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David Butler
05-02-2011, 03:19 AM
Al-Qaeda founder and leader Osama Bin Laden is dead, according to US media reports citing officials.

The US is in possession of Bin Laden's body, the reports say. President Barack Obama is due to make a statement shortly.

Bin Laden is top of the US most wanted list.

He is accused of being behind a number of atrocities, including the attacks on New York and Washington on 11 September 2001.

The al-Qaeda leader was killed in a mansion outside Islamabad in an operation based on actionable US intelligence, CNN reported.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-13256676

James Lewis
05-02-2011, 03:25 AM
Ok...so he's supposedly dead...show me the body like they did with Che Guevara and I'll believe it.

James Lewis
05-02-2011, 03:31 AM
I suppose we've all heard the news that Osama Bin Laden was killed several days ago in a mansion in Pakistan, and that the US has possession of his body. My questions are as follows: Why did it take so long to find him? Why now? And did they really "kill" him a few days ago, or has he been dead for years and DNA collected years ago to be used for political purposes?

Jack White
05-02-2011, 03:33 AM
Al-Qaeda founder and leader Osama Bin Laden is dead, according to US media reports citing officials.

The US is in possession of Bin Laden's body, the reports say. President Barack Obama is due to make a statement shortly.

Bin Laden is top of the US most wanted list.

He is accused of being behind a number of atrocities, including the attacks on New York and Washington on 11 September 2001.

The al-Qaeda leader was killed in a mansion outside Islamabad in an operation based on actionable US intelligence, CNN reported.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-13256676

Clearly a manufactured event to take the spotlight off of Obama COLB.

Jack

David Butler
05-02-2011, 03:36 AM
He has evaded the forces of the US and its allies for a decade, despite a $25m bounty on his head.


I wonder if we will see the happy smiling face of whoever won the $25m prize ? :-)

I suspect not....

David Butler
05-02-2011, 03:55 AM
Get Bin Laden was authorised last week it would seem -

Mr Obama said he had been briefed last August on a possible lead to Osama Bin Laden's whereabouts.

It led to intelligence that the al-Qaeda leader was hiding in a compound deep within Pakistan.

The president authorised an operation to "get Bin Laden" last week, he said, and on Sunday a small team of US forces undertook the operation.

After a "firefight" Bin Laden was killed and his body taken by US forces, the president said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256676

Jack White
05-02-2011, 04:05 AM
Obama just took official "credit" for ordering the US to murder "Bin Laden".

The Church Lady commented "Well, isn't that special."

Ed Jewett
05-02-2011, 04:07 AM
The War on Terror is over. The war on nuclear power plants, tornados, and fault lines is only beginning.

James H. Fetzer
05-02-2011, 04:29 AM
One of the most blatant acts of bullshit in our nation's history! A man who could so directly and baldly lie in announcing the death of a man who died on or about 15 December 2001 could also directly and baldly lie about his birth certificate! They are announcing that Osama was taken out by Obama. Now the wars can continue, the predator drones can keep killing, and no one will care about where Barack was born!

Official: Osama bin Laden is dead
www.msnbc.msn.com
Osama bin Laden is dead and US has body, says person familiar with developments.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 04:41 AM
While unclear if this really is OBL, yes why take so long to kill an old friend and useful bogeyman? Also, from what I heard they captured him alive and killed him - why not arrest him and try him for all the various things they claimed - sort of made me think like LHO been shut up.....as the truth would be all too damning. Why do I think there will be no definitive proof it was him.

I find it very sad to see all the Americans celebrating thinking that the person who 'pulled off' 911 et al. was killed.....it is my firm belief that the masterminds of 911 are alive and well - many in the beltway or connected to it.

Coming just a day after a second attempt on Gadaffi makes one wonder who is trying to clear the chess board....or has Gadaffi been anointed to take OBL's role as bogeyman in chief.

The location of the supposed mission in the mansion is just a few Km from where Pakistani Intelligence officers and Military Officers are trained. Interesting, as whoever it was, he/they were long living there. To get into this town, one has to go through many military checkpoints, searches, etc. Almost all in that town are military, intelligence and a few who work for them. The equivalent would be finding the most wanted American hiding in Camp Pendleton, Oceanside, CA. If a real deal, he had the OK of someone very high in Pakistani Military and/or Intelligence - both of which are supposed to be coordinated with American Military and Intelligence. There is much more to this story [however it plays out] than first meets the eye.

Real event or phony one, this will create more revenge than I think the US is prepared for.

Everyone in MSM and MS-World taking for granted Obama's claims that OBL was responsible for 911, when FBI wanted poster and attending details do NOT list him for that......something is very rotten...but we long knew that. Another patsy dead or said to be dead. Even Al Jazeera, usually more cautious, is taking this hook, line and sinker.

James Lewis
05-02-2011, 05:01 AM
Ah, Peter...you hit the nail right on the head. "Old friend" is exactly the right terminology to use concerning Mr. Bin Laden. Of course, because of our "friends" in the mainstream media, most ordinary people don't know about the CIA's role in the initial creation of this creature/boogeyman. Me, I just wonder how much Photoshopping will be done to create a "death mask" to convince the gullible public that the person they see is actually Osama Bin Laden? The LHO reference is correct...one must take out the patsy to keep the plan secret/operational. I just hope we're ready for the blowback that's coming...brace yourselves, America.


While unclear if this really is OBL, yes why take so long to kill an old friend and useful boggieman? Also, from what I heard they captured him alive and killed him - why not arrest him and try him for all the various things they claimed - sort of made me think like LHO been shut up.....as the truth would be all too damning. Why do I think there will be no definitive proof it was him.

I find it very sad to see all the Americans celebrating thinking that the person who 'pulled off' 911 et al. was killed.....it is my firm belief that the masterminds of 911 are alive and well - many in the beltway or connected to it.

Coming just a day after a second attempt on Gadaffi makes one wonder who is trying to clear the chess board....

The location of the supposed mission in the mansion is just a few Km from where Pakistani Intelligence officers are trained. Interesting, as whoever it was, he/they were long living there.

Real event of phony one, this will create more revenge than I think the US is prepared for.

Everyone in MSM and MS-World taking for granted Obama's claims that OBL was responsible for 911, when FBI wanted poster and attending details do NOT list him for that......something is very rotten...but we long knew that.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 05:15 AM
But the 'War On Terror' our war to never end wars will continue...of this I'm sure! :mexican:

I hope this brings back all the strange anomalies to the light of review and research, such as the phony OBL videos; the bin Laden's being flown out of the USA and Canada just after 911, his having been a patient in a US Military Medical facility, his 'escape' from Tora Bora, the long dead OBL now being killed again, all the evidence that at BEST OBL was a useful tool in 911 for others.

This whole persona [if not 'legend' in the intelligence sense] needs to be deconstructed and researched much further. I take nothing that the US Govt. is saying now or over the last two decades about OBL at face value.

Ed Jewett
05-02-2011, 05:23 AM
According to news reported by WikiLeaks, threats have been received from al-Qaeda terrorists, stating that they will “unleash a nuclear hellstorm” upon Western countries if Osama bin Laden is ever caught or killed.
Further, an al-Qaeda senior commander revealed that their group has hidden a nuclear device somewhere in Europe, which will be exploded if and when Osama bin Laden is nabbed or assassinated, per recent “top secret” documents, publicized by whistle-blower WikiLeaks.
These files contain confidential specifics regarding the backgrounds and confinement of 780 prisoners who have been held or released from the Guantanamo Bay detention facility in Cuba, including their medical condition and whatever information they have divulged during questioning.
The questioning discovered other possible plots – including one to recruit staff at Heathrow Airport and the poisoning of public buildings in the U.S. by putting cyanide in the air conditioning. About 200 detainees labeled as dangerous international terrorists and hundreds were assessed as “low-level foot soldiers.”
Also disclosed, was information that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, operational commander of al-Qaeda, along with approximately 150 innocent Pakistanis and Afghans were arrested and jailed. Some were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Any of those persons taken to Guantanamo were basically unable to prove their innocence, even if they were innocent.
Certain U.S. and European news centers, have received these documents which state that at the time of the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the U.S., the key figures associated with al-Qaeda, were meeting in a safe house in Karachi, Pakistan. From this location, they watched the airplanes crash into the World Trade Center, on live TV.
At the same time, the accused planner of the USS’ Cole bombing, near Yemen, was recuperating from a tonsillectomy; the mastermind of the Bali 2001 bombing was busy purchasing lab equipment for a biological weapons endeavor.
By the next day, many of the al-Qaeda terrorist associates quietly returned to Afghanistan to do their strategic planning for an extended war, as reports were made by the Washington Post, about new information on the al-Qaeda terror brigade’s location.
The secret files describe the 9/11 terrorist assaults and the locations of its’ planners at the time of the attacks, which included the “world’s most wanted” – Osama Bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri his deputy.
The documents also state that on Sept. 15th, bin Laden and his group met in Kandahar province, at a guest house to “defend Afghanistan against infidel invaders” and to “fight in the name of Allah.”
In spite of the promise by President Obama when he took office, to close Guantanamo Bay – he couldn’t win his political fight with Republicans over this matter - and now he won’t be able to close it at all – a rather embarrassing situation for Obama.

http://current.com/news/93194115_wikileaks-al-qaeda-threatens-to-unleash-nuclear-hellstorm-because-bin-laden-killed.htm

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 05:26 AM
According to news reported by WikiLeaks, threats have been received from al-Qaeda terrorists, stating that they will “unleash a nuclear hellstorm” upon Western countries if Osama bin Laden is ever caught or killed.
Further, an al-Qaeda senior commander revealed that their group has hidden a nuclear device somewhere in Europe, which will be exploded if and when Osama bin Laden is nabbed or assassinated, per recent “top secret” documents, publicized by whistle-blower WikiLeaks.

http://current.com/news/93194115_wikileaks-al-qaeda-threatens-to-unleash-nuclear-hellstorm-because-bin-laden-killed.htm

Oh, boy...can't wait.....good times are here again...NOT!

James Lewis
05-02-2011, 05:37 AM
Peter, as muckraking journalist George Seldes stated in the late 1800s, take nothing for granted when dealing with the US media. They will manipulate anything and anyone for the express purpose of satisfying the people who sponsor and/or pay them. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that the great majority of the supposed "Bin Laden" videos were fake...but the majority of the American public, who are gullible to begin with, will take those videos and anything else the media spews out at face value, because they simply don't know any better, or want to. How do I know this? Because I just had an argument with someone in my household about that very thing, and what did they say?? "Why would they lie about his being dead?" Just saying...


But the 'War On Terror' our war to never end wars will continue...of this I'm sure! :mexican:

I hope this brings back all the strange anomalies to the light of review and research, such as the phony OBL videos; the bin Laden's being flown out of the USA and Canada just after 911, his having been a patient in a US Military Medical facility, his 'escape' from Tora Bora, the long dead OBL now being killed again, all the evidence that at BEST OBL was a useful tool in 911 for others.

This whole persona [if not 'legend' in the intelligence sense] needs to be deconstructed and researched much further. I take nothing that the US Govt. is saying now or over the last two decades about OBL at face value.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 05:42 AM
A very sad and ironic [moronic?] reaction of the blood-thristy crowds in D.C. and N.Y.C. are saying and chanting that the 'war on terror' is now over..... I hate to tell them.... How very naive the Sheeple are - they haven't a clue of how they are manipulated and propagandized, lied to. :what:

Whether or not Al Quida and others have nukes or bioweapons - or just plain Semtex....the response to this 'event' [real or not] will be extreme in Europe and N.A. Fasten your seatbelt! Rather than the phony war on terror being 'over', I think it has just entered a whole new 'hot' phase.

James Lewis
05-02-2011, 05:58 AM
Well, moronic would be the correct term for what you're seeing out of these crowds in D.C., NYC, and elsewhere. I think we both know that good old jingoism is one of the best ways to blind the American public to the things that are happening right under their noses that are far more important than what happens/happened to Mr. Bin Laden. Little do those people know...the shit is about to hit the fan...and they better hope it doesn't hit them square in the face. The phony war on terror is about to hit its next phase...and those people in the streets may well wish Mr. Bin Laden was still alive when it's all over.


A very sad and ironic [moronic?] reaction of the blood-thristy crowds in D.C. and N.Y.C. are saying and chanting that the 'war on terror' is now over..... I hate to tell them.... Now very naive the Sheeple are - they haven't a clue of how they are manipulated and propagandized, lied to. :what:

Whether or not Al Quida and others have nukes or bioweapons - or just plain Semtex....the response to this 'event' [real or not] will be extreme in Europe and N.A. Fasten your seatbelt! Rather than the phony war on terror being 'over', I think it has just entered a whole new 'hot' phase.

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 06:12 AM
Dead? Again? I wonder whose body they'll use? Maybe he's been in the deep freezer until needed. Maybe they'll use a double. Maybe they'll have tiny pieces of something. In any case just another side show. :pinkelephant:

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 06:29 AM
Dead? Again? I wonder whose body they'll use? Maybe he's been in the deep freezer until needed. Maybe they'll use a double. Maybe they'll have tiny pieces of something. In any case just another side show. :pinkelephant:

I'd bet the double who acted in the video tape [the one where he's wrong-handed AND wearing a ring on one finger] is laying low...as they just might need his body for another mission.....:mexican:

Carsten Wiethoff
05-02-2011, 06:49 AM
From http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead


REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT ON OSAMA BIN LADEN (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/05/02/remarks-president-osama-bin-laden)

East Room

11:35 P.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Good evening. Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world that the United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of al Qaeda, and a terrorist who’s responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent men, women, and children.

It was nearly 10 years ago that a bright September day was darkened by the worst attack on the American people in our history. The images of 9/11 are seared into our national memory -- hijacked planes cutting through a cloudless September sky; the Twin Towers collapsing to the ground; black smoke billowing up from the Pentagon; the wreckage of Flight 93 in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, where the actions of heroic citizens saved even more heartbreak and destruction.

And yet we know that the worst images are those that were unseen to the world. The empty seat at the dinner table. Children who were forced to grow up without their mother or their father. Parents who would never know the feeling of their child’s embrace. Nearly 3,000 citizens taken from us, leaving a gaping hole in our hearts.

On September 11, 2001, in our time of grief, the American people came together. We offered our neighbors a hand, and we offered the wounded our blood. We reaffirmed our ties to each other, and our love of community and country. On that day, no matter where we came from, what God we prayed to, or what race or ethnicity we were, we were united as one American family.

We were also united in our resolve to protect our nation and to bring those who committed this vicious attack to justice. We quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda -- an organization headed by Osama bin Laden, which had openly declared war on the United States and was committed to killing innocents in our country and around the globe. And so we went to war against al Qaeda to protect our citizens, our friends, and our allies.

Over the last 10 years, thanks to the tireless and heroic work of our military and our counterterrorism professionals, we’ve made great strides in that effort. We’ve disrupted terrorist attacks and strengthened our homeland defense. In Afghanistan, we removed the Taliban government, which had given bin Laden and al Qaeda safe haven and support. And around the globe, we worked with our friends and allies to capture or kill scores of al Qaeda terrorists, including several who were a part of the 9/11 plot.

Yet Osama bin Laden avoided capture and escaped across the Afghan border into Pakistan. Meanwhile, al Qaeda continued to operate from along that border and operate through its affiliates across the world.

And so shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against al Qaeda, even as we continued our broader efforts to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat his network.

Then, last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden. It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground. I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan. And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice.

Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. No Americans were harmed. They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.

For over two decades, bin Laden has been al Qaeda’s leader and symbol, and has continued to plot attacks against our country and our friends and allies. The death of bin Laden marks the most significant achievement to date in our nation’s effort to defeat al Qaeda.

Yet his death does not mark the end of our effort. There’s no doubt that al Qaeda will continue to pursue attacks against us. We must –- and we will -- remain vigilant at home and abroad.

As we do, we must also reaffirm that the United States is not –- and never will be -– at war with Islam. I’ve made clear, just as President Bush did shortly after 9/11, that our war is not against Islam. Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader; he was a mass murderer of Muslims. Indeed, al Qaeda has slaughtered scores of Muslims in many countries, including our own. So his demise should be welcomed by all who believe in peace and human dignity.

Over the years, I’ve repeatedly made clear that we would take action within Pakistan if we knew where bin Laden was. That is what we’ve done. But it’s important to note that our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding. Indeed, bin Laden had declared war against Pakistan as well, and ordered attacks against the Pakistani people.

Tonight, I called President Zardari, and my team has also spoken with their Pakistani counterparts. They agree that this is a good and historic day for both of our nations. And going forward, it is essential that Pakistan continue to join us in the fight against al Qaeda and its affiliates.

The American people did not choose this fight. It came to our shores, and started with the senseless slaughter of our citizens. After nearly 10 years of service, struggle, and sacrifice, we know well the costs of war. These efforts weigh on me every time I, as Commander-in-Chief, have to sign a letter to a family that has lost a loved one, or look into the eyes of a service member who’s been gravely wounded.

So Americans understand the costs of war. Yet as a country, we will never tolerate our security being threatened, nor stand idly by when our people have been killed. We will be relentless in defense of our citizens and our friends and allies. We will be true to the values that make us who we are. And on nights like this one, we can say to those families who have lost loved ones to al Qaeda’s terror: Justice has been done.

Tonight, we give thanks to the countless intelligence and counterterrorism professionals who’ve worked tirelessly to achieve this outcome. The American people do not see their work, nor know their names. But tonight, they feel the satisfaction of their work and the result of their pursuit of justice.

We give thanks for the men who carried out this operation, for they exemplify the professionalism, patriotism, and unparalleled courage of those who serve our country. And they are part of a generation that has borne the heaviest share of the burden since that September day.

Finally, let me say to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11 that we have never forgotten your loss, nor wavered in our commitment to see that we do whatever it takes to prevent another attack on our shores.

And tonight, let us think back to the sense of unity that prevailed on 9/11. I know that it has, at times, frayed. Yet today’s achievement is a testament to the greatness of our country and the determination of the American people.

The cause of securing our country is not complete. But tonight, we are once again reminded that America can do whatever we set our mind to. That is the story of our history, whether it’s the pursuit of prosperity for our people, or the struggle for equality for all our citizens; our commitment to stand up for our values abroad, and our sacrifices to make the world a safer place.

Let us remember that we can do these things not just because of wealth or power, but because of who we are: one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. May God bless you. And may God bless the United States of America.

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 08:01 AM
Roll up! Roll up! :pinkelephant::pinkelephant::pinkelephant:
Fun and games have just begun. I have just heard that Osama has already been buried at sea.

I'd like to be under the sea
In an octopus' garden in the shade
He'd let us in, knows where we've been
In his octopus' garden in the shade

I'd ask my friends to come and see
An octopus' garden with me
I'd like to be under the sea
In an octopus' garden in the shade.

We would be warm below the storm
In our little hideaway beneath the waves
Resting our head on the sea bed
In an octopus' garden near a cave

We would sing and dance around
because we know we can't be found
I'd like to be under the sea
In an octopus' garden in the shade

We would shout and swim about
The coral that lies beneath the waves
(Lies beneath the ocean waves)
Oh what joy for every girl and boy
Knowing they're happy and they're safe
(Happy and they're safe)

We would be so happy you and me
No one there to tell us what to do
I'd like to be under the sea
In an octopus' garden with you.

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 08:22 AM
In 1998 Gadhafi Issued the FIRST Interpol Arrest Warrant against Osama bin Ladin. That Warrant was blocked by MI6,CIA. Just for the record.

Carsten Wiethoff
05-02-2011, 08:31 AM
http://www.cartoonaday.com/images/cartoons/2011/05/trump-certificate-long-form-598x440.jpg Source: http://www.cartoonaday.com/osama-bin-laden-killed-body-buried-at-sea/

Mark Ludwig
05-02-2011, 08:33 AM
It's interesting that the news broke from Rumsfelds office.

Also he has been buried at sea :what:

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 08:48 AM
Oh, yeah, that IS most interesting :gossip:

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 09:26 AM
As a student of black ops, one of the repeating features is the QUICK removal of the body [evidence], so that no real identification/verification can be had. We've been had....especially those who'd buy this snake oil.

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 09:34 AM
At least he got to see that lovely royal wedding before he died :pope:

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 09:37 AM
As a student of black ops, one of the repeating features is the QUICK removal of the body [evidence], so that no real identification/verification can be had. We've been had....especially those who'd buy this snake oil.


Osama Bin Laden was arrested and taken into custody and brought to a Federal Prison Facility tonight. A News Reporter asked Bin Laden, “Are you responsible for the 911 Attacks?” Bin Laden answered, “The U.S. has taken me into custody because I worked for the C.I.A. and helped the U.S. to defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. I’M JUST A PATSY!”

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 10:00 AM
Just wanted to state for the historical record that OBL was never wanted for the 9/11 attacks. He was only wanted for the attack on the USS Cole and another non-domestic event.
2498

But the media always use the word "accused" in connection with his masterminding of 911 - the implication being he was responsible even when he clearly wasn't.

2499
The lie continues and must be maintained.https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/images/misc/pencil.png

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 10:20 AM
It's interesting that the news broke from Rumsfelds office.

Also he has been buried at sea :what:

I wonder if the dropped whatever body there was in the same place as they dumped JFK's casket......

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 10:22 AM
My memory must be 'going' :loco:....as I simply can NOT remember the trial of OBL.....:pullhair:

Mark Ludwig
05-02-2011, 10:28 AM
It's interesting that the news broke from Rumsfelds office.

Also he has been buried at sea :what:

I wonder if the dropped whatever body there was in the same place as they dumped JFK's casket......

The news was twittered from Rumsfelds office.

It smells, it is fishy and the people rejoice :vomit:

2012 is a given now for Obama.

Ps the fact that this happened on may day was not lost on me.

Mark Ludwig
05-02-2011, 10:38 AM
My memory must be 'going' :loco:....as I simply can NOT remember the trial of OBL.....:pullhair:


9 mm trial.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 10:47 AM
My memory must be 'going' :loco:....as I simply can NOT remember the trial of OBL.....:pullhair:


9 mm trial.

Oh, likely a much larger caliber than that! Those 'Rambos' don't use such modest bullets. By the way, they say he was shot in the head...... I'm sure they had orders to take no one alive. Some women and children were also killed...but why would that bother an American Special Forces...they do that everyday for target practice.....

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 10:48 AM
From Obama's speech.


After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.

OK - so it was an execution.

Rumsfeld then leaks that the supposed corpse has been "disposed of" at sea.

Last year's bogeyman put in the trash.

Now They need a new one.

This comes down to one word:

TIMING.

Obama is in difficulty over the birth certificate, which appears to have been shown to be a computer construction. Regardless of whether he was born in America or not (frankly I couldn't care less), he appears to have been caught out in a lie.

Plus American and Japanese debt is out of control, as is Fukushima. The citizens of the European PIIGs have been treated like swine and slaves by the bankers, and crippled with never-ending and unrepayable levels of debt. And several North African and Arab states are in complete turmoil - with the West and NATO's highly selective interventions revealed in their deep moral hypocrisy, to anybody with a brain larger than a pea.

TIMING TIMING TIMING.

Why kill "Osama Bin Laden" in a "compound" within metres of a major Pakistani military base NOW?

Are the hawks going to manufacture MSM outrage against Pakistan and launch a new war?

Or is this all to divert attention from the collapse of the global financial system and Obama's little troubles?

Btw if it was Osama in that villa, presumably with easy access to a dialysis machine, then both the ISI and CIA will have known precisely where he was. And given there were allegedly no phone lines in and out of the villa, it's not much of a Dr Evil Master Terrorist Shack.... :flames:

Carsten Wiethoff
05-02-2011, 11:08 AM
From http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/bin-laden-was-living-pakistani-compound


The al-Qaida chief was living in a house in the town of Abbottabad that a U.S. official said was "custom built to hide someone of significance." Abbottabad is around 60 miles from the capital Islamabad, far from the remote mountain caves along the Pakistan-Afghanistan tribal border where most intelligence assessments had put bin Laden in recent years.
The house was close to the Kakul Military Academy, an army-run institution where top officers train and one of several military institutions in the town.
An American administration official said the compound was built in 2005 at the end of a narrow dirt road with "extraordinary" security measures. He said it had 12 to 18-feet walls topped with barbed wire with two security gates and no telephone or Internet service connected to it.
A Pakistan intelligence official said the property where bin Laden was staying was 3,000 square feet.


And quoting Jan:

Btw if it was Osama in that villa, presumably with easy access to a dialysis machine, then both the ISI and CIA will have known precisely where he was. And given there were allegedly no phone lines in and out of the villa, it's not much of a Dr Evil Master Terrorist Shack....

I would say it is more like a special prison. And ISI and CIA put Osama there in 2005. Where was he before that time, if I may ask?

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 11:21 AM
I would say it is more like a special prison. And ISI and CIA put Osama there in 2005. Where was he before that time, if I may ask?

Carsten - yes, I agree. Abbottabad as Guantanamo without the orange jumpsuits or snarling Abu Ghraib dogs....

It feels like the "USA catches and kills Osama Bin Laden" story was a trump card, an Ace in the Hole, available to be played by the American President whenever he was in dire need.

So, this comes down to timing.

The deep political question is: WHY NOW?

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 11:34 AM
It does look a lot like that Carsten.

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 11:53 AM
Insiders with advance knowledge could have made a lot of money:


Oil drops sharply after bin Laden death

LONDON | Mon May 2, 2011 12:36pm BST

LONDON (Reuters) - Oil prices fell more than 3 percent on Monday after U.S. forces killed al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden following a decade of military operations across central Asia and the Middle East.

Brent crude futures for June fell $4.22 to a low of $121.67 a barrel before rallying to $123.65 by 12:10 p.m. Last month Brent hit a 32-month high above $127.

U.S. crude slid $1.90 to $112.03.

European futures trading volume was depressed by a public holiday in Britain and several other countries, which may have added to price volatility, oil brokers said.

News of bin Laden's death raised expectations that the risk of attacks by Islamic radicals could decline and tension in the Middle East could ease, bringing lower oil prices.

But analysts said most of the risk premium attached to oil prices was based on the war in Libya, wider unrest in the Middle East and North Africa, as well as increasing global oil demand.

"The fall in price should be short-lived," said Carsten Fritsch, commodity analyst at Commerzbank in Frankfurt.

"Talk that the risk premium should ease due to bin Laden's death is premature. The risk premium is high because of the war in Libya and ongoing unrest in the Middle East, and that is unlikely to change," he added.

"TEMPORARY"

Economists including David Cohen from Action Economics warned that in the near term Bin Laden's killing might trigger a violent response by al Qaeda, but analysts said it was unlikely the network would succeed in disrupting oil supplies.

The closest al Qaeda has been to hitting the oil industry was on February 24, 2006, when Saudi forces repelled a suicide attack on the Abqaiq oil-processing centre, the world's largest.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the FBI have not issued any warning of a credible or imminent threat, but Obama warned Americans to remain vigilant.

Thorbjrn Bak Jensen of Global Risk Management also suggested the initial sell-off was unlikely to last.

"We regard the reactions as temporary, as nothing fundamentally new is really on the table. If anything, it might be a good idea to secure oil costs," he said.

The killing of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's son in a NATO air strike over the weekend also boosted hopes of a swifter end to the civil war and normalisation of oil production sooner rather than later, analysts said.

Saudi Arabia's crude oil output edged back up in April to around 8.5 million barrels per day (bpd) from roughly 8.3 million bpd in March as demand picked up, Saudi-based industry sources said on Sunday.

The dollar strengthened slightly on Monday following last week's slide, deterring investors from piling into commodities this week and triggering a 10 percent plunge in spot silver prices.

Money managers increased their bets on higher U.S. crude oil prices to a combined record level in New York and London in the week to April 26, data from the CFTC showed on Friday, as U.S. prices rose to their highest level since September 2008.

Volatility and uncertainty due to the pan-Arab protests and Libya's conflict have tempered oil trading. The U.S. 30-day average volume was down by nearly 130,000 lots compared with the 250-day average at the end of last week, Reuters data showed.

Additional reporting by Alejandro Barbajosa, editing by Jane Baird

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/uk-markets-oil-idUKTRE7410Y820110502

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 12:13 PM
I would say it is more like a special prison. And ISI and CIA put Osama there in 2005. Where was he before that time, if I may ask?

Carsten - yes, I agree. Abbottabad as Guantanamo without the orange jumpsuits or snarling Abu Ghraib dogs....

It feels like the "USA catches and kills Osama Bin Laden" story was a trump card, an Ace in the Hole, available to be played by the American President whenever he was in dire need.

So, this comes down to timing.

The deep political question is: WHY NOW?

The real reason for the timing may take some time to figure out. Certainly accomplished a few things...sent a chilling message to Ghadaffi!:D; boosted Obama {Peace Candidate} has much better chances of re-election as a War President; distraction from any 'bad news' for the President and government; possible cover for something else happening deep behind the 'scenes'.....or other.

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 12:32 PM
It was a staged execution.

If it was Osama, then They clearly didn't want Bin Laden giving his side in TV interviews or - heaven forbid - a courtroom.


U.S. team's mission was to kill bin Laden, not capture

WASHINGTON | Mon May 2, 2011 8:24am EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, not capture him, a U.S. national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.

(Reporting by Mark Hosenball, writing by Matt Spetalnick)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE7413H220110502

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 12:36 PM
It was a staged execution.

If it was Osama, then They clearly didn't want Bin Laden giving his side in TV interviews or - heaven forbid - a courtroom.


U.S. team's mission was to kill bin Laden, not capture
WASHINGTON | Mon May 2, 2011 8:24am EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, not capture him, a U.S. national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.

(Reporting by Mark Hosenball, writing by Matt Spetalnick)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE7413H220110502

That's pretty damning admission....that it was a 'kill' op......what did they not want to hear at his trial [as if we don't know!!!!]....yes, I think it does come down to why now.....and I fear it has less to do with gold stars for Obama's good homework assignment, nor distraction from his political embarrassments. I fear it is a MAJOR distraction of attention so that something very horrible can be done or started when no one is watching......time will tell.

Carsten Wiethoff
05-02-2011, 12:40 PM
Maybe another Bin Laden message was upcoming, this time for real. I could imagine several issues on which a statement by a healthy looking Osama would have been very painful for the US.


:nono:

Mark Ludwig
05-02-2011, 01:00 PM
"Iran says the death of bin Laden has removed "any excuse" for the United States and its allies for deploying forces in the Middle East under the pretext of fighting terrorism."

The timing of Obama being president, and wanting to pull troops out of the middle east, the rise of China is so convenient.

I'm starting to think they have known for years where he was and could of got him at any time, but waited for maximum political capital.

Any word from his family...........

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 01:00 PM
http://wildfire.gigya.com/facebook/preview.aspx?fb_sig_api_key=f7667e9ebccf2157d6f15f 991a5e3ce9&wid=533468491&p=bHQ9MTMwNDM%2AMDY2ODM4NiZwdD%2AxMzA%2AMzQwNjcwMz g2JnA9MTI1ODQxMSZkPUFCQ%2A5ld3NfU%2AZQX%2AxvY2tlX% 2AVtYmVkJm49ZmFjZWJvb2smZz%2AzJm89M2ZlOTFiZWM4YTZj NDAzODljMWVjNGRjYjg3ZTUxMzImb2Y9MA%3D%3D&s=1

Video footage of inside the compound. Looks very domestic and is if he were in his bed when he was murdered.

Anthony Thorne
05-02-2011, 01:13 PM
"Tell-all' biographies were released by all the pertinent political leaders over the last 12 months - Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld, Oz PM John Howard - with timing too concise to be coincidental. Each gave their 'frank' and 'honest' assessment of the 9/11 attacks, throwing out the occasional limited-hangout 'mistake' (as with some of Rumsfeld's damning mock-contrite retrospective assessments), reinforced the official story (ala Howard's dim and annoying volume) or flat out lied (all of the above, but note Blair's comments re 9/11 where he boldly states "We received no warnings at all. None" - a gross distortion of the facts that even he would know was incorrect).

The propaganda in place, the scene is set for a 10th anniversary geared to move the public on, to place 9/11 as an 'old' story and one which no longer bears that much scrutiny. If Bin Laden is dead, then 9/11 has been avenged. Perhaps new events will provide continuing reasons for US military might to remain in the Middle East? If we're no longer 'over there' because of 9/11 and Bin Laden is dead, what are all these 9/11 truthers going on about and why should I read their books, watch their DVD's, or listen to their conspiratorial theories? Can't they get a life?

Bin Laden served a propaganda purpose in the years following 9/11, and probably did (a more subtle theory worth following) in the years prior as well. Perhaps the purpose has changed. One thing is clear though - the next radical foreigner chosen to 'confess' to a false flag will be backed up with a much more concrete 'official story' - keeping the Bin Laden / 9/11 mythology afloat has taken a lot of work and suffered serious blows from the most humble of activists. I doubt they'll let the official story be as easily wounded next time.

If the US feels that they have 'avenged' 9/11, will they now be twice as quick to demand blood the next time an evil mastermind patsy is dangled in front of them? Deep in the intel war-rooms of the Pentagon and Langley, I'm sure many of these topics are receiving serious discussion.

Bin Laden's 'burial at sea' is in keeping with the here today, gone tomorrow nature of much of the critical 9/11 evidence, right down to torture recordings destroyed and terabytes of Able Danger terrorist data-mining logs deleted on Rumsfeld's direct orders. I expect this story, fake on some, many or even all levels, to be endlessly replayed and recounted for the rest of the year.

Danny Jarman
05-02-2011, 01:28 PM
So cringeworthy seeing all those people celebrating....if only they knew the truth. :spy:

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 01:36 PM
Even before U.S. special forces succeeded in their mission to capture or kill Osama bin Laden earlier today, Twitter users were recording a rough outline of the events to come.
Sohaib Athar (https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual), who describes himself as a 30-ish independent software consultant "taking a break from the rat-race by hiding in the mountains with his laptops," happened to be in Abbottabad, Pakistan, about 10 hours ago.
Athar heard the helicopters used during the raid. He shared updates live on Twitter, according to the microblogging service's timestamps. And he's likely to be a footnote in history as a result.
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2011/05/01/sohaib-small_120x120.jpg Sohaib Athar
(Credit: Sohaib Athar (https://si2.twimg.com/profile_images/1186251637/sohaib-small.jpg))
President Obama announced bin Laden's demise this evening, saying the elusive al-Qaeda leader was killed in a firefight and the identity of his body had been confirmed. (See related CNET story (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-20058782-261.html).)
Here are some excerpts from the conversation that Athar and other Twitter users had over the last 10 hours:

https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64780730286358528
Helicopter hovering above Abbottabad at 1AM (is a rare event). about 10 hours ago via TweetDeck https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64783440226168832
A huge window shaking bang here in Abbottabad Cantt. I hope its not the start of something nasty :-S about 10 hours ago via TweetDeck
https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64792407144796160
@m0hcin all silent after the blast, but a friend heard it 6 km away too... the helicopter is gone too. about 9 hours ago via TweetDeck in reply to m0hcin
https://twitter.com/m0hcin/status/64791032579108864
Just talked to family in Abbottabad, say they heard three blasts one after another, don't know what really happened. about 10 hours ago via web
https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64793269908930560 (https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64793269908930560)
@m0hcin the few people online at this time of the night are saying one of the copters was not Pakistani... about 9 hours ago via TweetDeck in reply to m0hcin
https://twitter.com/m0hcin/status/64794837077065728
Seems something nasty happening in #Abbottabad, God save us. about 9 hours ago via web
https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64796769418088448
Since taliban (probably) don't have helicpoters, and since they're saying it was not "ours", so must be a complicated situation #abbottabad about 9 hours ago via TweetDeck
https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64798882332278785
The abbottabad helicopter/UFO was shot down near the Bilal Town area, and there's report of a flash. People saying it could be a drone. about 9 hours ago via TweetDeck
https://twitter.com/tahirakram/status/64797447821602816
@ReallyVirtual Damn. Unusual. Was it of Pakistan Army? about 9 hours ago via TweetDeck in reply to ReallyVirtual
https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64800262354763776
@tahirakram very likely - but it was too noisy to be a spy craft, or, a very poor spy craft it was. about 9 hours ago via TweetDeck
https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64892915167657984
@kursed Well, there were at least two copters last night, I heard one but a friend heard two, for 15-20 minutes. about 3 hours ago via TweetDeck in reply to kursed
https://twitter.com/naqvi/status/64883228590350336
i think the helicopter crash in Abbottabad, Pakistan and the President Obama breaking news address are connected. about 3 hours ago via web Retweeted by ReallyVirtual
https://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual/status/64892915167657984
Uh oh, now I'm the guy who liveblogged the Osama raid without knowing it. about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck




If they were flying in great bloody big helicopters in at 1 am I don't think it was too much of a surprise for OBL then. "Blasts" sounds like maybe some sort of stun greande? Then they shoot after entry or maybe they just killed everyone by grenade.

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 01:50 PM
If they were flying in great bloody big helicopters in at 1 am I don't think it was too much of a surprise for OBL then. "Blasts" sounds like maybe some sort of stun greande? Then they shoot after entry or maybe they just killed everyone by grenade.


A Pakistani military commentator on Sky News (aka a spokesman for ISI), just stated that there is absolutely no way that Pakistani military and intelligence agencies were kept uninformed of US helicopters conducting a raid.

Meanwhile, right-wing and military parts of cyberspace are claiming that the operation was conducted by SEALS using Blackwater helicopters and possibly personnel.

Perhaps the reality is that it was Blackwater helicopters already based in Pakistan, run by whomever has replaced hired gun Raymond Davis as the TF373/PMC death squad liaison between official US intelligence and the off-the-books operations.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 01:57 PM
http://wildfire.gigya.com/facebook/preview.aspx?fb_sig_api_key=f7667e9ebccf2157d6f15f 991a5e3ce9&wid=533468491&p=bHQ9MTMwNDM%2AMDY2ODM4NiZwdD%2AxMzA%2AMzQwNjcwMz g2JnA9MTI1ODQxMSZkPUFCQ%2A5ld3NfU%2AZQX%2AxvY2tlX% 2AVtYmVkJm49ZmFjZWJvb2smZz%2AzJm89M2ZlOTFiZWM4YTZj NDAzODljMWVjNGRjYjg3ZTUxMzImb2Y9MA%3D%3D&s=1

Video footage of inside the compound. Looks very domestic and is if he were in his bed when he was murdered.

Of course he was murdered, we are Murder Inc. It was a Fred Hampton action....come when they are asleep and kill them in bed......

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 02:03 PM
Meanwhile, right-wing and military parts of cyberspace are claiming that the operation was conducted by SEALS using Blackwater helicopters and possibly personnel.

Perhaps the reality is that it was Blackwater helicopters already based in Pakistan, run by whomever has replaced hired gun Raymond Davis as the TF373/PMC death squad liaison between official US intelligence and the off-the-books operations.

I wonder if the Blackwater boys will get the $25,000,000 bounty and split it amongst themselves?

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 02:11 PM
Bin Laden's 'burial at sea' is in keeping with the here today, gone tomorrow nature of much of the critical 9/11 evidence, right down to torture recordings destroyed and terabytes of Able Danger terrorist data-mining logs deleted on Rumsfeld's direct orders. I expect this story, fake on some, many or even all levels, to be endlessly replayed and recounted for the rest of the year.

I'm already sick of hearing Obama and Hillary repeating their vomit green words.

Dead men don't talk [the inconvenient truth] :spy:

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 02:15 PM
I wonder if the Blackwater boys will get the $25,000,000 bounty and split it amongst themselves?

Blackwater mercs are both Crusaders and Dogs of War. As we know, Blackwater's Crusader General, Erik Prince, is explicit about his religious and material motivations.

It's a win-win: the PMCs get to slaughter "infidels" and get paid a bounty (treasure).

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 02:31 PM
Let's get the official version on the record, and then watch it unravel.

So:

i) it was a "kill, not capture" mission. Ie a state sanctioned execution operation;

ii) the Pakistanis were not told in advance - "A U.S. official said Pakistani authorities were told the details of the raid after it had taken place.";

iii) it was SEALS, not PMCs (eg Blackwater, TF373) or Pakistani forces - "Members of an elite Navy Seals team dropped by helicopter";

iv) "After 40 minutes of fighting, bin Laden was among several people in the mansion killed. A source familiar with the operation said bin Laden was shot in the head. A senior U.S. official in Washington said the al Qaeda leader was killed in a firefight after he resisted the assault force."

So, officially, Osama was shot in the head for "resisting" the assault;

v) "Two officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said bin Laden was buried at sea. A third official said this was done to prevent a gravesite on land becoming a shrine for followers."

So, the bogeyman's corpse has already been dumped at sea. DNA tests? Did they take mementoes like fingers or hair (for DNA testing purposes of course....)?

vi) "Thousands of jubilant, flag-waving Americans thronged outside the White House and in the streets of New York after Obama's announcement." For the record, there are already allegations that this was a "rent-a-mob" hired and in place even before Obama had offiicially announced Bin Laden's death.

I'm sure there are more pertinent details which will unravel in the coming days and months.


U.S. forces were under orders to kill Bin Laden

By Steve Holland and Kamran Haider

WASHINGTON/ABBOTTABAD, Pakistan | Mon May 2, 2011 10:16am EDT

WASHINGTON/ABBOTTABAD, Pakistan (Reuters) - Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was killed in a U.S. helicopter raid on a mansion near the Pakistani capital Islamabad early on Monday, ending a long worldwide hunt for the mastermind of the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.

Members of an elite Navy Seals team dropped by helicopter to the compound were under orders to kill not capture bin Laden, who had eluded U.S. forces for 13 years, a senior U.S. security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Many analysts see bin Laden's death as largely symbolic since he was no longer believed to have been issuing operational orders to the many autonomous al Qaeda affiliates around the world.

Fearful of revenge attacks, the United States swiftly issued security warnings to Americans worldwide. A top Republican lawmaker briefed by the White House on bin Laden's death said U.S. security agencies were working to prevent any attacks on the United States or its installations overseas.

"This is a key moment because al Qaeda has to avenge. This is a terrible defeat for them and they have to move as quickly as they can, and it's up to us to stop them," said congressman Peter King.

Bin Laden's death is unlikely to have any impact on the nearly decade-long war in Afghanistan spawned by the September 11 attacks on Washington and New York. U.S. forces there are facing record violence by a resurgent Taliban, which has vowed to avenge his death.

President Barack Obama, whose popularity has been hit hard by rising gasoline prices, will likely see a short-term bounce in his approval ratings. But he may also come under more pressure from Americans to speed up a planned withdrawal of U.S. forces from the unpopular war in Afghanistan.

U.S. officials said bin Laden was found in a million-dollar compound in the military garrison town of Abbottabad, 35 miles north of Islamabad. After 40 minutes of fighting, bin Laden was among several people in the mansion killed.

A source familiar with the operation said bin Laden was shot in the head. A senior U.S. official in Washington said the al Qaeda leader was killed in a firefight after he resisted the assault force.

Two officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said bin Laden was buried at sea. A third official said this was done to prevent a gravesite on land becoming a shrine for followers.

"Justice has been done," Obama declared in a dramatic late-night White House speech announcing the death of the elusive head of the militant Islamic group behind a series of deadly bombings across the world.

PAKISTAN TOLD AFTER RAID

Leaders worldwide praised the killing as a dramatic success in the war against al Qaeda, a mood reflected in financial markets. The dollar and stocks rose, while oil and gold fell, on the view bin Laden's death reduced global security risks.

Thousands of jubilant, flag-waving Americans thronged outside the White House and in the streets of New York after Obama's announcement.

It was the biggest national security victory for the president since he took office in early 2009 and will make it difficult for Republicans to portray Democrats as weak on security as he seeks re-election in 2012.

In sharp contrast, on the streets of Saudi Arabia, bin Laden's native land which stripped him of his citizenship after September 11, there was a mood of disbelief and sorrow among many.

The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas mourned bin Laden as an "Arab holy warrior."

But many in the Arab world felt his death was long overdue. For many Arabs, inspired by the popular upheavals in Egypt, Libya and elsewhere over the past few months, the news of bin Laden's death had less significance than it once might have.

The operation could complicate relations with Pakistan, a key U.S. ally in the battle against militancy and the war in Afghanistan. Those ties have already been frayed over U.S. drone strikes in the west of the country and the six-week imprisonment of a CIA contractor earlier this year.

A U.S. official said Pakistani authorities were told the details of the raid after it had taken place.

The revelation bin Laden was living in style will hugely embarrass Pakistani officials, who will be under pressure to explain how he could have been right under their noses. Residents in Abbottabad said a Pakistani military training academy is near the compound.

"For some time there will be a lot of tension between Washington and Islamabad because bin Laden seems to have been living here close to Islamabad," said Imtiaz Gul, a Pakistani security analyst.

(Additional reporting by Jeff Mason, Patricia Zengerle, Arshad Mohammed, Alister Bull, Missy Ryan, Mark Hosenball, Richard Cowan, Kristin Roberts, Andrew Quinn and Tabassum Zakaria, Joanne Allen in Washington and Chris Allbritton in Islamabad; Writing by Steve Holland and Ross Colvin; editing by David Storey, Dean Yates and Jackie Frank)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-obama-statement-idUSTRE74107920110502

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 02:32 PM
I wonder if the Blackwater boys will get the $25,000,000 bounty and split it amongst themselves?

Blackwater mercs are both Crusaders and Dogs of War. As we know, Blackwater's Crusader General, Erik Prince, is explicit about his religious and material motivations.

It's a win-win: the PMCs get to slaughter "infidels" and get paid a bounty (treasure).

Almost all of the Blackwater/Xe gladiator-crusaders are former special ops guys anyway and many still maintain ACTIVE security clearances and liaison with the same people and units they did when they were more officially U.S. GIs. Blackwater/Xe and the other such are all just privatized cut-outs, the same technique [with a new twist] that has been used for decades.

I'm listening to the news [on 'better-that-average' stations] and they are listing all the last few decades of terrorist actions as though OBL did them all. If he did a few, I'd be surprised. Yes, many who did them said they were 'followers' of, or inspired by OBL....but bin Laden himself in his Jihadist half of his double-agents life was mostly the money man and philosopher/rallying point. I think he himself planned little - and certainly didn't plan the REAL events of 9-11.

He has a rather large family, some who are known to be hostile toward him; others who are not....I expect the CIA, USA, and Saudis will be doing their best to keep 'em all silent...but things will leak out, eventually.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 02:38 PM
Clinton just announced that the USA will not slow down it war on terrror (sic), nor disengage anywhere due to the events of the day.....

....and very soon someone sympathetic to OBL and what he stood for is going to release one hell of a revenge attack.....it will NOT be pretty.

And on and on the cycle will go....

Magda Hassan
05-02-2011, 02:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBPH0MW6zSs
I can't hear it on my computer tonight but it looks like the compound is burning. More destruction of evidence? The previous video of the interior looked quite intact and not burnt. So this must be subsequent if it is the same place.

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 02:50 PM
I can't hear it on my computer tonight but it looks like the compound is burning. More destruction of evidence? The previous video of the interior looked quite intact and not burnt. So this must be subsequent if it is the same place.

Apparent anomalies are appearing.

The daylight photos of an uncharred "compound" and pristine lawn don't seem to match with the nighttime footage of a blazing "compound" and of a SEAL helicopter downed at the site and subject to fierce fighting.

Also, the timescale appears subject to manipulation. No sooner did Obama announce the killing of Bin Laden than Rumsfeld tweets that the corpse has been dumped at sea. It's all happening too fast.

There are cyberspace rumours that the operation actually took place earlier in the weekend or even late last week.

Or perhaps back in 2001..... :mexican:

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 03:02 PM
Now for something completely different.....


ISLAMABAD, May 2 (Xinhua) -- Pakistani Urdu TV channel Geo News quoted Pakistani intelligence officials as saying that the world's most wanted terrorist Osama Bin Laden was killed in a search operation launched by the Pakistani forces after a Pakistani army helicopter was shot down in the wee hours of Monday in Abbotabad, a mountainous town located some 60 kilometers north of Pakistan's capital city of Islamabad.

At about 1:20 a.m. local time a Pakistani helicopter was shot down by unknown people in the Sikandarabad area of Abbotabad. The Pakistani forces launched a search operation in the nearby area and encountered with a group of unknown armed people. A fire exchange followed between the two sides.

When the fire exchange ended, the Pakistani forces arrested some Arab women and kids as well some other armed people who later confessed to the Pakistani forces they were with Osama Bin laden when the fire was exchanged and Bin Laden was killed in the firing.

Local media reported that after the dead body of Bin Laden was recovered, two U.S. helicopter flew to the site and carried away the dead body of Bin Laden.

Initial reports said that at least one was killed and two others were injured in the crash. At least two houses were engulfed by the huge fire caused by the crashed chopper.

Rescue team rushed to the site shortly after the crash was reported and the armed forces cordoned off the area and launched a search operation there.

Sources of Xinhua said they tried to enter the area after the incident took place, but no media people were allowed inside.

"No one knows in that helicopter crash Bin Laden was killed," said the sources.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-05/02/c_13854920.htm

Which, if true, would undermine the official narrative of indefatigable intelligence agents and heroic special forces...


"After midnight, a large number of commandos encircled the compound. Three helicopters were hovering overhead. All of a sudden there was firing toward the helicopters from the ground," said Nasir Khan, a resident of the town.

"There was intense firing and then I saw one of the helicopters crash," said Khan, who had watched the dramatic scene unfold from his rooftop.

Senior Pakistani security officials said the operation, carried out at around 1:30 a.m., involved both helicopters and ground troops.

A Pakistani military helicopter crashed near Abbotabad on Sunday night, killing one and wounding two, according to local media. It was unclear if the crash was related to bin Laden's death, but witnesses reported gunshots and heavy firing before one of two low-flying helicopters crashed near the military academy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110502/ts_nm/us_binladen_pakistan

Albert Doyle
05-02-2011, 03:08 PM
The US public cheers like a Nuremberg rally at a football game unaware that CIA might have been involved in organizing the attack. Easily manipulated fools. I feel like I live in a strange land.

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 03:27 PM
Meanwhile, now that the Bin Laden terrorist bogeyman has been thrust back into the public consciousness, Israel may be about to seize the moment to launch a strike on Shia Iran (who of course hated Bin Laden, but hey let's not let the details get in the way of an MSM narrative designed for idiots)....


Iranian state TV carries report of Israeli build-up
TEHRAN | Mon May 2, 2011 9:42am EDT

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian state television ran a report Monday saying Israeli military aircraft were massing at a U.S. air base in Iraq for a strike on Iran.

The report appeared on the website of Press TV. Israel said it had no knowledge of such a strike plan and Iraq's air force commander denied the Iranian report.

Press TV quoted what it said was a source close to the movement of Moqtada al-Sadr, an Iraqi Shi'ite cleric who opposes the U.S. presence in Iraq and has close ties to Iran's leaders.

Washington's ally Israel accuses Tehran of using its declared civilian nuclear reactor program to conceal a plan to develop atomic bombs that would threaten the Jewish state. Israeli leaders have not ruled out military action against Iran.

However, there has been no recent indication of increased tensions and no other information Monday to corroborate the Iranian television report.

An Israeli army spokeswoman said she had no knowledge of any such report and said the military did not comment on operational matters. Iraqi air force commander Staff Lieutenant General Anwar Ahmed rejected the report as "groundless."

"The al-Asad base (mentioned by Press TV) exists on Iraqi territory. We can never accept launching any military attack against any of the neighboring countries, whether Iran or any other country, from Iraqi lands," he told Reuters.

The United States and its Western allies suspect Iran is using its nuclear energy program as a cover to build bombs. Iran denies the allegation, insisting it needs nuclear technology to generate more electricity.

Iran has repeatedly warned that it would strike Israeli nuclear targets if Israel attacked its nuclear activities.

Iran does not recognize Israel, which it calls the "Zionist regime." Israel, believed to be the only nuclear-armed country in the Middle East, bombed Iraq's only nuclear reactor to rubble in 1981 when Saddam Hussein was in power in Baghdad.

(Reporting by Robin Pomeroy in Tehran, Ori Lewis in Jerusalem and Jim Loney in Baghdad; writing by Parisa Hafezi; Editing by Mark Heinrich)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-iran-israel-report-idUSTRE7413TC20110502

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 03:41 PM
How to create a fake (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake) image of a ghost.

Keith Millea
05-02-2011, 04:27 PM
Two top leaders within a week.It seems to me that there has to be link between the two.

26 April 2011 Last updated at 11:17 ET

Al-Qaeda 'Afghan number two' Abdul Ghani killed - Nato


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52341000/jpg/_52341869_011830461-1.jpg Nato says there are some 100 al-Qaeda members still in Afghanistan
Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13193634#story_continues_1) International forces in Afghanistan say they have killed their number two insurgent target in the country - senior al-Qaeda leader Abdul Ghani.


The Saudi citizen died in an air strike almost two weeks ago in Kunar province, near Pakistan, Nato-led forces said.

Abdul Ghani, also known as Abu Hafs al-Najdi, ran training camps and planned attacks on tribal leaders and foreigners, the Nato statement said.
Nato estimates some 100 al-Qaeda members still operate in Afghanistan.
The alliance says it has killed more than 25 al-Qaeda leaders and fighters in the past month. There is no independent confirmation of the claim.

A spokesman for the Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) would not say who was number one on the most wanted list, citing the possibility of hampering the search.

Abdul Ghani has been blamed for directing a number of high-profile attacks - including the death of Malik Zarin, a tribal leader in the east who was a close ally of President Hamid Karzai.
Zarin and nine other people were killed in a suicide attack on the same morning as the militant leader's own death.

'Significant'
Ahmed Rashid, an expert on the Taliban, told the BBC that the death of Abdul Ghani was a significant achievement for Nato.

"He's been helping organising some of the Pakistan Taliban groups on the Pakistan side of the border, and was obviously trying to do the same on the Afghan side of the border," Mr Rashid said.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52341000/gif/_52341867__52137117_kunar_3_13.04.11-1.gif
Mr Rashid said US forces had withdrawn from some of these mountainous districts, giving al-Qaeda the opportunity to fill them and try to recreate the bases they had five or six years ago.

The International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) said Abdul Ghani controlled a network of insurgents that targeted security forces outposts throughout Kunar province.

"Abdul Ghani commonly instructed subordinate leaders to conduct kidnapping operations against foreigners... and he was responsible for directing suicide bomb attacks targeting US government officials," Isaf's statement said.
Nato has been pursuing him since 2007. He is also number 23 on a Saudi list of most wanted militants.

Huge manhunt

Al-Qaeda now depends more and more on the Pakistan Taliban, Mr Rashid says, because the Afghan Taliban are less welcoming and publicly do not want to be associated with the group.

Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13193634#story_continues_2)


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13193634

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 05:33 PM
As many of the posts and posters [above] have pointed out....something is 'up', way beyond the death or non-death of OBL. The event and its timing is to provide cover for something[s] much bigger. The intelligence communities have long known where he was, if he was. Iran would make a very big target and hard to get 'at' without massive propaganda cover. There are other possibilities...such as another '911-like' event to be blamed on revenge for the death [or non-death] of OBL. Somehow, I think this summer is going to be a very ugly one....sadly...as things are so ugly now....one really can hardly imagine or want to face worse....but here it comes! :mexican: :gossip:

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 05:46 PM
AMY GOODMAN: In a televised address to the nation last night, President Barack Obama announced al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden had been killed by U.S. forces in Pakistan. Bin Laden was killed on Sunday in a U.S. operation in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad, about 60 miles north of the capital, Islamabad.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world that the United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of al-Qaeda and a terrorist who’s responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

AMY GOODMAN: Osama bin Laden was shot in the head and buried at sea. The Saudi-born leader of al-Qaeda is believed to be the mastermind of the attacks on New York and Washington on September 11, 2001, as well as a number of other attacks around the world.

Osama bin Laden’s death raises questions about the future of the U.S. war on terror and whether U.S. policy in the region will change. Almost 10 years ago, on October 7, 2001, the U.S. invaded Afghanistan in an attempt to capture bin Laden and destroy his al-Qaeda network. The war in Afghanistan has since become the longest in U.S. history and has resulted in tens of thousands of deaths. For years, the U.S. has also waged a secret war inside Pakistan.

Despite the killing of Osama bin Laden, Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard said today the war on terror will continue.

PRIME MINISTER JULIA GILLARD: Can I say, too, about the death of Osama bin Laden, that whilst al-Qaeda has been hurt today, al-Qaeda is not finished. Our war against terrorism must continue. We continue to be engaged in Afghanistan so that that country does not again become a haven for terrorists. That work will need to continue. That work has already cost Australian lives. But that work is vital, and we will continue the mission in Afghanistan.

AMY GOODMAN: To discuss the death of Osama bin Laden, we’re joined by a number of guests.

We’ll be speaking with Robert Fisk on the phone in Beirut. Robert Fisk, the longtime Middle East correspondent of The Independent newspaper in London, he was the first Western journalist to interview Osama bin Laden.

We’re also joined in New York by Jeremy Scahill, Puffin Foundation Writing Fellow at the Nation Institute, author of Blackwater: The Rise of the World’s Most Powerful Mercenary Army. He blogs at thenation.com.

We’re also joined by Allan Nairn, an award-winning investigative journalist and activist.

In London, we’re joined by Tariq Ali, the well-known author, Pakistani-born commentator.

We’re going to start with Jeremy Scahill. Jeremy, tell us what you understand—you have been following JSOC for a long time now—what you understand happened yesterday and in the last months?

JEREMY SCAHILL: Well, in a way, this operation in Pakistan was the culmination of the life’s work of General Stanley McChrystal, who headed the Joint Special Operations Command from 2003 to 2008, and was the man tasked by the Bush administration with leading a global assassination campaign of people that the administration determined to be high-value targets or terrorist threats or militant threats to the United States. The current commander of JSOC is Admiral William McRaven, who himself is a former Navy Seal. And this really is the most elite force within the U.S. military.

The individuals who we believe actually killed Osama bin Laden are reportedly members of Navy Seal Team Six, also known as the Development Group. And those are probably the most elite forces in the world. General Barry McCaffrey said these are the most dangerous people on planet earth. This operation was carried out by a drone that was overhead, 25 Seals, and then shooters that allegedly stormed this compound. The role of JSOC within the broader U.S. so-called war on terror has been a surgical strike force.

So I think you have the one story playing out, which is how this happened, and it does sound like there was some incredible detective work that took place in tracking this courier, who was Osama bin Laden’s go-to to communicate with the outside world. For five years, they were reportedly tracking the developments at this compound. Interestingly, this compound is a stone’s throw away from a Pakistani military academy. And just days ago, General Kayani, the head of Pakistan’s armed forces, actually was basically a block away from Osama bin Laden, if all of these reports are true.

On the other side of this, though, I think there’s another reaction. I found it quite disgusting to see people chanting, like it was some sort of sporting event, outside of the White House. I think it was idiotic. Let’s remember here, hundreds of thousands of people have died. Iraq was invaded, a country that had nothing to do with al-Qaeda, nothing to do with Osama bin Laden. The United States created an al-Qaeda presence in Iraq by invading it, made Iran a far more influential force in Iraq than it ever would have been. We have given a grand motivation to people around the world that want to do harm to Americans in our killing of civilians, our waging of war against countries that have no connection to al-Qaeda, and by staying in these countries long after the mission was accomplished. Al-Qaeda was destroyed in Afghanistan, forced on the run. The Taliban have no chance of retaking power in Afghanistan. And so, I think that this is a somber day where we should be remembering all of the victims, the 3,000 people that died in the United States and then the hundreds of thousands that died afterwards as a result of a U.S. response to this that should have been a law enforcement response and instead was to declare war on the world.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk, Jeremy, about what you understand did take place in this—not place in the frontier—

JEREMY SCAHILL: Right.

AMY GOODMAN:—on the border, the tribal lands between Pakistan and Afghanistan, but in a mansion in a city of 500,000 next to a military academy?

JEREMY SCAHILL: This is a very big problem for Pakistan’s government, because had Osama bin Laden been captured in an area that the Pakistani government didn’t have control of, there would have been a very different narrative that would have unfolded. You already see right-wing commentators, Bush—former Bush officials, really ratcheting up their rhetoric about Pakistan. And the fact that he was captured in what was essentially a town equivalent to Vale, Colorado, a vacation town, really shows that he must have had some sort of protection from the Pakistani state in order to live for so long, at least five years, it seems, in this location, rather than being in a cave somewhere.

The way that this operation went down, if in fact it is confirmed that it was the Joint Special Operations Command coming in from Afghanistan, goes back to an agreement that General McChrystal brokered with then-President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan that allowed what was called a "hot pursuit" clause, which authorized U.S. Special Operations forces to go into Pakistan from Afghanistan if they were in pursuit of Osama bin Laden or other al-Qaeda leaders. And the agreement was that the U.S. could do those operations as long as the Pakistani government could then deny it. And so, it seems as though this operation was, at least in part, launched from Afghanistan into Pakistan, President Obama chairing five National Security Council meetings about this specific operation.

So, I think that, you know, there’s going to be a lot of celebrating within the Special Ops community for having taken down the man that was identified as the number one target of this operation. And it shows that President Obama has really continued and doubled down on the Bush administration policy of targeted assassination leading the way in terms of America’s response to al-Qaeda and to people it designates as so-called terrorists.

AMY GOODMAN: And the news of how Osama bin Laden died?

JEREMY SCAHILL: Well, that’s interesting. Allan and I were talking before the show about this, and I’d be interested in hearing what he has to say. The phrasing that President Obama used was very interesting. I mean, we’ll have to see before, I think, we give any detailed commentary on it. They said there was a firefight there. They said someone used a woman as a human shield at some point during the operation. It sounds like Osama bin Laden was shot in the head. Navy Seals are the most highly trained forces within the U.S. military. It wouldn’t be surprising that they could sniper shoot him from a distance and hit him dead between his eyes. Maybe something else went down. I don’t—we don’t know what happened inside of that compound, but it does sound like he was shot directly in the head.

AMY GOODMAN: And buried at sea.

JEREMY SCAHILL: And then—they say buried at sea. I’m not sure exactly what that means, if they took him down deep into the sea and buried him or if they just dumped his body. I mean, who—we don’t know.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to go to break and come back, and we’ll be joined by Talat Hamdani. Talat Hamdani lost her son, 9/11. She is the mother of Mohammed Salman Hamdani. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. We’ll also be joined by Matthew Hoh, highest-level diplomat to have quit amidst the war in Afghanistan. This is Democracy Now! Back in a minute.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 06:06 PM
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to bring Allan Nairn into this conversation. Your response to the news and what you think this could mean? Could this mean the end of the U.S. war with Afghanistan?

ALLAN NAIRN: I don’t think it will. It should. It definitely should be an occasion for rethinking everything on a much bigger scale than Afghanistan.

The first thing that struck me was seeing the Americans out in the streets celebrating outside the White House, outside the old World Trade Center site, people cheering, people exultant. And while some of that may come from bloodlust, I think a lot of it comes from a sense of justice. People like justice. They want to see it. And in this case, I think many people have the feeling, well, he got what he deserved. This was a man who had massacred civilians; he got what he deserved. And there’s a lot of truth to that. But if we recognize that someone who is willing to kill civilians en masse, someone who is willing to send young people out with weapons and bombs to, as President Obama put it, see to it that a family doesn’t have a loved one sitting at the dinner table anymore, see to it that a child and a parent never meet again, if we say that someone like that deserves to die, then we have to follow through on that idea, and we have to recognize, OK, if these things really are so enormous, we have to stop them. Killing bin Laden does not stop them. Bin Laden is dead, but the world is still governed by bin Ladens. People cheer because they thought they saw justice, but this was not justice delivered by—a kind of rough justice delivered by victims. This was one killer killing another, a big killer, the United States government, killing another, someone who’s actually a smaller one, bin Laden. And the bin Laden doctrine that, to take out the CIA office that was at the World Trade Center, it’s OK to blow up the whole World Trade Center, to teach Americans a lesson, it’s OK to slaughter thousands of Americans—that doctrine lives on in the American White House, in the American Pentagon. You know, every day—and in seats of authority all over the world.

Every day, the U.S., directly with its own forces, or indirectly through its proxy forces, its clients, is killing, at a minimum, dozens of people. I mean, just since Obama came in, in the one limited area of drone strikes in Pakistan, something like 1,900 have been killed just under Obama. And that started decades before 9/11. We have to stop these people, these powerful people like Obama, like Bush, like those who run the Pentagon, and who think it’s OK to take civilian life. And it doesn’t seem that they can be stopped by normal, routine politics, because under the American system, as in most other systems, people don’t even know this is happening. People know the face of bin Laden. They know the evil deeds that he’s done. They see that he is dead, and they say, "Oh, great, we killed bin Laden." But they don’t see the other 20, 30, 50, 100 people who the U.S. killed that day, many of them children, many of them civilians. If they did, they probably wouldn’t be out in the street cheering about those deaths.

We’ve got to stop this practice. And Americans aren’t doing it. Egyptians, Tunisians are doing their part. They’ve risen up against the repression they face. I think we need an American uprising, if we’re to put a stop to this kind of killing of innocent people. And we need an American Romero, someone like Archbishop Romero of Salvador, who, in the face of massacres, of daily massacres of what in the end was more than 70,000 Salvadorans, stood up and said to the army of his country, "Stop the repression. Defy your orders to kill, because there’s a higher principle." About a little more than a week ago, I was in El Salvador and visited Romero’s old home, which I had never been to before, and saw that on his bookshelf he had Why Not the Best?, a campaign book by Jimmy Carter, which he had apparently been reading. Romero wrote to Jimmy Carter in his capacity as the archbishop in 1980, asking Carter to stop supporting the Salvadoran military that was slaughtering his people. And from what I know of Romero, he probably really believed that Carter would respond. He didn’t. Carter kept sending the aid. And within weeks, Romero himself was assassinated by death squad, that had originated from U.S. backing. Writing letters didn’t work in that case. And it doesn’t work here. You know, we’ve got to put a stop to this. Bin Laden is dead. And bin-Ladenism, if you want to call it that, should die also.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to break and come back to this discussion. Allan Nairn, award-winning journalist. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. When we come back, we’re going to be joined by a former Defense Intelligence Agency analyst. Stay with us.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 06:12 PM
AMY GOODMAN: We’re going right now to Islamabad to the journalist Mosharraf Zaidi, who was tweeting yesterday early, before all this news came out, asking questions like why was a U.S. helicopter down. We’re hoping that we have him on the line. Mohammed—ah, it looks like we just lost him. We’ll try to get him in a minute.

Tariq Ali is with us in Britain. Tariq, your response to what has taken place?

TARIQ ALI: Amy, what is quite astonishing is that it took them such a long time. The news is that he was in a safe house which is literally next door to the Kakul military academy, one of the most heavily protected areas in the country. And the notion that this was a secret from Pakistan’s military intelligence is risible. It’s just not believable. I think the fact that he was there, the fact that they knew he was there—so the question that is intriguing me is how this information was got. I don’t take at face value—you know, I take at face value what they’re saying, that it was a courier they had been tracking. I don’t believe that. I think that the information came from within Pakistan’s military intelligence. And what was the pressure put to get it from them? I think the Pakistanis were informed that this was going to happen. The Pakistan’s leadership was already, with [inaudible], celebrating the event—the Prime Minister Zardari, Karzai in Kabul. So, I think they had been planning it. The timing is a mystery, why they did it exactly at this moment, given that they’ve known that he was there. So, that’s my first reaction.

The second reaction is, of course, as Jeremy has also said, that it’s far better when these things are done legally, because to show that state terrorism is more powerful than individual terrorism is bizarre. I mean, everyone knows that the United States is more powerful than virtually the rest of the world put together, so we don’t need a demonstration of that. What we needed, which Obama didn’t talk about, was: why wasn’t he captured alive—they could have done that if they knew where he was; the Pakistanis could have been told to do that—and tried in a court of law? That would have been genuinely educative and revelatory. To try him, to prove him guilty, and then to imprison him, or whatever.

AMY GOODMAN: Tariq Ali, we have just—

TARIQ ALI: But they didn’t go down that route.

AMY GOODMAN: Tariq, we’ve just gotten Mosharraf Zaidi on, and I want to make sure—

TARIQ ALI: OK.

AMY GOODMAN:—we get him in from Islamabad. Mosharraf, you were early on tweeting that a U.S. helicopter had gone down yesterday. This is before we knew anything about Osama bin Laden being dead. What is the latest you understand, especially of Pakistani involvement in the killing of Osama bin Laden? And what is the reaction today in Islamabad?

MOSHARRAF ZAIDI: Thanks, Amy. I’m actually driving from Abbottabad to Islamabad right now, after having spent the better part of a day there. The helicopter fell—apparently fell on a—during the operation, on the compound. There’s a little plot of land on which bin Laden was living, that was—

There’s been a kind of a—we got an implicit denial by the Pakistani government in its official statement about, you know, Pakistan being intricately involved in this. But the notion of there not having been any involvement by Pakistan in this, it doesn’t—it rings nonsensical and a little bit far-fetched. The city, Abbottabad, is—it’s a garrison town that was founded by a British major in 1853. It’s kind of a hill station. A lot of people enjoy the weather there during the summers, and so people have sort of a dual residence. Abbottabad itself is the largest urban area between the Punjab province, which is the largest province in Pakistan, and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, which is a province—it’s the Pashtun province. It’s the province in which so much of the insecurity that’s been happening in Pakistan is sourced. The specific neighborhood is a reasonably sort of middle-class, upper-middle-class neighborhood. The house is said to have been electronically sensed and well guarded.

The idea that bin Laden got from Tora Bora to that house over the last seven or eight years without a single element of the Pakistani state knowing about it just doesn’t ring true. What rings even more hollow is the notion that somehow U.S. military choppers and gunships could fly into Pakistan undetected, [inaudible] and hover above the house, have one of the choppers crash, have perhaps another chopper end up there, kill bin Laden, take a few people there, capture them, and fly them away—and all of this could happen without any coordination, any kind of approval or any kind of data or information sharing with the Pakistani security establishment or the Pakistani state. It just sounds like [inaudible] a flight of somebody’s fancy.

AMY GOODMAN: And the plane that went down yesterday, the helicopter, the U.S. helicopter, though they said no one died in that crash?

MOSHARRAF ZAIDI: That’s right. We heard that there were no casualties. Nobody—as far as I know, nobody has actually seen the wreckage so far. People did hear a massive blast. And there are reports locally and internationally there that a helicopter had fallen there. Originally, we were told that that helicopter was a Pakistani helicopter. Today, it’s—the line has been that they were both U.S. helicopters. Sources in Pakistan that are reasonably trustworthy confirmed that they’re U.S. helicopters. Some people say two, others say four. But the compound itself, the location where this happened, and the fact that a helicopter went down, again—allegedly a helicopter went down—suggests that, you know, this was a Pentagon operation that wouldn’t have been possible without the support of parts of the Pakistani state.

AMY GOODMAN: Jeremy Scahill?

JEREMY SCAHILL: Also, on the issue of the helicopter, I mean, we understand that it was what’s called a Little Bird helicopter, which is a very lightweight helicopter that Blackwater types and JSOC types have often used in Iraq and, to an extent, in Afghanistan. The reports are that it was then destroyed by the U.S. forces after it went down. And the official line is that it was a mechanical failure. There are other reports that say that it was brought down by some kind of arms fire from within the compound, and we probably won’t know that. I would concur with what Mosharraf is saying. I mean, the idea that U.S. Special Ops forces are operating in Pakistan without the knowledge of the Pakistani government is, in fact, ludicrous. And that’s why, when this deal was originally brokered by Musharraf and McChrystal, the public posture had to be that the Pakistanis would deny it.

Let’s remember, too, that this killing of Osama bin Laden takes place just months after Raymond Davis, who was a man who straddled the world of both the CIA and Special Operations forces, killed two men in Lahore, Pakistan, and then, after weeks of controversy, was eventually taken out of the country after payments were made to the families of his victims. One of the things that Raymond Davis is suspected of having done inside of Pakistan was having communications with people in the tribal areas, but also potentially targeting Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is a terrorist organization behind the Mumbai bombings that has been designated by the U.S. as a state sponsor of terrorism and that the U.S. accuses of having very close ties to the ISI. So, the timing of this operation coming as soon as it did after this epic scandal with Raymond Davis, perhaps the most serious crisis between Pakistan and U.S. governments in a decade, or maybe even since the ransacking of the U.S. embassy in Islamabad in 1979, is curious, to say the least.

But I think there’s two questions here. Were the Pakistanis giving sanctuary to Osama bin Laden in this town that Mosharraf has just described, a heavily populated town with big military presence? And what was the full role of the Pakistani government in ultimately killing Osama bin Laden? Because it was Special Ops forces and not the CIA, it would indicate that there had to have been very high-level discussions between the U.S. and Pakistan about this, but the Obama administration says no intelligence was shared with any government, including the Pakistani. So this mystery, I think, is going to continue to deepen.

AMY GOODMAN: Mosharraf, has—on the ground, the response in Pakistan?

MOSHARRAF ZAIDI: Amy, the response here is, at least to the people that I spoke to—and I had the chance to speak to a couple of sort of, you know, bloggers, IT professionals, a few students who are studying to be software engineers, and then a few ordinary folk that were just walking around the neighborhood where this happened, who were either from the neighborhood or work in that neighborhood. I think the one word that I would use to describe the sentiment was "bewilderment." I mean, there was less sort of substantive, you know, content than reaction. It was more that—you know, the sense of bewilderment that—how could this happen? How could bin Laden have been living in our neighborhood, so close to us for all this time? And then, how could this—you know, this sort of quite grand operation, and ostensibly successful operation, had taken place? People feel as though they’re starstruck by the fact that they eyes and ears of the world are now very intently focused on the city of Abbottabad.

Trowbridge H. Ford
05-02-2011, 06:59 PM
Just when support for Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden was reaching their lowest support in the Islamic world, Washington conspired to assassinate someone who could be he in the hope of turning the tide about what is going on there, thanks to the Raymond Davis scandal, the breakout of hundreds of Taliban operatives in Afghanistan, and the cock-up over the assassination of Qaddafi.

Washington was not sure that it finally had him cornered, but killed him to make sure - what resulted in the target being so destroyed that it could not stand any inspection, and resulting in his being conveniently buried at sea.

Of course, if it had been Osama, it would have been much better to bring him back alive, and render him harmless but the gung-ho Americans could not take the risk of his being exposed as another fraud.

One just hopes that America's leadership stops running for running its empire rather than just engage in continuing conspiracies to keep the electorate on edge, and looking for a winner.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 07:00 PM
Chris Hedges Speaks on Osama bin Laden’s Death
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/chris_hedges_speaks_on_osama_bin_ladens_death_2011 0502/
Posted on May 1, 2011

Chris Hedges made these remarks about Osama bin Laden’s death at a Truthdig fundraising event (http://www.truthdig.com/dinner) in Los Angeles on Sunday evening.

I know that because of this announcement, that reportedly Osama bin Laden was killed, Bob wanted me to say a few words about it … about al-Qaida. I spent a year of my life covering al-Qaida for The New York Times. It was the work in which I, and other investigative reporters, won the Pulitzer Prize. And I spent seven years of my life in the Middle East. I was the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times. I’m an Arabic speaker. And when someone came over and told Jean and me the news, my stomach sank. I’m not in any way naïve about what al-Qaida is. It’s an organization that terrifies me. I know it intimately.

But I’m also intimately familiar with the collective humiliation that we have imposed on the Muslim world. The expansion of military occupation that took place throughout, in particular the Arab world, following 9/11—and that this presence of American imperial bases, dotted, not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Doha—is one that has done more to engender hatred and acts of terror than anything ever orchestrated by Osama bin Laden.

And the killing of bin Laden, who has absolutely no operational role in al-Qaida—that’s clear—he’s kind of a spiritual mentor, a kind of guide … he functions in many of the ways that Hitler functioned for the Nazi Party. We were just talking with Warren about Kershaw’s great biography of Hitler, which I read a few months ago, where you hold up a particular ideological ideal and strive for it. That was bin Laden’s role. But all actual acts of terror, which he may have signed off on, he no way planned.

I think that one of the most interesting aspects of the whole rise of al-Qaida is that when Saddam Hussein … I covered the first Gulf War, went into Kuwait with the 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, was in Basra during the Shiite uprising until I was captured and taken prisoner by the Iraqi Republican Guard. I like to say I was embedded with the Iraqi Republican Guard. Within that initial assault and occupation of Kuwait, bin Laden appealed to the Saudi government to come back and help organize the defense of his country. And he was turned down. And American troops came in and implanted themselves on Muslim soil.

When I was in New York, as some of you were, on 9/11, I was in Times Square when the second plane hit. I walked into The New York Times, I stuffed notebooks in my pocket and walked down the West Side Highway and was at Ground Zero four hours later. I was there when Building 7 collapsed. And I watched as a nation drank deep from that very dark elixir of American nationalism … the flip side of nationalism is always racism, it’s about self-exaltation and the denigration of the other.

And it’s about forgetting that terrorism is a tactic. You can’t make war on terror. Terrorism has been with us since Sallust wrote about it in the Jugurthine wars. And the only way to successfully fight terrorist groups is to isolate [them], isolate those groups, within their own societies. And I was in the immediate days after 9/11 assigned to go out to Jersey City and the places where the hijackers had lived and begin to piece together their lives. I was then very soon transferred to Paris, where I covered all of al-Qaida’s operations in the Middle East and Europe.

So I was in the Middle East in the days after 9/11. And we had garnered the empathy of not only most of the world, but the Muslim world who were appalled at what had been done in the name of their religion. And we had major religious figures like Sheikh Tantawi, the head of al-Azhar—who died recently—who after the attacks of 9/11 not only denounced them as a crime against humanity, which they were, but denounced Osama bin Laden as a fraud … someone who had no right to issue fatwas or religious edicts, no religious legitimacy, no religious training. And the tragedy was that if we had the courage to be vulnerable, if we had built on that empathy, we would be far safer and more secure today than we are.

We responded exactly as these terrorist organizations wanted us to respond. They wanted us to speak the language of violence. What were the explosions that hit the World Trade Center, huge explosions and death above a city skyline? It was straight out of Hollywood. When Robert McNamara in 1965 began the massive bombing campaign of North Vietnam, he did it because he said he wanted to “send a message” to the North Vietnamese—a message that left hundreds of thousands of civilians dead.

These groups learned to speak the language we taught them. And our response was to speak in kind. The language of violence, the language of occupation—the occupation of the Middle East, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—has been the best recruiting tool al-Qaida has been handed. If it is correct that Osama bin Laden is dead, then it will spiral upwards with acts of suicidal vengeance. And I expect most probably on American soil. The tragedy of the Middle East is one where we proved incapable of communicating in any other language than the brute and brutal force of empire.

And empire finally, as Thucydides understood, is a disease. As Thucydides wrote, the tyranny that the Athenian empire imposed on others it finally imposed on itself. The disease of empire, according to Thucydides, would finally kill Athenian democracy. And the disease of empire, the disease of nationalism … these of course are mirrored in the anarchic violence of these groups, but one that locks us in a kind of frightening death spiral. So while I certainly fear al-Qaida, I know its intentions. I know how it works. I spent months of my life reconstructing every step Mohamed Atta took. While I don’t in any way minimize their danger, I despair. I despair that we as a country, as Nietzsche understood, have become the monster that we are attempting to fight.

Thank you.

Keith Millea
05-02-2011, 07:06 PM
Deleted:

We were on the same wavelength Peter.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 07:33 PM
The SPIN now is the that [contrary to earlier reports from those who would know!] the troops were trying to 'take' OBL alive, but he put up too much resistance and even held one of his wives in front of himself...so they all had to be killed. :spy: angryfire

It will no doubt morph further...whatever lie is needed to keep the Sheeple sheeple.

Malcolm Pryce
05-02-2011, 08:29 PM
And in an extraordinary show of cross-cultural sensitivity they laid on a US naval warship to give their victim a burial at sea in accordance with his religious views. Is this common practice for special forces assassination squads? :)

Keith Millea
05-02-2011, 08:35 PM
We don't REALLY know if he was buried at sea...

Got Proof!! :mexican:

Ed Jewett
05-02-2011, 08:40 PM
Sent to me by a friend who is in sync but non-resident here...:


On this day in history, May 2 2011, 03:56 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/3571497.stm

1945: Germany announces Hitler is dead May 1st

Adolf Hitler has been killed at the Reich Chancery in Berlin, according to Hamburg radio.

Hitler and Eva Braun were also married on April 29th of the same year. The same anniversary as the recent "Royal Wedding"

Now it's "announced" that Bin Laden is dead 66 years to the day Hitler was "announced" dead.

But I'm sure it's all just coincidence ... go back to sleep Amerika.

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 08:43 PM
Sent to me by a friend who is in sync but non-resident here...:


On this day in history, May 2 2011, 03:56 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/s...000/3571497.stm

1945: Germany announces Hitler is dead May 1st

Adolf Hitler has been killed at the Reich Chancery in Berlin, according to Hamburg radio.

Hitler and Eva Braun were also married on April 29th of the same year. The same anniversary as the recent "Royal Wedding"

Now it's "announced" that Bin Laden is dead 66 years to the day Hitler was "announced" dead.

But I'm sure it's all just coincidence ... go back to sleep Amerika.

Good 'catch' there!....everything is a coincidence :dance:

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 08:47 PM
We don't REALLY know if he was buried at sea...

Got Proof!! :mexican:

Oh, They will tell us the DNA samples matched....but there is no way to prove it; even prove there were any DNA samples sampled. It is all too suspicious - no photos and no body...no independent witnesses [there might be some, but they are being 'held' and I don't expect they'll ever speak.....likely have heart attacks or commit suicide, etc. We have really become a monster of an Empire! But in the Colosseum, the crowds bay for more blood, and applaud! If they only knew how they were being deceived. :gossip:

Oh, almost forgot....the current 'official reason' why he was dumped into the sea is that the 'felt' that no nation would want him in time for the usual need to 'bury' the dead in Islam within 24 hours. If you believe that, I have a WTC complex to sell you.....if asked, there would have been fights over all the people wanting the honor to bury him near them...and how about his family....
....family...shamily....he was an 'Islamoterrorist' and we don't care about his family...we even killed some of his family...the rest are under detention....don't expect to see them anytime soon.

Jan Klimkowski
05-02-2011, 09:01 PM
Attached is a graphic of the "compound".

Architecturally, it looks like it was designed to keep a VIP under secure, but reasonably comfortable, house arrest.

Wait a minute.... :unclesam:

Peter Lemkin
05-02-2011, 09:11 PM
Attached is a graphic of the "compound".

Architecturally, it looks like it was designed to keep a VIP under secure, but reasonably comfortable, house arrest.

Wait a minute.... :unclesam:

Glad to see the satellite dish on the roof.....no doubt for getting Fox TV :pinkelephant:..... They are now growling at the Pakistani's as knowing where he was all along....as if if they did, we didn't....what a joke!

Oh and there was due legal process....I heard Obama state clearly, that after they shot him in the head the special forces 'took possession of his body'....there! Nice and legal! If we do it, its legal! Get it?! And the 'Islamic funeral rights' given the body [whoever it was - if anyone] was done in ENGLISH...you couldn't make this stuff up!....

In Phase I, we have now conservatively murdered one million people in our 'War on Terror' (sic)....which I firmly believe we invented, trained, and false-flagged. We are now in Phase II.... :what:

...sadly no more OBL videotapes.....I suggest we just declare victory and go home with all of our troops and spies / black ops guys. We won: the 'war'; the hearts and minds; the moral high ground; our own loss of freedoms; a million lives.....yup!....declare victory and quit.

Jonathan Mark
05-02-2011, 09:20 PM
Flyby News (http://www.flybynews.com/)
Editor - Jonathan Mark
02 May 2011 - Obama, Dead Osama bin Laden, and fake photos (http://www.flybynews.com/cgi-local/newspro/viewnews.cgi?newsid1304367289,94806,)



2503


"9/11 Truth is a very important issue with the power
to bring lasting change to our country."

William Sloane Coffin



Editor's Notes: The timing of the dead Osama bin Laden parade is more than interesting. It could be a set-up for the next false flag operation to continue the horrendous war for terror conspiracy. This way they could say that al Qaida responded to Obama's assassination of Osama. Of course they won't make it sound that confusing. It was interesting to note the gullibility of such gate-keepers as Democracy Now -- buried at sea.. The thread on 911blogger explains more on my response to this. Note the link on David Ray Griffin's book on this subject. We must pay attention to the timing of all this.. First the Birther certificate surfaces. Obama jokes at the Washington journalist event about what is next . . . will Donald Trump question that the moon landing was faked. Then comes the switch of the military and CIA personnel, then WiliLeaks outing the human rights violations at Guantanamo Bay, then comes the killing of Osama ahead of the 10th anniversary. You can see why I wonder about what's next.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
CRITICAL BREAKING NEWS

02 May 2011 - AP - 911blogger
Sources: Al-Qaida head bin Laden dead (http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-01/sources-al-qaida-head-bin-laden-dead)

2009 - Google Books - David Ray Griffin
Osama bin Laden: dead or alive? (http://books.google.com/books?id=Xb9v0ucRJAEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Osama+bin+laden+griffin&source=bl&ots=_oor6qTkWQ&sig=i7AVmdKY8mNXikHtnDZdvDBUjvM&hl=en&ei=pI2-TerVMaPY0QH12PnQBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=dead&f=false)

02 May 2011 - El Publico - 911blogger
Spanish press:
bin Laden dead photo a fake (http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-02/spanish-press-bin-laden-dead-foto-fake-0)

26 April 2011 - Washington's Blog
Four Stories This Week Prove that
the War On Terror Is a Farce (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/04/4-stories-this-week-prove-that-war-on.html)

25 April 2011 - The Guardian - Common Dreams
WIKILEAKS Lift Lid on
Gitmo's Nefarious History (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/04/25-1)

27 April 2011 - Cageprisoners - Andy Worthington
The Hidden Horrors of WikiLeaks' Guantánamo Files (http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2011/04/27/the-hidden-horrors-of-wikileaks-guantanamo-files/)

25 April 2011 - Veterans for Peace - Press Release
Obama Declares Manning Guilty Before Trial (http://www.veteransforpeace.org/news_detail.php?idx=61)

28 April 2011 - Democracy Now - Ray McGovern
Petraeus Will Expand Pro-War
Agenda as New CIA Director (http://www.democracynow.org/2011/4/28/former_cia_analyst_ray_mcgovern_petraeus)

25 April 2011 - Truthdig - Chris Hedges
The Corporate State Wins Again (http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/25-1)

Space for Peace & September 11 (http://www.flybynews.com/cgi-local/newspro/viewnews.cgi?newsid1247687889,9783,)
Connecting dots to democracy or to genocide

NYC Stand for Truth on Tenth Anniversary of 9/11 (http://www.nycfor911truth.com/)

=============================

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you,
then they fight you, then you win.

Mohandas Gandhi
=============================

Flyby News is educational and nonviolent in focus,
and has supported critical campaigns for a healthy
environment, human rights, justice, and nonviolence,
since the launch of NASA's Cassini space probe in 1997.

News Fit to Transmit in the Post Cassini Flyby Era

= = = www.FlybyNews.com (http://www.flybynews.com/) = = =

Dawn Meredith
05-02-2011, 11:06 PM
Dead? Again? I wonder whose body they'll use? Maybe he's been in the deep freezer until needed. Maybe they'll use a double. Maybe they'll have tiny pieces of something. In any case just another side show. :pinkelephant:
Really. They have photos but press is saying they are not recognized as OBL. We're just supposed to believe that they made a DNA match this fast.
This also happened just after they killed an innocent son and grandchildren...
Dawn

Steve Franklin
05-03-2011, 12:33 AM
Let's face it. Barack Obama is either the dumbest person ever to walk the face of the earth, or he's a pathological liar. I vote for the latter.

Keith Millea
05-03-2011, 01:01 AM
Let's face it. Barack Obama is either the dumbest person ever to walk the face of the earth, or he's a pathological liar. I vote for the latter.

I think he's gonna learn what the meaning of "Blowback" is now.

Magda Hassan
05-03-2011, 01:04 AM
Did latest Wikileaks revelations force U.S. to take out Bin Laden?



By Neil Sears (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=Neil+Sears)
Last updated at 12:27 AM on 3rd May 2011

Controversial: The Wikileaks site, founded by Julian Assange, has been attacked by countries for its publication of secret documents

Wikileaks may have triggered the killing of Osama Bin Laden, it was suggested last night.
For although the CIA has thought since September that he was in hiding in Abbottabad, special forces stormed his fortress only days after the website published new secret documents.
These made reference to named ‘couriers’ carrying Bin Laden’s message to his followers, and also to Abbottabad as a possible Al Qaeda bolthole.

America has already revealed that it was led to Bin Laden by tracking a man identified as his key courier.
When that courier was found in Abbottabad, the CIA began surveillance that led to the raid.
As a result, last night it was suggested the operation had to be launched before Bin Laden knew the game was up.
The theory is based on a leaked U.S. Defence Department assessment of Guantanamo Bay prisoner Abu Faraj al-Libi, 40.

The assessment, currently available on the internet, was among information first released to newspapers including the Guardian and the Telegraph, and identifies al-Libi as an operational chief of Al Qaeda, and long-term close associate of Bin Laden.
After working at the centre of the terror network in Afghanistan for more than a decade, al-Libi fled to Pakistan following the Allied conquest of Kabul in November 2001.
The top secret document claims: ‘In July 2003 In July 2003, al-Libi received a letter from Osama Bin Laden’s designated courier, Maulawi Abd al-Khaliq Jan, requesting detainee take on the responsibility of collecting donations, organizing travel, and distributing funds to families in Pakistan.

More...



Obama watched Bin Laden die on live video as shoot-out beamed to White House (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382859/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Obama-watched-Al-Qaeda-leader-die-live-video-White-House.html)
U.S. steps up security as CIA warns Al Qaeda will 'almost certainly' try to avenge Bin Laden's death (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382741/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-CIA-warns-Al-Qaeda-certainly-avenge-death.html)
Will cutting off the snake's head kill Al Qaeda? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382760/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-3-commanders-expected-control-Al-Qaeda.html)
Buried at sea: How Bin Laden's body was washed by U.S. military and cast into the water from an aircraft carrier (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382828/Osama-bin-Laden-Why-given-traditional-Islamic-burial.html)
Obama blocked plot to bomb Bin Laden's lair FOUR months ago - because he wanted to have DNA proof he was dead (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382798/Osama-Bin-Laden-killed-Obama-vetoed-plan-stealth-bombers-hit-compound.html)
A life of luxury next door to Pakistan's Sandhurst: So how could military chiefs claim they knew nothing about Bin Laden's whereabouts? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382773/Bin-Laden-What-does-mean-US-Pakistan-relations.html)
Bin Laden: Is this the coup that rescued Obama’s presidency? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382722/Osama-bin-Laden-assassination-Coup-rescued-Obamas-presidency.html)
'I've been waiting for this for 10 years': Relatives of Britons killed in 9/11 and 7/7 attacks say Bin Laden's death has finally brought closure (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382677/Osama-bin-Laden-death-brings-closure-relatives-9-11-7-7-victims.html)
Hate preacher warns of another 7/7 attack as Cameron says UK needs to be 'particularly vigilant in weeks ahead' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382644/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-David-Cameron-warns-UK-particularly-vigilant.html)


‘Osama Bin Laden stated al-Libi would be the official messenger between Bin Laden and others in Pakistan.
‘In mid-2003, al-Libi moved his family to Abbottabad, and worked between Abbottabad and Peshawar.’
Al-Libi remained living in Abbottabad until 2004, the document continues, before moving within Pakistan and eventually being captured by Pakistani special forces the following year. He was then handed to the Americans, who continue to detain him to this day.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/03/article-1382908-0BDFAC6800000578-972_468x286.jpg Compound: Reports are suggesting that the attack on Bin Laden and his lair was triggered by the latest revelations on the Wikileaks website



Although the document does not suggest Bin Laden has hidden in Abbottabad, it clearly identifies the city as known to the Americans as a possible Al Qaeda leadership bolthole, and identifies by name several couriers.
It is not yet clear whether the named couriers are those who did indeed lead the CIA to Bin Laden – but even so the document could have provided evidence for Al Qaeda that the net was closing in.
US diplomatic memos about corruption in the Middle-East, published by Wikileaks, have been linked to the violent uprisings across the region.
The document in the current controversy also says al-Libi is a senior Al Qaida member who as well as long years fighting in Afghanistan – he went on Al Jazeera and ‘bragged he killed approximately 100 Americans in Afghanistan in 200’ - also helped control anti-American attacks in Iraq, and claimed to have 50 suicide bombers waiting for martyrdom.
As well as claims that al-Libi headed an operation to hide remote control bombs in children’s Sega computer games, the document also features the chilling suggestion that if Bin Laden was killed, Al Qaeda planned to detonate a nuclear bomb in its possession – a bomb said to be kept in Europe.
Wikileaks, headed by Julian Assange, has faced attacks from around the world, particularly America, for its publication of leaked secret documents.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382908/Osama-Bin-Laden-Death-Did-latest-Wikileaks-revelations-force-U-S-out.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Magda Hassan
05-03-2011, 01:36 AM
More from Tariq Ali.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2011/05/02/tariq-ali/who-told-them-where-he-was/
Who told them where he was?
Tariq Ali 2 May 2011

A US Special Forces operation in Pakistan has taken out Osama bin Laden
and a few others. He was in a safe house close to Kakul Military Academy
(Pakistan?s Sandhurst). The only interesting question is who betrayed
his whereabouts and why. The leak could only have come from the ISI and,
if this is the case, which I?m convinced it is, then General Kayani, the
military boss of the country, must have green-lighted the decision. What
pressure was put on him will come out sooner or later. The event took me
back to a conversation I had a few years ago.

In 2006 on my way back from Lahore I encountered an acquaintance from my
youth. Shamefacedly he confessed that he was a senior intelligence
officer on his way to a European conference to discuss better ways of
combating terrorism. The following conversation (a lengthier version can
be found in The Duel: Pakistan on the Flightpath of American Power) ensued:

?Is OBL still alive??
He didn?t reply.
?When you don?t reply,? I said, ?I?ll assume the answer is yes.?
I repeated the question. He didn?t reply.
?Do you know where he is??
He burst out laughing.
?I don?t, and even if I did, do you think I?d tell you??
?No, but I thought I?d ask anyway. Does anyone else know where he is??
He shrugged his shoulders.
I insisted: ?Nothing in our wonderful country is ever a secret.
Someone must know.?
?Three people know. Possibly four. You can guess who they are.?
I could. ?And Washington??
?They don?t want him alive.?
?And your boys can?t kill him??
?Listen friend, why should we kill the goose that lays the golden
eggs??

Now the Americans have killed the goose themselves. What was the bounty
promised and to whom? Would that they also now brought to an end the war
and occupation that was supposedly fought to take out Osama and that has
already led to civilian casualties that are, at the very least, four
times higher than the casualties of Twin Towers. Will they? Like hell
they will.

Magda Hassan
05-03-2011, 01:45 AM
So we get photos of Obama and the gang watching the raid as it unfolded but we don't get to watch it ourselves? The revolution will not be televised.

President Obama was watching on a TV screen as a commando gunned down Osama Bin Laden. Via a video camera fixed to the helmet of a U.S. Navy Seal, the leader of the free world saw the terror chief shot in the left eye.

The Seal then carried out what is known in the military as a ‘double tap’ – shooting him again, probably in the chest, to make certain he was dead. The footage of the battle in Bin Laden’s Pakistani hideout – relayed to the White House by satellite – is said to show one of his wives acting as a human shield to protect him as he blasted away with an AK47 assault rifle.
She died, along with three other men, including one of Bin Laden’s sons. Within hours, the Al Qaeda leader’s body was buried at sea.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/03/article-1382859-0BE03DE700000578-150_964x642.jpg Intense: President Obama, Vice President Joe Biden and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, alongside other Security staff, watch the mission unfold at the White House





http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/03/article-1382859-0BE03DB700000578-539_964x680.jpg Taking command: President Obama talks with members of the national security team in the White House situation room following the conclusion of the mission



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/03/article-1382859-0BE040A200000578-54_964x680.jpg Making his point: The President speaks during one of a series of meetings which took place in the Situation Room as National Security Adviser Tom Donilon listens











Despite President Obama claiming the master terrorist’s death made the world a ‘safer, better place’, the head of the Central Intelligence Agency declared that terrorists would ‘almost certainly’ respond.
The warning came on a day when:
■ Relations between Pakistan and the West were under intense strain amid disbelief that intelligence chiefs in Islamabad had no idea Bin Laden was living in a compound only 800 yards from the country’s leading military academy.

■ U.S. officials sought to justify the torture of detainees at Guantanamo Bay by claiming it provided the crucial breakthrough in hunting down Bin Laden.

■ It emerged that a terror operative captured in Pakistan in 2004 said Al Qaeda would detonate a nuclear bomb in the U.S. if Bin Laden were killed or captured.

David Cameron said Bin Laden’s death would be ‘welcomed right across our country’.

But security was stepped up as he warned: ‘It does not mark the end of the threat we face from extremist terrorism. Indeed, we will have to be particularly vigilant in the weeks ahead.’

Last night the Prime Minister chaired a meeting of the Government’s emergency planning committee Cobra to assess the implications for the UK. Security sources have been told of specific threats against targets in North Africa and Europe.

Officials in Britain fear a ‘lone wolf’ – currently off the security services’ radar – could be inspired to take revenge.

There is no specific intelligence pointing to any attack in response to Bin Laden’s death, but it is ‘common sense’ to be on guard, Whitehall officials say.

Possible targets include popular tourist and business locations including the Houses of Parliament, Canary Wharf and the London Eye, say security experts.

President Obama announced Bin Laden’s death in a televised statement shortly after 4am British time yesterday

He recalled the images from the terror attacks of September 11, 2001 which were ‘seared into our national memory’.

Nearly 3,000 people were killed – including 67 Britons – when four jets hijacked by Al Qaeda extremists crashed in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. The attack left ‘a gaping hole in our hearts’, said the President.

Last night pictures were released of Mr Obama and his security team – including Hillary Clinton – watching the mission to kill Bin Laden in the White House’s Situation Room.

Steve Franklin
05-03-2011, 01:53 AM
Let's face it. Barack Obama is either the dumbest person ever to walk the face of the earth, or he's a pathological liar. I vote for the latter.

I think he's gonna learn what the meaning of "Blowback" is now.

Unless, of course, both sides understand that this is just kabuki theater meant to justify U.S. disengagement from Afghanistan. Like I said, I vote for the 2nd option.
:pirate:

Ed Jewett
05-03-2011, 03:13 AM
Much of the material below is noted at http://whatreallyhappened.com/

"And it seems to me perfectly in the cards that there will be within the next generation or so a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing … a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda, brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods."


Aldous Huxley, 1959


http://www.hulu.com/watch/1426/saturday-night-live-the-death-of-franco


Osama bin Bogeyman? 'CIA getting rid of old asset'
By: tyler durden

(Video: Interview) James Corbett of the Corbett Report brilliantly makes an end-run around the interviewer who was trying to stick with the official contrived narrative of the bin Laden myth.

More: http://ur1.ca/42gca


Announcement of Osama Bin Laden’s Death Is A Staged Psychological Warfare Operation
By: Alex2245
Tags: CURRENT EVENTS
It was only a matter of time before the criminal terrorists in the United States government decided that it was time to claim that they had finally killed Osama Bin Laden. His reported death is nothing more than a staged psychological warfare operation designed to aid Barack Obama’s credibility as President and to make the claim that progress in this fake terror war is being made.

In reality, Bin Laden required the use of a kidney dialysis machine right around the time of the September 11th attacks and there were even reports of his death around the same time frame. All of the major Bin Laden videos that were either found or released after the September 11th attacks were criticized as fakes.

More?
http://theintelhub.com/2011/05/02/announcement-of-osama-bin-ladens-death-is-a-staged-psychological-warfare-operation/

or even more?
http://www.roguegovernment.com/Announcement_of_Osama_Bin_Laden%27s_Death_Is_A_Sta ged_Psychological_Warfare_Operation/25594/0/13/13/Y/M.html


Dead Man Rising
by Linh Dinh / May 2nd, 2011

Upon hearing that Bin Laden has been officially pronounced dead, I thought 1) Since this man has been dead for nearly a decade, the US killed a look-alike; 2) Maybe previous rumors about Bin Laden’s demise, reported in the New York Times, The Guardian and Fox News, among many other places, were false, after all. Still, the US has long known where he was, but only decided to kill him now to a) Lift up American spirits as economic despair becomes ever more acute; b) Help Obama get reelected, since he is such a great tool of the establishment. Although his policies hardly differ from Bush, his charms and skin color have dampened protest from many quarters; c) Set up a false flag “retaliation from Al Qaeda,” which would renew sagging support for the War on Terrorism. In any case, it would be interesting to get all the details of this operation and see the physical evidences. For every assassination or murder, there must be a corpse, but alas, there is no corpse! Less than six hours after news came that Bin Laden had been killed, it was announced that he had already been buried at sea. The official explanation: The US must respect the Islamic tradition that a corpse be buried within 24 hours, and since no country was willing to be his final host, not even Saudi Arabia, his homeland, Bin Laden had to be dumped into a place where he could never be exhumed. How convenient. Case closed!

Such respect for a Muslim corpse from a country that seems to be fighting Muslims everywhere, that kills, imprisons and tortures Muslims, whose soldiers draped panties and smeared shit on Muslim heads, raped Muslim women and collected Muslim ears as trophies. America hasn’t exactly been shy about abusing Muslims, dead or alive, so why this sudden delicacy? Remember also that Uday and Qusay Hussein were killed by American troops on July 22, 2003, then buried on August 2, 11 days later.

Had Bin Laden been captured, and I will insist there was never any intention of catching this man alive, he would have to be tried in court, where his involvement with 9/11 would have to be proven, counter theories could be introduced and questions about 9/11 raised. In short, a nasty can of worms to be avoided at all cost.

Though long gone, Bin Laden had been extremely useful as a boogeyman for the American military industrial complex, but this ruse was running out of gas. Even with a fake, CIA-produced audio every now and then, the Bin Laden brand no longer captured, so it was time to close out this product line, not with a bang, exactly, since there’s no cadaver, but with plenty of noise nevertheless.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/05/dead-man-rising/#more-32437


Obama's Osama

I don't think they would risk a Miller's Crossing situation, with the guy who is supposed to be dead popping up inconveniently.* Thus, we can conclude that he is dead, and died within the last ten years.* The last real evidence of his being alive is interviews in the fall of 2001 (see here and here). Later videos and interview transcripts are obviously bogus intelligence creations.

There is no way to know when he died.

The timing is odd from an American political point of view.* Why not wait until just before the Presidential election?* If the killing was phony, and Osama was already dead, they could have staged it any time.* If the killing was real, Osama obviously wasn't going anywhere, so they could have delayed the operation.

The most obvious reason for the timing is the talk about the withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan and Iraq.* A good way to stop this is to ratchet up the War On Terror by staging a false-flag attack against the United States characterized as 'al Qaeda' revenge for the death of Osama bin Laden.* Americans are already being brainwashed for this attack.

"Bin Laden's great escape: How the world's most wanted man made fools of elite troops who'd trapped him in his mountain lair" A whitewash of the time the Americans allowed Pakistan to rescue bin Laden, published just a day before the 'death' announcement.*

"He said he was going to die a martyr's death for Allah and Islam." (from the Hamid Mir interview)

AT 5/02/2011 11:30:00 AM

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2011/05/obamas-osama.html

MONDAY, MAY 02, 2011
Obama's Osama II

Americans of all political stripes are shouting 'USA, USA' and behaving in the embarrassing style to which the rest of the world has become accustomed.* Much celebration of the competence and toughness of the American military.* But the greater operation was a complete fuck-up.* Obama was supposed to be able to announce, in quick succession:

the death of Gaddafi, and thus the American 'salvation' of the people of Libya; and
the live capture of Osama bin Laden.

Instead, these incompetents end up killing Seif (the Lesser) and possibly three Gaddafi grandsons, and letting Osama turn into a martyr.* 'USA, USA' indeed.* Morons!* I'll bet Obama's swearing at hearing the results peeled the wallpaper off the walls of the Oval Office.* It must have been like one of those Hitler videos.*

Then he had to put on his game face, turn on the teleprompter, and announce 'victory'.

Burial at sea?* If they were really interested in preventing the creation of a shrine they could have easily buried him anywhere in Pakistan in an unmarked grave the whereabouts of which was only known to a handful of American soldiers.* We've reached the point where we are seeing additions to the Official Story that are included just to create interest amongst the conspiracy crowd.* I am reminded of Atta's passport.

"Hillary Clinton: Osama bin Laden killing shows 'you cannot defeat us'" Really? About three or four or five Wars For The Jews later, the most powerful nation in the world is headed to third-world status at record speed.* Its citizens are unable to fly anywhere without being sexually assaulted, and many other civil liberties have been permanently lost, all in fighting the 'War On Terror'. If that's not defeat, I don't know what is.

AT 5/02/2011 12:35:00 PM 8 COMMENTS AND 0 REACTIONS
http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2011/05/obamas-osama-ii.html


There is extensive coverage here:
http://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/


Lots of 8x10 glossies of the compound here:
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/obl-kill/obl-kill.htm

Where Was Osama Bin Laden On September 11, 2001?
By Michel Chossudovsky

Originally published in 2006, includes Dan Rather’s CBS News Report on OBL’s medical treatment in a Rawalpindi hospital ...

http://carolynbaker.net/2011/05/02/where-was-osama-bin-laden-on-september-11-2001-by-michel-chossudovsky/a


Mass Murderer Rubs-Out Competing Gang Leader in Turf War
Column by Lawrence M. Ludlow, posted on May 02, 2011
in Tyranny Terrorism Statism

*
Exclusive to STR
*


On Sunday, the elected mass murderer and head of the world’s largest organization of violent thugs (headquartered at lavish facilities in Washington, D.C. and elsewhere) crowed over the success of a hit-squad that rubbed out the small-scale thug that it created during the late 1970s to do its dirty work against the second-largest violent gang (known as Soviets in their neighborhood), which had been engaged at the time in a battle over turf in Afghanistan. The elected Washington-based mass murderer-in-chief managed to pack as many lies, half-truths, and misleading statements (as well as overusing the adjective “clear”) into a tawdry victory speech full of bellicose saber rattling as his elected mass-murdering predecessor, who was most notable for being unable to pronounce the word “nuclear” and consequently spawned an entire cottage industry of sycophantic imitators who also seemed unable to pronounce this word correctly.
*
The gang-subsidized parasites and hit-men employed by the Washington-based gang shamelessly crowed about their tawdry victory by utilizing state-controlled media channels, and these media channels assisted the elected mass murderer in keeping up the illusion that the citizens who were under the thumb of the Washington-based mass murderer were somehow safer now that the leader of their one-time subsidiary gang had been rubbed out. The elected mass murderer also was careful not to allow into his tawdry victory statement the meme that it was his own organization that was responsible for creating the smaller criminal organization in the first place and that his organization’s free-wheeling policy of worldwide murder rampages and financial assistance to allied violent gangs engaged in turf wars was responsible for provoking the retaliatory attack of the leader of the Afghanistan-based franchise gang on September 11, 2001 against one of the cities controlled by the Washington-based gang.
*
Because of the massive number of lies and half-truths – as well as the general avoidance of speaking frankly about the nature of the retaliatory attack and the related violent activities of the Washington-based organization – a large number of people in the geographical landmass controlled by the Washington-based gang will continue to allow themselves to be systematically ordered around; abused, molested, stripped, X-rayed, and photographed naked at airports; forced to reward the servants and allies of the gang with their hard-earned money; regularly suffer from the consequences of the gang’s turf wars with other vicious agencies (known as collateral damage); told what kinds of foods, beverages, and drugs that they as peaceful people may ingest; forced to “purchase” unwanted and wanted “services” from monopoly providers against their will; pay for dozens of expensive and inhumane prison camps, where people are incarcerated for engaging in peaceful behaviors that are forbidden to all but members of the gang; told where and when they may conduct business to feed their families; be subjected to injections of syphilis and other dangerous substances; forced to surrender their children to institutions where these children learn to obey members of the gang and also may learn some valuable skills (not very well) to make them capable of generating more wealth for the violent organization; suffer from the violent activities of many small criminal drug gangs that were fostered in urban and suburban areas by a policy of making substances illegal (again creating innocent victims of those living near turf battles); and would continue to suffer from the ravages of being systematically kidnapped, tortured, secretly renditioned, and targeted for assassination by the Washington-based gang. Otherwise, it was a typical Sunday.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/elected-mass-murderer-rubs-out-competing-gang-leader-in-turf-war

Osama bin Laden corpse photo is fake
Tags: CORPORATE MEDIA COVER-UP/DECEPTIONS/PROPAGANDA WHITE HOUSE


An image apparently showing a dead Osama bin Laden broadcast on Pakistani television and picked up by British newspaper websites is a fake.

The bloodied image of a man with matted hair and a blank, half-opened eye has been circulating on the internet for the past two years. It was used on the front pages of the Mail, Times, Telegraph, Sun and Mirror websites, though swiftly removed after the fake was exposed on Twitter.

It appears the fake picture was initially published by the Middle East online newspaper themedialine.org on 29 April 2009, with a warning from the editor that it was "unable to ascertain whether the photo is genuine or not".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake?CMP=twt_fd

Good reading:
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-not-issue.html

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/05/beyond-bin-laden-stunt-and-dire.html


Old material from the past...

November 2001: 'Bin Laden in poor health, to live for only two more years'
May 2, 2011 by legitgov

CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July 01

Nov 2001 Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro. The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere. Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department... Bin Laden has often been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more years. According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan.

Benazir Bhutto: Bin Laden was Murdered
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg&feature=player_embedded

[And who murdered her?!]

News of Bin Laden's Death and Funeral - December 2001
May 2, 2011 by legitgov


Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper:
al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633
*
*
News of Bin Laden's Death and Funeral 10 days ago
26 Dec 2011

Islamabad - A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa'da organization, stating that bin Laden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death.

The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago.

He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa'da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. In the farewell ceremony to his final rest guns were fired in the air. The official stated that it is difficult to pinpoint the burial location of bin Laden because according to the Wahhabi tradition no mark is left by the grave. He stressed that it is unlikely that the American forces would ever uncover any traces of bin Laden.


Reported Funeral mid-December 2001*
See also: Benazir Bhutto: Bin Laden was Murdered Posted by setfree69 27 Dec 2007 (Video).
http://www.legitgov.org/News-Bin-Ladens-Death-and-Funeral-December-2001


9/11/01 - WTC Hard Drives Show $100 Million In Criminal Credit Transfers Before Towers Fell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R3QgmWstJA&feature=player_embedded#at=84


"Now, bin Laden's oldest son was killed in the US attack, so that will suffice for the DNA 'match' and 'confirmation' for the lapdog-ish US media. Never mind Obama's birth certificate being a fake - Osama's 'death certificate' is a fake! The US will (now) get public support to kill Qaddafi/invade Libya for Exxon Mobil. The threat alert will rise as a result of the US killing the deceased Osama bin Forgotten." -- Lori Price at Citizens for Legitimate Government


Thursday, September 30, 2010
Photosyopshop®: How Did UT Shooter Tooley Get Mohammed Atta's Eyes, Eyebrows?


Speaking of Photoshop, that's what I used to*quickly*create this animated gif as I wanted to play around with overlays of one known government patsy and a younger, newer possible patsy, Colton "The Tool" Tooley - a probable tool of the PNAC-AIPACian axis of evil... [redacted]

By Lori Price, http://www.legitgov.org/ 29 Sep 2010



On Tuesday, a 19-year-old student at the Austin campus of the University of Texas, allegedly brandished an AK-47 and fired 'several shots' as he 'ran through the campus,' ultimately killing no one but himself. Witnesses reported a second gunman. However, later media reports morphed into a 'lone wolf' scenario, concluding that the alleged shooter, Colton J. Tooley, acted alone.




As the list of 'oddities' grows regarding this shooting incident -- as with so many others -- the possibility of another CIA Photoshop PSYOP emerges. A comparison of the image of Mohammed Atta, one of the alleged masterminds and ringleader of the 9/11 terror attacks, and that of Colton Tooley, the alleged AK-47-toting math major, reveals a startling similarity between their eyes, eyebrows and hairlines.

Is the CIA/media generating and promoting the 'angry Muslim terrorist' visage, in order to gain support for shutting or wiretapping the Internet amidst a barrage of false flags and phony terror alerts? See also: Virginia Tech Shooting 'Oddities', NIU Shooting 'Oddities', and Pentagon Shooting 'Oddities'.*

Source: http://www.legitgov.org/How-Did-UT-Shooter-Tooley-Get-Mohammed-Attas-Eyes-Eyebrows

See the animated gif by Lori Price at this link:
http://redactednews.blogspot.com/2010/09/photosyopshop-how-did-ut-shooter-tooley.html


Osama bin Laden’s Second Death
by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24587


Bin Laden Is Dead ... But Why Didn't We Kill Him 10 Years Ago?
by Washington's Blog
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24588

Keith Millea
05-03-2011, 03:33 AM
Unless, of course, both sides understand that this is just kabuki theater meant to justify U.S. disengagement from Afghanistan.

Yes,that's an interesting thought.An announced pull-out of troops just before the General election.Obummer promised.............

Albert Doyle
05-03-2011, 04:35 AM
Why would they do something so dumb as make fake pictures obviously taken directly from 10 year old photos of Bin Laden?

Phil Dragoo
05-03-2011, 04:50 AM
GHWBush might've been re-elected in 1992 had he not publicly humiliated the popular Norman Schwarzkopf and removed Saddam Hussein.


Clinton used OKCBomb to gain eleven points and re-election. Anomalies included John Doe Number Two from Iraq, Andreas Carl Strassmeier from German miltiary intelligence, and Dennis Mahon FBI informant who taught McVeigh and Nichols about ANFO.


George W. Bush captured Saddam Hussein December, 2003, and gained ten points.


Obama hits Osama for the short-term bump, the face-saving “strong horse” tide to ride out of the decade-long quagmire, with the option for a false-flag blow-back to be spun as needed.


The hidden imam is riding high across Africa championed by NATO—yet the nuclear surprise lies in one of its capitals.


We are assured by Posner that Afghanistan's leadership is not complicit with either the CIA or drug-smuggling.


We may declare victory and come home.


2504

Ed Jewett
05-03-2011, 05:20 AM
Why would they do something so dumb as make fake pictures obviously taken directly from 10 year old photos of Bin Laden?

Charlotte Iserbyt would know. Most people aren't paying attention, don't dig deeper, don't and can't comprehend, aren't detailed-oriented, don't verify what they've been told, are over-saturated with media propaganda and media diversion, and are simply reacting psychologically with the lower parts of their triune brain. They go along to get along. The ones who don't fit into that category come to web sites like this one to be better discerning, and more sentient, beings; they are often described in pejorative terms and become the focus of the power of the state through surveillance or intimidation or even violence.

Carsten Wiethoff
05-03-2011, 06:08 AM
From http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/compound-in-pakistan-was-once-a-safe-house-1.802539

Compound in Pakistan was once a safe house

House was not owned by the government and had been rented by Afghan nationals, intelligence official says


By Ashfaq Ahmed, Chief Reporter
Published: 00:00 May 3, 2011

http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/soldiers-of-pakistan-army-1.802549%21image/665601501.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_475/665601501.jpg

Image Credit: AP
Soldiers of Pakistan Army seen near the house in Abbottabad on Tuesday where Osama Bin Laden was believed to have been residing. The physical security measures of the compound are extraordinary. It has 12-to-18-foot outer walls, topped with barbed wire fencing.


Dubai: The compound in Abbottabad where Osama Bin Laden was killed was once used as a safe house by Pakistan's premier intelligence agency ISI, Gulf News has learnt.
"This area had been used as ISI's safe house, but it was not under their use any more because they keep on changing their locations," a senior intelligence official confided to Gulf News. However, he did not reveal when and for how long it was used by the ISI operatives. Another official cautiously said "it may not be the same house but the same compound or area used by the ISI".
The official also confirmed that the house was rented out by Afghan nationals and is not owned by the government. The house is located just 800 metres away from the Pakistan Military Academy and some former senior military officials live nearby.
Abbottabad is a garrison town located just 50 kilometres north of Islamabad and it is a popular summer resort, originally built by the British during colonial rule. The city houses a number of upscale educational institutions and religious schools as well.
Secluded affluence
According to the briefing by senior US officials on the killing of Bin Laden, the area is relatively affluent, with lots of retired military staff. It is also insulated from the natural disasters and terrorist attacks that have afflicted other parts of Pakistan — an extraordinarily unique compound. The compound sits on a large plot of land in an area that was relatively secluded when it was built. It is roughly eight times larger than nearby homes.
The physical security measures of the compound are extraordinary.
It has 12-to-18-foot outer walls, topped with barbed wires. Internal walls sectioned off different portions of the compound to provide extra privacy.
Access to the compound is restricted by two security gates and the residents of the compound burnt their trash, unlike their neighbours, who put the trash out for collection.
The property is valued at approximately $1 million (Dh3.67 million), but has no telephone or Internet connection.

Carsten Wiethoff
05-03-2011, 06:18 AM
So we get photos of Obama and the gang watching the raid as it unfolded but we don't get to watch it ourselves? The revolution will not be televised.

To me this looks like people watching the high priest sacrifice a virgin, or some such ritualistic murder.

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 07:02 AM
Dead? Again? I wonder whose body they'll use? Maybe he's been in the deep freezer until needed. Maybe they'll use a double. Maybe they'll have tiny pieces of something. In any case just another side show. :pinkelephant:
Really. They have photos but press is saying they are not recognized as OBL. We're just supposed to believe that they made a DNA match this fast.
This also happened just after they killed an innocent son and grandchildren...
Dawn

Hmmm....Very good point...and one I overlooked....I will check, but I do believe it takes longer to do a DNA match than was possible!!!!! :pirate:

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 07:03 AM
On the internet I see 3-5 days for DNA matching...but even if they did it 'pronto', say 2-3 days...they apparently did it in less than one.....or didn't do it at all [most likely!]

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 07:20 AM
It turns out Obama, Clinton, and all the other top officials were WATCHING via webcam the murder of OBL in real time on a wall-size screen [with sound]! Think about it..... :hitler: SICK!!!!!!!!:joystick: Remember, the instructions were to murder, not capture [and try in Court] OBL...and Obama calls this 'Justice'.....Justice American Style....now....[kill first, ask questions and hold trial later]. Obama has also declared Manning guilty....we can do away with the judicial system now....we just 'do' 'justice' by fiat......the default verdict is guilty, and the most common sentence is summary execution. :pirate: The undignified, in fact disgusting and disrespectful, [not to mention suspicious!] disposal of the body shows how coldhearted, arrogant, and hateful the Empire has become.

Trowbridge H. Ford
05-03-2011, 09:07 AM
Here is a link to the TV episode that the warmongers in Washington watched live!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382859/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-photo-Obama-watching-Al-Qaeda-leader-die-live-TV.html

Let's just hope that the blowback does not include a nuclear detonation in your neighborhood.

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 09:29 AM
From http://gulfnews.com/news/world/other-world/compound-in-pakistan-was-once-a-safe-house-1.802539

Compound in Pakistan was once a safe house

House was not owned by the government and had been rented by Afghan nationals, intelligence official says


By Ashfaq Ahmed, Chief Reporter
Published: 00:00 May 3, 2011

http://gulfnews.com/polopoly_fs/soldiers-of-pakistan-army-1.802549%21image/665601501.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_475/665601501.jpg

Image Credit: AP
Soldiers of Pakistan Army seen near the house in Abbottabad on Tuesday where Osama Bin Laden was believed to have been residing. The physical security measures of the compound are extraordinary. It has 12-to-18-foot outer walls, topped with barbed wire fencing.


Dubai: The compound in Abbottabad where Osama Bin Laden was killed was once used as a safe house by Pakistan's premier intelligence agency ISI, Gulf News has learnt.
"This area had been used as ISI's safe house, but it was not under their use any more because they keep on changing their locations," a senior intelligence official confided to Gulf News. However, he did not reveal when and for how long it was used by the ISI operatives. Another official cautiously said "it may not be the same house but the same compound or area used by the ISI".
The official also confirmed that the house was rented out by Afghan nationals and is not owned by the government. The house is located just 800 metres away from the Pakistan Military Academy and some former senior military officials live nearby.
Abbottabad is a garrison town located just 50 kilometres north of Islamabad and it is a popular summer resort, originally built by the British during colonial rule. The city houses a number of upscale educational institutions and religious schools as well.
Secluded affluence
According to the briefing by senior US officials on the killing of Bin Laden, the area is relatively affluent, with lots of retired military staff. It is also insulated from the natural disasters and terrorist attacks that have afflicted other parts of Pakistan — an extraordinarily unique compound. The compound sits on a large plot of land in an area that was relatively secluded when it was built. It is roughly eight times larger than nearby homes.
The physical security measures of the compound are extraordinary.
It has 12-to-18-foot outer walls, topped with barbed wires. Internal walls sectioned off different portions of the compound to provide extra privacy.
Access to the compound is restricted by two security gates and the residents of the compound burnt their trash, unlike their neighbours, who put the trash out for collection.
The property is valued at approximately $1 million (Dh3.67 million), but has no telephone or Internet connection.

Note the high [3m] walls and barbed-wire on top....more like a prison, than a home. The Pakistani intelligence, which had a HUGE presence in that town and trained many of its operatives just down the street, must have know all along OBL was there....if they didn't put him there themselves. I wonder if we'll ever get a straight story.....doubt it. Why OBL was murdered rather than stand trial is more than obvious - except to most American Sheeple....it would have proven deadly embarrassing to the US and other governments about everything from the resistance to the Soviets in Afghanistan, to the Saudis, to the Bush family, to 911 and so many, many other operations in which the 'terrorist' was our terrorist and had many connections to western and middle-eastern intelligence operations and persons.

Jonathan Mark
05-03-2011, 10:47 AM
The cover-up, or concealment of evidence continues..


02 May 2011 - AP - 911blogger
Destruction of 9/11 Evidence Continues;
Bin Laden Body Dumped at Sea (http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-02/destruction-911-evidence-continues-bin-laden-body-dumped-sea)


'According to an AP press release and a CNN blog update it is being reported that the body of Usama Bin Laden has been dumped at sea in accordance with Islamic tradition.
The quick disposal of the body of Bin Laden is an amazing display of disregard to the situation, though disposal of evidence and 9/11 seem to be synonymous (http://norcaltruth.org/2010/12/02/911-debris-investigation-into-ground-zero/).'
From the AP (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/A U.S. official says Osama bin Laden has been buried at sea.):

A U.S. official says Osama bin Laden has been buried at sea.
After bin Laden was killed in a raid by U.S. forces in Pakistan, senior administration officials said the body would be handled according to Islamic practice and tradition. That practice calls for the body to be buried within 24 hours, the official said. Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said. So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea.
The official, who spoke Monday on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive national security matters, did not immediately say where that occurred.
From the CNN blog (12:22 AM ET): (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/obama-to-make-statment-tonight-subject-unknown/?hpt=T1)

Osama bin Laden's body was buried at sea according to Islamic law because no country was willing or able to take his body for burial on land, senior Defense officials said.
"When there is no land alternative, Islamic law dictates that the body be buried within 24 hours, and that was the basis," one official said. "
A second senior Defense official said there was no country willing or able to accept the body for burial, and U.S. forces "took pains to observe Muslim law."
"Today's religious rites were conducted on the deck of the USS Carl Vinson in the Arabian sea. The ceremony started at 1:10am and finished at 2:10am ET," the second official said. "Procedures for Islamic body were followed. The body was washed and placed in a white sheet. A military official read prepared remarks, which were then translated into Arabic by a native speaker. The body of Osama bin Laden was placed on a flat board, which was then tipped up, and allowed to slide into the sea."
Now lets remember this very important fact:

That report is from 2006 (http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/16-no-hard-evidence-connecting-bin-laden-to-9-11/). The FBI still has "no evidence" directly linking Bin Laden to 9/11 and that brings up the question, " on what grounds was this operation ordered?"
In his announcement last night of Bin Laden's death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNYmK19-d0U), Obama stated that Osama was responsible for nearly 3,000 deaths. This is not the first case of guilty-before-innocent mentality by Obama, as witnessed by a recent question to him about Bradley Manning (http://warisacrime.org/content/video-obama-pronounces-bradley-manning-guilty-trial-affirms-nation-laws-bush-walks).
Looking at the FBI webpage today I find that they have updated his profile to "deceased", yet there is still NO mention of 9/11. (Disclaimer: this links to the FBI web-page for Bin Laden (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists/usama-bin-laden))
It is worth noting the 2010 story about the FBI using a Spanish lawmakers web-photo as a "Bin Laden 10 years later" photo. Worth noting so we remember the level of credibilty that officials have in regards to Usama Bin Laden and the war on terror in general.

The news of Bin Laden being killed is unlikely to help or soothe these 9/11 family members:

Videos and more at post:
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-02/destruction-911-evidence-continues-bin-laden-body-dumped-sea

Steve Franklin
05-03-2011, 12:49 PM
Why would they do something so dumb as make fake pictures obviously taken directly from 10 year old photos of Bin Laden?

It depends on who "they" are. One thing I've noticed about the press lately is that they've gotten really really lazy. One of them digs up a photoshopped image on the net and the rest pile on so as not to be scooped by the other guys. It might be interesting to track where this image first appeared, if someone has a whole lot of time to kill. We might even manage to figure out who "they" are after all.

Something I've also noticed lately is that there is a certain segment of the press that grew up without the internet and still does not understand the ease with which this kind of fraud can be "busted." It's not "dumb" so much as ignorant.

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 12:51 PM
Everything was planned out...including the murder [no chance of arrest] of OBL; dumping at sea....that ship doesn't have an Imam on board, nor a Koran. They didn't try to ask anyone if they wanted his body and they didn't do a DNA test [no time to]. They didn't enter to arrest, but to murder, silence and throw away their old partner to hide their crimes - not to punish him for any he might have committed. It was a cover our ass mission. :darthvader:

Steve Franklin
05-03-2011, 12:57 PM
On the internet I see 3-5 days for DNA matching...but even if they did it 'pronto', say 2-3 days...they apparently did it in less than one.....or didn't do it at all [most likely!]

This is the way you tell a fraud. Agencies that normally take weeks just to get their pants on, manage to "solve" a crime almost instantaneously. The phoned in "tip" about Oswald before anyone even knew who he was, the handy-dandy list of "conspirators" in the rental car on 9/11, the planted gun found in the open the day Martin King was murdered, they all point toward scripted events. The magic DNA identification is just another example. And where did they get the DNA to match? Was it standard practice for the CIA to DNA-type their operatives during the Russo-Afghan War?

Carsten Wiethoff
05-03-2011, 01:07 PM
And where did they get the DNA to match? Was it standard practice for the CIA to DNA-type their operatives during the Russo-Afghan War?
To answer that question, at least according to the official narrative:
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-05/osama-bin-laden-identified-dna-his-sisters-brain

Jonathan Mark
05-03-2011, 01:09 PM
They could have attained DNA when the CIA met with bin Laden (that was documented) during the summer of 2001 when he was undergoing dialyses treatments at a hospital in Dubai.

The key element that shows fraud is dumping his body in the sea. With a government known to lie .. do they expect us to believe them.. with DNA???



02 May 2011 - AP - 911blogger
Destruction of 9/11 Evidence Continues;
Bin Laden Body Dumped at Sea (http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-02/destruction-911-evidence-continues-bin-laden-body-dumped-sea)

Ed Encho
05-03-2011, 01:47 PM
For whatever reason it was decided that the value of keeping the bogeyman 'alive' to throw fear into the rubes had run it's course and so the already dead man outlived his usefulness per se. So, rather than to further comment on the big news story of the assassination of public enemy number one (who I might add has never actually been convicted of complicity in the 'terrorist' attacks of 9/11/01 in a court of law) for the time being at least as far as I am concerned I think that the more important matters of discussion would be anything that includes dismantling the fascist imperialist state that was constructed with the use of the American Reichstag Fire, 9/11 as justification.

- End the wars

- Bring the troops back home.

- Take the naked body scanners out of airports and destroy them.

- Dismantle the TSA.

- Break the Department of Homeland Security into a million pieces and scatter it to the winds.

- Drastically cut military spending and use the money to put Americans back to work by redirecting it towards desperately needed infrastructure reconstruction.

- Redirect the majority of counter-terrorism resources into a relentless effort to take out the real terrorists, the treasonous looters on Wall Street. No amount of money should be spared in breaking up their criminal finance cartels and jailing the crime bosses.

- I was going to suggest finally closing Gitmo but now I would say to keep it open as a penal colony for the Wall Street banksters.

What I truly find disturbing though is the celebratory spirit here in Der Heimat, it was reported that fans at sporting events are shouting USA! USA! USA!, one would think that the death of the biggest baddest phantom menace would slake their bloodlust rather than have them clamoring for more.

EE

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 01:47 PM
Its worse. They can not prove that they even did a DNA test. My research further shows they didn't have the time to do it. Even if they did [and I'm not going to believe that, just because my lying government says it did, they could match one piece of DNA with another from the same sample [obtained anytime, anywhere, from anyone] and call it a 'match'...which of course it would be....but since this is all done behind a shroud of governmental secrecy, there is no way to know any of it, if it is true or even happened. I'd like to hear the surviving family of bin Laden tell their tale.....but somehow don't expect it will ever happen.

Jonathan Mark
05-03-2011, 02:10 PM
I just updated FN (http://www.flybynews.com/) with this eyewitness account:


02 May 2011 - AlJazeera - RevolutionaryPolitics
Resident near 'Bin Laden's death' says it's bullshit (http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=14798)


'A resident of Abbottabad recounts witnessing the US raid on al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden's mansion in the Pakistani city.'

URL video link - http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=14798

Trowbridge H. Ford
05-03-2011, 02:23 PM
While I agree with EE's assessment of what should be done now, it will never happen as Washington and the country itself have just been driven over the brink by OBL's successes.

And he was a great success, though a bit lucky, by getting America to fight an endless war on terror which will bring it down, one way or another - what could have prevented 9/11 and all that, if the 19 alleged highjackers had just been arrested when they attempted to get on three of the four planes, but Bush's White House was for creating a reason for going to war with the Taliban in Afghanistan because of its unwillingness to allow Caspian oil to be piped through the country.

Consequently, Tenet's CIA had 15 unarmed agents on three planes to regain control of them after they had been highjacked, and taken to LA. Unfortunately, for them and for us, they turned out to be suicide bombers, and blew up America on its subsequent disastrous course.

And when the Agency finally decided to kill him, as he had outlived his usefulness, they so overdid it to protect itself against blowback from their massive errors that he got a new life as a martyr despite the disposal of his body, just like Christ.

Much better to have just taken him out of circulation, and parked in a place like Gitmo. But the Agency somehow just manages screwups, and we shall be left with its consequences.

Ed Jewett
05-03-2011, 03:27 PM
It turns out Obama, Clinton, and all the other top officials were WATCHING via webcam the murder of OBL in real time on a wall-size screen [with sound]! .

This suggests that the entire thing (not unlike the gun-camera video with which Wikileaks first appeared) may have been secured and taped so that it might re-appear in the darkened media rooms of the elite powermongers, or perhaps on a large screen or bedsheet out at Bohemian Grove, along perhaps with media coverage of Jonestown and a reel of assorted other 'war porn'.

Keith Millea
05-03-2011, 03:37 PM
They put people in jail for watching snuff films.Don't they............

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/03/article-1382859-0BE03DE700000578-150_964x642.jpg

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 04:05 PM
They put people in jail for watching snuff films.Don't they............

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/03/article-1382859-0BE03DE700000578-150_964x642.jpg

A very interesting study in facial expressions as they watch a family be murdered in cold blood in their sleep. :hitler:

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 04:10 PM
.... the assassination of public enemy number one (who I might add has never actually been convicted of complicity in the 'terrorist' attacks of 9/11/01 in a court of law)....

:hitler: picky, picky, picky.....oh, you lefty/idealist/dreamers!.....court of law?! :lol: :darthvader: .....the court, judge and jury can all now be found at the action end of the barrel of a gun [one big mother of a gun!] All the justice anyone who challenges the 'Empire' will get from here on out....get used to it! Next!?

Mark Ludwig
05-03-2011, 04:15 PM
There are reports of a photo of OBL post-mortem is going to be released shortly.

Keith Millea
05-03-2011, 04:21 PM
A very interesting study in facial expressions as they watch a family be murdered in cold blood in their sleep.

I think Hillary is about to hurl. :vomit:

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 04:24 PM
There are reports of a photo of OBL post-mortem is going to be released shortly.

I've already seen it on the internet..it looks photoshopped to me.....I'll try to locate it..but have to warn everyone - not a pretty picture, whether real or not....

Warning...do NOT enlarge, if you don't have a very strong stomach!

Jan Klimkowski
05-03-2011, 05:15 PM
Peter - the source photos for the original fake Osama corpse photo can be seen here:


How to create a fake (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake) image of a ghost.

The fact that this whole charade (the execution and disposal of a western-created bogeyman) is being taken seriously by millions of people is really sickening.

I also note that the hawks are beginning to ratchet up the line that "Pakistan's ISI must have known" and this is "treachery" demanding a military reaction.

I'm waiting for the resurrection of Richard Armitage's threat to bomb Pakistan "back to the Stone Age", as reported by Pakistan's President Musharaff after 9/11.

Of course Armitage was "Colin Powell's white son", with the two being buddies from their Golden Triangle "killing gooks" days.....

Jan Klimkowski
05-03-2011, 05:22 PM
The other disgraceful and shameful agenda that is being pushed is that the execution of Bin Laden "proves that torture works".

I just saw a Bush-era lawyer, who had the gall to call himself a "human rights lawyer", argue precisely this on Sky News, and justify torture.

Of course there is NO proof, NADA, NOTHING, that material gained from torture of people incarcerated at Guantanamo led to the discovery of the alleged Bin Laden "compound".

It is also prima facie highly unlikely that individuals arrested years ago would have any knowledge of a 2011 "safe house".

Ed Jewett
05-03-2011, 05:32 PM
It is also prima facie highly unlikely that individuals arrested years ago would have any knowledge of a 2011 "safe house".

But mass doses of mefloquinone can produce the ability to see into the future.... :coffee:

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 06:04 PM
US spokesman just admitted OBL was absolutely unarmed when murdered. :wirlitzer: He also admitted there are photos and videos of all the actions and the 'burial' at sea...but the public would not likely ever see them...due to 'sensitivities'....

Jan Klimkowski
05-03-2011, 06:10 PM
US spokesman just admitted OBL was absolutely unarmed when murdered. :wirlitzer:

The White House is briefing that it was a "double tap".

Strip away the veneer of patriotic gung ho, and we see an execution in cold blood:


From Ghazi Air Base in Pakistan, the modified MH-60 helicopters made their way to the garrison suburb of Abbottabad, about 30 miles from the center of Islamabad. Aboard were Navy SEALs, flown across the border from Afghanistan, along with tactical signals, intelligence collectors, and navigators using highly classified hyperspectral imagers.

After bursts of fire over 40 minutes, 22 people were killed or captured. One of the dead was Osama bin Laden, done in by a double tap — boom, boom — to the left side of his face. His body was aboard the choppers that made the trip back. One had experienced mechanical failure and was destroyed by U.S. forces, military and White House officials tell NationalJournal.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42858824/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 06:33 PM
US spokesman just admitted OBL was absolutely unarmed when murdered. :wirlitzer:

The White House is briefing that it was a "double tap".

Strip away the veneer of patriotic gung ho, and we see an execution in cold blood:


From Ghazi Air Base in Pakistan, the modified MH-60 helicopters made their way to the garrison suburb of Abbottabad, about 30 miles from the center of Islamabad. Aboard were Navy SEALs, flown across the border from Afghanistan, along with tactical signals, intelligence collectors, and navigators using highly classified hyperspectral imagers.

After bursts of fire over 40 minutes, 22 people were killed or captured. One of the dead was Osama bin Laden, done in by a double tap — boom, boom — to the left side of his face. His body was aboard the choppers that made the trip back. One had experienced mechanical failure and was destroyed by U.S. forces, military and White House officials tell NationalJournal.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42858824/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/


A double tap is a shooting technique where two well-aimed shots are fired at the same target with very little time in between shots.[1][2] The term hammer is sometimes used to describe a double tap in which the firearm's sights are not reacquired by the shooter between shots.[2]
^ "GunTec Dictionary". MidwayUSA. Retrieved 2007-09-08.
^ a b "A Glossary of Terms Relating to Firearms". Retrieved 2007-09-08.


Old OBL once the pride of the Neocons obviously had lost his 'utility' to the Empire!

Jan Klimkowski
05-03-2011, 06:45 PM
Dr Akbar Ahmed, a highly placed Pakistani intelligence insider, currently a Professor in America, confirms that the deep political question is WHY NOW?

I share this judgement, and have argued such throughout this thread.

Akbar Ahmed effectively states that Bin Laden was under secret Pakistani house arrest and was deliberately given up to the US for currently unknown reasons.


Akbar Salahuddin Ahmed, Sitara-i-Imtiaz, or Akbar Ahmed, is currently the Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies, American University in Washington, D.C., the First Distinguished Chair of Middle East and Islamic Studies at the US Naval Academy, Annapolis,[1] and a Nonresident Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution.[2] He is considered “the world’s leading authority on contemporary Islam” by the BBC.[3]

Ambassador Akbar Ahmed has advised world leaders including most recently General David Petraeus, Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, and Secretary Michael Chertoff on Islam and foreign policy. He is regularly interviewed by CNN, CBS, BBC, and Fox News and has appeared several times on the Oprah Winfrey Show and has appeared on the Daily Show. He is the author of over a dozen award-winning books, including Discovering Islam (the basis for the BBC six-part TV series entitled “Living Islam”) and Journey into Islam; his books have been translated into many languages, including Chinese and Indonesian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akbar_S._Ahmed

Interview with Akbar Ahmed:


Highly unlikely nobody in Pakistan knew: Ahmed

Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Broadcast: 03/05/2011

Reporter: Ali Moore

Former Pakistani high commissioner to Great Britain Dr Akbar Ahmed says all buildings in that area need to be examined and approved.


Transcript
ALI MOORE: The strategic relationship between the US and Pakistan is likely to be further tested by the killing of Osama bin Laden, by US Special Forces, so close to Islamabad.

To discuss that relationship and how the death of the al Qaeda leader might be received in Pakistan more generally we're joined now from Washington by Dr Akbar Ahmed.

He was formerly Pakistan's high commissioner to Britain and is currently the Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at the American University in Washington.

Dr Akbar Ahmed, welcome to Lateline.

DR AKBAR AHMED, FORMER PAKISTANI HIGH COMMISSIONER TO BRITAIN: Thank you.

ALI MOORE: Do you think it's credible that the Pakistani intelligence services didn't know that bin Laden was in their country?

DR AKBAR AHMED: Ali, I was assistant commissioner in Abbottabad many, many years ago, I was schooled there, so I know the area. That is a Cantonment area where any building being constructed has to pass through the architecture, the building, the ownership through regular bureaucratic procedures which means people would know who's living in the building and a building that size so near the military academy would have bound to raise all kinds of suspicions, especially the kind of characters coming and going from the building.

So it is highly unlikely that the authorities didn't know who was in that building, which raises the question if they knew about who was in the building, why, at this particular time, was this operation allowed, as it were, to proceed because I don't believe Pakistan had no idea about the operation.

The helicopters flew from Tarbela just a couple of minutes from Abbottabad itself. The US/Pakistan intelligence officers work very closely together, share information and I feel that it was the fear of a backlash against the Pakistani government by many elements in the Pakistan population that would have come to a joint conclusion between the US and Pakistan that let's play down the Pakistan role.

ALI MOORE: So when the Pakistani president comes out and says that in fact it was not a joint operation, you don't believe that, you actually believe that the Pakistani authorities were informed prior to it taking place unlike what we've been told?

DR AKBAR AHMED: Again, put it in context, Ali. Just a few months ago the governor of the Punjab, one of the most senior figures in the country, was assassinated by some people inspired by this militancy, his own body guard. The president of Pakistan, and this governor, belonged to his party, did not go to his funeral.

That is the climate in Pakistan today. There is a climate of terror. People are being killed and assassinated. Now imagine in that environment for the president or the prime minister or the head of the army to say we planned this with the Americans, went in together and we killed Osama bin Laden.

Remember that in this commentary, and I've been listening to this commentary on your show, it's often overlooked that the main targets, the main victims of al Qaeda are the Pakistanis. Something like 40,000 Pakistanis have been killed since 9/11 and the pace has increased. The victims are schoolchildren, people in mosques, worshippers in shrines, right across the board.

So it is not in Pakistan's interest to further fuel this anger against them and therefore I suggest, and this is conjecture on my part, that the authorities would be very wary of linking any action like this too closely with the operation to kill Osama bin Laden.

ALI MOORE: At the same time though the obvious question is how long have they known he was there? The US is saying he could have been there for a considerable period of time. Certainly they expect three years so how long would you expect the Pakistani authorities to have known?

DR AKBAR AHMED: Again conjecture on my part, I was in charge of the Waziristan tribal areas where he was suspected to be hiding, and where I suspect he was hiding. Because Waziristan, of all the places in that entire region, is the most inaccessible, one of the most in the world because of the terrain, because of the people, the very tough but hostile tribes to outsiders so he could have lived for some time before being moved to Abbottabad and we know from the time line that in 2005 this house was apparently built and Osama would have occupied it.

The bigger question than how long have they known, is why now? Why now did this operation take place if he was living there for several years? And the reasons to me, again to my mind, and this is again conjecture, are not difficult to place.

Relations between the United States and Pakistan have reached a new low. It's a very brittle, unhappy relationship. This is a crucial relationship, it's of mutual benefit, it has a history, it has by and large a positive aspect to it, both sides stand to gain a great deal in the relationship and therefore the relationship must be maintained.

So the question is why now? And perhaps it could be that the Pakistanis felt that by giving something as big as Osama bin Laden this relationship will turn the corner and improve. It will be a better and happier relationship.

ALI MOORE: Do you think that is the most likely outcome because the other side of this is if while your conjecture is correct and the government did know about it but from the public point of view of Pakistani domestic politics did not want to tell people they knew about it, of course it's been called by some, including the former president, a violation of sovereignty. So is there not likely to be a domestic backlash against America?

DR AKBAR AHMED: There is and there already is in the last couple of weeks this mounting anger against America has reached very, very high levels in Pakistan. It was most dramatically illustrated when the DGIS, the head of the intelligence was in Washington a couple of days ago and his main request was to tone down the drone strikes which are killing so many women and children. And as he went back and arrived in Pakistan there was a drone strike killing again women and children.

So there is a great deal of anger and I must point out that Pakistanis is by and large a very much, very much mainstream. They want stability, they don't want violence, they're fed up of this kind of killing. They complain often that on the one hand we're being killed by the militants, on the other hand the drone strikes sometimes through the army action and there's just too much violence in Pakistan today and this adds to the sense of poverty, the collapse of law and order and the general sense of despair.

So put Pakistan and Pakistan society in context when we discuss this particular development.

ALI MOORE: So let me ask you, if this was a conscious decision, do you think it was one of handing something to the Americans? Do you think it was one made by the government or by the military and indeed, who is the more powerful?

DR AKBAR AHMED: A very good question because the relationship between the military and the civilian government has always been in Pakistan history complex. For half of Pakistan's history Pakistan has been ruled by the military. So there's a kind of pendulum swinging between these two poles.

Political government is often weak, corrupt, incompetent and a military government is promising clean rule, stability and strong man, iconic figure. Now what we're seeing is again that tension developing.

The military, unfortunately, have just been ousted from power a couple of years back with president Musharraf being thrown out of office and it's too early for the military to come back and the military is not very popular precisely because it is seen by the people of Pakistan as jumping or dancing to the tune of the United States and the West and therefore it's being accused of allying with the West against its own people, particularly the operations in the tribal areas.

So it's a very complex, difficult situation. The United States and the West including Australia cannot afford to lose Pakistan or Afghanistan because of its geopolitical situation. Take a look on the map. To the east China, to the south India, to the west Iran, to the north Russia, you just cannot afford to lose it simply in terms of a key position on the world map and if that is the case then we need to make sure that the relationship remains as happy as possible.

ALI MOORE: Which goes back to that question of who would have, whose idea this would have been and indeed why would it have been considered necessary because while on the one hand, as you say, US-Pakistani relations have deteriorated, on the other it is patently clear to everyone that the US, Australia, all the allied forces cannot do without Pakistan?

DR AKBAR AHMED: Exactly, but this is the dilemma that the world faces dealing with Pakistan and Pakistan faces several dilemmas. It's got to try to maintain its authority in Pakistan. These drone strikes obviously challenge that. At the same time it's got to take on the Taliban and the militant and those militants are seeping in into the administrative structure.

So I don't doubt that a lot of Pakistanis at the junior-most levels, including in the security services, perhaps in the army, have some sympathy for the militants and their aims because there is another aspect which is rarely discussed in this situation and that's a kind of class war, a class confrontation taking place in Pakistan.

I'm seeing, and I've been there over the last several years many times, the distinction between the very rich, elite of Pakistan and the mass of Pakistan. That gap has grown incredibly large and I find the elite seem to be insensitive to the problems of the poor. They live in huge mansions, lots of servants, they seem to have a lot of money and they've got houses in Dubai and London and they don't seem to really care about the well-being of the ordinary Pakistani. The ordinary Pakistani is struggling now just to survive.

So you see that Pakistan is really like a powder keg ready to explode and in the midst of all this you have the militants killing Pakistanis and the Americans and the West saying you're not doing enough and you can see why any government would be so wary about being too overtly or publicly or visibly associated with an action like this however marginal or unpopular Osama bin Laden may be to the main stream Pakistani.

ALI MOORE: We're going to run out of time but what do you think the ramifications are going to be of this for the US-Pakistani relationship? Do you think it will in fact strengthen that and domestically, politically what do you think the fallout will be?

DR AKBAR AHMED: Again, it's like a bad marriage going through a bad patch but both spouses are aware the marriage must be maintained and you're seeing Secretary Clinton made some very positive statements about Pakistan just recently after this killing of Osama bin Laden.

Both sides realise that the relationship must be maintained. In Pakistan it would be different. Osama bin Laden was a hugely symbolic figure. He wasn't operational and the Al Qaeda elements are fragmenting into tiny groups. They're killing and playing havoc across Pakistan. That will remain unfortunately. There will be more killings unfortunately, there will be more violence unfortunately, and Pakistan really has to get its act together.

It needs to control the law and order situation. It needs to bring mainstream Pakistanis on board and give them a sense of hope and a sense of direction because there is a sense of drifting and the army, the Pakistan army in this very special relationship with the Government because the army often believes that it is the inheritor of the destiny of Pakistan, the army is also extremely concerned. It has its fears and its traditional anxiety about India on the one border and then there's chaos on the other border and the post-America scenario now developing in Afghanistan.

So there's a lot on the plate of the rulers of Pakistan and they have every reason to be anxious about the coming time.

ALI MOORE: Indeed there is a lot on their plate. Dr Akbar Ahmed thank you so much for being generous and giving us interesting insights into what is a fascinating time.

DR AKBAR AHMED: Thank you and thank you for not giving me as tough a time as you give the Foreign Minister, thank you.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3206969.htm

Peter Lemkin
05-03-2011, 07:45 PM
In 1998 Gadhafi Issued the FIRST Interpol Arrest Warrant against Osama bin Ladin. That Warrant was blocked by MI6,CIA. Just for the record.

Was just going through this thread again....

....now the above is 'interesting'.....!

'interesting' = something the MSM would be unable and unwilling to even discuss; let alone explain.

James H. Fetzer
05-03-2011, 08:39 PM
NOTE: I have added a few more links to important supporting articles

Official story:

Official: Osama bin Laden is dead
www.msnbc.msn.com
Osama bin Laden is dead and US has body, says person familiar with
developments.

For a dissenting view, here's a quote (from "James Henry Fetzer",
facebook):

One of the most blatant acts of bullshit in our nation's history! A
man who could so directly and baldly lie in announcing the death of
a man who died on or about 15 December 2001 could also directly and
baldly lie about his birth certificate! They are announcing that Osama
was taken out by Obama. Now the wars can continue, the predator drones
can keep killing, and no one will care about where Barack was born!

The claim is made that Osama "confessed", when he did nothing of the
sort. In the only authentic interview we have, he explained that he
had nothing to do with 9/11; that he was upset with the US because
it had stationed troops in Saudi Arabia, the home of Mecca and Medina,
the two most holy sites in Islam; that killing innocent women and
children is contrary to the tenets of Islam; and that there is a
government-within-the-government in America that appears to have been
responsible for these atrocities and blaming those acts on Muslims.

Griffin interview:

4PM PT on KPFK 90.7FM Los Angeles (May 4, 2011)
which is heard globally at http://www.KPFK.org)

Latest report:

Osama bin Laden corpse photo is fake (2 May 2011)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-
fake?CMP=twt_fd

Another skeptic:

Osama bin Laden's Second Death (May 2, 2011)
By Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24587

Related article:

"On the Ethical Conduct of Warfare: Predator Drones" (22 February 2011)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23324

Earlier article:

Gordon Duff, CIA HINTS, BIN LADEN DEAD SINCE "EARLY 2000's" (June
29, 2010)
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/06/29/gordon-duff-cia-hints-bin-
laden-dead-since-early-2000s/

Griffin's book:

David Ray Griffin, OSAMA BIL LADEN: DEAD OR ALIVE? (2009)
http://www.amazon.com/Osama-Bin-Laden-Dead-Alive/dp/1566567831

An interview with someone who would know:

Benazir Bhutto: Bin Laden was Murdered (2007)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

FBI acknowledgement:

FBI says, "No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11" (June 10, 2006)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2623

Scholars press release:

28 May 2006 - OSAMA TAPE APPEARS TO BE FAKE, EXPERTS CONCLUDE
http://twilightpines.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&
Itemid=67

Report: Bin Laden Already Dead (December 26, 2001)

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the
Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of
the Al Qaeda leader.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

An interview with a CIA agent the day after 9/11:

CIA veteran doubts the bin Laden story (September 12, 2001)
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/744.html

Ed Jewett
05-03-2011, 08:48 PM
TUESDAY, MAY 03, 2011

Obama's Osama III
"Obama watched Bin Laden raid live"

So everybody watched it as it happened, and they still can't get the story even remotely straight. The attacking team - already mythologized into the stratosphere - had a dead woman to explain, and the fact that Osama ended up dead in a 'shoot out' even though he didn't have a gun.

More discrepancies here. Everything about the information that supposedly tipped off the Americans appears to have been fabricated (possibly to protect sources and operations, but probably because the American authorities are congenital liars).
AT 5/03/2011 12:27:00 PM 0 COMMENTS AND 0 REACTIONS

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2011/05/obamas-osama-iii.html

Malcolm Pryce
05-03-2011, 08:49 PM
It is also prima facie highly unlikely that individuals arrested years ago would have any knowledge of a 2011 "safe house".

And if they did have this knowledge, it would presumably have been water-boarded out of them years ago, so why the delay?

Jack White
05-04-2011, 01:09 AM
I concur with Elias Davidsson:



Barbaric (Written by European author Elias Davidsson):


...by Elias Davidsson on Osama bin Laden's murder



According to mass media, Osama bin Laden was murdered yesterday, on May 1st, 2011. He was murdered with "other family members", whose identity is still unknown. The President of the United States of America took credit for this act of murder. Murder is prohibited in every jurisdiction. It is regarded as a criminal act both under national and international law. President Barack Obama should henceforth be charged for ordering an act of outright murder.



1. Mass media report Americans "celebrating" the murder of Osama bin Laden. CNN reported that a crowd was singing "God Bless America" near Ground Zero and that outside the White House a crowd was "jubilating." Others reportedly sung the national hymn, as if murder was a patriotic act. Celebrating murder is a barbaric practice. Civilized people never condone murder, let alone celebrate it.



2. Osama bin Laden was not charged for any links to 9/11. U.S. leaders did not directly attribute to him the crime of 9/11. In March 2002, President George W. Bush said in a press conference that he was not anymore concerned by the fate or whereabouts Osama bin Laden (OBL). Was he lying, or was bin Laden already dead by that time, as reported in Pakistani media? The FBI admitted in 2006 that it possesses no "hard evidence" to connect OBL to the events of 9/11. This admission was made after a journalist discovered that the FBI fails to mention OBL's nexus to 9/11 on its website. Mass media have deliberately suppressed this lack of evidence, in order to keep the public supporting the war on Afghanistan and the "war on terrorism". President Barack Obama has now demonstrated his mendacity by suggesting that Osama bin Laden was responsible for the mass-murder of 9/11. Those reading the exact wording of his speech - in which he announced the murder of Osama bin Laden - will note that he did not directly link Osama bin Laden for 9/11. He merely suggested this allegation by rhetorical means, the typical conduct of a masterful swindler.



3. Even suspected criminals are entitled to a fair trial. At the very threshold of civilized conduct, persons may be sentenced to death after having been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt by an impartial court for the most odious crimes. Osama bin Laden was accused of many crimes. But he was not proven guilty of any crime in a court of law. He was not charged for any connection to the mass-murder of 9/11. He was widely suspected to pose as a radical Muslim but actually acting for Western intelligence services in discrediting Islam. Whatever he ever said, or is alleged to have said, was, however, no ground for murder. To hound and murder a fugitive - if that was his condition - would make this murder particularly odious.



4. One of the persons murdered yesterday is alleged to have been Osama bin Laden. But this is not certain. According to CNN, an unnamed U.S. official said that bin Laden "was buried at sea". He explained that this was done in order to abide by "the Islamic tradition." How dare people who commit murder claim to have respect for religious traditions, let alone Islam? Do Muslims throw bodies of dead people into the sea? Another claimed that by throwing the body into the sea, the U.S. tried to prevent his burial ground to become a shrine, as if Osama bin Laden was widely perceived as a hero! The swift disposal of his body suggests, however, that the murderers were concerned that the public would discover that the victim was mutilated or that the body did not belong at all to Osama bin Laden.



5. The silence surrounding the identities of the "other family members" who also were murdered, demonstrates the disregard by the U.S. government for human lives. Even if their deaths was not directly desired, it was taken into account. Their killing would be considered under common law as "reckless murder", for which President Barack Obama must be held to account.



6. Congratulations by world leaders for this act of cowardly murder should raise concern to every member of the human family. When national leaders express their satisfaction over an act of outright murder, they forfeit their claim to remain in power. Decent people around the world should seek the removal from public office of any person who commends murder.



7. The murder of a person alleged to be Osama bin Laden is obviously an effort to revive the monstrous lie that Muslims committed the mass-murder of 9/11, a lie that is being increasingly exposed as the 10th anniversary of the mass-murder is approaching. The US government of Barack Obama has decided to enforce this lie by an act of cowardly murder and by further lies. These efforts will not succeed. This episode of evil will be duly documented and justice will prevail. The killers of Osama bin Laden must be charged, prosecuted and punished in order that such acts will not be repeated.



The above text was written under the impact of the shock that befell the author by learning about the cowardly murder and the barbaric sequels to that murder. Those who doubt some of the claims made above are invited to request sources from the author.



Elias Davidsson

Bonn, Germany

2 May 2011, 11:00 a.m. GMT

Jack White
05-04-2011, 01:16 AM
In 1998 Gadhafi Issued the FIRST Interpol Arrest Warrant against Osama bin Ladin. That Warrant was blocked by MI6,CIA. Just for the record.

Was just going through this thread again....

....now the above is 'interesting'.....!

'interesting' = something the MSM would be unable and unwilling to even discuss; let alone explain.

Speaking of INTERPOL, note the following:

Interpol (International Police) The Club of Rome has its own private intelligence agency and also "borrows" from David Rockefeller's INTERPOL. Every U.S. intelligence agency cooperates very closely with it, as does the KGB and the Mossad. The only agency that remained beyond its reach was the East-German intelligence service. the STASSY. The Club of Rome also has its own highly organized political and economic agencies. It was they who told President Reagan to retain the services of Paul Volcker, yet another important Committee of 300 member. Volcker stayed on as Federal Reserve Board chairman, notwithstanding the faithful promise of candidate Reagan that he would dismiss him as soon as he, Reagan, was elected.

1976 February 22, A magazine called "The National Tattler", before they ceased publication, had a hard-hitting story, showing how Nazi war criminals after World War Two, run an international secret police group called Interpol, which specializes in hunting for people with Jewish surnames, often fingering them for minor offenses. In the 1970s, in Chicago, Cook County Under-sheriff, Ross V. Randolph, was Interpol's key man in the Windy City. For many years, holding a top Post-War position also with Nazi-war-criminal-run Interpol, was FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover. Great Secrets of the 20th Century pt 2

Jack White
05-04-2011, 01:23 AM
It turns out Obama, Clinton, and all the other top officials were WATCHING via webcam the murder of OBL in real time on a wall-size screen [with sound]! Think about it..... :hitler: SICK!!!!!!!!:joystick: Remember, the instructions were to murder, not capture [and try in Court] OBL...and Obama calls this 'Justice'.....Justice American Style....now....[kill first, ask questions and hold trial later]. Obama has also declared Manning guilty....we can do away with the judicial system now....we just 'do' 'justice' by fiat......the default verdict is guilty, and the most common sentence is summary execution. :pirate: The undignified, in fact disgusting and disrespectful, [not to mention suspicious!] disposal of the body shows how coldhearted, arrogant, and hateful the Empire has become.

This used to be called LYNCHING. And during the French Revolution
they would have have used the guillotine, with the assembled rabble
chanting OFF WITH HIS HEAD.

Jack

Keith Millea
05-04-2011, 01:43 AM
Someone let me know when they find the dialysis machine.......

I've always called that story Bullshit!

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 01:47 AM
Osama bin Laden and the 911 Illusion

Patsies & Beneficiaries

by Dean Henderson

Part one of a three part series

The alleged killing of Osama bin Laden, which fittingly occurred in his mansion within 1,000 yards of a Pakistani military training academy, could signal the winding down of the biggest psychological warfare operation ever prosecuted by the global oligarchy.

What follows is a three-part investigation of 911 excerpted from my book, Big Oil & Their Bankers in the Persian Gulf: Four Horsemen, Eight Families & Their Global Intelligence, Narcotics & Terror Network.

The Patsies

In the wake of the 911 terror attacks, Americans everywhere recited the collective mantra, “Things will never be the same”. Actually things had changed very little.

Fifteen of the nineteen alleged hijackers were born in Saudi Arabia, where the House of Saud dictatorship has financed Muslim Brotherhood modern-day Assassins and CIA covert operations since its inception for the benefit of the Eight Families banking cartel and their Four Horsemen – whose ARAMCO oilfields are protected via US military occupation of the Kingdom.

The Assassins this time were members of al Qaeda, the cadre of former Afghan mujahadeen fighters that the CIA trained, then used to carry out proxy wars in Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia, Chechnya, Dagestan, Indian Kashmir, East Turkistan Province in China, Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, Somalia, Algeria and Uzbekistan. The CIA brought al Qaeda spiritual leader and Anwar Sadat assassin Sheik Abdul Rahman to the US to recruit Islamic fundamentalists willing to fight in these CIA wars. [1]

Al Qaeda was headed by Osama bin Laden, who built the CIA’s mujahadeen training camps in Afghanistan. Bin Laden was House of Saud point man in recruiting Arab fighters for CIA shenanigans in Central Asia and the Balkans. Bin Laden’s brother Salem was a business partner and good friend of James Bath. His father Mohammed provided seed money for Bath’s good friend George W. Bush’s Arbusto Energy. The bin Laden family fortune was managed by Carlyle Group principal George Bush Sr.

According to a PBS spokeswomen, within three days of 911 both Vice-President Dick Cheney and Queen Elizabeth II called PBS to request copies of two video documentaries the station had done – one on bin Laden and the other on Islam. Since US intelligence knew all it needed to know of their foot soldier bin Laden, Cheney and Her Majesty were more concerned with what the US public had already been told of the Saudi paymaster so they could factor this into their forthcoming public relations blitz.

Bin Laden’s second in command Ayman al-Zawahiri heads Egyptian Islamic Jihad – a Muslim Brotherhood front whose assassins had help from the CIA in escaping justice in Egypt so they could go to Albania to fight with the Kosovo Liberation Army. Al-Zawahiri’s sidekick Ali Mohammed came to the US in 1984. He trained terrorists in Brooklyn and Jersey City on weekends and instructed US Special Forces at Fort Bragg. [2] He was later involved in the US Embassy bombings in Africa.

According to the FBI, five of the nineteen alleged 911 hijackers were trained by the US military – three at Pensacola Naval Air Station and two at other facilities. [3]

Alleged 911 ring leader Mohammed Atta received the $100,000 he needed to plan and carry out the terror attacks from Standard Chartered accounts in gold bullion haven Dubai – where US Naval vessels often berth. Standard Chartered was founded by the Illuminated Cecil Rhodes. The bank is one of five London “gold-fixers” and prints Hong Kong’s currency. These accounts were controlled by 911 paymaster and UAE citizen Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi.

According to British MP Michael Meacher in an article for The Guardian, M16 recruited up to 200 British Muslims to fight in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia. Meacher says a Dehli-based foundation describes Omar Saeed Sheikh – the man who beheaded US journalist Daniel Pearl in 2002 – as a British agent.

Meacher says it was Sheikh who – at the behest of Pakistani ISI General Mahmood Ahmed – had al-Hawsawi wire $100,000 to Mohammed Atta before 911, a fact confirmed by Dennis Lomel, director of the FBI’s financial crimes unit. [4] An October 11, 2001 article in The Times of India also corroborates this.

At a June 25, 2002 conference in Calgary, University of Ottawa Economics Professor Michel Chossudovsky and former Los Angeles police officer Michael Ruppert further corroborated this information based on ABC News reports. They added that ISI Chief Ahmad was in Washington on September 4, 2001 meeting with CIA Director George Tenet, Assistant Secretary of State Richard Armitage, Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) and the heads of two Congressional intelligence committees. [5]

The New York Times reported on February 17, 2002 that the two congressmen Ahmed met with were Joint Senate Intelligence Committee Co-Chairs, Florida Senators Bob Graham and Porter Goss. Goss is a former CIA operative and was appointed Bush Jr. CIA Director in 2004.

When President Clinton and Defense Secretary Cohen had earlier pressed UAE officials to crack down on the al Qaeda money shuffle, a senior UAE sheik told them it was difficult to discern between criminal money and that going to fight CIA proxy wars in Bosnia and Chechnya. [6]

Ruppert cited a BBC report by Gregg Palast that details how the Bush Administration ordered curtailment of an FBI investigation of the bin Laden family. Minneapolis FBI whistle-blower Colleen Rowley and Robert Wright – who worked for the bureau in Chicago – described the same unnamed superior who “obstructed”, “deliberately thwarted” and “intimidated” their attempts to track down US-based al Qaeda operatives.

Wright was investigating an al Qaeda money laundering ring based in Chicago that may have been plugged into the Nugan Hand/Bank of Cicero/CIA/P-2 black network based in Chicago – often disguising its dirty transactions via the freewheeling Chicago Mercantile Exchange.

Chossudovsky stated his belief that 911 served the US in its quest to control both Central Asian oil supplies and the Afghan opium trade. He told the Calgary crowd, “Osama bin Laden is and remains to this day a CIA asset. Even now his al Qaeda operatives are working with the Kosovo Liberation Army who are US allies and with the US-backed forces in Macedonia. Members of al Qaeda have been protected as they moved into Kashmir where they are now fomenting conflict between India and Pakistan.”[7]

Many of the alleged hijackers were in the country on legitimate US visas. Most were issued at the US consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. According to Mike Springmann, Chief of the Visa Section at Jeddah during the late 1980’s, CIA officials ran roughshod over the visa operation, often overruling Springmann’s decisions not to issue visas to people he considered dangerous. Often CIA officials would stamp the questionable applicants’ visas themselves in clear violation of US law. [8]

Bush blocked Secret Service investigations into US-based al-Qaeda terrorist “sleeper” cells while he continued to negotiate secretly with Afghan Taliban officials. The last meeting, headed by Bush NSA and former Unocal official Zalmay Khalilzad, was in August 2001, just five weeks before the terror attacks. [9] The Unocal-led consortium offered the Taliban, through current Afghan President Hamid Kharzai, $100 million to run its natural gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to the Indian Ocean. The Bush team offered additional aid to the Taliban, whom they’d already given over $132 million in 2001, and told them, “You either accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs.”[10]

Considering the history of CIA/Four Horsemen/Eight Families treachery in the Middle East and the toll these schemes have taken on the Arab world, one could easily interpret 911 as an Arab response to US imperialism. The trouble is that explanation defies the facts.

Mohammed Atta’s father, a prominent Cairo physician, said his son was afraid of flying and insists that he was not a trained pilot. Atta believes his son was kidnapped and made a patsy by the Israeli Mossad. He believes Israelis used his son and the other 18 Arabs’ identities as cover to carry out the 911 plot because this would turn Americans against the Arab world, enhance the Israeli bargaining position vis-à-vis the Palestinians and draw the US further into the Middle Eastern cauldron. Atta’s father stated, “This was done by Mossad using American pilots.”

Lending credence to the doctor’s charges is the assertion that the official passenger flight logs for all four American and United flights that became fuel-air bombs on 911 listed no Arab passengers. [11] The Dallas Morning News reported that in July 2001 a federal task force pulled the plug on over 500 Arab websites in the US when they raided InfoCom Corporation in Texas. Did the Feds want to silence cyber-chat concerning the actual whereabouts of the “hijackers”? Reports emerged from the Arab world that many of them had been sighted after 911.

According to Daniel Hopsicker who wrote, Welcome to Terrorland..., Mohamed Atta began working for the US government in Hamburg in 1992. He was later enrolled in an elite officer training course at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, AL. Hopsicker says Atta had pilot licenses from six countries and wonders why, except to establish a paper trail, he would even have needed to attend flight school. [12]

Atta spoke Hebrew, snorted coke and lived with a stripper. He met with various German and Swiss nationals just prior to 911 and was part of an email discussion on the Middle East that included numerous employees of US defense contractors. Atta and up to seven other 911 hijackers had received flight training at US military facilities.

Most interestingly, Atta was part of an elite international exchange program run by the American/German Congress-Bundestag Program – an organization with close ties to both David Rockefeller and Henry Kissinger. The group funded Atta trips to Istanbul, Cairo and Damascus; where he played the role of Islamic fundamentalist. [13]

Rep. Curt Weldon (R-PA) wrote in his 2005 book that two weeks after 911 he presented a chart to the Bush Administration showing that Atta and other hijackers were being monitored as part of the Pentagon’s Able Danger program. In September 2006 the Pentagon Inspector General put out a statement denying Atta’s existence on this chart. An infuriated Weldon stated, “I am appalled that the DOD IG would expect the American people to actually consider this a full and thorough investigation”. [14]

The Florida flight school where the 911 hijackers trained was Huffman Aviation – co-owned by Bill Clinton chum Wally Hilliard and Rudy Dekkers, who met with Atta less than one month prior to 911. One Huffman employee told Hopsicker, “Early on I gleaned that these guys had government protection…They were let into the country for a specific purpose. It was a business deal.”

Huffman’s hangar at Venice Airport is used to maintain the planes of Caribe Air, a known CIA-front airline which had twenty of its planes seized by federal authorities at Mena, AR after they were found to have curried billions of dollars worth of contra cocaine. Hopsicker says Caribe could also be tied to Enron, since many of that now-defunct company’s Caribbean tax shelters had the word “Caribe” in their name. 15]

The Beneficiaries

While much of the Arab world’s mainstream media echoed Atta’s father’s viewpoint, all US media – corporate and progressive alike – dismissed these claims as “outrageous conspiracy theories”. Yet no one could deny that Israel gained a great deal from the 911 attacks. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon – wanted in Belgium for war crimes – began targeting Palestinian leaders for assassination as soon as Bush took office, causing US public support for Israel to wane.

Sharon used 911 to turn the tide, labeling all Palestinians, “bin Laden terrorists”, and occupying yet more Palestinian territory. Bush sent General Anthony Zinni to Tel Aviv as Middle East envoy to lend legitimacy to Sharon’s aggression, while refusing to deal with Palestinian President Yasser Arafat. The Samuel Huntington CFR Clash of Civilizations crowd had their pretext for a global war against Arabs and Muslims.

US defense giants reaped the 911 harvest. In October 2001 Lockheed Martin led a consortium of corporations awarded the largest single defense contract ever – a $200 billion deal to build an F-35 joint strike fighter. The Lockheed-led group included Northrup Grumman and several British companies including British Aerospace and Rolls Royce. [16] Amidst the post-911 flag-waving frenzy, the all-American bidder McDonnell Douglas would have seemed a more discretionary choice.

Defense stocks surged. Raytheon stock was up 36% in the month following 911 while the rest of the stock market crashed. The hawks and their generals pushed for huge Pentagon budget increases, some advocating a $500 billion defense budget by 2005. In January 2002, President Bush approved a defense budget of $317 billion. Three weeks later he increased it to $379 billion, while setting a marker for a $471 billion defense budget by 2007.

The money will line the pockets of the Eight Families banking cartel which owns the defense companies, pockets already deepened by Bush tax cut and the subsequent increase in US debt – which the international bankers make a healthy living financing. Their point man Bush – cousin to the House of Windsor – saw his dismal approval ratings skyrocket to over 80% as a fear-driven US public rallied around the Four Horsemen President.

The Rockefeller-controlled airlines, near bankruptcy before 911, glad-handed their way to a $15 billion taxpayer bailout. The insurance industry, railroads and travel industry soon got in line at the government trough; their phony far-right anti-government venom temporarily muted.

The CIA was a major 911 beneficiary, marching out an array of “old hands” like Richard Armitage, General Barry McCafferty and United Brands grant recipient Major Andy Messing to extol the virtues of dealing with unsavory underworld characters when gathering intelligence. The Clinton Administration had clamped down on this common CIA practice after revelations of CIA involvement in the Guatemalan death squad murders of American citizens. CIA torture chambers were once again open for business.

Global civil liberties were a major casualty of 911. Within a week of the attacks Bush Attorney General John Ashcroft announced plans to unleash the CIA and FBI, expanding and combining their already sweeping powers. With no public debate and near unanimous Congressional approval – despite the fact that not one Congress member read it – Bush gleefully signed the ironically-titled USA Patriot Act into law, suspending big chunks of the US Constitution and bringing the nation a step closer to outright martial law. Similar legislation was passed in numerous other countries.

Section 802 of the Patriot Act designated a federal crime broadly defined as “domestic terrorism”, which cast a broad net over political dissidents and seemed especially targeted at the growing ranks of WTO/IMF protestors who have taken a frontal assault on the Eight Families. Section 411 posed an ideological litmus test for foreigners wishing to come to the US in a direct affront to the First Amendment. Section 215 obliterated the Fourth Amendment, allowing the FBI to obtain a court order to seize a person’s “tangible things”, including books, documents and computer disks; without suspecting that person of wrongdoing and without informing that person of the seizure until well after the fact. Section 218 gave the FBI a green light to spy on domestic “enemies” and threatened to return the US to the dark days of J. Edgar Hoover. [17]

Later Ashcroft marched out his new TIPS program, which encouraged mailmen, utility workers and neighbors to spy on their fellow citizens. In November 2002 the Bush Administration pushed through the new Homeland Security Act, whose name conjures memories of Hitler’s Office of Fatherland Security, which he established within one month of the staged Reichstag fire and later became the SS. [18]

One provision of the act created an Information Awareness Office, which would compile a computer database on every American. The office emerged from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency – a JASON Society affiliate - that earlier spawned both the Internet and stealth technology. Heading the office was Admiral John Poindexter, the five-count convicted felon of Iran/Contra fame.

The Center for Public Integrity revealed an even more draconian version of the Patriot Act being drafted at Georgetown University. Dubbed the Domestic Security Enhancement Act, the draft called for secret arrests – never before allowed in US history – and carte blanche deportation of legal immigrants. Another provision allowed chemical companies to quit disclosing toxic emissions to the communities in which they operated.

As of February 2003 there had been over 300 rollbacks of the Freedom of Information Act. [19] In 2004 Patriot Act II passed. Provisions included a National ID. In 2003 the General Accounting Office dropped its lawsuit against Vice President Cheney, which would have forced him to reveal which energy executives he met with secretly to craft the Bush Energy policy. The right of US citizens to acquire information by which they could hold their government accountable was seriously eroded by the events of 911 and the culture of secrecy that emerged in its aftermath.

But it was the Eight Families banking cartel that had the most to gain from dialing 911. The day of the terror attacks there was an unusually heavy volume of financial transactions being handled at the WTC. The bulk of investment bankers killed in the WTC worked for competitors of the Big Six old money investment banks. Cantor Fitzgerald was particularly hard hit.

Merrill Lynch had its own building nearby, as did Deutsche Bank. Lehman Brothers moved from the WTC to a newly built headquarters just prior 911. Only seven weeks before 911 a group of wealthy oligarch investors terminated their lease on the WTC. Investor Larry Silverstein bought a 99-year lease on the property in July 2001, while the old money slid out from under it. Silverstein filed a $7.2 billion insurance claim after the tragedy. The Eight Families insurance companies involved offered only $3.6 billion.

The President’s brother, Marvin Bush, was on the board of directors at Securacom – now Stratesec – from 1993-2000. The company provided security for the WTC, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines. It had the security contract at Los Alamos Laboratories, when there had been a number of security breaches at that facility. The firm is backed by a Kuwaiti-American investment firm known as KuwAm. Current clients include the US Army, US Navy, US Air Force and Department of Justice. They carry a Blanket Purchase Agreement with the GSA – meaning that no other company can compete for these security contracts.

According to David Icke’s bombshell book Children of the Matrix, Securacom is a subsidiary of Crown Agency- a British Crown entity which Icke says also owns the Agha Khan Foundation. Khan is based in Pakistan and is spiritual torch-bearer for Islamism, from which groups like al Qaeda and the Taliban take their cues. This important fact points to Buckingham Palace involvement in the prosecution of 911.

Marvin Bush also sat on the board at HCC Insurance Holdings until November 2002. That company carried some of the insurance on the WTC. Brother Jeb – Governor of Florida – declared a state of emergency in his state one week prior to 911. He personally escorted the alleged hijackers' flight school documents to Washington, DC shortly after the attacks. [20]

New York Mayor Rudolf Guliani was portrayed as the hero of 911. Yet on November 2, 2001 Guliani ordered New York firefighters to thin their ranks at ground zero. The day before, 200 tons of gold buried in vaults beneath the WTC belonging to Silver Triangle gold kingpin/drug money laundry Bank of Nova Scotia was recovered. Gold prices soon began their meteoric rise. The Bank of Nova Scotia has extensive ties to both Israel and the House of Windsor.

No one in the fawning corporate media bothered to ask Guliani where that gold went. Nor did they ask him why. According to Internet reports, he had ordered 6,000 gallons of fuel stored beneath WTC #7 to supply his personal bomb shelter. [21]

The explosion of this fuel may have caused WTC #7 – which was clearly not hit by an airplane – to collapse, destroying sensitive Enron-related CIA and FBI documents stored there. The CIA ran an undercover station on the 47th floor of #7. The 23rd and 24th floors of the WTC North Tower housed FBI covert operations and boatloads of agency documents.

Louie Cacchioli, a firefighter with Engine 47 in Harlem said he was in an elevator to the spook-occupied 24th floor of the North Tower, when he heard explosions. His crew – the first in that building – believes bombs were set off inside the towers.

In a statement to the Albuquerque Journal shortly after the disaster, Van Romero, Vice-President for Research at the world-renowned New Mexico Institute for Mining and Technology, agreed. Romero, one of the world’s foremost demolitions experts, stated, “My opinion is, based on the videotapes, that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse.”[22]

Numerous experts agreed that jet fuel alone burns too fast to have melted the massive steel structure of the WTC on its own. The orderly nature of the collapse of both towers also begged inquiry. The contractor awarded the $7 billion job of cleaning up the WTC rubble was eerily named Controlled Demolition – the same outfit that quickly disposed of the evidence of the Alfred T. Murrah Federal Building after the Oklahoma City bombing.

WTC scrap metal was expeditiously shipped to China. Brigham Young physics Professor Steven Jones, who studied the WTC rubble, says he found traces of thermite explosives all over the stuff. In September 2006, Brigham Young placed Jones on paid leave for his efforts at seeking the truth.

Was Time’s 2001 Man of the Year Rudy Guliani part of a covert operation to consolidate Crown/Eight Families control over Persian Gulf and Central Asian oil? In February 2002 Guliani was knighted by Queen Elizabeth II.

Next Week: Part II: Deutsche Bank & the Carlyle Group


Notes

[1] “Bin Laden’s Invisible Network”. Evan Thomas. Newsweek. 10-29-01. p.42
[2] Ibid
[3] “Bush: We’re at War”. Evan Thomas an Mark Hosenball. Newsweek. 9-24-01. p.31
[4] The Asian News. 9-30-05. www.theasiannews.co.uk
[5] “US Complicity in 9-11 Attacks Widely Accepted at G6B Summit in Canada”. www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/g6b_calgary.html
[6] “Emirates Looked the Other Way While al Qaeda Funds Flowed”. Judy Pasternak and Stephen Braun. Los Angeles Times. 1-20-02
[7] Ibid
[8] “The Hand that Rules the Visa Machine Rules the World”. J. Michael Springmann. Covert Action Quarterly. Winter 2001. p.41
[9] “US Ties to Saudi Elite May be Hurtng War on Terrorism”. Jonathan Wells, Jack Meyers and Maggie Mulvihill. Boston Herald Online. 12-10-01
[10] Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth. Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie. Paris. 2001
[11] Taking Aim. Vol. 7. #9
[12] “Lost in Translation”. Len Bracken. Paranoia. Issue 36. Fall 2004.
[13] “911 and Peculiar Behavior”. Al Hidell and Joan d’Arc. Paranoia. Issue 37. Winter 2005
[14] “Probe Refutes Report on Hijacker”. Josh White. Washington Post. 9-21-06
[15] “Paranotes: Flight School CIA Connection”. Al Hidell. Paranoia. Issue 32. Spring 2003
[16] CNN Headline News. 10-26-01
[17] “The USA Patriot Act”. Nancy Chang. Covert Action Quarterly. Winter 2001. p.14-17
[18] Taking Aim. Vol. 7. #10
[19] “Now with Bill Moyers”. PBS. 2-7-03
[20] “Part II of Exposing the WTC Bomb Plot”. Fintan Dunne and Kathy McMahon. news@psyopnews.com
[21] Robert.lederman@worldnet.att.net
[22] Taking Aim. Vol. 7 #10

Dean Henderson is the author of Big Oil & Their Bankers in the Persian Gulf: Four Horsemen, Eight Families & Their Global Intelligence, Narcotics & Terror Network and The Grateful Unrich: Revolution in 50 Countries. His Left Hook blog is at www.deanhenderson.wordpress.com

E:book: www.smashwords.com/17076
‎3rd Edition Paperback (466 pages): www.createspace.com/3476183

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24612

Magda Hassan
05-04-2011, 02:03 AM
It was called Operation Geronimo, hey? I wonder if any bit of Bin Laden's body will end up at Yale University's secret society just like the original Geronimo. :lol:

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 02:09 AM
PREDICTED IN MARCH 2010: Staging bin Laden's 'Death'

by Enver Masud

Global Research, May 2, 2011
The Wisdom Fund - 2010-03-25

t appears that we are being primed for the "death" of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

Attorney General Eric Holder told a House panel this month [March 2010] that bin Laden "will never appear in an American courtroom."
[ http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/17/us-usa-binladen-idUSTRE62G4MX20100317 ]

Others who have examined the evidence, and the "bin Laden tapes," have concluded that bin Laden is dead.

US Defense Secretary Robert Gates admitted that the US has had no reliable information on the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden in years. [ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8397684.stm ]

But the US needs a neat ending to its war on Afghanistan.

Staging bin Laden's death will be seen as a fitting end to this genocidal war for the control [ http://www.twf.org/News/Y2003/1020-Game.html ] of energy resources. Of course it will have to be done so that visual identification is not possible.

We suspect that when bin Laden is "killed," we'll just have to trust the folks that lied us into war to confirm they got him.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24595

About: Enver Masud
Email : staff@twf.org
Website : http://www.twf.org
Enver Masud, an engineer, served as Acting Chief of the Strategic and Emergency Planning Branch at the U.S. Department of Energy, set up and directed the Operations Review Division at the Iowa Commerce Commission, and has consulted for the U.S. Agency for International Development and the World Bank in Indonesia, Pakistan, Russia. He is the founder of The Wisdom Fund (TWF.org). His book “9/11 Unveiled” is a free download at The Wisdom Fund. He may be contacted at staff@twf.org.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Masud

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 02:14 AM
A lengthy multi-media article (pictures, videos, links) by Michel Chussodovsky at GlobalResearch.ca entitled "9/11 ANALYSIS: From Ronald Reagan and the Soviet-Afghan War to George W Bush and September 11, 2001" and headlined with the title "Osama bin Laden: A Creation of the CIA" can be found here:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20958

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 03:07 AM
Oscar-winning writer/producer Mark Boal is busy turning Osama bin Laden's death into a dramatic climax for his upcoming screenplay about the search for the al-Qaida leader.

Boal and his The Hurt Locker partner and director Kathryn Bigelow have been working on the script about operatives on the hunt for bin Laden since they won the Academy Awards for the 2009 war movie and now they have a solid ending, according to a Variety exclusive.

Their new film reportedly centres on the team that wound up killing bin Laden on Sunday.

Sources close to Boal tell Variety that the fire-fight at the compound in Pakistan where bin Laden was found and killed will feature in the film.

The publication reports Boal had been following the mission to seek out bin Laden, thanks to his access to military intelligence.

Casting for the hard-hitting movie is underway and Bigelow is expected to start shooting this summer.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/05/03/bin-laden-hunt-movie-in-works

Magda Hassan
05-04-2011, 04:16 AM
This explains the timing. As we here know some people actually do read all the volumes of the Warren Commission and with the release of the Guantanamo files it becomes apparent that the US has known Abbottabad was a safe place and that he was there. So, the brave and fearless Seals were called in to eliminate the inconvenient former US employee. Looks like poor old Osama really was the only person to die as a consequences of the cables being leaked.

Embassy silent over WikiLeaks bin Laden connection


BY CHRIS JOHNSON, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
04 May, 2011 04:00 AM
The United States Government will not say if the plan to raid the Pakistan compound harbouring Osama bin Laden was brought forward because of the recent WikiLeaks publication of Guantanamo Bay files.WikiLeaks, along with several news organisations, last week began publishing the first of 779 secret documents about detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
The leaks started on April 25 and contained classified interviews, analyses and memos. Within a week of WikiLeaks' initial Guantanamo releases bin Laden was dead, following a fire-fight when US forces raided his compound at Abbottabad.
It is now known that details of the courier who the CIA followed to bin Laden were obtained from detainees at Guantanamo.
But it is not known how much, if any, of that information was contained in WikiLeaks files yet to be published.
The United States Embassy in Canberra will not say if there was a concern that WikiLeaks information could have been publicly issued that would have jeopardised the plan to get bin Laden.
Ambassador Jeffrey Bleich declined to comment when asked by The Canberra Times yesterday if the timeline of the operation had been affected by WikiLeaks.
And an embassy spokeswoman said she could not say if WikiLeaks had any impact at all on the bin Laden operation or if the schedule had been changed.
US President Barack Obama has confirmed that initial intelligence of bin Laden's whereabouts came to him in August last year, but it took some months to shore up the information and plan the attack.
From April last year WikiLeaks had been publishing various files against the wishes of the US Government, escalating in November with the publication of highly embarrassing US State Department diplomatic cables.
The ambassador briefed the Australian Government on the contents of some of those files.
But the Government would not say if it had been briefed more recently about the WikiLeaks Guantanamo Bay files or if the bin Laden operation was affected by them.
''The Government does not comment on intelligence matters, or the details of diplomatic conversations,'' a spokeswoman for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade said yesterday.
White House officials said the plan to raid bin Laden's compound intensified in March.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/world/world/general/embassy-silent-over-wikileaks-bin-laden-connection/2152097.aspx

Magda Hassan
05-04-2011, 04:22 AM
Looks like Osama was not the only one finding safe haven there. Also from the Guanatanamo files.


WikiLeaks had revealed Abbottabad as a safe haven

Usman Manzoor
(http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintWriterName.aspx?ID=13&URL=Usman%20Manzoor) Wednesday, May 04, 2011



ISLAMABAD: Abbottabad, one of the beautiful hill stations of Pakistan, has remained under strict check of the security agencies during the last few years as not only Osama bin Laden but a few other high profile al-Qaeda suspects have also resided or visited the area deeming it to be a safe haven. A Guantanamo Bay file recently released by WikiLeaks and stories published in The News also endorse that terrorists have been residing and visiting Abbottabad.

A press release issued by Foreign Office on Tuesday says: “Abbottabad and the surrounding areas have been under sharp focus of intelligence agencies since 2003 resulting in highly technical operation by ISI which led to the arrest of high value al-Qaeda target in 2004. As far as the target compound is concerned, ISI had been sharing information with CIA and other friendly intelligence agencies since 2009. The intelligence flow indicating some foreigners in the surroundings of Abbottabad, continued till mid April 2011.”

WikiLeaks released documents of Guantanamo Bay a few days ago in which one of the high profile leader of al-Qaeda, Abu al-Libi who was a messenger of Osama bin Laden during investigation revealed that his job was to provide safe havens to al-Qaeda and in 2003 he shifted to Abbottabad with family.

“In October 2002, Nashwan Abd al-Razzaq Abd al-Baqi, aka (Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi), contacted and asked detainee (Libi) to work with him in Peshawar. Detainee accepted the offer and spent the next five to six months working under Al-Baqi organizing the purchase of supplies for fighters including medicine, lights, batteries, food, and clothing. In July 2003, detainee received a letter from Osama bin Laden’s designated courier, Maulawi Abd al-Khaliq Jan, requesting detainee to take on the responsibility of collecting donations, organizing travel, and distributing funds to families in Pakistan. Bin Laden stated detainee would be the official messenger between him and others in Pakistan.”

“In mid-2003, detainee moved his family to Abbottabad and worked between Abbottabad and Peshawar.” “Between August 2003 and February 2004, detainee travelled to Shkai, Pakistan on three occasions. While at Shkai, detainee met with al-Qaeda’s Sharia Council, delivered funds to fighters and met with Hamza Rabia.

In mid 2004, detainee moved his family from Abbottabad to Bajaur. During October 2004, detainee received a letter from Bin Laden asking about the financial situations in Pakistan and Waziristan. In addition to the letter, there was a video tape of Bin Laden speeches.”

Moreover Libi was not the only person who visited Abbottabad, according to Senior Crime Reporter Shakeel Anjum’s story published in The News in October 2010, intelligence agencies captured a top leader of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), N.A.Z (identity hiding due to security reasons), landed in Islamabad to amplify the wave of terrorism in Punjab and federal capital territory. N.A.Z is said to be a foreigner and has assigned as chief planner of terrorist activities in Punjab and federal capital territory.

The one of three top kingpins of TTP arrived, through Abbottabad, at a hamlet around Manaal bafflingly during the last week of October but the intelligence agencies located his position in Talhaarh, a hamlet located at north hills of the federal capital. He left Talhaar and his position was, later, found in Chak Gah, a small village located in declivity of Manaal.

The suspect adopted the route to enter federal capital territory very tricky and hard. He reached Mardan to leave for Mansehra on vehicle and arrived at Khanpur via Haripur and then Talhaar via Lora (Abbottabad), located in the mountain of Margalla but falling in the jurisdiction of KP. The Margalla Hills were put under strict surveillance after this incident.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=5757&Cat=13&dt=5/4/2011

Peter Lemkin
05-04-2011, 04:52 AM
Osama bin Laden and the 911 Illusion

Patsies & Beneficiaries

by Dean Henderson

Part one of a three part series

Very interesting article, full of good stuff. A few minor points I'd take some issue with, but on the whole, he's got it pretty much correct.... His painting of the 'control group', to my thinking, is a little too small and 'tight', but it does include all he mentions. It doesn't paint a very pretty picture of those who claim to rule us, does it! I still can't believe all the Sheeple who buy the official story of 911 and the 'War on Terror' now everywhere again in interviews. I still think something big is up for the very near future.....:spy: Just clearing up the old op, for the new.

Interesting the temporal connection between the mission on the safe-house they knew about all along and the GITMO papers.....that needs more work.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 05:13 AM
This is a complex, multi-faceted psy op, Magda, and you, alas, have been taken in.


This explains the timing. As we here know some people actually do read all the volumes of the Warren Commission and with the release of the Guantanamo files it becomes apparent that the US has known Abbottabad was a safe place and that he was there. So, the brave and fearless Seals were called in to eliminate the inconvenient former US employee. Looks like poor old Osama really was the only person to die as a consequences of the cables being leaked.

Embassy silent over WikiLeaks bin Laden connection

BY CHRIS JOHNSON, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
04 May, 2011 04:00 AM
The United States Government will not say if the plan to raid the Pakistan compound harbouring Osama bin Laden was brought forward because of the recent WikiLeaks publication of Guantanamo Bay files.WikiLeaks, along with several news organisations, last week began publishing the first of 779 secret documents about detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
The leaks started on April 25 and contained classified interviews, analyses and memos. Within a week of WikiLeaks' initial Guantanamo releases bin Laden was dead, following a fire-fight when US forces raided his compound at Abbottabad.
It is now known that details of the courier who the CIA followed to bin Laden were obtained from detainees at Guantanamo.
But it is not known how much, if any, of that information was contained in WikiLeaks files yet to be published.
The United States Embassy in Canberra will not say if there was a concern that WikiLeaks information could have been publicly issued that would have jeopardised the plan to get bin Laden.
Ambassador Jeffrey Bleich declined to comment when asked by The Canberra Times yesterday if the timeline of the operation had been affected by WikiLeaks.
And an embassy spokeswoman said she could not say if WikiLeaks had any impact at all on the bin Laden operation or if the schedule had been changed.
US President Barack Obama has confirmed that initial intelligence of bin Laden's whereabouts came to him in August last year, but it took some months to shore up the information and plan the attack.
From April last year WikiLeaks had been publishing various files against the wishes of the US Government, escalating in November with the publication of highly embarrassing US State Department diplomatic cables.
The ambassador briefed the Australian Government on the contents of some of those files.
But the Government would not say if it had been briefed more recently about the WikiLeaks Guantanamo Bay files or if the bin Laden operation was affected by them.
''The Government does not comment on intelligence matters, or the details of diplomatic conversations,'' a spokeswoman for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade said yesterday.
White House officials said the plan to raid bin Laden's compound intensified in March.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/world/world/general/embassy-silent-over-wikileaks-bin-laden-connection/2152097.aspx

Peter Lemkin
05-04-2011, 07:18 AM
This is a complex, multi-faceted psy op, Magda, and you, alas, have been taken in.


This explains the timing. As we here know some people actually do read all the volumes of the Warren Commission and with the release of the Guantanamo files it becomes apparent that the US has known Abbottabad was a safe place and that he was there. So, the brave and fearless Seals were called in to eliminate the inconvenient former US employee. Looks like poor old Osama really was the only person to die as a consequences of the cables being leaked.

Embassy silent over WikiLeaks bin Laden connection

BY CHRIS JOHNSON, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
04 May, 2011 04:00 AM
The United States Government will not say if the plan to raid the Pakistan compound harbouring Osama bin Laden was brought forward because of the recent WikiLeaks publication of Guantanamo Bay files.WikiLeaks, along with several news organisations, last week began publishing the first of 779 secret documents about detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
The leaks started on April 25 and contained classified interviews, analyses and memos. Within a week of WikiLeaks' initial Guantanamo releases bin Laden was dead, following a fire-fight when US forces raided his compound at Abbottabad.
It is now known that details of the courier who the CIA followed to bin Laden were obtained from detainees at Guantanamo.
But it is not known how much, if any, of that information was contained in WikiLeaks files yet to be published.
The United States Embassy in Canberra will not say if there was a concern that WikiLeaks information could have been publicly issued that would have jeopardised the plan to get bin Laden.
Ambassador Jeffrey Bleich declined to comment when asked by The Canberra Times yesterday if the timeline of the operation had been affected by WikiLeaks.
And an embassy spokeswoman said she could not say if WikiLeaks had any impact at all on the bin Laden operation or if the schedule had been changed.
US President Barack Obama has confirmed that initial intelligence of bin Laden's whereabouts came to him in August last year, but it took some months to shore up the information and plan the attack.
From April last year WikiLeaks had been publishing various files against the wishes of the US Government, escalating in November with the publication of highly embarrassing US State Department diplomatic cables.
The ambassador briefed the Australian Government on the contents of some of those files.
But the Government would not say if it had been briefed more recently about the WikiLeaks Guantanamo Bay files or if the bin Laden operation was affected by them.
''The Government does not comment on intelligence matters, or the details of diplomatic conversations,'' a spokeswoman for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade said yesterday.
White House officials said the plan to raid bin Laden's compound intensified in March.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/world/world/general/embassy-silent-over-wikileaks-bin-laden-connection/2152097.aspx


Jim, with due respect...I'm not 100% convinced as to when he was killed - now or long ago....but either way one needs to explain why they staged the 'killing of OBL' now; and in the manner and location they did! I agree there is much evidence that he's been dead quite a while.....the non-capture and immediate and irrecoverable manner of the 'body disposal' make it all seem that much more suspicious! I wonder if we'll ever be allowed to hear from those who survived the attack. They are notably absent from the 'stage'. Also, the changed story of 'OBL' first resisting with a weapon and then not having a weapon are all very suspicious.....I think the whole story from anti-Soviet days to today smells of lies and disinformation. Our deep political state does not trade in truth...not even their derivatives and futures.

Magda Hassan
05-04-2011, 07:39 AM
This is a complex, multi-faceted psy op, Magda, and you, alas, have been taken in.


This explains the timing. As we here know some people actually do read all the volumes of the Warren Commission and with the release of the Guantanamo files it becomes apparent that the US has known Abbottabad was a safe place and that he was there. So, the brave and fearless Seals were called in to eliminate the inconvenient former US employee. Looks like poor old Osama really was the only person to die as a consequences of the cables being leaked.

Embassy silent over WikiLeaks bin Laden connection

BY CHRIS JOHNSON, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
04 May, 2011 04:00 AM
The United States Government will not say if the plan to raid the Pakistan compound harbouring Osama bin Laden was brought forward because of the recent WikiLeaks publication of Guantanamo Bay files.WikiLeaks, along with several news organisations, last week began publishing the first of 779 secret documents about detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
The leaks started on April 25 and contained classified interviews, analyses and memos. Within a week of WikiLeaks' initial Guantanamo releases bin Laden was dead, following a fire-fight when US forces raided his compound at Abbottabad.
It is now known that details of the courier who the CIA followed to bin Laden were obtained from detainees at Guantanamo.
But it is not known how much, if any, of that information was contained in WikiLeaks files yet to be published.
The United States Embassy in Canberra will not say if there was a concern that WikiLeaks information could have been publicly issued that would have jeopardised the plan to get bin Laden.
Ambassador Jeffrey Bleich declined to comment when asked by The Canberra Times yesterday if the timeline of the operation had been affected by WikiLeaks.
And an embassy spokeswoman said she could not say if WikiLeaks had any impact at all on the bin Laden operation or if the schedule had been changed.
US President Barack Obama has confirmed that initial intelligence of bin Laden's whereabouts came to him in August last year, but it took some months to shore up the information and plan the attack.
From April last year WikiLeaks had been publishing various files against the wishes of the US Government, escalating in November with the publication of highly embarrassing US State Department diplomatic cables.
The ambassador briefed the Australian Government on the contents of some of those files.
But the Government would not say if it had been briefed more recently about the WikiLeaks Guantanamo Bay files or if the bin Laden operation was affected by them.
''The Government does not comment on intelligence matters, or the details of diplomatic conversations,'' a spokeswoman for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade said yesterday.
White House officials said the plan to raid bin Laden's compound intensified in March.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/world/world/general/embassy-silent-over-wikileaks-bin-laden-connection/2152097.aspx

Jim, it may be any sort of pseudo Osama. I have no trust in the US government. There is no body, no snuff movie shown though one exists apparently, no witnesses (accessible and talking). The soldiers used may be deployed else where and 'killed in combat' later in case they decide to have a talk to God moment and spill the beans. I don't pretend to know what happened. I too suspect he died long ago but regardless if he was dead 10 years ago or just 2 days ago for some reason the US wants to make a big show of seemingly doing away with the evil Moriarty Bin Laden. My point was why now? If the just released cables show that Abbottabad is a well known safe haven where high ranking Al CIAda members have found refuge or been given deluxe house arrest by the ISI then it will be apparent to all and sundry that the US has been complicit in keeping Bin Laden free and alive. By running the recent stage show it provides so much spectacle bread and circuses for the masses to be distracted indefinitely. They have also set up the stage for reprisals, staged or genuine.

Magda Hassan
05-04-2011, 07:44 AM
Jim, with due respect...I'm not 100% convinced as to when he was killed - now or long ago....but either way one needs to explain why they staged the 'killing of OBL' now; and in the manner and location they did! I agree there is much evidence that he's been dead quite a while.....the non-capture and immediate and irrecoverable manner of the 'body disposal' make it all seem that much more suspicious! I wonder if we'll ever be allowed to hear from those who survived the attack. They are notably absent from the 'stage'. Also, the changed story of 'OBL' first resisting with a weapon and then not having a weapon are all very suspicious.....I think the whole story from anti-Soviet days to today smells of lies and disinformation. Our deep political state does not trade in truth...not even their derivatives and futures.
Exactamente Peter!:rocker:

Keith Millea
05-04-2011, 02:43 PM
Moreover Libi was not the only person who visited Abbottabad, according to Senior Crime Reporter Shakeel Anjum’s story published in The News in October 2010, intelligence agencies captured a top leader of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), N.A.Z (identity hiding due to security reasons), landed in Islamabad to amplify the wave of terrorism in Punjab and federal capital territory. N.A.Z is said to be a foreigner and has assigned as chief planner of terrorist activities in Punjab and federal capital territory.


Hmmm,the TTP?Doesn't this lead us back to Raymond Davis............?

Peter Lemkin
05-04-2011, 03:30 PM
Moreover Libi was not the only person who visited Abbottabad, according to Senior Crime Reporter Shakeel Anjum’s story published in The News in October 2010, intelligence agencies captured a top leader of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), N.A.Z (identity hiding due to security reasons), landed in Islamabad to amplify the wave of terrorism in Punjab and federal capital territory. N.A.Z is said to be a foreigner and has assigned as chief planner of terrorist activities in Punjab and federal capital territory.


Hmmm,the TTP?Doesn't this lead us back to Raymond Davis............?

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Davis has connections to whatever went down at the 'OBL' compound on Monday.....Maybe his exposure make this necessary, at this time.

Keith Millea
05-04-2011, 05:10 PM
Guide:How to piss off Native Americans

Published on Wednesday, May 4, 2011 by the Post Standard (http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/05/onondaga_nation_leaders_blast.html)

Onondaga Nation Leaders Blast 'Geronimo' Codename for Bin Laden

by Charles McChesney

Onondaga Nation Territory -- Leaders of the Onondaga Nation blasted as “reprehensible” the code name used for Osama bin Laden in the commando assault that killed him: “Geronimo.”

“We’ve ID’d Geronimo,” U.S. forces reported by radio Sunday to the White House. Later, word came that “Geronimo” was dead.

Geronimo was an Apache leader in the 19th century who spent many years fighting the Mexican and U.S. armies until his surrender in 1886.

“Think of the outcry if they had used any other ethnic group’s hero,” the Onondaga Council of Chiefs said in a release Tuesday. “Geronimo bravely and heroically defended his homeland and his people, eventually surrendering and living out the rest of his days peacefully, if in captivity.”

“Geronimo is arguably the most recognized Native American name in the world,” the chiefs said, “and this comparison only serves to perpetuate negative stereotypes about our people.”

The chiefs said the incident revived memories of New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s remark last year that Gov. David Paterson should “get yourself a cowboy hat and a shotgun” to deal with Indian affairs.

“It’s typical,” said Onondaga Tadodaho Sid Hill, the nation's spiritual leader. He said Geronimo was a hero to American Indians and it was incomprehensible that “they use him to identify a man like Osama Bin Laden.”

“Why would that be honorable to us?” he asked.

“All they know is just cowboys and Indians, the stuff they saw on TV.”
Hill said he had higher hopes for President Obama, who he said was adopted by the Blackfoot tribe during the 2008 election campaign. “Nobody seems to be able to see our side."

Loretta Tuell, staff director and chief counsel for the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, had a similar same reaction.
“These inappropriate uses of Native American icons and cultures are prevalent throughout our society, and the impacts to Native and non-Native children are devastating,” Tuell said.

Tuell is a member of the Nez Perce tribe and grew on the tribe’s reservation in Idaho.
Steven Newcomb, a columnist for the weekly newspaper Indian Country Today, criticized what he called a disrespectful use of a name revered by many Native Americans.

“Apparently, having an African-American president in the White House is not enough to overturn the more than 200-year American tradition of treating and thinking of Indians as enemies of the United States,” Newcomb wrote.

“It’s frustrating,” said Hill. “We just can’t let this slide again.”

© 2010 Syracuse Online LLC.

Peter Lemkin
05-04-2011, 05:29 PM
The newest vomit spewed forth is that the location of OBL's luxury hideaway came from waterborading people in Gitmo....i.e. waterboarding is good and waterboarding is here to stay.....

....I bet you can't wait until you get waterboarded.....if you're a regular on this Forum, it won't be long now....angryfire

NB - Waterboarding is torture and recognized as such by both US law [sic] and international law, the Geneva Convention and other international treaties. It is not simulated drowning, it is drowning. Some in Gitmo were waterboarded over 140 times. Welcome to a kinder and gentler nation....angryfire

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 05:30 PM
EARLIER REPORTS:

Fox News reported Bin Laden's death in Dec. 2001:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

FOXNEWS.COM HOME > WORLD > NATIONAL
Report: Bin Laden Already Dead
Wednesday, December 26, 2001

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.

Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.

About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and
personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."

The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."

Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.

When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."

The New York Times reported Bin Laden's death in July 2002, six months after
it happened:

The Death of bin Ladenism
By Amir Taheri
Published: July 11, 2002

Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, echoed the information. The remnants of Osama's gang, however, have mostly stayed silent, either to keep Osama's ghost alive or because they have no means of communication.

With an ego the size of Mount Everest, Osama bin Laden would not have, could not have, remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with. Would he remain silent for nine months and not trumpet his own survival?

Even if he is still in the world, bin Ladenism has left for good. Mr. bin Laden was the public face of a brand of politics that committed suicide in New York and Washington on Sept. 11, 2001, killing thousands of innocent people in the process.

What were the key elements of that politics?

The first was a cynical misinterpretation of Islam that began decades ago with such anti-Western ideologues as Maulana Maudoodi of Pakistan and Sayyid Qutb of Egypt. Although Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb were not serious thinkers, they could at least offer a coherent ideology based on a narrow reading of Islamic texts. Their ideas about Western barbarism and Muslim revival, distilled down to bin Ladenism, became mere slogans designed to incite zealots to murder.

People like Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb could catch the ball and run largely because most Muslim intellectuals of their generation (and later) had no interest in continuing the work of Muslim philosophers. Our intellectuals were too busy learning Western ideologies of one kind or another -- and they left the newly urbanized Muslim masses to the half-baked ideas of men like Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb and eventually Mr. bin Laden.

Now, however, many Muslim intellectuals are returning home, so to speak. They are rediscovering the philosophical heritage of Islam and the challenges of Muslim political thought. And Maudoodi-Qutbism is now being seen as a pseudo-Islamic version of Western fascism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/opinion/11TAHE.html?ex=1089432000&en=373a282aeff2716a&ei=5070&todaysheadlines






Jim, with due respect...I'm not 100% convinced as to when he was killed - now or long ago....but either way one needs to explain why they staged the 'killing of OBL' now; and in the manner and location they did! I agree there is much evidence that he's been dead quite a while.....the non-capture and immediate and irrecoverable manner of the 'body disposal' make it all seem that much more suspicious! I wonder if we'll ever be allowed to hear from those who survived the attack. They are notably absent from the 'stage'. Also, the changed story of 'OBL' first resisting with a weapon and then not having a weapon are all very suspicious.....I think the whole story from anti-Soviet days to today smells of lies and disinformation. Our deep political state does not trade in truth...not even their derivatives and futures.
Exactamente Peter!:rocker:

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 05:36 PM
http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/

Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations Steve R. Pieczenik says he is prepared to tell a federal grand jury the name of a top general who told him directly 9/11 was a false flag attack

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
May 4, 2011

Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.

Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.

Recruited by Lawrence Eagleburger as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management, Pieczenik went on to develop, “the basic tenets for psychological warfare, counter terrorism, strategy and tactics for transcultural negotiations for the US State Department, military and intelligence communities and other agencies of the US Government,” while also developing foundational strategies for hostage rescue that were later employed around the world.

Pieczenik also served as a senior policy planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker and worked on George W. Bush’s election campaign against Al Gore. His record underscores the fact that he is one of the most deeply connected men in intelligence circles over the past three decades plus.

The character of Jack Ryan, who appears in many Tom Clancy novels and was also played by Harrison Ford in the popular 1992 movie Patriot Games, is also based on Steve Pieczenik.

Back in April 2002, over nine years ago, Pieczenik told the Alex Jones Show that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months,” and that the government was waiting for the most politically expedient time to roll out his corpse. Pieczenik would be in a position to know, having personally met Bin Laden and worked with him during the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan back in the early 80′s.

Pieczenik said that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001, “Not because special forces had killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him and it was on the intelligence roster that he had marfan syndrome,” adding that the US government knew Bin Laden was dead before they invaded Afghanistan.

Marfan syndrome is a degenerative genetic disease for which there is no permanent cure. The illness severely shortens the life span of the sufferer.

“He died of marfan syndrome, Bush junior knew about it, the intelligence community knew about it,” said Pieczenik, noting how CIA physicians had visited Bin Laden in July 2001 at the American Hospital in Dubai.

“He was already very sick from marfan syndrome and he was already dying, so nobody had to kill him,” added Pieczenik, stating that Bin Laden died shortly after 9/11 in his Tora Bora cave complex.

“Did the intelligence community or the CIA doctor up this situation, the answer is yes, categorically yes,” said Pieczenik, referring to Sunday’s claim that Bin Laden was killed at his compound in Pakistan, adding, “This whole scenario where you see a bunch of people sitting there looking at a screen and they look as if they’re intense, that’s nonsense,” referring to the images released by the White House which claim to show Biden, Obama and Hillary Clinton watching the operation to kill Bin Laden live on a television screen.

“It’s a total make-up, make believe, we’re in an American theater of the absurd….why are we doing this again….nine years ago this man was already dead….why does the government repeatedly have to lie to the American people,” asked Pieczenik.

“Osama Bin Laden was totally dead, so there’s no way they could have attacked or confronted or killed Osama Bin laden,” said Pieczenik, joking that the only way it could have happened was if special forces had attacked a mortuary.

Pieczenik said that the decision to launch the hoax now was made because Obama had reached a low with plummeting approval ratings and the fact that the birther issue was blowing up in his face.

“He had to prove that he was more than American….he had to be aggressive,” said Pieczenik, adding that the farce was also a way of isolating Pakistan as a retaliation for intense opposition to the Predator drone program, which has killed hundreds of Pakistanis.

“This is orchestrated, I mean when you have people sitting around and watching a sitcom, basically the operations center of the White House, and you have a president coming out almost zombie-like telling you they just killed Osama Bin Laden who was already dead nine years ago,” said Pieczenik, calling the episode, “the greatest falsehood I’ve ever heard, I mean it was absurd.”

Dismissing the government’s account of the assassination of Bin Laden as a “sick joke” on the American people, Pieczenik said, “They are so desperate to make Obama viable, to negate the fact that he may not have been born here, any questions about his background, any irregularities about his background, to make him look assertive….to re-elect this president so the American public can be duped once again.”

Pieczenik’s assertion that Bin Laden died almost ten years ago is echoed by numerous intelligence professionals as well as heads of state across the world.

Bin Laden, “Was used in the same way that 9/11 was used to mobilize the emotions and feelings of the American people in order to go to a war that had to be justified through a narrative that Bush junior created and Cheney created about the world of terrorism,” stated Pieczenik.

During his interview with the Alex Jones Show yesterday, Pieczenik also asserted he was directly told by a prominent general that 9/11 was a stand down and a false flag operation, and that he is prepared to go to a grand jury to reveal the general’s name.

“They ran the attacks,” said Pieczenik, naming Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley, Elliott Abrams, and Condoleezza Rice amongst others as having been directly involved.

“It was called a stand down, a false flag operation in order to mobilize the American public under false pretenses….it was told to me even by the general on the staff of Wolfowitz – I will go in front of a federal committee and swear on perjury who the name was of the individual so that we can break it open,” said Pieczenik, adding that he was “furious” and “knew it had happened”.

“I taught stand down and false flag operations at the national war college, I’ve taught it with all my operatives so I knew exactly what was done to the American public,” he added.

Pieczenik re-iterated that he was perfectly willing to reveal the name of the general who told him 9/11 was an inside job in a federal court, “so that we can unravel this thing legally, not with the stupid 9/11 Commission that was absurd.”

Pieczenik explained that he was not a liberal, a conservative or a tea party member, merely an American who is deeply concerned about the direction in which his country is heading.

Watch the full interview with Dr. Pieczenik below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKvrL03vWik



Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a regular fill-in host for The Alex Jones Show.

Peter Lemkin
05-04-2011, 05:39 PM
EARLIER REPORTS:

Fox News reported Bin Laden's death in Dec. 2001:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

FOXNEWS.COM HOME > WORLD > NATIONAL
Report: Bin Laden Already Dead
Wednesday, December 26, 2001

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.

Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.

About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and
personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."

The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."

Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.

When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."

The New York Times reported Bin Laden's death in July 2002, six months after
it happened:

The Death of bin Ladenism
By Amir Taheri
Published: July 11, 2002

Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, echoed the information. The remnants of Osama's gang, however, have mostly stayed silent, either to keep Osama's ghost alive or because they have no means of communication.

With an ego the size of Mount Everest, Osama bin Laden would not have, could not have, remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with. Would he remain silent for nine months and not trumpet his own survival?

Even if he is still in the world, bin Ladenism has left for good. Mr. bin Laden was the public face of a brand of politics that committed suicide in New York and Washington on Sept. 11, 2001, killing thousands of innocent people in the process.

What were the key elements of that politics?

The first was a cynical misinterpretation of Islam that began decades ago with such anti-Western ideologues as Maulana Maudoodi of Pakistan and Sayyid Qutb of Egypt. Although Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb were not serious thinkers, they could at least offer a coherent ideology based on a narrow reading of Islamic texts. Their ideas about Western barbarism and Muslim revival, distilled down to bin Ladenism, became mere slogans designed to incite zealots to murder.

People like Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb could catch the ball and run largely because most Muslim intellectuals of their generation (and later) had no interest in continuing the work of Muslim philosophers. Our intellectuals were too busy learning Western ideologies of one kind or another -- and they left the newly urbanized Muslim masses to the half-baked ideas of men like Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb and eventually Mr. bin Laden.

Now, however, many Muslim intellectuals are returning home, so to speak. They are rediscovering the philosophical heritage of Islam and the challenges of Muslim political thought. And Maudoodi-Qutbism is now being seen as a pseudo-Islamic version of Western fascism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/opinion/11TAHE.html?ex=1089432000&en=373a282aeff2716a&ei=5070&todaysheadlines






Jim, with due respect...I'm not 100% convinced as to when he was killed - now or long ago....but either way one needs to explain why they staged the 'killing of OBL' now; and in the manner and location they did! I agree there is much evidence that he's been dead quite a while.....the non-capture and immediate and irrecoverable manner of the 'body disposal' make it all seem that much more suspicious! I wonder if we'll ever be allowed to hear from those who survived the attack. They are notably absent from the 'stage'. Also, the changed story of 'OBL' first resisting with a weapon and then not having a weapon are all very suspicious.....I think the whole story from anti-Soviet days to today smells of lies and disinformation. Our deep political state does not trade in truth...not even their derivatives and futures.
Exactamente Peter!:rocker:

I'm aware of these and other such reports, Jim. I do NOT discount them as untrue...I have long been inclined to believe they were. I look at it a little differently. Here we have multiple [or two main] reports of OBL's death by the MSM and propaganda apparat. Obviously one of them [or both] are false.....that alone says much. To prove which is true will not be easy, but I'm sure it will happen. I think, at this point, more important is the TIMING and purpose of both of the 'reports'....
NB- much in the early death reports seem convincing. Some [although less at this point]. in the latter death report seem somewhat convincing. The people reporting this are CHRONIC if not CONGENITAL liars.....but in the fullness of time, we will find out. Hey, if they could find the Air France flight recorders, we can find OBL's body at the bottom of the sea....other evidence of the truth exists, but I'd not trust the CIA, Military or USG to tell me anything other than the day it was [today]...all else are lies for the purpose of control.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 05:48 PM
Peter,

It's called "inference to the best explanation". I have laid out a lot of evidence and the question becomes,
"What makes more sense: that he died on or about 15 December 2001 or that he was killed a few days
ago?" If you can't figure that out, you are not as smart as I have supposed you were. And read post #137.

Jim



EARLIER REPORTS:

Fox News reported Bin Laden's death in Dec. 2001:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

FOXNEWS.COM HOME > WORLD > NATIONAL
Report: Bin Laden Already Dead
Wednesday, December 26, 2001

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.

Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.

About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and
personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."

The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."

Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.

When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."

The New York Times reported Bin Laden's death in July 2002, six months after
it happened:

The Death of bin Ladenism
By Amir Taheri
Published: July 11, 2002

Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, echoed the information. The remnants of Osama's gang, however, have mostly stayed silent, either to keep Osama's ghost alive or because they have no means of communication.

With an ego the size of Mount Everest, Osama bin Laden would not have, could not have, remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with. Would he remain silent for nine months and not trumpet his own survival?

Even if he is still in the world, bin Ladenism has left for good. Mr. bin Laden was the public face of a brand of politics that committed suicide in New York and Washington on Sept. 11, 2001, killing thousands of innocent people in the process.

What were the key elements of that politics?

The first was a cynical misinterpretation of Islam that began decades ago with such anti-Western ideologues as Maulana Maudoodi of Pakistan and Sayyid Qutb of Egypt. Although Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb were not serious thinkers, they could at least offer a coherent ideology based on a narrow reading of Islamic texts. Their ideas about Western barbarism and Muslim revival, distilled down to bin Ladenism, became mere slogans designed to incite zealots to murder.

People like Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb could catch the ball and run largely because most Muslim intellectuals of their generation (and later) had no interest in continuing the work of Muslim philosophers. Our intellectuals were too busy learning Western ideologies of one kind or another -- and they left the newly urbanized Muslim masses to the half-baked ideas of men like Mr. Maudoodi and Mr. Qutb and eventually Mr. bin Laden.

Now, however, many Muslim intellectuals are returning home, so to speak. They are rediscovering the philosophical heritage of Islam and the challenges of Muslim political thought. And Maudoodi-Qutbism is now being seen as a pseudo-Islamic version of Western fascism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/opinion/11TAHE.html?ex=1089432000&en=373a282aeff2716a&ei=5070&todaysheadlines






Jim, with due respect...I'm not 100% convinced as to when he was killed - now or long ago....but either way one needs to explain why they staged the 'killing of OBL' now; and in the manner and location they did! I agree there is much evidence that he's been dead quite a while.....the non-capture and immediate and irrecoverable manner of the 'body disposal' make it all seem that much more suspicious! I wonder if we'll ever be allowed to hear from those who survived the attack. They are notably absent from the 'stage'. Also, the changed story of 'OBL' first resisting with a weapon and then not having a weapon are all very suspicious.....I think the whole story from anti-Soviet days to today smells of lies and disinformation. Our deep political state does not trade in truth...not even their derivatives and futures.
Exactamente Peter!:rocker:

I'm aware of these and other such reports, Jim. I do NOT discount them as true...I have long been inclined to believe they were. I look at it a little differently. Here we have multiple [or two main] reports of OBL's death by the MSM and propaganda apparat. Obviously one of them [or both] are false.....that alone says much. To prove which is true will not be easy, but I'm sure it will happen. I think, at this point, more important is the TIMING and purpose of both of the 'reports'....
NB- much in the early death reports seem convincing. Some [although less at this point]. in the latter death report seem somewhat convincing. The people reporting this are CHRONIC if not CONGENITAL liars.....but in the fullness of time, we will find out. Hey, if they could find the Air France flight recorders, we can find OBL's body at the bottom of the sea....other evidence of the truth exists, but I'd not trust the CIA, Military or USG to tell me anything other than the it was...all else are lies for the purpose of control.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 06:09 PM
Peter,

Have you read OSAMA BIN LADEN: DEAD OR ALIVE? (2009)? It's author
will be interviewed today on KPFK 90.7FM Los Angeles at 4 PM/PT (May 4,
2011), which is heard globally at http://www.KPFK.org. I recommend it.

Jim

Official story:

Official: Osama bin Laden is dead
www.msnbc.msn.com
Osama bin Laden is dead and US has body, says person familiar with
developments.

For a dissenting view, here's a quote (from "James Henry Fetzer",
facebook):

One of the most blatant acts of bullshit in our nation's history! A
man who could so directly and baldly lie in announcing the death of
a man who died on or about 15 December 2001 could also directly and
baldly lie about his birth certificate! They are announcing that Osama
was taken out by Obama. Now the wars can continue, the predator drones
can keep killing, and no one will care about where Barack was born!

The claim is made that Osama "confessed", when he did nothing of the
sort. In the only authentic interview we have, he explained that he
had nothing to do with 9/11; that he was upset with the US because
it had stationed troops in Saudi Arabia, the home of Mecca and Medina,
the two most holy sites in Islam; that killing innocent women and
children is contrary to the tenets of Islam; and that there is a
government-within-the-government in America that appears to have been
responsible for these atrocities and blaming those acts on Muslims.

Griffin interview:

4PM PT on KPFK 90.7FM Los Angeles (May 4, 2011)
which is heard globally at http://www.KPFK.org)

Latest report:

Osama bin Laden corpse photo is fake (2 May 2011)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-
fake?CMP=twt_fd

Another skeptic:

Osama bin Laden's Second Death (May 2, 2011)
By Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24587

Related article:

"On the Ethical Conduct of Warfare: Predator Drones" (22 February 2011)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23324

Earlier article:

Gordon Duff, CIA HINTS, BIN LADEN DEAD SINCE "EARLY 2000's" (June
29, 2010)
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/06/29/gordon-duff-cia-hints-bin-
laden-dead-since-early-2000s/

Griffin's book:

David Ray Griffin, OSAMA BIL LADEN: DEAD OR ALIVE? (2009)
http://www.amazon.com/Osama-Bin-Laden-Dead-Alive/dp/1566567831

An interview with someone who would know:

Benazir Bhutto: Bin Laden was Murdered (2007)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

FBI acknowledgement:

FBI says, "No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11" (June 10, 2006)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2623

Scholars press release:

28 May 2006 - OSAMA TAPE APPEARS TO BE FAKE, EXPERTS CONCLUDE
http://twilightpines.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&
Itemid=67

Report: Bin Laden Already Dead (December 26, 2001)

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung
complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader
who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

An interview with a CIA agent the day after 9/11:

CIA veteran doubts the bin Laden story (September 12, 2001)
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/744.html

Peter Lemkin
05-04-2011, 06:11 PM
Jim, I have read #137 and remember this information at the time. It is very convincing and may well be true....but it is not proven to a logical certainty. Even less [much less] so is the staged event on this Monday past. I'm not passing judgment. I'm curious to know the truth. At this time, I lean more toward OBL having been dead some years now...but that makes the question of 'why' and 'why now' the show of Bravado and Lies on Monday.....along with why the MSM and USG kept secret to hidden that he died long ago......there is more here than meets the eye....all of it very foul, indeed.

Jan Klimkowski
05-04-2011, 06:39 PM
Prof Fetzer - you have an opinion. Indeed, you have an informed opinion. As do most of the serious and committed researchers on Deep Politics Forum.

However, currently, you are behaving like a member of the Spanish Inquisition, intent on intimidating all those heretics who do not agree with your worldview into silence or repentance.

This will not do.

A very good case can most certainly be made that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001.

A very good case can also be made that he has been deliberately kept alive, as an iconic and impotent bogeyman, to be ritually slaughtered at a time of the West's choosing.

Both these possibilities, and others, are plausible and deserve intelligent, incisive, discussion on DPF.

So, kindly cease and desist from proclaiming that those who disagree with your judgement have fallen for a psyop.

Please allow discussion, investigation and research to continue.

Thank you.

Helen Reyes
05-04-2011, 06:46 PM
Two photoshopped dead bin Ladens not worthy of 4chan into this, I still say it's a complete hoax. Whether they buried some poor schmuck at sea or took the dead bin Laden out of the freezer for this one or dissolved some unrelated ISI house detainee in a bathtub of acid doesn't matter.

Some of the details, the conflicting details, are informative. Xinhua reported a Pakistani helicopter was fired on, one Pakistani helicopter (that one or more sent after that event?) was downed and there was a gun battle at the house. The US claims they had a helicopter that went down due to "unexpectedly hot air" at the property. It seems plausible either the ISI went in to bust up a Blackwater/CIA safehouse, or the US went in to rescue an "asset" held in an undisclosed ISI location. Either possibility could apply to bin Laden, but didn't, because he wasn't there.

The WHY NOW question shows "prior knowledge" of impending hostilities on Pakistan's part, whose foreign minister recently (last week or two) cinched a deal with Saudi Arabia for a new military partnership, a special relationship-type deal. Pakistan is moving toward a closer alliance with China away from the US, which isn't new, Pakistan has made the same overtures before, but something new is at work, probably Saudi concerns the US is burning its proxy dictators in the Arab world.

Interpreting the Mickey Leaks can lead to the opposite conclusion: that Mickey released the info on Abbottabad on schedule to order to create a backstory for the US action. Still, there is the problem of the hurried and amateur keystone-kop style cover operation, two fake dead bin Laden photoshops not worthy of 4chan into this. There is also the problem of flags and flowers assembling in NYC and DC before the announcement was made in the wee hours, jumping the gunship at a time when the most diehard patriot could be expected to arrive fashionably late dressed rather informally.

The bural-at-sea-to-satisfy-Muslim-custom just doesn't--excuse the phrase--wash. They had to foresee that it wouldn't. You don't invade a country and kill someone in mountainous central Asia then fly his body out to see somewhere for burial in order to satisfy customs and mores. DNA sequencing can't be hurried for the White House Situation Room either. May 1/2 as Walpurgisnacht, the purported date of death of Hitler and the founding of the Bavarian Illuminati might have been a bone thrown to the "conspiracy theorists" to keep them guessing and to keep things interesting, but the coincidence of no body in Hitler and Osama bin Laden's cases is again a little over-the-top even for a new group of activists in charge of psyops.

I gave this production two thumbs down while recognizing that some of the players probably have genuine talent. The problem was at the organizational level, and reflects real desperation on the part of the Obama administration.

Also, Abbottabad happens to have a poem written about it. Funny thing, since Abbott is an anglicized Aramaic word for father. In the case of the Pakistani gated community of the same name, it just so happens to come from the surname of the man who wrote the poem about the place (he) named after him(self):


I remember the day when I first came here
And smelt the sweet Abbottabad air

The trees and ground covered with snow
Gave us indeed a brilliant show

To me the place seemed like a dream
And far ran a lonesome stream

The wind hissed as if welcoming us
The pine swayed creating a lot of fuss

And the tiny cuckoo sang it away
A song very melodious and gay

I adored the place from the first sight
And was happy that my coming here was right

And eight good years here passed very soon
And we leave you perhaps on a sunny noon

Oh Abbottabad we are leaving you now
To your natural beauty do I bow

Perhaps your winds sound will never reach my ear
My gift for you is a few sad tears

I bid you farewell with a heavy heart
Never from my mind will your memories thwart


Major James Abbott, Knight Commander of the Order of Bath, ~1853

According to a then-and-now graphic on cryptome, the ISI safe house was constructed during or after 2004 (a Pakistani professor says 2005 earlier in this thread).
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/obl-kill/obl-kill.htm

Jan Klimkowski
05-04-2011, 07:01 PM
Some of the details, the conflicting details, are informative. Xinhua reported a Pakistani helicopter was fired on, one Pakistani helicopter (that one or more sent after that event?) was downed and there was a gun battle at the house. The US claims they had a helicopter that went down due to "unexpectedly hot air" at the property. It seems plausible either the ISI went in to bust up a Blackwater/CIA safehouse, or the US went in to rescue an "asset" held in an undisclosed ISI location. Either possibility could apply to bin Laden, but didn't, because he wasn't there.



Helen - good to see you posting again.

Interesting thoughts. I posted the Xinhau version (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?7004-Al-Qaeda-leader-Bin-Laden-dead/page6) (post #59), based on alleged Pakistani eye witness accounts, earlier in this thread.

It's a wildcard, but I wouldn't be greatly surprized if this wasn't a botched TF373 or Blackwater/Xe op to extract one of their own.

The location of the safe house clearly identifies it as an ISI location, and it has doubtless hosted numerous VIP guests from across the spectrum.





The WHY NOW question shows "prior knowledge" of impending hostilities on Pakistan's part, whose foreign minister recently (last week or two) cinched a deal with Saudi Arabia for a new military partnership, a special relationship-type deal. Pakistan is moving toward a closer alliance with China away from the US, which isn't new, Pakistan has made the same overtures before, but something new is at work, probably Saudi concerns the US is burning its proxy dictators in the Arab world.


Yes. And Prof Akbar Ahmed's comments, which I posted a couple of pages back, (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?7004-Al-Qaeda-leader-Bin-Laden-dead/page6) (post #115) also clearly state Pakistani complicity and foreknowledge. Indeed, Akbar Ahmed suggests that the entire charade was instigated and staged by high level ISI elements.





Interpreting the Mickey Leaks can lead to the opposite conclusion: that Mickey released the info on Abbottabad on schedule to order to create a backstory for the US action. Still, there is the problem of the hurried and amateur keystone-kop style cover operation, two fake dead bin Laden photoshops not worthy of 4chan into this. There is also the problem of flags and flowers assembling in NYC and DC before the announcement was made in the wee hours, jumping the gunship at a time when the most diehard patriot could be expected to arrive fashionably late dressed rather informally.


My own judgement on the latest Wikileaks material, and it's distillation through MSM filters, is that the WikiMessage came straight from Langley.






I gave this production two thumbs down while recognizing that some of the players probably have genuine talent. The problem was at the organizational level, and reflects real desperation on the part of the Obama administration.


:angeldevil:





Also, Abbottabad happens to have a poem written about it. Funny thing, since Abbott is an anglicized Aramaic word for father. In the case of the Pakistani gated community of the same name, it just so happens to come from the surname of the man who wrote the poem about the place (he) named after him(self):

(snip the doggerel)

Major James Abbott, Knight Commander of the Order of Bath, ~1853



That's quality.

:gossip:

Steve Franklin
05-04-2011, 07:08 PM
Peter - the source photos for the original fake Osama corpse photo can be seen here:


How to create a fake (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake) image of a ghost.

The fact that this whole charade (the execution and disposal of a western-created bogeyman) is being taken seriously by millions of people is really sickening.

I also note that the hawks are beginning to ratchet up the line that "Pakistan's ISI must have known" and this is "treachery" demanding a military reaction.

I'm waiting for the resurrection of Richard Armitage's threat to bomb Pakistan "back to the Stone Age", as reported by Pakistan's President Musharaff after 9/11.

Of course Armitage was "Colin Powell's white son", with the two being buddies from their Golden Triangle "killing gooks" days.....

Considering that China has already intimated that they have Pakistan's back, I wonder who Ole BO plans on borrowing the money from for this third unfunded war. Word has it that China is already selling off part of their vast hoard of treasury bills. Does anybody on this forum not understand what happens if China gets *really* P-O'ed at the U.S.? As Mr. Rogers might say, "Can you say 'sovereign default'?"

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 07:12 PM
Our deep political state does not trade in truth...not even their derivatives and futures.



Thanks for the quote of the day. The whole affair, like many similar ones, is a sordid mess of glop that will take years to be seen clearly. It is, at this point, still active and dynamic, like the slow hot ooze from a volcanic outflow still cooling.

Helen Reyes
05-04-2011, 07:12 PM
Botched extraction was my thought too Jan.

Steve Franklin: if the US nukes China, then the outstanding debt is no longer binding, right?

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 07:34 PM
Cross and Double Cross With Gitmo Files

US Knew Where Osama Was Since 2005

By ISRAEL SHAMIR

The unredacted Guantanamo files show clearly that the trail to Abbottabad was known to the US intelligence services at least since 2005, when al-Libi, another Abbottabad dweller, was captured.

Timing is everything. The US President announced killing of Osama bin Laden just as Wikileaks completed its publication of Guantanamo files. Was it coincidence? If not, what was the connection?

An answer to this question is directly connected with the cross and double cross accusations exchanged in the murky world where the intelligence services meet mainstream media.

Publication of the US secret papers, the Guantanamo Files, was done almost simultaneously by two competing media groups.

One was the Wikileaks of Julian Assange and their partners The Washington Post, The Daily Telegraph, the French Le Monde.

Another one was The New York Times, The Guardian, the Israeli Haaretz.
The Guardian said of the files: “They were obtained by the New York Times, who shared them with the Guardian, which is publishing extracts today, having redacted information which might identify informants. The New York Times says the files were made available to it not by Wikileaks, but "by another source on the condition of anonymity".

Ha'aretz made more of it: “A few media outlets, including The New York Times, the Guardian and Haaretz, obtained the documents from an independent source without the help of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who is under house arrest in Britain awaiting his appeal not to be extradited to Sweden, where he faces charges of rape and sexual assault.” The Guardian’s David Leigh twitted “double-crossing Assange!”

Now we’ll give you the story behind the story: who crossed and double crossed whom, which information was redacted and how did it lead to OBL?

In the beginning, the source was one; allegedly Private First Class Manning or whoever it was who got it and transferred to the Wikileaks of Julian Assange. The entire file is still far from being published – a big part of it was encrypted and uploaded as Julian Assange’s Insurance file. Assange published two tranches of that: the War Diary: Afghanistan War Logs and War Diary: Iraq War Logs. He prepared publication of the third tranche: a huge collection of the State Department cables (Cablegate: 250,000 US Embassy Diplomatic Cables) in the Guardian.

At that point, the data river forked. The treasure trove was copied by a Wikileaks German employee,Daniel Domscheit-Berg, who went AWOL after this profitable appropriation. Domscheit-Bergmade a deal with David Leigh of the Guardian; Leigh used it to cross Assange. He cold-shouldered Assange, declared the deal ‘void’, and used the data to promote his career and to make friends with Bill Keller, editor of the NY Times They published the cables after redacting them, or should we say “censoring” – removeing everything the secret services demanded to remove. We wrote about it at length here in CounterPunch.

Julian Assange succeeded in regaining some lost ground: he established new partnerships, with the Daily Telegraph and others. The cables were being published all the time. And then Assange learned that the Guardian and the New York Times planned to publish the Guantanamo files. There was no time to lose: in a few days, the Wikileaks team prepared the files and began to upload. So did the competitors, possessing the Domscheit-Berg appropriated copy. This was the double-cross per Leigh.

The Guardian and the New York Times have a big and skilful staff, a lot of research, rich archives. But they decided to play ball with the secret services of their countries, redacting information which might identify informants. What a hutzpah! Sometimes, the identity of “informants” is more important than the information.

For instance in the file of Adil Hadi al Jaz’iri Leigh and Keller removed the name of the informant



To their misfortune and to our advantage, at this time the Wikileaks and the Guardian/NY Times were not a loving couple but two competing enterprises. And the Wikileaks published this file in full, warts and all.
Here is the name in full:



Abu Zubaydah the informer was the subject of intensive research, available here that makes clear: this unfortunate man was tortured by the CIA, with permission of US medics and Bush administration, to the point of the total collapse of his personality. He was one of the High Value Detainees; all of them suffered tortures beyond our ability to comprehend. Information they provided was not only unacceptable in court, it was of nil value because they said everything their tormentors wanted in order to gain a moment of peace.

Andy Worthington wrote: Since then, more and more compelling evidence has emerged to demonstrate that Abu Zubaydah was indeed nothing more than a “safehouse keeper” with mental health problems, who “claimed to know more about al-Qaeda and its inner workings than he really did”… “The United States would torture a mentally disturbed man and then leap, screaming, at every word he uttered.” Further confirmation was also provided that his torture yielded no significant information and led only to vast amounts of the intelligence agencies’ time being wasted on false leads. A year ago, summing up the results of Zubaydah’s torture, a former intelligence official stated, bluntly, “We spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms.”

Removal of his name by the Leigh-Keller gang was not “caring about informers”, it was caring about the torturers.

However the most important redactions by Leigh and Keller were directly dictated by the US intelligence services. The name of Nashwan Abd Al Razzaq Abd Al Baqi, or by another name, Abd al Hadi al Iraqi or by his number IZ-10026 was edited away from the file of Abu al-Libi (US9LY-010017DP) and elsewhere. This file is available in a redacted version of the Guardian and in the uncut version of Wikileaks. Comparison shows to what extent all the traces of al Iraqi were removed. It was not connected to “caring about informers”, for al Libi was dead, having allegedly committed suicide in a Libyan jail just before the arrival of the US Ambassador in Tripoli. The file of al Iraqi is missing in all databases; he was captured in 2005 and kept in various secret prisons, until transferred to Guantanamo where he is detained now.

Careful reading of the file shows that al-Libi was connected with al Iraqi since October 2002. In 2003, OBL stated al Libi would be the official messenger between OBL and others in Pakistan. In mid-2003, al Libi moved his family to Abbottabad, Pakistan and worked between Abbottabad and Peshawar. He maintained contact with al Iraqi.

And we know that OBL was found and killed in Abbottabad – just as this publication hit the pages of the newspapers. So the trail to Abbottabad was known to the American services at least since 2005, when al-Libi, another Abbottabad dweller, was captured.

What we do not know is the nature of the contacts between the US authorities and OBL. What we do know is that David Leigh and Bill Keller tried to hid it from their readers. Their redacting of the Guantanamo files, like their redacting of the Cablegate, had nothing to do with “saving informers”.

David Leigh claimed that Assange "double-crossed" the paper by distributing the Gitmo files to various "right-wing" news organisations, meaning the conservative Daily Telegraph. This is rich. “Left” and “right” has very little meaning nowadays, after Blair and Clinton. What is important is the position on wars and overseas interventions, susceptibility to Secret Service meddling, subservience to the priorities of the state.

In France, right-wing Marina Le Pen stands against foreign interventions in Libya and Cote d’Ivoire, against payments to bankers, against the President, while left-wing Henri Bernard Levi supports wars and interventions, loves bankers, is a friend of the President “right-wing” Sarkozy.


In England, the Guardian is the leading newspaper for calls to war. Libya, Syria – the Guardian wants them bombed. Afghanistan, Serbia, Iraq, - the Guardian wanted them to be invaded. It is just the package is different: instead of right-wing jingoism, the Guardian served the neo-colonialist adventurism under delicate sauce of humanitarian intervention. The Guardian leads on hypocrisy. The Guardian is not the newspaper of the left; it is the problem of the left. The case of Guantanamo files proves that the Guardian redacted the most vital information as told by the CIA.

And Osama? What about Osama bin Laden? Now we know that the US knew of his whereabouts; they knew of the trail, they asked Leigh and Keller to remove relevant references. Why didn’t they capture him or kill him earlier?

OBL’s organisation did what the US authorities wanted to be done. They fought the Russians and ruined Afghanistan. They conspired and fought against Hezbollah, slaughtered Shias in Iraq, undermined Qaddafi, hated Hamas and Iran. They supported ethnic cleansing of ‘infidels’ in Chechnya and in the Balkans. They never ever attacked Israel: they preserved their vigor for Sayyed Nasrallah. Like a dreadful beast nurtured in the CIA secret labs, only once they reportedly rebelled against their merciless creator - on 9/11. Osama was greater than, but similar to such American friends as Jonas Savimbi of Angola or Shamil Basayev of Chechnya, and hopefully after his death his organization will vanish like Unita and Basayev did.

The Guantanamo files reveal utter wretchedness of Osama’s unlucky followers. With exception of a few dozen close associates, the rest of the prisoners made a wrong choice ever listening to him. They (especially foreigners) were idealists, who wanted to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth; they were encouraged by the US to flock to Afghanistan to fight the Commies. The majority of them never even had a chance to hold the gun. They, the foreigners in Afghanistan and Pakistan were sold for bounty to the Americans as fast as possible. They paid for this by years of torture. And now they are about to learn that their supreme chief was safeguarded by the same Americans who tortured them!

But in the mind of the Muslim masses OBL will be remembered (justly or not) as the architect of the only successful response of the oppressed to the Empire on its own soil. And that ensured him greatness of his own and a place in history.

Israel Shamir can be reached at adam@israelshamir.net

World copyright CounterPunch


http://piazzadcara.wordpress.com/2011/05/04/cross-and-double-cross-with-gitmo-files-us-knew-where-osama-was-since-2005/

Jack White
05-04-2011, 07:41 PM
Right Jan, your complaints about Fetzer are most timely but he has always been in the business of getting those interested in going along with his deceptions, whether it be the JFk assassination, 9/11 or whatever.

My best experience with him was when he sent me an unsolicited copy of The Taking Of America, 1-2-3 by Richard E. Sprague which Fetzer sent me on April 3, 1998 in the hope of coopting me to give up my theory about Nixon being the ringleader of the JFK assassination, and also an unsolicited copy of Assassination Science in the hope to getting me to go along with his deep deceptions.

In the article on p. 78, Sprague said about my work on Compuiters and Automation and other sources: "Whether Nixon was directly involved in the PCG'S planning for the assassination is still open to question, although one researcher believes that he was."

No efforts by Fetzer to get me to change my mind have succeeded in the slightest bit.

The professor is apparently the government's leading spook.
.

Baloney. Fetzer is correct about FACTS 98 percent of the time.
He is wrong only on two minor subjects...JVB and CMH.

I agree that he should refrain from criticizing other researchers
just because they do not see matters as clearly as he does.

Fetzer is a true patriot. The same cannot be said of all his critics.

Jack

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 07:46 PM
===================================
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24587
1. Osama bin Laden’s Second Death
by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
Global Research, May 2, 2011

If today were April 1 and not May 2, we could dismiss as an April fool’s joke this morning’s headline that Osama bin Laden was killed in a firefight in Pakistan and quickly buried at sea. As it is, we must take it as more evidence that the US government has unlimited belief in the gullibility of Americans.

Think about it. What are the chances that a person allegedly suffering from kidney disease and requiring dialysis and, in addition, afflicted with diabetes and low blood pressure, survived in mountain hideaways for a decade? If bin Laden was able to acquire dialysis equipment and medical care that his condition required, would not the shipment of dialysis equipment point to his location? Why did it take ten years to find him?

Consider also the claims, repeated by a triumphalist US media celebrating bin Laden’s death, that “bin Laden used his millions to bankroll terrorist training camps in Sudan, the Philippines, and Afghanistan, sending ‘holy warriors’ to foment revolution and fight with fundamentalist Muslim forces across North Africa, in Chechnya, Tajikistan and Bosnia.” That’s a lot of activity for mere millions to bankroll (perhaps the US should have put him in charge of the Pentagon), but the main question is: how was bin Laden able to move his money about? What banking system was helping him? The US government succeeds in seizing the assets of people and of entire countries, Libya being the most recent. Why not bin Laden’s? Was he carrying around with him $100 million dollars in gold coins and sending emissaries to distribute payments to his far-flung operations?

This morning’s headline has the odor of a staged event. The smell reeks from the triumphalist news reports loaded with exaggerations, from celebrants waving flags and chanting “USA USA.” Could something else be going on?

No doubt President Obama is in desperate need of a victory. He committed the fool’s error or restarting the war in Afghanistan, and now after a decade of fighting the US faces stalemate, if not defeat. The wars of the Bush/Obama regimes have bankrupted the US, leaving huge deficits and a declining dollar in their wake. And re-election time is approaching.

The various lies and deceptions, such as “weapons of mass destruction,” of the last several administrations had terrible consequences for the US and the world. But not all deceptions are the same. Remember, the entire reason for invading Afghanistan in the first place was to get bin Laden. Now that President Obama has declared bin Laden to have been shot in the head by US special forces operating in an independent country and buried at sea, there is no reason for continuing the war.

Perhaps the precipitous decline in the US dollar in foreign exchange markets has forced some real budget reductions, which can only come from stopping the open-ended wars. Until the decline of the dollar reached the breaking point, Osama bin Laden, who many experts believe to have been dead for years, was a useful bogyman to use to feed the profits of the US military/security complex.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 07:48 PM
====================================
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15601
2. Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?

by David Ray Griffin

Global Research, October 9, 2009 (notice the date of 2009)

Is Osama bin Laden still alive? I have dealt with this question in a recent little book entitled Osama bin Laden: Dead or Alive? The present essay summarizes the main points of this book.

Since the transference of power from the Bush administration to that of Barack Obama administration, the question of whether bin Laden is dead or alive has become more important.

Although George W. Bush famously said that he wanted Osama bin Laden “dead or alive,” he made clear that he was not serious about this. Besides stating that he was not concerned about bin Laden, he demonstrated this by diverting most of America’s military resources to Iraq. Bush could, of course, be unconcerned about bin Laden because he knew that, besides the fact that bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11, he was probably dead anyway.

I do not know what President Obama and his people think about these matters, but their rhetoric presupposes that bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 and is still alive.

In November 2008, for example, a Washington Post story said:

“President-elect Barack Obama . . . intends to renew the U.S. commitment to the hunt for Osama bin Laden. . . . ‘This is our enemy,’ one adviser said of bin Laden, ‘and he should be our principal target.’”

In his White House address of March 27 of this year, President Obama said:

“[A]l Qaeda and its allies - the terrorists who planned and supported the 9/11 attacks - are in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Multiple intelligence estimates have warned that al Qaeda is actively planning attacks on the U.S. homeland from its safe-haven in Pakistan. . . . [A]l Qaeda and its extremist allies have moved across the border to the remote areas of the Pakistani frontier. This almost certainly includes al Qaeda's leadership: Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri.”

Obama has appealed regularly to these intelligence estimates, which have invariably claimed that bin Laden is hiding in Pakistan, somewhere along its border with Pakistan. This claim has been used to justify the extension of US military activity into Pakistan, with the result that people now speak of the “AfPak war.”

One way to argue against this war is to point out that, if these intelligence experts do not even know whether bin Laden is alive, they certainly cannot know where he is and what he is thinking.

There are, to be sure, other good arguments against the this war, and many critics are making these arguments. But to point out that bin Laden is almost certainly dead provides an argument that goes to the heart of the publicly articulated rationale for this war.

Of course, another way to argue against this war would be to point out that bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11. But even though our own FBI has admitted that it “has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11,” a large part of the American population has been conditioned to reject all revisionism about 9/11 out of hand. As we saw recently with “the Van Jones affair,” people are considered unfit for public service if they once signed a document suggesting that the official account of 9/11 might not be fully true.

My little bin Laden book is primarily for people who, besides assuming that Osama bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks, also believe that the AfPak war is justifiable because we need to prevent him from planning another attack. Many such people will turn against the war if they become aware of convincing evidence that bin Laden is almost certainly dead. There is considerable evidence for this conclusion.

This evidence is of two types: objective evidence and testimonies.

Objective Evidence that Bin Laden is Dead

The objective evidence includes the following facts:

First, up until mid-December 13, 2001, the CIA had regularly been intercepting messages between bin Laden and his people. At that time, however, the messages suddenly stopped, and the CIA has never again intercepted a message.

Second, on December 26, 2001, a leading Pakistani newspaper published a story reporting that bin Laden had died in mid-December, adding:

“A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement . . . stated . . . that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial.”

Third, bin Laden had kidney disease. He had been treated for it in the American Hospital in Dubai in July 2001, at which time he reportedly ordered two dialysis machines to take home. If you have ever wondered what bin Laden was doing the night before the 9/11 attacks, CBS News reported that he was being given kidney dialysis treatment in a hospital in Pakistan. And in January of 2001, Dr. Sanjay Gupta said – based on a video of bin Laden that had been made in either late November or early December of 2001 – that he appeared to be in the last stages of kidney failure.

Fourth, In July of 2002, CNN reported that bin Laden’s bodyguards had been captured in February of that year, adding: “Sources believe that if the bodyguards were captured away from bin Laden, it is likely the most-wanted man in the world is dead.”

Fifth, the United States has since 2001 offered a $25 million reward for any information leading to the capture or killing of bin Laden. But this reward offer has produced no such information, even though Pakistan has many desperately poor people, only about half of whom have been supportive of bin Laden.

Testimonial Evidence that Bin Laden Is Dead

In addition to this objective evidence, we had considerable testimony in 2002, from people in position to know, that bin Laden was dead, or probably so. These people included:

• President Musharraf of Pakistan;

• Dale Watson, the head of the FBI’s counterterrorism unit;

• Oliver North, who said: “I'm certain that Osama is dead. . . And so are all the other guys I stay in touch with”;

• President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan;

• Sources within Israeli intelligence, who said that any new messages from bin Laden were “probably fabrications”;

• Sources within Pakistani intelligence, who “confirmed the death of . . . Osama Bin Laden” and “attributed the reasons behind Washington's hiding news on the death of Osama Bin Laden to the desire of the hawks of the American administration to use the issue of al-Qaida and international terrorism to invade Iraq.”

For this reason, perhaps, the stories about the demise of bin Laden largely came to an end in the latter part of 2002, when the United States was gearing up for its attack on Iraq. From then until now, there have been few such stories.

Recently, however, two former intelligence officers have spoken out. In October 2008, former CIA case officer Robert Baer suggested in passing during an interview on National Public Radio that bin Laden was no longer among the living. When Baer was asked about this, he said: “Of course he’s dead.”

In March of 2009, former Foreign Service officer Angelo Codevilla published an essay in the American Spectator entitled “Osama bin Elvis.” Explaining his title, Codevilla wrote: “Seven years after Osama bin Laden's last verifiable appearance among the living, there is more evidence for Elvis's presence among us than for his.”

This is an excellent article, with only one serious flaw. In 2007, Benazir Bhutto, being interviewed by David Frost, referred to Omar Sheikh as “the man who murdered Osama bin Laden.” Codevilla cited this statement as further evidence that bin Laden is dead. But Bhutto had simply misspoken: She had meant to say “the man who murdered Daniel Pearl,” which is the standard way of referring to Omar Sheikh. That she misspoke was shown the next day, when she told CNN: “I don’t think General Musharaf personally knows where Osama bin Laden is.” Ten days later, speaking to NPR, she reported having asked a policeman assigned to guard her house: “Shouldn’t you be looking for Osama bin Laden?” This flaw aside, Codevilla’s article provides good support for his claim that the widespread belief in bin Laden’s continued existence is not backed up by evidence.

What about the “Messages from Osama bin Laden”?

Many people, of course, assume that there is a lot of evidence that bin Laden is still alive, namely, the dozens of audio tape and video tape “messages from bin Laden” that have appeared since 2001. These tapes provide good evidence, however, only if they are authentic. The longest chapter of my book is devoted to this question.

I show, in the first place, that the technology for making fake audio and video tapes is now so advanced that even experts can be fooled. So although the press regularly tells us that intelligence agencies have authenticated the latest bin Laden tape, it is virtually impossible to prove a tape to be authentic.

It is sometimes possible, however, to prove a tape to be a fake. For example: If the person hired to play bin Laden writes with his right hand; if he is much heavier and darker than bin Laden was in a tape made about the same time; if he has fatter hands and shorter fingers; if his nose has a different shape. And if, in discussing the Twin Towers, he says that the fire melted the steel, whereas the real bin Laden would have known that a building fire cannot melt steel. I am speaking here of the video that was allegedly found by US troops in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, in November 2001, which is widely known as the “bin Laden confession video.”

Also obviously fabricated was the “October Surprise” video, which appeared on October 29, 2004, just in time to help George W. Bush get reelected. One clue that it was a fake, aside from its timing, is provided by its language. Bin Laden’s own messages were saturated with references to Allah and the Prophet Mohammed. But in this October Surprise video, Allah was mentioned rarely and the only “Mohammad” mentioned was Mohamed Atta. Also, whereas undoubtedly authentic bin Laden messages portrayed worldly events as cause or at least permitted by Allah, the speaker on this October Surprise video gave a purely secular account of events, even telling the American people: “Your security is in your own hands.”

The most obviously faked video is one that, appearing in 2007, was identical to the October Surprise video of 2004, except that the bin Laden figure now had a completely black beard, leading me to call it the video from “Blackbeard the Terrorist.” Although pundits tried, with straight faces, to explain why bin Laden might have dyed his beard, or put on a fake one, this video was best treated with the respect it deserved by a YouTube video featuring a actor wearing a very long, very black, beard, and saying:

Hello, long time no see. It is me, Osama bin Laden. And no, this not to be confused with just-for-men hair color commercial. . . . I make this video to prove to world that me still alive and kicking.

This video is very funny. But there is, of course, nothing funny about the fact that obviously fake bin Laden videos have been used, and are still being used, to justify the AfPak war, which continues to kill dozens if not hundreds of innocent people each week, including women and children attending weddings and funerals.

Conclusion

If my little book, by showing that bin Laden has probably long been dead, can help shorten this war, it will have served its main purpose.

Its other main point, to which a separate chapter is devoted, is that these fake bin Laden tapes appear to be simply one part of an extensive propaganda operation, in which the US military intelligence is using tax dollars – illegally – to propagandize the American public, with the aim of furthering the militarization of America and its foreign policy.

I hope my little book will stimulate the 9/11 truth movement, along with the anti-war movement in general, to take on more fully the task of exposing this propaganda effort, to which a growing portion of our tax dollars is being devoted.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 07:51 PM
===================================
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24595

3. PREDICTED IN MARCH 2010: Staging bin Laden's 'Death'

by Enver Masud

Global Research, May 2, 2011
The Wisdom Fund - 2010-03-25

It appears that we are being primed for the "death" of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

Attorney General Eric Holder told a House panel this month [March 2010] that bin Laden "will never appear in an American courtroom."
Others who have examined the evidence, and the "bin Laden tapes," have concluded that bin Laden is dead.

US Defense Secretary Robert Gates admitted that the US has had no reliable information on the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden in years.
But the US needs a neat ending to its war on Afghanistan.

Staging bin Laden's death will be seen as a fitting end to this genocidal war for the control of energy resources. Of course it will have to be done so that visual identification is not possible.

We suspect that when bin Laden is "killed," we'll just have to trust the folks that lied us into war to confirm they got him.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 07:52 PM
===================================
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24594

4. Obama's "Big Lie": White House Propaganda and the “Death” of Osama bin Laden

by Larry Chin

Global Research, May 2, 2011

On the evening of May 1, 2011, President Barack Obama declared that the CIA, on his personal order, successfully killed Al-Qaeda “mastermind” Osama bin Laden. In a conveniently scheduled Sunday evening telecast, Obama shamelessly wielded tired lies and 9/11 propaganda, while congratulating himself and the CIA. In classic lying George W. Bush fashion, Obama announced “mission accomplished”.

Obama has pronounced Osama bin Laden to be dead. But according to historical facts and extensive documented evidence, he may never have been alive in the way that the official propaganda has portrayed him. Or alive at all.

Osama bin Laden has been a CIA asset in reality, and a propaganda boogeyman in official fiction.

The official Osama bin Laden narrative, along with “Islamic terrorism” and Al-Qaeda, is a CIA military-intelligence fabrication designed to provide a pretext for an eternal global war agenda, and to provide an ongoing propaganda pretext for the “war on terrorism”.

The “Militant Islamic Network”, including bin Laden himself, has been, since the Cold War a intelligence network that has been “run” on behalf of Anglo-American interests.

The attack of 9/11 was a false flag operation, planned and carried out by Anglo-American intelligence assets, blamed on “Al-Qaeda”, despite no credible supporting evidence.

On the other hand, evidence abounds concerning the manipulation of terror assets, including bin Laden, by the CIA. This milieu was thoroughly examined by Mike Ruppert in Crossing the Rubicon, in which he concluded:

“Given the degree of documented intelligence penetration of al Qaeda; the fact that Osama bin Laden had been a CIA asset during the first Afghan conflict against the Soviets; the fact that a number of the so-called hijackers and/or al Qaeda members had been trained in CIA training camps in Chechnya; had fought in CIA/US-sponsored guerrilla conflicts (e.g. in Kosovo with the KLA in 2000), or had received military training at US installations; given all that, it is reasonable to assume that one or more top al Qaeda officials were in fact double or triple agents…”

“Based upon what is known about successful intelligence penetrations for years prior to the attacks of 9/11, Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda could not have sneezed without the CIA or the NSA knowing about it.”

The assertion that bin Laden’s whereabouts have been unknown, that he could have eluded detection for a decade (including the “he’s hiding in caves along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border” and other such fables) was debunked years ago. According to a November 2003 Reuters report, bin Laden was received kidney dialysis in a US military hospital in Dubai two months before the 9/11 attacks, and again on September 10, 2001, according to Pakistani intelligence. These and other reports support the conclusion that Osama bin Laden was not only a CIA asset (one whose whereabouts were more than known), but one who was deathly ill. Other reports over the years suggest that the “mastermind” may have certainly died at some point, even while his image continued to be used incessantly to keep the “war on terrorism” alive.

President Obama’s lying before the cameras was as shameless as the clumsiness of the mainstream corporate media dance surrounding it. At the same time Obama stated in his speech that the killing of bin Laden had taken place “tonight” in a mountain hideout in Pakistan, various reporters on competing networks, citing multiple sources, contradicted Obama, stating that bin Laden was killed a week ago in a firefight near Islamabad, and that bin Laden’s body had been tested for DNA ever since. This conflict alone raises enough doubt to throw this new official story into the question. In the coming days, there will undoubtedly be more holes revealed.

Seasoned observers have said for years that Osama bin Laden---the mythic figure--- would elude capture as long as the Anglo-American elites needed to continue the current course of war in the Middle East and Central Asia. He would never be captured, absolutely never be put on trial, and would not be “killed” unless political expediency demanded it. The elites, for various reasons, have chosen this hour to end this tired and overused trump card.

The “successful kill” of bin Laden comes at a convenient time. Obama’s popularity has plummeted. His political opponents are threatening to unseat him in 2012. The continued US presence in the Middle East and support for the “war on terrorism” is fragile, weakened by popular protests, and ambivalence among Americans.

The “war on terrorism” narrative, the continuing world war done in its name, will never end. It is clear, however, that some change in course is in the works; at the very least, a tactical shift.

In the meantime, Barack Obama can now claim to have “finished the job” in Afghanistan, just as he promised to do when elected, and declare himself to be a champion anti-terrorist, a “take-charge” military leader and bastion of justice who has avenged 9/11. Obama will ride this hard for his re-election campaign.

In response to Obama’s victory speech, crowds (of unknown origin) gathered outside the White House chanting “U.S.A.”. Whether this spectacle was staged or genuine is not known. What is known is that the vast majority of the American public remains oblivious to the fact that their own government, Bush/Cheney and Obama administrations alike, have never stopped lying to them about 9/11, the “war on terrorism”, or Osama bin Laden.

On this night, Obama repeated The Big Lie, the biggest one of all.

Peter Lemkin
05-04-2011, 07:56 PM
Our deep political state does not trade in truth...not even their derivatives and futures.



Thanks for the quote of the day. The whole affair, like many similar ones, is a sordid mess of glop that will take years to be seen clearly. It is, at this point, still active and dynamic, like the slow hot ooze from a volcanic outflow still cooling.

Hey, that was my 'line'......:banghead:

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 08:03 PM
Right Jan, your complaints about Fetzer are most timely but he has always been in the business of getting those interested in going along with his deceptions, whether it be the JFk assassination, 9/11 or whatever.

My best experience with him was when he sent me an unsolicited copy of The Taking Of America, 1-2-3 by Richard E. Sprague which Fetzer sent me on April 3, 1998 in the hope of coopting me to give up my theory about Nixon being the ringleader of the JFK assassination, and also an unsolicited copy of Assassination Science in the hope to getting me to go along with his deep deceptions.

In the article on p. 78, Sprague said about my work on Compuiters and Automation and other sources: "Whether Nixon was directly involved in the PCG'S planning for the assassination is still open to question, although one researcher believes that he was."

No efforts by Fetzer to get me to change my mind have succeeded in the slightest bit.

The professor is apparently the government's leading spook.
.

Baloney. Fetzer is correct about FACTS 98 percent of the time.
He is wrong only on two minor subjects...JVB and CMH.

I agree that he should refrain from criticizing other researchers
just because they do not see matters as clearly as he does.

Fetzer is a true patriot. The same cannot be said of all his critics.

Jack

Totally unrelated to the Fetzer debate, or the OBL/Obama debate, or any other debate, perhaps a thread should be started in which "a true patriot" can be defined so we can ascertain and discern whether we ourselves meet the criteria.

I had a similar discussion elsewhere with someone else who was ranting about collapse and militia and such stuff and I asked him how one might know, in the middle of such chaos, how one had made contact with those who -- armed with long-range sniper rifles and such -- deemed themselves to be on the right side, whether they were friend (or foe). Were we to wear feathers in our hat-bands, upside-down tarot cards on our foreheads, insignia on our shoulders, or simply to transmit some secret signal like the hjck codes from our iPhone transponders?

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 08:08 PM
Our deep political state does not trade in truth...not even their derivatives and futures.

And so you are correct, Peter. I apologize for the error in dissection. :wavey::rocker::worship:

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 08:17 PM
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/so-kill/so-kill.htm

An extended look at the facilities at which the special ops teams train for missions like the recent badness in Abottabad.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 08:44 PM
I think highly of Magda, but I tend to assume that those who post here are up-to-speed on these things, which, it turns out, is often a baseless assumption. I am a bit more perplexed that, when I suggest someone is not current, you come after me, hammer and tongs, but when some mindless twit accuses me of being "the government's leading spook", not a peep! Please explain. Am I missing something?


Prof Fetzer - you have an opinion. Indeed, you have an informed opinion. As do most of the serious and committed researchers on Deep Politics Forum.

However, currently, you are behaving like a member of the Spanish Inquisition, intent on intimidating all those heretics who do not agree with your worldview into silence or repentance.

This will not do.

A very good case can most certainly be made that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001.

A very good case can also be made that he has been deliberately kept alive, as an iconic and impotent bogeyman, to be ritually slaughtered at a time of the West's choosing.

Both these possibilities, and others, are plausible and deserve intelligent, incisive, discussion on DPF.

So, kindly cease and desist from proclaiming that those who disagree with your judgement have fallen for a psyop.

Please allow discussion, investigation and research to continue.

Thank you.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 08:55 PM
Let's see. I sent this guy a copy of "The Taking of America: 1-2-3" and even a copy of ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998), to which there are eleven (11) contributors, including David W. Mantik, M.D., Ph.D., Robert B. Livingston, M.D., Charles Crenshaw, M.D., Brad Kizzia, J.D., Roy Schaeffer and Mike Pincher, J.D., and others still. So what possible "deep deceptions" was I attempting to "get [him] to go along with"? that the X-rays had been altered? that another brain had been substituted for that of JFK? that there were multiple indications that the Zapruder film had been faked? And who is this guy, anyway? I do him a good turn and he responds with complete and utter rubbish? And the moderators pretend they don't notice, because they are so concerned that I implied that someone I admire was not "up to speed" about the death of Osama bin Laden? What's going on here? I expect more even-handed treatment at the DEEP POLITICS FORUM. And why would I -- or anyone else, for that matter -- give a damn about what this guy thinks? Who cares? But I expect more from the moderators.


Right Jan, your complaints about Fetzer are most timely but he has always been in the business of getting those interested in going along with his deceptions, whether it be the JFk assassination, 9/11 or whatever.

My best experience with him was when he sent me an unsolicited copy of The Taking Of America, 1-2-3 by Richard E. Sprague which Fetzer sent me on April 3, 1998 in the hope of coopting me to give up my theory about Nixon being the ringleader of the JFK assassination, and also an unsolicited copy of Assassination Science in the hope to getting me to go along with his deep deceptions.

In the article on p. 78, Sprague said about my work on Compuiters and Automation and other sources: "Whether Nixon was directly involved in the PCG'S planning for the assassination is still open to question, although one researcher believes that he was."

No efforts by Fetzer to get me to change my mind have succeeded in the slightest bit.

The professor is apparently the government's leading spook.
.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 09:19 PM
Peter,

Do me the favor of reading the first several sections of "Thinking about
'Conspiracy Theories': 9/11 and JFK", because you should know better
than to be talking about "logical certainties" at this stage in your life. I
spent 35 years teaching logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning,
and there are no "logical certainties" about historical or empirical events.

The question is, what is the better explanation for the available evidence:
that he died on or about 15 December 2001 or that he died a few days ago?
I really don't think that should be too much of a challenge for someone as
smart as you. If you are looking for logical certainties, then restrict your
attention to proofs in mathematics, because there are none about history.

Alternatively, I also have a chapter about "Assassination Science and the
Language of Proof" in ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998), where I provide
(what I take to be) an easily accessible explanation of these things. The
term "proof" has different meanings in mathematics, empirical science,
and the law, where my background might contribute to issues like these.

Jim


Jim, I have read #137 and remember this information at the time. It is very convincing and may well be true....but it is not proven to a logical certainty. Even less [much less] so it the staged event on this Monday past. I'm not passing judgment. I'm curious to know the truth. At this time, I lean more toward OBL having been dead some years now...but that make the question of 'why' and 'why now' the show of Bravado and Lies on Monday.....along with why the MSM and USG kept secret to hidden that he died long ago......there is more here than meets the eye....all of it very foul, indeed.

Jan Klimkowski
05-04-2011, 09:29 PM
I think highly of Magda, but I tend to assume that those who post here are up-to-speed on these things, which, it turns out, is often a baseless assumption. I am a bit more perplexed that, when I suggest someone is not current, you come after me, hammer and tongs, but when some mindless twit accuses me of being "the government's leading spook", not a peep! Please explain. Am I missing something?



Trowbridge Ford's description of you as "the government's leading spook" was banal. It barely registered in my consciousness, and I ignored it out of ennui.

However, for the record, Trowbridge - you were out of line and should withdraw that remark.

Now, back to the substance.

I wrote:


A very good case can most certainly be made that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001.

A very good case can also be made that he has been deliberately kept alive, as an iconic and impotent bogeyman, to be ritually slaughtered at a time of the West's choosing.

Both these possibilities, and others, are plausible and deserve intelligent, incisive, discussion on DPF.

In fact, there are many variations of these basic themes, including a scenario where Bin Laden the man died in December 2001, but his legend, as an iconic bogeyman, continued to be built as an intelligence psyop, to ensure that a suitable "monster" was available for ritual slaughter at a time of need.

Now, I know about Marfan Syndrome. I made a BBC/Discovery documentary which examined the various medical conditions associated with giantism over a decade ago. It is entirely possible that Bin Laden has Marfan Syndrome. However, it is not 100% proven on the available evidence.

And this is the nub.

It is entirely possible that Bin Laden died in December 2001. It is not proven on the available evidence.

It is entirely possible that Bin Laden (or a version of Bin Laden) died in May 2011. It is not proven on the available evidence.

My own view, as stated throughout this thread, is that the most important deep political question is not whether Bin Laden died, but why the American President decided to kill the legend of Osama on May 2, 2011?

WHY NOW?

This question matters regardless of whether Bin Laden died in December 2001, May 2011, is still alive, never existed, etc etc etc.

Why has Obama decided to declare, with full fanfare, that this impotent, iconic, phantasm has been ritually slaughtered by American heroes at this moment in time?

Many of us on this thread have drawn attention to the sloppy nature of the production. Indeed, I've recorded some of the original official MSM narrative in this thread, so that we can watch it unravel in real time. And unravelling it is, at a breakneck speed.

It is important that we continue to investigate and unpick the officially presented "evidence" to discover what really happened, and why this charade has been played now.

As to when Bin Laden died, you may well be correct. But none of us knows for sure.

Ed Jewett
05-04-2011, 10:01 PM
The term "proof" has different meanings in mathematics, empirical science, and the law, where my background might contribute to issues like these.


Dr. Fetzer, I have asked before and I'll ask again (in the greater context of critical thinking) if you might perhaps post (in an appropriate thread elsewhere here) what you consider to be the finest sources of autodidactic learning about critical thinking that those of us who are beginners, or who are up in the cheap seats, can access online or in libraries or bookstores like Amazon, about the process and sub-tasks of critical discernment.

Please don't assume that means I am taking sides in this or some other debate, or that I write now with tongue either in cheek or barbed or forked.

Such a request might also be extended to all other active contributors to DPF.

We have a file of notable books on subjects within the world of deep politics. How about an online seminar featuring you, Peter Dale Scott and any other prominent luminaries in the field on proper approaches to research, reading, formulation of questions, and -- of course-- formulation of conclusions?

Steve Franklin
05-04-2011, 10:13 PM
And where did they get the DNA to match? Was it standard practice for the CIA to DNA-type their operatives during the Russo-Afghan War?
To answer that question, at least according to the official narrative:
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-05/osama-bin-laden-identified-dna-his-sisters-brain

So they have his sister's brain stashed away? Along with Kennedy's brain, no doubt. The one with all the lead in it. The problem here is the one with "the boy who cried wolf." After while nobody believes anything you say. Remember, these are the folks who did the "DNA matches" with the folks who supposedly died at Shanksville. I'm sure these folks could do a convincing DNA match between Santa Claus and the mummy of Ramses II. I'm sure they have Santa Claus's brain stashed away somewhere too, along with the Ark of Covenant. These folks are pathological liars. They would literally have an epileptic fit if they ever actually told the truth about anything.

Steve Franklin
05-04-2011, 10:26 PM
And this is the nub.

It is entirely possible that Bin Laden died in December 2001. It is not proven on the available evidence.

It is entirely possible that Bin Laden (or a version of Bin Laden) died in May 2011. It is not proven on the available evidence.

My own view, as stated throughout this thread, is that the most important deep political question is not whether Bin Laden died, but why the American President decided to kill the legend of Osama on May 2, 2011?

WHY NOW?

This question matters regardless of whether Bin Laden died in December 2001, May 2011, is still alive, never existed, etc etc etc.

Why has Obama decided to declare, with full fanfare, that this impotent, iconic, phantasm has been ritually slaughtered by American heroes at this moment in time?

Many of us on this thread have drawn attention to the sloppy nature of the production. Indeed, I've recorded some of the original official MSM narrative in this thread, so that we can watch it unravel in real time. And unravelling it is, at a breakneck speed.

It is important that we continue to investigate and unpick the officially presented "evidence" to discover what really happened, and why this charade has been played now.

As to when Bin Laden died, you may well be correct. But none of us knows for sure.

Presumably, Obama did it now for the same reasons he released his birth certificate now; for the same reasons he shuffled his cabinet/CIA now. And I'm sure if you looked closely enough, you'd find other things he has done now. I don't know precisely why he's doing them, but I do know they are of a single piece of cloth. Perhaps it's just the beginning of Campaign 2012.

James H. Fetzer
05-04-2011, 11:19 PM
Ed,

I would be very glad to do something like this. Let me give it some thought and get back to you about this. One great place to begin is a used book store, if you can locate a copy of Alex Michalos, PRINCIPLES OF LOGIC (1969), where Part II on inductive logic and especially the section on informal fallacies is the best that I've ever encountered. Used logic books are not in great demand, so you might be able to pick one up. When it went out of print, I simply xeroxed copies of that section (after obtaining the author's permission) and distributed them to students in my courses in critical thinking. There is also an excellent book titled FRAUDS, MYTHS AND MYSTERIES IN ARCHAEOLOGY by Kenneth Feder, which is now in one of its multiple printings. What is great about books like this is that USUALLY their earlier versions are better than their later ones, because in the earlier editions, the authors were very economical and clearly focused, while later editions tend to have extraneous material added. So if you can find ANY EDITION of that book, it would be terrific. I used it repeatedly in courses on science and pseudo-science, where I will get back to you with more about all of this. There is at least one more I should mention, which is UNDERSTANDING ARGUMENTS by Robert Fogelin. In later editions, he has a co-author. Once again, a used copy and an earlier edition works to your advantage. So see if you can track down these three books. I am glad to respond to your request and will do what I can to fulfill it. Many thanks! I greatly appreciate your asking.




The term "proof" has different meanings in mathematics, empirical science, and the law, where my background might contribute to issues like these.


Dr. Fetzer, I have asked before and I'll ask again (in the greater context of critical thinking) if you might perhaps post (in an appropriate thread elsewhere here) what you consider to be the finest sources of autodidactic learning about critical thinking that those of us who are beginners, or who are up in the cheap seats, can access online or in libraries or bookstores like Amazon, about the process and sub-tasks of critical discernment.

Please don't assume that means I am taking sides in this or some other debate, or that I write now with tongue either in cheek or barbed or forked.

Such a request might also be extended to all other active contributors to DPF.

We have a file of notable books on subjects within the world of deep politics. How about an online seminar featuring you, Peter Dale Scott and any other prominent luminaries in the field on proper approaches to research, reading, formulation of questions, and -- of course-- formulation of conclusions?

Jack White
05-05-2011, 01:08 AM
Right Jan, your complaints about Fetzer are most timely but he has always been in the business of getting those interested in going along with his deceptions, whether it be the JFk assassination, 9/11 or whatever.

My best experience with him was when he sent me an unsolicited copy of The Taking Of America, 1-2-3 by Richard E. Sprague which Fetzer sent me on April 3, 1998 in the hope of coopting me to give up my theory about Nixon being the ringleader of the JFK assassination, and also an unsolicited copy of Assassination Science in the hope to getting me to go along with his deep deceptions.

In the article on p. 78, Sprague said about my work on Compuiters and Automation and other sources: "Whether Nixon was directly involved in the PCG'S planning for the assassination is still open to question, although one researcher believes that he was."

No efforts by Fetzer to get me to change my mind have succeeded in the slightest bit.

The professor is apparently the government's leading spook.
.

Baloney. Fetzer is correct about FACTS 98 percent of the time.
He is wrong only on two minor subjects...JVB and CMH.

I agree that he should refrain from criticizing other researchers
just because they do not see matters as clearly as he does.

Fetzer is a true patriot. The same cannot be said of all his critics.

Jack

Totally unrelated to the Fetzer debate, or the OBL/Obama debate, or any other debate, perhaps a thread should be started in which "a true patriot" can be defined so we can ascertain and discern whether we ourselves meet the criteria.

I had a similar discussion elsewhere with someone else who was ranting about collapse and militia and such stuff and I asked him how one might know, in the middle of such chaos, how one had made contact with those who -- armed with long-range sniper rifles and such -- deemed themselves to be on the right side, whether they were friend (or foe). Were we to wear feathers in our hat-bands, upside-down tarot cards on our foreheads, insignia on our shoulders, or simply to transmit some secret signal like the hjck codes from our iPhone transponders?

A "true" patriot is one whose only agenda is TRUTH, regardless
of what the truth may be. A "true" patriot thinks for himself and does
not represent any governmental or political entity. A "true" patriot
has his eyes wide open and his brain in gear running on all cylinders
to examine all viewpoints and facts objectively, without regard to
other views. A "true" patriot is not a "superpatriot" who blindly follows
an extreme viewpoint established by others. A "true" patriot can discern
phoniness in persons and facts, and is well grounded in information and
facts. A "true" patriot can assimilate and compare "official stories",
propaganda, and documentation to determine truth. A "true" patriot
loves his country, but recogizes its faults when it is wrong. A "true"
patriot is more intelligent and in better control of facts than the ordinary
patriotic average citizen.

That describes many researchers I know...but I must say that not all
researchers are "true" patriots.

Jack

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 01:36 AM
A "true" patriot is one whose only agenda is TRUTH, regardless of what the truth may be. A "true" patriot thinks for himself and does not represent any governmental or political entity. A "true" patriot has his eyes wide open and his brain in gear running on all cylinders to examine all viewpoints and facts objectively, without regard to other views. A "true" patriot is not a "superpatriot" who blindly follows an extreme viewpoint established by others. A "true" patriot can discern phoniness in persons and facts, and is well grounded in information and facts. A "true" patriot can assimilate and compare "official stories", propaganda, and documentation to determine truth. A "true" patriot loves his country, but recogizes its faults when it is wrong. A "true"patriot is more intelligent and in better control of facts than the ordinary patriotic average citizen.




Many thanks, Jack. Well stated, and certainly something for me to hold out in front of me as a standard and a goal. May I use this statement elsewhere?

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 01:46 AM
Ed,

I would be very glad to do something like this. Let me give it some thought and get back to you about this. One great place to begin is a used book store, if you can locate a copy of Alex Michalos, PRINCIPLES OF LOGIC (1969), where Part II on inductive logic and especially the section on informal fallacies is the best that I've ever encountered. Used logic books are not in great demand, so you might be able to pick one up. When it went out of print, I simply xeroxed copies of that section (after obtaining the author's permission) and distributed them to students in my courses in critical thinking. There is also an excellent book titled FRAUDS, MYTHS AND MYSTERIES IN ARCHAEOLOGY by Kenneth Feder, which is now in one of its multiple printings. What is great about books like this is that USUALLY their earlier versions are better than their later ones, because in the earlier editions, the authors were very economical and clearly focused, while later editions tend to have extraneous material added. So if you can find ANY EDITION of that book, it would be terrific. I used it repeatedly in courses on science and pseudo-science, where I will get back to you with more about all of this. There is at least one more I should mention, which is UNDERSTANDING ARGUMENTS by Robert Fogelin. In later editions, he has a co-author. Once again, a used copy and an earlier edition works to your advantage. So see if you can track down these three books. I am glad to respond to your request and will do what I can to fulfill it. Many thanks! I greatly appreciate your asking.




The term "proof" has different meanings in mathematics, empirical science, and the law, where my background might contribute to issues like these.


Dr. Fetzer, I have asked before and I'll ask again (in the greater context of critical thinking) if you might perhaps post (in an appropriate thread elsewhere here) what you consider to be the finest sources of autodidactic learning about critical thinking that those of us who are beginners, or who are up in the cheap seats, can access online or in libraries or bookstores like Amazon, about the process and sub-tasks of critical discernment.

Please don't assume that means I am taking sides in this or some other debate, or that I write now with tongue either in cheek or barbed or forked.

Such a request might also be extended to all other active contributors to DPF.

We have a file of notable books on subjects within the world of deep politics. How about an online seminar featuring you, Peter Dale Scott and any other prominent luminaries in the field on proper approaches to research, reading, formulation of questions, and -- of course-- formulation of conclusions?


Thank you, Doctor Fetzer. I've just ordered your first and third suggestions (I won't be doing a lot of archaeology in the near future) from a used book seller via Amazon. Less than $17, shipping included.

James H. Fetzer
05-05-2011, 01:51 AM
Ed,

Good move. I thought later of suggesting using amazon.com for used books,
which can often be purchased at a cut rate. You really should get the Feder
book, which is quite fascinating. There are lots of issues about science and
pseudo-science that are dealt with there. And you won't regret purchasing it.

Jim



Ed,

I would be very glad to do something like this. Let me give it some thought and get back to you about this. One great place to begin is a used book store, if you can locate a copy of Alex Michalos, PRINCIPLES OF LOGIC (1969), where Part II on inductive logic and especially the section on informal fallacies is the best that I've ever encountered. Used logic books are not in great demand, so you might be able to pick one up. When it went out of print, I simply xeroxed copies of that section (after obtaining the author's permission) and distributed them to students in my courses in critical thinking. There is also an excellent book titled FRAUDS, MYTHS AND MYSTERIES IN ARCHAEOLOGY by Kenneth Feder, which is now in one of its multiple printings. What is great about books like this is that USUALLY their earlier versions are better than their later ones, because in the earlier editions, the authors were very economical and clearly focused, while later editions tend to have extraneous material added. So if you can find ANY EDITION of that book, it would be terrific. I used it repeatedly in courses on science and pseudo-science, where I will get back to you with more about all of this. There is at least one more I should mention, which is UNDERSTANDING ARGUMENTS by Robert Fogelin. In later editions, he has a co-author. Once again, a used copy and an earlier edition works to your advantage. So see if you can track down these three books. I am glad to respond to your request and will do what I can to fulfill it. Many thanks! I greatly appreciate your asking.




The term "proof" has different meanings in mathematics, empirical science, and the law, where my background might contribute to issues like these.


Dr. Fetzer, I have asked before and I'll ask again (in the greater context of critical thinking) if you might perhaps post (in an appropriate thread elsewhere here) what you consider to be the finest sources of autodidactic learning about critical thinking that those of us who are beginners, or who are up in the cheap seats, can access online or in libraries or bookstores like Amazon, about the process and sub-tasks of critical discernment.

Please don't assume that means I am taking sides in this or some other debate, or that I write now with tongue either in cheek or barbed or forked.

Such a request might also be extended to all other active contributors to DPF.

We have a file of notable books on subjects within the world of deep politics. How about an online seminar featuring you, Peter Dale Scott and any other prominent luminaries in the field on proper approaches to research, reading, formulation of questions, and -- of course-- formulation of conclusions?


Thank you, Doctor Fetzer. I've just ordered your first and third suggestions (I won't be doing a lot of archaeology in the near future) from a used book seller via Amazon. Less than $17, shipping included.

James H. Fetzer
05-05-2011, 01:55 AM
Something about Robert Burns, as I recall. Thanks for the gesture. Right on!


[QUOTE=James H. Fetzer;38219]
I think highly of Magda, but I tend to assume that those who post here are up-to-speed on these things, which, it turns out, is often a baseless assumption. I am a bit more perplexed that, when I suggest someone is not current, you come after me, hammer and tongs, but when some mindless twit accuses me of being "the government's leading spook", not a peep! Please explain. Am I missing something?



Trowbridge Ford's description of you as "the government's leading spook" was banal. It barely registered in my consciousness, and I ignored it out of ennui.

However, for the record, Trowbridge - you were out of line and should withdraw that remark.

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 02:40 AM
FBI Warns OBL Death Picture Trojan Trap
4
05
2011
FBI warns of death picture malware

May 03, 2011

Before clicking on a link purporting to show pictures or video of a dead Osama bin Laden, you might want check the source, said federal authorities today.

The FBI today issued a warning stating hackers and spammers have embedded malicious software, or “malware,” in bogus pages that can unleash computer-damaging viruses.

At least one version of the malware spreads to users’ contact lists, infecting the systems of business associates, friends and family.

“These viruses are often programmed to steal your personally identifiable information,” the FBI said.

The FBI suggests some basic precautions:

Don’t open unsolicited e-mail.

Have up-to-date fire wall and antivirus software running on your computer.

Adjust the privacy settings on social networking sites to make it more difficult for people you don’t know to post content on your pages.

Don’t agree to download software to view videos.

Report any e-mail you receive that purports to be from the FBI, they never send unsolicited e-mail.

Report viruses and scams to the Internet Crime Complaint Center at www.ic3.gov.

- Sam Wood

http://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2011/05/04/fbi-warns-obl-death-picture-trojan-trap/




[Warning: Everything you encounter on the Internet may radicalize you. We here at the Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation -- formerly home to J. Edna Hoover and recently with its own installed "cleaner" -- have contributed our own former Attorney General (the man who blushed at and covered up the nipple slip on the statue of Lady Justice -- you know, that gal holding the scales and a sword? ) to be the Ethics Officer for Blackwater/Xe, and we want YOU to clean up your act before you accidentally uncover something truly embarrassing.]

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 02:47 AM
Dr. Fetzer, I have not yet installed the right software...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkbU32X5dI

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 02:58 AM
WEDNESDAY, MAY 04, 2011

Obama's Osama IV
It is likely that Osama was being held prisoner by Pakistan in his Palestine-shaped compound (it was originally built in uninhabited area, so the shape was not constrained by his neighbors). He could have lived anywhere - why would he choose this particular place? The American right is trying to put the blame on Pakistan, claiming that he was being sheltered by the Islamist-leaning Pakistani military. I have no doubt that such elements exist in the Pakistani military, but it is not the only view, and Osama was in considerable risk living where he was. The logical conclusion is that he was being held there, stored until he could be useful for Pakistan. What does Pakistan get in return?

The vague and peculiar American story that Pakistan wasn't aware of bin Laden's presence, and wasn't given prior notice of the American attack - for fear, presumably, of tipping Osama off - is probably to cover for Pakistan's help in allowing American access to bin Laden, help that wouldn't go over very well in the Pakistani borderlands.

I'm thinking that Obama himself ordered the correction of the original lying Official Story. There were a lot of people in that room with him watching what happened in real time. Some may come out with memoirs, which could be embarrassing to Obama if they stated the truth of what happened. Hillary would love to show that Obama let the lies stand.

In a logical world, if bin Laden is the grand terrorist mastermind running the show that American propagandists would have you believe, the Americans would do anything to take him alive so they could question him in an effort to disband the 'al Qaeda' network. Instead, they just shot him dead and gave a lie to explain why. Was this a mistake, or did they know he had no useful information as he was a CIA asset all along?
AT 5/04/2011 01:07:00 PM

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2011/05/obamas-osama-iv.html

Comment by stupiddy Today 04:35 PM


They have his DNA. That's proof right there. I've seen pictures of his DNA... and it's him.

The most worrisome part of all this is if his DNA gets into the wrong hands, say the Russians for example or the Venezuelans, they could reproduce it and forcibly impregnate trafficked girls from Albania with it and the next thing you know you have thousands of 6'6" tall Bin Ladens running around all over the world terrorizing everyone without pause.

I have great faith in our brave young fighting men, women and drones. But I am also a realistic American who has experienced first hand the terror of terrorists terrorizing.

This whole story rings strangely familiar. Wasn't there another bearded man who had something like this happen to him, where the occupiers....

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 03:12 AM
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/05/it-was-pak-forces-who-attacked-compound.html

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/05/cia-safe-house-in-abbottabad.html

James H. Fetzer
05-05-2011, 03:22 AM
Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations
Steve R. Pieczenik says he is prepared to tell a federal grand jury the name of a
top general who told him directly 9/11 was a false flag attack.

http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
May 4, 2011

Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous
different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works
with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday
that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front
of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag
inside job.

Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a ?conspiracy theorist?. He served as the Deputy
Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and
Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a
consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik
achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School
as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.

Official story:

Official: Osama bin Laden is dead
www.msnbc.msn.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com)
Osama bin Laden is dead and US has body, says person familiar with
developments.

For a dissenting view, here's a quote (from "James Henry Fetzer",
facebook):

One of the most blatant acts of bullshit in our nation's history! A
man who could so directly and baldly lie in announcing the death of
a man who died on or about 15 December 2001 could also directly and
baldly lie about his birth certificate! They are announcing that Osama
was taken out by Obama. Now the wars can continue, the predator drones
can keep killing, and no one will care about where Barack was born!

The claim is made that Osama "confessed", when he did nothing of the
sort. In the only authentic interview we have, he explained that he
had nothing to do with 9/11; that he was upset with the US because
it had stationed troops in Saudi Arabia, the home of Mecca and Medina,
the two most holy sites in Islam; that killing innocent women and
children is contrary to the tenets of Islam; and that there is a
government-within-the-government in America that appears to have been
responsible for these atrocities and blaming those acts on Muslims.

Excellent article:

"Obama's 'Big Lie': White House Propaganda and the 'Death' of Osama bin Laden" by Larry Chin May 2, 2011)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24594

Latest report:

Osama bin Laden corpse photo is fake (2 May 2011)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-
fake?CMP=twt_fd

Another skeptic:

Osama bin Laden's Second Death (May 2, 2011)
By Dr. Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24587

Related article:

"On the Ethical Conduct of Warfare: Predator Drones" (22 February 2011)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23324

Historical context:

9/11 ANALYSIS: From Ronald Reagan and the Soviet-Afghan War to George W Bush and September 11, 2001 by Michel Chossudovsky (September 9, 2010)
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20958

Earlier article:

Gordon Duff, CIA HINTS, BIN LADEN DEAD SINCE "EARLY 2000's" (June 29, 2010)
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/06/29/gordon-duff-cia-hints-bin-
laden-dead-since-early-2000s/

Griffin's book:

David Ray Griffin, OSAMA BIL LADEN: DEAD OR ALIVE? (2009)
http://www.amazon.com/Osama-Bin-Laden-Dead-Alive/dp/1566567831

Griffin's article:

"Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?" (October 9, 2009)
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15601

An interview with someone who would know:

Benazir Bhutto: Bin Laden was Murdered (2007)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg
NOTE: This may have been a mistatement by BB.

FBI acknowledgement:

FBI says, "No hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11" (June 10, 2006)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2623

Scholars press release:

28 May 2006 - OSAMA TAPE APPEARS TO BE FAKE, EXPERTS CONCLUDE
http://twilightpines.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&
Itemid=67

Report: Bin Laden Already Dead (December 26, 2001)

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the
Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

An interview with a CIA agent the day after 9/11:

CIA veteran doubts the bin Laden story (September 12, 2001)
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/744.html

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 04:01 AM
Day of the Dead: The Hit Man as Hero

WRITTEN BY CHRIS FLOYD
WEDNESDAY, 04 MAY 2011 16:08

http://www.chris-floyd.com/images/stories/170px-catrinas_2.jpg


(UPDATED BELOW)

(UPDATED AGAIN)


Already the story is starting to unravel, mutate, transmogrify. Government statements that were presented as gospel truths in every media outlet in the world, and which served as the basis for ten thousand earnest, serious commentaries, turn out, one day later, to have been false.

We had been told – by the president’s top “counterterrorism adviser,” John Brennan – that Osama had been “engaged in a firefight” when he was gunned down by American agents. This was not true; it turns out that he was unarmed when they shot him in the head. We were told that the base coward used his wife as a human shield while he pumped hot lead at America’s boys. This was not true. There were no human shields – although Osama’s wife was shot in the leg, while another woman, wife to a bin Laden aide, was shot and killed by the agents.

Of course, even these new officially released“facts” must be taken with a grain of salt, since they spring from the same impenetrable murk of the security apparat from whence the original story of the raid emerged. Will these new details change tomorrow?

(Meanwhile, actual reporters doing actual reporting independently uncovered another falsehood in the first story: the compound that was raided in Abbottabad was not a “million-dollar mansion,” but a rather ordinary house in a middle-class area, worth about $250,000.)

In any case, we are told by the Fightin’ Patriotic Progressives who now stand foursquare behind the apparat that we should not trouble our little heads over these “discrepancies.” Such things are to be expected in the “fog of war.” (But didn’t the president and his national security team – including John Brennan – actually watch the raid unfold on live video feed? Didn’t Brennan see what happened with his own eyes?)

Or if not fog, then the original misinformation can be put down to “subconscious” mythologizing, as Digby tells us. ("I think it was mythologizing for the sake of mythologizing, even if it was subconscious.") Our leaders wanted an old-fashioned cowboy shoot-out for the big climax of the bin Laden story, and so, somehow, the counterterrorism chief of the United States just, you know, subconsciously rearranged the facts to fit the myth. But as Digby sternly warns us: “Let's not get stupid. The fact that they embellished doesn't mean it didn't happen.” That’s true; but “the fact that they embellished” does mean that we would be, well, stupid to accept anything that belches forth from the Secret State at face value.

I don’t mean to pick on Digby; but the post linked above serves as an almost perfect example of the moral schizophrenia that has gripped the progressive movement since the advent of Obama. At one point, she rightly notes that no one would have been bothered if the Administration had admitted from the start that bin Laden was unarmed when they killed him. As she says, the assassination scenario was duly praised by such rock-ribbed liberal icons as Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert; and she notes, astutely, “I don't think there's any political downside, and in fact it probably makes them look more macho in the eyes of the people.”

(Indeed; all manner of liberals have been exulting in the new image of Obama the Heroic Hit Man. For example, Juan Cole and James Wolcott – both long-time scourges of the witless, brutal militarism of the Bush Regime – posted up a lolcat-style photo of a cool, grinning Obama in shades, emblazoned with the tagline, “Sorry it took so long to get you a copy of my birth certificate – I was too busy killing Osama bin Laden.”)

Digby then goes on to offer up another telling – and damning – insight:

Besides, the question of whether the president could order an assassination was settled some time ago. They assert the right to keep prisoners in jail forever and kill American citizens, and nobody cares, so why in the world would there be any domestic blowback for ordering the death of the world's most wanted man?

Here is where the schizophrenia sets in. It is obvious, from this and other posts, that Digby is horrified and outraged at Obama’s open claim of this universal license to kill and imprison with impunity. That is, she fully recognizes that the United States government is led by a man who believes he can murder anyone he pleases, at any time, at his own arbitrary decision. She knows that he has used this power over and over, most extensively in Pakistan, where even by the most conservative estimates hundreds of innocent people – including many women and children – have been killed in Obama’s drone missile campaign.

She knows, in other words, that Obama has killed hundreds of innocent people. Hundreds of innocent people. Little children, women, old folks, young marrieds, fathers, mothers, teenagers – he has killed them in their own homes, in the streets of their villages, in their cars, at their weddings and funerals and birthday parties and family gatherings, raining down missiles, without warning, with no way to escape, no defense, killed them, the babies, the children, the old, the sick, ripped their bodies to shreds, buried them under rubble, tore off their heads, set them on fire to die in the purest agony. She knows this. She decries this. She believes it is wrong. Yet the general thrust of her widely read blog is that this man who does these things, who commits these horrors, who claims these murderous, tyrannous powers, should, at all costs, be retained in power so that he can carry on doing these things which sicken and horrify her.

But this is not simply a case of lesser evilism in a system where all the alternatives are grim – i.e., “Well, Göring is a monster but he’s probably marginally better than Hitler; let’s support a bloody coup to install him as Führer”. No; Digby and many other progressives whose writings show they are perfectly aware of the atrocities that Obama has committed and the evil policies he embraces – such as the unrestricted license to kill – still display an active affection and celebratory support for him. To them, even though he has killed these people and claimed these awful powers, he is still one cool guy.

Witness their delight at Obama’s comedy routine at the Correspondent’s Dinner last week, when he poked fun at the pathetic Donald Trump, garnering big yocks from the Beltway elite – even as NATO missiles were killing three young grandchildren of Moamar Gadafy: more child sacrifices offered up on the altar of our modern Molochs. They didn't even notice.

Oh, they often shake their heads sadly or waggle their fingers sternly at some action or policy of Obama’s. They often can’t understand why he does these things – cut taxes for the rich, bail out the bankers, torture Bradley Manning, form commissions to gut Social Security, escalate and prolong the Terror War, kill hundreds of people with drone missiles, etc., etc. But nothing douses their fundamental (fundamentalist?) fervor to keep him in power and to scorn those who oppose him. Nothing keeps them from seeing themselves as his true and faithful "base," still waiting for him to return to them, despite his many betrayals. (Subconscious betrayals, no doubt.)

And we can expect more encomiums to the president’s eloquence and heroism from these quarters on Thursday, when, with the good taste and tact so characteristic of our bipartisan ruling class, Obama goes to the site of the 9/11 attacks in New York City to celebrate the shooting of an unarmed man in the head.

Yes, the president of the United States, accompanied by various Establishment worthies and doubtless a few dignified clerics, will stand at Ground Zero to glorify a killing that his own minions tell us will change nothing whatsoever: the wars will go on, “vigilance will be redoubled” (i.e., civil liberties will continue to be eroded, black ops will continue in the 70 countries or more where America is carrying out covert operations), the Secret State will keep growing, the universal license to kill and snatch and incarcerate and torture will remain in full force. So what exactly is being celebrated?

A cynic – or someone being skeptically “stupid” in the Digbyian sense – might say the occasion is more exploitation than celebration: exploiting the grief of the families of 9/11 survivors who will be trotted out to express their tearful gratitude to the president who has given them “closure” – and who will reap the poll bounce from this moment of “national unity,” just as his predecessor rode a similar exploitation of death to his own re-election.

Oh, but let us not be stupid. Let us acknowledge that the president kills innocent people and “asserts the right to keep prisoners in jail forever and kill American citizens” and puts out false information (subconsciously, of course! Always subconsciously!) about murky operations which we must take on faith like dutiful subjects in militarized state, not fully-fledged citizens in a republic – but let us still revel in his triumphs, delight in his eloquence, and work with all our strength to make sure he continues to invert, pervert and subvert every progressive value we hold dear.

That’s not “stupid” at all, is it?

***

UPDATE: Administration officials are now denying that Obama's national security team watched the execution of bin Laden on video feed, as was originally reported. Officials now say that the team was receiving "minute-by-minute updates" -- via unspecified technology -- and that, according to CIA honcho Leon Panetta, "there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes that we really didn't know just exactly what was going on." That would be the 20 or 25 minutes when the actual killing took place, presumably.

It's hard to understand how this wild story about the team watched the whole thing unfold in real time. Just one of those crazy urban myths, I guess. Or perhaps it was because of this bit of "subconscious mythologizing" that was offered up by the president's own chief adviser on counterterrorism, John Brennan, just two days ago:

"We were able to monitor in a real-time basis the progress of the operation from its commencement to its time on target to the extraction of the remains and to then the egress off of the target… we were able to monitor the situation in real time and were able to have regular updates and to ensure that we had real-time visibility into the progress of the operation. I'm not going to go into details about what type of visuals we had or what type of feeds that were there, but it was – it gave us the ability to actually track it on an ongoing basis."

I suppose really vague language like "we were able to monitor in a real-time basis the progress of the operation" from the start to the kill to the "extraction of the remains" and the grand skeedaddle could be twisted by stupid conspiracy theorists into some kind of cockamamie notion that Barry and Hill and, er, John Brennan, had, well, monitored the operation in real time. But now we know better.

UPDATE 2: There will doubtless be more backtracking and backfilling and sidestepping and subconscious mythologizing in the days to come. For it turns out that the crack crew of American agents left a whole group of eyewitnesses to the operation behind -- including the 12-year-old daughter of bin Laden, who saw her father killed -- and was also wounded in the attack.

As the Guardian reports, at least 10 people were left behind after the raid -- presumably because the raiding party did not have room to cart them off after losing one of their helicopters before the kill. Pakistani officials found the survivors -- including bin Laden's wife and the wounded daughter -- when they arrived on the scene just after the American exit. All of the survivors had been handcuffed, Pakistani officials said. The Americans also left four dead bodies behind: three men and a woman, taking only bin Laden and his dead son. From the Guardian:

Local authorities arrived on the scene of the raid as American special forces were leaving. It is believed that the attackers originally planned to evacuate all those in the compound but the breakdown of a helicopter meant there was no space to take them.

Instead, only the bodies of Bin Laden and his son Hamza, who was in his early 20s, were taken to the aircraft carrier the USS Carl Vinson and buried at sea. Survivors were left with their hands fastened with plastic handcuffs, a second Pakistani official said, adding that initial communications with the survivors had been difficult as the Pakistani police and military arriving at the scene did not speak Arabic.

The survivors are now being held by the Pakistanis, who say they will return them to their home countries as soon as the respective governments ask for them. At the moment, they are not allowing American agents to interrogate them -- strenuously or otherwise. But no doubt as the survivors' stories begin to emerge -- and yes, they will have their own spin and agenda, just like Obama and his subconsciously mythologizing security apparatchiks -- we will see several more "corrections" of the "historical record" now being woven and re-woven in front of our eyes.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2125-day-of-the-dead-the-hit-man-as-hero-.html

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 04:14 AM
25-Minute blackout during raid on bin Laden compound
May 4, 2011 by legitgov

25-Minute blackout during raid on bin Laden compound --The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events. 04 May 2011 Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off. A photograph released by the White House appeared to show the President and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.

http://www.legitgov.org/25-Minute-blackout-during-raid-bin-Laden-compound

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 04:16 AM
Bin Laden could be dead: terrorism expert - January 2006
May 4, 2011 by legitgov


Bin Laden could be dead: terrorism expert 16 Jan 2006 An Australian terrorism expert says he has been given evidence, which could show Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden is either seriously ill or dead. Professor Clive Williams from Macquarie University says he has been provided with evidence, by an Indian colleague, to support the theory that bin Laden died of massive organ failure in April last year. "...[I]t does seem reasonably convincing based on the evidence that I've been provided with that he's certainly either severely incapacitated or dead at this stage," Professor Williams siad.[sic]

http://www.legitgov.org/Bin-Laden-could-be-dead-terrorism-expert-January-2006

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 04:49 AM
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/shouldweturnonthelaptops.jpg

Ed Jewett
05-05-2011, 05:02 AM
Wednesday, May 4, 2011
"On the Rocks," The Re-Death of Bin Laden's Frozen Corpse (BBC/VT Broadcast)


THE "OSAMA-SICKLE"
THE FAIRY TALES START AGAIN…
Osama bin Laden’s death, who do you believe?


BBC WORLD SERVICE WITH VETERANS TODAY EDITORS ALAN SABROSKY AND GORDON DUFF DISCUSSING THE “DEATH” OF OSAMA BIN LADEN


By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor

The incident this week in Abbottabad, Pakistan was always intended to be “self-discrediting.” In a time of rigged voting machines and rule by decree, a time of military tribunals and tortured defendants, the concept of evidence and accountability is a joke. Consider the current bin Laden farce what it was intended to be, the American government reminding its people and the people of the world how little respect it has for them.

There is no need for conspiracy theory, no need for talk of hoaxes, we have gone far beyond that. Evidence of bin Laden’s death being covered up by the Bush administration is, not only overwhelming, but long ago entered the public domain.
As the hours pass and reality soaks in, a more serious question arises; “Why now?”

Newshounds and insiders are aware that Wikileaks has been proven to have ties to an intelligence organization hostile to, not just Iran and Pakistan but the United States as well. Though the story broke last summer, it wasn’t until early December, 2010 that Zbigniew Brzezinski provided confirmation. So when Wikileaks, only a few days ago, announced that a nuclear weapon had been placed “underneath” a major European target by “Al Qaeda” to be detonated upon the capture of Osama bin Laden, a man most knew to be dead for a decade, “insiders” became both fearful and vigilant.

Real insiders are far more wary of threats from Wikileaks than “Al Qaeda.” Wikileak threats come true, is that, just perhaps, because they come from people capable of making them come true?

Two things happened:

Intelligence agencies across Europe went on full alert, searching for a nuclear weapon

A vigil began, seeing how many hours before Osama bin Laden’s corpse would be “killed” in a heroic episode of “counter-terrorism” that would also be used to damn Pakistan.

The idea of bin Laden’s death has settled in. The factions have taken stock, conspiracy theorists, the government apologists and disinformationalists and the professionals. Years ago, top military and intel insiders had all agreed bin Laden died in late 2001. The CIA’s director, Leon Panetta, now Secretary of Defense stated, flat out, that nothing had been heard of bin Laden since “late 2001.” By saying this, he indicated with categorical certainty, that all supposed Al Qaeda or bin Laden statements since that time were deemed “unreliable” by the CIA.

Expect video of bin Laden’s killing to be released, medals to be given out, backs to be slapped and, as usual, pockets to be lined. The videos could be as old as the frozen corpse of bin Laden himself, dumped into the Indian Ocean.

There has been little out of Washington DC since the “world domination” cabal, PNAC (Project for a New American Century) or the Brzezinski “World Chessboard” counterparts outlined the need for a “Pearl Harbour scale” event with a “cardboard cutout” boogeyman to act as backdrop for re-engineering the face of the planet. After the “event,” we would see the seizure of Central Asia’s hydrocarbon resources, the collapse of the world’s monetary systems and a political upheaval to spread across the world that would leave every political institution in every country vulnerable to the dictates of an unseen “globalist” hand.

Is there any surprise that the “reported” killing of Osama bin Laden has not been accepted in the United States as more than “ho hum” news? First off, the wingnuts have created a new Obama conspiracy and, as usual, they have gotten it totally wrong. The staging of the bin Laden “street theatre” has far more ominous consequences than the simple manipulation of public opinion in the United States.
Now, out from under rocks, from the deepest recesses of the political world, the long discredited characters like Donald Rumsfeld, are now crawling out into the sunlight, fabricating wild conspiracy tales to support their criminal acts, the kidnapping, murder and torture that they inflicted on the world on a scale not seen since the death of Adolf Hitler.

Let’s not let facts get in the way.

First of all, for those of you who don’t know it, bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11, was charged with nothing about it. Secondly, the criminal charges against bin Laden were not backed by any evidence, not enough for an honest indictment.
Osama bin Laden was a CIA fundraiser with no experience whatsoever in terrorist activities, military planning, weapons, explosives or leading people. Furthermore, Sibel Edmonds, former FBI translator (and VT staff writer) had, during her employment, seen documents verifying Osama bin Laden’s continued service to the United States, even on 9/11/2001. He was assisting the CIA in funding covert operations while the World Trade Center was being demolished and the documents prove it.

The reports released to the public, beginning with the falsified “death photo” published by the Associated Press to the stories of bin Laden using his wife as a “human shield” are, each, wilder than the rest. Each story is carefully calculated to misdirect attention from real questions of import. Asking how real or imaginary bin Laden, most likely no more alive than a chicken leg after a microwave defrost cycle, “acted” when confronted by 25 Navy Seals is no more valid than those dedicated to 9/11 Truth bickering about explosive compounds that brought down Building 7 when the real issues of who was responsible are allowed to “slip away” unnoticed like a thief in the night.

What can we say about Osama bin Laden? He is certainly dead now and has, in all probability, been dead for a decade. We can also expect that his “public” death will act as a harbinger of misfortune for the world, heralding a period of long calculated destabilization aimed at Pakistan and Iran, but ultimately striking the heart of America and NATO.

What we can expect is an act of carefully staged “false flag” revenge.

The frozen body of Osama bin Laden, very real “currency,” would not have been spent on less.

http://redactednews.blogspot.com/2011/05/on-rocks-re-death-of-bin-ladens-frozen.html

Peter Lemkin
05-05-2011, 05:58 AM
25-Minute blackout during raid on bin Laden compound
May 4, 2011 by legitgov

25-Minute blackout during raid on bin Laden compound --The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events. 04 May 2011 Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off. A photograph released by the White House appeared to show the President and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.

http://www.legitgov.org/25-Minute-blackout-during-raid-bin-Laden-compound

Well, this story [and it seems to be ONLY a story, at this point] is getting mighty strange; and stranger and stranger ad infinitum. I haven't double-checked the above [if one can indeed check anything well in the dark world of spookdom!], but if so, we really have been sold a phony story and they didn't even send out the same script to everyone...as it keeps changing! Then what the hell were they watching....and if they thought it was live, but was on 'time delay' that allows for all kinds of mischief in editing, changing, etc.....just like the Z film diversion to Kodak. Again, it seems to show that a President is not the one in control - though they may think they are [that, I even doubt].

I agree highly with Magda, Jan and others who are putting more emphasis [at this point] on the why now? question, than the if OBL died long ago, not so long ago or on Monday. Perhaps he is still alive, for all I know....but it is not likely, as that would really be embarrassing..but in spookdom, all is possible. Any false reality can be created. I think it is too early to draw all the evidence, versions, morphing of the story and other information from Monday's piece of theater in Pakistan. The role of OBL as America's main bogeyman was quite an accomplishment. If they chose to close it down, they must have a new one at hand. The article a few pages back connecting quite well the release [in various redacted forms] of the GITMO files to the events on Monday are very interesting, as one prisoner's file showed that he had been known to be OBL's courier and to live in the same town as the 'OBL compound' and travel often to Afghanistan and other places of 'interest' since 2005, if not before. Why wait six years, if this is so?

Jim F., I don't discount that OBL might have long been dead and it will be easier to examine both [or all] versions of his deaths in a few months. There may well have been more than one OBL, as there were more than one LHO! Will the real OBL please roll over in his grave!

I think more than anything this all shows how we [and the Sheeple, the general public] are manipulated with false stories, changing stories - with no logic for the changes, fabricated events, stories, legends and wars and conflicts, operations and black ops for reasons other than we are told [if we are told at all they ever happened]. If anyone had any illusions that the Bush nightmare was over with Obama, they should by now have been disabused of that! The Covert State, the Deep Political State is firmly in control, the propaganda apparatus well-oiled and, sadly, most are entirely fooled. At least there still are some who can see they are being lied to and misled and attempt to see through all the smoke and mirrors. Carry on.

Jack, great definition of a true Patriot!

Albert Doyle
05-05-2011, 06:10 AM
Maybe they are putting out deliberately doctored photos in order to do psy-ops against people who accuse them of doctoring photos. That way they could play with conspiracy theorists' heads whether the event was real or not.

James H. Fetzer
05-05-2011, 07:22 AM
The Great Osama Bin Laden Hoax
How the FBI made up a bogey man
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/59.html

The Nine Lives of Osama bin Laden
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/1092.html

Osama bin Laden A US invention
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZNO8gEMQ1U&feature=uploademail

CIA veteran doubts the bin Laden story
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3gu4l1SdGM&feature=uploademail

Al Qaeda Doesn't Exist Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek7ZHenQnu4

Al Qaeda Doesn't Exist Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnV_pNe_BB0&feature=related

Osama bin Laden is Dead (2007)
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/242.html

Peter Lemkin
05-05-2011, 07:38 AM
Maybe they are putting out deliberately doctored photos in order to do psy-ops against people who accuse them of doctoring photos. That way they could play with conspiracy theorists' heads whether the event was real or not.

Even the term 'real or not' has lost its meaning - in the events on Monday or any other [fill in the black] covert op / assassination / war and reason for war / bankster op / election fraud / etc. / ad naseum. How 'real' can it be [yes, somethings happened, and likely some people really got killed] when the story keeps changing?....despite at least 20 top honchos watched in real time [or were they?] and hundreds of others behind the scenes watched and recorded all.

Yes, they are always playing with people's heads, but I think they care less about the few researchers or those who see past the smoke and mirrors, who question the official versions - but are focused on Mr. and Ms. 'We are number one! Go America!' crowd. They are as clay in the hands of the puppeteers.

James H. Fetzer
05-05-2011, 08:46 AM
This means that the photograph showing the White House watching the faked event of a Seal team killing a man who was already dead was itself staged! The incompetence of this administration with its phony birth certificate and now this fabricated murder of a man who died in Afghanistan on or about 15 December 2011 is a farce, something we might expect from the Marx Brothers or perhaps of "The Three Stooges"!


25-Minute blackout during raid on bin Laden compound
May 4, 2011 by legitgov

25-Minute blackout during raid on bin Laden compound --The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events. 04 May 2011 Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off. A photograph released by the White House appeared to show the President and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.

http://www.legitgov.org/25-Minute-blackout-during-raid-bin-Laden-compound

Jack White
05-05-2011, 12:48 PM
A "true" patriot is one whose only agenda is TRUTH, regardless of what the truth may be. A "true" patriot thinks for himself and does not represent any governmental or political entity. A "true" patriot has his eyes wide open and his brain in gear running on all cylinders to examine all viewpoints and facts objectively, without regard to other views. A "true" patriot is not a "superpatriot" who blindly follows an extreme viewpoint established by others. A "true" patriot can discern phoniness in persons and facts, and is well grounded in information and facts. A "true" patriot can assimilate and compare "official stories", propaganda, and documentation to determine truth. A "true" patriot loves his country, but recogizes its faults when it is wrong. A "true"patriot is more intelligent and in better control of facts than the ordinary patriotic average citizen.




Many thanks, Jack. Well stated, and certainly something for me to hold out in front of me as a standard and a goal. May I use this statement elsewhere?

Of course anyone can use it. It is only a common sense definition
that anyone could make.

Thanks.

Jack

James H. Fetzer
05-05-2011, 02:28 PM
What happened right before the OBL event?

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/1093.html

My opinion is that there were multiple reasons:

(1) the fake birth-certificate was backfiring;

(2) troops in Pakistan were causing problems;

(3) the Guantanamo trials were not going over;

(4) enthusiasm for the "war on terror" is waning;

(5) too many are being killed by predator drones;

(6) his poll numbers were falling into the toilet;

By now declaring that Osama has been killed, he

~(1) wiped the birth-certificate issue off the board;

~(2) created enthusiasm for having troops in Pakistan;

~(3) calmed criticism of using torture at Guantanamo;

~(4) rekindled public toleration for the "war on terror";

~(5) distracts from killing 140 innocents for each target;

~(6) bumps his poll numbers, at least for the time being.

What he and his staff did not anticipate was that this kind
of blatant fakery is something that a large segment of the
public can see through and has the potential to backfire.

If they are willing to stage a White House photograph that
includes the President and the Secretary of State watching
a fake event that they could not have seen, all bets are off.




And this is the nub.

It is entirely possible that Bin Laden died in December 2001. It is not proven on the available evidence.

It is entirely possible that Bin Laden (or a version of Bin Laden) died in May 2011. It is not proven on the available evidence.

My own view, as stated throughout this thread, is that the most important deep political question is not whether Bin Laden died, but why the American President decided to kill the legend of Osama on May 2, 2011?

WHY NOW?

This question matters regardless of whether Bin Laden died in December 2001, May 2011, is still alive, never existed, etc etc etc.

Why has Obama decided to declare, with full fanfare, that this impotent, iconic, phantasm has been ritually slaughtered by American heroes at this moment in time?

Many of us on this thread have drawn attention to the sloppy nature of the production. Indeed, I've recorded some of the original official MSM narrative in this thread, so that we can watch it unravel in real time. And unravelling it is, at a breakneck speed.

It is important that we continue to investigate and unpick the officially presented "evidence" to discover what really happened, and why this charade has been played now.

As to when Bin Laden died, you may well be correct. But none of us knows for sure.

Presumably, Obama did it now for the same reasons he released his birth certificate now; for the same reasons he shuffled his cabinet/CIA now. And I'm sure if you looked closely enough, you'd find other things he has done now. I don't know precisely why he's doing them, but I do know they are of a single piece of cloth. Perhaps it's just the beginning of Campaign 2012.

James H. Fetzer
05-05-2011, 02:43 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24625

SKEPTICISM: The Agendas Behind the Bin Laden News Event

When the Lie Becomes the Truth...

by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

Global Research, May 4, 2011

The US government’s bin Laden story was so poorly crafted that it did not last 48 hours before being fundamentally altered. Indeed, the new story put out on Tuesday by White House press secretary Jay Carney bears little resemblance to the original Sunday evening story. The fierce firefight did not occur. Osama bin Laden did not hide behind a woman. Indeed, bin Laden, Carney said, “was not armed.”

The firefight story was instantly suspicious as not a single SEAL got a scratch, despite being up against al Qaeda, described by former Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld as ‘the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth.”

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43817

Every original story detail has been changed. It wasn’t bin Laden’s wife who was murdered by the Navy SEALs , but the wife of an aide. It wasn’t bin Laden’s son, Khalid, who was murdered by the Navy SEALs, but son Hamza.

Carney blamed the changed story on “the fog of war.” But there was no firefight, so where did the “fog of war” come from?

The White House has also had to abandon the story that President Obama and his national security team watched tensely as events unfolded in real time (despite the White House having released photos of the team watching tensely), with the operation conveyed into the White House by cameras on the SEALs helmets. If Obama was watching the event as it happened, he would have noticed, one would hope, that there was no firefight and, thus, would not have told the public that bin Laden was killed in a firefight. Another reason the story had to be abandoned is that if the event was captured on video, every news service in the world would be asking for the video, but if the event was orchestrated theater, there would be no video.

No explanation has been provided for why an unarmed bin Laden, in the absence of a firefight, was murdered by the SEALs with a shot to the head. For those who believe the government’s story that “we got bin Laden,” the operation can only appear as the most botched operation in history. What kind of incompetence does it require to senselessly and needlessly kill the most valuable intelligence asset on the planet?

According to the US government, the terrorist movements of the world operated through bin Laden, “the mastermind.” Thanks to a trigger-happy stupid SEAL, a bullet destroyed the most valuable terrorist information on the planet. Perhaps the SEAL was thinking that he could put a notch on his gun and brag for the rest of his life about being the macho tough guy who killed Osama bin Laden, the most dangerous man on the planet, who outwitted the US and its European and Israeli allies and inflicted humiliation on the “world’s only superpower” on 9/11.

When such a foundational story as the demise of bin Laden cannot last 48 hours without acknowledged “discrepancies” that require fundamental alternations to the story, there are grounds for suspicion in addition to the suspicions arising from the absence of a dead body, from the absence of any evidence that bin Laden was killed in the raid or that a raid even took place. The entire episode could just be another event like the August 4, 1964, Gulf of Tonkin event that never happened but succeeded in launching open warfare against North Vietnam at a huge cost to Americans and Vietnamese and enormous profits to the military/security complex.

There is no doubt that the US is sufficiently incompetent to have needlessly killed bin Laden instead of capturing him. But who can believe that the US would quickly dispose of the evidence that bin Laden had been terminated? The government’s story is not believable that the government dumped the proof of its success into the ocean, but has some photos that might be released, someday.

As one reader put it in an email to me: “What is really alarming is the increasingly arrogant sloppiness of these lies, as though the government has become so profoundly confident of their ability to deceive people that they make virtually no effort to even appear credible.”

Governments have known from the beginning of time that they can always deceive citizens and subjects by playing the patriot card. “Remember the Maine,” the “Gulf of Tonkin,” “weapons of mass destruction,” “the Reichstag fire”--the staged events and bogus evidence are endless. If Americans knew any history, they would not be so gullible.

The real question before us is: What agenda or agendas is the “death of bin Laden” designed to further?

There are many answers to this question. Many have noticed that Obama was facing re-election with poor approval ratings. Is anyone surprised that the New York Times/CBS Poll finds a strong rise in Obama’s poll numbers after the bin Laden raid? As the New York Times reported, “the glow of national pride” rose “above partisan politics, as support for the president rose significantly among both Republicans and independents. In all, 57 percent said they now approved of the president’s job performance, up from 46 percent.”

In Washington-think, a 24% rise in approval rating justifies a staged event.

Another possibility is that Obama realized that the the budget deficit and the dollar’s rescue from collapse require the end of the expensive Afghan war and occupation and spillover war into Pakistan. As the purpose of the war was to get bin Laden, success in this objective allows the US to withdraw without loss of face, thus making it possible to reduce the US budget deficit by several hundred billion dollars annually--an easy way to have a major spending cut.

If this is the agenda, then more power to it. However, if this was Obama’s agenda, the military/security complex has quickly moved against it. CIA director Leon Panetta opened the door to false flag attacks to keep the war going by declaring that al Qaeda would avenge bin Laden’s killing. Secretary of State Clinton declared that success in killing bin Laden justified more war and more success. Homeland Security declared that the killing of bin Laden would motivate “homegrown violent extremists” into making terrorist attacks. “Homegrown violent extremists” is an undefined term, but this newly created bogyman seems to include environmentalists and war protesters. Like “suspect,” the term will include anyone the government wants to pick up.

Various parts of the government quickly seized on the success in killing bin Laden to defend and advance their own agendas, such as torture. Americans were told that bin Laden was found as a result of information gleaned from torturing detainees held in Eastern European CIA secret prisons years ago.

This listing of possible agendas and add-on agendas is far from complete, but for those capable of skepticism and independent thought, it can serve as a starting point. The agendas behind the theater will reveal themselves as time goes on. All you have to do is to pay attention and to realize that most of what you hear from the mainstream media is designed to advance the agendas.

James H. Fetzer
05-05-2011, 03:38 PM
This case of the staged photograph at the White House is quite revealing. Here's a report:

President Obama Watched Live Video Of Bin Laden Raid As It Happened
Henry Blodget | May 2, 2011, 11:32 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-watched-live-video-of-bin-laden-raid-2011-5

President Obama watched live video of the raid on Bin Laden's compound yesterday, a source tells us.

In operations like this, our source says, soldiers and pilots often carry helmet cameras, and screens in
situation rooms can carry live images from all of them.

In a press conference this afternoon, head of counter-terrorism John Brennan said Obama's reaction when
Bin Laden was killed was "We got him."

Here's a remarkable photo from the White House situation room during the raid:

http://www.polls.newsvine.com/_vine/images/users/600/WillFemia/6572653.jpg

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-watched-live-video-of-bin-laden-raid-2011-5#ixzz1LUZAVurs

Peter Lemkin
05-05-2011, 06:01 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24625

SKEPTICISM: The Agendas Behind the Bin Laden News Event

When the Lie Becomes the Truth...

by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

Global Research, May 4, 2011

The US government’s bin Laden story was so poorly crafted that it did not last 48 hours before being fundamentally altered. Indeed, the new story put out on Tuesday by White House press secretary Jay Carney bears little resemblance to the original Sunday evening story. The fierce firefight did not occur. Osama bin Laden did not hide behind a woman. Indeed, bin Laden, Carney said, “was not armed.”

The firefight story was instantly suspicious as not a single SEAL got a scratch, despite being up against al Qaeda, described by former Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld as ‘the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth.”

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43817



A very well thought out and intelligent piece by Roberts! Don't miss the whole thing, above or via the url!

Steve Franklin
05-05-2011, 06:08 PM
25-Minute blackout during raid on bin Laden compound
May 4, 2011 by legitgov

25-Minute blackout during raid on bin Laden compound --The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events. 04 May 2011 Leon Panetta, director of the CIA, revealed there was a 25 minute blackout during which the live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the US special forces was cut off. A photograph released by the White House appeared to show the President and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.

http://www.legitgov.org/25-Minute-blackout-during-raid-bin-Laden-compound

That look on Hilary's face is a dead giveaway. They were watching a porno flick!

Steve Franklin
05-05-2011, 06:17 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24625

SKEPTICISM: The Agendas Behind the Bin Laden News Event

When the Lie Becomes the Truth...

by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

Global Research, May 4, 2011

The US government’s bin Laden story was so poorly crafted that it did not last 48 hours before being fundamentally altered. Indeed, the new story put out on Tuesday by White House press secretary Jay Carney bears little resemblance to the original Sunday evening story. The fierce firefight did not occur. Osama bin Laden did not hide behind a woman. Indeed, bin Laden, Carney said, “was not armed.”

The firefight story was instantly suspicious as not a single SEAL got a scratch, despite being up against al Qaeda, described by former Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld as ‘the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth.”

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=43817



A very well thought out and intelligent piece by Roberts! Don't miss the whole thing, above or via the url!

Is anyone else here beginning to suspect that someone went to an awful lot of trouble to make it really really obvious that this whole story was created out of whole cloth? What was it Burroughs said, "Wake up the marks"?

Jan Klimkowski
05-05-2011, 06:19 PM
These are some comments from earlier in the thread about those posed photos of US government head honchoes intently watching the Bin Laden execution via SEALCAM.



A very interesting study in facial expressions as they watch a family be murdered in cold blood in their sleep.

I think Hillary is about to hurl. :vomit:

Now we know that this whole live SEALCAM SNUFF MOVIE was just another Lie in this C-movie farce, it begs the question: wtf were these fools watching?

Why does Hillary look like she's about to hurl?

Why is Obama so ashen-faced?

Were they looking at classified data proving that the Ponzi Scheme known as Global Market Capitalism is bankrupt and about to collapse?

An Abu Ghraib or "Gitmo" torture flick?

Or was it simpler?

Was it the realization that they are mere actors, kabuki puppets, whose role is not to lead and determine how the world's affairs play out, but rather to provide diversion and faux comfort for the "useless eaters"?

To read the lines and express the emotions scripted for them by those who hold real power?

Even when the script is dire, the plot is flawed, and a trapdoor straight to hell is placed centre stage.....

Peter Lemkin
05-05-2011, 06:29 PM
Only to add that CIA director stated that for the actual 25 minutes the 'action' took place there was NO LIVE feed to the White House......makes you wonder.....Hey Obama is the Wizard of Oz.....Toto's gonna find you out! Anyway one constructs or deconstructs this farce it is just that - a GRAND FARCE! I wonder WHAT they WERE watching, as apparently [but who to believe!?!] the Intelligence Community and/or the Military cut the video and audio during the real deal...if there even was a real deal...too many wheels of lies within wheels of lies...... Any old which way the Emperor and the Empire have NO CLOTHES!

Steve Franklin
05-05-2011, 06:39 PM
These are some comments from earlier in the thread about those posed photos of US government head honchoes intently watching the Bin Laden execution via SEALCAM.



A very interesting study in facial expressions as they watch a family be murdered in cold blood in their sleep. I think Hillary is about to hurl. :vomit:

Now we know that whole live SEALCAM SNUFF MOVIE was just another Lie in this C-movie farce, it begs the question: wtf were these fools watching?

Why does Hillary look like she's about to hurl?

Why is Obama so ashen-faced?

Were they looking at classified data proving that the Ponzi Scheme known as Global Market Capitalism is bankrupt and about to collapse?

Or was it simpler?

Was it the realization that they are mere actors, kabuki puppets, whose role is not to lead and determine how the world's affairs play out, but rather to provide diversion and faux comfort for the "useless eaters"?

To read the lines and express the emotions scripted for them by those who hold real power?

Even when the script is dire, the plot is flawed, and a trapdoor straight to hell is placed centre stage.....

My original use of the term "kabuki dance" or "kabuki theater" had to do, not with any notion that they were puppets being manipulated, but with the fact that the speech and gestures of the actors were greatly exaggerated, the halls having been large, and there having been no such things as microphones and amplification in the days when it developed. Obama didn't just announce the death of bin laden, he made a production out of it worthy of an ancient Japanese play and just as mythical.

Jan Klimkowski
05-05-2011, 06:43 PM
Steve - I was not using Kabuki in the sense in which you used it.

Meanwhile, here are a couple of quotes from 1984:


The Ministry of Peace concerns itself with war, the Ministry of Truth with lies, the Ministry of Love with torture, and the Ministry of Plenty with starvation.


There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always — do not forget this, Winston — always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

Steve Franklin
05-05-2011, 06:46 PM
Only to add that CIA director stated that for the actual 25 minutes the 'action' took place there was NO LIVE feed to the White House......makes you wonder.....Hey Obama is the Wizard of Oz.....Toto's gonna find you out! Anyway one constructs or deconstructs this farce it is just that - a GRAND FARCE! I wonder WHAT they WERE watching, as apparently [but who to believe!?!] the Intelligence Community and/or the Military cut the video and audio during the real deal...if there even was a real deal...too many wheels of lies within wheels of lies...... Any old which way the Emperor and the Empire have NO CLOTHES!

What interests me is that someone, despite the obvious intent to keep the supposed video secret for, what, 75 years? decided to spill the beans. Could this have something to do with the shakeup at the Pentagram and the CIA? Is there an active faction operating in a manner analogous to the KGB during the final months of the USSR, when it became apparent to them from the events at Chernobyl, that the Soviet Union could not survive in its then current state?

Peter Lemkin
05-05-2011, 07:09 PM
The breaking [or broken] nuz now is the daughter of OBL said [through who is not said nor proven] that, yes, her father was shot on Monday. So there.....one more strange unverified twist. :mexican: I think since the end of WWII, picking up speed with Dallas and almost at light speed with 911 the construction of false events, facts, witnesses, actors in the events, actors for the events, just plain actors, etc., et al. has been picking up speed and import in our lives (sic) - which at this point are synthetic lives. Nothing is real. All is faked and then the faking is faked and spun, twisted and lied about. Anyone trying to peer through all this mass of confusion, smoke, mirrors, lies, deceptions, Potemkin stagesets, are attacked or belittled - usually both. The story of OBL just doesn't add up. If one takes all the official versions and all the [seemingly] verifiable information, it just does NOT ADD UP!!!! i.e. it is in part [or in whole] a phony construct and misdirection. Propaganda and 'magic shows' are not our daily bread now, they are our daily 'reality' = there is no real real; there is no there there. :worship:

"Save the bombardier! I am the bombardier. Then save him, save him!"

Reality [and Truth] have lost out - bigtime!

Steve Franklin
05-05-2011, 07:23 PM
The breaking [or broken] nuz now is the daughter of OBL said [through who is not said nor proven] that, yes, her father was shot on Monday. So there.....one more strange unverified twist. :mexican: I think since the end of WWII, picking up speed with Dallas and almost at light speed with 911 the construction of false events, facts, witnesses, actors in the events, actors for the events, just plain actors, etc., et al. has been picking up speed and import in our lives (sic) - which at this point are synthetic lives. Nothing is real. All is faked and then the faking is faked and spun, twisted and lied about. Anyone trying to peer through all this mass of confusion, smoke, mirrors, lies, deceptions, Potemkin stagesets, are attacked or belittled - usually both. The story of OBL just doesn't add up. If one takes all the official versions and all the [seemingly] verifiable information, it just does NOT ADD UP!!!! i.e. it is in part [or in whole] a phony construct and misdirection. Propaganda and 'magic shows' are not our daily bread now, they are our daily 'reality' = there is no real real; there is no there there. :worship:

"Save the bombardier!" "I am the bombardier." "Then save him, save him!"

I am reminded of Marina Oswald "verifying" that she took the obviously phony photos of Lee Oswald carrying the supposed murder rifle.

Basically, you stick a gun to somebody's head, either literally or figuratively, and ask them if they are going to cooperate or not.

Jan Klimkowski
05-05-2011, 07:37 PM
I'm sure we here at DPF all remember the Heroic Rescue of Jessica Lynch from Torture and Rape by Infidel Towelheads, another SEALCAM Night Vision Lie, spun and respun by Rumsfeld, Bush and Co, until it collapsed as Apple Pie Jess said: "Gee guys - it didn't happen like that...."

But these fools think we have the memory span of a gnat.


The Big Lie Of Jessica Lynch
A $1 Mil Book Deal, Zero Memory Of Any "Rescue" And The Worst Book You'll Read This Year

by Mark Morford

Hey, remember that dramatic CNN footage of that big statue of Saddam Hussein being toppled by U.S. forces in that Baghdad square a few months back, during the "war"? Remember how powerfully symbolic it was supposed to be?

Remember, later, seeing the wide-angle shot on the Internet, the one of all the U.S. tanks surrounding the square and the whole bogus setup of how they staged the event, complete with a big crane and some strong cable and strategically positioned "citizens" cheering their "liberation" as the statue fell, as just off camera, a handful of genuine Iraqis loitered nearby, looking confused and bored?

Remember how you felt then? Like this little black worm had bored into your skin and was crawling around in your small intestine and you had the perpetual urge to go off into the corner and eat pie and slam double scotches and scream at the state of BushCo's nation?

The Jessica Lynch story is just like that, only much, much worse.

These are the things that make you wince and sigh. These are the things that put it all in perspective, make you realize what the Pentagon and the military hawks really value.

These are the things that make you realize, goddammit, here I am working every day and struggling to make ends meet in a BushCo-gutted economy and all I really needed to do all along to make a million bucks is stage some sort of bogus wartime heroics and sell it to a war-numbed American populace for $24.95 in hardback, and, boom, Range Rover City.

Jessica Lynch. You know the one. The sweet, American-pie 19-year-old soldier and kindergarten-teacher wanna-be whose army squad took a wrong turn in Iraq and was, apparently, ambushed.

And some of her comrades were killed and she was taken prisoner, full of stab wounds and bullet holes, and she was whisked off to a ragged Iraqi hospital and held for eight days by vicious Iraqi guards and ostensibly abused, and later supposedly "rescued" in the most daring and macho made-for-TV moment of the war by elite teams of hunky U.S. Army Rangers and U.S. Navy SEALs. Wow.

Except that it never really happened that way. Except that Lynch herself doesn't remember a single thing and all the nurses and doctors and eyewitnesses on the scene say the Iraqi fedayeen guards had fled the day before the "rescue," and there was no danger whatsoever, no resistance of any kind, the U.S. forces could just walk right in, and they knew it.

And the hospital doors were wide open, and the nurses and doctors had gone out of their way to provide decent care for our precious Jessica, considering the circumstances, and doctors even tried to return Lynch to U.S. forces themselves.

And despite U.S. claims, Lynch had no knife wounds or bullet holes at all, just a few broken bones, and the dramatic and violent "rescue" was really just inane and silly and entirely faked and yet America bought it, hook, line and Rumsfeld, because it was on TV.

And now, here we are. Jessica and disgraced N.Y. Times reporter Rick "Oh my God do I need a gig" Bragg just inked a $1 million book deal to tell her nonstory, titled "I'm a Soldier Too: The Jessica Lynch Story," not "Oh My God You Are Such a Sucker for Buying This Book I Mean Wow."

Because this is how we fabricate our history. This is how we spin our patriotism, how we bake our jingoistic cake, the Lynch tale the most apt and definitive myth of the war so far.

Because Jessica's story, much like WMDs and Saddam's nukes and biotoxins and Orange Alerts and our imminently prosperous economy and Jenna Bush's ostensible prowess with a beer bong, does not rely on truths. We do not rely on first-hand reports. We do not rely on anything so piffling and small and dangerous as honesty.

We rely, simply, on PR. We believe the TV images of the bogus "rescue" at the expense of common sense because we are a nation drunk on the idea that the U.S. can do no wrong and TV would never lie.

And goddammit if Hannity and Rush and O'Reilly say it happened like that, it must be true, and damn you America-hating libs for daring to question the integrity of our armed forces when they are out there right now protecting us from, uh, what was it again? Higher gas prices? Israel's scorn? Dick Cheney's pallid sneer? Something like that.

Look, there is no war without spin. There is no war without outright lying to the populace, without trying to coerce a wary nation into supporting our unprovoked savagery by way of Hollywood-style set pieces performed specifically to deflect attention from the brutality and the decapitated children and the still-dying U.S. soldiers and the burning bodies by the side of the road.

This is nothing shocking. This is nothing even remotely unusual or uncommon. The fabric of war consists not of gallant battles fought by hardy soldiers for some noble collective good yay yay go team, but of manufactured tales of valiant brotherhood and purebred heroism designed to make the vile pill slightly less bitter.

War is, of course, vicious and primitive and disgustingly violent and not the slightest bit gallant, and America has rarely been more thuggish in its short history than when we annihilated Afghanistan and Iraq lo these past few years, the world's greatest bloated superpower hammering down on two nearly defenseless, piss-poor nations in the name of, well, petrochemical rights and strategic political positioning. It's not a war, it's a gang beating. Uncle Sam wants you.

And, hence, we need the sugar. We desperately need the sweet, teary-eyed images of flags and salutes and stunning "rescues" to make it all go down smoothly, to suppress the collective recoil, the national gag reflex. After all, who wants to see burning babies and crying mothers and hot screaming death on prime time? Show me Old Glory waving in slo-mo! Ahh, that's better.

We need, in short, pretty 19-year-old memory-impaired soldier girls being rescued by manly SEALs wearing bitchin' night-vision goggles and yelling "Go! Go! Go!" with lots of explosions and helicopters and maybe a cameo by Bruce Willis looking squinty and tough, with the Pentagon cameras rolling and everyone's adrenaline pumping like at a horse race, except for maybe the baffled Iraqi hospital personnel who were calmly taking care of Ms. Lynch when the U.S. storm troopers swooped in and knocked them down.

Of course, this isn't about Jessica herself at all. She has served her country bravely and is probably very sweet and at least partially articulate and is just in it for the quick wad of cash, and what the hell she doesn't remember a damn thing about the rescue anyway, which makes her the perfect one to write a whole book about it, with Bragg along to, ahem, "fill in the blanks." Ain't that America.

And we can just imagine how the Pentagon brass doubtlessly winked at Jessie and said hey sweetie, you go girl, take the book deal, and the movie deal, and the commemorative plates by the Franklin Mint, it would be good for the country if you go along with the ruse, there there now, that's a good little soldier.

Jessica Lynch is but a puppet, a toy, a convenient TV-ready canvass onto which we can project our impotent myths of patriotism and war, spit forth by the BushCo military machine to ease America's pain, to assuage that increasingly nagging fear that we have committed this horrible thing, this irreversible atrocity.

In short, Jessica's myth helps numb the idea that we have removed a pip-squeak, nonthreatening tyrant from power and left behind a reeking miasma of violence and bloodshed and thousands of dead citizens, more rabid anti-U.S. sentiment and mistrust and global instability than Saddam (or Osama) could've ever dreamed.

And little Ms. Lynch, she is America's new doll. She is our little G.I. Jessica, all safe and clean in her homecoming fatigues, her imaginary story ready to grace the nightstands of the happily gullible across America.

Because really, why bother with all that icky messy nonfiction, all that violent unsavory fact, when straight fiction is so much more, you know, patriotic?



http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0905-09.htm

Steve Franklin
05-05-2011, 07:47 PM
I'm sure we here at DPF all remember the Heroic Rescue of Jessica Lynch from Torture and Rape by Infidel Towelheads, another SEALCAM Night Vision Lie, spun and respun by Rumsfeld, Bush and Co, until it collapsed as Apple Pie Jess said: "Gee guys - it didn't happen like that...."

But these fools think we have the memory span of a gnat.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0905-09.htm

Unfortunately, most people do. Remember what Winston Smith did for a living in 1984? Do you think that would have been a believable plot element if people remembered what happened last Thursday? Remember, "We have always been at war with Eastasia."

...

Peter Lemkin
05-05-2011, 07:55 PM
Great plot line for a movie....Jessica Lynch marries OBL as his third wife! [Mohammad Atta is best man; Atta's stripper bride's maid!] Two unrealities unmeet and unlive in non-reality unhappily never-after. :what: Then the snuffing of OBL happens and Jessica dies untrying to save his unlife. Atta is in the snuff squad now.....:what:


Yup, the Lynch-LIE was a whopper!....[TM]; but personally I think the OBL 'legend' tops just about all of them since ....hmmm.......:joystick::popcorn::popworm: LHO lone-nut assassin of JFK - end of story.

Malcolm Pryce
05-05-2011, 09:26 PM
Now we know that whole live SEALCAM SNUFF MOVIE was just another Lie in this C-movie farce, it begs the question: wtf were these fools watching?



Oh that's easy: they were watching The West Wing. The bits where they are all in the 'Situation Room' watching...

Ed Jewett
05-06-2011, 02:31 AM
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/shouldweturnonthelaptops.jpg




In all actuality, they were engaged deeply in the practice of remote viewing.

Magda Hassan
05-06-2011, 03:11 AM
The thing I find so interesting in that photo is what a small insignificant presence Obama makes in that room. Tucked in the back in the corner and all the big important people are around the table and have a closer view of the 'action' what ever it may be.

Ed Jewett
05-06-2011, 03:22 AM
"... Hillary Clinton has claimed that in the now infamous situation room photo, she was covering her mouth to prevent one of her “spring coughs” rather than trying to make the staged photo seem more dramatic. Apparently the first story that they watched the operation in “real time” is falling apart just like most of the rest of the bullshit story. Clinton says she “can’t remember” what they were watching in that room.

But remember, if you don’t take these guys at their word and you question the official story of what happened, you’re an “extremist“...."

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/bin-laden-distraction-updates/

Ed Jewett
05-06-2011, 03:44 AM
“... whether you believe he was dead and iced years ago and strategically used as a sign of unflappable leadership, is irrelevant. The surrounding uproar was theatre of the extravagant, no matter how you slice it.


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/5685054706_258c8dda26_b.jpg

But, theatre was invented for distraction, in culture and in politics. So while all the Osama drama was unfolding, the Treasury Department issued another plea for raising the debt ceiling...

Nomi Prins, former managing director of Goldman Sachs

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/osama-ben-bernanke.html

Ed Jewett
05-06-2011, 04:14 AM
Ghosts of September 11,
By Mike Ruppert

ay 5, 2011, 1400 PST, SEBASTOPOL – I have personally interrogated under aged criminal suspects who could lie better than White House Press Secretary Jay Carney. It has been four days since the P.T. Barnum (“There’s a sucker born every minute”) proclamation of the death of Osama bin Laden (OBL). President Obama’s account of the firefight has had zero credibility from the outset and it continues to fray and wear thin as each day passes.

First, bin Laden was shooting. Then he wasn’t. Now, no pictures are going to be released. Ridiculous arguments on CNN, by House members stating that releasing photos would inflame and invite retaliation, flatly contradict what I suspect every grunt who ever earned a Combat Infantry Badge would say:

“Release the damn pictures. Give us some to hand out to the “indigs”. We got our man and that’s a message to anyone who would mess with us…Hoo Ah!”

However, as with 9-11, in order to fully appreciate the stupidity of the Obama Administration’s ploy it is only necessary to focus on one glaring inconsistency. With our focus on this inconsistency, demand an answer to it and bring down a house of cards that is already falling. This approach is essentially the same path I have taken with the War Game exercises that were being conducted on September 11th. The issue that follows is to focus on what to do with this inconsistency.

This also raises a fair question: Is 9-11 back on the table for me?

The answer is yes and no. Especially when “no” applies to any expectation that a competent, trustworthy court with jurisdiction would act with a budget and full approval of the U.S. Congress and the American people to actually reveal the truth and take action.

It is yes when, as you will hear below, responsible and credible academics and journalists see the direct connection between September 11,2001 and where we are today… and where we are headed as a planet.

This is because it is not possible to accurately understand or respond to Collapse without “seeing” all the criminality that led to it. Moreover, it is not possible to effectively deal with Collapse until the criminal behavior has been identified, addressed, and effectively terminated. Otherwise, the human race is left to confront Collapse as it is now; on an ad hoc basis, without any participation of sincere, honest and focused governmental bodies.

There is a massive awakening-taking place globally. However, the difference between this and what could be accomplished if governments were actively and helpfully involved is… maybe three billion human lives.

Now, back to Osama bin Laden.

Let’s start with what I consider the most-obvious proof that the Obama administration is lying. It comes from a world-class microbiologist who allowed me to use this quote on condition of anonymity. The simple proof of his accuracy is to just ask any microbiologist experienced in DNA sequencing about his statement. There are tens of thousands of them around the world.

Here is what he wrote me:

I am a molecular biologist and I’ve built a lucrative career in human genetics. I have run one of the world’s largest and most productive DNA genotyping facilities and now I am helping to build the global market for clinical whole human genome sequencing for the world’s largest human genome sequencing facility. I have worked with the absolute best genome scientists from the military, academia, medicine, and industry from around the world. I know DNA. And, one thing I know about DNA is that you cannot, repeat CANNOT: take a tissue sample from a shot-in-the-noggin-dead-guy in a north central Pakistan special forces op, extract the DNA, prepare the DNA for assay, test the DNA, curate the raw DNA sequence data, assemble the reads or QC the genotype, compare the tested DNA to a reference, and make a positive identity determination…. all in 12 hours- let alone transport the tissue samples all the places they’d need to have gone in order to get this done.

Some might try to argue that ruggedized, field ready kits could test a DNA sample- which is true if one is attempting to determine the CLASS of a bacteria. It is not true if one is trying to determine the specific identity of an individual. Any way you slice it, the real work would require days, and I find it unlikely (although not impossible) that an aircraft carrier would have a laboratory outfitted for this kind of work… it is not the Starship Enterprise out there.

So, maybe they did get Osama. But there is no fucking way they had any genetic proof of it by the time they dumped the body over the side. What is it that we are not supposed to see with all this distraction? I think the French call it “legerdemain”.

The only things necessary to prove or disprove this statement is to question anyone who is an expert on DNA identification.

Two more examples illustrate the lack of credibility enjoyed by the U.S. government. The first is from Tuesday’s (5-3-2011) World News Desk. The second is from today’s (5-5-2011).

Example 1

White House backtracks on how Osama bin Laden died in US raid — Telegraph

“Claims that the al-Qaeda leader had died while firing an automatic weapon at commandos were withdrawn, with President Barack Obama’s spokesman admitting “he was unarmed”. A dramatic description of bin Laden using his wife as a “human shield” and forcing her to sacrifice her life also proved to be false. The woman was still alive and was taken into custody with several of the terrorist’s children.

In an embarrassing climb-down, Barack Obama’s press secretary, Jay Carney, admitted that the previous version of events — which came mostly from the chief US counter-terrorism adviser, John Brennan — had been put out “with great haste”.

The about-turn left the US open to accusations of a cover-up and led to calls for video footage of the raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, and images of bin Laden’s body to be released to end conspiracy theories.”

Example 2

Even the Pentagon is staying away from the White House circus. Here’s a quote from a DoD publication. The story’s title? “The Bin Laden Information Drought”.

No one is complaining that bin Laden is dead. But every time Washington has to change details about what happened, it damages its credibility on the whole story. And instead of continuing to feed the ravenous reporters clamoring for information, officials are starving them: The Pentagon today cancelled its regular briefing for the second day in a row, even as the White House refers some questions about the bin Laden story to the Defense Department.

Now I am not going to do what we found necessary to do after 9-11, by making a huge (ever-growing) list of the galaxy of inconsistencies available. I am not going to repeat the work of myself and others, like Michel Chossudovsky and Paul Thompson, on the mythological intelligence construct that was the legend of OBL. That is all meticulously documented in “Crossing the Rubicon”.

But as the world continues to ask the obvious questions and the story continues to fray, I note that the indignant refusal by Barack Obama to produce a photo is really sending off alarms. In the past, it was an essential foreign requirement to produce death photos of Josef Goebbels, Herman Goering and Saddam Hussein. No one thought that unseemly. Granted their bodies were all intact, but I should probably note that the credibility of the United States Government was – like the dollar – more intact then.

I saw a “crawl” on CNN stating that George W. Bush declined to appear at Ground Zero with President Obama for a planned extravaganza today. Even W has got enough sense to avoid that black hole. And today we see that apparently the plans for a PR extravaganza were quashed by someone telling the President to “Shut the f*** up” and keep it simple. Obama laid a wreath, shut his mouth and got the Hell out of Dodge.

The more Barack Obama beats the 9-11 drum, the more he is going to invite a bitch slap from people and even governments around the world who understand that the 9-11 story has been a lie since before the attacks occurred.

The following interview, which I gave to a German radio station catering to intellectuals and academics, about a week before the announcement of OBL’s death, is real evidence that much of the world is waiting to pounce on 9-11 anyway, especially as the rubble threatens to bury us.

You see people will accept lies if their lives get better. As their lives get worse, they will inevitably ask questions. And as their lives disintegrate, they will start looking for both answers and suspects. That was and is the swimming pool full of gasoline that Barack Obama is lighting matches in.

If the United States of America does not immediately announce a massive drawdown in Afghanistan, the world will keep asking questions about OBL because our lives will be getting worse, not better, by the day. And every time Mr. Obama opens his mouth about 9-11, he pours more gasoline into the pool and asks for another box of matches.

It was not my choice. Barack Obama has placed 9-11 back on the table again. Mainstream media, of course, can’t say Jack Diddly about this theater of the absurd, even though they’ve been cornered into asking a few pseudo-hardball questions. They are, after all, criminally culpable for the endorsement and concealment of something they damn well knew was a lie, murder, and high treason ten years ago.

The German radio interview which follows was recorded approximately a week before Barack Obama announced the killing of OBL. Within a few days, we will be bringing you an interview with Radio New Zealand that adds more to the picture.

WATCH INTERVIEW ON YOU TUBE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KGfq_X3dVQ&feature=player_embedded

http://carolynbaker.net/2011/05/05/ghosts-of-september-11-by-mike-ruppert/

Ed Jewett
05-06-2011, 04:38 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Goldstein

Peter Lemkin
05-06-2011, 05:23 AM
Another great piece, above, from Ruppert. As I stated way back at the beginning of the thread, while it is not my field, I do have a background sufficient to read the technical literature in the field, and did some searches on the internet about how fast a DNA 'match' could be done...and came up with 3-4 days the usual and they usually are needed to be done ASAP. So, even in an emergency situation (sic), maybe one could stay up all night, have a dedicated team with all ready - and cut it down to half (1.5 -2 days)....but they 'did it' in less than 0.5 days! So, the whole story is bogus as a wooden nickel; as one can see from all the other parts of the 'story' that they had to change and more coming, no doubt. Its the same kind of scientific [let alone just plain] lies we were told about how the WTC collapsed; why no interceptors were able to engage the errant aircraft, why no 'Muslims' were on the aircraft manifests nor in the DNA samples of pieces of flesh found, the anthrax attacks out of Ft. Deitrich not OBL's cave; Atta's love of cocaine, money from the ISI, sexy strippers, alcohol, and had many connections to US intel.....and one could go on....Pentagong, Let's Roll Flight....ad nauseum. Well the end of the story is as big a LIE as the beginning was with all the exercises that day and even one simulating an attack on the Pentagon and the WTC prior. They really take us for fools and if the MSM is any litmus test, most of the Sheeple are totally taken in - at best totally confused.

Since the live feed was shut off [now its official - whatever that means in a Government of lies] :loco: during the firefight attack on the compound that wasn't a firefight it seems, just an attack - then what were they all watching?! A time delayed version that was changed? An invented version scripted before? Nothing but a black screen? Some birds on the White House lawn out the window? This would all be funny if they weren't using this constant lie line as the main theme for everything the Empire does now - from saving the rich and abandoning the poor - to invading oil-rich nations and ignoring others, and worse. :hitler:

We've all become 'used' to these kinds of outrageous lies - even those of us who see them clearly. What is needed now [and for such a long time] is some righteous anger / outrage turned into action to expose it to the Sheeple. The end is so very very near on so many fronts. Our 'leaders' are like the lead lemmings, leading the rest of the pack to and over the edge or into the sea. We, as humans, are right on that edge and the Americans and Brits sadly leading the way, IMHO.

As Pogo famously said, "We have met the enemy; and the enemy is us!"

Peter Lemkin
05-06-2011, 06:56 AM
CNN: “Widely Distributed Death Photo of Osama Bin Laden is Fake”
3rd May 2011

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/03/bin.laden.fake.photo/

(CNN) — A graphic image of what was reported to be Osama bin Laden’s bloodied face, which went viral on the Internet and was plastered on the front page of newspapers around the world, is a fake.

The lower part of the photograph, which shows his partially opened mouth and graying beard, is almost identical to another image of bin Laden published years ago. The upper half shows his wounds in detail greater than that of the rest of the photo and there are unusual and abrupt shifts in the coloration of his skin.

A photographer consulted by CNN said the gruesome photograph is most definitely not real.

“I have seen a great number of poorly Photoshopped images in my time as a photographer and I can tell by the pixels that it is a fake,” said Kenna Lindsay, a New York-based photographer who works with composite images.

The Guardian newspaper in Britain reported the picture is actually a combination of two photographs: a bloodied corpse and a real image of bin Laden that was taken in 1998 and used by the Reuters news agency.

The doctored image blanketed the Internet in the hours after bin Laden’s death and was picked up by news groups far and wide, in places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Senegal and Iraq.

Meanwhile, U.S. officials are weighing whether to release an actual image of bin Laden’s corpse. A photograph could help to convince doubters about his death, but it also could inflame passions against the United States.

“I’ll be candid that there are sensitivities here in terms of the appropriateness of releasing photographs of Osama bin Laden in the aftermath of this firefight,” White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters Tuesday. “We’re making an evaluation about the need to do that.”

A senior government official involved in the discussions said a photo release could come as early as Tuesday.

A second government official familiar with intelligence matters said deliberations are leaning toward a release, but emphasized that the decision “isn’t unanimous and everyone has understandable hesitation.”
----------------------------------
This article is a few days old now. I believe the government has decided [probably from the beginning] to do with any photos what they said they did with the body...deep six them....[you'll never see 'em'] and the truth shall not be known!

Mark Ludwig
05-06-2011, 08:38 AM
This photo from another site is closer.

Reportedly given to this person from a security company here in australia...

Haven't seen this anywhere else.

***WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT****

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/toxiemite/IMG_2763.png

Magda Hassan
05-06-2011, 08:51 AM
Looks like a trophy and the boys do traditionally wear white tshirts. Understand why the US would be reluctant to show it to the Muslim world. Not much difference between this and Pearl.
Edit: What I thought was white tshirt is latex gloves lol. Different perspective.

Magda Hassan
05-06-2011, 08:58 AM
Translated to English by Sultan Hijazi at the TX Desk

ISLAMABAD: Former Pakistan Chief of Army Staff General (R) Mirza Aslam Baig, Former Pakistan Navy Chief Admiral (R) Iftikhar Sirohey, Air Chief Marshal (R) Kaleem Saadat and Lt. Gen. (R) Hamid Gul of the ISI have said there exist many suspicions and doubts against the alleged operation against "Osama bin Laden". The former military chiefs suggested Osama bin Laden was killed elsewhere and the US had staged a drama in an attempt to defame Pakistan and show the world that Osama bin Laden was allegedly in Pakistan.

The operation at Abbottabad is a false-flag which has become a question mark. The real facts will surface soon, America has made this purported "recent killing of Osama bin Laden" as an imperative to return from Afghanistan. A dead bin Laden will prove to be a bigger threat to the America.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Gilani should have protested against the terrestrial and aerial violation of Pakistan but they are themselves cheering the actions of the US administration.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PdRK0ME1YzM/TcJzDUVYjWI/AAAAAAAAAbg/QYCgU2v5NAU/s1600/ma.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PdRK0ME1YzM/TcJzDUVYjWI/AAAAAAAAAbg/QYCgU2v5NAU/s1600/ma.JPG)
Pakistan's Ex-Chief of Army Staff General (R) Mirza Aslam Baig

The way in which the US conducted the operation at Abbottabad has left behind many doubts and suspicion. I feel Osama bin Laden has been killed in Afghanistan and the US staged a drama in Abbottabad to malign the country. It is very unfortunate that Pakistan's leadership did not react to and protest against the terrestrial and aerial violation of Pakistan's sovereignty, they should be ashamed of themselves. Our President and Prime Minister are cheering to the US administration.

The US staged the drama at Abbottabad to isolate Pakistan and try to get access to its nuclear installations. It is true that the US has technology and equipment which completely jammed the radars and communication systems in Pakistan. America has resorted to this drama to ease the load of problems on itself and Obama has started his re-election campaign on the basis of this operation. However, the killing of one Osama bin Laden will not influence or change the dynamics of the war in Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden is a philosophy and ideology for his followers, not merely an individual. Obama did what Bush could not, despite this, America's problems will not lessen. It will have to leave. Only one-sided "facts" are coming out about the alleged operation against "Osama bin Laden", the real facts are yet to unfold.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hzPFWBlbXWY/TcJ5N8LrIEI/AAAAAAAAAbk/WhpoyEt4hUA/s1600/is.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hzPFWBlbXWY/TcJ5N8LrIEI/AAAAAAAAAbk/WhpoyEt4hUA/s1600/is.JPG)
Pakistan's Ex-Chief of Navy Staff Admiral (R) Iftikhar A. Sirohey

There is still a lot of confusion regarding the Abbottabad operation, the real facts will unfold themselves in the coming days. The real situation will be contradictory to the false-flag operation which America has carried out. The test of investigative journalists around the world has just begun. It is surprising that Osama bin Laden was allegedly residing at Abbottabad since the past 8 months and "no one else had knowledge of this" (according to America). My mind cannot accept the American perspective, the truth is something else. If we are to believe America's "truth", they should have shown the body of Osama bin Laden and shared the facts and evidence with the world' but the picture released is Osama bin Laden is about 20 years old when his beard used to be black, whereas Osama was aging at that time and his beard had started to whiten.

The modern equipment which America has can jam communication systems and radar installatins of any country. Pakistan has no technology to counter this. Myths and legends are floating around Pakistani media regarding the alleged "recent death" of Osama bin Laden. The facts are yet to surface. The purpose of this false-flag operation was to isolate and malign Pakistan. It is not possible that Pakistan's security agencies would not have noticed Osama's presence in Abbottabad if he was present here. Obama has staged this drama to campaign for his re-elections so that his popularity could skyrocket. America has unleashed 14,000 CIA agents (operatives and splinter cell miscreants) into Pakistan. The recent operation looks like it was planned in advance.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VGJQl-vVvJ8/TcJ83NGx8TI/AAAAAAAAAbo/Yi4L_Kxn-bU/s1600/ks.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VGJQl-vVvJ8/TcJ83NGx8TI/AAAAAAAAAbo/Yi4L_Kxn-bU/s1600/ks.JPG)
Pakistan's ex-Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal (R) Kaleem Saadat

America can stop the communication and radar systems of any country through electronic warfare. Pakistan has no alternative system to it. I cannot believe that Osama bin Laden was staying at Abbottabad for the past 8 years, my mind does not accept this. Whatever is being inferred from this is based on assumptions and only one side of the picture is being shown. Osama bin Laden's alleged picture released after the incident looks fake and Photoshopped. Many questions are still following regarding the operation. It seems America did the operation in Abbottabad to pressurize Pakistan. The event is not as it seems and being portrayed, the real facts will be something else. America can use this operation as an imperative to leave Afghanistan. The whole situation will be clear when proper authentic facts will emerge within a few days.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SsTINw2Gef8/TcJ-xOeO1hI/AAAAAAAAAbs/N2RwpJVhIRg/s1600/hg.JPG (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SsTINw2Gef8/TcJ-xOeO1hI/AAAAAAAAAbs/N2RwpJVhIRg/s1600/hg.JPG)
Pakistan's ex-Director General of the ISI, Lt. Gen. (R) Hamid Gul

A dead Osama bin Laden will prove to be more dangerous for America. The false-flag operation and drama staged by the US at Abbottabad was staged only for Obama's re-election campaign. The US wants to hide its blunders and gain popularity by using the name of Osama bin Laden. America's problems will increase manifold after Osama's departure. Al Qaeda had announced war against Pakistan, their target was America all along. Al Qaeda has left Pakistan but the facts behind the drama which America staged in a hurry cannot be kept secret for long.

I do not know whether the US had taken our government into confidence before the Abbottabad operation but the apparent impression left by the American President's speech suggests Pakistan was by-passed on information. Something truly is fishy, considering the fact that America claims to have buried Osama's body in the sea and is not sharing evidence.

The one-sided "information" being shared with the media and the world at large is an attempt to malign and corner Pakistan. The rift between the CIA and ISI shows America did not deem it necessary to inform Pakistan about the Abbottabad operation.

America has made a huge mistake and the very arrogance with which America prides on itself will drown it. The real facts of the drama staged by the US will soon unfold and the conspiracy against Pakistan by the US will also fail.
Translated to English by Sultan Hijazi at the TX Desk


Read more: Pakistan: Former military chiefs say US operation was a drama and pretext for new war ~ Terminal X (http://www.terminalx.org/2011/05/pakistan-former-military-chiefs-say-us.html#ixzz1Lczknmcs) http://www.terminalx.org/2011/05/pakistan-former-military-chiefs-say-us.html#ixzz1Lczknmcs
http://dailyausaf.com/news/id/54603/



Read more: Pakistan: Former military chiefs say US operation was a drama and pretext for new war ~ Terminal X (http://www.terminalx.org/2011/05/pakistan-former-military-chiefs-say-us.html#ixzz1Lcz6enOp) http://www.terminalx.org/2011/05/pakistan-former-military-chiefs-say-us.html#ixzz1Lcz6enOp

Magda Hassan
05-06-2011, 09:00 AM
http://www.terminalx.org/search/label/intelligence#axzz1Lcwm4LFY
Four western diplomats, including Britons and an American, were caught hiking in the prohibited surroundings of the restricted Kahuta atomic plant.

Interior ministry sources while quoting an intelligence report said that they were taking photographs of the area and carrying electronic gadgets including cameras and a laptop.

These sources said that they were intercepted, questioned and later escorted back to Islamabad by the Pakistan security officials with the clear warning that they were crossing the red-line. Their cameras were confiscated; however, they were not formally arrested or thoroughly probed after they proved their diplomatic status.

Interior Secretary Chaudhry Qamar Zaman, who is presently abroad, could not be approached. However, his Additional Secretary Asif Nawaz, who is currently looking after the ministry as its acting secretary, when approached was unsure if he saw such a report or not.

“Frankly I don’t recollect it. I might have disposed it in routine as fresh receipts are normally marked down and to the concerned agencies for necessary action,” he said. The FO spokespersons despite repeated efforts was not available for her response on the matter.

According to an informed interior ministry source, the ministry not only received the information from the Punjab home department but the ISI is also aware of it.

The UK High Commission spokesperson when contacted responded, “This was a recreational hiking trip in the hills south of Murree. The group cooperated fully with the authorities.” The UK HC though did not explain any further but a diplomatic source explained that out of three of the UK High Commission officials identified in the report, only one is a regular member of the mission.

According to the official report, four foreigners who were found in the forest area around Kahuta Atomic Plant on May 1 and intercepted in the afternoon included one US and three UK diplomats/officials. They include Ms Kilipna (or Kalitna) Merethy of the US Embassy while Mr Granyeer John Scort, Ms Exprece and Ms Angela Hyte were shown by the intelligence report as UK Embassy officials. Scort and Exprece were identified as having been associated with the International Committee of Red Cross (ICRC) wing of the embassy.

However, US embassy spokesperson Alberto Rodriguez when approached emailed to The News the following response: “A female American diplomat was hiking in the Murree area on Sunday, May 1. That person was accompanied by three other persons of British, Canadian and New Zealand nationalities. While hiking, the group was stopped and questioned by the police. They were stopped, we understand, because the caretaker of a local cell or radio tower was asked by the police to report anyone unfamiliar in the area. The US diplomat was asked for identification and complied with the request of the police officer to show her camera to him. The police official looked at the digital photos on the camera and subsequently returned the camera without deleting any pictures. The group was informed that they were hiking in a restricted area and were subsequently escorted to the outskirts of Islamabad. The group saw no signs or markers indicating that the area was restricted. The American diplomat fully complied with the appropriate travel procedures at the embassy. The group comprised various nationalities. The group was in Murree, as the police can attest to, not in Kahuta or near an atomic power plant. I urge you to go back to your source and verify the information that was provided to you, as I believe there are errors in fact that would put into question whatever other information you have received. I am sure with your contacts, you can easily verify everything I have said with the local police in the area.”

However, the Special Branch Punjab report received by the Interior Ministry from the Punjab Home Department say: “On 01-05-2011 at about 1240 hours, the field staff of Special Branch, Punjab, came to know about the presence of few foreigners in the forest area of Punj Pir, PS (police station) Kahuta taking photographs of the area. Kahuta Atomic Plant is visible from this area. They were also found carrying electronic gadgets including laptops. The matter was immediately brought in to the notice of Federal Intelligence Agency who also reached there and took the custody of the foreigners.” The report also contained the names of four foreigners as reflected earlier and identified as one American and three British.

Quoting the ISI report, the interior ministry source said that according to the ISI these four foreigners had gone there in a black Land Cruiser registration no Islamabad NS 857. They were intercepted initially by police around the restricted area of Kahuta atomic plant. When questioned, these foreigners were reported to have claimed that they were there for sightseeing.

Having unsatisfied with their response, the police is said to have called the security officials of the Special Planning Division, who questioned them, verified their identities and escorted them back to Islamabad only after a clear warning that they were found in the no-go area. Two of their cameras with which they had taken the photographs of the sensitive area were confiscated.

Although Pakistan has now innumerable nuclear sites, Kahuta Atomic Plant for being the first atomic site developed is globally recognised as one of the major nuke sites of Pakistan. There has been repeated efforts made by the western, American and Indian intelligence operators to spy on the Kahuta Atomic Plant but as yet not only this particular nuclear site but each and every nuclear installation of the country has been remained inaccessible and fully secure.

Only a couple of years back, some members of the US private company - DynCorp - reportedly containing CIA’s under cover operators were found involved in spying and several of them were disengaged from the places like Sihala Police College where they were apparently imparting training of police officials but were alleged to have been spying on Kahuta Nuclear facility.

The Pakistani authorities noted suspected activities of certain members of DynCorp, which under a contractual obligation between Pakistan and the US, as was agreed during Musharraf’s regime, was engaged in law enforcement training, security matters and air aviation cooperation here.

Some of the intelligence agencies including the ISI and IB had credible reports about the involvement of certain members of DynCorp in spying business. An intelligence agency had reported to the government in 2009 that three Americans alongwith a Pakistani had tried to trespass into restricted area of Kahuta Power Plant but the official security agency deployed at the check post got alerted and intercepted them when they crossed the check post and entered restricted area.

The Pakistani accompanying these Americans was a retired assistant director of the FIA, who while introducing himself as FIA officer had managed to free the Americans and returned. Through this trespassing, according to the official report, the Americans had tried to check the security arrangement for Kahuta Research Laboratories.

That very incident had played a vital role in moving out DynCorp men from Sihala Police college facility where they were allowed to train the police officials but were found in spying the country’s nuclear facility.


The News

Read more: Terminal X: intelligence (http://www.terminalx.org/search/label/intelligence#ixzz1Ld0DLBKS) http://www.terminalx.org/search/label/intelligence#ixzz1Ld0DLBKS

Magda Hassan
05-06-2011, 09:09 AM
Sultan Hijazi | TX Desk


According to security officials, three foreigners have been arrested from Naryan area at Abbottabad near the alleged compound of "Osama bin Laden" that was attacked by US SEALs earlier on May 1, 2011.


Sources reveal that the foreigners are of Arab origin and according to preliminary investigations, they reveal links with the British secret service MI6. One of them is reported to speak a little Urdu, the remaining two do not understand the language at all.


However, the investigations are still underway and the conclusive facts will be established within a few days. The arrested suspects were shifted to an undisclosed destination after locals noticed their suspicious activity near the compound.






Related: MI6 financing terror attacks in Pakistan (http://www.terminalx.org/2011/05/uks-mi6-financing-terror-attacks-in.html#axzz1K2AS4njI)
http://www.terminalx.org/2011/05/report-three-foreigners-arrested-from.html#axzz1Lcwm4LFY
Read more: Terminal X: intelligence (http://www.terminalx.org/search/label/intelligence#ixzz1Ld0fgsBD) http://www.terminalx.org/search/label/intelligence#ixzz1Ld0fgsBD

Peter Lemkin
05-06-2011, 09:40 AM
Something is 'cooking'..and at first look it seems to me that the USG is thinking of moving into Pakistan, as they have in Afghanistan...either with [or without] Pakistani cooperation.

Magda Hassan
05-06-2011, 10:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5CS_VEzmks&feature=relmfu
None of the men look like OBL. Presumably he was on the USS Muslim Burials at Sea by then. Filmed by Pakistanis after the US had left about 1 hour after the deaths.

Jack White
05-06-2011, 01:00 PM
...

Magda Hassan
05-06-2011, 01:56 PM
If what the daughter says is true there will be no photos of the summary execution of OBL by the trained seals as this would be a war crime.

BEIRUT: Osama bin Laden was killed at close range after he had been captured alive by U.S. commandos, one of the al-Qaeda leader’s daughters told investigators, reported a pan-Arab newspaper Thursday.

Ash-Sharq Al-Awsat newspaper said Saffia, bin Laden’s daughter who is believed to be 12 years old, told Pakistani security intelligence while under interrogation that she had witnessed the demise of her father at the hands of U.S. Navy Seals at a compound near the Pakistani capital Islamabad.

President Barack Obama announced Monday that the al-Qaeda leader had been tracked down and killed by U.S. Special Forces in the Pakistan city of Abbottabad Sunday.

Saffia, who was one of several of bin Laden’s family members to survive the May 2 operation, said her father's killing had taken place on the ground floor of the complex, the paper said.
"She saw the Americans capture her father alive, then they shot him at point-blank range in a room at the ground floor," Ash-Sharq Al-Awsat said. "Bin Laden's [body] was dragged toward a helicopter hovering over the compound," it said.

The newspaper said Pakistani authorities had also arrested a woman among the survivors of the commando operation who claimed to be one of bin Laden’s wives.

Speaking to investigators, the woman who identified herself as Amal Ahmad Abul-Fateh, said she had passed out when U.S. forces stormed the compound.

Abul-Fateh, who was wounded in the commando operation, told Pakistani authorities that she was a Yemeni national, the newspaper added.

Ash-Sharq Al-Awsat quoted Pakistani authorities as saying that two other of bin Laden's daughters – Aman, 22 and Mariam, 26 – had been slightly wounded during the 40-minute operation that killed the United States’ most-wanted man.
After medical treatment, the two women were taken to a “secure location,” the daily added.

Ash-Sharq Al-Awsat said Pakistani authorities were facing legal problems in indentifying survivors of bin Laden’s family because they do not have any papers on them, except for bin Laden’s wife, who was carrying a passport issued by the Yemeni government.

It said the Pakistani government announced it would deport bin Laden’s family members to their countries of origin. A Pakistani official, however, said that this measure would be difficult to implement given that the family members do not have any travel documents.




Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/2011/May-05/Daughter-says-bin-Laden-captured-alive-then-killed-report.ashx#ixzz1LeCI9iLW
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)

Peter Lemkin
05-06-2011, 02:53 PM
If what the daughter says is true there will be no photos of the summary execution of OBL by the trained seals as this would be a war crime.

BEIRUT: Osama bin Laden was killed at close range after he had been captured alive by U.S. commandos, one of the al-Qaeda leader’s daughters told investigators, reported a pan-Arab newspaper Thursday.

Ash-Sharq Al-Awsat newspaper said Saffia, bin Laden’s daughter who is believed to be 12 years old, told Pakistani security intelligence while under interrogation that she had witnessed the demise of her father at the hands of U.S. Navy Seals at a compound near the Pakistani capital Islamabad.

President Barack Obama announced Monday that the al-Qaeda leader had been tracked down and killed by U.S. Special Forces in the Pakistan city of Abbottabad Sunday.

Saffia, who was one of several of bin Laden’s family members to survive the May 2 operation, said her father's killing had taken place on the ground floor of the complex, the paper said.
"She saw the Americans capture her father alive, then they shot him at point-blank range in a room at the ground floor," Ash-Sharq Al-Awsat said. "Bin Laden's [body] was dragged toward a helicopter hovering over the compound," it said.

The newspaper said Pakistani authorities had also arrested a woman among the survivors of the commando operation who claimed to be one of bin Laden’s wives.

Speaking to investigators, the woman who identified herself as Amal Ahmad Abul-Fateh, said she had passed out when U.S. forces stormed the compound.

Abul-Fateh, who was wounded in the commando operation, told Pakistani authorities that she was a Yemeni national, the newspaper added.

Ash-Sharq Al-Awsat quoted Pakistani authorities as saying that two other of bin Laden's daughters – Aman, 22 and Mariam, 26 – had been slightly wounded during the 40-minute operation that killed the United States’ most-wanted man.
After medical treatment, the two women were taken to a “secure location,” the daily added.

Ash-Sharq Al-Awsat said Pakistani authorities were facing legal problems in indentifying survivors of bin Laden’s family because they do not have any papers on them, except for bin Laden’s wife, who was carrying a passport issued by the Yemeni government.

It said the Pakistani government announced it would deport bin Laden’s family members to their countries of origin. A Pakistani official, however, said that this measure would be difficult to implement given that the family members do not have any travel documents.




Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/2011/May-05/Daughter-says-bin-Laden-captured-alive-then-killed-report.ashx#ixzz1LeCI9iLW
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)



It gets 'better' and 'better'....but NOT for the USG. If true, then this was a cold-blooded murder of a captured, subdued, human prisoner who could not resist....decidedly a war crime [even if one could make the false assertion of an ongoing 'war' or other such]. It is hard to hold the USG in anything but utter contempt, as most do for the 3rd Reich, which we seem well on the path of emulating......:mexican::spy: If this is all so, I hope against hope the ICC issues warrants for arrests for war crimes.

Albert Doyle
05-06-2011, 03:35 PM
The new American standard is naked parading of heroes like Bradley Manning and Mossad commando assassination of unarmed targets for football crowd cheering.

Peter Lemkin
05-06-2011, 05:16 PM
This is like a bad soap-opera. It now turns out that OBL recorded a new video statement [I]one week before his murder..and it is soon to be released.

It has to be good....buy popcorn and anti-anxiety drugs [or reality altering ones - personal choice, here] for the 'showing'.... :shutup::dancingman:

Helen Reyes
05-06-2011, 05:30 PM
CNN: “Widely Distributed Death Photo of Osama Bin Laden is Fake”
3rd May 2011

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/03/bin.laden.fake.photo/

...

“I have seen a great number of poorly Photoshopped images in my time as a photographer and I can tell by the pixels that it is a fake,” said Kenna Lindsay, a New York-based photographer who works with composite images.

...


This is a paraphrase of a 4chan meme. It is too close to be accidental or coincidental, it's a shout-out to Anonymous. The actual phrase, I don't remember verbatim, is more like "I have seen a great number of poorly photoshopped images in my time, and I can tell by the pixels that this is a fake." This meme was current years ago, probably sometime between 2003 and 2007. It could be from Something Awful or Encyclopedia Dramatica originally, but it was picked up and propagated on 4chan, although I don't know the backstory or full significance or what it referenced specifically and originally.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/this-looks-shopped

James H. Fetzer
05-06-2011, 05:40 PM
Five easy (but very informative) pieces about 9/11 as "an inside job":

(1) Mossad ran 9/11 Arab "hijacker" terrorist operation

By Wayne Madsen

http://www.opinion-maker.org/2011/01/british-intelligence-reports/

Mossad ran 9/11 Arab "hijacker" operation: "British intelligence reported in February 2002 that the Israeli Mossad ran the Arab hijacker cells that were later blamed by the U.S. government's 9/11 Commission for carrying out the aerial attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. WMR has received details of the British intelligence report which was suppressed by the government of then-Prime Minister Tony Blair."

(2) WATCH OUT FOR THE BOGYMAN - by Jim Marrs May 05, 2011

http://www.jerrypippin.com/watch_out_for_the_bogyman.htm

"The surest way to control a free people is to initiate a war. But to have a war requires an enemy. In recent years, America?s great enemy has been Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network, but this has turned out to be a Bogyman -- a false and ethereal image to provoke fear. 'There are people within the US intelligence community who doubt that the hijacker list from 9/11 has much truth in it,' said one source."

(3) Obama's "Big Lie": White House Propaganda and the ?Death? of Osama bin Laden

by Larry Chin (May 2, 2011)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24594

"Obama has pronounced Osama bin Laden to be dead. But according to historical facts and extensive documented evidence, he may never have been alive in the way that the official propaganda has portrayed him. Or alive at all. Osama bin Laden has been a CIA asset in reality, and a propaganda boogeyman in official fiction."

(4) Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
May 4, 2011

http://www.infowars.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag/

"Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a 'conspiracy theorist'. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT."

(5) Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?

by David Ray Griffin (October 9, 2009)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15601

"Obama has appealed to these intelligence estimates, which have invariably claimed that bin Laden is hiding in Pakistan, somewhere along its border. This claim has been used to justify the extension of US military activity into Pakistan, with the result that people now speak of the "AfPak war." [But if they] do not even know whether bin Laden is alive, they certainly cannot know where he is and what he is thinking."

Jan Klimkowski
05-06-2011, 06:07 PM
This photo from another site is closer.

Reportedly given to this person from a security company here in australia...

Haven't seen this anywhere else.

***WARNING GRAPHIC CONTENT****

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e357/toxiemite/IMG_2763.png

Mark - thank you for posting this image, and thank you for including the graphic content warning.

It is important that all such evidence is considered and analyzed.

My immediate reaction to this image is to call BULLSHIT.

And I call BS for the following reasons:

i) I would be most surprized if Osama's beard was still jet black;

ii) the degree of sharp focus appears to vary across the image;

iii) to the naked eye, various elements of the face, and supposed foreground/background planes, appear wrong.

Jan Klimkowski
05-06-2011, 06:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5CS_VEzmks&feature=relmfu
None of the men look like OBL. Presumably he was on the USS Muslim Burials at Sea by then. Filmed by Pakistanis after the US had left about 1 hour after the deaths.

Magda - if the images are genuine, that's the best what-happened-inside-the-house evidence that I've seen.

I'm finding it very hard to keep up with the endlessly changing Official Story, but if I'm understanding it correctly, the current version says there was a firefight on entry and then no meaningful firefight after. The images in that video would therefore suggest a slaughter.

So, perhaps the real reason that the White House is now making itself look truly stupid by asserting that we should forget the photos of the Head Honchoes watching SEALCAM SNUFF OSAMA LIVE, and actually Hillary had a cough, and Obama had indigestion, and we can't remember what they were watching but it wasn't realtime video, is because what happened inside that "compound" was a SLAUGHTER straight out of a PECKINPAH movie.

Only real flesh and real blood.

In which case, it was both WAR CRIME and CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.

And even Obama's "look the other way" lawyers have advised that everyone in that room could end up before a War Crimes Tribunal.

Theoretically, of course.

Since Amerika believes international war crime tribunals are only for non-Americans and refuses to recognize them.

Keith Millea
05-06-2011, 07:22 PM
Photos from around OBL compound can be found at the link below.

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/obl-kill/obl-kill.htm

There are two other Cryptome links.Please be aware that the first one has the unaltered photos of those killed in the raid.

Jan Klimkowski
05-06-2011, 07:47 PM
Photos from around OBL compound can be found at the link below.

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/obl-kill/obl-kill.htm

There are two other Cryptome links.Please be aware that the first one has the unaltered photos of those killed in the raid.

Keith - thank you posting, and thank you for the graphic content warning.

I viewed the images of four bloodied corpses in white robes, with no weapons visible.

I then viewed the other links, and went back to the kill shot images, and the post was gone...

I would entirely understand why the White House doesn't want the world to see such images....

James H. Fetzer
05-06-2011, 09:24 PM
That so many appear to be taken in on the DPF simply astounds me! This is unreal.


Ghosts of September 11,
By Mike Ruppert

May 5, 2011, 1400 PST, SEBASTOPOL – I have personally interrogated under aged criminal suspects who could lie better than White House Press Secretary Jay Carney. It has been four days since the P.T. Barnum (“There’s a sucker born every minute”) proclamation of the death of Osama bin Laden (OBL). President Obama’s account of the firefight has had zero credibility from the outset and it continues to fray and wear thin as each day passes.

First, bin Laden was shooting. Then he wasn’t. Now, no pictures are going to be released. Ridiculous arguments on CNN, by House members stating that releasing photos would inflame and invite retaliation, flatly contradict what I suspect every grunt who ever earned a Combat Infantry Badge would say:

“Release the damn pictures. Give us some to hand out to the “indigs”. We got our man and that’s a message to anyone who would mess with us…Hoo Ah!”

However, as with 9-11, in order to fully appreciate the stupidity of the Obama Administration’s ploy it is only necessary to focus on one glaring inconsistency. With our focus on this inconsistency, demand an answer to it and bring down a house of cards that is already falling. This approach is essentially the same path I have taken with the War Game exercises that were being conducted on September 11th. The issue that follows is to focus on what to do with this inconsistency.

This also raises a fair question: Is 9-11 back on the table for me?

The answer is yes and no. Especially when “no” applies to any expectation that a competent, trustworthy court with jurisdiction would act with a budget and full approval of the U.S. Congress and the American people to actually reveal the truth and take action.

It is yes when, as you will hear below, responsible and credible academics and journalists see the direct connection between September 11,2001 and where we are today… and where we are headed as a planet.

This is because it is not possible to accurately understand or respond to Collapse without “seeing” all the criminality that led to it. Moreover, it is not possible to effectively deal with Collapse until the criminal behavior has been identified, addressed, and effectively terminated. Otherwise, the human race is left to confront Collapse as it is now; on an ad hoc basis, without any participation of sincere, honest and focused governmental bodies.

There is a massive awakening-taking place globally. However, the difference between this and what could be accomplished if governments were actively and helpfully involved is… maybe three billion human lives.

Now, back to Osama bin Laden.

Let’s start with what I consider the most-obvious proof that the Obama administration is lying. It comes from a world-class microbiologist who allowed me to use this quote on condition of anonymity. The simple proof of his accuracy is to just ask any microbiologist experienced in DNA sequencing about his statement. There are tens of thousands of them around the world.

Here is what he wrote me:

I am a molecular biologist and I’ve built a lucrative career in human genetics. I have run one of the world’s largest and most productive DNA genotyping facilities and now I am helping to build the global market for clinical whole human genome sequencing for the world’s largest human genome sequencing facility. I have worked with the absolute best genome scientists from the military, academia, medicine, and industry from around the world. I know DNA. And, one thing I know about DNA is that you cannot, repeat CANNOT: take a tissue sample from a shot-in-the-noggin-dead-guy in a north central Pakistan special forces op, extract the DNA, prepare the DNA for assay, test the DNA, curate the raw DNA sequence data, assemble the reads or QC the genotype, compare the tested DNA to a reference, and make a positive identity determination…. all in 12 hours- let alone transport the tissue samples all the places they’d need to have gone in order to get this done.

Some might try to argue that ruggedized, field ready kits could test a DNA sample- which is true if one is attempting to determine the CLASS of a bacteria. It is not true if one is trying to determine the specific identity of an individual. Any way you slice it, the real work would require days, and I find it unlikely (although not impossible) that an aircraft carrier would have a laboratory outfitted for this kind of work… it is not the Starship Enterprise out there.

So, maybe they did get Osama. But there is no fucking way they had any genetic proof of it by the time they dumped the body over the side. What is it that we are not supposed to see with all this distraction? I think the French call it “legerdemain”.

The only things necessary to prove or disprove this statement is to question anyone who is an expert on DNA identification.

Two more examples illustrate the lack of credibility enjoyed by the U.S. government. The first is from Tuesday’s (5-3-2011) World News Desk. The second is from today’s (5-5-2011).

Example 1

White House backtracks on how Osama bin Laden died in US raid — Telegraph

“Claims that the al-Qaeda leader had died while firing an automatic weapon at commandos were withdrawn, with President Barack Obama’s spokesman admitting “he was unarmed”. A dramatic description of bin Laden using his wife as a “human shield” and forcing her to sacrifice her life also proved to be false. The woman was still alive and was taken into custody with several of the terrorist’s children.

In an embarrassing climb-down, Barack Obama’s press secretary, Jay Carney, admitted that the previous version of events — which came mostly from the chief US counter-terrorism adviser, John Brennan — had been put out “with great haste”.

The about-turn left the US open to accusations of a cover-up and led to calls for video footage of the raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, and images of bin Laden’s body to be released to end conspiracy theories.”

Example 2

Even the Pentagon is staying away from the White House circus. Here’s a quote from a DoD publication. The story’s title? “The Bin Laden Information Drought”.

No one is complaining that bin Laden is dead. But every time Washington has to change details about what happened, it damages its credibility on the whole story. And instead of continuing to feed the ravenous reporters clamoring for information, officials are starving them: The Pentagon today cancelled its regular briefing for the second day in a row, even as the White House refers some questions about the bin Laden story to the Defense Department.

Now I am not going to do what we found necessary to do after 9-11, by making a huge (ever-growing) list of the galaxy of inconsistencies available. I am not going to repeat the work of myself and others, like Michel Chossudovsky and Paul Thompson, on the mythological intelligence construct that was the legend of OBL. That is all meticulously documented in “Crossing the Rubicon”.

But as the world continues to ask the obvious questions and the story continues to fray, I note that the indignant refusal by Barack Obama to produce a photo is really sending off alarms. In the past, it was an essential foreign requirement to produce death photos of Josef Goebbels, Herman Goering and Saddam Hussein. No one thought that unseemly. Granted their bodies were all intact, but I should probably note that the credibility of the United States Government was – like the dollar – more intact then.

I saw a “crawl” on CNN stating that George W. Bush declined to appear at Ground Zero with President Obama for a planned extravaganza today. Even W has got enough sense to avoid that black hole. And today we see that apparently the plans for a PR extravaganza were quashed by someone telling the President to “Shut the f*** up” and keep it simple. Obama laid a wreath, shut his mouth and got the Hell out of Dodge.

The more Barack Obama beats the 9-11 drum, the more he is going to invite a bitch slap from people and even governments around the world who understand that the 9-11 story has been a lie since before the attacks occurred.

The following interview, which I gave to a German radio station catering to intellectuals and academics, about a week before the announcement of OBL’s death, is real evidence that much of the world is waiting to pounce on 9-11 anyway, especially as the rubble threatens to bury us.

You see people will accept lies if their lives get better. As their lives get worse, they will inevitably ask questions. And as their lives disintegrate, they will start looking for both answers and suspects. That was and is the swimming pool full of gasoline that Barack Obama is lighting matches in.

If the United States of America does not immediately announce a massive drawdown in Afghanistan, the world will keep asking questions about OBL because our lives will be getting worse, not better, by the day. And every time Mr. Obama opens his mouth about 9-11, he pours more gasoline into the pool and asks for another box of matches.

It was not my choice. Barack Obama has placed 9-11 back on the table again. Mainstream media, of course, can’t say Jack Diddly about this theater of the absurd, even though they’ve been cornered into asking a few pseudo-hardball questions. They are, after all, criminally culpable for the endorsement and concealment of something they damn well knew was a lie, murder, and high treason ten years ago.

The German radio interview which follows was recorded approximately a week before Barack Obama announced the killing of OBL. Within a few days, we will be bringing you an interview with Radio New Zealand that adds more to the picture.

WATCH INTERVIEW ON YOU TUBE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KGfq_X3dVQ&feature=player_embedded

http://carolynbaker.net/2011/05/05/ghosts-of-september-11-by-mike-ruppert/

Jan Klimkowski
05-06-2011, 09:53 PM
That so many appear to be taken in on the DPF simply astounds me! This is unreal.



Prof Fetzer - please enlighten us as to who has been taken in by what?

Jack White
05-06-2011, 11:32 PM
Jim...what is your problem with Ruppert?

Jack

Ed Jewett
05-07-2011, 01:12 AM
Media Roots Radio - Bin Laden's Death: Government & Media Propaganda, CIA Ties, Mindless Nationalism
submitted by Abby on fri, 05/06/2011 - 3:38am




Media Roots Radio - Bin Laden's Death: Government & Media Propaganda, CIA Ties, Mindless Nationalism by Media Roots

MEDIA ROOTS- Robbie and Abby Martin cover Osama Bin Laden's timely death in this breaking edition of Media Roots Radio. They break apart the government and media propaganda, expose Bin Laden's CIA ties, dissect his role as boogyman for the War on Terror and comment on the mindless nationalism and lack of critical thinking from fellow Americans following the news of his death.


The above timeline [which did not carry over on the cut-and-paste] is interactive. Scroll through it to find out more about the show's music and to resources mentioned during the [75-minute] broadcast. To see a larger version of the timeline with clickable resources go to the soundcloud link below the player.

If you would like to directly download the podcast click the down arrow icon on the right of the soundcloud display. To hide the comments to enable easier rewind and fast forward, click on the icon on the very bottom right.

Listen to last week's broadcast about Fukushima: Coverage and Break Down of Radiation, another broadcast about Libya, Nuclear Power, Religious Environmentalism, or an inerview where Two Active Duty Soldiers Speak Out.

www.MediaRoots.org


http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-06/media-roots-radio-bin-ladens-death-government-media-propaganda-cia-ties-mindless-nationalism

Note that I have not listened to this, but I am doing so now.

Ed Jewett
05-07-2011, 01:39 AM
FRIDAY, MAY 06, 2011

Staged Bin Laden Killing Hokum
Staged Bin Laden Killing Hokum - by Stephen Lendman

As reported, it sounded more like bad fiction than eliminating "Enemy Number One," especially with no visuals, corpse, independent proof, and shifting official accounts.

In Hollywood, it's called rewrite. In politics, it's lying, a Washington bipartisan specialty, notably on issues mattering most.

Also at issue is conducting lawless operations for any purpose. More on that below.

Two previous articles discussed the staged May Day hokum, accessed through the following links:

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2011/05/lies-damn-lies-and-bin-ladens-death.html

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2011/05/media-lies-and-misinformation-on-bin.html

They addressed the alleged killing of a dead man, an administration and media spread lie. David Ray Griffin's important book titled, "Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?" provided convincing objective and testimonial evidence of his mid-December 2001 death, of natural causes, not a commando hit squad getting their man.

Issues and Answers

After years of using bin Laden simultaneously as a CIA asset and "Enemy Number One," why the shift now? Aside from eliminating the alleged top terror threat, major events like this are always strategically timed for political reasons.

At least several stand out now, including:

(1) Boosting Obama's sagging image. It worked according to a New York Times poll showing an approval bump from 46% in April to an early May 57%, even though the euphoria will soon fade in hard times.

(2) Diverting attention from eroding domestic needs, notably growing angst over a deepening Main Street depression.

(3) Hyping fear for intensified, not less, imperial war, and perhaps preparing the ground for a major false flag attack to advance America's grand scheme for unchallengeable global dominance.

On May 4, Webster Tarpley told Press TV that balkanizing Pakistan is planned to use it "as an energy corridor between Iran and China or between India and Europe." Afghanistan is insufficient, he said.

"The Pakistan corridor could be created and the goal of US policy (is) to take the Afghan war and export it to Pakistan and to promote the division along the well-known lines of Punjabis, Baluchestan, (Abdolmalek) Rigi supported by NATO and so forth, and then, of course, Pashtunistan, which is the epicenter of all this."

He also suspects something greater, using bin Laden's alleged killing as "the equivalent of the Sarajevo assassination of June 22, 1914." Weeks later, WW I began. Tarpley wonders if general war is coming, involving regional and major powers.

"I think the world situation is much more dangerous (now) than most people" imagine, he said.

Ahead, he also sees a new manufactured top enemy, perhaps named after staged revenge attacks in America and/or Europe. Not from Al Queda, he believes, but from Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), whether or not it will work.

Perhaps a dirty bomb will be used as pretext to seize Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. If so, he sees a good chance of events "leading towards a general war between the two countries, and in the middle of that we have to remember that the supply line for the invaders in Afghanistan goes from Karachi across Pakistani territory for (nearly) 1,000 miles."

Imagine the consequences of disrupting it, besides drawing in other nations, possibly including China and Russia. No one knows for sure what's coming, but reckless plans produce unpredictable consequences.

Shifting Official Stories

On May 2, after Sunday's staged event, Obama's counterterrorism adviser, John Brennan, said Navy Seals killed bin Laden in a firefight. "Whether or not he got off any rounds, I frankly don't know," he said.

On May 1, New York Times writers Peter Baker, Helene Cooper and Mark Mazzetti headlined, "Bin Laden Is Dead, Obama Says," saying:

"When American operatives converged on (his compound, he) 'resisted the assault force' and was killed in the middle of an intense bun battle, a senior administration official said, but details were still sketchy early Monday morning."

In 24 hours, things changed, White House press secretary Jay Carney saying bin Laden was shot in the head unarmed. Other first reported details also changed, putting a lie to the entire account, including Brennan explaining that commandos had orders to capture him alive if he didn't resist, saying:

"If we had the opportunity to take bin Laden alive, if he didn't present any threat, the individuals involved were able and prepared to do that."

On May 4, Times writers Mark Landler and Mark Mazzetti headlined, "Account Tells of One-Sided Battle in Bin Laden Raid," saying:

The revised account "suggested that the raid, though chaotic and bloody, was extremely one-sided, with a force of more than 20 Navy Seal members quickly dispatching the handful of men protecting bin Laden."

In fact, US commandos took no fire. Initially saying otherwise compounded the big lie about what really happened and why extrajudicially.

On May 3, CIA director Leon Panetta repeated the deception, telling Public Broadcasting:

"There were some firefights that were going on as these guys were making their way up the staircase of that compound."

On May 4, Washington Post writers Anne Kornblut and Felicia Sonmez headlined, "White House goes silent on bin Laden raid," saying:

Obama "ruled out publicly releasing (bin Laden) photographs....(giving) no new details about the raid (after earlier) fitful attempts to craft a riveting narrative," now completely discredited.

He also "contradict(ed Panetta's) assertion Tuesday that the photos would eventually be made public...." Moreover, "the White House found itself struggling to (explain what happened,) and having to justify the legal basis for it."

Gerald Celente's Assessment

In a May 4 commentary, Trends Research Institute founder Gerald Celente quoted Obama, saying "justice has been done....The world is safer. It is a better place because of the death of Osama bin Laden." At time same time, Hillary Clinton warned about terror not "stop(ping) with the death of bin Laden, (so) we must redouble our efforts."

If it's safer, asked Celente, why double down? "These were but two of the contradictions coming out of the White House" after the raid with "many (other) discrepancies (to) follow."

Moreover, "absent from America's non-stop exultation and self-congratulation," as well as cheerleading media coverage, "was any discussion of the practical consequences" going forward. With or without bin Laden or others targeted, it:

-- won't win the losing Iraq and Afghan wars;

-- lower unemployment;

-- stop Western nations from economic decline;

-- revive housing or other real estate;

-- "solve the debt and deficit crises;

-- lower oil and food prices; (or)

-- reverse" devastating radiation spreading from Fukushima.

It also won't end America's permanent war agenda or curb a domestic one on working households, unionism, public education, human and civil rights, and vital benefits, including Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, on the chopping block for elimination.

According to Celente, "the restored, rebuilt, new and improved terror bandwagon rolls again....and it will keep rolling until Election Day 2012." Moreover, they'll keep fear alive and they'll blame everyone but themselves.

Legal Implications

Commenting on German television, former West German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt said:

The May 1 assault "was quite clearly a violation of international law. The operation could also have incalculable consequences in the Arab world in light of all the unrest."

He's right, of course, despite Attorney General Eric Holder saying:

The action was "lawful, legitimate and appropriate in every way....I'm proud of what they did. And I really want to emphasize that what they did was entirely lawful and consistent with our values."

In other words, according to him, Obama, other administration officials, Washington groupthink, and editorial writers and pundits, acting lawlessly is lawful.

On June 27, 2010, in their Harvard National Security Journal article headlined, "Law and Policy of Targeted Killing," Harvard Law Professors Gabriella Blum and Philip Heymann said:

"The right of a government to use deadly force against (anyone) is constrained by both domestic criminal law and international human rights norms that seek to protect the individual's right to life and liberty....Guilt must be proved in a court of law, with (charged) individuals (given) the protections of due process guarantees."

"Killing an individual without trial is allowed only" in self-defense or need to save other lives. "In almost any other case, it would be clearly unlawful, tantamount to extrajudicial execution or murder."

In other words, sending US commandos against anyone, especially in another country's sovereign territory, violates US and international law. Guilt or innocence of any crime deprives no one of due process and judicial fairness, afforded Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg.

Targets otherwise are judged guilty by accusation, not arrested, tried, Mirandized, or afforded justice. Just a bullet, bomb or slit throat, America's "rules of engagement" morality.

On May 3, Der Spiegel writer Thomas Darnstadt headlined, "Was Bin Laden's Killing Legal?" quoting University of Cologne Law Professor Claus Kress saying:

Achieving justice for any crime isn't "achieved through summary executions, but through a punishment that is meted out at the end of a trial." Doing it commando style guns blazing can also cause tragic and inevitable escalations of injustice, he added.

On May 28, 2010, Philip Alston published his UN Human Rights Council "Report of the Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions," expressing great concern that Washington "seems oblivious" to the implications of using drone attacks against people "labeled as terrorists, (and for) assert(ing) an ever-expanding entitlement for itself to target individuals across the globe," adding:

"But this strongly asserted but ill-defined license to kill without accountability is not an entitlement which the United States or other states can have without doing grave damage to the rules designed to protect the right to life and prevent extrajudicial executions."

"The most prolific user of targeted killing today is the United States" in gross violation of international law. (This) expansive and open-ended interpretation of the right to self-defense goes a long way towards destroying the prohibition on the use of armed force contained in the UN Charter. If invoked by other states, in pursuit of those they deem to be terrorists and to have attacked them, it would cause chaos."

It would also render international law null and void. No nation for any reason can be judge, jury and executioner, with no allowed exceptions.

Consider also that in 1996, Obama opposed the death penalty, and in his book titled, "The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream," he said it "does little to deter crime."

As a Senate and presidential candidate, however, he changed to accommodate public opinion, simultaneously calling death penalty justice so flawed that a national moratorium should be declared. In February 2008, he also said "no one in this country is above the law."

As president, however, he authorized torture, illegal wars, mass killings and targeted assassinations. As a result, he violates it daily abroad and at home, unaccountable to the law he once taught at the University of Chicago Law School. Perhaps a refresher course or two might help.

Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago and can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net. Also visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com and listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network Thursdays at 10AM US Central time and Saturdays and Sundays at noon. All programs are archived for easy listening.

http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-progressive-news-hour/.
posted by Steve Lendman @ 1:40 AM

Ed Jewett
05-07-2011, 01:43 AM
Media Roots Radio - Bin Laden's Death: Government & Media Propaganda, CIA Ties, Mindless Nationalism
submitted by Abby on fri, 05/06/2011 - 3:38am



Note that I have not listened to this, but I am doing so now.



Well, I got about ten minutes into it and scanned the timeline for the rest of the show and, while interesting as yet another podcast-format grass-roots media outlet, it doesn't appear to have anything you won't find faster and easier with your own scan of the Internet. Lovely thought,but I think that in today's world, if you are going to put the time, energy and expense into such a thing, you'd better have something (or someone) with an angle od depth and incisiveness that no one else has. Who has the time to listen to volumes that are not unique or up-to-date?

Ed Jewett
05-07-2011, 02:41 AM
Propagandist PR Flunkies Rub Their Stink on Seals
Posted on May 6, 2011 by willyloman
by Scott Creighton

As the hastily constructed bin Laden distraction falls apart at the seams, suddenly there’s a new threat to scare the public with, rail attack schemes, which supposedly puts Amtrak employees on a heightened “state of vigilance,”.

This is just another distraction.

Seems like all these propagandists can do is create more and more distractions when their little “plots and plans” start to unravel in their sweaty little hands and the control they so desperately seek starts to slip through their pudgy little sausage fingers.

Something interesting is taking place with the “official story” which we should probably take note of.

Last night I noticed a story about the homecoming for the Seal Team 6 members who supposedly took out the most wanted man in the history of this country.

There will be no parade, no special assembly, no heroes welcome for them.
According to the story’s unnamed “source”, Seal Team 6 returned home to no fan-fare and will never speak of their involvement in this operation, an operation that Barack Obama called our greatest single victory in the war on terror.

These soldiers will never be named, they will never tell their story to the press, they will always be sworn to secrecy about a mission which has had every single detail retold to the public over and over again already, including the supposed CIA debriefing notes which made it clear that bin Laden was not armed when he was shot.

This is the most well publicized and scrutinized Seal Team 6 mission in history, we have various animated films showing exactly what they did, when they did it, and how they did it. And yet the members who conducted it can never be named and can never speak about it? An ugly CNN “reporter” was parroting their damn debriefing notes on international television for God’s sake. The ONLY way we could know MORE about this mission is if we were told what size condoms the Seal Team members buy.

But we can’t ever hear from the team members because the specifics of the mission are a secret? Are you kidding me?

hmmmm…..

In reality, if this raid did actually take place (which is highly doubtful at this point) this is what Seal Team 6 is being credited for doing:

sneaking in at night
losing a rather expensive top-secret helicopter
engaging one armed “courier” (according to Pakistan, he was unarmed as well)
killing a 19-year-old who was unarmed
killing another unarmed “courier“
killing the wife of the courier, a woman, who was also unarmed
shooting another unarmed woman in the leg
and eventually killing the most valuable source of information in the Global War on Terror while he was in his bedroom, unarmed, and wearing his pajamas.
Reportedly because he did not raise his hands fast enough.
Then to make matters worse, they dumped his body at sea, less than 10 hours after the raid, so that no one will ever know if they actually killed bin Laden or if they just ran in and wiped out his son’s family for a PR move.

In some countries they call those “assassins”. In fact, I think this entire mission is straight out of Hit-Man 2, but I could be wrong about that.

Navy Seals have a storied history; some of it heroic, some not so heroic. That’s “war” these days I suppose.

But the story that is being attributed to the Seals in this case is far less heroic than the MSM and the White House would have us believe and I don’t think that does the reputation of the Seals any good at all. In fact, with most people quietly questioning this whole thing around the water-cooler and at their local watering holes, it kinda makes the Seals look like either callus mob hit-men or sloppy, trigger happy soldiers.

And that’s the best case scenario for the Seal Team’s reputation. Worst case is that the people of this country start to look at the Seals like they do the people surrounding the made-up Jessica Lynch story or the cover-up of the Pat Tillman murder (and yes, it was murder).

The people of this country are tired of the bullshit.

We’re tired of the Public Relations flunkies who are running these psyop programs thinking they got us all fooled.

They don’t.

And all you got to do is watch one stupid version of their marketing campaign after the other fail and blow-up in their faces, over and over again, forcing their assets in the MSM to rescind one ridiculous lie after the other to understand that we are NOT fooled by the propaganda these law-school drop-outs come up with no matter how many times we hear their “right-think” slogans repeated on the television or Tweeted by their personas.

Eventually all of their bullshit stories end up the same way once they completely fall apart under more careful scrutiny; “we aren’t going to talk about it anymore, you have to take our word for it or the terrorists win… look over THERE! Look over THEEEERE!“

The propagandist public relations flunkies have rubbed their stink all over the Navy Seals and I for one would love to see the Seals get a little pissed off about it.

The people in this country, hell the country itself, doesn’t stand a chance if good men keep silent while slime-balls make all the noise from behind their anonymous desks plunking away at key boards as one of their many “personae”.

I’m wondering when the military and the Seals and all the other services out there are going to finally have taken enough from the sniveling cowards writing this drivel (including Pennetta and Clinton), this “news”, and say “no more. No more will we be used as your pawns, no more will we support your bullshit stories with our silence.”

Not likely, but I can still “HOPE” can’t I?


http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/propagandist-pr-flunkies-rub-their-stink-on-seals/#more-15745

Ed Jewett
05-07-2011, 03:05 AM
FRIDAY, MAY 6, 2011

Bin Had


Preface: You can either dismiss all of the allegations in the first part of this post as nutty conspiracy theories, or decide that they are real and that I am using parody. Your choice. Either way, it is clear that we've been had ...


Forget that Bin Laden likely received CIA training and support in fighting against the Russians in Afghanistan. See this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this.

Forget the allegations by France's oldest and second-largest newspaper that a CIA agent met with Bin Laden two months before 9/11, and the claim by a former FBI translator that Bin Laden worked with the CIA right up until 9/11.

Forget that 9/11 was entirely foreseeable, and that government more or less heard the 9/11 hijackers' plans from their own mouths.

Forget that Dick Cheney was in charge of all counter-terrorism exercises, activities and responses on 9/11 (see this Department of State announcement, this Department of State announcement, this CNN article and this essay), and that:
In the 70's - Cheney and Rumsfeld were instrumental in generating fake intelligence exaggerating the Soviet threat in order to undermine coexistence between the U.S. and Soviet Union, which conveniently justified huge amounts of cold war spending (and see this)
According to former high-level intelligence officer Melvin Goodman, Cheney orchestrated phony intelligence for the Congress in order to get an endorsement for covert arms shipments to anti-government forces in Angola
Cheney and Rumsfeld (and many other high-level officials in the Bush Administration) were prominent members of a thinktank which called for a new American empire well before 9/11, and lamented that, without a "catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor", transformation of America into an empire would be very slow.
Forget that governments from around the world admit that they carry out false flag terrorism to justify their political goals.

Finally, forget that the U.S. could easily have captured Bin Laden in 2001 or 2007, but chose not to do so.

Bin Had

Ignoring the above, it is still obvious that we've been had.

Specifically, only 5 hours after the 9/11 attacks, Donald Rumsfeld said "my interest is to hit Saddam". He also said "Go massive . . . Sweep it all up. Things related and not."
And at 2:40 p.m. on September 11th, in a memorandum of discussions between top administration officials, several lines below the statement "judge whether good enough [to] hit S.H. [that is, Saddam Hussein] at same time", is the statement "Hard to get a good case." In other words, top officials knew that there wasn't a good case that Hussein was behind 9/11, but they wanted to use the 9/11 attacks as an excuse to justify war with Iraq anyway.

Moreover, "Ten days after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, President Bush was told in a highly classified briefing that the U.S. intelligence community had no evidence linking the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein to the [9/11] attacks and that there was scant credible evidence that Iraq had any significant collaborative ties with Al Qaeda".

And a Defense Intelligence Terrorism Summary issued in February 2002 by the United States Defense Intelligence Agency cast significant doubt on the possibility of a Saddam Hussein-al-Qaeda conspiracy.

And yet Bush, Cheney and other top administration officials claimed repeatedly for years that Saddam was behind 9/11. See this analysis. Indeed, Bush administration officials apparently swore in a lawsuit that Saddam was behind 9/11.

Moreover, President Bush's March 18, 2003 letter to Congress authorizing the use of force against Iraq, includes the following paragraph:
(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.
Therefore, the Bush administration expressly justified the Iraq war to Congress by representing that Iraq planned, authorized, committed, or aided the 9/11 attacks. See this.

Moreover, the torture program which Cheney created was specifically aimed at producing false confessions in an attempt to link Iraq and 9/11: er, the type of torture used since 9/11 was a special type of torture specifically aimed at creating false confessions:
Senator: Government Used Communist Torture Techniques Aimed at Extracting FALSE Confessions

Humanitarian Aid Worker: Torture Only Stopped When I Pretended I Was In Al Qaeda
Under torture, Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi claimed there was a link between Saddam Hussein, al-Qaida and WMD
One of the Main Sources for the 9/11 Commission Report was Tortured Until He Agreed to Sign a Confession that He Was NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO READ
9/11 Mastermind: "During ... My Interrogation I Gave A Lot Of False Information In Order To Satisfy What I Believed The Interrogators Wished To Hear"
Self-Confessed 9/11 "Mastermind" Also Falsely Confessed to Crimes He Didn't Commit
Most of the 9/11 Commission Report was Based on 3rd Hand Reports of What People Said While Being Tortured
And see this.

As American historian, investigative journalist and policy analyst Gareth Porter writes this week:
Cheney and Rumsfeld were determined not to allow a focus on bin Laden to interfere with their plan for a U.S. invasion of Iraq to overthrow the Saddam Hussein regime.
It's not just Iraq.
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair says that Dick Cheney's vision of policy towards the Middle East after 9/11 was to re-draw the map.

Porter writes in the Asia Times:

Feith's book, War and Decision, released last month, provides excerpts of the paper Rumsfeld sent to President George W Bush on September 30, 2001, calling for the administration to focus not on taking down Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network but on the aim of establishing "new regimes" in a series of states [including Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia and Lebanon ]
There are some bad guys out there, but their importance has been greatly exaggerated to justify America's imperial ambitions. No wonder former U.S. National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is "a mythical historical narrative".

Bin Laden might have been a bad guy ... but the way his life and death have been used has been dishonest.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/bin-had.html

As is typical of "Washington", this piece has 40 embedded links accessible at the original link above.

Ed Jewett
05-07-2011, 04:08 AM
Osama Bin Laden in Death and in Liife Continues to Serve his CIA Masters

by Giles Dexter and Patrick Henningsen

As Washington and the CIA scramble to shore-up their official narrative this week, it is reported that “Al-Qaeda” has confirmed the death of its leader Osama Bin Laden, according to a statement attributed to the group.

Following predictable intelligence agency protocol, this scripted statement was posted on a series of seemingly random “jihadist” internet forums.

This latest dubious Al Qaeda broadcast is timed to perfection and reads like a bookend to the White House’s grand proclamation earlier this week. The statement said that Osama bin Laden’s blood would not be “wasted” and that al-Qaeda would continue attacking the US and allies. In addition, the alleged Al Qaeda message goes on to say that Bin Laden’s death would be a “curse” for the US and urged an uprising in Pakistan.

As is the case with most western manufactured Al Qaeda messages, this one should also be read as a hint to a future move on the part of the Washington-London-Tel Aviv axis, one which may see Pakistan as a new potential NATO military conflict opponent.

Assumptions layered on top of lies, layered on assumptions. The fiction now surrounding the life and death of Osama Bin Laden has reached epidemic proportions, and now Washington is scrambling to hold its fragile story together. So it’s time to ask ourselves, what do we actually know about him, and what is pure fiction?

Firstly, what we know, undisputed and documented by public sources:

1) Osama bin Laden was a well known, well paid CIA intelligence asset used over a long period by more than one US administration to fight their proxy wars. Originally he was recruited during the end of the Carter administration to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, he was subsequently used and armed to bolster the Muslim cause where it could be applied as a proxy force in civil wars, including Bosnia in the 1990′s.

http://21stcenturywire.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/68772733_a94c2aafa2.jpg

2) On several occasions in the 1990′s (by which time his name was increasingly linked to, but never proven to be responsible for several terrorist attacks), there were opportunities to arrest him, and on each occasion intelligence services interceded on his behalf either directly, or as was the case during the Clinton administration, the case against him was dropped due to a lack of evidence.

3) Though he was claimed by Washington to have “gone rogue”, the rest of his family remain as one of the best established and most westernised of the super-elite Saudi families who have married into British high society. The bin Ladens are linked to the Bushes and have been majority share holders in world foremost transnational arms and development consortiums of the Carlyle Group, whose directors include former US President George Bush Sr and former British PM John Major.

4) There have been numerous reports of Osama bin Laden’s death, including announcements by Heads of State on several occasions. On December 26, 2001, Fox News reported on a Pakistan Observer story that the Afghan Taliban had officially pronounced Osama Bin Laden dead earlier that month. According to the report, he was buried less than 24 hours later in an unmarked grave in accordance with Wahabbist Sunni practices. On January 18, 2002, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf announced quite bluntly: “I think now, frankly, he is dead”. In October 2002, Afghan President Hamid Karzai told CNN that “I would come to believe that (Bin Laden) probably is dead”. A number of other official admissions can be found here. In total, this latest announcement by Obama would be the ninth time bin Laden has been pronounced dead.

5) Al Qaeda is not a genuine organisation, as it was invented by the FBI, CIA and promoted by western governments to sell their global war on terror.

BBC: al Qaeda does not Exist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk&feature=player_embedded
Video: How enemies Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were invented by the West.

What we don’t know:

1) There is no evidence, other than anecdotal and innuendo, whatsoever linking him directly with 9/11.

2) No evidence exists that he has been alive since late 2001. Although a number of videos and audio message have been released by CIA and Pentagon-run media offices, namely Intel Center and SITE, all subsequently proven to be poorly crafted fakes, no real evidence has ever surfaced. The most infamous of these fake tapes was the one which appeared just before the 2004 election, one that both Bush and Kerry attributed to George W. Bush gaining re-election that year.

3) There is no evidence he was ever in the ‘compound’ building in Pakistan’s Abbottabad Valley on May 1, 2011. Certainly, there is no evidence, other than the official statement from Washington this week, that he was killed then and there.

A likely version of events

As a long time western intelligence asset, Osama agreed to be the fall guy for 9/11 in exchange for safe passage and the continued patronage of his family which include a number of multi-billion dollar contracts from major Anglo-American-Saudi contractors. In death, as in life, he continues to do the bidding for his intelligence Puppet Masters, who still continue to use the utterly meaningless, catch-all term “Al Qaeda” to justify imperialist, dictatory and globalist policies, and subsequently announcing their endless agenda of grotesque plans.

Critically acclaimed author and former US intelligence operative, Steve Pieczenik, outlines the complete analysis on the legend of Bin laden here.

Washington’s announcement this week that it will not be releasing bin Laden photos is simply down to the fact that there are no genuine photos of his alleged assassination by US forces. To make this tale even more incredible, President Obama claims that Osama’s body was dumped into the Arabian Sea ten hours after he will killed.

So what do we have? No body, no photos, no video… no evidence. But the official narrative moves forward like a Hollywood script, “a brave team of Navy SEALS carried out a daring operation to capture and kill the world’s number one terrorist”. And for the first night in ten years, Americans can go to bed feeling proud and safe.

Clearly, a fictional character like Osama bin Laden was worth more alive than he was dead, which explains the lengths which Washington was willing to go in order keep his presence in play. The decision by the White House to cash in their big chip this week is likely due to a need for domestic approval, re-spin unpopular foreign occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq, and to help sustain an expensive and ultimately useless hyper-security state.

Obama’s latest propaganda stunt is the equivalent of the Holy Grail in terms of 21st century Anglo-American politics. But as well packaged as his delivery of this event appeared on Sunday evening, the fairy tale of bin Laden appears to be unravelling faster than his inexperienced Democrat spin doctors can manage. Perhaps the best strategy for the Obama Administration would have been that of the Bush Administration- to leave the major fictional villain of our epoch, Osama bin Laden… safely buried in the closet. Wheeling him out now will mostly certainly start of chain of events that even the most skilled White House media minions will find difficult to patch up.

The official narrative is easy to believe if you choose to switch off your critical faculties, and allow the Washington spokespeople and media moguls to take over, directing you what to think and when to think it. Conversely, sifting between the truth and the lies… requires effort.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24667


See also the History Commons web site and do a search for Ossama bin Laden

Peter Lemkin
05-07-2011, 05:28 AM
The announced last video by OBL [one week before his demise or redemise] has morphed into an audio tape....hmm....in any case, cant wait! Wonder why they chose not to go with the originally announced video?!