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Thread: CIA’s detailed study of the Hitler Plot was to be used against Castro

  1. #11

    Default Allen Dulles, Nazis, Radziwil, Bush Family

    My latest research find about JFK and the Nazis is as follows:

    1. Jackie Kennedy's mother had a relationship and almost married Baron George de Mohrenschildt (really von Mohrenschildt). To Jackie, he was "uncle George".

    2. De Mohrenschildt's was an "uncle to my Andover roommate" said GHW Bush.

    3. De Mohrenschildt's brother Dimitri married into the Rockefeller cousin's family, the Hookers.

    4. De Mohrenschildt was in an oil business with the Hookers.

    5. Dimitri de Mohrenschildt attended Yale back in the 1920's, shortly after coming over from Russia.

    6. George de Mohrenschildt was evaluated as being a Nazi spy by J Edgar Hoover, the INS and other federal agencies during World War II.

    7. De Mohrenschildt was known throughout his life in Dallas to openly praise elements of Nazi Germany like the Vlasov Army and often gave the Hitler salute to Jewish people.

    8. Jackie Kennedy's sister Lee Bouvier was married to Polish Prince Stanislaw Radziwil.

    9. Prince Radziwil was called in by I G Farben, the German chemical company in the fall of 1963 to try and force JFK to privatize General Analine and Film company which had been taken over for being a Nazi enterprise in WW II. Radziwil sent a fancy letter to RFK to try to settle this case in October, 1963.

    10. It turns out the Prince Stanislaw Radziwil was the son of Prince Janusz Radziwill. Janusz Radziwil was a friend of Hermann Goring. After 1939, he lived in Nazi occupied Poland. Later, he was operating out of Switzerland in partnership with Jean-Marie Musy, the former Fascist President of Switzerland to make deals with the Nazis regarding prisoners.

    11. Allen Dulles was doing the same thing at the same time in Bern, Switzerland during World War II. He probably crossed paths with the elder Radziwil. (There weren't all that many people operating out of Switzerland during World War II looking for deals with the Nazis).

    Adding up all the above, it looks like Jackie was caught between her Nazi infested family and her interest in keeping her husband from being murdered. That's probably why Dallas was the only place she traveled to and appeared with her husband. She likely knew in advance of the murder plot by her family-connected Nazis and thought she might help foll the murder. And that's why she wore the blood-stained dress for days to show her hatred toward these animals.

    James Lateer

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Lateer View Post
    My latest research find about JFK and the Nazis is as follows:
    Adding up all the above, it looks like Jackie was caught between her Nazi infested family and her interest in keeping her husband from being murdered. That's probably why Dallas was the only place she traveled to and appeared with her husband. She likely knew in advance of the murder plot by her family-connected Nazis and thought she might help foll the murder. And that's why she wore the blood-stained dress for days to show her hatred toward these animals.
    Well if JBK "knew in advance" why wouldn't she just inform her husband, the SS and other authorities and insist that the trip be canceled?

  3. #13

    Default

    [QUOTE=Phil Dagosto;123673]
    Quote Originally Posted by James Lateer View Post
    My latest research find about JFK and the Nazis is as follows:
    Adding up all the above, it looks like Jackie was caught between her Nazi infested family and her interest in keeping her husband from being murdered. That's probably why Dallas was the only place she traveled to and appeared with her husband. She likely knew in advance of the murder plot by her family-connected Nazis and thought she might help foll the murder. And that's why she wore the blood-stained dress for days to show her hatred toward these animals.
    "We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I

    "We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl

  4. #14

    Default Jackie, Her Family And Dallas

    Because of the Chicago assassination attempt where he called off a trip to Chicago, JFK felt he couldn't call off any more trips. The fact that Jackie insisted on taking HER OWN SECRET SERVICE GUY to Dallas tells you something. They were all on notice, beyond any doubt.

    When Hitler learned that Nazi General Reinhard Heydrich had been assassinated while riding in an open car, he replied that since he was riding around Prague in an unarmored car, he deserved to be assassinated. Hitler (who lived in an underground bunker himself) probably would have said the same about JFK.

    James Lateer

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Lateer View Post
    Because of the Chicago assassination attempt where he called off a trip to Chicago, JFK felt he couldn't call off any more trips. The fact that Jackie insisted on taking HER OWN SECRET SERVICE GUY to Dallas tells you something. They were all on notice, beyond any doubt.

    When Hitler learned that Nazi General Reinhard Heydrich had been assassinated while riding in an open car, he replied that since he was riding around Prague in an unarmored car, he deserved to be assassinated. Hitler (who lived in an underground bunker himself) probably would have said the same about JFK.

    James Lateer
    Clint Hill accompanied JBK wherever she went, even on personal vacations. She didn't need to "insist" that he accompany her on the Texas trip, that was his assignment. So, no - that tells us nothing regarding JBK's alleged foreknowledge of an assassination plot in Dallas.

    With respect to the SS all "being on notice" because of Chicago that's simply untrue. Neither the SS agents accompanying the Kennedy's on the Texas trip nor the Dallas Police were aware of the Chicago plot because the SS buried the evidence of that incident.

    They might have been aware of the suspicion of a plot in the Florida trip the previous week but since nothing actually happened may not have see any reason to continue any special precautions. And if the Dallas SS detail were "on notice then what were they doing drinking and carousing in a night club until the wee hours of the morning on 11/22/1963? Why did they allow an unconventional and less safe configuration of motorcycle escorts (as per
    Vince Palamara)? Why did they not have MI or Dallas Sheriff's Office support (both were instructed to stand down) for crowd control and supervision of the area behind the knoll? Why did they allow the unsafe route through the Dealey Plaza shooting gallery in contravention of their own best practices and procedures? Why didn't Greer and Kellerman immediately accelerate the limousine out of danger at the first sign of gunfire? Why did no agent in the follow up car, save Clint Hill, react at all to the shots?

    I'm not buying your bald assertion about JBK having foreknowledge of the assassination and hoping to thwart it by her mere presence when she would have been taking a huge personal risk of being shot herself! All you have to back this up is supposition that does not bear close inspection. As for JFK not wanting to cancel the trip he was urged not to go by many close advisers including RFK. All he would have needed to do was cite the ugly incident with Adlai Stevenson as a reason and he would not have been seriously questioned.
    Last edited by Phil Dagosto; 05-21-2018 at 04:27 PM.

  6. #16

    Default Why Didn't JFK And Jackie Cancel Dallas Trip And

    To Mr. Dagosto: I thought I read that it was at Jackie's insistance, but I could be wrong.

    "The 85-year-old had only been assigned to work on First Lady Jackie Kennedy’s detail that day and spent years wracked with grief about whether he could have saved her husband."

    https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/jackie-s-secret-agent-shares-memories-of-jfk-s-assassination

    This site seems to indicate that Hill was assigned to Jackie for a year AFTER 11-22-63 but not before. Frankly, I don't know the true picture on this issue.

    But as for the other arguments you make about the possible cancellation of the Dallas trip, I'm pretty sure that the balance of your presentation is wide of the point:

    JFK had made plans to attend the Army-Navy football game in Chicago in November, 2, 1963. The trip was called off and the excuse was used that JFK had to deal with the Coup against Diem. If he already "had tickets" to the Army-Navy game and the trip was called off, he would have to be given a reason. All the sources I have seen say that the Diem Coup story was just a cover. When you add the Tampa scare on top of that along with the violence against Adlai Stevenson in Dallas two weeks prior, then JFK would have had to be pretty dumb not to get the picture.

    As for the argument that if there was advance notice, then the Secret Service would have taken precautions, this stands logic on its head. Every indication was that the Secret Service were the assassins, or at least were the employers of the assassins. In my opinion, the evidence for that is overwhelming. Just read From An Office Building With A High Powered Rifle by FBI agent Don Adams. He makes it clear that the Secret Service tampered with his FBI research on the whereabouts of Joseph Milteer and his whereabouts on 11-22-63. Milteer, who had proven advance knowledge of the assassination, famously said "the more bodyguards he has, the easier to kill him." That can mean only one thing: the Secret Service were the killers.

    Additionally, when the shots rang out, the limo came to a stop. William Greer, the Secret Service Driver looked back at JFK when the car was almost stopped---not once, but twice. He clearly was making sure that JFK was dead. After that, he sped to the hospital. Except for Clint Hill, none of the Secret Service agents in the follow-up car moved an inch.

    The Secret Service was trained to hit the gas pedal to the metal when they heard shots. Instead of doing that, Secret Service driver Greer looked back twice at the wounded JFK before he even moved the limo. Most people have concluded that the brake lights of the limo were on when the head shot occured.

    I guess many people who read material on this site don't get (in my opinion) the real picture of the JFK hit, the advance warnings and the role of the Secret Service. In my opinion, there isn't any real doubt about that.

    James Lateer




  7. #17

    Default JFK And His "In-Law Problems"

    So you think you have in-law problems? How would you like it if your mother-in-law and sister-in-law were both totally smitten with actual (likely) Nazi spies or even war criminals? You think you have problems?

    Below is an excerpt from a book about the father of Prince Radziwill who was JFK's brother-in-law. It should be noted that the husband of Jackie's sister Lee, Prince Stanislas Radziwill had been hired to intervene by Nazi Collaborator Hermann Schmitz, head of I G Farben in October 1963. This case was "on JFK's desk" essentially, when he was shot. Just two weeks after 11-22-63, LBJ quickly approved the sale of I G Farben subsidiary General Analine and Film which had been appropriated as Nazi property for 20 plus years.

    If course, we know that as a girl, Jackie called Baron George de Mohrenschildt "uncle George". (Actually his name was von Mohrenschildt in the old country).

    And as for her sister's father-in-law, he was recruited to be the "Quisling' or "Pierre Laval" for Nazi occupied Poland. Luckily for him, he refused, but apparently his friend Hermann Goring thought he would have been perfect for the job. (Read Treblinka, Auschwitz, etc.).

    In the late stages of the War, he worked with Franz Goring, son of Hermann Goring and Fascist Swiss ex-President try to get the release of Jewish prisoners and Polish ones too. Franz Goring was heavily involved in intelligence activities with the Gehlen Organization under Allen Dulles. He apparently also worked for the US at times. His Wikipedia article doesn't even have his date of death. Nobody knows when or where he died. Janusz Radziwill was still alive on 11-22-63. He died four years later. He had served many years in the Soviet Union, either as a political prisoner or war criminal, take your pick.

    The following is from the book "Trail Blazers For Invasion" by Frederick Ungar.

    "So the German authorities sought, by temporarily reducing the tempo of murder and deportation, to start a movement in favor of "Polish sovereignty under German protection."

    "They were confident of two prospects for the office of a "protected" Prime Minister, but with their total inability to understand the mentality of others, they guessed wrong. Goering's first choice was a conservative, Prince Janusz Radziwill, who had been extremely polite and even cordial to him when he was on a hunting trip as guest of the Polish Government.

    "Prince Radziwill, however, politely refused the honor of being a house-painter's puppet. Then Goering turned to Professor Estreicher, who also refused and was murdered. The Germans made several more attempts to find a Polish Quisling, and when all attempts definitely failed they unleashed a horrible wave of terror, answered by the Poles with immediate counter-terror. Since then there has been no respite on either side, nor will there be until complete victory crushes the mad masters of oppressed Europe.

    "After they occupied Lwow, the Germans made a last attempt to set up a Polish puppet government with Professor Bartel, a former Prime Minister of Poland and one of the outstanding scientists of the country. He disdainfully refused and was promptly shot, together with the entire Polish cabinet naively selected by the Germans.

    "A final attempt was made by the Nazis at the end of the year 1941. They offered Count Wysocki, the former Polish Ambassador to Berlin, the "Presidency" of "A Greater Poland." The former diplomat "considered" the offer for nearly a month and persuaded the Germans not to execute him ... so the Germans, apparently,gave up. But the Germans will never abandon this fixed idea and, while doing their best to exterminate the Polish people, they are still searching among the living for a Quisling.

    "The stubborn Polish people, brothers of the gallant defenders of Warsaw, have vowed to keep the first of the underground's "Ten Commandments."

    "Remember that thou shalt give unto Poland without hesitation thy worldly goods, thy pursuit of of happiness and thy life."


    James Lateer

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Lateer View Post
    To Mr. Dagosto: I thought I read that it was at Jackie's insistance, but I could be wrong.

    "The 85-year-old had only been assigned to work on First Lady Jackie Kennedy’s detail that day and spent years wracked with grief about whether he could have saved her husband."

    https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/jackie-s-secret-agent-shares-memories-of-jfk-s-assassination

    This site seems to indicate that Hill was assigned to Jackie for a year AFTER 11-22-63 but not before. Frankly, I don't know the true picture on this issue.

    This is completely wrong. I guess neither the Irish Times reporter nor you have read Clint Hill's book Mrs. Kennnedy and Me.

    If you had, you would know that Hill had been assigned to JBK for, I believe, the entirety of the Kennedy administration (if not entirely, then shortly after JFK took office).

    But as for the other arguments you make about the possible cancellation of the Dallas trip, I'm pretty sure that the balance of your presentation is wide of the point:

    Its actually you who are unfamiliar with the facts and have made unsupportable assertions concerning the SS, the Chicago Plot and the Dallas trip.

    JFK had made plans to attend the Army-Navy football game in Chicago in November, 2, 1963. The trip was called off and the excuse was used that JFK had to deal with the Coup against Diem. If he already "had tickets" to the Army-Navy game and the trip was called off, he would have to be given a reason. All the sources I have seen say that the Diem Coup story was just a cover. When you add the Tampa scare on top of that along with the violence against Adlai Stevenson in Dallas two weeks prior, then JFK would have had to be pretty dumb not to get the picture.

    Its true that he was to attend the game. Its true that there was a plot uncovered by the FBI and SS that was eerily similar to what took place in Dallas three weeks hence, complete with a disaffected ex-Marine patsy. Its true that the trip was called off with a phony excuse (not sure if it was Diem or something else). But your unsupported assertion was that JFK could not call off more trips. You present no evidence for this only your own supposition. And I responded that he could have used the Adlai Stevenson incident as an excuse to do what many of his closest advisors had urged him to do - a point you apparently agree with. But now you're claiming to be able to read JFK's mind and say that he must have been aware that something was up . OF COURSE HE WAS! But that didn't just start with Dallas - he was always aware of the possibility of an overthrow (see under Crisis, Cuban Missile) or assassination attempt and discussed the subject often, including the eve of the actual event. WTF does that have to do with him not being able to cancel more trips (which is, again, an unsupported assertion) or your allegations about JBK's "foreknowledge" (another unsupported assertion). And you have failed to respond to the point I made about the SS burying the evidence of the Chicago plot and not informing the Dallas SS office or the Dallas Police.

    As for the argument that if there was advance notice, then the Secret Service would have taken precautions, this stands logic on its head.

    Really? How so?

    Every indication was that the Secret Service were the assassins, or at least were the employers of the assassins.

    Oh, sorry, I must have forgotten about that (LOL).

    In my opinion, the evidence for that is overwhelming. Just read From An Office Building With A High Powered Rifle by FBI agent Don Adams. He makes it clear that the Secret Service tampered with his FBI research on the whereabouts of Joseph Milteer and his whereabouts on 11-22-63. Milteer, who had proven advance knowledge of the assassination, famously said "the more bodyguards he has, the easier to kill him."

    Well, if you've read any of Vince Palamara's work you will agree with me that some people in the SS had to be complicit in stripping the security of the motorcade but to assert that they were the prime movers or employers of the assassins is just plain ludicrous. How can you possibly separate pure incompetence and dereliction of duty from criminal responsibility? If there was SS involvement it was most likely at the very top. Everyone else was just following orders. I seriously doubt that the plot involved agents drinking after hours. It probably did involve change to the motorcade route, changes to the motorcycle escort and lack of MI support but the agents on the detail would not have been included by the plotters in those decisions. In any case you initially argued that they were "all on notice, beyond any doubt". Now you're arguing that they were behind the plot!

    I haven't read Adams' book but I think its a real stretch to go from Milteer having actual fore-knowledge of the assassination (a debatable point
    - anyone can engage in speculation or repeat idle chatter from people who wanted JFK killed but had no actual role in the event) to saying that the SS was behind the crime.

    That can mean only one thing: the Secret Service were the killers.

    Ummm, no - it means nothing of the kind. It's merely an observation that the more bodyguards one has the greater the probability that one or more can be co-opted. But there's no evidence whatsoever that any SS agent shot at Kennedy (outside of that silly accidental shooting scenario involving Hickey). How can you possibly make such a claim?

    Additionally, when the shots rang out, the limo came to a stop. William Greer, the Secret Service Driver looked back at JFK when the car was almost stopped---not once, but twice. He clearly was making sure that JFK was dead.

    Oh really? There's no alternate explanation such as he failed in his duty due to a complacency and never having experienced such and event? You don't think its possible that he had a quite natural reaction to his car being shot at and hit the brakes instead of doing what he was supposed to do and get the hell out of there? Did you somehow retroactively read his mind to determine his intent? How can you possibly know this?

    After that, he sped to the hospital. Except for Clint Hill, none of the Secret Service agents in the follow-up car moved an inch.

    One other agent (don't recall his name) started to jump off the follow up car but was ordered back by the driver Emory Roberts. The rest simply obeyed Roberts. Again, they failed in their duty but there's no way to ascribe any criminal intent to their inaction. Some of them may have been hung over and sleepy from their escapades from the night before. We have no way of knowing.

    The Secret Service was trained to hit the gas pedal to the metal when they heard shots. Instead of doing that, Secret Service driver Greer looked back twice at the wounded JFK before he even moved the limo. Most people have concluded that the brake lights of the limo were on when the head shot occured.

    Yes, all that is true. So what? How do you get from there to alleging that Greer deliberately stopped the car and didn't speed away until he know JFK was dead? Could he have been involved? Sure. Is there any actual proof of this? No.

    I guess many people who read material on this site don't get (in my opinion) the real picture of the JFK hit, the advance warnings and the role of the Secret Service.

    Well, the same could be said of you. I agree that there had to be some complicity by some SS personnel but I seriously doubt that field agents were involved. You're making exaggerated claims based on nothing more that supposition and conjecture. The "evidence" you supply simply doesn't support your conclusions. This type of argument is what gives assassination research a bad name.

    In my opinion, there isn't any real doubt about that.

    Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not to their own facts. You've crossed that line repeatedly in this discussion.
    James Lateer



    My responses in blue.
    Last edited by Phil Dagosto; 05-28-2018 at 12:50 PM.

  9. #19

    Default The Secret Service in Dallas and Why Was The Trip Not Cancelled

    Mr. Dagosto: As usual, I am humbled and grateful for the careful attention given to my posting about the above. Thank you again for this helpful analysis. I count myself fortunate to have help in analyzing and critiquing (and fixing) my theories.

    In putting together the first-ever organizational chart for the JFK assassination, I have followed the principle of following the most likely explanation, not the conclusively proven explanation. I did not recognize any "default" conclusion like the presumption of innocence, the presumption of "no conspiracy", the requirement of some existing published backup, etc. etc.

    If I came to a fork in the road (logically), I took one, (the best looking and sounding one). If there were ten alternatives, I took the best two or three and pursued them until I reached a dead end. Invariably, there was always one of them that proved out.

    Of the 70 plus people on my chart, I read a complete biography or the equivalent on about 20. And that doesn't include the biographies of those I ruled out or rejected which was at least an equal number.

    There is actually only one real, accurate chart. Everybody can't have their own cast of players. There was only one plot, it just comes down to how close a person is to knowing and identifying the people on it.

    I have been amazed that not one person has challenged me on the inclusion of anyone on my chart. The usual criticism has been that with 70 people in the plot, somebody would have talked and therefore, there couldn't really be 70 people. And, needless to say, there are no competing or alternative charts in existence (that I know of).

    I haven't read the complete work of Vince Palamara but I have read his writing on the internet on various topics. Like all the veterans who published years before me, I have only respect for their patriotism (sounds corny but it's true). [Especially appropriate on Memorial Day, come to think of it.]

    Their work will live on for future generations when they are gone.

    I do agree with you totally that if the Secret Service were complicit, it would only be the top dogs (and a few smaller dogs). Also, there were undoubtedly some incompetent Secret Service people, drunks, party animals, etc. etc. We apparently still have those today, unfortunately.

    Our theories probably don't differ in basic approach. But your take on the "state of mind" of, say, Jackie or JFK or RFK or Milteer would probably all be different. It is not easy, at all, to prove what was in the mind of JFK or Milteer (or anybody for that matter). Nobody is a mind reader. Especially 55 years after the fact. But you can get deep into the politics which a leader believed in. You can get a feeling for his tendency to lie or tell the truth. You can understand where he grew up, what was his religious loyalty and so forth. And who did he socialize or hang out with? What were his habits over the long term, from college until old age?

    All of these tools must be used to identify the killers, because we will never see a smoking gun, never a deathbed confession, none of that. But in my judgment, circumstantial evidence is more than adequate to prove what happened to JFK. You just need a whole lot of it to piece all the puzzle together.

    James Lateer

  10. #20

    Default Operation Zipper and the JFK Plot

    Look at the reference to Operation Zipper in this article:

    https://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/regicide.pdf

    The look at the reference to Zipper in Hitler's Intelligence Chief: Walter Schellenberg by Doerries.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=Rw...olume&q=zipper

    If the JFK plot was named "Zipper" and the code-name of General Reinhard Gehlen's German spy organization was "Zipper", doesn't that add up to something?

    I am looking forward to the June 19, 2018 release of The Skorzeny Papers by Ganis and Russell. Hopefully, it will not be delayed any longer. It could have some fresh information on the JFK assassination and the relationship to Skorzeny and/or his network.

    James Lateer

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