Dawn Meredith Wrote:

James H. Fetzer Wrote:A member of Scholars some time back did a study of the nineteen passengers who allegedly made calls from the planes (which David Ray Griffin has now shown were all faked) in relation to the Social Security Death Index and the 9/11 Survivors Fund. Only one of their names appeared on the index and none of their survivors had secured money from the fund.

Ted Olson, our former Solicitor General, has observed that he could think of infinitely many reasons for the government to lie to the people. Even the FBI has confirmed that none of the alleged calls from Barbara. There was a flurry of reports at one point of her having been arrested in Europe, but I was not intrigued by her story at that point in time and did not follow them.

I have done programs on the alleged "witnesss" in New York and at the Pentagon, which turn out to be virtually worthless. The first was with Andrew Johnson of the UK, who studied the 500 witness reports that The New York Times has collated. The second was a three-part series, with Mike Sparks, who evaluates equipment that companies are proposing be purchased by the military.

He is quite a brilliant guy and you can find those interviews archived on my radio program at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com. He is inclined to believe that the woman Olson has now married--one "Lady Booth"--may actually be Barbara after undergoing plastic surgery, a conjecture we are attempting to check out.

I sent a couple of links about the passengers, but if the flights were faked, then of course the passengers were faked, too. The attitudes of survivors of the plane passengers is completely different than of the WTC victims. Uniike the WTC victims, they seem to have almost no interest in the case and don't want to be bothered--with the exception of a small band which is pursuing justice in the court in New York.

There the situation is quite bizarre. Judge Hellerstein, who has played a key roll in all the post-9/11 legal proceedings, reversed judicial procedure to have damages considered before liability, which is absurd. Awards are a function of (percentage of) liability times damages, but it appears as if he does not want the airlines to have to testify.

There has been no NTSB investigation of any of these crashes. The initial manifests released by CNN on 9/11 not only show no names of any of the alleged terrorists but no Arabic names. They have subsequently been subject to manipulation, as the last two links I originally provided show. So we don't really know but the situation is extremely odd.

Several years ago while abord a flight to PA there was a newspaper article that listed and gave brief descriptions of all the dead. Both in the planes and in the buildings. As well as commentary from relatives. At dinner last night my attorney husband told me that the victims were compensated. (Except of course the ones who are fighting for justice and would not be paid off to keep quiet)
I agree the situation is beyond "odd". Like "finding" Atta's passport laying on the ground. That was my first clue that this was not what it appeared to be. So of the 19 "callers" they don't show up as even dead on Social Security lists? (Except one). That is most troubling. But is Tod (sp) Beamer's wife just a liar? Certainly the "call" from the son to the mother giving his full name was not at all credible. "You believe me don't you Mom?" And the Judge's behavior is also most odd. Perhaps he and the airlines stitulated to of liability, leaving only the question of damages. Something I have never seen, but the only civil law I do is child protective services.
Dawn

Jack White Wrote:.....If there were no planes, witnesses could not have seen planes. There
is no forensic evidence of planes.

Jack

Malcolm Pryce Wrote:Peter

I too have noted the hostility of those who defend the official narrative.

I think it’s because they feel threatened. Not physically, of course, but deep down in foundations of their souls. Our political leaders are surrogate parents who feed us the notion since birth that they are the guys in white hats. You challenge that axiom at your peril.

People will believe almost anything rather than look into that particular abyss.

How else could you dig a hole in a field in Shanksville and convince people it was an air crash?

Scary.

James H. Fetzer Wrote:I have done programs on the alleged "witnesss" in New York and at the Pentagon, which turn out to be virtually worthless. The first was with Andrew Johnson of the UK, who studied the 500 witness reports that The New York Times has collated. The second was a three-part series, with Mike Sparks, who evaluates equipment that companies are proposing be purchased by the military.

He is quite a brilliant guy and you can find those interviews archived on my radio program at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com. He is inclined to believe that the woman Olson has now married--one "Lady Booth"--may actually be Barbara after undergoing plastic surgery, a conjecture we are attempting to check out.

I sent a couple of links about the passengers, but if the flights were faked, then of course the passengers were faked, too. The attitudes of survivors of the plane passengers is completely different than of the WTC victims. Unlike the WTC victims, they seem to have almost no interest in the case and don't want to be bothered--with the exception of a small band which is pursuing justice in the court in New York.

Helen Reyes Wrote:I haven't read this entire thread and probably won't. Personally I think remote-controlled military planes flew into the WTC and that a large plane flew over the Pentagon before it was hit by a tomahawk missile.

My real question is, is the John Lear mentioned above the same John Lear who appeared on John Judge's radio program with William Cooper when the latter two were travelling the country trying to sell the idea that Greer shot Kennedy? The Lear who flew drugs and arms during Iran/Contra, the son of the Lear of Lear jet fame...

EDIT: I read through the thread anyway, minus the links. Regarding possibly missing passengers in Cleveland/PA, see Operation Northwoods documents: they provided for removal of civilian passengers I guess.

One thing that caught my attn recently was a series of photos on cryptome.org of LANDING GEAR after the first "crash" at WTC, but over at the Greek Orthodox street. A wheel was embedded in WTC "wheat chex" material, lying across a street. The surrounding streets had been partially police-taped off and were full of bits of meat, blood and garbage.

From what I gathered, it would've been very strange for the wheel and wall section to make it to that location after the first crash. And why the concentration of supposedly human remains right there? There were no more plane parts there as far as I could see from the photos.

This also makes me wonder about all the people who allegedly jumped from the building. Did anyone get to do an autopsy on the more integral corpses? If someone was faking evidence by the Greek Orthodox church, couldn't they toss corpses out of windows as well? I find it suspicious because it is so graphic, and there is the story of the one Indian (or Sri Lankan) man who saw a plane approaching, hid under his desk and ended up on the next floor down, and escaped. If he didn't jump out a window, why did others? He would've been right there in the eye of the hurricane.

My approach to 9/11 is that I don't know what physically happened, that there is a conspiracy at work and I need to keep an open mind. I agree thermate can't explain the total collapse of WTC in itself, so am open to other ideas, DEWs, nukes, suitcase-nukes, exotic new weapons technologies.

I have to agree that if the "no planes" school of thought was supposed to discredit 9/11 truth, they've failed to spring the trap so far. Lear's presence on any side of the issue is troubling, if it's the same Lear I'm thinking of, and my guess would be that the operation in play isn't to discredit 9/11 truth but to divide and conquer through internal dissent.

Mike Rivero of whatreallyhappened.com basically calls "no-planes-at-the-Pentagon" people dupes but hasn't presented any good evidence there were planes, beyond his contention that he plays flight simulators and knows the manoeuvres were completely possible, plus he believes the black box data presented. Mike Rivero routinely gets facts wrong, though; last broadcast of his radio/internet show had him talking about the BCCI scandal, which he thought happened in the 1970s.

Kenn Thomas, who has a much longer parapolitics pedigree, also thinks "no-planes-at-the-Pentagon" is a distraction, based on his survey/interviews of eye-witnesses close to the time of the event. Did any of Thomas's witnesses see the plane hit, or did they just see it barrelling low along one of the streets up the hill? I don't know.