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+--- Thread: Evaluating the Case against LBJ (/thread-9776.html)
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - Vasilios Vazakas - 25-08-2012
Adele Edisen Wrote:Vasilios,
When exactly did Dulles visit LBJ at his ranch? I must have missed that in your article.
Adele
We did not include this info in the article, but Phil has provided the source from "certain arrogance"
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - Phil Dragoo - 25-08-2012
According to Jim DiEugenio the reference appears in the First Edition on page 230:
In light of the BancroftPaine relationship, I have always found the following
quote by and about Dulles to be interesting and provocative: "Dulles joked in
private that the [JFK] conspiracy buffs would have had a field day if they had
known … he had actually been in Dallas three weeks before the murder … that
one of Mary Bancroft's childhood friends had turned out to be a landlady for
Marina Oswald … and that the landlady was a well-known leftist with distant
ties to the family of Alger Hiss." (Evica, p. 230) Dulles had a weird sense of humor:
to some, those facts are no laughing matter.
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v6n1/v6n1dieugenio7.pdf
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - Peter Lemkin - 25-08-2012
Phil Dragoo Wrote:According to Jim DiEugenio the reference appears in the First Edition on page 230:
In light of the BancroftPaine relationship, I have always found the following
quote by and about Dulles to be interesting and provocative: "Dulles joked in
private that the [JFK] conspiracy buffs would have had a field day if they had
known … he had actually been in Dallas three weeks before the murder … that
one of Mary Bancroft's childhood friends had turned out to be a landlady for
Marina Oswald … and that the landlady was a well-known leftist with distant
ties to the family of Alger Hiss." (Evica, p. 230) Dulles had a weird sense of humor:
to some, those facts are no laughing matter.
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v6n1/v6n1dieugenio7.pdf
No laughing matter at all!
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - Dawn Meredith - 25-08-2012
One minor criticism. No NAMED fingerprint "experts" disputed the match made by Nathan Darby. Glen Sample himself traveled to Austin and met with Nathan, before his death, and was shown the match and agreed. Once you actually see it it becomes very clear.
Otherwise I liked the piece a lot.
Dawn
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - Dawn Meredith - 25-08-2012
Oh and on the TMWKK, regarding the Liggett matter. It was not only Billie sol who provided information to Turner on this, the late Jay Harrison did as well. In many interviews.
Dawn
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - Adele Edisen - 25-08-2012
Phil Dragoo Wrote:According to Jim DiEugenio the reference appears in the First Edition on page 230:
In light of the BancroftPaine relationship, I have always found the following
quote by and about Dulles to be interesting and provocative: "Dulles joked in
private that the [JFK] conspiracy buffs would have had a field day if they had
known … he had actually been in Dallas three weeks before the murder … that
one of Mary Bancroft's childhood friends had turned out to be a landlady for
Marina Oswald … and that the landlady was a well-known leftist with distant
ties to the family of Alger Hiss." (Evica, p. 230) Dulles had a weird sense of humor:
to some, those facts are no laughing matter.
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v6n1/v6n1dieugenio7.pdf
Phil, thank you for your reply and explanation, based on the reference in assassinationresearch.com article.
I have a problem with this because according to other information I have, LBJ presumably was not at his ranch three weeks before the assassination.
According to Horace Busby, author of THE THIRTY-FIRST OF MARCH, LBJ left Washington on November 10, 1963, twelve days before the assassination, to go to his ranch in Texas, which is not very far from San Antonio, but is a much longer distance from Dallas, to work on the only fund-raising affair of the Presidential Texas trip to encourage Democrats to attend the gala in Austin, Texas, on the evening of Friday, November 22, 1963 (which did not occur because of the tragedy that day).
Horace Busby was a speech-writer for LBJ, and his confidante, who had been with him since Johnson had been elected as Representative to the House of Representatives. He wrote two speeches for LBJ in which LBJ declined to run for the presidency, the first was in 1967 which Johnson had in his pocket, but did not deliver then, and his speech delivered on the 31st of March, 1968, just two weeks after Robert Kennedy finally announced his run for the presidency after a year or so of indecision.
Dulles may have visited Dallas three weeks before the assassination (to check out the landscape of the assassination-to-be?), but he would not have found LBJ at his ranch.
Adele
Thank you, Larry, for the date correction. 1963 is always on my mind.
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - Phil Dragoo - 25-08-2012
Adele
The photo date is in dispute. It may have been taken in 1960.
Dulles' visit to Ruth Paine was something he mentioned.
I don't insist Dulles went to LBJ's ranch in November 1963.
He was, however, in Dallas, and in typical AWD fashion, treats that cavalierly.
In the overall scheme of things we have a long view, at least a century to consider, from WW I to the present.
LBJ cannot stand on the manure mound of national shame for a day in 1963 and claim it.
POTUS himself would scoff, "You didn't build that. Someone else made that happen."
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - David Healy - 25-08-2012
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:http://www.ctka.net/2012/Evaluating_the_Case_against_Lyndon_Johnson.html
Well, the DPF crew chimes in on LBJ as the mastermind of the plot.
excellent article....
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - Adele Edisen - 25-08-2012
Phil Dragoo Wrote:Adele
The photo date is in dispute. It may have been taken in 1960.
Dulles' visit to Ruth Paine was something he mentioned.
I don't insist Dulles went to LBJ's ranch in November 1963.
He was, however, in Dallas, and in typical AWD fashion, treats that cavalierly.
In the overall scheme of things we have a long view, at least a century to consider, from WW I to the present.
LBJ cannot stand on the manure mound of national shame for a day in 1963 and claim it.
POTUS himself would scoff, "You didn't build that. Someone else made that happen."
Phil,
I was asking Vasilios about Dulles at LBJ's ranch, and you gave that reference, so I was answering you, but not really, because I was making a general response to the reference. It wasn't your claim that Dulles had been at LBJ's ranch in November, 1963. In 1960, which seems a more reasonable date for that photo, Dulles had been Director of the CIA, and had not yet been responsible for the Bay of Pigs fiasco in 1961, which led to his leaving the CIA. And also, remember LBJ later spoke of the CIA as "Murder, Inc.", so it's unlikely he would have cottoned up to Dulles after that.
The latter part of 1960 was when JFK and LBJ were running in the election campaigns all over the country. Maybe he met with LBJ in 1960 at his ranch after the election to give him information about the CIA's activities in Cuba and elsewhere, as he also did with John Kennedy since they were now in office after the November elections. I assume he wanted to keep his job as Director of the CIA at that time.
But in 1963, maybe Dulles was just visiting his oil millionaire friends in Dallas who had backed the black operations and subversions in oil-rich foreign countries under cover of anti-communist activities. Or maybe he was visiting, besides Ruth Paine, the White Russian community members in Dallas who had ended up playing a role in the JFK assassination. Weren't George De Mohrenschildt and Dalton Moore (of the CIA) living in Dallas in 1963?
I understand that Dulles (and maybe McCloy, too) literally begged to be put on the Warren Commission (to protect their Wall Street clientele? Dr. Donald Gibson said the Warren Commission should be called the Dulles-McCloy or McCloy-Dulles Commission because they controlled it).
Johnson had to give his good friend, Senator Richard Russell, the "Johnson treatment" (strong persuasion) to try to convince him to be on it. I think Johnson did this to have some way of knowing what was going on during its term. Russell never accepted the conclusion that Oswald was responsible for the death of Kennedy, and Johnson had agreed with him in private talks. When Russell wanted his strong dissent published in the Report of the Commission, and Justice Warren had so promised him, Russell blew up in fury when it had not been done. Remember that a Nazi historian, one of Hitler's 26 historians, who was brought to the US by the US Army and CIA through the Paperclip Operations after WWII, was the Editor of the Report. Who's orders would he have followed?
With three dissenters, Representatives Hale Boggs, Senator Sherman Cooper, and Senator Richard Russell, there certainly should have been a Minority Report added to the Report of the Warren Commission. What else was being hidden? I guess we've been finding that out over these almost fifty years.
Quote:In the overall scheme of things we have a long view, at least a century to consider, from WW I to the present.
We sure do, Phil.
Adele
Evaluating the Case against LBJ - Jim DiEugenio - 25-08-2012
From Adele's information, that sounds correct. If LBJ left Washington on November 10th to do prep for a fundraiser for JFK, then its unlikely he left the previous weekend also.
But, of course, that would not be necessary in this aspect.
It would seem to be necessary for certain other aspects.