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Thread: Holmes' Testimony

  1. Default Dallas County Sheriff's-Deputy John Wiseman vs Roy Truly's "Truth"

    COUNTY OF DALLAS
    SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
    SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
    Name of Compainant
    Assassination Of President Kennedy

    Offense
    John Wiseman, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.

    Date Nov 23, 1963
    I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallas when the President passed and the car went around the corner and a few more cars had passed when I heard a shot and I knew something had happened. I ran at once to the corner of Houston and Main Street and out into the street when the second and third shots ran out. I ran on across Houston Street, then across the park to where a policeman was having trouble with his motorcycle and I saw a man laying on the grass. This man laying on the grass said the shots came from the building and he was pointing to the old Sexton Building. I talked to Marilyn Sitzman, 202 S. Lancaster who said her boss, Abraham Zaprutes, RI 8 6071, had movies of the shooting. She said the shots came from that way and she pointed at the old Sexton Building. I ran at once to the Sexton Building and went in. I askes some woman how many doors lead out of the building and she said 4. I left the building and found some DPD patrolmen and we came back to the building. I ran up the stairs and the patrolman started trying to get more help to search the building. I went up the stairs to the 7th floor and started up into the attic and noticed that the door to the roof was locked on the inside with a gate type hook latch. I stopped and started back down the stairs taking a quick look on each floor. I met more officers on the 2nd floor and then in a few minutes the place had maybe 50 officers in it. A better search was started floor by floor. About the time we got started on the 5th floor, Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney found some spent hulls. An officer of the Dallas Police Department told us all to get on one side of the room and make one clean sweep of the entire floor to see if we could find the rifle. As we worked our way across the room which was filled with boxes, we got to the front stairway when Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boon said, "here is the gun". It was about 4 feet in front of me in the aisle in which I was working. Deputy Boone stayed at one end of the aisle where the gun was spotted and I stayed at the other end of the aisle so that nothing would be touched. Officer Day of the DPD Crime Lab came and took pictures of the gun in its hiding spot behind the boxes and then moved it from this spot. I then left the building and came back to the Sheriff's Office to talk with witnesses. A Mrs. Mary Moorman was in the office with a picture of the President getting shot.

    Again, without getting into specific details here, until such time someone dares to try to diminish deputy John "An Honest to Goodness Lawman" Wiseman's account with facts, I'll hold in reserve the accounts of three other individuals also responding to the scene that same afternoon, who actually went up to the 7th floor as well, even initially crawling into the same incredibly dark space in the attic, and their respective findings as well...findings that the lying tandem would have been aware of IF they were telling the genuine truth instead of Roy Truly's "truth"...

    Recap:

    Q: Where did Holmes place the actual encounter w/the wrongly accused?

    A:
    Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
    Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

    Q:Where did Marrion Baker actually encounter someone else other than the wrongly accused (Mr. Oswald, a scant 130lbs) ?

    A:
    "....I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

    s/ M. L. Baker
    SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
    /s/ Mary Rattan
    Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

    Q:What condition did Dallas County Deputy-Sheriff John Wiseman find in respect to access to the roof?
    A: I went up the stairs to the 7th floor and started up into the attic and noticed that the door to the roof was locked on the inside with a gate type hook latch.

    BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

    *Notes for future use: For now, don't share Judy Bonner's "Investigation of a Homicide" photo...Roy Truly may have been simply in a clumsy hurry...

    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

    For now, try to get around this challenge ---->
    Page not found.Please try again. If you're still having issues, please contact the National Archives Catalog team.8601 Adelphi Road
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    "A Lie Believed By Everybody Is Not The Truth"--unknown



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  2. Default ...reliable evidence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Ford View Post
    Mr. Trotter is a good and decent human being. I respect him as such, but simply disagree with him on some key issues in this case.

    In spite of the bold claim about presenting evidence, suggesting that Dallas County Sheriff Deputy John Wiseman wasn't right on the heels of the lying tandem (Baker & Roy Truly's adventures upon an otherwise LOCKED roof), the lack thereof equates to there is nothing to refute Deputy Wiseman in calling out the lying tandem for what they are...liars clinging desperately to a hastily contrived script concocted in order to FRAME an innocent party, the wrongly accused (Mr. Oswald).

    Without getting into specific details here, until such time someone dares to try to diminish deputy John "An Honest to Goodness Lawman" Wiseman's account, I'll hold in reserve the accounts of three other men in law enforcement that same afternoon--per their own statements--who also crawled into the same incredibly dark space in the attic and their respective findings as well.

    That said, moving along now, let's recap:

    Q: Where did Holmes place the encounter w/the wrongly accused?
    A: Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
    Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

    Q:That said, moving along now, let's recap Where did Marrion Baker really encounter someone other than the wrongly accused, some 165lbs...

    A: "....I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

    s/ M. L. Baker
    SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
    /s/ Mary Rattan
    Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

    Q:What condition did Dallas County Deputy-Sheriff John Wiseman find access to the roof?
    A: Locked.

    Am still puzzled over why Roy Truly was over in the sniper's nest BEFORE the authorities found key "evidence" ----->

    BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

    I have yet to find any reliable evidence that accused LoneGunman LeeOswald stated that he encountered Officer ML Baker and/or Superintendent RS Truly anywhere other than the 2nd floor lunchroom in the minutes after the DealyPlaza shooting of President JohnKennedy and Governor JohnConnally. Nor have I found any reliable evidence that Mr Baker and/or Mr Truly stated that they had encountered Mr Oswald on the "First floor. The front entrance to the first floor", in said time frame. And, I do not recall any eyewitness' testimony that disproves the 12:31/12:32pm CST occurrence of the 2nd floor encounter at the lunchroom.

    Deputy JW Wiseman's statement indicates that the roof access door was "locked" from the inside, using a hook latch. So, at least to me, the correct terminology would likely be that said access door was latched from the inside (7th floor).

    In all likelihood, as Superintendent RoyTruly was observing the situation on the 6th floor in the aftermath of the shots being fired at the Presidential Motorcade near the TSBD, he noticed the stacked boxes near an open window facing Elm St, and investigated the area.

    Larry
    StudentofAssassinationResearch


  3. Default Points to Ponder

    A few key points to ponder:

    (1) Besides Holmes' honest account of the encounter w/the wrongly accused happening @ quote, "The front entrance to the first floor", a couple other individuals--including Roy Truly (in his same day remarks void of a next day hastily contrived script) also initially places the wrongly accused on the First floor as well. The late Dallas News reporter, Kent Biffle (RIP) overheard the lying weasel tell Fritz he saw the wrongly accused on the first floor.

    Roy Truly's sighting of the wrongly accused down on the first floor was corroborated by Mr. Campbell (Ouchus), the Vice-President of the building (TSBD), who also saw the wrongly accused on the first floor as well. What makes Mr. Campbell's sighting significant is in his remarks he uses the plural form (We), meaning others alongside him as he entered also saw the wrongly accused on the first floor as well.

    Now, of course, with a next day hastily contrived script to fulfill to FRAME an innocent party, Baker's actual encounter on the stairway (with someone MUCH heavier than the wrongly accused) suddenly shifts 30' feet clear across the open floor over into a lunchroom (any lie will do, just nail down the fall-guy, so the country can move on before people know what really happened). Speaking of what really happened, note the word *Stampede in the following video (Why else would the general public need to stampede IF a lone gunman was really responsible? ----->

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyGzVQGgdqw

    (2) There are several more reports that call out the lying tandem's otherwise LOCKED roof exploits. Am choosing to hold on to these reports for future reference. These individuals were simply telling the truth without any idea that a lying tandem would ever be suggesting something to the contrary.

    (3) To date, without getting into specifics, I also have come across photos depicting the digital time upon the Hertz sign atop the TSBD, and in all of those telling photos, there is no trace of the lying tandem in any of those telling photos atop the roof, doing anything their respective testimonies say they did while up there upon an otherwise LOCKED roof. The only thing I haven't quite figured out yet is whether or not the roof adventures needed to be created to "buy some time" and for what *purpose ---->

    *BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.


    Research has borne out that the lying tandem initially skipped the 6th floor altogether in their respective testimonies (or, so they say, but this lying tandem say a lot of things).

    Funny not a single photo exists of the lying tandem actually entering the TSBD together.
    Not a single photo exists of the lying tandem actually up on the roof, not a single one (odd with all those cameras flashing that afternoon). But, I have several photos where the digital clock lines up w/their tall-tales about that otherwise LOCKED roof.

    BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

    How was that again, Roy Truly?

    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
    "A Lie Believed By Everybody Is Not The Truth"--unknown



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  4. Default ...a suspicioner...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Ford View Post
    A few key points to ponder:

    (1) Besides Holmes' honest account of the encounter w/the wrongly accused happening @ quote, "The front entrance to the first floor", a couple other individuals--including Roy Truly (in his same day remarks void of a next day hastily contrived script) also initially places the wrongly accused on the First floor as well. The late Dallas News reporter, Kent Biffle (RIP) overheard the lying weasel tell Fritz he saw the wrongly accused on the first floor.

    Roy Truly's sighting of the wrongly accused down on the first floor was corroborated by Mr. Campbell (Ouchus), the Vice-President of the building (TSBD), who also saw the wrongly accused on the first floor as well. What makes Mr. Campbell's sighting significant is in his remarks he uses the plural form (We), meaning others alongside him as he entered also saw the wrongly accused on the first floor as well.

    Now, of course, with a next day hastily contrived script to fulfill to FRAME an innocent party, Baker's actual encounter on the stairway (with someone MUCH heavier than the wrongly accused) suddenly shifts 30' feet clear across the open floor over into a lunchroom (any lie will do, just nail down the fall-guy, so the country can move on before people know what really happened). Speaking of what really happened, note the word *Stampede in the following video (Why else would the general public need to stampede IF a lone gunman was really responsible? ----->

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyGzVQGgdqw

    (2) There are several more reports that call out the lying tandem's otherwise LOCKED roof exploits. Am choosing to hold on to these reports for future reference. These individuals were simply telling the truth without any idea that a lying tandem would ever be suggesting something to the contrary.

    (3) To date, without getting into specifics, I also have come across photos depicting the digital time upon the Hertz sign atop the TSBD, and in all of those telling photos, there is no trace of the lying tandem in any of those telling photos atop the roof, doing anything their respective testimonies say they did while up there upon an otherwise LOCKED roof. The only thing I haven't quite figured out yet is whether or not the roof adventures needed to be created to "buy some time" and for what *purpose ---->

    *BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.


    Research has borne out that the lying tandem initially skipped the 6th floor altogether in their respective testimonies (or, so they say, but this lying tandem say a lot of things).

    Funny not a single photo exists of the lying tandem actually entering the TSBD together.
    Not a single photo exists of the lying tandem actually up on the roof, not a single one (odd with all those cameras flashing that afternoon). But, I have several photos where the digital clock lines up w/their tall-tales about that otherwise LOCKED roof.

    BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

    How was that again, Roy Truly?

    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

    Correct me if wrong, but I seem to recall reading something about HarryHolmes describing himself as trained as "a suspicioner". According to Thesaurus, a suspicioner is a doubter and/or a distruster. In any event, his "statement", per him, is what he thinks was said by LeeOswald during a questionable interrogation on 11/24/'63, shortly before Mr Oswald was shot and killed while in police custody. And, per Mr Holmes, he was relying on his notes that he made about three weeks after the 11/24/'63 interrogation of Mr Oswald. Whether Mr Holmes, or Kent Biffle, neither are speaking as eye witnesses, and very easily misunderstood, misremembered, or misplaced a statement and/or question.

    If the claim is that the encounter of DPD Officer ML Baker and TSBD Superintendent RS Truly with Mr Oswald occurred on "the first floor", Mr Ford needs to supply a link to any eyewitness' sworn statement/testimony that reliably indicates said encounter occurred, and at what time.

    It is well established that Mr Baker, escorted by Mr Truly, encountered Mr Oswald on the 2nd floor. As Mr Baker was following Mr Truly up the stairway, when he reached the 2nd floor, he scanned the area and saw someone, later identified as Mr Oswald, at the lunchroom and proceeded to investigate. And, while going up the stairway, Mr Truly noticed that Mr Baker was no longer following him, so he turned around to return to the 2nd floor. When there, he heard voices from the lunchroom, and went there and confirmed to Mr Baker that Mr Oswald was indeed an employee at the TSBD Building. The "Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter" occurred at 12:31pm/12:32pm CST , as per the reliable evidence. Accordingly, Mr Baker and Mr Truly most likely left the 2nd floor by the stairway after 12:32pm CST. And, likely entered the TSBD 7th floor no earlier than 12:35pm, and then climbed the steps/ladder to the "locked from the inside" (by hook latch) roof access door to the roof area. That being said, I have to wonder, as I wander, why anyone would expect anyone with a camera taking pictures, from an appropriate area, of the roof area above the 7th floor of the TSBD Building anywhere near 12:35pm CST on 11/22/'63?

    It has been posted that DCS Deputy John W Wiseman searched the TSBD Building "on the heels of Mr Baker and Mr Truly", but it appears to me that his own statement indicates it to be at least five minutes later. And, as well, his statement, along with the statement of DPD Motorcycle Officer Bobby W Hargis sufficiently indicates that Officer Hargis was the police officer he had seen having trouble with his motorcycle.

    As for Mr Truly's arrival at the 6th floor, southeast corner, as previously posted, quite likely as Building Superintendent, he noticed the open window and boxes stacked that restricted view, and went to investigate. In any event, although to me a non-issue, I do wonder, as I wander, as to what time it was, when sometime before he "learned that they had found either the rifle or spent shell cases".

    Links provided for review:

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm
    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/holmes2.htm
    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m1.htm
    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m2.htm
    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/truly1.htm
    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/truly2.htm
    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ../jfkinfo3/reports/wiseman.htm
    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/hscaharg.htm

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hargis.htm


    Last edited by LR Trotter; 01-21-2018 at 07:19 AM. Reason: ___correction___

    Larry
    StudentofAssassinationResearch


  5. Default Dallas Deputy-Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman

    Self-reminder: return here to insert genuine eyewitnesses who saw with their own eyes the wrongly accused down on the first floor during the immediate aftermath of the ambush upon a democratically elected representative of the people...

    In respect to Occhus Campbell's sighting of the wrongly accused; the Vice-President of the TSBD and his accompanying party, upon their return inside immediately sighted the wrongly accused, quote & thus his plural form, We saw Oswald on the first floor near a storage room. These are eyewitnesses directly on the scene during the immediate aftermath.

    In respect to Holmes, he knows precisely where the tandem actually encountered the wrongly accused, quote, First Floor -----> Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

    Moreover, he adds ----> quote, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved.He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit."

    Of course, after five months he--like so many other witnesses--simply saw which way the wind was blowing, and adjusted their sails, err, recollections accordingly.

    Well, you step aside for a bit fits the actions of an encounter on the first floor, with Roy Truly just behind Baker on the front entrance steps, quote, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men.

    Moving on, let's train our focus now upon the roof, where the lying tandem would have us believe they were able to somehow accomplish something that four other responding lawmen, and members of the Dallas Fire Station No. 3 couldn't.

    We begin w/this exchange ---->

    Mr. BELIN - In this time sequence you mentioned you were on the roof more than 5 minutes, that could be 25 or 30 or 10 or 15 or what?
    Mr. BAKER - This, to my recollection, it seemed like I shouldn't have stayed up there over 10 minutes anyway, if that long.
    Mr. BELIN - So you would say somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes?
    Mr. BAKER - I just ran around up there looking for something; I didn't find it and then we came on down.


    Taking Baker at his word, let’s do some basic math:

    90 seconds to reach the 2nd floor lunchroom (or so they say) =’s 12:32PM

    30 seconds to experience an exchange with the wrongly accused (or so they say) =’s 12:32:30 secs

    then the tandem crosses the floor to return to the stairway some 30 feet away, and begin climbing two flights per floor to reach the 5th floor. Let's pretend they didn't engage the 165lb man higher up, and even though Roy Truly is 56 years old, I’ll give the weasel a free pass and pretend he didn’t get winded from over exertion, and just say @ 30 secs per the three floors involved they arrived upon the 5th floor at 12:35PM

    The elevator ride up to the 7th floor puts them at 12:35:30 seconds.

    Their ability to teleport through an otherwise LOCKED roof puts them at 12:36PM.

    Note what Baker says about how long the tandem were upon an otherwise LOCKED roof ---->

    Mr. BAKER - This, to my recollection, it seemed like I shouldn't have stayed up there over 10 minutes anyway, if that long.

    Baker’s lie has many problems. Let’s just share a couple.

    1. Even if the lying tandem was able to borrow some magic from the magic-bullet, and teleport themselves magically through an otherwise LOCKED roof, it would have been long after 12:45PM before they begin their descent downward.

    2. However, several photographic images between 12:39PM—12:40PM of the roof & the digital clock upon the BIG Hertz sign do NOT demonstrate any of the actions the lying tandem claimed they were doing while up on the roof in their respective Warren Commission testimonies.

    3. Their biggest LIE was claiming they were upon the roof. Besides Deputy Sheriff John “An Honest To Goodness Lawman” Wiseman, who found access to the roof LOCKED, several other lawmen responding to the shooting also shed considerable doubt on anyone accessing that LOCKED roof. Here we have four (4) individuals telling the truth, and the lying tandem telling Roy Truly’s “truth”.

    Addendum (self-reminder) Hold Inspector J. Hubert Sawyer's testimony in reserve, until such time someone cares to challenge the above math. Inspector Sawyer's testimony is very telling in multiple instances.

    How was that again, Roy Truly?

    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

    Pleading the 5th Roy "I sink more than a few hole-in-ones whenever I golf alone" Truly...

    Tall-Tales R Us by Roy "I caught a whale of a BIG fish, but he got away...again" Truly...

    Addendum(2) hold off on posting about this challenge for the wannabe roofing tandem for now ---->


    Photo credit the late Mr. White (Jack) RIP sir.

    Judging from how high the above wall is, and the following testimony ----->

    Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof?
    Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down.

    The several photos I have--between 12:39PM --12:40PM do NOT line up with Truly's italic tale above with the digital time noted upon the BIG Hertz sign in the same sequence the lying tandem claim to be upon an otherwise LOCKED roof.

    What was Roy Truly really doing?, and why was he over in the sniper's nest ---->

    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Alan Ford; Yesterday at 06:21 PM.
    "A Lie Believed By Everybody Is Not The Truth"--unknown



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  6. Default The Joint Same Day Account While The Wrongly Accused Was Still ALIVE

    Hold in reserve here..will come back to this at a later date when time permits ----->

    EXHIBIT A:
    Joint report by FBI agents Bookhout & Hosty of 11/22 Oswald interrogation, dictated 11/23:
    Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building.

    and also begin to create a timeline for Roy Truly's adventures over in the sniper's nest ----->

    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
    "A Lie Believed By Everybody Is Not The Truth"--unknown



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