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+--- Thread: "We both know who is responsible" (/thread-11260.html)
"We both know who is responsible" - John Mooney - 01-09-2013
Bill and Janet Williams.
It would have been interesting if he used their real names.
"We both know who is responsible" - Phil Dragoo - 01-09-2013
Attachment is New Evidence Regarding Ruth and Michael Paine by Steven Jones
John, you commented
It would have been interesting if he used their real names.
It would have been an instant lawsuit.
Was it Michael's mother who was great friends with Dulles' mistress.
Was it Ruth's sister who was an employee of the CIA.
Were they not, as noted, given a pass on the enormously significant wiretapped comment.
Could Oswald have been framed without the post-mortem cornucopia of inculpatory evidence to emanate from the Paine household.
It proved to be more fruitful with every search.
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"We both know who is responsible" - John Mooney - 01-09-2013
"It would have been an instant lawsuit."
That was a strong possibility.
But would they have wanted that can of pandorean worms opened?
Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers had an interesting exchange with Liebeler about going to the Paine residence for the first time:
Mr. WALTHERS: ... when we went to the door, what turned out to be Mrs. Paine just as soon as we stepped on the porch, she said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you", and we didn't have any trouble at all--we just went right on in and started asking her--at that time it didn't appear that her or Mrs. Oswald, or Marina, who came up carrying one of the babies in the living room--it didn't appear that they knew that Oswald had been arrested at all--the way they talked.
Mr. LIEBELER: How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Paine said, "Come on in, we've been expecting you?"
Mr. WALTHERS: I don't know--to this day, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER: Are you sure that's what she said?
Mr. WALTHERS: I know that's what she said.
Mr. LIEBELER: Mrs. Paine said that?
Mr. WALTHERS: Yes, sir; she said, "Come on in, we have been expecting you."
Buddy Walthers had obviously pondered this long and hard "to this day, I don't know"... "I know that's what she said".
"We both know who is responsible" - Peter Lemkin - 01-09-2013
it reads like a second rate spy novel...but sadly it was/is all real......well, sort of....
"We both know who is responsible" - John Mooney - 01-09-2013
Also of note: Separated Michael Paine decided to "go home" and arrived in Irving at about 3.00pm when the Police were searching.
WALTHERS (to Libeler): ...just a minute---before that, though, this Michael Paine or Mitchell Paine, whichever you call it, came home and I had understood from Mrs. Paine already that they weren't living together, that they were separated and he was supposed to be living in Grand Prairie and when he showed up I asked him what was his object in coming home. He said--well, after he had heard about the President's getting shot, he just decided he would take off and come home, and he arrived there while we were there.
This wasn't his home, his home was in Grand Prairie.
How long would it take to be get from the Bell Lab in Arlington to Irving? 15 miles? 30 minutes?
Could he have know before 2.30pm that a man named Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested? When was Oswalds name broadcast? He doesn't give that as a reason anyway.
The Paines smell to high heaven.
"We both know who is responsible" - John Mooney - 01-09-2013
If Michael Paine had been watching ABC or WFAA-TV then he could have heard Oswalds name 2.42PM at the earliest (the first mention).
It's all very close and just within the bounds of possibility.
18 minutes to get "home"? (If the 3.00pm time is accurate).
"We both know who is responsible" - John Mooney - 01-09-2013
The WC testimony of Michael Paine is very interesting:
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you say in words or substance, "I came right home as soon as I heard the shots were fired from the Texas School Book Depository Building?"
Mr. PAINE - No, I came right home as soon as I heard Lee Oswald mentioned. I did not come home.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember saying that you came right home as soon as you heard that Oswald was involved?
Mr. PAINE - Yes, I think I said something like that. Ruth asked me.
They only had a radio in the lab.
2.42 pm is the earliest time he could have heard the name Lee Oswald.
Earlier, he also says how - by coincidence - he was having a chat at lunch about assassinations with a a co-op student called Dave Noel and when someone came in and told him the president was shot he thought it was a nasty joke.
The testimony about moving the rifle around in the garage and thinking it was camping equipment is a bit of a joke.
Also.. when Liebeler starts to ask questions about Michael Paines mother, the Chairman immediately interupts and asks if all this is necessary. So Michael Paine never got asked about his mother (Did Dulles know his mother?)
His apartment in Grand Prairie was never searched even though he is supposed to be a left leaning ACLU member and the son of a communist.
"We both know who is responsible" - John Mooney - 01-09-2013
Two testimonies that don't add up:
Raymond Franklin Krystinik (Co-worker in the Bell lab - listening to the radio with Michael Paine):
Mr. Liebeler: Your first discussion with Michael on the question of Oswald's possible involvement in the assassination came after you had learned that the shots were fired in the vicinity of Elm and Houston near the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. Krystinik: Yes; he commented about Elm and Houston, and he said that is where the Texas School Book Depository is, and the next comment was I commented, "Well isn't that where Oswald works?" And he says, "That is where he works." And I said, "Do you think it could be him?" And he said, "No; he doesn't see any way in the world it could have been him." But it wasn't but just a little bit----
Michael Paine:
Mr. Paine: - As soon as I heard the Texas School Book Depository Building mentioned. Now, I did not know that--it never occurred to me, I didn't realize, there was a building there on his route. I had seen this warehouse building from the expressway, you can see the name written in large letters, but that is the way from any main thoroughfare. So I had supposed, I never put except when it was mentioned that that was the building he shot from or was the building that the shot was fired from, then I realized I did know where he worked.
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Something isn't right.
"We both know who is responsible" - Peter Lemkin - 01-09-2013
John Mooney Wrote:If Michael Paine had been watching ABC or WFAA-TV then he could have heard Oswalds name 2.42PM at the earliest (the first mention).
It's all very close and just within the bounds of possibility.
18 minutes to get "home"? (If the 3.00pm time is accurate).
Forget the 'time' calculations....the Paines may not have known some of the details, but they know the outlines and would have known for months, IMO. They knew they were babysitting tag-team style after DeM for Oswald to be the patsy for the death of the President. They likely didn't know how things would go down in the Plaza.
"We both know who is responsible" - John Mooney - 01-09-2013
Oh I agree Peter.
I just like looking for the devil in the detail, because he's usually there.