Sounds like the Paine's daughter knows something. I remember reading this account years ago when Steve sent it to me and my memory was that they did not offer a thing. That the ARRB did not talk to them is a huge failing. Sure they would have continued to lie but sometimes one can gleen some useful information through the lies.
Last I heard Ruth Paine was in a nursing home and her cognitive abilities were impaired.
Remember the Minox camera incident. Michael told Posner that the Minox and its film belonged to him: "Those are my pictures. I remember taking them. And I had that camera since the 1950s." Right, because every defense industry engineer needs an expensive camera with special film that can't be developed at the corner drug store.
Don't forget Buddy Walthers' discovery of the filing cabinets full of names of Castro sympathizers.
Stone should have used their real names and let them sue for libel. Get their asses on the stand under oath and cross-examine them. A libel case would have been totally different than testifying before the WC.
Dawn Meredith Wrote:Sounds like the Paine's daughter knows something. I remember reading this account years ago when Steve sent it to me and my memory was that they did not offer a thing. That the ARRB did not talk to them is a huge failing. Sure they would have continued to lie but sometimes one can gleen some useful information through the lies.
Last I heard Ruth Paine was in a nursing home and her cognitive abilities were impaired.
Dawn
That is at least a small hope that after the parents die, the son and daughter might come forward and say, "Yeah, mom and dad worked for US intelligence all their lives. We saw lots of former CIA people at their funerals."
Phil Dragoo Wrote:Attachment is New Evidence Regarding Ruth and Michael Paine by Steven Jones
John, you commented
It would have been interesting if he used their real names.
It would have been an instant lawsuit.
Was it Michael's mother who was great friends with Dulles' mistress.
Was it Ruth's sister who was an employee of the CIA.
Were they not, as noted, given a pass on the enormously significant wiretapped comment.
Could Oswald have been framed without the post-mortem cornucopia of inculpatory evidence to emanate from the Paine household.
It proved to be more fruitful with every search.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5200[/ATTACH]
Yes, but lawsuits have a strange way of opening up a whole lot of other information - they couldn't have afforded to chance all that would have come out - it might have blown up the whole case against LHO - too bad we will never know.
Phil Dragoo Wrote:The most essential function of the Paines was Ruth's just happening to have a friend with news of an opening at the Texas School Book Depository
The Warren-Posner-Bugliosi-Hanks Kool-Aid requires an all-consuming thirst unfettered by any sensitivity to over-coincidentalization
And the second most essential function was whatever game or magic trick was happening under the blanket in the garage - that the Police came to conclude was a rifle - when Oswald claimed [it seems correctly] he did not own one and certainly NOT the M-C cum Mauser that was found where he didn't shoot from. It was ordered FOR HIM - he never ordered it - and by law and logic never could have been delivered to a P.O. Box, anyway. Someone else did his rifle practice for him; someone [actually many someones] did 'his' shooting for him on the big day in the big D. The whole thing from start to end, and up to this day with: a massive propaganda [lies] cover-up / falsification of evidence / selective use of evidence and witnesses / destruction of and altering of evidence and witness statements / injections of new false evidence and witnesses / threatening and murder of witnesses / destruction of and withholding of evidence and documentation / lies and damn lies / no real investigations - only false and controlled ones....and on and on.....the Paine's played their role; and while I believe firmly they had a general idea before; by a few hours after the murder they certainly knew the whole general plan...and kept their intel mouths shut or lied/misled. They were only one of Oswald's controllers and babysitters - there were so many others - visible and invisible.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Deputy Harry Weatherford and Deputy J. L. Oxford to go to a house at 25115 West 5th Street in Irving, Texas and met some officers from Capt. Will Fritz' office. We arrived at location and met detective Rose and Adamcik from the Homicide division of the Dallas Police Department. Upon getting to the residence, we were met by Mrs. Michael Payne and upon showing our credentials and advising her who we were, she stated, "It's about the President being shot, Weve been expecting it. Come on in". She informed us that the lady standing beside her was Mrs. Oswald. Mrs. Payne went on to explain that Mrs. Oswald spoke only Russian, however, he would help interpret as she spoke both English and Russian. Upon asking if suspect Oswald lived at this location, she advised that his wife and children lived there, but that Lee Oswald and his wife had been separated and he did not live there. Mrs. Payne gave us permission to search the house or do anything we wanted to and she also, through interpretation, gave us Mrs. Oswald's permission to do the same. Mrs. Payne then gave us a telephone number and stated that was the phone number of Lee Oswald, however, she advised she did not know an address where he was staying. At this time, I called Sheriff Decker and advised him of this and he criss-crossed this telephone number and gave us an address of 1026 North Beckley. He advised he would dispatch other officers to cover this address. About this time, Mr. Michael Payne came to this location. Mr. Payne works at Bell Helicopter Plant. When told of the incident, Mr. Payne did not seem at all surprised, and merely stated that he had just taken off and had come home, when he heard that the President had been shot. It was then learned that Mr. Payne had also been separated from Mrs. Payne and that he has been living in Grand Prairie. Mr. Payne gave no explanation for coming to his house in Irving, Texas.
Upon searching this house we found stacks of hand bills concerning "Cuba for Freedom" advertising, seeking publicity and support for Cuba. Also found was a set of metal file cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers. All of this evidence was confiscated and turned over to Captain Fritz of the Dallas Police Department and Secret Service Officers at the City Hall.
[/URL][URL="http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/walther1.htm"]
[/URL] So, there we have the Paines with metal file cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers--not Lee Oswald, as she told the officers, "he did not live there"--
Now we have the Secret Service advising Marina to stay away from Ruth Paine:
In New Orleans grand jury testimony, Marina Oswald stated that the Secret Service warned her to stay away from Ruth Paine, who was "sympathizing with the CIA. She wrote letters over there..."
What has been corroborated beyond any doubt is that Ruth has immediate family members who were employed by the CIA. Documents have been located at the Archives showing that her sister was a staff psychologist for the CIA as of 1961 and that her father had been approached by the Agency to run an educational co-operative alliance in Vietnam in 1957. Though refusing to admit that she herself ever had anything to do with the CIA, she admitted to her friend that her father had been in their employment. She said that while working as an insurance executive for Nationwide Insurance, and later for the Agency for International Development, her father had often gathered intelligence for the CIA. But she was quick to add that he would never have done so if "he had known what the CIA was really all about." By this she meant that her father was serving in the capacity of a genuine patriotic, anti-Communist fervor and did not really understand how the CIA used such intelligence gathering to undermine local economies and suppress indigenous people so that American corporations could move in and exploit local cheap labor. The fact that Ruth understands this showed that she was quite attuned to the motivations, methods, and purposes of the Central Intelligence Agency.
The one and only time Ruth showed any cracks at all regarding the assassination itself was when she was having a difficulties with her now 40-year-old daughter. With tears in her eyes, Ruth stated that her daughter did not want to speak to her any more until she came to grips with "the evil that I have been associated with in my life." When the friend gently pushed further and asked, "What evil?" Ruth clammed up. But the friend assured me that she was convinced this was a veiled reference to the Kennedy assassination and that Ruth was not talking strictly about Lee Oswald. The friend firmly believes this because the comment was made in the context of a brief discussion about the assassination.
~ ~ ~
If Ruth Pain is an agent, and I still firmly believe she is, she is a damn good one.
Vincent Salandria once told me that the Paines, whether unwitting or not, played a key role in the assassination conspiracy by getting Oswald into the Texas School Book Depository. The conspirators knew that the people they chose for such a vital role had to be rock solid individuals who would never crack.
After my experience with Ruth Paine's friend, I would have to say that Salandria was absolutely right.
Mickey and Minnie the Dope: and as Garrison found out, their tax records and the documents on Michael's family are sealed.
Michael's mother and stepfather were close friends of Mary Bancroft, Allen Dulles' mistress and OSS contact to the Valkyrie plot. Dulles cracked that certain people would get excited if they knew he was in Dallas weeks before the assassination (he spoke to the Dallas Council on World Affairs October 28 as the author of the Craft of Intelligence). And, surprise surprise, he would sit on the commission to frame the lone nut, using a book hyped by an editor friend in an editorial at the time of the assassination.
Though he was fired by Kennedy, he would arrange to have the patsy in place, and himself on the star chamber, then tut-tut that people don't read.
While shouting at Lifton that the head could be spinning in circles, later to mock "that little Kennedy. . .he thought he was a god"
Upon searching this house we found stacks of hand bills concerning "Cuba for Freedom" advertising, seeking publicity and support for Cuba. Also found was a set of metal file cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers. All of this evidence was confiscated and turned over to Captain Fritz of the Dallas Police Department and Secret Service Officers at the City Hall.
He changed this in front of the Warren Commission:
Mr. WALTHERS: You could tell it from the way it was tied and the impression of where that barrel went up in it where it was tied, that a rifle had been tied in it, but what kind---you couldn't tell, but you could tell a rifle had been wrapped up in it, and then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves.
Mr. LIEBELER. About how many of them would you think there were?
Mr. WALTHERS. There were six or seven, I believe, and I put them all in the trunk of my car and we also found a box of pictures, a bunch of pictures that we taken. We didn't go to the trouble of looking at any of this stuff much---just more or less confiscated it at the time, and we looked at it there just like that, and then we took all this stuff and put it in the car and then Mrs. Paine got a phone number from Mrs. Oswald where you could call Lee Harvey Oswald in Oak Cliff...
then later...
Mr. WALTHERS. ...They were all put in the cars and we took them to Capt. Will Fritz' office along with the stuff we had confiscated, the files and the blanket and the other stuff, and I turned them over to Captain Fritz and left them and went back to my station.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets?
Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them?
Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.
Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?
Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day.
Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel.
Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted.
You got to love Liebelers leading of the witness right at the end there.
Also "Some story has developed"???? That was no story... that was Buddy Walthers OWN REPORT.
Walthers never said in the original report where exactly the cabinets were found or who they belonged to.
