Piper said that no one disproved anything he wrote?
That's because it was one of the silliest books ever written on the case.
Read the section toward the end about Ruby and how fantastic he makes it seem that somehow he came back from the dead or something like that. This was a popular disinfo tale propagated by Edward Epstein, which means it came from Angleton.
Just where does the Mossad fit into the plot? I sure as heck don't see it.
BTW, Piper is good at pleading that his book was improperly ignored since it was not PC. Bull. IT was properly ignored since it made no sense.
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Piper said that no one disproved anything he wrote?
That's because it was one of the silliest books ever written on the case.
Read the section toward the end about Ruby and how fantastic he makes it seem that somehow he came back from the dead or something like that. This was a popular disinfo tale propagated by Edward Epstein, which means it came from Angleton.
Just where does the Mossad fit into the plot? I sure as heck don't see it.
BTW, Piper is good at pleading that his book was improperly ignored since it was not PC. Bull. IT was properly ignored since it made no sense.
Totally agree. I came across Piper awhile back and thought he was pretty silly. To use him rather than say Jim Douglas is pretty poor. But of course Jim Douglas was a real 'pussy' Jim because he didn't ask the tough questions? Or didn't go far enough? Im glad you mentioned the Epstein stuff I was trying to track that.
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Read the section toward the end about Ruby and how fantastic he makes it seem that somehow he came back from the dead or something like that. This was a popular disinfo tale propagated by Edward Epstein, which means it came from Angleton.
Just where does the Mossad fit into the plot? I sure as heck don't see it.
BTW, Piper is good at pleading that his book was improperly ignored since it was not PC. Bull. IT was properly ignored since it made no sense.
Oh yeah, it's coming back to me...where Ruby was allegedly seen on the top platform of an airline stairway getting into a plane. I remember cringing when I read that thinking "why did he include that, it will only detract from his book?" I think he was carried away on his quest to show how deeply corrupted the case was. But heck, if CIA was using crafted doubles, springing Ruby and faking his death isn't that far a stretch - even if it's wrong. No, I think some people fear the Israeli lobby and unconsciously favor it in their thinking. If that's Piper's worst offense he's done nothing that other well-praised JFK authors haven't done. I think there's many examples that could be brought-up of wacky theories some mainstream conspiracy authors have held. I see Horne lauded widely but anyone could equally take his mention of Greer and use the words of all those in this very thread who reject the Greer theory to ridicule his book the way you have Piper.
As much as I admire and respect CTKA and its main author I respectfully submit one word responses and one line dismissals is something that usually comes from the Lone Nut side. As much as I regret saying this I think a debate between that author and Mr Piper, in order to sort out the veracity of what he says, would be very interesting. I advise reading the background history of Angleton and Shaw and their positions in OSS in Italy and how it relates to the formation of Mossad. How it relates to Mossad is very complicated but it has to do with the alliances between OAS, the Corsican mob, and CIA European activities and how they were used to form a mediterranean underground where mob interests were tied with CIA political interests. I've mangled it but it is well explained in the book. Hardly 'silly'. I think Peter Lemkin and Jan showed a very impressive understanding of its complexity and function in relation to Permindex - which is also elaborately explained in 'Final Judgment'. In fact it comes from 'Final Judgment'.
The reason Piper is very credible is because he clearly ties the zionist interests of the US syndicate's treasurers into the unholy CIA relationship with the mob that was centered around those Bahamian banks. Those banks channeled money to Tibor Rosenbaum's Banque De Credit Internacional in Switzerland that was basically a money laundry used to fund Israel. Honestly, I don't understand the confusion. It's all clearly spelled-out in the book and evidenced in elaborate detail.
Roughly, Israel was a main recipient of the funds garnered from this unholy CIA/mob relationship. Permindex was also a main benefactor. The mob melted in with this relationship in Europe by lending muscle to kill leftists and also being given protection for the "French Connection" heroin cartel out of Marseilles. Monies from this alliance filtered in to those banks as a kickback from Lansky in return for this unholy relationship and its protection of mob interests. Shaw was involved with Permindex, CIA, the Cubans, and mob contacts. He was important because he touched each aspect of this unholy union. This underground government represented a separate interest that could be resourced for Kennedy's assassination.
Albert Doyle Wrote:Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Read the section toward the end about Ruby and how fantastic he makes it seem that somehow he came back from the dead or something like that. This was a popular disinfo tale propagated by Edward Epstein, which means it came from Angleton.
Just where does the Mossad fit into the plot? I sure as heck don't see it.
BTW, Piper is good at pleading that his book was improperly ignored since it was not PC. Bull. IT was properly ignored since it made no sense.
Oh yeah, it's coming back to me...where Ruby was allegedly seen on the top platform of an airline stairway getting into a plane. I remember cringing when I read that thinking "why did he include that, it will only detract from his book?" I think he was carried away on his quest to show how deeply corrupted the case was. But heck, if CIA was using crafted doubles, springing Ruby and faking his death isn't that far a stretch - even if it's wrong. No, I think some people fear the Israeli lobby and unconsciously favor it in their thinking. If that's Piper's worst offense he's done nothing that other well-praised JFK authors haven't done. I think there's many examples that could be brought-up of wacky theories some mainstream conspiracy authors have held. I see Horne lauded widely but anyone could equally take his mention of Greer and use the words of all those in this very thread who reject the Greer theory to ridicule his book the way you have Piper.
As much as I admire and respect CTKA and its main author I respectfully submit one word responses and one line dismissals is something that usually comes from the Lone Nut side. As much as I regret saying this I think a debate between that author and Mr Piper, in order to sort out the veracity of what he says, would be very interesting. I advise reading the background history of Angleton and Shaw and their positions in OSS in Italy and how it relates to the formation of Mossad. How it relates to Mossad is very complicated but it has to do with the alliances between OAS, the Corsican mob, and CIA European activities and how they were used to form a mediterranean underground where mob interests were tied with CIA political interests. I've mangled it but it is well explained in the book. Hardly 'silly'. I think Peter Lemkin and Jan showed a very impressive understanding of its complexity and function in relation to Permindex - which is also elaborately explained in 'Final Judgment'. In fact it comes from 'Final Judgment'.
The reason Piper is very credible is because he clearly ties the zionist interests of the US syndicate's treasurers into the unholy CIA relationship with the mob that was centered around those Bahamian banks. Those banks channeled money to Tibor Rosenbaum's Banque De Credit Internacional in Switzerland that was basically a money laundry used to fund Israel. Honestly, I don't understand the confusion. It's all clearly spelled-out in the book and evidenced in elaborate detail.
Roughly, Israel was a main recipient of the funds garnered from this unholy CIA/mob relationship. Permindex was also a main benefactor. The mob melted in with this relationship in Europe by lending muscle to kill leftists and also being given protection for the "French Connection" heroin cartel out of Marseilles. Monies from this alliance filtered in to those banks as a kickback from Lansky in return for this unholy relationship and its protection of mob interests. Shaw was involved with Permindex, CIA, the Cubans, and mob contacts. He was important because he touched each aspect of this unholy union. This underground government represented a separate interest that could be resourced for Kennedy's assassination.
Brief one liners from CTKA is all this sort of stuff deserves. You just recited for me what is essentially in the Torbitt document and the Gemstone Files. Both utterly full of gibberish. But what gets more bizarre is that Nazi's were also a rather large feature of these documents. Don't be a Joseph Farrell. Your way, way, way better than this. Remember all of the excellent work you did with me and Gerald Ven on Lancer concerning Dulles and taking on Nelson and Morrow so fourth?
Seamus Coogan Wrote:I'm scared of the way in which the Jewish angle and the Israeli one is as just as bad a false flag layer as Johnson. If you think someone like Allen Dulles on the Commission (someone deeply involved in the assassination) and John J McCloy (a person well known for his negative views on Semitism) were part of some Jewish cabal. I'm sorry I can't help you. I'm also concerned how racist elements have converged on such stuff and then serious people get branded with it.
I'm very open to a well modded debate on this anytime, but not in this thread.
This is perhaps the most striking example of dishonest, dissembling gibberish I have ever read from a person pretending to be an active participant in solving this case.
As you can see people mostly dismiss Piper's 'Final Judgment' with one line responses. However if you have read the book it is highly credible and has enough dense valid reference and an extensive enumeration of the characters involved and their affinities that it automatically rises above these short dismissals.
It's unfortunate that this subject came up now because things are starting to happen now on the Hendrix murder front and it's taking up all my time. I really wanted to open up a discussion of what Piper points out.
It's important to note I'm not endorsing Piper's suggestion that Ben Gurion ordered Kennedy's assassination. That is for the sponsor/facilitator figurers to sort out. My main point is Piper's book is an excellent source for the mediterranean network and its connections.
Mark Stapleton Wrote:Seamus Coogan Wrote:I'm scared of the way in which the Jewish angle and the Israeli one is as just as bad a false flag layer as Johnson. If you think someone like Allen Dulles on the Commission (someone deeply involved in the assassination) and John J McCloy (a person well known for his negative views on Semitism) were part of some Jewish cabal. I'm sorry I can't help you. I'm also concerned how racist elements have converged on such stuff and then serious people get branded with it.
I'm very open to a well modded debate on this anytime, but not in this thread.
This is perhaps the most striking example of dishonest, dissembling gibberish I have ever read from a person pretending to be an active participant in solving this case.
Mark if a call for a proper debate on the issue is 'gibberish' in your world like I say I can't help you and dare I say likely no one here on the forum can.
Albert Doyle Wrote:As you can see people mostly dismiss Piper's 'Final Judgment' with one line responses. However if you have read the book it is highly credible and has enough dense valid reference and an extensive enumeration of the characters involved and their affinities that it automatically rises above these short dismissals.
It's unfortunate that this subject came up now because things are starting to happen now on the Hendrix murder front and it's taking up all my time. I really wanted to open up a discussion of what Piper points out.
It's important to note I'm not endorsing Piper's suggestion that Ben Gurion ordered Kennedy's assassination. That is for the sponsor/facilitator figurers to sort out. My main point is Piper's book is an excellent source for the mediterranean network and its connections.
No all it's not just quick smart assed replies. I was having a brief re-read of it online. I think there are better sources for the Bahama stuff. I've come across one thing he does well that's outting Chip Berlet. I thought that was interesting 'John Foster Berlet'. I wouldn't let any of this get you down with your stuff on Hendrix. Sheesh, if Scheim did anything good he had an interesting piece on Mickey Cohen and Lansky and so fourth and their ties to the Bahamas. If you can track down Pipers sources that's a good one and yes the Gurion on one is a bit off.
It all reminds me of a song ...
"How Long Has This Ben Gurion?"
I could cry salty tears ...