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Thread: Familiar Faces in Dealey Plaza

  1. #41
    Myra Bronstein Guest

    Default David Atlee Phillips--Why don't we see him in Dealey Plaza?

    David Atlee Phillips, aka Maurice Bishop, was Lee Harvey Oswald's CIA handler.

    According to Larry Hancock, researcher Gary Buell and David Phillips' nephew, Shawn Phillips, had an email exchange. As Shawn described in the email, Shawn's father, James Phillips, became aware that his brother, David, had in some way been "seriously involved" in the JFK assassination. James and David argued about this vigorously and it resulted in a silent hiatus between them that lasted for almost six years.

    As David was dying of lung cancer he called his brother. James asked David pointedly "Were you in Dallas that day?" David answered, "Yes," and James hung up the phone on him.

    So, are there photographs of Dealey Plaza in which a David Atlee Phillips lookalike can be spotted?
    If not, why not?
    Was Phillips in disguise?
    Was Phillips in Dallas but not in Dealey Plaza? Perhaps in HL Hunt's office?
    Was he in one of the many photographs that were confiscated?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myra Bronstein View Post
    "Lois Gibson works for the Houston Police Department and is probably the most respected forensic artist and facial expert in the world. She has just been awarded with a notation in the Guinness Book of World Records for the highest crime solving rate based on composite sketches. The day of this photograph is november 22nd, 1963. John Fitzgerald Kennedy has just been shot in Dealey Plaza, and there are three men who are being arrested by Dallas Police officers. They have been termed to be "the three tramps."

    Chauncey Holt, Charles Frederick Rogers, and Charles Harrelson.

    Video of Lois Gibson's definitive presentation on "the three tramps"is here:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+gibson&hl=en#

    Full transcript and photos are here:
    http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/loisgibson.html
    I attended the ASK conference at which Ms. Gibson offered a lengthy presentation of her work which, if memory serves, focused on the Charles Rogers/"Frenchy" comparison.

    Here's the problem: Have Ms. Gibson's methods of reconstruction been blind-tested? Has she been given the skull of an individual unknown to her but familiar to and photographed by others and asked to work her magic on it?

    If so, were the tests rigorously and scientifically controlled and evaluated?

    If so, how did she fare?

    Until verifiable results are in, I'm not buying.

  3. #43
    Myra Bronstein Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Drago View Post
    ...

    Here's the problem: Have Ms. Gibson's methods of reconstruction been blind-tested? Has she been given the skull of an individual unknown to her but familiar to and photographed by others and asked to work her magic on it?

    If so, were the tests rigorously and scientifically controlled and evaluated?

    If so, how did she fare?

    Until verifiable results are in, I'm not buying.
    Do you disagree with her conclusions? Or do you merely want her thoroughly vetted? Or both?

    If you disagree with her conclusion(s), which tramp identity do you dispute and why?

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myra Bronstein View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Drago View Post
    ...

    Here's the problem: Have Ms. Gibson's methods of reconstruction been blind-tested? Has she been given the skull of an individual unknown to her but familiar to and photographed by others and asked to work her magic on it?

    If so, were the tests rigorously and scientifically controlled and evaluated?

    If so, how did she fare?

    Until verifiable results are in, I'm not buying.
    Do you disagree with her conclusions? Or do you merely want her thoroughly vetted? Or both?

    If you disagree with her conclusion(s), which tramp identity do you dispute and why?
    I disagree with Ms. Gibson's analyses.

    Jack

  5. #45
    Myra Bronstein Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack White View Post

    Do you disagree with her conclusions? Or do you merely want her thoroughly vetted? Or both?

    If you disagree with her conclusion(s), which tramp identity do you dispute and why?
    I disagree with Ms. Gibson's analyses.

    Jack[/QUOTE]

    Well then please elaborate.

  6. #46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myra Bronstein View Post
    David Atlee Phillips, aka Maurice Bishop, was Lee Harvey Oswald's CIA handler.

    According to Larry Hancock, researcher Gary Buell and David Phillips' nephew, Shawn Phillips, had an email exchange. As Shawn described in the email, Shawn's father, James Phillips, became aware that his brother, David, had in some way been "seriously involved" in the JFK assassination. James and David argued about this vigorously and it resulted in a silent hiatus between them that lasted for almost six years.

    As David was dying of lung cancer he called his brother. James asked David pointedly "Were you in Dallas that day?" David answered, "Yes," and James hung up the phone on him.

    So, are there photographs of Dealey Plaza in which a David Atlee Phillips lookalike can be spotted?
    If not, why not?
    Was Phillips in disguise?
    Was Phillips in Dallas but not in Dealey Plaza? Perhaps in HL Hunt's office?
    Was he in one of the many photographs that were confiscated?
    Try Jim Marrs' Crossfire (NY: Carroll & Graf, pbk edition,1990): In the unpaginated photo section at the book's centre, the second page/snap is of the presidential limo not long after leaving Love Field. At the centre back, in a dark suit and shades, directly beneath the sign reading "Liquors," is a man who may, or may not, be DAP.

    Also check out the gent in the far right foreground (as the reader views) of the pic, chubby, dark-suited, unsmiling, and very definitely not applauding. I assume it was because he was smoking at the time.

    The photo in question is otherwise notable for a prominent number 7 taped to the section of the windscreen in front of Kellerman.

  7. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myra Bronstein View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Drago View Post
    ...

    Here are the problems: Have Ms. Gibson's methods of reconstruction been blind-tested? Has she been given the skull of an individual unknown to her but familiar to and photographed by others and asked to work her magic on it?

    If so, were the tests rigorously and scientifically controlled and evaluated?

    If so, how did she fare?

    Until verifiable results are in, I'm not buying.
    Do you disagree with her conclusions? Or do you merely want her thoroughly vetted? Or both?

    If you disagree with her conclusion(s), which tramp identity do you dispute and why?
    Myra,

    I find her methodologies to be suspect -- non-quantifiable, non-falsifiable, colloquially articulated, untested, and at extreme variance with all that I've learned about how the secret world operates in Dealey Plaza-like circumstances.

    Her lines and overlays have not been drawn to the standards of any discussed, proven scientific method. Her repeated "anyone with eyes can see that ... " challenges clearly are intended to twist the arms -- or should I write, "the eyes" -- of observers.

    IMNSHO -- that's, in my not-so-humble opinion -- there are no significant differences in method and persuasiveness -- and perhaps even intent -- between government NAA of bullet fragments in the JFK case and Ms. Gibson's ... forgive me ... skullduggery involving photo IDs.

    Charlie

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myra Bronstein View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack White View Post

    Do you disagree with her conclusions? Or do you merely want her thoroughly vetted? Or both?

    If you disagree with her conclusion(s), which tramp identity do you dispute and why?
    I disagree with Ms. Gibson's analyses.

    Jack
    Well then please elaborate.[/QUOTE]

    Don't have time right now. Would involve some research and several
    pages of writing. She was correct ONLY about Harrelson, and that
    had already been settled. She was WAY off on Rodgers, who bears NO
    resemblance to Frenchy.

    I suspect it was all a disinformation ploy.

    Jack

  9. #49

    Default

    the actual phographers of the photos were......

    TheTramp photographers were JACK BEERS AND GEORGE & George Smith Forth Worth Star Telegram..
    ,JACKWHOworked for THEdallas morning news took 33 photos around and inside of the TSBD
    amps...and WILLIAM ALENWORKING FOR THE DALLAS TIMES HERALD T 73of DEALEY AND OF THE TSBD AS WELL AS 3

    ofthe tramps....




    Below is another man that was arrested, or escorted for questioning, so far a "no namer"

    That is Asst D.A....William Alexander getting into a patrol car....also taken by Jack Beers..
    which is attached....


    Some may be interested in the artice below......

    NUMBERs 32-35.* Policeman with "tramps." None of these pictures were seen by the Warren Commission.

    In the case of the "tramps," those three men who were rounded up on orders of Police Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer (the man in charge of security activity at Dealey Plaza), we find a sequence of astounding actions. A Sergeant D.V. Harkness was ordered to stop a freight train and remove the men. Harkness arrested the three men and turned them over to policemen Marvin Wise and Billy Bass, who marched them all the way from the west side of the Book building, around the north side of the Plaza, and into the vehicle entrance of the Sheriff's office. Few people realize this entire procedure took place almost on the steps of the Sheriff's office. While Wise and Bass were marching these men to the Sheriff's office, William Allen, George Smith, and Jack Beers of the Dallas Times Herald, the Fort Worth Star Telegram, and the Dallas Morning News, took several pictures of them. Their remarkable pictures show clearly that Wise and Bass took them to the Sheriff's office. Yet Harkness and Sheriff Harold Elkins couldn't remember that there were any other policemen with Harkness. This is utterly ridiculous in the face of so many clear pictures. Why was this done? And why weren't these amazing pictures shown to the Commission so that it could order the men before them. And worse still, there is absolutely no record anywhere that these men were booked that day. There are no "blotter" records at all. The men have simply vanished.

    I have been given a list of the names of these men. Also, the pictures show three policemen. Did the Sheriff, or someone in that office, spirit them away? And why did the Sheriff, who had all of these men in his custody, permit them to get away within minutes of the time that the President of the United States had been shot and killed on his doorstep? These are tough questions, but let's go a bit further. Why didn't the all-powerful Warren Commission -- which included the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, the former Director of Central Intelligence, the man who is now our President, etc. -- why didn't they have an opportunity to see these pictures? The photos would have led them to ask these questions and then to demand answers.


    http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thegunsofdallas.htm





  10. #50

    Default tramp photographers

    TheTramp photographers were JACK BEERS AND GEORGE Smith Forth Worth Star Telegram..
    ,JACK WHO worked for THE dallas morning news took 33 photos around and inside of the TSBD and the
    tramps...and WILLIAM ALLEN WORKING FOR THE DALLAS TIMES HERALD TOOK 73 of DEALEY AND OF THE TSBD AS WELL AS 3

    of the tramps....




    Below is another man that was arrested, or escorted for questioning, so far is a "no namer"

    That is Asst D.A....William Alexander getting into a patrol car....also taken by Jack Beers..
    which is attached....SEE ARROW...

    Some may be interested in the information and article link below......

    NUMBERs 32-35.* Policeman with "tramps." None of these pictures were seen by the Warren Commission.

    In the case of the "tramps," those three men who were rounded up on orders of Police Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer (the man in charge of security activity at Dealey Plaza), we find a sequence of astounding actions. A Sergeant D.V. Harkness was ordered to stop a freight train and remove the men. Harkness arrested the three men and turned them over to policemen Marvin Wise and Billy Bass, who marched them all the way from the west side of the Book building, around the north side of the Plaza, and into the vehicle entrance of the Sheriff's office. Few people realize this entire procedure took place almost on the steps of the Sheriff's office. While Wise and Bass were marching these men to the Sheriff's office, William Allen, George Smith, and Jack Beers of the Dallas Times Herald, the Fort Worth Star Telegram, and the Dallas Morning News, took several pictures of them. Their remarkable pictures show clearly that Wise and Bass took them to the Sheriff's office. Yet Harkness and Sheriff Harold Elkins couldn't remember that there were any other policemen with Harkness. This is utterly ridiculous in the face of so many clear pictures. Why was this done? And why weren't these amazing pictures shown to the Commission so that it could order the men before them. And worse still, there is absolutely no record anywhere that these men were booked that day. There are no "blotter" records at all. The men have simply vanished.

    I have been given a list of the names of these men. Also, the pictures show three policemen. Did the Sheriff, or someone in that office, spirit them away? And why did the Sheriff, who had all of these men in his custody, permit them to get away within minutes of the time that the President of the United States had been shot and killed on his doorstep? These are tough questions, but let's go a bit further. Why didn't the all-powerful Warren Commission -- which included the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, the former Director of Central Intelligence, the man who is now our President, etc. -- why didn't they have an opportunity to see these pictures? The photos would have led them to ask these questions and then to demand answers.


    http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thegunsofdallas.htm

    b:willy:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bernice Moore; 09-21-2009 at 03:01 AM. Reason: spullin

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