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Thread: Clay Shaw

  1. Default

    Tom:

    I am not defensive at all.

    When you say that Carpenter missed none of this, my question is "None of what?"

    I mean, I can understand Carpenter doing something like this "Six Degrees of Separation" to cast doubt on Garrison-- I mean he had an agenda to fulfill. But you?

    And why completely ignore my main point?

    Do you or Carpenter really think that Garrison did not have the right people in New Orleans? I think that is ridiculous. Especially in light of all that we have learned since the seventies. And which I listed some of above. I mean, to take one more example besides Banister: why would Ferrie try and eliminate the evidence of his relationship to Oswald in the CAP within 48 hours of the assassination? To the point of calling people in the CAP to find the picture depicting him and Oswald? Why would Shaw then tell so many lies on the stand?

    Tom, I have been dueling with these anti Garrison types for a very long time--actually decades. If you read my review of Jeff Caufield's piece of junk, you will see my latest round. In each and every case, they use the same tactics--they try and distract, they smear, they leave out crucial information. And that's Carpenter also.

    Its really odd that you trusted him over me.

  2. #52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Scully View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DiEugenio View Post
    Tom:

    I stand by what I said.

    I thought the first part of your post was interesting, about Lemman etc Steve and Monte.

    I have no idea what you were talking about later on. I don't buy Carpenter's book, and I have explained why here. I talked to Wallace Milam about Carpenter. So I know what he was up to.

    Its pretty clear who directed Nicolas isn't it? I mean Monroe and Lemman was the official CIA clandestine payment center for New Orleans, and they paid for the defense of some of Garrison's suspects and they supplied Sheridan with money to bribe others and to pay for the production of what was once a two part special. I mean you have read the Fred Leemans affidavit in my book? (Destiny Betrayed 2013, pgs. 240-41)

    Unlike Carpenter, I don't believe for five seconds that Garrison did not have the right people in New Orleans: Banister, Shaw and Ferrie. And since David Phillips was:

    1. Likely in Banister's office to promote a city wide telethon with Butler and Novel

    2. In charge of the CIA's anti FPCC campaign, and likely gave Banister the flyers Oswald handed out--since they were out of print for two years but the CIA ordered them in 1961

    3. Was seen at a training camp in the New Orleans area with Banister and Oswald

    Then not only did he have the right people in New Orleans (and I did not even mention Sergio Arcacha Smith who reportedly had diagrams of the sewer system beneath Dealey Plaza in his apartment in Dallas), JG was one step away from the next level of the plot.

    I discuss all of these evidentiary points in my book. Which, if you ever read, you forgot about once you read Carpenter's abject apologia. Which I stopped reading once I saw what he did with Shaw in the military vs. the revelations of the Bacque book.
    Jim, you're the expert, pardon me.....
    Say what you will about Carpenter.... but he missed none of this,
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-k...nCarpenter.jpg
    ...or this,
    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6...rCarpenter.jpg

    I found every detail in the two images in the two preceding links, independently, and then I found Carpenter's research. He added one
    more detail, that David Baldwin (and his brother, Atty Edward Baldwin) was not only Lee Garrison's first cousin, but also her godfather, and that Baldwin had informed Shaw of these details in a letter to Shaw dated one day after Shaw's arrest.




    SS Chief Rowley spelled the name wrong… McChann, and has the subject’s age wrong (too young) by at least five years…..reported as age 26 in 1964:
    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...eId=2&tab=page
    Commission Document 945 - SS Rowley Letter of 5 May 1964 re: Walter J. McChann, pg 2
    Found in: Warren Commission Documents
    ....but that he always felt that Colonel Castor was "playing the role of an intelligence officer" in his contacts with the Cubans; that he seems to be more interested....

    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...h=intelligence
    Orleans Parish Grand Jury Testimony of Harold Weisberg, 28 Apr 1967, pg 57
    Found in: Orleans Parish Grand Jury Transcripts
    the Secret Service Col. Castor's actions are consistent with that of an Intelligence Agent. These things I knew but who Col. Castor was I didn't know until....

    http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/rich_n.htm
    TESTIMONY OF NANCY PERRIN RICH

    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...rg_and%20nancy
    Orleans Parish Grand Jury Testimony of Harold Weisberg, 28 Apr 1967, pg 56
    Found in: Orleans Parish Grand Jury Transcripts
    all part of the Odio story. Q. Does he say at all that the Col. described Nancy (inaudible) A. I don't think so but this is one of the things I want to find....


    Date: Thursday, April 23, 1964 Paper: Times-Picayune



    Two years after the announcement in the image directly above by Stephen B Lemann, Weisberg testimony to NOLA Grand Jury.:
    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...51&search=find


    Dallas Catholic Group Aids Cuban Refugees
    Date: Saturday, March 31, 1962 Paper: Dallas Morning News


    I am extremely disappointed in your defensive reaction, Jim. I'm one of your paid readers. I purchased your book. I'm sharing what I find, with you.
    You've had a choice. Instead of a discussion, you lecture me and lash out at Carpenter. "Haven't you read my book?" is not an adequate response to what I've presented to you, especially considering;
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Scully View Post
    .......
    https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Un...ranscript.html
    Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen

    Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK's Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006.
    .......
    Rex: Joan..... One, there's a story in the Grand Jury testimony told by three different parties involving Sheridan when he came out to do his NBC White Paper, having a meeting set up with an organized crime figure named Zachary Strate that was apparently set up by either Malcolm O'Hara, a judge who was a political enemy of Garrison's, and a lawyer named Edward Baldwin. I wonder if you might tell that story about what that meeting was all about?...

    ......

    JOAN: - when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people. Malcolm O'Hara is sitting there - he doesn't know what hit him - and eventually Strate did not cooperate, and he went up there, and he attacked Sheridan - of course, Sheridan had immunity - nothing anyone could say about Sheridan whether in court, affidavits signed against Sheridan, Sheridan had immunity as a National Security Agency asset, cleared for FBI work, cleared for CIA work, working for the Department of Justice -......
    .......
    Stephen B. Lemann's nephew Nicholas "hit" Garrison in 1974 in the Harvard Crimson, and again in late 1991 in GQ Magazine. Perry Russo gave a stronger and more convincing response to any Lemann than Garrison ever did. : http://www.leagle.com/decision/19921...20PUBLICATIONS

    Here is the only direct response from Garrison, that I can identify.:

    http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/co...comment-858943
    ..........
    2of2 Garrison 06/67 letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde
    (Top of right side column)
    …of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency….


    In this area, Donald H Carpenter has done more comprehensive research than I have been able to do. On my own, I am impressed that both Garrison and Shaw could take a punch..... The ability of either to throw punches is another matter entirely. I have to leave open the possibility that Garrison and Shaw served the same master(s). It is a reasonable reaction to what I've learned, despite how absurd it may seem to readers heavily invested in a fixed conclusion. Was Oliver Stone "fleeced" by Garrison, or did Garrison present everything to Sklar and Shaw that I have been sharing with you?

    Judging by Sklar's response to Nicholas B. Lemann, I think not.:
    (It seems Sklar took the gloves off for this response to Lemann's GQ article, or indicates Sklar was not witting to the depth of
    Nicholas B Lemann's knowledge, but Garrison certainly was.)
    https://archive.org/stream/nsia-Ston...00930_djvu.txt
    Letters to GQ - For the Defense
    Editor’s note:. Nicholas Lemann’s essay “The
    Case Against Jim Garrison” [January] in-
    spired more letters than any article we have
    published in recent years, almost all of them
    critical of Lemann’s argument. The most com-
    prehensive of these letters is the following, from
    journalist and screenwriter Zachary Sklar.................
    (See Letters to GQ, http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Stone%20Oliver%20JFK%20Movie/Gentleman's%20Quarterly/Item%2002.pdf
    An excerpt from the introduction to Lemann’s lengthy response.:
    …Printing both sides of the story has never been a
    fundamental rule of magazine journalism.
    Magazines are supposed to be feisty and opin-
    ionated. So it’s with a sense of futility that I
    rebut Sklar’s points…

    Wow! It's a scary thing when folks even know how many peanuts are packed in Shaw's crap! Scary!

  3. #53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DiEugenio View Post
    Tom:

    I am not defensive at all.

    When you say that Carpenter missed none of this, my question is "None of what?"

    I mean, I can understand Carpenter doing something like this "Six Degrees of Separation" to cast doubt on Garrison-- I mean he had an agenda to fulfill. But you?

    And why completely ignore my main point?

    Do you or Carpenter really think that Garrison did not have the right people in New Orleans? I think that is ridiculous. Especially in light of all that we have learned since the seventies. And which I listed some of above. I mean, to take one more example besides Banister: why would Ferrie try and eliminate the evidence of his relationship to Oswald in the CAP within 48 hours of the assassination? To the point of calling people in the CAP to find the picture depicting him and Oswald? Why would Shaw then tell so many lies on the stand?

    Tom, I have been dueling with these anti Garrison types for a very long time--actually decades. If you read my review of Jeff Caufield's piece of junk, you will see my latest round. In each and every case, they use the same tactics--they try and distract, they smear, they leave out crucial information. And that's Carpenter also.

    Its really odd that you trusted him over me.
    Jim, are you really not getting this? You seem to be attempting to change the entire point. Twice now you emphasize you disagree with author Donald H Carpenter,

    ....Do you or Carpenter really think that Garrison did not have the right people in New Orleans?
    These are the steps I progressed through.:

    1.) I tried to find out the background, motivation, and sponsorship of Ed Butler and was there a direct, identifiable connection to the CIA.

    2.) Butler's background led me to Jesse R Core III, and Core to David G Baldwin, Core and Baldwin to Shaw, Baldwin to CIA.

    3.) I find Nicholas B. Lemann's late 1991 article published in GQ Magazine, obviously a counter to the December 21 theater release of Stone's film. I find that Lemann does not disclose his uncle Stephen's or his father Thomas's roles with WDSU or intel Garrison developed on Stephen Lemann's relationship with CIA. I post a question to you about your knowledge of Nicholas's background.:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DiEugenio View Post
    Tom S.:

    In reply to your number 24 above, yes I was aware of that.

    Nicolas Lemann was the nephew of Steve Lemann, of the law firm Monroe and Lemann.

    That very powerful law firm was the firm representing WDSU, the NBC outlet in New Orleans owned by the wealthy Stern family which was one of the biggest supporters of Shaw/Bertrand at the time.

    WDSU was the outlet that Walter Sheridan worked with in New Orleans while assembling his, originally two part, hatchet job on Garrison.

    Because it was originally scheduled as two parts, Sheridan got money from the CIA which was laundered through Monroe and Lemann. (Destiny Betrayed, second edition, p. 238)


    And yes I was also aware of Nicolas Lemann's ascension through the power elite after that article. An ascension which is not at all merited by his own work or talents.

    So the answer to your question is that, yes they really are that good and they really are that dedicated to preserving their own power.

    BTW, you might want to ask how I found out that Nicolas Lemann was Steve Lemann's nephew. I am not a genealogist like you are. So when the article came out, I smelled a rat somewhere. So I called up Monroe and Lemann and I asked if Nicolas was any relation to the co founder of the firm. The secretary gave me the bad news, "Oh, that's his nephew."

    I got a little sick to my stomach. These guys are really serious.
    4.) I discover that David Baldwin's wife is step-sister of Stephen and Thomas Lemann. Baldwin's mother-in-law is step-grandmother of Nicholas
    B. Lemann

    5.) I find the May 24, 1967, William Martin memo in a folder in the John Armstrong collection at Baylor's Pogue Library, through cites in the books by you and Joan Mellen.:


    6.) I discover through my own genealogical research that the Baldwin brothers' mother Adele Ziegler Baldwin Raworth was the aunt of
    Garrison's wife, Leah Elizabeth Ziegler Garrison. On Jan. 29, 2016, I write an article (Omissions of Jim Garrison, dean emeritus Nicholas Lemann, and the CIA) and put it in the pending article queue at JFKfacts.org.
    I ask Jeff Morley not to publish it on the site until I can confirm the details of links of Garrison's antagonists to his in-laws is original research.

    7.) I find that Donald H Carpenter has published the links between the Baldwins and the Lemanns and also the revelation through a letter in
    the Shaw papers donated to NARA, that David Baldwin wrote to Shaw on the day after Shaw's arrest, informing Shaw that Baldwin was godfather and first cousin of Garrison's wife. - https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6...rCarpenter.jpg

    8.) Yesterday I found that Stepen B Lemann announced in mid 1965 the hiring of Walter Joseph Machann, the elusive Dallas RC priest tracked
    down and interviewed by the SS for the WC, probably to avoid linking this FBI informant (Father Machann) of activities of Sylvia Odio and Dallas Cubans, to details in FBI records, as field coordinator of a NOLA mental health program Lemann was president of, from 1964. The SS report misspelled Machann's name and gave his age as 26 in 1964, despite his 1949 graduation from Jesuit H.S. in Dallas and his ordination as an RC
    priest in May, 1967. Lemann's announcement of the appointment of Machann in 1965 makes no mention of his Dallas origin or priestly past.

    Neither Garrison or Clay Shaw ever revealed any of the above, and the only attempt Garrison ever made to implicate Stephen B Lemann was
    describing him, and his role, but not naming him. This is why I posted that both men demonstrated the ability to pull their punches.

    http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/co...comment-858943
    ..........
    2of2 Garrison 06/67 letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde
    (Top of right side column)
    …of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency….
    Stephen B Lemann's nephew attacked Garrison in 1974 and in late 1991.:
    http://www.thecrimson.com/article/19...d-fall-of-big/
    The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G.
    Politics

    By Nicholas Lemann, February 6, 1974
    ..........
    But because his career has been so bizarre, it's not likely that anyone will ever herald Garrison as a champion of New South politics.....
    http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/co...comment-851438
    ........
    The 1991 movie release, JFK sparked renewed interest in the assassination as well as the prosecution itself of Clay Shaw. The film was purportedly based on Garrison’s book, On the Trail of Assassins, and sympathetically portrayed Garrison.
    The GQ article published by Lemann took a different slant, expressing his view that Shaw’s prosecution was built on flimsy evidence and was a tremendous embarrassment to the city.2 The thrust of Lemann’s article was his opinion countering that expressed by Stone in his film release JFK, to wit:
    (See Letters to GQ, http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Stone%20Oliver%20JFK%20Movie/Gentleman's%20Quarterly/Item%2002.pdf
    An excerpt from the introduction to Lemann’s lengthy response.:
    …Printing both sides of the story has never been a fundamental rule of magazine journalism.
    Magazines are supposed to be feisty and opin-ionated. So it’s with a sense of futility that I
    rebut Sklar’s points….
    Jim, as I said, it is as if you and I are not even speaking the same language. Readers will have to decide the significance of the non-disclosure
    of Nicholas B Lemann, Jim Garrison, Clay Shaw, and possibly Sklar and Stone, of what is described above.

    ...and the sincerity of these sentiments, attributed to Garrison's wife's first cousin and brother of CIA's David Baldwin.:

    From my unpublished, Jan. 29, 2016 article:

    Baldwin’s brother, attorney Edward M. Baldwin, and Stephen B. Lemann were representing Townley and Sheridan, and Baldwin was also representing William Gurvich. Edward M. Baldwin’s former law partner, Judge Malcolm V. O’Hara testified to Orlean’s Parish grand jury,

    …He (Edward M. Baldwin) enumerated or spelled out his personal dislike for Jim Garrison, that he personally thought he should be destroyed, that Sheridan’s so-calledmission in the City of New Orleans with this so-called documentary was to end the problem, destroy Garrison or to get him to resign....
    Readers will also have to decide if there is any debate as to whether Garrsion was pursuing "the right suspects." The background and the results
    raise the suspicion that Garrison was not actually pursuing anybody. His silence in response to all that I've presented above, and Shaw's as well,
    should be deeply disturbing to everyone, including the man behind the $41 million production, "JFK, the movie," as well as supporters of Columbia Graduate School of Journalism's Dean Emeritus, Nicholas B Lemann.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.

  4. Default

    Hey, Jim:

    Since you speak with Mr. Stone on occasion, why not ask him what his assessment of Mr. Scully's findings represent?

  5. Default

    Tom:

    The idea that Butler was somehow connected with Core and Baldwin, is maybe one tenth of the story.

    Maybe less.

    On one of my trips to New Orleans, I interviewed New Orleans scholar and author and archivist Art Carpenter. Very few people know more about the local scene at that time than he did. And Art did not have an agenda. In addition to doing a two hour interview with him, I also secured one of his very valuable essays on the subject,a nd later his Ph. D. dissertation on the growth of the national security state in New Orleans.

    Butler was tied into Charles Cabell through International House, and also Ed Lansdale. Lansdale helped him procure witnesses for his INCA launched Truth Tapes. Which were then circulated through Latin America by Ted Shackley and Howard Hunt. Is any of that in Carpeneter's book?

    Later on, in the eighties, when the CIA was launching its war against Nicaragua, Butler and Layton Martens started a right wing talk radio show in New Orleans. Ed Haslam discovered that Butler had some of Guy Banister's files housed in the office of that radio station. Is that in Carpenter's book? These things seem much more important than who was a second cousin to Garrison's wife. I mean I don't even know who most of my second cousins are.

    But I do know who Cabell and Lansdale are.

    As I said, Carpeneter had an agenda. Just like Phelan, Kirkwood, and Aynesworth before him. The elements involved change. But the aims are always the same.

    As I said, I understand the importance of the Lemman connection with nephew Nicolas. I don't buy the second cousin stuff to Garrison's wife at all.

  6. #56

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    (I originally posted nearly everything that follows on February 10, 2016:
    https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums...118#post107118 I am revisiting this in reaction to Jim's very recent reaction to a claim by the biggest troll I have ever confronted. I hope Jim begins to admit there are facts that do not fit the Oliver Stone influenced consensus.... )

    More fact checking needs to be done. Nothing should be taken at face value. When I read a book, I want to be left with an impression of what was actually going on. The elephants in the room.:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Scully View Post
    Jim,
    .......
    Back to the thread topic, Clay Shaw....

    Donald H Carpenter supported all of this in his book, without comment, but I came by it the hard way, independently and starting from scratch.
    I think it changes things.....

    The back story in its simplest form is that David Baldwin’s wife, Mildred Lyons emerges as the stepdaughter of Monte Lemann, the stepsister of Stephen B. Lemann and his brother Thomas, (who is the father of Nicholas B. Lemann), the sister-in-law of Edward M. Baldwin, and the daughter-in-law of Adele Ziegler Baldwin Raworth, who was the sister of Harold J. Ziegler, father-in-law of Jim Garrison. David Gilmore Baldwin, III and his brother, attorney Edward M. Baldwin, were first cousins of Jim Garrison’s wife, Leah Elizabeth Ziegler Garrison.
    ......….


    (Oliver Stone spent $41 million, I spent two weeks.....)

    Garrison investigation witness Perry Russo filed a lawsuit claiming defamation, against Conde Nast – GQ. Nicholas B. Lemann, attributed in the court record,
    UNDISPUTED FACTUAL BACKGROUND: …The GQ article was a personal memoir[1] of Lemann’s recollections of growing up in New Orleans during District Attorney Jim Garrison’s prosecution of Clay Shaw for allegedly conspiring to assassinate JFK. The 1991 movie release, JFK sparked renewed interest in the assassination as well as the prosecution itself of Clay Shaw. The film was purportedly based on Garrison’s book, On the Trail of Assassins, and sympathetically portrayed Garrison.

    The GQ article published by Lemann took a different slant, expressing his view that Shaw’s prosecution was built on flimsy evidence and was a tremendous embarrassment to the city.[2] ….
    From Donald H Carpenter's 2013 book, March 2, 1967 letter, David Baldwin to Clay Shaw.:
    Garrison happens to be married to my godchild and first cousin....
    (Link to supporting footnote)
    ….Garrison included in his six page complaint letter to the FCC chairman, published in
    the June 18 Times-Picayune;
    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...d=176&tab=page
    2of2 Garrison 06/67 letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde
    (Top of right side column)
    …It should be added that the last described endeavor has been accomplished not by members of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency….

    1. FBI 62-109060 JFK HQ File, Section 140, pg 9
    Found in: FBI JFK Assassination File (62-109060)
    be will not fight extradition. Sheridan's attorney in New Orleans, Steven Lemann, who is also attorney for WDSU, the NBC affiliate here, was present in the


    5. ADMIN FOLDER-O9: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, LHO INCOMING COMMUNICATIONS VOLUME VI, pg 75
    Found in: FBI - HSCA Administrative Folders
    WITNESSES STATUTE. WARRANT WAS ISSUED FOR TOWNLEY AND HIS ATTORNEY STEPHEN LEMANN, SAID HE AND TOWNLEY WOULD APPEAR TO POST SEVEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS

    Edward M. Baldwin’s former law partner, Judge Malcolm V. O’Hara testified to Orlean’s Parish grand jury,
    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...98&relPageId=7

    …He (Edward M. Baldwin) enumerated or spelled out his personal dislike for Jim Garrison, that he personally thought he should be destroyed, that Sheridan’s so-called
    mission in the City of New Orleans with this so-called documentary was to end the problem, destroy Garrison or to get him to resign….

    https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Un...ranscript.html
    Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen

    Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK's Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006.
    .......
    Rex: Joan..... One, there's a story in the Grand Jury testimony told by three different parties involving Sheridan when he came out to do his NBC White Paper, having a meeting set up with an organized crime figure named Zachary Strate that was apparently set up by either Malcolm O'Hara, a judge who was a political enemy of Garrison's, and a lawyer named Edward Baldwin. I wonder if you might tell that story about what that meeting was all about?...

    ......

    JOAN: - when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people. Malcolm O'Hara is sitting there - he doesn't know what hit him - and eventually Strate did not cooperate, and he went up there, and he attacked Sheridan - of course, Sheridan had immunity - nothing anyone could say about Sheridan whether in court, affidavits signed against Sheridan, Sheridan had immunity as a National Security Agency asset, cleared for FBI work, cleared for CIA work, working for the Department of Justice -......

    The troll opined....:



    Jim replied:


    Stephen Roy says:February 12, 2016 at 9:42 pm
    I hadn’t yet responded to your post asking if I had read Carpenter. What difference does it make? Unless I’m misreading you, you feel that the interrelationships of several of the persons from the Garrison-Shaw probe should have been disclosed, and that the lack of disclosure suggests that the whole thing was a contrivance. All I am saying is that I disagree with this analysis.
    Tom S. says:
    February 13, 2016 at 12:26 am
    Stephen, these are your comments:
    1.) I can’t really follow your reasoning on this. It strikes me as a very unlikely scenario.
    2.) Tom, are you suggesting that since some of the players in the Garrison/Shaw saga traveled in the same social or family circles, that the whole investigation was a phony? Are you serious??
    3.) I’m not choosing anything; I’m merely opining that, by any objective measure, the facts you cite do not inexorably lead to the analysis you postulated. I’ve been immersed in the New Orleans case for a long time and I’m qualified to have an an opinion on this.
    That having been said, discussion and debate are good things.
    Come to find out, you wrote a review of Donald H. Carpenter’s book. It appeared and still is on Max Holland’s website. You say, “I am qualified to have an opinion
    on this.”
    You stated this in your book review.: http://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2015/03/shaw.html
    …It is not just another derivative book on the market, cobbled together from other works that were not fact-checked. Rather, it is a rare example of original research from primary sources, making it invaluable for anyone interested in the Garrison debacle….
    But in your review, you neglected to mention perhaps the two most important pieces of, unique, new information in the entire book.:


    It follows that your assertion that you are qualified to have an opinion, must be weighed alongside your glaring omissions, and speaking for myself, I cannot discern
    if you’ve come here to attempt damage control related to your own reputation, or if you are one of the people primarily interested in determining what the hell actually happened in the Garrison investigation and the arrest and prosecution of Clay Shaw.


    Stephen Roy says:
    February 13, 2016 at 12:44 pm
    There were many irrelevant things I saw no need to include in my brief edited review of a 700 page book. Stop suggesting that I have an agenda.....



    Attached Images Attached Images
    Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.

  7. #57

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    http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Core%20Jesse/Item%2012.pdf
    Harold Weisberg befriends Jesse Core. I find no mention of David Baldwin in the Weisberg archives.


    https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Un...ranscript.html
    Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen

    Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK's Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006.
    .......
    Rex: Joan..... One, there's a story in the Grand Jury testimony told by three different parties involving Sheridan when he came out to do his NBC White Paper, having a meeting set up with an organized crime figure named Zachary Strate that was apparently set up by either Malcolm O'Hara, a judge who was a political enemy of Garrison's, and a lawyer named Edward Baldwin. I wonder if you might tell that story about what that meeting was all about?...

    ......

    JOAN: - when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people.
    The troll opined....:



    Jim replied:


    ……
    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=54933&relPageId=2&search=calcut ta



    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=30248&relPageId=2&search=mrs._a nd%20jesse
    …..
    There is insufficient information regarding Jesse Core, Clay Shaw’s associate. to positively identify him as Baldwin’s friend, Jesse R. Core. But it seems quite probable that they are the same. Baldwin is from New Orleans and it would appear that his friend Core is also. In as much as he seems in all probability to be the husband of a Mrs. Jesse Cole nee Lucy Ruggles (Tom S.: actually Marilou), who as of 1956 was said to be married to a man in the State Department and to be somewhere overseas. and as of 1957 was said to reside in New Orleans, Louisiana…
    ….Garrison included in his six page complaint letter to the FCC chairman, published in
    the June 18 Times-Picayune;

    http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?...d=176&tab=page
    2of2 Garrison 06/67 letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde
    (Top of right side column)
    …It should be added that the last described endeavor has been accomplished not by members of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency….
    In his letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde, Garrison was describing Stephen B. Lemann without naming him. Lemann was the
    uncle of Nicholas B Lemann. Stephen's step-mother who was also Nicholas's step-grandmother was the mother of David Baldwin's wife.





    The back story in its simplest form is that David Baldwin’s wife, Mildred Lyons emerges as the stepdaughter of Monte Lemann, the stepsister of Stephen B. Lemann and his brother Thomas, (who is the father of Nicholas B. Lemann), the sister-in-law of Edward M. Baldwin, and the daughter-in-law of Adele Ziegler Baldwin Raworth, who was the sister of Harold J. Ziegler, father-in-law of Jim Garrison. David Gilmore Baldwin, III and his brother, attorney Edward M. Baldwin, were first cousins of Jim Garrison’s wife, Leah Elizabeth Ziegler Garrison.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Tom Scully; 12-10-2016 at 02:03 PM.
    Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.

  8. Default

    That is not what I replied about Paul Trejo. This is what I replied:

    Glenn:


    He is full of it anyway. The cover story about Shaw was first, he never worked for the CIA. This is the BS he spewed to willing harlots in the media like James Phelan and they printed it.


    The second stage of the cover up was the "oh well, he was simply a business class informant". And that was what other CIA flunkies like Blakey used for the HSCA.


    Well, due the declassification process, two documents came out which smashed the cover up. First, it was revealed that Shaw was issued a covert security clearance. Second, through the CIA historical review program, the Agency let slip many years later that Shaw was a highly paid, valuable contract agent for them for a number of years.


    Now, after the CIA let that slip, the Agency then shut down that program! That is how touchy they are about the subject of their cover up of who Clay Shaw really was.


    And BTW, I have it from a source who was close to Dulles, that the CIA started this cover up about Clay Shaw very early after the JFK assassination. It was done through a guy named Howard Osborne.


    But people like Trejo are willing dupes for this disinformation, and they never get upset at being lied to.

  9. #59

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    https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-k...sident-kennedy
    Friday, 04 March 2016 15:00 Jeffrey H. Caufield, M. D., General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy

    Written by James DiEugenio

    ......I could go on and on, but let us just mention a May 24, 1967, Garrison memo that focuses on the connections of the CIA station in New Orleans to the local law firm of Monroe and Lemann. The DA discovered that Monte Lemann, a former partner in the firm, was a CIA counsel who exercised control over who the local station chief would be. Steve Lemann, another partner, handled certain clandestine payments by the CIA locally. This included funds to certain defendants and witnesses in the Clay Shaw case. Which—to anyone but Caufield—would be a CIA connection to the case. But that is not the capper. In the memo, it is stated that Monte Lemann had approval over the appointment of the former chief of the New Orleans station, one William Burke. With an arrow pointing to Burke’s name, Garrison scrawled across the margin of the memo the following: “Had lunch reportedly with Andy Anderson recently.” This is startling. Why? Because if it’s the same Andy Anderson, he was the CIA officer who, according to John Newman, first debriefed Oswald upon his return from Russia. But that was not revealed until Newman found the memo in 1993 for the PBS documentary Who was Lee Harvey Oswald? How on earth did Garrison know about Anderson 27 years earlier?To me, there is more solid evidence concerning a conspiracy in just the few areas I have mentioned above than there is in all 790 pages of Caufield’s text, with its recurrent “Chaplin’s cannon” syndrome. But again, if you don’t tell the reader about it, then you can claim there is nothing there.IX

    ......


    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Scully View Post
    ......
    .....
    Jules Raburn Monroe was the son of Monte Lemann's law partner, Jules Blanc Monroe. Monte Lemann died in Sept., 1959, and when Jules Raburn Monroe died in April, 1961, he is described as senior partner at Monroe Lemann.
    Jules Raburn was Princeton '29, and so was Edwin "Squirrel" Maurice Ashcraft III, chief of domestic contacts from the inception of CIA until 1966.....
    1. Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XXIII, pg 105
    Found in: Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibits
    r0."m pa.. woe H. H. (ANDY) ANDERSON, Manager, Adolphus Hotel, Dallas, Texas, advised he had Carousel Club pass no. 136. He stated he obtained this card
    party several months ago when all club owners were in attendance. As Mr. ANDERSON books all entertainment for the Century Room at the Adolphus, he watt invited
    card. Mr. ANDERSON advised he knew RUBY on sight but had never been frien.ly with him and had never associated with his to any extent. ANDERSON advised he...




    Continued...




    http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb.../Item%2007.pdf

    Wood/2

    Wood/4

    Wood/5
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Tom Scully; 01-31-2017 at 07:55 AM.
    Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.

  10. #60

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    Hugh H "Andy" Anderson Testimony Orleans Parish Grand Jury August 31, 1967

    https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc....eId=4&tab=page



    From the 1930s through the 1960s, Raymond Frederick Salmen and W.P. Burke, Jr., longtime southeast region CIA domestic contacts chief were N.O.C.C. amateur golf standouts.

    Ernest Gossum was manager of N.O.C.C. from 1925 and a director of the club in the 50s and 60s. Willard Robertson married Gossum's daughter in late 1953. Gossum became a V.P.

    in Robertson's southeast region Volkswagen exclusive importer corp. by 1960.





    On the page linked below later in Anderson's grand jury testimony, Garrison questions Anderson and draws out details of the very close and long relationship of Anderson and Raymond Salmen....

    https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc....Id=13&tab=page

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Tom Scully; 02-01-2017 at 08:34 AM.
    Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.

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