31-08-2013, 01:41 PM (This post was last modified: 31-08-2013, 02:04 PM by John Mooney.)
I've been watching the great "50 reasons for 50 Years" videos and I have some questions about this one (Question for Jim).
At the end Jim talks about the FBI document that lists the collect call from Michael Paine to Ruth on 11/22/63.
The document lists:
"1[B]1/22/63 Collect call from Arlington, Texas, number CR 5-5211. Mrs MICHAEL PAINE was calling."[/B]
Then in the video cuts to a picture of another typed document that says:
'Informant advised that the male voice was heard to comment that he felt sure that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had killed the President but did not feel OSWALD was responsible, and further stated "we both know who is responsible"'.
Are these two documents linked?
I have seen other people refer to the "Informant" document as coming from a phone tap on the 23rd and that is why the WC was asking Michael Paine about calls on the 23rd.
In the video it is implied that the "informant" was listening on the line on the 22nd (did operators listen in on collect calls back in '63?).
Is there some evidence somewhere that puts the "informant" listening on the 22nd or is this a JFK community bone of contention?
(Apologies if there is already a thread on this subject elsewhere, I tried the search function but couldn't see anything relevant).
There is no question that Michael Paine called Ruth on 11/22/63 at approximately 1.00pm. It is referred to by themselves a few times in the Warren Commission.
Example: (Michael Paine) "I called her immediately getting back to the lab, so she would be watching and listening and getting clued in to the news, start watching the news." (Vol IX, p. 449)
And as that is the ONLY call listed on the FBI report between those numbers then that must be the call the "informant" is referring to.
This call got (deliberately?) obfuscated by Liebeler when he questioned Michael Paine.
Mr. Liebeler: "Now, there has been a report that on November 23, 1963 there was a telephone call between a man and a woman, between the numbers of your residence and the number of your office, in which the man was reported to have said in words or substance 'we both know who is responsible for the assassination.'
Have you been asked about this before?"
What reason did he have for saying 23rd November? Was that in the "informant" document? Is that document fully available anywhere?
From what I've read, this was actually an FBI wiretap, which is surprising if they had it in place by 11/23, and really disturbing if it was in place on 11/22 a half hour after the assassination. John Armstrong thinks that Liebeler deliberately confused the situation by placing the date on the 23rd.
It wouldn't surprise me if the FBI had the Paines' phone tapped for months before the assassination, considering their involvement with the Oswalds and their alleged leftist activities. This little report somehow ended up in WC document 206, which was declassified in 1976. The rest of the reports on the Paine wiretaps will probably never be released if they still exist.
31-08-2013, 09:42 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2013, 06:02 AM by Peter Lemkin.)
They are both still alive. So why has no one EVER put them under oath and penalty of perjury to ask them [among other things] "Who was it you both knew was responsible?!" I guess that is asking too much in the USA for a question related to the public murder of the most popular [with the People] and the most unpopular [with the Oligarchy] President, ever.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Peter Lemkin Wrote:They are both still alive. So why has no one EVER put them under oath and penalty of perjury to ask them [among other things] "Who was it you both knew was responsible?!" I guess that is asking to much in the USA for a question related to the public murder of the most popular [with the People] and the most unpopular [with the Oligarchy] President, ever.
It would be easy for them to deny they said it, in fact they already did to the WC.
The "informant" information would have to be shown to be credible.
Peter Lemkin Wrote:They are both still alive. So why has no one EVER put them under oath and penalty of perjury to ask them [among other things] "Who was it you both knew was responsible?!" I guess that is asking to much in the USA for a question related to the public murder of the most popular [with the People] and the most unpopular [with the Oligarchy] President, ever.
And in Stone's movie he used a different name for Ruth Paine - I forget the name he used.
