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Thread: Holmes' Testimony

  1. Default Time Is Essential

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Davidson View Post
    Baker appears in the Hughes film trailing the first blue impala convertible as it makes the turn onto Houston from Main St and travels a short distance before the film cuts.
    In the background at extant Z232,the front end of the first blue impala convertible aligns with the last wall hole, plotted from Zapruders LOS.

    At that point, it has traveled 96.5ft from the Main/Houston St corner.
    Baker in Hughes is actually trailing the 1st blue impala convertible by approx 5ft.
    The blue impala is 17.5ft in length.
    At Z232, Baker is approx 96.25ft - 17.5ft - 5ft = 73.75ft down Houston St.
    The average motorcade speed down Houston is 9.3mph

    At Z232, Baker is 81 frames until extant Z313 (4.42seconds) @ 13.671ft per sec (9.3mph) = 60.42ft
    At extantZ313, Baker is 134.17ft (73.75 + 60.42ft) down Houston St.
    Houston St. building corner to building corner = 200ft
    At extant Z313, Baker needs to travel 200 - 134.17ft= 65.83ft to hit the corner of Houston and Elm St.
    An assumption that he remained on the outside of the motorcade as he traveled to his final parking spot is being made, as I have never heard of him weaving between the motorcade to get to his parking spot.
    This assumption puts his Elm St radius travel at a distance of 87.5 ft.
    His total distance traveled from extant Z313 = 65.83 + 87.5 = 153.33ft.
    153.33ft/13.671ft per sec (9.3mph) = 11.21 seconds

    Mr. BELIN - All right.
    After the third shot, then, what did you do?

    Mr. BAKER - Well, I revved that motorcycle up and I went down to the corner which would be approximately 180 to 200 feet from the point where we had first stated, you know, that we heard the shots.
    Mr. BELIN - What distance did you state? What we did on Friday afternoon, we paced off from the point you thought you heard the first shot to the point at which you parked the motorcycle, and this paced off to how much?
    Mr. BAKER - From 180 to 200 feet.
    Mr. BELIN - That is where you parked the motorcycle?

    After a shot at extant z232, Baker would have been approx 214ft from his parking spot.
    After a shot at extant z313, Baker would have been approx 153.3ft from his parking spot.

    First, a fine detailed assessment there, Mr. Davidson, appreciate your efforts and contribution. A quick question for clarification sake, Does the research community know how many seconds it took Marrion--from his parked motorcycle--to enter the TSBD? (personally, don't think he enters at all until a few minutes later, but for this examination let's just all agree he did enter immediately).

    For this exercise, I'd like to add that time figure to the 11.21 seconds (so will double back here next week to reengage).

    Meanwhile, with an emphasis upon keeping your assessment as neutral as possible, I'm only interested in the truth whether it be mine or anyone else's, so feel free to be as objective and fair as you have been thus far. That said, in respect to total time, I would like for you to consider the following elements as well:

    *Truly & Baker's tangling their feet inside the front entrance and bumping into one another, backing up and regrouping... (elapsed time ='s __?__)

    *the distance from there to the backstairs (have read somewhere it was 115', but am open to specifics...so covering that distance at a, quote, trot--Baker's words--elapsed time ='s __?__)

    *Roy Truly's verbal exchange with TSBD employee Eddie Piper, and his subsequent yell 2X up the elevator shaft for an elevator, before deciding to take the stairs instead--elapsed time ='s __?___)

    This is a start if you have time on your hands, before we develop this any further to account for the 30 sec-engagement (or so Roy Truly says) w/the wrongly accused. From there I'd like to factor in the time it would take for the tandem to cover three additional floors via the backstairs, before entering the East elevator on the 5th floor...

    Last question, To date--Does anyone in the research community have an actual photo of Marrion Baker's parked motorcycle in the actual position he claims he parked it?
    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people" -- President John Fitzgerald Kennedy




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  2. Default ...a second or so here, and a second or so there...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Davidson View Post
    Baker appears in the Hughes film trailing the first blue impala convertible as it makes the turn onto Houston from Main St and travels a short distance before the film cuts.
    In the background at extant Z232,the front end of the first blue impala convertible aligns with the last wall hole, plotted from Zapruders LOS.

    At that point, it has traveled 96.5ft from the Main/Houston St corner.
    Baker in Hughes is actually trailing the 1st blue impala convertible by approx 5ft.
    The blue impala is 17.5ft in length.
    At Z232, Baker is approx 96.25ft - 17.5ft - 5ft = 73.75ft down Houston St.
    The average motorcade speed down Houston is 9.3mph

    At Z232, Baker is 81 frames until extant Z313 (4.42seconds) @ 13.671ft per sec (9.3mph) = 60.42ft
    At extantZ313, Baker is 134.17ft (73.75 + 60.42ft) down Houston St.
    Houston St. building corner to building corner = 200ft
    At extant Z313, Baker needs to travel 200 - 134.17ft= 65.83ft to hit the corner of Houston and Elm St.
    An assumption that he remained on the outside of the motorcade as he traveled to his final parking spot is being made, as I have never heard of him weaving between the motorcade to get to his parking spot.
    This assumption puts his Elm St radius travel at a distance of 87.5 ft.
    His total distance traveled from extant Z313 = 65.83 + 87.5 = 153.33ft.
    153.33ft/13.671ft per sec (9.3mph) = 11.21 seconds

    Mr. BELIN - All right.
    After the third shot, then, what did you do?

    Mr. BAKER - Well, I revved that motorcycle up and I went down to the corner which would be approximately 180 to 200 feet from the point where we had first stated, you know, that we heard the shots.
    Mr. BELIN - What distance did you state? What we did on Friday afternoon, we paced off from the point you thought you heard the first shot to the point at which you parked the motorcycle, and this paced off to how much?
    Mr. BAKER - From 180 to 200 feet.
    Mr. BELIN - That is where you parked the motorcycle?

    After a shot at extant z232, Baker would have been approx 214ft from his parking spot.
    After a shot at extant z313, Baker would have been approx 153.3ft from his parking spot.


    From my reading comprehension of MrDavidson's calculations of distance traveled and it's timing along Houston St from Main St to Elm St by DPD MotorcycleOfficer ML Baker, it appears that film/photo comparison indicates OfficerBaker's exact location at Zfilm232. However, it appears as though the timing estimate for the approximate 214ft distance from his location at Zfilm232 to his parking spot is calculated by estimating his speed to be 9.3mph, based on the average motorcade speed for the same location/distance. And, it also appears to be some reliance on filming/frames per second to determine said average motorcade speed. These calculations place OfficerBaker's location at Zfilm313 approximately 153.3ft from his Elm St parking spot, a distance that includes an outside turning radius estimate of 87.5ft, rounding the corner beside the motorcade traffic from northbound Houston St to westbound Elm St, and then parking near the divider between old Elm St/parking area access, and the Elm St thoroughfare, as seen on film/photo.
    OfficerBaker reported that "Well, I revved that motorcycle up and I went down to the corner which would be approximately 180 to 200 feet from the point where we first stated, you know, that we heard the shots." Although the initial question refers to after the third shot,his response indicates a 180 to 200 feet distance, as measured shortly before his testimony, from where he thought he heard the first shot to the point where he parked the motorcycle. So, revved up indicates an increase in speed, but exactly how much of an increase in speed? And, for how much distance traveled?
    Assuming an increase in speed of 5mph for 127.5ft (214ft-87.5ft) from his approximate spot at Zfilm232 to the Elm St intersection, but decreasing his speed to the estimated motorcade average to 9.3mph for the outside turning radius of approximately 87.5ft would cut about 3.3seconds off his estimated time of arrival at his parking spot. The trimmed 3.3seconds is based an estimated total time, for the approximately 214ft distance traveled by OfficerBaker from Zfilm232 to his motorcycle parking spot, of about 15.7seconds @ 9.3mph, versus an estimated speed of 14.3mph for 127.5ft (214ft-87.5ft). That would make an estimated time of approximately 12.4seconds travel time for OfficerBaker from his approximate location, as per MrDavidson's calculations at Zfilm232, to the Elm St motorcycle parking spot. So, a second or so here, and a second or so there, will likely equal 3seconds or so at some point.
    Accordingly, if OfficerBaker's approximate location on Houston St when he thought heard the first shot was 200 feet,instead of 180 feet, from his motorcycle parking spot, he would have been approximately 112.5ft (200ft-87.5ft) from Elm St. That said, there likely is a time element, although miniscule, to convert a sound to a gun shot, even for a trained police officer and experienced hunter. And, if relying on evidence of a shot fired relative to a Zfilm frame, with an estimate of a weapon/ammunition velocity of speed of sound x two, maybe the relative distance from the shooter, or shooters, to the victims, as well as the distance from OfficerBaker to the origin of the shots can be reliably estimated.
    For clarification, this is not by any means an effort meant to attempt to out calculate anyone. Especially anyone that has applied sound reasoning to calculations. These posted estimates are to simply illustrate what to me can be variances. And, said calculations rely on, and appreciate the posted and researched calculations of ChrisDavidson.

    Larry
    StudentofAssassinationResearch


  3. Default

    The only part of Hughes which includes Baker is after the first splice, after the limo turns the Elm St. corner.

    The segment consists (when plotted) of Baker traveling approx 56ft in 4.1 seconds.

    That = 56/4.1 = 13.658ft per sec / 1.47ft (1mph rounded) = 9.291 mph

    Introduce that to my previous plotting of Baker's assumed position at z232 @ 73.75ft down Houston St.

    73.75ft - 56ft = 17.75ft

    17.75ft / 13.671(9.3mph) = 1.298...seconds

    Did Baker keep a consistent speed(9.3mph) from where we no longer see him in the Hughes film to where I plot him (17.75ft/1.29seconds farther down Houston St.) using the Z232 background?

    Revved up doesn't help much in a time conversion.

    It is non-specific in terms of the accelerated speed.

    If he's approx 112.5ft from the Houston St/Elm St corner at the first shot, he would be approx 200-112.5ft= (87.5ft - 73.75ft) = 13.75ft closer to the Houston/Elm St. corner than z232.

    The reality becomes, the more Baker speeds up, the faster he makes it to his parking spot, the longer he waits to park/dismount his motorcycle or whatever fills that time period, as the syncing of the other films has him off his cycle approx 22.3 seconds after the extant 313 headshot.





  4. Default Timing

    Well done, Mr. Davidson, appreciate your approach in winnowing down to some detailed specifics. That said, I'll certainly double-back here into this thread should I see you making any further contributions.

    At this point--with all the timing elements aside for now, the lying tandem still cannot account for overcoming an otherwise LOCKED roof. Aside from, Dallas Deputy-Sheriff John "Made of Honour" Wiseman, several others responding to the scene also found the roof inaccessible. Not to mention, the observations of Dallas Fire Station Number 3 amid incredibly dark conditions of the same passage way up to the roof.

    Also, what's more troubling for the lying tandem is the testimony of Inspector Sawyer. When we learn that he enters the building at 12:34PM, rides the front passenger elevator to the 4th floor, and then makes a brief search while there, and then returns to the first floor by 12:37PM (his words, not mine), that means that both Marrion Baker and Roy Truly's account of being up on the roof are outright lies:

    Baker ='s -----> quote, Over 5 minutes...but not more than 9:59:59, quote, no more than 10 minutes if that.

    Roy Truly's newly revised lie extending their roof top adventures to accommodate WC counsel's timeline, quote, time delay and back.

    The point here is this, regardless of either lie, IF Marrion Baker really encounters Inspector Sawyer as he claims/says in his testimony, then he couldn't have been up on the otherwise LOCKED roof for Over 5 minutes, because Inspector Sawyer's testimony places the Inspector back on the first floor by 12:37PM (not even enough time for the lying tandem to leave their phantom encounter w/the wrongly accused and climb three other staircases, yada, yada, yada even before 12:37PM, let alone be upon an otherwise LOCKED roof beyond that time.

    Photographic evidence--from different angles and times (I shared one already to accommodate Roy Truly's newly revised lie about an extended stay up there amid his, quote, time delay and back-- does NOT demonstrate the claimed actions/activities upon that otherwise LOCKED roof. Nor--amid all of the camera bulbs flashing that afternoon--does a single photo capture the lying tandem upon the roof either, let alone not a single spectator in that plaza that afternoon is seen extending his or her arms frantically, while pointing up to the rooftop, yelling to bring attention to their claimed activities.

    Which lie is it men?

    You encountered Inspector Sawyer while you should be otherwise upon the rooftop?, Or, you were up there way beyond the Inspector's return to the first floor at 12:37PM?

    Addendum (A) ---->
    Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when you talk, I wonder if you would look at me

    Adddendum (B) ----->

    Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

    How was that again, Roy Truly, when? ----->

    sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

    What did Roy Truly really do that afternoon?

    Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer.


    Cat got your tongue?!

    WON'T? answer or,

    Pleading the 5th?
    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people" -- President John Fitzgerald Kennedy




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