Jan I just saw your other post on Permindex. Thanks for that it was interesting and I've reposted it here.
(a href="https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?7229-PERMINDEX/page2" target="_blank">
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sho...NDEX/page2)
I'm sorry if the tone of the other post came across as pretty harsh. Thus an apology from me is probably needed. But I do stand by my sentiments. I am a snob in this game and am proud of it. Sure it means I miss some stuff. But I also pick up on stuff in equal measure. Things get weird enough without going looking for them. That crap comes to you. I see very little merit in trawling through long discredited documents looking for nuggets of gold. The only time I go through them is to catch out the authors by their own lies. That's just me I'm afraid. If a good researcher like you somehow manages to find something, well then I'm obliged to give it a look. But since I'm very picky you mate are one of the lucky ones, I'd give a second glance. But the long and short Jan is there's simply far better and more credible information available from a variety of fairly solid avenues. In particularly these days.
Also note that I had actually stated that the Cohn angle was indeed a LaRouche one. Now while I didn't care much for being told that info twice. For the general reader it was great that you went more in-depth. The source was indeed the 'Dope Inc' publication. Funnily enough I had actually made notes on this Cohn business and Dope Inc, for my Farrell piece. These were never used as I had to cut down on its size. If I recall now a virus also screwed my hard drive lol.
Thus it was a right pain going over all this stuff.
Jan I agree that the La Rouche stuff needs a ton of verification. I also think your question below deserves a solid answer.
Seamus - do I take it that you do not believe Cohn to have had any connection with Permindex or CMC?
Cohn had contacts and some may have entangled themselves in Permindex, at some point. I don't see what the big deal is, even if this is verified. His being a Lawyer and schonky businessman means sod all in the Kennedy assassination. That is unless you really do think as LaRouche does that Cohn and Permindex were somehow involved in whacking Kennedy. Cohn was many things. Scum bag most definitely, mob lawyer for sure. But like Nixon he was such a huge ass it's easy to attach any bollocks to him and it looks vaguely kosher. I mean thats if you come from the John Hankey school of logic. Which I want to make clear Jan you most certainly don't.
For starters the evidence (as you suspected) doesn't stack up from La Rouche.
A Question of Timing
According to these fellows Permindex supposedly started up in 1958 with Roy Cohn on the board. However, the cold hard fact is that Roy Cohn purchased Lionel (his main link to the organisation) in 1959 (your newspaper clipping itself is verification of this). Cohn as you state was only head of Lionel for a short time. This was about four years. Medaris's quite disastrous tenure at Lionel was only for two (
http://www.guidetozscale.com/html/lionel_h0_accessories.html)
According to the Wikipedia article Jan their losses were actually closer to 13 million dollars at the time. Not 6. It's also no big deal Medaris was looking after Werner Von Braun. By the time the first Torbitt Documents came out in 1970 and La Rouche's 'Dope INC' came out in 1978. It had been well established that Medaris and Von Braun were buddies. I mean Jan why settle for some photo, when the two dudes performed a duet together on film? There was nothing hidden or private about their relationship
(
http://www.criticalpast.com/video/656750...ssile-mode).
This sort of revelation is the kind of thing Jim Marrs got sucked into with the MJ-12 stuff. You may recall I wrote.
"Jim Marrs' endorsement of the JFK-MM-UFO evidence, which can be seen in his book Alien Agenda, entertained this redundant angle. He later cemented his stance by giving something of a favourable review to the document, which brought the issue to light in his 2000 article "JFK, Marilyn and UFOs: An astounding but likely combination". What made this report credible for Marrs is that, as seen on the document,
In Dorothy Kilgallen's conversation with Howard Rothburg, she mentions that she'd had discussions with English authorities about UFOs. According to Marrs this is vindicated by Air Marshall Dowding's comments about them. I'd like to point out that she never spoke to Dowding, for what good it would have done her anyway, and the fact she had a piece published in the Los Angeles Examiner newspaper on the 23 of May 1955 concerning UFO sightings in Britain has been overlooked by the author. Marrs never once stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, someone clever could have gone back and found that very article and used it? Well maybe he did. When interviewed by Robert Wilonsky in a notorious hit piece instigated by Dave Perry Marrs said he "didn't buy into it". Yet in 2002 Marrs was again discussing many of the dodgey MJ-12 documents we shall cover in this study, and endorsing Richard Dolan's utterly banal After Disclosure."
What seems to have happened in less inhibited areas of the Kennedy quagmire is an old trick they've used in UFO circles for a long time. Older and somewhat verifiable information has often been repackaged, butchered and spun as 'Top Secret' information at later dates. Unwitting, or lazy researchers then end up chasing their own tales (and yes I do mean tales). Of course you and most others on the forum know this. But for the many people this concept is often far too abstract.
Going Banana's
Jan you also briefly mentioned Lionels dabbling in the covert gun smuggling operations and money laundering. This is the sort of thing that mafioso's like Joe Bonnano who was an owner of Lionel and also a member of Permindex would do.
However Jan mate that brave little birdy can go 'bye bye'. Why? Because Jan it's a complete and utter crock of shite!!!!!
I found this on a blog awhile ago. I'm rather puzzled loads of people bar Ted Rubinstein, Magda and myself have never bothered to find out the following. I'm also going to assume that you have checked this angle out so I'll include you in our cabal. I came across this...
"A little additional research, which anyone could have done, showed that Lionel did do military work, that Roy Cohn was related to the owner of Lionel and did do a hostile takeover in 1959 or 1960, and that Joseph L. Bonanno was an engineer who lived in New Jersey. He is not the Mafia boss with the same name! J. L. Bonanno was also an inventor with many patents behind his name. His uncle, Mario Caruso, brought him into the company. Caruso also happened to come from the Naples area -- not Sicily and not Castellammare del Golfo."
This isn't some cover up of Bonanno's role. Simply Google and read up on Lionel who was something of a legend in the toy train fraternity. Magda found some patents.
www.google.com/patents/US2019651.pdf
http://www.google.com/patents/US3264779
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1863429
To add further kerosine to the flaming sham that is mafia Bonanno's involvement in Lionel is. Daniel Bonanno, the son of mafia Joe, told Ted ages ago that the Torbitt report and other sources were incorrect about his Dad being involved with Lionel. Bonanno himself is a Torbitt document endorsing nutter by the way.
You may also want to note that in no biography of mobster Bonanno, was there ever a mention of his being a train enthusiast. During Cohn's involvement with Lionel, the Mafia Bonanno' was becoming embroiled in a series of bitter struggles for his crime syndicate. I doubt very much he'd have given a flying about what was going on in Switzerland. Further where were his buddies from Permindex helping him out in this turf war? Isn't being part of some international cabal about gaining powerful allies? In some peoples world view, people just join up to groups to practice wearing cloaks and being evil. As said I maybe somewhat conservative and snobby in my conspiratorial analysis. But it sure as hell saves me from making a dick of myself by buying into this Bonanno disinformation.
Summary
So at the end of the day, there's no mystery about Lionel for me. They certainly did have links to the arms industry. Maybe they were also utilised as some kind of front for a period. I am open to that. But this sort of caper could have easily been on going before and after Grandson Cohn turned up. The real mystery here is how the Torbitt documents and the La Rouche organisations distortions have survived unchallenged for so long. Not only that how they have desecrated, not added to the excellent work of Flammonde. Maybe Jim and I should expand once more on the lies and distortions of the Permindex angle?
Another mystery which they (not I or anyone on this forum) should answer, concerns their lack of authentic or credible documentation proving Lionel had anything to do with Permindex. Where in New York and Switzerland are the memos and contracts stating that Cohn bought 600 K's worth of shares in Permindex? Are these details in the FBI files on Cohn? I hasten to add once more Jan, if by chance (and that's a very big 'if') Cohn did perform this transaction. How does this implicate him in the assassination of JFK? I'd love for someone to tell us all that one in light of the lame Joe Bonanno angle being nullified. Another fact that escapes everyone is as Jim Di says that the La Rouche organisation and the Torbitt document seem to implicate everybody, but the CIA in the Permindex operation. Indeed, if I recall they seem to have the CIA being subservient to Unit 5 of the FBI and the mob.
If people believe that load of cobblers Jan, they'll darn well believe anything laid out by people like Lamar Waldron. Thus I have to respectfully say that without decent evidence, I don't have much faith in the connections between Cohn and Permindex as presented to me by anyone at this juncture. I don't think you are totally convinced either. Nonetheless, I suspect you'll tell me. On another note I am very excited about the Shayler stuff you linked and will endeavour to take a look see.