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+--- Thread: Coup Underway in Turkey (/thread-14862.html)
Coup Underway in Turkey - David Guyatt - 18-07-2016
Peter Lemkin Wrote:David Guyatt Wrote:It clearly was a CIA backed coup.
Dave, come on!....when has the CIA ever backed or fomented a coup?!::
Whoever plotted the coup [such as the CIA and that ilk] will NOT put up with 6-7000 of their best boys being executed or put in prison for life.....I think Sybel is correct and this was just testing the waters for the 'BIG ONE' which will be soon....before people get executed or put in prison and tortured. Sadly, as usual, it is the average Turkish citizen that looses in the end no matter how this plays out. Those that came out into the streets [and many of whom died] did NOT do it for Erdogan, but for Turkey.....
I see on the MSM now they are really playing up the danger of nukes in Turkey and removal of them ASAP. This is the beginning of a very bad series of events....AND this will mean things in Syria will only get worse - yes Turkey played both sides of the 'war', but they were also the only means of access for aide workers and food, etc. All that will soon end. The consequences of this will be HUGE and effect all of NATO and Europe and the World. IMHO.
Could be. I would recommend reading the Wiliam Engdahl Q & A I published on my blog earlier (linked above - scroll t the bottom of the "Regime Change in Turkey" page) which has a different slant to it. Erdogan has made a deal with Russia, Israel and Syria, that's why the US and CIA rushed the coup -- and cocked it up in the process because of rushed planning. And Erdogan knew of it in advance anyway and played it. Erdogan's Turkey seems to be realigning itself away from the US and NATO - hence the cold shoulder he got at the Warsaw Summit earlier in the month that I mentioned earlier in this thread.
Engdahl's view also is that Brexit really has caused a tectonic geopolitical shift and that the EU - the USA's project on the Continent - is now doomed. Speculation by Thierry Meyssan at Voltaire (The Twilight of NATO) suggests that NATO is going to fold and that the UK is slowly and gently realigning itself too, with it's future eyes on China.
Major, major changes are happening around us at an incredibly fast speed. Following Brexit, the whole of British politics has been completely churned and is up in the air. The Labour Party is almost certainly set to split apart - which may not be a bad thing at all, as the neoliberal Blairites will leave and it will turn back to its socialist roots, giving those masses of disenfranchised voters a voice once again. Blair, Brown and others like Neil Kinnock in the New Labour hijack were the tools of the CIA and MI6 (see HERE) anyway, and their day will hopefully soon be done with. Meanwhile, Blair's reputation following the Chilcot Report (to my astonishment) has been shredded to pieces. The entire British press turned on him with a vengeance. The guy is now a pariah in the UK.
We are witnessing amazing changes...
Coup Underway in Turkey - Tracy Riddle - 18-07-2016
It was hysterical on Friday night to watch Robert Baer bragging about all the coups he has been involved in, and how they just weren't doing this one right.
Damn darkies, won't those people ever get it right!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cia-officials-turkey-coup-advice_us_578a2d02e4b08608d334c32c
Oh, for the good old days ― when the CIA regularly assisted military coups d'états in foreign democracies.
Several former spooks appearing on CNN Friday night to discuss the attempted military coup in Turkey had more than a few pointers for the seemingly amateurish military officers leading the takeover efforts. And at least one contributor seemed more disappointed in their performance than relieved that the coup has thus far failed to topple a democratically elected government.
Leading the pack was Robert Baer, a veteran former CIA officer and author ― and, apparently, a former coup participant.
Baer told CNN anchor Anderson Cooper that the Turkish coup was "not professionally done."
Coup Underway in Turkey - Drew Phipps - 18-07-2016
Erdogan and Sybel want to blame the CIA for the "coup", but I just don't see this as a covert act of a formidable (some people say "all powerful") state intelligence agency, especially the CIA, that has (to the US's considerable shame) a string of successful coups to their credit. If the CIA can topple governments seemingly at will, how can you then assert that, in this case, they didn't have the foresight or the ability to a) find a single pilot that would pull the trigger on Erdogan's plane, b) shut off international communications, c) equip riot gear, water cannons, or tear gas, d) find troops that would hold a bridge or an airport, e) secure some sort of international recognition of the new government (instead of a US pledge of support for the old government), or f) do really anything at all in a competent manner?
Sorry, this isn't a covert act of the US government. It may be designed to appear superficially to look like one, but the complete and utter failure of the "coup" to really accomplish anything at all (besides justify a purge of certain military officers and their men) or mount a credible threat of any kind, leads only to one reasonable conclusion: It was pure theater. Remember the Reichstag?
Coup Underway in Turkey - Magda Hassan - 18-07-2016
David Guyatt Wrote:......
We are witnessing amazing changes...
Indeed we are.
Tracy Riddle Wrote:It was hysterical on Friday night to watch Robert Baer bragging about all the coups he has been involved in, and how they just weren't doing this one right.
Damn darkies, won't those people ever get it right!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cia-officials-turkey-coup-advice_us_578a2d02e4b08608d334c32c
Oh, for the good old days ― when the CIA regularly assisted military coups d'états in foreign democracies.
Several former spooks appearing on CNN Friday night to discuss the attempted military coup in Turkey had more than a few pointers for the seemingly amateurish military officers leading the takeover efforts. And at least one contributor seemed more disappointed in their performance than relieved that the coup has thus far failed to topple a democratically elected government.
Leading the pack was Robert Baer, a veteran former CIA officer and author ― and, apparently, a former coup participant.
Baer told CNN anchor Anderson Cooper that the Turkish coup was "not professionally done."
::face.palm:: ::rofl:: ::puppet::
Drew Phipps Wrote:Erdogan and Sybel want to blame the CIA for the "coup", but I just don't see this as a covert act of a formidable (some people say "all powerful") state intelligence agency, especially the CIA, that has (to the US's considerable shame) a string of successful coups to their credit. If the CIA can topple governments seemingly at will, how can you then assert that, in this case, they didn't have the foresight or the ability to a) find a single pilot that would pull the trigger on Erdogan's plane, b) shut off international communications, c) equip riot gear, water cannons, or tear gas, d) find troops that would hold a bridge or an airport, e) secure some sort of international recognition of the new government (instead of a US pledge of support for the old government), or f) do really anything at all in a competent manner?
Sorry, this isn't a covert act of the US government. It may be designed to appear superficially to look like one, but the complete and utter failure of the "coup" to really accomplish anything at all (besides justify a purge of certain military officers and their men) or mount a credible threat of any kind, leads only to one reasonable conclusion: It was pure theater. Remember the Reichstag?
I think that's the point Drew. It was largely theatre. But who was the director? Script writer? Producer? BTW the international communications were shut down. I had a friend there who told us as such. Even Erdogan could only manage a Facetime interview with the journalist. There are always the free speech activists who help keep the lines of communication happening too. But by and large it was shut down during the coup.
Coup Underway in Turkey - Drew Phipps - 19-07-2016
CNN Turkey kept broadcasting 24/7, albeit an empty studio. AFAIK, only the state TV station was actually shut down for any period of time. In a real coup you'd see the power cut to these TV studios, at a minimum.
We have contributors here who tell us that the CIA is interfering with their internet access, on a daily basis, for no apparent reason. And the NSA listens to us all, 24/7, according to Snowden. Are you suggesting that the US government, with all its power, couldn't keep Erdogan, the putative "Ace of Spades" of this "coup," from accessing the internet?
I respectfully disagree. I couldn't tell you who is actually directing this particular farce, but I'd bet money on Erdogan.
Coup Underway in Turkey - Peter Lemkin - 19-07-2016
I think it is too early to tell for sure what went on...though we begin to see the outlines in the shadows. Some thoughts...
- Not all CIA blessed or run coups have succeeded - or done so fully.
- A seemingly failed coup could have been the plan by someone.
- I could have been badly planned, penetrated and allowed to go forward and fail due to the penetration, LIHOP, or false flag - or a mix.
- I think the reaction of ordinary Turkish citizens played a larger role than acknowledged - they just don't want anyone's coup from any direction to any end. They want democracy and not military rule nor dictatorship by anyone.
- It is possible a 'well planned' coup was moved up in date and thus failed - but highly unlikely.
- Certain aspects of what happened can only have been 'theater'.
- I sense that these events will have much larger/broader geopolitical impacts than most think - and I agree that this will realign or cause the restructuring of NATO and EU, among many other changes on the World stage.
- Turkey, while greatly ignored is a big nation, with a strong economy, and great geostrategic importance. This is no light-weight event in an unimportant nation.
- I think elements of the various 'schools of thought' on who was behind this and why might all be partly correct.
- We are not being told the full truth of what happened yet by anyone.
- I agree that the most puzzling part is the failure for the 'coup' to at least put up a real fight and for it to seemingly collapse so quickly and so many be arrested so easily. In this lies the keys to what really happened, I think.
- I'll bet that many of those arrested were used by someone and will be sacrificed for other's ambitions and plans.
- I'm leaning toward Edmond's analysis at this point, but entertain the others as possible corrections or alternatives.
- This is not going to just 'go away'...this will be a pivotal event for decades to come....and this may have only have been Act I.
- Turkey has just been destabilized and will remain so for a long time.
- The World has taken a step toward being less stable with this event in ways not yet fully clear. This may have been the real idea behind the event. I'd expect in a few years the Middle East to look completely different and with more suffering and wars.
- Things for the Syrians will get much worse quickly.
- Things, especially freedoms, for the average Turk will get worse.
- Keep an eye on who benefited, and I think in the long run it will not be Erdogan - though he acts now as the beneficiary. His end will come sooner than later.
- In some way the Russian - USA tensions play into this event....and they will increase.
Coup Underway in Turkey - David Guyatt - 19-07-2016
A post this morning from Pepe Escobar's FB page:
Quote:TURKEY, NATO AND HELPLESS KERRY
What Kerry said about Turkey and NATO IS being widely interpreted across Turkey, from the AKP leadership to all shades of nationalists, as a dead giveaway the US, or some US intel ops, being directly involved in the coup - as its allies are being arrested. And this is supported by Erdogan's PM threat that any country that supports Gulen is at war with Turkey - as Ankara is already demanding Gulen's head. Washington's ability to control the Turkish military IS vanishing - as most of its assets are being purged. No wonder the State Dept. is freaking out.
Coup Underway in Turkey - David Guyatt - 19-07-2016
Two further essays by Alexander Dugin on the failed US coup attempt as a result of Erdogan's realignment towards Russia and away from the US.
Why The Failed Turkish Coup Attempt Wasn't A "False Flag" Power Grab By Erdogan
PRO-AMERICAN COUP IN TURKEY
Quote:[URL="http://katehon.com/node/34947#"]Washington's Hand
[/URL]The military coup has obvious geopolitical implications. It comes after a sharp reversal in the direction of the relations of Turkey and Russia and changes on the Syrian issue made by the country's leaders . On last eve Binali Yildirim said that Turkey intends to restore relations with official Damascus. In essence, this would mean a radical change of the whole geopolitical situation on the Syrian issue and the collapse of the US strategy in the region. Before that Erdogan removed Ahmet Davutoglu from the country's leadership. US realized that Erdogan decided to change the geopolitical course. United States decided to act and use their networks of influence in military circles, to initiate a coup.
We should expect reprisals against both the opposition, in favor of strengthening ties with Russia and Syria, as well as functionaries of the ruling party "Justice and Development". The pro-Russian course will be frozen.
Coup Underway in Turkey - Drew Phipps - 19-07-2016
I certainly appreciate Alexander Dugin's acknowledgement of why the false flag theory is reasonable. What I do not agree with is that post-"coup" events constitute proof of pre-"coup" involvement, the same way that the Warren Commission Report did not "prove" the lone nut theory. There are too many opportunistic motives and opportunities to advance a particular agenda, after an event, to declare that those events constitute proof of sponsorship before the event. I believe that the writer of that article concedes the point.
Public statements (cited by the writer) condemning the US for housing Gulen strike me as precisely on point: Gulen was housed here before. Erdogan condemned the US for that before. Now, Gulen is housed here, and Erdogan (and/or his ministers) condemns the US. What changed? Nothing. Now, if Gulen had suddenly appeared in Turkey during the coup, that would be convincing evidence of US involvement.
The isolation of the US base by Erdogan is not proof of US involvement in the coup. Perhaps the writer is correct, that this event signals a wider change in Erdogan's foreign policies; but, if true, then that suggests to me that Erdogan simply had more in mind than purging his military when the "coup" began. In fact, declaring the "coup" is a casis belli for a dramatic change in policy could be more evidence that Erdogan stage managed the whole thing (with the careful proviso that comparing "pre-" and "post-" statements and actions is fraught with the danger of inaccuracy - see my first paragraph).
Last I note that the writer of that article is listed as "Andrew Korybko" not Alexander Dugin, but I don't know enough about either to compare pen names.
Coup Underway in Turkey - Peter Lemkin - 19-07-2016
Now up to 30-40,000 have been arrested or fired from their jobs - with MANY more coming. This is a purge of all opponents or perceived opponents of the current government and its bully would-be dictator ruler [even if elected]. He just fired all deans of all universities and colleges for reasons not even clear. He is cleaning house and will put in all positions his own crew. The cries for re-instituting the death penalty are growing...I think this will get very ugly indeed. Turkish prisons have long been known for cruel treatment and torture. There has been NO legal process for any of these arrests or firings and none are yet planned. A spokesmen when asked about that pointed to the USA not using any legal process in Guantanamo nor in its war on terror. Can't argue with that.
I think Turkey will look a lot more like present day Egypt in a few weeks. Sad.