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Magda Hassan
06-18-2011, 01:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFQD1bAsUlw&feature=player_embedded#at=147
Time Out Productions presents Charlotte Iserbyt and a look at secret societies and their history in the United States.

Her father and grandfather we members of the infamous Skull & Bones Society at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut.

Charlotte Iserbyt is the consummate whistleblower! Iserbyt served as Senior Policy Advisor in the Office of Educational Research and Improvement (OERI), U.S. Department of Education, during the first Reagan Administration, where she first blew the whistle on a major technology initiative which would control curriculum in America's classrooms. Iserbyt is a former school board director in Camden, Maine and was co-founder and research analyst of Guardians of Education for Maine (GEM) from 1978 to 2000.

She has also served in the American Red Cross on Guam and Japan during the Korean War, and in the United States Foreign Service in Belgium and in the Republic of South Africa. Iserbyt is a speaker and writer, best known for her 1985 booklet Back to Basics Reform or OBE: Skinnerian International Curriculum and her 1989 pamphlet Soviets in the Classroom: America's Latest Education Fad which covered the details of the U.S.-Soviet and Carnegie-Soviet Education Agreements which remain in effect to this day. She is a freelance writer and has had articles published in Human Events, The Washington Times, The Bangor Daily News, and included in the record of Congressional hearings.

Ed Jewett
06-19-2011, 01:17 AM
Oh, Magda, you are pushing my buttons.... :angeldevil:

Magda Hassan
06-19-2011, 01:23 AM
:poke:

Ed Jewett
06-19-2011, 06:49 AM
Well, I've added this film with Charlotte to my growing collection of excerpts, links, videos, etc.

Yes, you know I have read Levenda's trilogy Sinister Forces, his earlier Unholy Alliance, Marrs' book The Rise of the Fourth Reich, and more. I have finished the process of excerpting them into digital format.

I haven't gotten around to buying or finding Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare, by Michael A. Hoffman II (Independent History and Research, 2001), but I will.

I did locate this: Secret Societies and Subversive Movements, by Nesta Webster, Boswell Publishing Co., Ltd., London 1924, reprinted by Omni Publications, Palmdale, CA; http://arcticbeacon.com/books/Nesta_Webster-Secret_Societies_and_Subversive_Movements.pdf but it's tucked away for another day.

I am aware of but haven't sampled Joseph Farrell's "The Brotherhood of the Bell". Yes, there are videos and films, but I prefer text with footnotes.

I've read Cloak and Dagger: The History of American Secret Intelligence (2nd edition), by Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones, Yale University Press; while there is useful historical information, it seems sycophantically puffy. [Or perhaps sanitized by omission?]

The two by Jeff Sharlet [The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, HarperCollins 2008, and C Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy (2010)] are sitting on my bedside table waiting.

The Bavarian Illuminati In America: the New England Conspiracy Scare, 1798, Vernon Stauffer, originally published in 1918 by the Columbia University Press in New York under the title New England and the Bavarian Illuminati, republished in an unabridged version in 2006 by Dover Publications, Mineola New York, has been read and highlighted. It too appears to be a bad attempt at disinformation.

Fleshing Out Skull and Bones; investigations into America’s most powerful secret society, Robert A. (Kris) Milligan (Ed.), TrineDay, 2003 has also been read and annotated.

Related standard references on the CIA and mind control have been acquired; some have been read and annotated, especially the most recent stuff. These include The Search for the Manchurian Candidate (which awaits), and Journey Into Madness (which I have read and annotated)

I have also read The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus The Christ, the channeled tale of Jesus' time traveling to meet the Oracle of Greece, the Magi of Persia, some Indian and Tibetan Buddhists, some Hindu gurus, a Zorastrian priest, and probably an early expert on the the perennial philosophy. It is very appealing and also remarkable for two key points which a century later, seem poorly masked.

I've also read several books about the Gnostic Gospels (including Mark Gaffney's Gnostic Secrets of the Naassenes: The Initiatory Teachings of the Last Supper, my review of which is posted at Amazon).

Mirage Men, Dr. Mary's Monkey, and A Terrible Mistake are all finished and annotated.

Angels Don't Play This HAARP and Controlling the Human Mind, both by Begich, are being read now. I have read Thresholds of the Mind several times.

I've also tucked away a few books by people somewhat near the fields of remote viewing, anomalous cognition, and parapsychology. I have a bunch of stuff also salted away on the psychopathology of politics, as well as my old bibliographies in mind/body/spirit topics and performance psychologies.

Future goals include reading about the Rothschild empire of banks, the Rothschild tactics used over the centuries since Mayer Amschel Bauer changed his name, the connections they now have, what they currently control, their role if any in mind control and social engineering, the role of psychiatry and its role in the Nazi mindset and practices of mind control, the importation of Nazi mind control practitioners into the US, the Tavistock Institute, the Cecil Rhodes methods of creating "circles", their extension into the United States in the form of the CFR, the Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergers (though focused on Europe), the acquisition and control of media including film, their role in Zionism and the creation of Israel, their celebration in the architecture of key Israeli buildings, and much much more. A lot of this is on the Internet; the challenge is to find definitive, meaningful and credible sources from other venues.

I am looking at issues of symbology and culture. I am compiling some definitions of evil. And I found an extensive survey or list of secret societies which I have only begun to explore: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_sociopol_brotherhoodsecretsocieties.htm

So I have a lot to colaesce, congeal, compress and and cauterize. I have yet to answer the obvious question asked by the sheer magnitude of the material I have in front of me (or on the way).

It has been suggested by some (as well as by some of the text) that I also delve into some physics, a study of Jungian archetypes, etc., but I may be too soon too oldt for Jung and too dumb for Pauli, Peat and Prigogine.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/RWS_Tarot_16_Tower.jpg


A working draft concept statement follows:

"This process is examining the histories of Europe (which includes Russia) since about 1700 and its development of secret societies, much of which transformed itself and re-appeared elsewhere (in France, in the US, and most notably in Germany), where it gave birth to other movements, societies and most importantly mind-sets (or what came to be known in Germany as "world-views"). It also gave birth to the Thule Gessellschaft, and a cult that came to be known as Naziism.

That the growth and practice of Naziism (with all its vile excesses) was the outcome of an orientation to what can only be described as a satanic cult is well-documented in numerous sources.

That the support and transference of those "world-views" [which include a very unhealthy, criminal, amoral and undemocratic practice of learning how to control another mind individually or collectively which emanated from within the US and adopted findings, research and practices planted near-simultaneously in Russia, Germany and the US by the "sinister forces" behind the development of secret societies] was generated and kept alive by the same massed wealth (acting through the Eastern Establishment and the OSS/CIA, and friends) which now makes itself known on Wall Street and inside the Fed is also well-known and well-documented. This alliance, allegiance or tendency between the factors at work in the last few decades and the darker forces of older and deep history is perhaps only because they have adopted the same ruthless mind-set. Levenda has a wonderful quote on this.

So the US government and the financial sector of the US economy (Wall Street and the Fed) are working hand-in-glove to insure that the world is constantly divided, engaged in turmoil, active in open and covert warfare which generates debt which makes certain people inordinately rich and the "actors" somewhat rich but which impoverishes and kills off the rest of the world. These powers are working to control everything for themselves, sharing it not with anyone else. Everything they do is done in secrecy, with lack of accountability, through methods of deception, propaganda, NewSpeak, etc. [That is also well-documented.]

I have noted in the past that I am a user of the HoloSync system which functions with binaural beat technology to drive brain wave states and open up the corpus callosum to insure greater integration of both spheres of the mind. This technology was developed with CIA support and practice during its search for mind control methods; the CIA went in the negative or power-control direction of forcing external control. Others understand that, focused with the right intent, the technology is also incredibly empowering for the individual when the individual controls and directs it. I have been an auto-didact in the fields of performance psychology and have taught it -- with demonstrable results -- to more than a few people. The value is not me; to borrow on Edith Wharton, I am not the candle, merely the mirror reflecting its light.

The evolution of mankind will not be aided and abetted by secrecy, the compartmentalization of knowledge, or the hoarding of inside information for greed and power but, in a HoloSync-style method, the functionality of society, the Internet and politics in the agorae must be opened up [or created in parallel]. Holo-Sync opens up communication across the corpus callosum thereby strengthening and thickening [myelin sheath on nerves] the network of synapses and their tubular crystalline abilities to communicate across distances from person to person. It is the sharing and holistic pooling of data, experience and knowledge and a synaptic plasticity which allows both the strengthening of functional connections and the dis-use of dysfunctional ones that will foster growth of the whole holistically.

'Created in parallel' sounds akin to dissociative identity disorder. But sometimes the traumatized must secede for a while in order to become whole again.

It is best to treat the whole, the unity. But the "sinister forces" [a term created by the Nuremburg prosecutor] continue to work to divide us, and to insure that we utilize only parts of our logical brain, because they know best -- and are working at it continuously even as we speak -- how to shut that down at will.

We must work with equal intensity at training people in how to open up their own entire brain/mind, body and spirit, and properly focus them at will.

'Direct access to God is always frowned upon by religious institutions, for such access renders the institution irrelevant.'

'Efforts at mind control by the state then go directly and deeply to the heart of the relationship of the individual and the state.'

Ed Jewett
06-19-2011, 10:36 PM
Also peeled off the bookmarked list:

#1) Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All Religions and Governments of Europe, Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Free Masons, Illuminati, and Reading Societies, Collected from Good Authorities

This 1798 book presents the proofs of a conspiracy against all the religions and governments of Europe carried on in the secret meetings of Freemasons, Illuminati and Reading Societies, collected from good authorities by John Robison, Professor of natural philosophy and Secretary to the Royal Society of Edinburgh, to which is added a postscript. Contents: John Robinson letter and Lucretius poem; schisms in Freemasonry; the Illuminati; the German Union; the French Revolution; postscript.

John Robison (1739–1805) was a Scottish physicist and mathematician. He was a professor of philosophy at the University of Edinburgh. A member of the Edinburgh Philosophical Society when it received its royal warrant, he was appointed as the first General Secretary to the Royal Society of Edinburgh. Robison invented the siren and also worked with James Watt on an early steam car. Following the French Revolution, Robison became disenchanted with elements of the Enlightenment. He authored Proofs of a Conspiracy in 1797—a polemic accusing Freemasonry of being infiltrated by Weishaupt’s Order of the Illuminati. Robison and French priest Abbé Barruel independently developed similar views that the Illuminati had infiltrated Continental Freemasonry, leading to the excesses of the French Revolution. In 1798, the Reverend G. W. Snyder sent Robison’s book to George Washington for his thoughts on the subject in which he replied to him in his Letter to the Reverend G. W. Snyder (24 October 1798). Modern conspiracy theorists like Nesta Webster and William Guy Carr believe that Robison’s book described what the Illuminati may have started was the template for the subversion of otherwise benign organizations by radical groups through the 19th and 20th centuries. Spiritual Counterfeits Project editor Tal Brooke has compared the views of Proofs of a Conspiracy with those found in Carroll Quigley’s Tragedy and Hope (Macmillan, 1966). Brooke suggests that the new world order, which Robison believed Adam Weishaupt (founder of the Illuminati) had in part accomplished through the infiltration of Freemasonry, will now be completed by those holding sway over the international banking system (e.g., by means of the Rothschilds’ banks, Federal Reserve, IMF, and World Bank).

http://knowledgefiles.com/authors/john-robison/proofs-of-a-conspiracy-against-all-religions-and-governments/

The book can be downloaded at that link.

See also http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_proofsconspiracy.htm

#2) The Wikipedia entry for "The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus The Christ" is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aquarian_Gospel_of_Jesus_the_Christ and it contains, among many other links, a link to the text (http://www.aquariangospel.org/Aquarian-Gospel-1911.html), thus saving folks some money should they want to read it for themselves. And this (http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/agjc/) is the e-text itself.

The Wikipedia entry for "Disciples of Christ" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Church_(Disciples_of_Christ) ; scroll down for a list of prominent members.

The WIkipedia entry for Levi Dowling, the author/channeler of "The Aquarian Gospel...": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levi_H._Dowling

#3) The Wikipedia link on the word grimoire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimoire

Levenda's trilogy is subtitled "A Grimoire of American Political Witchcrft".

#4) "The Thule Society and the New World Order" by Steve Van Nattan
from Cephas Ministry Library Website

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_thule03.htm

This includes a discussion of Skull and Bones.

Lauren Johnson
06-20-2011, 03:08 AM
EJ: Why are you including the Aquarian Gospel etc. in your reading list?

Ed Jewett
06-20-2011, 06:13 AM
EJ: Why are you including the Aquarian Gospel etc. in your reading list?

At first for personal reasons...

#1) It represents to me a personal challenge in knowing my own beliefs and spirituality, and in sensing the tug and pull of 'the twins of God and politics' in American culture. I was baptized a Presbyterian. After my mother died five days after I was born, my nanny was a Mennonite. I was sent to a Methodist Sunday School by my step-mother, and to a Congregational church by my parents in a new locale. I married a Catholic in a Congregational and, later, Catholic ceremony. My father disowned me. Eight years later, we divorced. My father disowned me again. I met and married a lapsed Catholic. I had already seen and borne witness to the hypocrisies of organized religion. I begun to study Taoism, then a bit of Buddhism, and then expanded a library on religion and spirituality to 80 volumes. And then, suddenly, available through a regular outlet for discounted books while I read the other noted material, was this "gospel" that theoretically filled in the missing years in Jesus' history when he studied with masters from other faiths. Personally, I revere Jesus, and have shared with my children a book limited only to His own words from the Bible. I also find a great deal of resonance in Gaffney's book. Even the Aquarian Gospel -- like a good juicy hunk of propagandistic disinformation -- is appealing and parallels much in the Bible (with errors noted by others). But there's that tug and pull again...

#2) I had a strange encounter (actually, a complete lack of contact) with an individual I met during an extended interaction years ago who claimed to be a "Disciple in Christ"-in-training and whose secretive motives and controlling actions regarding a third individual of mutual acquaintance I found to be highly questionable and suspect. This concurrence had connections and correlations to some of the text in Levenda's "Sinister Forces" and some of the additional background of the mutual acquaintance.

#3) The description in "The Aquarian Gospel" [Section XI, Chapters 47-59] struck me, on first reading, as having parallel with the process of testing, and degrees, and recognition of attainment or passage of stages, that is found in secret societies. I am by no means an expert or well-read in these matters, especially of Freemasonry.

It should be noted that my great-great-grandfather was, according to the family genealogy, a 32nd Degree Mason. The 32nd Degree ritual from the Authentic Scottish Rite Ritual" is found here (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/32nd_degree_ritual.htm). His son, my grandfather, was chiefly responsible for the industrial production of a billion .30-caliber rounds for the US military, as noted in the "Winchester Record", Volume One, Number Two (8/30/1918). (I have some ancestral karma to transmogrify.)

"The only words not spoken and not allowed in the tolerant Luciferian religion of freemasonry is Jesus Christ, Yeshua the Messiah. ... After offering more incense to Lucifer, the seeker of the Royal Secret, in his 32nd degree ritual makes more vows before he gets the Luciferian baptism of the 32nd degree. He vows:
I do most solemnly vow and promise, that I will be until I die the implacable enemy of all spiritual tyranny, (i.e.. conformity to the Authorized scriptures), over souls and consciences of men, resisting all claims of church, synagogue, and mosque to outlaw free conscience and enslave thought and opinion, and compel men to believe what it may prescribe.

The antichrist nature of such a vow is seen ...."

#4) In the book [Section XXII, Tau, Chapter 181, Verse 10], it speaks of the 13th disciple, Matthias, an Israelite "learned in all the wisdom of Egyptian schools, and he had taught the mysteries of Mizraim in Jericho." This struck me as being of interest given Jim Marrs' venture into matters Egyptian in his not-yet-read book "Rule By Secrecy" [which should have been included on the list as well]; here is the related video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3HksCZqmck. I haven't watched that yet either. But the order of Mizraim [ http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/rite_of_mizraim.htm ] is mentioned elsewhere. Here is one reference:

"Some years ago, a document to which the reader must be referred, [I]The Protocols of the Wise Men or Elders of Zion{2}, was brought to light. Abstracted from a Jewish Lodge of Mizraim in Paris, in 1884, by Joseph Schorst, later murdered in Egypt, it embodied the programme of esoteric Judaism. Schorst was the son of a man who, in 1881, had been sentenced in London to ten years penal servitude for counterfeiting."

And there is the role of Allen Dulles, in his first foreign posting, in the "outing" of Protocols.

***

You, and anyone else, are free to believe what you want to believe, free of mind to read and analyze for your self without my directive or tutelage.

The issue comes to roost for me in the matter of 'direct access to God' and mind control, having had -- and documented -- a number of personal epiphanies, and based on my reading, reflection and meditation, and my personal reading in issues of mind control. As I live, and reflect on Christ, and other masters and methods of mastery, I am interested in understanding this matter of self, God, and society and in placing myself in correct relationship to them.

We haven't even mentioned Evica's book "A Certain Arrogance", or "JFK and the Unspeakable", or Douglass' book "Resistance and Contemplation", but they all form a related cross-section of learning and reflection.

Ed Jewett
06-22-2011, 09:32 PM
Skull and Bones and thesis, antithesis and synthesis
http://www.american-buddha.com/antonysuttonskull22.jpg

Charles Drago
06-22-2011, 11:56 PM
We haven't even mentioned Evica's book "A Certain Arrogance", or "JFK and the Unspeakable", or Douglass' book "Resistance and Contemplation", but they all form a related cross-section of learning and reflection.

George Michael's passing represents the tragic conclusion of his earth-bound studies in the fields of mythology and comparative religions -- all of which inform his deep political analyses, among other areas of study and contemplation.

On the last day I saw him in this life, George Michael told me that his first order of business upon returning home would be to read the Sinister Forces trilogy.

I assume he has done so.

Ed Jewett
07-06-2011, 06:49 PM
From the introduction to the 2002 edition (re-published by TrineDay) of America’s Secret Establishment: an introduction to the order of Skull and Bones by Antony C Sutton.

“Wonder why we haven’t a “dumbed-down” society? Look no further than the Bonesmen troika who imported the Prussian education system into the US in the 19th century. A political philosophy in direct opposition to the classical liberalism nurtured in 19th century British and American history. In classic liberalism, the State is always subordinate to the individual. In Hegelian Statism, as we have seen in Nazi-ism and Marxism, the State is supreme, and the individual exists only to serve the State. ... In education, the Dewey system was initiated and promoted by Skull and Bones members. Dewey was an ardent Statist, and a believer in the Hegelian idea that the child exists to be trained to serve the state. This requires suppression of individualist tendencies and a careful spoon-feeding of of approved knowledge. This “dumbing down” of American education is not easily apparent unless you’ve studied in both foreign and domestic US universities–then the contrast becomes crystal clear.”

****

“Pres. George Bush, Junior, a Bonesman, appoints a Monsanto vice president, Dr. Virginia Weldon, as director of FDA, which has the power to block labeling of genetically-engineered foods, and to pass on other corporate control efforts.”

[Clarence Thomas, current associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, was nominated Bonesman George HW Bush; Thomas once worked as a an attorney for Monsanto.]

****


From the 2002 edition (re-published by TrineDay) of America’s Secret Establishment: an introduction to the order of Skull and Bones by Anthony C Sutton.


“There is an Establishment history, an official history, which dominates history textbooks, trade publishing, the media and library shelves. The official line always assumes that events such as wars, revolutions, scandals, assassinations, are more or less random unconnected events. By definition events can NEVER be the result of conspiracy, they can never result from premeditated planned group action. An excellent example is the Kennedy assassination when, within nine hours of the Dallas tragedy, TV networks announced the shooting was NOT a conspiracy, regardless of the fact that a negative proposition can never be proven, and that the investigation that hardly begun.

Woe be to any book or author that falls outside the official guidelines. Foundation support is not there. Publishers get cold feet. Distribution is hit and miss, or non-existent.

Just to ensure the official line dominates, in 1946 the Rockefeller Foundation allotted $139,000 for an official history of World War II. This was to avoid the repeated debunking history books which embarrassed the Establishment after World War I. The reader will be interested up to know that The Order we are about to investigate had great foresight, back in the 1880s, create both the American Historical Association and the American Economic Association (most economists were then mere historians and analysts) under their terms, with their people and their objectives. Andrew Dickson White was a member of The Order and the first president of the American Historical Association..... The revisionist historian has a double burden as well say double task. The double burden is that research likely to question the official historical line will not get financed. The double task is that research must be more than usually careful and precise.”

“The Order has either set up or penetrated just about every significant research, policy, and opinion-making organization in the United States, in addition to the church, business, law, government and politics.… The evolution of American society is not, and has not been for a century, a voluntary development reflecting individual opinion, ideas and decisions at the grassroots. On the contrary, the broad direction has been created artificially and stimulated by The Order.

Not all organizations know they have been penetrated or used for another purpose. It’s a situation very much as Quigley [Carroll Quigley, professor at the School of Foreign Service, Georgetown University, in his description of “The Group” in his book The Anglo-American Establishment ]:

“There is… an inner core of independent associates who unquestionably knew that they were members of a group devoted to a common purpose and an outer circle of the larger number on whom the inner circle acted by personal persuasion, patronage distribution and social pressure. It is probable that most members of the outer circle were not conscious that they were being used by a secret society.”

Therefore, our hypothesis number two is: “The Order has penetrated or been the dominant influence in sufficient policy, research and opinion making organizations that it determines the basic direction of American society.”

--

“One observation is that The Order gets the ball rolling in new organizations, i.e., puts in the first president or chairman and the ideas and then, when operations are rolling along, often just fades out of the picture.

Among universities we can cite Cornell University, where Andrew Dickson White (‘53) was its first president, and Johns Hopkins University, based on the German educational system, where Daniel Coit Gilman (‘52) was the first president (1875–1901).

Among academic associations the American Historical Association, the American Economic Association, the American Chemical Society, and the American Psychological Association were all started by members of the order or persons close to the order. These are key associations for the conditioning of society.

This phenomenon of the order as the first on the scene is found especially among foundations, load appears that the order keeps a continuing presence among foundation trustees. It does more than just be first were money is concerned. It stays around to keep an eye on expenditures.… The first president of the Carnegie institution (1902-1905) was Daniel Gillman, but other members of The Order have been on Carnegie boards since the turn-of-the-century. Gilman was on the scene for the founding of the Peabody, Slater, and Russell Sage foundation’s. McGeorge Bundy was president of the Ford Foundation from 1966 to 1979.

In 1920, Theodore Marburg founded the American Society for the Judicial Settlement of International Disputes, Marburg was only the president. The first chairman was member William Howard Taft (‘78). The society was the forerunner of the League to Enforce the Peace, which developed into the League of Nations concept and ultimately into the United Nations.

In United Nations we find, for example, that Archibald McLeish (15) was the brains behind the prostitution of the UNESCO organization.

We find the same first on the scene phenomenon in “think tanks.”....

There has been a significant penetration into communications.

Some examples:
Henry Luce of Time-Life is in The Order.
So is William Buckley (50) of National Review, and
Alfred Cowles (‘13), president of Cowle’s Communications, Des Moines Register, Minneapolis Star
and Emmett Bates (‘32) of Litton Educational Systems, plus
Richard Eli Danielson (‘07) of Atlantic Monthly
Russell Wheeler Davenport (‘23), Fortune
John Chipman Farrar (‘18), Farrar, Strauss, the publishers.
The most prestigious award in journalism is a Nieman Fellowship at Harvard University. Over 300 were granted from 1937 to 1968. The first director of the Neiman Fund was member Archibald McLeish.

… A dozen members can be linked to the Federal Reserve, but one appointment is noteworthy, Pierre Jay (‘92), whose only claim to fame in 1913 was to run a private school and be an obscure vice president of Manhattan Bank yet he became first chairman of the New York Federal Reserve, the really significant Federal Reserve bank. [The White House, politics and government] is the area where The Order has made headway, with names like Taft, Bush, Stimpson, Chafee, Leavitt, Whitney, Bundy and so on. It would take a separate volume to cover this story and in Memorandum Nine we describe just one example, the Bundy operation.”

***

On pages 34 and 35:

“In the Hegelian system conflict is essential. Furthermore, for Hegel and systems based on Hegel, the State is absolute. The State requires complete obedience from the individual citizen and individual does not exist for himself in these so-called organic systems but only to perform a role in the operation of the state. He finds freedom only in obedience to the state. There is no freedom in Hitler’s Germany, there is no freedom for the individual under Marxism, neither will there be in the New World Order. And if it sounds like George Orwell’s 1984–it is.

In brief, the State is supreme and conflict is used to bring about the ideal society. Individuals find freedom in obedience to the rulers.

So who or what is the State? Obviously it’s a self-appointed elite. It is interesting that Fichte, who develop these ideas before Hegel, was a Freemason, almost certainly Illuminati, and certainly was promoted by the Illuminati. Furthermore, the Illuminati principle is that the end justifies the means, a principle that Quigley scores as immoral and used by both The Group and The Order, is rooted in Hegel.… This, then, is a vital part of our explanation of The Order. When it’s co-founder, William Russell, was in Germany in 1831–1832, there was no way he could have avoided Hegelian theory and discussion. It was the talk of the campus. It swept intellectual Germany like a Pac-Man craze. Most Americans haven’t heard of it. And those who have don’t want to hear anymore about it. Why? Because his assumptions are completely at variance with our sense of individual freedom and Constitutional guarantees. Most of us believe the state exists to serve the individual, not vice versa.

The Order believes the opposite to most of us. That is crucial to understanding what they are about. So any discussion between left and right, while essential to promote change, is never allowed to develop into a discussion along the lines of Jeffersonian democracy, i.e., the best government is least government. The discussion and the funding is always towards more state power, use of state power and away from individual rights. So it doesn’t matter from the viewpoint of the order whether it turned left, right, Democratic, Republican, secular or religious–so long as the discussion is kept within the framework of the state and the power of the state.

This is the common feature between this seemingly dissimilar positions taken by members–they have a higher common objective in which clash of ideas is essential. So long as rights of the individual are not introduced into the discussion, the clash of ideas generates the conflict necessary for change.

As the objective is also global control, an emphasis is placed on global thinking, i.e., internationalism. This is done through world organizations and world law. The great contribution of the Taft’s to The Order was in the world court and world law–to the internationalist aspect of the New World Order.”


***


The Bundy operation is covered on pages 47 through page 52 in Sutton’s ASE. The history of the Bundy family is presented in some detail and notes Harvey Hollister Bundy, special assistant to the Secretary of War Stimson in 1909, William Putney Bundy (‘39) in the CIA and as an editor of Foreign Affairs, and McGeorge Bundy (‘40) a government and foundation official. Page 48 contains a snapshot of his curriculum vitae which placed him at the heart of Cold War foreign affairs; page 49 includes a side trip to the role of his law firm in the McCarthy Senate hearings on subversion, notes its contribution to the Alger Hiss defense fund, its role in the George McGovern presidential campaign, and more. In 1960, Bundy, “while still at CIA, became staff director for the newly formed Presidential Commission on National Goals; quotes from the report of this commission appear on page 50 and are “almost pure Hegelianism:

a) “a role of government is to stimulate changes of attitude”;
“in the 1960s every American is summoned to extraordinary personal responsibility, sustained effort, and sacrifice”;
c) “the American citizen in the years ahead ought to devote a larger portion of his time and energy directly to the solution of the nation’s problems… many ways are open for citizens to participate in the attainment of national goals.”

Now the basic set of rules governing our societies the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. There is nothing in these constitutional documents to support any of these demands. What the demands imply is that an American citizen has a duty to advance the will of the state…”

The actionable turnkey element inherent in Skull and Bones and other secret societies is the preferential treatment accorded to members by members. In McGeorge Bundy’s case, after graduating from Yale and joining The Order in 1940, Bundy spent a while at Harvard and then joined the U.S. Army “as a private”. Within 12 months Bundy had rocketed to captain and staff officer working on operation Husky (the invasion of Sicily) and operation overlord (the invasion of Normandy). If there is one job in this world that requires experience, it must be a staff planning officer for him to be his operation. Only experience can make the calculations of timing and logistics for personnel and supplies come out right. And men’s lives depend on this experience. Can a 23-year-old, with no military experience, undertake planning for amphibious operations? The answer is obviously no even if his father (The Order) is in the Pentagon as an aid to the Secretary of War (The Order).… [After the war] Bundy became consultant to the Economic Cooperation Administration, although he presumably knew no more about economics than amphibious landing, then foreign policy analyst for presidential candidate Thomas Dewey, then analyst for the Council on Foreign Relations. By 1949, Bundy was invited to Harvard University and in four years (1953) was made Dean of the faculty of arts and sciences.… In 1966, McGeorge Bundy was appointed president of the Ford Foundation, a post he retained until 1979. While at Ford, Bundy brought in as vice president in charge of education research division, another member of The Order–Harold Howe II.

Howe’s qualifications, apart from a Yale undergraduate degree, can be described in Howe’s own words:

“… In the old scheme of things I would not have qualifications to be a professor–I have no PhD degree, no scholarly research publications to my credit. I once applied to the Yale graduate school but was turned down as academically unpromising.”

**


“… It is extraordinary how newspaper editors, columnists, TV and radio commentators, and publishers either lack insight to see beyond the superficial or are scared witless to do so. Even worse, the educated public, the 30-40,000,000 degree holders, lets these opinion molders get away with it.

Outright censorship has not been too effective. There have certainly been a campaign to suppress revisionist interpretations of history. Witness Harry Elmer Barnes in “the struggle against the historical blackout”:

“It may be said, with great restraint, that, never since the Dark and Middle Ages, have there been so many powerful forces organized and alerted against the assertion and acceptance of historical truth as are active today to prevent the facts about the responsibilities of the second world war and its results from being a generally accessible to the American public. Even the great Rockefeller Foundation frankly admits (Annual Reportt, 1946, page 188) the subsidizing of a core of the historians to anticipate and frustrate the development of any Neo–Revisionism in our time. And the only difference between the foundation and several others is that it it has been more candid and forthright about its politics.…

More effective than outright censorship is use of the left-right political spectrum to neutralize unwelcome facts and ideas or just condition citizens to think along certain lines.

The “left” leaning segment of the press can always be relied upon to automatically assault ideas and information from the “right” and vice versa. In fact, media outlets have been artificially set up for just this purpose: both Nation and New Republic on the “left” were financed by Willard Straight, using Payne Whitney (The Order) funds. On the “right”, National Review published by William Buckley (The order) runs a perpetual deficit, presumably made up by Buckley.

Neither the independent right nor the independent left sees the trap. They are so busy firing at each other they’ve mostly forgotten the behind-the-scenes. And The Order smugly claims control of the “moderate” center. A neat game, and it’s worked like a charm.....”

Pages 53-54, Sutton's ASE

Ed Jewett
07-06-2011, 06:51 PM
From the introduction by Levenda to Sinister Forces: a grimoire of American political witchcraft (Book 2: A Warm Gun), Peter Levenda, TrineDay 2006.


“ ... there are times when it appears that world history is nothing less than the story of warring secret societies, with all the rest of the humanity mere pawns....

The Rosicrucians of the 17th century gave us a prototype of the secret society: a band of brothers, bound together by mystical visions, which it probably never existed in reality but was the romantic invention of an English alchemist. It was an otherwise

What is Al Qaeda, then, but another secret society: a band of brothers, bound together by a mystical vision of the world, whose membership is largely secret, were betrayal of groups ministries is punished by death, and which is probably a very small organization with a larger-than-life profile whose reputation is made on websites and videotapes… and mass murder. The same was said of the illuminati and the Freemasons, upon whom the blame for centuries of violent revolution was laid. That Al Qaeda–“the base”–has more in common with the assassins cult of Hassan i-Sabah only reinforces this idea of the secret society at war with the world… and with the West in general.

Should surprise us, then, that the putative opponents of Al Qaeda should be members of the Western secret society?

The secret society and occult affiliations of America’s political and intelligence leadership is something that is never discussed on the open airwaves, never investigated by the mainstream media. We have all heard of Skull and Bones, and know that Pres. George W. Bush was a member of this college fraternity while a student at Yale University. The story seems to end there. No one delves too deeply into this aspect of Bush’s life, even when it is revealed that his father belonged to the same society, and that Democratic presidential candidate John F Kerry also belonged to Skull and Bones. The very idea that, in 2004, the presidential election was a choice between two Bonesmen never seem to make the headlines in America even when it was shown that Skull and Bones membership is quite small (only 15 new members are initiated every year), very select, and depends upon a strenuous enforcement of the rules of secrecy and deception. That the two presidential candidates were both members of this small and elite group should have raised warning flags, and didn’t. Yet, at a time when America was embroiled in the Iraq war and in an ostensible “war on terror”–directed against Al Qaeda–our only choices for president with two members of the same secret society.

If that was all, it would be enough. But that’s not all.

In 1983, the year after Skull and Bones was founded, another secret society was formed, this time at Union College in New York. This one was called Psi Upsilon, and was formed by seven students who signed a pact stating, “we, the undersigned, having determined to form a secret society, and having some conversation on the subject, do now and hereby pledge our sacred honors that we will keep all that has been done and said in most profound secret.”

Psi Upsion spread to many universities across America and even abroad. Its second, or Beta, chapter was founded at Yale University in 1840 and became known as the Fence Club in 1934.

In 1960, both Porter Goss, the George W. Bush-appointed director of the CIA–and John Negroponte, the Bush-appointed intelligence chief–were members of the Fence Club, as was John Kerry, a Bonesman.

Porter Goss was also a member of the super-secret order of Book and Snake, a seemingly associated society of Skull and Bones. The same year Goss joined Book and Snake he also joined yet another secret society: the CIA.

And let us not forget still another member of the Bush Dynasty, William Henry Trotter (Bucky) Bush, brother of former CIA director and president, George Herbert Walker Bush. William Bush was also a member of the fence club in 1960, along with Porter Goss and John Negroponte.

So, what do we have?

We have George Herbert Walker Bush, George W. Bush, William Henry Bush, John F Kerry, Porter Goss, and John Negroponte all members of secret societies at Yale University. And let’s not forget Prescott Bush, who was one of the directors of the Union Banking Corporation that was shut down by the US government in 1942 when it discovered that Bush and his partner, E Roland Harriman, were “trading with the enemy”: i.e., the Nazis. Prescott Bush was another member of Skull and Bones.

That’s two presidents, one presidential contender, two CIA directors, and an intelligence czar who are all fellow-travelers in the world of rituals and sworn oaths, secrecy and deception, trained since their late adolescence and early adulthood In the environment of privilege and control....."

Ed Jewett
07-06-2011, 06:55 PM
The American citizen has a right to understand who it is that leads this nation, and why the titular leaders have backgrounds that are "off limits to discussion". Who is it that is so powerful that they can call on entire government paramilitary capabilities as their protectors, guards, servants and agents? Well, we can find out when we look into the research (continuously suppressed) that has been done on that matter for almost 100 years now. [EJ]




“Secret political organizations can be–and have been–extremely dangerous to the social health and constitutional vitality of a society. In a truly free society the exercise of political power must always be open and known.

Moreover, organizations devoted to violent overthrow of political structures have always, by necessity, been secret organizations. Communist revolutionary cells are an obvious example. In fact, such revolutionary organizations could only function of their existence was secret.

In brief, secrecy in matters political is historically associated with coercion. Furthermore, the existence of secrecy and organizations with political ambitions or with a history of political action is always suspect. Freedom is always associated with open political action and discussion while coercion is always associated with secrecy.… Secrecy attracts attention. Secrecy creates suspicion of intentions. This in turn generates actions to break the secrecy.…

Skull and Bones is not American of all. It is a branch of a foreign secret society.…

Each member of Skull and Bones (as well as Scroll and Key) has an “inside name” and these names bear a remarkable resemblance to those used by the illuminati ....”

page 185ff

America’s Secret Establishment: an introduction to the order of skull and bones by Antony C Sutton.

Ed Jewett
07-06-2011, 06:57 PM
Scott Peck [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Scott_Peck ] gives a certain definition of the evil:

“the exercise, the use of political power, as a way to impose the will of a person on another by coercion or occult tools to prevent any spiritual development of the human being.”

Peck has invented the concept of a kind of satanic and strategic policy as a weapon to break consciousness in pieces. Satanic worshipers and programmers forced their victims to submit themselves to a system where Good and Evil are equal and ethic does not exist.

Ed Jewett
07-06-2011, 07:00 PM
Peter Levenda Sinister Forces: a grimoire of American political witchcraft (Book 1: The Nine), TrineDay 2005] writes of many of the “wandering bishops”, those strange characters who seek consecration in unorthodox congregations and churches, sometimes created for them or by them.

One such individual was David Ferrie, whom we meet in many roles and books associated with the Kennedy assassination and in the tale of “Dr. Mary’s Monkey”.

“And what do we make of the strange association of David Ferrie -- pilot, investigator, consecrated bishop, acquaintance of Lee Oswald, performer of black masses–with Guy Banister, former ONI, former FBI, former Hunter of UFOs? And of Fred Crisman, author of the Maury Island affair, former OSS, former CIA, reputed friend of Clay Shaw? UFOs and Satanists, aliens and archbishops. Spies and soothsayers. Magicians… and Manchurian candidates.”

And then there is the case of Bishop Earl Anglin Lawrence James, excommunicated from the old Roman Catholic Church in 1945, “Honorary Atty. Gen.” of the State of Louisiana, and recipient of the Eloy Alfaro Grand Cross for his “extraordinary achievements and accomplishments… within the framework of the services rendered by him to his fellow human beings and to the cause of international peace” in a ceremony at the Hotel Astor whose master of ceremonies was a psychiatrist; prior recipients of the same award were Pres. Eisenhower, Pres. Truman, Pres. Hoover, Sen. Lyndon Johnson, Governors Rockefeller and Averell Harriman, Generals MacArthur, Crittenberger, Devers, and another wandering bishop, the Rght Rev. Benjamin Eckhardt of Canada.

“At all of this to espionage activities and you have a perfect fruit salad of paranoia, power and prestige, mixing secret government work with secret rituals and the manipulation of those sinister forces we have been studying. The secret handshake of the cult and the secret code of the intelligence agency: they both invoke the power relationships that are beyond the reach of the ordinary human being. The cultist believes he can summon the very hounds of hell to his aid; the intelligence agent can overthrow government, terminate a politician, or call in an airstrike. Either way, the gates of the underworld are opened.”

Levenda tops his ”perfect fruit salad” by noting that Dr. James Monroe, a former Air Force officer and MK-Ultra project leader in brainwashing studies, in charge of the funds of the Human Ecology Society, informed Dr. Ewen Cameron, after hearing the news of the assassination of Kennedy, that the CIA sponsorship of his program was terminated.

Lauren Johnson
07-08-2011, 11:50 PM
[QUOTE=Lauren Johnson;40619]EJ: Why are you including the Aquarian Gospel etc. in your reading list?




#1) It represents to me a personal challenge in knowing my own beliefs and spirituality, and in sensing the tug and pull of 'the twins of God and politics' in American culture. I was baptized a Presbyterian. After my mother died five days after I was born, my nanny was a Mennonite. I was sent to a Methodist Sunday School by my step-mother, and to a Congregational church by my parents in a new locale. I married a Catholic in a Congregational and, later, Catholic ceremony. My father disowned me. Eight years later, we divorced. My father disowned me again. I met and married a lapsed Catholic. I had already seen and borne witness to the hypocrisies of organized religion. I begun to study Taoism, then a bit of Buddhism, and then expanded a library on religion and spirituality to 80 volumes. And then, suddenly, available through a regular outlet for discounted books while I read the other noted material, was this "gospel" that theoretically filled in the missing years in Jesus' history when he studied with masters from other faiths. Personally, I revere Jesus, and have shared with my children a book limited only to His own words from the Bible. I also find a great deal of resonance in Gaffney's book. Even the Aquarian Gospel -- like a good juicy hunk of propagandistic disinformation -- is appealing and parallels much in the Bible (with errors noted by others). But there's that tug and pull again... I remain in the church as a Lutheran in part because I have concluded there is no escaping hypocrisy. I prefer a community of hypocrites to none. Thanks for you brief bio. The key is that we share and recognize our hypocrisy.


#2) I had a strange encounter (actually, a complete lack of contact) with an individual I met during an extended interaction years ago who claimed to be a "Disciple in Christ"-in-training and whose secretive motives and controlling actions regarding a third individual of mutual acquaintance I found to be highly questionable and suspect. This concurrence had connections and correlations to some of the text in Levenda's "Sinister Forces" and some of the additional background of the mutual acquaintance.I have ordered the first two vols of Sinister Forces. What the hell? Why not? I guess I feel like pissing off Seamus.




And there is the role of Allen Dulles, in his first foreign posting, in the "outing" of [I]Protocols.Mind saying a little more?



The issue comes to roost for me in the matter of 'direct access to God' and mind control, having had -- and documented -- a number of personal epiphanies, and based on my reading, reflection and meditation, and my personal reading in issues of mind control. As I live, and reflect on Christ, and other masters and methods of mastery, I am interested in understanding this matter of self, God, and society and in placing myself in correct relationship to them. Along the lines of the direct contact with God, you might appreciate The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes. I don't know exactly why, but you might enjoy The Conquest of America by Tzvetan Todorov. He distinguishes religious murder (sacrifice) from massacre (atheistic murder). The birth of modernity is wrapped up in the latter. "...The conquistadors obeyed the rule of Ivan Karamazov: "everything is permitted." Far from the central government, far from royal law, all prohibitions give way, the social link, already loosened, snaps, revealing not a primitive nature, the beast sleeping in each of us, but a modern being, one with a great future in fact, restrained by no morality and inflicting death because and when he pleases." (p. 145)

Ed Jewett
07-09-2011, 03:16 AM
[QUOTE=Lauren Johnson;40619]EJ: Why are you including the Aquarian Gospel etc. in your reading list?


#1) ... a personal challenge in knowing my own beliefs and spirituality....

I remain in the church as a Lutheran in part because I have concluded there is no escaping hypocrisy. I prefer a community of hypocrites to none. Thanks for you brief bio. The key is that we share and recognize our hypocrisy.

I have ordered the first two vols of Sinister Forces. What the hell? Why not? I guess I feel like pissing off Seamus.



The issue comes to roost for me....

Along the lines of the direct contact with God, you might appreciate The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes. I don't know exactly why, but you might enjoy The Conquest of America by Tzvetan Todorov. He distinguishes religious murder (sacrifice) from massacre (atheistic murder). The birth of modernity is wrapped up in the latter. "...The conquistadors obeyed the rule of Ivan Karamazov: "everything is permitted." Far from the central government, far from royal law, all prohibitions give way, the social link, already loosened, snaps, revealing not a primitive nature, the beast sleeping in each of us, but a modern being, one with a great future in fact, restrained by no morality and inflicting death because and when he pleases." (p. 145)

Fascinating response, and thank you for it.

I shall make note of the two books you mention and look for them in good time. The idea of "everything is permitted, et al" resonates with the lowest-common-denominator theme of the secret societies "the ends justify the means". There is one variant, however, from Karamazov, it would seem, and that it this: rather than 'far from government', the idea that everything is permitted seems to have become invested in government here in the US, and there are many references and parallels to the role of secret societies inside government (especially its intelligence apparati).

in re: Sinister Forces, Volumes One and Three are where the most bang for the buck lie. Two is somehow weaker.

I share your conclusion that there is no escaping hypocrisy, save perhaps by worshipping alone and watching carefully for my own hypocrisy.

And there is the role of Allen Dulles, in his first foreign posting, in the "outing" of Protocols.


Mind saying a little more?


In re: the matter of Allen Dulles:

The book: http://www.amazon.com/Gentleman-Spy-Life-Allen-Dulles/dp/1558490442

The author: Peter Grose is an editor and specialist on the history of intelligence. Grose was an editor for the New York Times and Foreign Affairs. He held a position [Former Associate, International Security Program, 2004–2010; Former Research Fellow, International Security Program, 1997–2004] at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, where he completed his historical work on international insurance and published a book on deregulation of the global electricity industry, Power to People. Other works by Grose include Operation Rollback: America's Secret War Behind the Iron Curtain.

The author’s papers: The Peter Grose Papers document Grose's research on Allen Dulles and the Soviet Union. The papers include writings, subject files consisting of research notes and photocopied sources, as well as a small number of photographs. Of note is the Central Intelligence Agency's declassified history of Allen Dulles's tenure at the CIA.

http://diglib.princeton.edu/ead/getEad?eadid=MC227&kw=

See also “The Council on Foreign Relations from 1921 to 1996” by
PETER GROSE: http://www.cfr.org/about/history/cfr/

The prologue of the book “Gentleman Spy” tells the tale of the new third secretary of the American Embassy, Allen Welsh Dulles, and his appearance in mourning overcoat (his first assignment for the government of the United States) at the church of St. Stephen’s in November 1916 for the solemn funeral ceremony of Franz Josef I. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Joseph_I_of_Austria ] The last paragraph of the prologue:

“Deception as a way of life was strange to a young man reared in the manse of a Presbyterian minister. But over a long life in the chancelleries and war rooms of powerful nations, the reality grew upon him that the means for shaping the world’s destiny might be manifest – or they might be covert.”

His first diplomatic post, under Frederic Penfield, “involved processing passport applications, scrutinizing visa qualifications, visiting the countries nationals in jail (not to be considered but to ascertain that legal procedures were being employed and the State Department protected against congressional or public outcries), and making burial arrangements for American citizens who died in the area.… Settling in, Alan succumbed to what the venerable Talleyrand considered the supreme vice of diplomacy, an excess of zeal. In trying to sort out the transnational finances of the Rev. Francis Xavier Gneilinsky of St. Louis, working at a parish in Austria, Alan sent priest a copy of an explanatory telegram that has come from Washington. An embassy superior properly chastised the novice third secretary: “don’t transmit copies of official documents to private persons.” The correct procedure was to retype in paraphrase. When Alan then sheepishly asked the priest to return the offending document, it was brought to the embassy by hand and placed in an envelope at the reception desk. Allen’s bureaucratic tormentor noticed that the envelope had the embassy seal; Allen was sharply censured for permitting an outsider to use official stationary.”

snip

“Allen’s first covert action was a fiasco. It started at [the home of his friend, a noted expatriate biologist, Henry Haviland Field] and the equally congenial residence in Geneva of George D Herron, another American academic, a friend of Pres. Wilson’s. Both of these academics to visitors from the central powers–Germans, Austrians, and Hungarians–who maintained the fiction that day, like their “old American friends,” were mere private citizens with no official status. The protestations were necessary, early in 1918 several of these cutouts came to Switzerland on an extremely sensitive mission: Emperor Karl of Austria, the recent successor to Franz Joseph, wanted to make a separate peace with United States.… Alan arranged a meeting between Heron and Julius Meinl, who then asked that a responsible American receive an important visitor from Vienna. In the game of go-between’s, cut-outs serve other cut-outs, layer upon layer. Allen remembered the name of the important Austrian from the guest lists at [his grandfather’s home*] before the war; Heinrich Lammasch, scholar of international law, boyhood tutor to Emperor Karl, a leading Viennese liberal who was opposed to the strong pro-German influence upon the Habsburg Empire. A “casual” meeting between Herron and Lammasch was set up for February 2 at a secluded château outside Bern owned by a self-exiled German industrialist.

Allen [was] naïve and imagining that [this] emerging scheme could be kept secret… [since] efforts at security were primitive.… The notion of a separate peace between the United States and Austria-Hungary were stillborn.… Alan Wood have occasion to use the same tools, cut outs upon cutouts, two decades later under the same cover of Swiss neutrality. The next time he would be more successful but criticized even more for the moral ambiguities of secret bargaining between forces of war.”

In the summer of 1918, “Allen was devising a novel plan, and he made bold to present it in a personal letter to Uncle Bert [Secretary of State Robert Lansing]… Why not assemble a group of scholars to study “the problems of nationalities and his term and where justice lies in the various claims of the European races and nations?” Allen wrote. He could not have known how grimly his innocent suggestion would be received. To his credit, Lansing had already realized that the ideas his president was expounding for the future world order were not based on adequate knowledge.… Independently of the Secretary of State, and surely without knowledge of Allen’s modest proposal, Wilson assigned to the academic community that task of assembling proposals for the postwar settlement, under the coordination of his trusted aide, Col. Edward M House.” One of them, the group’s secretary and thus a central recruiter and organizer, was Walter Lippmann. Lippman however tired of the sterile isolation of the academic group and jumped at the offer to become an Army intelligence officer. “From a base in Paris he sought out American officials who might help them, [who might be] sympathetic to [his] ideas for distributing propaganda among the newly liberated peoples of central Europe.… No time elapsed before Lippman’s sharp eyes noted the reports of Allen Dulles and his colleagues in Bern on the collapse of the central powers; these dispatches stood out for the clarity and insight that the open brackets academic inquiry] was always seeking. “In Bern, a group of the very best young men in the diplomatic service did contrive to act as a source of information.” Lippmann resolved to keep his eye on Dulles.

With the end of the war in sight, though before the front lines had gone quiet, Col. House himself sailed for Europe, under destroyer escort, as Pres. Wilson’s advanced man in organizing the peace settlement. His first meetings in Paris with Lippman and other Americans persuaded House that the collection of current intelligence was an urgent priority; if the conventional diplomats had little interest in pursuing it, the task certainly could not be left to the scholars… who were far from the scene. House’s telegram, “Secret for the president and Secretary of State,” on November 8, three days before the armistice, marked the end of the innocence shown by the Army Chief of Staff the year before and open up a new era in American intelligence.

“We are getting a massive misinformation respecting present conditions in Austria, Bohemia and the Ukraine, practically all of which is being provided by the English, French and Italians. We have no American sources of information. The reports received are… colored by the self-interest of the persons furnishing them. I regarded as exceedingly important that we send it once to these countries agents who will be in a position to furnish us with accurate and unbiased information… this matter I believe is most urgent.”

The problem was simple for House to state, but the presidential adviser’s musings posed more problems than he had envisaged. In 1918 the United States government had no “agents.” [The] military intelligence officers were not up to the job of political analysis; the diplomats, who were, spurned clandestine line intelligence work as unseemly. And, once the right individuals were found to serve as agents, should they travel and interview as government officials or under some innocuous cover? What level of personal risk would be acceptable and necessary for the tasks of gathering intelligence?

An answer readily presented itself, at least two Col. House’s satisfaction.… Wilson had named Herbert Hoover, a strong-willed mining engineer from Iowa, to direct postwar relief and rehabilitation efforts in the reverie societies of central Europe. Then 44 years old, Hoover had built a spectacular reputation for getting difficult jobs done during his wartime relief service in Belgium. House cornered Hoover, passing through Paris, and learned of his plan to send relief teams across central Europe. House conceived the idea, though he did not share it with Hoover, of insinuating intelligence agents, complete with code clerks, stenographers, and interpreters, into those relief teams. It was an ingenious idea, novel for the time, and fraught with sensitive aspects that would raise practical, ethical, and bureaucratic hackles.”



In Paris in 1919, after the printed draft of the peace treaty had been prepared and presented, after the formal signing ceremony at Versailles, “with the senior diplomats gone, their juniors assumed even greater responsibility for the lingering problems of a Europe reborn. Once again Alan found himself concerned with the stateless Jewish population. Circulating clandestinely through the diplomatic efforts of Paris was a mysterious tract called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, purporting to expose a Jewish plot to rule the world, and some serious people took the matter seriously. Allen argued before conference committees against the view that the Jews deserved national rights just like other ethnic minorities. “If we endeavor to set up [the Jews] up as a privileged community,” he asserted, “they will be subject to oppression on the part of the people who are not ready for so radically change.”

Posted to Berlin after the war, another new friend for Dulles during this period “had a different and more direct impact on Allen’s later life. Gerhart von Schulze-Gaevernitz was a respected backbencher in the Weimar coalition. and eminent professor of economics at Freiburg, he was intimately connected in the financial and industrial circles of both Britain and Germany; even during the war he had risked outspoken criticism of the kaiser’s foreign policies. In his world vision he was a protégé of Cecil Rhodes: Germany, Britain, and the United States, destined to global economic leadership, needed to find a basis for political cooperation so as to “preserve the dominance of Western European civilization.” The wisdom of aging intellectuals seem to appeal to Allen. He spent hours discussing the world of ideas and politics with the old professor, just as he had with Henry Haviland Field in Bern. Von Schulze-Gaevernitz too had a son whom he thought Allen might find congenial, but young Gero was off at university preparing for a career in international banking, so they did not need at this time.” [During World War Two, Gero traveled frequently between Switzerland and Germany where he had many connections and later served as the host at his own villa for secret meetings between Dulles and Karl Wullf and other Nazi SS generals during Operation Sunrise. His papers are at the Hoover Institution archives at Stanford.] [See http://books.google.com/books?id=WQSa8ykpSG0C&pg=PA325&lpg=PA325&dq=Gero+von+Schulze-Gaevernitz&source=bl&ots=VZ5_VT9egP&sig=hAyEvLO3SMBDOwFxwNflBZRB0F0&hl=en&ei=nZ_nTbanO8rl0QHbhpnKDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFcQ6AEwCTgU#v=onepage&q&f=false ] [US Intelligence and the Nazis, by Breitman, Goda, Naftali and Wolfe http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Intelligence-Nazis-Richard-Breitman/dp/product-description/0521852684 ]

“ Almost overlooked in Allen’s experience of the revolution was the fact that his brother Foster happened to be traveling throughout Germany during the week of the Kapp putsch in pursuit of investment opportunities for Sullivan and Cromwell’s clients.… At the height of the tension, Foster went off to meet a young economist who was full of ideas to attract American financial support for the German future. His name was Dr. Hjalmar Schact [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjalmar_Schacht ], and from that encounter grew a relationship between American investors in German industry that endured well into the 1930s.... “

In 1920, after he returned home to Mary Martha Clover Todd, Dulles returned with his new wife on the Orient express to Constantinople for his new posting to a nation in transition from the former Ottoman Empire and, at that time, under the direct rule of the victorious allies.

“Constantinople had become the Eastern [I]entrepot [ port, city, or other center to which goods are brought for import and export] for the ruins of old Russia, with tens of thousands of refugees from the Bolshevik revolution and from the civil war raging in the newly independent states of the Caucasus to the North, Georgia and Armenia..... The month before Allen and Clover arrived, the refugee population was swollen with the arrival of the defeated Cossack Army of Baron Gen. Peter Nikolayevich Wrangel, one of the last of the White armies to hold out against the Bolshevik advances.…” Clover and her new friend Olga Wrangel, the general’s wife, “brought solace to the refugee camps on Gallipoli – clothing, cigarettes, and Russian magazines. These expeditions caused no small alarm at the High Commission; the ranking officers pleaded with the new diplomatic secretaries wife to enlist a chauffeur-driven official car for her errands of mercy–precisely the display that Clover Todd Dulles did not want.”

“Constantinople was entirely isolated from direct contact with Soviet Russia”, Allen cabled Washington after the fall of Tiflis (Tbilsi), “ as no ships have arrived from Bolshevik ports for days, and contact to Georgia and Armenia was now broken.” Then he reported a singular discovery, that wireless radio communications between Moscow and Bolshevik outposts could be intercepted by shortwave receivers on Adm. Bristol’s flagship in the sea of Marmara. Allen was quick to exploit this novel intelligence source, and over the next months he supplied Washington with detailed information about the Bolsheviks in Russia and the Caucasus, including their designs on the capitals of Europe and even South America. This was an innovative means of intelligence collection, astonishing (and not a little unsettling) to conventional styles of diplomatic reporting. ... Between shortwave traffic and General Wrangel’s own intelligence nets, he pieced together a long Bolshevik report sent secretly to the Kremlin about how the world could be prepared for revolution. On July 2 he transmitted to Washington the text of a speech delivered at a Moscow party meeting. He pulled off the air a dispatch from the Bolshevik agent in the Western Hemisphere, reporting him glowing tones the “possibility of arousing a communist movement in South America.”…[and, it is noted later, he was unafraid of and perhaps accustomed to taking donkey rides up the steep cliffs of the mountain on the island of Prinkipo in the sea of Marmara to the old Monastery of St. George.]

“One spring day in 1921, a prominent member of the Russian émigré community approached Philip Graves [the Constantinople correspondent of the Times of London] with a puzzling book. The Russian had purchased it several months before as part of a collection from a former officer of the czar's political police, the Okhrana. Browsing through his new acquisitions, this learned Russian had noticed something strange about one volume in French; its contents reminded him of the mysterious anti-Semitic tract The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which purported to show how leading Jews of the world were staking out a plan to seize power from secular governments for their own profit. The title page had been torn out of the French book; there was no evidence of the author or date of publication. But as the Russian intellectual compared the texts, Graves told Allen, he confirmed that the tattered French book and The Protocols tracked closely. If the French publication could be shown to predate The Protocols, the anti-Semitic tract would be exposed as plagiary.

Allen understood immediately what Graves was telling him; clandestine copies of The Protocols had circulated at the Peace Conference in 1919. What remained unknown to the diplomats in Paris was the provenance of this explosive document, who the ominous conspirators were, and when the alleged plot had been–or would be–launched. The year before Graves and Alan talked, the times had taken the specter of a world Jewish conspiracy seriously enough to ask, “Have we been struggling these tragic years to blow up and extirpate the secret organization of German world dominion only to find it beneath him at it another, more dangerous because more secret? Have we escaped a “Pax Germanica” only to fall into a “Pax Judaica”?” “The fact of the plagiarism has now been conclusively established,” declared the times, “and the legend may be allowed to pass into oblivion.”

Allen was not so confident that the matter would disappear; the deep-seated anti-Semitic impulses that made people inclined to believe such a fanciful document as The Protocols would not be assuaged merely by newspaper articles. With Graves ‘ help, he prepared his own dispatch to the State Department, asking that the United States government join in denouncing the anti-Semitic myth. Allen informed Washington of two points that Graves had omitted from his reports to the times. First, the anonymous Russian gentleman who originally spotted the evidence had a particular motive for approaching the great British newspaper: not himself a Jew, but long troubled by the anti-Semitism of czarist politics, he believed that the disclosure would carry more conviction if it emerged from an impeccable “Christian” source. Had it come out as a result of investigations then underway by Jewish organizations, it might have been dismissed as self-serving. Second, as a poignant footnote to the whole saga, the Russian refused to accept any payment beyond the trivial part purchase of a secondhand book, even after the importance of his discovery became known. Learning of the refugee’s poverty, The Times attempted to compensate him properly; he was finally prevailed upon to accept a “loan” of several hundred pounds, and the newspaper never asked for repayment.

How to persuade Washington to act on what he suspected the diplomatic establishment would consider an irrelevant parochial matter? Allen first called attention to The Times’s published articles. The American Embassy in London weighed in by dispatching to the State Department a specially reprinted collection of the Graves articles, more impressive than cuttings from a newspaper. Allen then supplied his additional information and asked the department to consult the Library of Congress, where the original French volume might be found, and perhaps other evidence. If all this were made public by the United States government, it would add weight to the disclosure’s of a British newspaper.

Allen’s main dispatch read reached Washington on September 22, and the London reprint arrived two weeks later. Both made the rounds of the relevant divisions–Near Eastern affairs, Western European affairs, Russian affairs, and finally the office of the undersecretary of state. The newspaper articles were promptly filed; Allen’s request that the State Department help in denouncing it as anti-Semitic fraud languished in the various offices for no less than seven months. When that dispatch, too, was finally sent to the files, on May 23, 1922, there was no notation that anyone in the Department of State had seen fit to take any action on the matter.”


So here you have a fellow who was instrumentally involved, in the course of his career...

* as a corporate lawyer at Sullivan and Cromwell [“Sullivan and Cromwell thrived on its cartels and collusion with the new Nazi regime,” say the firm’s chroniclers]
a director of the J. Henry Schroder bank which financed Hitler [see http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/federal_reserve.shtml];
* intimately tied in to a network of diplomats including his brother, his sister, his uncle, his father and his wife (whose cousin served in Naval Intelligence);
* who handled visa applications in his first formal job;
* who was the first secretary for the Council on Foreign Relations (an outgrowth of the Illuminati-driven Rhodes’ circles) in 1927;
* who worked with “Wild Bill” Donovan at the office of the Coordinator of Information which was set up in Room 3603 of Rockefeller Center and who, later, with the assistance of Frank Wisner and others helped overthrow the governments of Guatemala for his legal clients and Iran for his Rockefeller interests (his brother was related by marriage);
* who has been described "as one of the worst traitors in American history, an economic version of Benedict Arnold";
* who collaborated on two books to defuse American isolationism “in an increasingly interdependent international system”;
* assisted in the “de-Nazification” of Germany;
* played an active role in the formulation of the legislation that became the National Security Act of 1947 [whose organizations have been noticeably involved in manufacturing provenance out of thin air (alchemy)]; and
* personally oversaw Operation Mockingbird, the CIA’s campaign to infiltrate and influence the media
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird ].

And who, while immersed in the intrigues of global intelligence and diplomacy at the crossroads of Bolshevism and the world of European secret societies, had an anonymous source get his material printed (for a fee) to cover the tracks of the very people with whom he continued to do business before and during the war (Wall Street, Hitler’s bank, the Bank of International Settlements, the elite wealthy players who were the hidden generation of the Rothschild interests) by suggesting that the document/satire/plagiarism of a plan for global domination was shown to be false.

And the agency he created continues to play with them.

“In a secretly classified memo dated 12/9/65, the agency discusses manipulating the gold market with central banks and the need for more “liquidity” because of the dollar’s perceived weakness at the time.) Says the memo (see pages 124-125) “our strategy is to supplement gold and dollars with a new international asset, special drawing rights (SDR).” [Crisis By Design: The Untold Story of the Global Financial Coup and What You Can Do About It, written by John Truman Wolfe, published by Roberts Ross Publishing of Englewood Colorado and Los Angeles California.]

Jan Klimkowski
07-09-2011, 08:05 AM
Levenda tops his ”perfect fruit salad” by noting that Dr. James Monroe, a former Air Force officer and MK-Ultra project leader in brainwashing studies, in charge of the funds of the Human Ecology Society, informed Dr. Ewen Cameron, after hearing the news of the assassination of Kennedy, that the CIA sponsorship of his program was terminated.

The sources given by Peter Levenda for that significant story told on p288 of Sinister Forces, Vol 1, are John Marks' Search for the Manchurian Candidate and Gordon Thomas' Journey Into Madness.

Ed Jewett
07-09-2011, 05:45 PM
Levenda tops his ”perfect fruit salad” by noting that Dr. James Monroe, a former Air Force officer and MK-Ultra project leader in brainwashing studies, in charge of the funds of the Human Ecology Society, informed Dr. Ewen Cameron, after hearing the news of the assassination of Kennedy, that the CIA sponsorship of his program was terminated.

The sources given by Peter Levenda for that significant story told on p288 of Sinister Forces, Vol 1, are John Marks' Search for the Manchurian Candidate and Gordon Thomas' Journey Into Madness.

Indeed. And I have all three of those books on my bookshelf. I haven't read Marks yet, but Journey Into Madness was consumed and heavily annotated right after the first volume of the trilogy and Unholy Alliance.

Jan, I am currently deep into Alex Constantine's twins, Psychic Dictatorship and Virtual Government. Have you read them? What is your opinion [others may chime in as well] of the author's research acumen, veracity and validity?

Jan Klimkowski
07-09-2011, 06:03 PM
Jan, I am currently deep into Alex Constantine's twins, Psychic Dictatorship and Virtual Government. Have you read them? What is your opinion [others may chime in as well] of the author's research acumen, veracity and validity?

Alex Constantine is a Brussell Sprout.

With everything that implies.

Magda Hassan
07-10-2011, 02:48 AM
One of the researchers nurtured by the late great Mae Brussell.

Jan Klimkowski
07-10-2011, 07:41 AM
One of the researchers nurtured by the late great Mae Brussell.

Yes.

And sharing the strengths and weaknesses of Mae Brussell's investigative Method.

Ed Jewett
07-10-2011, 05:05 PM
After Jan's comment yesterday, I ddi a quick Google on "Brussell Sprouts", grasped the concept, and printed a speech given at a Rotary club (?!) by one Virginia McCullough to be read when I got back. (Virginia is Mae's archivist? Do I have that right?) (McCullough herself has a bit of notoriety for dogging Rachel Begley from discussion board to discussion board.)

I read it. And I got more of an understanding about a woman who was, in my own description, a "hoarder" of files, articles, books, minutiae, etc.

So I gather that that was her strength, the collection part, (although her indexing of the 22 volumes of the Warren Commission was a major contribution), but I suppose that her weakness was in the fact that her analysis was less formidable or detailed or deep.

Is that accurate? And does that translate or apply equally to Constantine?

Ed Jewett
07-10-2011, 05:14 PM
“… Secrecy begets paranoia; the need to seek for hidden answers and conspiracies behind everyday events develops when one social group is suppressed, ostracized or in some other way shoved to the sidelines and no longer “in the loop” of the dominant party, religion, or culture. When one does not know what the other knows–or what the other is doing, or discussing–then speculation leads to suspicion, which can color an entire belief system. This hard-wired paranoia of the Ismaili’s –and especially of the Nizari sect which became known in the West as the Assassins–contributed to the creation of an intelligence organization unparalleled in the East, and which in turn led to the creation of what were probably the world’s first “terrorists.” [See The Assassins: a radical sect in Islam, by Bernard Lewis, Oxford University Press, New York 1967, page 12.] The Nizaris developed a strategy of “precautionary dissimulation of one’s true religious belief in the face of danger” –

Chapter 12 in Sinister Forces (Book Two) on “The Roots of Terrorism”

“We must spend some time with the Jonestown episode because it pulls together several disparate scarlet threads in the tapestry of politics, drugs, intelligence agencies, religion, mind control, and murder.”

Chapter 13 in Sinister Forces (Book Two) on “Heart of Darkness”

Jan Klimkowski
07-10-2011, 06:25 PM
After Jan's comment yesterday, I ddi a quick Google on "Brussell Sprouts", grasped the concept, and printed a speech given at a Rotary club (?!) by one Virginia McCullough to be read when I got back. (Virginia is Mae's archivist? Do I have that right?) (McCullough herself has a bit of notoriety for dogging Rachel Begley from discussion board to discussion board.)


The Virginia McCullough "Brussell Sprouts" speech can be read here (http://www.newsmakingnews.com/vm,rotary6,18,03.htm).



I read it. And I got more of an understanding about a woman who was, in my own description, a "hoarder" of files, articles, books, minutiae, etc.

So I gather that that was her strength, the collection part, (although her indexing of the 22 volumes of the Warren Commission was a major contribution), but I suppose that her weakness was in the fact that her analysis was less formidable or detailed or deep.


Mae Brussell, daughter of the head rabbi of LA, is like a gnostic seer out of a Borges story.

She collects scraps, fragments, words, names, buried deep inside newspapers and magazines and weighty leather tomes and glossy throwaway trash..... she makes discoveries which pulse and resonate and shed light on worldly matters..... spilling secrets which make the geopoliticians shiver and shudder..... her voice droning into the ethereal shadows, lingering like mist.... Mae's kabbalistic visions tap tap tapping into the collective unconscious.....

Mae's insights need to be constantly tested against new facts, fresh revelations.

A considerable number continue to resonate, indeed some pulse with increased power.

I would certainly not categorize Mae Brussell's analysis as "less formidable or detailed or deep" than that of other researchers.

Rather I always consider it on its own ontological terms.



Is that accurate? And does that translate or apply equally to Constantine?

Alex has done much fine work, especially given what he describes as his "harrassment".

Ed Jewett
07-11-2011, 12:54 AM
The work of a "sprout" of a gnostic seer with kabbalistic visions would seem to be appropriate for a thread on secret societies.

Constantinian work always seems to be backed up with a footnote, a reference, an article, a book (sometimes in multiples) and occasionally with notes from interviews with people whose names have to be hidden and which are now stuffed in a locked file cabinet drawer somewhere in an underground cavern. It's not that I've never been exposed to some of the topics covered, but there are things I've read which seem -- even years after the publication date -- as though they should be announced from the tops of small buildings with high-powered megaphones.

But then I have to wonder if they aren't sign posts pointing in the wrong direction a la Operation Greif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Greif).

Ed Jewett
07-24-2011, 05:25 PM
"We cannot begin to heal until we have identified the disease; we cannot identify the disease until we have studied the anatomy of the body politic. Freud, in order to understand the workings of the human mind, focused on its pathology. We, in order to understand America–and America’s place in the world–must do the same. We must plumb the depths of the American psyche, the American unconscious, and dredge up whatever we find before it’s too late. How late is it? Listen in the middle of the night. Turn off the television, the radio, the CD player, the computer. Unplug the telephone. Turn off the lights. What do you hear?"

http://sinisterforces.info/SF1_samples_text/SF1b.htm



But, given recent events as well as past ones, this is not just America's problem.


The disease has been identified.



http://www.awakeninthedream.com/wetiko/cover.jpg


http://www.awakeninthedream.com/



"... I introduce the idea that from the dawn of human history our species has fallen prey to a collective psychosis which I call malignant egophrenia. Speaking about this very same psychic epidemic, Forbes writes, “For several thousands of years human beings have suffered from a plague, a disease worse than leprosy, a sickness worse than malaria, a malady much more terrible than smallpox.” Indigenous people have been tracking the same ‘psychic’ virus that I call malignant egophrenia for many centuries and calling it ‘wetiko,’ a Cree term which refers to a diabolically wicked person or spirit who terrorizes others. Professor Forbes, who was one of the founders of the Native American movement during the early sixties, says, “Tragically, the history of the world for the past 2,000 years is, in great part, the story of the epidemiology of the wetiko disease.” Wetiko/malignant egophrenia is a ‘psychosis’ in the true sense of the word as being a ‘sickness of the soul or spirit.’ Though calling it by different names, Forbes and I are both pointing at the same illness of the psyche, soul and spirit that has been at the root of humanity’s inhumanity to itself. Read more...

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/wetiko/

Ed Jewett
07-31-2011, 05:20 AM
I stumbled across this old column by Jeff Wells up at Rigorous Intuition:

THURSDAY, AUGUST 18, 2005

Nine Angles of Separation

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/08/nine-angles-of-separation.html

Read the comments too....

Wayne Andrews
08-08-2011, 03:17 AM
First there is no "antichrist" nature in any Masonic vow, ritual or teaching. There is no reference to Lucifer in any vow, ritual or teaching. In the lecture, there are references to the Kabbalah; the ancient, and legitimate, mystical tradition of Judaism. And there are references to the ancient Vedas of India. One of the sources you cite comes from Rev. Jonathan Blanchard's "Scottish Rite Masonry Illustrated" (1887-1888). Blanchard's outdated book was actually an exposure of Cerneauism, an illegitimate pseudo-Masonic organization founded by Joseph Cerneau and chiefly active during the 1800's. Oaths of fealty and other references to the Cerneau "Supreme Council" appear throughout Blanchard's exposure. These references would have raised red flags to competent researchers, but anti-Masons conveniently ignore or misunderstand them. They seem satisfied that if something is in print and is negative about Freemasonry, it must be true. Also, Rev. Blanchard was never a Mason, not even a Cerneau Mason, much less a Sovereign Grand Commander. He was an anti-Mason from his youth.

Once you have convinced yourself that Freemasonry is the work of Satan, you are easily duped by the enticing "Luciferian Conspiracy." You can trace the modern usage of this fabrication to Lady Queenborough, Edith Starr Miller, who wrote "Occult Theocracy"in 1933. This is the source of your Order of Mizraim/Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Her work is excerpted and treated as gospel truth. Lady Queenborough found her quotation in the 1894 book by Abel Clarin de la Rive, La Femme et L'Enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerie Universelle ("Woman and Child in Universal Freemasonry"). Mr. de la Rive, like Lady Queenborough, was duped by the hoax; but were willing to believe the worst about Freemasonry. The ultimate source was the pornographer, anti-Mason, anti-Catholic Gabriel Antoine Jogand-Pages, much better known by his pen name Leo Taxil. Taxil publicly confessed his deception in 1897, and his story is widely available for anyone willing to look for truth.

There is one other point I wish to make here. What I find very disturbing is that no one, here, seemed to be bothered by the usage of that infamous lie The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. This insidious, anti-Semitic pamphlet has long since been proven a forgery and lie. Whether it has been the Czarist Okhrana, the Nazis, the Soviets, and now the Arab world; it is continually resurrected. Today, its format uses Zionism as the modern bogeyman. I see that many, here, have bought into the toxic mind-set: "Zionism is is part of the vast conspiracy to control the world." This is sad. I assure you that Zionism is not part of any "deep political" system. Instead, you should be looking at where and who is propogating this venom.

Ed Jewett
08-08-2011, 04:18 AM
Thanks, Wayne, for your contribution, in which I see no links, and no actual references other than a request that I continue my research.

I'll stand on the book I noted above entitled "Wetiko" which doesn't reference Zionism or any protocols.

I have already noted the source of the "hoax" information about the Protocols as being forwarded to the world press in London and New York by none other than Allen Dulles, one of the more trustworthy and noble people we discuss here. That reference is in the book "Gentleman Spy" which I cross-checked with an inter-library loan and posted the text here at DPF, I believe, as well as elsewhere. It is noted by a number of people that one can read the alleged protocols (no matter who wrote them) and see their praxis in the events of the recent years in America and globally.

I am currently reading "The Perfectibilists" from the TrineDay stable of books. A shortage of time prevented me from adding all the pertinent text. Let me rectify that in brief by referring you to the four appendices, in particular the first.


Joint Juridical Deposition of Utzschneider, Grunberger and Cosandey before Elector Karl Theodor, Septemember 9, 1785 (from Barruel's Memoirs, pp. 684-688.

The object of the first degree of Illuminism is at once to train their young men, and to be informed of everything that is going forward by a system of espionage. The Superiors aim at procuring fromt her inferiors diplomatic acts, documents, and original writings. With pleasure they see them commit any treasons or treacherous acts, because they not only tuirn the secrets betrayed to their own advantage, but thereby have it in their power to keep the traitors in a perpetual dread, lest, if they ever showed any signs of stubborness, their malefactions should be made known. Oderint dum metuant, let them hate, provided they fear, is the principle of their government.

The Illuminees from these first degrees are educated in the following principles:

I. The Illuminee who wishes to rise to the highest degree must be free from all religion....

III. The end justifies the means. The welfare of the Order will be a justification for calumnies, poisonings, assassinations, perjuries, treasons, rebellions; in short, for all that the prejudices of men lead them to call crimes.

IV. ... Honor, life, and fortune, all are to be sacrificed to the Superiors.

V. The love of one's prince and of one's country are incompatible with views of an immense extent, with the ultimate ends of the Order, and one must glow with ardour for the attainment of that end.

Emphasis with italics in the original.

Zionism, you say, is not part of any deep political system, but the history of Zionism can be traced and its supporters known and their histories traced as well. Are there any intersections in that back-tracing? Is there a historical intersection with the Illuminati and the Rothschild family? We can see the relevance of the Rothschild family in the important geographies and buildings of the state of Israel. We can see the influence of the Rothschilds in the use of "circles", in the direction and history of centralized banking, and an argument can be made in terms of the influence of that activity on the current economic travails of America that may wash again on the shores of Europe and Asia in the week of 8/8-12/2011.

We could place a wager but my dollar won't be worth much soon.

Zionism in its current day practice can be seen in several modes: (I am in America and see it in terms of the "Zionist" influences in fundamentalist Christianity -- though I doubt the fellow from Palestine would want his name associated with its political theories and actions -- and neo-conservatism (as brought to the public and the world during the administration of George The Younger which was packed with Zionists), and one can see it in terms of the actions of the Israeli government -- especially its right wing -- in Palestine. There is something to be said about 'knowing them by their works'.

In defense of Zion and Zionism and its creature state, how many more brown-skinned people and American soldiers will die? How much trauma and genetic damage will be wrought upon the peoples of the world?

And, it must be further noted, the Order of Skull and Bones, arguably a branch of the Illuminati or some sub-group of it, is laden with people deeply involved in deep politics, the media, espionage, education, and the military and political governance of America brought to a peak (pique?) -- as is well-known -- in 2000 when both Presidential candidates were members who had sworn a prior and over-riding oath such as above and yet refused to publicly discuss the matter.

The one who won took America to war and, under his reign, we saw the most horrific mass murder which it can and has been said and documented involved neo-Conservatives, Israeli entities, Zionist influence, and direction to stampede the US into giving up its rights and heading off to a useless and endless war which helped bring the country close to bankruptcy or totalitarianism.

The ultimate Hegelian choice...

Wayne Andrews
08-08-2011, 05:32 PM
Hello Ed,
Thank you for your very thoughtful response. I would like to make the following comments:
Regarding Allen Dulles: I have no illusions about this man; nor the circle he moved in,(i.e., Morgan, Rockefeller, McCloy, et.al.). These men were probably involved in the JFK assassination/cover-up. There was no love loss between the Anglo Eastern Establishment and the Jews or Zionism. For example, Rockefeller was a Nazi sympathizer and helped to finance I.G. Farben. Also, through his Brown-Harriman bank continued to launder money to the Nazis throughout the war. J.P. Morgan was formally a member of the Episcopal Church, he was essentially an agnostic; THERE WAS NOT A DROP OF JEWISH BLOOD IN HIS VEINS; he was, in fact, a well-known anti-Semite. Nonetheless, anti-Semites view Morgan as an agent of the "House of Rothschild" which was seeking to use the financial crisis of 1896 to gain control of the United States, etc....

Regarding the New Left: their change in attitude toward the Jews began to take place after 1967. Werner Cohn writes in the Journal of Communist Studies:

"After the Arab-Israeli war of 1967, a change took place in ... [the Left's] position concerning Jews. The earlier position saw Jews as one of the oppressed peoples of the world. While the movement has always opposed Zionism, earlier pronouncements routinely coupled this opposition with denunciations of what were seen as anti-Semitic aspects of the Arab nationalist movement."

Cohn continues:

"After 1967, most sections of the ... [Left] began to characterize the Jews of Israel as an 'oppressor nation' and called for the destruction of Israel."

The term OPPRESSOR NATION was a term given by the Left to those powerful Western nations that were IRREVOCABLY tied to capitalism, chief among which was the United States. To the Left, Israel's ties to the United States made it an OPPRESSOR NATION; moreover, all Jews who supported Zionism were considered OPPRESSORS - wherever they might live, in Europe, in North America, in South America, in Africa - wherever! Hence, Zionism became equated to the effort of the United States to extend its EXPLOITATIVE and RUINOUS form of capitalism to the peoples and nations of the Middle East and Central Asia.

Cohn explains:

"Today the enemy is 'American imperialism' of which Zionism is taken to be an appendage."

Plainly, the anti-Zionism of the Left has gradually morphed into anti-Semitism, and so much so that it is difficult any longer to distinguish between the two insofar as the discourse of the Left is concerned. TODAY - WHEN EVERYTHING IS SAID AND DONE - THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO; ANTI-ZIONISM AND ANTI-SEMITISM HAVE COME TO MEAN PRETTY MUCH THE SAME THING - and this is so much the truth that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. could say -
"... You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: WHEN PEOPLE CRITICIZE ZIONISM, THEY MEAN JEWS - this is God's own truth."

NOTE: Interestingly, the anti-Zionism intrinsic to today's Left is THE EXACT SAME anti-Zionism intrinsic to the Right; both the Left and the Right seek to portray the Jews as instruments of a universalist cabal which, as far as left-wingers are concerned, seeks to take over the world in the interests of capitalism; and, as far as right-wingers are concerned, seeks to take over the world in the interests of communism. Sadly, IT SEEMS THAT JEWS GET IT FROM BOTH DIRECTIONS. Right-wing anti-Zionist propaganda often portrays left-wingers who are part of a "Zionist" plot to take over the world in the interests of international communism. Consider the following amusing example: Saul Alinsky, who was Jewish, is portrayed as a member of this plot; but he was an anti-Zionist; the same thing is true of George Soros. What an unbelievable mish-mash; the thinking here is past figuring out.


As if this isn't cazy enough, consider the Christian Defense League (CDL). The CDL is a virulently racist and anti-Semitic group that is now based out of Louisiana and is associated with DAVID DUKE.
Duke is a virulent anti-Semite with a long history of "Jew-Hating." Duke recently addressed the "Review of the Holocaust: Global Vision" conference hosted by Iran's president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Tehran. At the Tehran conference, Duke's institutional affiliation was given as MAUP, a private Ukrainian university with close links to the Iranian regime and the main publisher of anti-Semitic material in Ukraine. In his remarks, listed on the event program as "A Holocaust Enquiry," Duke reiterated his view that Jews control and manipulate governments, politics and media in the Western world. He stated, "I know that Jewish extremists lead my country to catastrophe in the Mideast and elsewhere around the world. I know that the Palestinian people, the Lebanese people, even the American people have been sacrificed on the altar of the Holocaust." As proof that the US State Department is "under thorough control of International Jewry" Duke cited the agency's statement that the Tehran conference was a "disgrace." He also maintained that repeated media references to the event as a "Holocaust denial conference" further demonstrates "Jewish control" of the media. In the course of his comments, Duke covered a wide range of topics, most connected with politics and few having to do with the Holocaust. Topics discussed included the war in Iraq "being fought on behalf of Israel" and the imprisonment in Europe of Holocaust deniers, referred to by Duke as "scholars and researchers."

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ARE "BUYING INTO". This is the putrid swamp and fetid slough out from which today's most popular form of anti-Semitism has emerged.

Ed Jewett
08-08-2011, 11:51 PM
Thanks for the warning, Wayne. I take note, and understand where you are coming from. I hold much of what I read, even the stuff purportedly coming from "the good guys" (where are they, these days? who are they?) at an arms' length. As is often said here, misinformation and disinformation, if not outright prejudice or other form of crap, comes cloaked in useful information. It is damned hard to distinguish which is which. I have two recourses, or approaches.

#1) I go back as far as I can reasonably go, given time and budget, into the original source material. Hence my readings in "The Perfectibilists", Stauffer's "The Bavarian Illuminati in America" (2006), a reprint of "New England and the Bavarian Illuminati" (1918) with a defensive twist, and others I haven't gotten to.

#2) I see what resonates in my own experience as a mind/body/spirit entity, given my library of over 80 book on religion and spirituality, my limited understanding of neuro-cognitive and neuro-immunologic science, etc. I can only be who and what I am and try to improve on it.

There has been discussion here and elsewhere about proper or improved word/term differentiation when discussing Jews, Jewry, Judaism, and Zionism. As I appreciate it, understand it, comprehend it:

#1) an individual's choice (active or passive) of religious belief is unassailable; everyone has a right to believe what they will, and worship what/how they want to; my ancestors left England almost 400 years ago in pursuit of that right;

#2) Jewry is global; much is to be said about trans-global movement, diaspora, etc., but that's not my focus or concern; it is, however, at play in the history of Zionism and Israel; the ethno- component of the religiosity is a deep and rugged subject;

#3) Judaism has multiple components, of which I am no expert; indeed, I am unlearned in terms of differentiating Torah, Talmudism, Conservative, Reform, Liberal, Progressive, etc.;

#4) Zionism is a political movement that some characterize as Jewish. And yet here in the States many Christians, including the Vice President, are not Jewish and are self-proclaimed Zionists. Wikipedia identifies five sub-ideologies and says it was founded by secular Jews. There is something in there about neglecting one's faith in order to assimilate. I think it would help the rest of us if the Jews could address their own issues in terms of ethnicity concerns, the variants of Judaism, and the variants of Zionism without infecting or affecting the political process of other sovereign countries and without causing them to spend inordinate sums to defend a small nation which arguably has been given by the US the military means to defend itself and has stolen the rest of it from the US as well. Moreover, it has adopted, apparently, a crazed disorder in which it has turned itself into the very thing it despises and against which it is trying to defend itself.

Your cautions, Wayne, suggest -- as someone else has done -- that I not fall into the abyss of hatred. I work overtime at it. I am coming from a place of love for the future of my grandchildren, of love of life itself, of love of a country that at least at one time had the promise of being a peaceful nation that was a beacon. Today, it has become -- like its other self, Israel -- a pariah.

I am currently reading a book entitled Creating a Learning Culture: Strategy, Technology, and Practice (http://www.amazon.com/Creating-Learning-Culture-Strategy-Technology/dp/0521537177), an offshoot based on the work done by Peter Senge on organizational learning. In it, there is a wonderful description of how the US was designed to be a "nobody-in-charge" unique experiment in uncentralized governance, a situation that required continuous learning. This thread was started with an OP on the role of secret societies in the "dumbing down" of America. You note that Rockefeller was not Jewish, that JP Morgan was an Episcopalian, etc. and,of course, you are right. One might suggest that they were only pretending to be Christians in order to assimilate themselves. Greed and the need to seize and maintain a hold on power requires much deception.

The centuries-old history of all of this is hidden in legend and myth and the secrecies and secret methods of the usurers of the day; There are threads here which provide information about the computerized methods of espionage and secrecy and surveillance of the modern day. Today, the stock market in New York fell 650 points; some fellow standing next to a pole was perhaps sending secret signals and those with capital that was hoarded in the rising price of gold (or derived from the trafficking of narcotics) will soon buy most everything available for pennies on the dollar. Retirees will run to bulk-purchase stores to try to buy canned goods.

"Cannibalism is the consuming of another's life for one's own private purpose or profit." [Forbes, Jack. Columbus and other Cannibals: The Wetiko Disease of Exploitation, Imperialism and Terrorism. Brooklyn, N.Y.: Autonomedia, 1992.][ http://www.amazon.com/Columbus-Other-Cannibals-Exploitation-Imperialism/dp/0936756705 ]

"Lacking a sense of soul, wetikos are efficient 'machines', dedicated to preserving and serving "the state," which, to quote Forbes, “is itself a creature of the wetikos who have seized control of its power apparatus.” A full-fledged wetiko has become a robotic automaton, conditioned to react to certain stimuli like a reflex. They have become part of ”the machine,” with no spontaneity, creativity, originality, nor freethinking programmed in. Dehumanized, wetikos have lost touch with any sense of aesthetics, of appreciating the inherent beauty of life, and have become 'an-esthetic,', i.e., anesthetized and numb to what it used to be a human being. Emissaries of an authoritarian, militarized, patriarchal planetary 'culture', the wetiko bug breeds fascism, and terror. To quote the great healer Wilhelm Reich, “Fascism is the vampire leached to the body of the living, the impulse to murder given free reign.” Fascism is the outer, collective political expression of an individual's ravaged inner landscape that has been crippled and suppressed by the authoritarian civilization of' 'the machine."[p. 46-47, in Paul Levy]

"In a situation of' group narcissism', wetikos at different stages of hte disease assume particular postures and roles relative to each other so as to protect and shield themselves from their own insanity and darkness. They feed and reinforce each others' narcissism because it enhances their own....."

I hear a lot about peoples' sense of genetic exceptionalism; this is seen in the kinds of white supremacist nonsense you warn against, but it is also seen in the attitudes of more than one person of one or another Jewish persuasion; there is great pride in the supposed intellectual and cognitive excellence presence in the Jewish genes. Gene-specific biowarfare capacities are with us in this world. Nuclear and other forms of apocalypse and holocaust are threatened regularly, sometimes by people with the capacity to actualize it. We've seen bits of it recently in Oslo; we've seen it regularly in the Mideast; Leon Panetta defends the perverse budgetary consumption necessary to maintain the ability of the US to defend itself by offensive means. Much of this is created in the inner sanctuaries of secret societies where men of exceptional wealth and background pretend that they can capture the alchemical and cosmic forces which fact certifies that they are the Chosen Ones with the right to decide the future for the rest of us.

***

"We have a choice between conversation and violence."

“… when force imposes no limits on itself,
violence and terror reign and, finally,
both life and spirit are destroyed.”

Karl Jaspers

Wayne Andrews
08-09-2011, 02:21 AM
Hi Ed,
Thank you, again, for your very thoughtful response. All of the points, that you mention here, are well taken. I can definitely appreciate-and sympathize-with your dilemma of trying to discern the "good guys" from the "bad guys." It can be very difficult! I wish that there was a post-modern Moreh Nevukim, ("Guide for the Perplexed" -by Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon>better known as Maimonedes). At the same time, I must beg to differ on the subject of Zionism. You say that it is regarded as a Jewish movement by "some." I see Zionism as the legitmate-and majority-political expression of the Jewish people. Interestingly enough, it should be noted here that there is always room for dissent within Judaism. This is vividly shown within Israeli politics. Granted, there are so-called Christian Zionists; who are fundamentalists. I know that not every Jew-(regardless of being American, Israeli, etc.)- sees eye to eye with the fundamentalists. I remember a certain Hasidic rabbi's statement in the 1980's; regarding the Christian fundamentalists. I am not quoting verbatim: "Let them walk on the opposite side of the street. If they want to help Israel, then fine. But we should not trust them-(given Christianity's horrid past of anti-Semitism)."
Regarding the "wetikos," your description reminds me of Erich Fromm's "automaton conformity" in his book Escape from Freedom. Ed, I respect and applaud your multi-faceted pursuit of knowledge and truth. I, too, have gone through many twists and turns in the road. I have several strikes against me: a.) I am a Jew; b.) I am a long-time student of Kabbalah; c.) I am a 32' K:.C:.C:.H:. Scottish Rite Mason; d.) I am not part of the herd......

Ed Jewett
08-09-2011, 05:12 AM
Wayne, I disagree with your appraisal of the percentage of Jews who support Zionism (but let's not fight over it). My questions might be: Do they support Zionist excesses as well? Do they have or take any responsibility for what it has meant, and what it has done? Are they so ethnocentrically narcissistic as to believe they have a right to commandeer US domestic politics to their ends?

Today's question: Why doesn't Israel simply become the 51st state?

Answer: Because then they would only have Two Senators and 12 Congressional reps.

I think my religious and spiritual experience is already stated. My great-grandfather was a 32nd-degree chap. His son was the shop superintendent for Winchester Arms when they turned out a billion 30-caliber shells for the US Army and Navy for World War One. (I am still working off that ancestral karma.) I wonder if my high school English teacher somehow knew that when he taught me the poetry of Henry Reed and Wilfred Owen, or when he shunned me when I showed up 9 months after graduation in my pretend Green Beret uniform. I left the herd shortly thereafter. I know nothing of the Kabbalah. I know a little something of gnosis. I have had my share of mystical experience. My daughter chose to major in college in sociology because she wanted to know 'why people treated each other the way they do'. I don't think she discovered the answer to that question. Neither have I.

Wayne Andrews
08-09-2011, 02:18 PM
Ed,
First, let me say that I find your response to be noticably cutting; as it pertains to Israel. I see that you have a hostility towards Israel; not to menion the Masons. Since I shared with you my Jewish identity and Masonic affiliation your tone has changed. No, I do not think that Israel is "ethnocentricly narcissistic" or insensitive to what she has had to do to defend herself. Remember what I mentioned in a previous response; regarding the anti-Semitism of the New Left? Please be careful...And no, there is a huge dissent of opinion within Israel, (and the American Jewish community), regarding the Israeli government's handling of the Palestinians. I do take offense to your "Q&A" remarks regarding Israel being a 51st state; with representatives in the House and Senate. Again, please be careful; lest you find yourself sounding like Louis Farrakhan.

Jan Klimkowski
08-09-2011, 05:58 PM
Wayne - you have quoted Werner Cohn enthusiastically and uncritically in your posts here at DPF.

Is it correct that Cohn believes that gypsies are not an ethnic group or community, but are instead defined primarily by their opposition to western society?

Wayne Andrews
08-09-2011, 08:02 PM
Hello Jim,

Regarding Werner Cohn: "...enthusiastically and uncritically" you say is my use of his quotes in a previous response. Granted I could have used another source; when describing the anti-Semitism/anti-Zionism of the New Left. So, I used Cohn. What if I used any other writer, who had the same critique? This should not diminish the point I was making in that response; as it pertains to the new anti-Semitism under the guise of anti-Zionism. As far as Cohn's position on the Gypsies: I do not think he views them as a non-ethnic people; who are only defined by geographic boundries. He does think that the Rom have lived in Europe for centuries. But this does not mean that they are not an ethnic people. Linguistic evidence in all gypsy dialects shows Indic origin. However, the Rom language also shows traces of of Persian, Kurdish and Armenian and Greek. All that aside, my use of Cohn as a reference-in describing anti-Zionism-apparently negates everything that I have said here. Is this so? Or is it something else?

Jan Klimkowski
08-09-2011, 08:52 PM
Hello Jim,

Hullo Werner.




Regarding Werner Cohn: "...enthusiastically and uncritically" you say is my use of his quotes in a previous response. Granted I could have used another source; when describing the anti-Semitism/anti-Zionism of the New Left. So, I used Cohn. What if I used any other writer, who had the same critique? This should not diminish the point I was making in that response; as it pertains to the new anti-Semitism under the guise of anti-Zionism. As far as Cohn's position on the Gypsies: I do not think he views them as a non-ethnic people; who are only defined by geographic boundries. He does think that the Rom have lived in Europe for centuries. But this does not mean that they are not an ethnic people. Linguistic evidence in all gypsy dialects shows Indic origin. However, the Rom language also shows traces of of Persian, Kurdish and Armenian and Greek. All that aside, my use of Cohn as a reference-in describing anti-Zionism-apparently negates everything that I have said here. Is this so? Or is it something else?

You come over so innocent and humble. You seem to suggest that your use of Werner Cohn is entirely casual, and you could have used lots of similar critics.

Which is patent rubbish.

Werner Cohn is a notorious rent-a-quote critic of American academics, particularly Jewish American academics, who criticize Zionism or the actions of the state of Israel.

Cohn claims Chomsky is a "holocaust denier". See the page on his website here (http://www.wernercohn.com/Chomsky.html), which is headed:


Partners in Hate

Noam Chomsky and the Holocaust Deniers

by Werner Cohn

© Werner Cohn, 1985, 1995
Published by Avukah Press, Cambridge

Here is a 1989 (http://www.chomsky.info/letters/19890601.htm) response from Chomsky:


In Cohn's 'crucial source', cited above, Guillaume quotes my statement that 'there are no rational grounds that allow any doubt about the existence of gas chambers.' Thus Cohn is refuted by his own 'crucial source.' In my own writings, from the earliest until the present, the conclusions of standard Holocaust studies are taken simply as established fact, as Cohn knows perfectly well. In the introduction to my first collection of political essays, 20 years ago, I add that we have lost our humanity if we are even willing to enter into debate over the Nazi crimes with those who deny or defend them. The only particle of truth in Cohn's absurd charge is that I never use the phrase 'scientific knowledge' in dealing with any questions of history; my book with Herman, for example, which is neither science nor mere opinion.

(snip)

That Cohn is a pathological liar is demonstrated by the very examples that he selects. Knowing nothing about him, and caring less, I am in no position to comment further on what may lie behind this odd and pathetic behavior.

Sincerely yours,

Noam Chomsky

Werner Cohn as a credible source? Nah.

Ed Jewett
08-10-2011, 12:31 AM
Ed,
First, let me say that I find your response to be noticably cutting; as it pertains to Israel. I see that you have a hostility towards Israel; not to menion the Masons. Since I shared with you my Jewish identity and Masonic affiliation your tone has changed. No, I do not think that Israel is "ethnocentricly narcissistic" or insensitive to what she has had to do to defend herself. Remember what I mentioned in a previous response; regarding the anti-Semitism of the New Left? Please be careful...And no, there is a huge dissent of opinion within Israel, (and the American Jewish community), regarding the Israeli government's handling of the Palestinians. I do take offense to your "Q&A" remarks regarding Israel being a 51st state; with representatives in the House and Senate. Again, please be careful; lest you find yourself sounding like Louis Farrakhan.

Wayne, before I answer your questions, let me ask some of my own -- for the record.

You suggest that I have a “hostility”, but your very first post here in this thread was an ad hominem attack -- even in the title -- like this is some sort of showdown at the corral. I guess it is high noon somewhere. (World Time Clock & Map - Check Current Local Time Around the World)

Indeed, your very first post here at the Deep Politics Forum has my name in its title, despite the fact that you have a stated interest in knowing who is at the top of the pyramid in the JFK assassination. There are 852 threads with over 9,000 posts in the JFK section. Do you think I am at the top of that pyramid? Do you think I may have some idea as to who is at the top of the pyramid? Why, if the JFK assassination is the reason you are here at Deep Politics Forum, have you singled me out in a thread about secret societies? Did someone send you to this task?

One wonders why you haven’t posted in the thread about the events in Oslo (http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2011/08/massacre-in-norway-mossad-strikes-again-under-‘lone-gunman’-cover).

Wayne, you speak of a “tone change” after you introduced aspects of your self-identity, but your discernment of cause and effect is in error. In that same post in which you revealed your identity as a 32nd Mason, a Jew, and a student of Kabbalism, you spoke with some apparent knowledge of Zionism. I surmised three questions about Zionism thinking you might provide some illumination. Do you fear dialogue?

You suggest that I have a hostility against the Masons. I don’t know much about the Masons, but there are historical references about how Illuminatism and the works of the Rothschilds were hidden or masked inside the organization. My hostility is not about Freemasonry; I appreciate that, at the bottom of the rungs, there are a lot of nice people who are looking for a club where they can feel welcome. There’s an old TV show in syndication now about a place “where everybody knows your name”. People have a need to belong.

You ask why I have a hostility against Israel. Israel appears, especially by its recent actions, to be a violent racist supremacist state. Israel committed murder of an American citizen on the open seas... repeated head shots at point-blank range of an unarmed man is not national self-defense. Israel committed an act or war against the USS Liberty, an act which was covered up by the US security state. Israel holds and expands on the standing threat of nuclear annihilation for vast stretches of territory, and has “gamed” the rationale of a first strike, and holds its Masada complex in a tight grip in the form of “the Samson Option”.

Israel’s birth coincides nicely with the creation of the national security enabling legislation of the late 40’s, an act which has brought a massive infusion of deeply disturbing acts by an unaccountable agency -- repeated acts of state crimes against democracy -- including the use and development of mind control, bio-warfare, massive surveillance, covert activities in the illicit trafficking of deadly narcotics, and numerous other acts of destructiveness. There is, it seems, a good degree of cross-integration between the intelligence agencies of both states.

Israel’s fingerprints are all over the act of murder of 3,000 people in September 2001. Professionally, I was involved in emergency medical systems response and emergency management, and Zionists killed some of my peers and used my profession as cover for their dastardly act.

Israel introduced the art of terrorism into the late-20th century international scene and is arguably the premier agent of false flag attacks.

Goggle “Israel’s war crimes” and you get four million hits, surely a grand debate not yet formally answered so long as there are people who will intimidate critics.

You take offense at the joke about Israel and Congress. It was an explanation of the reality in my third question about Zionism. I trust you are familiar with the debates, issues, charges, and evidence regarding the role of AIPAC as a lobbying firm, one that involves fiscal tinkering with the outcomes of elections, engages in industrial and economic espionage, fails to register -- as it arguably should -- as a foreign agent, and more. Additional issues can be mentioned in terms of the use of Israeli technologies and corporations to infiltrate and spy on the creation of domestic and foreign policy inside the Beltway. Then there is the case of Rachel Abileah, an American, who was assaulted by members of AIPAC, when she protested Benjamin Netanyahu when he addressed Congress.

You caution me against sounding like Louis Farrakhan. Is this an indication that suggests you are to engage in further damnation by association, painting me with the words and works of a Black Muslim? Do you have hostility against blacks or Islam? Well, we know that there are ancient antipathies. But when is enough enough?

You mention the anti-Semitism of the New Left... I am unfamiliar with the New Left. I was in the old left, but left it when it acquiesced to war-mongering and fiscal insanity and embraced state secrecy and corruption. I am familiar with anti-Semitism, having been accused of it repeatedly, mostly by Zionists and Jews, and I recognize that it is a way to self-inoculate; it’s an old trick frequently used, as admitted by an Israeli (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oqJH1KXlPs). I am also familiar with the history and timing of the creation of the B’Nai B’rith and the ADL here in the United States, essentially as a covert or deceptive approach to a defense against the banksters who instituted (by deception) the Federal Reserve which today has the US economy and the dollar in a near-state of collapse due to its fraudulent and usurious practices, still unaccountable to anyone, as is its mega-bank: the Bank of International Settlements. Much of this is widely known and available in books, the Internet, or the ongoing journalism of a wide variety of citizens from a wide variety of backgrounds in the US and across the world.

Joe Biden, a self-admitted Zionist, the Vice President of the United States, is calling many Americans who demand fiscal sanity “terrorists” -- at a time when the PATRIOT ACT and its secret variants are in force and terrorists or anyone labeled as one can be detained indefinitely without trial and tortured.

The White House and the Department of Homeland Security have labeled anyone who protests or disrupts the TSA in its notorious harassing, sexually intimidating and traumatizing “pat down” procedures of women, young female adolescents, and old ladies in Depends. The TSA currently uses screening systems installed under the direction of Michael Chertoff, who left to go take a seat on the board of directors of the manufacturer.


It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.

-Lazarus Long, Time Enough for Love


So, Wayne, why have you singled me out as your dominant act here at DPF?

Ed Jewett
08-10-2011, 03:18 AM
Oh, and look at this... that "other" Bonesman has just been selected for
Super Congress....


3 Spineless Dems Picked for 'Super Dictatorship' --Reid said to name Murray, Baucus, Kerry to Cat Food Commission II

09 Aug 2011

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., plans to appoint Sens. Patty Murray of Washington, Max Baucus of Montana and John Kerry of Massachusetts to a special unconstitutional committee charged with finding $1.5 trillion in budget savings, an aide familiar with the matter said Tuesday. Reid will name Murray as co-chairman of the 12-member deficit panel being appointed by Democratic and Republican leaders of Congress, the aide said.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/52357774-68/reid-murray-senate-committee.html.csp

http://www.legitgov.org/3-Spineless-Dems-Picked-Super-Dictatorship

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5...ittee.html.csp

http://www.legitgov.org/3-Spineless-...r-Dictatorship

http://images.betterworldbooks.com/097/Fleshing-Out-Skull-Bones-9780972020725.jpg

http://www.carolonpets.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/image001.jpg

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 01:36 PM
Ed, How do you explain the Marxist theory of the "withering away of the state" as a goal of human civilization through the process of dialectical materialism? I ask because of your post's inclusion of the idea that Marxism worships the state as the "be all - end all" of history.

Magda Hassan
08-10-2011, 02:22 PM
I think that it was Anthony Sutton and not Ed quoting about the state. Poor Ed is getting all the questions :poke: after serving this smorgasbord of ideas. The withering of the state occcurs as a natual process of the transistion from a socialist state to a communist one. When the proletariat obtain control of the state apparatus and implement a socialist society and as that society matures and develops (with out interference from reactionary forces, by the way) into a communist society the state itself will wither and eventually disappear as it,as a weapon of power, will no longer be needed. The property will all be communally owned and distributed and in fact the concept of property itself will also disappear.

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 03:30 PM
Magda, I wasn't asking for a definition of Marxian state theory since I know what Marxism says about "the state" which is why I asked the question of Ed. If you read my post closer you will see I didn't suggest Ed made the comment about "the state" but that it was incld. in his post implying it was said in Sutton's material that Ed posted. I was asking Ed what he thought about Sutton's understanding of the significance of "the state".

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 04:20 PM
From the introduction to the 2002 edition (re-published by TrineDay) of America’s Secret Establishment: an introduction to the order of Skull and Bones by Antony C Sutton.

“Wonder why we haven’t a “dumbed-down” society? Look no further than the Bonesmen troika who imported the Prussian education system into the US in the 19th century. A political philosophy in direct opposition to the classical liberalism nurtured in 19th century British and American history. In classic liberalism, the State is always subordinate to the individual. In Hegelian Statism, as we have seen in Nazi-ism and MARXISM, the State is supreme, and the individual exists only to serve the State. ... In education, the Dewey system was initiated and promoted by Skull and Bones members. Dewey was an ardent Statist, and a believer in the Hegelian idea that the child exists to be trained to serve the state. This requires suppression of individualist tendencies and a careful spoon-feeding of of approved knowledge. This “dumbing down” of American education is not easily apparent unless you’ve studied in both foreign and domestic US universities–then the contrast becomes crystal clear.”

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 04:27 PM
BTW, getting back to the Charlotte Iserbyt video at the start of this thread, is the assumption here that the JFK secret "society" speech was referring to the secret societies discussed here or was he talking about secrecy by US intell. agencies?

Jan Klimkowski
08-10-2011, 05:04 PM
BTW, getting back to the Charlotte Iserbyt video at the start of this thread, is the assumption here that the JFK secret "society" speech was referring to the secret societies discussed here or was he talking about secrecy by US intell. agencies?

Gary - if you're referring to the speech I think you are, there's a DPF thread here (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?6300-JFK-describes-quot-The-Unthinkable-quot-quot-The-High-Cabal-quot&highlight=) discussing it.

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 08:52 PM
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.png

After reading through this whole thread I notice there was no discussion of the fact that a Unitarian concientious objector, Ted Sorensen, wrote JFK's April 27,61 speech. Sorensen was haunted until his recent death that the internet "secret society" crowd was going to result in his being remembered for JFK getting assassinated by a "secret society". Even if that is the case, i.e. that the Birchers or Illuminati believed the speech was a threat to them, Sorensen knew that what he wrote had nothing to do them. He was desperate to stop the BS that was proliferating about his complicity in the assassination. I know this because I had a conversation with him on Sept. 25th, 09 where he made this clear to me. He said as we stood toe to toe, "I am not going to take the blame for JFK's death to the grave with me".

Ed Jewett
08-10-2011, 09:18 PM
Gary asks -- in post #42, after clarification in earlier posts -- what I thought about Sutton's understanding of the significance of "the state" as further clarified in post #43.

I am not sure if his inquiry is intended to be a discussion about the philosophies of governance, my perspective on their erudition, or my personal philosophy. Could the question be paraphrased this way?: ‘Where are you coming from, Ed?’

Sutton’s understanding of the state is contained in his bibliography, not just a quoted paragraph from one of them. It and more are available in his Wikipedia entry here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_C._Sutton See also http://www.antonysutton.com/ I have not read those books -- other than the one cited -- but we could ask http://www.antonysutton.com/sutton-memorial/index.html Kris Millegan what he thinks. It was Kris who suggested my foray into Levenda’s Trilogy in a memorable chance conversation I had with him when I ordered a new book. Indeed, much of the Millegan stable exists because of his father’s suggestion (former G2/OSS/CIA background) that he look into secret societies as the source for greater understanding.

To be perfectly honest, I know little about Marxist theory. I am an American of near-retirement age, which means I was educated at the elementary level in the decade of Eisenhower, at the secondary level under the Kennedy and Johnson administrations, in both public and private schools. Marxist theory wasn’t in the curriculum. And it wasn’t there, though I perhaps could have sought it, at “the big State U”. I did have a course in Russian history but frankly muddled through it on the way to something totally unrelated.

Perhaps the paragraphs surrounding the one that I quoted will lend further insight.

“Hegelianism glorifies the State, the vehicle for the dissemination of statist and materialist ideas and policies in education, science, politics and economics.”

“Our 2-party Republican-Democrat (= one Hegelian party, no one else welcomed or allowed) system is a reflection of this Hegelianism. A small group–a very small group–by using Hegel, can manipulate, and to some extent, control society for its own purposes.”

The same introduction goes on to describe interplay of Iserbyt’s work on the deliberate dumbing down of America; as I understand it, it was she who provided the membership documentation and history of Skull and Bones to Sutton.

To answer Gary more directly, “Yes”, Sutton’s expression (“In Hegelian Statism, as we have seen in Nazi-ism and MARXISM, the State is supreme, and the individual exists only to serve the State”) certainly seems to resonate within my own experience and within the American political debate today as I see it. I dropped the “left-right paradigm” some time ago. A great deal of effort is undertaken here in the States to undermine or sideline any challenge to it, whether it comes from a populist, “Green”, or Libertarian perspective. I here a lot of commentary from the supporters of Obama about collectivism. But I’m a New Englander who has been exposed to Henry David Thoreau, most notably his “Civil Disobedience”. Indeed, the laws have been shaped over time to make it exceedingly difficult to run for anything other than dog-catcher with a third party label. But I cannot speak for how Marxist theory works, is understood, or is applied in Europe or other parts of the world. This fact, in itself, may be proof of the dumbing down of American education.

Certainly my personal experience resonates with the ideas that “the child exists to be trained to serve the state”; it shapes much of what passes for “guidance” in American schooling. [“Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."] In 8th grade, it was suggested that I had the linguistic skills to become a translator, and I was taken to the UN for a related field trip. The “suppression of individualist tendencies and a careful spoon-feeding of of approved knowledge” also resonates. A limited sampling: In that same eight grade, I was working on building my skills in baseball but my parents were told I would never be an athlete by my Latin teacher and baseball coach. In 10th grade, the actual assassination of Kennedy was never discussed except in an impassioned outburst by a Czechoslovakian French teacher on the subject of freedom. In college, the film I produced and shot on the pollution of the Chicopee River by Monsanto was relegated to the dustbin with the warning that any future employer TV station would never air anything like that. In college, the Gulf of Tonkin affair was a whispering matter even in a liberal state by liberal professors.

The end of the introduction by Sutton asks “What is To Be Done?”:

“If the voting public was even vaguely aware of this rampant and concealed scenario, it could, and possibly would force change. However, this is not a likely possibility. Most people are “go-along” types, with limited personal objectives and a high threshold for official misdeeds.

What is taken over a century to establish cannot be changed in a few years. The initial question is education. To eliminate the leaky alien system that stifles individual initiative and trains children to become mindless zombies, serving the state.

We need a lot less propaganda for “education” and a more individual creative search for learning. Instead of more money for education, we need to allocate a lot less. The existing system of education is little more than a conditioning mechanism. It has little to do with education in the true sense, and a lot to do with control of the individual.....”


This is also something I can agree with; the bibliography for my “graduate-level” 1,400-page collection of excerpts on personal performance psychology entitled “Summon The Magic” includes (in addition to multiple references on sports psychology, aikido and coaching) the following:

The Art of Possibility, Rosamund Stone Zander and Benjamin Zander, Harvard Business School Press, 2000. [A delicious little book for leaders that invites you to open the door to the full potential of what's happening around you.]

The Everyday Work of Art: How Artistic Experience Can Transform Your Life, Eric Booth, Sourcebooks, Napierville, Illinois 1997. [At the foundation of Summon The Magic, the concepts in this book should be taught to every high school student; written by an individual who has achieved unparalleled success in the fields of music, the performing arts and business.] [Having been recognized by many educators as an outstanding book, it has been re-published by Authors’ Guild Back-in-Print (iUniverse.com) (ISBN 0-595-19380-3) with the new subtitle Awakening the Extraordinary in Your Daily Life.]

Free Play: Improvisation in Life and Art, Stephen Nachmanovitch, Tarcher/Putnam, NY 1990. [This book is so delightful, I ordered extras for my fellow players in the inaugural “Game of Games”.]

God and the Evolving Universe: The Next Step in Personal Evolution, by James Redfield, Michael Murphy and Sylvia Timbers, Tarcher/Putnam, New York 2002. [A profound book with a stunning premise, something more than just its thorough yet simple review of the wisdoms of sages, mystics and scientists, it is an exploration of the range of extraordinary capabilities available to the human body/mind/spirit, and it is a call to personal action. Redfield is the author of The Celestine Prophecy, The Tenth Insight and The Celestine Vision. Murphy, the founder of the Esalen Institute, is the author of In the Zone (with Rhea Murphy), The Future of the Body, and The Life We are Given (with George Leonard). Timbers has been involved in consciousness studies and training for 20 years and a multimedia producer of projects focused on psychological and spiritual development. The book also contains a 66-page guide to the literature of transformative practice and a 28-page series of simple suggested practices that will deepen anyone's abilities in personal development of body/mind/spirit unity.]

How To Be, Do, or Have Anything: A Practical Guide to Creative Empowerment, Laurence G. Boldt, Ten Speed Press, Berkeley, CA 2001.

In Pursuit of Excellence: How To Win in Sport and Life Through Mental Training, (book & audio cassettes),Terry Orlick, PhD., Human Kinetics, 1997.

Intelligence Reframed: Multiple Intelligences for the 21st Century, Howard Gardner, Basic Books, New York, 1999. [A seminal work in educational reform.]

A Mind at a Time: America's Top Expert Shows How Every Child Can Succeed, Mel Levine, M.D., Simon and Schuster, New York 2002. 


Nature and the Human Soul: Cultivating Wholeness and Community in a Fragmented World, Bill Plotkin, New World Library, Novato, CA 2008. {A major work on developmental psychology and ecopsychology.]

One Kid at a Time: Big Lessons from a Small School, Eliot Levine, Teachers College Press, New York, 2002. [About learning through interests, passions, tasks and internships at a unique high school in Providence, RI.]

Reclaiming Our Children: A Healing Plan for a Nation in Crisis, Peter R. Breggin, M.D., Perseus Books, Cambridge, MA 2000.

Seven Times Smarter: 50 Activities, Games and Projects to Develop the Seven
Intelligences of Your Child, Laurel Schmidt, Three Rivers Press, New York 2001.

[I]Schools With Spirit: Nurturing the Inner Lives of Children and Teachers, edited by Linda Lantieri, Beacon Press, 2001. [A fascinating and delightful book about how to bring the arts, spirituality, the environment and other approaches to deep engagement and connectedness into the educational process.]

Smart Moves: Why Learning is Not All In Your Head, Carla Hannaford,
Ph.D., Great Ocean Publishers, Arlington, VA 1995. [The author is a nationally- recognized neuropsychologist and educator. This is a fascinating, very readable and important book on neuroscience, educational kinesiology and the brain/body connection as it affects us in learning, in performance, at work, and in society. It explains several basic BrainGym exercises, very simple techniques anyone can use to enhance their lives in innumerable ways.]



Sparks of Genius: The 13 Thinking Tools of the World's Most Creative People, Robert and Michele Root-Bernstein, Houghton Mifflin, New York. 1999. [The primary tools are observing, imaging, abstracting, recognizing patterns, forming patterns, analogizing, body thinking, empathizing and dimensional thinking; the integrative tools are modeling, playing, transforming and synthesizing.]

An Unused Intelligence: Physical Thinking for the 21st Century, Andy Brynner and Dawna Markova, Ph.D., Conan Press, Berkeley, CA 1996. [This is a "handbook for implementing the five disciplines of learning organizations", with a flavor that borrows on aikido.]


So, [B]the summary answer from a personal level is this:

I figure the state, or the collective, will be significantly enhanced if we give it citizens who are prepared to pursue their own dreams and visions and goals instead of being limited to someone else’s.

Jan Klimkowski
08-10-2011, 09:38 PM
Magda, I wasn't asking for a definition of Marxian state theory since I know what Marxism says about "the state" which is why I asked the question of Ed. If you read my post closer you will see I didn't suggest Ed made the comment about "the state" but that it was incld. in his post implying it was said in Sutton's material that Ed posted. I was asking Ed what he thought about Sutton's understanding of the significance of "the state".


Gary - I'm citing only your quote above, but considering your several posts on Anthony Sutton's comments about the influence of Hegelian Statism.

It's hard to think of a state that has withered away, according to classic Marxist theory as articulated by Magda in her post.

My own take is that Sutton was attemping to draw a direct link between the philosophies that spawned totalitarian states and the Skull & Boners' "suppression of individualist tendencies and a careful spoon-feeding of of approved knowledge" in the US education system. And onwards into the control of adult Americans, through the dumbing down of public discourse in America, and its enclosure within carefully defined borders guarded by Mockingbirds.

I don't think the Boners would be terribly keen on the type of state control of thought that they promote "withering away".... :loco:

Thanks for the information about Ted Sorensen.

What else did he tell you about the speech, and its, ahem, deeper meanings?

Charles Drago
08-10-2011, 10:04 PM
After reading through this whole thread I notice there was no discussion of the fact that a Quaker, Ted Sorensen, wrote JFK's April 27,61 speech. Sorensen was haunted until his recent death that the internet "secret society" crowd was going to result in his being remembered for JFK getting assassinated by a "secret society". Even if that is the case, i.e. that the Birchers or Illuminati believed the speech was a threat to them, Sorensen knew that what he wrote had nothing to do them. He was desperate to stop the BS that was proliferating about his complicity in the assassination. I know this because I had a conversation with him on Nov 25th, 09 where he made this clear to me. He said as we stood toe to toe, "I am not going to take the blame for JFK's death to the grave with me".

The real question here is, Which speech do you believe Sorensen was talking about -- if he were talking about a speech at all.

I think it's clear that if, in his conversation with you, Sorensen was referencing a speech that he wrote which, in its transcendent message, sealed JFK's fate, he no doubt was thinking of the June 10, 1963 speech delivered at American University.

It may be argued convincingly that JFK's remarks that day stand as the most enlightened and courageous speech ever delivered by a political leader.

JFK's "secret societies" speech was about communism, pure and simple. To argue that JFK somehow anticipated contemporary conspiracy theory is at best nobly wrong-headed and at worst an attempt to enlist JFK himself in efforts to misdirect our inquiries.

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 10:25 PM
Thanks for the complete response Ed. I can't type fast so the post amazes me. I'm sure you have a few tricks to accomplish that though. At any rate I am not going to go into an explication of Marxism but will say that its reality caused Marx to see into its inner workings resulting in his class analysis of state capitalism as a system that needed to go away with the help of the proletariat. When classes cease to exist as Magda says we have no further need for the state as we experience it. My point is that big govt. is ultimately a problem the right and left have more agreement about than they think. I agree education, as you describe with your bibliography, will create humans that would make a stateless society possible, i.e. a "socialist man".
I would disagree with you though by saying MORE money does need to be spent on education. Not to pay teachers more necessarily but to hire more of them to cut class sizes drastically. As long as we have a class based state that generates tremendous poverty we can only compensate by having more teachers "hand making" student outcomes instead of "mass producing" them assembly line style.

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 10:38 PM
Charles, as I said in the post he wrote the "secret society" speech and that was the subject of my discussion with him. I agree the June 10 /63 speech was more courageous and more dangerous but since I said Sorensen knew his speech of April 27/61 wasn't about "secret societies" he knew it didn't get JFK killed. He was telling me he was upset that it came to be framed that way by too many people. I see what you're saying and it may seem I suggested that a "secret society" did the deed but that isn't the case. At the same time I'm not suggesting these secret groups aren't real & effect policy since we live in an oligarchy.

Charles Drago
08-10-2011, 10:50 PM
After reading through this whole thread I notice there was no discussion of the fact that a Quaker, Ted Sorensen, wrote JFK's April 27,61 speech. Sorensen was haunted until his recent death that the internet "secret society" crowd was going to result in his being remembered for JFK getting assassinated by a "secret society".

P.S.

The "secret society" interpretation of that speech as it is being argued here -- to wit, JFK was referencing Illuminati-like entities -- is recent enough a phenomenon as to invalidate a claim that Sorenson had been "haunted" -- inferentially for a very long time -- as you describe him to be.

Forgive me if I've missed a previously offered answer to this question, but when did you have the conversation with Sorensen?

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 10:55 PM
Thanks Jan, I basically agree with what you suggest Sutton is saying. I ask the question of Ed & others to see what the frames of ref. are in the discussions here. As far as your comment about not seeing withered states that is correct since Marx posited that end as a future outcome since there are no fully communist societies now.

Sorensen didn't didn't suggest there was anything deeper to the "secret society" speech. I think that the way the ref. to secret societies is said in the speech it indicates that there is no thought that the speech is about them. The ref. is used to bolster the notion that we don't like secrecy in a democracy. Of course JFK knew of the existence of these groups i.e. S&B etc. but his concern was govt. secrecy I believe IMHO.



Magda, I wasn't asking for a definition of Marxian state theory since I know what Marxism says about "the state" which is why I asked the question of Ed. If you read my post closer you will see I didn't suggest Ed made the comment about "the state" but that it was incld. in his post implying it was said in Sutton's material that Ed posted. I was asking Ed what he thought about Sutton's understanding of the significance of "the state".


Gary - I'm citing only your quote above, but considering your several posts on Anthony Sutton's comments about the influence of Hegelian Statism.

It's hard to think of a state that has withered away, according to classic Marxist theory as articulated by Magda in her post.

My own take is that Sutton was attemping to draw a direct link behind the philosophies that spawned totalitarian states and the Skull & Boners' "suppression of individualist tendencies and a careful spoon-feeding of of approved knowledge" in the US education system. And onwards into the control of adult Americans, through the dumbing down of public discourse in America, and its enclosure within carefully defined borders guarded by Mockingbirds.

I don't think the Boners would be terribly keen on the type of state control of thought that they promote "withering away".... :loco:

Thanks for the information about Ted Sorensen.

What else did he tell you about the speech, and its, ahem, deeper meanings?

Ed Jewett
08-10-2011, 10:56 PM
[B] After reading through this whole thread I notice there was no discussion of the fact that a Quaker, Ted Sorensen...

Quaker? Where do you get Quaker? I have several references that suggest he was a UU...His Wikipedia entry, the first chapter of "Counselor", his obituary at The Jewiish Chronicle online ["... Mr Sorenson once commented: “As a Danish Russian Jewish Unitarian, I am surely a member of the smallest minority among the many small minorities that made this country great."], and a list by the Unitarians of great Unitarians.

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 11:04 PM
You're right Ed, I misspoke. I was thinking simultaneously about the Quakers that James Douglas described meeting with JFK and influencing his attitudes about peace before his death. Sorensen's UU attitudes also had a big influence on JFK's peace perspectives in spite of their involvement in some CIA front ops as I believe GME describes.

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 11:17 PM
Charles, the conversation with Sorensen took place Sept.25/09 at a JFK memorial conference in Grand Forks. N.D. on the occasion of the 46th aniversary, 9/25/63, of JFK's visit to UND to recieve an honorary doctorate. Sorensen, Richard Reeves et al were invited. Sorensen & Reeves gave keynotes. The conference was about the JFK Presidency & not just the assassination. It lasted 3 days with about 60 papers presented. Myself, Jim Fetzer, John Tunnheim & John Delane Williams were on a panel together to discuss the conspiracy. My part was to deal with my N.D. research which was an extension of John Armstrong's Harvey/Lee thesis.



After reading through this whole thread I notice there was no discussion of the fact that a Quaker, Ted Sorensen, wrote JFK's April 27,61 speech. Sorensen was haunted until his recent death that the internet "secret society" crowd was going to result in his being remembered for JFK getting assassinated by a "secret society".

P.S.

The "secret society" interpretation of that speech as it is being argued here -- to wit, JFK was referencing Illuminati-like entities -- is recent enough a phenomenon as to invalidate a claim that Sorenson had been "haunted" -- inferentially for a very long time -- as you describe him to be.

Forgive me if I've missed a previously offered answer to this question, but when did you have the conversation with Sorensen?

Ed Jewett
08-10-2011, 11:24 PM
Thanks for the complete response Ed. I can't type fast so the post amazes me. I'm sure you have a few tricks to accomplish that though. At any rate I am not going to go into an explication of Marxism but will say that its reality caused Marx to see into its inner workings resulting in his class analysis of state capitalism as a system that needed to go away with the help of the proletariat. When classes cease to exist as Magda says we have no further need for the state as we experience it. My point is that big govt. is ultimately a problem the right and left have more agreement about than they think. I agree education, as you describe with your bibliography, will create humans that would make a stateless society possible, i.e. a "socialist man".
I would disagree with you though by saying MORE money does need to be spent on education. Not to pay teachers more necessarily but to hire more of them to cut class sizes drastically. As long as we have a class based state that generates tremendous poverty we can only compensate by having more teachers "hand making" student outcomes instead of "mass producing" them assembly line style.

You're welcome. The tricks up my sleeve are having had the bibliography digitized for some time, and having a voice recognition software package that allows me to dictate text from books rather than painstakingly type it, and the occasional use of actually drafting and polishing my posts on the side.

The intent of my "Summon The Magic" project is certainly not to create a socialist man (or woman); it is to create a self-driven individual who is capable of summoning from within themselves the knowledge, application, insight, intuition and motivation that is inherent within them as bipeds with a brain that is often poorly used or mis-used and for which few if any school systems are prepared to to teach them to harness to their own ends. Starting as eaerly as the first grade, kids can be led to discover for themselves what it is they they know, want to know, or need to know. Then they simply need coaches, tools, and resources through which they can acquire that knowledge or skill, take it back into the world of play to see how it works and performs, and re-emerge to acquire new skills and knowledge when they find a barrier, or obstruction, or performance plateau.

The two people who have benefitted most from the "Summon The Magic" material, starting at about the tenth grade with the regular "feeding" of three pages every other day of excerpts, were my two kids (now adult parents), the first of whom has retired two national sales awards after having been scouted as a major league pitcher, and his kid sister whose athletic career ranked her at the top of her game as a collegian, an amateur and a professional and who has two master's degrees as of next month and who is an elementary math teacher in an inner city. [Their friends and teammates, too, but I won't bore you and everyone else with the details.]

And I disagree about the money/teaching equation... The book cited ["One Kid at a Time"] works with a system in which teachers are replaced to a great extent with learning coaches. The late George Leonard also has a book in which he postulated the role and value of a sophisticated approach using learning systems -- i.e., computers, DVD's, audio systems, simulation systems, and games. Games as a prime source of learning are well-described in lots of places... just Google "game theory of learning", or see the following,among others:

[I]Architect for Learning: Utilizing The Internet as an Effective Educational Environment, Philip J. Palin and Kari Sandhaas, Saint Thomas Didymus Corporation, Ruckersville, VA (Telelogic Learning Company, www.teleologic.net).

“Video Games and the future of learning”, David Williamson Shaffer, Kurt P. Squire, Richard Halverson, James P. Gee, Academic Advanced Distributed Learning Co-Laboratory, University of Wisconsin-Madison, December 2004 (http://www.academiccolab.org/resources/gappspaper1.pdf).

Gary Severson
08-10-2011, 11:55 PM
You just provided a description what I would call "socialist man".

The problem with computer gaming systems relates to the original post here describing her whistleblowing experience in the US Dept. of Ed where she discovered the plan to replace teachers with computers and have coaches, i.e. minimum wage paras, coach in computerized classrooms. That enables the oligarchy to spend more on preemtive wars to export more "inverted totalitarianism". See Princeton's Sheldon Wallin's work & his description of the destruction of not just democracy but politics by the national security state.

Gary Severson
08-11-2011, 12:01 AM
Charles, I don't think I inferred Sorensen was haunted for a "very long" time before his death. I think though, he may have been upset for at least 10 yrs. by the speech distorters.


Charles said,

The "secret society" interpretation of that speech as it is being argued here -- to wit, JFK was referencing Illuminati-like entities -- is recent enough a phenomenon as to invalidate a claim that Sorenson had been "haunted" -- inferentially for a very long time -- as you describe him to be.

Charles Drago
08-11-2011, 12:59 AM
Gary,

I'm doubtful that the speech in question was being "distorted" for ten years prior to Sorensen's death. But surely I can be wrong on this.

Can you or anyone else reading this thread document the earliest known distortion?

Gary Severson
08-11-2011, 01:27 AM
Charles, I suggest 10 yrs. because I think I've been hearing about it in its distorted version for that long. If we say 10 yrs, that means that for about 40 yrs., i.e. 1961 to 2000 no one noticed the reference to secret societies in the speech. I think that is doubtful in itself. I'm tempted to find the origin but I don't know if it is that important. Could you clarify what it means if e.g., it is only 5 yrs. instead of 10 prior to Sorensen's death, that he was bothered by it.

Charles Drago
08-11-2011, 01:45 AM
Gary,

To bestow upon reaction to the "secret societies" speech -- a relatively obscure speech compared to that delivered at American University on 6/10/63 -- the power to haunt Sorensen is to elevate its significance.

I simply cannot imagine that individuals whose opinions mattered to or were heard by Sorensen would have misinterpreted "secret societies" and/or given such gravitas to lesser lights, so to speak, who were ranting and raving about nothing.

The American University speech, however, was well known and, among the cognoscenti aware of the forces that likely brought down JFK, appreciated for the manner in which it advocated for a paradigm shift which the Unspeakable would not be able to survive.

But let's eliminate all doubt: Are you claiming that Ted Sorensen, speaking to you, referenced the "secret societies" speech specifically and unambiguously as the speech that was being described as, in essence, JFK's death warrant?

Gary Severson
08-11-2011, 02:59 AM
Charles, yes unambiguously. The night before during his keynote Q&A in front of 1000 people he had to dodge, with the help of the moderator, a question from a man wanting to know about the "secret society" speech. He sarcastically responded that the question was irrelevant and he moved on. The next day I had the said discussion with Sorensen that led to his comment about not wanting to take the blame for JFK's death to the grave because of the supposed secret society speech. As I was asking him about James Douglas' ref. to him in THE UNSPEAKABLE he stopped me 4 times because he thought I was trying to ask another SS question like the guy the night before. Each time I had to stop him to get him to listen to a question about James D. ref. to him, Ted.S., in his book JFK & The Unspeakable. He didn't know of the book. Finally I said, "I'm not talking about the "secret society" speech," at which point he volunteered that he "wasn't going to go to his grave being blamed for JFK's death because of that speech". He then let me proceed. He was visibly upset as he had tried 4 times to stop me from asking what he thought was going to be a "secret society" question which is why I say he was haunted by the speech's misinterpretation by so many. I hope that is an adequate explanation.

I talked with him a couple more times during the weekend about other things like the fact that JFK didn't say anything in his 9/25/63 UND speech about the fact that the Limited Test ban Treaty had been passed by the Senate the day before. This would have been 3mths. after the June 10 Amer. Univ. speech. JFK considered this his most satisfying accomplishment. Sorensen told me he didn't know why JFK didn't mention it the next day in his GF speech but he did a day or so later. The speech in GF was about the environment & saving the wild places in the west because it was too late to do so on the east coast. He was ahead of his time. It was the one of the most memorable experiences of my life, with the exception of my children's births, to have sat directly in front of him in the 1st row as he spoke.

Ed Jewett
08-11-2011, 04:16 AM
You just provided a description what I would call "socialist man".

The problem with computer gaming systems relates to the original post here describing her whistleblowing experience in the US Dept. of Ed where she discovered the plan to replace teachers with computers and have coaches, i.e. minimum wage paras, coach in computerized classrooms. That enables the oligarchy to spend more on preemtive wars to export more "inverted totalitarianism". See Princeton's Sheldon Wallin's work & his description of the destruction of not just democracy but politics by the national security state.


I respectfully disagree, in some general sense, but we are getting far afield from the topic of the thread (or even its sub-topics). I don't disagree with the last two sentences in which you discuss the oligarchy, pre-emptive wars, inverted totalitarianism, and the destruction of politics by the national security state. I am unfamiliar with Wallin's work but, on the surface, it sounds like I would agree with it.

But it appears that you have seized upon a very limited aspect of my description of a range of ideas about educational reform. I don't know what you define as "socialist man" I did try to find an acceptable definition of the term but found several of them, few of which I could actually understand; perhaps in a different place you can describe this type of individual, how he is trained or taught, what he is trained or taught, and how that works out for him. One book noted above is by Howard Gardner, a professor of the psychology of education at Harvard, who describes multiple intelligences and how they differ from person to person; we can't all be the same, and all low scores in one intelligence can't necessarily be altered significantly no matter how many highly-paid teachers or sophisticated teaching systems you throw at it.

I heard the other day about how much happier everyone was in a socialist government; I didn't get any clarification from that person either.

I don't suspect, as I did of him, that you are tossing the terminology around lightly. Are people who are "socialist men and women" competitive in a socialist society? Are they capable of being auto-didactic? Self-motivated? Does the system of socialism honor and allow for individual differentiation, personal sovereignty, and cognitive freedom? How does the "socialist man" make use of his talents and intelligences if all value belongs to the state? Is there no incentive? My daughter's teammates used to get angry because she went to the gym frequently -- an All-American in strength and conditioning -- and routinely -- by performance -- created pressure on them to do the same. At lower levels, they screamed at her not to throw the ball so hard. Are they "socialist" teammates?

With regard to past or current plans to replace classroom teachers, I have three reactions to your comments. The system addressed in the book I noted does not replace classroom teachers; it actually adds a layer of "coaches" who, by their very nature, must be super-prepared in terms of educational psychology and counseling, pre-testing (as opposed to post-testing), and in terms of a broad understanding about how knowledge is acquired, and are likely to have to be paid more, not less. Secondly, there are, whether we like it or not, elements of some education that can be handled adequately and arguably better than an average bipedal because, through systems, they can allow for more sophisticated personalization that allows the individual learner to proceed on a proper path that is fitted to them and their understanding and performance, and to proceed on that path more rapidly. Finally, with regard to teachers and whether they should be retained, paid, given job/social benefits, etc., how is the mass of them doing so far? How are they serving society and the individual?

I am not talking here about the current trends in educational systems management, Bush's No Child Left Behind and Obama's Race to the Top. That stuff sounds good on the campaign trail, in an Orwellian sound bite.

I am more concerned with the individual than the collective. The oligarchy wants sheep, robotic workers, people dumb enough to shut up, sit down, consume, and get to debt slavery jobs.

I am talking about the 8th grade teacher who, when asked about how my daughter might find some experience that would allow her to explore a possible love for animal care, didn't have an answer, didn't suggest that she would give it some thought, and couldn't name the two obvious answers we as parents had already considered. I am talking about middle school principals who leer at adolescent girls and make lewd jokes about them when they think no one can hear them. I am talking about high school officials, teachers, and others who favor their own children above others and get irritated when someone else comes along and takes the prize away from them on the basis of hard work.

I am talking about the high school baseball coach who, when asked by my son if he could be told when he would be on the pitching rotation so that a college coach could come and see him, was laughed out of the office. [The coach came and offered him a half-time scholarship for four years and he was a starting pitcher for a team that won the NE D-II league championship.] This is the same coach who forced him to undergo, as a catcher, a "balls in the dirt" drill run indoors on hardwood -- without a chest protector -- from which he came home covered with black-and-blue bruises all over his chest and arms.]

I am talking about a coach who told my daughter she might be lucky enough to win a partial scholarship at a small D-II school in New Hampshire but was unaware that she had the skills to be recruited in another sport by five or six top D-I schools, one of which invited her to apply as an honors student and then gave her a full four-year scholarship in athletics.

I am talking about teachers who tell their students they can't... when they should be telling their students they can, and will, and giving them the understanding of their own mind that will allow them to accomplish anything they choose to achieve. That doesn't sound like a socialist man or woman to me.

Gary Severson
08-11-2011, 04:33 AM
I don't want to pursue this on this thread but will say a few things. The Soviet athletes were very competitive as we saw in every Olympics. The Soviet system graduated 5 million HS students with 2 years of calculus because teachers were not allowed to use the fallacious concept of IQ as we do in this country. As a result student potentials were allowed to flower.

Magda Hassan
08-11-2011, 05:05 AM
I don't want to pursue this on this thread but will say a few things. The Soviet athletes were very competitive as we saw in every Olympics. The Soviet system graduated 5 million HS students with 2 years of calculus because teachers were not allowed to use the fallacious concept of IQ as we do in this country. As a result student potentials were allowed to flower.
Agreed Gary! There was much good in the Soviet education system. If you showed an aptitude in any area all resources were at your disposal to assist in blossoming and it benefited society as a whole.

Ed Jewett
08-12-2011, 03:47 AM
Magda and Gary: There are over two hundred source books (plus notes from about 20 hours of post-graduate classroom lecture) in "Summon The Magic". I look forward -- delivered in a new thread, or by PM or e-mail, but subject to publication -- to your explanations and support for the argument where, in all of that, there is any discussion about socialism, the state, duty to the state or the people of the state.

Have you read all 200 books? Do you have the list?

The mind-map for the totality of the concept is a graphic that links 226 key words; in those 226 words, how many of them have anything to do with the state, government, political systems or approaches, or society?

Gary Severson
08-12-2011, 12:28 PM
ED, with all do respect you say you don't know much about Marxism. How would you know then what a socialist person looks like? All the attributes you describe in your bibliography are indicative of the profile of "better" people. I do know something about many of these authors you cite and they are in many cases very liberal in their worldview and not averse to leftist politics. Of course that doesn't make them Marxists. Having said that I think the type of person that is educated to reach their personal potential includes the development of a greater appreciation for their fellow man. IOW "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country"

Magda Hassan
08-12-2011, 12:41 PM
Magda and Gary: There are over two hundred source books (plus notes from about 20 hours of post-graduate classroom lecture) in "Summon The Magic". I look forward -- delivered in a new thread, or by PM or e-mail, but subject to publication -- to your explanations and support for the argument where, in all of that, there is any discussion about socialism, the state, duty to the state or the people of the state.

Have you read all 200 books? Do you have the list?

The mind-map for the totality of the concept is a graphic that links 226 key words; in those 226 words, how many of them have anything to do with the state, government, political systems or approaches, or society?
Ed, I do not have the list. It may have been on my previous and now expired computer :damncomputer:

Ed Jewett
08-12-2011, 01:33 PM
ED, with all do respect you say you don't know much about Marxism. How would you know then what a socialist person looks like? All the attributes you describe in your bibliography are indicative of the profile of "better" people. I do know something about many of these authors you cite and they are in many cases very liberal in their worldview and not averse to leftist politics. Of course that doesn't make them Marxists. Having said that I think the type of person that is educated to reach their personal potential includes the development of a greater appreciation for their fellow man. IOW "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country"

But you're working from a very small sampling of the whole, and can't have any idea about the excerpts I selected from them, and certainly haven't read the "synthesis". You are working from within your own world view and extrapolating about something you can't have seen unless you know one of the few people who has seen the entirety of it; we're talking over 1,400 pages, not including appendices and adjuncts. The text alone represents, in single-sided format, three three-inch three-ring binders or, in digital format, an entire CD. As the major theme of the venture is in learning about how the unity of mind/body/spirit works and how one individual can improve that within themselves by understanding their minds, and given that at least four or five of the source books are from the worlds of the cognitive sciences (neuro-psychiatry, psychology, etc.), and given that every individual is unique in some way in their mix of nature (genetics) and nurture (learning environment), how is it that you can jump to a conclusion and apply a label?

Much of the world of "secret societies" is about how an individual can be shaped by training, experience and other psycho-drama that is imposed from without by others; indeed, we are immersed in propaganda, psycho-babble, poor understanding of how the human mind/experience works, and indeed its weaponization by "the state" for purposes as benign as marketing and advertising and as ugly as servitude through mind control.

How about if we teach individuals how to understand and decide for themselves how their mind should serve them as solitary sentient human beings? How about if we allow individuals to understand how to evolve their own world view from within themselves without interference from state, church, or others? Their baseline from birth to age _?_ is necessarily driven by parents, schools, etc. When and how do their begin their own God-given right to be independent and free?

I repeat the question and the challenge: Where, in your estimation, is there sentiment and suggestion for socialism in the synthesis or the source material?

Gary Severson
08-12-2011, 01:57 PM
400 some yrs. ago Benedict Spinoza posited the phrase "I am, therefore I think" in opposition to his contemporary Rene Descartes who had described a human as, "I think, therefore I am". IOW Spinoza solved the mind body split 400 yrs. ago and everything since is a footnote incld. your bibliography. Marx did his doctoral dissertation on Epicurus, the forerunner of Spinoza.

Ed Jewett
08-12-2011, 02:05 PM
So, in other words, the cognitive sciences have learned nothing in 400 years?

Gary Severson
08-12-2011, 02:20 PM
Isn't that a "strawman" argument response?

Charles Drago
08-12-2011, 02:45 PM
I refer you to "The Philosophers' Drinking Song"

Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant who was very rarely stable.
Heideggar, Heideggar was a boozy beggar who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel.
And Whittgenstein was a beery swine who was just as sloshed as Schlegel.
There's nothing Nieizsche couldn't teach 'ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed.
John Stewart Mill, of his own free will,
after half a pint of shanty wasparticularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away, half a crate of whiskey every day!
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
And Hobbes was fond of his Dram.
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart:
"I drink, therefore I am."
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.

Ed Jewett
08-12-2011, 03:18 PM
"'The Difference Between the Democritean and Epicurean Philosophy of Nature' is a book written by the German philosopher Karl Marx as his university thesis. Completed in 1841, it was on the basis of this work that he earned his Ph.D."

Is there a copy in English that can be acquired digitally or in print? Yes, right here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22759637/Karl-Marx-The-Difference-Between-the-Democritean-and-Epicurean-Philosophy-of-Nature

I shall endeavor to read it later, perhaps over a few bottles of Blackberry Witbier ["Being fond of alcoholic beverages, at Bonn [Marx] joined the Trier Tavern Club drinking society (Landsmannschaft der Treveraner) and at one point served as its co-president."] since the state of Massachusetts (once described as "The People's Republic of Cambridge"] may soon radically diminish the abilities of Sam Adams to brew such things.

"The essay has been described as "a daring and original piece of work in which he set out to show that theology must yield to the superior wisdom of philosophy"...[33]

From my bibliography:

Afterwards, You’re a Genius: Faith, Medicine and the Metaphysics of Healing, Chip Brown, Riverhead Books (Penguin Putnam), New York 1998. [A journalist, a skeptic by profession who, if he did not become a True Believer, at least came to understand that it starts with belief.

Awakening to the Sacred: Creating a Spiritual Life from Scratch, Lama Surya Das, Broadway Books, Random House, New York. 1999

Better, Atul Gawande, Henry Holt, Metropolitan, 2007. [Notable for a discussion about due diligence en route to positive deviance.]

Breakfast at the Victory: The Mysticism of Ordinary Experience, James P.. Carse, HarperOne, San Franciso, 1994. [A delightful read by a retired professor of the history of literature and religion.]

The Break-Out Principle, Herbert Benson, M.D. and William Proctor, Scribner, New York 2003. [How to activate your accessible biomechanical “trigger” to power up creativity, insight, stress-reduction, and top-notch performance, by the author of The Relaxation Response.]

Counter Clockwise: mindful health and the power of possibility, Ellen Langer, Ballantine Books, NY 2009.

Creativity: Where the Divine and the Human Meet, Matthew Fox, Tarcher/Putnam, New York 2002.

Emergence: The Connected Lives, of Ants, Brains, Cities and Software, Steven Johnson, Touchstone Books, 2002. [On the evolution of organizations.]

The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotions in the Making of Consciousness, Antonio Damasio, Harcourt, 1999.

God in Many Worlds: An Anthology of Contemporary Spiritual Writing, ed. by Lucinda Vardey, Pantheon Books, New York, 1995.



God and the Evolving Universe: The Next Step in Personal Evolution, by James Redfield, Michael Murphy and Sylvia Timbers, Tarcher/Putnam, New York 2002. [A profound book with a stunning premise, something more than just its thorough yet simple review of the wisdoms of sages, mystics and scientists, it is an exploration of the range of extraordinary capabilities available to the human body/mind/spirit, and it is a call to personal action. Redfield is the author of The Celestine Prophecy, The Tenth Insight and The Celestine Vision. Murphy, the founder of the Esalen Institute, is the author of In the Zone (with Rhea Murphy), The Future of the Body, and The Life We are Given (with George Leonard). Timbers has been involved in consciousness studies and training for 20 years and a multimedia producer of projects focused on psychological and spiritual development. The book also contains a 66-page guide to the literature of transformative practice and a 28-page series of simple suggested practices that will deepen anyone's abilities in personal development of body/mind/spirit unity.]

Healing Beyond the Body: Medicine and the Infinite Reach of the Mind, Larry Dossey, M.D., Shambhala, Boston 2001.

Hymns to an Unknown God: Awakening the Spirit In Everyday Life, Sam Keen, Bantam, NY 1995.

Liars, Lovers and Heroes: What the New Brain Science Reveals About How We Become Who We Are, Steven R. Quartz, Ph.D. and Terrence J. Sejnowski, Ph.D., HarperCollins/Wm. Morrow, New York 2002. [Quartz is the director of the Social Cognitive NeuroScience Lab at the California Institute of Technology. Sejnowski is regarded as the foremost theoretical brain scientist; he directs the Computational Biology Lab at the Salk Institute.]

Mind Wide Open: Your Brain and the Neuroscience of Everyday Life, Steven Johnson, Scribner, NY, 2004. [Neuroscience for the rest of us….]

Nature and the Human Soul: Cultivating Wholeness and Community in a Fragmented World, Bill Plotkin, New World Library, Novato, CA 2008. {A major work on developmental psychology and ecopsychology.]

The Re-Enchantment of Everyday Life, Thomas Moore, HarperPerennial 1997. [Written by a monk/theologist/psychologist, this is about the ways in which soulful living invests ordinary experiences with magic and enchantment.]

Shadow Culture: Psychology and Spirituality in America, Eugene Taylor, Counterpoint Press, Washington, DC 1999. [The author holds an MA in psychology and a PhD. in the history of philosophy and psychology, is a lecturer on psychiatry at Harvard, and is a senior psychologist at Massachusetts General, an author of books on William James as well as the psychology of spiritual healing, and is the chief instructor at the Harvard University Aikido Club.]

The Synaptic Self: How Our Brains Become Who We Are, Joseph LeDoux, Viking Books, New York 2002. [A synthesis of the latest insights from neuroscience.]

Thinking With Your Soul: Spiritual Intelligence and Why It Matters, 
Richard Wolman, Ph.D., Random House/Harmony Books, New York 2001.

A User's Guide to the Brain: Perception, Attention and the Four Theaters of the Brain, John J. Ratey, M.D., Random House/Pantheon, New York, New York 2001. [A fascinating book that ranges across the neurosciences, psychology, pharmacology, sociology, anthropology, linguistics, and education in the subjects of development, perception, attention, consciousness, movement, memory, emotion, language, the social brain, brain function, identity/behavior, and the care and feeding of the brain.] 



Walking in this World: The Practical Art of Creativity, Julia Cameron, Tarcher/Putnam 2002. [A follow-up to The Artists' Way, this book is about rediscovering our senses of origin, proportion, perspective, adventure, personal territory, boundaries, momentum, discernment, resiliency, camaraderie, authenticity and dignity. Her list of recommended reading is remarkable.]

A Way of Working (D. M. Dooling, editor), Anchor Books, 1979.

***

There's a lot of God, spirit, meditation, and theology in there for a book that is supposed to be about "socialist man" based on Marx. I don't see any references to Hegelianism, any works written by anyone listed in the Wikipedia entry that were inspired by him. It says in that Wikipedia entry that "Marx sees the social function of religion in terms of highlighting/preserving political and economic status quo and inequality", but perhaps you can enlighten me about how the books i have noted or the excerpts from them you cannot have seen highlights or preserves economic status quo and inequality.

Gary Severson
08-13-2011, 12:53 AM
I tried to respond to this post this morning but couldn't connect & then had to leave for the "state of usury", South Dakota. What I had said this morning went something like this.

Marx wasn't as irreligious as we think. Yes, he said "religion is the opiate of the people" and "the sigh of the oppressed". The fact that the Communist Party of the US (CPUSA-Marxist-Leninist) has a religion commission with clergymen from various faiths is some indication as to how complex Marxism is when it comes to religion. There is a line of thought from Epicurus through Spinoza to Marx. I see one of your biblio. books is by Antonio Dimasio. Much of Dimasio is related to Spinoza's ideas about the mind body split. The term pantheism was coined in 1805 to describe Spinoza's religious views. When Einstein was asked if he believed in God he said "yes, my god is the God of Spinoza". Einstein was a socialist.

Ed Jewett
08-13-2011, 12:59 AM
Magda and Gary: There are over two hundred source books (plus notes from about 20 hours of post-graduate classroom lecture) in "Summon The Magic". I look forward -- delivered in a new thread, or by PM or e-mail, but subject to publication -- to your explanations and support for the argument where, in all of that, there is any discussion about socialism, the state, duty to the state or the people of the state.

Have you read all 200 books? Do you have the list?

The mind-map for the totality of the concept is a graphic that links 226 key words; in those 226 words, how many of them have anything to do with the state, government, political systems or approaches, or society?
Ed, I do not have the list. It may have been on my previous and now expired computer :damncomputer:

The bibliography was posted at EPU, and has been sent tonight by e-mail. I tried putting the mind map into an online mind-mapping program but without much success. My old PC fried as well, so the old copies of the totality I had on CD are not going to be read easily on an iMac. I have been able to resurrect the preface, the biblio, the introduction, the mind map, and the expanded table of contents, and I still have the original text plus many of the appendices in print form. It will eventually all go online.

I did mention in the Evica WWUH recordings thread that the University of Hartford holds a special place in my heart. I drove down there one Saturday afternoon for a ballgame and somehow had the knowledge that something very special was to occur later that day. When I arrived, I hung a "poster" with one of the "nuggets" I had discovered on the back of the chain-link backstop where all the visiting players could read it; they all did. The catcher, who had been getting the nuggets all along, went 3-for-3 that day, tying an NCAA record with three home runs in three at-bats, one to left, one to center, and the last to right. The other team's catcher asked the player who went to the plate right after the third round-tripper and said "What on earth can you throw to this kid that she can't hit out of the park?"

The poster:

"If You Want to Achieve Excellence...

You must have total intention
to create it here and now.

Total intention is the powerful combination
of desire, belief and acceptance.

You must not only desire it,
but you must believe that you
are capable of bringing it about.

And you must be willing to accept
the positives and the responsibilities that will come when it arrives, as well as the responsibilities when it does not."

Thus ends this diversion from the original thrust of the thread.

Gary Severson
08-13-2011, 01:09 AM
I have a good memory from the U. of Hartford too. In 71 I went to a student gathering on campus. The attraction was the Yogi Maharishi Mahesh of Beatles fame. Whatever his shortcomings eventually were it was kind of a peak experience at the time. I wonder if GME was there at the time?

Ed Jewett
08-13-2011, 02:38 AM
I tried to respond to this post this morning but couldn't connect & then had to leave for the "state of usury", South Dakota. What I had said this morning went something like this.

Marx wasn't as irreligious as we think. Yes, he said "religion is the opiate of the people" and "the sigh of the oppressed". The fact that the Communist Party of the US (CPUSA-Marxist-Leninist) has a religion commission with clergymen from various faiths is some indication as to how complex Marxism is when it comes to religion. There is a line of thought from Epicurus through Spinoza to Marx. I see one of your biblio. books is by Antonio Dimasio. Much of Dimasio is related to Spinoza's ideas about the mind body split. The term pantheism was coined in 1805 to describe Spinoza's religious views. When Einstein was asked if he believed in God he said "yes, my god is the God of Spinoza". Einstein was a socialist.

Well, the great thing about Internet discussion is that it is asynchronous, so it doesn't really matter when you respond. Everyone has other things to do during the day and night.

Pulling the Damasio book off the shelf, I note that Spinoza is noted in the index of the 335-page book once, on page 25, with footnote to his book first published in 1677. The text on page 25 is about consciousness, and the paragraph reads as follows:


"Consciousness opens the possibility of constructing in the mind some counterpart to the regulatory specifications hidden in the brain core, a new way for the life urged to press its claims for the organism to act on them. Consciousness is the right of passage which allows an organism armed with the ability to regulate its metabolism, with inmate reflexes, and with a form of learning known as conditioning, to become a minded organism, the kind of organism in which responses are shaped by mental concern over the organism's own life. Spinoza said that the effort to preserve oneself is the first and unique foundation of virtue. Consciousness enables that effort."

I checked the index of "The Feeling of What Happens" for mentions of "socialism", "the state", the relationship of the self to the state, anything having to do with politics, anthropology, sociology, etc., as well as the table of contents, as well as the conclusion (especially the part "Where does consciousness fit in the grand scheme of things?" on page 309 ff and the graphic on page 310 of the upwardly-curving pathway from wakefulness through autobiographical self to creativity) and I found ... hold your breath, now... nothing.

Perhaps I can scan all the books and all the excerpts and feed them to the NSA computers for a linguistic, historical and etymological analysis and ask them to post the results here. Surely, being a good socialist state, the USofA would accede to the request in off hours; it ought to take their ganged Cray computers about 42 milliseconds and could be fit into the gaps of their ongoing surveillance of everything on the planet.

How is excellence (and the coaching and development of it) related to socialism? Why is it, apparently in your mind, necessary that it be applied to the state or the collective? It does not exclude ethics, or empathy.

The idea that Einstein was a socialist is about as relevant to the question of whether my synthesis of material is socialist as the notation that Candace Pert donated almost $2,000 to Hilary Clinton.

As it says in the "Intro" to my collection, borrowing from The Consultant's Guide to Excellence, by Wayne Halliwell, Ph.D., Terry Orlick, Ph.D., Kenneth Ravizza, Ph.D., and Bob Rotella, Ph.D., published by Orlick Excel, Chelsea, Quebec 1999:


People can be helped to become exceptional, to be the best that they can be, when they seize opportunities and find ways to enhance their own performance and their own lives by strengthening positive perspectives,
by learning skills that allow them to embrace the challenges of higher-level achievement, by developing effective strategies for pursuing their dreams, by harnessing their passion, and by becoming their own best coach.


"The reason that doubt is such an enemy is that it attacks the will itself. Anxiety and fear are emotional and psychological disturbances that make functioning more difficult, but doubt weakens the will, which is at the center of our being. Doubt can cripple a person's desired act, think or even to live.

To perpetrate dought in the educational system, or in parent-child or manager- employee relationships, is one of the most debilitating -–though often unconscious -–crimes against human potential.

The cost of not recognizing [and counteracting] this is high, not only for the individual but for the group or organization. When doubt becomes internalized norms, the spirit suffers, a sense of purpose decays, dignity declines, excellence and greatness going to hiding, and the seeds for decadence and failure are germinated." [W. Timothy Gallwey]

We are in a world, whether socialist, capitalist or other, in which fear and anxiety are routinely generated. Our collective sense of purpose has decayed, excellence is in hiding where US educational systems cannot create an individual who can make change accurately at a retail cash register with the help of a calculator.

Why do you persist in trying to label my work, my intent, and my application of that synthesis as socialist?

Well, somewhere else, my avatar is a piece of calligraphy by my first aikido sensei which connotes the idea that the solution is at the heart of the matter...

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/uploads/av-636.jpg

if we keep moving in dialogue and the spirit of the way of harmony in movement, we may arrive at it.

Is this (http://helpmejoseph.typepad.com/puma_for_life/2009/12/buddhist-libertarian-socialism-is-this-the-new-politics.html) it?

And is all this an antidote for the manure and the produce that comes out of secret societies?

If secret societies have really found an avenue to improved or enhanced society, why is it secret?

Gary Severson
08-13-2011, 05:32 PM
Ed, I'm not critical of your work as you seem to think. In fact I agree with the philosophies in most of your biblio. It seems though, your attitude toward Marxism is very negative and doesn't allow the possibility there could be other ways of interpreting the books in your list.

It seems to me Einstein the socialist has everythng to do with Spinoza and Dimassio. Dimassio has another book "Looking for Spinoza" which is an indication Spinoza is a very big part of Dimassio's attempt to deal with the mind/body problem. There doesn't have to be an obvious mention of socialism in any of these books for them to be related to the creation of socialist man. The attributes of a socialist man would be basically one who puts the welfare of others first. I don't know why you have such a negative view of that kind of person. Your emphasis on the individual as the locus of development suggests a connection to Objectivism as in Ayn Rand. That's just a thought but you seem to liberal to embrace her views.

Ed Jewett
08-13-2011, 07:22 PM
Ed, I'm not critical of your work as you seem to think. In fact I agree with the philosophies in most of your biblio. It seems though, your attitude toward Marxism is very negative and doesn't allow the possibility there could be other ways of interpreting the books in your list.

It seems to me Einstein the socialist has everythng to do with Spinoza and Dimassio. Dimassio has another book "Looking for Spinoza" which is an indication Spinoza is a very big part of Dimassio's attempt to deal with the mind/body problem. There doesn't have to be an obvious mention of socialism in any of these books for them to be related to the creation of socialist man. The attributes of a socialist man would be basically one who puts the welfare of others first. I don't know why you have such a negative view of that kind of person. Your emphasis on the individual as the locus of development suggests a connection to Objectivism as in Ayn Rand. That's just a thought but you seem to liberal to embrace her views.

Let's leave it with this, Gary; I don't think Einstein, Spinoza and Marx have anything to do with me or what I sensed, found or tried to do with this material. I've never read Ayn Rand (but there is an excerpt in STM about Frank Lloyd Wright about the creative process he used for Fallingwater which I recall came from a book she'd written about him). Do all Libertarians pray to Ayn Rand? Do all socialists celebrate Marx' birthday? I don't know (or care).

At my age, given what I've been through and what I am going through, given what is going on in this country and this world, given experiences in other online encounters, I am adverse to being labeled by anyone who doesn't know me or my experience when I have had a lifelong difficulty in labeling myself or in understanding labels and why people use them. The quote that stuck with me in 9th grade from a book of poetry I'd been given as a prize in a reading contest was this one:

"To be nobody-but-yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting."

If you define "socialist man" as someone who puts others welfare before their own, then I am a socialist man (or at least try to be, with the exceptional aside that one cannot be of benefit to others until and unless they take care of themselves).

I would call someone who puts others welfare first --- boy, do I hate labels -- (action counts more than words and labels) -- a Christian. Some of the books I have read in and around the survey of secret societies use the term "Christine" or -- capitalized or not -- a disciple of Christ.

I left organized Christianity at about age 16 -- gee, almost at the same time Kennedy was killed -- because the organized Christians seem to be busy doing other things, most of them deadly and injurious.

The last socialist Christian I met in person was when I got my copy of JFKU autographed by a simple but learned man who came in on crutches to deliver a talk on his book before returning to his Catholic Workers' service in Birmingham.

The Christ I think I understand is the one who taught something remarkably similar to the summoning of magic from within -- I refer you to Gaffney's "Gnostic Secrets" -- a something or other which enables seeing others immanently and which asks to be shared openly but which was forced into the closet by the political harnessing of religion by an empire (perhaps foreshadowing Evica's fifth essay, among other things).

If helping others capture and harness their personal power (leaving to them the decision about where and how to invest that personal power) makes me a socialist, then you can call me a socialist. But there's nothing in STM that suggests that true personal internal empowerment is to be harnessed in favor of the collective or the state.

I don't see that the collectivism or the state are busy helping accomplish the welfare of others other than a few oligarchs who have captured control of it. And I can't conceive why I or anyone else would want to assist in that enterprise when it is so destructive, immoral and evil.

Gary Severson
08-14-2011, 02:36 AM
You say let's leave it at that and then go on another rap about the issue exhibiting more of your lack of knowledge about socialism. I'm glad though you see the relationship between Xianity and socialism.

Ed Jewett
08-14-2011, 05:21 AM
You say let's leave it at that and then go on another rap about the issue exhibiting more of your lack of knowledge about socialism. I'm glad though you see the relationship between Xianity and socialism.

To call a parallel or some similarities (certainly non-existent in its practice by most Xtians, as you call them) a "relationship" is a gross mis-conflation.

Oh, wait, yes... The Gospel According to Marx was written two years after the Pentecost and sent by overland passage to a cave in a hillside overlooking the Moselle River where the reincarnation of Joseph of Arimathea discovered it and presented it to the son of a wealthy vintner who had a conversion epiphany...

No, wait. That's not it.

Jenny von Westphalen was really the reincarnated Mary Magdalene and used to whisper to Marx that that thing Jesus did with the five loaves and the two fish, as soon as he could figure out how to replicate it, could be "the lever of force" that would be needed to overcome any strong centralized state-focused traditions...

that while Jesus used to wander in the wilderness to hide from the authorities (he did, didn't he?), Marx could simply rent apartments using false names, and

that while Jesus was going to eventually get killed because he hid from the state, Marx would live twice as long and die from pleurisy and bronchitis.

No, wait... It's not that, either.

Mary Burns was the reincarnated wife of Joseph and swaddled Marx' vision that he himself saw the crowds and went up to a high spot and sat down and Engels, Georg Friedrich Herwegh, Heinrich Heine, August Herman Ewerbeck, Karl Wallau, Simon Buttermilch, Wilhelm Wolff, and Joachim Lewelel came and sat down with him, and Marx said:

"You get to God through social justice.

Direct knowledge of the Godhead comes through analysis and change of economics and politics. You must preach revolt against the state, the church, the family, legality, religion and property.

Your political emancipation requires a secular state, so you must give up your identity as my disciples.

Now go and wash your own feet."

Men who think they are better than God or who try to control environments or who try to manipulate or oppress…don’t they know that their efforts are futile? Without faith hope and love you simply replace one oppression with another. (http://www.rejesus.co.uk/blog/post/conversations_with_jesus_in_this_episode_jesus_mee ts_karl_marx/)

Magda Hassan
08-14-2011, 06:18 AM
I think a person can do much social good with out ever reading Marx or the bible or believing in god. And I've met a few like that. The bible, for me, is just a mishmash of allegorical stories and myths, some more inspirational than others, but an understanding of basic marxism is a good way understand the dynamics of a capitalist economic world view and how it can be changed. Which is why it is not taught in school unlike scripture.

Ed Jewett
08-14-2011, 07:59 AM
I think a person can do much social good with out ever reading Marx or the bible or believing in god. And I've met a few like that. The bible, for me, is just a mishmash of allegorical stories and myths, some more inspirational than others, but an understanding of basic marxism is a good way understand the dynamics of a capitalist economic world view and how it can be changed. Which is why it is not taught in school unlike scripture.

I agree. No one has to believe in god, or Christ, or Marx, or have either of them crammed down their throats. A good solid course in comparative politco-economics ought to be somewhere in the curriculum. Unfortunately, financial and economic illiteracy exists in volume here in the USofA. The Bible needs to be treated with the same eye for historical accuracy and examination as anything else but, for me, it's a matter of what resonates within, what has a ring of truth-value, what works in daily life at an inter-personal level. There are a dozen other belief structures as well, from Islam to Taoism to Buddhism and the one that will be invented tomorrow by some thundering glazed-eye Shaker, Quaker, Mormon, Scientologist, or Alpha Centaurian break-away. One can be a disciple, but the most effective belief may be related to self-discipline.

I just bought Sweet Heaven When I Die: Faith, Faithlessness, and the Country In Between, the new book by Jeff Sharlet. (I still haven't read the first two yet.) And Amazon does have a book called "Marx for Beginners".

Magda Hassan
08-14-2011, 09:44 AM
I just bought Sweet Heaven When I Die: Faith, Faithlessness, and the Country In Between, the new book by Jeff Sharlet. (I still haven't read the first two yet.) And Amazon does have a book called "Marx for Beginners".
Love Jeff Sharlet. If the Marx book is by Ruis/Ruiz get it because it is a great little book.

Ed Jewett
08-14-2011, 10:10 AM
I just bought Sweet Heaven When I Die: Faith, Faithlessness, and the Country In Between, the new book by Jeff Sharlet. (I still haven't read the first two yet.) And Amazon does have a book called "Marx for Beginners".
Love Jeff Sharlet. If the Marx book is by Ruis/Ruiz get it because it is a great little book.

That's the one. Next batch, just for you. :wavey:

Jan Klimkowski
08-14-2011, 01:06 PM
I think a person can do much social good with out ever reading Marx or the bible or believing in god. And I've met a few like that. The bible, for me, is just a mishmash of allegorical stories and myths, some more inspirational than others, but an understanding of basic marxism is a good way understand the dynamics of a capitalist economic world view and how it can be changed. Which is why it is not taught in school unlike scripture.

Amen to that. :pope: :unclesam:

Charles Drago
08-14-2011, 01:52 PM
Religion is politics by other means.

Religion is a fear/reward-based control system.

Organized religions are conspiratorial in nature; their similar structures may be best understood via the application of the Sponsor/Facilitator/Mechanic model.

Religion targets the spiritual impulse, manipulating and ultimately endeavoring to corrupt and destroy it.

My knowledge and acceptance of the reality that we are not human beings having spiritual experiences, but rather spiritual beings having human experiences, exist in spite of religion.

Gary Severson
08-14-2011, 03:27 PM
"I am therefore I think" Spinoza & Drago

Charles Drago
08-14-2011, 03:30 PM
Perhaps.

Sounds like a comedy team.

Take my life ... please.

But the billing ... I would have hoped for alphabetical.

Gary Severson
08-14-2011, 03:37 PM
Yes "Drago & Spinoza" sounds better, I agree.

Gary Severson
08-14-2011, 04:11 PM
Ed, I just noticed that in post 38 in this thread you said you are familiar with the left since you were a member of the "old left". Someplace else in this thread you said you didn't know anything about Marxism. How could you be in the old left and not?

Ed Jewett
08-15-2011, 12:46 AM
I guess, Gary, because Marxism didn't seem right for the left I was in. Or maybe I wasn't in the old left, maybe it was the left of the late 60's that morphed into a job, a career of sorts, marriage, parenthood, etc., during which there was little room left for grand debates about political philosophy. Maybe your left is far more left or extremist than the left I thought I was in. I didn't and don't subscribe to aggressive or violent actions, or even dialogue.

Is it that you want me to be a socialist or Marxist? Are you a socialist or Marxist?

Is it your purpose to divert the thread or my attention (or that of others) from the discussion of secret societies and their historical role? Is this content matter off limits as other content matter is off limits in other places and times?

Magda Hassan
08-15-2011, 01:28 AM
I met plenty of CPUSSR people who appeared to have little to no idea about Marxism despite rising through the ranks.

Ed, don't take it as a personal insult if some one thinks you are a Marxist or socialist. It is a compliment even if not intended that way and I don't think Gary is baiting you at all. I know Americans are touchy about it though. Like a visceral reaction from the underlying cultural indoctrination.

And Gary, being a socialist can also be in your heart and not in your head. Ed is coming from his heart.

Gary Severson
08-15-2011, 02:36 AM
Right Ed, the "new left" was the 60s and the hippie part was basically apolitical. Side by side with the hippies were the New Left Marxists like SDS etc. As far as diverting attention from secret societies I don't think that is what I am doing because in effect in this country you have to function in a secret society sort of way if you are a communist/Marxist/socialist. If you want to work you have to live 2 lives. Of course there are exceptions.


I guess, Gary, because Marxism didn't seem right for the left I was in. Or maybe I wasn't in the old left, maybe it was the left of the late 60's that morphed into a job, a career of sorts, marriage, parenthood, etc., during which there was little room left for grand debates about political philosophy. Maybe your left is far more left or extremist than the left I thought I was in. I didn't and don't subscribe to aggressive or violent actions, or even dialogue.

Is it that you want me to be a socialist or Marxist? Are you a socialist or Marxist?

Is it your purpose to divert the thread or my attention (or that of others) from the discussion of secret societies and their historical role? Is this content matter off limits as other content matter is off limits in other places and times?

Ed Jewett
08-15-2011, 04:15 AM
Thank you, Magda. My experience and my reading suggests that coming from the hrit, the hara, and the self is the only functional way to approach things; otherwise you get twisted up in psycho-dynamic games, word games, intrigues, lies and secret nuances and understandings, all of which are sure -- over time -- to trip you up, screw you up, and screw you over. As for the cultural indoctrination, you are likely right on, from an educational POV, a social/cultural/mediated POV, from the fact that my father was a dyed-in-the-wool conservative Republican.

Gary, I'm not sure I was a hippie of the 60's, but I probably was. I didn't dive too deep, turned back east instead of traveling to Haight-Ashbury in the summer of 67, didn't understand or like the Grateful Dead for a very long time, sampled them later, liked some of the improvisational/jam nature of the music, dropped them in favor of more sublime things like Keith Jarrett, etc.

At the tale end of 1966, I was enrolled in a student ROTC unit that was a "wannabe" Green Berets outfit, volunteered as a writer for the student newspaper and as a news director at the student radio station where I heard and interviewed a lot of people in the middle of the ongoing daily debate (and protests), and roomed with a fellow who was a conscientious objector, a Christian, the son of a German engineer who escaped Nazism, and a member of SDS. He and I traveled with a group of kids to a famous event in New York which featured the burning of a draft card. One might say the room mate had a profoundly deep effect on me; one could call it transformational. He (with a final swat from my high school English teacher) convinced me to not volunteer for that ROTC unit again. Its activities and the results of its training seen in the flesh in another individual convinced me to turn away from war and violence of any sort. I named my first born son after him.

But in all that time (certainly two years at its most intense stage), I never once heard anything about Marx or Marxism or socialism beyond a simple mention. If there was a presence, it was not a strong one, or "marketed" very effectively.

The very idea that someone should have to have two lives strikes me as quite possibly destructive in a psychic, somatic way at a personal (internal) level; it is akin to self-compartmentalization, a very distant relative of disassociation, quite possibly a source of dis-ease. [Please assure yourself that there is no hidden inference in that statement.]

“All secret societies are conspiratorial factions aimed at achieving goals that, by definition, are contrary to the public interest as determined by citizens in an open society. As Madison says, no faction can be allowed to be a judge in its own cause, because his interest would certainly bias its judgment and corrupt its integrity. And, as Karl Popper says, freedom is impossible unless it is guaranteed by the state; any secret society that weakens the rule of law, creates inequalities among citizens by illegal means, or frustrates legitimate aims of Democratic policy weakens a democratic republic and its objective of guaranteeing freedom to its citizens. Logically, then, secret societies are threats to democratic societies.… The real threats to the American democracy… come from the misuse of political and economic power by an undemocratic wealthy elitist clique of materialist ideologues in secret cabals at the highest levels of Merrick in society."

I'm sure to draw the ire of Charles Drago when I point out that the author of the above quote is Ralph E Bunch
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Bunche ], an emeritus professor of the department of political science at Portland State University, who served 16 years his book review editor for the International Journal of Comparative Sociology. The quote comes from pages 70 and 71 in Millegan's “Fleshing Out Skull and Bones”, in a short essay entitled “Secrecy in our Constitution: Whom Do They Serve?”, and whose epigraph contains the following language: “The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings…” Bunch was awarded the Medal of Freedom in 1963 for his role in the formation and administration of the United Nations. He served as contributing editor of the journal Science and Society: A Marxian Quarterly.

In 2004, Ralph Bunche was posthumously honored with the William J. Donovan Award from The OSS Society.

Gary, please take none of this as a personal attack on you or your beliefs or political leanings. Today, in this United States, we can get into a lot of trouble by simply growing our own vegetables in a front-yard garden, or by selling someone raw milk. You have heard of the many lists; I am probably on at least one of them.

The question postulated by Millegan in the preface to his edited "Fleshing Out..." asks the question "Do these secret societies create and play both sides in controlled conflicts to produce outcomes to further [the designs of a small unknown group?]" (Yes, he calls it the New World Order.)

The questions I have are simply these: How can an individual choose in a meaningful way a candidate for high office, the right economic or financial path for self or family, the right school to educate their child, or anything of meaning in life if it is already controlled by someone else for hidden designs and purposes? And what should an individual do in order to counteract this apparent truth?

Gary Severson
08-16-2011, 01:10 AM
Ed ,you mention there was no very visible ref. to Marxism by your SDS roommate. At North Dakota in the late 60s I had Marxist professors. I spent time short times at Berkeley & San Diego State. Those places were even more steeped in Marxism especially Herbert Marcuse at SD State @ La Jolla. I'm not sure what you mean by your experience, i.e. just because you didn't run across Marxism it didn't exist in the student movement?

Ed Jewett
08-16-2011, 03:46 AM
Yeah, I guess when I was in Iowa the summer after my freshman year trying to earn money to return to school, I should have hitch-hiked to Berkeley.

ex·pe·ri·ence/ikˈspi(ə)rēəns/
Noun: Practical contact with and observation of facts or events.
Verb: Encounter or undergo (an event or occurrence).

Magda Hassan
08-16-2011, 04:21 AM
Pssst... I bet there are some in Ohio too :curtain: Just not advertising it.

Gary Severson
08-16-2011, 10:19 AM
The post should have read U.of Calif.,not San Diego State


Ed ,you mention there was no very visible ref. to Marxism by your SDS roommate. At North Dakota in the late 60s I had Marxist professors. I spent time short times at Berkeley & U.Calif.@San Diego. Those places were even more steeped in Marxism especially Herbert Marcuse at @ La Jolla. I'm not sure what you mean by your experience, i.e. just because you didn't run across Marxism it didn't exist in the student movement?

Ed Jewett
10-12-2011, 02:39 AM
"On one crucial point, a powerful Congressional committee seeking ways to reduce the federal budget deficit has managed to produce a rare bipartisan consensus: Republicans and Democrats, liberals and conservatives in and out of Congress say the panel is doing too much of its work in secret."


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/us/politics/deficit-reduction-panel-is-criticized-for-its-secrecy.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&ref=us&adxnnlx=1318386796-+ZE0zd0NT6n72fH5gD5Maw


And it's chaired by a member of the most famous secret society of all ... one sanctioned by both parties.

Ed Jewett
12-05-2011, 03:28 AM
It's been a year since we last visited this thread? (Well, the smoke has cleared, anyway.) I know that one of our members recently acquired many of the books noted but we'll let more time pass before additional comment, and I'll let that individual speak directly. There is much annotated text to be posted, but I'll refrain for the moment...

Right now, I simply want to post (as reference to yet another member's PM's) a photo of a sinister individual with whom I have crossed paths in the past. We can properly call him a poster boy for the kind of thing you can read about in Levenda's trilogy.

3346

Ed Jewett
12-05-2011, 08:59 PM
I have just reviewed the entire thread and will state the following:

I have begun to post the material I have collected which I have labeled "Summon The Magic" online;
summonthemagic: Introduction (http://summonthemagic.blogspot.com/2011/11/introduction.html). There are over 30 entries already.

I have placed, into my Amazon cart, the book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.

Based on the information here http://www.julianjaynes.org/bicameralmind.php (the excerpt from the intro at the bottom of the first page), it looks like an interesting read but may differ from the totality of STM because the sources in STM suggest (and I can be specific) that an individual can and must take an active role in understanding, developing and using his own consciousness.

Charles Drago
12-05-2011, 09:25 PM
Oddly synchronistic that you should reference the Jaynes book now.

Tomorrow night I'll have the great pleasure of hearing the most important jazz alto saxophonist currently working -- in my less-than-humble but well-informed opinion.

Bob Mover is appearing with Esperanza Spaulding -- whom he "discovered" in NYC a few years ago -- at the University of Rhode Island.

More to the point of this thread: Bob and I are contemporaries -- brothers from separate mothers, actually. About 25 years ago he and I discovered that we had read Jaynes years before, and that we were "depressed" by his conclusions.

It is high time, if you'll excuse the expression, that I revisit the book.

And yes, by all means find Bob Mover on YouTube; his best work is NOT captured there, alas. But there's enough present to get my point across.

Ed Jewett
12-05-2011, 09:42 PM
Charles, your opinion on jazz (and other matters) is always welcome. I trust you will take a camcorder and make a product you can post. I shall move to look for Mover.

Ed Jewett
12-06-2011, 03:27 AM
Synchronicity is in abundance tonight, so I will post this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifOU_4mobH8 as per CD above, and, keeping on topic with regard to that which has been introduced or discussed in this thread, I offer the goodie below with a specific reference to the book "A Certain Arrogance", its title, theme and essays.

If anyone should doubt the material in the book, here is a memo (courtesy of Cryptome two nnights ago: December 3, 2011 (2.6MB) ) that will lend support. Entitled Central Intelligence Group Directive #15 and dated 1 October 1946, it concerns

"EXPLOITATION OF AMERICAN BUSINESS CONCERNS AND SCIENTIFIC, EDUCATIONAL AND RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS WITH CONNECTIONSABROAD AND AMERICAN RESIDENTS .TRAVELLING ABROAD AS SOURCES OF FOREIGN -INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION .
Memorandum by the Director of Central Intelligence, with the Unanimous Concurrence of the Intelligence Advisory Board including the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation


http://cryptome.org/0005/CIGD-15.pdf

Jan Klimkowski
12-06-2011, 09:44 PM
More to the point of this thread: Bob and I are contemporaries -- brothers from separate mothers, actually. About 25 years ago he and I discovered that we had read Jaynes years before, and that we were "depressed" by his conclusions.



Yes, Jaynes' bicameral mind hypothesis conjures up sleek black hounds howling on a chill night....

David Guyatt
12-13-2014, 03:22 PM
A most interesting interview that I hadn't seen before. She clearly, I think, was the original source of source of insider material for Antony Sutton's book on the Order. She confirms the direct connection between the Order and Bohemian Grove, and shows the direct transmission of the German Illuminati via Wundt to todays US education system.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6X8YgCBV8o

About Charlotte Iserbyt - partial extract from Wiki:


Charlotte Thomson IserbytFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt is an American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) freelance writer who served as the Senior Policy Advisor in the Office of Educational Research and Improvement (OERI), U.S. Department of Education, during the first term of U.S. President Ronald Reagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan), and staff employee of the U.S. Department of State (South Africa, Belgium, South Korea).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-inter-2)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-MCAT-3) She was born in 1930[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-ReferenceA-4) and attended Dana Hall preparatory school (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Hall_School) and Katharine Gibbs College (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbs_College) in New York City, where she studied business.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-ReferenceA-4) Iserbyt's father and grandfather were Yale University graduates and members of the Skull and Bones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones) secret society.
She is known for writing the book The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America. The book reveals that changes gradually brought into the American public education system work to eliminate the influences of a child's parents (religion, morals, national patriotism), and mold the child into a member of the proletariat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat) in preparation for a socialist-collectivist world of the future.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-MCAT-3) She says that these changes originated from plans formulated primarily by the Andrew Carnegie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Carnegie) Foundation for the Advancement of Education and Rockefeller General Education Board (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Education_Board), and details the psychological methods used to implement and effect the changes.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-MCAT-3)
In an interview[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-inter-2) concerning secret societies and the elite agenda she disclosed that in the early 1980s she had a chance to meet with Norman Dodd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Dodd) who had been the chief investigator for the United States House Select Committee to Investigate Tax-Exempt Foundations and Comparable Organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Committee_to_Investigat e_Tax-Exempt_Foundations_and_Comparable_Organizations) commonly known as the B. Carroll Reece Committee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reece_Committee). In the video interview she claims that Dodd discussed a 'network' of individuals including Carnegie who planned to bring about world peace by means of rapid changes in society. These changes would be brought about by involving the populace in various wars and military conflicts. She further claimed that Dodd had discussions with Rowan Gaither (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowan_Gaither), the president of the Ford Foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Foundation) in which he revealed that directives from the President of the United States compelled foundations related to the Ford Foundation to direct their funding into bringing about the merger of the USA with the Soviet Union.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-Griffin2-5)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-Griffin3-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Thomson_Iserbyt#cite_note-Monteith-7)

Proofs of a Conspiracy by John Robinson (which Charlotte Iserbyt references in her interview) can be downloaded as a .pdf HERE (http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/PROOFS_OF_A_CONSPIRACY_John_Robison.pdf).

Charles Keeble
12-13-2014, 08:07 PM
I haven't seen that one before. Watching now.

The Vernon Stauffer book pictured at 2:20 can be found here:

http://ssoc.selfip.com:81/texts/1918__stauffer___new_england_and_the_bavarian_illu minati.pdf

I wonder sometimes if the murder of William Morgan shortly before skull & bones was formed, was a manufactured event whose purpose was to cause a great many Masons to flee, creating a vacuum to be filled by others

aSK, yoU'LL Be ONE

Drew Phipps
12-13-2014, 08:35 PM
Neil Bush (the other Bush son) has a business called Ignite! Software which sells educational software.

Magda Hassan
12-13-2014, 11:52 PM
I merged this thread with the existing one of the same subject.

Charles Keeble
12-14-2014, 04:49 PM
Some Bush born in 1943 in Argentina from the S&B list shown at 47:09:

BUSH, 1967, Derek G.--Born Oct 15, 1943, Buenos Aires, Argentina, S.A.; m. June 15, '68, Emily Blair Chewning.