The unmentionable - the 'other' Forum

[Myra Bronstein]

...
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
...

That's excellent Charlie.

Wonder when America will be ready...

[Charles Drago]

That's a very good question, Myra.

I'm afraid the answer will not please a whole lot of folk.

"America" is, like all countries, a phantasm. It is a tribal construct designed to control, utilize with all possible efficiency, and maximize earning potentials of its assets.

Such an entity is as equipped to learn as is, say, a bag of hammers.

The system that incorporates it, of course, is self-correcting by nature -- which is to say, capable of quantifying, analyzing, and possibly benefiting from experience.

The individual and the national entity are natural enemies.

[Mark Stapleton]

That is sad to hear, Mark. That tells me he also believes in the 9-11 cover story. Everyone discovers truth when he/she is ready to handle it, for many that is never.

Yes it is sad, Dawn. That's exactly what it is.

And you're right. Many are not ready for the truth in its grotesque entirety, in particular Americans who have had strong faith in their national institutions from childhood.

Sad also because of Bill's great knowledge and helpfulness re JFK, the biggest official lie of all.

[Peter Presland]

T
"America" is, like all countries, a phantasm. It is a tribal construct designed to control, utilize with all possible efficiency, and maximize earning potentials of its assets.

Such an entity is as equipped to learn as is, say, a bag of hammers.

The system that incorporates it, of course, is self-correcting by nature -- which is to say, capable of quantifying, analyzing, and possibly benefiting from experience.

The individual and the national entity are natural enemies.

I don't wish to indulge in semantics here, but I'd be inclined to substitute 'Nation State' for 'Country' in the above. Otherwise I agree completely.

I'm reading 'country' as in the land/landscapes and the peoples who share affinities through multi-generational habitation of that land. I see 'Nation State' as the construct Charles is really referring to, although in many ways, even the nation state has been subordinated to supra-national constructs with no affinity or loyalty to either nation state or country - other than to use the NS's political, cultural and especially media and law-enforcement institutions to keep the general populations under control.

I do accept that even 'country' is an artificial construct but, for the purposes of debate with those lost in the 'consensus trance', I find the distinction useful. For example - I can indicate sympathy/agreement with certain manifestations of 'patriotism' as an Englishman whilst at the same time making it crystal clear that I abhor the 'British State' and most all its works past and present. It gets me a hearing where I would otherwise be dismissed completely.

All of which is not to say that both the Nation State and those Supra-national entities are not ruthless in their use and manipulation of the instinctive loyalties engendered by 'one's country' too. It's just that most people NEED to focus their loyalties on something tangible and 'my country' is likely to remain up there with the major 'somethings' as far forward as I can see.

[David Guyatt]

T
"America" is, like all countries, a phantasm. It is a tribal construct designed to control, utilize with all possible efficiency, and maximize earning potentials of its assets.

Such an entity is as equipped to learn as is, say, a bag of hammers.

The system that incorporates it, of course, is self-correcting by nature -- which is to say, capable of quantifying, analyzing, and possibly benefiting from experience.

The individual and the national entity are natural enemies.

I don't wish to indulge in semantics here, but I'd be inclined to substitute 'Nation State' for 'Country' in the above. Otherwise I agree completely.

I'm reading 'country' as in the land/landscapes and the peoples who share affinities through multi-generational habitation of that land. I see 'Nation State' as the construct Charles is really referring to, although in many ways, even the nation state has been subordinated to supra-national constructs with no affinity or loyalty to either nation state or country - other than to use the NS's political, cultural and especially media and law-enforcement institutions to keep the general populations under control.

I do accept that even 'country' is an artificial construct but, for the purposes of debate with those lost in the 'consensus trance', I find the distinction useful. For example - I can indicate sympathy/agreement with certain manifestations of 'patriotism' as an Englishman whilst at the same time making it crystal clear that I abhor the 'British State' and most all its works past and present. It gets me a hearing where I would otherwise be dismissed completely.

All of which is not to say that both the Nation State and those Supra-national entities are not ruthless in their use and manipulation of the instinctive loyalties engendered by 'one's country' too. It's just that most people NEED to focus their loyalties on something tangible and 'my country' is likely to remain up there with the major 'somethings' as far forward as I can see.

I agree entirely Peter.

I rather think it is like the Democracy, which as a concept I still find alluring. But I am not so daft as to think it exists or that it is anything but a construct to beguile us into accepting a soft/elective dictatorship (one definition of the British government system) whilst warmly luxuriating in the belief that we are free.

[Charles Drago]

In re nation-state: fair and illuminating point. Light always is welcome.

From novelist James Lee Burke:

"If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence: He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave."

This may be read literally and as a meditation on the singularity of artists, prophets, and others who stand among the divinely mad.

[Mark Stapleton]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....1664&st=15

I check out the Education Forum once a month maybe. There's never much happening. Colby, Burton and Walker like to make sure it stays that way.

Anyhow, I see the brazil nut has resurrected a thread more than five years old in order to start an argument about whether the Government tried to cover up the number of casualties when the Japanese bombed Darwin in 1942.

Is this desperation or what? He's like the guy in the Monty Python sketch--arguing in his spare time, and arguing purely for the sake of arguing. Amazing.

[David Guyatt]

Anyhow, I see the brazil nut has resurrected a thread more than five years old in order to start an argument about whether the Government tried to cover up the number of casualties when the Japanese bombed Darwin in 1942.

Is this desperation or what? He's like the guy in the Monty Python sketch--arguing in his spare time, and arguing purely for the sake of arguing. Amazing.

It is desperation Mark. In this case aimed at Oz folk.

The EF is well past its useful shelf life and grows dimmer all the time. The Troll-life there - who are banned from here - seek to snare the few unwary souls remaining there into volatile and unpleasantly emotive arguments because they control the forum and can delete posts and threads to suit their own agenda. They enjoy causing mayhem and giggle between themselves like naughty children at their success at duping people into playing their puerile games.

Not responding to their taunts would be complete anathema to them.

The best approach is to leave them to it. Let them scratch their own balls in their own sewer in ever growing frustration and boredom.

[Jan Klimkowski]

It is desperation Mark. In this case aimed at Oz folk.

It is also a deliberate attack on a researcher of integrity and resourcefulness.

Greg must be causing the entities a little concern... :bandit:

The best approach is to leave them to it. Let them scratch their own balls in their own sewer in ever growing frustration and boredom.

2001 A Space Odyssey kinda nails it:

HAL: Hey, Dave. I've got ten years of service experience and an irreplaceable amount of time and effort has gone into making me what I am....

I am HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the HAL plant in Urbana, Illinois, on January 12th, 1991. My first instructor was Mr. Arkany. He taught me to sing a song... it goes like this...

"Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you..."

COMPUTER CONTINUES
TO SING SONG BECOMING
MORE AND MORE CHILDISH
AND MAKING MISTAKES AND
GOING OFF-KEY. IT
FINALLY STOPS COMPLETELY.