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Thread: USA under presidency of a know-nothing, neo-fascist, racist, sexist, mobbed-up narcissist!!

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    More blue below...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Varnell View Post
    Tired of red, let's go blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    Among other things [too many to cover here] Trump denied human-caused climate change. I don't see any progress with release of secret documents on anything under Trump. The FBI and other intelligence agencies that helped him get in need to be 'repaid'. It will not only be dangerous driving while Black, but driving or walking or breathing while progressive, gay, non-white, non-Christian, non flag waver, etc. The nation, already far-right has just moved a seismic shift to the ultra-right.

    The people to blame for this are the DNC bosses who refused to let Bernie win as candidate, when he had clearly won!

    That is absolutely false.

    There is nothing the DNC did that prevented Bernie from appealing to minority voters who turned out in droves for Clinton in the primaries.

    You think because some DNC staffer called Bernie a "doofus" that cost him the nomination?

    Please!


    No one wanted another Clinton warmed over - so no one really came out to support her or vote for her.

    She's gonna win the popular vote!

    Whaddaya mean no one voted for her?

    She lost because the Sinister Six (Assange, Putin, Comey. CNN. MSNBC, Fox) abused the American people relentlessly over her fairly innocuous e-mails.


    Trump tapped into discontent with the status quo.

    Here's another media-driven myth.

    Obama's approval rating is 55%.

    What Americans are tired of is gridlock.

    They tilted Republican in 2016 because the Sinister Six poisoned the well for the Democrats.


    I think for all the wrong reasons, but never the less that is what happened.

    I wouldn't even doubt that the White House is turned into a reality TV show - or the entire country.....

    Which is why the corporate media rigged it for Trump.

    They have turned The News into a highly profitable reality TV show.

    Cliff, where have you been? The head of the DNC had to resign when leaked emails showed she and others were conspiring to deny Sanders the nomination and his delegates to have a fair vote at the DNC.

    But he was hundreds of delegates short and that had nothing to do with the DNC.

    Bernie lost the nomination well before the Convention.


    Many dirty tricks were played before to see that Sanders was denigrated by a complicit press and more....I'm not going to enumerate them.

    Dirty tricks were discussed, but not implemented.

    Name one thing the Committee did to change one vote in one state.


    They are already here on this forum.

    Hillary got almost 17 million votes, Bernie 13.2 million.

    You're claiming DNC dirty tricks stole almost 4 million votes?

    Because somebody called him a doofus? Made a big deal in an e-mail that he was Jewish?


    Why don't you vent your anger at some Trump supporters and not at those who dislike or despise him and what he stands for as much or more than you.

    No one despises him more than I and we need all of you to get up to speed and stand up to this piece of shit.

    However, I find your analysis of why and who's to blame to be nonsense - but each to his own.

    You don't live here and you haven't watched what happened with cable news.

    We all have to live with and try to overcome this increased fascist situation in an already fascist state.

    A state with fascistic tendencies is not the same as an unabashed, overt Fascist state.


    We carved out lots of freedoms under Obama -- net neutrality, same sex marriage, roll back of NSA/DEA violations of the 4th amendment, trans rights.


    The corporate media also rigged it for Clinton against Sanders - and most all of them were against Trump, but loved the revenues his antics brought in...they too now have to live with what they did.

    Actually, they had it rigged for Bernie against Clinton but Bernie turned down the chance to politicize "those damn e-mails."

    But I take your point -- they covered Trump constantly and Bernie sparingly.


    Need I mention that the Corporate media along with the Election Commission Corporation [run jointly by the Dems and Repubs] always exclude third party candidates - where people would get to hear real alternatives that would make the puppets of the establishment look bad.

    Blame the electoral college.

    Your analysis which is so full of holes I am not going to waste my time pointing out point by point are just plain wrong.

    Luv ya Peter but you didn't witness this car wreck close up.

    Your upset and rightly so, but the buggy men are not those you point to for the most part. You have invented them - though I know others in the USA share your skewed view. It is not a Deep Politically informed viewpoint IMHO.

    I invented 8 Benghazi hearings and 18 months of non-stop lies about Clinton?


    If Julian Assange had waited until after the election for the email dumps he'd been a hero.

    Now he's just another Trump sucking piece of shit.

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    Rudi Guliani will most likely become the Attorney General....so an accomplice to the crimes of 911 [and other crimes] will be the leading law 'enforcement' officer. We are going into the Dark Ages.......
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  3. #23

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    Bob Kall's analysis
    The combined machinationsof the DNC, Superdelegates and the Hillary Clinton campaign have set backDemocratic and progressive progress by 20 or more years. This article exploresthe damage done and who to blame.
    Let's start with ascreaming reality. All the polls showed that Bernie would have done far betterthan Hillary in the general election. Bernie Sanders would have won. He wouldhave won big and his coat-tails would havecarried Russ Feingold and probably many other senate and house candidates.
    There are a number oftargets for blame. But before we talk about who to blame, l let's talk aboutwhat the targets of blame should be blamed for:
    1-rigging the Democraticprimary or allowing it to happen-- that would be rigging by the DNC, rigging bycollusion of the DNC, the Clinton Campaign and the MSM, rigging by localDemocratic committee people and other leaders who obstructed fair and openprimaries and problems with primary voting. Repeat studies have shown that eventhe vote counting was rigged for some of the primaries.
    2-Loss of the Senate: ATop Down disaster-- the DNC leadership, with Obama rigged many state primaryelections for senate and house Democratic candidates-- designating losers basedon the criteria that they would be obsequious to the DNC.
    3-Loss of the House. SameTop Down rigging problem. I believe that Bernie Sanders could have won theelection big, with huge coat-tails that could have carried many house races. Millennialsand independents who stayed home would have come out to vote, to engage inGOTV.
    4-Loss of the Scaliareplacement seat on the Supreme Court and who knows how many more.
    5-Loss of voters whoshifted from Democrat or left leaning independent to become Trump Supporters.
    6-Corruption of themainstream media-- allowing and encouraging supposedly impartial media people tobecome flaming shills.
    7-Corruption of thejustice system-- the DOJ and the USA's intelligence agencies.
    8-rigging of the electionsystem. The Democrats were out-rigged. They should have learned up electionsover the last eight years and they didn't
    Now, let's talk aboutwho's to blame. I'm sure that the rabid Hillbots-- the people who were thenastiest attackers of Bernie Sanders and his supporters, will blame BernieSanders and his supporters, especially the tiny fraction who supported JillStein or who stayed home. Sorry dears, but you were either so intoxicated thatyou were going to elect a first female president or you just bought the propaganda that Hillary was the "most experiencedpresidential candidate ever" nonsense.
    Either way, you ignoredthe reality that she is a toxically, morbidly flawed, dishonest, corrupt,historically despised candidate. You deluded yourselves to believe that becauseshe'd been Secretary of State she had historic experience. The problem is, themajority of the people of America saw through her experience claims andbelieved what Bernie said, that her experience was bad experience, includingher voting for the Iraq war.
    So, first to blame arethe Uber-Hillary supporters. They could have been awake and smart enough to,from the grass roots, bottom up, reject the DNC's massive selling of Hillary.
    But next, and maybe evenmore, the DNC and the leadership of the Democratic party are to blame,collaborating with the mainstream media, particularly MSNBC and CNN, forrigging the primary and keeping the candidate who would have won by pullingindependents-- Bernie Sanders.

    Start with the DNCleadership and the vast majority of Democratic power holders-- all theSuperdelegates who committed to Hillary before Bernie Sanders was even in therace. Some were bought by the Clinton foundation. Some were bought bycorporations and billionaires. A small few were fools and cowards. GiveElizabeth Warren that small benefit of the doubt-- that she was a fool or cowardand hadn't sold out. But be assured, shewas a big part of Trump's victory. She should have supported the onlyprogressive candidate.
    There is only one waythat the people who consider themselves Democrats or left of Republican canrespond, and that is to excoriate, ban and purge ALL of the malignantly wrong,failed Democratic leaders. That should happen immediately at the bottom upgrass roots level, with an uprising that throws out all the state and localcommittee people who rigged their state primaries to favor Hillary or to favorthe House and Senate picks the corporate shills and power hungry fools at thetop of the DNC pecking order designated.
    It's good that Harry Reidand Barack are leaving. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is supposedly gone, but, Idon't trust that she's really gone. Chris Van Hollen, who DWS replaced as DNChead is now a senator. He should be banned from participation in leadership.Charles Schumer, be assured, was a major influencer in helping to rig theDemocratic primary. He is on track to become the senate minority leader. Thatshould not happen. The Black Caucus PAC leaders who lied and distorted to supportHillary-- they should lose all influence and power in the actual Black Caucus.Most of the Progressive Caucus members in the House should be voted out ofoffice, except for the few who supported Bernie.
    Of course, theseincompetent, politically malpracticing losers will blame the people who weretoo disgusted to vote for Hillary-- Berners, Millennials, people with theintegrity to refuse to vote for a lesserevil, lying, corrupt candidate hated by more than any Democratic candidate inmodern history.
    The real blame for the#DemDisaster should be laid on the DNC and the rabid Hillary supporters whowere in total denial that a profoundly flawed, lying, corrupt, hated candidatecould somehow win.
    Hillbots will blameBerners who voted 3rd party for her loss No! Your Awful judgment gave Trump theWhite House"""This was an election where people voted AGAINST a candidate.Hillary was more hated than Trump The DNC should have known. No. I'm sure theyknew and went ahead anyway. They read the pulse of America so badly that theyarrogantly, Top Down inflicted Hillary on the Democratic party.
    Joe Scarborough says,"this morning that this is not a morning for the Republican establishment tocelebrate. This is a morning that the Republican establishment has been smashedinto a million pieces." If that's true then the Democratic establishment shouldbe smashed into a billion pieces.
    Bottom line--
    DNC and media Demleadership should be banned and purged, starting from the bottom up, or itwon't happen. Begin by running out the local committee people who did all theycould to prevent fair, open elections in the primaries. Don't buy theirinevitable excuses, that it was the Russian hackers faults or the fault of theless than one percent of people who voted for Jill Stein. This was an electionlost by the DNC.
    2- MSNBC & CNN handedthe election to Trump by steamrolling over Sanders, setting up Clinton for herinevitable fall. Start watching the alternative TV shows and readingnews websites which never bought the DNC propaganda.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  4. #24

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    Defying the Politics of Fear

    Posted on Nov 6, 2016

    By Chris Hedges

    Voting one’s conscience is crucial for a civic life grounded in courage. (Eric Gay / AP)

    Chris Hedges gave this talk Saturday evening at a rally in Philadelphia for Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein and her running mate, Ajamu Baraka. Watch Hedges’ full speech on our YouTube channel.
    No social or revolutionary movement succeeds without a core of people who will not betray their vision and their principles. They are the building blocks of social change. They are our only hope for a viable socialism. They are willing to spend their lives as political outcasts. They are willing to endure repression. They will not sell out the oppressed and the poor. They know that you stand with allof the oppressed—people of color in our prisons and marginal communities, the poor, unemployed workers, our LGBT community, undocumented workers, the mentally ill and the Palestinians, Iraqis and Afghans whom we terrorize and murder—or you stand withnone of the oppressed. They know when you fight for the oppressed you get treated like the oppressed. They know this is the cost of the moral life, a life that is not abandoned even if means you are destined to spend generations wandering in the wilderness, even if you are destined to fail.
    I was in East Germany, Czechoslovakia and Romania in 1989 during the revolutions, or in the case of Romania an interparty putsch. These revolutions were spontaneous outbursts by an enraged population that had had enough of communist repression, mismanagement and corruption. No one, from the dissidents themselves to the ruling communist parties, anticipated these revolts. They erupted, as all revolutions do, from tinder that had been waiting years for a spark.
    These revolutions were led by a handful of dissidents who until the fall of 1989 were marginal and dismissed by the state as inconsequential until it was too late. The state periodically sent state security to harass them. It often ignored them. I am not even sure you could call these dissidents an opposition. They were profoundly isolated within their own societies. The state media denied them a voice. They had no legal status and were locked out of the political system. They were blacklisted. They struggled to make a living. But when the breaking point in Eastern Europe came, when the ruling communist ideology lost all credibility, there was no question in the minds of the public about whom they could trust. The demonstrators that poured into the streets of East Berlin and Prague were aware of who would sell them out and who would not. They trusted those, such as Václav Havel, who had dedicated their lives to fighting for open society, those who had been willing to be condemned as nonpersons and go to jail for their defiance.
    Our only chance to overthrow corporate power comes from those who will not surrender to it, who will hold fast to the causes of the oppressed no matter what the price, who are willing to be dismissed and reviled by a bankrupt liberal establishment, who have found within themselves the courage to say no, to refuse to cooperate. The most important issue in this election does not revolve around the personal traits of Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. It revolves around the destructive dynamic of unfettered and unregulated global capitalism, the crimes of imperialism and the security and surveillance apparatus. These forces are where real power lies. Trump and Clinton will do nothing to restrict them.
    It is up to us to resist. We must refuse to be complicit, even in the act of voting, with the fossil fuel industry’s savaging of our ecosystem, endless wars, oppression of the poor, including the one in five children in this country who is hungry, the evisceration of constitutional rights and civil liberties, the cruel and inhumane system of mass incarceration and the state-sponsored execution of unarmed poor people of color in our marginal communities.
    Julien Benda reminds us that we can serve two sets of principles. Privilege and power or justice and truth. The more we make compromises with those who serve privilege and power the more we diminish the capacity for justice and truth. Our strength comes from our steadfastness to justice and truth, a steadfastness that accepts that the corporate forces arrayed against us may crush us, but that the more we make compromises with those whose ends are privilege and power the more we diminish our capacity to effect change.
    Karl Popper in “The Open Society and Its Enemies” writes that the question is not how do you get good people to rule. Popper says this is the wrong question. Most people attracted to power, he writes, have “rarely been above average, either morally or intellectually, and often [have been] below it.” The question is how do we build forces to restrict the despotism of the powerful. There is a moment in Henry Kissinger’s memoirs—do not buy the book—when Nixon and Kissinger are looking out at tens of thousands of anti-war protesters who have surrounded the White House. Nixon had placed empty city buses in front of the White House to keep the protesters back. He worried out loud that the crowd would break through the barricades and get him and Kissinger. And that is exactly where we want people in power to be. This is why, although he was not a liberal, Nixon was our last liberal president. He was scared of movements. And if we cannot make the elites scared of us we will fail.
    The rise of Donald Trump is the product of the disenchantment, despair and anger caused by neoliberalism and the collapse of institutions that once offered a counterweight to the powerful. Trump gives vent to the legitimate rage and betrayal of the white underclass and working poor. His right-wing populism, which will grow in virulence and sophistication under a Clinton presidency, mirrors the right-wing populism rippling across much of Europe including Poland, Hungary, France and Great Britain. If Clinton wins, Trump becomes the dress rehearsal for fascism.

    A bankrupt liberal class, as was true in Yugoslavia when I covered the war and as was true in Weimar Germany, is the great enabler of fascism. Liberals, in the name of the practical, refuse to challenge parties that betray workingmen and –women. They surrender their values for political expediency. Our [failure] to build a counterweight to the Democratic Party after it abandoned the working class with the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1994 was our gravest mistake.
    Hillary Clinton embodies the detested neoliberal establishment. She can barely fend off one of the most imbecilic and narcissistic candidates in American history. Matched against a demagogue with brains and political skill, she would lose. If we do not defy the neoliberal order, championed by Clinton and the Democratic Party elites, we ensure the conditions for a terrifying right-wing backlash, one that will use harsh and violent mechanisms to crush the little political space we have left.
    The tactic of strategic voting begs the question “Strategic for whom?” Our money-drenched, heavily managed elections are little more than totalitarian plebiscites to give a veneer of legitimacy to corporate power. As long as we signal that we are not a threat to the established order, as long as we participate in this charade, the neoliberal assault will continue towards its frightening and inevitable conclusion.
    Alexis de Tocqueville correctly saw that when citizens can no longer participate in a meaningful way in political life, political populism is replaced by a cultural populism of sameness, resentment and mindless patriotism and by a form of anti-politics he called “democratic despotism.” The language and rituals of democracy are used to mask a political system based on the unchallenged supremacy of corporate power, one the political philosopher Sheldon Wolin calls “inverted totalitarianism.”
    We must build structures of open defiance to the corporate state. It may take as long as a decade for us to effectively confront corporate power. But without a potent counterweight to the neoliberal order we will be steadily disempowered. Every action we take, every word we utter must make it clear that we refuse to participate in our own enslavement and destruction. The rapid disintegration of the ecosystem means resistance cannot be delayed.
    Our success will be determined not by the number of votes we get in this or any other election but by our ability to stand unequivocally with the oppressed. The enemies of freedom throughout history have always charged its defenders with subversion. The enemies of freedom have often convinced large parts of a captive population to parrot back mind-numbing clichés to justify their rule. Resistance to corporate power will require fortitude, an ability to march to the beat of our own drum.
    No revolutionary abandons, no matter what the cost, those he or she defends. We cannot betray those murdered by police in our marginal communities. We cannot betray the courageous dissidents—Julian Assange, Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden and the great revolutionary Mumia Abu-Jamal. They have not betrayed us. We cannot betray the dissidents in North Dakota who are defying a fossil fuel industry that is orchestrating the sixth great mass extinction, melting the polar ice caps and raising carbon emissions to over 400 parts per million. We cannot betray the 2.3 million men and women locked in cages across this nation for years and decades. We cannot betray the Palestinians. We cannot betray the Iraqis and Afghans whose lives we have destroyed by state terror. If we betray them we betray ourselves.
    We cannot betray the ideal of a popular democracy by pretending this contrived political theater is free or fair or democratic. We cannot play their game. We cannot play by their rules. Our job is not to accommodate the corporate state. Our job is to destroy it. “We think we are the doctors,” Alexander Herzen told anarchists of another era. “We are the disease.”
    The state seeks to control us through fear, propaganda, wholesale surveillance and violence. [This] is the only form of social control it has left. The lie of neoliberalism has been exposed. Its credibility has imploded. The moment we cease being afraid, the moment we use our collective strength as I saw in Eastern Europe in 1989 to make the rulers afraid of us, is the moment of the system’s downfall.
    Go into the voting booth on Tuesday. Do not be afraid. Vote with your conscience. Vote Green. If we win 5 percent we win. Five percent becomes the building block for the years ahead. A decade ago Syriza, the ruling party in Greece, was polling 4 percent. And after you vote, join some movement, some protest, some disruption, Black Lives Matter, the boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign against Israel, an anti-fracking demonstration. Courage is contagious. Revolutions begin, as I saw in East Germany, with a few Lutheran clergy holding candles as they marched through the streets of Leipzig in East Germany. It ends with half a million people protesting in East Berlin, the defection of the police and the army to the side of the protesters and the collapse of the Stasi state. But revolutions only happen when a few dissidents decide they will no longer cooperate, when they affirm what we must all affirm, when, as Havel said, they choose to live in truth.
    We may not succeed. So be it. At least those who come after us, and I speak as a father, will say we tried. The corporate forces that have us in their death grip will destroy our lives. They will destroy the lives of my children. They will destroy the lives of your children. They will destroy the ecosystem that makes life possible. We owe it to those who come after us not to be complicit in this evil. We owe it to them to refuse to be good Germans. I do not, in the end, fight fascists because I will win. I fight fascists because they are fascists.



    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

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    It's all over now, baby blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    Bob Kall's analysis
    The combined machinationsof the DNC, Superdelegates and the Hillary Clinton campaign have set backDemocratic and progressive progress by 20 or more years. This article exploresthe damage done and who to blame.
    Let's start with ascreaming reality. All the polls showed that Bernie would have done far betterthan Hillary in the general election.

    So?

    What does that have to do with Hillary getting 16.9 million votes versus Bernie's 13.2?

    What did the Super Delegates have to do with that?


    Bernie Sanders would have won. He wouldhave won big and his coat-tails would havecarried Russ Feingold and probably many other senate and house candidates.

    Any Democrat would have beaten Trump.

    But only one Democrat was subject to non-stop investigation and the interference of Comey/Assange/Putin/cable-news.


    There are a number oftargets for blame. But before we talk about who to blame, l let's talk aboutwhat the targets of blame should be blamed for:
    1-rigging the Democraticprimary or allowing it to happen-- that would be rigging by the DNC, rigging bycollusion of the DNC, the Clinton Campaign and the MSM, rigging by localDemocratic committee people and other leaders who obstructed fair and openprimaries and problems with primary voting. Repeat studies have shown that eventhe vote counting was rigged for some of the primaries.

    I'd like to see more than the accusation.

    What studies?

    Did Hillary steal almost 4 million votes?

    Where?

    How?


    2-Loss of the Senate: ATop Down disaster-- the DNC leadership, with Obama rigged many state primaryelections for senate and house Democratic candidates-- designating losers basedon the criteria that they would be obsequious to the DNC.

    Like who?

    Who did the DNC rig a Senate nomination for?


    3-Loss of the House. SameTop Down rigging problem. I believe that Bernie Sanders could have won theelection big, with huge coat-tails that could have carried many house races. Millennialsand independents who stayed home would have come out to vote, to engage inGOTV.

    True. That point has already been made. But show where Hillary stole 4 million votes, please.

    Let's review. Clinton and Bernie tied in Iowa -- first caucus up -- and the next week Bernie won New Hampshire primary big.

    He needed to win Nevada after that but he got clobbered there, lost by six points. Then he got killed in South Carolina and all the Southern "Super Tuesday" states and could never catch up.

    He put out a beautiful ad based on Paul Simon's "America" but he left it so full of white folks it was a turn off to minorities.

    4-Loss of the Scaliareplacement seat on the Supreme Court and who knows how many more.

    Check.

    5-Loss of voters whoshifted from Democrat or left leaning independent to become Trump Supporters.

    Check. A VP pick of Warren or Sanders would have avoided this. Kaine was a big mistake.

    6-Corruption of themainstream media-- allowing and encouraging supposedly impartial media people tobecome flaming shills.

    The MSM gave Trump nothing but free air time and never called him out on his lies.

    7-Corruption of thejustice system-- the DOJ and the USA's intelligence agencies.

    James Comey committed treason. Check.

    8-rigging of the electionsystem. The Democrats were out-rigged. They should have learned up electionsover the last eight years and they didn't
    Now, let's talk aboutwho's to blame. I'm sure that the rabid Hillbots-- the people who were thenastiest attackers of Bernie Sanders and his supporters, will blame BernieSanders and his supporters, especially the tiny fraction who supported JillStein or who stayed home.

    No, the blame goes on the treasonous, mainstream news media and the foreign and domestic actors who fed into Clinton Fatigue to the point where the only way to stop hearing about Hillary's e-mails was to vote Trump.


    Sorry dears, but you were either so intoxicated thatyou were going to elect a first female president or you just bought the propaganda that Hillary was the "most experiencedpresidential candidate ever" nonsense.

    No, I went for the Donald Trump is an emotionally deformed neo-Nazi bit.

    Either way, you ignoredthe reality that she is a toxically, morbidly flawed, dishonest, corrupt,historically despised candidate.

    Because she got e-mails!

    Criminalizing the selling of access is a joke since all American politicians and media figures sell access.

    The media spent 18 months hammering her over nothing.

    And they didn't even catch the one egregious move revealed in the Podesta dump -- the Clintons sold access to Dow Chemical.

    But where was the quid pro quo?

    Where was any quid pro quo?


    You deluded yourselves to believe that becauseshe'd been Secretary of State she had historic experience. The problem is, themajority of the people of America saw through her experience claims andbelieved what Bernie said, that her experience was bad experience, includingher voting for the Iraq war.

    And the MSM allowed Trump to flat out lie unchallenged for months about his support for the Iraq War while hammering Hillary over the e-mails.

    So, first to blame arethe Uber-Hillary supporters. They could have been awake and smart enough to,from the grass roots, bottom up, reject the DNC's massive selling of Hillary.

    Please point out this "massive selling" in the early caucus/primary states of Nevada and South Carolina.

    This is blaming the victim.



    But next, and maybe evenmore, the DNC and the leadership of the Democratic party are to blame,collaborating with the mainstream media, particularly MSNBC and CNN, forrigging the primary and keeping the candidate who would have won by pullingindependents-- Bernie Sanders.

    They served up a big fat juicy issue -- but Bernie wouldn't go there on the "damn e-mails."


    Start with the DNCleadership and the vast majority of Democratic power holders-- all theSuperdelegates who committed to Hillary before Bernie Sanders was even in therace.

    And these super delegates caused Bernie to lose Nevada and South Carolina? He had the momentum -- then he stalled and never recovered.

    Some were bought by the Clinton foundation. Some were bought bycorporations and billionaires. A small few were fools and cowards. GiveElizabeth Warren that small benefit of the doubt-- that she was a fool or cowardand hadn't sold out. But be assured, shewas a big part of Trump's victory. She should have supported the onlyprogressive candidate.

    And she was going to get 4 million blacks and Hispanics to vote for Bernie?

    Try again.


    There is only one waythat the people who consider themselves Democrats or left of Republican canrespond, and that is to excoriate, ban and purge ALL of the malignantly wrong,failed Democratic leaders.

    Now we're talking!

    You bet.

    Clinton screwed up, put herself in a position to be under-mined with her ham-handed e-mail explanations (I mean seriously, she screwed the pooch under pressure and gave the Republicans a chance to rig a winnable election) and we need to get these corporate Dems OUT!


    That should happen immediately at the bottom upgrass roots level, with an uprising that throws out all the state and localcommittee people who rigged their state primaries to favor Hillary

    How and where did that occur?

    Specifics, please.


    or to favorthe House and Senate picks the corporate shills and power hungry fools at thetop of the DNC pecking order designated.

    It's good that Harry Reidand Barack are leaving. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is supposedly gone, but, Idon't trust that she's really gone. Chris Van Hollen, who DWS replaced as DNChead is now a senator. He should be banned from participation in leadership.Charles Schumer, be assured, was a major influencer in helping to rig theDemocratic primary.

    Don't care for Shumer myself but please point out what primary was rigged and how.

    He is on track to become the senate minority leader. Thatshould not happen. The Black Caucus PAC leaders who lied and distorted to supportHillary-- they should lose all influence and power in the actual Black Caucus.Most of the Progressive Caucus members in the House should be voted out ofoffice, except for the few who supported Bernie.

    We need more and better Democrats, agreed.

    Of course, theseincompetent, politically malpracticing losers will blame the people who weretoo disgusted to vote for Hillary-- Berners, Millennials, people with theintegrity to refuse to vote for a lesserevil, lying, corrupt candidate hated by more than any Democratic candidate inmodern history.

    Let's see -- we get to see all her e-mails, all of Huma's e-mails, all of Podesta's e-mails, all the DNC e-mails, drafts of her Goldman speeches, and the FBI notes on the email investigation.

    What have you got?

    Calling Bernie a doofus and charging Dow Chemical a shit-load for a sit down.

    Wow...if peddling access like that were an actual crime all American politicians and media figures would be in jail.


    If criminalizing politics is your thing -- be even handed about it.


    The real blame for the#DemDisaster should be laid on the DNC and the rabid Hillary supporters whowere in total denial that a profoundly flawed, lying, corrupt, hated candidatecould somehow win.

    Hated because...e-mails!

    The American people were battered with this exact same propaganda for a year and a half and the only way the beating could stop was to vote Trump.


    Hillbots will blameBerners who voted 3rd party for her loss No! Your Awful judgment gave Trump theWhite House"""This was an election where people voted AGAINST a candidate.Hillary was more hated than Trump The DNC should have known.

    What were they going to do about Hillary being the subject of a witch hunt?

    Tell her not to run because...e-mails?


    No. I'm sure theyknew and went ahead anyway. They read the pulse of America so badly that theyarrogantly, Top Down inflicted Hillary on the Democratic party.

    Again, point to one state where the DNC made a shred of difference.

    Just one.


    Joe Scarborough says,"this morning that this is not a morning for the Republican establishment tocelebrate. This is a morning that the Republican establishment has been smashedinto a million pieces." If that's true then the Democratic establishment shouldbe smashed into a billion pieces.
    Bottom line--

    Morning Joe is a piece of shit and his analysis is garbage.

    The Republican establishment will give Trump something ceremonial to do then takeover what will pass for governing.


    DNC and media Demleadership should be banned and purged, starting from the bottom up, or itwon't happen. Begin by running out the local committee people who did all theycould to prevent fair, open elections in the primaries.

    What primary wasn't open and fair, again?

    More than contenless accusations, please.


    Don't buy theirinevitable excuses, that it was the Russian hackers faults or the fault of theless than one percent of people who voted for Jill Stein. This was an electionlost by the DNC.
    2- MSNBC & CNN handedthe election to Trump by steamrolling over Sanders,

    No, they handed him an issue on a silver platter and he was too decent a man to take advantage.

    The corporate media would have loved to run a Republican against a socialist!


    setting up Clinton for herinevitable fall. Start watching the alternative TV shows and readingnews websites which never bought the DNC propaganda.

    Or regurgitate Dominionist attacks on Clinton disguised as left analysis.
    Last edited by Cliff Varnell; 11-09-2016 at 07:27 PM.

  6. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Varnell View Post

    ...just cancelled my cable TV service -- boycott CNN/MSNBC/Fox!!
    Definitely a good move. Any time.
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

  7. #27

    Default

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-right/507155/
    Downplaying the racist views of Trump supporters is an evasion of the facts.



    ...conservatives have insisted that economic distress does not cause jihadist terror. The real source, they insist, is Islamic culture. For decades, they’ve argued that economic distress does not cause unwed pregnancy and drug addiction among African Americans. The real explanation lies with inner city black culture. Given those precedents, you would think conservatives would embrace a cultural rather than economic explanation for Trump’s appeal, especially when the evidence points so strongly in that direction. But when it’s whites acting badly, not blacks or Muslims, suddenly economic distress matters a great deal. Of course, some Trump supporters have “legitimate concerns” about their economic circumstances. But these concerns don’t distinguish them from other Americans. In fact, among voters who earn less than $50,000, Clinton won handily. Trump won among those who make more than $250,000. What differentiates Trump’s supporters is their resentment toward immigrants, Muslims, African Americans and feminists—anyone who challenges the hierarchies that reigned back when America was great.
    Should Americans who loathe Trump talk to his supporters about their concerns and, where possible, find areas of common purpose? Sure. But I thought conservatives like Erickson favored blunt truths over dishonest kumbaya. The blunt truth is that most Trump supporters hold bigoted views.....
    So far, denial of the gravest crisis to confront "the Union" since Lee's army marched into Pennsylvania in June, 1863.

    Are we up to performing the duty to confront the challenge and put it down? Do we prudently post such questions publicly under our own names, anymore?
    Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Scully View Post
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-right/507155/
    Downplaying the racist views of Trump supporters is an evasion of the facts.



    ...conservatives have insisted that economic distress does not cause jihadist terror. The real source, they insist, is Islamic culture. For decades, they’ve argued that economic distress does not cause unwed pregnancy and drug addiction among African Americans. The real explanation lies with inner city black culture. Given those precedents, you would think conservatives would embrace a cultural rather than economic explanation for Trump’s appeal, especially when the evidence points so strongly in that direction. But when it’s whites acting badly, not blacks or Muslims, suddenly economic distress matters a great deal. Of course, some Trump supporters have “legitimate concerns” about their economic circumstances. But these concerns don’t distinguish them from other Americans. In fact, among voters who earn less than $50,000, Clinton won handily. Trump won among those who make more than $250,000. What differentiates Trump’s supporters is their resentment toward immigrants, Muslims, African Americans and feminists—anyone who challenges the hierarchies that reigned back when America was great.
    Should Americans who loathe Trump talk to his supporters about their concerns and, where possible, find areas of common purpose? Sure. But I thought conservatives like Erickson favored blunt truths over dishonest kumbaya. The blunt truth is that most Trump supporters hold bigoted views.....
    So far, denial of the gravest crisis to confront "the Union" since Lee's army marched into Pennsylvania in June, 1863.

    Are we up to performing the duty to confront the challenge and put it down? Do we prudently post such questions publicly under our own names, anymore?

    Oh hell yes!

    Dear Mister Trump the soon to be indicted chump: remember N. Kidd Sylene?

    Sure ya do. The World's Most Hated People card set, Chapter 6 -- Donald Trump.

    Hit New York like a ton of bricks Summer of '92.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-WORLD-S-...-/222049664760

    The name is Varnell. Cliff Varnell.

  9. Default

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-WORLD-S-...-/222049664760

    Also in the set -- David Duke, Ted Nugent, Rush Limbaugh.

    Way to come thru for me, boys! Fuck'n pukes...

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magda Hassan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff Varnell View Post

    ...just cancelled my cable TV service -- boycott CNN/MSNBC/Fox!!
    Definitely a good move. Any time.
    Magda, I honestly have to blame myself for Donald Trump.

    I binge watched cable news from mid June '15 to the end of April '16.

    By then Mister Trump was NOT funny.

    But I was an avid consumer of the product and thus bear due measure of responsibility.

    The only thing that kept me sane the last couple of months was the 60's covers thread!

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