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Thread: Detailed discussion and analysis of the H&L evidence

  1. Default Detailed discussion and analysis of the H&L evidence

    I will spend some time gathering my threads and posts as I can....

    I would welcome the opportunity to do a series (AT CTKA) based on the spreadsheet I compiled detailing the H&L evidence chronologically and side-by-side.

    I did not include all the linked sources or references but I would be glad to expand upon this work....

    My current goal therefore would be to transfer this info into a Powerpoint-like presentation so I can add the photos/photo work I've done to support the data.

    I will also find a way to make the spreadsheet available to the members for easy download... any suggestions about a preferred storage/sharing website would be appreciated...

    Lee-to-Harvey---right-eye-anchor.gif


    2oswalds-whichisLee.jpg
    Last edited by Lauren Johnson; 03-03-2014 at 12:42 AM.
    Sometimes you get shown the light
    in the strangest of places
    if you look at it right.....
    R. Hunter

  2. #2

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    John Armstrong's analysis of the CIA's "Oswald Project," including sworn testimony by a CIA accountant that Oswald was paid by the CIA, is available online here:

    http://harveyandlee.net

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    David: I love the work you have done on Harvey and Lee. Making this important work more accessible to people is a huge undertaking. One I so valued when you sent me the spread sheet yesterday.
    Understanding that there were two distinct LHOs in this case is, to me, as important as the understanding of just why JFK was assassinated and how it connects to the fascism of today.

    Dawm

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    OK, Dawn, this caught my eye:

    Understanding that there were two distinct LHOs in this case is, to me, as important as the understanding of just why JFK was assassinated and how it connects to the fascism of today.
    Not arguing. My thinking is that most current JFK research doesn't change anything -- not really. How do you see the H&L theory as a game changer?
    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Johnson View Post
    OK, Dawn, this caught my eye:

    Understanding that there were two distinct LHOs in this case is, to me, as important as the understanding of just why JFK was assassinated and how it connects to the fascism of today.
    Not arguing. My thinking is that most current JFK research doesn't change anything -- not really. How do you see the H&L theory as a game changer?
    Hi Lauren... hopefully Dawn will not mind my stepping in here.


    "most current JFK research doesn't change anything" - related to H&L or all of it in general Lauren?

    The understanding and finally our community's acceptance of the H&L "play" first not having a thing to do with the assassination, of course, and then the switch or realization at some point to including Oswald, like Webster, Vallee and whoever the Tampa patsy in an assassination set-up, would have been is imo key to understanding the timeline and facilitating players...

    From my thinking it makes little sense to "show one's hand" ala Tampa and Chicago unless the fix was in very, very early... an innocent SS, given what happened in Chicago, would have NEVER behaved as they did in Dallas

    None of the warning bells for Dallas went off... The PRS did not even mention Chicago threats who might hop a train and be in Dallas... it was completely ignored while Abe Bolden is viscously attacked for opening his mouth.
    Yet the FBI reports in the WCDs from Chicago stumble over themselves to distance Oswald from Vallee and Valle from the actuall shooting team.

    Add now the Hoover must have been aware given his initial CYA reactions... it is said that Hoover and Angleton often shared info and resources.... while it is also said that Angleton had the infamous Mafia blackmail photos of Hoover and Tolson.... If Angleton was running Oswald, which Simpich makes a very good case for, it would be in Hoover's best interest to go along with the cover-up....

    So the question becomes - WHEN does HARVEY go from an Angleton/CIA/CI long range plan to THE patsy in Dallas... and do we honestly believe that it was Angleton who would expose himself in this way - or was it ONI/INS/DIA and the higher level facilitators insuring even greater insulation by using this person and his importance, as well as liability to Angleton...?

    One of the greatest disconnects related to H&L is the assumption that this was the plan all along... it was not of course...
    which brings us once again around to - so WHEN does he become the operational patsy?

    If he was a true liability - do we honestly believe he would not have been taken care of - given the circles he was involved? or do we see that his infultrations and work with Bannister and Shaw was serving dual purpose...
    Informational as well as his oversight... "They" were watching HARVEY all the time and most definitely was receiving some level of intel from him for his $200/month. He was "their" asset... and would be used as needed.
    Just ask Harry Dean or Nagell.

    ==========

    So how is H&L a game changer?

    In the biggest sense of the word, I will agree with you Lauren.. yet isn't that question the same as, "What would global acknowledgement of the Bethesda alterations do to the 'game' "? Or the viewing of the OTHER Zfilm along with the NPIC revelations from that weekend...


    Doesn't change the Sponsors or even the Facilitators we've come to know, I agree there too.... yet as H&L is understood and accepted - we have to acknowledge that HARVEY OSWALD was, in 1952, a planted communist, grown in the USA and working ultimately as a low level FBI informant for ??? KGB? CIA? ONI? both? All? and how that dovetails into Marina's (false) history covering a KGB operation to place "friendlies" in the US under deep cover.

    Interest in the HARVEY story - Women leaving USSR with husband.jpg




    One can look at the USSR episode as an arranged trip to get Marina into the USA, given who she meets (Both American Defectors), how fast they are married, and how, after telling Robert in an early letter that he would NEVER come back to the US... Nov 26, 1959 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jf...ol16_0420a.htm and is the LAST LETTER FROM OSWALD until Jan 30, 1961


    There is SOMETHING in there Lauren... something big enough that Hoover appears very determined to have it stay hidden via the wholesale alteration and destruction of records... and remains hidden and unacknowledged to this day...

    Why?
    Sometimes you get shown the light
    in the strangest of places
    if you look at it right.....
    R. Hunter

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    "most current JFK research doesn't change anything" - related to H&L or all of it in general Lauren?
    All of it. If Douglass is largely correct about the Why He Died?, that leaves his next question, And Why It Matters? To my mind, any JFK research needs to speak to these two questions, or they become about curiosities -- dotting i's and crossing t's.

    The Sean Murphy thread at EF was remarkable in both its tone and respect for opinions. But to say LHO really was on the front steps -- hardly moving -- still to my mind does not address the two questions above.

    I'll read the rest of this post a little later. I am just responding to this sentence.
    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

  7. Default I hate to do it here - but here goes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Johnson View Post
    "most current JFK research doesn't change anything" - related to H&L or all of it in general Lauren?
    All of it. If Douglass is largely correct about the Why He Died?, that leaves his next question, And Why It Matters? To my mind, any JFK research needs to speak to these two questions, or they become about curiosities -- dotting i's and crossing t's.

    The Sean Murphy thread at EF was remarkable in both its tone and respect for opinions. But to say LHO really was on the front steps -- hardly moving -- still to my mind does not address the two questions above.

    I'll read the rest of this post a little later. I am just responding to this sentence.
    Understood...


    and I will have to respectfully disagree about the dotting i's....

    I apologize ahead of time if this sounds like a soap-box rant... yet there are '31 flavors' cause not everyone likes Vanilla. Resolution and knowledge in a variety of areas - JFK being only one of many - seems to lead to bigger and better understandings of our world history. As I write below, understanding H&L will not solve the case or even get us closer to the Sponsors... but it will help fill in blanks where H&L was never considered and possibly create clarity for others who may indeed take it steps further.

    If we want to find the SPONSORS in this world, I personally believe the following is a good place to start... SPONSORS have obviously been around much longer than the JFK situation...

    So Lauren, I wonder how to proceed?
    Nothing will actually SOLVE anything here in intellectual-land... Nothing will change...EVER in the way humanity treats itself... or what it will try to get away with... (laws agains slavery does not rid the SPONSOR from still trying to get away with it)

    So we should stop trying to understand? I have to think that remains a personal decision.

    The abyss one finds oneself in when seeing and realizing this causes some to go crazy, some to fight and be killed, and many to find areas of the world and of the JFK case they CAN understand and maybe make a contribution to...
    I am not posting this in a vacuum. If you think our time is better spent chasing the Sponsors, I offer the following...

    The evidence and signposts are all there throughout most of recorded history... and requires us a individuals to seek understanding of much broader and "deep" concepts such as:

    1. What is accepted History?
    2. What constitues truth and knowledge on a global scale?
    3. What does a Perpetual Peace entail and is it even a human possibility?
    4. Would a ONE WORLD ORDER releive us of WAR at the cost of ???

    =====
    In 1795, Immanuel Kant wrote Perpetual Peace: A Phiosophical Sketch... As the New USA fought off a Centralized Banking system... it was as obvious then as it it now.

    "National debts shall not be contracted with a view to the external friction of states"

    Commentary and translation by Jonathon Bennet 2010
    ‘National debts are not to beincurred as an aid to the conduct of foreign policy.’


    There’s nothing wrong with this way of seeking aid, within the
    state or from outside it, in support of the domestic economy—
    the improvement of roads, new settlements, creating reserve
    stores of commodities as insurance against unfruitful years,
    etc. But as a tool for use in the struggle of ·national·
    powers against each other, this credit system—the ingenious
    invention of a commercial people in the present century—is
    a dangerous kind of money-power. The debt it involves keeps
    growing, unnoticed, and the debtor state isn’t pulled up
    short by demands for repayment, because the creditors don’t
    all require payment at one time. ·And in time it grows to
    be· a war-chest bigger than those of all the other states
    combined. The only way it can get used up is through a loss
    of tax income [to pay the interest?]; that certainly will eventually
    happen, but it can be kept at bay for a long time because
    of the stimulus the credit system gives to industry and
    commerce ·and thus to tax revenues·. This ease in making
    war, together with rulers’ lust for power—something that
    seems inborn in human nature—is thus a great hindrance
    to perpetual peace. All the more reason why there should
    be a preliminary article of perpetual peace forbidding this
    credit system; and states that don’t use it are justified in
    combining against any state that does, because they will
    be harmed by their entanglement in that state’s inevitable
    bankruptcy

    ========


    The posts I've made regarding Textron, Bell, Sun Life, Bank of Boston, Morgan/Rothschild and Cravath, Swaine and Moore goes directly to the heart of the Sponsors.
    Lawyers and Bankers remain the heart and life blood of the Sponsor's power.

    Who was #2 at Dept of Defense? How important was McCloy? Who is the NSA and CFR? How did the Fed grab control of this country in exactly the same way precursers to the FED run most nations of the world?
    Who do you believe runs the World Bank and IMF and why? Who was in charge of rebuilding Europe after the war?

    http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/publi...a_study_in.pdf
    Robert Strange McNamara became
    Secretary of Defense while Cravath Swain and Moore
    partner, Roswell Gilpatrick became the number two
    man in Defense. This opened a whole new phase in
    Textron development.

    the one responsible for the
    postwar degradation was John J.McCloy. a partner atCravath Swain and Moore.Miller's law firm. McCloy
    brought to West Germany a dozen Cravath Swain and
    Moore lawyers to run the Occupation
    From March 1947 to June 1949, McCloy was president of the World Bank..

    The high-technology branch of Textron operations
    began quietly in Massachusetts in 1946 as the American
    Research and Development Corporation, a three million
    dollar venture-capital firm. It was founded by the Sun
    Life Assurance of London through its Boston operative.
    Paul F. Clark. president of the John Hancock Life Insurance
    Company and director of First National of
    Boston, the bank whose extraordinary largess built
    Textron. Also founding ARD was Oscar W. Haussmann.
    a top corporate lawyer and chairman of the New
    England Industrial Research Foundation and the Boston
    Municipal Research Bureau. and Lessing J. Rosenwalt
    of Sears Roebuck and Kuhn Loeb.

    Control is exercised by Sun Life of Canada through its
    chairman. Alistair M. Campbell who sits on the ARD
    board and sat on Textron's before their formal merger
    in 1972.


    not to be too flippant, but he didn't just die, he was brutally murdered and his body why mutilated afterward to hide the evidence.

    Why did "they" do that to him?
    He was embarking upon and gaining ground to end the Cold War.

    To remove an unreplaceable - at the time - enemy, which, if not removed, granted more and more power to the Sponsors and their economic and political models.

    Why does it Matter?
    IMO Lauren, to send amessage to anyone who would even think to step out of line.... there was no safe place for anyone at any level of power who tries to stop it...
    and there never has.


    If this forum's name is indicative of its desire to uncover the deeper politics of not only the assassination of JFK but of the removal of the Sponsor's road blocks for the last 200+ years... H&L is indeed a waste of time...
    It will not lead to the Sponsors... by design.

    When instead we could be looking to connect dots which do not even appear to us as in the same universe... Fletcher Prouty gives the lead-up to this transaction a few paragraphs in his JFK, Vietnam and the CIA book... I suggest if you have it you read those sections as they relate to a CIA General Cabell and a request by the Bank of Boston's VP to learn if TEXTRON's buying Bell would be a good investment....

    A bit too close enough for ya?

    In fact the company was heading for bankruptcy. Yet
    somehow, the Prudential Life Insurance Company of
    Newark, a Morgan influenced firm, provided a $25
    million unsecured note to Textron, with a six-year grace
    period on repayments. A most un-insurance company like
    type of loan.

    With the loan, Textron bought Bell and remarkably,helicopter orders zoomed up 50 percent between 1961 and
    1962. Bell's UH-IB and UH-IB Iroquois were heavily
    ordered for JFK's (sic) Vietnam War. With this kick, Textron
    began another round of acquisitions, now heavily defense
    or machine-tool oriented. The pace was dizzying. For
    example in 1965 (January), Textron bought Le Progres
    Industrial, a Belgian machine tool manufacturer; in
    February, it bought Old King Cole to supplement the
    plastics line of Fanner Industries division; in July, it
    acquired the South Coast Marine Co.; in September, it
    obtained substantial interest in the American Screw
    Company of Chile (nationalized by Chilean Govt. in
    1972) ; in October, it acquired the Patterson-Sargent
    paint business. In 1966 Textron was even more active,
    buying, selling or rearranging ten companies
    Sometimes you get shown the light
    in the strangest of places
    if you look at it right.....
    R. Hunter

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    DJ. Sorry didn't mean to offend. Just expressing my personal opinion that I have not found a lot of recent JFK research to be personally helpful. That's all.

    Frankly, I was asking for Dawn's opinion why she thinks the H&L body of work to be ground breaking.
    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Johnson View Post
    DJ. Sorry didn't mean to offend. Just expressing my personal opinion that I have not found a lot of recent JFK research to be personally helpful. That's all.

    Frankly, I was asking for Dawn's opinion why she thinks the H&L body of work to be ground breaking.
    None and never any offense taken Lauren... I apologize if it came off that way.... and I guess my bad for stepping in on a question to Dawn...

    when you wrote: "most current JFK research doesn't change anything" - I asked: related to H&L or all of it in general Lauren?

    you replied: All of it. If Douglass is largely correct about the Why He Died?, that leaves his next question,
    and yet you then say you are only talking about H&L and how it's ground-breaking... you can see my confusion?

    I see the division between 1) the discussion of minutia and 2) the discussion of the deficiencies of humanity as being mutually exclusive.
    So yes, I see H&L as more minutia... amazing, intersting, revealing and worthy of study minutia... but minutia none the less.

    Agree or disagree with these statements...

    1) being shown the detailed plans to assassinate JFK and get away with it (all the names, dates connections etc...)...
    would NOT shed any light on the Sponsors or change the course of humanity's future as dictated by that level of power and control

    2) The Sponsors of the world also lose with global thermonuclear war - and that only the LeMay's of the world think THAT war is winable and survivable.



    If we accept the model onwhich much of our discussion is based...

    SPONSORS -- Those with the authority and motive to sanction the assassination and the connections to engage facilitating agents and systems.
    FACILITATORS -- From the"princes" who directly and/or through buffers routinely interacted with and carried out the agendas of the SPONSORS and who created the plot in all its complexities, through high-level members of facilitating organizations,to mid- to low-level functionaries who performed the heavy lifting
    MECHANICS -- The gunmen and support personnel on-site who carried out the attack

    we are selling ourselves short since they are by definition intertwined with the killing...

    Do we honestly believe that JFK would do away with the SPONSORS of the world? or that the Sponsors would inevitably find a way to exploit and control whatever direction the world traveled.
    His death definitely made it easier... yet it also put them at risk of total annihilation, nothing left to control or expolit... no riches to be had, no "life" as we know it.

    Do we believe that the SPONSORS would have let Nixon, if president, invade Cuba and take the Russians head on - Damn the torpedos and all?

    I firmly believe it is time to update and rethink the SPONSOR-FACILITATOR-MECHANIC model.... or at least how we understand the Sponsor on a scale which makes JFK their hero for averting all out war...
    Yet was killed none the less...


    Whether "Iron Mountain" is a hoax or not... it's words still ring with truth and the Unspeakable... So, as I posted, we discuss the minutia because it is quantifiable and understandable...
    We fear the Sponsor, for, like the devil, once we understand it must exist in this dichotomous world of ours, we have lost our audience as there does not appear to be a G~d to counter the sponsor's evil.
    In a real sense, the Truth does NOT set you free but actually double locks the cell door of human existence.

    Good things will continue to happen within the herd of humanity to be sure... but when as a species we have little to no understanding of how to live globally in harmony and peace... even Douglass admits we are doomed.

    Although we do not imply that a substitute for war in the economy cannot be devised, no combinationof techniques for controlling employment, production, and consumption has yetbeen tested that can remotely compare to it in effectiveness.

    War is, and has been, theessential economic stabilizer of modern societies.

    War, then, as we have definedit to include all national activities that recognize the possibility of armedconflict, is itself the defining element of any nation's existence vis-à-vis anyother nation.
    Sometimes you get shown the light
    in the strangest of places
    if you look at it right.....
    R. Hunter

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    and yet you then say you are only talking about H&L and how it's ground-breaking... you can see my confusion?
    I am responding to this statement without having read another word of your post WHICH I will read.

    Dawn said it was groundbreaking. I wanted to know why Dawn thought it was groundbreaking.

    Now, time to continue with the rest of your post. I am intrigued by H&L At this point have no opinion.

    SHEESH!

    Now, I will continue on to read the rest of your post.

    All the best!!
    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

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