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Thread: John Judge on Donald Norton

  1. #1

    Default John Judge on Donald Norton

    Posted from Bill Kelly's JFK Countercoup Blog:

    FRIDAY, APRIL 25, 2014

    John Judge, Mae Brussell and Don Norton

    Posted by John Judge on the Education Forum - JFK Assassination Debate - July 31 2000


    Bill Kelly requested that I relate the meeting I had with a man using the name Don Norton at theUniversity of Dayton in Ohio in the 1970’s.


    I had helped to make arrangements for researcher Mae Brussell to speak on campus. Kelly was also going to school there at the time, and attended her talk. After the crowd broke, I headed home with Mae and two roommates at our off campus house. Coming out of the Student Union, I noticed a man handing back, but following us down the hallway, and into the elevator. Mae was surrounded by a small group, including Bill Kelly, who were asking her questions. The man held back while she stopped outside in the dark to finish talking to them. Then Mae, myself and my roommates began to head toward home and stepped into the light of street lamps at the edge of campus.


    At this point, the man came out of the shadows from behind us and came up to Mae, saying, “Mae, don’t you know who I am?” Mae turned, looked at him for a moment and said, “You look like Lee Harvey Oswald.”


    And to my amazement, he did. Add ten years to his life, some receding hairline, but the resemblance was clearly there. He looked at his feet and said, “A lot of people tell me that. I’m Don Norton.”


    At this Mae became effusive. “Oh Don, I’m so glad you come. John, this is Don Norton. He wrote to me to say he was going to drive down from Columbus to hear the talk. He’s the only researcher in the country who sends me money to do my work.” Again, the man looked at his feet and said, “It’s my conscience money.” I was still flabbergasted at his resemblance to Oswald and intrigued about who he was, so I invited him to come down to the house and visit with Mae and have a cup of coffee. He followed us there.


    Inside, the resemblance was even clearer to me. He looked like the round, cherubic faced Oswald who was in the Soviet Union photos and on the passport photo, but not like the Oswald killed in Dallas. I expected him to ask questions of Mae, but instead he began a long recitation about Marxism and communist ideology. Finally, Mae got up from knitting and said, “I’m going to bed.” I offered to send my research writings to the man, and he told me to write to him at “General Delivery, Columbus,Ohio.” He bid goodnight to my two roommakes and myself and left.


    The next day, on the way to visit a correspondent in a state prison in Ohio, Mae turned to me in the car and said, “Don’t you think that was Oswald who visited us last night?” And I said, “Well, it sure looked like Oswald,” Mae, but Oswald is dead.”


    “Not according to his mother,” Mae responded, “she told me that the man shot in the basement of theDallas jail was not her son.” I was astounded. “Didn’t you notice what he was doing last night?”

    I said, “Well, I thought it strange that he didn’t ask any questions or really talk to us.”


    “He was reciting verbatim the speech Oswald gave on the radio in New Orleans about communism and Marxism,” she explained. I had never heard the text of the speech, so it had not run a bell for me.


    “I’m going to go home and check his signature on his letters to me. I have a whole collection of Oswald signatures, and they re not all the same person.” Mae said. She was clearly excited that she had met a living Oswald.


    Resemblance.

    I have now repeated this story to many researchers. Jack White and others took a special interest in it and followed down leads on a Don Norton in Columbus, but the early photo they showed me of that man did not resemble the person I saw. Later, I saw a photo of a man that lived in Florida and used the name Don Norton, and it was clearly the same person. I am convinced that the man I met that night was either the Oswald who lived with Marina in the Soviet Union, or a dead ringer for him. I do not know if his real name was Don Norton, of course, that is just the name he gave us. District Attorney Jim Garrison believed that someone using that name was involved in the Kennedy assassination conspiracy.


    I later was a custodian of Mae Brussell’s library and correspondence files for a period. I never found the Norton letters, but they may still exist in her collection. Mae died in 1988. Bill Kelly and my old roommates still recall the incident, but no additional details. Bill didn’t talk to the man calling himself Norton, he had parted from us before the man really talked but, of course, I will never forget the incident.


    Lee Harvey Oswald had been a key in my work to understand who killed Kennedy and who set him up to take the blame. I realized early on that there was more than one Oswald, that a “double” operation was going on prior to the assassination. I believe the man I met was Marguritte’s son, the real Oswald, back from the Soviet Union at some point. But until that night, Oswald had been a ghost to me, a name and a set of facts, not a person. Until the specials released about Oswald in the 1990s, I had never heard Oswald’s voice, save in the few stressed moments he is interviewed in the Dallas jail, his voice is terse and angry. Finally, he is heard in one documentary on tapes preserved by an English speaking teacher in the Soviet Union who befriended Lee, laughing and dramatizing a reading, and his persona comes through in a completely different way. These two voices are not the same in my view.

    I also relayed this story to the Cuban intelligence officers who COPA arranged for researchers to meet in the Bahamas a few years ago, and Felix Rodriguez was intrigued. He told me a story of his own, from the days when he was trained in the 1950s by the KGB in Moscow. He said their officers were behind a clothing store just off Red Square, and that you entered in the back room by way of a concealed elevator, Like Maxwell Smart,” he joked. He said that his key KGB trainer had told him that Lee Harvey Oswald was still living in the Soviet Union, years after the Kennedy assassination had occurred. I wondered if this was the man I me so many years ago.

    Did the “defector” Oswald stay in the Soviet Unionand a double “Return” to the US? Is there still a living Oswald? Could he tell us anything about those who set him up as the patsy? Is Don Norton still alive? Others have done much more research than work on Norton than I have, and it’s worth studying. I live with this small piece of history. Ever since I began my work on the JFK assassination, it has created a web of synchronicity and serendipity for me, chance meetings with key individuals who know a piece of the puzzle.


    For my purposes, the case is solved, but not yet finally proven.


    I point the finger at the Joint Chiefs of Staff and at the Office of Naval Intelligence, who ran the young Marine “defector,” Lee Harvey Oswald, and those were among the last forthcoming agencies approached by the Review Board for the JFK assassination files.


    In the early 1990s, before Oliver Stone’s film, Bill Kelly and I started the Committee for an Open Archives to press for the full release of the government files. We actually had found sponsors to introduce the bills and for a full and immediate release, among them Rep. Henry Gonzales, who had been in the motorcade that day. Stone’s film created the groundswell of public outcry that led to the passage of the JFK Records Act of 1992. And the Committee for an Open Archives was one of the founding groups of the Coalition on Political Assassinations.


    DONALD P. NORTON –


    As summarized from interview notes taken by investigators (Charles Ward/R. Billings) for the New Orleans District Attorney (NODA) and newspaper clips, released by the NARA under the JFK Act.

    Born on January 23, 1932, a native of Columbus,Georgia, Donald P. Norton was raised and educated in Georgia before entering the U.S. Air Force in October, 1949. A musician who played the organ and self-described TV personality, Norton enlisted with the understanding he would play in the Air Force Band, which he did until 1952 when he was discharged over what he described as a "personal involvement" and an "indiscretion" that led to him being sentenced to six months in a federal prison.

    Returning to Georgia he continued his musical education at a conservatory where he earned a bachelor and master degrees and in 1957 a job playing at the officers club at Fort Benning,Columbus, Georgia, where he performed for and met generals and other officers and officials. While there he was approached by a man who claimed to be representing the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), who told him "we want to know who does what to whom," which the NODA investigator surmised, "the obvious implication being that it would his duty to ferret out homosexuals in high military places."


    The money, Norton said, was good, $500 a month, and Norton continued what he called his "witch hunting" assignment until 1958, when the colonel who employed him was charged with embezzlement.

    Norton then moved to Atlanta where he performed on weekends at the officers club, whose secretary Norton was convinced, was also a government agent, continuing to turn over information about homosexuals, proof "based on experience."

    In early 1958 he received a phone call from his contact who asked him if he would like to take a trip to Cuba. He met "Hugh Pharris" at the Easter Airline ticket counter at the Atlanta Airport. "Pharris" gave him a case of phonograph records, saying "it is in the jackets," samples of which he was to take to Carlo Media, a Cuban television personality, who was also working for the CIA at the time. "Pharris" was described as a man who wore sun glasses and a very sloppy wig, who Norton is convinced was David Ferrie. A young lady was with him, Carlotta Roth, a dancer at the Domino Lounge in Atlanta. After traveling to Cuba, Norton returned to Georgia via Miami and New York and reported to his CIA contact in Atlanta.

    Norton said his next assignment was to infiltrate the Fulton County jail, where he was placed in the same cell with Robert Bolling, accused of dynamiting a synagogue. Other assignments were more his specialty, to determine the existence of homosexuals in government jobs.

    In 1960, while on a pleasure trip to New Orleans, Norton said he went to the My-O-My Club, a homosexual hangout, where he saw "Hugh Pharris" (aka David Ferrie), though he didn't break operational security and talk to him.

    According to the NODA investigation report of the interview with Norton, "…it should be noted that the man's (Norton's) physical appearance and his behavior indicate at a glance his sexual nature. A man of rather delicate features, slightly overweight, he is extremely nervous, a chain smoker, which may well be explained by the fact that he is indeed frightened. On the other hand, he is a fast-talking, well rehearsed witness, although his testimony is often confusing due to his penchant for inconsequential gossip. He has a very inflated ego about his musical talents and his ability to decipher weaknesses of others. He describes himself as a passive homosexual who is really a bisexual, although the latter terminology must be considered doubtful. On observation it must be stated that it seems unlikely that a man of such homosexual tendencies would be employed by the intelligence agency, but, as he described the nature of his work, this was exactly the reason they hired him. He described the reason for going to work for the agency as two-fold. One, 'they had something on me,' he says, and two, 'the money was good.'"

    Norton said he was paid on an assignment-by-assignment basis, received his orders by phone from a man who was only identified as "the Captain," and never heard the term "CIA" by the initials used to describe the agency, and the first reference was the last reference to the company. He was tightly insulated from other CIA operatives and only knows of a few others who have worked for the agency.

    In September, 1962, Norton said he was given the assignment of delivering $50,000 to the Hotel Yamajel, in Monterray, Mexico. Driving in his own 1956 Buick, he registered under his own name.

    According to the NODA investigator's report, "It should be noted here that Norton's knowledge of Cuban policy of this country is extremely vague. He is able to theorize as if it were some revelation that the United States or CIA was behind the overthrow of Batista, but then when Castro threw out the CIA, it in turn, and the U.S. government turned against Castro. He does however say that Carlo Media, theCIA-employed Cuban is now in a Castro prison, so he thinks. He says that after the Castro overthrow his only assignment involving Cuba was this courier trip to Monterray to turn over $50,000 to Harvey Lee…"

    After registering at the Yamajel Hotel, Norton said he was met by "Harvey Lee" before he could even get to his room. They went into the bar and had a few beers. Norton described "Harvey Lee" as "a man of slight build who dressed casually, who appeared identical to Oswald except for the fact that his hair was not as thin as the hair of the man he saw in pictures identified as Lee Harvey Oswald."

    Norton also noted that "Harvey Lee" refused to look him in the eye. When asked where he was from, Norton recalled the answer, he thinks, was New Orleans. In return for the case of money, in return Norton was given a case of documents in manila envelopes, "the nature of which he does not know."

    From Monterray, Norton said he then drove toCalgary, Alberta, Canada, where he became a television personality and played at the bar of the Georgian Terrace restaurant. "There he was met by a man he can only describe as resembling Oral Roberts, the evangelist, and says this man came to him and used the code identification 'the weather is very warm in Tulsa," and Norton turned over the documents to him in the parking lot, where the man was driving a Volkswagon.

    Returning to the United States, Norton was arrested at the behest of Albert Penn of Five Points, Alabama, who Norton knew as a homosexual, and from whom he received some of his instructions. Penn accused Norton of stealing checks, but he was acquitted of the charge and released.

    In 1965 Norton went to Albany, Georgia, where he was contacted by "the Captain," who may be also known as "Del Merton." In Albany in 1966 he saw a man he now knows to be Clay Shaw with James A. Gray, an extreme right-wing political power, talking together at the Double Gate Country Club. Gray then offered to help establish Norton in Albany with a $6,000 loan, which was ostensibly and surreptitiously repaid by the CIA. Norton described Gary as a dangerous person and moneyman behind the Continental Room, where Gordon Leonard was the front man. Norton later crossed paths with Clay Shaw once again at the Domino Bar in Atlanta.

    In Albany, Norton was told to recruit the services of an ex-Marine police officer, John Stickler, and a friend, Jack C. White, Jr., but failed to follow through on the assignment.

    In late November 1966 Norton was instructed to go to Freeport, Grand Bahamas Island, where he was to get the names of the homosexuals working at the missile tracking station on Grand Bahama, his last assignment for the CIA. After a week he returned to Miami where he called his contact, a "Mr. Green," who informed him that "something was brewing in New Orleans and…he should take a long, quiet vacation."

    According to the NODA report, "Norton claims he had no idea as to the nature of the New Orleans development, and that he had no idea why he was being told to take this vacation. It worried him a great deal, so he went on a long circuitous trip attempting to find out what was happening, shy he had been summarily dismissed, so to speak. He suspected that he had done something wrong but did not know the nature of the misdeed.


    He first went to Key West to contact a CIA friend there, but was unsuccessful. He returned to Miami but was unable to reach Green again. He then drove to Savanna, and by this time was really frightened. He got in a plane and flew to Dallas and tried to contact a man named Stanley Walsh, who he had known in Houston, a man he describes as a former trapeze artist, a former paratrooper who had been working for the agency…"

    Flying to Honolulu, Norton contacted a retired naval captain, a doctor then in private practice, who told Norton to forget the problem. Another CIAcontact, Bill Rusk, came from Texas, an alcoholic with Mafia connections who ran a liquor store in the Pioneer Hotel, who told him, "Join the party or get out."

    From there Norton went to Canada to hide out, but inexplicitly talked to a reporter, John Taylor of the British Columbia Vancover Sun, requesting that Taylor put him in contact with the New Orleans District Attorney's office. On August 5, 1967, the headline read: "AMERICAN, 'NOWHERE ELSE TO GO' COMES HERE TO TELL FANTASTIC TALE LINKS CIA WITH OSWALD, CLAY SHAW."

    "A link between Lee Harvey Oswald, Clay Shaw, David Ferrie and the Central Intelligence Agency is claimed by a man now in Vancover. Donald P. Norton, 35, told The Sun he encountered all three while he was on the payroll of the CIA, the U.S. espionage agency."

    "Norton has been interviewed here and in New Orleans by officials of the New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrision, whose investigation has been questioned by many sources, alleged a conspiracy between Shaw and Oswald in the assassination of former U.S. president John F. Kennedy."

    "…Norton first came to see The Sun, July 8. Since then many details of Norton's story have been confirmed. But the authenticity of his central claims defy verification by normal newspaper investigation…"
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

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    From H&L p 187:

    Donald P Norton began his employment with the CIA in early 1958 at Fort
    Benning, Georgia. In February his CIA handler told him to meet a man named "Hugh
    Ferris" at the Atlanta Airport and pick up a package. Norton arrived at the airport and
    met "Hugh Ferris," who was wearing sunglasses and accompanied by a young lady
    named Carlotta Roth, a dancer at the Domino Lounge in Atlanta. "Ferris" gave Norton
    a package, which appeared to be a case of phonograph records, and told him "it" was
    in the case. Norton understood that "it" was $150,000 in cash which was to be delivered
    to Carlo Media, a Cuban television star who was working with the CIA against the cor-
    rupt regime of Fulgencio Batista.


    After travelling to Cuba and delivering the package to Media, Norton returned
    to Atlanta and reported to his CIA contact. His contact instructed him to once again meet
    187"Hugh Ferris" at the Atlanta airport. When "Ferris" arrived at the meeting, Norton
    noticed that he was wearing a very sloppy wig. Two years later, in 1960, Norton visited New
    Orleans and stopped by the My-0-My Club, and saw the man from whom he had picked up the
    package in Atlanta. Norton positively identified the man as David W. Ferrie.11

    From H&L, p. 412:

    September--Lee Oswald in Mexico


    Donald P. Norton, the CIA agent who received $150,000 from David Ferrie in
    1958 and delivered the cash to Havana, was given another assignment involving Cuba
    in the fall of 1962. On this occasion he was given a case full of money and told to travel
    to Monterrey, Mexico and meet "Harvey Lee." Norton took the case, traveled to
    Monterrey as directed, and checked into the Yamajel Hotel. Before he was able to get
    to his room Norton was met by "Harvey Lee."

    The two men went into the hotel bar to drink a couple of beers and relax.
    Norton recalled that "Harvey Lee" refused to look him in the eye. He described
    "Harvey Lee" as a man of slight build who was dressed casually and said that he was
    from New Orleans. W hen Norton saw photographs of "Lee Harvey Oswald" in the
    newspaper following the assassination, he said the man was identical to the "Harvey
    Lee" he met in Monterrey, except that his hair appeared to be thinner. Norton delivered the
    case full of money to "Harvey Lee" and was given a briefcase full of documents in re-
    turn.

    Norton took the documents and drove, as instructed, to Calgary in Alberta,
    Canada. W hen approached by his CIA contact, who identified himself by using the
    phrase, "The weather is very warm in Tulsa," Norton told his contact the documents
    were in his room. Norton retrieved the documents and met his contact in the parking
    lot, where he found the man sitting in a Volkswagen. Norton gave the documents to his
    contact and then left. He then telephoned Mr. Albert Penn, another of his CIA contacts
    in Five Points, Alabama. Penn instructed Norton to proceed to Boston, Mass, which he
    did.

    NOTE: The importance of Donald Norton s testimony is that it places Lee Oswald in
    Mexico while Harvey Oswald was working at Leslie Welding in Fort Worth.

    -------------------------------------------------

    Peter,

    Thank you for keeping information like this percolating. I have to say, though, that in numerous conversations with JA following his extraordinary efforts to investigate the Donald P. Norton saga, he is extremely skeptical of the Norton, Judge, Brussell tale. That hardly proves it's incorrect, though.

    Jim

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    Well, it is possible that someone is impersonating Norton - or that he has a 'double' after Dallas. If his role is as central as hinted at by many it is surprising to me that he is still alive or not a rabbit hole to dive down...but who knows.....John had a great memory and was not given to inventing stories......I believe he told this one as he remembered it. That doesn't mean he met the real [if such a term is even possible] 'Norton' - or that 'Norton's' [singular or plural] role[s] might not be more complex [and more highly disguised] than portrayed.

    And then there is then non-trivial matter of Donald O. Norton and Donald P. Norton...with other Nortons possibly making the forest even denser.

    Attachment 5950 Attachment 5951
    Last edited by Peter Lemkin; 05-04-2014 at 06:43 AM.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  4. #4

    Default Posted elsewhere on this site by Bernice Moore

    FW: Donald P Norton then and Now? (Oswald double)?





    Message body

    Here is some first-hand info from one of our group that went to an Oswald High School Reunion and interviewed his buddies and friends. We have Dr. Kurian on video attesting to his statement. This is not heresay from some book, but first person narrative. Donald Norton, whom I spoke with briefly when buying a hat at “Red’s Fishing Tackle Store” in Avon Park Florida fits the larger profile. This kind of verification below is extremely rare in the JFK case.

    “one Oswald (small, scrappy, undernourished) sees Dr Kurian, the same kid is in Dorrit Wolf's art class in NYC....another Oswald, a big kid is seen by Dr. Hartogs at the Youth House.....the kid that moved from Ft Worth to NYC was the big one remembered by the school friends I talked to at the Arlington Heights class reunion.....the "official, historic Oswald" the little runt is pictured in the Bronx Zoo photo ....none of Lee Harvey Oswald's class mates recognised that photo, all I got from them was, big, husky, the girls said he was "a hunk"....one gal remembered him as having his own gang of followers, always wearing a black leather jacket......not the little runt photographed by his "brother" in front of the Bronx Zoo....this is where the dual personalities first emerge....this was legend building par excellence....when the KGB checked someone out inside the U.S....they were thorough, read John Barron's book KGB.... but the.Oswald legend would all check out.....”.

    Here is what I sent out in 2007 regarding the book “Harvey & Lee” and it’s importance to the JFK case.


    In his classic definitive work on the two Oswalds by John Armstrong, “Harvey & Lee”, now available from Andy W at the Last Hurrah Bookshop in Williamsport PA, Donald P Norton is discussed as a double for Lee Harvey Oswald. The attached story by John Judge is a very good perspective from his days in Dayton Ohio.
    When one member of the South Florida Research Group tracked Donald P Norton from Jupiter Florida to Avon Park Florida 3 years ago, some of our group made a visit to his Fishing Tackle store called “Red’s” to see if he fit the profile. Armstrong believes that Norton dyed his hair red. John visited his home in Jupiter, posing as a buyer, several years ago. When John returned to the house on the following Monday, it was completely empty, and Norton had moved to Avon Park. In my opinion, the one in Avon Park fit the profile, from both age and build, hair is red. John Armstrong believes that the Oswald shot in Dallas was the Middle Eastern double that spoke fluent Russian, while the real Oswald has been moving about ever since the Dallas event.
    Several people have requested to see the photo of Norton from the recent 2005 Avon Park newspaper interview, and it is attached here.For further information on Donald P Norton, see pages 187, 412, 491, 521 and 617 in Armstrong’s book. There are hundreds of pages on Harvey Lee Oswald and Lee Harvey Oswald.
    Here is an updated piece by Jack White December 2010....https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums...9413#post29413

    12-11-2010 04:45 AM #23


    Posts

    From a 2007 posting by the late Rich DellaRosa on his forum:


    Norton for beginners...(posted with permission from Rich DellaRosa.)

    ..............

    Just a brief recap for the newbies:

    A person who identified himself as Donald Norton introduced himself to researchers
    Mae Brussell and John Judge in the early 1970s and told them he was Lee Oswald.

    For a more detailed account see: http://jfkresearch.c...topic,38.0.html

    (Mae later told Judge that "Norton had been supporting her radio show by sending
    contributions he called CONSCIENCE MONEY...jw)

    Several, let's call them researchers, have been muddying the waters regarding this
    individual. I have a problem with folks who are careless with research and it has been
    demonstrated that when erroneous information gets on the internet it takes on a life
    of its own.

    In his comprehensive research on the 2 Oswalds, John Armstrong investigated Donald
    O. Norton. He spoke to people claiming to know Norton when he was growing up in
    Stowe, Ohio, outside of Akron and John traveled to a variety of locations where Norton
    had lived and was employed. Armstrong has done more research on Norton than
    anyone else I know.

    The question, as yet unanswered conclusively, is "Can Donald Oreste Norton be
    the man who was born Lee Harvey Oswald in 1939 in New Orleans??"

    In 2003, John Armstrong decided not to include Norton in his book Harvey & Lee
    because although his research was exhaustive he felt he was less than 100%
    certain that Norton is Oswald. John established high standards in performing
    his research. I wish all researchers followed suit.

    When last we left Lee Oswald in John's book, Lee Oswald was mistaken for Harvey on
    11/22/63 by Officer J.D. Tippit. Tippit ostensibly was supposed to locate and kill
    Harvey. Lee, in an act of self defense, shot Tippit before Tippit could shoot him.
    Lee then walked off into history.

    He then seemed to reappear to Judge and Brussell. When news of that encounter
    became known, various researchers began a search for Donald O. Norton. Some
    tracked him to various locales from Ohio to Florida.

    In a case where we find two Oswalds, two Marguerites, two Judyth Bakers (??),
    we have two Don Nortons. A Donald P. Norton turned up during the
    Garrison investigations in the late 1960s. Donald P. was a homosexual
    plant who performed a series of assignments for the CIA and who, while
    performing those duties, encountered Oswald and Clay Shaw. Donald P. was
    mentioned in Paris Flammonde's book on the Garrison investigation and
    it appears that Flammonde has written further about him in subsequent books
    and in an upcoming, yet to be released, book. Please note: Donald P. and
    Donald O. Norton are 2 separate people, unrelated except for similar names.

    John Armstrong last tracked Donald O. Norton to a residence in Jupiter, FL
    on the east coast area of Ft Lauderdale. Though John attempted numerous
    times to confront Norton, he never came face-to-face with him. It seemed
    that Norton kept one step ahead of Armstrong.

    In 2003 I ran a People Search report on Donald O. Norton. At that time,
    his current residence was listed as Avon Park, FL, about a 45 minute drive
    from here. When Armstrong was in my office, I asked him if he was aware
    that Norton had apparently moved from Jupiter to Avon Park. He wasn't.

    It is important to note that in the report, there was more than one residence
    listed for Norton in the past but where Norton never actually resided. One
    notable one was in Nevada which curiously had been a residence for
    Art Swanson, a self-admitted former CIA employee. That house was owned
    or financed by Boatman's bank in St Louis which is believed to be a CIA
    front company. Although Norton never actually lived at that address, he
    apparently listed that residence on a credit application. Armstrong discovered
    another address in Seattle but where neither Norton, nor his wife Lexie,
    ever resided.

    Now when we came upon this information, we shared it on the forum and a
    few individuals began to follow up on some leads and some began to post
    on other venues and mis-stated much of the above.

    One or two discovered that the Avon Park Norton had colored his hair red
    and had adopted the nickname "Red." They further discovered that Red
    operated a bait & tackle shop and booked deep sea fishing charters
    (a bit strange since Avon Park is not on either of Florida's coasts).

    Now one of those guys found an email address for Red and he sent him an
    email asking if he was Lee Harvey Oswald? And Red wrote back "No."

    Case closed, huh? If nothing else ol' Red knew we found him. Just imagine
    someone denying they had a part in a capital offense. Duh.

    Add to all this strangeness the fact that recently Red closed his tackle shop
    and left Avon Park almost literally over night. Norton has done that before.

    Donald O. Norton of Stowe, Ohio was born in 1949 -- which makes him
    10 years younger than Lee Oswald. And, it would have made him 14
    in 1963. That would seem to rule out Norton being the birth Oswald,
    right?

    Hmmmmmm, well no, not exactly. Suppose for a moment that a
    Donald O. Norton was born in 1949 in Stowe, Ohio in a dysfunctional
    family. He went to school there, and he had a real birth certificate and
    a real Social Security #. Then something happened -- perhaps he
    was killed or MIA in Viet Nam.

    If after Lee Oswald killed Tippit, he was to be given a new identity
    (name, birth certificate, SS#, etc) rather than given him a bogus,
    made up identity what if they gave him Donald O. Norton's ID? All
    "they" would need to do was obscure the details of Norton's death.

    Few researchers, it seems, are able to grasp this possibility.

    That being said, I think there are a few important issues:

    * Donald P. Norton and Donald O. Norton are not the same person and they should
    not be confused. There is no evidence presented that Donald P. ever impersonated Oswald.

    * I t has not been proven that the Avon Park Norton (Red) is the same Norton that
    Armstrong tracked to Jupiter, FL.

    * John Armstrong chose not to mention Donald O. Norton in his book Harvey &
    Lee. Any references to Donald Norton in Harvey & Lee are for Donald P. Norton.

    Frog
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  5. #5

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    Ah, that's right.... I was getting Donald O. Norton and Donald P. Norton confused. Thanks!

    At any rate, I remember talking to JA ten or 12 years ago about Norton, and, if memory serves, he did a considerable amount of investigation in Florida about the guy and ended up thinking he probably wasn't the birth Oswald, though I don't recall the specifics. I'll try to remember to ask him about it the next time we talk.

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    Peter these attachments don't open for me.


    Attachment 5950 Attachment 5951
    "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
    Buckminster Fuller

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hargrove View Post
    Ah, that's right.... I was getting Donald O. Norton and Donald P. Norton confused. Thanks!

    At any rate, I remember talking to JA ten or 12 years ago about Norton, and, if memory serves, he did a considerable amount of investigation in Florida about the guy and ended up thinking he probably wasn't the birth Oswald, though I don't recall the specifics. I'll try to remember to ask him about it the next time we talk.
    Please DO!~ I'd be very interested to hear what he is willing to say publicly about this, now. Jack White before his death in confidence told me quite a lot about what JA had researched vis-a-vis 'Norton' and also felt he couldn't say much more than he told me - do to promises or confidentiality to JA. The general impression I got [but I could be wrong and it might have changed] was that JA felt D. P. Norton might well have been an Oswald clone.....or 'double' - at some point [if not THE double of the masterwork of JA] - but that because he couldn't nail it down, with multiple sources, to his satisfaction, he left it out of his book entirely [an honorable thing to have done]. He will have at his fingertips D.P.N.'s current address - have him put that address into Google Earth [see my post about that on another thread] and if that [strange alteration of the home] doesn't fit into what he knows.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Millea View Post
    Peter these attachments don't open for me.


    Attachment 5950 Attachment 5951
    Not working for me either Peter
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

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    The Donald Norton thing, both DPN and DON, is very intriguing on many levels. I'd love to see what JA has to say.
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magda Hassan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Millea View Post
    Peter these attachments don't open for me
    Not working for me either Peter
    Don't worry, be happy....they are jpgs of pdf documents that only have the same article by JJ. No new information. I had actually tried to remove them, but the system only put them in some other dimension.....
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

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