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Thread: The Tippit Case in the New Millenium

  1. Default The Tippit Case in the New Millenium

    I think this essay turned out pretty well. It was a lot if work to read all that testimony.

    But I think it paid off.

    As of now, the Tippit case has risen to a new plateau. But I don't see any way to take it further. I try to explain why in the essay.

    You will enjoy it I know.

    https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-k...new-millennium

  2. #2

    Default Tippit Case

    When Oswald was at his rooming house on 11-22-63, his landlady heard a police car honk its horn multiple times. Is it possible that when Oswald came out of the rooming house carrying his pistol, that that police in that car took Oswald into the car and drove him to the scene of the Tippit shooting, (in order to set up a "shot while escaping" situation). That car could have dropped Oswald near the Tippit car and left, thinking that Tippit would then kill Oswald.

    But then Oswald killed Tippit first because the other police didn't know he had a revolver.

    Is this possible?

    James Lateer

  3. Default

    Trenchant work, boiling 50+ years of accumulated sap down to genuine syrup in brisk fashion, almost all of the phony eyewitnesses evaporating into thin air, whence they were summoned.

    All save one. I'm curious as to why uncorroborated part A (WR p.166) of Benavides' tale of two arrivals is retained, fabricated to replace Bowley as the man who made the call on Tippit's radio, at the same time as a matter of convenience converting him into one of many pseudo-eyewitnesses. This role augmentation must have happened after he gave his lost statement to DPD, the contents of which likely conformed to part B, the part that actually happened. B starts with his arrival at the murder scene as observed by Guinyard (WC VII p.698), in his truck, and has no eyewitness implication. Based on B it makes sense that Benavides did not attend a lineup.

    Putting that aside, the article is a pleasure to read.

  4. Default

    Milo:

    Can you explain that a little more so I don't have to go searching for the info?

    What do you mean about Benavides and A and B? Are you saying that Benavides was not actually there to see the whole action?

    As per James: I do not think Oswald was at 10th and Patton.

  5. Default

    part A (Benavides eyewitness to a murder)

    "Another witness, Domingo Benavides, was driving a pickup truck west on 10th Street... He then heard three shots and saw the policeman fall to the ground."
    WR p.166

    Mr. BENAVIDES - I saw this police car.
    Mr. BELIN - You saw a police car?
    Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN - Where was the police car?
    Mr. BENAVIDES - It was sitting about 4 or 5 feet from the curb and down about 2 houses from the corner of Patton Street.
    Mr. BELIN - All right. Was it between Patton and Denver?
    Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
    Mr. BELIN - On what side of East 10th, north or south?
    Mr. BENAVIDES - On the south side.
    Mr. BELIN - What direction was it headed?
    Mr. BENAVIDES - It was headed east.
    Mr. BELIN - What did you see then?
    Mr. BENAVIDES - I then pulled on up and I seen this officer standing by the door. The door was open to the car, and I was pretty close to him, and I seen Oswald, or the man that shot him, standing on the other side of the car
    WC VI p.447

    Corroboration of first arrival -- none, unobserved by Holan & Cimino (who could hardly miss a bright yellow truck parked very close to, possibly obstructing, their respective lines-of-sight).

    part B (Benavides exit & re-entrance, gathering spent shells)

    Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
    Mr. BENAVIDES - At the time I walked out, I guess I was scared, so I started across the street--alley between the two houses to my mother's house, and I got in the yard and I said I'd better go back, or just caught myself until I got over there, I guess, so I went back around there.
    Mr. BELIN - When you went back, what did you do? First of all, was there anything up to that time that you saw there or that you did that you haven't related here that you can think of right now?
    Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, I started--I seen him throw the shells and I started to stop and pick them up, and I thought I'd better not so when I came back, after I had gotten back, I picked up the shells.
    WC VI p.449

    Corroboration of second arrival -- Guinyard observed an arrival by truck, not on foot.

    Mr. BALL. Were you there when the truck came up that was driven by Benavides?
    Mr. GUINYARD. Yes, sir.
    Mr. BALL. He came up right after this?
    Mr. GUINYARD. Yes; he came up from the east side---going west.
    Mr. BALL. And then what did you do after that?
    Mr. GUINYARD. Well, we stood there a while and talked and I called him Donnie, he picked up all them empty hulls that come out of the gun.
    Mr. BALL. Who did--Benavides?
    Mr. GUINYARD. Yes.
    WC VII p.398 (page number correction to previous post)

    *****

    No DPD, FBI or SS statement by Benavides exists, although Leavelle's Supplementary Offense Report (11/22/63) states that he made an affidavit that day. It also states that Benavides was an eyewitness to a corpse and nothing else, which explains why he was not taken to a lineup.

    --"Another witness who saw the officer lying in the street, but did not see suspect, was a Domingo Benavides, 509 East Jefferson, WH 2-0559. He was at the scene and picked up 2 spent 38 hulls and turned over to Officer J. M. Poe, 1175, who in turn gave them to Crime Lab Investigator, Pete Barnes, who was present and dusted the police car for prints."

    --"All of the above witnesses, with the exception of Scoggins, made affidavits."

    *****

    Benavides was not actually there to see the whole action -- part A is fiction.

  6. #6

    Default Oswald and Tippit

    When Oswald was at the rooming house, a police car honked twice outside (according to his landlady). Then Oswald was at the Tippit murder scene four minutes later.

    If that cop car was actually there to drive him to the place where Tippit was murdered, then that would explain how he got there in four minutes.

    An even bigger question is, why would a bystander use Tippit's radio to call the DPD for help? I sure wouldn't know how to use a police radio. I wouldn't even think about using a police radio. I would go into a store and ask to use the phone. It would be an interesting test to take such a vintage radio and test a group of people and find out how many can use it.

    If this other police car (the one that honked at the rooming house) drove Oswald to the scene of Tippit's murder, then that would explain the radio, since police obviously know how to use their own radios.

    Based on the placement and timing of witnesses, did a second police car have time to ferry Oswald, then drop him off and leave before these other witnesses came on the scene? From the above testimony, it looks like the "witnesses" weren't witnesses at all but "fakers" who were repeating a script suggested to them by the DPD.

    James Lateer

  7. Default

    It would be possible to drive Oswald to the scene from the Beckley location I think.

    Well then Milo, I guess you are saying that when Benavides finally did ID Oswald, I think on TV, for Dan Rather, then that was simply a lie by him.

    I was not aware there was no witness report at all for him from anyone. Are you sure?
    Last edited by Jim DiEugenio; 05-02-2018 at 02:13 PM.

  8. Default Search result

    So far no success locating DPD, FBI or SS statements by Benavides. Also, statements either confirming or referring to Benavides' role as Tippit murder eyewitness are absent from the following, excluding his WC testimony. (First two from the "Records of the JFK Assassination Collection: Key Persons Files.")

    1. SS Report CO-2-34,030 (CR87 12/1/63) -- list of "witnesses to the [Tippit] shooting." Benavides not listed.
    2. Key Persons List (CR81b undated, unattributed) -- witness list ("case report of Tippit's murder"). Bowley made this list. Benavides did not.
    3. Armstrong's Benavides papers at Baylor, surprisingly slim.

    Leavelle's WC testimony is also interesting --
    Mr. BALL. You also talked to Domingo Benavides?
    Mr. LEAVELLE. yes.
    Mr. BALL. D-o-m-i-n-g-o B-e-n-a-v-i-d-e-s [spelling]. I would think it would be spelled differently.
    Mr. LEAVELLE. He was supposed to be Mexican descent but that Benavides is actually an Italian name, I believe.
    Mr. BALL. Well, did you talk to him also?
    Mr. LEAVELLE. I talked with him but I do not believe we ever took an affidavit off him that I recall--may have.
    Mr. BALL. Didn't he tell you that he picked up some empty hulls?
    Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes, he told me he picked them up and gave them to the officer. I remember the officer told me he had gotten the hulls from someone who gave them to him, and when I talked to Domingo, he said he was the one picked them up and give them to the officer.
    ...
    Mr. BALL. Do you know why Domingo Benavides was never brought down for the showup?
    Mr. LEAVELLE. I think he said he never saw the man actually. I believe he said later on he did not see the man.
    Mr. BALL. He testified here he saw the man running.
    Mr. LEAVELLE. But he---either that or he told me he could not recognize him, one or the other.
    WC VII pp.263-4

    So vague! Guess Leavelle forgot about the Supplementary Offense Report. The ethnic discussion is a hoot -- he should have stuck to badgering witnesses & manufacturing evidence.

    I am unfamiliar with Benavides' TV statement. When did he make it?
    Last edited by Milo Reech; 05-02-2018 at 02:08 PM. Reason: minor edits for clarity

  9. Default

    For the 1967 CBS Special, Benavides turned around and identified Oswald.

    What makes that so odd is that he was ready to testify on camera for Mark Lane in 1966 saying he could also. But when the cops heard he was going to talk to Lane, they apparently got to him because he did not show up for the interviews. (McBride, p. 461)

    Also, Callaway said to Myers that CBS helped buy Benavides a car. And there was also the shooting of his little brother. That would change someone's mind I think.

  10. Default Mr. & Mrs. Wright 501 10th Street (intersection at 10th & Patton)

    Nothing quite like a little hush money, or deadly force applied to a dear loved one to help someone else see the "light".

    These tactics had to be used, because the framing of the wrongly accused was left with little choice but to cut corners, cheat, lie, intimidate and/or completely ignore *eyewitnesses contrary to the contrived “evidence”.


    The plain simple truth doesn’t require 26 volumes.

    *Mr. & Mrs. Wright took the real truth to their graves (RIP).
    Last edited by Alan Ford; 05-02-2018 at 07:41 PM.
    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people" -- President John Fitzgerald Kennedy




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