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Thread: Silencers, Sniper Rifles and the CIA

  1. Default Silencers, Sniper Rifles and the CIA

    Just up at ctka.net is Carol Hewett's classic essay on the probable weapons used in the JFK assassination.

    In addition to being an authority on the Paines, she was very good on weapons and ballistics.

    http://www.ctka.net/FromTheArchive.html

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DiEugenio View Post
    Just up at ctka.net is Carol Hewett's classic essay on the probable weapons used in the JFK assassination.

    In addition to being an authority on the Paines, she was very good on weapons and ballistics.

    http://www.ctka.net/FromTheArchive.html

    Sometimes, I lay awake, like right now, pondering if everything I've shared, everything my father's told me, everything my father left me is worth telling his story. I've heard it all from a Dallas police officer by the name of Ricky White whose son says his father killed JFK, to Jackie killing her husband, and Lee Oswald's girlfriend whom I think is a very nice person after meeting her in person. I really have nothing against her, or anyone for that matter, in-fact, why would I? No one has done anything to me, but sometimes, I do have a very hard time believing how much Oswald had confided in her in only two in a half months or three that they've known each other so she says. I try not to get wrapped up into judging, everyone's innocent of a lie until proven guilty right? Is being a nice person mean you're always telling the truth?

    I know being a butt-head doesn't get you anywhere, I like to think I fall somewhere in the middle.

    Interesting that this person who wrote this article also mentions an M-1. There's no reason I should go into a story regarding what my father showed me, or I should even mention that almost eight years ago or so. I mentioned an M-1. All I can do now is report logic, something that will help me make sense out of this mess, it's articles like this I read, and my remembrances of my early years that prevent me from getting any real sleep, but that's life, sigh.

  3. #3

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    WerBel was one of the CIA's [and military's] chief experts on designing and building/supplying silencers for use in assassinations. I think it very likely his designs were used in Dallas. Of course some guns were meant to be heard...others were not.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  4. Default

    A weapon needing serious consideration here is the De Lisle carbine from WWII...

    Completely silent, accurate and deadly...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsUALdGog4U
    Once in a while you get shown the light
    in the strangest of places if you look at it right.....
    R. Hunter

  5. Default

    Yes, I agree with that one David. That one is amazingly quiet. Interesting that its based upon the Enfield.



    BTW, when I first proposed this idea to Gary Mack back when the movie JFK came out, he immediately responded with words to the effect that, then you are talking about a handgun!

    Can you believe that? In 1992, Gary Mack had never heard of the work of Mitch Werbell.

    Who I am pretty sure diagrammed that chart on p. 15 that Carol calls Figure 4. Boy is that fascinating.

    Talk about professionals.
    Last edited by Jim DiEugenio; 04-15-2016 at 08:59 PM.

  6. Default "Of course some guns were meant to be heard...others were not".

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    WerBel was one of the CIA's [and military's] chief experts on designing and building/supplying silencers for use in assassinations. I think it very likely his designs were used in Dallas. Of course some guns were meant to be heard...others were not.

    I make no claim to have outstanding information regarding Mitch Werbel and/or sound suppressed weapons, but I have to agree with Mr Lemkin about their quite possible use in Dallas on 11/22/'63. And, "of course some guns were meant to be heard...others were not", is a statement quite likely to be a fact.

    Larry
    StudentofAssassinationResearch


  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    WerBel was one of the CIA's [and military's] chief experts on designing and building/supplying silencers for use in assassinations. I think it very likely his designs were used in Dallas. Of course some guns were meant to be heard...others were not.
    Yes, I agree with everyone on this thread regarding WerBell. My understanding is, there was also a plot to hit Nixon in August 1973 in Miami Beach, and the weapons in which would be used were to be supplied by WerBell to an agent who worked for WerBell by the name of Ed. Ed would also run WerBell's guns to Mexico.

    Two American's had represented themselves as employees of Parabellum. Hemming advised these two they needed to stop representing themselves as employees, this was in 1972. According to them, Hemming's weapons didn't work, guns wouldn't fire, and explosives that didn't explode. Hemming knew about the plot regarding the hit on Nixon and even questioned the United States government about providing him this information while he was under indictment for transporting drugs.

    Needless to say, Hemming was released.
    Last edited by Scott Kaiser; 04-16-2016 at 06:41 PM.

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    A little bio....

    Mitchell WerBell, the son of a former Czarist calvary officer, was born inPhiladelphia in 1918.
    During the Second World War Werbell joined the Office of Strategic Services(OSS) and saw action in Burma and China. According to Gaeton Fonzi, this enabled WerBell to join "the superspy fraternity" that included Allen W. Dulles, William Casey, Richard Helms and E. Howard Hunt.
    After the war, WerBell lived outside of Atlanta. He also worked as an arms dealer. WerBell ran a series of weapon manufacturing and marketing firms including Military Armament Corporation, Defense Services and Quantum Ordnance Bankers. WerBell distributed advanced weaponry to selective foreign groups.
    In 1959 WerBell did covert work for Fulgencio Batista in Cuba. During this period be became friends with Gerry P. Hemming, Bernardo De Torres and Gordon Novel. Hemming and Torres were both representatives of WerBell in his arms sales business. WerBell was also rumoured to be involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Roy Hargraves told Noel Twyman that WerBell supplied silencers used by the gunmen in Dallas. Another source said that WerBell was involved with Jack Ruby.
    WerBell was interviewed by Gaeton Fonzi while carrying out research for his book, The Last Investigation(1993): "There's a helluva lot I ain't said yet, and there's a helluva lot I ain't gonna say yet... I've been in so many places, so many countries, so many revolutions, it's beginning to get all mixed up in my mind... We don't play with people like that (Jack Ruby). I mean, it's as simple as that. This guy Ruby, he called, I didn't know who the hell he was, but that was years ago."
    WerBell also did covert work in the Dominican Republic, and Vietnam. In 1966 WerBell served as adviser on Project Nassau, a planned invasion of Haiti by Cuban and Haitian exiles to oust the dictator Francois “Papa Doc” Duvalier.
    In 1967 WerBell formed a partnership with Gordon Ingram. Together they distributed the Ingram M-11, a hand-held, quiet machine gun. Six years later WerBell and his arms company, Defense Services, were indicted for allegedly trying to sell some of these Ingram submachine guns to a federal undercover agent. He was also indicted for proposing to sell 2,000 of these weapons to Robert Vesco in Costa Rica. Later, both these charges were dropped.
    Mitchell Livingston WerBell III died of cancer in 1983.


    When you're doing a military crossfire assassination of your own President, you hire the very best assassin-marksmen, and use the very best rifles/pistols possible! With men like WerBel supplying silencers, you can make any of the shots be disguised almost completely, or to the direction they came from. He even knew how to make a shot sound like it came from another direction. I think all of the stories of second-rate marksmen being used just because they 'hated' JFK are myth. This was a professional hit [and silent coup d'etat] done by military and intelligence professionals. They used the best of the best, and scripted it look like it was the work of an 'amateur' with a third-rate WWI/II rifle. If you buy that bull, you'll buy anything.
    Last edited by Peter Lemkin; 04-16-2016 at 04:47 AM.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

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    "Other exploits include an alleged, but unsubstantiated presence at Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963 when President John F. Kennedy was assassinated; spearheading the 1965 Invasion of the Dominican Republic; being tried and acquitted on charges of conspiracy to marijuana smuggling[15] reportedly in association with Gerry Patrick Hemming and with the acquiescence of Lucien Conein; and providing physical security services and training for Lyndon LaRouche security forces.

    In 1988, Sheriff Sherman Block of Los Angeles announced that Hustler publisher Larry Flynt wrote WerBell a $1 million check in 1983 to kill Hugh Hefner, Bob Guccione, Walter Annenberg, and Frank Sinatra.[16] Los Angeles television station KNBC displayed a photocopy of the check.[16] WerBell died in Los Angeles a month after receiving the check."

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Kaiser View Post
    "Other exploits include an alleged, but unsubstantiated presence at Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963 when President John F. Kennedy was assassinated; spearheading the 1965 Invasion of the Dominican Republic; being tried and acquitted on charges of conspiracy to marijuana smuggling[15] reportedly in association with Gerry Patrick Hemming and with the acquiescence of Lucien Conein; and providing physical security services and training for Lyndon LaRouche security forces.

    In 1988, Sheriff Sherman Block of Los Angeles announced that Hustler publisher Larry Flynt wrote WerBell a $1 million check in 1983 to kill Hugh Hefner, Bob Guccione, Walter Annenberg, and Frank Sinatra.[16] Los Angeles television station KNBC displayed a photocopy of the check.[16] WerBell died in Los Angeles a month after receiving the check."

    If the above is true, then this would suggest that WerBell had personal contacts with someone(s) he knew who were assassins, an appropriate title for a book. Anyways, this person would be someone WerBell worked with and knew, someone he could trust. Someone, who's already run guns for WerBell. I'm sure WerBell knew about this person's training as an assassin. I wounder, just who this silent majority person was?

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