Albert Doyle Wrote:I was going to point out earlier that Piper is off-topic to this thread and we should start a new thread to deal with him. I just wanted to add that the criticisms of Piper in this thread are mainly one line answers and sweeping dismissals saying "false sponsor" and "fell for the trap". (I'll read Seamus) The reason I cringe at this is because if you read 'Final Judgment' you'll see Piper has outdone those criticisms and gives extensive detail.
What is really unbelievable is that someone would try to blow-off the Miami-Bahamian bank-Swiss Banque De Credit Internacional cartel as unrelated when one can see that it was the singlemost key to the covert power structure acting against Kennedy. This proved itself in the fact it then took over as the funding backbone for the covert interests of the shadow group that killed Kennedy. They themselves always say "follow the money". Well, when you do you end up at that very cartel and its banks. This is proven again in the fact this funding power structure lasted up until Oliver North and his using it to fund the CONTRA War. The Military Industrial Complex was involved in killing Kennedy. One of their prime interests was the Israel front against both the oil-bearing arabs and iron curtain. Tibor Rosenbaum was a Mossad officer who then became the owner of Banque De Credit Internacional for the sole purpose of channeling dirty money to Israel to support its defense. When Kennedy acted against Ben Gurion's attempts to acquire nuclear weapons he basically acted against this cartel whose members included the US's Military Industrial Complex. Before being forced out under a nervous breakdown Ben Gurion told Kennedy he was "threatening the future of Israel". Israel is a messianic state, you have to watch out when they say something like that against you.
If you know how CIA operates it hides its doings behind plausible interests. Knowing the nature of CIA once you realize Israel offered a huge shield in its messianic zionism you can safely assume CIA went right for that protected shadow to conceal its most powerful interests. It would be a denial of established reality to ignore how that relationship has grown directly since the death of president Kennedy. This day's main war interests are directly centered around Israeli hegemony and that relationship. It isn't a coincidence that Israel and CIA were born within a year of each other. At the time the most important funding artery for Israel was that CIA/mob bank underground.
If you read 'Final Judgment' you'll see that this mediterranean cartel had now become the new center of gravity of CIA international power. The one thing all the players involved in Kennedy's killing had in common was either a direct or indirect relationship to this shadow government. This is why it is important to relate Clay Shaw and his relationship to both the formation of Mossad and Permindex to his connection to the New Orleans operators.
"The Jews are now backing us"
Why did Echevarria say that?
So what let me get this straight Albert lad. Your saying to me that Piper is better or has formed more conclusive arguments about whose behind the assassination than say Jim DiEugenio, Gerald McKnight, Anthony Summers, John Newman, Jim Douglas, Gaeton Fonzi, Sylvia Meagher, George Michael Evica? Now that's one person whose crucial if you wanna look at how religion was used by the CIA to name but a few.
If your saying that the CIA was formed a year after Israel came about Al (I'm not sure quite what) it was the OSS with testicles that's what it was mate. The OSS predates the formation of the state of Israel by about hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm five years. Don't conflate the two. Big mistake.Thus the CIA came before Israel. British Secret Services and spy networks went back even further. And they played thhhheeeee major intelligence role in the setting up of Israel not the US.
As for Echavarria that dude was under investigation about his links to numerous individuals and blurted out that the Jews were in on it in 1994. Effectively meaning Jewish Casino owners. He'd go on too make up all kinds of crazy shit as you can see here. Furthermore Echavarria was quoting from Sierra. Who probably didn't even say this at all.
http://www.combat-diaries.co.uk/diary27/...r12/24.htm
Seamus Coogan Wrote:Mark Stapleton Wrote:Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:To sum it up.
LBJ was not a sponsor or the mastermind of the assassination, just a puppet that was used by the real sponsors.
Israel and Ben Gurion did not organize and sponsor the assassination. Israel is a MAJOR FALSE SPONSOR. The plot was All American and domestic.
Mossad was and still is involved in joined operations with US intelligence but that is a different matter. Angleton being a facilitator of the assassination and the handler of the Israeli desk might have used Mossad as cut outs. However we do not have the evidence to support this. We can neither prove that he did use them or that he did not.
A note for Mark Stapleton:For reasons i have explained in another thread i consider "Final Judgement" a disinformation book, blaming Israel in order to discredit the Angleton-Lansky-Bahamas banks-drug network-far east revealed in the book by assossiation with the Anti-Semite angle. You are falling in the same trap.
The only thing you got right is your statement that LBJ did not sponsor the assassination.
Don't drag up the tired old anti-semite carnard. That's been used for decades to shield Israel from any and all criticism. I emphatically reject it.
And since you claim that the plot was all American and domestic, I'm hoping you'll tell us who was behind it (since you have ascertained the nationality of the plotters with such certitude).
That I have too correct you on your spelling Mark is a shocking indictment (well no to be fair my spelling is better than my grammar, but not as good as it used to be). Why not front up too what Jim asked of before you go off demanding answers of other people like Vasilios. Whose made it pretty clear in my discussions with him that he has an interest in the Eastern Establishment. Namely Don Gibson. Why should he have to justify himself to Jim Phelps clone? Anyhow, I'll let Vasilios deal with you.
HI Seamus, thanks for the support and yes i am Greek.
When i say All American and Domestic i mean at the facilitator level. All of you, that have exchanged discussions with me know that i blame as instigators the eastern establishment per Donald Gibson. However the money trust is not only american, it has international connections and interests that's why i call it GLOBAL POWER CORPORATION. To avoid repeating myself i would ask Mark if he could read my thread named "Texan extremists and military industrial complex vs. eastern establishment". I agree with him and i have said in the past that Israel abuses the Anti-Semite and the Holocaust denier angle but this does not prove that they killed JFK.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:Seamus Coogan Wrote:Mark Stapleton Wrote:Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:To sum it up.
LBJ was not a sponsor or the mastermind of the assassination, just a puppet that was used by the real sponsors.
Israel and Ben Gurion did not organize and sponsor the assassination. Israel is a MAJOR FALSE SPONSOR. The plot was All American and domestic.
Mossad was and still is involved in joined operations with US intelligence but that is a different matter. Angleton being a facilitator of the assassination and the handler of the Israeli desk might have used Mossad as cut outs. However we do not have the evidence to support this. We can neither prove that he did use them or that he did not.
A note for Mark Stapleton:For reasons i have explained in another thread i consider "Final Judgement" a disinformation book, blaming Israel in order to discredit the Angleton-Lansky-Bahamas banks-drug network-far east revealed in the book by assossiation with the Anti-Semite angle. You are falling in the same trap.
The only thing you got right is your statement that LBJ did not sponsor the assassination.
Don't drag up the tired old anti-semite carnard. That's been used for decades to shield Israel from any and all criticism. I emphatically reject it.
And since you claim that the plot was all American and domestic, I'm hoping you'll tell us who was behind it (since you have ascertained the nationality of the plotters with such certitude).
That I have too correct you on your spelling Mark is a shocking indictment (well no to be fair my spelling is better than my grammar, but not as good as it used to be). Why not front up too what Jim asked of before you go off demanding answers of other people like Vasilios. Whose made it pretty clear in my discussions with him that he has an interest in the Eastern Establishment. Namely Don Gibson. Why should he have to justify himself to Jim Phelps clone? Anyhow, I'll let Vasilios deal with you.
HI Seamus, thanks for the support and yes i am Greek.
When i say All American and Domestic i mean at the facilitator level. All of you, that have exchanged discussions with me know that i blame as instigators the eastern establishment per Donald Gibson. However the money trust is not only american, it has international connections and interests that's why i call it GLOBAL POWER CORPORATION. To avoid repeating myself i would ask Mark if he could read my thread named "Texan extremists and military industrial complex vs. eastern establishment". I agree with him and i have said in the past that Israel abuses the Anti-Semite and the Holocaust denier angle but this does not prove that they killed JFK.
I do have a word or two for the scum bags in what you call the GPC Vasilios and I shan't repeat it in good company. Im not taking the mick out of your name for it by the why interesting concept.
Charles Drago Wrote:Wrong, I'm afraid.
Not only was the plot NOT "all American and domestic," it was supra-national in origin (which is to say, at the Sponsorship and highest Facilitator levels).
The ULTIMATE False Sponsor is the nationalism/political ideology chimera.
It was an exageration on my part and i made myself clear in another reply. Plus you are aware of my complete views from previous discussions.
I can make an educated guess as to who were the American component of the supranational SPONSORS. I am not sure who the transnational sponsors (not facilitators and mechanics) were.
Vasilios Vazakas Wrote:Charles Drago Wrote:Wrong, I'm afraid.
Not only was the plot NOT "all American and domestic," it was supra-national in origin (which is to say, at the Sponsorship and highest Facilitator levels).
The ULTIMATE False Sponsor is the nationalism/political ideology chimera.
It was an exageration on my part and i made myself clear in another reply. Plus you are aware of my complete views from previous discussions.
I can make an educated guess as to who were the American component of the supranational SPONSORS. I am not sure who the transnational sponsors (not facilitators and mechanics) were.
Even with Gibsons good work it's very difficult to go beyond the 'Facilitator' level. Simply because it simply starts getting into the intangible-tangible sort of thing.That I was discussing with James Lewis. I do enjoy the backdrop Gibson provides though it is very enthralling in parts. Maybe just maybe!
I understand and deeply appreciate your own understanding of this case, Vasilios.
Like Seamus, I hesitate to attempt to name the true sponsors of the assassination other than to engage in a process of elimination -- an ultimately flawed process that cannot hope to deliver us to our common destination.
Charles Drago Wrote:I understand and deeply appreciate your own understanding of this case, Vasilios.
Like Seamus, I hesitate to attempt to name the true sponsors of the assassination other than to engage in a process of elimination -- an ultimately flawed process that cannot hope to deliver us to our common destination.
Have to have a giggle about us all being stuck in 'facilitator' purgatory.
Well it's that old adage isn't it CD. Which I'm sure you've heard.
The more we learn the less we really know, yet the smarter we think we are the dumber we become. It's that Irish barstad Murphy and that damn 'law' of his lol. It's funny. When I started out I'm proud to say that I knew I didn't know anything and my search was to find the very, very best sources and researchers I could. Its like Len Osanic says (and I agree heartily) that it's the guy who says he knows everything about the case that tends to know the least.
A classic example is the new guy who turns up and claims Johnson did it. I'm puzzled as to why sooooo many people go with this Johnson stuff. I think JFK the film has a bit to do with it. But it was really dying out awhile ago (thankfully) now its back with a vengence. I am deeply suspicious of it myself.
Thoughts on this would be good to get. CD would you like to participate in my little 'Johnson Myth's' essay? Im trying to con Vasilios and James too partake in as well.
As a very young kid in 1963 I remember my barber, Al, ranting and raving that Johnson "did it."
It was the obvious Texas connection, in tandem with the elevation of LBJ to the presidency, that persuaded Al and millions more that Johnson was the "mastermind."
This conclusion born of ignorance continues to be exploited by the Sponsors and their Facilitators-of-the-moment.
LBJ would have been one hell of a "mastermind" if he chose his own state for the killing ground.
It happened in Texas -- and never would have happened in Chicago, by the way -- because a Dallas hit provided absolute assurance that LBJ would do as he was told.
Charles Drago Wrote:As a very young kid in 1963 I remember my barber, Al, ranting and raving that Johnson "did it."
It was the obvious Texas connection, in tandem with the elevation of LBJ to the presidency, that persuaded Al and millions more that Johnson was the "mastermind."
This conclusion born of ignorance continues to be exploited by the Sponsors and their Facilitators-of-the-moment.
LBJ would have been one hell of a "mastermind" if he chose his own state for the killing ground.
It happened in Texas -- and never would have happened in Chicago, by the way -- because a Dallas hit provided absolute assurance that LBJ would do as he was told.
Ditto to that CD ditto to that indeedy!!!!
Charles Drago Wrote:As a very young kid in 1963 I remember my barber, Al, ranting and raving that Johnson "did it."
It was the obvious Texas connection, in tandem with the elevation of LBJ to the presidency, that persuaded Al and millions more that Johnson was the "mastermind."
This conclusion born of ignorance continues to be exploited by the Sponsors and their Facilitators-of-the-moment.
LBJ would have been one hell of a "mastermind" if he chose his own state for the killing ground.
It happened in Texas -- and never would have happened in Chicago, by the way -- because a Dallas hit provided absolute assurance that LBJ would do as he was told.
The weekend it happened I was sure LBJ did it too. At fourteen I did not know about CIA and invisible governments. That would be a few more years, '73 my study began in ernest.
Dawn