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Thread: What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey

  1. #11

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    One of the 15 in the Saudi 'hit squad' who tortured, cut off Kashoggi's fingers moments after he entered the Embassy, gave him a tranquilizer when he began to scream - and then proceeded to cut off his arms and legs when he was STILL alive [and took 14 minutes to die] - has himself died in a car 'accident' in Riyadh....I imagine the rest of them will soon be dead...reminds me of Dallas.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  2. #12

    Default Trump Family Friend/Ax Murderer

    Just talked over dinner with a person who has concluded that Trump's worldwide peer group is typified by this AX MURDERER!!!!!

    Can't say that that opinion is inaccurate. In fact, IT'S DEAD ON!!!!

    On a related topic, I was talking also with a person with a degree in Political Science who strongly agrees with me that Elizabeth Warren will be the candidate for the Democrats this next election in 2020.

    Given the situation with the Deep State/National Security State, it won't be too long now before Elizabeth Warren is investigated by the FBI and/or accused of sexual harrassment by a younger employee.

    Or even worse; since she would obviously be loathed by the international banker set, she may even wind up like Bobby Kennedy. Maybe even look for a Lee Harvey Oswald type coming into the life of Elizabeth Warren.

    Just pure speculation and nothing more. But let's wait and see.

    James Lateer

  3. #13

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    THE STORY OF Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance and possible murder has riveted the world’s attention with its macabre, and mysterious, details. The soft-spoken but sharply critical Saudi journalist vanished after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, on October 2. Theories about his fate include the horrifying possibility that Khashoggi was murdered — and perhaps even tortured and dismembered — at the hands of the Saudi state. (The Saudi government continues to vehemently deny these charges.) Should these allegations prove true, Khashoggi’s fate could have vast ramifications for the reputation of Saudi’s Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman, known as MBS, who has until now sought to establish himself as a figure of modernization and reform. Already, Khashoggi’s case has elicited an unusually strong response from Western media and parts of the American government alike, casting Saudi Arabia’s geopolitical future in doubt.
    “The case of Jamal Khashoggi, unfortunately, is only the tip of the iceberg.”
    For some, the prospect that the Saudi government would order the assassination of one of its own citizens abroad seems unthinkable. Yet Khashoggi’s case would not be without precedent. Saudi Arabia’s government has long sought to exert control of its people beyond the kingdom’s borders — a practice that has only intensified in recent years. “The case of Jamal Khashoggi, unfortunately, is only the tip of the iceberg,” said Rami Khouri, a senior public policy fellow and professor of journalism at the American University of Beirut. “If it’s proven that the Saudi government is behind his disappearance, it would only be the most dramatic example of a trend that has been ongoing for at least 30 to 40 years, but which has escalated under MBS.”
    The crackdown has become so intense that many Saudis living abroad — even those who are not exiled activists — fear they could be targeted. Khashoggi’s story, and others like it, have left Saudi nationals questioning whether there is any distance sufficient to protect them from their government. “We constantly fear that we’re being watched,” one Saudi national living in self-imposed exile told The Intercept in June. “Even though many of us are not activists, we still worry that maybe something we say or do or post online will somehow endanger our families back home.”
    In recent years, Saudi Arabia has employed a wide spectrum of tactics in dealing with dissidents abroad. Often, the Saudi government will begin with an attempt to persuade dissidents to cease their criticism or request that they return to the kingdom to sort out the issue on Saudi soil. Should these efforts fail, the government may move into a more coercive mode. Saudi activists abroad report receiving phone calls from their local embassies and consulates, urging them to come in for undefined reasons. “None of us would ever actually go to these meetings,” one Saudi activist, currently living in the United States, told The Intercept several weeks before Khashoggi’s disappearance. “We know inside there, anything could happen.”
    SAUDI ARABIA’S ATTEMPTS to silence exiled activists and others abroad goes back decades. One such early example is the still-unresolved case of Naser al-Sa’id, an activist who became one of the earliest opposition figures against the crown in the 1950s. In 1979, he praised a fringe Muslim group that stormed and took over the grand mosque in Mecca. Later that year, Sa’id disappeared while in Lebanon — and the Saudi state is widely believed to be behind it.
    Loujain al-Hathloul, left, and Fahad al-Butairi, right.
    Photos: Wikimedia Commons

    Since then, the government has continued to exert its control on dissenting voices beyond its borders — including those from within the ranks of the royal family. Since 2015, three princes have vanished while abroad after publicizing views critical of the Saudi government. In March 2017, prominent human rights activist Loujan al-Hathloul was arrested in the United Arab Emirates, where she was studying for her master’s degree. She was forced onto a private plane, flown back to Saudi Arabia, and jailed briefly, then placed under a travel ban. (Her husband, Fahad al-Butairi, was also removed from Jordan and flown back to the kingdom.) Later, in May 2018, Saudi security again arrested al-Hathloul at her home amid a wider crackdown on activists. She has not been heard from since.

    The audacious, and outsized, nature of Saudi’s more recent crackdowns on its citizens abroad reflect MBS’s intense desire to control the narrative — in any and every form — about his rule. The crown prince has spent millions to project an image of himself as a reformer and visionary for a burgeoning Saudi renaissance, but his rule has been marked by increasingly autocratic tactics both domestically and abroad. This shift has lead to an uptick in Saudi asylum-seekers in Western countries, as well as thousands more who, like Khashoggi, have sought homes abroad through other means.
    Khouri said bin Salman’s brutal tactics, now underscored by Khashoggi’s mysterious case, have sent chills through the Saudi diaspora, which could have grave ramifications for the region. “It’s gotten to the point that many ordinary people — non-activists, non-journalists — feel afraid to use their minds, to speak about opinions of any kind. There’s a sense that the government will not tolerate anything but outright pro-government propaganda,” he said.
    The disappeared journalist at the center of today’s furor said as much earlier this summer. Khashoggi, then living in the Washington, D.C. area (he left Saudi Arabia in 2017 in response to the government’s escalating repression of the press), spoke to me for a separate Intercept story about the kingdom’s crackdown on activists and dissidents. “With MBS,” he said, “there is a growing authoritarianism, and it’s only going to get worse. He is seeking to crush opposition before it can even begin, just silencing and jailing people, good, respectable people, that he thinks might one day oppose him. We’ve seen everything become a question of loyalty to Mohammed bin Salman. I couldn’t take it.”
    Khashoggi went on, “The government was sending a message that if you’re not with us, you’re against us. MBS wants to lead alone.”




    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  4. #14

    Default Saudi Arabia and Trump-Invasion of the Body Snatchers

    The recent murder of Kashoggi prompts the following questions as more information has emerged:

    1. It was apparently blatantly obvious that two airplanes flew into Turkey and 15 men went to the Saudi Embassy which could not have gone unnoticed before the fact. There were copies made of the passport photos of 7 of them. This could not have been business as usual.

    2. When Mr. Lemkin says that this reminds him of Dallas, I couldn't agree more. The deed was done for at least 90% political provocation and maybe 10% actual concern about the actual deeds of the deceased Kashoggi, whatever they might have been.

    3. Since it was political provocation, the potential actors were (a) the CIA. (b) Turkey and their intel people (c) obviously some people in Saudi Arabia (d) Israel (e) the UK and Canada (f) U S military-industrial complex and oligarchical types like WAPO and Bezos.

    4. I mention Canada because they broke diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia about two months ago over a milder case of the same type as the Kashoggi case.

    5. The modus operandi smacks most of all as similar to Dallas and/or 9-11. The murder was calculated to be terrible, but the drama-queen treatment by ALL PARTIES CONCERNED INCLUDING TURKEY AND THE US MEDIA put it in the light of being mostly for show.

    6. The Skripal Poisoning, the "pretend murder" recently in Ukraine and the Saudi-Canadian flap all seem to center around UK intelligence. Yes I said UK intelligence.

    7. The fact that Trump has not appointed any ambassadors to Saudi or to Turkey makes it look like the CIA wants the field clear to themselves. That's why the Mike Pompeo mission welds together the CIA and the State Department with a clear field to do any and all things outrageous and unfettered and uncontrolled.

    8. I think there is a 50-50% chance that the Saudi leader MBS really didn't know about this in advance. You could easily see this as a way for people inside Saudi Arabia to get rid of MBS. Who benefits? It seems like the rivals to MBS benefit more than does MBS himself.

    9. Another angle is that Kashoggi was bad-mouthing Muslim countries as a group. Thus, ANOTHER STRONG POSSIBILITY is that this was a collusive project between the Turkish dictator and the dictators in Saudi Arabia in attempting to freak out Western Journalists for the interest of both Turkey and Saudi Arabia and their bad press coverage.

    10. Aside from world-wide horror and revulsion, this effect of this Kashoggi incident doesn't seem to be driving any particular hostility between any two countries in any particular direction. There is no military confrontation building between Saudi and Turkey. Nobody is involving Russia or Iran in any way. The Israelis have been mum.

    11. Probably the most telling fact is that the ex-CIA people like Brennan and Clapper as well as the FBI "bad boys" like Comey, McCabe, Mueller, etc. etc. haven't seized on this to use against Trump. They have been uncharacteristically absent from talk shows on this topic.

    12. Most bizarre of all is the statement today by Trump to the effect that MBS and his son-in-law Kushner are "just two fine young men just having their usual good fun".
    If this incident is what it is being presented as, then that statement by Trump would not have been made and would be too insane for even the barely sane Trump.

    13. Trump is actually viewing this who "Kashoggi incident" as one of those wierd provocations like the Skripal poisoning which are 90% fiction and 10% smoke and which in the end (like the seizure of the USS Pueblo) create a lot of impact, but the impact just dissipates in umpteen irrelevant directions.

    James Lateer

  5. #15

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    Saudi Crown Prince Spoke To Khashoggi By Phone Moments Before He Was Killed: Report



    by Tyler Durden
    Mon, 10/22/2018 - 05:11


    In the latest bombshell report involving the Khashoggi murder, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman reportedly spoke on the phone with journalist Jamal Khashoggi moments before he was murdered in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. Turkish pro-government daily Yeni Safak disclosed the new alleged details of the case in a report on Sunday, contradicting claims by Saudi authorities that Prince Mohammed played no part in Khashoggi's murder.
    "Khashoggi was detained by the Saudi team inside the consulate building. Then Prince Mohammed contacted Khashoggi by phone and tried to convince him to return to Riyadh," the report said.
    "Khashoggi refused Prince Mohammed's offer out of fear he would be arrested and killed if he returned. The assassination team then killed Khashoggi after the conversation ended," it added.
    While the report is so far unconfirmed, the New Arab reports that so far Turkish pro-government media have been receiving a steady stream of leaks many of which turned out to be accurate, including pictures of the hit team as they entered Turkey and reports of audio recordings of the murder said to be in the possession of Turkish authorities.
    Meanwhile, the Saudi version of events has been changing significantly over the past two weeks with authorities conceded Saturday that Khashoggi, the Washington Post columnist and a Riyadh critic, was killed inside the kingdom's Istanbul diplomatic compound following a "brawl". The admission came after a fortnight of denials with the insistence that the journalist left the consulate alive, starting on October 5, when Crown Prince MBS told Bloomberg that Khashoggi was not inside the consulate and "we are ready to welcome the Turkish government to go and search our premises".
    On Saturday, the kingdom announced it had fired five top officials and arrested 18 others in an investigation into the killing - a move that has widely been viewed as an attempt to cover up the crown prince's role in the murder.
    The shifting Saudi narrative of the killing has been met with scepticism and condemnation from the international community, and has left the U.S. and other allies struggling for a response on Sunday. As Bloomberg reports, France demanded more information, Germany put arms sales to Riyadh on hold and the Trump administration stressed the vital importance of the kingdom and its economy to the U.S.
    In Sunday radio and TV interviews, Dominic Raab, the U.K. politician in charge of negotiating Britain’s exit from the European Union, described the latest Saudi account as not credible; French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire called for “the truth’’; and Germany’s Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said his government would approve no arms sales so long as the investigation was ongoing.
    Earlier on Sunday, Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir acknowledged a cover-up attempt. The dramatic reversal, after Saudi officials had previously said the columnist left the building alive, has only complicated the issue for allies.
    Saudi Arabia’s al-Jubeir told Fox News on Sunday that the journalist’s death was an “aberration.”
    “There obviously was a tremendous mistake made and what compounded the mistake was the attempt to cover up,” he said, promising that “those responsible will be punished for it.”
    More importantly, he said that Prince Mohammed had no knowledge of the events, although if the Turkish report is confirmed, it will be yet another major flaw with the official narrative.
    Several senior members of US President Donald Trump's Republican Party said they believed Prince Mohammed was linked to the killing, and one called for a "collective" Western response if a link is proved. In an interview with The Washington Post, President Trump, too, said the Saudi narrative had been marked by “deception and lies.’’ Yet he also defended Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman as a “strong person,’’ and said there was no proof of his involvement in Khashoggi’s death. Some members of Congress have questioned his willingness to exonerate the prince.
    "Obviously there's been deception and there's been lies," Trump said on the shifting accounts offered by Riyadh.
    On Sunday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan promised to disclose details about the case at a meeting of his AK Party’s parliamentary faction on Tuesday, Haberturk newspaper reported.
    Meanwhile, as Western firms and high-ranked officials scramble to avoid any Saudi involvement, Russia is more than happy to step in and fill the power vacuum void left by the US. As a result, Russian businesses are flocking to attend the investment forum in Saudi Arabia, as Western counterparts pull out.
    Russian President Vladimir Putin has had considerable success boosting Moscow’s influence in the Middle East at U.S. expense, by standing by regimes that fall afoul of the West, including in Syria and Iran. Last week Putin signed a strategic and partnership agreement with Egypt’s President Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi, backed by $25 billion in loans to build nuclear reactors. Until El-Sisi came to power, Egypt had been closely allied to the U.S.
    Meanwhile, all eyes are fixed squarely on the Crown Prince whose position of power is looking increasingly perilous. Congressional leaders on Sunday dismissed the story proffered earlier by the Saudis, with Republican Senators Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Bob Corker of Tennessee saying they believed the crown prince was likely involved in Khashoggi’s death.
    Lawmakers said they believe the U.S. must impose sanctions on Saudi Arabia or take other action if the crown prince is shown to have been involved. Speaking on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, the chamber’s No. 2 Democrat, said the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. should be formally expelled until a third-party investigation is done. He said the U.S. should call on its allies to do the same.
    “Unless the Saudi kingdom understands that civilized countries around the world are going to reject this conduct and make sure that they pay a price for it, they’ll continue doing it,”’ Durbin said.
    The obvious question is what happens and how the Saudi royal family will respond if it is pushed too far, and whether the worst case scenario, a sharp cut in oil exports, could be on the table if MBS feels like he has little to lose from escalating the situation beyond a point of no return.


    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  6. #16

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    I don't know what to make of this yet....trying to process and vet this....from Sibel Edmonds....take a look...It claims that Khashoggi was CIA as well as Saidi intel [at times]...so while the murder most foul is NO LESS disgusting, there may be more behind this story than meets the eye [read MSM or gov't proclamations].


    https://twitter.com/sibeledmonds/sta...50021164531712
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    I don't know what to make of this yet....trying to process and vet this....from Sibel Edmonds....take a look...It claims that Khashoggi was CIA as well as Saidi intel [at times]...so while the murder most foul is NO LESS disgusting, there may be more behind this story than meets the eye [read MSM or gov't proclamations].


    https://twitter.com/sibeledmonds/status/1051450021164531712


    Along with this being the first credible if as yet unproven whiff of DEEP POLITICAL aspects of his assassination, I hear and am trying to confirm that he was the first cousin of Adnan Khashoggi - the largest 'black' arms dealer ever... Now, what his relatives may have done do not necessarily taint him - but that is a very interesting connection. It is also publicly known and acknowledged that this Khashoggi was in the past working for the head of Saudi intelligence. Would be interesting to know more about that!.....
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  8. #18

    Default

    https://twitter.com/sibeledmonds
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  9. #19

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    His body has been found - buried in the garden of the Saudi Council General's residence [who left for Saudi 17 days ago]. His body, as the Turks said, was chopped into small pieces and his face had been BADLY disfigured......the skin peeled off completely. These people are Trump and Jared [and a lot of other of that ilk's] buddies and business partners......

    Erdogan is playing a very clever game - more so today - as he holds the strongest hand of 'cards'...he has PROOF of the deeds and exactly how they were done - and is not releasing them - forcing the Saudis and the USA to admit the full horrible truth. I usually don't like Ergodan much, but on this he is getting my respect.
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  10. #20

    Default

    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

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