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+--- Thread: Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan (/thread-2015.html)
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - David Guyatt - 19-11-2009
Mr. McGowan, if you can find someone independent of LaRouche to amuse us with that wold be preferable imo. At the moment we are all being treated to a LaRouchian spectacle and embedded links to LaRouche in your almost every post.
I hope that does not solely comprises your knowledge base on these subjects.
Please consider posting in other folders, like the banking folder (which you have expressed an interest in), views and information that are not believers epistles from The Holy Church of St. Lyndon the Blessed Saviour. Many of us here probably have views that may be reciprocal to yours in many ways --- x the in-house EIR slant.
As to statistics you will be aware of the famous saying: there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Why bother posting them I wonder - especially as they are LaRouchian stats and, therefore, almost certain to be on message.
A more thorough, wider and independent knowledge of these topics would be find a wider audience I am sure.
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Gary McGowan - 19-11-2009
I hadn't seen this post when I replied to Jan just above.
David Guyatt Wrote:In other words LaRouche corroborates LaRouche....or LL and colleagues make their arguments better than I've been able to.
David Guyatt Wrote:...the British National Health System is not a "Corporation" in the sense you mean (usually charaterized by limited liability, the issuance of shares and operating for profit). On the contrary, the NHS is taxpayer funded, is not for profit and a very great majority of Brits cherich it and despise the thought the business elites are trying to privatize it.Yeah. Americans kinda liked the taxpayer funded Hill-Burton system too, before Nixon administration and finding themselves with this privatized HMO crap. (It's past 1:30 a.m. I'm painting in broad strokes.)
David Guyatt Wrote:Ergo your argument that the word fascist means "Bullying by the corporate elite" does not fit pretty close at all.Well, except for the fact that I had said, "LaRouche and colleagues have never said nor intended to imply that the British NHS is an inherently fascist system." The corporate elite is bullying American domestic policy. Actually, financier elite might be a better term; then, to my way of thinking, it could apply to U.K. policy too--but you folks can do as you please with your health care. Just please keep Tony Blair and his buddies on the island and out of U.S. affairs.
LaRouche and co-conspirators DO support their views with proof and evidence. You just refuse to engage it.
David Guyatt Wrote:But I see this discussion is going to go exactly nowhereIt may well be that the behavioral economists who are advising their narcissistic little puppet, Obama, would have slipped their spiffy advisory panel (accountable to nobody--certainly not American citizens) in really smoothly by now had not LaRouche intervened. To me, that's "getting somewhere," albeit a small step.
A little history, just for fun:
The Franklin School Starts Modern England, by Anton Chaitkin
.
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Gary McGowan - 19-11-2009
David Guyatt Wrote:Mr. McGowan, if you can find someone independent of LaRouche to amuse us with that wold be preferable imo. At the moment we are all being treated to a LaRouchian spectacle and embedded links to LaRouche in your almost every post.
I hope that does not solely comprises your knowledge base on these subjects.
Please consider posting in other folders, like the banking folder (which you have expressed an interest in), views and information that are not believers epistles from The Holy Church of St. Lyndon the Blessed Saviour. Many of us here probably have views that may be reciprocal to yours in many ways --- x the in-house EIR slant.
As to statistics you will be aware of the famous saying: there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Why bother posting them I wonder - especially as they are LaRouchian stats and, therefore, almost certain to be on message.
A more thorough, wider and independent knowledge of these topics would be find a wider audience I am sure.
Quote:Some of their [EIR's] authors, including LaRouche himself, have a very radical way of writing and speaking, which tends to put people off. The facts they report seem to reliable, although I am less sure about their conclusions. Personally, I think their understanding of history, geopolitics, and international crime syndicates is among the best; and in a lot of ways they are pioneers.
-- Joël van der Reijden, http://www.isgp.eu/about.htm
I trust you are familiar with the site and the author's work.Thank you for the suggestion.
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - David Guyatt - 20-11-2009
Yes I know Joel and we have discussed LL. He is broadly in agreement with me that whilst their research material is often insightful and interesting, their interpretation and conclusions are not to be trusted.
You will find others here who have far deeper insights into EIR and LL. In fact, few of us are virgins when it comes them.
A couple of years ago I was sent a newspaper article concerning LL who had attended a Bush White House soiree and was seen in an extended private huddle with Dick Cheney.
This was after LL "brought Cheney down", called for his resignation and so on, in a series of articles spanning several years. Cheney was LL's bogey-man par excellence.
Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it.
In the UK the third political party, the Lib-Dems, never acquires power. I am not alone in seeing in them a sort of lightning rod that diffuses public dissatisfaction with the sham we call democracy. Elite thinking would certainly see the advantage of this.
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Gary McGowan - 21-11-2009
David Guyatt Wrote:A couple of years ago I was sent a newspaper article concerning LL who had attended a Bush White House soiree and was seen in an extended private huddle with Dick Cheney.Do you want to provide some sort of corroboration for that statement? I should like to see the evidence.
.
“I saw a newspaper article”
Indeed.
.
.
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - David Guyatt - 21-11-2009
Long term readers of this forum will know why I can no longer retrieve my archive these days (or at least not easily), but I can assure you this is true. But do your own research. This article was freely available on the internet no more than three years ago - which was approx. when I downloaded and read it.
But I have to admit that I did post this fragment a bit tongue in cheek because I had the suspicion that it might unsettle your hero worship just a tad and I see that it has. As always its preferable to shoot the messenger than believe the message, eh.
Now that I understand who you are and what you believe I think the sensible course of action for me henceforward is to leave it here.
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Gary McGowan - 24-11-2009
David Guyatt Wrote:Now that I understand who you are ....
I am just[/FONT] a poor boy though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises
All lies in jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest
hmm hmm hmmm
When I left my home and my family, was no more than a boy
In the company of strangers In the quiet of the railway station running scared
Laying low seeking out the poorer quarters, Where the ragged people go
Looking for the places only they would know
lie la lie, ...
Asking only workman's wages I come looking for a job, but I get no offers
Just a come on from the whores on seventh avenue
I do declare there were times when I was so lonesome
I took some comfort there
la la la ...
And I am laying out my winter clothes and wishing I was gone, Going home
Where the New York City winters aren't bleeding me, Leading me, going home
In the clearing stands a boxer and a fighter by his trade
And he carries the reminders
Of every glove that laid him down or cut him till he cried out
In his anger and shame, I am leaving, I am leaving,
But the fighter still remains hmm hmm hmm
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - David Guyatt - 24-11-2009
It's a great song, as indeed is this:
Hello darkness, my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again,
Because a vision softly creeping,
Left its seeds while I was sleeping,
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence.
In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone,
'Neath the halo of a street lamp,
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence.
And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more.
People talking without speaking,
People hearing without listening,
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence.
"Fools" said I, "You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows.
Hear my words that I might teach you,
Take my arms that I might reach you."
But my words like silent raindrops fell,
And echoed
In the wells of silence.
And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made.
And the sign flashed out its warning,
In the words that it was forming.
And the sign said, the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls.
And whisper'd in the sounds of silence."
But neither compare to this
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Linda Minor - 01-12-2009
THE PROBLEM AIN'T DUBAI. IT'S LONDON!
by John Hoefle
November 29, 2009 (LPAC)—Death never takes a holiday, and neither does the global breakdown. While the attention of America was distracted by the Thanksgiving holiday, the British Empire was on the move, making decisions which include a planned early dumping of President Barack Obama.
The "Dubai crisis," as it is being mis-reported, is actually the breakdown of the London-centered global monetary system. Far from being a mere backwater, Dubai occupies a key place in the dope-running, dirty money, criminal organization which is the empire. To view this merely as a "Dubai crisis," is to miss the point entirely about the nature of the period.
"Since January of this year, but most clearly since the beginning of April, the United States and world civilization, but particularly the United States, is in a process of self-destruction," Lyndon LaRouche observed Nov. 24.
"What you're having now—it should be obvious to you all—is a general breakdown of civilization," LaRouche said. "This is not a financial crisis, though there is one there. It's not an economic crisis—there's a real big one there. But it's a breakdown of civilization... the entire society, especially immediately in the United States, is disintegrating."
The next day, while the American press was busy exhorting Americans to gear up for a Black Friday shopping frenzy, the next phase of the collapse was beginning, in London, and Dubai.
Hello, Dubai
The public portion of the crisis began when Dubai World, a corporate front for the royal family of the tiny nation, announced that it was requesting a six-month moratorium on its debt payments. The move sent European stock markets plunging on Thanksgiving Day, followed by Asian and U.S. markets the next day, as fears of a new round of losses spread around the world.
Bank stocks were hit the hardest. Dubai World has some $60 billion of debts, about half of which is reportedly owed to European banks. The company went deep into debt to fund one of the craziest fantasies we've seen in a while, the turning of Dubai into a tourist destination and pleasure center. It created a series of opulent man-made residential islands, shopping malls, luxury hotels, and high-rise towers, filled with nearly every amenity possible, except maybe good taste. The game worked for a while, but then the financial system blew, and real estate values fell by 50%.
The bank debt and the real estate values are trivial, however, compared to the subterranean money flows which form the real economy of Dubai. The tiny emirate is the central black market for the empire's black-market system, the financial capital of the world's dope and hot money trade. Dubai today plays a role similar to that of Hong Kong in the earlier days of the British Empire, its high-rises home to some of Afghanistan's most powerful drug lords, among other narcotrafficking kingpins. This is the real reason for Dubai's emergence as a financial center.
Dubai is run top-down by the British, built largely with British money, and by British-linked construction firms. Most government agencies have a member of the Dubai royal family as the titular head, with a Brit second in command and actually running the operation. It should come as no surprise that Sheikh Mohammed, the ruler of Dubai, went to London to visit Queen Elizabeth, Prime Minister Gordon Brown, and others, in the days immediately preceding the Dubai World announcement. As the Sheikh himself said, the whole thing had been "carefully planned in advance."
What's Next?
The full extent of what the British have planned remains to be seen, but it is clear that they are not at all happy with the state of their empire, and when they are angry, they tend to lash out. They also tend to make mistakes, which works to our advantage.
Whatever they do, the disintegration will continue. As LaRouche has observed, the system is collapsing faster than the imperialists can put their fascist measures into place, forcing them to constantly react to forces beyond their control. The only way to stop the slide into a new Dark Age, is the full implementation of the LaRouche Plan.
The crash is on. Nothing has been solved, not by all the criminal bailout schemes, not by the so-called stimulus plans, not by the "recovery" lies of the clueless cheerleaders. Through it all, the financial losses have grown, and the physical economy has collapsed. Look at the number of people who have lost their jobs, the number of families who have lost their homes, the number of state and local governments which are now hopelessly bankrupt and cutting services beyond the marrow. This is reality, and it is getting worse.
Rather than moving to help their people, governments are turning openly to fascism. Trillions of dollars for the bankers, but nothing for the people. We get medical cuts for the elderly, cutbacks in cancer screening, and other such measures. These fascist policies continue to be pushed down our throats. The government knows the people are opposed to these measures, but it imposes them anyway.
All of these policies originated in Britain, where a callous disregard for the welfare of the people by a self-serving and fascist elite is the hallmark of that inferior society. Welcome to more British Empire.
More Coming
The empire, and its colonial flunkies in the United States—like President Obama—know the current system is finished, and they are working feverishly to keep us preoccupied while they dismantle what few protections we have left. Much of this is being done under the false flag of reform—financial reform, health-care reform, tax reform, energy-policy reform, and others—austerity, and further concentration of power in oligarchic hands, sold by the behaviorist psychos as progress. The "new and improved" version of the same old fascism.
Look at the banking reforms that are being pushed by the Brits, their Wall Street agents, and their pets in Congress, like nasty Nancy Pelosi and "Bailout Barney" Frank. Notable are the moves to make it easier to break up bankrupt financial institutions, and the proposed tax on financial transactions. On the surface these may seem like reasonable policies, but they are not, at least in the context of the existing system. Absent LaRouche's bankruptcy reorganization, the anti-"too big to fail" moves are really just ways to make it easier for the imperial banks to gobble up their competitors, and the transaction tax a way of charging the victims for being eaten.
No one should ever forget that it was the British Empire that organized and financed the wave of fascism which struck the world in the 1920s and 1930s, the British Empire which gave us Mussolini and Hitler. The empire is still fascist, but since Hitler made it impossible to sell fascism in its own name, it has now been repackaged, as globalization and environmentalism. "It's not austerity, it's saving the planet! You still die, but now it's for a 'good cause.' Don't you feel better already?"
The LaRouche Plan
The only way to stop this descent into Hell is to break the grip of the British Empire over the world, and that means busting up its monetary system. We must take away its power to control money, and give that power to sovereign governments. If that sounds radical to you, just remember it's what the Constitution says on that, and that our divergence from the Constitution opened the door to the current disaster. If we don't break the power of the empire, nothing else we do will make a damn bit of difference. Nothing!
Rather than propping up the casino, we shut it down, writing off all derivatives, putting the mountains of speculative debt in the freezer, and reorganizing the banks under strict regulations. No more derivatives, no more casino. Finance becomes what it should be, the servant of real economic activity. Real bankers will love it, and the gamblers—well, who really cares!
We do this in conjunction with Russia, China, and India—and any other nation which wants to join—to form a bloc powerful enough to force the empire into submission. Sorry, Queenie, no more empire.
That done, we can turn our attention to improving the conditions of life on the planet. That means science and technology, infrastructure and production, education and creativity. Rather than going to Hell, we can go to Mars!
Larouche Role in Obama Health Care plan - Jan Klimkowski - 02-12-2009
It may well be that a lot of deep black dope money is laundered through Dubai.
The creation of the world's first purpose built "Shop Till You Drop" World was clearly a front for something.
Lots of idiots with more filthy lucre than brains were sucked into this very C21st fantasyland, airconditioned corridors in the desert with gleaming designer shops selling gleaming designer shite, and whose inhabitants' raison d'etre can be summarized as:
I shop, therefore I am
As for the rest of LaRouche's rant, I have no idea what the old fool is banging on about.
Perhaps his mate with the MI6 family connections, Lord Monckton, Lady Thatcher's shock therapist friend, can explain...