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Thread: Big Tobacco's Conspiracy To Hide Health Risks & Deceive, They Knew & Documents Show They Knew - Here

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    Your new here and have zero [it would seem] idea of my ideology. I'm a rebel and was in Grad School too. But I know that the Tobacco Industry, the USG regulators, the NIH and many others knew the dangers of tobacco for over a century and hid it...and you seem to still want to hide it. I was rewarded for nothing in my studies except whatever competance I had as a student; and had no research grants from anyone, nor with any agenda but truthful science and public health at Yale and UCLA. You're coming here with a huge chip on your shoulder and not making any friends....but it seems not to be your intention. By the way, why are you so upset about all this?....what's your motive [pure truth?] or is someone rewarding or paying you? Belong to a PR firm? Have any connections to the tobacco industry?...or just a big smoker who doesn't like it controlled? Have you looked at the full documents summarized in the first post of this thread? If so, then you have little respect for peer reviewed science. Let me guess you don't believe in human induced climate change and most assassinations were done by lone nuts; the government and large corporations know what is best for us and always look out for our interests...if we'd only stay out of they way and do as they say...all will be just fine.....am I close?joystick [The name is Peter, not 'Dude'...a crude Americanism - while anger has its place at times, you're certainly are coming here with a truckload and dumping it on anyone in sight]...but it is your right and perogative. However, to me this is like going over the driver didn't shoot JFK all over again. The issue of tobacco and cancer [and a HOST of other diseases] is extablished fact....not IMO open to question....unless someone has an agenda to do so. [Doubt for doubt sake and the benefit of the Corporations who profit by death, lies and destruction of our health and the health of the planet. Gonna support GM crops and Montsanto next?....maybe this isn't your forum of 'closest fit'.
    As for the claim that "the Tobacco Industry, the USG regulators, the NIH and many others knew the dangers of tobacco for over a century and hid it," upon what science was that based, or do you consider science unnecessary? The NIH didn't even exist as such until it was built up by the Lasker Lobby after World War II, simultaneously with its abuse for the persecution of tobacco. Perhaps this is what you consider science: In 1851, in the absence of anything resembling a database, Rev. Trask proclaimed, "It is computed that 20,000 persons every year, in America, go to their grave from the use of tobacco." (Temperance. Weekly Eagle, Brattleboro, Vt., Jun. 23, 1851.) "Rev. George Trask asserts that sleeping with a tobacco consumer actually affects the health of a person who does not use the article. The Boston Medical and Surgical Journal so far endorses his opinion as the say, 'This had not before occurred to us, but on examination of the facts [sic], there appears some reason in the statement." (Kenosha Telegraph, Nov. 19, 1852.) And "proving" the correctness of Rev. Trask's religion-based assertions has been the unstated goal of the Harvard School of Public Health, just like "creation science."

    http://www.smokershistory.com/theord...._George_Trask

    The lead document you cite is merely a mish-mash of PR proposals. Where's the scientific fraud? They didn't even try to expose the anti-smokers' frauds. Where's the "concealment?" These were intended to counter the anti-smokers' lies about the health risks of tobacco, which clearly would have been unnecessary if these had been concealed as you pretend! Evidently you also believe that those whom you accuse have no right to defend themselves.

    Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for you to defend the anti-smokers' flagrant scientific fraud of ignoring more than 50 studies which implicate human papillomaviruses as the cause of over ten times more non-small cell lung cancers than you pretend are caused by secondhand smoke, which their mass media propaganda machine has obediently concealed from the public.

  2. #12

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    If Frank "Mengele" Colby had a daughter ...

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Thompson View Post
    As for the claim that "the Tobacco Industry, the USG regulators, the NIH and many others knew the dangers of tobacco for over a century and hid it," upon what science was that based, or do you consider science unnecessary? The NIH didn't even exist as such until it was built up by the Lasker Lobby after World War II, simultaneously with its abuse for the persecution of tobacco. Perhaps this is what you consider science: In 1851, in the absence of anything resembling a database, Rev. Trask proclaimed, "It is computed that 20,000 persons every year, in America, go to their grave from the use of tobacco." (Temperance. Weekly Eagle, Brattleboro, Vt., Jun. 23, 1851.) "Rev. George Trask asserts that sleeping with a tobacco consumer actually affects the health of a person who does not use the article. The Boston Medical and Surgical Journal so far endorses his opinion as the say, 'This had not before occurred to us, but on examination of the facts [sic], there appears some reason in the statement." (Kenosha Telegraph, Nov. 19, 1852.) And "proving" the correctness of Rev. Trask's religion-based assertions has been the unstated goal of the Harvard School of Public Health, just like "creation science."

    http://www.smokershistory.com/theord...._George_Trask

    The lead document you cite is merely a mish-mash of PR proposals. Where's the scientific fraud? They didn't even try to expose the anti-smokers' frauds. Where's the "concealment?" These were intended to counter the anti-smokers' lies about the health risks of tobacco, which clearly would have been unnecessary if these had been concealed as you pretend! Evidently you also believe that those whom you accuse have no right to defend themselves.

    Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for you to defend the anti-smokers' flagrant scientific fraud of ignoring more than 50 studies which implicate human papillomaviruses as the cause of over ten times more non-small cell lung cancers than you pretend are caused by secondhand smoke, which their mass media propaganda machine has obediently concealed from the public.
    Sorry, IMO, you are a 'flat Earth advocate'.....and giving you even the 'energy' of a reply gives some credence to the Earth being flat. My self, I think you have the wrong Forum.....but each to his own. The majority of all scientifically accurate and peer reviewed studies overwhelmingly show [as do empirical non-scientific evidence] that tobacco smoke contains about ten thousand carcinogens, teratogens, and other nasty substances, including radioactive Polonium...and it causes emphysema, cancers of the the lung and other organs, increases in heart attack, ischemic heart disease, atherosclerosis/stroke/angina and other circulatory diseases and is synergenic with other diseases [the classic being that miners of asbestos who have a manifold increased chance of cancer who also smoke have not an additive, but an logarithmic increased chance of cancer. What planet are your from? Planet Phillip Morris or Planet Camel? Only the scientists paid by those who who stand to benefit from the sale of cigarettes and other tobacco products would agree with you. Sorry. You didn't answer if you had a hidden interest in this matter....I wonder why..... Did Len Colby send you here?
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  4. #14

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    This "person" is not a Flat Earther, Peter.

    "She" is a holocaust denier of the first order.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Drago View Post
    This "person" is not a Flat Earther, Peter.

    "She" is a holocaust denier of the first order.
    Speaking of Nazis, Dr. Ulrich C. Luft, an alumnus of “Operation Paperclip,” was associated with the Lovelace Foundation for Medical Education and Research in Albuquerque, New Mexico, from 1954 to 1980. He died in 1991.

    http://libtextml.unm.edu/docviewer.p...u-mhhc1131.xml

    "Jonathan M. has been involved with LRRI for almost 30 years. He is currently on the LRRI Research Program Oversight Committee. He began collaborating with the Institute when he was a faculty member at the University of New Mexico in the early 1980s," and was on its Board of Directors in 2010. (Breathe A Publication of the Lovelace Respiratory Research Institute, Fall 2010, p. 18.) He has been an anti-smoking activist since the Fifth World Conference on Smoking and Health in 1983. He was one of three "consulting scientific editors" and "prepared draft chapters or portions" of the 1986 Surgeon General Report, "The Health Consequences of Involuntary Smoking," and was also involved in the 1984, 1985, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2001 and 2004 SG Reports, and was Senior Scientific Editor of the 2006 Surgeon General Report, "The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke." He was also a member of the Science Advisory Board of the so-called "EPA" Report on ETS, the key chapters of which were actually secretly written by an anti-smoking activist crony of Samet's, using illegal pass-through contracts to conceal his role. Samet was Chairman of the IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer) committee which produced the fraudulent Monograph on Smoking and Involuntary Smoking in 2003. In 2005, Samet and three anti-smoking activist cronies formed a majority of the voting board of the ASHRAE Position Document on ETS. In addition, he committed perjury in 1998 in the State of Minnesota lawsuit against the cigarette companies, and testified in the US Department of Justice lawsuit against them as well. He was a contributing author and editor of the 2010 Surgeon General's Report, How Tobacco Smoke Causes Disease: The Biology and Behavioral Basis for Smoking-Attributable Disease, and three of his adminstrative underlings (Roberta B. Gray, Nancy Leonard, and Deborah Williams) were also involved in the report. And, Samet is now chairman of the Tobacco Products Scientific Advisory Committee of the Food and Drug Administration as well.

    http://www.smokershistory.com/Samet.htm

    And, I will not tolerate being smeared as a "Nazi" by cretins who embrace every jot and tittle of Nazi health ideology, and the Nazi "ethic" of lies, defamation, and persecution as well.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Thompson View Post
    Speaking of Nazis, Dr. Ulrich C. Luft, an alumnus of “Operation Paperclip,” was associated with the Lovelace Foundation for Medical Education and Research in Albuquerque, New Mexico, from 1954 to 1980. He died in 1991.

    http://libtextml.unm.edu/docviewer.p...u-mhhc1131.xml

    "Jonathan M. has been involved with LRRI for almost 30 years. He is currently on the LRRI Research Program Oversight Committee. He began collaborating with the Institute when he was a faculty member at the University of New Mexico in the early 1980s," and was on its Board of Directors in 2010. (Breathe A Publication of the Lovelace Respiratory Research Institute, Fall 2010, p. 18.) He has been an anti-smoking activist since the Fifth World Conference on Smoking and Health in 1983. He was one of three "consulting scientific editors" and "prepared draft chapters or portions" of the 1986 Surgeon General Report, "The Health Consequences of Involuntary Smoking," and was also involved in the 1984, 1985, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2001 and 2004 SG Reports, and was Senior Scientific Editor of the 2006 Surgeon General Report, "The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke." He was also a member of the Science Advisory Board of the so-called "EPA" Report on ETS, the key chapters of which were actually secretly written by an anti-smoking activist crony of Samet's, using illegal pass-through contracts to conceal his role. Samet was Chairman of the IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer) committee which produced the fraudulent Monograph on Smoking and Involuntary Smoking in 2003. In 2005, Samet and three anti-smoking activist cronies formed a majority of the voting board of the ASHRAE Position Document on ETS. In addition, he committed perjury in 1998 in the State of Minnesota lawsuit against the cigarette companies, and testified in the US Department of Justice lawsuit against them as well. He was a contributing author and editor of the 2010 Surgeon General's Report, How Tobacco Smoke Causes Disease: The Biology and Behavioral Basis for Smoking-Attributable Disease, and three of his adminstrative underlings (Roberta B. Gray, Nancy Leonard, and Deborah Williams) were also involved in the report. And, Samet is now chairman of the Tobacco Products Scientific Advisory Committee of the Food and Drug Administration as well.

    http://www.smokershistory.com/Samet.htm

    And, I will not tolerate being smeared as a "Nazi" by cretins who embrace every jot and tittle of Nazi health ideology, and the Nazi "ethic" of lies, defamation, and persecution as well.
    I have no reason [yet] to believe you are more than naive and misinformed. Have you a beach or mountains near you were you can contmplate upon? Your 'information' and 'bias' are not only wrong, but [IMHO] bizarre; and in line with the problems we see destroying the entire USA and Planet Gaia. I also find it interesting you do not comment on if you know about Colby, nor answer if you are affiliated with any PR firm under contract with Big Tobacco, or Big Tobacco itself.

    So, tell us....are you a tobacco lobbyiest or just a tobacco junkie? The science/research/facts are NOT on your side....only Big Lies/Evil/Money are. Which side are you on?!...and why? I wonder at your arrival here on this Forum at this time, with [apparently] only ONE agenda. Care to share your your lobby connections and contracts?
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  7. #17

    Default So, tell us who you really are, represent, or believe.....

    This from the CDC...a very, VERY conservative USG entity....the truth of tobacco harm is IMO at least 100X worse than this...but even this blows you 'out of the water'....unless you have Tobacco Corporate Nukes....tell all 11driving
    Health Effects of Cigarette Smoking

    http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...s_cig_smoking/

    Health Effects Fact Sheets
    Overview
    Smoking and Death
    Smoking and Increased Health Risks
    Smoking and Cardiovascular Disease
    Smoking and Respiratory Disease
    Smoking and Cancer
    Smoking and Other Health Effects
    References
    For Further Information
    Overview

    Smoking harms nearly every organ of the body. Smoking causes many diseases and reduces the health of smokers in general.1
    Smoking and Death

    Smoking causes death.
    The adverse health effects from cigarette smoking account for an estimated 443,000 deaths, or nearly one of every five deaths, each year in the United States.2,3
    More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.2,4
    Smoking causes 90% of all lung cancer deaths in men and 80% of all lung cancer deaths in women.1
    An estimated 90% of all deaths from chronic obstructive lung disease are caused by smoking.1
    Smoking and Increased Health Risks

    Compared with nonsmokers, smoking is estimated to increase the risk of—
    coronary heart disease by 2 to 4 times1,5
    stroke by 2 to 4 times1,6
    men developing lung cancer by 23 times1
    women developing lung cancer by 13 times,1 and
    dying from chronic obstructive lung diseases (such as chronic bronchitis and emphysema) by 12 to 13 times.1
    Smoking and Cardiovascular Disease
    Smoking causes coronary heart disease, the leading cause of death in the United States.1
    Cigarette smoking causes reduced circulation by narrowing the blood vessels (arteries) and puts smokers at risk of developing peripheral vascular disease (i.e., obstruction of the large arteries in the arms and legs that can cause a range of problems from pain to tissue loss or gangrene).1,7
    Smoking causes abdominal aortic aneurysm (i.e., a swelling or weakening of the main artery of the body—the aorta—where it runs through the abdomen).1
    Smoking and Respiratory Disease
    Smoking causes lung cancer.1,2
    Smoking causes lung diseases (e.g., emphysema, bronchitis, chronic airway obstruction) by damaging the airways and alveoli (i.e., small air sacs) of the lungs.1,2
    Smoking and Cancer

    Smoking causes the following cancers:1
    Acute myeloid leukemia
    Bladder cancer
    Cancer of the cervix
    Cancer of the esophagus
    Kidney cancer
    Cancer of the larynx (voice box)
    Lung cancer
    Cancer of the oral cavity (mouth)
    Cancer of the pharynx (throat)
    Stomach cancer
    Cancer of the uterus
    Smoking and Other Health Effects

    Smoking is associated with the following adverse health effects:
    infertility,
    preterm delivery,
    stillbirth,
    low birth weight, and
    sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).1,8


    Smoking is associated with the following adverse health effects:8
    Postmenopausal women who smoke have lower bone density than women who never smoked.
    Women who smoke have an increased risk for hip fracture than women who never smoked.
    References
    U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The Health Consequences of Smoking: A Report of the Surgeon General. Atlanta: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, Office on Smoking and Health, 2004 [accessed 2010 Sep 1].
    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Annual Smoking-Attributable Mortality, Years of Potential Life Lost, and Productivity Losses—United States, 2000–2004. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 2008;57(45):1226–8 [accessed 2010 Sep 1].
    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Health, United States, 2009. Hyattsville (MD): Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics, 2009 [accessed 2010 Sep 1].
    Mokdad AH, Marks JS, Stroup DF, Gerberding JL. Actual Causes of Death in the United States. JAMA: Journal of the American Medical Association 2004;291(10):1238–45 [cited 2010 Sep 1].
    U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Reducing the Health Consequences of Smoking: 25 Years of Progress. A Report of the Surgeon General. Rockville (MD): U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, Centers for Disease Control, National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, Office on Smoking and Health, 1989 [accessed 2010 Sep 1].
    Ockene IS, Miller NH. Cigarette Smoking, Cardiovascular Disease, and Stroke: A Statement for Healthcare Professionals from the American Heart Association. Circulation 1997;96(9):3243–3247 [cited 2010 Sep 1].
    Institute of Medicine. Secondhand Smoke Exposure and Cardiovascular Effects: Making Sense of the Evidence. (PDF) Washington: National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine; 2009 [accessed 2010 Sep 1].
    U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Women and Smoking: A Report of the Surgeon General. Rockville (MD): U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, Office of the Surgeon General, 2001 [accessed 2010 Sep 1].
    For Further Information

    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
    National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion
    Office on Smoking and Health
    E-mail: tobaccoinfo@cdc.gov
    Phone: 1-800-CDC-INFO
    If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” - Frederick Douglass
    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
    "Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lemkin View Post
    I have no reason [yet] to believe you are more than naive and misinformed. Have you a beach or mountains near you were you can contmplate upon? Your 'information' and 'bias' are not only wrong, but [IMHO] bizarre; and in line with the problems we see destroying the entire USA and Planet Gaia. I also find it interesting you do not comment on if you know about Colby, nor answer if you are affiliated with any PR firm under contract with Big Tobacco, or Big Tobacco itself.

    So, tell us....are you a tobacco lobbyiest or just a tobacco junkie? The science/research/facts are NOT on your side....only Big Lies/Evil/Money are. Which side are you on?!...and why? I wonder at your arrival here on this Forum at this time, with [apparently] only ONE agenda. Care to share your your lobby connections and contracts?
    Just show me one piece of my information that's wrong.

    I haven't replied to your insinuations that I am "a tobacco lobbyist or just a tobacco junkie," because they are personal smears. Furthermore, you use them instead of responding with scientific evidence. Only "naive and misinformed" people believe that there is such a thing as a tobacco lobbyist or lawyer who defends the industry, instead of selling it out. The fact is that the tobacco companies have never attacked the anti-smokers' scientific fraud in any venue, including the courtroom. And Wisconsin's so-called tobacco lobbyists were literally cousins of its American Cancer Society lobbyists, who lobbied for Philip Morris, were in-laws of Democratic Gov. James Doyle, and close cronies of Republican Gov. Tommy Thommpson. One organized the lobbying arm of the State Medical Society. Their job was purely to sell us out, by collaborating with the anti-smokers in falsely framing the issue as "freedom versus public health."

    http://www.smokershistory.com/tobacco.html

    There's only one side that has ALL the money, and that's the anti-smokers.

  9. #19

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    [QUOTE=Peter Lemkin;29958]This from the CDC...a very, VERY conservative USG entity....the truth of tobacco harm is IMO at least 100X worse than this...but even this blows you 'out of the water'....unless you have Tobacco Corporate Nukes....tell all 11driving
    Health Effects of Cigarette Smoking

    http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...s_cig_smoking/

    [end quote]

    Your CDC screed is nothing but buttwipe. There's no science there, only a command to unquestioningly believe what they say, in the manner of a fanatical religious cult.

    The anti-smokers are guilty of scientific fraud for deliberately using defective studies to falsely blame smoking for diseases that are really caused by infection. This includes their FLAGRANT fraud of ignoring more than 50 studies, which show that human papillomaviruses cause at least a quarter of non-small cell lung cancers, and over ten times more lung cancers than they pretend are caused by secondhand smoke. They've committed the same type of fraud with every disease they blame on smoking, but I'm still waiting for you to respond to this with something other than personal smears and defamations.

    http://www.smokershistory.com/hpvlungc.htm

  10. #20

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    Peter, et al,

    Do these tactics put you in mind of anyone:

    Complete disregard for the critical questions getting to identity and motive.

    Flooding the thread with endless recitations of long-debunked disinformation.

    Ending erudite if sophistic screeds with gutter language.

    Most significantly, the all-important challenge to engage, engage, engage ... in other words, prolong the long-settled debate so as to dignify its myriad sophistries and outright lies.

    This is the stock-in-trade of agents provocateurs such as those who have found save haven at and, in many instances, now rule the EF. The many entities who write under the "Colby" identity engage in these operations on a routine basis.

    The emergence of "Thompson" in the immediate wake of the Bronstein hacking/hijacking of this forum, when coupled with "Thompson's" subject matter -- the tobacco holocaust in which the historic "Colby's" father played a Mengele/Goebbels hybrid role -- give away this provocation.

    "Thompson's" masters are playing a win-win game: If "she" remains, the disinformation spreads as the bandwidth shrinks; if "she" is booted, "Colby," Burton, and their gang of thieves at EF will be shouting about yet another instance of this forum banning someone who does not spout the true owners' shared party line.

    Ladies and gentlemen: I submit to you that, in my highly educated and Constitutionally-protected opinion, there is an overwhelming case to be made that "Carol Thompson" -- whether a real person, a cover identity, or both -- comes to the Deep Politics Forum as an agent provocateur.
    Last edited by Charles Drago; 12-26-2010 at 12:58 PM.

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