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+--- Thread: Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? (/thread-12956.html)
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 08-09-2014
Lots of folks have reviewed the bullet fragment/weight issue. I'm not going to rehash it all here. The weight of the allegedly recovered CE 399 (before samples were taken for neutron analysis) is just barely low enough (158.something grains IIRC, out of either 161 or 162 grains) to have contained the particles that were removed from Connally's wrist and thigh. Therein lies the rub: not all the fragments were dug out. Alas, nobody knows exactly how much metal Connally just learned to live with, or how much might have been left in his chest.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 08-09-2014
The density of skin (mostly black on an xray) is about 1050 kg/m3.
The density of sand is 1280 kg/m3. (Can't tell you what x ray color that might make, but its closer to black than white)
The density of bone is 1900 kg/m3 (mostly white on an xray)
The density of iron is 2600 kg/m3 (bright white on an xray)
The density of lead is over 11,000 kg/m3.
I sorta doubt that the tiny bright fragments are less dense than the bone upon which they lay.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 08-09-2014
Grrr..... Connally's clothing was on display in the Archives Building here in Austin in November but the exhibit is gone now. I'll call tomorrow and ask them where the exhibit went.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Bob Prudhomme - 08-09-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:The density of skin (mostly black on an xray) is about 1050 kg/m3.
The density of sand is 1280 kg/m3. (Can't tell you what x ray color that might make, but its closer to black than white)
The density of bone is 1900 kg/m3 (mostly white on an xray)
The density of iron is 2600 kg/m3 (bright white on an xray)
The density of lead is over 11,000 kg/m3.
I sorta doubt that the tiny bright fragments are less dense than the bone upon which they lay.
The matter that makes up bone may have a density of 1900 kg./m3 but, is it porous or solid? Would an x-ray of a rock (sand being merely very small rocks) show up as opaque and bright white, and appear similar to the lead fragments seen in the x-ray?
Cast iron actually has a density of 6800-7800 kg./m3, not 2600. A density of 2600 kg./m3 would be more applicable to aluminum. As we are comparing densities here, should lead have a different appearance in an x-ray than iron? For that matter, gold has a density of 19.3 (19,300 kg./m3) and platinum a density of 21.45 (21,450 kg./m3). Do they appear differently in x-rays than sand, lead and iron?
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 08-09-2014
I used the figure for iron oxide (least dense form of iron I could find). And I realize that is rust.
The more dense and object is, the brighter it will be. I suspect that they make the x-ray film most sensitive to densities within a medically useful range, so it is doubtful that you could distinguish between metals with an ordinary x-ray. Stuff that falls outside the medically useful range would either be black or white.
I got my density figures by google, if you want to replicate my work.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 08-09-2014
Bob: Your basic premise, that the "path of the bullet between arm bones from back to front (of hand) seems very unlikely", given the x-rays and the Zap evidence of the positioning of JBC's hands, seems to quite logical. However, what if the path (as described) is incorrect? What if the bullet enters the dorsal side of his arm, strikes the radius, breaks it "inward," deflects downward, and then exits the palmar side of the wrist without passing between the bones?
That appears to me to be consistent with the way he's holding the hat at frame 230 (although he would have to lower the hat a bit for it to be in the correct position at Z290 or thereabouts (where Connally said he was hit). His thumb is under the hat and his fingers are on top of it, presenting the dorsal aspect of his arm to the chest. It also seems possible that a fragment from that collision could then wind up in JBC's thigh.
If that were the case you might expect the entry and exit holes in the shirt to be somewhat closer together (than 180 degrees) and on the opposite side of the cuff from the cufflink holes (on the ulnar side of the wrist). I might be able to see the shirt and I want to know what to look for.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 08-09-2014
Caveat: I am not a doctor. I obtained the following information off the internet, the font of all useless information.
Here is an xray showing a collection of gallstones, which are large crystals formed from "sludge" in the gall bladder. The "sludge" looks like sand particles under a microscope.
The gallstones appear to be similar in color to the bone, which I suspect (in my layman's way) means that they have a similar density. There are apparently low density gallstones and high density gallstones. I am searching for approximate values.
" Gallstones vary in CT attenuation from fat density to calcium density" which I presume means that it wont be any brighter than bones, (made of calcium) https://www.inkling.com/read/fundamentals-diagnostic-radiology-brant-helms-4th/chapter-26/gallbladder
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Bob Prudhomme - 08-09-2014
Look again at z230:
This position is the only position in which Connally or anyone else can even get the back or dorsal aspect of his forearm close to facing the path of a bullet exiting his chest just below his right nipple.
However, unless Connally's nipples were up near his collar bone, which I seriously doubt, his wrist would have been too high in z230 to have been hit by the same bullet that transited his chest. Lowering the arm in future frames, as you suggest, has the effect of rotating the forearm forward, and presenting the side of the forearm to the path of the bullet.
The side of the radius bone was not hit by a bullet, it was the top of the radius the bullet struck.
P.S. The medical evidence shows the bullet passed between the radius and ulna bones, travelling from the back side of the arm to the palm side. It did not, as you suggest, pass through the radius bone.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Bob Prudhomme - 08-09-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:Caveat: I am not a doctor. I obtained the following information off the internet, the font of all useless information.
Here is an xray showing a collection of gallstones, which are large crystals formed from "sludge" in the gall bladder. The "sludge" looks like sand particles under a microscope.
The gallstones appear to be similar in color to the bone, which I suspect (in my layman's way) means that they have a similar density. There are apparently low density gallstones and high density gallstones. I am searching for approximate values.
" Gallstones vary in CT attenuation from fat density to calcium density" which I presume means that it wont be any brighter than bones, (made of calcium) https://www.inkling.com/read/fundamentals-diagnostic-radiology-brant-helms-4th/chapter-26/gallbladder
I'd be more curious to see what a rock looks like in an x-ray.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Bob Prudhomme - 08-09-2014
Here is an x-ray of a frog that ate nineteen rocks: