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Thread: The Battle for Novorussiya

  1. #31

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    The fighting continues to favor the NAF, if only moderately. Referring to the above maps, you can see the "fist" or bulge to the east of Gorlovka. This has been there and enlarged somewhat since the cease fire of September 2nd. Now, the effort has begun to enclose this bulge by NAF trapping thousands of UAF soldiers with their equipment in what they term a "cauldron." Thousand of AUF were killed in cauldrons in July and August, supplying lots of equipment to the NAF.

    The Saker is thinking that there is the possibility of the collapse of AUF lines. Another commentator, Col Cassad, does not see that happening in the immediate future.

    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

  2. #32

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    Ha! Yats is scientologist!

    Lauren, that little recorder thing given to the Ukies is very odd. I expect it is paid for by some religious group in the US but 1) it is in Russian and English not Urainian 2) you don't want to go into battle or even patrol with anything un-necessary and this thing is very un-necessary. Unless there is another purpose? So who is distributing it? Ukrain military or some other organisation? And if they can distribute this why can't they also distribute some real infantry soldiers and not conscript doctors tricked into being there?
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magda Hassan View Post
    Ha! Yats is scientologist!

    Lauren, that little recorder thing given to the Ukies is very odd. I expect it is paid for by some religious group in the US but 1) it is in Russian and English not Urainian 2) you don't want to go into battle or even patrol with anything un-necessary and this thing is very un-necessary. Unless there is another purpose? So who is distributing it? Ukrain military or some other organisation? And if they can distribute this why can't they also distribute some real infantry soldiers and not conscript doctors tricked into being there?
    The mind boggles!

    In other matters, V. Putin has used language never before used in his public statement to the RF Security Council. Can you spot it?

    PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA VLADIMIR PUTIN:

    Good afternoon, colleagues. We are witnessing a dramatic deterioration of the situation in southeastern Ukraine, in Donetsk People’s Republic and Lugansk People’s Republic. In this connection I would like to inform you again that a week ago, on Thursday, I sent a letter to the President of Ukraine, a written proposal to withdraw heavy weapons – artillery and multiple rocket launchers – to such a distance from which it would be impossible to fire at populated areas.

    I would like to inform you further that this proposal almost completely coincided with the requirements of the official Kiev. You know that there may be one disputed area along the line of separation between the parties to the conflict. So we suggested that weapons and heavy equipment should be withdrawn to the line that Kiev authorities themselves consider fair and corresponding to the agreements reached in Minsk on September 19, 2014.

    Unfortunately, we received no clear answer to our proposal; in fact, we also saw the reverse action, namely the Kiev government has given an official order to launch large-scale combat operations along almost the entire perimeter of contact between the opposing sides.

    The result: dozens of dead and wounded, and not only among servicemen on both sides, but, even more tragically, there has been loss of life among the civilian population, including children, the elderly and women. The artillery, multiple rocket launchers and aircraft are firing indiscriminately, directly at densely populated areas.

    All of this is happening to the accompaniment of propaganda slogans about the quest for peace and the search for those responsible. The responsibility is borne by those who issue such criminal orders. The people who do this should know that there is no other way to solve such conflicts but through peace negotiations and political means. We often hear, including from today’s official Kiev, that this is their preferred method of addressing issues, but the reality is quite different. I hope that common sense will eventually triumph.
    I would like to call for a moment of silence to honour the victims, including those who died at a bus stop in Donetsk.
    (Moment of silence.)
    Thank you.
    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

  4. #34

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    Two things jump out at me. I haven't checked any of the other public statements but I do find this interesting. One is that he refers to sending a letter to the 'President' of the Ukraine. And he doesn't mean the legitimate President Yanukovich. So he is giving some legitimacy to the junta. Second is that he refers to DPR and LPR and is also giving them legitimacy. So they are not part of Ukraine any more.
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

  5. #35

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    Maggie, those are the two I noticed. But there is more to say. From The Saker:

    A Key Day in the Ukrainian Conflict? by Alexander Mercouris

    This may turn out to be a critical day in the evolution of the Ukrainian conflict.

    1. The Russian Security Council met today. We do not (obviously) have a full account but Putin's website has provided some details.

    Strikingly, Putin referred to the junta as "official Kiev" and not "the Ukrainian government" or "the Ukrainian side". He also referred to the two east Ukrainian republics as "the Donetsk People's Republic" and "the Lugansk People's Republic".

    This is the closest Putin has yet come to since Poroshenko's election in implying that the junta is not the legitimate authority in the Donbass and that the two NAF republics are.

    2. Putin also pointedly referred to "criminal orders" coming from "official Kiev".

    http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/23512

    3. Putin has also had a telephone conversation with Lukashenko, who is a key partner in relation to the Ukrainian conflict. Again we have scarcely any information about what was discussed but Putin will have wanted to ensure that Lukashenko remains on board. I expect a phone call to Nazarbayev shortly.

    4. We now know from comments made by Shuvalov at Davos that Beijing is being consulted all the time. The key point about what happened at Davos is that Shuvalov made it absolutely clear that Russia will not submit to sanctions and Kostin of VTB gave a very clear warning against any attempts to exclude Russian banks from the SWIFT payments system. The Financial Times has a good summary of the comments Shuvalov and Kostin made and I attach it below.

    5. The Russian Justice Ministry meanwhile has formally banned a number of Ukrainian organisations including Right Sector. Some of us are surprised that they had not been banned already.

    http://itar-tass.com/en/russia/773105

    6. Zakharchenko has said that the Minsk Memorandum no longer applies. This is not the same document as the Minsk Protocol, which was the original ceasefire agreement that was agreed on 5th September 2014. Rather, it is the technical follow-up document that purported to set out the ceasefire line and which provided for the withdrawal of heavy weapons, which was agreed on 19th September 2014. Neither the Minsk Protocol nor the Minsk Memorandum have ever been implemented. By saying the Minsk Memorandum no longer applies Zakharchenko has freed the NAF to pursue offensive operations, which is currently what it is doing.

    7. Lastly, Zakharchenko has also again been saying that the DPR's/LPR's decision to secede from the Ukraine is final.

    Now it may be that all these discussions and conversations and comments are uncoordinated and do not in total amount to anything. Perhaps there has been no change in Russian policy. However they do look like a hardening of position and perhaps give clues that the Russians have at least for the moment given up hope of the diplomatic approach. They also suggest a preparation for a battening down of the hatches in case another round of sanctions is on the way.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    From the Financial Times:

    One of Russia’s top bankers on Friday warned that excluding the country from the Swift banking payment system would be tantamount to “war”.

    The suggestion that Russia could be shut out of Swift triggered widespread alarm in Moscow’s financial community when it was floated by western politicians last summer. Russia’s banks rely heavily on the Belgium-based payments system for both domestic and international payments. However, the move was at the time considered too punitive a sanction, being described by one adviser as “the nuclear option”.

    Speaking at a panel in Davos on Friday Andrei Kostin, chief executive of VTB, Russia’s second-largest bank, said: “If there is no Swift, there is no banking . . . relationship, it means that the countries are on the verge of war, or they are definitely in a cold war.”

    “The next day, the Russian and American ambassadors would have to leave the capitals,” he added.

    Mr Kostin’s comments highlight how the west’s sanctions regime is creating a sense of anger and defiance among the Russian political and business elite.

    “The more you press Russia, I do not think the situation will change,” he said, pointing out that the country was moving to reduce its reliance on western payment systems such as Swift.

    “We have already created a domestic alternative to the Swift system . . . and we need to create alternatives internationally.”

    He drew attention to efforts under way between Russia and China to create a separate platform of their own, outside western control.

    Igor Shuvalov, Russia’s deputy prime minister, echoed this theme. “We are developing our eastern vector,” Mr Shuvalov declared, pointing out that although efforts to build links with China had been under way before the crisis, they had dramatically intensified since sanctions started, as Russia looked for alternatives to the west.

    Mr Shuvalov said that the so-called Bric countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) were ready to help each other in a financial crisis too. “Large Chinese investors are coming to us,” he said.

    The “pivot to Asia” has become a key part of Vladimir Putin’s foreign policy since the breakdown in relations with the west over Ukraine. While several flagship deals have been signed, such as the $400bn contract to supply Russian gas to China for 30 years last May, few Russian policy makers or businesspeople believe China can save the Russian economy from a painful recession.

    “The present situation looks like it is softer than [the 2008-09 financial crisis] but we are going into a long crisis situation and it may be protracted,” Mr Shuvalov said.

    But he added that foreign pressure would not succeed in changing the political leadership of the country.

    “We will survive any hardship in the country — eat less food, use less electricity,” he said.

    Alexei Kudrin, the respected former finance minister, predicted Russia could see capital outflows of $90bn this year after a record $151bn in 2014. “We should clearly understand the price we are paying for sanctions,” he said.

    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

  6. #36

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    Sooner the BRICS set up a SWIFT alternative the better off for everyone. If Washington does pull that one it really will be a declaration of war and all bets off. Duck and cover.
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

  7. #37

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    It's sheer lunacy for the neocons to have threatened this. Common sense says that Russia, China, Brics and others will develop an alternative - even if it takes time. And once established and running, other nations will switch to using it, probably on a joint basis to begin with, as a matter of settling trade transactions. But who knows thereafter? Some might switch altogether as they get increasingly fed up with the US.
    The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
    Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14

  8. #38

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    There was a grad rocket shelling in Mariupol today. The Saker thinks it was an honest mistake. The OSCE blames it on the NAF (not very credible). Lot's of debate. @Mikael Skillt, a Swedish neo-nazi sniper who is the Azov Battalion, is going with the OSCE. Good enough for him. For myself, with all of the condemnation from the US/EU spokespeople, quickly noticing and coming out with coordinated talking points, I say it quacks like a false flag.

    The Saker has a discussion about a murder of mayor in the Luhansk People's Republic along the lines of continued political intrigue -- not good.

    The coming Debalstevo cauldron is slowly forming up. Those 7000 or so NAF better hope for reinforcements or they will die.

    BUT THIS NEXT THING IS BEYOND THE PALE.

    Here is a video from the Ukraine perspective. The first part is a Ukrop commander informing his audience that yes they do shell terrorist cities and that it is quite normal. A quote:

    What if Ukrainian military leaders openly proclaimed their terror, war crimes, and genocide to TV cameras and the world, and no one in Ukraine or the Western MSM so much as blinked?
    Commander of Battalion "Shakhtersk":
    "WE ARE DELIBERATELY BOMBING CIVILIANS"."Our aim is not to kill them [per se], but to instill FEAR AND TERROR."
    Ukrainian General Vladimir Ruban:
    "Let me make it clear: the aim of the army is that after massive bombardments of the cities by heavy artillery and air craft,to enter the cities and "cleanse them". It is NORMAL MILITARY TACTICS".

    The second one is from an internet TV channel, Hromadske.tv. An "expert" is explaining why it is a good idea for the UAF to be shelling and not just the occasional mortar team.

    But here's the clinker. The station according to it Wiki page is funded by Belgium and American embassies as well as money coming from George Soros.



    Finally, I have not been putting up the gory images and videos that you run into when following the war on twitter, facebook, and many websites. But sometimes I think it is important to know what it means to shell civilian areas. Warning: very graphic. (This shelling took place in Lugansk, June 2, 2014.)

    Last edited by Lauren Johnson; 01-25-2015 at 04:06 AM.
    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

  9. #39

    Post US mercenaries in Ukraine

    From a German news source but can google translate. Video in Russian and Ukrainian has poor English captions but you can clearly hear the mercenary speak with American accent @ 2.27
    http://blauerbote.com/2015/01/25/aca...ukraine-video/

    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

  10. #40

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    I heard half an hour ago that the Ukrainian army has dragged about 300 men off the streets, restaurants, supermarkets basically any and everywhere in Dobropolje to mobilize for combat. I thought they might have already signed up if they were committed to junta? Novorussian forces closing in near reservoirs.

    http://karta-online.com/en/cities/do...999999993/12/0
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

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