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Thread: Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live

  1. Default Malaysian PM Statement

    Calm, dignified, measured common sense as counterpoint to the continuing hysterical denunciations of Russia by western politicos, pundits and media.


    Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash: Full statement of Najib Razak on MH17 Agreement


    Published on Jul 22, 2014 12:26 AM

    A file picture of Malaysia's Prime Minister Najib Razak addressing a press conference on July 18, 2014, after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 carrying 298 people from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed in eastern Ukraine. --PHOTO: AFP

    Following is the statement delivered on Monday night by Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak on the latest development in the MH17 crash:
    In recent days, we have been working behind the scenes to establish contact with those in charge of the MH17 crash site.
    That contact has now been made. Under difficult and fluid circumstances, we have been discussing the problems that have occupied us all: securing vital evidence from the aircraft, launching an independent investigation, and above all recovering the remains of those who lost their lives.
    Tonight, we have established the basis of an agreement to do just that.
    Earlier this evening I spoke to Alexander Borodai, who is in command of the region where the tragedy occurred. We have agreed the following:
    · Firstly, the remains of 282 people, currently in Torez, will be moved by train to Kharkiv, where they will be handed over to representatives from the Netherlands. The train will depart this evening Ukraine time, and will be accompanied by six Malaysian members of the recovery team. The remains will then be flown to Amsterdam on board a Dutch C130 Hercules, together with the Malaysian team. Following any necessary forensic work, the remains of Malaysian citizens will then be flown home to Malaysia.
    · Secondly, at approximately 9pm tonight Ukraine time, the two black boxes will be handed over to a Malaysian team in Donetsk, who will take custody of them.
    · Thirdly, independent international investigators will be guaranteed safe access to the crash site to begin a full investigation of the incident.
    I must stress that although agreement has been reached, there remain a number of steps required before it is completed.
    There is work still to be done, work which relies on continued communication in good faith. Mr Borodai and his people have so far given their co-operation.
    I ask that all parties continue to work together to ensure that this agreement is honoured; that the remains of our people are returned, that the black box is handed over, and that the international team is granted full access to the site.
    Only then can the investigation into MH17 truly begin; only then can the victims be afforded the respect they deserve. We need to know what caused the plane to crash, and who was responsible for it, so that justice may be done.
    In recent days, there were times I wanted to give greater voice to the anger and grief that the Malaysian people feel. And that I feel. But sometimes, we must work quietly in the service of a better outcome.
    I understand that for the families, nothing can undo this damage. The lives taken cannot be given back; the dignity lost cannot be regained.
    My heart reaches out to those whose loved ones were lost on MH17. We hope and pray that the agreement reached tonight helps bring them a clear step towards closure.
    ENDS
    Peter Presland

    ".....there is something far worse than Nazism, and that is the hubris of the Anglo-American fraternities, whose routine is to incite indigenous monsters to war, and steer the pandemonium to further their imperial aims"
    Guido Preparata. Preface to 'Conjuring Hitler'
    "Never believe anything until it has been officially denied"
    Claud Cockburn


  2. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Jarman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Rigby View Post
    Troublemaking Washington: Pushing Ukraine to the Brink

    by MIKE WHITNEY

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/...e-to-the-brink

    So all Putin has to do is sit tight and he wins, mainly because the EU needs Moscow's gas. If energy supplies are terminated or drastically reduced, prices will rise, the EU will slide back into recession, and Washington will take the blame. So Washington has a very small window to draw Putin into the fray, which is why we should expect another false flag incident on a much larger scale than the fire in Odessa. Washington is going to have to do something really big and make it look like it was Moscow's doing. Otherwise, their pivot plan is going to hit a brick wall.
    The date of publication? 9 July 2014.
    Great article...can't believe I've never heard of this guy before.
    I thoroughly concur and have posted the full article HERE for the record.
    The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
    Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14

  3. #143

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    Sigh.

    You really couldn't make this up.

    The Anglo-Yanks are really working overtime to degrade Putin as the facts about the downed airliner over Ukraine damage their credulity and credibility (it's not hard to do either, either - if you see what I mean?)

    So, now a "new" public inquiry into the death of Alexander Litvinenko has been announced by the wally Home Secretary Theresa May - presumably on doers from here even wally-ier Prime Minister David Cameroon.

    Presumably this flags Downing Street's intention that a lot more is to come about the evil Russia, as an inquiry takes time to get up and running? On the other hand it could all just be about capturing today's headlines, I suppose? Cameroon is a king of the ploy of hype over substance.


    Alexander Litvinenko: public inquiry into spy's death to be announced

    Home secretary is expected to say inquiry will take over from inquest in move likely to anger Vladimir Putin




    Alexander Litvinenko in hospital in 2006 after he was poisoned with polonium-210. Photograph: Natasja Weitsz/Getty Images

    The government will announce on Tuesday that a public inquiry will be held into the death of the poisoned former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko, it has been reported.
    Mystery has surrounded the death of the former KGB officer since he died after drinking tea laced with radioactive polonium-210 with two ex-colleagues at a London hotel in 2006.
    But the latest move, which will reportedly be announced by the home secretary, Theresa May, will mean investigators can look into whether the Russian state was behind his murder.
    The government has until now resisted launching a public inquiry, and instead said it would "wait and see" what a judge-led inquest found.
    But Litvinenko's widow Marina challenged this and the high court ruled the home secretary must reconsider.
    The move is likely to anger the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, at a time when relations are strained in the aftermath of the downing of the Malaysia Airlines flight in Ukraine.
    The Daily Telegraph has reported that May will tell parliament that a public inquiry will take over from the inquest.
    Litvinenko, 43, who fled to Britain in 2000, was poisoned with radioactive polonium-210 while drinking tea with two Russian men, one a former KGB officer, at the Millennium hotel in Grosvenor Square, central London.
    His family believes he was working for MI6 at the time and was killed on the orders of the Kremlin.
    The former KGB bodyguard Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitri Kovtun have been identified as the prime suspects, but both deny any involvement and remain in Russia.
    Ministers have been under pressure since last year when Sir Robert Owen, who was conducting the inquest, said he could not hold a "fair and fearless" investigation.
    A government spokeswoman said: "An announcement in relation to the death of Alexander Litvinenko is due to be made on Tuesday morning. We will provide no further details until an announcement has been made to the House."
    The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
    Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14

  4. #144

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    It looks like France, Germany and continental Europe know the real story and say Nyet!

    Crashing the slowly recovering Euro by sanctions against Russia and their gas, would only help to support a gradually asphyxiating dollar.


    Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash: France and Germany accused of going soft on Putin as sanctions talks stall



    Countries reliant on Russian trade ‘putting money before morality’ after MH17 crash

    OLIVER WRIGHT , JOHN LICHFIELD


    Monday 21 July 2014

    American and British attempts to persuade other European leaders to impose a package of tough new EU sanctions on Russia appeared to have stalled this evening.

    Senior French and German diplomatic sources indicated that they were unlikely to back British proposals for new wide-ranging restrictions on key Russian energy, finance and defence firms.
    Privately, senior British government sources admit that resistance from other European capitals means it is unlikely that new sanctions will be agreed at a meeting of foreign ministers in Brussels tomorrow, although they stress that the situation is “fluid”.
    An agreement was reached on Monday night at the UN Security Council when Russia joined other nations in voting for an independent investigation into the Malaysia Airlines disaster and an end to military activity in eastern Ukraine, after a sometimes emotional session in New York.
    The Russians faced harsh criticism however for their handling of the separatists. But the promise by rebels to belatedly hand over to Malaysian authorities the black boxes from the destroyed flight MH17, as well as the start today of the repatriation process of those killed on the plane, has strengthened the hand of those arguing thatfurther sanctions could hamper future Russian co-operation.
    Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash: Dutch newspapers respond with anger and despair as wait for return of bodies continues
    1 of 10




    Much, British officials say, will depend on the position of the Dutch, who lost 193 citizens in the crash, and whether they calculate that the imposition or threat of further sanctions will help or hinder the investigation into the attack.
    The Dutch Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, said today that “all political, economic and financial options” were on the table if access did not improve to the area in eastern Ukraine where the Malaysian airliner went down, killing all 298 people on board.
    In a statement to the House of Commons David Cameron made plain his frustration with other European leaders, including the French President, François Hollande, and the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, for being too cautious in imposing wide-ranging trade bans.
    Singling out France he suggested that Mr Hollande should suspend the delivery of two Mistral warships that are due to be handed over to Russia in October.
    “We would not sell further arms to Russia [and] we believe other European countries should be doing the same.
    “Frankly, in this country it would be unthinkable to fulfil an order like the one outstanding that the French have.”
    READ MORE: WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT RUSSIAN CLAIMS
    EVIDENCE MOUNTING OF PRO-RUSSIAN LINK TO ATTACK
    RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES POINT FINGER AT UKRAINIAN JET


    But Mr Cameron said “for too long” there had been reluctance on the part of “too many European countries” to face up to “implications of what is happening in eastern Ukraine”.
    Raising the spectre of the Second World War, Mr Cameron added that Europe should need no reminding of the “consequences of turning a blind eye when big countries bully smaller countries”.
    “We should not shrink from standing up for the principles that govern conduct between independent nations in Europe – and which ultimately keep the peace on our continent,” he said. “It is time to make our power, influence and resources felt.”
    Among the sanctions for which the UK is understood to be pushing are measures against the Russian airline Aeroflot, which last month launched a low-cost subsidiary Dobrolyot whose maiden flight connected Moscow with the recently annexed Crimea.
    Diplomatic sources said on Monday night that negotiations on an EU response were “still very fluid” ahead of the talks but that the most likely outcome was a speeding up in the process of naming individuals and companies banned from doing business in Europe because of their direct involvement in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
    There could also be a renewed threat of so-called Tier 3 sanctions targeted at sectors of the Russian economy such as finance, oil and gas or defence.
    But Britain is far more hawkish than Paris and Berlin, which fear that the immediate imposition of further sanctions could be counter-productive. They worry that it could hamper Russian co-operation into the crash investigation as well as making it harder domestically for President Putin to withdraw support from Ukrainian separatists.
    “Sanctions are a means to achieve a goal but are not a goal themselves,” said a German diplomatic source.
    “They are really only useful if they continue to be a threat.”
    READ MORE: AN AUDIENCE WITH ALEXANDER BORODAI
    VICTIMS' BODIES FINALLY LEAVE UKRAINE
    MALAYSIA AIRLINES TO 'FILE FOR BANKRUPTCY OR GO PRIVATE'


    French officials added that they expected the foreign ministers meeting would probably lead to renewed threats of stronger sanctions but will make few firm decisions.
    Paris also does not want to be railroaded into a ban on military sales to Moscow that could force it to renege upon the Mistral deal.
    But America is keen for Europe to take a much stronger line with Mr Putin – in part because 50 per cent of Russia’s trade is with the EU.
    Speaking at the White House, President Barack Obama said Vladimir Putin had to “get serious” about quelling the hostilities in eastern Ukraine and to use his influence over separatists there to stop getting in the way of an international investigation of the downing of Flight MH17.
    “The separatists are removing evidence from the crash site,” Mr Obama asserted, as well as impeding the access of investigators. “All of which begs the question: what exactly are they trying to hide?”
    Mr Putin, he said, had “direct responsibility” to compel the separatists to get out of the way of international investigators, warning Moscow it will be penalised further if it doesn’t act. Mr Obama made no mention of any divisions between the US and Europe on how far those sanctions might be taken.
    “If Russia continues to violate Ukraine’s sovereignty… then Russia will only further isolate itself from the international community and the cost of Russia’s behaviour will continue to increase,” the US President insisted.
    The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
    Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14

  5. #145

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    What timing on Litvenenko?!..... - what I call a 'Deep Political 'coincidence''
    Last edited by Peter Lemkin; 07-22-2014 at 12:34 PM.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  6. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Guyatt View Post
    Sigh.

    You really couldn't make this up.

    The Anglo-Yanks are really working overtime to degrade Putin as the facts about the downed airliner over Ukraine damage their credulity and credibility (it's not hard to do either, either - if you see what I mean?)

    And then there is also this little treasure. https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums...0523#post90523 It all has the whiff of desperation about it. Bordering on a florid psychotic episode. But they are bringing it all out now. Seems like it is now or never. The last gasp of a discredited tatty lap dog.
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Guyatt View Post
    It looks like France, Germany and continental Europe know the real story and say Nyet!
    Crashing the slowly recovering Euro by sanctions against Russia and their gas, would only help to support a gradually asphyxiating dollar.
    There are growing indications of wobbles by both France and Germany over further support for the Anglo-US madness of driving Russia further and further into a corner. Maybe it's just me and the hope that springs eternal but I sense an air of near desperation in the post MH17 Anglo-US posturing; as though they sense just how close they are to their whole house of cards collapsing around their ears.

    A couple of links from this morning's round:

    Peter Presland

    ".....there is something far worse than Nazism, and that is the hubris of the Anglo-American fraternities, whose routine is to incite indigenous monsters to war, and steer the pandemonium to further their imperial aims"
    Guido Preparata. Preface to 'Conjuring Hitler'
    "Never believe anything until it has been officially denied"
    Claud Cockburn


  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Presland View Post
    ...but I sense an air of near desperation in the post MH17 Anglo-US posturing; as though they sense just how close they are to their whole house of cards collapsing around their ears.
    Not everyone has a death wish nor to they intend to go down with the ship. Some are looking for the life boats right now.
    [/QUOTE]
    I think if Germany goes over to the other side it will be all over red rover for the US $ sooner rather than later.
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Guyatt View Post
    So, now a "new" public inquiry into the death of Alexander Litvinenko has been announced by the wally Home Secretary Theresa May - presumably on doers from here even wally-ier Prime Minister David Cameroon.


    Alexander Litvinenko: public inquiry into spy's death to be announced



    What about a new inquiry into the death of Jimi Hendrix who was covertly killed by MI-6 member Michael Jeffery and covered-up by the British Government?

  10. #150

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Doyle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by David Guyatt View Post
    So, now a "new" public inquiry into the death of Alexander Litvinenko has been announced by the wally Home Secretary Theresa May - presumably on doers from here even wally-ier Prime Minister David Cameroon.


    Alexander Litvinenko: public inquiry into spy's death to be announced



    What about a new inquiry into the death of Jimi Hendrix who was covertly killed by MI-6 member Michael Jeffery and covered-up by the British Government?
    If Jimi Hendrix was a Russian defector you may have a chance.
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

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