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View Full Version : Don't Worry, The US Prisons Are In Good Hands....ha, ha, ha, ha!



Peter Lemkin
06-08-2011, 06:47 PM
Private Prison Giant Hires Former Top Federal Official

The nation’s largest private prison company has hired the former head of the Federal Bureau of Prisons to a top executive position. Harley Lappin retired as the director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons last month. On Friday, the Corrections Corporation of America named Lappin its executive vice president and chief corrections officer. Lappin had stepped down as federal prison chief following his arrest for driving under the influence. A $1.6 billion company, the CCA has faced widespread allegations of prisoner mistreatment and negligence in the deaths or injuries of prisoners in its prisons and immigrant jails. :rofl:

James Lewis
06-09-2011, 10:33 AM
Peter, this is a subject I happen to know a bit about. As a former corrections officer who used to work for CCA, I can testify to the fact that the Peter Principle (sorry about that, Peter) is alive and well in the private prison system. It's not that the conditions are that bad, they're no better or worse than most other prisons. The problem is that the bigwigs who run CCA and other private prison companies intend to do everything on a shoestring if at all possible. And if that means screwing over good officers, prisoners or anyone else who gets in the way of that goal, such is life.

Jan Klimkowski
06-09-2011, 05:50 PM
As a former corrections officer who used to work for CCA, I can testify to the fact that the Peter Principle (sorry about that, Peter) is alive and well in the private prison system. It's not that the conditions are that bad, they're no better or worse than most other prisons. The problem is that the bigwigs who run CCA and other private prison companies intend to do everything on a shoestring if at all possible. And if that means screwing over good officers, prisoners or anyone else who gets in the way of that goal, such is life.

James - given your experience, I'd be very interested in your insider perspective on the US prison system.

As a documentary maker, I watch programmes such as NatGeo's "America's Hardest Prisons" and know both how they are made and their likely impact on viewers. How true to your own work experiences is the prison life described in such documentaries?

Seamus Coogan
06-09-2011, 06:31 PM
As a former corrections officer who used to work for CCA, I can testify to the fact that the Peter Principle (sorry about that, Peter) is alive and well in the private prison system. It's not that the conditions are that bad, they're no better or worse than most other prisons. The problem is that the bigwigs who run CCA and other private prison companies intend to do everything on a shoestring if at all possible. And if that means screwing over good officers, prisoners or anyone else who gets in the way of that goal, such is life.

James - given your experience, I'd be very interested in your insider perspective on the US prison system.

As a documentary maker, I watch programmes such as NatGeo's "America's Hardest Prisons" and know both how they are made and their likely impact on viewers. How true to your own work experiences is the prison life described in such documentaries?

Id be damn interested as well Jan.

James Lewis
06-10-2011, 09:53 PM
Well, Jan, I can say that on the surface, what you see on NatGeo is pretty much on the mark as far as how things go on a day-to-day basis in most maximum security prisons. Rather dramatized, yes, but I understand that they have to have a "sizzle" factor for prime-time TV.

What they don't show is the staggering incompetence and corruption that takes place in most prisons. It doesn't show the:
Drug smuggling
Officers shacking up with inmates
Rampant incompetence among most high rank running prisons

What I mentioned happens in pretty much all prisons, the only thing that's different is the degree to which it happens from prison to prison. Trust me when I tell you that the only thing that's preventing another Texas Seven from happening is the fact that the great majority of offenders actually want to get out, if only to do more dirt on the outside. Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against prisons - goodness knows we need them. And most of the people that work in prisons are good, hardworking people who don't get paid nearly enough to deal with the daily stress in the average prison, much less a max security unit.

The major problem I have with prisons, is that there are too many of them. For that, we have the War On Drugs (which should be called The War on Some Drugs and Certain Types of Users), which isn't going away anytime soon, unfortunately. As long as we keep locking up 17-, 18-, and 19 year old's up for piddly drug offenses, and turning them into hardened criminals by the time they get out, our problem with this situation is only going to get worse. Just my two cents ;)

Jan Klimkowski
06-11-2011, 11:15 AM
James - thank you.

Your answer is worth way more than "two cents". :thumbsup:

You are of course correct that documentaries condense and heighten action for the "sizzle" factor. Or in TV grammar terms, to heighten the tension and sense of conflict.

There's one NatGeo "Hardest Prisons" programme where the prison SWAT team is stomping down corridors and the camera catches the lead prison officer in the corner of frame several times, sipping his huge mug of coffee despite the supposed emergency situation.

I can almost see the documentary director shouting: "Guys guys - back to your starting positions, we need to do that one more time. Really STOMP YOUR BOOTS AND BANG YOUR SHIELDS when you storm down the corridor!"

One clear consequence of the "America's Hardest Prisons" type programmes is that they scare the law-abiding population shitless. Particularly with respect to ethnic gangs - there are several films which focus almost entirely on hispanic gangs.

Equally it is abundantly clear - both from incidents in the documentaries such as prison officers and prisoners being slashed with home made shanks, and from your comments - that prisons are violent and dangerous places. Also that there are some individuals whose behaviour is so inherently violent - both to men and women - that they should not be walking the streets.


What they don't show is the staggering incompetence and corruption that takes place in most prisons. It doesn't show the:
Drug smuggling
Officers shacking up with inmates
Rampant incompetence among most high rank running prisons

I'm sure this is true.

In England, many prison officers live in neighbourhoods near the prisons that they work in. They may even have gone to school with some of the inmates or their family. So it's relatively easy either to bribe or scare some officers to smuggle contrabrand in and messages out.

Plus, as you say, "most of the people that work in prisons are good, hardworking people who don't get paid nearly enough to deal with the daily stress in the average prison, much less a max security unit."

I can only imagine the stress involved in hearing those doors slam locked behind you as you enter the limbo, the purgatory, of a maximum security prison, knowing that many of the inmates will injure or even kill you given a chance, and prison economics mean that there may be half a dozen officers guarding a hundred or more potentially violent prisoners. Poor pay for an incredibly stressful job.

Equally, talking to a couple of friends who've filmed in English prisons, the management appeared to both incompetent and shambolic - reinforcing your comments above.


The major problem I have with prisons, is that there are too many of them. For that, we have the War On Drugs (which should be called The War on Some Drugs and Certain Types of Users), which isn't going away anytime soon, unfortunately. As long as we keep locking up 17-, 18-, and 19 year old's up for piddly drug offenses, and turning them into hardened criminals by the time they get out, our problem with this situation is only going to get worse. Just my two cents ;)

Absolutely.

My strong sense is that young minor offenders ("scallywags") learn their place in the criminal food chain in their first visit to prison. The weakest are broken. The next weakest become footsoldiers - doing the bidding of stronger criminals. These "footsoldiers" spend their lives in and out of prison because they're continually rearrested for street level criminality and, unless they become career police informers (in which case they usually avoid jail time), they won't give up the names of their bosses because they're physically scared of the consequences.

The stronger-minded young scallies are identified early in their prison time by the criminal fraternity and become hardened inside and groomed for progression in criminal organisations.

So, yes, I agree that the consequences of jailing young men (primarily) for relatively minor drug offences are catastrophic - both for their lives and for the wider community.

Magda Hassan
06-11-2011, 11:43 AM
Then there is the Finnish prison sytem http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/02/international/europe/02FINL.html

Finnish Prisons: No Gates or Armed Guards

By WARREN HOGE

Published: January 2, 2003



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KERAVA, Finland — Going by the numbers, Antti Syvajarvi is a loser. He is a prison inmate in Finland — the country that jails fewer of its citizens than any other in the European Union.
Still, he counts himself fortunate.
"If I have to be a prisoner," he said, "I'm happy I'm one in Finland because I trust the Finnish system."
So, evidently, do law-abiding Finns, even though their system is Europe's most lenient and would probably be the object of soft-on-criminals derision in many societies outside of the Nordic countries.
In polls measuring what national institutions they admire the most, Finns put their criminal-coddling police in the No. 1 position.
The force is the smallest in per capita terms in Europe, but it has a corruption-free reputation and it solves 90 percent of its serious crimes.
"I know this system sounds like a curiosity," said Markku Salminen, a former beat patrolman and homicide detective who is now the director general of the prison service in charge of punishments. "But if you visit our prisons and walk our streets, you will see that this very mild version of law enforcement works. I don't blame other countries for having harsher systems because they have different histories and politics, but this model works for us."
Finland, a relatively classless culture with a Scandinavian belief in the benevolence of the state and a trust in its civic institutions, is something of a laboratory for gentle justice. The kinds of economic and social disparities that can produce violence don't exist in Finland's welfare state society, street crime is low, and law enforcement officials can count on support from an uncynical public.
Look in on Finland's penal institutions, whether those the system categorizes as "open" or "closed," and it is hard to tell when you've entered the world of custody. "This is a closed prison," Esko Aaltonen, warden of the Hameenlinna penitentiary, said in welcoming a visitor. "But you may have noticed you just drove in, and there was no gate blocking you."
Walls and fences have been removed in favor of unobtrusive camera surveillance and electronic alert networks. Instead of clanging iron gates, metal passageways and grim cells, there are linoleum-floored hallways lined with living spaces for inmates that resemble dormitory rooms more than lockups in a slammer.
Guards are unarmed and wear either civilian clothes or uniforms free of emblems like chevrons and epaulettes. "There are 10 guns in this prison, and they are all in my safe," Mr. Aaltonen said.
"The only time I take them out is for transfer of prisoners."
At the "open" prisons, inmates and guards address each other by first name. Prison superintendents go by nonmilitary titles like manager or governor, and prisoners are sometimes referred to as "clients" or, if they are youths, "pupils."
"We are parents, that's what we are," said Kirsti Njeminen, governor of the Kerava prison that specializes in rehabilitating young offenders like Mr. Syvajarvi.
Generous home leaves are available, particularly as the end of a sentence nears, and for midterm inmates, there are houses on the grounds, with privacy assured, where they can spend up to four days at a time with visiting spouses and children.
"We believe that the loss of freedom is the major punishment, so we try to make it as nice inside as possible," said Merja Toivonen, a supervisor at Hameenlinna.
Natalia Leppamaki, 39, a Russian immigrant convicted of drunken driving, switched off a sewing machine she was using to make prison clothing and picked up on Ms. Toivonen's point. "Here you have work, you can eat and you can do sports, but home is home, and I don't think you'll see me in here again," she said.
Thirty years ago, Finland had a rigid model, inherited from neighboring Russia, and one of the highest rates of imprisonment in Europe. But then academics provoked a thoroughgoing rethinking of penal policy, with their argument that it ought to reflect the region's liberal theories of social organization.

"Finnish criminal policy is exceptionally expert-oriented," said Tapio Lappi-Seppala, director of the National Research Institute of Legal Policy. "We believe in the moral-creating and value-shaping effect of punishment instead of punishment as retribution."
He asserted that over the last two decades, more than 40,000 Finns had been spared prison, $20 million in costs had been saved, and the crime rate had gone down to relatively low Scandinavian levels.
Mr. Salminen, the prison service director, pulled out a piece of paper and drew three horizontal lines. "This first level is self-control, the second is social control and the third is officer control. In Finland," he explained, "we try to intervene at this first level so people won't get to the other two."
The men and women who work in the prisons also back the softer approach. "There are officers who were here 20 and 30 years ago, and they say it was much tougher to work then, with more people trying to escape and more prison violence," said Kaisa Tammi-Moilanen, 32, governor of the open ward at Hameenlinna.
She conceded that there were people who took advantage of the leniency. Risto Nikunen, 41, a grizzled drifter who has never held a job and has been in prison 11 times, was asked outside his drug rehabilitation unit if he might be one of them. "Well," he shrugged, "many people do come to prison to take a break and try to get better again."
Prison officials can give up to 20 days solitary confinement to inmates as punishment for infractions like fighting or possessing drugs, though the usual term is from three to five days. Mr. Aaltonen said he tried to avoid even that by first talking out the problem with the offending inmate.
Finnish courts mete out four general punishments — a fine, a conditional sentence, which amounts to probation, community service and an unconditional sentence. Even this last category is made less harsh by a practice of letting prisoners out after only half their term is served. Like the rest of the countries of the European Union, Finland has no death penalty.
According to the Ministry of Justice in Helsinki, there are a little more than 2,700 prisoners in Finland, a country of 5.2 million people, or 52 for every 100,000 inhabitants. Ministry figures show the comparable rate is 702 per 100,000 in the United States, 664 in Russia and 131 in Portugal, the highest in the European Union.
Finland's chief worry now is the rise in drug-related crimes that do result in prison sentences and the growing number of Russians and Estonians, who Mr. Lappi-Seppala said were introducing organized-crime activities into Finland.
Finns credit their press and their politicians with keeping the law-and- order debate civil and not strident. "Our newspapers are not full of sex and crime," Mr. Salminen said. "And there is no pressure on me to get tough on criminals from populist-issue politicians like there would be in a lot of other countries."
One reason why the Finnish public may tolerate their policy of limited punishment is that victims receive compensation payments from the government. Mrs. Tammi-Moilanen was asked if this was enough to keep them from getting angry over the system of gentle justice.
"My feeling is that victims wouldn't feel that justice is better done by giving very severe punishment," she said. "We don't believe in an eye for an eye, we are a bit more civilized than that, I hope."
Mr. Syvajarvi, a muscular 21-year-old with close-cropped hair who become a heroin addict at age 14, received a six-year sentence for drug selling and assaults. As a young offender, he will serve only a third of that time, and he is expected to be out in a year.
He is now the appointed "big brother" peer counselor to other youths in the jail, must submit to random drug checks to make sure he remains off the habit and has undergone training with anger management specialists that he says has prepared him to rejoin society with a new outlook.
"Before, I wanted to be like those drug dealers in the States," he said, adding in English, "I was a gangster wannabe." He went into a boxer's crouch and popped punches in the air. "I used to think the most important thing was to stand up for yourself.
"Now I've learned that it takes more courage to run away."

James Lewis
06-11-2011, 11:57 AM
Ah, Magda...if only. Our prison system is so deeply based on a certain Puritan ethic of punishment, that only a miracle from God would change it. Plus, that ethic combined with some of our ridiculous drug laws serves another purpose. It cleanses the voting rolls of a large group of people (mainly young Black and Hispanic males) who otherwise wouldn't wouldn't vote for the conservative ruling class that we have in power now. It's not Jim Crow, but it's damn close, and a whole lot more insidious.

James Lewis
06-11-2011, 12:05 PM
Jan, a big part of the problem that I forgot to mention is what I refer to as the dreaded "uniform disease". It happens when people who aren't used to having power over other people are suddenly granted a uniform and turn into God...or something like that. I partially attribute the spread of this disease to the TV show "Oz", wherby many new officers come into the system thinking that that's what prisons are really like. And then when it isn't, they tend to try to make it that way, usually resulting in unnecessary uses of force and the eventual loss of their jobs.

And lest I forget, the disease tends to make some of the weaker-minded people who get it show a total lack of respect for anyone, especially an offender, who doesn't wear that exact same uniform, and even some who do. What they tend to forget is: There but for the grace of God go I, especially in this society.

Magda Hassan
06-11-2011, 12:13 PM
Ah, Magda...if only. Our prison system is so deeply based on a certain Puritan ethic of punishment, that only a miracle from God would change it. Plus, that ethic combined with some of our ridiculous drug laws serves another purpose. It cleanses the voting rolls of a large group of people (mainly young Black and Hispanic males) who otherwise wouldn't wouldn't vote for the conservative ruling class that we have in power now. It's not Jim Crow, but it's damn close, and a whole lot more insidious.
Yes, insidious. Odd but the Scandanavian states have also had a very austere Lutheran history not unlike Puritan England/US. Such different outcomes though.

I think the key section is this:

Finland, a relatively classless culture with a Scandinavian belief in the benevolence of the state and a trust in its civic institutions, is something of a laboratory for gentle justice. The kinds of economic and social disparities that can produce violence don't exist in Finland's welfare state society, street crime is low, and law enforcement officials can count on support from an uncynical public.

James Lewis
06-11-2011, 12:18 PM
Magda...thank you very much. The last paragraph you cite pretty much sums things up neatly. Two totally different ways of looking at crime and punishment.

Seamus Coogan
06-11-2011, 12:19 PM
I have to say mate your posts on whatever topic I choose to name are excellent. And Magda and Jan have some good insights here in NZ we are piss poor. The Finnish Model would be brilliant!

In the US are there any Native American run institutions? I heard a whisper very interesting! We're trying to do that in NZ with Maori running prisons but I'm extremely skeptical. I think it's an incentive for affluent Maori to exploit their own base of people.

James Lewis
06-11-2011, 12:48 PM
Not yet, Seamus, but give it time. It depends on who's making money and how much there is to be made.

Peter Lemkin
06-11-2011, 12:50 PM
Finland is civilized. The USA is not. When you are caught parking illegally in Finland, the fine is sent to your home via mail or electronically and is based upon a % of your income...billionaires [there aren't any, but....] would pay a fortune; a poor person almost nothing....but an equal share of what they have - equal pain and penalty. Finland and the other Scandinavian countries are based more on compassion and forgiveness - helping someone to live a better life. USA on retribution and sadism - with a religious overtone - and help is for those who don't need it....if you DESPERATELY need it, it is not available!.....from a bank loan to welfare to housing to job to medical care et al. A moral and normal person's wasteland. A military, intelligence, prison, corporate gardenspot. :what:

Seamus Coogan
06-11-2011, 12:52 PM
Finland is civilized. The USA is not. When you are caught parking illegally in Finland, the fine is sent to your home via mail or electronically and is based upon a % of your income...billionaires [there aren't any, but....] would pay a fortune; a poor person almost nothing....but an equal share of what they have - equal pain and penalty. Finland and the other Scandinavian countries are based more on compassion and forgiveness - helping someone to live a better life. USA on retribution and sadism - with a religious overtone - and help is for those who don't need it....if you need it, it is not available!.....from a bank loan to welfare or medical care.

New Zealand inspired a lot of the stuff they have in Scandanavia nowadays and we decided in the mid 80's to go the US route and bingo.

Jan Klimkowski
06-11-2011, 01:01 PM
Jan, a big part of the problem that I forgot to mention is what I refer to as the dreaded "uniform disease". It happens when people who aren't used to having power over other people are suddenly granted a uniform and turn into God...or something like that. I partially attribute the spread of this disease to the TV show "Oz", wherby many new officers come into the system thinking that that's what prisons are really like. And then when it isn't, they tend to try to make it that way, usually resulting in unnecessary uses of force and the eventual loss of their jobs.

And lest I forget, the disease tends to make some of the weaker-minded people who get it show a total lack of respect for anyone, especially an offender, who doesn't wear that exact same uniform, and even some who do. What they tend to forget is: There but for the grace of God go I, especially in this society.

James - very important point.

It is in large part the uniform. But it's also what the uniform represents: namely power.

There was an investigative documentary (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/07/ed-miliband-talks-future-social-care?INTCMP=SRCH) shown on BBC1 here a week or so ago where a young reporter went undercover at a care home for young adults with learning disabilities or forms of autism.

The documentary revealed a culture of staff with low esteem placed in a position where there were effectively no boundaries, no sanctions for misbehaviour, and no management oversight. As a result, these staff boosted their self esteem by bullying and abusing these most vulnerable of adults.

It was disgusting. But I have little doubt that such abuse is widespread - particualarly in private for profit care homes like the one featured in the programme.

And it is simply another manifestation of what you termed "uniform disease".

Seamus Coogan
06-11-2011, 01:05 PM
Jan, a big part of the problem that I forgot to mention is what I refer to as the dreaded "uniform disease". It happens when people who aren't used to having power over other people are suddenly granted a uniform and turn into God...or something like that. I partially attribute the spread of this disease to the TV show "Oz", wherby many new officers come into the system thinking that that's what prisons are really like. And then when it isn't, they tend to try to make it that way, usually resulting in unnecessary uses of force and the eventual loss of their jobs.

And lest I forget, the disease tends to make some of the weaker-minded people who get it show a total lack of respect for anyone, especially an offender, who doesn't wear that exact same uniform, and even some who do. What they tend to forget is: There but for the grace of God go I, especially in this society.

James - very important point.

It is in large part the uniform. But it's also what the uniform represents: namely power.

There was an investigative documentary (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/07/ed-miliband-talks-future-social-care?INTCMP=SRCH) shown on BBC1 here a week or so ago where a young reporter went undercover at a care home for young adults with learning disabilities or forms of autism.

The documentary revealed a culture of staff with low esteem placed in a position where there were effectively no boundaries, no sanctions for misbehaviour, and no management oversight. As a result, these staff boosted their self esteem by bullying and abusing these most vulnerable of adults.

It was disgusting. But I have little doubt that such abuse is widespread - particualarly in private for profit care homes like the one featured in the programme.

And it is simply another manifestation of what you termed "uniform disease".

Yeah man cheers Jan. Over here its a little different it's not loose enough. People are scared of making mistakes which affects them just as badly. Either way its a shocking state of affairs. Thanks didn't that Irish guy 'McKintyre' do something about this or is this the same one?

James Lewis
06-11-2011, 01:10 PM
Peter, you definitely have a point on your post, but with all due respect, you've forgotten about the major reason that prisons in the US have deteriorated to the point that they are at today. That reason is money. You know the old saying..."Money talks, BS walks"? When you have a for-profit prison system, which is financed by the public sector, the bottom line...and I mean the bottom line, is all that matters. Speaking of Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), the major subject of this thread, I can speak from experience that the bottom line is all that matters. $22 per inmate, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year...or at least that was the going rate when I left.

That's why private facilities especially are full all of the time - they can't afford to be below capacity. And officers right now are doing so much overtime because of minimum staffing laws, the turnover rate is staggering. And trust me...officers don't get treated that much better than offenders.



Finland is civilized. The USA is not. When you are caught parking illegally in Finland, the fine is sent to your home via mail or electronically and is based upon a % of your income...billionaires [there aren't any, but....] would pay a fortune; a poor person almost nothing....but an equal share of what they have - equal pain and penalty. Finland and the other Scandinavian countries are based more on compassion and forgiveness - helping someone to live a better life. USA on retribution and sadism - with a religious overtone - and help is for those who don't need it....if you need it, it is not available!.....from a bank loan to welfare or medical care.

New Zealand inspired a lot of the stuff they have in Scandanavia nowadays and we decided in the mid 80's to go the US route and bingo.

Jan Klimkowski
06-11-2011, 01:30 PM
Thanks didn't that Irish guy 'McKintyre' do something about this or is this the same one?

Donal MacIntyre went undercover in around 2002 in a Kent care home, and that expose resulted in two staff receiving police cautions.

However, "undercover" reporters for television programmes have a very short shelf life as they quickly become highly recognizable. MacIntyre's undercover career was over when he was spotted and followed by Brixton street "gangstas" during a follow-up documentary.

The British care home expose I mentioned above was brand new and broadcast in the past few days.

Plus ça change.

Seamus Coogan
06-11-2011, 03:40 PM
Thanks didn't that Irish guy 'McKintyre' do something about this or is this the same one?

Donal MacIntyre went undercover in around 2002 in a Kent care home, and that expose resulted in two staff receiving police cautions.

However, "undercover" reporters for television programmes have a very short shelf life as they quickly become highly recognizable. MacIntyre's undercover career was over when he was spotted and followed by Brixton street "gangstas" during a follow-up documentary.

The British care home expose I mentioned above was brand new and broadcast in the past few days.

Plus ça change.

Thanks mate. Great background. Ill have a watch and let you know sounds really interesting.

Peter Lemkin
06-11-2011, 05:09 PM
Peter, you definitely have a point on your post, but with all due respect, you've forgotten about the major reason that prisons in the US have deteriorated to the point that they are at today. That reason is money. You know the old saying..."Money talks, BS walks"? When you have a for-profit prison system, which is financed by the public sector, the bottom line...and I mean the bottom line, is all that matters. Speaking of Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), the major subject of this thread, I can speak from experience that the bottom line is all that matters. $22 per inmate, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year...or at least that was the going rate when I left.

That's why private facilities especially are full all of the time - they can't afford to be below capacity. And officers right now are doing so much overtime because of minimum staffing laws, the turnover rate is staggering. And trust me...officers don't get treated that much better than offenders.



Finland is civilized. The USA is not. When you are caught parking illegally in Finland, the fine is sent to your home via mail or electronically and is based upon a % of your income...billionaires [there aren't any, but....] would pay a fortune; a poor person almost nothing....but an equal share of what they have - equal pain and penalty. Finland and the other Scandinavian countries are based more on compassion and forgiveness - helping someone to live a better life. USA on retribution and sadism - with a religious overtone - and help is for those who don't need it....if you need it, it is not available!.....from a bank loan to welfare or medical care.

New Zealand inspired a lot of the stuff they have in Scandanavia nowadays and we decided in the mid 80's to go the US route and bingo.

James, I wouldn't argue any point you make. But this bottom (bottom) line you refer to also leads to CCA hiring PR firms and LOTS of lobbyists, even buying members of Congress and getting the guards [by various means] to vote for harsher legislation, more 'hanging' judges, longer sentences, etc. = greater profits [and more inmates/prisons]. Rather than having a society that is trying to lessen the need for and the number of inmates, we get the opposite!!! In addition [and you might speak to this point] CCA owns, in whole or in part, the companies [or divisions] that make all the items prisoners buy, use, eat, make calls on, et al. They profit from their misfortune in every way....even selling their labor CHEAP (or as guinea pigs for medical and intel experiments). Nowhere in the system is there anything resembling 'correction' or retraining/rehabilitation/counseling/therapy/etc. towards being a better person/citizen, able to function in the non-criminal part of society once out....rather it is a graduate level university for being a master criminal and the mean-spirited environment to drive one to 'study hard'.

Many are in for petty crimes or victimless crimes [or 'three strikes' on all-but-nothing crimes]. All inmates know those who were framed, are innocent, have excessive sentences for the crime, had both the prosecution and their public defender [plus the judge] dead set to see them locked away - the facts be damned [more so if poor and/or black]. This must enrage even those who are white and truly guilty; seeing that the system is rotten to the core. Most guards must know and see this too.

It is only Mr. and Ms. Sheeple on the outside who fail to see this....and fail to realize how easily they too could wind up on the other side of the 'wall'.....and may sooner, rather than later..if in FEMA camps [likely run by CCA]. Privatizing prisons is like privatizing the fire department...only the rich get a 'get out of jail' or 'put your house out' card.

We are #1 - HEY!
Rank Countries Amount
# 1 United States: 715 per 100,000 people
# 2 Russia: 584 per 100,000 people
# 3 Belarus: 554 per 100,000 people
# 4 Palau: 523 per 100,000 people
# 5 Belize: 459 per 100,000 people
# 6 Suriname: 437 per 100,000 people
# 7 Dominica: 420 per 100,000 people
# 8 Ukraine: 416 per 100,000 people
# 9 Bahamas, The: 410 per 100,000 people
# 10 South Africa: 402 per 100,000 people
# 11 Kyrgyzstan: 390 per 100,000 people
# 12 Singapore: 388 per 100,000 people
# 13 Kazakhstan: 386 per 100,000 people
# 14 Barbados: 367 per 100,000 people
# 15 Panama: 354 per 100,000 people
# 16 Trinidad and Tobago: 351 per 100,000 people
# 17 Thailand: 340 per 100,000 people
= 18 Estonia: 339 per 100,000 people
= 18 Latvia: 339 per 100,000 people
# 20 Saint Kitts and Nevis: 338 per 100,000 people
# 21 Grenada: 333 per 100,000 people
# 22 Botswana: 327 per 100,000 people
# 23 Swaziland: 324 per 100,000 people
# 24 Mongolia: 303 per 100,000 people
# 25 Antigua and Barbuda: 278 per 100,000 people
# 26 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines: 270 per 100,000 people
# 27 Namibia: 267 per 100,000 people
# 28 Tunisia: 253 per 100,000 people
# 29 Taiwan: 250 per 100,000 people
# 30 Saint Lucia: 243 per 100,000 people
# 31 Lithuania: 234 per 100,000 people
# 32 Costa Rica: 229 per 100,000 people
# 33 Iran: 226 per 100,000 people
# 34 Mauritius: 214 per 100,000 people
# 35 Poland: 210 per 100,000 people
# 36 Uruguay: 209 per 100,000 people
# 37 Seychelles: 207 per 100,000 people
# 38 Chile: 204 per 100,000 people
# 39 Azerbaijan: 198 per 100,000 people
# 40 Romania: 193 per 100,000 people
# 41 Uzbekistan: 184 per 100,000 people
# 42 Czech Republic: 178 per 100,000 people
= 43 Morocco: 176 per 100,000 people
= 43 Jamaica: 176 per 100,000 people
# 45 Guyana: 175 per 100,000 people
# 46 Israel: 174 per 100,000 people
# 47 Libya: 173 per 100,000 people
# 48 Honduras: 172 per 100,000 people
= 49 Mexico: 169 per 100,000 people
= 49 Brazil: 169 per 100,000 people
= 51 Slovakia: 165 per 100,000 people
= 51 Hungary: 165 per 100,000 people
= 53 Malaysia: 161 per 100,000 people
= 53 Tajikistan: 161 per 100,000 people
# 55 New Zealand: 160 per 100,000 people
# 56 El Salvador: 158 per 100,000 people
# 57 Dominican Republic: 157 per 100,000 people
# 58 Bahrain: 155 per 100,000 people
# 59 Georgia: 148 per 100,000 people
# 60 Lebanon: 146 per 100,000 people
# 61 Spain: 144 per 100,000 people
= 62 Lesotho: 143 per 100,000 people
= 62 Nicaragua: 143 per 100,000 people
= 64 Madagascar: 130 per 100,000 people
= 64 Portugal: 130 per 100,000 people
= 66 Cameroon: 129 per 100,000 people
= 66 Burundi: 129 per 100,000 people
# 68 Bulgaria: 127 per 100,000 people
# 69 Colombia: 126 per 100,000 people
# 70 Zambia: 121 per 100,000 people
# 71 China: 119 per 100,000 people
# 72 Fiji: 117 per 100,000 people
= 73 Canada: 116 per 100,000 people
= 73 Australia: 116 per 100,000 people
= 73 Tanzania: 116 per 100,000 people
# 76 Netherlands: 112 per 100,000 people
= 77 Luxembourg: 111 per 100,000 people
= 77 Kenya: 111 per 100,000 people
= 79 Central African Republic: 110 per 100,000 people
= 79 Algeria: 110 per 100,000 people
= 79 Saudi Arabia: 110 per 100,000 people
# 82 Rwanda: 109 per 100,000 people
# 83 Argentina: 107 per 100,000 people
= 84 Tonga: 106 per 100,000 people
= 84 Jordan: 106 per 100,000 people
= 86 Albania: 105 per 100,000 people
= 86 Sri Lanka: 105 per 100,000 people
# 88 Peru: 104 per 100,000 people
= 89 Kuwait: 102 per 100,000 people
= 89 Bolivia: 102 per 100,000 people
= 91 Austria: 100 per 100,000 people
= 91 Italy: 100 per 100,000 people
# 93 Germany: 96 per 100,000 people
= 94 Qatar: 95 per 100,000 people
= 94 France: 95 per 100,000 people
# 96 Philippines: 94 per 100,000 people
# 97 Syria: 93 per 100,000 people
= 98 Armenia: 92 per 100,000 people
= 98 Turkey: 92 per 100,000 people
# 100 Andorra: 90 per 100,000 people
# 101 Belgium: 88 per 100,000 people
= 102 Yemen: 83 per 100,000 people
= 102 Greece: 83 per 100,000 people
= 104 Benin: 81 per 100,000 people
= 104 Oman: 81 per 100,000 people
# 106 Sao Tome and Principe: 79 per 100,000 people
# 107 Venezuela: 76 per 100,000 people
= 108 Sweden: 75 per 100,000 people
= 108 Paraguay: 75 per 100,000 people
= 110 Switzerland: 72 per 100,000 people
= 110 Denmark: 72 per 100,000 people
= 110 Malta: 72 per 100,000 people
= 113 Vietnam: 71 per 100,000 people
= 113 Finland: 71 per 100,000 people
# 115 Malawi: 70 per 100,000 people
# 116 Guatemala: 68 per 100,000 people
# 117 Papua New Guinea: 66 per 100,000 people
= 118 Norway: 64 per 100,000 people
= 118 Croatia: 64 per 100,000 people
# 120 Djibouti: 61 per 100,000 people
= 121 Ecuador: 59 per 100,000 people
= 121 Pakistan: 59 per 100,000 people
= 121 Slovenia: 59 per 100,000 people
= 124 Tuvalu: 56 per 100,000 people
= 124 Kiribati: 56 per 100,000 people
= 126 Senegal: 54 per 100,000 people
= 126 Japan: 54 per 100,000 people
= 128 Haiti: 53 per 100,000 people
= 128 Liechtenstein: 53 per 100,000 people
# 130 Ghana: 52 per 100,000 people
= 131 Mozambique: 50 per 100,000 people
= 131 Bangladesh: 50 per 100,000 people
= 131 Cyprus: 50 per 100,000 people
= 134 Nauru: 48 per 100,000 people
= 134 Mauritania: 48 per 100,000 people
= 136 Chad: 46 per 100,000 people
= 136 Togo: 46 per 100,000 people
# 138 Cambodia: 45 per 100,000 people
= 139 Angola: 44 per 100,000 people
= 139 Marshall Islands: 44 per 100,000 people
= 139 Vanuatu: 44 per 100,000 people
# 142 Iceland: 40 per 100,000 people
# 143 Monaco: 39 per 100,000 people
= 144 Indonesia: 38 per 100,000 people
= 144 Congo, Democratic Republic of the: 38 per 100,000 people
# 146 Guinea: 37 per 100,000 people
= 147 Micronesia, Federated States of: 34 per 100,000 people
= 147 Mali: 34 per 100,000 people
# 149 Nigeria: 33 per 100,000 people
# 150 Gambia, The: 32 per 100,000 people
# 151 Solomon Islands: 31 per 100,000 people
= 152 India: 29 per 100,000 people
= 152 Nepal: 29 per 100,000 people
# 154 Burkina Faso: 23 per 100,000 people
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10,000 INNOCENT PEOPLE
CONVICTED EACH YEAR, STUDY ESTIMATES (http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/ronhuff.htm)
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The Prison Industrial Complex: Does It Create A New Form Of Slavery? How Much Labor Is Done In The Prison System?83
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By Reality Bytes

Cold blooded utilization of Human Labor!

There are many organizations which have criticized what they see as a new structure, which exploits human beings in the United States. These organizations include Human Rights groups as well as Political and Social groups.

The complaints entail the use of the United States prison population, amounting to about two million people (many Black and Hispanic) to work for a range of industries for nickels and dimes.

For the business moguls that have participated in prison labor schemes, it is like they continuously hit the lottery.

The workers are unable to strike, there is no need to pay unemployment insurance. There is no need to cover vacation pay or workman's compensation bills.

The workers pull full-time shifts, they never arrive late for work. They also never call in absent due to family emergencies.

Even better then all this is that if the workers are not happy with their twenty five cents an hour job, they can be locked up in secluded cells.


The prison population is rising dramatically!

The United States incarcerates about two million inmates in State, Federal, and Private prisons all over the country.

There has never been an instance in the history of humanity that a country has caged so many of its own citizens.

The numbers do not lie! The United States has jailed more people than any other country on the globe. China has a population that exceeds the United States population by five times more than the United States.

Even though only five percent of the people on the planet reside in the United States, the United States confines twenty five percent of the globe's prison population.

In 1972 the United States prison population was around three hundred thousand, there was over one million incarcerated by 1990. The prison population rose to over two million by the year 2000.

There was only five private prisons in the country ten years ago holding a prison population of around two thousand. Now there are over one hundred private prisons exceeding sixty two thousand prisoners.

Within the next ten years that number will reach an astounding three hundred and sixty thousand inmates according to current trends.
Prisons, Corporate America , Shopping and You

Why have the number of prisoners increased?

What has changed in the American society in the past ten years? Why has there been such an increase of citizens incarcerated?

Private prisons subcontracting prisoners to work encourages reasons to have people locked up. These prisons have come to require the income from prison labor!

The commercial investors that make a profit off of the labor of prisoners also spend a huge amount of money to lobby for longer prison sentences, they do this to increase their labor force.

The Prison Industrial Complex provides for itself. There are some opponents of prisoner labor who compare the United States Prison Labor Camps as an imitation of the actions perpetrated by Nazi Germany, comparing the forced labor and concentration camps.

The United States Prison Industrial Complex is one of the most rapidly growing industries in the United States and the people who invest in this industry reside on Wall street.

This industry has profits in the mega millions and even holds its own trade exhibitions, conventions, websites, and even send out mail order and Internet catalogs.

The industry actually participates in Direct Advertising campaigns. Companies that are solicited includes construction companies, architecture companies, even investment firms on Wall street. they also solicit businesses such as plumbing supply companies, food supply companies, armed security and even padded cells in a great diversity of colors.

Privatized Prisons and Prison Labor IS Slavery

What kind of jobs do prisoners get?

As stated by many opponents, the Federal Prison Complex produces one hundred percent of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet proof vests, Identification tags, shirts, pants tents, bags and even canteens.

Not only are prisoners used to manufacture military equipment, prison workers provide ninety eight percent of the total market for equipment assembly services. They produce ninety three percent of paints and paintbrushes, ninety two percent of stove assemblies, forty six percent of body armor, thirty six percent of all home appliances, thirty percent of all microphones, headphones, and speakers, and they even manufacture twenty one percent of all office furniture.

Everything from parts for airplanes to medical supplies, prisoners produce even more than this, they are even used to train seeing eye dogs for the blind.
The history of prison labor in the United States!

The use of prisoners as units of labor has its origins in the Institution of Slavery. After the Civil War (1861-1865) an organization of hiring out prisoners was introduced to the Country to maintain the tradition of slavery.

Once the slaves aquired their Freedom, many were charged with not fulfilling their Sharecropping obligations. Sharecropping is the cultivation of the land belonging to another for a share of part of the harvest.

Many others were charged with petty theft, most cases were never proven. After being convicted these prisoners were hired out to pick cotton, or to work in the mining industry and even aiding to build the countries railway system.

Between 1870 and 1910 the State of Georgia hired out convicts that consisted of eighty eight percent of black prisoners!

The State of Alabama hired out prisoners to work in mines, ninety three percent being black!

The State of Mississippi constructed an enormous prison farm, being very similar to the older Slave Plantations except the slaves were replaced with convicts.

This infamous Parchman Plantation remained in existence until the year 1972!

DOD & the Federal Prison Industries

Who would use prison labor?

Throughout the years following the Civil War, the Jim Crow racial segregation laws were enforced in every State. The segregation of schools , housing, and even marriages as well as many other features of everyday life were affected by the Jim Crow Laws.

Jump to present time and you will notice a modern set of obvious racist laws carrying out slave labor and sweatshops within the criminal justice system, also known as the Prison Industrial Complex.
Who would invest in this kind of prison/slave labor schemes?

There are currently at least thirty seven states that have sanctioned the outsourcing of prison labor by private corporations that base their businesses within our state prison system.

The list of companies participating in this kind of labor schemes comprise some of the United States leading corporations.

IBM, Boeing, Motorola, Microsoft, AT&T, Wireless, Texas Instrument, Dell, Compaq, Honeywell, Hewlett-Packard, Nortel, Lucent Technologies, 3Com, Intel, Northern Telecom, TWA, Nordstrom's, Revlon, Macy's, Pierre Cardin, Target Stores, among many others.

Each and every one of these businesses are thrilled about the financial success produced by prison labor.

In the years between 1980 and 1994 the corporate profits rose from $392 million to an astounding $1.32 billion!



What kind of pay do the prisoners receive?

In some State penitentiaries the prisoners will receive the minimum wage for their labor, but not in all States. Colorado pays about two dollars an hour, ridiculously under the minimum wage.

In a private run prison, the convicts can be given as little as seventeen cents an hour for a six day work week resulting in the earnings of around twenty dollars a month!

The private prison with the highest prisoner wages is the CCA in Tennesee, prisoners there can receive fifty cents for an hours work if they are determined to be "highly skilled".

Working for these rates it is understandable why inmates would rather be incarcerated in Federal prisons, where the pay is so much higher.

In a Federal prison the convict can earn $1.25 an hour for an eight hour workday and occasionally they will even get overtime pay. This enables the prisoner to have $200 to $300 a month to send back home.

Due to the introduction of prison labor, the United States has again become an appealing location for investment in jobs that were designated for the Third World labor markets.

There are some companies that have managed assembly plants in Mexico near the border of the United states that have closed down their Mexican plants. These jobs have been transferred to San Quentin State Prison in California.

In the State of Texas, one factory laid off all of its 150 workers and contracted the labor of prisoners within the private Lockhart Texas prison. Inside this prison circuit boards are manufactured for companies like IBM and Compaq.

An Oregon representative recently advocated to the Nike company to slow down its production in Indonesia and instead bring these jobs to his State. He tried to persuade the shoemaker by explaining how much Nike could save in transporting their shoes into America, he also emphasized that the cost of labor would be about the same or less then Nike was paying their Indonesian employees.

Seamus Coogan
06-11-2011, 06:44 PM
Good stuff Pete I sourced that in an assignment a year and a bit ago bloody brilliant article!

Jan Klimkowski
06-12-2011, 08:43 AM
For some reason, the UK doesn't seem to be on that list.

According to the data here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_population_of_England_and_Wales), the UK has around 150 prisoners per 100,000 of the population, which would place it at around number 59 in the rankings.

Around one in ten of the UK prison population is a former serviceman (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/24/jailed-veteran-servicemen-outnumber-troops), which means there are more former soldiers in prison than serving in Afghanistan.

Comparing the UK rate of c150 with the US rate of c715, I am sure the private prison companies are licking their lips at the potential for huge expansion and huge profit under a British Tory government.

Seamus Coogan
06-12-2011, 09:05 AM
For some reason, the UK doesn't seem to be on that list.

According to the data here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_population_of_England_and_Wales), the UK has around 150 prisoners per 100,000 of the population, which would place it at around number 59 in the rankings.

Around one in ten of the UK prison population is a former serviceman (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/24/jailed-veteran-servicemen-outnumber-troops), which means there are more former soldiers in prison than serving in Afghanistan.

Comparing the UK rate of c150 with the US rate of c715, I am sure the private prison companies are licking their lips at the potential for huge expansion and huge profit under a British Tory government.

What an incredible stat that is about the servicemen and yup I imagine the Tories will be wetting themselves!!!!!!!!!!

James Lewis
06-12-2011, 09:14 AM
Oh, Jan, they are, believe me. If they can make enough money, they'll put a prison on every corner if they can get away with it.


For some reason, the UK doesn't seem to be on that list.

According to the data here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_population_of_England_and_Wales), the UK has around 150 prisoners per 100,000 of the population, which would place it at around number 59 in the rankings.

Around one in ten of the UK prison population is a former serviceman (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/24/jailed-veteran-servicemen-outnumber-troops), which means there are more former soldiers in prison than serving in Afghanistan.

Comparing the UK rate of c150 with the US rate of c715, I am sure the private prison companies are licking their lips at the potential for huge expansion and huge profit under a British Tory government.

Jan Klimkowski
06-12-2011, 09:49 AM
I've posted the article about former servicemen in British prisons below.

My suspicion is that journalists in other countries have not necessarily attempted such an analysis, so we simply do not know whether the UK is exceptional or typical.


Revealed: the hidden army in UK prisons

More veterans in justice system than soldiers serving in Afghanistan - study

Alan Travis, home affairs editor guardian.co.uk, Thursday 24 September 2009 20.52 BST

The number of former servicemen in prison or on probation or parole is now more than double the total British deployment in Afghanistan, according to a new survey. An estimated 20,000 veterans are in the criminal justice system, with 8,500 behind bars, almost one in 10 of the prison population.

The proportion of those in prison who are veterans has risen by more than 30% in the last five years.

The study by the probation officers' union Napo uncovers the hidden cost of recent conflicts. The snapshot survey of 90 probation case histories of convicted veterans shows a majority with chronic alcohol or drug problems, and nearly half suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder or depression as a result of their wartime experiences on active service.

Those involved had served in Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan. They are most likely to have been convicted of a violent offence, particularly domestic violence.

The study provides the strongest evidence yet of a direct link between the mental health of those returning from combat zones, chronic alcohol and drug abuse and domestic violence.

In many cases the symptoms of depression or stress did not become apparent for many years and included persistent flashbacks and nightmares.

Professor Tim Robbins, consultant clinical psychologist and former head of traumatic stress services at St George's hospital, London, said: "If we are asking people to do appalling things, to take part in regular firefights and hand-to-hand combat, you get to the stage where it de-sensitises them to violence. It is not just these specific things, but also [for soldiers] there is the constant rising and falling of the level of tension. In combat, they are constantly on edge and after a while they become constantly on edge."

Harry Fletcher, Napo's assistant general secretary, said the high numbers of former soldiers in prison was unacceptable: "There is overwhelming evidence that support is not available of sufficient calibre when soldiers leave the service. The preponderance of post-traumatic stress disorder and depression is also alarming."

Probation staff in 62 offices across England and Wales say the vast majority of former soldiers referred by the courts for criminal justice supervision did not receive adequate support or counselling on leaving the armed forces.

Napo also says their military experience and background is not being routinely identified when they are arrested or convicted in the courts. It wants a specific duty to be placed on criminal justice agencies to refer service personnel for appropriate help and counselling.

Probation officers say the military also urgently needs to provide programmes to tackle chronic alcohol abuse and domestic violence committed by those in their ranks and on discharge.

The probation union's estimate of 20,000 veterans in the criminal justice system breaks down into 12,000 veterans on probation or parole, and a further 8,500 in custody. These figures represent 8.5% of the total UK prison population, and 6% of all those on probation or parole.

The survey on those on probation and parole was carried out this summer and builds on a prison estimate made last year. The Ministry of Justice and the Ministry of Defence have so far taken more than a year to complete a basic survey of the number of veterans in prison. At one point the exercise was hindered by claims it contravened the Data Protection Act.

The shadow justice secretary, Dominic Grieve, said it was a disgrace that so many who served their country were in jail.

"No one is above the law, but this government has failed to provide proper support to our troops on return home," he said. "The public will be shocked to find so many soldiers in jail when the government has released thousands of criminals early because of lack of cells."

A Ministry of Justice spokesman insisted they took their duty of care for all offenders very seriously, irrespective of background. "Our first priority is protecting the public. By providing offenders with support and information which will aid their resettlement in the community we reduce the risk they will reoffend."

The spokesman said people entering the criminal justice system were from a range of backgrounds. A variety of issues had contributed to their offending behaviour, which staff worked to address.

The Ministry of Defence acknowledged that a "small minority" of ex-service personnel can face serious difficulties. A spokesperson said: "We provide a wide range of support, before, during and after leaving the services, including the MoD's Prison-in-Reach initiative," which aims to raise awareness among ex-service offenders and their families about the help available to them.

Peter Lemkin
06-12-2011, 10:00 AM
There is a fairly high % of former US soldiers in prison, although an equal number are in psychiatric hospitals, have committed suicide, or are just homeless, hopeless, [or trying to get physical/psychological help from the VA - often without effect], and depressed. Many of the mass shootings in the USA are by former servicemen. Many of those that don't kill themselves, as the final ''act" fill the prisons, as do those who stole some food out of hunger......

Keith Millea
06-12-2011, 02:41 PM
Veterans account for about 1 in 3 of the homeless population in America.This number has been fairly consistant over the years.I'm wondering if Britain has a homeless population also,as I've never read anything about homeless people there.

Jan Klimkowski
06-12-2011, 07:52 PM
Veterans account for about 1 in 3 of the homeless population in America.This number has been fairly consistant over the years.I'm wondering if Britain has a homeless population also,as I've never read anything about homeless people there.

Keith - very similar this side of the Pond. The Falklands veterans association told me about 5 years ago that it was about a third to a quarter of British homeless were former servicemen, although allegedly this number has reduced in recent years.

Peter Lemkin
06-13-2011, 03:53 AM
Veterans account for about 1 in 3 of the homeless population in America.This number has been fairly consistant over the years.I'm wondering if Britain has a homeless population also,as I've never read anything about homeless people there.

Something the recruiters leave out of their sales pitch, I'm sure. After putting their lives on the line for their country [right or wrong], they are deserted and left to fend for themselves - many can't even get the necessary medical or psychological care promised. That's gratitude for you. Young men fight the wars and die in them, often living on as injured and/or the half-dead afterwards; rich old men invent the wars, for their profit. :hobbyhorse:

Bernice Moore
06-13-2011, 11:03 AM
Good thread thank you, for educating.......b...''
Mr. Salminen, the prison service director, pulled out a piece of paper and drew three horizontal lines. "This first level is self-control, the second is social control and the third is officer control. In Finland," he explained, "we try to intervene at this first level so people won't get to the other two."

Christer Forslund
06-14-2011, 08:18 PM
See also the new thread just posted (by me):
The Pentagon & slave labor in U.S. prisons
By Sara Flounders