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Lauren Johnson
05-18-2011, 06:06 PM
From the May 17, 2011 by Terry Gross' interview of Journalist Annie Jacobsen, author of Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base. Her audio interview is this link (http://www.npr.org/2011/05/17/136356848/area-51-uncensored-was-it-ufos-or-the-ussr). Worth listening to. Is this information or disinformation or some combination.

Excerpts from the interview:

On flying discs and conspiracy theories

"The UFO craze began in the summer of 1947. Several months later, the G2 intelligence, which was the Army intelligence corps at the time, spent an enormous amount of time and treasure seeking out two former Third Reich aerospace designers named Walter and Reimar Horten who had allegedly created [a] flying disc. ... American intelligence agents fanned out across Europe seeking the Horton brothers to find out if, in fact, they had made this flying disc.
"The idea behind it remains, why? Why were they looking for a flying disc? And conspiracy theorists have had their hands on this declassified file for over a decade now, and they say it proves that this flying disc came from outer space. If you read the documents, the takeaway that I found fascinating was that at the end of it, the Army admits finding the Horten brothers, and that the Horten brothers admitted their contact with the Russians and that's where the file ends. Everything after that is classified."
On why Area 51 is actually classified, according to a source

"The Horten brothers were involved in the flying disc crash in New Mexico. And that is from a single source. ... There was an unusual moment where that source became very upset and told me things that were stunning that's almost impossible to believe at first read. And that is that a flying disc really did crash in New Mexico and it was transported to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and then in 1951 it was transferred to Area 51, which is why the base is called Area 51. And the stunning part of the reveal is that my source, who I absolutely believe and worked with for 18 months on this, was one of the engineers who received the equipment and he also received the people who were in the craft.
"The people were, according to the source, were child-sized pilots, and there's a lot of debate about how old they were. He believes they were 13, although other people believe they may have been older. But this is a firsthand witness to this, and I made a decision to write about this in the very end of the book, after I take the traditional journalist form of telling you everything in the third person, I switch and I kind of lean into the reader and I say, 'Look, this is not why Area 51 is classified to the point where no one in the government will admit it exists. The reason is because what one man told me.' And then using the first person, I tell you what I was told. And there's no doubt that people are going to be upset, alarmed and skeptical of this information, but I absolutely believe the veracity of my source, and I believe it was important that I put this information out there because it is the tip of a very big iceberg."
On the Soviet human experiments her source told her about

"The child-sized aviators in this craft [that crashed in New Mexico] were the result of a Soviet human experimentation program, and they had been made to look like aliens a la Orson Welles' War of the Worlds, and it was a warning shot over President Truman's bow, so to speak. In 1947, when this would have originally happened, the Soviets did not yet have the nuclear bomb, and Stalin and Truman were locked in horns with one another, and Stalin couldn't compete in nuclear weaponry yet, but he certainly could compete in the world of black propaganda — and that was his aim, according to my source. ...
"What is firsthand information is that he worked with these bodies [of the pilots] and he was an eyewitness to the horror of seeing them and working with them. Where they actually came from is obviously the subject of debate. But if you look at the timeline with Josef Mengele, he left Auschwitz in January of 1945 and disappeared for a while, and the suggestion by the source is that Mengele had already cut his losses with the Third Reich at that point and was working with Stalin."
On why the Soviets would have undertaken such a hoax

"The plan, according to my source, was to create panic in the United States with this belief that a UFO had landed with aliens inside of it. And one of the most interesting documents is the second CIA director, Walter Bedell Smith, memos back and forth to the National Security Council talking about how the fear is that the Soviets could make a hoax against America involving a UFO and overload our early air-defense warning system, making America vulnerable to an attack."


Lots more here (http://www.npr.org/2011/05/17/136356848/area-51-uncensored-was-it-ufos-or-the-ussr).

Jan Klimkowski
05-18-2011, 06:34 PM
Area 51 'Uncensored': Was It UFOs Or The USSR?

Lauren - the question is banal and proposes false solutions.

This is fundamentally important territory.

It involves the deliberate promulgation of ancient archeytpes, such as Lam.

The incredible scientific insights of Nikola Tesla.

Schwarze Sonne mysticism and its passage through the SS grinding machine.

Psyops designed to mislead and distract.

Something essential.

The Good Rocket to take us to the Stars.

The Bad Rocket for the world's Destruction.

Or should that be:

The Bad Rocket to take us to the Stars.

The Good Rocket for the world's Destruction.

Peter Lemkin
05-18-2011, 07:10 PM
This is a mix of information [minimal] and disinformation or confusion [lots]. Both the Soviets and the Allied powers were after the Nazi disk crafts....the brothers named are fictitious and the real names of the designers are thought to be known. Both the Soviets and the Allies [with the USA even cheating out their brothers in arms] were looking for and acquiring, where possible engineers, scientists and prototypes/working examples of many 'special weapons' invented by the Reich. The USA won out over the Brits, French, other Allies and, in balance, over the Soviets...although all got some things and persons/plans. To my knowledge at least two actual working disk-shaped craft were brought to the USA...others were built upon the model and plans. They were flown mostly in the desert southwest [BUT not exclusively!], Area 51 being one test location...there were others and they were flown distances to test their reaction and stealth technology. When they crashed [or were seen] they were make to look [by the intel and military] like extraterrestrial craft; and then those who carried on with this USG planted story, were labeled as nuts. The USG gave a contract for their production to a Canadian company and photos exist, along with plans. So much mythology, sheer garbage and also official disinformation still make this field hard to research. I have. I'll leave it as the above, as an outline. They are little used now...stealth technology having taken new forms and shapes, literally. It is a bit more complex.....but such is the brief outline, as I have researched it. Sorry if I sound 'grumpy' over this...I posted lots on this on the EF, along with photos; but all my posts were made to disappear into hyperspace out of rank pettiness and hatred....and some other motives.

Charles Drago
05-18-2011, 07:32 PM
All above, but not entirely, the above.