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Thread: Sanders as a third-party candidate.....might it work?

  1. #21

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    All polls and pundits said Sanders would loose last night...he won! I think among 'registered democrats' it is about equal, when on adds independents from the center and left, Sanders wins over both Clinton and Trumph by a mile! Of course, the 'machine' doesn't want Sanders...it wants Clinton, as she is one of the 'boys' for things as usual and run by the elites on War and deception.
    Last edited by Peter Lemkin; 05-04-2016 at 06:33 AM.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  2. #22

    Default From the MSM you'd never know Sanders won.....anything.

    Bernie Wins West Virginia as Rancor for the Proletariat Builds

    Posted on May 11, 2016 by willyloman
    by Scott Creighton
    These are the times that try men’s souls.” Thomas Paine
    The fear of the dictatorship of the proletariat is real.
    Bernie Sanders won the West Virginia primary yesterday by a rather large percentage, something like 51% to 36%. It’s significant because Hillary Clinton won that primary in 2008.
    Bernie didn’t cut much into Hillary’s delegate count lead though. Officially, he garnered 16 delegates while Hillary took home 11 but Wikipedia claims he took 18 of the pledged delegates while she took 11. The Wiki page goes on to show that she got 6 of the 7 unpledged delegates (or Superdelegates) meaning the overall account was 19 to 17. A difference of 2 delegates.
    Overall the pledged delegate count currently stands at 1,716 to 1,430, a difference of 286. The Superdelegates are the real problem though with Hillary holding 523 to his paltry 39. Superdelegates are establishment party insiders who are there to make sure a real populist doesn’t rise from the ranks of the lefties to run the country. They were motivated to create this rigged system after a peanut farmer from Georgia moved into the White House.
    Can’t have that in the land of the free and home of the brave.
    Kentucky and Oregon are next week and it looks as though Bernie may win every contest this month with the exception of Guam and that would be a big deal. But not in the minds of the talking heads.
    I’ve noticed a trend developing in the media right now with all these establishment cheerleaders pretending to be journalists saying that West Virginia was expected to ‘fall” to Bernie because of high poverty rate and Hillary’s various comments about the coal industry dying off.
    Bernie supporters, as well as Trump supporters, are routinely being relegated to the ranks of “disgruntled globalization losers” who are bitter about not being included in the great free-market love-fest the millionaire TV personalities are enjoying right now. Surely it wont be long before they start talking about how all us proles are going to mess up a good thing for the rest of the country as their fear of the dictatorship of the proletariat boils within them.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  3. #23

    Default From the MSM you'd never know Sanders won.....anything.

    Bernie Wins West Virginia as Rancor for the Proletariat Builds

    Posted on May 11, 2016 by willyloman
    by Scott Creighton
    These are the times that try men’s souls.” Thomas Paine
    The fear of the dictatorship of the proletariat is real.
    Bernie Sanders won the West Virginia primary yesterday by a rather large percentage, something like 51% to 36%. It’s significant because Hillary Clinton won that primary in 2008.
    Bernie didn’t cut much into Hillary’s delegate count lead though. Officially, he garnered 16 delegates while Hillary took home 11 but Wikipedia claims he took 18 of the pledged delegates while she took 11. The Wiki page goes on to show that she got 6 of the 7 unpledged delegates (or Superdelegates) meaning the overall account was 19 to 17. A difference of 2 delegates.
    Overall the pledged delegate count currently stands at 1,716 to 1,430, a difference of 286. The Superdelegates are the real problem though with Hillary holding 523 to his paltry 39. Superdelegates are establishment party insiders who are there to make sure a real populist doesn’t rise from the ranks of the lefties to run the country. They were motivated to create this rigged system after a peanut farmer from Georgia moved into the White House.
    Can’t have that in the land of the free and home of the brave.
    Kentucky and Oregon are next week and it looks as though Bernie may win every contest this month with the exception of Guam and that would be a big deal. But not in the minds of the talking heads.
    I’ve noticed a trend developing in the media right now with all these establishment cheerleaders pretending to be journalists saying that West Virginia was expected to ‘fall” to Bernie because of high poverty rate and Hillary’s various comments about the coal industry dying off.
    Bernie supporters, as well as Trump supporters, are routinely being relegated to the ranks of “disgruntled globalization losers” who are bitter about not being included in the great free-market love-fest the millionaire TV personalities are enjoying right now. Surely it wont be long before they start talking about how all us proles are going to mess up a good thing for the rest of the country as their fear of the dictatorship of the proletariat boils within them.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  4. Default

    With new polls showing how handily Trump will beat Killary perhaps a third party option- headed by Bernie- is becoming an alternative. Imagine President Trump and the Supreme Court options. It's terrifying. I cannot vote for Hillary and I know many people feel the way I do.

  5. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawn Meredith View Post
    With new polls showing how handily Trump will beat Killary perhaps a third party option- headed by Bernie- is becoming an alternative. Imagine President Trump and the Supreme Court options. It's terrifying. I cannot vote for Hillary and I know many people feel the way I do.
    It is an interesting time. With many classical Republicans who can't stomach to vote for Trump and many classical Democrats who can't stomach to vote for Killery...who knows what will happen.......might just start to break up the one-party; two wings monopoly by dirty tricks and power politics.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  6. #26

    Default

    I think that the national security establishment and Wall St players will rally around Hillary, and she'll win.

    Trump is bringing up Vince Foster's death, and the media is calling it a "20 year old conspiracy theory," though the stuff about Trump's ties with organized crime from the same period are certainly fair game. "But a bipartisan investigation said it was a suicide!" Everyone in the corporate media goes to sleep once a bipartisan investigation puts its stamp of approval on something. Anyone asking questions after that is clearly a nutty conspiracy theorist.

  7. #27

    Default

    Sanders has made Cornell West [and Bill McKibbin and Native American activist Deborah Parker; Minnesota Congressmember Keith Ellison, who chairs the Congressional Progressive Caucus; and the Palestinian rights activist and scholar Jim Zogby, who founded the American Arab Institute] to the Democratic platform committee! Damn! Whatever Sander's faults are - and I can name a few - with appointments like THAT, I'll vote for Sanders in whatever party he is under the banner of! This hints of a deeper progressiveness then he has dared speak of publicly. West, McKibbin and the others are way way way more progressive than Sanders political personna....
    Last edited by Peter Lemkin; 05-26-2016 at 06:43 PM.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  8. #28

    Default

    Sanders was always the only choice.



    The media never mentioned that Hillary told an innocent German man who was renditioned and tortured by CIA "That's his problem". The media never mentioned that because they are aware it makes the sayer immediately ineligible for president.

  9. #29

    Default

    I filled out my absentee ballot for Sanders and mailed it in (a great thing we have in California, while a lot of states require people to stand in line for hours, only to be told that they can't vote for some reason). I really think he'll win this state, though not the nomination.

  10. #30

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    Why Bernie’s Strong Poll Numbers Against Trump Are For Real

    05/27/2016 06:28 am ET|Updated1 day ago


    • Les LeopoldAuthor, “Runaway Inequality: An Activist’s Guide to Economic Justice”


    David McNew via Getty Images


    Poll after poll shows Bernie doing better, much better, against Trump than Hillary.

    May 26 California
    Clinton 49, Trump 39: Clinton +10
    Sanders 53, Trump 36: Sanders +17

    May 25 North Carolina
    Clinton 43, Trump 47 Trump +4
    Sanders 48, Trump 44 Sanders +4

    May 25 New Jersey
    Clinton 48, Trump 37: Clinton +11
    Sanders 57, Trump 33: Sanders +24

    May 22 General Election
    Trump 43, Clinton 46: Clinton +3
    Sanders 54, Trump 39: Sanders +15

    May 17 Arizona
    Clinton 41, Trump 45: Trump +4
    Sanders 45, Trump 44: Sanders +1

    May 15 Georgia
    Trump 45, Clinton 41: Trump +4
    Trump 42, Sanders 47: Sanders +5


    Are these numbers meaningful?
    The most common response is that Bernie as yet has not been tested by the Republican’s slime machine. If he becomes the nominee they would red-bait him to death. After all, in the person of Ted Cruz, they already have a Joe McCarthy look-alike more than willing to play the part.

    We are told red-baiting will work because there is so much to attack — Bernie’s kind words for Cuba, his so-called honeymoon to the Soviet Union, and, of course, all his socialistic big government programs that he wants to foist on freedom-loving Americans.

    This meme is repeated so often (especially by Hillary surrogates) that it has taken on the status of conventional wisdom. It must be true or why would everyone be saying it?

    But, where is the evidence to show that Sanders has been hurt or would be hurt by a bombardment of red-baiting and other kinds of negative attacks?

    The People’s Republic of Vermont
    Vermont is part of the evidentiary base. It is so liberal, we are told, that Bernie’s many campaign victories are irrelevant for how he would fare across the country.

    But Vermont cast its electoral votes for Republicans from 1980 to 1988, and during that time Sanders was repeatedly elected mayor of Burlington, its largest city. By 1990 he was Vermont’s lone congressman and in 2006 he won the Senate race. In 2012, he even bested Obama’s 66 percent landslide by garnering 71 percent of the vote.

    The 2006 Senate race is revealing. Republican businessman Richard Tarrant spent $7 million of his own money to blast Bernie on everything from being soft on Osama Bin Laden to supporting child molesters. It didn’t work. Bernie won 65 percent of the vote.

    Did his Republican opponents simply forget the art of red-baiting during all those years when the state voted Republican in national elections? Why was the millionaire Tarrant unsuccessful in pinning the commie label on him? What does it mean when an overt socialist wins 65 percent and 71 percent of the vote?

    At the very least it means that in Vermont red-baiting did not work, and does not work.

    What about in the neighboring Granite State?
    OK, maybe you can claim that Vermont really was extremely liberal even while casting its votes for Reagan and Bush 1. But you can’t say that about New Hampshire and its electoral support for Ford, Reagan, Bush and Bush. It’s no left-wing haven.

    New Hampshire also shares many media markets with Vermont so its voters know all about Bernie and his democratic socialism. It should be a good barometer of how deeply red-baiting has influenced a more conservative state.

    It hasn’t. New Hampshire voters greatly prefer Sanders over Trump, and Sanders runs far ahead of Clinton’s marginal two point lead. How do Hillary supporters write-off these results?

    Wednesday, May 18 New Hampshire
    Clinton 44, Trump 42: Clinton +2
    Sanders 54, Trump 38: Sanders +16

    Who you going to believe, the polls or your lying eyes?
    Hillary supporters frequently downplay these polls. This is especially true for older voters who have witnessed the destructive power of red-baiting. In fact, during this their entire adult lives, the political spectrum has shifted to the right, and any national candidate, like George McGovern, who tried to buck that trend was roundly defeated.

    This age cohort also watched Bill Clinton triangulate to regain the presidency for the Democrats. He moved to the center by declaring that the “era of big government is over” and by “cutting welfare as we know it.” Obama also never strayed far from this neo-liberal elite political consensus. He even bought into the austerity myth and cut government jobs during the aftermath of the Great Recession.

    So we boomers seem immune to data that challenges our deeply held beliefs (near religious in intensity) that a socialist just can’t win. “This is America — the capitalist center of the universe. Of course a socialist will get trumped. The polls must be wrong. Red-baiting will work. Why? Because it always has.”

    Unfortunately Hillary supporters have no current evidence — none at all — for this claim.

    Don’t Trust Anyone over Thirty
    Bernie is doing remarkably well with independents and young people. Recent polling suggests that socialism is not a bad word among these voters. Those under thrity years of age favor socialism over capitalism by 43 to 32 margin according to a January poll by yougov.com

    Overall Americans today seem much less uptight about socialism than a generation ago:

    “Only 18% of Americans say it is specifically the “democratic socialist” label that would make them less likely to vote for the Vermont senator. The number is lower among Democrats and Independents (15%) than Republicans (25%). 23% of Democrats even say the phrase makes them more likely to back Sanders. But most Americans say the label makes no difference - 39% wouldn’t support Sanders anyway, and 13% would support him regardless.”
    The Honeymooners
    Sure, sure, young folks love him, but the media has yet to focus on the many ways Sanders remains an unrepentant 1960s Marxist. When they do, his poll numbers will plummet. As one columnist recently put it,

    “The news media, too, has been languid about highlighting the weird aspects of his background (like a post-wedding celebration in the Soviet Union) since no one has ever expected that President Sanders would be choosing a Cabinet.”
    Lindsey Graham was more direct when he declared to the roar of the Republican crowd that “The number two guy [running for the Democratic nomination] went to the Soviet Union on his honeymoon, and I don’t think he ever came back,”

    Wow! How do explain why those two lovebirds were frolicking away in the Soviet Union in 1988 just before the collapse of the communist evil empire? What the hell was Bernie thinking?

    Well, it was a funny kind of honeymoon because 10 other people went along. It turns out the two Sanders lovebirds weren’t there for connubial bliss. They were there because of a sister city program set up by that great communist sympathizer, Dwight D. Eisenhower. As In These Times reports:

    “In 1956, President Eisenhower launched the program that a decade later would be called Sister Cities International, a program still in existence today. The idea was to promote peace and understanding through connections between cities in the United States and, at first, Western Europe. The program soon spread. In 1973, Seattle became a sister city of Tashkent, the capital of Uzbekistan, then under Soviet rule. Other U.S.-Soviet sister cities soon followed despite the tensions of the Cold War. In 1988, Burlington sistered with Yaroslavl, a city 160 miles north of Moscow.”
    The Slime Machine Already at Work
    The last part of the argument against Sanders’ electability is that the Republicans have not as yet done him damage. But that’s not from want of trying. The Soviet honeymoon myth has gotten quite a bit of play by George Will, CNN’s Anderson Cooper, the New York Post, and the National Review .

    What has been the impact? Bernie’s poll numbers are rising.

    So what?
    In response to these points, Hillary supporters often throw up their hands and say, it’s too late! It’s mathematically impossible for Bernie to win. Hillary has secured the delegates fair and square. She has received 3 million more votes (not counting any of the caucuses.) Bernie should quit and get behind her now before he damages her even more.

    Here’s what!
    For the good of the nation, Hillary supporters need to break free from their own red-baiting fears. Instead they should fear the Clinton-Trump match-up. It’s time to stop debunking the polls and start thinking hard about how best to defeat Trump.

    Hillary’s e-mails, the Clinton Foundation, her Wall Street speeches will do much more damage to her than the alleged red scare will do to Bernie.

    But, if you still believe Hillary is the stronger candidate against Trump, then try to make the case without resorting to unsubstantiated fears of red-baiting. If you can peel away your preconceptions, it should become clear that that Hillary is in deep trouble, and that Bernie is the stronger candidate.

    It’s not too late to switch to Sanders before Clinton leads us to President Trump.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

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