Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Printable Version +- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora) +-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Organizations and Cults (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-13.html) +--- Thread: Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan (/thread-2015.html) |
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Jan Klimkowski - 15-11-2009 Putting to one side the fact that LaRouche manages to contradict himself several times in the space of a few sentences, the central argument appears to be that "government-control" of healthcare will enable the American government to instruct doctors to kill people rather than heal them. The rationale for this, according to LaRouche, is "austerity" measures: "killing grandma" to pay off Wall Street's debts. This is a quite preposterous argument. But you appear to be making it here: Gary McGowan Wrote:Killing grandma (or a child with a life-threatening disease) in an attempt to pay for the "bailout" of an bankrupt casino which was said to be a reputable state-of-the-art world monetary financial system is the issue. The trillions (tens or hundreds of trillions?) in debt are unpayable. The financiers are controlling conditions all over the planet to keep their usurious game going. There is an entire directory of DPF threads exposing Wall Street's lies and criminal behaviour here: http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15 Suggesting that Obama wants to kill Americans to pay off Wall Street's criminal debts is just a ridiculous argument. In fact, the current American healthcare system, which Obama is attempting to reform, provides huge profits to Big Pharma, private hospitals and the Big Medical Insurance companies - all to the massive financial benefit of Wall Street. Examining the LaRouchies' argument, the corroboration they offer usually consists of a misrepresentation of the "Liverpool Care Pathway". There is a debate going on in the UK about physician-assisted voluntary euthanasia and/or removal of care for terminally ill patients in their last hours. This has nothing to do with the constructed LaRouchian bogeyman of government killing of grandma on behalf of Wall Street. Here is what the organization Care Not Killing published about the Liverpool Care Pathway in September 2009: Quote:15 September 2009http://www.carenotkilling.org.uk/?show=842 Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Magda Hassan - 16-11-2009 What is the La Rouche wish list for health care reform? Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Gary McGowan - 16-11-2009 Magda Hassan Wrote:What is the La Rouche wish list for health care reform? LaRouche Answers Obama's Challenge: ("What's your plan? What's your alternative? What do you plan to do for all those families whose medical bills are driving them into bankruptcy? ..." ) http://www.larouchepac.com/node/11055 The above video is only a minute and a half, and Mr. Obama gets more time than Mr. LaRouche, because the answer is short and sweet. 1. Eliminate HMOs. Hill Burton’ Hospital Principle [March, 2009]2. Fully restore the previous [U.S.] health care program [the Hill-Burton system]. 3. Implement a single-payer system to assist in the implimentation of the restored Hill-Burton system. Quote:The rebuilding effort can best be done in the spirit of the 1946 "Hospital Survey and Construction Act," which, for 25 years, built up the hospital and health-care system to high standards and accessibility. The nine-page law, often called the "Hill-Burton Act," after the bipartisan co-sponsors of the Act, Sens. Lister Hill (D-Ala.), and Harold Burton (R-Ohio), mandated Federal and local cooperation and funding, to see that the goal would be achieved of having a community hospital in every county, to guarantee hospital care to citizens: in rural counties at a ratio of 5.5 beds per 1,000 (sparsely settled regions require redundancy); and in urban areas, 4.5 beds per 1,000.from 4-pg PDF here. About the same text (I quoted only a portion above) is also here as html on a web page. Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - David Guyatt - 16-11-2009 Gary McGowan Wrote:I don't doubt or have argument with anything you say, David. I have also heard reports complementing the UK system by visitors to the UK. And thank you for the history/background. Thanks Gary. But there are still horrible and inaccurate "designer" flaws in the LaRouche statements. My mother is 86 and recently suffered a very nasty internal injury that brought her close to death. She was treated with great care by the NHS staff and is now back on her feet, hale and hearty. This was the second major operation she has had in the last two years. There were no "austerity measures" in her case. Likewise, my wife's mother died fairly recently from lung cancer. She choose not to be treated at 79 years of age. The NHS practitioners tried to convince her otherwise but, in the end, accepted her decision and were able to guide her nursing over her last few days with consideration and dignity. There were no "austerity measures" there either. I could go on and on with cases of friends and others who are elderly and who receive NHS help. The only austerity measures I have ever come across is the NHS food which is widely regarded as awful. Admittedly there are also not usually the nice comfy private hotel rooms that one gets in a private hospital. A member of our family who is a GP advises that anyone who benefits from private health insurance should certainly use it, but when it comes to major surgery or life threatening issues he repeatedly recommends patients to use the NHS as private hospitals do not have the staffing or expertise available to them and are not very effective at those levels and should be shunned for that reason alone. Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Gary McGowan - 16-11-2009 Linda Minor Wrote:He keeps talking about "they". Does he mean people at Harvard? Any ideas? "The British elites[/FONT]" and "The British imperial interests[/FONT]" would be the simply-put literal answer to your question, Linda. I'm quoting from an Aug. 17 article which sets all this in a strategic context from the LaRouche organization's point of view. (A web page, about 2-3 pages on paper) . Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Gary McGowan - 16-11-2009 Quote:"Suggesting that Obama wants to kill Americans to pay off Wall Street's criminal debts is just a ridiculous argument. In fact, the current American healthcare system, which Obama is attempting to reform, provides huge profits to Big Pharma, private hospitals and the Big Medical Insurance companies - all to the massive financial benefit of Wall Street."------------------------------ How about, "The Obama administration is protecting the HMOs." If you really want to bring down health care costs, make the HMOs illegal for starters. HMOs have nothing to do with health care. You want to know why health care costs are high? Because United Health Group has annual revenue of $81 billion. WellPoint, $61 billion. Aetna $31 billion. Umana $29 billion. . Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Jan Klimkowski - 16-11-2009 Here's Mr McGowan talking about the LaRouchie viewpoint: Gary McGowan Wrote:What they are saying is that the system has recently been subject to austerity measures affecting significantly large numbers of people who are judged as being close to death, and that those (fascist) austerity measures are being promulgated in the U.S.A. and many other countries. Gary McGowan Wrote:Killing grandma (or a child with a life-threatening disease) in an attempt to pay for the "bailout" of an bankrupt casino which was said to be a reputable state-of-the-art world monetary financial system is the issue. The trillions (tens or hundreds of trillions?) in debt are unpayable. The financiers are controlling conditions all over the planet to keep their usurious game going. Do you want to provide some sort of corroboration for LaRouche's inane claims that introducing the British system is fascism in action, leading to the killing of presumably a significant part of the population, to bailout Wall Street? As I wrote in previous posts, Wall Street already does very well out of the existing private healthcare system in America which disenfranchises millions of Americans. Btw one of the reasons most Brits are much more willing to pay income tax than most Americans is because we know a large chunk of our taxpayer money goes to funding universal healthcare. Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Gary McGowan - 17-11-2009 Quote:Wall Street already does very well out of the existing private healthcare system in America which disenfranchises millions of Americans.What Wall St. does should not be called "doing well." "Doing evil," I would accept. Wall Street is crime street. The U.S.A. needs a new Pecora commission to expose those crimes. I don't see how we can engage in discussion unless we can find some common ground. To that end: * Do we agree or not that Wall St. lobbying strongly influences legislation and U.S. domestic policy, and has done so for many decades? * Do we agree or not that the HMOs and Wall St. are strongly interconnected? * Do we agree or not that the HMOs are deeply involved in hedge fund operations and derivatives markets? * Do we agree or not that the Obama administration is protecting the HMOs? * Do we agree or not that the Hill-Burton system was better than what the U.S.A. has now? Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Jan Klimkowski - 17-11-2009 McGowan - you come onto this site and post in one thread only, in support of Lyndon LaRouche's ridiculous claims about fascism and killing grandma to bail out Wall Street. I ask you for evidence to support LaRouche's claims. You fail to provide it. This thread is not about Wall Street. It is about LaRouche's unsubstantiated claims that Obama's healthcare plan would introduce what he describes as "fascist" "British" "austerity" measures, leading to the American infirm and elderly being killed, by doctors, to save Wall Street. I put those words in inverted commas because they all have a special meaning to LaRouchies which requires translation for the rest of us. If we are even bothered about Lyndon's increasingly senile rants.... If you want to discuss Wall Street, there's an entire directory on this site, at the link below, with more than a hundred threads exposing criminal and deep political misbehaviour: http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15 Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - David Guyatt - 18-11-2009 I should like also to see the evidence Jan has asked Gary McGowan to provide rather than being given repetitive and unsubstantiated rhetoric in absence of that evidence. |