1] and her MA in Russian and East European Studies as well as her Ph.D. in political science from the University of Michigan.

When living as a student in Europe, she claims to have engaged in the black market between East and West, running Cuban rum, smuggling jewels from the Soviet Union and laundering East Bloc currencies. She claims to have been recruited by the East German secret police, the Stasi, and by the Libyan Intelligence Service. Some sources assert that she was an American intelligence officer (McGuire, 2004; Adler, 2004), but Hillhouse denies this (Nolan, 2004).

Hillhouse's debut novel, Rift Zone (2004), is a spy thriller about a female smuggler who becomes entangled in an East German plot to stop the fall of the Berlin Wall. The American Booksellers Association Book Sense program selected it as one of the best books of 2004 and Library Journal named it one of the year's most promising debuts. Her second novel, Outsourced (2007) is a political thriller about the outsourcing of the CIA and Pentagon and the turf wars between the two agencies.

Hillhouse taught at the University of Michigan and was a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii. She is a founding member of the International Thriller Writers.

Ed Jewett
08-18-2011, 01:36 AM
Actually, it is dry Australian wit. And if we are going to be really picky, dry New Zealand wit. John Clarke is a long time resident and local institution here but born in NZ. I'm pretty sure that Bryan Dawe, his partner, is born here. More here (http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/clarkedawe.htm).

Even better... the fellows have been duly bookmarked. Many thanks for sharing..

Ed Jewett
08-18-2011, 01:39 AM
Original Investigation:

Who–And What–Are Behind The “Official History” Of The Bin Laden Raid?
By Russ Baker on Aug 17, 2011

four pages long...

http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/17/raidbinladen/

hat tip to another New Zealander (Kevin @ Cryptogon)

Ed Jewett
08-25-2011, 04:17 AM
White House Hides Hundreds OBL Kill Day Photos August 24, 2011
http://cryptome.org/0005/wh-hides-obl.pdf

Magda Hassan
08-25-2011, 05:21 AM
I'm wondering if the elusive Gadaffi might not be soon assigned the role formerly held by OBL. And his sons of course. They could get quite a few years of cat and mouse to be made out of them all.

Ed Jewett
09-29-2011, 06:03 AM
We re-awakwen this long-dormant thread to inform you that Ossama bin Laden is still dead.

And we won't show you the photos to prove it.





The CIA has 52 separate photos and videos of Osama bin Laden (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-killed/story?id=13505703)‘s body, the U.S. raid that killed him, and his burial at sea, according to a Justice Department document filed earlier this week. A top CIA official argues that the government is “wholly exempt” from releasing the images, however, because publication might inspire terror attacks on U.S. targets.
The image count came in response to a lawsuit by the conservative group Judicial Watch, which filed a Freedom of Information Act request on May 4, three days after the raid on bin Laden’s Pakistan compound (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/khalid-sheikh-muhammad-capture-osama-bin-laden-courier/story?id=13506413), for the release of the death images. The Department of Justice responded with a declaration from John Bennett, director of the National Clandestine Service of the CIA, arguing that disclosure of the images is a security risk.
Bennett reports that the CIA conducted a search of its records to determine how many images of the raid and its aftermath it possessed. “The CIA located a total of fifty-two (52) unique records that are responsive to Plaintiff’s FOIA request. These records are photographs and/or video recordings taken of UBL on or about 1 May 2011, the day that the United States conducted an operation that resulted in his death.”


http://www.bobtuskin.com/2011/09/28/cia-provides-list-of-gruesome-osama-bin-laden-death-photos/
Read More: [/URL][URL]http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-list-gruesome-osama-bin-laden-death-photos/story?id=14626404 (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-list-gruesome-osama-bin-laden-death-photos/story?id=14626404)
***

September 27, 2011

Categories:


FOIA (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/category/FOIA)
CIA, Pentagon fight to keep Osama bin Laden death photos secret (http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0911/CIA_Pentagon_fight_to_keep_Bin_Laden_photos_secret .html#)

Photos and videos of Al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden (http://topics.politico.com/index.cfm/topic/OsamaBinLaden) after he was killed in May in a U.S. military/Central Intelligence Agency raid in Pakistan should not be released publicly because they would reveal military and intelligence secrets and could lead to violence against U.S. personnel, the Obama administration argued in papers filed in federal court in Washington late Monday night.
The new filings from the Justice Department provide scant details about the imagery, but CIA National Clandestine Service Director John Bennett wrote that the CIA has "52 unique....photographs and/or videorecordings" depicting bin Laden during or after the May operation. Bennett did not break down the tally further, but said all the imagery is classified "TOP SECRET," meaning that disclosure of the material could lead to "exceptionally grave damage" to U.S. national security.
"All of the responsive records are the product of a highly sensitive, overseas operation that was conducted under the direction of the CIA," Bennett wrote, arguing that disclosure of the information would reveal "intelligence activities and/or methods." He called the photos "gruesome," and said they depict the gunshot wound to bin Laden's head. It is unclear whether his descriptions referred to all the images and videos, or just some of them.
The motion for summary judgment and supporting declarations ask U.S. District Court Judge James Boasberg to rule for the government in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought in May by Judicial Watch (http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0511/Group_sues_feds_for_bin_Laden_photos.html). The conservative watchdog group sued the Defense Department after it failed to comply with the group's request for the bin Laden imagery. The suit was broadened in June to name the CIA as a defendant.
While the Justice Department's motion is backed by declarations from high ranking officials at the Pentagon and CIA, the government lawyers make clear that their marching orders come from the top. Near its outset, the brief quotes President Barack Obama's comments on the issue during a "60 Minutes" interview in May.
"It is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence. As a propaganda tool. You know, that’s not who we are. You know, we don’t trot out this stuff as trophies," Obama said. "We don’t need to spike the football."
The brief includes Obama's claim that then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and intelligence officials "all" agreed that releasing the images would "create some national security risk." The legal papers do not mention that before Obama made the decision to keep the images secret, then-CIA director Leon Panetta said (http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0511/no_question_83c768cf-2e17-4497-bdee-7a04ef46044e.html) there was no "question that ultimately a photograph would be presented to the public." (Panetta has since become defense secretary.)
The government's filings Monday were also accompanied by a declaration from Admiral William McRaven, who heads the U.S. Special Operations Command and commands the Navy SEALs who carried out the bin Laden raid. McRaven argues that release of the imagery "could reasonably be expected to...make the special operations unit that participated in this operation and its members more readily identifiable in the future." Portions of McRaven's arguments were classified and filed under seal.
In another declaration, the head of operations for the military's joint staff, Lt. Gen. Robert Neller, argued that release of the bin Laden death imagery could lead to violence against U.S. military personnel in Afghanistan, Afghan civilians and police, Afghans working with the U.S., and U.S. citizens worldwide. Neller also said releasing the images could "aid the recruitment efforts...of insurgent elements" in Afghanistan, "weaken the new Democratic government of Afghanistan, and add extremist pressures on several of our regional allies."
The legal fight over the bin Laden photos has produced some disagreement among FOIA experts (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54888.html). Some expect the government to prevail in the case without much difficulty because courts are traditionally very deferential to the executive branch in litigation involving national security, particularly FOIA cases. However, a few FOIA specialists have said aspects of the government's arguments against disclosure is weaker than in other cases, chiefly because of reliance on the harms that stem in essence from the public relations impact the imagery could have.
Judicial Watch was not the only organization to request the photos and video.Several news organizations, including the Associated Press and POLITICO (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54888.html), also did so.
The government's new filings appear to offer some openings for attack on the part of those pressing for disclosure.
First, while the arguments for withholding imagery from the raid and its immediate aftermath are legally strong, those for withholding the images of bin Laden's burial seem substantially weaker. It's hard to see how that event implicates any national security secrets. Second, the CIA's claim that none of the images or videos can be released even in part seems conclusory. A heavily-edited video of bin Laden's burial, for example, might or might not not be very interesting, but for that same reason it seems less likely to produce the negative consequences the government warns about.
The government filings claim that the Defense Department found no imagery responsive to the requests. Sources previously told POLITICO that at least some of the images were on a secure, classified interagency network accessible to individuals at various agencies. The new court filings don't make clear who took the photos and video. If they were in posession of military personnel at the time the FOIA requests were made or thereafter, some of the arguments for disclosure could be strengthened. However, it's also possible that the courts may accept that the entire operation is an intelligence activity that the CIA is entitled to keep secret or disclose as it sees fit (http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0911/Judge_CIA_need_not_release_drone_strike_files.html ).
Judicial Watch is scheduled to respond to the government's filings by October 24. Boasberg, an Obama appointee confirmed to the district court in March of this year, is unlikely to rule before December.
For those who want to dive further into the details: the government's motion is posted here (http://www.politico.com/static/PPM223_110926_14main.html), Bennett's declaration is posted here (http://www.politico.com/static/PPM223_110926_142.html), McRaven's redacted declaration is posted here (http://www.politico.com/static/PPM223_110926_144.html), and Neller's is here (http://www.politico.com/static/PPM223_110926_145.html).

(http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0911/CIA_Pentagon_fight_to_keep_Bin_Laden_photos_secret .html#)

Posted by Josh Gerstein 01:27 AM
Tags:



Al Qaeda (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/AlQaeda),
CIA (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/CIA),
Department Of Defense (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/DepartmentOfDefense),
Freedom Of Information Act (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/FreedomOfInformationAct),
Navy Seals (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/NavySeals),
Osama Bin Laden (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/OsamaBinLaden),
Pakistan (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/Pakistan),
Pentagon (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/Pentagon),
Special Operations (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/SpecialOperations),
Transparency (http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/index.cfm/tag/Transparency)


comments ( 121 ) (http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0911/CIA_Pentagon_fight_to_keep_Bin_Laden_photos_secret .html#comments)

Jan Klimkowski
09-29-2011, 08:52 PM
Photos and videos of Al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden after he was killed in May in a U.S. military/Central Intelligence Agency raid in Pakistan should not be released publicly because they would reveal military and intelligence secrets

:lol::lol::lol:

What military and intelligence secrets would those be?????????

Peter Lemkin
12-02-2011, 05:41 PM
(http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/17/raidbinladen/)Doubts On “Official Story” of Bin Laden Killing
Posted By Russ Baker On August 17, 2011 @ 4:00 am In
Article Summary: When you look closely, nothing seems right about what will surely become the accepted account of the raid that nailed America’s enemy number one. And then things get even weirder…
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/38-300x225.png (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/38.png) [1]The father of the New Yorker writer who got the exclusive inside story of the bin Laden raid


http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/LET-T-01-150x150.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/LET-T-01.jpg) [2]he establishment media just keep getting worse. They’re further and further from good, tough investigative journalism, and more prone to be pawns in complicated games that affect the public interest in untold ways. A significant recent example is The New Yorker’s vaunted August 8 exclusive (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle?currentPage=all) [3] on the vanquishing of Osama bin Laden.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/large2.png (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/large2.png) [4]
The piece, trumpeted as the most detailed account to date of the May 1 raid in Abbottabad Pakistan, was an instant hit. “Got the chills half dozen times reading @NewYorker killing bin Laden tick tock…exquisite journalism,” tweeted the digital director of the PBS show Frontline. The author, freelancer Nicholas Schmidle, was quickly featured on the Charlie Rose show, an influential determiner of “chattering class” opinion. Other news outlets rushed to praise the story as “exhaustive,” “utterly compelling,” and on and on.
To be sure, it is the kind of granular, heroic story that the public loves, that generates follow-up bestsellers and movie options. The takedown even has a Hollywood-esque code name: “Operation Neptune’s Spear”
Here’s the introduction to the mission commander, full of minute details that help give it a ring of authenticity and suggest the most intimate reportorial access:

James, a broad-chested man in his late thirties, does not have the lithe swimmer’s frame that one might expect of a SEAL—he is built more like a discus thrower. That night, he wore a shirt and trousers in Desert Digital Camouflage, and carried a silenced Sig Sauer P226 pistol, along with extra ammunition; a CamelBak, for hydration; and gel shots, for endurance. He held a short-barrel, silenced M4 rifle. (Others SEALs had chosen the Heckler & Koch MP7.) A “blowout kit,” for treating field trauma, was tucked into the small of James’s back. Stuffed into one of his pockets was a laminated gridded map of the compound. In another pocket was a booklet with photographs and physical descriptions of the people suspected of being inside. He wore a noise-cancelling headset, which blocked out nearly everything besides his heartbeat.
On and on went the “tick-tock.” Yet as Paul Farhi, a Washington Post reporter, noted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/freelance-journalist-scores-coup-with-account-of-bin-laden-raid/2011/08/02/gIQAEiaeqI_story.html) [5], that narrative was misleading in the extreme, because the New Yorker reporter never actually spoke to James—nor to a single one of James’s fellow SEALs (who have never been identified or photographed–even from behind–to protect their identity.) Instead, every word of Schmidle’s narrative was provided to him by people who were not present at the raid. Complains Farhi:

…a casual reader of the article wouldn’t know that; neither the article nor an editor’s note describes the sourcing for parts of the story. Schmidle, in fact, piles up so many details about some of the men, such as their thoughts at various times, that the article leaves a strong impression that he spoke with them directly.
That didn’t trouble New Yorker editor David Remnick, according to Farhi:

Remnick says he’s satisfied with the accuracy of the account. “The sources spoke to our fact-checkers,” he said. “I know who they are.”
But we don’t.
On a story of this gravity, should we automatically join in with the huzzahs because it has the imprimatur of America’s most respected magazine? Or would we be wise to approach it with caution?
***
Most of us are not the trusting naïfs we once were. And with good reason.
The list of consequential events packaged for us by media and Hollywood in unsatisfactory ways continues to grow. It starts, certainly, with the official version of the JFK assassination, widely discredited yet still carried forward by most major media organizations. (For more on that, see this (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/07/27/the-ny-times%E2%80%99-ostrich-act-on-jfk-assassination-getting-old/) [6].) More and more people realize that the heroic Woodward & Bernstein story of Nixon’s demise is deeply problematical. (I’ve written extensively on both of these in my book Family of Secrets (http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secrets-Americas-Invisible-Government/dp/1608190064/) [7].)
And untold millions don’t think we’ve heard the real (or at least complete) story of the phenomenal, complex success of those 19 hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001. Skeptics now include former White House counterterrorism adviser Richard Clarke, who recently (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/11/september-11th-anniversary-richard-clarke-s-explosive-cia-cover-up-charge.html) [8] speculated that the hijackers may have been able to enter the US and move freely precisely because American intelligence hoped to recruit them as double agents—and that an ongoing cover-up is designed to http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Jessic-l-150x150.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Jessic-l.jpg) [9]hide this. And then, of course, there are the Pentagon’s account of the heroic rescue of Jessica Lynch in Iraq, which turned out to be a hoax, and the Pentagon’s fabricated account of the heroic battle death of former NFL player Pat Tillman in Afghanistan, who turned out to be a victim of friendly fire. These are just a few from scores of examples of deceit perpetrated upon the American people. Hardly the kind of track record to inspire confidence in official explanations with the imprimatur of the military and the CIA.
Whatever one thinks of these other matters, we’re certainly now at a point where we ought to be prudent in embracing authorized accounts of the latest seismic event: the dramatic end to one of America’s most reviled and storied nemeses.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/images.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/images.jpg) [10]The bin Laden raid presents us with every reason to be cautious. The government’s initial claims about what transpired at that house in Abbottabad have changed, then changed again, with no proper explanation of the discrepancies. Even making allowances for human error in such shifting accounts, almost every aspect of what we were told requires a willing suspension of disbelief—from the manner of Osama’s death and burial to the purported pornography found at the site. (For more on these issues, see previous articles we wrote on the subject, here (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/05/12/demanding-the-evidence-on-abbottabad-even-the-media-establishment-is-wary/) [11], here (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/05/05/more-questions-on-bin-laden/) [12] and here (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/05/03/12-questions-about-bin-laden/) [13].)
Clarke’s theory will seem less outrageous later, as we explore Saudi intelligence’s crucial, and bizarre, role at the end of bin Laden’s life—working directly with the man who now holds Clarke’s job.
Add to all of this the discovery that the reporter providing this newest account wasn’t even allowed to talk to any raid participants—and the magazine’s lack of candor on this point—and you’ve got an almost unassailable case for treating the New Yorker story with extreme caution.
***

Continue to page 2 of 4 (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/17/raidbinladen/2/) [14]
We might begin by asking the question: Who provided The New Yorker with its exclusive, and what was their agenda in doing so? To try and sort out Schmidle’s sources, I read through the piece carefully several times.
One person who spoke to the reporter, and who is identified by name is John O. Brennan, Obama’s counterterrorism adviser. Brennan is quoted directly, briefly, near the top, describing to Schmidle pre-raid debate over whether such an operation would be a success or failure:

John Brennan, Obama’s counterterrorism adviser, told me that the President’s advisers began an “interrogation of the data, to see if, by that interrogation, you’re going to disprove the theory that bin Laden was there.”
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/51417826-300x199.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/51417826.jpg) [16]The mere fact of Schmidle’s reliance on Brennan at all should send up a flare for the cautious reader. After all, that’s the very same Brennan who was the principal source of incorrect details in the hours and days after the raid. These included the claim that the SEALs encountered substantial armed resistance, not least from bin Laden himself; that it took them an astounding 40 minutes to get to bin Laden, and that the White House got to hear the soldiers’ conversations in real time.
Here’s a Washington Post account from Brennan published on May 3, less than 48 hours after the raid:

Half an hour had passed on the ground, but the American commandos raiding Osama bin Laden’s Pakistani hideaway had yet to find their long-sought target.
…The commandos swept methodically through the compound’s main building, clearing one room and then another as they made their way to the upper floors where they expected to find bin Laden. As they did so, Obama administration officials in the White House Situation Room listened to the SEAL team’s conversations over secure lines.
“The minutes passed like days,” said John O. Brennan, the administration’s chief counterterrorism adviser. “It was probably one of the most anxiety-filled periods of time, I think, in the lives of the people who were assembled.”
Finally, shortly before 2 a.m. in Pakistan, the commandos burst into an upstairs room.Inside, an armed bin Laden took cover behind a woman, Brennan said. With a burst of gunfire, one of the longest and costliest manhunts in modern history was over.
.. The commandos moved inside, and finally reached bin Laden’s upstairs living quarters after nearly 40 minutes on the ground.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Osama-bin-Ladens-compound-in-Abbottabad-Pakistan-where-he-was-killed-by-in-a-raiding-operation-by-U.S.-Navy-SEALS.-Photo-U.S.Department-of-Defense.-Wikimedia-Commons.-300x173.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Osama-bin-Ladens-compound-in-Abbottabad-Pakistan-where-he-was-killed-by-in-a-raiding-operation-by-U.S.-Navy-SEALS.-Photo-U.S.Department-of-Defense.-Wikimedia-Commons..jpg) [17]Almost all that turns out to be hogwash—according to the new account produced by The New Yorker three months later. An account that, again, it seems, comes courtesy of Brennan. The minutes did not pass like days. Bin Laden was not armed, and did not take cover behind a woman. And the commandoes most certainly were not on the ground for 40 minutes. Some of them were up the stairs to the higher floors almost in a flash, and it didn’t take long for them to run into and kill bin Laden.
For another take, consider this account from NBC News’ Pentagon correspondent—also reported the week after the raid— two days after Brennan told the Washington Post a completely different story. This one appears to be based on a briefing from military officials who would have been likely to have good knowledge of the operational details:

According to the officials’ account, as the first SEAL team moved into the compound, they took small-arms fire from the guest house in the compound. The SEALs returned fire, killing bin Laden’s courier and the courier’s wife, who died in the crossfire. It was the only time the SEALs were shot at.
The second SEAL team entered the first floor of the main residence and could see a man standing in the dark with one hand behind his back. Fearing he was hiding a weapon, the SEALs shot and killed the lone man, who turned out to be unarmed.
As the U.S. commandos moved through the house, they found several stashes of weapons and barricades, as if the residents were prepared for a violent and lengthy standoff — which never materialized.
The SEALs then made their way up a staircase, where they ran into one of bin Laden’s sons. The Americans immediately shot and killed the 19-year-old son, who was also unarmed, according to the officials.
Hearing the shots, bin Laden peered over the railing from the floor above. The SEALs fired but missed bin Laden, who ducked back into his bedroom. As the SEALs stormed up the stairs, two young girls ran from the room.
One SEAL scooped them up and carried them out of harm’s way. The other two commandos stormed into bin Laden’s bedroom. One of bin Laden’s wives rushed toward the Navy SEAL, who shot her in the leg.
Then, without hesitation, the same commando turned his gun on bin Laden, standing in what appeared to be pajamas, and fired two quick shots, one to the chest and one to the head. Although there were weapons in that bedroom, bin Laden was also unarmed when he was shot.
Instead of a chaotic firefight, the U.S. officials said, the American commando assault was a precision operation, with SEALs moving carefully through the compound, room to room, floor to floor.
In fact, most of the operation was spent in what the military calls “exploiting the site,” gathering up the computers, hard drives, cellphones and files that could provide valuable intelligence on al-Qaida operatives and potential operations worldwide.
The U.S. officials describing the operation said the SEALs carefully gathered up 22 women and children to ensure they were not harmed. Some of the women were put in “flexi-cuffs” the plastic straps used to bind someone’s hands at the wrists, and left them for Pakistani security forces to discover.
***
Given that Brennan’s initial version of the raid was strikingly erroneous, his later account to The New Yorker is suspect as well. So who else besides Brennan might have been Schmidle’s sources? At one point in his piece, he cites an unnamed counterterrorism official:

A senior counterterrorism official who visited the JSOC redoubt described it as an enclave of unusual secrecy and discretion. “Everything they were working on was closely held,” the official said.
Later, that same unnamed counterterrorism official is again cited, this time seeming to continue Brennan’s narrative of the meeting before the raid, in which participants disagreed on the likely success of such a mission:

That day in Washington, Panetta convened more than a dozen senior C.I.A. officials and analysts for a final preparatory meeting. Panetta asked the participants, one by one, to declare how confident they were that bin Laden was inside the Abbottabad compound. The counterterrorism official told me that the percentages “ranged from forty per cent to ninety or ninety-five per cent,” and added, “This was a circumstantial case.”
From the story’s construction, one could reasonably conclude that the unnamed counterterrorism official is indeed still just Brennan. If not, who could it be? How many different white House counterterrorism officials would have debriefed the SEALs, if indeed that is even their role? How many would have been privy to that planning meeting? And how many different officials would have gotten authorization to sum up the events of that important day for this New Yorker writer? Also, it’s an old journalistic trick to quote the same source, on and off the record— thereby giving the source extra cover when discussing particularly delicate matters.
So, we don’t know whether the article was based on anything more than Brennan, under marching orders to clean up the conflicting accounts he originally put out.

Continue to page 3 of 4 (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/17/raidbinladen/3/) [18]
UNEXPLAINED DISPUTES
It’s curious that the source chooses to emphasize the fundamental disagreement over whether the raid was a good idea. Presumably, there was a purpose in emphasizing this, but the New Yorker’s “tick-tock”, which is very light on analysis or context, doesn’t tell us what it was. It may have been intended to show Obama as brave, inclined toward big risks (thereby running counter to his reputation)—we can only guess.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/5684420385_a0c4602be8.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/5684420385_a0c4602be8.jpg) [19]This internal discord will get the attention of anyone who remembers all the assertions from intelligence officials over the years that bin Laden was almost certainly already dead—either of natural causes or killed at some previous time.
Here’s a bit more from The New Yorker on officials’ doubts going into the raid:


Several analysts from the National Counterterrorism Center were invited to critique the C.I.A.’s analysis; their confidence in the intelligence ranged between forty and sixty per cent. The center’s director, Michael Leiter, said that it would be preferable to wait for stronger confirmation of bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad.
Those doubts are particularly interesting for several reasons: the CIA has had a long history of disputes between its covert action wing, which tends to advocate activity, and its analysis section, historically prone to caution. The action wing also has a history of publicizing its being right—when it could purport to be right—and covering up its failures. So when an insider chooses to make public these disagreements, we should be willing to consider motives.
This dispute can also be seen as an intriguing prologue to the rush to dump Bin Laden’s body and not provide proof to the public that it was indeed bin Laden. What if it wasn’t bin Laden that they killed? Would the government announce that after such a high-stakes operation? (“While we thought he’d be there, we accidentally killed someone else instead”? Seems unlikely.)
***
Now, let us go to the next antechamber of this warren of shadowy entities and unstated agendas.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/cia-waterboarded-gitmo-detainee-183-times-in-a-month1.jpeg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/cia-waterboarded-gitmo-detainee-183-times-in-a-month1.jpeg) [20]Who exactly wanted bin Laden shot rather than taken alive and interrogated—and why? There’s been much discussion about the purported reasons for terminating him on sight, but the fact remains that he would have been a source of tremendous intelligence of real value to the safety of Americans and others.
Yet, early in the piece, Schmidle writes:

If all went according to plan, the SEALs would drop from the helicopters into the compound, overpower bin Laden’s guards, shoot and kill him at close range, and then take the corpse back to Afghanistan.
That was the plan? Whose plan? We’ve never been explicitly told by the White House that such a decision had been made. In fact, we’d previously been informed that the president was glad to have the master plotter taken alive if he was unarmed and did not resist. So, that’s a huge and problematical discrepancy that is only heightened by Schmidle’s misleadingly matter-of-fact treatment of the matter.
GET ME RIYADH
If the justification for killing Osama presented in The New Yorker warrants concern, the account of how—and why—they disposed of his body ought to send alarm bells clanging.
At the time of the raid, the decision to hastily dump Osama’s body in the ocean rather than make it available for authoritative forensic examination was a highly controversial one—that only led to more speculation that the White House was hiding something. The justifications, including not wanting to bury him on land for fear of creating a shrine, were almost laughable.
So what do we learn about this from The New Yorker? It’s truly bizarre: the SEALS themselves made the decision. That’s strange enough. But then we learn that Brennan took it upon himself to verify that was the right decision. How did he do this? Not by speaking with the president or top military, diplomatic or legal brass. No, he called some foreigners—get ready–the Saudis, who told him that dumping at sea sounded like a good plan.
Here’s Schmidle’s account:

All along, the SEALs had planned to dump bin Laden’s corpse into the sea—a blunt way of ending the bin Laden myth. They had successfully pulled off a similar scheme before. During a DEVGRU helicopter raid inside Somalia in September, 2009, SEALs had killed Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan, one of East Africa’s top Al Qaeda leaders; Nabhan’s corpse was then flown to a ship in the Indian Ocean, given proper Muslim rites, and thrown overboard. Before taking that step for bin Laden, however, John Brennan made a call. Brennan, who had been a C.I.A. station chief in Riyadh, phoned a former counterpart in Saudi intelligence. Brennan told the man what had occurred in Abbottabad and informed him of the plan to deposit bin Laden’s remains at sea. As Brennan knew, bin Laden’s relatives were still a prominent family in the Kingdom, and Osama had once been a Saudi citizen. Did the Saudi government have any interest in taking the body? “Your plan sounds like a good one,” the Saudi replied.
Let’s consider this. The most wanted man in the world; substantive professional doubts about whether the man in the Abbottabad house is him; tremendous public doubts about whether it could even be him; the most important operation of the Obama presidency; yet the decision about what to do with the body is left to low-level operatives. Keep in mind SEALs are trained to follow orders given by others. They’re expected to apply what they know to unexpected scenarios that come up, but the key strategic decisions— arrived at in advance—are not theirs to make.
Even more strange that Brennan would discuss this with a foreign power. And not just any foreign power, but the regime that is inextricably linked with the domestically-influential family of bin Laden—and home to many of the hijackers who worked for him.
Is it just me, or does this sound preposterous? Obama’s Homeland Security and Counterterrorism adviser is just winging it with key aspects of one of America’s most important, complex and risky operations? And the Saudi government is the one deciding to discard the remains of a man from one of Saudi Arabia’s most powerful families, before the public could receive proper proof of the identity of the body? A regime with a great deal at stake and perhaps plenty to hide.
Also please consider this important caveat: As we noted in a previous (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/05/05/more-questions-on-bin-laden/) [12] article, the claim that the body had already been positively identified via DNA has been disputed by a DNA expert who said that insufficient time had elapsed before the sea burial to complete such tests.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2010125135551452811_20-300x198.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2010125135551452811_20.jpg) [21]The line about Brennan himself having been a former CIA station chief in Saudi Arabia is just sort of dropped in there. No recognition of what it means that a person of that background was put into that position after 9/11, no recognition that a person of that background and those fraught personal connections is controlling this narrative. He’s not just a “counterterrorism expert”—he is a longtime member of an agency whose mandate includes the frequent use of disinformation. And one who has his own historic direct links to the Saudi regime, a key and problematical player in the larger chess game playing out.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0519-1010-0717-2634_president_barack_obama_listening_to_john_bren nans_report_o1-300x200.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0519-1010-0717-2634_president_barack_obama_listening_to_john_bren nans_report_o1.jpg) [22]It’s relevant to note that Brennan is not only a career CIA officer (they say no one ever really leaves the Agency, no matter their new title) but one with a lot of baggage. He was deputy director of the CIA at the time of the 9/11 attacks. He was an adviser to Obama’s presidential campaign, after which Obama initially planned to name him CIA director. That appointment was pulled, in part due to criticism from human rights advocates over statements he had made in support of sending terrorism suspects to countries where they might be tortured.
Of course, there could have been other sources besides Brennan. In addition to the unnamed “counterterrorism official” previously cited, the New Yorker mentions a “special operations officer,” as in:

…according to a special-operations officer who is deeply familiar with the bin Laden raid.
Subsequent quotes from him indicate that this had to be a supervisory special ops officer. His comments are surprising:

“This wasn’t a hard op,” the special-operations officer told me. “It would be like hitting a target in McLean”—the upscale Virginia suburb of Washington, D.C.
Whoops! Here’s a Special Ops guy saying the Special Ops raid was actually no big deal! Shouldn’t that, if a valid assessment, get more attention? Especially given the endless praise and frequent statements of how difficult the operation was. I mean, the toughness and diciness of the Abbottabad mission is the prime reason we want to read the New Yorker’s account in the first place!
To further underline the point, consider that this fellow is not alone in his assessment:

In the months after the raid, the media have frequently suggested that the Abbottabad operation was as challenging as Operation Eagle Claw and the “Black Hawk Down” incident, but the senior Defense Department official told me that “this was not one of three missions.”…. He likened the routine of evening raids to “mowing the lawn.”
Why would a person overseeing an operation like this deflate the bubble of adoration? It doesn’t seem helpful to the interests of Special Operations– and it doesn’t seem credible, either. So there’s presumably a reason that this person is—again speaking to The New Yorker after this important exclusive has been carefully considered and strategized. We just don’t know what it is, and the magazine doesn’t even bother to wonder.
***
Most of the other sources seem to play bit roles. One is “a senior adviser to the President” whose only comment is that Obama decided not to trust the Pakistanis with advance notice of the raid—which we already knew. Another— named—source is Ben Rhodes, a deputy national-security adviser, who does not evince any intimate knowledge of the raid itself.
The New Yorker also includes a few other officials who brief Schmidle on general background, like a “senior defense department official” explaining the overall relationship between Special Operations and CIA personnel, and a named former CIA counsel explaining that the Abottabad raid amounted to “a complete incorporation of JSOC [Joint Special Operations Command] into a C.I.A. operation.”
That’s only slipped into the article, but it is perhaps one of the most important aspects of the piece, along with a brief mention of the way in which former Iraq/Afghan commander General DavidPetraeus has gone to CIA while CIA director Panetta has been made Defense Secretary. (For more on these important but confusing games of high-level musical chairs, which were not deeply scrutinized in the conventional media, see our WhoWhatWhy pieces here (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/04/29/the-cia-pentagon-shuffle-the-fake-story-and-the-real-one/) [23] and here (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/04/27/musical-chairs-in-cia-and-pentagon-now-name-that-tune/) [24].)
This may sound too technical for your taste, but the takeaway point is that fundamental realignments are afoot in that vast, massively-funded, powerful and secretive part of the US government that is treated by thecorporate press almost as if it does not exist. The tales of internal intrigue that we do not hear would begin to provide us with the real narratives that are not ours to have.
In the New Yorker piece, we do learn lots of things we did not know before—for example, that Special Ops considered tunneling in or coming in by foot rather than helicopter. We learn that Secretary of Defense Robert Gates wanted to drop massive bombs on the house. General James Cartwright, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, shared that view—Cartwright is one of the few who is directly identified as a source for Schmidle. That’s important stuff, and worth more than brief mention. And, once again, we need more effort to try and understand why we are being told these things.

Continue to page 4 of 4 (http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/17/raidbinladen/4/) [25] “WE REALLY DIDN’T KNOW…WHAT WAS GOING ON”
About two-thirds of the article is a sort of scene-setter, a prologue to on-the-ground story we’ve all been waiting for. But when the big moment arrives, The New Yorker’s Schmidle instead punts:

Meanwhile, James, the squadron commander, had breached one wall, crossed a section of the yard covered with trellises, breached a second wall, and joined up with the SEALs from helo one, who were entering the ground floor of the house. What happened next is not precisely clear. “I can tell you that there was a time period of almost twenty to twenty-five minutes where we really didn’t know just exactly what was going on,” Panetta said later, on “PBS NewsHour.”
Until this moment, the operation had been monitored by dozens of defense, intelligence, and Administration officials watching the drone’s video feed. The SEALs were not wearing helmet cams, contrary to a widely cited report by CBS. None of them had any previous knowledge of the house’s floor plan, and they were further jostled by the awareness that they were possibly minutes away from ending the costliest manhunt in American history; as a result, some of their recollections—on which this account is based—may be imprecise and, thus, subject to dispute.
Schmidle claims that the SEALs’ “recollections—on which this account is based”—are subject to dispute. But as I’ve noted, the article is NOT based on their recollections, but on what some source claims to Schmidle were their recollections. Why the summary may be imprecise and thus subject to dispute after it has been filtered by a person controlling the scenario, must be asked. Perhaps this is why The New Yorker is not permitted to speak directly to the SEALs—because of what they could tell the magazine.
Now, killing the men who lived in the compound: First, the SEALs shot and killed the courier, who they say was armed, and his wife, who they say was not, when they emerged from the guesthouse. Then they killed the courier’s brother inside the main house, who they say was armed. Then they moved up the stairs:

..three SEALs marched up the stairs. Midway up, they saw bin Laden’s twenty-three-year-old son, Khalid, craning his neck around the corner. He then appeared at the top of the staircase with an AK-47. Khalid, who wore a white T-shirt with an overstretched neckline and had short hair and a clipped beard, fired down at the Americans. (The counterterrorism official claims that Khalid was unarmed, though still a threat worth taking seriously. “You have an adult male, late at night, in the dark, coming down the stairs at you in an Al Qaeda house—your assumption is that you’re encountering a hostile.”) At least two of the SEALs shot back and killed Khalid.
Ok, that’s pretty strange. First, Schmidle asserts that Khalid bin Laden was armed and fired with an AK-47. Then he quotes this counterterrorism official—who could in fact be Brennan—saying that Khalid was unarmed. Why does the New Yorker first run the “Khalid was armed” claim as a fact, and then include the official disclaimer? What’s really going on here, even from the New Yorker’s editorial standpoint?
Here’s another such instance: a dispute over where Osama was when they first saw him:

Three SEALs shuttled past Khalid’s body and blew open another metal cage, which obstructed the staircase leading to the third floor. Bounding up the unlit stairs, they scanned the railed landing. On the top stair, the lead SEAL swivelled right; with his night-vision goggles, he discerned that a tall, rangy man with a fist-length beard was peeking out from behind a bedroom door, ten feet away. The SEAL instantly sensed that it was Crankshaft [codename for Osama]. (The counterterrorism official asserts that the SEAL first saw bin Laden on the landing, and fired but missed.)
What’s the purpose of all this? How good is intelligence work when they can’t reconstruct whether the singular focus of the operation was first spotted peeking out from a doorway, or standing on the landing above them?
And then one of the most interesting passages, about the kill:

A second SEAL stepped into the room and trained the infrared laser of his M4 on bin Laden’s chest. The Al Qaeda chief, who was wearing a tan shalwar kameez and a prayer cap on his head, froze; he was unarmed. “There was never any question of detaining or capturing him—it wasn’t a split-second decision. No one wanted detainees,” the special-operations officer told me. (The Administration maintains that had bin Laden immediately surrendered he could have been taken alive.)
Uh-oh. So who is this Special Operations officer? He is directly disputing the administration’s claim on what surely matters greatly—what were President Obama’s intentions here? And did they always plan to just ignore them? That The New Yorker just drops this in with no further analysis or context is, simply put, shocking.
It seems almost as if Panetta, Obama, and the people in the story who most closely approximate actual representatives of the public in a functioning democracy, were basically cut off from observing what went down that day—or from influencing what transpired.
Consider this statement from Panetta, not included in the New Yorker piece:

“Once those teams went into the compound I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes where we really didn’t know just exactly what was going on. And there were some very tense moments as we were waiting for information.
“We had some observation of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of information as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound.”
Panetta’s “lost 25 minutes” needs to be seen in the context of a man with civilian roots, notwithstanding two mid-60s years as a Lt. in military intel: Former Congressman, Clinton White House budget chief and Chief of Staff, credentials with civil rights and environment movements—a fellow with real distance from the true spook/military mojo.
Taken together, here’s what we have: President Obama did not know exactly what was going on. He did not decide that bin Laden should be shot. And he did not decide to dump his body in the ocean. The CIA and its Special Ops allies made all the decisions.
Then Brennan, the CIA’s man, put out the version that CIA wanted. (Keep in mind that, as noted earlier, CIA was really running the operation—with Special Ops under its direction).
What we’re looking at, folks, is the reality of democracy in America: A permanent entrenched covert establishment that marches to its own drummer or to drummers unknown. It’s exactly the kind of thing that never gets reported. Too scary. Too real. Better to dismiss this line of inquiry as too “conspiracy theory.”
If that sounds like hyperbole, let me add this rather significant consideration. It is the background of Nicholas Schmidle, the freelancer who wrote the New Yorker piece. It may give us insight into how he landed this extraordinary exclusive on this extraordinarily sensitive matter—information again, significantly, not shared by The New Yorker with its readers:
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/a-300x197.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/a.jpg) [26]Schmidle’s father is Marine Lt. General Robert E. “Rooster” Schmidle Jr. General Schmidle served as Commanding Officer of Special Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Force (Experimental)—that’s essentially Special Operations akin to Navy SEALs. In recent years, he was “assistant deputy commandant for Programs and Resources (Programs)”—where, among other things, he oversaw “irregular warfare.” (See various, including contract specs here (http://seaport.spa.com/seaport/views/includes/N00178-05-D-4592-MUT1%20Mod%2020%20Redacted.pdf) [27] on “Special Operations,” and picture caption here (http://www.dvidshub.net/news/38250/ii-mef-showcases-its-irregular-warfare-capabilities-qdr-panel#.TkpVNILmuAk) [28]) In 2010, he moved into another piece of this, when Obama appointed him deputy commander, U.S. Cyber Command. Cumulatively, this makes the author’s father a very important man in precisely the sort of circles who care how the raid is publicly portrayed—and who would be quite intimate with some of the folks hunkering down with Obama in the Situation Room on the big day.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Nicholas-Schmidle-300x206.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Nicholas-Schmidle-300x206.jpg) [29]You can see a photo (http://www.flickr.com/photos/newamerica/4641549651/in/set-72157624016564827/) [30] of Gen. Schmidle on a 2010 panel (http://www.newamerica.net/events/2010/warring_futures) [31] about “Warring Futures.” Event co-sponsors include Slate magazine and the New America Foundation, both of which, according to Nicholas Schmidle’s website (http://www.nicholasschmidle.com/bio.html) [32], have also provided Schmidle’s son with an ongoing perch (with Slate giving him a platform for numerous articles from war zones and the foundation employing him as a Fellow.) These parallel relationships grow more disturbing with contemplation.
***
So let’s get back to the question, Who is driving this Ship of State?
First, consider this passage:

Obama returned to the White House at two o’clock, after playing nine holes of golf at Andrews Air Force Base. The Black Hawks departed from Jalalabad thirty minutes later. Just before four o’clock, Panetta announced to the group in the Situation Room that the helicopters were approaching Abbottabad.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/wh_John_Brennan_and_Obama.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/wh_John_Brennan_and_Obama.jpg) [33]To be really useful reporting here, rather than just meaningless “color”, we’d need some context. Was the golf game’s purpose to blow off steam at an especially tense time? Did Obama not think it important enough for him to be constantly present in the hours leading up to the raid? Is this typical of his schedule when huge things are happening? We desperately need a more realistic sense of what presidents do, how much they’re really in charge, or, instead, figureheads for unnamed individuals who make most of the critical decisions.
Here’s something just as strange: we are told the President took a commanding role in determining key operational tactics, but then didn’t seem interested in important details, after the fact.

Forty-five minutes after the Black Hawks departed, four MH-47 Chinooks launched from the same runway in Jalalabad. Two of them flew to the border, staying on the Afghan side; the other two proceeded into Pakistan. Deploying four Chinooks was a last-minute decision made after President Barack Obama said he wanted to feel assured that the Americans could “fight their way out of Pakistan.”
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/bin-laden-raidbin-laden-raid-picturesbin-laden-raid-dogbin-laden-raid-photo-774139.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/bin-laden-raidbin-laden-raid-picturesbin-laden-raid-dogbin-laden-raid-photo-774139.jpg) [34]Now, consider the following climactic New Yorker account of Obama meeting with the squadron commander after it’s all over, with bin Laden dead and the troops home and safe. Schmidle decides to call the commander “James…the names of all the covert operators mentioned in this story have been changed.” The anecdote will feature a canine, one who, in true furry dog story fashion, had already been introduced early in the New Yorker piece, as “Cairo” (it’s not clear whether the dog’s name, too, was changed):

As James talked about the raid, he mentioned Cairo’s role. “There was a dog?” Obama interrupted. James nodded and said that Cairo was in an adjoining room, muzzled, at the request of the Secret Service.
“I want to meet that dog,” Obama said.
“If you want to meet the dog, Mr. President, I advise you to bring treats,” James joked. Obama went over to pet Cairo, but the dog’s muzzle was left on.
Here’s the ending:

Before the President returned to Washington, he posed for photographs with each team member and spoke with many of them, but he left one thing unsaid. He never asked who fired the kill shot, and the SEALs never volunteered to tell him.
Why did the president not want to ask for specifics on the most important parts of the operation—but seemed so interested in a dog that participated? While it is certainly plausible that this happened, we should be wary of one of the oldest p.r. tricks around—get people cooing over an animal, while the real action is elsewhere.
Certainly, Obama’s reaction differs dramatically from that of other previous presidents who always demanded detailed briefings and would have stayed on top of it all throughout—including fellow Democrats JFK, Carter and Clinton. At minimum, it shows a degree of caution or ceremony based upon a desire not to know too much—or an understanding that he may not ask. Does anyone doubt that Bill Clinton would have been on watch 24/7 during this operation, parsing legal, political and operational details throughout, and would have demanded to know who felled America’s most wanted?
Summing up about the reliability of this account, which is now likely to become required reading for every student in America, long into the future:

It is based on reporting by a man who fails to disclose that he never spoke to the people who conducted the raid, or that his father has a long background himself running such operations (this even suggests the possibility that Nicholas Schmidle’s own father could have been one of those “unnamed sources.”)
It seems to have depended heavily on trusting second-hand accounts by people with a poor track record for accurate summations, and an incentive to spin.
The alleged decisions on killing bin Laden and disposing of his body lack credibility.
The DNA evidence that the SEALs actually got their man is questionable.
Though certain members of Congress say they have seen photos of the body (or, to be precise, a body), the rest of us have not seen anything.
Promised photos of the ceremonial dumping of the body at sea have not materialized.
The eyewitnesses from the house—including the surviving wives—have disappeared without comment.
We weren’t allowed to hear from the raid participants. And on August 6, seventeen Navy SEALs died when their helicopter was shot down in Afghanistan. We’re told that fifteen of them came, amazingly, from the same SEAL Team 6 that carried out the Abbottabad raid—but that none of the dead were present for the raid. We do get to hear the stories of those men, and their names (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hOyllMzkXslCN130tJqvunn2SApQ?docId=8f2597e93 d0f4cfd986a4c209932608d) [35].
Of course, if any of those men had been in the Abbottabad raid—or knew anything about it of broad public interest, we’d be none the wiser—because, the only “reliable sources” still available (and featured by the New Yorker)are military and intelligence professionals, coming out of a long tradition of cover-ups and fabrications.
Meanwhile, we have this president, this one who according to the magazine article didn’t ask about the core issues—why this man was killed, who killed him, under whose orders, what would be done with the body.
Well, he may not want answers. But we ought to want them. Otherwise, it’s all just a game.
http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Navy-Seals-Bloodbath-In-Abbottabad-Game-Cover1.jpg (http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Navy-Seals-Bloodbath-In-Abbottabad-Game-Cover1.jpg)
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Photo Sources: 1 (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5186/5684420385_a0c4602be8.jpg) [36],2 (http://www.baby-ace.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Nicholas-Schmidle-300x206.jpg) [37],3 (http://img1-cdn.newser.com/square-image/56588-20110331225310/cia-waterboarded-gitmo-detainee-183-times-in-a-month.jpeg) [38],4 (http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/Images/2010/12/5/2010125135551452811_20.jpg) [39],5 (http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_free_images/0519-1010-0717-2634_president_barack_obama_listening_to_john_bren nans_report_o.jpg) [40],6 (http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/files/brennan_0.jpg) [41],7 (http://www.cbsnews.com/i/tim/2011/05/02/white-house-situation-room1_620x350.jpg) [42],8 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/newamerica/4641549651/in/set-72157624016564827/) [30],9 (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_CflKyVeMiw/TcNRuknLFWI/AAAAAAAAHkI/iqTdlNQOeAI/s400/bin%252Bladen%252Braid%25252Cbin%252Bladen%252Brai d%252Bpictures%25252Cbin%252Bladen%252Braid%252Bdo g%25252Cbin%252Bladen%252Braid%252Bphoto-774139.jpg) [43],10 (http://www.muckety.com/relationPhotos/wh_John_Brennan_and_Obama.jpg) [44],11 (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OV1YrxTly2c/TcciLmNO6CI/AAAAAAAAAEg/YvSu-yy3gHU/s1600/Navy-Seals-Bloodbath-In-Abbottabad-Game-Cover.jpg) [45],12 (http://img1-cdn.newser.com/square-image/118544-20110513140114/osama-bin-laden-porn-pornographic-videos-found-in-abbottabad-compound.jpeg) [46],13 (http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2011/08/screen-shot-2011-08-08-at-121447-pm/large.png) [47],14 (http://img4.allvoices.com/thumbs/image/609/480/79117205-pakistani-soldier.jpg) [48],15 (http://henrykingsbury.net/Jessic-l.jpg) [49],16 (http://ethoctransibit.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/crowds-celebrate-the-deat-007.jpg) [50],17 (http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-01/51417826.jpg) [51],18 (http://dailyqi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Osama-bin-Ladens-compound-in-Abbottabad-Pakistan-where-he-was-killed-by-in-a-raiding-operation-by-U.S.-Navy-SEALS.-Photo-U.S.Department-of-Defense.-Wikimedia-Commons..jpg) [52]

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URL to article: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/17/raidbinladen/
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[2] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/LET-T-01.jpg
[3] exclusive: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle?currentPage=all
[4] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/large2.png
[5] noted: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/freelance-journalist-scores-coup-with-account-of-bin-laden-raid/2011/08/02/gIQAEiaeqI_story.html
[6] this: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/07/27/the-ny-times%E2%80%99-ostrich-act-on-jfk-assassination-getting-old/
[7] Family of Secrets: http://www.amazon.com/Family-Secrets-Americas-Invisible-Government/dp/1608190064/
[8] recently: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/11/september-11th-anniversary-richard-clarke-s-explosive-cia-cover-up-charge.html
[9] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Jessic-l.jpg
[10] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/images.jpg
[11] here: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/05/12/demanding-the-evidence-on-abbottabad-even-the-media-establishment-is-wary/
[12] here: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/05/05/more-questions-on-bin-laden/
[13] here: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/05/03/12-questions-about-bin-laden/
[14] Continue to page 2 of 4: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/17/raidbinladen/2/
[15] click here to donate: http://whowhatwhy.com/donate/
[16] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/51417826.jpg
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[18] Continue to page 3 of 4: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/17/raidbinladen/3/
[19] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/5684420385_a0c4602be8.jpg
[20] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/cia-waterboarded-gitmo-detainee-183-times-in-a-month1.jpeg
[21] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2010125135551452811_20.jpg
[22] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0519-1010-0717-2634_president_barack_obama_listening_to_john_bren nans_report_o1.jpg
[23] here: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/04/29/the-cia-pentagon-shuffle-the-fake-story-and-the-real-one/
[24] here: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/04/27/musical-chairs-in-cia-and-pentagon-now-name-that-tune/
[25] Continue to page 4 of 4: http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/17/raidbinladen/4/
[26] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/a.jpg
[27] here: http://seaport.spa.com/seaport/views/includes/N00178-05-D-4592-MUT1%20Mod%2020%20Redacted.pdf
[28] here: http://www.dvidshub.net/news/38250/ii-mef-showcases-its-irregular-warfare-capabilities-qdr-panel#.TkpVNILmuAk
[29] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Nicholas-Schmidle-300x206.jpg
[30] photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/newamerica/4641549651/in/set-72157624016564827/
[31] panel: http://www.newamerica.net/events/2010/warring_futures
[32] website: http://www.nicholasschmidle.com/bio.html
[33] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/wh_John_Brennan_and_Obama.jpg
[34] Image: http://whowhatwhy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/bin-laden-raidbin-laden-raid-picturesbin-laden-raid-dogbin-laden-raid-photo-774139.jpg
[35] names: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hOyllMzkXslCN130tJqvunn2SApQ?docId=8f2597e93 d0f4cfd986a4c209932608d
[36] 1: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5186/5684420385_a0c4602be8.jpg
[37] 2: http://www.baby-ace.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Nicholas-Schmidle-300x206.jpg
[38] 3: http://img1-cdn.newser.com/square-image/56588-20110331225310/cia-waterboarded-gitmo-detainee-183-times-in-a-month.jpeg
[39] 4: http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/Images/2010/12/5/2010125135551452811_20.jpg
[40] 5: http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_free_images/0519-1010-0717-2634_president_barack_obama_listening_to_john_bren nans_report_o.jpg
[41] 6: http://afpak.foreignpolicy.com/files/brennan_0.jpg
[42] 7: http://www.cbsnews.com/i/tim/2011/05/02/white-house-situation-room1_620x350.jpg
[43] 9: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_CflKyVeMiw/TcNRuknLFWI/AAAAAAAAHkI/iqTdlNQOeAI/s400/bin%252Bladen%252Braid%25252Cbin%252Bladen%252Brai d%252Bpictures%25252Cbin%252Bladen%252Braid%252Bdo g%25252Cbin%252Bladen%252Braid%252Bphoto-774139.jpg
[44] 10: http://www.muckety.com/relationPhotos/wh_John_Brennan_and_Obama.jpg
[45] 11: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OV1YrxTly2c/TcciLmNO6CI/AAAAAAAAAEg/YvSu-yy3gHU/s1600/Navy-Seals-Bloodbath-In-Abbottabad-Game-Cover.jpg
[46] 12: http://img1-cdn.newser.com/square-image/118544-20110513140114/osama-bin-laden-porn-pornographic-videos-found-in-abbottabad-compound.jpeg
[47] 13: http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2011/08/screen-shot-2011-08-08-at-121447-pm/large.png
[48] 14: http://img4.allvoices.com/thumbs/image/609/480/79117205-pakistani-soldier.jpg
[49] 15: http://henrykingsbury.net/Jessic-l.jpg
[50] 16: http://ethoctransibit.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/crowds-celebrate-the-deat-007.jpg
[51] 17: http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-01/51417826.jpg
[52] 18: http://dailyqi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Osama-bin-Ladens-compound-in-Abbottabad-Pakistan-where-he-was-killed-by-in-a-raiding-operation-by-U.S.-Navy-SEALS.-Photo-U.S.Department-of-Defense.-Wikimedia-Commons..jpg

Magda Hassan
12-20-2011, 04:42 AM
What The Government Told Gizmodo About Osama Bin Laden’s Body Posted by HAL9000 on December 19, 2011
Amazing read. Sam Biddle writes on Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/5868514/pentagon-tells-gizmodo-it-has-no-visual-evidence-of-bin-laden-raid-or-burial):

Months ago, I asked the Pentagon for its visual records of Osama bin Laden’s sea burial under the Freedom of Information Act. Today, I received a thick packet of No— a complete denial that any records exist. Read it.
The core of the response is this: the Office of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, United States Special Operations Command, and the Department of the Navy all had their records searched. Nothing. Admiral Mike Mullen’s email was scanned. Nothing. The Pentagon claims not a single person aboard the USS Carl Vinson, where Bin Laden’s remains were disposed of, took a single picture. Not a single email from the ship makes reference to photo or video. Essentially: nobody in the military has evidence. So did these things ever exist? If so, they’re in a filing cabinet at the CIA (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-list-gruesome-osama-bin-laden-death-photos/story?id=14626404#.TupUSSNSS2t), where they’ll be safe for the rest of time.

Copy of documents here (http://www.disinfo.com/2011/12/what-the-government-told-gizmodo-about-osama-bin-laden%E2%80%99s-body/)

Carsten Wiethoff
12-20-2011, 07:32 AM
Hahahahaha....

SOMEONE is definitely lying here.
I quote MSNBC from May 2, 2011:


CAIRO (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=CAIRO&sty=h&form=msdate) — The at-sea burial of Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden was videotaped and probably will be publicly released soon, two Pentagon officials said Monday.
The officials said photos of the body before its disposal in the North Arabian Sea on Monday also may be released. The officials spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because decisions on releasing the materials were pending.



I mean, it would not be the first time that "Pentagon officials" are purposely talking bullshit, but on the other hand it would also not be the first time the Pentagon denies having certain documents, which in reality do exist.

I tend to the opinion that SOME records of SOMETHING being dumped into the sea SOMEWHERE certainly were produced and meant to be published, but that it was decided to not give out ANYTHING which could be used as proof of criminal activity in case it turns out to be fabricated evidence. Same with the alleged video of Bin Ladens death, which may or may not exist and may or may not show Bin Laden and may or may not have been filmed on location in Abbotabad. I am certain that any FOIA for this will be returned with either "National Security" or "Does Not Exist", possibly both.https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.png

Magda Hassan
12-20-2011, 09:00 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V_kSd7Uimg

Peter Lemkin
12-20-2011, 10:36 AM
What is he dead AGAIN?! :loco:

Jan Klimkowski
12-20-2011, 07:20 PM
Magda - that video is of some black guy realizing he's gonna get horse whipped, lynched and burnt alive for tossing a KKK Grand Wizard out of his chopper....

There are some things you simply can't do in Amerika.

Ed Jewett
12-21-2011, 02:39 AM
.. and the North Korean is in a glass casket, the POTUS is looking in his own mirror, and somewhere someone is perfecting something even more sinister than the three of them sharing beverages at a private retreat.

Magda Hassan
01-06-2012, 08:16 AM
Totally in keeping with the whole OBL legend and theater. Can't wait to see what happens in the next installment after the Riechenbach falls finale.

CIA leaked bin Laden operation details to Sony

Get short URL (https://rt.com/usa/news/sony-osama-king-hollywood-269/)
email story to a friend (https://rt.com/emailstory/?doc_id=81269&type_doc=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Frt.com%2Fusa%2Fnews%2Fsony-osama-king-hollywood-269%2F%3Ffb_xd_fragment) print version (https://rt.com/usa/news/sony-osama-king-hollywood-269/print/)
Published: 06 January, 2012, 01:32


https://rt.com/files/usa/news/sony-osama-king-hollywood-269/bin-osama-laden.n.jpg

Osama bin Laden (AFP Photo / Site Intelligence Group / HO)

TRENDS: Osama Bin Laden killed (https://rt.com/trends/osama-bin-laden-killed/) SOPA (https://rt.com/trends/stop-online-piracy-act/)
TAGS: Movies (https://rt.com/tags/movies/), History (https://rt.com/tags/history/), USA (https://rt.com/tags/usa/), Media (https://rt.com/tags/media/), Culture (https://rt.com/tags/culture/)

While the White House went to great lengths to keep the details of last year’s raid on the Osama bin Laden compound from penetrating the public peripheral, investigators are questioning how much intel the Pentagon passed to hotshots in Hollywood.
Lawmakers say that the May 2011 event that nearly ended the War on Terror was among the most secretive in the history of the CIA, and the Obama administration has since shunned the public from any details pertaining to the plan even after the former al-Qaeda leader’s execution and burial at sea. As skeptics scorned President Obama for his lack of transparency in the process and demanded proof, the White House largely left details of the event and what occurred before and after locked up in Washington.
According to Rep. Peter King (R-NY), insiders in Tinsletown were given the key.
King, who leads the House Homeland Security Committee, has for months questioned the relationship between the Pentagon and Hollywood. Although talks of a bin Laden biopic have allegedly existed since shortly after the September 11 terrorist attacks, director Kathryn Bigelow and screenwriter Mark Boal have been linked to an upcoming film that will dramatically reenact the May raid on the silver screen since as early as August of this year.
Bigelow and Boal previously teamed up for the 2008 release The Hurt Locker, a film which revealed tales of the United States’ recent involvements in Iraq.
A link between Washington and Hollywood has long been existent, but King fears that the two being in cahoots can this time cause a great gaffe in terms of how the American intelligence community handles information.
The US has already gone after Pakistani officials whom are believed to have divulged details of the raid. In Pakistan, those working with American authorities without state-given permission have been on trial for sentences that carry the death penalty.
In August, King told the inspectors general of the Pentagon and the CIA that Sony and Bigelow had been given "top-level access to the most classified mission in history."
The "alleged collaboration belies a desire for transparency in favor of a cinematographic view of history," King wrote at the time.
“Filmmakers, if they want to make a film about the war, any war, and they want to use military technology, they have to have the support of the Pentagon,” war correspondent Keith Harmon Snow told RT. “Scripts go to Pentagon, the Pentagon reviews the scripts and approves or rejects any collaborations. Directors know exactly what they’re doing. They get their funding and their weaponry from the Pentagon, it’s a very close relationship.”
That relationship between the two, said Snow, has been made clear in not just films like The Hurt Locker, but in flicks ranging from King Kong to Rambo.

America at large, on the other hand, continues to be left out of the equation of the relationship between Washington and Hollywood. The results could be much more damaging than increasing a sense of alienation for the American people against their own government, however. According to the letter King penned to the Pentagon in August, the film in the works "is bound to increase such leaks, and undermine these organizations' hard-won reputations as `quiet professionals.’”
Now months after King cautioned authorities, an official investigation will begin to probe any connection between the two coasts that would be considered improper. King says that the Pentagon’s inspector general sent him a letter last month that revealed that the DoD will now investigate any "actions taken by Defense Department personnel related to the release of information to the filmmakers."
In November, King said the CIA would be looking to develop "single point of reference that will govern future interactions with the entertainment industry,” although such move might come as too little too soon after the two entities have long established a relationship that has pumped money into the war machine while perpetuating propaganda to moviegoers across the country.
Following King’s initial attack on the link between Hollywood and the DoD, White House spokesman Jay Carney said such allegations were “ridiculous” and “simply false,” a response which the lawmaker called “shockingly dismissive.”
The connection between the DoD and Hollywood is one that runs deep, but is also one marred by some serious contradictions. While the entertainment industry is going to great lengths to insure that their films are made possible by working hand-in-hand with the Pentagon on script approval and props, the end result in this case will be the glorification of one of America’s biggest secrets for the entire globe to see on the big screen.
Meanwhile, Sony, who has largely invested in the bin Laden film, has spent immense amounts of money on lobbying on the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and The PROTECT IP Act (Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property Act of 2011) to make sure that their products are protected on the Internet. It would seem as if Sony is largely spending to preserve their own intellectual property and keep their contributions to American society free from infringement, yet are more than willing to profit off of a massive intelligence community leak.
Sony had recently been labeled as an adamant supporter of SOPA, a controversial legislation still on Capitol Hill that will largely obstruct the Internet under the guise of protecting copyrighted material. The bill, which came under criticism along with the recent passing of the National Defense Authorization Act that could lead to the indefinite detention of American citizens, have been gauged as critics as attempts to increase a police state in America.
Sony has lobbied in favor of the act, which would largely impact the World Wide Web as a whole, limiting what can be published online and increasing penalties for allegedly guilty parties. After hacktivists with the group Anonymous proposed a cyberwar on the entertainment giant, Sony Computer Entertainment withdrew support of SOPA. Sony/ATV Music Publishing, Sony Music Entertainment and Sony Music Nashville are all still listed as supporters however, and the Entertainment Software Association, of which SEC is a member, is still adamantly for the passing of SOPA.
Additionally, Sony had lobbied in favor of the PROTECT IP Act, specifically spending funds on persuading congress to strongly enforce culprits believed of online copyright infringement. https://rt.com/usa/news/sony-osama-king-hollywood-269/

Jan Klimkowski
01-06-2012, 07:38 PM
I have zero doubt that Hollywood extravaganza The Execution of Osama Bin Laden will be as ridiculous as The Saving of Jessica Lynch...

Peter Lemkin
02-26-2012, 06:16 AM
ABBOTTABAD, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan was more than halfway done Sunday demolishing the three-story compound where Osama bin Laden was killed by U.S. commandos last May, erasing a concrete reminder of a painful and embarrassing chapter in the country's history.

Rings of police kept spectators and journalists away from the compound, which the government began tearing down Saturday night under powerful flood lights without providing prior notice. Three mechanized backhoes ripped into the building, and large trucks carried away the debris, according to an Associated Press reporter who was able to get close enough to see the work.

Pakistan was outraged by the covert American raid in the northwestern town of Abbottabad because it was not told about it beforehand — a decision the U.S. explained was driven by concerns that someone in the government might tip off bin Laden.

The terror leader's death was cheered across the globe, but many Pakistanis were angry that the U.S. violated its territory and that its troops were powerless to stop American soldiers from attacking a compound located next to the country's elite military academy.

The backhoes — heavy machines with strong crane-like digging arms — have torn down the tall boundary walls around bin Laden's compound and have destroyed more than half of the main building, where the al-Qaida chief lived for years with his wives and children.

Army soldiers who were guarding the compound Saturday night handed authority over to the police in the morning and left. Work continued Sunday morning but halted around midday for unknown reasons.

Pakistani officials have declined to say why they decided to begin demolition.

Residents of the normally sleepy town of Abbottabad were divided on what the government should do with the compound in the aftermath of the raid. Some thought it should be destroyed, but others believed it should be turned into a tourist attraction to help the town earn money. There was always the danger, however, that it could also draw al-Qaida supporters.

American officials said they buried bin Laden's body at sea to avoid giving his followers a burial place that could become a makeshift shrine.

Many U.S. officials expressed disbelief that bin Laden could have lived in Abbottabad for around six years without the Pakistani government knowing. But the U.S. has not found any evidence that senior Pakistani officials knew of the al-Qaida chief's whereabouts.

The U.S. Navy SEALs who attacked bin Laden's compound on May 2 infiltrated by helicopter from neighboring Afghanistan. The raid, which lasted around 40 minutes, was a serious blow to the already troubled U.S.-Pakistan relationship.

Pakistan responded by kicking out more than 100 U.S. troops training Pakistanis in counterterrorism operations and reduced the level of intelligence cooperation.

Some members of Congress called on the U.S. to cut of the billions of dollars of military and civilian aid to Pakistan unless Islamabad explained bin Laden's presence in Abbottabad and boosted cooperation on the Afghan war. The aid has continued, although at a somewhat lower level.

Charles Drago
02-26-2012, 02:46 PM
Rumor has it that "Gary Mack" Dunkel will be named head of "The Second Floor," a new "museum" to be built on the site of the Bin Laded "killing."

And that the compound will be renamed "There Was Never A CIA-Bin Laden Deal-y Plaza."

Jan Klimkowski
02-26-2012, 04:40 PM
The rumour I heard was that Walt Disney was about to open a theme park named SEALWorld.

Here's the soundtrack:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmILOL55xP0

Jan Klimkowski
02-26-2012, 04:49 PM
Alternately, here's a far more honest soundtrack.

The essence of Full Metal Jacket cut to Paint It Black:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj7mEyjvXKA

Magda Hassan
02-29-2012, 12:16 PM
Did Private Spy Shop Get US Intel From Bin Laden Raid?
Emails released by WikiLeaks suggest Stratfor may have gained access to highly sensitive material gathered from Osama bin Laden's Abbottabad compound.—By David Corn (http://motherjones.com/authors/david-corn)
| Mon Feb. 27, 2012 11:49 AM PST





http://mjcdn.motherjones.com/preset_12/osama-bin-laden_0.jpg Wikimedia Commons (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bin_laden_image_2.png)
On May 1, 2011, not only did US special forces kill Osama bin Laden, they collected a treasure trove of intelligence from his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan—material that would be of tremendous value to analysts, both in and out of government. Less than two weeks later, Fred Burton, the vice president for intelligence of Stratfor, a private US intelligence firm, was telling colleagues within the secretive company that he could get his hands on the Abbottabad booty. If so, that would be quite a coup for Stratfor, which peddles expensive intelligence reports on economic, security, and geopolitical matters to private clients, such as major corporations, around the world.
"I can get access to the materials seized from the OBL safe house," writes Stratfor's vice president for intelligence.
This week, WikiLeaks published 214 internal Stratfor emails that it was provided (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/feb/27/wikileaks-stratfor-emails-anonymous?newsfeed=true) by Anonymous, the online activist collective that hacked into Stratfor's servers and swiped 5 million emails. In one of those messages (http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1146487_re-obl-take-quick-response-needed-.html), sent by Burton to a "Secure List" of Stratfor colleagues on May 12, 2011, he noted,

I can get access to the materials seized from the OBL safe house.
What are the top (not 45) questions we want addressed.
Within minutes, Sean Noonan, a tactical analyst at Stratfor, wrote back:

1 specific operational plans
2 communications with franchise groups (like AQAP [Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula])
3. connections to anyone associated with the Pakistani state.
This sort of information—what Al Qaeda was planning and with whom it was working—could certainly be sold to Stratfor's clients for a good price. And this email raises a question: Has Stratfor, which maintains various contracts (http://www.usaspending.gov/search?query=&searchtype=&formFields=eyJTZWFyY2hUZXJtIjpbInN0cmF0Zm9yIl19) with the Defense Department and other federal agencies, penetrated the US intelligence establishment for its own benefit? ("Having had our property stolen, we will not be victimized twice by submitting to questioning about them," Stratfor said in a statement on Monday; the company did not respond to a message from Mother Jones.)
The next day, Burton wrote back to Noonan:

More on # 3 --
Several /in ISI and Pak Mil, less than 12.
More on this later.
Burton seemed to be suggesting that the intelligence obtained at the compound (http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/08/osama-bin-laden-killing-media) indicated that less than a dozen officials working with Pakistani intelligence and military were somehow connected to bin Laden. He didn't cite any specific materials or documents.
Noonan was excited. He emailed back: "awesome. Please see what you can find out about what kind of department they are in, or area they cover." Another Stratfor employee, Kamran Bokhari, replied to Burton's note: "No surprises here. We will never find out their departments but their ranks would be very telling."
In response, Burton gave the impression that he might indeed be able to learn more of what was in the cache of OBL intelligence. He emailed, "I may be able to get that, let me ask." And hours later he sent this email.

Same response as before:
Mid to senior level ISI and Pak Mil with one retired Pak Mil General that had knowledge of the OBL arrangements and safe house.
Names unk [unknown] to me and not provided.
Specific ranks unk to me and not provided.
But, I get a very clear sense we (US intel) know names and ranks. I also do not know if we have passed this info to the GOP. [Government of Pakistan]
If I was in command, I would not pass the info to the GOP, because we can't trust them. I would piece meal the names off and bury in a list of other non-related names for internal ISI traces in a non-alerting fashion, to see what the Pakis tell us.
I may also trade one or two names for the captured tail rudder.
Burton seemed to have informal—or unofficial access—to this information. (He didn't describe it in these emails.) And the final line about trading a captured tail rudder—from the helicopter disabled (and then blown up) at the compound?—for the identities of Pakistani military or intelligence officials connected to bin Laden is, to say the least, intriguing.
The released emails do not indicate whether Burton truly possessed significant access to the bin Laden material—and what he had to do to obtain such access. But as a former deputy chief of the State Department's counterterrorism division, he could be expected to have contacts within the US intelligence community that could feed him information of this sort.
Burton, who has not responded to an email query, might not be the best spy. In a 2008 "Internal Use Only" email (http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/339396_re-insight-the-dems-and-dirty-tricks-internal-use-only-pls.html) to Stratfor colleagues, sent out after the presidential election, he claimed to have sources with information on Democratic "Dirty Tricks," noting,

The hunt is on for the sleezy Russian money into O-mans coffers. A smoking gun has already been found. Will get more on this when the time is right. My source was too giddy to continue. Can you say Clinton and ChiCom funny money? This also becomes a matter of how and when to out.
The Russian-money-to-Obama story never materialized, but perhaps Burton was better connected concerning the OBL raid. The emails he sent on this matter ought to cause intelligence watchers to wonder whether Stratfor has burrowed into US intelligence and sensitive information has been compromised—and whether Burton and his cloak-and-dagger colleagues (http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/wikileaks-strafor-leak-corporate-intelligence) exploit their ties to US spies for their own good.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/did-stratfor-access-bin-laden-intel

Magda Hassan
03-02-2012, 12:43 PM
WikiLeaks emails suggest Bin Laden corpse ‘brought to America’ 2 hours ago 2,448 Views [/URL]


http://s1.jrnl.ie/media/2012/03/cc-whitehouse-sitroom-390x285.jpgThe now-famous picture of Barack Obama and others in the White House situation room, watching details of the raid that caught and killed Osama bin Laden.

Image: The White House

INTERNAL EMAILS in a major global intelligence firm, published by WikiLeaks, suggest that Osama bin Laden’s body may have been brought to America after he was killed by US Navy Seals.
The emails, from the intelligence firm Stratfor which offered services to major international corporations, are being published by the whistleblowing site having been obtained in an attack on Stratfor’s servers by the Anonymous movement.
In one email, sent by Stratfor’s vice-president for intelligence Fred Burton – and timestamped just hours after Barack Obama announced details of the Pakistani raid that killed bin Laden – Burton declares (http://www.thejournal.ie/wikileaks-emails-suggest-bin-laden-corpse-brought-to-america-371301-Mar2012/#comments):

Reportedly, we took the body with us. Thank goodness.



Another, 25 minutes later (http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1102718_-alpha-body-bound-for-dover-de-on-cia-plane-.html) – with the subject ‘Body bound for Dover, DE on CIA plane’ adds: “Than [sic] onward to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Bethesda”.
‘Dover, DE’ refers to Dover in Delaware, the site of a major air force base around 175km from Washington.
In another email (http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1097638_re-obl-s-corpse-.html) sent an hour later, Burton – who is considered a leading expert on terrorism and security, and who previously served as the second-in-command at the Department of State’s counterterrorism division - adds:

If body dumped at sea, which I doubt, the touch is very Adolph Eichman [sic] like. The Tribe did the same thing with the Nazi’s ashes.We would want to photograph, DNA, fingerprint, etc.
His body is a crime scene and I don’t see the FBI nor DOJ letting that happen.




Adolf Eichmann was a leading organiser of the Holocaust who later fled to Argentina on a fake passport until he was captured by Mossad and brought to trial in Israel. He was executed and cremated and his ashes spread at sea, so that there could be no memorial to him.
In response to that email, the company’s CEO George Friedman – a child of Holocaust survivors – wrote:

Eichmann was seen alive for many months on trial before being sentenced to death and executed. No one wanted a monument to him so they cremated him. But i dont know anyone who claimed he wasnt eicjhman.No comparison with suddenly burying him at sea without any chance to view him which i doubt happened.




Some seven hours later, Burton responded again:

Body is Dover bound, should be here by now



While it is not clear whether Burton is relying on any internal military source, or merely making an educated guess – and while it should be noted that the email exchanges begin with the word ‘reportedly’ – the emails, if true, would undermine the US claim that bin Laden’s body was buried at sea within hours of his death.
Previous emails from the Stratfor cache, which WikiLeaks says is made up of some five million emails, suggest that the Pakistani intelligence forces were aware of bin Laden’s presence in the country (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/02/wikileaks-publishes-pakistan-osama-bin-laden.html) – a charge Pakistan has consistently denied.
The compound in which bin Laden lived and was killed, just outside Abbottabad, was torn down earlier this week.
[url]http://www.thejournal.ie/wikileaks-emails-suggest-bin-laden-corpse-brought-to-america-371301-Mar2012/

Jan Klimkowski
03-02-2012, 05:39 PM
Wonder what Skull and Bones will do with the Baphomet - the head of this random old geezer shot in Pakistan.

Will they lose his brain?

Or will they plunder the secret tomb as a fratboy initiation prank - as per Geronimo?

Magda Hassan
03-16-2012, 12:19 AM
Abbottabad commission findings contradict US version: reportDAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/author/dawn-com)8 hours ago (http://www.dawn.com/2012/03/15)





The compound in Abbottabad where the former al Qaeda chief was killed in a US forces raid on May 2, 2011.—File Photo
ISLAMABAD: A member of the high-level Pakistani Abbottabad commission tasked with detailing the May 2 incidents in Abbottabad that resulted in the killing of Osama bin Laden, has completed recording his findings, according to a BBC Urdu report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2012/03/120315_osama_commission_report_ar.shtml)published on Thursday.
The findings are based on statements from bin Laden’s family, his neighbours, and the government officials who entered the area after the raid, said the report.
Questioning the American position on the raid, the details contradict, and are different from, the version of events described by the US. The findings will also be the first official version of the events from the Pakistani side.
A major question raised in the report is the finding that only a single bullet-casing and bullet-mark was found from the room which was allegedly filled with more than half a dozen armed companions of the former al Qaeda chief.
The bullet mark was found on a wall in bin Laden’s bedroom, the same room where he was killed. The mark is so high on the wall that it appears as if the man firing bullet was on his knees. The commission’s experts have concluded that this bullet caused bin Laden’s death, and possibly hit the wall after tearing through a part of his skull, adds the BBC report.
Other than this, no other bullet-casing or bullet-marks were found from the compound. However, the commission’s members found more than a dozen Klashnikov rifles – some less than a yard away from the dead bodies, adds the report.
The report raises the question that why did bin Laden’s companions not fire a single bullet at the US Marines, because the American version of events states that not a single soldier was hit. Now if no soldier was hit, and not even a single shot had gone astray — which was proved by the absence of bullet casings and marks — then why did Osama’s companions not fire a single bullet, the commission findings inquire.
http://www.dawn.com/2012/03/15/abbottabad-commission-findings-contradict-us-version-report.html

Peter Lemkin
03-16-2012, 06:15 AM
Would like to see this report in readable English - the summary above is obviously a rough and fast translation from the Urdu and not very clear; however,


Questioning the American position on the raid, the details contradict, and are different from, the version of events described by the US

quelle surprise! America lying - I'm shocked, shocked~!

Magda Hassan
03-16-2012, 06:46 AM
If it is any help http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2012/03/120315_osama_commission_report_ar.shtml I don't know Urdu...

Peter Lemkin
03-16-2012, 07:10 AM
If it is any help http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2012/03/120315_osama_commission_report_ar.shtml I don't know Urdu...

I'm sure there will be a good translation on the internet by later today...if not there already....I can wait. :what: [My Urdu is very rusty~]

Carsten Wiethoff
04-17-2012, 01:07 PM
According to the German "Der Spiegel", Osama Bin Ladens three widows, his children and a grandchild, who were found left behind in Abbotabad after the shooting of Osama Bin Laden will be free tonight at midnight and then be deported to Saudi Arabia. They had been convicted to 45 days in prison for illegal stay in Pakistan.

The youngest, Amal Ahmed al-Sadah, is of Yemeni nationality and is expected to return there.

Theoretically they will be free to speak to whoever they want after their release.

Carsten Wiethoff
04-20-2012, 11:07 AM
From http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/bin-laden-widow-wants-british-life/story-fn6e1m7z-1226333870169

And with breathtaking gall, she said, "I would love to meet the royal family."
Besotted Amal Abdulfattah al Sadah, 29 - who wed bin Laden when she was 17 because she wanted a "holy warrior" husband - supported his war on the West and went on the run with him after 9/11.
She was wounded in the leg trying to shield him when US commandos shot him dead in Pakistan, aged 54, last year.
She was even tipped to take over as boss of al-Qaeda.
But as Ms Sadah and bin Laden's two other wives were due to be kicked out of Pakistan, it was thought she may try to claim asylum, whining that she faces death or persecution if she is made to return to her native Yemen.

She denies being an extremist, claiming she longs to live with her family in the country her husband despised.
Her brother Zakaria al Sadah told The Sun, "We would definitely like to live in the UK - we have nothing against the UK or its people. Amal would migrate there if given a chance."
"She loves humanity and likes to live in a liberal environment," he added.

Jan Klimkowski
04-20-2012, 05:19 PM
Carsten - thanks for posting.

Just to contextualise, the two sources, Murdoch's right-wing gutter tabloid, The Sun, and the broadsheet organ of the British Conservative party, the Daily Telegraph, are currently furiously ranting about the failure to extradite Muslim cleric Qatada to Jordan.

The claim that these Bin Laden relatives want to live in the UK is perfect for their agenda of asserting that Britain can't deport terrorists and can't even prevent terrorists from immigrating to the UK.

The quotes from the Bin Laden family may be genuine. However, I'd like to see a source other than right wing hacks before viewing this story as anything other than propaganda feeding a particular agenda.

Jan Klimkowski
04-29-2012, 06:23 PM
Ooh lookee!

The Bogeyman lives beyond the grave.

"A Washington-based source" is anonymously briefing hacks that "documents found in the house where Osama bin Laden was killed a year ago show a close working relationship between top al-Qaida leaders and Mullah Omar, the overall commander of the Taliban".

And those hacks are spreading the propaganda nonsense.

Noone with a part-functioning brain and a memory of the exact same psyop being pulled again and again (remember the Saddam WMD documents in rubble fake?) will believe a word of this.

Sadly, though, it will serve its purpose and the agenda of the global Volkland Security Complex.



Bin Laden files show al-Qaida and Taliban leaders in close contact

Blow to Afghan peace hopes as documents reveal Bin Laden, Zawahiri and Omar discussed joint operations against Nato
Jason Burke

guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/29/bin-laden-al-qaida-taliban-contact), Sunday 29 April 2012 18.24 BST


Documents found in the house where Osama bin Laden was killed a year ago show a close working relationship between top al-Qaida leaders and Mullah Omar, the overall commander of the Taliban, including frequent discussions of joint operations against Nato forces in Afghanistan, the Afghan government and targets in Pakistan.

The communications show a three-way conversation between Bin Laden, his then deputy Ayman Zawahiri and Omar, who is believed to have been in Pakistan since fleeing Afghanistan after the collapse of his regime in 2001.

They indicate a "very considerable degree of ideological convergence", a Washington-based source familiar with the documents told the Guardian.

The news will undermine hopes of a negotiated peace in Afghanistan, where the key debate among analysts and policymakers is whether the Taliban – seen by many as following an Afghan nationalist agenda – might once again offer a safe haven to al-Qaida or like-minded militants, or whether they can be persuaded to renounce terrorism.

One possibility, experts say, is that although Omar built a strong relationship with Bin Laden and Zawahiri, other senior Taliban commanders see close alliance or co-operation with al-Qaida as deeply problematic.

Western intelligence officials estimate that there are less than 100 al-Qaida-linked fighters in Afghanistan, and last year the United Nations split its sanctions list to separate the Taliban and al-Qaida.

Both David Cameron and US secretary of state Hillary Clinton have said that some kind of political settlement involving the Taliban is key to the stability of Afghanistan once most western troops have withdrawn by 2014.

Some communications in the documents date back several years but others are said to be from only weeks before the raid on 2 May last year in which Bin Laden died.

"Questions and issues come up. They don't see eye to eye on everything but it's clear they understand they have an interest in co-operating [on attacks against Nato, Afghan government and Pakistani targets]," the source said. "Of those engaged in the conversation, two [Zawahiri and Omar] are still alive today and there is no reason to believe that either has substantially changed his views in the last year."

Zawahiri became leader of al-Qaida following Bin Laden's death.

The range of the al-Qaida senior leadership's interlocutors revealed by the documents has also surprised investigators, the source said.

Bin Laden appears to have been in direct or indirect communication with Nigerian-based militant group Boko Haram as well as many other militant outfits. As with the Taliban, the question of whether Boko Haram, which has been responsible for a series of suicide attacks and bombings in the last year, is in touch with al-Qaida or one of its affiliates has been hotly debated by analysts.

But documents in the cache show that leaders of the Nigerian group had been in contact with top levels of al-Qaida in the past 18 months – confirming claims made to the Guardian in January by a senior Boko Haram figure.

Other papers in the haul are now likely to be declassified. They include memos apparently dictated by Bin Laden urging followers to avoid indiscriminate attacks which kill Muslims and pondering a rebranding of al-Qaida under a new name.

The documents include memos stating broad strategic aims but little "hands-on" planning, according to sources.

Despite the correspondence with Omar and other groups, Bin Laden still appears to have been largely out of touch with the day to day working of his organisation. His communications were written on a computer in the compound in Abbottabad where he lived, loaded on to memory sticks and then sent from distant internet cafes by a courier. It was this courier who eventually led the CIA to the al-Qaida chief.

A reliable account of Bin Laden's life on the run can now be established, pieced together from the testimony, viewed by the Guardian, of one of Bin Laden's wives, the recollections of the ISI officers who interviewed her compiled by retired Pakistani army brigadier Shaukat Qadir, statements of militants detained by the US published by WikiLeaks and interviews with former US officials.

Following the collapse of the Taliban regime in November 2001, Bin Laden's wives and children fled Afghanistan , travelling first to Karachi, the vast Pakistani port city, where they spent several months. Bin Laden himself headed north into the remote Afghan province of Kunar after the battle of Tora Bora in December 2001. According to ISI officials quoted by Qadir, a senior militant detained by the ISI in 2006 told interrogators that Bin Laden had met Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the Afghan insurgent leader, in Kunar at this time. ISI officials also maintain that Khaled Sheikh Mohamed told them that the al-Qaida chief was there.

Former American officials this weekend told the Guardian that there was considerable intelligence indicating that Bin Laden was in eastern Afghanistan and making occasional journeys across the border into Pakistan at this time.

By the summer of 2004, Bin Laden appears to have moved into Pakistan permanently. According to the testimony of his youngest, Yemeni-born wife, she and her two children were reunited with her husband in a house in a remote district of the rugged Swat valley, in northwest Pakistan, in March 2004, before moving to another safe house in a small town called Haripur, 20 miles from Abbottabad, that autumn. In early summer 2005 the family then moved into the newly constructed compound where they would spend the next six years. They were joined there by Bin Laden's second wife and her three children.

According to ISI officers interviewed by Qadir, the location had been scouted a year previously by senior militant Abu Farraj al-Libbi who then travelled to Swat to get Bin Laden's approval for the move. The al-Qaida chief insisted that the land for the house be bought, not rented, and sketched out a design for the construction – currently in the possession of the ISI.

The al-Qaida leader himself evaded detection while on the move by pretending to be an ailing Pashtun former militant, still on Pakistan's wanted list, who hoped to return home to die, Qadir has written.

Western security officials believe Bin Laden's oldest wife joined him in Abbottabad after being released in deal between Iranian authorities and a Pakistani militant group holding an Iranian diplomat.

By November 2010, the crucial courier had been identified and located. He then led the hunters to the Abbottabad house.

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2012, 02:54 PM
Finding Bin Laden: The Truth Behind the Official Story
Thursday, 03 May 2012 09:07
By Gareth Porter, Truthout | Report

Posters of 22 fugitives, including Osama bin Laden, line a wall at the FBI headquarters in Washington, October 10, 2001. (Photo: Stephen Crowley / The New York Times)
A few days after US Navy Seals killed Osama bin Laden in a raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, a "senior intelligence official" briefing reporters on the materials seized from bin Laden's compound said the materials revealed that bin Laden had, "continued to direct even tactical details of the group's management." Bin Laden was, "not just a strategic thinker for the group," said the official. "He was active in operational planning and in driving tactical decisions." The official called the bin Laden compound, "an active command and control center."

The senior intelligence official triumphantly called the discovery of bin Laden's hideout, "the greatest intelligence success perhaps of a generation," and administration officials could not resist leaking to reporters that a key element in that success was that the CIA interrogators had gotten the name of bin Laden's trusted courier from al-Qaeda detainees at Guantanamo. CIA Director Leon Panetta was quite willing to leave the implication that some of the information had been obtained from detainees by "enhanced interrogation techniques."

Such was the official line at the time. But none of it was true. It is now clear that CIA officials were blatantly misrepresenting both bin Laden's role in al-Qaeda when he was killed and how the agency came to focus on his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

In fact, during his six years in Abbottabad, bin Laden was not the functioning head of al-Qaeda at all, but an isolated figurehead who had become irrelevant to the actual operations of the organization. The real story, told here for the first time, is that bin Laden was in the compound in Abbottabad because he had been forced into exile by the al-Qaeda leadership.

The CIA's claim that it found bin Laden on its own is equally false. In fact, the intensive focus on the compound in Abbottabad was the result of crucial intelligence provided by the Pakistani intelligence agency, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

Truthout has been able to reconstruct the real story of bin Laden's exile in Abbottabad, as well as how the CIA found him, thanks in large part to information gathered last year from Pakistani tribal and ISI sources by retired Pakistani Brig. Gen. Shaukat Qadir. But that information was confirmed, in essence, in remarks after the bin Laden raid by the same senior intelligence official cited above - remarks that have been ignored until now.

What the Bin Laden Documents Reveal

The initial claims about what the documents from the Abbottabad compound showed about bin Laden's role in al-Qaeda were not based on any substantive evidence because the documents had not even been read, much less analyzed by the CIA. That process would take six weeks of intensive work by the analysts, cyber-experts and translators, as the Associated Press reported June 8, 2011. But with roughly 95 percent of the work done, the picture that emerged from the documents was starkly different from what the press had been told when the country was riveted to the story.

Osama bin Laden had indeed come up with plenty of ideas about attacking US and Western targets, but officials now acknowledged to Associated Press that there was, "no evidence in the files that any of the ideas bin Laden proposed led to a specific action that was later carried out."

A month after the analysis of the bin Laden documents was completed, one official told CNN that they showed bin Laden writing about attacks on aircraft carrying Obama and Petraeus in Afghanistan. Another official familiar with the documents told the network, however, that they reflected bin Laden, "in his brainstorming mode." One official described a document in which bin Laden expressed interest in having a team plan attacks on the United States on the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. But, an official commenting on the entire collection of bin Laden documents told CNN, "[T]hese were ideas, not fully or even partially planned plots."

Eight months later, in March 2012, Washington Post columnist David Ignatius, whose writing invariably reflects what top national security officials want to see in the news media, was given a "small sample" of the documents by a "senior administration official." The two documents he chose to highlight - bin Laden's musings on shooting down aircraft with Obama or Petraeus on board and attacks on the tenth anniversary of 9/11 - had already been reported by CNN in July 2011. Acknowledging that al-Qaeda did not even have the military technology to shoot down a US plane, Ignatius observed that bin Laden, "still dreamed of pulling off another spectacular terror attack against the United States."

So, several months after the Abbottabad documents had been thoroughly analyzed and the results digested by senior administration officials, the administration was unable to cite a single piece of evidence that bin Laden had given orders for - or was even involved in discussing - a real, concrete plan for an al-Qaeda action, much less one that had actually been carried out. Far from depicting bin Laden as the day-to-day decisionmaker or even "master strategist" of al-Qaeda, the documents showed a man dreaming of glorious exploits that were unconnected with reality.

"Nobody Listened to His Rantings Anymore"

The reality reflected in the documents from the Abbottabad compound is that bin Laden had been exiled by the leadership of al-Qaeda because he had come to be seen as a loose cannon who was a danger to the organization. The train of events that led to bin Laden's holing up in the compound in Abbottabad began in August 2003, in a small village in Afghanistan's Nangarhar province, near the fabled caves of Tora Bora where he led a battle against US Special Forces in December 2001. It was there that the leadership of al-Qaeda conducted a series of extraordinary meetings on its most pressing problem: how to ease bin Laden out of his leadership role in the organization.

Those deliberations can now be revealed because Qadir, the retired 30-year veteran of the Pakistani Army, had served for years in South Waziristan alongside Mehsud tribesmen, with whom he had stayed in contact over the years. After the bin Laden raid, Qadir went back to his former comrades, and they introduced him to three of their relatives who had been couriers for Mehsud tribal militant leader Baitullah Mehsud in his contacts with al-Qaeda's second-in-command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, during the 2003 meetings.

Mehsud would become the head of the al-Qaeda affiliate organization Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) in 2007. But in 2009, Mehsud was killed in a drone strike and the organization was splintering over various issues. All three former couriers broke their ties with Hakimullah Mehsud, Baitullah Mehsud's successor as head of TTP. The political split in the Mehsud tribal community, followed by the killing of bin Laden, released the former couriers from their oaths of secrecy. In early August 2011, Qadir was able to meet separately with each of the three former Mehsud couriers in three different villages in South Waziristan, on the understanding that their names would not be revealed.

After bin Laden moved from the Tora Bora region of Afghanistan to South Waziristan in northwest Pakistan, his health continued to decline, according to the three former Mehsud couriers. Just what ailments were causing the deterioration was not clear, but he was no longer able to walk, and had to be moved by horseback from one house in South Waziristan to another for security reasons.

But an even greater concern of the al-Qaeda shura (or council), according to the former couriers, was what appeared to bin Laden's colleagues to be his obsession with the idea that al-Qaeda should attack and capture Pakistan's nuclear reactor at Kahuta. Zawahiri, the second-ranking al-Qaeda leader, who had the task of meeting personally with bin Laden, along with the rest of the shura tried to tell bin Laden that Kahuta was impenetrable. They pointed to the presence of a regular infantry battalion, air defense, guard dogs, mines and a laser security system guarding the facility. And anyway, as they pointed out to bin Laden, there were no nuclear weapons stored there.

But none of that seemed to matter to bin Laden, who seemed delusional on the issue. "Nobody listened to his rantings anymore," said one of the couriers in a conversation with Qadir. "He had become a physical liability and was going mad," another told Qadir a couple of days earlier. "He had become an object of ridicule," said the second courier, recalling that some of the militants in South Waziristan had become aware of his harangues on the subject and were starting to make jokes at bin Laden's expense. "You can't have a leader whose people ridicule him," he said.

Zawahiri had been running the day-to-day affairs of al-Qaeda, but bin Laden was still insisting on participating in major decisions. That situation led Zawahiri to propose during a series of meetings in August 2003 that bin Laden be forced to retire from active involvement in the organization's decisions. The other members of the shura supported him, according to all three former Mehsud tribal couriers.

The only question was how to get bin Laden to agree. The shura believed bin Laden would only listen to one man: Abu Ayoub Al Iraqi, who had accompanied bin Laden to Peshawar in the early 1980s and had been a mentor to bin Laden when he founded al-Qaeda, then faded into the background. The problem was, according to the ex-couriers, that only bin Laden knew how to contact him. So, the shura decided to present a plan to bin Laden for the capture of the Kahuta nuclear base on condition that it would be subject to the approval of Iraqi.

Bin Laden agreed with the proposal and a courier was dispatched to Iraqi. But unknown to bin Laden, the courier also carried a letter from Zawahiri detailing bin Laden's condition and requesting Iraqi's help in convincing him to retire voluntarily for his own safety. The courier returned from visiting Iraqi in September 2003 with cosmetic modifications of the plan, and with the advice that the shura had requested: bin Laden should be housed in a secure location from which he could issue orders, but Zawahiri should continue to act on bin Laden's behalf in the day-to-day affairs of the organization.

The plan was to let bin Laden believe that he would still be the leader of al-Qaeda from his new safe haven. In reality, the al-Qaeda leaders were sending him into an urban exile to get him off their backs.

The shura considered various options for permanent housing for bin Laden before deciding that he should live a secluded family life in a city that would not be too far from Pakistan's tribal areas, according to the Mehsud tribal sources. The third-ranking member of the hierarchy, Mustafa al-Uzayti, a Libyan better known by his alias Abu Faraj al Libi, was tasked with finding the best location for bin Laden and his family to reside, according to Qadir's Mehsud tribal sources.

Al Libi's first choice was Mardan, about 30 miles from Peshawar, but bin Laden's courier, who used the alias Sheikh Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, suggested that it was too dangerous because some pro-al-Qaeda individuals were constantly under surveillance by Pakistani and US intelligence agencies. He suggested Abbottabad instead.

After bin Laden approved the construction of a house within a larger compound in Abbottabad, it was Kuwaiti who purchased the land and oversaw the construction. Investigators from Pakistan's ISI later learned that Kuwaiti and his younger brother moved in with their own wives, along with bin Laden and his large family of two wives, six children and four grandchildren in May or June 2005.

How Did the CIA Find Bin Laden?

Immediately after the Special Operations forces raids that killed bin Laden, a senior administration official who had an obvious interest in peddling a particular narrative about CIA interrogation techniques told reporters that the CIA interrogation of al-Qaeda detainees held at Guantanamo had been a critical factor in finally tracking down bin Laden. According to one version, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, also known as "KSM," the mastermind of the 9/11 attack, had identified bin Laden's trusted courier in 2007; in another version, unidentified detainees had given interrogators the courier's real name.

The story of bin Laden's courier was an open invitation for past and present CIA officials who had gone along with the use of torture in interrogating suspects to justify their position. CIA Director Panetta channeled their viewpoint in an interview with NBC, suggesting that, for some of the information that led the agency to bin Laden, interrogators, "used their enhanced interrogation techniques against some of the detainees." He added, "Whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question." Reuters reported that the story of how the administration learned about the identity of bin Laden's courier was, "certain to reopen the debate over practices that many have equated with torture."

That entire story was more disinformation. In fact, none of the detainees had divulged the actual identity of bin Laden's courier - or even the courier's alias within the organization, Sheik Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti. Had any of them provided the actual name of the courier, it would not have taken another four years to discover where that courier - and bin Laden - were living. Reuters, which originally reported that KSM had given up the name of the courier, later corrected the story, explaining in a note appended to it that KSM had divulged only the, "existence of courier rather than the name of the courier." None of the other outlets that had published the disinformation published a similar correction.

Another story, leaked by the CIA to Associated Press, claimed the discovery of the Abbottabad compound as the result of an electronic intercept. In August 2010, according to the story, a voice was heard in a phone conversation with someone whose cell phone US intelligence was monitoring, and from the substance of the conversation, intelligence analysts concluded that it was Kuwaiti. That in turn led CIA operatives to the Abbottabad compound, according to the story.

But is doubtful that Kuwaiti used his mobile phone to communicate with anyone who was already under surveillance in 2010. By 2008, al-Qaeda in Iraq had been largely destroyed, in large part by the US Special Forces' ability to monitor the Iraqi militants' use of mobile phones, and both the al-Qaeda shura and bin Laden himself were even more acutely aware of the danger of any electronic communications that could expose Kuwaiti. Documents retrieved from bin Laden's Abbottabad home reminded al-Qaeda officials that all internal communications were to be by letter only and not by phone or the Internet. Three ISI investigators told Qadir in three separate meetings the same thing about al-Qaeda's caution with respect to the use of cell phones for internal communications.

Furthermore, it was another six months before the CIA initiated an effort to penetrate the Abbottabad compound with a human source. It was only in February 2011 that the CIA enlisted a Pakistani doctor named Shakeel Afridi to try to gain access to the house on the pretense of a fake campaign for testing people's blood for hepatitis, according to Afridi's testimony to ISI investigators. That gap in the timeline is only one of several pieces of evidence indicating that the CIA had not, in fact, tracked someone they believed to be bin Laden's courier to the compound in Abbottabad in July or August 2010. The story of the intercepted phone call appears to be at least another misleading report on the path to Abbottabad.

The ISI Reveals a Secret

For nearly a year, Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI, remained silent about how bin Laden had been found. Meanwhile, former CIA director Panetta suggested that the ISI had long known about bin Laden's presence in Abbottabad, two unnamed ISI officials asserted to The Washington Post in an April 27 article that ISI provided the CIA with the cell phone number that belonged to Kuwaiti in November 2010 and told them it was last detected in Abbottabad. But the ISI officials said that their agency did not know at the time that the number was Kuwaiti's.

A US official denied to the Post that the United States had learned about the number from the ISI. But in the initial briefing of reporters after the bin Laden raid on May 2, 2011, a "senior intelligence official" had actually confirmed, in guarded terms, that Pakistan had provided crucial information that intensified the CIA's focus on the Abbottabad compound. "The Pakistanis did not know of our interest in the compound," said the official, "but they did provide us information that helped us develop a clearer focus on this compound over time.... [T]hey provided us information attached to [the compound] to help us complete the robust intelligence case that ... eventually carried the day."

It is now clear that this acknowledgment, which was ignored in media coverage of the briefing, was a reference to ISI's providing the CIA with both the cell phone number of Arshad Khan and the fact that it belonged to the owner of the compound in Abbottabad. The unnamed official was confirming indirectly that until ISI had given it that information, the CIA had not focused on the Abbottabad compound as the likely location of bin Laden's courier, or, therefore, of bin Laden himself.

But there was more to the ISI information. Qadir was able to obtain a detailed account from ISI officers involved in the bin Laden investigation showing that ISI also told the CIA that it suspected that Khan might be linked to terrorism.

Qadir is a retired infantry officer who never worked in intelligence, but one of the officers involved in the ISI investigation of the background to the bin Laden killing had been under his command in Kurram Agency many years earlier. That connection enabled him to get access to several other ISI officers who were working on the investigation or were familiar with it. In conversations with Qadir in an ISI safe house in mid-December and over lunch at the Islamabad Club the same month, his initial ISI source told him how the ISI detachment in Abbottabad had launched an investigation of Khan in 2008.

According to Qadir's initial ISI source, Khan had let it be known locally that he had made some money from business ventures in Dubai, and that his current occupation was dealing in foreign currency exchange and real estate in Peshawar. "It was merely routine," the ISI officer emphasized. "We had no suspicions at the time."

That story put out by Kuwaiti and Khan, which was evidently an effort to explain his regular monthly visits to Peshawar, eventually reached the ISI detachment in Abbottabad. The result was a routine request to the detachment in Peshawar to make an inquiry to confirm the information. After months of methodical checking in Peshawar, the ISI unit there reported that none of the half-dozen Arshad Khans who were money changers was a resident of Abbottabad. The inconsistency was conveyed to ISI headquarters in early 2010, with a request for an expanded search in other towns, according to the ISI sources. A request was then sent to all major cities in Pakistan, just in case somebody had gotten the location of the business wrong.

After more months of routine checking, all ISI stations across the country had reported finding no trace of a Pashtun money changer named Arshad residing in Abbottabad. Furthermore, the Peshawar detachment had learned that Khan had been purchasing prescription drugs during his monthly visits to Peshawar, as Qadir learned from two separate ISI officials involved in the post-bin-Laden-raid investigation. The suspicions of ISI officials were now piqued.

It was in July 2010, after the routine investigation indicated that Khan was not telling the truth about his trips to Peshawar, that the ISI official in charge of the investigation decided that the matter was suspicious enough to bring it to the attention of the Counter Terrorism Wing (CTW) of ISI, according to Qadir's ISI sources. Those sources told Qadir they believed CTW asked the CIA for satellite surveillance of Khan's residence in Abbottabad. "I thought it was worth getting satellite coverage and forwarded the request to HQ, after consulting with my officers," the official who made the decision told Qadir. "It could have turned out to be nothing important, but if there was an important person hiding there, I would look like an incompetent fool."

The CTW had worked closely with the CIA on capturing al-Qaeda leaders and operatives over the years, and that cooperation remained intact in mid-2010, even as tensions between the two intelligence agencies were rising over the rapid increase in the number of spies the CIA had infiltrated into Pakistan that year, partly to keep tabs on ISI's relations with the Afghan Taliban and Haqqani network. So, it would not have been unusual for the CTW to bring the results of the investigation of Khan to the attention of the CIA.

Five different junior and mid-level ISI officers - three in the field and two in ISI headquarters in Rawalpindi - told Qadir in separate meetings in August and September 2011 that they understood CTW had decided to forward a request to the CIA for surveillance of the Abbottabad compound.

More senior officers at headquarters claimed to Qadir, however, that they didn't know about such a request, and at an even more senior level, they denied that such a request had even been made. The pattern of responses by ISI officials is consistent with a political decision by the military leadership to avoid even the slightest cooperation with the United States linked to the killing of bin Laden, according to Qadir. Given popular Pakistani anger about the unilateral US raid that killed bin Laden, even admitting that it had played a role in triggering the surveillance of the house in Abbottabad would have played into the hands of Pakistani groups who wanted to discredit the Army as stooges of the United States. "The mood in Pakistan was ugly," Qadir explained, "and the GHQ [Army headquarters] and ISI were in the eye of the storm. They felt they had no choice but to be accused of either complicity with the CIA in the raid or incompetence, and they chose incompetence."

But since Pakistan openly broke with Washington over the US military attack on two Pakistani border posts last November, the Pakistani military has more self-confidence. Under its new chief, Lt. Gen. Zaheer ul-Islam, the ISI has become more "proactive" in responding to negative press coverage, according to the officials who spoke with the Post. The ISI revelation to the Washington Post that ISI had turned over Khan's cell phone number to the CIA in November confirms the essence of the story Qadir obtained from his sources.

The information obtained from ISI about the Abbottabad compound explains the otherwise mysterious remark by President Barack Obama on the night of the raid. "It is important here to note," Obama said, "that our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound he was hiding in."

Obama's insertion of that acknowledgement of the assistance of Pakistani intelligence into his triumphant announcement of the bin Laden killing further confirms the evidence that Pakistani help in focusing on the Abbottabad compound was crucial, but senior CIA officials, assuming the news media would never catch on, had nevertheless done what officials always do if they don't believe they will be held accountable: they put out false information that made them look good. The lies surrounding the bin Laden killing are one more example of this primary leitmotif of the US national security state in the era of unaccountable permanent war.

Peter Lemkin
05-08-2012, 09:07 AM
The My Lai Massacre of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians (who's counting?) occurred on March 16, 1968, courtesy of "Charlie" Company. Most of the victims were women, children, infants, and elderly people. Some of the bodies were later found to be mutilated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutilate).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre#cite_note-BBC-1998-1) While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at Mỹ Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley), a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest.

Meanwhile, back at Camp Justice....
Regarding the 9-11 Five, "Their lawyers are thousands of miles away and require special flights just to get to Guantanamo. Even when there, the lawyers are unable to talk with their clients about anything the American military decides is classified. This includes all issues having to do with the prisoners’ treatment. Thus, defense lawyers can’t talk in court about the specifics of their clients’ complaints."
Douglas Valentine

Magda Hassan
05-24-2012, 01:05 PM
Terminal X, a group of Pakistani hackers, some times have some very interesting and very good information and other times not quite at all. I'm not in a position to judge the following but just post it for the record. In any case, the same needs to be said for the US State Department and Pentagon. Caveat lector.

Exclusive: More disclosures of the Abbottabad fiasco from Pakistani security officials (http://www.terminalx.org/2012/05/exclusive-more-disclosures-of.html)


THURSDAY, MAY 24, 2012 ANONYMOUS




TX Desk


Terminal X Director and Chief Intelligence Analyst Zaki Khalid has received further input from Pakistani intelligence officials about the actual events that took place during the ominous Abbottabad raid last year. Following is the commentary by the scribe himself and his communication with two ISI officials in continuation of a previous interview (http://www.terminalx.org/2012/05/exclusive-pakistani-intelligence.html) which was posted earlier. We make it clear that the views expressed by the officials may not necessarily reflect those of Pakistan's intelligence directorate.

=================================================

A security official from Pakistan's premier intelligence directorate has said that during the fiasco that took place on May 2 2011, one of the Sikorsky stealth choppers that had the actual SEAL "Kill Team" on-board was not even allowed to land. On the contrary, it was subjected to a take-out fire from the Pakistani side. The Sikorsky chopper tried its best to pick up altitude before crashing in a bid to escape the area but during the process, more than a dozen SEALs jumped off from the height and fell on the ground. The chopper was detonated by the Navy SEALs themselves and in this process, all the SEAL team members were burnt alive and eventually dead. Their roasted corpses were mutilated and spread out around the alleged compound of Osama bin Laden. After that detonation, the area transformed into an 'Ultra Red Zone'.

A US Army Chinook came to quickly pick up the dead officers. By this time, I have been told, Pakistan's Army Chief General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani was fully informed of the situation at hand. This scribe has further been told that near the alleged compound is 'a very sensitive asset' of the Pakistan military whose identity was kept classified. Fearing danger to the said asset, General Kayani immediately issued orders for 2 F-16s of the Pakistan Air Force to rush towards the nearby asset and hover over it.


As soon as the first stealth chopper crashed, the other rushed back immediately. The security official notes that there was a Pakistani Police mobile unit nearby that managed to fire some shots at the Chinook which managed to escape. The Infantry's Quick Response Force based inside the Pakistan Military Academy Kakul was still far away.


The official noted that American military officials claimed Operation 'Neptune Spear'continued for 20 minutes after the first chopper's crash. The official asked me, in a curious manner, "Does this mean the ghosts of the dead SEALs carried out the operation?"

After the Police van's attempt to bring down the Chinook, two minutes passed by and the Commanding Officer of the Quick Response Force and Regional Officer Commanding ISI were present on the spot. In a few minutes, the ISI dispatched a rapid briefing to the GHQ in Rawalpindi with this most important line, "A foreign aircraft is flying over the airspace of Abbottabad" (referring to the Chinook that came for backup but was not allowed to land).


The official, while continuing to share vital information, said that barely a few seconds had passed after the brief was sent to the GHQ that a high-command was issued from General Kayani to the then Air Chief Rao Qamar Suleiman, "Engage and Kill". People claim the F16s took flight at 1:05 am that night whereas the actual situation at hand was that General Kayani feared for the protection of the sensitive asset near that alleged compound. This makes it clear that the Pakistan Army was not aware of the actual 'Neptune Spear' fiasco but rather inferred that foreign aircraft must have penetrated into Abbottabad's airspace to attack the said asset. The Army's top hierarchy was focusing solely on the protection of that asset whose destruction could have caused a major blow to the Pakistani military.


Says an investigating officer of the ISI, "I do not think the first chopper (Sikorsky) was fired upon. It might be that a SEAL must have planted explosives inside the chopper himself and jumped off to give a dramatic zest to the whole staged play".


Meanwhile, the official who shared the backdrop of this story chipped in to add that in his personal opinion, what the investigating officer said can really be true. This, he says, is because ISI officials found a bag laden with explosives next to the compound. The official said it was similar to a proxy mine.


"The people present in the compound had their mouths taped and hands tied. They were not caged", said the official. "If they were kept in custody (by the Americans) for such a long time, as claimed by US officials in the media that the operation was planned back in 2006, then the "terrorists" should have been locked up or caged. They were seized but not caged which directly leads us to believe the people arrested were simply play-along assets "pawns in the game". Also, strains of Osama bin Laden's DNA could also have been planted. And who better to do this handiwork than a doctor. In this case, the CIA's asset, Dr. Shakil Afridi". http://www.terminalx.org/2012/05/exclusive-more-disclosures-of.html

Carsten Wiethoff
05-24-2012, 01:19 PM
The other interview referenced in your post, Magda, is also funny. It claims that OBL was not there in Abbotabad, because he had long been dead, possibly killed by KSM, who is a CIA asset.

Not that I believe anything of that stuff.
Of course, knowing would be better than believing, but it seems that knowledge about just anything is one of the rarest goods available, by design.

Carsten Wiethoff
08-23-2012, 07:01 AM
Another book to appear soon:


Publication Date: October 16, 2012 For the first time anywhere, the first-person account of the planning and execution of the Bin Laden raid from a Navy Seal who confronted the terrorist mastermind and witnessed his final moments.
From the streets of Iraq to the rescue of Captain Richard Phillips in the Indian Ocean, and from the mountaintops of Afghanistan to the third floor of Osama Bin Laden’s compound, operator Mark Owen of the U.S. Naval Special Warfare Development Group--commonly known as SEAL Team Six-- has been a part of some of the most memorable special operations in history, as well as countless missions that never made headlines.
No Easy Day puts readers alongside Owen and the other handpicked members of the twenty-four-man team as they train for the biggest mission of their lives. The blow-by-blow narrative of the assault, beginning with the helicopter crash that could have ended Owen’s life straight through to the radio call confirming Bin Laden’s death, is an essential piece of modern history.
In No Easy Day, Owen also takes readers onto the field of battle in America’s ongoing War on Terror and details the selection and training process for one of the most elite units in the military. Owen’s story draws on his youth in Alaska and describes the SEALs’ quest to challenge themselves at the highest levels of physical and mental endurance. With boots-on-the-ground detail, Owen describes numerous previously unreported missions that illustrate the life and work of a SEAL and the evolution of the team after the events of September 11. In telling the true story of the SEALs whose talents, skills, experiences, and exceptional sacrifices led to one of the greatest victories in the War on Terror, Mark Owen honors the men who risk everything for our country, and he leaves readers with a deep understanding of the warriors who keep America safe.

Peter Lemkin
08-23-2012, 08:02 AM
Another book to appear soon:


Publication Date: October 16, 2012 For the first time anywhere, the first-person account of the planning and execution of the Bin Laden raid from a Navy Seal who confronted the terrorist mastermind and witnessed his final moments.
From the streets of Iraq to the rescue of Captain Richard Phillips in the Indian Ocean, and from the mountaintops of Afghanistan to the third floor of Osama Bin Laden’s compound, operator Mark Owen of the U.S. Naval Special Warfare Development Group--commonly known as SEAL Team Six-- has been a part of some of the most memorable special operations in history, as well as countless missions that never made headlines.
No Easy Day puts readers alongside Owen and the other handpicked members of the twenty-four-man team as they train for the biggest mission of their lives. The blow-by-blow narrative of the assault, beginning with the helicopter crash that could have ended Owen’s life straight through to the radio call confirming Bin Laden’s death, is an essential piece of modern history.
In No Easy Day, Owen also takes readers onto the field of battle in America’s ongoing War on Terror and details the selection and training process for one of the most elite units in the military. Owen’s story draws on his youth in Alaska and describes the SEALs’ quest to challenge themselves at the highest levels of physical and mental endurance. With boots-on-the-ground detail, Owen describes numerous previously unreported missions that illustrate the life and work of a SEAL and the evolution of the team after the events of September 11. In telling the true story of the SEALs whose talents, skills, experiences, and exceptional sacrifices led to one of the greatest victories in the War on Terror, Mark Owen honors the men who risk everything for our country, and he leaves readers with a deep understanding of the warriors who keep America safe.


There is No Way In Hell he'd have permission to tell what happened without breaking secrecy agreements - or having been given the task to create a new and false (but convenient) version, IMO. SEALS take all kinds of secrecy oaths, generally, and for individual missions, as well....especially ones like 'that one'. Very suspicious...more so with that sickening pseudo-patriotic blather in the promotional material! This one was sponsored by the Military.....and will be about as 'true' as the official account of, say, Dallas or 9-11-01, IMO. Gee, I wonder if it'll sell well in Pakistan....it might for book-burnings.

Albert Doyle
08-31-2012, 04:14 AM
Mark Owen is being threatened with charges for writing this book.


The bottom line is Bin Laden could have easily been captured but was executed Gestapo style instead. The American people were denied the right to hear his side by a government that now bears self-assigned execution rights without trial.

Peter Lemkin
08-31-2012, 05:11 AM
Mark Owen is being threatened with charges for writing this book.


The bottom line is Bin Laden could have easily been captured but was executed Gestapo style instead. The American people were denied the right to hear his side by a government that now bears self-assigned execution rights without trial.

They [vaguely the military and government] are making it 'seem' as if they had NO idea he was writing this book and no idea is was at a publishers.....not credible, in itself. Hard to figure the game[s] being played here.

Malcolm Pryce
08-31-2012, 09:29 AM
Yeah, the way this book has been hyped in the UK press - I've seen two articles about it in the Guardian in ten days - makes me suspect it's a psyop.

The official narrative says bin Laden was wearing blue pyjamas.
A renegade SEAL breaks ranks and says no, they were green.

Blue, green, blue, green….

We argue endlessly about the colour of the pyjamas rather than the real question as to whether bin Laden was even there in the compound. My guess he died years ago.

Albert Doyle
08-31-2012, 05:07 PM
I wouldn't put it past CIA to put a double in the compound and have their Seal team think they executed the actual Bin Laden.


You may resume your forced fear of threatening National Security now.

Magda Hassan
09-07-2012, 05:24 AM
The Polish Bin-Laden Revelation: Uninformed, Naïve, or Just Plain Calculated? (http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2012/08/31/the-polish-bin-laden-revelation-uninformed-naive-or-just-plain-calculated/)

Friday, 31. August 2012
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/0830_polish1.pngYesterday, after I finished reading McClatchy’s ‘juicy story’based on some Ex-Polish spy’s recent ‘revelations,’ I kept going back and forth between several theories to explain the ‘real factors and purposes’ behind this entire nonsense (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/28/163879/cia-balked-at-chance-to-kill-bin.html). Of course, in coming up with my possible ‘possibilities’ I kept the paper’s own dictated agenda (factor) constant (not among the variables) making my approach semi-scientific. After all, we are talking US mainstream media, the ‘always constant’ when it comes to establishment-dictated narratives. That left me with the source, possible factors influencing or completely shaping the source’s revelations, and most importantly, the benefactors-who may be benefited from this so-called revelation and how.Now, here is the link, some highlights from McClatchy’s juicy story, and a few comments from me (All emphasis are mine):
CIA balked at chance to kill bin Laden in ’99- Polish ex-spy says (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/08/28/163879/cia-balked-at-chance-to-kill-bin.html)In late 1999, two years before the 9/11 terrorist attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people, a group of Afghan agents loyal to an anti-Taliban guerrilla leader proposed assassinating Osama bin Laden. All they wanted was the $5 million reward the Clinton administration had offered for bin Laden’s capture, says a former Polish spy who was the Afghans’ go-between on the plot. [ my comments :pointlaugh: ]The CIA rejected the plan, however, saying, “We do not have a license to kill.”
First, I thought McClatchy was being cute-an attempt to be sarcastic and humorous. Later, a few sentences down the junk piece, I realized they were actually serious. For God’s sake someone please tell me: since when, from day one of its inception, this evil agency has murdered, butchered, illegally assassinated, bombed … based on having a license to do so? Let me put it differently, as far as the establishment (those who gave birth to this terror organization and have sustained its evil existence) goes, the license with no ifs or buts, and one with no expiration date, has always been there. So what license are they referring to in this junk-story? Congressional mandate/blessing? I don’t know of any ‘formally’ granted congressional blessing for all the terror work this agency has been carrying out for over half a century. And of course, there are no constitutional, international laws, human rights bodies … that has the power or right to issue or withhold a ‘Killing License’ to this terror agency. Are they talking about the Commander in Chief? If so, when it comes to hierarchy, the establishment and its agency, our ever-present and constant shadow government, has always come first.Next, the junk-story goes into junk-theories on why the United States (and the CIA) did not pursue Bin Laden, ignored intelligence on his whereabouts and movements, and chose fundamentalist Taliban to side with:
But on Oct. 14, 1999, a CIA officer whom Makowski identified as “Jim” flew to Warsaw with a response. “I would like everyone here to be absolutely clear on one thing: We do not have a license to kill,” “Jim” told top officials at the headquarters of Polish intelligence. Makowski, at the time a businessman, said he was at the meeting.“We have to capture bin Laden safe and sound so that he can stand trial and be sentenced legally,” Makowski quotes the officer as saying. “Any other solution is out of the question. CIA operates within the American legal order.”…But Makowski’s book isn’t about the world that might have been. Instead, he uses the aborted bin Laden assassination plot as the basis for a much broader criticism: that the U.S. government, including the CIA, faced with a choice between a fundamentalist Taliban regime that had taken power in 1996 and the Taliban’s main rival, guerrilla leader Ahmed Shah Massoud, sided with the Taliban.
For a second let’s put this ‘license to kill’ BS aside, and look at the big picture. The CIA was not in any need of additional outside intelligence on Bin Laden’s whereabouts and movements. Why would they be?! During this period US operatives and NATO were working directly with Bin Laden; carrying out almost daily operations in the Caucasus, Central Asia, and some parts of the Balkans. Our CIA operatives, our State Department operatives, select NATO commanders including the Turkish branch, select Saudi officials including Bandar, and including two high-level ISI top officials, had several meetings with Zawahiri, including a critical meeting in Baku-Azerbaijan in late 1998. These are FACTS. In light of the facts, the idea that Polish guys were tipping off this same CIA on Bin Laden’s whereabouts and movements is simply comical. Nonsense.And let’s check this out wearing our critical thinking-reasoning hat:
Makowski thinks that was why Massoud granted him the access to his network in the first place. But the CIA didn’t warm to Massoud, Makowski said, and it’s unclear whether the information reached all the CIA analysts who were monitoring bin Laden. Scheuer, for one, said he couldn’t recall “hearing of any information from a Polish government source on al Qaida.” He added, “I know that period pretty well.” Makowski now thinks that Massoud held back intelligence about bin Laden and the 9/11 plot because of the CIA’s lack of interest. “I am aware of the fact that the development of modern Afghanistan doesn’t matter to the Americans,” Makowski recalls Massoud telling him in August 1999.…Unfortunately, Massoud missed a key part of bin Laden’s 9/11 planning: Massoud’s own assassination, which took place on the eve of the Sept. 11 attack.…
Eliminating Massoud was one of many ‘clean up’ operations to erase (wipeout) as much evidence/trace as possible. Otherwise, the official plot on 9/11 would have been much harder to sell. Just think who stood to gain/benefit from Massoud’s elimination?Anyhow, the junk-story goes on to quote an unnamed CIA guy and the usual despicable CIA front-man (the guy who was commissioned to write a book under the name ‘Anonymous’;-), and … well, the juicy junk ends with some idiotic and convoluted mesh.I can quickly see one of the intended conclusions the newspaper is trying to sell to the majority who are uninformed and lack critical thinking ability:See, if the CIA was given this ‘license to kill,’ if we had a guy like Obama who assassinates and murders globally men-women-children with his drones without having to have any justification, we might have eliminated 9/11. So, let’s maintain the current un-licensed and unjustified murdering…Now, the other secondary theories I have deal with this Polish Ex-Spy guy:Is he gullible and ultra naïve?Does he really believe this nonsense?Is he so uninformed and unable to put the already-established facts together connecting many of the dots dealing with 9/11?Are this guy’s so-called revelations totally calculated and scripted?And most importantly:How many Polish spies does it take to connect simple obvious facts and dots?Now your turn. Let us hear your take.http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2012/08/31/the-polish-bin-laden-revelation-uninformed-naive-or-just-plain-calculated/

Albert Doyle
09-07-2012, 05:31 PM
Two good things in there. 1st is CIA "Jim" saying they needed to follow rule of law and capture Bin Laden alive in order to bring him to trial. (What they then actually did is assassinate Bin Laden with a Seal death squad and disposed of the body secretly).

Next is the same claim I made in here that Massoud was assassinated by CIA (his friends) because he would have been the obvious heir to leading Afghanistan and needed to be gotten out of the way so CIA could have a more controllable leader. All classic Nazi tactics.

Magda Hassan
11-23-2012, 07:21 AM
Revealed: Military emails show that NO U.S. sailors witnessed Osama bin Laden's secret burial at sea


Emails describe how Osama bin Laden's body was washed, wrapped in a white sheet and slid into the sea after religious remarks in Arabic
Defense Department says it cannot find any images or videos of bin Laden's aboard USS Carl Vinson
Pentagon failed to produce autopsy report, death certificate or results of DNA tests
Military officials referred to bin Laden's body as 'package' in coded missives
Release of emails mark first public disclosure of information about bin Laden's May 1, 2011 death
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Daily+Mail+Reporter)
PUBLISHED: 00:17 GMT, 22 November 2012 | UPDATED: 00:17 GMT, 22 November 2012

Enemy No 1: Internal emails released by the Defense Department show that no U.S. sailors witnessed Osama bin Laden's burial at sea aboard USS Carl Vinson

Internal emails among U.S. military officers indicate that no American sailors watched Osama bin Laden's burial at sea from the USS Carl Vinson, and traditional Islamic procedures were followed during the secret ceremony.
The emails, obtained by The Associated Press through the Freedom of Information Act, are heavily blacked out, but are the first public disclosure of government information about the al-Qaida leader's death. The emails were released Wednesday by the Defense Department.
Bin Laden was killed on May 1, 2011, by a Navy SEAL team that assaulted his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
One email stamped secret and sent on May 2 by a senior Navy officer briefly describes how bin Laden's body was washed, wrapped in a white sheet, and then placed in a weighted bag.
According to another message from the Vinson's public affairs officer, only a small group of the ship's leadership was informed of the burial.
‘Traditional procedures for Islamic burial was followed,’ the May 2 email from Rear Adm. Charles Gaouette reads. ‘The deceased's body was washed (ablution) then placed in a white sheet. The body was placed in a weighted bag.
‘A military officer read prepared religious remarks, which were translated into Arabic by a native speaker. After the words were complete, the body was placed on a prepared flat board, tipped up, whereupon the deceased's body slid into the sea.’

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/22/article-2236617-1627F741000005DC-524_634x389.jpgFinal destination: Bin Laden's body was taken to an unknown location aboard USS Carl Vinson and dropped into the sea, but the Defense Department says that it cannot find any images showing the terrorist mastermind's remains on the ship





http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/22/article-2236617-0F339ADD00000578-333_634x418.jpgFallen mastermind: In this undated file image from video seized from bin Laden's walled compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, the al Qaeda leader watches TV



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/22/article-2236617-1627F5BB000005DC-364_634x417.jpgStronghold: Members of the anti-terrorism squad are seen surrounding the compound where bin Laden was killed by Navy SEAL Team 6 in Abbottabad May 4, 2011

The email also included a cryptic reference to the intense secrecy surrounding the mission.
‘The paucity of documentary evidence in our possession is a reflection of the emphasis placed on operational security during the execution of this phase of the operation,’ Gaouette's message reads.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/22/article-2236617-1627F5BF000005DC-665_306x423.jpgLong-awaited news: U.S. President Barack Obama is pictured after announcing live on television the death of Osama bin Laden from the East Room of the White House in Washington May 1, 2011

Recipients of the email included Adm. Mike Mullen, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Gen. James Mattis, the top officer at U.S. Central Command. Mullen retired from the military in September 2011.
Earlier, Gaouette, then the deputy commander of the Navy's Fifth Fleet, and another officer used code words to discuss whether the helicopters carrying the SEALs and bin Laden's body had arrived on the Vinson.
‘Any news on the package for us?’ he asked Rear Adm. Samuel Perez, commander of the carrier strike group that included the Vinson.

‘FEDEX delivered the package,’ Perez responded. ‘Both trucks are safely enroute home base.’
Although the Obama administration has pledged to be the most transparent in American history, it is keeping a tight hold on materials related to the bin Laden raid.

In a response to separate requests from the AP for information about the mission, the Defense Department said in March that it could not locate any photographs or video taken during the raid or showing bin Laden's body. It also said it could not find any images of bin Laden's body on the Vinson.
The Pentagon also said it could not find any death certificate, autopsy report or results of DNA identification tests for bin Laden, or any pre-raid materials discussing how the government planned to dispose of bin Laden's body if he were killed.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/21/article-2236617-0F31275F00000578-483_634x423.jpgHistoric moment: In this May 1, 2011, image, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden receive an update on the bin Laden mission in the Situation Room

The Defense Department also refused to confirm or deny the existence of helicopter maintenance logs and reports about the performance of military gear used in the raid.

One of the stealth helicopters that carried the SEALs to Abbottabad crashed during the mission and its wreckage was left behind. People who lived near bin Laden's compound took photos of the disabled chopper.
The CIA, which ran the bin Laden raid and has special legal authority to keep information from ever being made public, has not responded to AP's request for records about the mission.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236617/Revealed-Military-emails-NO-U-S-sailors-witnessed-Osama-bin-Ladens-secret-burial-sea.html

Magda Hassan
02-12-2013, 05:30 AM
Cry Me A River


The Man Who Killed Osama bin Laden... Is Screwed

For the first time, the Navy SEAL who killed Osama bin Laden tells his story — speaking not just about the raid and the three shots that changed history, but about the personal aftermath for himself and his family. And the startling failure of the United States government to help its most experienced and skilled warriors carry on with their lives.

By Phil Bronstein

February 12, 2013 "Esquire (http://www.esquire.com/features/man-who-shot-osama-bin-laden-0313?click=pp)" -- The man who shot and killed Osama bin Laden sat in a wicker chair in my backyard, wondering how he was going to feed his wife and kids or pay for their medical care.

It was a mild spring day, April 2012, and our small group, including a few of his friends and family, was shielded from the sun by the patchwork shadows of maple trees. But the Shooter was sweating as he talked about his uncertain future, his plans to leave the Navy and SEAL Team 6.
He stood up several times with an apologetic gripe about the heat, leaving a perspiration stain on the seat-back cushion. He paced. I didn't know him well enough then to tell whether a glass of his favorite single malt, Lagavulin, was making him less or more edgy.
We would end up intimately familiar with each other's lives. We'd have dinners, lots of Scotch. He's played with my kids and my dogs and been a hilarious, engaging gentleman around my wife.
In my yard, the Shooter told his story about joining the Navy at nineteen, after a girl broke his heart. To escape, he almost by accident found himself in a Navy recruiter's office. "He asked me what I was going to do with my life. I told him I wanted to be a sniper.
"He said, 'Hey, we have snipers.'
"I said, 'Seriously, dude. You do not have snipers in the Navy.' But he brought me into his office and it was a pretty sweet deal. I signed up on a whim."
"That's the reason Al Qaeda has been decimated," he joked, "because she broke my fucking heart."
I would come to know about the Shooter's hundreds of combat missions, his twelve long-term SEAL-team deployments, his thirty-plus kills of enemy combatants, often eyeball to eyeball. And we would talk for hours about the mission to get bin Laden and about how, over the celebrated corpse in front of them on a tarp in a hangar in Jalalabad, he had given the magazine from his rifle with all but three lethally spent bullets left in it to the female CIA analyst whose dogged intel work and intuition led the fighters into that night.
When I was first around him, as he talked I would always try to imagine the Shooter geared up and a foot away from bin Laden, whose life ended in the next moment with three shots to the center of his forehead. But my mind insisted on rendering the picture like a bad Photoshop job — Mao's head superimposed on the Yangtze, or tourists taking photos with cardboard presidents outside the White House.
Bin Laden was, after all, the man CIA director Leon Panetta called "the most infamous terrorist in our time," who devoured inordinate amounts of our collective cultural imagery for more than a decade. The number-one celebrity of evil. And the man in my backyard blew his lights out.
ST6 in particular is an enterprise requiring extraordinary teamwork, combined with more kinds of support in the field than any other unit in the history of the U.S. military.
Similarly, NASA marshaled thousands of people to put a man on the moon, and history records that Neil Armstrong first set his foot there, not the equally talented Buzz Aldrin.
Enough people connected to the SEALs and the bin Laden mission have confirmed for me that the Shooter was the "number two" behind the raid's point man going up the stairs to bin Laden's third-floor residence, and that he is the one who rolled through the bedroom door solo and confronted the surprisingly tall terrorist pushing his youngest wife, Amal, in front of him through the pitch-black room. The Shooter had to raise his gun higher than he expected.
The point man is the only one besides the Shooter who could verify the kill shots firsthand, and he did just that to another SEAL I spoke with. But even the point man was not in the room then, having tackled two women into the hallway, a crucial and heroic decision given that everyone living in the house was presumed to be wearing a suicide vest.
But a series of confidential conversations, detailed descriptions of mission debriefs, and other evidence make it clear: The Shooter's is the most definitive account of those crucial few seconds, and his account, corroborated by multiple sources, establishes him as the last man to see Osama bin Laden alive. Not in dispute is the fact that others have claimed that they shot bin Laden when he was already dead, and a number of team members apparently did just that.
What is much harder to understand is that a man with hundreds of successful war missions, one of the most decorated combat veterans of our age, who capped his career by terminating bin Laden, has no landing pad in civilian life.
Back in April, he and some of his SEAL Team 6 colleagues had formed the skeleton of a company to help them transition out of the service. In my yard, he showed everyone his business-card mock-ups. There was only a subtle inside joke reference to their team in the company name.
Unlike former SEAL Team 6 member Matt Bissonnette (No Easy Day), they do not rush to write books or step forward publicly, because that violates the code of the "quiet professional." Someone suggested they might sell customized sunglasses and other accessories special operators often invent and use in the field. It strains credulity that for a commando team leader who never got a single one of his men hurt on a mission, sunglasses would be his best option. And it's a simple truth that those who have been most exposed to harrowing danger for the longest time during our recent unending wars now find themselves adrift in civilian life, trying desperately to adjust, often scrambling just to make ends meet.
At the time, the Shooter's uncle had reached out to an executive at Electronic Arts, hoping that the company might need help with video-game scenarios once the Shooter retired. But the uncle cannot mention his nephew's distinguishing feature as the one who put down bin Laden.
Secrecy is a thick blanket over our Special Forces that inelegantly covers them, technically forever. The twenty-three SEALs who flew into Pakistan that night were directed by their command the day they got back stateside about acting and speaking as though it had never happened.
"Right now we are pretty stacked with consultants," the video-game man responded. "Thirty active and recently retired guys" for one game: Medal of Honor Warfighter. In fact, seven active-duty Team 6 SEALs would later be punished for advising EA while still in the Navy and supposedly revealing classified information. (One retired SEAL, a participant in the bin Laden raid, was also involved.)
With the focus and precision he's learned, the Shooter waits and watches for the right way to exit, and adapt. Despite his foggy future, his past is deeply impressive. This is a man who is very pleased about his record of service to his country and has earned the respect of his peers.
"He's taken monumental risks," says the Shooter's dad, struggling to contain the frustration that roughs the edges of his deep pride in his son. "But he's unable to reap any reward."
It's not that there isn't one. The U.S. government put a $25 million bounty on bin Laden that no one is likely to collect. Certainly not the SEALs who went on the mission nor the support and intelligence experts who helped make it all possible. Technology is the key to success in this case more than people, Washington officials have said.
The Shooter doesn't care about that. "I'm not religious, but I always felt I was put on the earth to do something specific. After that mission, I knew what it was."
Others also knew, from the commander-in-chief on down. The bin Laden shooting was a staple of presidential-campaign brags. One big-budget movie, several books, and a whole drawerful of documentaries and TV films have fortified the brave images of the Shooter and his ST6 Red Squadron members.
There is commerce attached to the mission, and people are capitalizing. Just not the triggerman. While others collect, he is cautious and careful not to dishonor anyone. His manners come at his own expense.
"No one who fights for this country overseas should ever have to fight for a job," Barack Obama said last Veterans' Day, "or a roof over their head, or the care that they have earned when they come home."
But the Shooter will discover soon enough that when he leaves after sixteen years in the Navy, his body filled with scar tissue, arthritis, tendonitis, eye damage, and blown disks, here is what he gets from his employer and a grateful nation:
Nothing. No pension, no health care, and no protection for himself or his family.
Since Abbottabad, he has trained his children to hide in their bathtub at the first sign of a problem as the safest, most fortified place in their house. His wife is familiar enough with the shotgun on their armoire to use it. She knows to sit on the bed, the weapon's butt braced against the wall, and precisely what angle to shoot out through the bedroom door, if necessary. A knife is also on the dresser should she need a backup.
Then there is the "bolt" bag of clothes, food, and other provisions for the family meant to last them two weeks in hiding.
"Personally," his wife told me recently, "I feel more threatened by a potential retaliatory terror attack on our community than I did eight years ago," when her husband joined ST6.
When the White House identified SEAL Team 6 as those responsible, camera crews swarmed into their Virginia Beach neighborhood, taking shots of the SEALs' homes.
After bin Laden's face appeared on their TV in the days after the killing, the Shooter cautioned his older child not to mention the Al Qaeda leader's name ever again "to anybody. It's a bad name, a curse name." His kid started referring to him instead as "Poopyface." It's a story he told affectionately on that April afternoon visit to my home.
He loves his kids and tears up only when he talks about saying goodbye to them before each and every deployment. "It's so much easier when they're asleep," he says, "and I can just kiss them, wondering if this is the last time." He's thrilled to show video of his oldest in kick-boxing class. And he calls his wife "the perfect mother."
In fact, the couple is officially separated, a common occurrence in ST6. SEAL marriages can be perilous. Husbands and fathers have been mostly away from their families since 9/11. But the Shooter and his wife continue to share a house on very friendly, even loving terms, largely to save money.
"We're actually looking into changing my name," the wife says. "Changing the kids' names, taking my husband's name off the house, paying off our cars. Essentially deleting him from our lives, but for safety reasons. We still love each other."
When the family asked about any kind of government protection should the Shooter's name come out, they were advised that they could go into a witness-protection-like program.
Just as soon as the Department of Defense creates one.
"They [SEAL command] told me they could get me a job driving a beer truck in Milwaukee" under an assumed identity. Like Mafia snitches, they would not be able to contact their families or friends. "We'd lose everything."
"These guys have millions of dollars' worth of knowledge and training in their heads," says one of the group at my house, a former SEAL and mentor to the Shooter and others looking to make the transition out of what's officially called the Naval Special Warfare Development Group. "All sorts of executive function skills. That shouldn't go to waste."
The mentor himself took a familiar route — through Blackwater, then to the CIA, in both organizations as a paramilitary operator in Afghanistan.
Private security still seems like the smoothest job path, though many of these guys, including the Shooter, do not want to carry a gun ever again for professional use. The deaths of two contractors in Benghazi, both former SEALs the mentor knew, remind him that the battlefield risks do not go away.
By the time the Shooter visited me that first time in April, I had come to know more of the human face of what's called Tier One Special Operations, in addition to the extraordinary skill and icy resolve. It is a privileged, consuming, and concerning look inside one of the most insular clubs on earth.
And I understood that he would face a world very different from the supportive one President Obama described at Arlington National Cemetery a few months before.
As I watched the Shooter navigate obstacles very different from the ones he faced so expertly in four war zones around the globe, I wondered: Is this how America treats its heroes? The ones President Obama called "the best of the best"? The ones Vice-President Biden called "the finest warriors in the history of the world"?


http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/at/esq-shooter-gear-020813-de.jpg
the shooters gear
The Shooter


1 APRIL 2011: THE MISSION
The reason we knew this was a special mission, the Shooter said as our interviews about the bin Laden operation began, is because we'd just finished an Afghanistan deployment and were on a training trip, diving in Miami, when a few of us got recalled to the Command in Virginia Beach. Another ST6 team was on official standby — normally that's the team that blows out for a contingency operation. But they were not chosen, to better cloak what was going to happen.
There was so much going on — the Libya thing, the Arab Spring. We knew something good was going to go down. We didn't know how good.
The first day's briefing, they actually kind of lied to us, being very vague. They mentioned underwater cables because of the earthquake in Japan or some craziness. They hinted at Libya. They said it was a compound somewhere in a bowl and we were going to have two aircraft get us there and we don't know how many are inside but we have to get something out. You won't have any air support.
I assumed it was WMD, a nuke, because why else are they sending us to Libya?
Every question the Red Squadron ST6 members asked was answered with, "Well, we can't tell you that." Or: "We don't know."
It was also weird that the entire Red Squadron was in town, but they kicked everyone out of the briefing except those guys who were going, twenty-three and four backups. We'd leave the room to get coffee and stuff, and the other guys were like, "Well, what are you guys doing?" We were telling them, "I have no idea."
The Shooter was a mission team leader. Almost everyone chosen had a one or two ranking in the squadron, the most experienced guys. The group was split into four tactical teams, with the Shooter as leader of the external-security group — the dog, Cairo, two snipers, and a CIA interpreter to keep whoever might show up in the area out of the internal action.
The group left Virginia on a Sunday morning, April 10, to drive to the CIA's Harvey Point, North Carolina, center for another briefing and the start of training. The Master Chief was saying JSOC [Joint Special Operations Command] would be there, the Secretary of Defense might be there, the Pak/Afghan CIA desk, too. That's when the wheels started spinning for me: This is big.
I've had some close calls with death, bullets flying past my head. Even just driving, weird stuff. Every time, I would tell my mother, "There's no way I'm going to die, because I'm here to do something." I've been saying that for twenty years. I don't know what it is, but it's something important.
By Monday the team was assembled in a big classroom inside a one-story building. They actually had security sitting outside. No one else was allowed in. A JSOC general, Pak/Afghan and other D.C. officials, and the ST6 commanding officer were there. The SEAL commander, cool as ever, said, "Okay, we're as close as we've ever been to UBL." And that was it. He kind of looked at us and we looked at him and nodded. There was none of that cheering bullshit. We were thinking, Yeah, okay, good. It's about time that we kill this motherfucker. It was simple.
This is what I came for. Jealousies aside, one of us is going to have the best chance of killing this guy.
During the daylong briefing, the SEALs heard how the government found the compound in Abbottabad, how they were watching it, analyzing it, why they believed bin Laden might be there. He, UBL, had become known as the Pacer, the tall guy in satellite imagery who neither left nor mixed with the others.
It was the CIA woman, now immortalized in books and movies, who gave the briefing. "Yeah," she told us. "We got him. This is him. This is my life's work. I'm positive."
By then, government and military officials had been considering four options. They were either going to bomb the piss out of the compound with two-thousand-pound ordnance, they were going to send us in, do some kind of joint thing with the Pakis, or try what was called a "hammer throw," where a drone flies by and chucks one fucking bomb at the guy. But they didn't want any collateral damage. And they wanted to make sure he was dead and not in a cave or a safe room.
After the group settled into "motel-like" rooms, with common areas that had TVs and a kitchen, the team started strategizing with a model of the compound on a large table. Then they drove to a full-scale mock-up for a walk-through. The next day the helos came and we started doing iteration training based on how we wanted to hit it.
Once I realized what was going on, I actually moved myself to one of the assault teams, even if I was no longer a team leader. We didn't need that many guys on the exterior team, and I'll go fast-rope on the roof with what I started calling the Martyrs Brigade, because as soon as we landed, I figured the house was going to blow up. But we were also going to be the guys in there first to kill him.
One sniper would also be on the roof to lean over and try to take a shot upside down. The rest of the team would rope again down to the third-floor windows and get your gun up fast because he's probably standing there with his gun. If you fell, it would suck.
If the group made it inside, there were other issues. I've been in houses before with IEDs in them designed to blow everything up. They'd hang them in the middle of the room so it's a bigger explosion.
I was usually the guy to joke around when we were planning these things — we all dick around a lot. But I was like, "Hey guys, we have to take this fucking serious. There's a 90 percent chance this is a one-way mission. We're gonna die, so let's do this right."
The discussions went on, almost a luxury. We're used to going on the fly, five, six nights a week on deployment. Here's your target, we're leaving in twenty minutes. Come up with a plan. This compound was pretty easy, though we had no clue about the inside layout.
The group reviewed contingencies: How do we handle cars? What if a helo went down? What do we do if the helo doors don't open? Shit like that.
The first helicopter was going to land in front of the house. We were going to put our external security out and our bird was going to go back up and we'd fast-rope onto the roof. So we'd have one assault team from the other chopper coming up the stairs, and we'd be going down.
It was March 2012, a blossoming time of year in the capital of the free world. The intimate dinner party was already under way at a stylish split-level apartment one block from the Washington Hilton. The hostess was a military contractor, and there was a lobbyist there, along with another young woman, a Capitol Hill veteran.
The Shooter's mentor was behind the kitchen counter, putting a final grill-sauce flair on some huge slabs of red meat when four men, all of them imposing and fit, came through the front door.
The Shooter is thick, like a power lifter, with an audacious set of tattoos. He can be curt and dismissive as his default, but also wickedly funny. It's instantly easy to see why he's considered both a rebellious, pushy pain in the ass by his command and even some of his colleagues, but also a natural leader. An outgoing, charismatic, and determined alpha male in the ultimate alpha crowd.
He and his three friends were all active ST6 members that night, though none of the others present had been on the bin Laden mission.
This was my first face-to-face meeting with the Shooter, following several phone conversations and much checking on my journalism background, especially in war zones. In a corner, pouring drinks, he and I established some rules. He would consider talking to me only after his last, upcoming four-month deployment to Afghanistan had ended and he had exited the Navy. And he would not go public; he would not be named. That would be counter to the team's code, and it would also put a huge "kill me" target on his back.
During the dinner, he told mostly personal stories and took care not to talk in terms of operational security: the deal about the gun magazine and the CIA analyst, the experience of eyeballing bin Laden.
"Three of us were driving to our first briefing on the mission," he said. "We were thinking maybe it was Libya, but we knew there would be very high-level brass there. One of my guys says, 'I bet it's bin Laden.'" Another guy told the Shooter, "If it's Osama bin Laden, dude, I will suck yo' dick."
"So after I shoot UBL, I bring him over to see his body. 'Okay,' I told him, 'now is as good a time as any.'"
The group talked about hairy moments during other missions, stories soldiers and foreign correspondents enjoy swapping. But from the start something was obvious, not just about the Shooter but about his fellow SEALs, too: These men who had heroically faced death and exercised extraordinary violence in almost continuous battle for years on end were fearful of life after war.
This is a problem that is becoming more critical as the "best of the best" start leaving the most extended wartime careers in the history of the United States. And it is a problem not just for these men and their families but for the American government, which has come to rely heavily on a steady stream of Tier One special operators (including the Army's Delta Force and the Air Force's 24th Special Tactics Squadron) — men of rarefied toughness and training like these — to maintain a sense of international security in an asymmetrical battlefield. The American way of war has changed radically in the past decade, so that in the future, "boots on the ground" will more and more mean special operators. Which means that there will be increasing numbers of vets in the Shooter's circumstance: abandoned, with limited choices.
That night, one of the Shooter's comrades, lantern-jawed, articulate, with a serious academic pedigree, told me: "I've seen a lot of combat, been in some pretty grisly circumstances. But the thing that scares me the most after fifteen years in the SEALs?
"Civilian life."




http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/wH/esq-abbottabad-compound-osama-0313-de.jpg
Abbottabad Complex
National Security Archive (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB410/)


2. "100 PERCENT, HE'S ON THE THIRD FLOOR."
The Shooter and the rest of the team made one last night run on the mock-up of the compound in North Carolina, then drove back to their homes and headquarters in Virginia for a brief break.
There were goodbyes to his wife and sleeping children. Normally she'd say, 'I'm fine, just go.' This time there was nothing fine about her. Like this would be the last time we'd see each other.
Saying goodbye is just horrible. I don't even want to talk about it... this is the last time I'm going to see these children.
The Shooter had bought himself $350 Prada sunglasses over the weekend, and much less expensive gifts for his kids. Which makes me a horrible father. But really, he just figured he'd die with some style on.
And think of the ad campaign: "If you only have one day to live..."
When we got to Nevada a few days later, where the team trained on another full-scale compound model, but this one crudely fashioned from shipping containers, we turned the corner, saw the helos we'd actually use, and I started laughing. I told the guys, "The odds just changed. There's a 90 percent chance we'll survive." They asked why. I said, "I didn't know they were sending us to war on a fucking Decepticon."
For the mission, they'd be slipping through the night in the latest model of stealth Black Hawk helicopters.
There were days more training, run after run, punctuated by briefings by military brass. They asked us if we were ready. We told them, "Yeah, absolutely. This is going to be easy."
This was ultimately an assault mission like hundreds he'd been on, different in only one respect.
A critical moment for the mission came when the tireless SEAL Red Team Squadron leader briefed chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen and Pentagon undersecretary Mike Vickers. He was going to sell it right then. Not just to his superiors but, through them, to the president.
We're all in uniform to look professional, and our CO, working on no sleep for days, hit it out of the park. There's no doubt in my mind we're going to go because of his presentation.
The group discussed what would happen if they were surrounded by Pakistani troops. We would surrender. The original plan was to have Vice-President Biden fly to Islamabad and negotiate our release with Pakistan's president.
This is hearsay, but I understand Obama said, Hell no. My guys are not surrendering. What do we need to rain hell on the Pakistani military? That was the one time in my life I was thinking, I am fucking voting for this guy. I had a picture of him lying in bed at night, thinking, You're not fucking with my guys. Like, he's thinking about us.
We got word that we'd be scrambling jets on the border to back us up.
An Ambien, a C-17 cargo-plane ride, a short stop in Germany, and they were in Afghanistan.
At Jalalabad, the Shooter saw the CIA analyst pacing. She asked me why I was so calm. I told her, We do this every night. We go to a house, we fuck with some people, and we leave. This is just a longer flight. She looked at me and said, "One hundred percent he's on the third floor. So get to there if you can." She was probably 90 percent sure, and her emotion pushed that to 100.
Another SEAL squadron, which was already in Afghanistan and would have normally been the assaulters, were very welcoming to us. They would form the Quick Reaction Force flying in behind, on the 47's. The Red Team visitors stayed in "transient" housing.
During the day, the group would work with our gear, work out. Nighttime was poker and refreshments, or what is called "fellowship," while they waited for a go from Obama himself. On the treadmill, the Shooter listened to "Red Nation" by the rapper Game. It's about leaving blood on the ground. We were the Red Team and we were going to leave some blood.
Other guys ginned up some mixed-martial-arts practice or stretched over foam rollers to keep their joints in good shape.
We all wrote letters. I had my shitty little room and I'm sitting on my Pelican case with all my gear, a manila envelope on my bed, and I'm writing letters to my kids. They were to be delivered in case of my death, something for them to read when they're thirty-five. I have no idea what I said except I'm explaining everything, that it was a noble mission and I hope we got him. I'm saying I wish I could be there for them.
And the tears are hitting the page, because we all knew that none of us were coming back alive. It was either death or a Pakistani prison, where we'd be raped for the rest of our lives.
He gave the letters to an intel guy not on the mission, with instructions. He would shred them if he made it back.
You write it, it's horrible, you hand it off, and it's like, Okay, that part's over. And I'm back, ready to roll.
By early September of last year, the Shooter was out, officially. Retired.
He had survived his last deployment, and there was a barbecue near his house to celebrate with about thirty close friends from "the community." The Redskins were on, his favorite team, and there was lots of Commando ale, brewed by a former SEAL.
"I left SEALs on Friday," he said the next time I saw him. It was a little more than thirty-six months before the official retirement requirement of twenty years of service. "My health care for me and my family stopped at midnight Friday night. I asked if there was some transition from my Tricare to Blue Cross Blue Shield. They said no. You're out of the service, your coverage is over. Thanks for your sixteen years. Go fuck yourself."
The government does provide 180 days of transitional health-care benefits, but the Shooter is eligible only if he agrees to remain on active duty "in a support role," or become a reservist. Either way, his life would not be his own. Instead, he'll buy private insurance for $486 a month, but some treatments that relieve his wartime pains, like $120 for weekly chiropractic care, are out-of-pocket. Like many vets, he will have to wait at least eight months to have his disability claims adjudicated. Or even longer. The average wait time nationally is more than nine months, according to the Center for Investigative Reporting.
http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/iY/esq-disability-map-0313-de.png (https://www.baycitizen.org/data/veterans/map-disabled-vets-stuck-backlog-limbo/)
The Center for Investigative Reporting's interactive map (https://www.baycitizen.org/data/veterans/map-disabled-vets-stuck-backlog-limbo/) of U.S. veterans still waiting for help due to backlogged disability claims.
Anyone who leaves early also gets no pension, so he is without income. Even if he had stayed in for the full twenty, his pension would have been half his base pay: $2,197 a month. The same as a member of the Navy choir.
Still, on this early fall weekend, he does not want to commit to publishing any information from or about him. The book by a friend and fellow ST6 member, Matt Bissonnette, who claims to have shot bin Laden in the chest when the Al Qaeda leader was already down and bleeding profusely, will go on sale in a few days. The Department of Defense was threatening legal action over breach of confidentiality agreements and revelation of supposedly classified material. And the Shooter refuses to identify Bissonnette by name or confirm that he is the colleague who wrote the book. "I still want him and his family to be safe no matter what," he says. "If he didn't want [his name] out, I shouldn't either. That is my thinking, anyway."
Many in the community are also infuriated, the Shooter says. "There's a shitstorm around this." It has also come to his attention that Bissonnette's account tends to gloss over — if not erase — the Shooter's central role in bin Laden's death.
"I don't know why he'd do that," the Shooter says.
Almost since the mission was done, the Shooter himself was suspected by the SEAL command and other team members of being the one who was writing a book, the one who would be first to market, spinning gold off Abbottabad.
CIA and FBI officials called to ask whether he was going to appear with Bissonnette on 60 Minutes.
When it became clear that he wasn't the opportunist, there was an official effort at apology from his superiors and some individual SEALs.
The Shooter had long ago decided not to write a book out of the gate, though he is keenly aware that Bissonnette's book will make millions. There is still loyalty and safety to consider. He also wanted to see how Bissonnette fared with his colleagues, the U.S. government, and others.
Bissonnette's pseudonym — Mark Owen — lasted about a day before his real name surfaced and was promptly posted on a jihadi Web site.
But it was his official separation from the Navy that convinced the Shooter that he should get his story down somewhere, both for history and for a potential "greater good," to both humanize his warrior friends as something more complex than Jason Bourne cartoon superheroes, and call attention to what retiring SEALs don't get in their complex bargain with their country.




http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/j9/esq-obama-situation-room-0313-de.jpg
The Situation Room
The White House/Flickr


3."HEY, MAN, I JUST SHOT A WOMAN."
Waiting in Jalalabad, the teams were getting feedback from Washington. Gates didn't want to do this, Hillary didn't want to do that.
The Shooter still thought, We'd train, spin up, then spin down. They'd eventually tank the op and just bomb it.
But then the word came to Vice Admiral William McRaven, head of Joint Special Operations Command. The mission was on, originally for April 30, the night of the White House Correspondents' dinner in Washington.
McRaven figured it would look bad if all sorts of officials got up and left the dinner in front of the press. So he came up with a cover story about the weather so we could launch on Sunday, May 1, instead.
There was one last briefing and an awesome speech from McRaven comparing the looming raid and its fighters to the movie Hoosiers.
Then they're gathered by a fire pit, suiting up. Just before he got on the chopper to leave for Abbottabad, the Shooter called his dad. I didn't know where he was, but I found out later he was in a Walmart parking lot. I said, "Hey, it's time to go to work," and I'm thinking, I'm calling for the last time. I thought there was a good chance of dying.
He knew something significant was up, though he didn't know what. The Shooter could hear him start to tear up. He told me later that he sat in his pickup in that parking lot for an hour and couldn't get out of the car.
The Red Team and members of the other squad hugged one another instead of the usual handshakes before they boarded their separate aircraft. The hangars had huge stadium lights pointing outward so no one from the outside could see what was going on.
I took one last piss on the bushes.
Ninety minutes in the chopper to get from Jalalabad to Abbottabad. The Shooter noted when the bird turned right, into Pakistani airspace.
I was sitting next to the commanding officer, and he's relaying everything to McRaven.
I was counting back and forth to a thousand to pass the time. It's a long flight, but we brought these collapsible camping chairs, so we're not uncomfortable. But it's getting old and you're ready to go and you don't want your legs falling asleep.
Every fifteen minutes they'd tell us we hadn't been painted [made by Pakistani radar].
I remember banking to the south, which meant we were getting ready to hit. We had about another fifteen minutes. Instead of counting, for some reason I said to myself the George Bush 9/11 quote: Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward, and freedom will be defended. I could just hear his voice, and that was neat. I started saying it again and again to myself. Then I started to get pumped up. I'm like: This is so on.
I was concerned for the two [MH-47 Chinook] big-boat choppers crossing the Pakistani border forty-five minutes after we did, both full of my guys from the other squadron, the backup and extraction group. The 47's have some awesome antiradar shit on them, too. But it's still a school bus flying into a sovereign nation. If the Pakistanis don't like it, they can send a jet in to shoot them down.
Flying in, we were all just sort of in our own world. My biggest concern was having to piss really bad and then having to get off in a fight needing to pee. We actually had these things made for us, like a combination collapsible dog bowl and diaper. I still have mine; I never used it. I used one of my water bottles instead. I forgot until later that when I shot bin Laden in the face, I had a bottle of piss in my pocket.
I would have pissed my pants rather than trying to fight with a full bladder.
Above the compound, the Shooter could hear only his helo pilot in the flight noise. "Dash 1 going around" meant the other chopper was circling back around. I thought they'd taken fire and were just moving. I didn't realize they crashed right then. But our pilot did. He put our five perimeter guys out, went up, and went right back down outside the compound, so we knew something was wrong. We weren't sure what the fuck it was.
We opened the doors, and I looked out.
The area looked different than where we trained because we're in Pakistan now. There are the lights, the city. There's a golf course. And we're, This is some serious Navy SEAL shit we're going to do. This is so badass. My foot hit the ground and I was still running [the Bush quote] in my head. I don't care if I die right now. This is so awesome. There was concern, but no fear.
I was carrying a big-ass sledgehammer to blow through a wall if we had to. There was a gate on the northeast corner and we went right to that. We put a breaching charge on it, clacked it, and the door peeled like a tin can. But it was a fake gate with a wall behind it. That was good, because we knew that someone was defending themselves. There's something good here.
We walked down the main long wall to get to the driveway to breach the door there. We were about to blow that next door on the north end when one of the guys from the bird that crashed came around the other side and opened it.
So we were moving down the driveway and I looked to the left. The compound was exactly the same. The mock-up had been dead-on. To actually be there and see the house with the three stories, the blacked-out windows, high walls, and barbed wire — and I'm actually in that security driveway with the carport, just like the satellite photos. I was like, This is really cool I'm here.
While we were in the carport, I heard gunfire from two different places nearby. In one flurry, a SEAL shot Abrar al-Kuwaiti, the brother of bin Laden's courier, and his wife, Bushra. One of our guys involved told me, "Jesus, these women are jumping in front of these guys. They're trying to martyr themselves. Another sign that this is a serious place. Even if bin Laden isn't here, someone important is."
We crossed to the south side of the main building. There the Shooter ran into another team member, who told him, "Hey, man, I just shot a woman." He was worried. I told him not to be. "We should be thinking about the mission, not about going to jail."
For the Shooter personally, bin Laden was one bookend in a black-ops career that was coming to an end. But the road to Abbottabad was long, starting with the guys who tried and failed to make it into the SEALs in the first place. Up to 80 percent of applicants wash out, and some almost die trying.
In fact, during the Shooter's Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training in the mid-nineties, the torture-chamber menu of physical and emotional resistance and resolve required to get into the SEALs, there was actually a death and resurrection.
"One of the tests is they make you dive to the bottom of a pool and tie five knots," the Shooter says. "One guy got to the fifth knot and blacked out underwater. We pulled him up and he was, like, dead. They made the class face the fence while they tried to resuscitate him. The first words as he spit out water were 'Did I pass? Did I tie the fifth knot?' The instructor told him, 'We didn't want to find out if you could tie the knots, you asshole, we wanted to know how hard you'd push yourself. You killed yourself. You passed.'"
"I've been drown-proofed once, and it does suck," the Shooter says.
Then there is Green Team, the lead-heavy door of entry for SEAL Team 6. Half of the men who are already hardened SEALs don't make it through. "They get in your mind and make you think fast and make decisions during high stress."
There have been SEAL teams since the Kennedy years, when they got their first real workout against the Vietcong around Da Nang and in the Mekong Delta, and even during periods of relative peace since Vietnam, SEAL teams have been deployed around the world. But at no time have they been more active than in the period since 2001, in the longest war ever fought by Americans.
If the surge in Iraq ordered by President Bush in 2007 was at all successful, that success is owed significantly to the night-shift work done by SEAL Team 6.
"We would go kill high-value targets every night," the Shooter tells me. He and other ST6 members who would later be on the Abbottabad trip lived in rough huts with mud floors and cots. "But we were completely disrupting Al Qaeda and other Iraqi networks. If we only killed five or six guys a night, we were wasting our time. We knew this was the greatest moment of our operational lives."
From Al Asad to Ramadi to Baghdad to Baquba — Al Qaeda central at the time — the SEALs had latitude to go after "everyone we thought we had to kill. That's really a major reason the surge was going so well, because terrorists were dying strategically."
During one raid, accompanied by two dogs, the Shooter says that he and his team wiped out "an entire spiderweb network." Villagers told Iraqi newspapers the next day that "Ninjas came with lions."
It is important to him to stress that no women or children were killed in that raid. He also insists that when it came to interrogation, repetitive questioning and leveraging fear was as aggressive as he'd go. "When we first started the war in Iraq, we were using Metallica music to soften people up before we interrogated them," the Shooter says. "Metallica got wind of this and they said, 'Hey, please don't use our music because we don't want to promote violence.' I thought, Dude, you have an album called Kill 'Em All.
"But we stopped using their music, and then a band called Demon Hunter got in touch and said, 'We're all about promoting what you do.' They sent us CDs and patches. I wore my Demon Hunter patch on every mission. I wore it when I blasted bin Laden."
On deployment in Afghanistan or Iraq, they would "eat, work out, play Xbox, study languages, do schoolwork." And watch the biker series Sons of Anarchy, Entourage, and three or four seasons of The Shield.
They were rural high school football stars, backwoods game hunters, and Ivy League graduates thrown together by a serious devotion to the cause, and to the action. Accessories, upbringing, and cultural tastes were just preamble, though, to the real work. As for the Shooter, he jokes that his choice in life was to "go to the SEALs or go to jail." Not that he would have ever found himself behind bars, but he points out traits that all SEALs seem to have in common: the willingness to live beyond the edge, and to do anything, and the resolve to never quit.
The bin Laden mission was far from the most dangerous of his career. Once, he was pinned down near Asadabad, Afghanistan, while the SEALs were trying to disrupt Al Qaeda supply lines used to ambush Americans.
"Bullets flew between my gun and my face," he says, just as he was inserting some of his favorite Copenhagen chew and then open-field sprinting to retrieve some special equipment he had dropped. That fight ended when he called in air strikes along the eastern Afghan border to light up the enemy.
Opening a closet door once, team members found a boy inside. "The natural response was 'C'mon kid.' Then, boom, he blows himself up. Suicide bombers are fast. Other rooms and other places, "we'd go in and a guy would be sleeping. Up against the wall were his cologne, deodorant, soap, suicide vest, AK-47, and grenades."
He's also had to collect body parts of his close friends, most notably when a SEAL team chopper was shot down in Afghanistan's Kunar province in June 2005, killing eight SEALs. "We go to a lot of funerals."
But for all the big battle boasts that become a sort of currency among SEALs, the Shooter has a deep fondness for the comedy that comes from being around the bunch of guys who are the only people in the world with whom you have so much in common and the only people in the world who can know exactly what you do for a living.
"I realized when I joined I had to be a better shot and step up my humor. These guys were hilarious."
There are the now-famous pranks with a giant dildo — they called it the Staff of Power — discovered during training in an abandoned Miami building. SEALs would find photos of it inserted into their gas masks or at the bottom of a barrel of animal crackers they were eating. Goats were put in their personal cages at ST6 headquarters. Uniforms were borrowed and dyed pink. Boots were glued to the floor. Flash-bang grenades went off in their gear.
The area near the Shooter's cage was such a target for outlandish stunts that it was called the Gaza Strip.
Even in action, with all their high state of expertise and readiness, "we're normal people. We fall off ladders, land on the wrong roof, get bitten by dogs." In Iraq, a breacher was putting a charge on a door to blow it off its hinges when he mistakenly leaned against the doorbell. He quickly took off the charge and the target opened the door. We were like, "You rang the fucking doorbell?!" Maybe we should try that more often, the Shooter thought to himself.
The dead can also be funny, as long as it's not your guys. "In Afghanistan we were cutting away the clothes on this dead dude to see if he had a suicide vest on, only to find that he had a huge dick, down to his knees. From then on, we called him Abu Dujan Holmes.
And then there was the time that the Shooter shit himself on a tandem jump with a huge SEAL who outweighed him by sixty pounds. "The goddamn main chute yanked so hard he slipped two disks in his neck and I filled my socks with human feces. I told him, 'Hey, dude, this is a horrible day.' He said if I went to our reserve chute, 'you're gonna fucking kill me.' He was that convinced his head was going to rip off his body.
"Okay, so I'm flying this broken chute, shitting my pants with this near-dead guy connected to me. And we eat shit on the landing. We're lying there and the chute is dragging us across the ground. I hear him go, 'Yeah, that's my last jump for today.' And I said, 'That's cool. Can I borrow your boxers?'
"We jumped the next day."
The Shooter's willingness to endure comes from a deep personal well of confidence and drive that seems to also describe every one of his peers. But his odyssey through countless outposts in Afghanistan and Iraq to skydives into the Indian Ocean — situations that are always strewn with violence and with his own death always imminent — is grounded by a sense of deep confederacy.
"I'm lucky to be with these guys. I'm not going to let them down. I was going to go in for a few years, but then I met these other guys and stuck around because of them." He and one buddy made their first kills at exactly the same time, in Ramadi. Shared bloodletting is as much a bonding agent as shared blood.
After Team 6 SEAL Adam Brown was killed in March 2010, Brown's squadron members approached the dead man's kids at the funeral. They were screaming and inconsolable. "You may have lost a father," one of them said, "but you've gained twenty fathers."
Most of those SEALs would be killed the next year when their helicopter was shot down in eastern Wardak province.
The Shooter feels both the losses and connections no less keenly now that he's out. "One of my closest friends in the world I've been with in SEAL Team 6 the whole time," he says.
The Shooter's friend is also looking for a viable exit from the Navy. As he prepared to deploy again, he agreed to talk with me on the condition that I not identify him.
"My wife doesn't want me to stay in one more minute than I have to," he says. But he's several years away from official retirement. "I agree that civilian life is scary. And I've got a family to take care of. Most of us have nothing to offer the public. We can track down and kill the enemy really well, but that's it.
"If I get killed on this next deployment, I know my family will be taken care of." (The Navy does offer decent life-insurance policies at low rates.) "College will be paid for, they'll be fine.
"But if I come back alive and retire, I won't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out for the rest of my life. Sad to say, it's better if I get killed."




4."IS THIS THE BEST THING I'VE EVER DONE, OR THE WORST?"
When we entered the main building, there was a hallway with rooms off to the side. Dead ahead is the door to go upstairs. There were women screaming downstairs. They saw the others get shot, so they were upset. I saw a girl, about five, crying in the corner, first room on the right as we were going in. I went, picked her up, and brought her to another woman in the room on the left so she didn't have to be just with us. She seemed too out of it to be scared. There had to be fifteen people downstairs, all sleeping together in that one room. Two dead bodies were also in there.
Normally, the SEALs have a support or communications guy who watches the women and children. But this was a pared-down mission intended strictly for an assault, without that extra help. We didn't really have anyone that could stay back.
So we're looking down the hallway at the door to the stairwell. I figured this was the only door to get upstairs, which means the people upstairs can't get down. If there had been another way up, we would have found it by then.
We were at a standstill on the ground floor, waiting for the breacher to do his work.
We'd always assumed we'd be surrounded at some point. You see the videos of him walking around and he's got all those jihadis. But they weren't prepared. They got all complacent. The guys that could shoot shot, but we were on top of them so fast.
Right then, I heard one of the guys talking about something, blah, blah, blah, the helo crashed. I asked, What helo crashed? He said it was in the yard. And I said, Bullshit! We're never getting out of here now. We have to kill this guy. I thought we'd have to steal cars and drive to Islamabad. Because the other option was to stick around and wait for the Pakistani military to show up. Hopefully, we don't shoot it out with them. We're going to end up in prison here, with someone negotiating for us, and that's just bad. That's when I got concerned.
I've thought about death before, when I've been pinned down for an hour getting shot at. And I wondered what it was going to feel like taking one of those in the face. How long was it going to hurt? But I didn't think about that here.
One of the snipers who'd seen the disabled helo approached just before they went into the main building. He said, "Hey, dude, they've got an awesome mock-up of our helo in their yard." I said, "No, dude. They shot one of ours down." He said, "Okay, that makes more sense than the shit I was saying."
The breacher had to blast the door twice for it to open. We started rolling up.
Team members didn't need much communication, or any orders, once they were on line. We're reading each other every second. We've gotten so good at war, we didn't need anything more.
I was about five guys back on the stairway when I saw the point man holding up. He'd seen Khalid, bin Laden's [twenty-three-year-old] son. I heard him whisper, "Khalid... come here..." in Arabic, then in Pashto. He used his name. That confused Khalid. He's probably thinking, "I just heard shitty Arabic and shitty Pashto. Who the fuck is this?" He leaned out, armed with an AK, and he got blasted by the point man. That call-out was one of the best combat moves I've ever seen. Khalid had on a white T-shirt and, like, white pajama pants. He was the last line of security.
I remember thinking then: I wish we could live through this night, because this is amazing. I was still expecting all kinds of funky shit like escape slides or safe rooms.
The point man moved past doors on the second floor and the four or five guys in front of me started to peel off to clear those rooms, which is always how the flow works. We're just clearing as we go, watching our backs.
They step over and past Khalid, who's dead on the stairs.
The point man, at that time, saw a guy on the third floor, peeking around a curtain in front of the hallway. Bin Laden was the only adult male left to find. The point man took a shot, maybe two, and the man upstairs disappeared back into a room. I didn't see that because I was looking back.
I don't think he hit him. He thinks he might have.
So there's the point man on the stairs, waiting for someone to move into the number-two position. Originally I was five or six man, but the train flowed off to clear the second floor. So I roll up behind him. He told me later, "I knew I had some ass," meaning somebody to back him up. I turn around and look. There's nobody else coming up.
On the third floor, there were two chicks yelling at us and the point man was yelling at them and he said to me, "Hey, we need to get moving. These bitches is getting truculent." I remember saying to myself, Truculent? Really? Love that word.
I kept looking behind us, and there was still no one else there.
By then we realized we weren't getting more guys. We had to move, because bin Laden is now going to be grabbing some weapon because he's getting shot at. I had my hand on the point man's shoulder and squeezed, a signal to go. The two of us went up. On the third floor, he tackled the two women in the hallway right outside the first door on the right, moving them past it just enough. He thought he was going to absorb the blast of suicide vests; he was going to kill himself so I could get the shot. It was the most heroic thing I've ever seen.
I rolled past him into the room, just inside the doorway.
There was bin Laden standing there. He had his hands on a woman's shoulders, pushing her ahead, not exactly toward me but by me, in the direction of the hallway commotion. It was his youngest wife, Amal.
The SEALs had nightscopes, but it was coal-black for bin Laden and the other residents. He can hear but he can't see.
He looked confused. And way taller than I was expecting. He had a cap on and didn't appear to be hit. I can't tell you 100 percent, but he was standing and moving. He was holding her in front of him. Maybe as a shield, I don't know.
For me, it was a snapshot of a target ID, definitely him. Even in our kill houses where we train, there are targets with his face on them. This was repetition and muscle memory. That's him, boom, done.
I thought in that first instant how skinny he was, how tall and how short his beard was, all at once. He was wearing one of those white hats, but he had, like, an almost shaved head. Like a crew cut. I remember all that registering. I was amazed how tall he was, taller than all of us, and it didn't seem like he would be, because all those guys were always smaller than you think.
I'm just looking at him from right here [he moves his hand out from his face about ten inches]. He's got a gun on a shelf right there, the short AK he's famous for. And he's moving forward. I don't know if she's got a vest and she's being pushed to martyr them both. He's got a gun within reach. He's a threat. I need to get a head shot so he won't have a chance to clack himself off [blow himself up].
In that second, I shot him, two times in the forehead. Bap! Bap! The second time as he's going down. He crumpled onto the floor in front of his bed and I hit him again, Bap! same place. That time I used my EOTech red-dot holo sight. He was dead. Not moving. His tongue was out. I watched him take his last breaths, just a reflex breath.
And I remember as I watched him breathe out the last part of air, I thought: Is this the best thing I've ever done, or the worst thing I've ever done? This is real and that's him. Holy shit.
Everybody wanted him dead, but nobody wanted to say, Hey, you're going to kill this guy. It was just sort of understood that's what we wanted to do.
His forehead was gruesome. It was split open in the shape of a V. I could see his brains spilling out over his face. The American public doesn't want to know what that looks like.
Amal turned back, and she was screaming, first at bin Laden and then at me. She came at me like she wanted to fight me, or that she wanted to die instead of him. So I put her on the bed, bound with zip ties. Then I realized that bin Laden's youngest son, who is about two or three, was standing there on the other side of the bed. I didn't want to hurt him, because I'm not a savage. There was a lot of screaming, he was crying, just in shock. I didn't like that he was scared. He's a kid, and had nothing to do with this. I picked him up and put him next to his mother. I put some water on his face.
The point man came in and zip-tied the other two women he'd grabbed.
The third-floor action and killing took maybe fifteen seconds.
The Shooter's oldest child calls the place his dad worked "Crapghanistan," maybe because his deployments meant he regularly missed Christmases, birthdays, and other holidays.
"Our marriage was definitely a casualty of his career," says the Shooter's wife. They are officially split but still live together. Separate bedrooms, low overhead. "Somewhere along the line we lost track of each other." She holds his priorities partially responsible: SEAL first, father second, husband third.
This part of the Shooter's story is, as his wife puts it, "unique to us but unfortunately not unique in the community."
SEAL operators are gone up to three hundred days a year. And when they're not in theater, they're training or soaking in the company of their buds in the absorbing clubhouse atmosphere of ST6 headquarters.
"We can't talk with anyone else about what we do," the Shooter says, "or about anything else other than maybe skydiving and broken spleens. When it comes to socializing, it's really tight."
His wife understands that "so much of their survival is dependent on the fact that their friends and their jobs are so intertwined." And that "we lived our lives under a veil of secrecy."
SEAL Team 6 spouses are nicknamed the Pink Squadron, because the women also rely on their hermetic connections to other wives. When you have no idea where your husband is or what he's doing, other than that it's mortally dangerous, and you can't discuss it — not even with your own mother — your world can feel desperately small.
But his wife's concerns, and her own narrative, convey a faithfulness that extends beyond marital fidelity.
She has comforted him when he was "inconsolable" after a mission in which he shot the parents of a boy in a crossfire. "He was reliving it, as a dad himself, when he was telling me." Not long after, she tended to him when she found him heavily sedated with an open bottle of Ambien and his pistol nearby.
The command had mandatory psych evaluations. During one of those, the Shooter told the psychologist, "I was having suicidal thoughts and drinking too much." The doctor's response? "He told me this was normal for SEALs after combat deployment. He told me I should just drink less and not hurt anybody."
The Shooter's wife is indignant. "That's not normal!" Though she knows that "every time you send your husband off to war, you get a slightly different person back."
The alone times are deeply trying.
Several years ago, a SEAL friend had died in a helicopter crash. The Shooter's wife had just been to his funeral, consoling his widow. The Shooter was on the same deployment, and she had not heard anything about his status.
"I came home and was inside holding our infant child. Our front door is all glass, and I see a man in a khaki uniform coming up the steps. All I could do was think, I'd better put the baby down because I'm going to faint. So I set the baby on the floor and answered the door. It was a neighbor with a baby bib I'd dropped outside. I swore at him and slammed the door in his face."
It was four days more before she heard that her husband was safe.
Given all of that, she has a surprising equanimity about her life. Talking with them separately, the couple's love for each other is evident and deep. "We've grown so much together," she says. "We'll always be best friends. I'll love him till the day I die."
She remains in awe of "the level of brilliance these men have. To be surrounded by that caliber of people is something I'll always be grateful for."
Her husband's retirement has been no less jarring for her. "He gave so much to his country, and now it seems he's left in the dust. I feel there's no support, not just for my family but for other families in the community. I honestly have nobody I can go to or talk to. Nor do I feel my husband has gotten much for what he's accomplished in his career."
Exactly what, if any, responsibility should the government have to her family?
The loss of income and insurance and no pension aside, she can no longer walk onto the local base if she feels a threat to her family. They've surrendered their military IDs. If something were to happen, the Shooter has instructed her to take the kids to the base gate anyway and demand to see the commanding officer, or someone from the SEAL team. "He said someone will come get us."
Because of the mission, she says that "my family is always going to be at risk. It's just a matter of finding coping strategies."
The Shooter still dips his hand in his pocket when they're in a store, checking for a knife in case there's an emergency. He also keeps his eyes on the exits.
He's lost some vision, he can't get his neck straight for any period of time. Right now, she's just waiting to see what he creates for himself in this new life.
And she's waiting to see how he replaces even the $60,000 a year he was making (with special pay bonuses for different activities). Or how they can afford private health insurance that covers spinal injections she needs for her own sports injuries.
"This is new to us, not having the team."




5."WE ALL DID IT."
Within another fifteen seconds, other team members started coming in the room. Here, the Shooter demurs about whether subsequent SEALs also fired into bin Laden's body. He's not feeding raw meat to what is an increasingly strict government focus on the etiquette of these missions. But I would have done it if I'd come in the room later. I knew I was going to shoot him if I saw him, regardless.
I even joked about that with the guys before we were there. "I don't give a shit if you kill him — if I come in the room, I'm shooting his ass. I don't care if he's deader than fried chicken."
In the compound, I thought about getting my camera, and I knew we needed to take pictures and ID him. We had a saying, "You kill him, you clean him." But I was just in a little bit of a zone. I had to actually ask one of my friends who came into the room, "Hey, what do we do now?" He said, "Now we go find the computers." And I remember saying, "Yes! I'm back! Got it!" Because I was almost stunned.
Then I just wanted to go get out of the house. We all had a DNA test kit, but I knew another team would be in there to do all that. So I went down to the second floor where the offices were, the media center. We started breaking apart the computer hard drives, cracking the towers. We were looking for thumb drives and disks, throwing them into our net bags.
In each computer room, there was a bed. Under the beds were these huge duffel bags, and I'm pulling them out, looking for whatever. At first I thought they were filled with vacuum-sealed rib-eye steaks. I thought, They're in this for the long haul. They've got all this food. Then, wait a minute. This is raw opium. These drugs are everywhere. It was pretty funny to see that. Altogether, he helped clean three rooms on the second floor.
The Shooter did not see bin Laden's body again until he and the point man helped two others carry it, already bagged, down the building's hallways and out into the courtyard by the front gate. I saw a sniper buddy of mine down there and I told him, "That's our guy. Hold on to him." Others took the corpse to the surviving Black Hawk.
With one helo down, the Shooter was relieved to hear the sound of the 47 Chinook transports arriving. His exfil (extraction) flight out was on one of the 47's, which had almost been blown out of the sky by the SEALs' own explosive charges, set to destroy the downed Black Hawk.
One backup SEAL Team 6 member on the flight asked who'd killed UBL. I said I fucking killed him. He's from New York and says, "No shit. On behalf of my family, thank you." And I thought: Wow, I've got a Navy SEAL telling me thanks?
"You probably thought you'd never hear this," someone piped through the intercom system over an hour into the return flight, "but welcome back to Afghanistan."
Back at the Jalalabad base, we pulled bin Laden out of the bag to show McRaven and the CIA. That's when McRaven had a tall SEAL lie down next to bin Laden to assess his height, along with other, slightly more scientific identity tests.
With the body laid out and under inspection, you could see more gunshot wounds to bin Laden's chest and legs.
While they were still checking the body, I brought the agency woman over. I still had all my stuff on. We looked down and I asked, "Is that your guy?" She was crying. That's when I took my magazine out of my gun and gave it to her as a souvenir. Twenty-seven bullets left in it. "I hope you have room in your backpack for this." That was the last time I saw her.
From there, the team accompanied the body to nearby Bagram Airfield. During the next few hours, the thought that hit me was "This is awesome. This is great. We lived. This is perfect. We just did it all."
The moment truly struck at Bagram when I'm eating a breakfast sandwich, standing near bin Laden's body, looking at a big-screen TV with the president announcing the raid. I'm sitting there watching him, looking at the body, looking at the president, eating a sausage-egg-cheese-and-extra-bacon sandwich thinking, "How the fuck did I get here? This is too much."
I still didn't know if it would be good or bad. The good was having done something great for my country, for the guys, for the people of New York. It was closure. An honor to be there.
I never expected people to be screaming "U.S.A.!" with Geraldo outside the White House.
The bad part was security. He was their prophet, basically. Now we killed him and I have to worry about this forever. Al Qaeda, especially these days, is 99 percent talk. But that 1 percent of the time they do shit, it's bad. They're capable of horrific things.
We listened to the Al Qaeda phone calls where one guy is saying, "We gotta find out who ratted on bin Laden." The other guy says, "I heard he did it to himself. He was locked up in that house with three wives." Funny terrorists.
At Bagram, the point man asked, "Hey, was he hit when you went into the room? I thought I shot him in the head and his cap flew off." I said I didn't know, but he was still walking and he had his hat on. The point man was like "Okay. No big deal."
By then we had showered and were having some refreshments. We weren't comparing dicks. I've been in a lot of battles with this guy. He's a fucking amazing warrior, the most honorable, truthful dude I know. I trust him with my life.
The Shooter said he and the point man participated in a shooters-only debrief with military officials around a trash can in Jalalabad and then a long session at Bagram Airfield, but they left some details ambiguous. The point man said he took two shots and thought one may have hit bin Laden. He said his number two went into the room "and finished him off as he was circling the drain." This was not exactly as it had gone down, but everyone seemed satisfied.
Early government versions of the shooting talked about bin Laden using his wife as protection and being shot by a SEAL inside the room. But subsequent accounts, from officials and others like Bissonnette, further muddied the story and obscured the facts.
What the two SEALs did discuss after the action was why there'd been a short gap before more assaulters joined them on the third floor. "Where was everybody else?" the point man asked. I told him we just ran thin.
Guys went left and right on the second floor and it was just us. Everything happened really fast. Everybody did their jobs. Any team member would have done exactly what I did.
At Jalalabad, as we got off the plane there was an air crew there, guys who fix helicopters. They hugged me and knew I'd killed him. I don't know how the hell word spread that fast.
McRaven himself came over to me, very emotional. He grabbed me across the back of my neck like a proud father and gave me a hug. He knew what had happened, too.
Not long after, a senior government official had an unofficial phone call with the mentor. "Your boy was the one," the mentor says he was told. The Shooter was alternately shocked and pleased to know that word got back to the States before I did. "Who killed bin Laden?" was the first question, and then the name just flies.
And it was the Shooter who, when an Obama administration official asked for details during the president's private visit with the bin Laden team at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, said "We all did it."
The SEAL standing next to the Shooter would say later, "Man, I was dying to tell him it was you."
From the moment reporters started getting urgent texts hours before President Obama's official announcement on May 1, 2011, the bin Laden mission exploded into public view. Suddenly, a brilliant spotlight was shining where shadows had ruled for decades.
TV trucks descended on the SEAL Team 6 community in Virginia Beach, showing their homes and hangouts.
"The big mission changed a lot of attitudes around the command," the Shooter says. "There were suspicions about whether anyone was selling out."
It had begun "when we were still in the Jalalabad hangar with our shit on. There was a lot of 'Don't let this go to your head, don't talk to anyone,' not even our own Red Team guys who hadn't gone with us."
The assaulters "were immediately put in a box, like a time-out," says the Shooter's close friend, who was not on the mission. "'Don't open your mouth.' I would have flown them to Tahoe for a week."
But even with the SEALs' strong history of institutional modesty, there was no unringing this bell.
The potential for public fame was too great, and suspicion was high inside SEAL Team 6.
The Shooter was among those reprimanded for going out to a bar to celebrate the night they got back home. And he was supposed to report for work the next morning, but instead took the day off to spend with his kids.
Twenty-four hours later came the offer of witness protection, driving the beer truck in Milwaukee. "That was the best idea on the table for security."
"Maybe some courtesy eyes-on checks" of his home, he thought. "Send some Seabees over to put in a heavier, metal-reinforced front door. Install some sensors or something. But there was literally nothing."
He considered whether to get a gun permit for life outside the perimeter.
The SEALs are proud of being ready for "anything and everything." But when it came to his family's safety? "I don't have the resources."
With gossip and finger-pointing continuing over the mission, the Shooter made a decision "to show I wasn't a douchebag, that I'm still part of this team and believe in what we're doing."
He re-upped for another four-month deployment. It would be in the brutal cold of Afghanistan's winter.
But he had already decided this would be his last deployment, his SEAL Team 6 sayonara.
"I wanted to see my children graduate and get married." He hoped to be able to sleep through the night for the first time in years. "I was burned out," he says. "And I realized that when I stopped getting an adrenaline rush from gunfights, it was time to go."




May 1, 2012, the first anniversary of the bin Laden mission. The Shooter is getting ready to go play with his kids at a water park. He's watching CNN.
"They were saying, 'So now we're taking viewer e-mails. Do you remember where you were when you found out Osama bin Laden was dead?' And I was thinking: Of course I remember. I was in his bedroom looking down at his body."
The standing ovation of a country in love with its secret warriors had devolved into a news quiz, even as new generations of SEALs are preparing for sacrifice in the Horn of Africa, Iran, perhaps Mexico.
The Shooter himself, an essential part of the team helping keep us safe since 9/11, is now on his own. He is enjoying his family, finally, and won't be kissing his kids goodbye as though it were the last time and suiting up for the battlefield ever again.
But when he officially separates from the Navy three months later, where do his sixteen years of training and preparedness go on his résumé? Who in the outside world understands the executive skills and keen psychological fortitude he and his First Tier colleagues have absorbed into their DNA? Who is even allowed to know? And where can he go to get any of these questions answered?
There is a Transition Assistance Program in the military, but it's largely remedial level, rote advice of marginal value: Wear a tie to interviews, not your Corfam (black shiny service) shoes. Try not to sneeze in anyone's coffee.
"It's criminal to me that these guys walk out the door naked," says retired Marine major general Mike Myatt. "They're the greatest of their generation; they know how to get things done. If I were a Fortune 500 company, I'd try to get my hands on any one of them." General Myatt, standing in the mezzanine of the Marines Memorial building he runs in San Francisco, is surrounded by so many Marine memorial plaques he's had to expand the memorial around the corner due to so many deaths over the past eleven years of war.
He is furious about the high unemployment rate among returning infantrymen and has taken on that issue as his own, as well as homelessness, PTSD, and the other plagues of regular troops returning home.
General Myatt believes "the U.S. military is the best in the world at transitioning from civilian to military life and the worst in the world at transitioning back." And that, he acknowledges, doesn't even begin to consider the separate and distinct travesty visited on the Shooter and his comrades.
The Special Operations men are special beyond their operations. "These guys are self-actualizers," says a retired rear admiral and former SEAL I spoke with. "Top of the pyramid. If they wanted to build companies, they could. They can do anything they put their minds to. That's how smart they are."
But what's available to these superskilled retiring public servants? "Pretty much nothing," says the admiral. "It's 'Thank you for your service, good luck.'"
One third-generation military man who has worked both inside and outside government, and who has fought for vets for decades, is sympathetic to the problem. But he notes that the Pentagon is dealing with two hundred thousand new veterans a year, compared with perhaps a few dozen SEALs. "Can and should the DOD spend the extra effort it would take to help the superelite guys get with exactly the kind of employers they should have? Investment bankers, say, value that competition, drive, and discipline, not to mention people with security clearances. They [Tier One vets] should be plugged in at executive levels. Any employers who think about it would want to hire these people."
For officials, however, everyone signing out of war is a hero, and even for the masses of retirees, programs are sporadic and often ineffectual. Michelle Obama and Jill Biden have both made transitioning vets a personal cause, though these efforts are largely gestural and don't reach nearly high enough for the skill sets of a member of SEAL Team 6.
The Virginia-based Navy SEAL Foundation has a variety of supportive programs for the families of SEALs, and the foundation spends $3.2 million a year maintaining them. But as yet they have no real method or programs for upper-level job placement of their most practiced constituency.
A businessman associated with the foundation says he understands that there is a need the foundation does not fill. "This is an ongoing thing where lots of people seem to want to help but no one has ever really done it effectively because our community is so small. No one's ever cracked it. And there real-ly needs to be an education effort well before they separate [from the service] to tell them, 'The world you're about to enter is very different than the one you've been operating in the last fifteen or twenty years.'" One former SEAL I spoke with is a Harvard MBA and now a very successful Wall Street trader whose career path is precisely the kind of example that should be evangelized to outgoing SEALs. His own life reflects that "SpecOps guys could be hugely value-added" to civilian companies, though he says business schools — degrees in general — might be an important step. "It would be great to get a panel of CEOs together who are ready to help these guys get hired." Some big companies do have veteran-outreach specialists — former SEAL Harry Wingo fills that role at Google.
But these individual and scattered shots still do not provide what is needed: a comprehensive battle plan.
In San Francisco recently, I talked about the Special Ops issue with Twitter CEO Dick Costolo and venture capitalist and Orbitz chairman Jeff Clarke. Both are very interested in offering a business luminary hand to help clandestine operators make their final jump. There is enthusiastic consensus among the business and military people I have canvassed that this kind of outside help is required, perhaps a new nonprofit financed and driven by the Costolos and Clarkes of the world.
Even before he retired, the Shooter's new business plan dissolved when the SEAL Team 6 members who formed it decided to go in different directions, each casting for a civilian professional life that's challenging and rewarding. The stark realities of post-SEAL life can make even the blood of brothers turn a little cold.
"I still have the same bills I had in the Navy," the Shooter tells me when we talk in September 2012. But no money at all coming in, from anywhere.
"I just want to be able to pay all those bills, take care of my kids, and work from there," he says. "I'd like to take the things I learned and help other people in any way I can."
In the last few months, the Shooter has put together some work that involves a kind of discreet consulting for select audiences. But it's a per-event deal, and he's not sure how secure or long-term it will be. And he wants to be much more involved in making the post — SEAL Team 6 transition for others less uncertain.
The December suicide of one SEAL commander in Afghanistan and the combat death of another — a friend — while rescuing an American doctor from the Taliban underscore his urgent desire to make a difference on behalf of his friends.
He imagines traveling back to other parts of the world for a few days at a time to do dynamic surveys for businesses looking to put offices in countries that are not entirely safe, or to protect employees they already have in place.
But he is emphatic: He does not want to carry a gun. "I've fought all the fights. I don't have a need for excitement anymore. Honestly."
After all, when you've killed the world's most wanted man, not everything should have to be a battle.
"They torture the shit out of people in this movie, don't they? Everyone is chained to something."
The Shooter is sitting next to me at a local movie theater in January, watching Zero Dark Thirty for the first time. He laughs at the beginning of the film about the bin Laden hunt when the screen reads, "Based on firsthand accounts of actual events."
His uncle, who is also with us, along with the mentor and the Shooter's wife, had asked him earlier whether he'd seen the film already.
"I saw the original," the Shooter said. As the action moves toward the mission itself, I ask the Shooter whether his heart is beating faster. "No," he says matter-of-factly. But when a SEAL Team 6 movie character yells, "Breacher!" for someone to blow one of the doors of the Abbottabad compound, the Shooter says loudly, "Are you fucking kidding me? Shut up!"
He explains afterward that no one would ever yell, "Breacher!" during an assault. Deadly silence is standard practice, a fist to the helmet sufficient signal for a SEAL with explosive packets to go to work.
During the shooting sequence, which passes, like the real one, in a flash, his fingers form a steeple under his chin and his focus is intense.
But his criticisms at dinner afterward are minor.
"The tattoo scene was horrible," he says about a moment in the film when the ST6 assault group is lounging in Afghanistan waiting to go. "Those guys had little skulls or something instead of having some real ink that goes up to here." He points to his shoulder blade.
"It was fun to watch. There was just little stuff. The helos turned the wrong way [toward the target], and they talked way, way too much [during the assault itself]. If someone was waiting for you, they could track your movements that way."
The tactics on the screen "sucked," he says, and "the mission in the damn movie took way too long" compared with the actual event. The stairs inside bin Laden's building were configured inaccurately. A dog in the film was a German shepherd; the real one was a Belgian Malinois who'd previously been shot in the chest and survived. And there's no talking on the choppers in real life.
There was also no whispered calling out of bin Laden as the SEALs stared up the third-floor stairwell toward his bedroom. "When Osama went down, it was chaos, people screaming. No one called his name."
"They Hollywooded it up some."
The portrayal of the chief CIA human bloodhound, "Maya," based on a real woman whose iron-willed assurance about the compound and its residents moved a government to action, was "awesome" says the Shooter. "They made her a tough woman, which she is."
The Shooter and the mentor joke with each other about the latest thermal/night-vision eyewear used in the movie, which didn't exist when the older man was a SEAL.
"Dude, what the fuck? How come I never got my four-eye goggles?"
"We have those." "Are you kidding me?"
"SEAL Team 6, baby."
They laugh, at themselves as much as at each other.
The Shooter seems smoothed out, untroubled, as relaxed as I've seen him.
But the conversation turns dark when they discuss the portrayal of the other CIA operative, Jennifer Matthews, who was among seven people killed in 2009 when a suicide bomber was allowed into one of their black-ops stations in Afghanistan.
They both knew at least one of the paramilitary contractors who perished with her.
The supper table is suddenly flooded with the surge of strong emotions. Anguish, really, though they both hide it well. This is not a movie. It's real life, where death is final and threats last forever.
The blood is your own, not fake splatter and explosive squibs.
Movies, books, lore — we all helped make these men brilliant assassins in the name of liberty, lifted them up on our shoulders as unique and exquisitely trained heroes, then left them alone in the shadows of their past.
Uncertainty will never be far away for the Shooter. His government may have shut the door on him, but he is required to live inside the consequences of his former career.
One line from the film kept resonating in my head.
An actor playing a CIA station chief warns Maya about jihadi vengeance.
"Once you're on their list," he says, "you never get off."


Phil Bronstein is the former editor of the San Francisco Chronicle and currently serves as executive chairman of the Center for Investigative Reporting (http://cironline.org/). This piece was reported in cooperation with CIR.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33921.htm

Peter Lemkin
03-28-2013, 06:20 PM
In February, Esquire magazine published a lengthy profile of "The Man Who Killed Osama bin Laden." The story did not identify the killer by his real name, referring to him only as "the Shooter." Now, another member of the secretive SEAL Team 6, which executed the bin Laden raid, tells CNN the story of the Shooter as presented in Esquire is false. According to this serving SEAL Team 6 operator, the story is "complete B-S."

Jeffrey Orling
03-28-2013, 09:57 PM
All official stories are BS... notice a pattern?

Coby Brendon
04-30-2013, 01:43 AM
Is it true that osama bin laden died? this news broke. Then now, the war from terrorism is over. Finally the nightmare that has kept of americans fear and distraught is now over. Rest in peace osama bin laden.

Jim Hackett II
04-30-2013, 08:43 AM
Kiss my ass.
Rest in hell you thief of peace.
Osama you son-of-a-bitch.
This Gyrene wanted a piece of your ass Osama,
but the Seals got ya first, chickenshit.

Tell it all to someone that has the time for bullshit.
I do not.
Rest in hell Osama.

Jim Hackett II
04-30-2013, 09:52 AM
I considered deleting the above post.

I decided I will let it stand if the moderators do so.

But that post and this addendum will be my last word on the Osama "ain't dead", BS

I apologize to all Islamic folks that wish me no harm. The loonies that do?
The loonies know where I stand.

With the vast majority of Americans -
make your problems my problems and I will be forced to deal with your lunacy -
up close and personal. We'll reach out and touch our enemy.

Terrorism is not NEW.
It first entered my life when I came home from the "National Drags" Labor Day 1972. Olympic Dreams shattered by unbrave chumps holding automatic weapons on UNARMED atheletes, oh boy that is something I can respect and support --- NOT!
Chickenshits take men in sleep and by force, wait more shit piles were coming from the terrorists. 11 of them with the help of the Fascists of West German authorities.

Corrupt Government again rears its ugly head in the release of the captured "munich three" live terrorists within weeks.
Germany is not the target of the idiots even today.
Peace secured for them at a cost to ... Me and all of Us.

My mindset about terrorists was made up then, long ago in the time of Vietnam, Apollo, Bobby Fischer and Dick Nixon. My attitude hasn't changed.

Me as POTUS on 09-11-2001?

Nuke the Tora Bora with the biggest nuke we have
and bury the SOB and his Al Queda friends
under glow-in-the-dark rocks.

As soon as the actionable intel was in my hand and the punk located and confirmed.
Pull out my folks and allies and let it fly.

No war forever, no Patriot Act, all a done deal in October.
No second war for missing WMDs.
No Pakistan duplicity in hiding our enemy.
They really don't dare war on the US.
But the terrorists harbored do.

In that case the last thing I would care about would be "world opinion".
Sometimes a nations people must pay for the actions of their government.
A fact many nations should be thinking about.
To include the US and WeThePeople.

Jan Klimkowski
04-30-2013, 05:26 PM
Is it true that osama bin laden died? this news broke. Then now, the war from terrorism is over. Finally the nightmare that has kept of americans fear and distraught is now over. Rest in peace osama bin laden.

Coby - DPF welcomes new members, and fresh insights.

We don't need new arrivals to be Deep Political Giants at birth.

But please - we expect a higher quality of post than this, which is frankly insulting to the collective intelligence of DPF.

David Guyatt
05-08-2013, 05:48 PM
Coming late to this discussion, and too lazy to read 44 pages, my question (and sorry if it's been asked before) is this:

If you have an unarmed Bin Laden in your sights why shoot him? Why not capture the top honcho of al Qaeda, rendition his ass back to Guantanamo and bleed him of every single ounce of information his has, all the top people's whereabouts, safe houses, funding providers, planned operations etc etc?

The US do this of so many other alleged al Qaeda members why not him? Why top him and dump him in the sea of forgetfulness? Frankly, it does't make any sort of sense. At least as the story and his legend stands.

In fact, it's complete bollocks.

Magda Hassan
05-09-2013, 12:38 AM
Coming late to this discussion, and too lazy to read 44 pages, my question (and sorry if it's been asked before) is this:

If you have an unarmed Bin Laden in your sights why shoot him? Why not capture the top honcho of al Qaeda, rendition his ass back to Guantanamo and bleed him of every single ounce of information his has, all the top people's whereabouts, safe houses, funding providers, planned operations etc etc?

The US do this of so many other alleged al Qaeda members why not him? Why top him and dump him in the sea of forgetfulness? Frankly, it does't make any sort of sense. At least as the story and his legend stands.

In fact, it's complete bollocks.
Ah, but David, that is because they actually want information from the other prisoners. And they want to terrorise the 'terrorists' about what can happen to them if they don't play the Empire's game. The very last thing they want is OBL spilling the beans on all their good work together over the decades. That is on a need to know basis and the pop up Osama doesn't need to know any more and we don't need to know about him from him. We are only allowed to know about him from them. There is only one official truth after all. And it was all done very respectfully and in accordance with the traditional Muslim burial at sea...so they say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V_kSd7Uimg

Magda Hassan
05-09-2013, 12:48 AM
And not everyone says he was buried at sea. Some who may be in a position to know claim the body was sent to Bethesda. It wouldn't be the first time Bethesda has interfered with a corpse that was not supposed to be there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=UX4xFDehCME

David Guyatt
05-09-2013, 07:30 AM
What a nieve old thing I am, eh.

Imagine even beginning to believe the official script. Not.

Dawn Meredith
05-15-2013, 01:03 PM
What a nieve old thing I am, eh.

Imagine even beginning to believe the official script. Not.

But Hillary is going to tell us all about this " Bin Laden murder" and "burial at sea" in her upcoming book.
You'd believe Hillary now wouldn't you? :lol:

Magda Hassan
07-08-2013, 12:47 PM
SECRET MOVE KEEPS BIN LADEN RECORDS IN THE SHADOWS
BY RICHARD LARDNER
ASSOCIATED PRESS



WASHINGTON (AP) -- The nation's top special operations commander ordered military files about the Navy SEAL raid on Osama bin Laden's hideout to be purged from Defense Department computers and sent to the CIA, where they could be more easily shielded from ever being made public.
The secret move, described briefly in a draft report by the Pentagon's inspector general, set off no alarms within the Obama administration even though it appears to have sidestepped federal rules and perhaps also the Freedom of Information Act.
An acknowledgement by Adm. William McRaven of his actions was quietly removed from the final version of an inspector general's report published weeks ago. A spokesman for the admiral declined to comment. The CIA, noting that the bin Laden mission was overseen by then-CIA Director Leon Panetta before he became defense secretary, said that the SEALs were effectively assigned to work temporarily for the CIA, which has presidential authority to conduct covert operations.
"Documents related to the raid were handled in a manner consistent with the fact that the operation was conducted under the direction of the CIA director," agency spokesman Preston Golson said in an emailed statement. "Records of a CIA operation such as the (bin Laden) raid, which were created during the conduct of the operation by persons acting under the authority of the CIA Director, are CIA records."
Golson said it is "absolutely false" that records were moved to the CIA to avoid the legal requirements of the Freedom of Information Act.
The records transfer was part of an effort by McRaven to protect the names of the personnel involved in the raid, according to the inspector general's draft report.
But secretly moving the records allowed the Pentagon to tell The Associated Press that it couldn't find any documents inside the Defense Department that AP had requested more than two years ago, and could represent a new strategy for the U.S. government to shield even its most sensitive activities from public scrutiny.
"Welcome to the shell game in place of open government," said Thomas Blanton, director of the National Security Archive, a private research institute at George Washington University. "Guess which shell the records are under. If you guess the right shell, we might show them to you. It's ridiculous."
McRaven's directive sent the only copies of the military's records about its daring raid to the CIA, which has special authority to prevent the release of "operational files" in ways that can't effectively be challenged in federal court. The Defense Department can prevent the release of its own military files, too, citing risks to national security. But that can be contested in court, and a judge can compel the Pentagon to turn over non-sensitive portions of records.
Under federal rules, transferring government records from one executive agency to another must be approved in writing by the National Archives and Records Administration. There are limited circumstances when prior approval is not required, such as when the records are moved between two components of the same executive department. The CIA and Special Operations Command are not part of the same department.
The Archives was not aware of any request from the U.S. Special Operations Command to transfer its records to the CIA, spokeswoman Miriam Kleiman said. She said it was the Archives' understanding that the military records belonged to the CIA, so transferring them wouldn't have required permission under U.S. rules.
Special Operations Command also is required to comply with rules established by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that dictate how long records must be retained. Its July 2012 manual requires that records about military operations and planning are to be considered permanent and after 25 years, following a declassification review, transferred to the Archives.
Also, the Federal Records Act would not permit agencies "to purge records just on a whim," said Dan Metcalfe, who oversaw the U.S. government's compliance with the Freedom of Information Act as former director of the Justice Department's Office of Information and Privacy. "I don't think there's an exception allowing an agency to say, `Well, we didn't destroy it. We just deleted it here after transmitting it over there.' High-level officials ought to know better."
It was not immediately clear exactly which Defense Department records were purged and transferred, when it happened or under what authority, if any, they were sent to the CIA. No government agencies the AP contacted would discuss details of the transfer. The timing may be significant: The Freedom of Information Act generally applies to records under an agency's control when a request for them is received. The AP asked for files about the mission in more than 20 separate requests, mostly submitted in May 2011 - several were sent a day after Obama announced that the world's most wanted terrorist had been killed in a firefight. Obama has pledged to make his administration the most transparent in U.S. history.
The AP asked the Defense Department and CIA separately for files that included copies of the death certificate and autopsy report for bin Laden as well as the results of tests to identify the body. While the Pentagon said it could not locate the files, the CIA, with its special power to prevent the release of records, has never responded. The CIA also has not responded to a separate request for other records, including documents identifying and describing the forces and supplies required to execute the assault on bin Laden's compound.
The CIA did tell the AP it could not locate any emails from or to Panetta and two other top agency officials discussing the bin Laden mission.
McRaven's unusual order would have remained secret had it not been mentioned in a single sentence on the final page in the inspector general's draft report that examined whether the Obama administration gave special access to Hollywood executives planning a film, "Zero Dark Thirty," about the raid. The draft report was obtained and posted online last month by the Project on Government Oversight, a nonprofit watchdog group in Washington.
McRaven, who oversaw the bin Laden raid, expressed concerns in the report about possible disclosure of the identities of the SEALs. The Pentagon "provided the operators and their families an inordinate level of security," the report said. McRaven also directed that the names and photographs associated with the raid not be released.
"This effort included purging the combatant command's systems of all records related to the operation and providing these records to another government agency," according to the draft report. The sentence was dropped from the report's final version.
Since the raid, one of the SEALs published a book about the raid under a pseudonym but was subsequently identified by his actual name. And earlier this year the SEAL credited with shooting bin Laden granted a tell-all, anonymous interview with Esquire about the raid and the challenges of his retiring from the military after 16 years without a pension.
Current and former Defense Department officials knowledgeable about McRaven's directive and the inspector general's report told AP the description of the order in the draft report was accurate. The reference to "another government agency" was code for the CIA, they said. These individuals spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter by name.
There is no indication the inspector general's office or anyone else in the U.S. government is investigating the legality of transferring the military records. Bridget Serchak, a spokeswoman for the inspector general, would not explain why the reference was left out of the final report and what, if any, actions the office might be taking.
"Our general statement is that any draft is pre-decisional and that drafts go through many reviews before the final version, including editing or changing language," Serchak wrote in an email.
The unexplained decision to remove the reference to the purge and transfer of the records "smells of bad faith," said Steven Aftergood, director of the Project on Government Secrecy at the Federation of American Scientists. "How should one understand that? That adds insult to injury. It essentially covers up the action."
McRaven oversaw the raid while serving as commander of the Joint Special Operations Command, the secretive outfit in charge of SEAL Team Six and the military's other specialized counterterrorism units. McRaven was nominated by Obama to lead Special Operations Command, JSOC's parent organization, a month before the raid on bin Laden's compound. He replaced Adm. Eric Olson as the command's top officer in August 2011.
Ken McGraw, a spokesman for Special Operations Command, referred questions to the inspector general's office.
The refusal to make available authoritative or contemporaneous records about the bin Laden mission means that the only official accounts of the mission come from U.S. officials who have described details of the raid in speeches, interviews and television appearances. In the days after bin Laden's death, the White House provided conflicting versions of events, falsely saying bin Laden was armed and even firing at the SEALs, misidentifying which of bin Laden's sons was killed and incorrectly saying bin Laden's wife died in the shootout. Obama's press secretary attributed the errors to the "fog of combat."
A U.S. judge and a federal appeals court previously sided with the CIA in a lawsuit over publishing more than 50 "post-mortem" photos and video recordings of bin Laden's corpse. In the case, brought by Judicial Watch, a conservative watchdog group, the CIA did not say the images were operational files to keep them secret. It argued successfully that the photos and videos must be withheld from the public to avoid inciting violence against Americans overseas and compromising secret systems and techniques used by the CIA and the military.
The Defense Department told the AP in March 2012 it could not locate any photographs or video taken during the raid or showing bin Laden's body. It also said it could not find any images of bin Laden's body on the USS Carl Vinson, the aircraft carrier from which he was buried at sea. The Pentagon also said it could not find any death certificate, autopsy report or results of DNA identification tests for bin Laden, or any pre-raid materials discussing how the government planned to dispose of bin Laden's body if he were killed. It said it searched files at the Pentagon, Special Operations Command headquarters in Tampa, Fla., and the Navy command in San Diego that controls the Carl Vinson.
The Pentagon also refused to confirm or deny the existence of helicopter maintenance logs and reports about the performance of military gear used in the raid. One of the stealth helicopters that carried the SEALs in Pakistan crashed during the mission and its wreckage was left behind.
The Defense Department also told the AP in February 2012 that it could not find any emails about the bin Laden mission or his "Geronimo" code name that were sent or received in the year before the raid by McRaven. The department did not say they had been moved to the CIA. It also said it could not find any emails from other senior officers who would have been involved in the mission's planning. It found only three such emails written by or sent to then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates, and these consisted of 12 pages sent to Gates summarizing news reports after the raid.
The Defense Department in November 2012 released copies of 10 emails totaling 31 pages found in the Carl Vinson's computer systems. The messages were heavily censored and described how bin Laden's body was prepared for burial.
These records were not among those purged and then moved to the CIA. Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. James Gregory said the messages from the Carl Vinson "were not relating to the mission itself and were the property of the Navy."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BIN_LADEN_FILES_PURGED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Phil Dragoo
07-08-2013, 04:34 PM
Documents related to the raid were handled in a manner consistent with the fact that the operation was conducted under the direction of the CIA director

To be sure.

Obama, may his handlers preserve his opacity, and Hillary-Huma, brotherhood is powerful but sisterhood is what it is, have assured us the video producer will continue to languish in prison while Al-Brennan conducts the Arab Spring Liberation Front operation.

Benghazi was a case of the occasional bad polling; Morsi's ouster must mean the recovery is just around the corner.

On to Damascus; don't ask us

for any files.

We can't find a thing

but now you're a

Person of Interest

Tracy Riddle
07-09-2013, 11:55 PM
In this post-constitutional era, they have no trouble finding the files they keep on all of us, but files on Bin Laden? Sorry, they're in the Former Employees section, and we can't find that right now.

Magda Hassan
07-10-2013, 11:10 AM
Pentagon Orders Purge of Osama Bin Laden’s Death Files from Data Bank

By Prof Michel Chossudovsky (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d7YEYtr6bZ1EKTxY7jyPbhYgGztJE W8ORUU6NpGDSCs4AYGUSQ1kPNjWPpTHBxMwgmu96_l6f9dOz77 IAZuPCPEeWlN2KYO8yyKPUw1DuINOSQgOsF3uLZXRNzfJx1zmU C-54jACZavkFj1jt3EMaQ0)
Global Research, July 09, 2013
Url of this article:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/pentagon-orders-purge-of-osama-bin-ladens-death-files-from-data-bank/5342055 (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d6hoSSiKUYCAoHb-6ToPwmI-C3hWcVlqSD4iOU-iVYCGJJW_X2OzVlA-NNOAocIWEFx7_EGJzGlVAbPuTz1DrMi70csq_C3cKJnq-G0uhgbMXIChNF3jAi3mAzGvrSD33hMAxLBwOnMWVnYHySghqBA Mgn8F_2H2BoFckz3R0wzze0NGLEsnBebcrPTjJhHAbvE8u4OwG r23Cz1LFFNxoaVg32LDSjGHaw=)


A new wave of camouflage is underway at the Pentagon and the CIA. The bin Laden “death files” contained in the Pentagon’s data bank have become the object of controversy.
Navy Vice Admiral William McRaven has been entrusted in removing these secret military files concerning the May 2011 Navy SEAL raid on Osama bin Laden’s alleged hideout in Abbotabad, Pakistan from the Pentagon’s data banks.
The files of the bin Laden SEAL operation had to be removed to sustain the Big Lie. Osama was allegedly killed on the orders of the US government, despite ample evidence that he was already dead at the time of the attack:
… the US government pulled off one of the most audacious stunts of the 21st century, when on May 2nd 2011 they claimed to have killed Osama bin Laden during a Navy SEAL operation in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The contemptuously sloppy story spun by the US government, parroted without question by the controlled corporate media, and obligingly swallowed by a largely gullible Western public, was dubious in the extreme. (Brit Dee, Global Research, (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d499mnklHUTvpNvr91QfVDEyljndC XxMC3sJunmGkXkyfXZ5p2e5OiQtg-96DJlzzHp5xxyGTrI06LT5AxhRo88uwI1Pl2GMQLIwUBR3qCHO 9PB4vRA0H7B-Qo8M-_CmGjJ_9JOd_Yw4rvE5AnNwHwW4_7Z44TO2DKco5ZKjzpn9Qvd 0v1ALnbHQi0uJPfduNW2ESqEX4lg8w==) May 03, 2012)

Who was killed? Was it Osama bin Laden or someone else?
“Rest in Peace”, “‘Truth” will prevail. The files are no longer at the Pentagon, they have been sent to the CIA, in violation of the Freedom of Information Act. The White House tacitly acknowledges that the procedure of moving government records was in violation of federal norms:
A draft report by the Pentagon’s inspector-general briefly described the secret move, which was directed by the top US special operations commander, Admiral William McRaven.
The transfer did not set off alarms within the Obama administration even though it appears to have sidestepped rules governing federal records and circumvented the Freedom of Information Act.
President Barack Obama has pledged to make his administration the most transparent in US history.
The CIA said the documents were handled in a manner consistent with the fact that the operation was conducted under the CIA’s direction. (Belfast Telegraph, July 8, 2013)

The Pentagon spokesperson denied the fact that the removal of these files was to avoid the legal requirements of the Freedom of Information Act.
But secretly moving the records allowed the Pentagon to tell The Associated Press that it couldn’t find any documents inside the Defense Department that AP had requested more than two years ago, and could represent a new strategy for the U.S. government to shield even its most sensitive activities from public scrutiny. New York Daily News

According to the official statement, the record transfer from the Pentagon to the CIA has nothing to do with Freedom of Information. Its objective was “to protect the names of the personnel involved in the raid, according to the inspector general’s draft report.”
Protect whom? Several members of the SEAL raid are now dead, allegedly “due to combat and training accidents”. The list of names in the Osama death files is known to US intelligence but not to the broader public, nor to family members:
[INDENT]According to the New York Times (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d6XTqrlljiqtams2_WbZuGN-zbOrKyG7UQCAbrr1fWpBFjdF_3GKoqzKoMQl1y6seU7CiGc1Sr XlXSXVkkECtkFZJusXPjJB7xDpOXlQeO0mWGpO4gY_K3GBjDbO XVdJDsRejv0qVw_gevOvsdptg87AORCpaI124GtSdgs-WUNBYiEyjDfHIghw70oI7VQXF8=), “79 commandos and a dog” were involved in the raid that killed Osama bin Laden — though other reports (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d4svtdWN-Z1VGxXs_nPqzmn8qV_PGPxBid1kP-ta80zivwmrZx7CMQ6q9EHSo0cUgFasEGmR38S9r55GujIorBU_ PhBmE0qZfa7bon58Oher2Bix4RwBsXThbOiZ1V3KfJ0ZhwBIMl UVj31kWtY7oRyAmg0JQq18nBHYvrL5rzeQqATeTXBrdOlqMCTV JhhMKU=) peg the number at approximately 24. Since the raid, SEAL Team Six — the team that conducted the Bin Laden raid — has lost several members due to combat and training accidents, though none of them have been confirmed as being specifically part of the Bin Laden raid.
The largest loss to the team took place in April of 2011 when Taliban fighters shot down a U.S. helicopter (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d7CH2kZ35Av_DVFIJCuJKlQCDBDQd rZSuEOx2ucbWWrlUQ3DBrpAO9NKW8_BGjfk78H4RPxE2882QrN qo_bh92gsWkoXGDKZJ4HqWIchqnvGLlJmTiVD4jf6OtjTrsu6D gPoonMerEa6kF5JA5mk-eb) and killed 22 members of SEAL Team Six, along with 16 other U.S. troops. None of those SEALs, however, were reported to have worked on the Bin Laden raid. Separately, the BeforeItsNews piece references Cmdr. Job W. Price, who committed suicide in December of 2012, as being another person connected to the Bin Laden raid who has died. This accusation doesn’t hold up because Price was reportedly part of SEAL Team Four (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d6OhdyVLdGgWjnCJ8dT3Ryu4jF7Dt ZG5VzPs34Y5AFRkfS0N_woq8qX6j_z9wUTcdSnyagjuyNbSzuU ZP4aijKdnh8JQB_TvkWJms_f_WzKgp4-PIVapGP6-QEpYuYdVUhyQ0BOt0KjBdf9kH61viYm), not Six, and was not part of the Bin Laden raid.
The most recent death tied to SEAL Team Six took place on March 28, when Special Warfare Operator Chief Brett D. Shadle was killed (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d4useJpN-WQAcemoC2Fj49riBA7bmUuGqanFeqlTgRfEzKkPZsu1muHcFks 2P2Wtxm0dkiE3AkjFdgV8HhEb0L5UjjvhWPnG-nUYaw1oNmeP3uORUJ2MDfORco70YnANjGmK8qGoaxQZBMSdP94 sPY5OLCHVke5sDOFpS_lWui_758sKH9tcbSvRP3pJvYwzQfjID p3UBxb3jUxuM567q2n) in a parachute training accident when he collided in midair with another SEAL over the Arizona desert. He was later identified as being a part of Team Six, though it’s unclear if he was actually assigned to the Bin Laden mission.
The problem with completely confirming or disproving the accusation that so many SEAL Team Six members have died is that the U.S. military typically does not disclose which units special forces members work on, even after their deaths. In interviews with MSN News, spokespeople at the U.S. Navy, Pentagon and Special Operations Command (SOCOM) each refused to comment on the BeforeItsNews article or the claim that 25 members of the Bin Laden raid team have died. (MSN News, (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d5CZ6XjG-KZP_H_WjHAqGWlvIM7OIEvHVcoU0przkT7IXBu6q19S0LR7Fql 2qi1MpCkXGQNpINbb3cMJZF-oghIzatW8Bd7RsIZ03MUFvCjKRe-aa8hbdMsDSa84dI5a5OZQBotyoxYNdr8l2kStO4GjbXz3ROdlG sxA3c_BuAfYZeUoherl5jx8sMmryttnWo=) April 9, 2013)
The members of SEAL Team Six know the untold truth. And they are forbidden to reveal it.
“Many credible commentators, including respected intelligence analysts and heads of state (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d70O6ipGR6hXVrJlrLbMzP8iZO6NN Pmcl614C6D82TbMfhKzXedJ-etGVxhrdWCybnakd6SHY2xM8V3y5u1d2wkLFmCBUW2UHia4TE0 rI-gMg9xVaEvgvBBrkEDrSe5yy4CBAtLdzMEnBIncP_0xf-ToMjH2_NtNGB1FbG_myCZ97emRlzBV6YJGo47YDGN5BndCdMEb ub37b6i3OWswo4t), had claimed years before 2011 that bin Laden was dead.” (Brit Dee, op cit)
Several members of SEAL Team Six which carried out the attack are now dead.
The Osama Legend is now classified, buried in the Osama Death files stored in the archives of the CIA.
Only the CIA knows the names of the surviving members of the SEAL team involved in the May 2011 Osama Abbotabad raid.

Dawn Meredith
07-10-2013, 12:56 PM
And of course any surviving memebers, if they are still alive, are not talking out of fear.
Kill a stranger, say it's bin laden, then kill the Seals. Destroy the evidence.
Sounds about right.
And the MSM is silent.
Americans will believe it no matter how outrageous.
The fake boogy man was dead long ago.

Dawn

Magda Hassan
08-31-2013, 01:58 AM
Osama Bin Laden Photo Flap Heading to Supreme Court



By David Kravets (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/author/davidkravets/)
08.19.13
2:46 PM


Osama bin Laden films an undated propaganda video after dyeing his beard. Photo: CIA

The dispute of whether the Central Intelligence Agency must release as many as 52 images of a dead Osama bin Laden is heading to the Supreme Court.
The agency maintains that the pictures are classified, and that releasing them “could trigger violence, attacks, or acts of revenge against the United States (http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/01/osamapicsfoia.pdf).” (.pdf) A lower court and a federal appeals court sided with the President Barack Obama administration.
The legal tussle dates to 2011, when Judicial Watch lodged a Freedom of Information Act claim with the government shortly after the president announced the United States had killed the alleged mastermind of the 2001 terror attacks. In response to the FOIA, the CIA said the images were classified, and refused to turn them over.
Judicial Watch sued, and a federal judge and appeals court sided with the agency’s classification assertions.
The courts are giving too much deference to the government’s claims of classification (http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/petition-for-writ-of-certiorari-judicial-watch-v-dod-and-cia/), Judicial Watch tells the Supreme Court in a filing.
“By ignoring the explicit intentions of Congress and providing almost blind deference to the CIA to withhold material that may not have been properly classified nor specifically authorized to be classified, the D.C. Circuit has once again reverted back to meaningless review by the courts, causing the FOIA to become more of a withholding statute than a disclosure statute,” the group maintains in its petition today for the Supreme Court to review the lower court decisions.
The CIA said it possesses images taken inside the compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, where bin Laden was killed; images taken as bin Laden’s body was transported from the Abbottabad compound to the location where he was buried at sea; images depicting the preparation of bin Laden’s body for the burial; images of the burial itself; and images taken for purposes of conducting facial recognition analysis of the body in order to confirm that it was bin Laden.
The government said that disclosing the photos, including one showing the bullet wound to bin Laden’s head, “plausibly and logically pose a particularly grave threat of inflaming anti-American sentiment and resulting in retaliatory harm.”
Judicial Watch claims the government’s position is “speculative (http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/01/judicialwatchosamaresponse.pdf).” (.pdf) The government, however, countered that it does not have to prove “that release of the images will lead to attacks or otherwise harm national security, just that they ‘reasonably could be expected to.’”
The government has made similar national-security arguments in a FOIA case brought by the American Civil Liberties Union, which sought photos allegedly depicting CIA acts of torture on overseas detainees. In response to a judge ordering disclosure, Congress adopted legislation in 2009 prohibiting the release of the images (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/government-attempts-tortu_n_313755.html) and other torture-related documents.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/08/bin-laden-death-pics/

Peter Lemkin
08-31-2013, 04:21 AM
Pentagon Orders Purge of Osama Bin Laden’s Death Files from Data Bank

By Prof Michel Chossudovsky (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d7YEYtr6bZ1EKTxY7jyPbhYgGztJE W8ORUU6NpGDSCs4AYGUSQ1kPNjWPpTHBxMwgmu96_l6f9dOz77 IAZuPCPEeWlN2KYO8yyKPUw1DuINOSQgOsF3uLZXRNzfJx1zmU C-54jACZavkFj1jt3EMaQ0)
Global Research, July 09, 2013
Url of this article:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/pentagon-orders-purge-of-osama-bin-ladens-death-files-from-data-bank/5342055 (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d6hoSSiKUYCAoHb-6ToPwmI-C3hWcVlqSD4iOU-iVYCGJJW_X2OzVlA-NNOAocIWEFx7_EGJzGlVAbPuTz1DrMi70csq_C3cKJnq-G0uhgbMXIChNF3jAi3mAzGvrSD33hMAxLBwOnMWVnYHySghqBA Mgn8F_2H2BoFckz3R0wzze0NGLEsnBebcrPTjJhHAbvE8u4OwG r23Cz1LFFNxoaVg32LDSjGHaw=)


A new wave of camouflage is underway at the Pentagon and the CIA. The bin Laden “death files” contained in the Pentagon’s data bank have become the object of controversy.
Navy Vice Admiral William McRaven has been entrusted in removing these secret military files concerning the May 2011 Navy SEAL raid on Osama bin Laden’s alleged hideout in Abbotabad, Pakistan from the Pentagon’s data banks.
The files of the bin Laden SEAL operation had to be removed to sustain the Big Lie. Osama was allegedly killed on the orders of the US government, despite ample evidence that he was already dead at the time of the attack:
… the US government pulled off one of the most audacious stunts of the 21st century, when on May 2nd 2011 they claimed to have killed Osama bin Laden during a Navy SEAL operation in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The contemptuously sloppy story spun by the US government, parroted without question by the controlled corporate media, and obligingly swallowed by a largely gullible Western public, was dubious in the extreme. (Brit Dee, Global Research, (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d499mnklHUTvpNvr91QfVDEyljndC XxMC3sJunmGkXkyfXZ5p2e5OiQtg-96DJlzzHp5xxyGTrI06LT5AxhRo88uwI1Pl2GMQLIwUBR3qCHO 9PB4vRA0H7B-Qo8M-_CmGjJ_9JOd_Yw4rvE5AnNwHwW4_7Z44TO2DKco5ZKjzpn9Qvd 0v1ALnbHQi0uJPfduNW2ESqEX4lg8w==) May 03, 2012)

Who was killed? Was it Osama bin Laden or someone else?
“Rest in Peace”, “‘Truth” will prevail. The files are no longer at the Pentagon, they have been sent to the CIA, in violation of the Freedom of Information Act. The White House tacitly acknowledges that the procedure of moving government records was in violation of federal norms:
A draft report by the Pentagon’s inspector-general briefly described the secret move, which was directed by the top US special operations commander, Admiral William McRaven.
The transfer did not set off alarms within the Obama administration even though it appears to have sidestepped rules governing federal records and circumvented the Freedom of Information Act.
President Barack Obama has pledged to make his administration the most transparent in US history.
The CIA said the documents were handled in a manner consistent with the fact that the operation was conducted under the CIA’s direction. (Belfast Telegraph, July 8, 2013)

The Pentagon spokesperson denied the fact that the removal of these files was to avoid the legal requirements of the Freedom of Information Act.
But secretly moving the records allowed the Pentagon to tell The Associated Press that it couldn’t find any documents inside the Defense Department that AP had requested more than two years ago, and could represent a new strategy for the U.S. government to shield even its most sensitive activities from public scrutiny. New York Daily News

According to the official statement, the record transfer from the Pentagon to the CIA has nothing to do with Freedom of Information. Its objective was “to protect the names of the personnel involved in the raid, according to the inspector general’s draft report.”
Protect whom? Several members of the SEAL raid are now dead, allegedly “due to combat and training accidents”. The list of names in the Osama death files is known to US intelligence but not to the broader public, nor to family members:[INDENT]According to the New York Times (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d6XTqrlljiqtams2_WbZuGN-zbOrKyG7UQCAbrr1fWpBFjdF_3GKoqzKoMQl1y6seU7CiGc1Sr XlXSXVkkECtkFZJusXPjJB7xDpOXlQeO0mWGpO4gY_K3GBjDbO XVdJDsRejv0qVw_gevOvsdptg87AORCpaI124GtSdgs-WUNBYiEyjDfHIghw70oI7VQXF8=), “79 commandos and a dog” were involved in the raid that killed Osama bin Laden — though other reports (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d4svtdWN-Z1VGxXs_nPqzmn8qV_PGPxBid1kP-ta80zivwmrZx7CMQ6q9EHSo0cUgFasEGmR38S9r55GujIorBU_ PhBmE0qZfa7bon58Oher2Bix4RwBsXThbOiZ1V3KfJ0ZhwBIMl UVj31kWtY7oRyAmg0JQq18nBHYvrL5rzeQqATeTXBrdOlqMCTV JhhMKU=) peg the number at approximately 24. Since the raid, SEAL Team Six — the team that conducted the Bin Laden raid — has lost several members due to combat and training accidents, though none of them have been confirmed as being specifically part of the Bin Laden raid.
The largest loss to the team took place in April of 2011 when Taliban fighters shot down a U.S. helicopter (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d7CH2kZ35Av_DVFIJCuJKlQCDBDQd rZSuEOx2ucbWWrlUQ3DBrpAO9NKW8_BGjfk78H4RPxE2882QrN qo_bh92gsWkoXGDKZJ4HqWIchqnvGLlJmTiVD4jf6OtjTrsu6D gPoonMerEa6kF5JA5mk-eb) and killed 22 members of SEAL Team Six, along with 16 other U.S. troops. None of those SEALs, however, were reported to have worked on the Bin Laden raid. Separately, the BeforeItsNews piece references Cmdr. Job W. Price, who committed suicide in December of 2012, as being another person connected to the Bin Laden raid who has died. This accusation doesn’t hold up because Price was reportedly part of SEAL Team Four (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d6OhdyVLdGgWjnCJ8dT3Ryu4jF7Dt ZG5VzPs34Y5AFRkfS0N_woq8qX6j_z9wUTcdSnyagjuyNbSzuU ZP4aijKdnh8JQB_TvkWJms_f_WzKgp4-PIVapGP6-QEpYuYdVUhyQ0BOt0KjBdf9kH61viYm), not Six, and was not part of the Bin Laden raid.
The most recent death tied to SEAL Team Six took place on March 28, when Special Warfare Operator Chief Brett D. Shadle was killed (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d4useJpN-WQAcemoC2Fj49riBA7bmUuGqanFeqlTgRfEzKkPZsu1muHcFks 2P2Wtxm0dkiE3AkjFdgV8HhEb0L5UjjvhWPnG-nUYaw1oNmeP3uORUJ2MDfORco70YnANjGmK8qGoaxQZBMSdP94 sPY5OLCHVke5sDOFpS_lWui_758sKH9tcbSvRP3pJvYwzQfjID p3UBxb3jUxuM567q2n) in a parachute training accident when he collided in midair with another SEAL over the Arizona desert. He was later identified as being a part of Team Six, though it’s unclear if he was actually assigned to the Bin Laden mission.
The problem with completely confirming or disproving the accusation that so many SEAL Team Six members have died is that the U.S. military typically does not disclose which units special forces members work on, even after their deaths. In interviews with MSN News, spokespeople at the U.S. Navy, Pentagon and Special Operations Command (SOCOM) each refused to comment on the BeforeItsNews article or the claim that 25 members of the Bin Laden raid team have died. (MSN News, (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d5CZ6XjG-KZP_H_WjHAqGWlvIM7OIEvHVcoU0przkT7IXBu6q19S0LR7Fql 2qi1MpCkXGQNpINbb3cMJZF-oghIzatW8Bd7RsIZ03MUFvCjKRe-aa8hbdMsDSa84dI5a5OZQBotyoxYNdr8l2kStO4GjbXz3ROdlG sxA3c_BuAfYZeUoherl5jx8sMmryttnWo=) April 9, 2013)

The members of SEAL Team Six know the untold truth. And they are forbidden to reveal it.
“Many credible commentators, including respected intelligence analysts and heads of state (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d70O6ipGR6hXVrJlrLbMzP8iZO6NN Pmcl614C6D82TbMfhKzXedJ-etGVxhrdWCybnakd6SHY2xM8V3y5u1d2wkLFmCBUW2UHia4TE0 rI-gMg9xVaEvgvBBrkEDrSe5yy4CBAtLdzMEnBIncP_0xf-ToMjH2_NtNGB1FbG_myCZ97emRlzBV6YJGo47YDGN5BndCdMEb ub37b6i3OWswo4t), had claimed years before 2011 that bin Laden was dead.” (Brit Dee, op cit)
Several members of SEAL Team Six which carried out the attack are now dead.
The Osama Legend is now classified, buried in the Osama Death files stored in the archives of the CIA.
Only the CIA knows the names of the surviving members of the SEAL team involved in the May 2011 Osama Abbotabad raid.

Well, well, well. The somewhat rare statistical 'events' that would cause so many deaths in the SEAL Six Team [which I'm sure is classified, but I'd guess a few hundred] is sinister - but par for the course; the order to 'purge' all files related to the bin Laden 'affair' is really icing on a very strange cake. I'm sure there have been lots of previous 'purge' orders on other 'ops' when the public gets nosy and/or doubtful of the official explanation.....in part or in full....for instance parts related to the JFK 'matter' in Dallas, the Oswald 'affairs', and on and on and on......Our History is made up of a web of lies, with many of the facts 'purged' for 'national security'...or was that 'CYA'???!

John Mooney
09-07-2013, 06:44 AM
They have the evidence that they killed Bin Laden.

So they say.

Can we see it?

Of course not.

It's secret.

A familiar theme, played out again last week.

Peter Lemkin
09-07-2013, 07:18 AM
The have the evidence that they killed Bin Laden.

So they say.

Can we see it?

Of course not.

It's secret.

A familiar theme, played out again last week.

Trust them, they've never misled us before.....:loco:

David Guyatt
09-07-2013, 09:48 AM
The largest loss to the team took place in April of 2011 when Taliban fighters shot down a U.S. helicopter (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001IoMkKMBb7d7CH2kZ35Av_DVFIJCuJKlQCDBDQd rZSuEOx2ucbWWrlUQ3DBrpAO9NKW8_BGjfk78H4RPxE2882QrN qo_bh92gsWkoXGDKZJ4HqWIchqnvGLlJmTiVD4jf6OtjTrsu6D gPoonMerEa6kF5JA5mk-eb) and killed 22 members of SEAL Team Six, along with 16 other U.S. troops. None of those SEALs, however, were reported to have worked on the Bin Laden raid.


Contrast the foregoing with this:


The helicopter was carrying 25 of Britain's most senior intelligence experts from Northern Ireland to a conference in Inverness.All 29 people on board, including the four special forces crew, died when the Chinook crashed on the Mull of Kintyre, on the west coast of Scotland.

See: 1994 Chinook "crash" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14130867) for fuller story. At the time this "crash" was widely viewed as being convenient with the death of 25 intelligence community types and was thought to be a "clean up" operation of the Irish problem.

Peter Lemkin
10-18-2013, 05:35 AM
Hersh Says bin Laden Kill Story "One Big Lie" By Sherwood Ross (http://www.opednews.com/author/author4140.html)


10/17/13




http://www.opednews.com/populum/uploaded/sher-4140-20080324-2.jpg
(http://www.opednews.com/author/author4140.html)









If Seymour Hersh says the tale of the death of Osama bin Laden at the hands of US Navy SEALS is "one big lie" and "not one word of it is true," President Obama will be hard pressed to keep his job when Hersh's new book comes out. Over a lifetime, investigative reporter Hersh has become famous for his accuracy, honesty, reliability and integrity and if he says the bin Laden tale is a fake, you can take it to the bank.



Hersh told "The Guardian," Britain's investigative daily, "Nothing's been done about that story." A Pakistani report on the killing of bin Laden, Hersh says, was published with considerable U.S. input and is "a bullshit report." bin Laden allegedly was killed by a SEAL team in Abbottabad, Pakistan, May 1, 2011.


Hersh is writing a book about national security, "The Guardian" says, and he's hinted it will include a chapter on the Seals raid in Pakistan that allegedly bumped off bin Laden.


President Obama's administration lies systematically, Hersh asserts, yet is never challenged by America's supine media. "It's pathetic, they are more than obsequious, they are afraid to pick on this guy (Obama)," Hersh said.


Hersh claims President Obama is worse than Bush, "Guardian" writer Lisa O'Carroll, who interviewed Hersh, reports."Do you think Obama's been judged by any rational standards?" Hersh asks."Has Guantanamo closed? Is a war over? Is anyone paying attention to Iraq? Is he seriously talking about going into Syria?"How does Obama get away with the drone program?" How does he justify it? What's the intelligence?"Why don't we find out how good or bad this policy is?"


Hersh concludes, "The republic's in trouble, we lie about everything, lying has become the staple."


In his bid for re-election in 2012, the Obama campaign milked the bin Laden slaying for all it was worth, making a video narrated by actor Tom Hanks about it. The "Huffington Post's" Ben Feller at the time wrote an article headlined, "Obama Campaign Using Osama Bin Laden Killing As 2012 Campaign Tool."


Obama earlier had trumpeted the killing as "the most significant achievement in our fight against Al Quida."


And Hersh says today the "gotcha" story is all "One Big Lie." Sounds like an investigation, perhaps even a prosecution, may be in order.

David Guyatt
10-18-2013, 08:04 AM
I'm looking forward to his book when it comes out. Not just the bin-laden chapter, although that too.

Magda Hassan
10-18-2013, 11:28 PM
Pakistan TV Exposes bin Laden Killing Hoax

By Paul Craig Roberts

October 18, 2013 "Information Clearing House (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/) - Original Bashir interview that contradicts Washington’s account of killing bin Laden

A website in the UK, themindrenewed.com, that downloaded the video from the link in my original report of the Pakistani TV interview with Mohammad Bashir has posted the interview with the original English subtitles. You can view it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xffT-8R38lQ

This interview of an eyewitness to the entire event is powerful evidence that the Obama regime’s story of the killing of Osama bin Laden and his burial at sea is a hoax and a lie. Pakistani Samaa TV confirms that Bashir is who he says he is and that he lives next to the alleged bin Laden compound. Samaa TV also confirms that neighbors knew the residents of the “compound.” There has never been any mention of the Bashir interview in the presstitute media.

http://themindrenewed.com/interviews/2013/334-int-32


Published on Oct 16, 2013
Mohammad Bashir, Abbottabad resident and neighbour to the alleged “compound” of Osama bin Laden, gives his eyewitness account of what he saw happen on 2 May 2011 (local time), when – according to the official story – US Navy SEALs assassinated Osama bin Laden. In this interview, soon after the event, with a Pakistan national TV station (Samaa.tv), Bashir gives an account which fundamentally contradicts the official story.

Transcript of the interview here (http://paulcraigroberts.org/2013/09/16/pakistani-national-tv-reveals-that-obamas-claim-to-have-killed-osama-bin-laden-is-an-american-hoax-paul-craig-roberts)

Albert Doyle
11-08-2014, 03:09 PM
CNN just had the Seals who allegedly shot Bin Laden describing the mission.


What CNN did was let the Seals highlight the reasons why they shot Bin Laden in their own words. It was a nice propaganda piece where they spoke of killing Bin Laden for the people who were in the towers. They personalized it with specific names as well as telling what the victims and their family members did that day. One Seal said he did it for the woman who straightened out her skirt before jumping to escape burning to death.


So what CNN is brainwashing the public with is a normalization of what is basically the SS Nazi Special Forces who (allegedly) executed an unarmed man and are now on CNN unopposed bragging about it. If you look at the situation we now have a CNN government where Seal murderers short circuit American democracy and come on to explain their murders at their own will using their own logic. There was no opposition on the CNN show, just the Smerconish host and the Seal. So we now have a new form of government where the people and their right to hear Osama Bin Laden and his side under the sacred Constitutional right to trial are bypassed by these cowardly murdering Navy Seals who murder unarmed men and brag about it unopposed. Nope, you won't see that Seal coward talk about the Constitutional issues over what he did. Nope, he's too busy sunning himself in the glow of American fascism and its power. Meanwhile there was no mention that it would have been just as easy to handcuff Bin Laden and take him back with them as murder him. Shining SS Glory!

Peter Presland
11-08-2014, 03:57 PM
CNN just had the Seals who allegedly shot Bin Laden describing the mission.


What CNN did was let the Seals highlight the reasons why they shot Bin Laden in their own words. It was a nice propaganda piece where they spoke of killing Bin Laden for the people who were in the towers. They personalized it with specific names as well as telling what the victims and their family members did that day. One Seal said he did it for the woman who straightened out her skirt before jumping to escape burning to death.


So what CNN is brainwashing the public with is a normalization of what is basically the SS Nazi Special Forces who (allegedly) executed an unarmed man and are now on CNN unopposed bragging about it. If you look at the situation we now have a CNN government where Seal murderers short circuit American democracy and come on to explain their murders at their own will using their own logic. There was no opposition on the CNN show, just the Smerconish host and the Seal. So we now have a new form of government where the people and their right to hear Osama Bin Laden and his side under the sacred Constitutional right to trial are bypassed by these cowardly murdering Navy Seals who murder unarmed men and brag about it unopposed. Nope, you won't see that Seal coward talk about the Constitutional issues over what he did. Nope, he's too busy sunning himself in the glow of American fascism and its power. Meanwhile there was no mention that it would have been just as easy to handcuff Bin Laden and take him back with them as murder him. Shining SS Glory!

Nicely put Albert.

I would add to your final sentence "If indeed it was bin Laden they allegedly killed"

It was clearly intended as the heroic denoument of the wicked evil bin Laden story in exactly the manner you describe. Those who understand something of the sordid realities of that story see it for what it is - utterly crass propaganda at the expense of an insufferable, used-up psychopath, intoxicated by the military drug of prospective glory and blind to his own evil and the real purposes of his masters.

Malcolm Pryce
11-08-2014, 05:12 PM
Personally I don't believe for one second it was bin Laden. They showed us all his furniture and computer, but where was the dialysis machine?

David Guyatt
11-09-2014, 07:40 AM
I agree. There would be no need for a dialysis machine if he died back in December 2001, which is what I think happened, and what was reported as having happened by French intelligence and French media at the time.

Malcolm Pryce
11-09-2014, 08:13 AM
The US Government has not produced any hard evidence to corroborate this story. No DNA, no photos and the highly implausible—verging on ludicrous—burial at sea aboard the USS Carl Vinson. According to freedom of information requests not one of the 3,200 ship’s complement spotted this. You’d think that would indicate a massive security lapse, don’t they have people on watch? Oh yes, and the helmet-mounted cameras of the Navy Seals—just like CCTV when the shadowy cabal act—blacked out for 25 minutes during the raid. The only evidence for this raid is a narrative, and even that was repeatedly revised. To put the reliability of US claims about OBL in perspective, just Google for pictures of Osama’s amazing Tora Bora mountain hideout that were circulated in 2001. Designed by Blofeld, it apparently consisted of an impregnable fortress housing 2,000 men complete with a hospital, a hydroelectric power plant, offices, a hotel, arms and ammunition stores, roads large enough to drive a tank into, and sophisticated tunnel, and ventilation systems. Funny they never found it. Especially as, according to that great truth-teller Donald Rumsfeld, there wasn’t just one, there were many of them up there. It really makes one hold one’s head in despair that people take any of this seriously. But then if you read the Daily Mail story about the burial at sea and the fact that no sailors saw it, nine out of the first ten comments displayed are openly derisive of the US account. So maybe the people aren’t quite as stupid after all.

Magda Hassan
11-09-2014, 08:39 AM
Not to mention he was never on the FBI's Most Wanted list because they had no evidence he was behind 911.

Tracy Riddle
05-11-2015, 02:15 PM
Seymour Hersh attacks official story, MSM comes to the rescue.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden
http://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

David Guyatt
05-11-2015, 05:16 PM
Seymour Hersh attacks official story, MSM comes to the rescue.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden
http://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

What a nasty prick Max Fisher (I assume he is the author of this piece?) is in his hatchet job on Seymour Hersh. It's the usual conspiracy theorist defence that players like him liberally use to cast doubt on an important story. I wonder who motivated him to write the story?

Albert Doyle
05-12-2015, 03:04 AM
Let me see, Brian Williams has to crawl on his knees while these guys are allowed to construct completely false scenarios and lies that are then told to the public with zero accountability?

Albert Doyle
05-13-2015, 12:21 PM
I guess it makes sense that a war that was based on lies should be finished with more lies.



The media that attacked Hersh is treating the public like children and ignoring the greater political compromise in which these deals are made. The US media ignores that Pakistan had political factions it had to placate in its imprisonment of Bin Laden. Just like in America where similar compromise is used for bargaining leverage by power-abusing factions. To get away with this it is important to keep a phony image of government and media sincerity and credibility going.

Tracy Riddle
05-13-2015, 03:53 PM
Pakistan is an overcrowded country full of Islamic fundamentalists. The Pakistani military-industrial complex is mostly allied with the US (and covert relationships with Saudi Arabia and Israel as well), and they worry about preserving their power and internal security, like the Shah of Iran did.

Pakistan could never admit to its people that they allowed the US to kill Bin Laden, even if he was a powerless, invalid old man under protective custody (probably since 2000-2001). And the US would never fly its helicopters into Pakistani military airspace without permission, because there would be too much chance of them being shot down by accident.

R.K. Locke
05-13-2015, 06:23 PM
Didn't Bin Laden die in 2001?

http://sjlendman.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/obama-did-not-kill-bin-laden.html

Albert Doyle
05-13-2015, 06:32 PM
The US media responded to this by having government and media spokespersons come on and say there was no evidence and that it had all been discredited.

Danny Jarman
05-13-2015, 07:24 PM
Pakistan is an overcrowded country full of Islamic fundamentalists.

Oh dear.

I don't expect to see such ridiculous statements on a forum such as this one.

Pakistani people are just as fed up of their ruling class as Americans are.

Tracy Riddle
05-13-2015, 11:54 PM
Pakistan is an overcrowded country full of Islamic fundamentalists.

Oh dear.

I don't expect to see such ridiculous statements on a forum such as this one.

Pakistani people are just as fed up of their ruling class as Americans are.

Did you even read the rest of my comment? Doesn't look like it. I said that the Pakistani government is not popular with its people (I compared the regime to the Shah of Iran), very concerned with internal security. Do you know what that term means? It means they are afraid of their own population, like the Shah was.

And yes, there are a lot of very conservative Muslims in Pakistan, and a lot of sympathy for the Taliban, especially in the northern part of the country.

David Guyatt
05-14-2015, 06:54 AM
It seems evident that Hersh is coming under intense pressure in the US for this story. I find that sad, but also a continuation of the shoot the messenger attitude to journalism these days, as the state works ever harder to ensure their spin is what people see and hear, and anything else is dumped down the drain.

From The Slate (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/05/seymour_hersh_interview_on_his_bin_laden_story_the _new_yorker_journalism.html):



“I Am Not Backing Off Anything I Said”
(http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/05/seymour_hersh_interview_on_his_bin_laden_story_the _new_yorker_journalism.html#) (http://twitter.com/search?q=http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/05/seymour_hersh_interview_on_his_bin_laden_story_the _new_yorker_journalism.html)

125 (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/05/seymour_hersh_interview_on_his_bin_laden_story_the _new_yorker_journalism.html#comments)
An interview with Seymour Hersh.By Isaac Chotiner (http://www.slate.com/authors.isaac_chotiner.html)





http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/05/150513_SyHershFoul.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.jpgPulitzer Prize–winning journalist Seymour Hersh accepts the Lennon-Ono Grant for Peace at the Second Biennial Awards at the United Nations on Oct. 7, 2004, in New York.
Photo illustration by Slate. Photo by Brad Barket/Getty Images

In a blockbuster 10,000-word story for the London Review of Books (http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden)this week, longtime New Yorker investigative journalist Seymour Hersh called into question the official account of the American raid that killed Osama Bin Laden, and argued that what is arguably seen as the apex of Barack Obama’s presidency is actually built on a lie.

Hersh’s piece claims that Bin Laden was being held prisoner by the Pakistani military and intelligence service (the ISI), who were using him as a means to control Taliban and al-Qaida elements, and hoping to use him as leverage in their relationship with the United States. According to Hersh, who relied largely on an anonymous intelligence source, the Obama administration found out that Pakistan had Bin Laden, and eventually convinced Pakistani military leaders to allow a raid on the compound where Bin Laden was being held. The plan, Hersh writes, was to say publicly that Bin Laden was killed not in the raid but in a drone strike. The White House, however, supposedly broke this deal because of the political value of making the details of the raid public.

Hersh’s story has been much debated over the past several days, with many calling it into question and (a comparable few) others applauding its willingness to undercut the official narrative. NBC News and the AFP have both backed up small elements of Hersh’s story, although both outlets have also called other elements of his piece into question (and NBC later backed away (http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/13/nbc_walk_in_retraction_seymour_hersh_detail_about_ location_of_bin_laden.html) from its original reporting). And no news source has supported Hersh’s largest claim—that the president lied about the raid.

I spoke to Hersh by phone this week. Here is a transcript of our conversation, which has been slightly condensed and edited for clarity.

Isaac Chotiner: If the plan until the night of the raid was to use the cover story that he had not been killed in a raid but in a drone strike, then why have the raid at all? Why not just have the Pakistanis kill him? Why risk Obama’s presidency?

Seymour Hersh: Of course there is no answer there because I haven’t talked to any of the principals. But I can just give you what the people who were in the process believed to be so, which is that for [Gens.] Pasha and Kayani, the chance of something like that getting leaked out would be devastating. America was then running at about 8 percent popularity in Pakistan, and Bin Laden was running at 60, 70 percent. He was very popular. [Editor’s note: This 2010 opinion poll (http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-largely-discredited-among-muslim-publics-in-recent-years/http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-largely-discredited-among-muslim-publics-in-recent-years/) says that Bin Laden’s popularity was at 18 percent in Pakistan.] You couldn’t just take a chance, because if someone ratted you out—I can only give you a basic theory.

Chotiner: It just seems like a huge raid with Pakistani complicity brings up just as many problems for the Pakistanis.

“You think I have a cavalier attitude on throwing stuff out? Are you kidding? I am not cavalier about what I do for a living.”
Seymour Hersh
Hersh: If you believe, as a smart guy said to me, if anybody, if anyone didn’t think the president was going to fuck [the Pakistani military] they are out of their mind. He was always going to fuck them.

Chotiner: OK. In your piece you call into question that the Americans got valuable documents in the raid. But Ayman al-Zawahiri, the current head of al-Qaida, himself seemed to confirm that this was true. How do you handle that contradiction?

Hersh: I handle it pretty easy. [Laughs] The issue for me is the treasure trove issue. Did the SEALS take out piles of computers? There were claims they found computers and disks and sticks, what do they call those sticks?

Chotiner: I don’t know.

Hersh: You’re not as old as I am. You should know that. Anyway, the SEALs mission was to go kill the guy. They did pick up some papers, but most of the papers were delivered by the ISI. He was a prisoner under their control. He wasn’t beaten and could walk around but it was a prison. He couldn’t get out. They kept encouraging him to write stuff. And he did. But I am bothered by the contradictions. [The] president said it was a treasure trove so there had to be a treasure trove. Is it real? I don’t know. It was used in a trial. Is it real? Is it not? I don’t know.

Chotiner: You seem slightly annoyed that Obama double-crossed the Pakistanis.

Hersh: Double-crossed is your word.

Chotiner: OK fine. I want to understand why you seem bothered by that, aside from the lying. Turning our back on the worst elements in Pakistan who we have long nurtured doesn’t seem so bad. We have supported them forever.

Hersh: Why do we do that?

Chotiner: Because we see it as being in our own interest.

Hersh: Well no, we do it for nukes.

Chotiner: Fine, we see that as being in our interest.

Hersh: In my experience in the last 30 years, one of the major worries was about the “Islamic bomb,” about Pakistan. If you knew the lengths to which we go, working with the ISI, to make sure some ultranationalist or ultrajihadist doesn’t get [control of nukes].

Chotiner: Yes, although you could argue that if we hadn’t nurtured these elements for so long, the country would be less of a threat.

Hersh: You could argue anything.

Chotiner: I want to—

Hersh: Swing away fella.

Chotiner: You sent me—

Hersh: You probably don’t know that NBC reported, and now they have reported it on one of these dopey afternoon shows with that woman, what’s her name, the NBC woman who claims to have some knowledge of foreign policy, married to Alan Greenspan.

Chotiner: Andrea Mitchell.

Hersh: She’s comical. On her show the administration is acknowledging walk-ins but saying the walk-ins aren’t necessarily linked to Bin Laden.

Chotiner: The AFP piece (http://www.dawn.com/news/1181530/pakistan-military-officials-admit-defectors-key-role-in-bin-laden-operation), which you sent me approvingly, says the same thing, that there is no evidence the walk-in led to Bin Laden, and that the walk-in did not even know the target was Bin Laden.

Hersh: Uh huh, OK.

Chotiner: OK but here is my question about journalism, since you have been doing this longer than I have—

Hersh: Oh poor you, you don’t know anything. It is amazing you can speak the God’s English.

Chotiner: Are you hoping with this piece to say that you made no mistakes, or that OK there were mistakes because I am getting the ball rolling? You have quoted two pieces very approvingly, from NBC and AFP, that differ from key points in your own story. I want to know how accurate you think your story now is.

Hersh: [Laughs loudly] Well I will tell you one thing: At one point a copy editor in England confronted me about the SEALs training in Nevada and changed it to Utah, and the line made it because according to her they were sort of the same.

Chotiner: The AFP piece contradicts your piece but you aren’t running around worried about that.

Hersh: I sent it approvingly because it crossed my desk and it does say there were walk-ins. [Laughs] You can read it any way you want. The White House has been very clever about this. They have gone after me personally. They don’t like me boo hoo hoo. But they have been very careful to hedge everything, they quote Peter Bergen. Bergen or Berger, is that his name?

Chotiner: Bergen.

Hersh: They quote him. He views himself as the trustee of all things Bin Laden.

Chotiner: I just want to talk to you about your piece and journalism.

Hersh: What difference does it make what the fuck I think about journalism? I don’t think much of the journalism that I see. If you think I write stories where it is all right to just be good enough, are you kidding? You think I have a cavalier attitude on throwing stuff out? Are you kidding? I am not cavalier about what I do for a living.

Chotiner: I don’t think you are cavalier. That was not my question.

Hersh: Whatever it is, it’s an impossible question. It’s almost like you are asking me to say that there are flaws in everybody. Yes. Do I acknowledge that not everybody can be perfect? But I am not backing off anything I said.


Chotiner: Well let’s talk about sources. A lot of the reporting that got us into the last stupid war was based on bad and often anonymous sources. Is there a problem with journalists having a limited number of sources, just generally speaking? Is this a problem? With unnamed sources—

Hersh: Are you kidding me? Unnamed sources? You are smarter than that. This is too boring.

Chotiner: Let me finish my question and then you can yell at me.

Hersh: I am done yelling.

Chotiner: Is there some sort of journalistic standard that reporters should try to meet to prevent more errors?

Hersh: Let me say something to you. There was a practice at the New Yorker that continued at the London Review of Books. The reason I like the LRB is that it isn’t tied down to Americana. It is more open to being ... In Europe people think this story makes sense. There is not the quibbling. It is a different approach. By that I mean that the view of America is less cheery abroad but the standards are the same. The people at the London Review knew whom I talked to. It is the same at the New Yorker. David Remnick knows who I talk to. I do have sources, which is a problem for a lot of people that don’t.

Chotiner: OK well it seems like the upshot of what you are saying, and correct me if this is wrong—

Hersh: I just said what I said. I don’t want to hear what the upshot is. If you have another question then ask it. This is going on too long. I am too old and too cranky and too tired. I have been doing this fucking thing for a day. I told you, I warned you, that I am really irritable.

Chotiner: OK so if both places check your sources, and the New Yorker—

Hersh: Now you are restating it. In Europe it is an easier path. The notion that somehow America—I have one slight layer less. Believe me. I don’t know if you know who Mary-Kay Wilmers is. You probably don’t.

Chotiner: She is the editor of the LRB.

Hersh: Do you know how smart she is?

Chotiner: I have heard stories.

Hersh: She is fantastic. She is as good as they say. They go gaga over her. She was married to Stephen Frears. She is tenacious. But believe me this piece took a long time to get into print. A lot of questions. A lot of nasty questions.

Chotiner: OK—

Hersh: Don’t turn this into some sort of profound anti-American statement.

Chotiner: It seems like you are hinting the New Yorker rejected it for reasons having to do with politics.

Hersh: Would you care to hear the truth? Would you care to hear something that didn’t come from Vox, whoever Vox is? I am not sure you are that interested in it. I am doing a book. Within four or five days I hear that there are problems with the [official] OBL story. A lot of problems. And I have good friends in Pakistan. Really good friends. I go there a lot. Hold on, I just walked out of a two-room suite and the fucking movie crew. The fucking movie crew just leaves the desk. God dammit. [A film crew had been in Hersh’s office.] Anyway. First of all, you may get some suggestion of this. Maybe I am not an easy guy.

Chotiner: I wouldn’t dream of suggesting that.

Hersh: There was a point with the New Yorker where I thought they should rename the fucking magazine the Seymour Hersh Weekly. David Remnick has his own theories and opinions. He is not cowed by me. We have a lot of fights. We have a lot of disagreements. I don’t find that so shocking. I like him a lot, he is brilliant, he is great. I think he is even a better writer than editor. I have always been a freelancer. I always work for myself.

Chotiner: I get that.

Hersh: So, all that happens is I tell him about the story, and his initial approach was to say do a blog item. Go fuck yourself! A blog? I have done a couple blogs when it is 1,000 words but this is worth more. At that point it was very early. So I was on contract for a book and said fuck it … You want to make a lot out of it? David always says he welcomes another view. I am the guy who said fuck it, I will do what I want to do. [Editor’s note: Other news sources (http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/05/the-new-yorker-passed-on-seymour-hershs-bin-laden-206933.html) have reported that the New Yorkerdeclined to publish a version of the story.]

[Hersh picks up other phone]: Yeah. Yeah. Oh no, fuck no … I don’t want to do it there! Go fuck—

Hersh: You there?

Chotiner: Yes.

Hersh: Fucking TV interview sets up in the hall of my office building. It’s a lawyer’s building.

Chotiner: I was just asking—

Hersh: You want to write about this totally tedious shit? Yes, I am a huge pain in the ass. I am the one that decided to publish it wherever the hell I please. That’s the story. You want to listen to hall gossip about me? Go ahead. [Sarcastic voice] It is so immensely important to so many people to know where I published. I can’t believe it.

Chotiner: Can I tell you why?

Hersh: I don’t want to hear why. You think there is a different standard in London?

Chotiner: I wish you would listen.

Hersh: All right, maybe I will listen, but I gotta hang up.

Chotiner: If people here are turning down stories because of certain politics—you yourself said it was easier in Europe—that is a story that should be written.

Hersh: Now you said the first intelligent thing you have said. If you had asked whether he didn’t run this because he is in love with Obama and all that stuff that people think, no … It is a very good question. Although we have huge disagreements. My children and I have huge disagreements. I have a huge disagreement with my dog. We have a lot of disagreements and there are times when he will call me and I will not answer the call. Oh fuck hold on. He always has said to me he welcomes any information and it was I who said fuck it.

Chotiner: OK but you have talked about the New Yorker’s Americana and said my question was a good one, so is there something to it?

Hersh: I think it is a great question.

Top Comment
I have never quite understood the glee or the importance assigned to Bin Laden's demise. Happy he's dead? Sure! More...

-NNevada
125 Comments (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/05/seymour_hersh_interview_on_his_bin_laden_story_the _new_yorker_journalism.2.html#comments)Join In (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/05/seymour_hersh_interview_on_his_bin_laden_story_the _new_yorker_journalism.2.html#comments)

Chotiner: So what do you think of it?

Hersh: I just told you what I think. In the case of the Bin Laden story, he is open for anything. It was I who made the decision.

Chotiner: I feel like you are telling me two different things. One is that you get less pressure in Europe, and the other is that this story would have been fine at the New Yorker.

Hersh: So fine, I am glad you are confused. Write whichever one makes you happy.

Chotiner: OK.

Hersh: I don’t mean to yell at you but I feel good doing it. Goodbye.

Albert Doyle
05-14-2015, 12:38 PM
If the walk-in wasn't about Bin Laden then how did the ISI agent get 25 million and why did he have to be moved to the US for protection?

R.K. Locke
05-14-2015, 07:52 PM
http://memoryholeblog.com/2015/05/14/gatekeeper-or-dupe-seymour-hershs-new-false-narrative-of-the-abbottabad-raid/


Gatekeeper or Dupe? Seymour Hersh’s new false narrative of the Abbottabad raid 8

by James Tracy • Guest Posts • Tags: 9/11, journalism, news media analysis, public opinion, war on terror


Submitted by Vivian Lee

The great investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has written another blockbuster, this time about the raid on the complex at Abbottabad, Pakistan, that allegedly took out Osama bin Laden, the alleged perpetrator of the 9/11 attacks. His new article for the London Review of Books purports to blow the lid off the fake story conveyed by the Obama White House about the raid of May 1, 2011.[2] Hersh reveals several clear falsehoods inherent in the official story, only to manufacture many of his own.

The article, “The Killing of Osama bin Laden,” begins by stating that “a group of US Navy SEALs assassinated Osama bin Laden in a night raid on a high-walled compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan,” a thesis that has been disproven again and again. Evidence suggests that bin Laden was, in fact, dead by the end of 2001.[3]

Hersh’s article is crammed full of perplexing details, personae, and allegations, providing a maze of red herrings that serve to substantiate the official story of 9/11 and the myth of Osama bin Laden – while supposedly supplying the truth for the very first time. His thesis rests on a wealth of information provided by his #1 source, “a retired intelligence official who was knowledgeable about the initial intelligence about bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad” and “privy to many aspects of the SEALs’ training for the raid, and to the various after-action reports.”

We learn that it was a “walk-in” in 2010 – a former Pakistani intelligence officer – who first alerted the CIA station chief in Islamabad about bin Laden’s whereabouts. Contrary to the official story, we see that Pakistan had indeed been aware of bin Laden’s residence in Abbottabad. Indeed, Pakistan’s ISI had supposedly been holding him in the compound since 2006.

Furthermore, we learn that there was no “firefight” involved in his killing, which was originally said to have been carried out in self defense. According to Hersh’s #1 source, the SEALs blew open the doors to bin Laden’s third-floor rooms and murdered the unarmed invalid cowering in his bedroom: a “very simple, very straightforward, very professional hit.” In addition, there was no “treasure trove” of terrorist materials, as reported, consisting of computers, flash drives, videos, and documents relating to al-Qaeda.

Obama was not supposed to reveal the raid at all, according to Hersh, let alone make statements not fully vetted by the U.S. security apparatus. Instead, the plan was to collect bin Laden’s DNA in advance, conduct the raid, wait a week or so, and then announce that bin Laden had been killed in a drone attack in the Hindu Kush – and had been identified by DNA samples collected after his death. Finally, bin Laden was not buried at sea following proper Islamic burial procedures aboard the USS Carl Vinson. No – his remains were thrown unceremoniously into a body bag, after being blown to bits by rifle fire in his bedroom, and body parts were reportedly flung out of the SEALs’ helicopter on the flight back to Jalalabad.

A fantastic, bombastic exposé by Sy Hersh, filled with outrageous allegations and peppered with salty language and street lingo. But what does it tell us, besides the fact that the government, armed forces, and intelligence services lie to the American public?

First of all, it serves to substantiate the myth of al-Qaeda terrorist Osama bin Laden, who supposedly managed to elude the U.S. dragnet for a decade, supported by reported samples of his DNA (DNA evidence is a major feature of Hersh’s story). Second, it attempts to replace the ridiculous narrative of the Abbottabad raid with something seemingly more believable. Third, and perhaps most important, it buoys up the official story of 9/11 and bin Laden’s role in the false-flag operation. Finally, it accuses Obama of approving the Abbottabad raid – and lying about it – in order to increase his standing in the run-up to the 2012 election.

There is much, much more to Hersh’s 10,000 word article. Sadly, none of his contentions are true – they cannot be, since Osama bin Laden was not killed in Abbottabad in 2011. Why would this respected journalist convey such obvious disinformation? Either he is a gatekeeper – suggested by his immediate appearance to discuss his article on the gatekeeper program, Democracy Now! – or he is a dupe, actually believing what his source #1 has told him.[4]

Is this a case of “spy vs. spy” with contending factions pushing their various stories through established journalists? Is Hersh working for the neocons – or even the Israeli government? Is he striking out not only at Obama but at all future contenders, reminding them of their real positions with respect to their overlords? Whatever the purpose, it’s a sad day for Hersh – the winner of the George Orwell Award for Distinguished Contribution to Honesty and Clarity in Public Language – and for American investigative journalism.[5]


Vivian Lee is the nom de plume of a tenured professor at a US east coast university.

Notes

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

[2] http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden

[3] http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-s-big-lie-white-house-propaganda-and-the-death-of-osama-bin-laden/24594 ; http://www.globalresearch.ca/osama-died-in-2001-msnbc-hit-piece-unwittingly-reveals-corroboration-for-dr-steve-r-pieczenik-s-assertion/24753 ; http://www.globalresearch.ca/osama-bin-laden-dead-or-alive/15601 ; http://www.globalresearch.ca/osama-bin-ladens-obituary-notice/5358889; et al.

[4] http://www.democracynow.org/2015/5/12/seymour_hersh_details_explosive_story_on

[5] http://www.ncte.org/volunteer/groups/publiclangcom/orwellaward

Tracy Riddle
05-20-2015, 05:15 PM
Books allegedly found in Bin Laden's collection. Translation = anyone who read these is a conspiracy theorist/terrorist/subversive.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/terror-files-whats-osama-bin-ladens-bookshelf/story?id=31173365

R.K. Locke
05-20-2015, 05:26 PM
They have also now released an "Al Qaeda application form." I am not making this up. How much more idiotic and ridiculous can this stuff get?

Drew Phipps
05-20-2015, 09:59 PM
http://www.dni.gov/index.php/resources/bin-laden-bookshelf?start=1

On May 20, 2015, the ODNI released a sizeable tranche of documents recovered during the raid on the compound used to hide Usama bin Ladin. The release, which followed a rigorous interagency review, aligns with the President’s call for increased transparency–consistent with national security prerogatives–and the 2014 Intelligence Authorization Act, which required the ODNI to conduct a review of the documents for release.

The release contains two sections. The first is a list of non-classified, English-language material found in and around the compound. The second is a selection of now-declassified documents.

The Intelligence Community will be reviewing hundreds more documents in the near future for possible declassification and release. An interagency taskforce under the auspices of the White House and with the agreement of the DNI is reviewing all documents which supported disseminated intelligence cables, as well as other relevant material found around the compound. All documents whose publication will not hurt ongoing operations against al-Qa‘ida or their affiliates will be released.

Malcolm Pryce
05-21-2015, 08:03 PM
I haven’t visited this forum for a while but needed somewhere to vent about this latest bin Laden nonsense.


Seymour Hersh’s article is clearly disinfo, it replaces one absurd narrative with an equally absurd one whilst bolstering the core thesis that they really did kill OBL. And all based on a story from an anonymous spook. The furious reaction and the fact that he had to publish in the LRB because no one would publish it in the US is all part of the choreography.


And then we have this garbage about bin Laden’s books. How the spooks at the Pentagon Psy-op division must have laughed as they thought up the titles: 9/11 Truther stuff, Chomsky etc. And now all the MSM journalists and BBC ‘Security experts’ (i.e useful idiots) are discussing what the titles all mean.


According to the official narrative, as provided by the Pentagon, the alleged burial at sea of OBL took place at noon local time on board the USS Carl Vinson and lasted 50 minutes. And yet not one of the 3,200 ship’s complement saw it. This is patently impossible. Instead of discussing a load of unverifiable books why aren’t they challenging this absurd narrative?


Oh… I know why. As Chomsky said, if they were the sort of people to do that they would not be in the position they are in now.

Magda Hassan
05-22-2015, 01:57 PM
I'm pleased to see that OBL is relatively well read. Better read than most Mericans.

Ivan De Mey
05-24-2015, 07:54 AM
Jimmie Moglia of Your Daily Shakespeare (http://yourdailyshakespeare.com/) puts it like this:


To conclude, the Administration has shown great alacrity of enterprise in organizing the death of Osama Bin Laden, including the genius of making him die twice. And I refuse to say which of the two versions is true. For even denying that it is impossible to die twice, may be construed as a symptom of conspiracy theorizing, a sinful rejection of belief due to incredibility.

Many believe that gross and ever-widening mendacity is indispensable to current American foreign and domestic policy. For the role of the US government is to defend the interests of a few thousand individuals, while pretending to represent the American people as a whole. Lying is therefore intrinsic to its operation.

Naturally, the regime media is the anointed instrument of mass deception. But the general silence and perceived mass indifference to even colossal misrepresentations is a good index. Namely that the commandment to believe anything, provided it is quite incredible, has found a wide, willing and captive audience. It would be tempting to give a persona to judgment and exclaim, “O judgment, thou art fled to brutish beasts and men have lost their reason.”(5) But that would be a useless cry. For in our deeply Orwellian world ignorance is strength – where strength also implies the belief in the incredible and the accompanying ignorance of evidence. In the end, as we ponder on our inability to change anything, we are left to play the fool with the times, while the spirits of the wise sit in the clouds and mock us. (6)

5. Julius Caesar
6. King Henry IV, part 2

Magda Hassan
06-21-2015, 02:51 AM
Bin Laden Son Asked US for Death Certificate: WikiLeaks





Local Editor


A son of Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden asked the United States for a death certificate after US Navy SEALS killed him, said a letter released by WikiLeaks Thursday.

The letter, stating it is from the US embassy in Riyadh, is among about 70,000 documents dubbed "The Saudi Cables" the whistleblower website published.
They are among more than half a million cables and other documents from the Saudi foreign ministry and other institutions in the kingdom which WikiLeaks says it will release over the coming weeks.
The letter is signed by Glen Keiser, the US consul general in Riyadh and addressed to Abdullah bin Laden on September 9, 2011, about four months after a US raid killed his father in Pakistan after a decade-long manhunt.

"I have received your request for a death certificate for your father, Osama bin Laden," Keiser wrote.
Legal experts in the State Department advised that no such document was issued, he said.
"This is consistent with regular practice for individuals killed in the course of military operations."
Instead, Keiser provided Abdullah bin Laden with US court records in which officials confirmed his father's death and, as a result, dropped a criminal case against him.
"I hope that these US government documents are of assistance to you and your family," Keiser said.
The bin Ladens are a prominent Saudi business family. The kingdom stripped Osama bin Laden of citizenship in 1994.

Peter Lemkin
07-05-2015, 09:24 AM
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-bin-laden-death-mythology-9a3776a6e3c3 (https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-bin-laden-death-mythology-9a3776a6e3c3)

David Guyatt
07-05-2015, 11:44 AM
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-bin-laden-death-mythology-9a3776a6e3c3

A long but non-the-less very interesting read.

I was taken with this:


According to Prof. Ram, who was a senior military strategy advisor to the Saudi Royal family for over a decade:[/COLOR]
“The Battle of Tora Bora obviously raises the question why was he allowed to escape? … if US Special Forces had killed or captured him in Tora Bora in 2001, the basic justification for the Global War on Terror would have been eliminated and the subsequent (and false) claims of links between al-Qaeda and Iraq would have been meaningless.”
He points out that many of the “expansionist policies” subsequently pursued by the Bush administration as outlined by the neoconservative think-tank, the Project for a New American Century, would have had little traction had al-Qaeda been routed and bin Laden killed in Tora Bora.[/COLOR]
“The US would have been hard pressed to convince anyone of the need to invade Iraq or continue the war in Afghanistan,” concludes Ram, who was previously an editor at SITREP, the defence journal of the Royal Canadian Military Institute, where he sat on the Defence Studies Committee. “Thus, logic dictates that bin Laden was allowed to escape into Pakistan in late 2001.”

And this:


During NATO’s intervention (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/world/Canadian+military+predicted+Libya+would+descend+in to+civil/10853269/story.html) in Libya, al-Qaeda’s integral presence on the ground as part of the rebellion led Canadian pilots to joke privately that they were al-Qaeda’s air force, “since their bombing runs helped to pave the way for rebels aligned with the terrorist group.”

Which clearly point to the great game being played re 9/11 and subsequently. [/quote]

Plus this:


The document went so far as to reveal that repeated claims about bin Laden’s premature death could be traced back to ISI disinformation, put out to deflect attention from the agency’s complicity in harbouring and promoting al-Qaeda:


“ISI has consistently sought to deny the presence of al-Qaida elements in Pakistan, and to mislead US investigators… This deception has been at the very highest level, and Musharraf himself, for instance, initially insisted he was ‘certain’ bin Laden was dead.”

Musharraf, of course, according to former ISI chief Gen. Ziauddin Butt, was responsible for approving bin Laden’s protection at the Abbottabad compound under the jurisdiction of Brig. Ijaz Shah and the Pakistani Intelligence Bureau.
“ISI issues money and directions to militant groups, specially the Arab hijackers of 9/11 from al-Qaida. ISI was fully involved in devising and helping the entire affair. And that is why people like Hamid Gul and others very quickly stated the propaganda that CIA and Mossad did it.”
The report noted that although bin Laden was very much alive, reports of his being ill are accurate. The terror chief suffered “from renal deficiency [and] has been periodically undergoing dialysis in a Peshawar military hospital with the knowledge and approval of ISI if not of Gen. Pervez Musharraf himself.”
The source of the report even speculated: “Musharraf may be planning to turn over bin Laden to President Bush in time to clinch his reelection bid in November.”
Thus, in 2004, the US government-appointed commission to investigate 9/11 — staffed with former and active government and intelligence advisors — received startling information that Musharraf and the ISI were not only harbouring bin Laden and fabricating reports of his death, but were willing to hand him over to the US to aid with political point-scoring.

To this day, this unpublished 9/11 Commission addendum on Pakistan remains classified.
The US record on Saudi Arabia is equally damning. The infamous classified 28 pages (http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/saudi-s-new-king-terror-1358544415#sthash.hfkQpA6c.dpuf) of the 2002 Congressional Inquiry Report into 9/11 has been described by the inquiry’s co-chair Senator Bob Graham as providing shocking confirmation of the role of senior Saudi officials in not just sponsoring al-Qaeda, but providing specific financial support to the 9/11 hijackers and the operation itself. This January, he told a press conference:
“What would you think the Saudis’ position would be, if they knew what they had done, they knew that the United States knew what they had done, and they also observed that the United States had taken a position of either passivity, or actual hostility to letting those facts be known?”
The US has turned a blind eye to the Saudi relationship with bin Laden since the end of the Cold War.



And all because:


Former Canadian diplomat Prof. Peter Dale Scott, a leading authority on US covert operations, writes about this nexus in his landmark bookAmerican Deep State (2014), published by the University of California Press. He argues that US protection of Saudi Arabia’s terrorism infrastructure boils down to the existence of “a vital triangle at the heart of the American deep state, in which oil companies paid Saudi Arabia for oil; Saudi Arabia paid the US arms industry for planes and weapons, and the resulting huge arms contracts paid for of-the-books US covert operations like Iran-Contra.”
This nexus of power undermines establishment claims that “the wars fought by America in Asia since 9/11 have been part of a global ‘war on terror.’” In reality, says Scott, this “pseudowar” has been fought “in alliance with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Pakistan — precisely the principal political and financial backers of the al-Qaedist networks the United States has supposedly been fighting.”
That compartmentalised nexus of power was responsible for harbouring Osama bin Laden since the very beginning.

And, of course:


Yet according to Jack Murphy, a former US Army Senior Weapons Sergeant in a Military Free Fall team in 5th Special Forces Group who served in Afghanistan and Iraq:
“Various accounts of the raid itself have surfaced in recent years, some more accurate than others, none of them close to telling the full account. Contrary to official denials, helmet cam video of the raid does exist.”
If the video feed of the raid itself does exist, why was it not broadcast to White House officials? Did JSOC keep White House officials in the dark about the real-time execution of the operation?
So resolute was JSOC Commander Adm. McRaven’s determination to ensure that public scrutiny of the bin Laden raid, and events leading up it, will remain forever locked down, he ordered all government records relating to the raid to be transferred to the CIA, and deleted from Pentagon files. This guarantees that no information on the raid can ever be gained under Freedom of Information Act requests, and that the real details of the operation will indefinitely remain a closely-guarded intelligence secret.
The Pentagon had even attempted to keep that act secret, by removing mention (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2358256/Osama-Bin-Laden-files-deleted-Pentagon-transferred-CIA.html#ixzz3eeKUsEsU) of it from the final version of an inspector general report published in June 2013. The move allowed the Pentagon to deny repeated FOIA requests from the Associated Press for files about the raid, including copies of the death certificate and autopsy report for bin Laden, as well as the results of DNA tests to identify the body.
So far, there is only one reason to believe the White House’s version of events regarding the bin Laden raid: it is the White House’s version of events.
But this investigation proves decisively that given the fog of lies surrounding bin Laden, and his relationships with the US, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, this is no reason at all.
Analysis of open sources on the secretive bin Laden raid reveals that the al-Qaeda terror chief was for nearly a decade after 9/11 being protected by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, two key US allies in the ‘war on terror.’ Despite mounting evidence of the complicity of those governments in 9/11 and other anti-Western terrorist activity, successive US governments have systematically protected the Saudi and Pakistani regimes from exposure.
For Prof. Peter Dale Scott, this US protection of, and unwavering alliance with, al-Qaeda’s chief state-sponsors, is “related to the black hole at the heart of the complex US-Saudi connection…
“… a complex that involves the oil majors like Exxon, the Pentagon’s concern with oil and gas movements from the Persian Gulf and Central Asia, offsetting arms sales, Saudi investments in major US corporations like Citibank and the Carlyle Group (the owners of Booz Allen Hamilton), and above all the ultimate United States dependency on Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and OPEC, for the defense of the petrodollar.”


And thus:


By August 2010, when a former ISI officer decided to walk into the US embassy and come clean to US officials who had no idea about bin Laden’s concealment, what was once a highly compartmentalised secret became known to the wider US intelligence community. The White House was forced to do something about bin Laden. But its primary interest, from the get-go, was avoiding a scandal.

Whatever was to be done, the White House needed to ensure that bin Laden would not sing like a canary on his relationships with the West’s own allies. Administration officials also needed to avoid public scrutiny of the US government’s policy of turning a blind eye to mounting intelligence on how bin Laden was harboured, financed and protected by US allies, under a wider US-backed covert operations programme to undermine Iran and Syria.
All those factors no doubt played a key role in the decision to assassinate bin Laden, and manufacture a cover-story that would conceal the damning context of his death from public understanding.
It appears the final decision was not made until late April 2011 — when a British proposal to renew a ‘covenant of security’ with al-Qaeda was rejected by bin Laden. The haste with which the operation was executed perhaps explains the absurd discrepancies in the cover-story.
In Scott’s words: “[B]US security appears to have been hijacked by these deeper forces, in order to protect terrorists who should have been reined in. And the governing media have been complicit in concealing this situation.”
And thus, bin Laden’s execution successfully obscured the wider context of his state-sponsorship, including longstanding US complicity in protecting the governments that protected the al-Qaeda terror chief, before and after 9/11.

And I would add... allowed 9/11 to take place.