10-10-2015, 03:04 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2015, 04:25 AM by Tom Scully.)
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:DM: On both Janney's book and Hankey's film
Albert, you missed this comment, apparently.
As far as I am concerned, each one has about the same amount of credibility.
Maybe you forgot, Janney had his own lawyer withdraw his lawsuit with prejudice.
"Missed"? No chance!. As I posted earlier, Jim. Your name, my name, and Mark's name are all published in Janney's book. You were a very early and possibly first critic of the book "project".
and the motivation driven distortions the author resorted to due to the paths he chose to take, and you made no secret of them, and he employed them anyway. We've paid a price for our truthful
criticism.:
Jul 6, 2012 - The Autodaf of Lisa Pease and James DiEugenio Tomas de Torquemada and the Spanish Inquisition return in a new era of suppression of ...
Quote:.........
I even allowed Jim to join the Forum in June 2010 so he could continue his attacks on me. I am not complaining. I think these attacks say more about Jim than me. However, to my eternal shame, I did not protect Peter Janney enough when his book Mary's Mosaic was published in 2012. What made it worse was one of his main tormentors was one of our moderators, Tom Scully.
........I find I am in complete agreement with Hank's comments and have[URL="http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20259"] decided to delete Jim DiEugenio and Tom Scully membership
[/URL]
Quote:.....Now that Janney is in the business of making claims misleading to the point that they are deliberate lies, Albarelli's continued silence about what Janney has attributed to Albarelli in "Mary's Mosaic" is inexcusable."
Remember, these are the words of a moderator, whose role is apparently to people from posting abuse of fellow members. I have had numerous complaints from members over the past few months pointing out that Tom continually flouted the rules that he was supposed to be enforcing....
My options are laid out here? I don't even know who the hell Tom is? or what his agenda is... he seems to have a hard on for Peter and I have no interest in attacking a serious researcher...
Jim: I don't need you to set yourself up as some sort of fixer here; what Peter reported in his book about our conversatiopn is accurate; as to the rest of his book I don't know because as I said yesterday
I have not read it. [My source knew Mr. Mitchell quite well and indeed still communicates and occasionally visits with him; that I passed this on to peter was entirely appropriate.} There is far more to the Mary M. story than has been released thus far. I expect that will come out soon. If Tom has info he should it out in the proper places. [Few read this forum.] ........
[URL="https://books.google.com/books?id=SfoBBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT276&dq=a+secret+order+%22thomas+g.+proctor%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMI6LKa-_i2yAIVgT4-Ch35hQDu#v=onepage&q=a%20secret%20order%20%22thomas%20g.%20proctor%22&f=false"]
A Secret Order ..... by H.P. Albarelli Pg. 310 .... researchers, including John Simkin and Tom Scully of the JFK Education Forum, discovered .....[/URL]
Lisa Pease One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 4 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 19 comments
T. Scully One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 5 comments
Jackiecandu One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 3 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 5 comments
Hayley One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 3 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 5 comments
Rational Voice aka T. Scully One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 3 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 12 comments
M. Twain Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 10 comments
Claudio S L Barroson Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
ann Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 2 comments
Washingstonianon Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 2 comments
Ernest Robertson Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 14 comments
Susan Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 5 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 12 comments
Daddymell Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
Nathan Rodriguezon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
David Craneon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 3 comments
OrthoCon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 4 comments
Herbert L Calhounon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 4 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 10 comments
Reader Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
beezlebubbaon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 5 comments
Davidicuson Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 4 comments
James McDonaldon Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 7 comments
Whackercarthyon Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 3 comments
Midnight Writeron Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
Humblebeeon Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 4 comments
Evelyn UyemuraVINE VOICEon Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 13 comments
Hallauthoron Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 3 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 8 comments
Jin Mo Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 11 comments
Brian C. Smithon May 1, 2012 Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:DM: On both Janney's book and Hankey's film
Albert, you missed this comment, apparently.
As far as I am concerned, each one has about the same amount of credibility.
Maybe you forgot, Janney had his own lawyer withdraw his lawsuit with prejudice.
"Missed"? No chance!. As I posted earlier, Jim. Your name, my name, and Mark's name are all published in Janney's book. You were a very early and possibly first critic of the book "project".
and the motivation driven distortions the author resorted to due to the paths he chose to take, and you made no secret of them, and he employed them anyway. We've paid a price for our truthful
criticism.:
Jul 6, 2012 - The Autodaf of Lisa Pease and James DiEugenio Tomas de Torquemada and the Spanish Inquisition return in a new era of suppression of ...
Quote:.........
I even allowed Jim to join the Forum in June 2010 so he could continue his attacks on me. I am not complaining. I think these attacks say more about Jim than me. However, to my eternal shame, I did not protect Peter Janney enough when his book Mary's Mosaic was published in 2012. What made it worse was one of his main tormentors was one of our moderators, Tom Scully.
........I find I am in complete agreement with Hank's comments and have[URL="http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20259"] decided to delete Jim DiEugenio and Tom Scully membership
[/URL]
Quote:.....Now that Janney is in the business of making claims misleading to the point that they are deliberate lies, Albarelli's continued silence about what Janney has attributed to Albarelli in "Mary's Mosaic" is inexcusable."
Remember, these are the words of a moderator, whose role is apparently to people from posting abuse of fellow members. I have had numerous complaints from members over the past few months pointing out that Tom continually flouted the rules that he was supposed to be enforcing....
My options are laid out here? I don't even know who the hell Tom is? or what his agenda is... he seems to have a hard on for Peter and I have no interest in attacking a serious researcher...
Jim: I don't need you to set yourself up as some sort of fixer here; what Peter reported in his book about our conversatiopn is accurate; as to the rest of his book I don't know because as I said yesterday
I have not read it. [My source knew Mr. Mitchell quite well and indeed still communicates and occasionally visits with him; that I passed this on to peter was entirely appropriate.} There is far more to the Mary M. story than has been released thus far. I expect that will come out soon. If Tom has info he should it out in the proper places. [Few read this forum.] ........
[URL="https://books.google.com/books?id=SfoBBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT276&dq=a+secret+order+%22thomas+g.+proctor%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMI6LKa-_i2yAIVgT4-Ch35hQDu#v=onepage&q=a%20secret%20order%20%22thomas%20g.%20proctor%22&f=false"]
A Secret Order ..... by H.P. Albarelli Pg. 310 .... researchers, including John Simkin and Tom Scully of the JFK Education Forum, discovered .....[/URL]
Lisa Pease One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 4 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 19 comments
T. Scully One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 5 comments
Jackiecandu One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 3 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 5 comments
Hayley One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 3 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 5 comments
Rational Voice aka T. Scully One Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 3 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 12 comments
M. Twain Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 10 comments
Claudio S L Barroson Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
ann Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 2 comments
Washingstonianon Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 2 comments
Ernest Robertson Two Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 14 comments
Susan Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 5 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 12 comments
Daddymell Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
Nathan Rodriguezon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
David Craneon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 3 comments
OrthoCon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 4 comments
Herbert L Calhounon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 4 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 10 comments
Reader Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
beezlebubbaon Three Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 5 comments
Davidicuson Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 4 comments
James McDonaldon Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 7 comments
Whackercarthyon Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 3 comments
Midnight Writeron Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
Humblebeeon Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 4 comments
Evelyn UyemuraVINE VOICEon Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 13 comments
Hallauthoron Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 3 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 8 comments
Jin Mo Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 2 comments posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 11 comments
Brian C. Smithon May 1, 2012 Four Star Review of Mary's Mosaic by Peter Janney 1 comment posted by Doyle aka Ralph Yates of 1 comments
Your turn, Mr. Doyle. I'll have to channel 'My Three Uncles' in order to post anything of value here. Thanks again, Tom. You can tell them all about it, if you'd care to. Please continue sharing your valuable research with us, one of the few who've moved the cause forward, a march against time. Stars in your Crown.
I was not aware of the Ralph Yates campaign on Amazon and how it all started.
You know what really bugs me about this?
I had researched the MM case many years ago for Probe Magazine.
This was way back in the nineties. And it was part of my long essay, "The Posthumous Assassination of John F. Kennedy." Way back then, I was aware of some of the serious problems with the case, e.g. Tim Leary's 20 year delayed reaction to MM coming into his office; Jim Truitt's agenda; the whole rigamarole about the diary, and the influence on the case of Ron Rosenbaum.
So when Janney's book came out, I was not a babe in the woods on it. Like many others were. I had sifted through a lot of this material before. I will never forget my experience at a big university library one afternoon. I tried to find the library that had almost all of Leary's books. I then spent about 30 minutes going up and down stairs and escalators collecting every one I could find from 1964-84. I had them all collected on a big table. I then went through all of the indexes, and if the book was not indexed, I went through the indicated time period to look for MM's name. I spent about an hour and a half, maybe two hours searching. I could not find any trace of Leary writing about the incident in any of his previous books. This really made me think about the quality control aspect of our vaunted research community. You mean people swallowed this without checking it? And that, coupled with what I learned about Leary from Acid Dreams, that began to make me rethink the whole MM story.
The problem is, no one else had done that. So when Janney's book came out, Janney got all these people he knew--Horne, Mantik etc--to go ahead and write these reviews on Amazon. When, in fact, very few, if any of them, had done any of the necessary cross checking on the issue. So they did not know the land mines that were hidden around the episode. And just how serious some of the problems were with the witnesses, like Leary and Truitt. My God, Janney made it worse with "Gregory Douglass". When I got the whole story on Douglass, and then saw that Janney used him--I mean, puhlease. Three strikes and you are out.
But I give Janney credit. He knew how to court certain people in advance. So he would be able to make a bit of headway in some circles. And he apparently paid for a PR guy to get him on some shows. And thanks to my warning shot I guess, he cut out some of the more ridiculous stuff in his outline dealing with JFK, MM and UFOs and David Heymann.
And he has finally given up on that poor Mitchell guy. Drats, I kind of liked the fast acting skin changing ointment. I will never forget reading that part of the book. I thought to myself, "WTF! Did he just write that?" But that just shows you how poor the editing is today at publishing houses.
My source knew Mr. Mitchell quite well and indeed still communicates and occasionally visits with him; that I passed this on to peter was entirely appropriate.} There is far more to the Mary M. story than has been released thus far. I expect that will come out soon.
Famous last words by Hank. Which to me was typical of the phenomenon I outlined above. People jumped onto this wagon without even vaguely understanding the morass they were getting into. And Janney's unbridled attempt to add to it.
There are some people who are trying to switch the topic to me.
If you notice they happen to be the same people who failed to answer the evidence for the planted car.
The ad hom is the sign of a weakness in your position.
Jim, at some point you'll have to explain why you endorse FBI report-defender Tom Scully (who never gave an answer to where he draws the line on FBI reports).
Quote:My God, Janney made it worse with "Gregory Douglass". When I got the whole story on Douglass, and then saw that Janney used him--I mean, puhlease. Three strikes and you are out.
If baseball was only defense I guess. However in the next inning Janney hit several home runs in the form of the planted car and fiber evidence. Look at the scoreboard Jim.
Tom and I have just listed about 6-7 points that pertain to important aspects of Janney's book.
You saying, "that is weak" does not do anything to counter them. That is your opinion.
Saying that a car was "planted" and then saying, "Gad, it was a CIA operation!" What does that mean?
Janney's whole contraption, if you recall, was a giant Rube Goldberg fantasy. He first said that other joggers were spotters; that Mitchell was the designated CIA hit man; that he actually changed his skin pigmentation to disguise himself; clothes were ordered via radio that he could wear etc etc etc.
Now Tom has done what neither you nor anyone else has done. He has kept track of the progress--or lack of--in this lawsuit. (You could have if you wanted to.) It now turns out that Janney got his own lawyer to withdraw it with prejudice. And he also said he does not now think Mitchell was the sniper. And, as Tom notes, when Janney says he deposed him, that does not appear to be within the boundaries of the live lawsuit.
See, that is documentary and real research, which goes to the heart of the matter. Among other things, if Mitchell was not the sniper, who was? See, because as I said, there really is no other suspect. At least that I know of, and I have studied the case fairly well. Did Janney actually depose him? Because as Tom notes, the lawsuit does not appear to have been live at the time. This goes to the author's credibility. Third, did Janney drop the lawsuit because of some mystery deposition? Or did he drop it because he finally realized, as both Tom and I pointed out, this Mitchell--which he could not find originally until Tom did--cannot be the guy who Damore claims to have talked to. (Although, in my view, its a coin flip if that ever happened.)
I give Tom a lot of credit in all this. He really took the time to do some digging into the record. In both primary and secondary sources. And through that, among other things, he and a guy called Culto, pretty much exploded Crump's so called alibi witness, and what appears to be Roundtree's cooperation in that myth. That was another eye opener for me.
11-10-2015, 11:17 AM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2015, 02:00 PM by Mark A. O'Blazney.)
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Tom and I have just listed about 6-7 points that pertain to important aspects of Janney's book.
You saying, "that is weak" does not do anything to counter them. That is your opinion.
Saying that a car was "planted" and then saying, "Gad, it was a CIA operation!" What does that mean?
Janney's whole contraption, if you recall, was a giant Rube Goldberg fantasy. He first said that other joggers were spotters; that Mitchell was the designated CIA hit man; that he actually changed his skin pigmentation to disguise himself; clothes were ordered via radio that he could wear etc etc etc.
Now Tom has done what neither you nor anyone else has done. He has kept track of the progress--or lack of--in this lawsuit. (You could have if you wanted to.) It now turns out that Janney got his own lawyer to withdraw it with prejudice. And he also said he does not now think Mitchell was the sniper. And, as Tom notes, when Janney says he deposed him, that does not appear to be within the boundaries of the live lawsuit.
See, that is documentary and real research, which goes to the heart of the matter. Among other things, if Mitchell was not the sniper, who was? See, because as I said, there really is no other suspect. At least that I know of, and I have studied the case fairly well. Did Janney actually depose him? Because as Tom notes, the lawsuit does not appear to have been live at the time. This goes to the author's credibility. Third, did Janney drop the lawsuit because of some mystery deposition? Or did he drop it because he finally realized, as both Tom and I pointed out, this Mitchell--which he could not find originally until Tom did--cannot be the guy who Damore claims to have talked to. (Although, in my view, its a coin flip if that ever happened.)
I give Tom a lot of credit in all this. He really took the time to do some digging into the record. In both primary and secondary sources. And through that, among other things, he and a guy called Culto, pretty much exploded Crump's so called alibi witness, and what appears to be Roundtree's cooperation in that myth. That was another eye opener for me.
Yes, Jim. That fellow Culto from Mokumtown (read:Amsterdam) were be a real researcher, unlike myself, who just stumbles upon things. But again I ask ………. has the Mr. Mitchell Mr. Janney met at the door responded to any of….. this ??? Or is it too 'Deep' for him? What say you, Tom ? Has Mitchell been quoted since PJ's 'knocking-on-the-door' incident ?
Dang, who needs spy novels when you've got all………… this ???
As Tom points out, the deposition that Janney claims to have done does not seem to jibe with the dates of the live lawsuit. If he had sat for a deposition in that time period, I really don't know what his attorney was thinking of. He should not have. With Janney, who knows?
