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Thread: Russian Military Plane Crashes After Take Off in Sochi

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Knoble View Post
    This only seems to be reluctance to admit that a military plane leaving from a military area of an airfield might have had a security breech. I'm sure if they are forced to by the circumstances, they will find a face-saving way to admit to this and deal with it. The US and other countries often do the same when a military flight is involved.
    Going back to the shooting down of MH17 over the DNR by ukrops, Russia was very cautious about how it was officially handled. For example, the Kremlin turned over the flight data recorder without first examining it.

    Even if Russia had determined that an outside party sabotaged the airplane, they would never admit it and never accuse the third party unless it was an easily bombed non-state entity. Therefore, I tend to discount the RT article even though it could very well be true. Furthermore, the RT article gives a wide variety of causes of the crash and seems at pains to hurriedly rule out terrorism. But why?
    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

  2. #12

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    One of the flight recorders has been found - don't know which one...one usually captures voice/sound in cockpit and most basic data; the other the detailed flight data.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  3. #13

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    Can't vouch for the source or information but interesting. Would have been an even bigger coup if they had managed to get these guys as well. Googlish translation.

    IMPORTANT UPDATE: The current Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, and first Deputy Defence Minister General Valery Gerasimov and GRU (Russian military intelligence agency) chief General Igor Korobov were supposed to join Alexandrov Ensemble artists, journalists and soldiers, but their trip was canceled at the last moment. Both stayed in St. Petersburg.

    Rescuers continue to search for the Tu-154 passenger in the Black Sea, while in the Russian Defense Ministry assured that all dead. Meanwhile, there are those who have had to fly on this flight, but as luck would have stayed on the ground.
    Thus, according to some reports, the head of the General Staff General Valery Gerasimov and GRU chief General Igor Korobov had to join Alexandrov Ensemble artists, journalists and soldiers, but their trip was canceled. Both remained in St. Petersburg.

    In addition, it has not confirmed the fact of the death of the chief of General Vladimir Ivanovsky military police. According to relatives, he could also cancel the flight and thus be saved.
    1 We also know that the 93rd person from the list of those on board did not pass customs and also stayed on the ground . They became members of the ensemble Alexandrov Roman Valuto. In addition, the board could be the People's Artist of the USSR Iosif Kobzon - guide his name was on tour together
    Подробнее: Крушение Ту-154: Чудом остались живы начальники Генштаба России и ГРУ http://tsargrad.tv/news/2016/12/25/krushenie-tu-154-chudom-ostalis-zhivy-nachalniki-genshtaba-rossii-i-gru


    http://tsargrad.tv/news/2016/12/25/k...a-rossii-i-gru
    "I think it would be a good idea." Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization.

    The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.
    Karl Marx.

    "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies, 1963, replied Ms Rice Davies when the prosecuting counsel pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magda Hassan View Post
    Can't vouch for the source or information but interesting. Would have been an even bigger coup if they had managed to get these guys as well. Googlish translation.

    IMPORTANT UPDATE: The current Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, and first Deputy Defence Minister General Valery Gerasimov and GRU (Russian military intelligence agency) chief General Igor Korobov were supposed to join Alexandrov Ensemble artists, journalists and soldiers, but their trip was canceled at the last moment. Both stayed in St. Petersburg.

    Rescuers continue to search for the Tu-154 passenger in the Black Sea, while in the Russian Defense Ministry assured that all dead. Meanwhile, there are those who have had to fly on this flight, but as luck would have stayed on the ground.
    Thus, according to some reports, the head of the General Staff General Valery Gerasimov and GRU chief General Igor Korobov had to join Alexandrov Ensemble artists, journalists and soldiers, but their trip was canceled. Both remained in St. Petersburg.

    In addition, it has not confirmed the fact of the death of the chief of General Vladimir Ivanovsky military police. According to relatives, he could also cancel the flight and thus be saved.
    1 We also know that the 93rd person from the list of those on board did not pass customs and also stayed on the ground . They became members of the ensemble Alexandrov Roman Valuto. In addition, the board could be the People's Artist of the USSR Iosif Kobzon - guide his name was on tour together
    Подробнее: Крушение Ту-154: Чудом остались живы начальники Генштаба России и ГРУ http://tsargrad.tv/news/2016/12/25/krushenie-tu-154-chudom-ostalis-zhivy-nachalniki-genshtaba-rossii-i-gru


    http://tsargrad.tv/news/2016/12/25/k...a-rossii-i-gru

    Interesting, but doesn't make any sense. This was only a music mission to entertain the troops for the Holidays.....so what would a General and/or GRU guy have to gain? I can see nothing - and lots to loose. If true, it is suspicious - but the motive escapes me entirely....unless they were double-agents. In that case, they are good as dead. The fact they remained [if true] in St. Petersburg doesn't sound like they are guilty. If they were, they'd be out of Russia by now.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  5. #15

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    The second of two flight recorders was found...so the full information should soon be available. They have already listened to the last words of the pilots and one is screaming about "the fucking flaps [ailerons]!".....so they were either off, or in an absolutely wrong position for flight. This does not rule out foul play, but it doesn't seem to explain the large debris field. There may have been subsequent events to the plane. Ailerons control the movement of the plane and without them you can't control the plane for long.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    The second of two flight recorders was found...so the full information should soon be available. They have already listened to the last words of the pilots and one is screaming about "the fucking flaps [ailerons]!".....so they were either off, or in an absolutely wrong position for flight. This does not rule out foul play, but it doesn't seem to explain the large debris field. There may have been subsequent events to the plane. Ailerons control the movement of the plane and without them you can't control the plane for long.
    This reminds me of an Alaska Airlines crash caused by the failure of a part called a "jack screw" in the tail assembly which made the plane uncontrollable. Alaska Air got in all kinds of trouble for delaying maintenance and the FAA cooperating.

    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

  7. Default

    I'm not an aviation expert, but would there be a bright flash in the sky before impact if there was a loss of flap control?
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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Knoble View Post
    I'm not an aviation expert, but would there be a bright flash in the sky before impact if there was a loss of flap control?
    The flash video is not confirmed to be at the time and place of the flight. I don't think it good to speculate too much, but to wait for real information best it can be ascertained. Flaps do not generally fail. There are many of them and each is operated by separate motors and hydraulic systems. For many or all of them to fail and cripple the craft would take something other to damage them or their controls. Again, the wide debris field is not consistent with only problems with the flaps. Something else happened before and perhaps after, if indeed the flaps failed. If they released the last statement of the pilots so quickly [not usually done anywhere], then I think we can expect quick disclosure of what else they find. One of the recorders will have a second to second status of all main systems, as well as position and attitude/speed/condition of the plane.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

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