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Discrediting Secret Service complicity in the elimination of JFK…
#81
Boring's Interesting ARRB Interview
By Vince Palamara
With a few notable, albeit largely overlooked exceptions1, Floyd Boring
was a relatively new name to the research community when this author wrote a
detailed article about this former #2 Assistant-Special-Agent-In-Charge
(ASAIC) of the White House Detail (WHD) entitled "Boring Is Interesting" in
the May 1995 "Fourth Decade (based off the author's 9/22/93 & 3/4/94
interviews)."2
In October 1995, this author gave a presentation at the 2nd annual
Coalition on Political Assassinations conference and wrote a follow-up article
entitled "More Boring Details" which appeared in the Nov. 1995 "Fourth
Decade". However, it was from the author's COPA appearance that the name of
Floyd Boring perked the attention of Tom Samoluk of the Assassination Records
Review Board (ARRB)---Samoluk contacted the author, I donated all of my audio
tapes and correspondence from all of my Secret Service/ related interviews,
and the rest is history.3
Nevertheless, there is a twist: unbeknownst to me until the publication
of a recent book4, I had no idea that the ARRB actually followed through with
one of my suggestions (although they had followed up on two others5) and
interviewed Mr. Boring...but they did. On September 18, 1996, a mere 2 days
after I received the Deed of Gift from the National Archives regarding my
donations, Dr. Joan Zimmerman and Doug Horne of the ARRB interviewed Mr.
Boring at his home in Maryland. The interview was even audiotaped with Mr.
Boring's consent. The ARRB interview of Floyd Boring is in the ARRB's medical
documents and deposiions box released in July of 1998. It is MD 259. Actually, it’s a
summary of the interview not a transcript.
"Who? Me? Why?"
The interview begins with Boring exclaiming "I didn't have anything to do
with it, and I don't know anything." Let's replay that again: "I didn't have
anything to do with it"---what, the assassination or the Texas trip?
"I don't know anything"---he sure knew enough about the Texas trip to
tell Chief James Rowley via a written report 6 months after the assassination6
AND in his 1976 JFK Library Oral History, as well as his two talks with me!
Boring also claimed that "he had never spoken with anyone at all in the Secret
Service about any aspect of the Kennedy assassination", another statement that
is very hard to swallow, especially seeing that Boring founded the Retired
Secret Service Agent's Association in 1969.7
Pulling the strings in D.C.
In any event, Horne writes "Contrary to his disclaimer, the interview
proved to be worthwhile and interesting in a number of respects." Boring
confirmed that he had never been interviewed by the WC, the HSCA, or any other
government body in regard to the JFK assassination.8 Boring claimed that he
was enjoying a day off at his home on 11/22/63 when he heard the news of the
assassination on the radio.9
This ARRB interview provides startling new information, and that is that
Floyd Boring confirms that he was in charge of planning the Texas trip. It
also sheds light on the totality of Boring’s relationship with Texas trip
planning, especially questionable security matters.
First, author Jim Bishop revealed this fact in the 1960's in his book "The Day
Kennedy Was Shot":
p. 558 [1992 edition] "...(LBJ) called Secret Service Chief James Rowley.
‘Rufe did a brave thing today,’ he said. ‘He jumped on me and kept me down. I
want you to do whatever you can, the best that can be done, for that boy." He
hung up (this was 11/22/63). It had not occurred to him that Rowley, too, was
lonely. If there was any blame, any official laxness, it didn't matter that
THE PLANNING OF THE TEXAS TRIP HAD BEEN IN THE CAPABLE HANDS OF FLOYD
BORING."
(Emphasis added)
And, to the JFK Library in the 1970's:
"Part of my job at the White House during the entire President Kennedy
administration was to be in charge of the advance work."
To the Truman Library in the 1980's:
"I was on all the advance work out of there. I was assigned all the
advance work, sort of an administrator... I was second in charge [behind
Special Agent in Charge Jerry Behn]."
Finally, fellow former agent Sam Kinney (the driver of the follow-up car on
11/22/63):
In regard to SAIC Gerald A. "Jerry" Behn's absence from the Texas trip,
leaving ASAIC (#2) Floyd M. Boring to be the agent in charge of the Texas
trip, Kinney said: "I'll tell you how that happened. We got, as agents,
federal employees, 30 days a year annual leave, but they couldn't let us
off...there was only " x " amount of agents back then in the whole country.
Jerry Behn probably worked three years without annual leave so he decided to
take some time off...Roy Kellerman was third in charge-he's qualified. Floyd
Boring stayed home- he could still handle what ever came about from his
house; there [was] very little correspondence between the agents in Dallas
because Win Lawson had the advance."
Back to the ARRB interview: "Boring independently recalled that he was
the person who assigned Winston Lawson as the S.S. advance agent for the
Dallas leg of the Texas trip10, but could not recall why or how "Win" Lawson
was given that assignment." So much for Boring's 'disclaimer' "I didn't have
anything to do with it, and I don't know anything."
A curious limousine inspection
Boring initially claimed that his activities on 11/22/63 "were limited to
going directly from his home to Andrews AFB to meet the (new)
President11---and that he escorted President Johnson on his helicopter from
Andrews to the White House, after which he went directly home"; the latter
part of this statement, that Boring went directly home, is NOT backed up by
the documentary record, nor by Boring's own admitted actions.
Horne wrote: "When asked who directed him to go to Andrews AFB, Mr.
Boring said that nobody asked him to go there---that he just did it on his
own...
In about the middle of the interview, Mr. Boring remembered that he and
Mr. [Paul J.] Paterni had inspected the President's limousine and the Secret
Service follow-up car, but was unsure whether they had inspected them the
night President Johnson returned to Washington (11/22/63), or the next morning
(11/23/63)." Actually, Boring and Paterni inspected the limo from 10:10 p.m.
the night of 11/22/63 until 12:01 a.m., one minute into 11/23/63 (the FBI
inspected the limo afterwards, starting at 1:00 a.m.).12
Furthermore, "When asked who directed he and Paterni to search the
automobiles, he said that no one had; he said he thought it might be a good
idea and had suggested it himself to Paterni, and that they undertook this
search as independent action on their own initiative." Interestingly, they
also beat Chief Rowley and ASAIC Kellerman to the punch, as the record
indicates that they had also thought of the idea while at AAFB.13 (Just to be
clear, Rowley and Kellerman did not inspect the limousine at all.)
Continuing on: "After independently recalling that they had searched the
cars, Mr. Boring said that he had discovered a piece of skull bone with brain
attached14 in the rear of the follow-up car (the black Cadillac convertible
called the "Queen Mary"), in the footwell just in front of the back seat
bench. He said during follow-up questioning that the dimensions of this skull
bone-brain fragment were approximately 1" X 2". He said that he never picked
it up or touched it himself, but that he simply pointed it out to Mr. Paterni
(Mr. Paterni was Deputy Chief of the Secret Service)15 He said he did not
write a report about this, and he did not know whether Mr. Paterni had written
a report or not."16
What makes Boring's recollections of the limo inspection particularly
troublesome is the fact that he "made very clear during the [ARRB] interview
that this fragment was in the rear of the follow-up car, not in the rear seat
of the presidential limousine.
This would be the only known instance of anyone claiming to have found
JFK bone fragments in the Secret Service follow-up car.
Initially, ARRB staff members Zimmerman and Horne had misunderstood Mr.
Boring to mean that the bone-brain fragment was in the rear seat of the
President's limousine, and Mr. Boring took specific pains to correct their
misunderstanding during follow-on discussion of this matter.
However, Boring called Horne the next day to place a correction (and,
thus, a retraction) on the record: he now felt that the skull bone-and-brain
fragment he saw "must have been in the back seat of the President's limousine,
and not the follow-up car. He said that his stroke may perhaps have had
something to do with his error." (Boring had a stroke in the early 90's,
1991-1992ish).
During his inspection of the limousine with Paterni Boring found bullet
fragments as well. These bullet fragments were turned over to Orrin Bartlett,
the FBI's liaison officer with the Secret Service (3H p. 435). Bartlet turned
them over to Robert Frazier in person in the FBI lab. These bullet fragments
became CE 567 and CE 569. (See - CD 80; RIF# 180-10001-10041; 2H p. 90
(Kellerman); 5 H p. 67(Frazier); 7 HSCA p. 389Wink
Boring’s stroke may also explain why Boring now has NO recollection of
finding any bullet fragments at all in the limousine (only the skull
fragment), and also may explain why he could not remember, one way or the
other, the condition of the limousine's windshield and chrome strip.17
op-ed about his colleagues
The ARRB interview states, "When shown the HSCA summary of its interview
with Miami SAIC John Marshall, specifically Marshall's twice expressed opinion
that there may have been a Secret Service conspiracy18, Mr. Boring expressed
surprise at those sentiments and said he had never heard that opinion
expressed by SAIC Marshall, a personal friend of his from their previous
association as Pennsylvania State Troopers.
“When shown the HSCA interview summary with Miami field officer SA Ernest
Aragon, specifically Aragon's allegations of Secret Service security lapses
19, he said he would not agree with that statement, and expressed the opinion
that SA Aragon may not have known what he was talking about.
“Mr. Boring was asked to read and comment on several pages of the HSCA
6/1/77 interview transcript20 with former graduate student James Gouchenaur,
in which Gochenaur recounted a very long conversation he reportedly had with
SA Elmer Moore in 1970. Mr. Boring examined the portions of the transcript in
which Gouchenaur quoted Moore as saying that Kennedy was a traitor for giving
things away to the Russians; that it was a shame people had to die, but maybe
it was a good thing; that the Secret Service personnel had to go along with
the way the assassination was being investigated ("I did everything I was
told, we all did everything we were told, or we'd get our heads cut off"); and
that he felt remorse for the way he (Moore) had badgered Dr. Perry into
changing his testimony to the effect that there was not, after all, an
entrance wound in the front of the president's neck. Mr. Boring said that it
would be just like SA Moore to give such a lengthy interview, but that he
doubted very much whether agent Moore had really said those things."
In addition, "Mr. Boring was shown the HSCA interview of SA [George]
Hickey, and was asked to read the portion wherein Mr. Hickey stated that Mr.
Boring came down to the garage and told him statements were being collected in
the White House, and directed (or suggested) that he go and write down his
statement.21 His response to this was that he did not remember even seeing SA
Hickey in the White House garage, nor did he remember seeing SA Kinney, or any
other Secret Service agents, or FBI agents, during the automobile searches
[plural]. He did have some vague recollection of White House police being
there."22
Security Striping measure #1
Agents off the limo: a JFK order or an anecdote?
Evidence against Mr. Boring “not have anything to do with it”, meaning
his involvement in Texas trip planning include his participation, directly and
indirectly through subordinates personally selected by him of what can only be
called security stripping measures. The first of which involves removing
agents from the rear of the limousine.
"Mr. Boring was asked to read pages 136-137 of Clint Hill's Warren
Commission testimony [Vol. 2], in which Clint Hill recounted that Floyd Boring
had told him just days prior to the assassination that during the President's
Tampa trip on Monday, 11/18/63, JFK had requested that agents not ride on the
rear steps of the limousine, and that Boring had also so informed other agents
of the White House detail, and that as a result, agents in Dallas (except
Clint Hill, on brief occasions) did not ride on the rear steps of the
limousine.
MR BORING AFFIRMED THAT HE DID MAKE THESE STATEMENTS TO CLINT HILL, BUT
STATED THAT HE WAS NOT RELAYING A POLICY CHANGE, BUT RATHER SIMPLY TELLING
AN
ANECDOTE ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S KINDNESS AND CONSIDERATION IN TAMPA IN NOT
WANTING AGENTS TO HAVE TO RIDE ON THE REAR OF THE LINCOLN LIMOUSINE WHEN IT
WAS NOT NECESSARY TO DO SO BECAUSE OF A LACK OF CROWDS ALONG THE STREET."
(Emphasis added).
I find this admission startling, especially because the one agent who
decided to ride on the rear of the limousine in Dallas anyway---and on at
least 4 different occasions--- was none other than CLINT HILL himself!
This also does not address what the agents were to do when the crowds
were heavier, or even what exactly constituted a "crowd", as AGENTS DID RIDE
ON THE REAR STEPS OF THE LIMOUSINE IN TAMPA ON NOVEMBER 18, 1963 ANYWAY
(agents Donald J. Lawton, Andrew E. Berger, & Charles T. Zboril, to be
exact)23!
Furthermore, Clint Hill's written report (as well as his testimony) sure
conveys a more strict approach than one stemming from an alleged, kind
anecdote; in fact, Hill twice stated he DID NOT RECALL who the agent was who
told him, and the other agents, not to ride on the rear of the limousine:
"I, Special Agent Clinton J. Hill, never personally was requested by
President John F. Kennedy not to ride on the rear of the Presidential
automobile. I DID RECEIVE INFORMATION PASSED VERBALLY FROM THE ADMINISTRATIVE
OFFICES OF THE WHITE HOUSE DETAIL OF THE SECRET SERVICE TO AGENTS ASSIGNED
TO
THAT DETAIL THAT PRESIDENT KENNEDY HAD MADE SUCH REQUESTS. I DO NOT KNOW
FROM
WHOM I RECEIVED THIS INFORMATION. It was general knowledge on the White House
Detail, however, that President Kennedy has asked Special Agent in Charge
Gerald A. Behn, not to have Special Agents ride on the rear of the
Presidential Automobile [Behn denied to me that President Kennedy made such a
request. Films and photos from 1963 appear to confirm Behn’s story that JFK
never made such a request]. NO WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS REGARDING THIS WERE EVER
DISTRIBUTED.
Hill continues, "I was informed that on November 18, 1963, in Tampa,
Florida, President Kennedy had requested through Assistant Special Agent in
Charge Floyd M. Boring that Special Agents remove themselves from the rear of
the Presidential automobile. I WAS NOT ON THIS SPECIFIC TRIP WITH THE WHITE
HOUSE DETAIL AND RECEIVED THIS INFORMATION AFTER THE PRESIDENT'S RETURN TO
WASHINGTON, D.C. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN BETWEEN NOVEMBER 19, 1963, AND
NOVEMBER
21, 1963 [NOTE TIME FRAME!]. I DO NOT KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHO ADVISED ME OF THIS
REQUEST BY THE PRESIDENT.
So, what do we have exactly? Something allegedly happens on the Tampa
trip, or is attributed to the Tampa trip after the fact by Boring. Yet, no
one on the trip actually left the bumper or recalls being told to leave and
stay off the bumper per a presidential request. The Secret Service agents to
whom this order would apply to deny this happened. This story does exist
though, and spreads through word of mouth, by Boring to agents who were not
involved in the Tampa trip such as Clint Hill to whom it is stated as a new
policy to be implemented on the next trip, which would be Texas.
Look at what Hill writes “I DID RECEIVE INFORMATION PASSED VERBALLY FROM
THE ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES OF THE WHITE HOUSE DETAIL OF THE SECRET SERVICE
TO
AGENTS ASSIGNED TO THAT DETAIL THAT PRESIDENT KENNEDY HAD MADE SUCH
REQUESTS.
Well, who’s in this administrative office of the Secret Service’s White
House Detail? Boring. The “general knowledge” Hill speaks of would more
appropriately be coming from Boring, not Behn. Behn denied it outright.
Boring was on the Tampa trip from which this information is allegedly coming
from.
Boring’s non-denial denial, that it was only an anecdote denoting the
kindness of JFK is refuted by Boring himself when Manchester pens the tale.
Floyd Boring categorically denied what William Manchester reports on pp.
37-38 of his book [1988 edition]: "Kennedy grew weary of seeing bodyguards
roosting behind him every time he turned around, and in Tampa on November 18
[1963], just four days before his death, he dryly asked Agent Floyd Boring to
'keep those Ivy League charlatans off the back of the car.' Boring wasn't
offended. There had been no animosity in the remark."
Boring told me "I never told him that".
As far as the merit of the quote, Boring told me: "No, no, no-that's not
true." When asked, point blank, if JFK had ever ordered the agents off the
rear of the limousine, including in Tampa on 11/18/63, Boring told me "Well,
that's not true. That's not true. He was a very nice man; he never interfered
with us at all."
In regard to Tampa, Floyd said "He actually- No, I told them...He didn't
tell them anything...He just- I looked at the back of the car and I seen these
fellahs (ZBoril and Lawton) were hanging on the limousine- I told them to
return to the (follow-up) car. He (JFK) was a very easy-going guy; he didn't
interfere with our actions at all".
Boring confirmed what he had previously told me on 9/22/93 and 3/4/94
when he wrote that "President Kennedy was a very congenial man knowing most
agents by their first name. He was very cooperative with the Secret Service,
and well liked and admired by all of us.[letter received 11/22/97]"
So, Boring would have you believe it was just routine, as agents would
sometimes hop back and forth from the rear of the limousine to the Secret
Service follow up car. However, again Boring does not really deny the story
as much as he puts a spin on it. All Boring said was he did not speak with
Manchester. The tenor and tone of the story are essentially the same. We
cannot check if Boring did speak with Manchester as Manchester’s materials are
withheld from the public.
So, while it is indeed being spread, as policy, Boring can say afterwards
it was only a harmless retelling of an anecdote. And he can deny it by saying
he never spoke with Manchester. However, Boring is the only one who admits to
any truth to the story, and the only one not to totally deny it. Remember,
Boring is admitting it came from him, and not JFK. Everyone else totally
denies it, it never came from JFK, not even as an anecdotal story.
Boring’s story, whether actual or not, whether anecdotal or not
somehow grows after the Tampa trip into policy. This verbal story is used as
policy, though never written down, for the preparation for the Texas trip,
something which had never occurred before.
Oddly, if this is new policy, it goes into practice only in Dallas.
Clint Hill does recall hearing it, as policy, though he can’t recall from whom
he heard it according to his written report. However, he named none other than Floyd Boring
as THE source during his Warren Commission testimony mentioned above" or words to
that effect. [It's important to note that Hill was twice coy about naming his source in his WRITTEN
statement, yet named the source---Boring---under oath to Arlen Specter
of the WC]. Hill does disobey it 4 times but that does not necessarily mean
the policy did not exist. He may have felt he should be obeying it as he does
not stay on the rear bumper for any appreciable lenght of time. And the other
agents do stay on the follow up car.
Interestingly, in viewing slow motion video footage of the Love Field
departure [WFAA/ABC TV video], one can see agent Henry J. Rybka [25H787]
attempt to get on the back of the limousine only to be recalled by none other
than Emory P. Roberts, who rises in his seat in the follow-up car and hand-
gestures Rybka to cease and desist. Giving Roberts the benefit of the doubt,
it a ppears that Borings' orders to not have any agents ride on the back of
the limousine were well taken.
After the assassination there are reports that JFK had previously made
such requests prior to the Tampa trip. Yet, photos from these trips prove
these statements to be false, as well as the lack of any record or document to
that effect.

The truth - JFK never ordered Secret Service agents off the limo
Gerald A. Behn, SAIC of WHD "I don't remember Kennedy ever saying that he
didn't want anybody on the back of his car. I think if you watch the newsreel
pictures and whatnot [sic] you'll find agents on there from time to time". As
just one of many examples, Behn cited the June 1963 trip to Berlin (There are
many others.)24;
Arthur L. Godfrey, ATSAIC of WHD: "That's a bunch of baloney; that's not
true. He never ordered us to do anything. He was a very nice
man...cooperative". Asked if whether Aide Ken O'Donnell did any similar
ordering, Godfrey said emphatically "he did not order anyone around". As just
one example, Godfrey was on the Italy trip and agents frequently rode on the
rear of the limousine- one of the agents was none other than Winston G. Lawson
25. In a letter dated 11/24/97, Godfrey stated the following: "All I can speak
for is myself. When I was working [with] President Kennedy he never ask[ed] me
to have my shift leave the limo when we [were] working it," thus confirming
what he had also told me telephonically on two prior occasions;
David F. Powers: " Unless they [the Secret Service] were 'running' along
beside the limo, the Secret Service rode in a car behind the President, so,
no, they never had to be told to 'get off' the limo."26
Samuel A. Kinney, WHD: "That is absolutely, positively false...no, no,
no, he had nothing to do with that (ordering agents off the rear of the
limo)...No, never-the agents say, 'O.K., men, fall back on your
posts'...President Kennedy was one of the easiest presidents to ever protect;
Harry S. Truman was a jewel just like John F. Kennedy was...99% of the agents
would agree...(JFK) was one of the best presidents ever to control-he trusted
every one of us".
In regard to the infamous quote from William Manchester, Kinney said,
"That is false. I talked to William Manchester; he called me on the book
[sic]...for the record of history that is false - Kennedy never ordered us to
do anything. I am aware of what is being said but that is false".
Finally, just to nail down this issue, I asked Kinney if an exception was
made on 11/22/63: "Not this particular time, no. Not in this case". Kinney
also told me that JFK had nothing to do with the limiting of motorcycles
during motorcades, and that Ken O'Donnell did not interfere with the agents,
"Nobody ordered anyone around"27;
Robert E. Lilley, WHD: "Oh, I'm sure he didn't. He was very cooperative
with us once he became President. He was extremely cooperative. Basically,
'whatever you guys want is the way it will be'."
Lilley also refuted the Manchester account, adding that on a trip with
JFK in Caracas, Venezuela, he and "Roy Kellerman rode on the back of the
limousine all the way to the Presidential palace" at speeds reaching "50 miles
per hour" (with the bubble-top on [which Lilley believed "might deflect a
bullet."])28;
Donald J. Lawton: When I told Lawton what fellow agent Kinney told me,
that JFK never ordered the agents off the rear of the limousine, he said "It's
the way Sam said, yes". (Meaning he agress with Kinney, it happened the way
Kinney said.)
Asked to explain how he dismounted the rear of the limousine in Tampa, he
said, " I didn't hear the President say it, no. The word was relayed to us-
you know, 'come back to the follow-up car'".
According to Lawton, JFK was "very personable...very warm".
Asked about the tragedy in Dallas, Lawton said, "everyone felt bad. It
was our job to protect the President. You still have regrets, remorse. Who
knows, IF THEY HAD LEFT GUYS ON THE BACK OF THE CAR...you can hindsight
yourself to death" (emphasis added).
And, from his letter to the author dated 11/22/97: "Since I am currently
employed by the Secret Service I do not believe it appropriate that I comment
on former or current protectees of the Service. If you spoke with Bob Lilley
as you stated then you can take whatever information he passed on to you as
gospel.29;
Robert I. Bouck, SAIC of PRS: confirmed that having agents on the back of
the limousine depended on factors independent of any alleged presidential
"requests"30;
Rufus W. Youngblood, ASAIC of LBJ Detail: Youngblood confirmed that
"there was not a standing order" from JFK to restrict agents from the back of
the limousine - the agents had "assigned posts and positions" on the back of
the President's car. On 2/8/94, Youngblood added: "President Kennedy wasn't a
hard ass...he never said anything like that. As a historian, he (Manchester)
flunked the course---don't read Manchester!31";
Abraham W. Bolden, Sr., WHD/ Chicago office: In reference to Kennedy's
alleged "requests", Mr. Bolden told the author that he "didn't hear anything
about that...I never believed that Kennedy said that"32;
John Norris, Uniformed Division of the Secret Service: Norris also joined
his colleagues in refuting the notion that JFK ordered the agents off the rear
of the limo33;
Maurice G. Martineau, SAIC of Chicago office: Martineau joined his
colleagues in refuting the Manchester story that JFK ordered the agents off
the rear of the car.34 Martineau said this to me in two telephonic interviews.
Cecil Stoughton, WH photographer: "I did see a lot of the activity
surrounding the various trips of the President, and in many cases I did see
the agents in question riding on the rear of the President's car. In fact, I
have ridden there a number of times myself during trips...I would jump on the
step on the rear of the [Lincoln] Continental until the next stop. I have made
photos while hanging on with one hand...in Tampa [11/18/63], for example. As
for the [alleged] edict of not riding there by order of the President- I can't
give you any proof of first hand knowledge."
Stoughton went on to write: "I am bothered by your interest in these
matters"(!).
In a later letter, Stoughton merely corroborated his prior written
statements: "I would just jump on and off [the limo] quickly- no routine, and
Jackie had no further remarks to me."35;
It should be explained that according to Stoughton's book [see footnote
35], Jackie had told him to stay close to the limo in July 1963, and he did up
to and including the Tampa trip of 11/18/63 AND the Houston, TX trip of
11/21/63 (there are photos that Stoughton made from the follow-up car that
day, as well). Then, for some unknown reason, Stoughton was relegated to a
position further away from JFK.
Martin E. Underwood, DNC advance man: The advance man confirmed to this
author that JFK did not restrict agents from riding on the Presidential
limousine (He could not believe that Mr. Behn wrote his report with JFK's
alleged "desires", citing Clint Hill's actions on 11/22/63 as just one of
"many times" that agents were posted on the back of the JFK limousine)36;
Press Secretary Pierre Salinger: JFK had a good relationship with the
Secret Service and, more importantly, did NOT argue with their security
measures.37
Jerry D. Kivett, WHD: "[JFK] was beloved by those agents on the detail
and I never heard anyone say that he was difficult to protect."38;
June Kellerman, the widow of Roy H. Kellerman, ASAIC WHD: "Roy did not
say that JFK was difficult to protect."39;
Jean Brownell Behn, widow of the late Gerald A. Behn, SAIC WHD (see
above): Jerry did not like William Manchester's book "The Death of a
President" and confirmed that she also did not believe that JFK had ever
conveyed to Jerry the idea of having the agents not ride on the rear of the
limousine. In a follow-up letter she stated that "The only thing I can tell
you is that Jerry always said 'Don't believe anything you hear and only half
of what you read'40;
Chief James J. Rowley: "No President will tell the Secret Service what
they can or cannot do."41
Charles T. Zboril, WHD, Lawton's partner on the rear of the limo in
Tampa on 11/18/63 was the only agent I spoke to who did not give me a straight
answer, one way or the other, : "Well, Don Lawton and I are just sub-notes
[sic] because somebody else testified in behalf of us about what happened in
Tampa"- this was Clint Hill, testifying to Arlen Specter about why agents were
not on the rear of the car during the assassination.
When I asked him if it was true that JFK had really ordered the agents
off the limousine four days before Dallas, which I already knew not to be
true, Zboril got emotional: "WHERE DID YOU READ THAT? I...If-if you read it in
the Warren Report, that's what happened...DO YOU WANT ME COMMENTING
OFFICIALLY? I'm speaking to someone I don't know... I gave you more than I
would give someone else". Zboril then gave me his address and requested that I
send him anything on this matter and he promised to respond to me...he never
did.
Jim Bishop sums up the situation best: "no one wanted to weigh the
possibilities that, IF A SECRET SERVICE MAN HAD BEEN ON THE LEFT [OR RIGHT]
REAR BUMPER GOING DOWN ELM STREET, it would have been difficult to hit
President Kennedy (emphasis added)42"

FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover to President Lyndon B. Johnson, 1:40 p.m.,
11/29/63: "You see, there was no Secret Service man standing on the back of
the car. Usually the presidential car in the past has had steps on the back,
next to the bumpers, and there's usually been one [agent] on either side
standing on these steps...[ellipsis in text]...Whether the President asked
that that not be done, we don't know."43
In a letter dated 4/3/64, WC general counsel J. Lee Rankin had written to
Secret Service Chief James J. Rowley "requesting further information
concerning expressions by President Kennedy regarding the placement of Secret
Service agents on or near the car during the motorcade", obviously meaning THE
motorcade of 11/22/63.44 Since JFK was conveniently dead and there was nothing
in the record to indicate that Kennedy had said anything that morning, Rowley
mailed back five reports on 4/22/64 to try to "satisfy" the WC, who obviously
were not satisfied by the testimonies of Greer, Kellerman, Hill, or Youngblood
on March 9, 1964.45
These five reports- by agents Boring[dated 4/8/64]46, Roberts [dated
4/10/64]47, Ready [dated 4/11/64]48, Behn [dated 4/16/64]49 and Hill
[undated]50- make much of JFK's alleged comments to agent Boring on 11/18/63
about getting the agents who were riding on the rear of the limo the hell off
of there, as well as "general common knowledge" that this had happened before,
even before the Tampa motorcade.
However, as I uncovered during the interviews for my manuscript, and
which has been demonstrated so far, this was totally fabricated.51 Each and
every one of these reports is a lie, or used for a lie.
Boring already dodgey on Tampa, flat out lies about JFK's trip to Italy.
The ARRB's Doug Horne writes: "Mr. Boring remembered preparing his written
statement, and verified that the copy shown to him was indeed his statement.
"Although primarily about the 11/18/63 Tampa trip, Boring also mentions
another time---the July 1963 Italy trip---where JFK had also made an alleged
request to not have the agents ride on the rear of the limousine.”
However, as with the Tampa trip, agents DID ride on the rear of the
limousine, as recently discovered film from the JFK Library, obtained through
my efforts, reveals ("JFK's Trip to Italy, 7/2/63", courtesy of Jim Cedrone/
JFK Library. This footage was shown at COPA 1996).
Also, compare Boring’s statement here with Arthur L. Godfrey, ATSAIC of
WHD statements on the Italy trip above.
Roberts' report is merely a confirmation of hearing BORING over the radio
in the Tampa motorcade telling the agents to get off the rear of the
limousine-it says nothing of JFK's alleged "desires".
Now deceased, Roberts was the commander of the 7 other agents who rode in
the follow-up car with him in Dallas. Roberts had, according to the driver of
the follow-up car, Samuel A. Kinney, ORDERED THE AGENTS NOT TO MOVE AFTER THE
FIRST SHOT SOUNDED (author's interviews with Sam Kinney, 3/5/94 and 4/15/94)!
Roberts had recognized the first shot as a RIFLE blast (18H p.734-735), yet
recalled agent John D. "Jack" Ready who had begun to move in JFK's direction.
Ready was the agent who was ASSIGNED to JFK's side of the limousine (as Clint
Hill was assigned to Jackie's side[18H749-750]).
Roberts came to Ready's rescue in another report: "SA Ready would have
done the same thing (as Agent Hill did) if motorcycle was not at President's
corner of car"(!) [18 H 738]---- Strange, but this posed no problem at all for
Agent Don Lawton on November 18, 1963, in Tampa (but unfortunately, like
Rybka, Lawton was left at Love Field and was not in the motorcade detail).
This begs the question, were Rybka and Lawton the two agents who were
supposed to have rode the rear of the limousine?
Ready mentions the 11/18/63 Florida trip in his report but HE WASN'T EVEN
THERE! “Although I was not in Tampa, Florida, Monday, November 18, 1963, it
was known to me that President Kennedy requested, through Assistant Special
Agent in Charge Floyd M. Boring, that two agents be removed from the rear
steps of the presidential vehicle during a motorcade in that city.” (emphasis
added)
There is reason to believe Behn did not even write his report as it has a
STAMPED (stamp pad) signature (similar to other reports contained in the WC
volumes and elsewhere; not hand-written). When one considers the fact that a
subordinate agent from the Miami office, SA Robert Jamison, signed a vital
Secret Service document as if he were the SAIC (in this case,John Marshall),
the possibility that someone else merely stamped this type-written report with
Behn's stamp pad signature is certainly not above the realm of possibility.
(Behn's office was shared with ASAIC's Kellerman and Boring).
And Hill’s report is undated.
Behn’s, Boring’s, and Hill’s are not even on any Secret Service or
Treasury Dept. stationary, just blank sheets of paper.
All are supposedly evidence of JFK expressing his desire to keep Secret
Service agents off the limousine in Tampa and previous to Tampa.
And, again, THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT WHAT JFK SAID OR "REQUESTED" ON
NOVEMBER 22, 1963, THE CRITICAL DAY IN QUESTION!
Security Stripping Measure #2
Noisy motorcycles reduced and placed rearward for conversational purposes?
The ARRB interview of Boring goes on to say, "When asked whether the
Secret Service had any standard procedures regarding size and placement of
motorcycle escort for the President's limousine in motorcades, Boring said to
the ARRB that there was no standard protocol for this, since local resources
were different from site to site. He then stated that the Secret Service would
place motorcycles wherever the local authorities would want them, and that the
Secret Service would not try to tell local law enforcement authorities where
to place motorcycles around the limousine---he said that if the Secret Service
had tried to do such a thing, that the local authorities would not have
listened anyway. He said that in regard to matters like this, local
authorities wouldn't take orders from the Secret Service, but instead had to
be coaxed. He also stated that placing motorcycles alongside the limousine
would not have been a good idea, since they were so noisy that the President
would not have been able to have a conversation with the car's occupants."
Now, for the real story:
On November 20th, with no secret service men present, it was agreed that
eighteen motorcycles would be used, some positioned along side the limousine
(similar to the plan used in the prior Texas cities of San Antonio, Houston,
and Fort Worth).
There was another meeting on November 21, 1963 in which those plans were
changed.51
Captain Perdue Lawrence of the Dallas Police testified to the Warren
Commission that 2 days before the assassination he met with Chief Lunday and
Chief Batchelor and discussed the motorcycple plans for the motorcade. “I was
told that there would be these lead motorcycle officers, and that we would
also have these other officers alongside the President's car and the Vice
President's car, and some of the others that would be in the motorcade, and
approximately how many officers would be needed for the escort, and at that
time I had prepared a list of 18 solo motorcycle officers, this included three
solo sergeants.
“I was also instructed that about this motorcade--that when it reached
Stemmons Expressway, Chief Batchelor told me that he wanted a solo motorcycle
officer in each traffic lane, each of the five traffic lanes waiting for the
motorcade, so that no vehicles, on Stemmons Expressway would pass the
motorcade at all and he wanted these solo motorcycle officers to pull away
from the escort and get up there on Stemmons Freeway and block the traffic,
and some of these officers, he stated, would pull past the Presidential car.”
Then on November 21, 1963, a change occurs. “This was the first time
that I had attended any security meeting at all in regards to this motorcade.
At approximately 5 p.m. I was told to report to the conference room on the
third floor, and when I arrived at the conference room the deputy chiefs were
in there, there were members of the Secret Service--Mr. Sorrels, Captain
Gannaway, Captain Souter of radio patrol, and Capt. Glen King, deputy chiefs,
assistant chiefs, and Chief Curry, and one gentleman, who I assume was in
charge of the security for the Secret Service. This was the first time I had
attended any conferences in regard to the security of this escort, and I
listened in on most of the discussion and I heard one of the Secret Service
men say that President Kennedy did not desire any motorcycle officer directly
on each side of him, between him and the crowd, but he would want the officers
to the rear. This conversation I overheard as Chief Batchelor was using a
blackboard showing how he planned to handle this--how plans had been made to
cover the escort.”52
Remember, according to Boring, “the Secret Service would not try to tell
local law enforcement authorities where to place motorcycles around the
limousine-”
Secret Service Agent David Grant, who would have known of Kennedy's
alleged "desires" via Boring (Grant was an advance man for the Florida and
Dallas trips), attended this meeting, along with fellow advance man Win Lawson
(who received his assignment from Boring). 53
DPD Captain Perdue Lawrence testified that the Secret Service told them
to stay to the rear on the evening of 11/21/63.54
DPD Asst. Chief Charles Batchelor wrote in his report that "[DPD Captain
Perdue]Lawrence then said there would be four (4) motorcycles on either side
of the motorcade immediately to the rear of the President's vehicle [as borne
out by his 11/21/63 report]. MR. LAWSON Of THE SECRET SERVICE STATED THAT THIS
WAS TOO MANY, that HE thought two (2) motorcycles on either side would be
sufficient, about even with the rear fender of the President's car. (emphasis
added)"55
DPD Captain Perdue Lawrence's report regarding motorcycle distribution
DATED NOVEMBER 21, 1963, the day before the assassination [handwritten
comments from 7/24/64]stated “In addition to DPD motorcycles officers B.W.
Hargis and B.J. Martin, H.B. MCLAIN56 AND J.W. COURSON WERE SLATED TO RIDE ON
THE LEFT SIDE OF JFK'S LIMOUSINE. Also, in addition to DPD motorcycle officers
D.L. Jackson and J. Chaney, C.A. HAYGOOD AND M.L. BAKER WERE SLATED TO RIDE ON
THE RIGHT SIDE OF JFK'S LIMOUSINE!57
If that weren't enough, both DPD motorcycle officer's M.L. Baker and B.J.
Martin testified to the Warren Commission (and stated in private interviews)
that there was a last-minute change made at Love Field: they were told to STAY
TO THE REAR OF THE LIMOUSINE.
Marion Baker told the Commission that he was told on November 22, 1963 at
about 8:00 a.m., “My partner and I, we received instructions to ride right
beside the President's car.” However, when he got to Love Field “When we got
to the airport, our sergeant instructed me that there wouldn't be anybody
riding beside the President's car.”58 Baker was advised of this 5 or 10
minutes before the motorcade left the airport.
Martin told the Commission, “They [plural=Secret Service]instructed us
that they didn't want anyone riding past the President's car and that we were
to ride to the rear, to the rear of his car, about the rear bumper.”59
Martin told Jean Hill, “.they told us out at Love Field right after
Kennedy's plane landed...Well, while Kennedy was busy shaking hands with all
the wellwishers at the airport, Johnson's Secret Service people came over to
the motorcycle cops and gave us a bunch of instructions...They also ordered us
into the damdest escort formation I've ever seen. Ordinarily, you bracket the
car with four motorcycles, one on each fender. But this time, they told the
four of us [Martin, Hargis, Chaney, & Jackson] assigned to the President's car
there'd be no forward escorts. We were to stay well to the back and not let
ourselves get ahead of the car's rear wheels under any circumstances. I'd
never heard of a formation like that, much less ridden in one, but they said
they wanted to let the crowds have an unrestricted view of the president.
Well, I guess somebody got an 'unrestricted view' of him, all right."60
Oddly, when these gentlemen were interviewed by the HSCA the story
changes to it was JFK who wanted no motorcycles alongside the car, and not the
Secret Service.61 One wonders whether they changed their stories, or if they
had their stories changed for them by the HSCA. We now know the HSCA lied
about the Bethesda witnesses supposedly all agreeing as to the nature of JFK’s
head wound. It would not be a stretch of the imagination if it turns out the
HSCA lied by changing what Baker and Martin had to say about no motorcycle
placement alongside the presidential limousine.

DPD Chief Curry testified to the WC62 about the matter---included in the
actual transcript is a bizarre error involving a clumsy edit (in italics):
Mr. Curry. In the planning of this motorcade, we had had more motorcycles
lined up to be with the President's car, but the Secret Service didn't want
that many.
Mr. Rankin. Did they tell you why?
Mr. Curry. We actually had two on each side but we wanted four on each
side and they asked us to drop out some of them and back down the motorcade,
along the motorcade, which we did.
Mr. Rankin. How many motorcycles did you have?
Mr. Curry. I think we had four on each side of him.
Mr. Rankin. How many did you want to have?
Mr. Curry. We actually had two on each side side but we wanted four on
each side and they asked us to drop out some of them and back down the
motorcade, along the motorcade, which we did.
Mr. Rankin. So that you in fact only had two on each side of his car?
Mr. Curry. Two on each side and they asked them to remain at the rear
fender so if the crowd moved in on him they could move in to protect him from
the crowd.
Mr. Rankin. Who asked him to stay at the rear fender?
Mr. Curry. I believe Mr. Lawson.
Mr. Rankin. The Secret Service man?
Mr. Curry. Yes, sir.

And what did Secret Service agent Winston G. Lawson have to say about
this, IN REGARD TO NOVEMBER 22, 1963? DULLES: "...do you recall that any
orders were given by or on behalf of the President with regard to the location
of those motorcycles that were particularly attached to his car?'
LAWSON: "NOT SPECIFICALLY AT THIS INSTANCE ORDERS FROM HIM."
[emphasis added---Lawson would go on to say "it was my understanding that he
did not like a lot of motorcycles surrounding the car", something not borne
out by very recent prior motorcades from 11/18-11/22/63]63
The HSCA summed up the situation best:
"The Secret Service's alteration of the original Dallas Police Department
motorcycle deployment plan prevented the use of maximum possible security
precautions...Surprisingly, the security measure used in the prior motorcades
during the same Texas visit (11/21/63) shows that the deployment of
motorcycles in Dallas by the Secret Service may have been uniquely
insecure...The Secret Service knew more than a day before November 22 that the
President did not want motorcycles riding alongside or parallel to the
Presidential vehicle...(emphasis added)"64
And, as regards the Dallas Police, in keeping with all prior motorcades in
1963, DPD Captain Glen King stated that the Secret Service was primarily
responsible for the President's security, while the role of the DPD was a
supportive one.65

Security Stripping #3
Press & Photographers out of the picture (literally):
DMN reporter Tom Dillard---"We lost our position at the airport. I
understood we were to have been quite a bit closer. We were assigned as the
prime photographic car which, as you probably know, NORMALLY A TRUCK PRECEDES
THE PRESIDENT ON THESE THINGS [MOTORCADES] AND CERTAIN REPRESENTATIVES OF
THE
PHOTOGRAPHIC PRESS RIDE WITH THE TRUCK. In this case, as you know, we didn't
have any and this car that I was in was to take photographs which was of spot-
news nature." [Emphasis added].66
Dillard forcefully said the same thing on C-Span on 11/20/93 telling the
TV audience that the flatbed truck was "canceled at the last minute" and they
were put in Chevrolet convertibles "which totally put us out of the picture."
[all previous trips, inc. Florida, has press/photographers very close in front
and behind JFK's limousine, inc. WH photographer Cecil Stoughton, who rode in
the SS follow-up car from July 1963 until 11/21/63.]67
Henry Burroughs, AP photographer (rode in Camera Car #2)---"I was a
member of the White House pool aboard Air Force One when we arrived with JFK
in Dallas on that fateful day. We, the pool, were dismayed to find our pool
car shoved back to about #11 position in the motorcade. We protested, but it
was too late." 68
Cecil Stoughton, WH photographer (rode in Camer Car #2)--- "I did see a
lot of the activity surrounding the various trips of the President, and in
many cases I did see the agents in question riding on the rear of the
President's car. In fact, I have ridden there a number of times myself during
trips...I would jump on the step on the rear of the [Lincoln] Continental
until the next stop. I have made photos while hanging on with one hand...in
Tampa [11/18/63], for example...I would just jump on and off [the limo]
quickly- no routine,..."69
Security Stripping #4
Will Fritz's men out of the motorcade:
Seth Kantor's notes----"Will Fritz's men called off nite before by SS.
Had planned to ride closed car w/ machine guns in car behind Pres." [which
could mean someplace behind JFK's car, as was the case in Chicago, IL, on 3/23/63 and in
New York on 11/15/63]70

Security Stripping #5
Other vehicle shuffling:
Milton Wright, Texas Highway Patrolman (driver of Mayor Cabell's car)---
"As I recall, prior to the President arriving at the airport we were already
staged on the tarmac. I do not recall what position I was in at that time but
it was not #1[the number taped to his car's windshield]. At the last minute
there was a lot of shuffling and I ended up in the 5th vehicle. My vehicle was
the last to leave downtown after the shooting because the police set up a road
block behind my car."71
Secret Service Agent Roger Warner stated in his report that, while at
Love Field during the forming of the motorcade, "I undertook duties to aid SA
Lawson...in lining up cars for the motorcade, passing out numbers for the
automobiles, and other general duties..."72
During an interview conducted on 9/27/92, Lawson confirmed his handling
of the automobile numbers and identification pins in Dallas on 11/22/63.
When we consider that a number of the vehicles - including the
Presidential limousine - were out of their original, numerical order, the
trail of suspicion leads to these two men.73 Lawson was in charge of the "car
numbers for the windows" at Love Field. 74
There was even more security stripping attributed to the Secret Service.
The Secret Service "prevented the Dallas Police Department from inserting into
the motorcade, behind the Vice-Presidential car, a Dallas Police Department
squad car containing homicide detectives. Agent Lawson didn't know who
canceled the Dallas Police Department car...
Security Stripping #6
Personnel shuffling: an addition, and subtracting people from where they
normally would be
General Godfrey McHugh (rode in VIP car)--- was asked to sit in a car
farther back in the motorcade, rather than "normally, what I would do between
the driver and Secret Service agent in charge of trip"- he admitted this was
"unusual";75 "Ordinarily McHugh rode in the Presidential limousine in the
front seat. This was the first time he was instructed not to ride in the car
so that all attention would be focused on the President to accentuate full
exposure."76
Lt. Col. George Whitmeyer (rode in pilot car)--- "Mr. Lawson acknowledged
that Lt. Col. George Whitmeyer, who was part of the Dallas District U.S. Army
Command, who Lawson said "taught Army Intelligence" and who rode in the pilot
car, "wasn't scheduled" to be in the motorcade. [as 17 H 615, Lawson's
scheduled motorcade list, bears out]. Mr. Lawson denied that the presence of
Col. Whitmeyer had anything to do with Lawson's prior service in the CIC, Army
Counter Intelligence Corps."77; "My father passed away in 1978 and therefore
the answers to your questions are somewhat based on personal recollection of
his information given to me. In regards to your first question, my father was
invited by Col. George Lumpkin (ret.) (deceased) to ride in the point [sic]
car of the motorcade. He was not a scheduled participant. I think that Col.
Lumpkin was with the Dallas Police Department at the time."78

Security Stripping #7
Motorcade route: largely kept secret, even from the Dallas police. Changes
made to it.
DPD Chief Jesse Curry---testified that he was not even consulted about
the motorcade route!79; learned of the route 11/21/63 via agents' Win Lawson
and Forrest Sorrels.80
DPD Asst. Chief Charles Batchelor---"From an administrative standpoint,
(DPD's Charles) Batchelor believed that the failure of the Secret Service to
inform the police adequately in advance of the exact route to be taken by the
president prevented them from adequately organizing their men and taking the
necessary security precautions."81

DPD Sergeant Samuel Q. Bellah, one of the three advance motorcycle
officers in the motorcade---"On the night before his assignment, Bellah
reviewed the planned route with his captain. The route was not the original
one that was to go straight through Dealey Plaza, but a revised route. The
original plan would have skirted the Texas Book Depository building by a
block, but the altered plan turned to pass directly in front of the
building."82
DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale--- "Two or three days prior to the President's visit we'd ridden
with the Secret Service checking to see where the turns and problem areas might be. We had three possible
routes, but we didn't know which one we were going to take, and we were not briefed on it. But
by riding during the week, I kept hearing the phrase "escape routes," which dawned on me
later that should something happen to any part of the motorcade we had an escape route to either
Baylor or Parkland Hospitals...Once we were assembled and the President was ready to go, we
started the motorcade by going out a gate at the far end. At that time, we didn't know which
route we were taking; we had three: right, straight, or left. As we were leaving, the word came
over the radio that we would use the particular route that went left. ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed
(1998), pp. 132-133]"
Governor John Connally---Stated that he was never informed about the
exact route to be used on 11/22/63.83
DNC advanceman Marty Underwood told Harrison Livingstone: "There were so many things that fell
through in Dallas. Any advance man who had any sense at all would never have taken him down that
route." When Livingstone commented that the route was changed, Underwood added: "YEAH, I KNOW.
You don't take a guy down a route like that."("High Treason 2", by Harry Livingstone, page 442: emphasis
added)
SAIC Jerry Behn---(regarding his unpublished, executive session testimony
before the HSCA) Behn told the author that he was asked two things: first,
the details about the Florida trip of November 18, 1963; second, why the
motorcade route was changed for the Dallas trip! When the author inquired
about the second point since it is another crucial matter of security, Behn
responded: "I know it was changed but why - I've forgotten completely - I
don't know."84
Security Stripping #8
Overpass not cleared/ protected properly:
Winston G. Lawson----"I recall thinking we were coming to an overpass
now, so I glanced up to see if it was clear, the way most of them had been,THE
WAY ALL OF THEM HAD BEEN UP UNTIL THAT TIME ON THE WAY DOWNTOWN, AND IT
WAS
NOT...And I was looking for the officer WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE, HAD BEEN
REQUESTED TO BE THERE...and I made a kind of motion through the windshield
trying to get his attention to move the people from over our path THE WAY IT
SHOULD HAVE BEEN...we were just approaching this overpass when I heard a
shot." [emphasis added].85


Security Stripping #9
Buildings along the motorcade route not checked at all.

Lawson told both the Warren Commission and the House Assassinations
Committee that he could not recall giving instructions to watch building
windows, "although it was his usual practice to do so". Dallas Police Captain
Lawrence confirms that no instructions were given.86
Security Stripping #10
The most egregious lie, no active death threats against JFK to be found in the
PRS files of the Secret Service.
Boring was in charge of the advance for Chicago, Florida and Texas trip.
The Chicago trip planned for early November 1963 was cancelled. There
were two separate threats against JFK’s life involving arrests of several
suspects.
The Florida trip revealed a threat against JFK’s life that was recorded
by a police informant.
Grant is there for all three trips.
Lawson’s check with the Service’s PRS for threats against JFK lands on
Boring’s desk. Boring is directly involved in 2 of the 3 known checks with
the PRS section.
The first check was made on November 8, 1963. Boring replied, "there
wouldn't be any information available of any consequence". The second check
is done by Kellerman two days later on November 10th. The agent later
admitted that it was "unusual" not to have found anything in the PRS files. (2
H 107 - 108). A third check was done by Rufus Youngblood on the morning of
November 22, 1963, again nothing.
Yet, Lawson knows nothing of any threat to JFK [see addendum below].

Conclusion
The common links to security stripping? Boring, Lawson, and Grant.
ASAIC Floyd Boring can be tied directly to at least 10 instances of
stripping security away from JFK.
The advance team of Secret Service agents' Winston G. Lawson and David B.
Grant, who worked hand-in-glove with ASAIC Floyd Boring, were the in-the-field
architects for the planning and implementation of security concerns (read
stripping) in Dallas. In fact, although Grant physically joined Lawson on
11/18/63, fresh from his participation with Boring on the Florida trip (inc.
the controversial Tampa stop)87, he was actually working with Lawson and
Boring earlier: Lawson's Final Survey Report of 11/19/63, includes this
statement: "This survey was conducted by SA Winston Lawson and SAIC Forrest
Sorrels, and assisted by SA David Grant, from November 13 through November 22,
1963..."88
And, as we know, Lawson and Grant had a hand in the motorcycle depletion
and realignment, the overpass security, or lack of it, the press' and
photographers (dis)placement, and the planning of the motorcade route.89
Does Mr. Boring think there was a conspiracy in the death of JFK?
Of course not.
"Mr. Boring made clear during the [ARRB] interview that he felt Lee Harvey
Oswald had shot President Kennedy acting alone, and that there was no shot
from the grassy knoll."
"...I concur 100 % with the Warren Report."90
"...I would go with the Warren Commission's report."91
At least on THAT point, Mr. Boring is remarkably consistent.
Endnotes
1.) 18 H 803-809; "The Death of a President" by Wiliam Manchester (Perennial,
1988 edition), p. 37
2.) See also "The Third Alternative-Survivor's Guilt: The Secret Service & The
JFK Murder" by Vince Palamara (1993/1997, Lancer), pp. 77-80. This article /
chapter has since been expanded upon: see the "1999 update" at "The Vince
Palamara Webpages":
http://www.njmetronet.com/palamara/
3.) See pages xvii and 138 of ARRB's Final Report
4.) 1998 edition of "High Treason" by Harrison Edward Livingstone & Robert
Groden, pp. 432-433. The ARRB's interview of Floyd Boring is in the ARRB
medical documents and depositions released in July of 1998. It is MD 259
5.) DNC advance man Marty Underwood, interviewed by the author on 10/9/92, and
author William Manchester: see the ARRB's Final Report, pp. 112, 117,and 135
http://www.fas.org/sgp/advisory/arrb98/index.html
6.) 18 H 806
7.) see also pp. 66-67 of Boring's Truman Library Oral History. Readers will
recall from my May 1995 article "Boring Is Interesting" that Gerald Posner
contacted Boring during the writing of "Case Closed", although this was not
revealed in any way in the book (Boring told me that he merely relayed him on
to Hamilton Brown, the Executive secretary of the Former Agents' Assoc.---this
is duly noted on p. 503. For more on this matter, see the author's article in
the April 1998 issue of "JFK/ Deep Politics Quarterly."
http://www.njmetronet.com/palamara/posner.html
8.) Although he did speak to Chief U.E. Baughman for "Secret Service
Chief"(1962/1963, pp. 68-69), and David McCullough for "Truman" (1992, pp.
364, 385, 434-435, 802, 808-810, and 908) regarding Pres. Truman. Other than
to the JFK Library (2/25/76 [released 1/98], the Truman Library (9/21/88), the
Discovery Channel program "Inside The Secret Service" (1995), PBS' "Truman",
and this author, no one else has ever interviewed Boring before (and only the
JFK Library, myself, and the ARRB went into any detail regarding the JFK
admin. and the assassination). Despite Manchester's QUOTE attributed to Boring
on p. 37 of his book (see above), Boring confirmed to me twice that he NEVER
spoke to Manchester.
9.) Boring said basically the same thing in both his presidential Oral
Histories cited above.
10.) see also 4 H 336, 337, & 342
11.) see Manchester, p. 389
12.) CD 80; RIF# 180-10001-10041
13.) "The Day Kennedy Was Shot" by Jim Bishop (Perennial 1992 edition), pp.
511-512; Manchester, 1988 edition, p. 390
14.) Sam Kinney found a piece of skull in the rear of the presidential
limousine while still on board the C-130 on the flight back to AAFB: see "The
Third Alternative-Survivor's Guilt: The Secret Service and the JFK Murder"
15.) Paterni was also a former member of the O.S.S., the predecessor of the
CIA, and was involved in other matters related to 11/22/63: see the author's
article "The Secret Service: In Their Own Words", Spring 1998 "Kennedy
Assassination Chronicles" journal (also available at "Vince Palamara's
Secret Service & General Research Files":
gopher://freenet.akron.oh.us:70/11/SIGS/JFK/Only/VP
16.) see footnote 12: Washington Field Office SAIC Harry Geglein did write a
report about the limo inspection, mentioning Boring, Paterni, and Kinney,
among others.
17.) 2 H 90 (Kellerman); 5 H 67(Frazier); 7 HSCA 389; the two bullet fragments
retrieved from the front seat of the limousine and turned over to FBI SA
Frazier by Paterni & Boring were designated CE567 & CE 569
18.) RIF#180-10074-10393: 2/22/78 HSCA interview of Marshall
19.) RIF#10078-10450: 3/25/78 HSCA interview of Aragon
20.) RIF#180-10109-10310
21.) 18 H 761-765 (Hickey); see also 18 H 722-802 and 25 H 786-788: these are
all the Secret Service reports submitted to the WC
22.) see footnotes 12 & 16
23.) The "Tampa Tribune", 11/19/63 (downtown area picture w/ agents Lawton &
Zboril holding onto the rear handrails); Cecil Stoughton photo, taken from the
follow-up car, 11/18/63 (suburban area picture depicting same); short clip in
David Wolper's 1964 film "Four Days In November" depicting the start of the
Tampa trip: agent Zboril is running on the left-rear end of the limo, holding
onto the handrail, while agent Berger is riding on the opposite side; agent
Lawton is seen running along Berger's side; B & W photos discovered by Ian
Griggs and Frank Debenedictis.
24.) interview with author 9/27/92
25.) interviews with author 5/30/96;6/7/96;11/24/97-letter
26.) letter to author 9/10/93
27.) interviews with author 10/19/92, 3/5/94 and 4/15/94
28.) interviews with author 9/27/92;9/21/93;6/7/96
29.) interview with author 11/15/95; 11/22/97-letter
30.) interview with author 9/27/92
31.) interviews with author 10/22/92 and 2/8/94
32.) interviews with author 9/16/93 and 4/10/94; 9/10/93, 10/30/93, 12/13/93,
12/31/93, 8/94, and 1/97: letters and correspondence
33.) interview with author 3/4/94
34.) interviews with author 9/21/93 and 6/7/96; However, in his 11/23/97
letter to the author, he stated: "I have heard RUMORS as to his Dallas trip in
which he declined to use his armored car and/ or agents on the car's rear
platform (emphasis added)."
35.) 12/2/95 and 11/20/97 letters to author; rode close to Kennedy's car from
July 1963 until November 22, 1963, authorized by a specific request from MRS.
Kennedy [The Memories, 1961-1963, by Cecil Stoughton w/ Ted Clifton and Hugh
Sidey (1973), p. 160; see also Stoughton's motorcade films of the trip to
Italy (July 1963), as well as his still photos taken from the follow-up car in
Tampa, FL (11/18/63) and in Houston, TX (11/21/63) via the JFK Library
[unpublished; in author's collection]
36.) interview with author 10/9/92
37.) author's correspondence with Roger Peterson, 2/99 (based off Peterson's
very recent conversations with Salinger).
38.) letter to author dated 12/8/97
39.) letter to author dated 12/2/97
40.) interview with author 11/18/95; letter to author dated 11/28/97
41.) 5 H 470
42.) Bishop, 1992 edition, p. 558
43.) "Taking Charge: The Johnson White House Tapes, 1963-1964" by Michael R
Beschloss, editor, (Simon & Schuster), pp. 56-57
44.) 18 H 803-809
45.) 2 H 61-155
46.) Borings’ report 18H p.806
47.) Robert’s report 18H p.807.

48.) Ready’s report 18H p. 808

49.) Behn’s report 18H p.804-805 [RIF # 180-10074-10393]
50.) Hill’s report 18 H p. 809
see above; why Hill's report is undated remains unknown
51.) 18 H 789 Grant does not mention the reduction of the motorcycles in
discussing the November 21, 1963 meeting;"JFK Assassination File" by DPD Chief
Jesse Curry (1969), pp.15-16. Curry does and records Grant’s pressence.
52.) 7 H 580-581
53.) 7 H 580-581
54.) 21 H 571
55.) Lawrence Exhibit #2 20H p. 489 (same as the HSCA's JFK Exhibit F-679)
56.) See also "No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 162 (based off
interview with McLain)

57.) 3 H 244; 10/98 letter to the author; "No More Silence" by Larry Sneed
(1998), p. 123 (based off interview with Baker); 11 HSCA 528
58. 3H244
59) 6 H 293; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p.33
(based off interview with Martin); 11 HSCA 528
60.) From Martin's alleged paramour, Jean Hill: "JFK: The Las...


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Reply
#82
Bernice Moore Wrote:''Neither the Secret Service nor the CIA killed John Kennedy. People linked to those agencies, however, in fact are among those guilty of the president's murder.''

Your point being?
Reply
#83
Mark Stapleton Wrote:How could Greer have shot JFK without Nellie Connally or Jackie seeing it?

Jackie Kennedy's testimony to the Warren Commission contains this wonderful fabrication-cum-interpolation:

Quote:Mr. Rankin: Do you recall anyone saying anything else during the time of the shooting?

Mrs. Kennedy: No; there weren't any words. There was just Governor Connally's. And then I suppose Mrs. Connally was sort of crying and covering her husband. But I don't remember any words. And there was a big windshield between--you know--I think. Isn't there?

Mr. Rankin: Between the seats.

Mrs. Kennedy: So you know, those poor men in the front, you couldn't hear them.

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. V - Page 181

http://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/...age181.php

Did JBK really say or believe a windshield lay between the occupants of the front seats and the rest of the car? I doubt it.

But one sees immediately the utility of such a concoction.
Reply
#84
The more elegant interpretation is that JBK was confused.

Sorry, my brother-in-arms, but I ain't buyin' what you're sellin'.
Reply
#85
Bernice Moore Wrote:The common links to security stripping? Boring, Lawson, and Grant.
ASAIC Floyd Boring can be tied directly to at least 10 instances of
stripping security away from JFK.
The advance team of Secret Service agents' Winston G. Lawson and David B.
Grant, who worked hand-in-glove with ASAIC Floyd Boring, were the in-the-field
architects for the planning and implementation of security concerns (read
stripping) in Dallas.

Thanks for all that info, Bernice.

David B Grant--if that was his real name--did everything possible to help facilitate the hit. He and Emory Roberts were involved, imo.
Reply
#86
Charles Drago Wrote:
Bernice Moore Wrote:''Neither the Secret Service nor the CIA killed John Kennedy. People linked to those agencies, however, in fact are among those guilty of the president's murder.''

Your point being?

''The common links to security stripping? Boring, Lawson, and Grant.
ASAIC Floyd Boring can be tied directly to at least 10 instances of
stripping security away from JFK.
The advance team of Secret Service agents' Winston G. Lawson and David B.
Grant, who worked hand-in-glove with ASAIC Floyd Boring, were the in-the-field
architects for the planning and implementation of security concerns (read
stripping) in Dallas.''

the stripping of his protection enabled the assassination, without such it could not have been completed as your post stated""People linked to those agencies, however, in fact are among those guilty of the president's murder.''[/QUOTE]""i believe the information i posted in reply perhaps points to some who were involved having the control and ability to have done so..the SS were ordered to step down and did so....from boring to roberts there imo lay that power for it to be accomplished.....as it was...b
Reply
#87
MARK I JUST LOST MY REPLY TO YOU.....:flybyeBig GrinUH........THANKS YOU GOT IT......B ............ATTACHED OLD COMP PHOTO OF THE SS AROUND K AT THE TIME.....


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#88
MARK FYI...II B


BREAKDOWN "FULL DISCLOSURE" - CHAPTER 3 THE "BREAKDOWN" OF THEINFRASTRUCTURE OF THE SECRETSERVICE ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963
byVince Palamara
While it is a relatively easy task to point out the Secret Service'sgeneral deficiencies in regard to the tragic events of November 22, 1963in Dallas, Texas, it has been a more difficult feat to lay bare all of thespecific things that went wrong in regard to security. This has beenachieved primarily through a combination of luck, hard work, and,perhaps most importantly, dealing with primary sources (documents)and primary people (the actual former agents themselves). However,one very significant element has been missing up to now due in no smallpart to the constant evolution of my own thinking on the subject: who inthe agency benefited? Who did not? JUST HOW WERE THESE LAPSES INSECURITY ALLOWED TO HAPPEN?
After discarding the options of mere innocence, guilt, negligence,and, more recently, the notion of a "benign" security-stripping test that "backfired" into the assassination, I have now come to the FIRM conclusion,based on seven-plus years of heavy, primary research and numerousinterviews, that the Secret Service actions (and inactions) in Texas weredue largely to a significant breakdown in both the chain of command and therespect of superior authority. In addition, I believe a "malignant" test of the President's security was involved on/'around November 22, 1963, with the actual intent to HARM AND/OR EMBARRASS President Kennedy,rather thanmerely shaking him into seeing that the Service needed more funds, equipment,and personnel (benefits which would arise from any attempt to harm JFK,successful or otherwise). Furthermore, it is now my strong belief, aftershaking off years of equivocation, that several agents HAD to have beeninvolved in the ACTUAL assassination by getting wind of the impendingthreat and letting it happen, not by an unruly mob out to treat Kennedylike Adlai Stevenson (the byproduct of a "malignant" test), but by a "flurryof shells", to quote Agent Kellerman in a much different kind of context.
If Dallas was the "Superbowl" (a very appropriate analogy), then the"game" was not merely rigged, it was fixed from the very start by a combi-nation of inexperienced "third-stringers" and "bench-warmers". These men, knowingly or unknowingly, let the assassination happen through sheer incompetence, inexperience, and a desire to usurp the authority presented by the chain of command, whether those in this command were present in Texas or "out of the loop" in another part of the country at the crucial moment or moments. Key elements of this "team" chose to call their OWN "plays" in Dallas and, just as in the game of football, the consequences of defeat can wreak havoc on General Management (Treasury officials), the coaches (the brass), and, ultimately, certain players (the agents themselves). A look at the consequences of Dallas--the breakdown of the infrastructure of the Secret Service--is now in order.
C. DOUGLAS DILLON, the Secretary of the Treasury, was responsiblefor the overall operations of the Secret Service during the Kennedy presidency.Dillon was certainly "out of the loop" on 11/22/63--he was on a crowdedCabinet plane bound for Japan via Hawaii with Dean Rusk, Orville Freeman,and most of the major players, including Press Secretary Pierre Salinger,whose absence on the Texas trip planning was profound. Agent Bob Lilleytold me that Salinger, who normally made these trips, was "extremelyknowledgable" about proper motorcade planning and security concerns,as the agency had "worked closely with Pierre on all our advance work"---except in Dallas [author's interviews with Lilley, 1992-1996]. As WilliamManchester accurately reported, even Andy Hatcher, the number two man, wasleft behind, ostensibly because he was a Negro, leaving a "third-stringer",Malcolm Kilduff, to make his first major trip on his own (The Death of aPresident, 1988 edition, p.12; author's interviews with Sam Kinney,1992-1994. Interestingly, a Negro agent, Robert R. Faison, was aprominent member of the Secret Service on the Texas trip). In Dillon'splace, ASST. SEC. ROBERT A. WALLACE had, among other duties, issued an"official" denial to the press at 3:33 p.m. that an agent was killed in Dallas, as the AP, UPI, and all the networks were continually reporting as fact--at this time, AFI was on its way back to Washington with JFK's body [NBC video, 3:40 p.m.] Another deputy, ACTING SEC. G. d'ANGELOT BELIN also "stepped in" in Dillon's absence during crucial parts of 1963 and 1964 [18H810-815; 933-934]; in fact, this man was "confused" by ChiefRowley as being the General Counsel of the Warren Commission(18H810-815]!
Fallout? Although Dillon, a member of the "Stop Castro" lobbyin Washington [Destiny Betrayed by Jim DiEugenio, p. 334] and theprimary member of the "Dillon Committee" that whitewashed andcovered-up the agency's performance on November 22 (ironicallyformalized on November 22, 1964), a duty he would repeat for anotheragency as a member of the Rockefeller Commission with another Belin(David), he was replaced in January 1965 by UNDERSECRETARY HENRY"JOE" H. FOWLER.
CHIEF JAMES J ROWLEY was a close, personal friend of J EDGARHOOVER who usually left day-to-day operations up to his top men, excepton important trips (i.e. Germany, June, 1963) [author's interview withRowley 9/27/92]. However, although quite aware of both the Chicago(11/2/63) AND the Florida (11/18/63) threats before Dallas ["TheThird Alternative" by the author, p. 53; HSCA audio tape of Rowley, 9/78],Rowley was left "out of the loop" back in Washington, D.C., attending aluncheon on 11/22/63 [Truman Library Oral History, 1988]. Meanwhile,DEPUTY CHIEF PAUL PATERNI, a member of the OSS during WWII and aformer partner of James Jesus Angleton and Ray Rocca ["Who's Who in theCIA"], would provide the only significant hands-on participation from theChief's office on 11/22/63: he was principally involved in the limousineinspection at the White House Garage with Floyd Boring whereupon bulletfragments, skull particles, and vehicle damage was "noted" before the FBIgot their hands on the car [CD8O, p. 3].
Fallout? Rowley took much heat before, during, and after his FBI, WC, andHSCA appearances, in place of many of his more deserving deputies [see alsoThe Day Kennedy Was Shot, by Jim Bishop, 1988 edition, p. 558]. He wasultimately replaced during the Watergate crisis by H. STUART KNIGHT (moreon him later).
SAIC GERALD A. BEHN went against protocol, not by removing himself from the 11/18/63 Florida trip (manned by Floyd Boring), but by his absence--- coinciding with his first full vacation---on the Texas trip (Behn was also in Washington "out of the loop"). Former Chief U. E. Baughman stated that the SAIC [Behn] or his immediate assistant [Boring] always accompany the President when he leaves Washington [Secret Service Chief by Baughman, p.129]; in fact, a prominent member of the press corps in Dallas, Jerry ter Horst, wrote that Behn, who "traditionally accompanied" JFK, "would never forgive himself or be forgiven by others" for missing the Texas trip [The Flying White House, p 214]. Instead, yet another "third stringer", ASAIC [#3] ROY H. KELLERMAN, was making his first major trip on his own without either Behn OR Boring [author's interviews with Sam Kinney, 1992- 1994]!
ASAIC [#2] FLOYD M. BORING, although also back in Washington, waslN CHARGE OF PLANNING THE TEXAS TRIP [author's interviews with Boringand Kinney, 1993-1994; Truman Library Oral History, 1988, p. 63; TheDay Kennedy Was Shot", 1988 edition, p. 558]! Boring had given ADVANCEAGENT WINSTON G. LAWSON the Dallas assignment [4H342] and had beenworking prominently with another advance agent, David B. Grant, Lawson'soften forgotten partner of 11/13-11/ 22 [17H601], on Kennedy's (cancelled)trip to Chicago (11/2) and Florida (11/18) AND Texas (11/21-11/22);Grant was the sole advance agent on the first two of these three major trips.In addition, Boring was involved both in the critical checks of the PRSfor potential threats to JFK for Dallas-which yielded NOTHING-and theimportant Trade Mart (vs. Women's Building) decision, which ultimatelydetermined the motorcade route choice(s), the speed of the car(s), andthe security of the (inferior) building selected (4H337; 21H546;11HSCA516; 2H1 07-108; 11 HSCA5l6; 2H107-108; 11H5CA523; TheThird Alternative, pp 11, 50; "Boring is Interesting", May 1995 FourthDecade]. Among other things, not the least of which was Behn's adamantstance against the Trade Mart, Boring HAD to have known of the prior(11/2-11/18/63) threats against JFK, as did his afore- mentionedpartner:
ADVANCE AGENT DAVID B. GRANT--joined Lawson late on the night of11/16/63 and was involved in the extremely important meetings (with BettyForsling Harris, the DPD, and others) which resulted in the following:a deleted squad car, the changes in the motorcade's order of vehicles, the depletion of 18 motorcycles for JFK down to a measley 4 non-flanking units, and the removal of the press, photographers, Cecil Stoughton, Dr. Burkley, Godfrey McHugh, and Ted Clifton towards the rear of the motorcade in defiance of traditional protocol--being close to JFK [The Third Alternative pp. 18, 49; "Boring is Interesting", May 1995 Fourth Decade; Deep Politics and the Death Qf JFK by Peter Dale Scott, pp. 277-278; HSCA interview w/Winston Lawson, 1/31/ 78-new documents just released]. While Lawson, a former Army counter-intelligence agent [4H318] rode in the lead car, Grant was stationed at the Trade Mart on 11/ 22/63 (1nterestingly, as revealed in the newly- released HSCA/Secret Service interviews, Lawson stated that Lt Col. George Whitmeyer, who taught Army intelligence, rode in the pilot car, although he wasn't scheduled to be in the motorcade in the first place!)
ATSAIC [deputy of the ASAIC's] EMORY P. ROBERTS was in commandof the other 7 agents in the Secret Service follow-up car for all three majortrips in November, 1963: Chicago (11/2-cancelled), Florida (11/18) andTexas(1 1/21-I 1/22). While the other two ATSAlC's, Stewart G. Stout andArthur L. Godfrey, were elsewhere (Stout at the Trade Mart, Godfrey in Austinat the Commodore-Perry Hotel [author's interviews with Godfrey, both in 1996]), Roberts was in a position to exhibit a lot of power, made manifest first by his critical positioning of the other seven agents in the car, especially agents HENRY J. RYBKA (a member of the car on 11/21-11/22 before Dallas [Shift Reports of 11/21-11/22/63 via ARRB; Sturges film, Carswell AFB; 25H787]) and PRS agent GLENN A. BENNETT, who was making his very first trip ever [HSCA interview of Bennett, 1976; author interview of Kinney], riding in this most important of protective vehicles (Bennett was an administrator--if there were ostensibly, NO threats found by PRS of Dallas, WHY was Bennett placed here [he needed reminding by Lawson-17H631]? Could it be that he was (covertly)actively searching for KNOWN threats and this was covered-up afterwards [seeauthor's article in the April 1997 "JFK/ Deep Politics Quarterly"]? As forRybka, as discovered by this author, he was recalled by Roberts at Love Field[seeWFAA/ABC video and author's COPA 1995-1996 presentation videos],although Roberts would later cover this up by "mistakenly" placing RybkaIN the car via TWO written reports after-the-fact [ 18H739; Shift Reportof 11/22/63 via ARRB]; even Lawson made this same "mistake" in his FinalSurvey Report (LBJ Library copy].
In addition, once on Elm Street and after recognizing the first shot as a RIFLE blast (not a firecracker), Roberts recalled agent John D. Ready, the closest agent to JFK on the follow-up car, an action which he later erroneously blamed on the speed and distance between the two cars [18H734-735; 749-750] and ordered the other agents not to move [author's interviews with Sam Kinney, 1994]! From this moment on, Roberts totally usurped ASAIC Kellerman's proper authority in Dallas, and overtook the reigns of command, especially at Parkland Hospital [see "The Strange Actions (and Inaction) of Agent Emory Roberts", October 1996 "JFK/DPQ" by the author). However, Roberts wasn't the only agent to usurp Kellerman's authority on Elm Street...
Driver William R. Greer, as has been documented many times bythis author [see "47 Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street" Jan/March 1992 ThirdDecade for example], turned around in his seat twice to stare at JFKwithout speeding up and evacuating the scene, and disobeyed a directorder from his superior, Roy Kellerman, who was sitting less than twofeet away from him in the front seat of the limousine; this all occurredbefore the fatal head shot arrived. For his part, Kellerman proved to be an inexperienced "third-stringer", not making any attempt to come to theaid of the wounded President although, like Greer, he also saw JFK hit viaturning around in his seat. Kellerman claimed that JFK said both "Get meto a hospital" [Sibert & O'Neil interview of Kellerman 11/22/63; 2H73]and "My God, I've been hit" [2H73] AND made the equally-ludicrous claimthat JFK, with "his left hand in back of him appear [ed] to be reachingto a point on his right shoulder", an action not seen by any otherwitness or photographic artifact associated with 11/22/63!
SAIC OF VP (LBJ) DETAIL, H. STUART KNIGHT was also absent from theTexas trip, although he was replaced by his deputy in Dallas, ASAIC RUFUS W. YOUNGBLOOD, on 11/25/63, he was back in Washington on 11/21-11/22/63, inactive ("20 Years in the Secret Service", by Youngblood, pp. S6-97; author's interviews with Knight 1992-1994 and Youngblood 1992-1994]. Although "official" history tells us Youngblood received a medal for his fast actions in Dallas covering LBJ (who wasn't even a target) after the first shot sounded, Senator Ralph Yarborough, who sat in the very same car with Youngblood and LBJ, said that this never happened-not only did Youngblood never even leave the front seat, the agent and LBJ were listening to a walkie-talkie with the volume set too low for the Senator to hear what they were picking up ["TheDeath of a President", p. 166 - surprisingly, Dave Powers, who rode in thefollow-up car in place of Cecil Stoughton, agreed with Yarborough on this]
Fallout concerning Behn, Boring, Kellerman, Roberts, Lawson, Grant,Knight, and Youngblood? Behn was demoted -with Knight- on January 1965to a non-protective function known as "Special Investigations", which dealtin a tedious area of fraud. Who were these two replaced by? Rufus Youngblood,who became Kellerman's equal on 11/22/63 and Behn's equal soon after, whilebecoming Knight's superior immediately. While Lawson was tabbed as the "oneand only first ever-advance agent ever to lose a President" by an emotionalLawson himself ["Inside the Secret Service" video 1995; see also Manchester,p. 312], his long-forgotten partner,David Grant,went on to become an advanceman during the Nixon years and lived in near-total anonymity from the eventsof Dallas until this author "(re)discovered" him for the research community-Roberts became the Records Sec. to LBJ [interview with Kinney 1994], sharingimportant duties with another Roberts, Mrs. Juanita Roberts, Johnson's ChiefPrivate Secretary (Manchester, p. 403; Bishop, pp. 430, 528]. To date, thisauthor has been unable to confirm if this was Emory's wife, nor have I beenable to confirm if Roberts, who died unexpectedly in the late 1960's, was thesame agent who took his own life in Washington with his own weapon (the agentshowed signs he was beginning to buckle), according to agents Marty Venkerand Chuck Rochner ("Confessions of an Ex-Secret Service Agent" by GeorgeRush and Marty Venker, pp. 216-217]. Emory Roberts was the SECOND agentto die after Dallas. Who was the first? Fellow ATSAIC Stewart G. Stout-Stoutdied immediately after Dallas, cause unknown to date-Agents Kinney and Boringwould NOT tell me how he died during my interviews with them! In fact, Boringexpressed much doubt that Stout was EVEN IN DALLAS, which he unquestionablywas [2HKellerman; see also 18H665-702 and SS Shift reports via ARRB].Interestingly, on another November day when a President was in the midst ofan assassination attempt (Truman), not only was Floyd Boring temporarily incharge of the detail, but Stout was with him, as well, performing the verysame duties: armed and ready, safely away inside a building (Blair House andthe Trade Mart, respectively)!
What about Boring? He was PROMOTED to Inspector right afterDallas, a highly coveted position of power and prestige (author's interviewswith Jerry Behn (9/27/92) and Floyd Boring 1993-1994]! And, whileBehn, Kellerman, Rowley, and Lawson were subjected to public and mediascrutiny of a negative sort, coupled with testifying to either the FBI, theWC, the HSCA, or all of the above, significantly, those who I feel stronglywere "out of the loop" on purpose--Boring, Grant, and Roberts--testifiedto NO ONE associated with any of the official investigations! Although theHSCA did have Boring's and Grant's addresses, they were apparently notcontacted (as borne out by the footnotes or lack of them- in the HSCA'sReport and accompanying volumes). Roberts was interviewed by Manchester,and I strongly suspect that he was the source for the erroneous quote,attributed to Boring, that JFK had told the agents to get off the rear of thelimousine in Florida on 11/18/63 (Boring denied that this was true ANDthat he was ever contacted by Manchester, and he is joined by notablecolleagues Kinney, Godfrey, Lilly, Behn and many others as denouncingthe whole mythology of JFK "desiring" to do away with the agents on/nearthe rear of the limousine, the motorcycles, the bubbletop, etc, [see"Boring is Interesting" and the 1995-1996 COPA videos for more onthis issue] As noted in my previous work, it is this "JFK-as-Scapegoat"theme, adopted by Roberts, Boring, Grant, and perhaps even Lawson,that, along with the impossible lack of PRS subjects for Dallas, greatlycontributed, along with this breakdown of infrastructure, to whatoccurred on 1 1/22/63).
To summarize: while Dillon was "out of the loop" (and out of thecountry with Salinger et. al.), and while Chief Rowley and SAIC Behnwere inactive in D.C., Boring was pulling the strings for Dallas via D.C.,whereupon his deputies, Advance agent Grant and ATSAIC Emory Roberts,upstaged, commandeered, and, ultimately usurped the authority of "third-stringers" Roy Kellerman and Asst. Press Sec. Mac Kilduff (essentiallya non-player), not to mention Roberts' fellow ATSAIC's Godfrey and Stout AND Grant's "hapless" partner, advance agent Lawson. In addition, Young-blood took Knight's place both in Dallas and AFTER Dallas, and Greer joinedin his comrades Roberts and Boring in usurping Kellerman 's authority.
This, I believe, is the key to what ultimately transpired onNovember 22, 1963-mixing in JFK's fraudulent security "desires"with a healthy dose of infrastructure breakdown spelled a deadly potionfor the planing and implementation of security concerns-and agentbehavior-in Dallas.
Maybe there is a REASON a healthy majority of the agents wentfor unauthorized drinks on the eve of the murder after all...
--------------- end -------------------------
Reply
#89
Re: Palamara AND BEHN'S 'version' of "Changed Parade Route"From: "Vincent M. and Jessica K. Palamara" Date: 1998/05/06Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk--------------------------------------------------------------------------John McAdams wrote:> On 5 May 1998 07:55:41 -0500, "Vincent M. and Jessica K. Palamara"> wrote:>> >> >John McAdams wrote:> >> >> On 2 May 1998 17:54:29 -0500, "Vincent M. and Jessica K. Palamara"> >> wrote:> >>>> >> >>> >> >> Vince, the passage you are citing doesn't seem to mean what you're> >> >> interpreting it to mean.> >> >> >> >You are entitled to your opinion ("seem" is the operative word you used).> >>> >> OK, here is the page you cited. Let's let everybody form their own> >> "opinion" as to whether it says anything about "the motorcade route> >> was to have proceeded straight down Main Street."> >> >FINE: SEE BELOW FOR MY COMMENTS (WITHIN THE TEXT):> >> >>> >>> >> ----------------------------------------------------> >>> >> VII. THE RESIDUAL ROLE OF THE SECRET SERVICE IN MOTORCADE> >> PLANNING> >>> >> (A) THE MAIN STREET-HOUSTON-ELM TURN> >>> >> (60) As the Dallas SAIC, Forrest Sorrels told the Warren> >> Commission, he selected the Main-Houston-Elm turn through Dealey Plaza> >> because it was the "most direct" route to the Trade Mart. (189) Sor-> >>> >> 522> >>> >> rels' questioning by Warren Commission staff counsel Samuel M.> >> Stern, however, prevented a total picture of motorcade route logistics> >> from emerging.> >> >[IMPORTANT POINT TO KEEP IN MIND]> >> >> Stern asked Sorrels why the expressway was proached> >> from the Elm Street ramp instead of from Main Street just beyond the> >> triple overpass at the westen boundary of Dealey Plaza. Sorrels> >> explained that the size and cumbersomeness of the motorcade, along> >> with the presence of a raised divider separating the Elm Street lane> >> from the Elm Street lane at the foot of the ramp up to the expressway,> >> deterred him from trying to route the motorcade under and through the> >> overpass on Main Street. Such a route would have assigned the drivers> >> in the motorcade the almost impossible task of making a reverse S-turn> >> in order to cross over the raised divider to get from the Main Street> >> lane into the Elm Street lane. (190)> >> >[THIS ISN'T "IT" YET, BUT READ THIS NEXT LINE CAREFULLY:]> >> >> However, this> >> question-and-answer process failed to make clear that the Trade Mart> >> was accessible from beyond the triple overpass in such a way that it> >> was not necessary to enter the Elm Street ramp to the expressway. The> >> motorcade could have progressed westward through Dealey Plaza on Main> >> Street, passed under the overpass, and then proceeded on Industrial> >> Boulevard to the Trade Mart. (191)> >> >[SOUNDS GOOD, HUH? UH OH: HERE COMES THE SOLE DPD SOURCE TO "SHOOT" THIS IDEA> >DOWN (DARN!):]> >> >> (61) George L. Lumpkin, assistant police chief in Dallas in> >> 1963, was consulted by the Secret Service about the motorcade aspect> >> of security planning. (192) Lumpkin explained that the alternate> >> route> >> >[ONLY ONE OF AT LEAST TWO...AND, WHO SAID IT WASN'T ALSO *THE* ROUTE, AT LEAST> >ORIGINALLY?]> >>> I don't see Lumpkin saying anything about any change in the motorcade> route.OF COURSE NOT---THAT WAS NEVER MY POINT, NOR ANYONE ELSES! THE POINT IS,JUST AS YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT THE SAIC OF THE WHD'S HSCA TESTIMONY/ WORDABOUT THERE BEING A CHANGE IN THE MOTORCADE ROUTE (GERALD A. "JERRY"BEHN), THEN I CHOOSE NOT TO BELIEVE THIS SOLE DPD OFFICER'S "WORD" ABOUTINDUSTRIAL BLVD.>>> >> , continuing straight on Main through and beyond Dealey Plaza and> >> thereby reaching the Trade Mart on Industrial Boulevard, was rejected> >> because the neighborhood surrounding Industrial Boulevard was "filled> >> with winos and broken pavement." (193)> >> >[JFK RODE IN MORTORCADES IN OTHER LESS-THAN-IDEAL AREAS, SUCH AS IN A PART OF> >TAMPA, A PART OF CHICAGO, AND A PART OF NY]> >>> I don't see how that changes the fact that the City Fathers in Dallas> would not want to show him the seedy part of town. Had there been no> Stemmons Freeway, they might well have been forced to go down> Industrial.THERE WAS A PRECEDENT FOR THIS. AND, IN ADDITION, THERE WERE ANTI-JFKSIGNS ALONG THE ROUTE, THE PINT BEING THAT IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO "SHIELD"PRESIDENT KENNEDY FROM ALL SORTS OF IMPROPER AND "SEEDY" THINGS. INADDITION, I DOUBT IF JFK WOULD HAVE REALLY NOTICED OR CARED (ESP. AT THEFAST CLIP THEY WERE GOING BEFORE ELM STREET) ABOUT INDUSTRIAL BLVD.'SSO-CALLED "SEEDY" CONDITIONS: HE DIDN'T SEEM TO MIND THEM IN OTHERCITIES...>>> >> Additionally, Lumpkin stated> >> that Kennedy wanted exposure and that there would have been no crowds> >> cn Industrial Boulevard. (194)> >> >WHAT?!?! ANYWHERE THE PRESIDENT WAS GOING TO BE, SO WOULD THE PEOPLE-'NUFF SAID.> >>> Huh? The big Dallas crowds were on Main Street, where a lot of people> worked during the day. Even in Dealey Plaza the crowds were thinning> out.MAINLY BECAUSE OUR FRIENDS IN THE DPD DIDN'T WANT SPECTATORS IN THE CENTEROF DEALEY PLAZA...> There would have been even fewer people on Industrial. Makes> more sense to get directly to the Trade Mart.AGAIN, WHEREVER AND WHATEVER ROUTE THE PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE TAKEN, THEPEOPLE WOULD HAVE WENT AND SAW HIM ACCORDINGLY...EVEN THE "SEEDY" PEOPLE!>>> >>> >> >HERE IT IS, AT LEAST AS FAR AS *THIS* SOURCE IS CONCERNED:> >> >> (62) Advance Agent Lawson informed committee investigators> >> that he had nothing to do with the selection of the Main-Houston-Elm> >> turn before November 14, since only Main Street, not Dealey Plaza, had> >> been selected for the motorcade at that time.> >> >"SINCE ONLY MAIN STREET, NOT DEALEY PLAZA, HAD BEEN SLECTED FOR THE MOTORCADE AT> >THAT TIME"!IN ADDITION, THE FOLLOWING NEWSPAPERS SUPPORT LAWSON'S CLAIM:>> Vince, this is not the same as saying that a route down Main to> Industrial had been chosen. He seems"SEEMS"...> to be saying that it had been> decided that the motorcade would go down Main through the center of> town. That's perfectly consistent with turning on Houston, or not> turning on Houston.>> >1. CE 1361 - undated Dallas paper: Main street only;>> I can't read this from my CD. The resolution is too poor. What> exactly does it say?22 H 613---IT MENTIONS MAIN STREET ONLY: NO MENTION OF HOUSTON OR ELM.>>> >2. CE 1364 - Dallas Morning News 11/20/63: Main street only;>> You're correct it doesn't mention Houston and Elm, BUT IT DOESN'T> MENTION INDUSTRIAL EITHER. It just doesn't tell people about the> route after the motorcade leaves the downtown. Yet you seem to be> citing it as though it mentions Industrial.NO, AS WITH THE ABOVE TWO EXAMPLES ("SINCE ONLY MAIN STREET..."; CE 1361)>>> And Vince, you missed a couple.NO I DID NOT: THEY ARE DULY NOTED IN MY BOOK. I AM WELL AWARE OF THESEACCOUNTS. IN ANOTHER POST, I INCLUDED EVERY ACCOUNT TO DEMONSTRATE THENEWSPAPER CONFUSION AND (DELIBERATE?)OBFUSCATION OF THE ROUTE. PLEASE SEEDAVE PERRY'S ARTICLE IN THE LATEST "JFK/DPQ" JOURNAL---WHILE WE BOTH AGREETHERE WAS NO *LAST MINUTE* CHANGE IN THE MOTORCADE ROUTE, HE DULY NOTESTHE "ERRORS" IN THE NEWSPAPER ACCOUNTS; IN FACT, IN AN E-MAIL MESSAGE, HESAID HE DOES NOT DIPUTE MY TAKE ON THE ROUTE CHANGE, JUST THAT THE JAMESFILES/ GARRISON STORY OF A *LAST MINUTE* CHANGE IS FALSE(WHICH, AS I SAID,I AM IN AGREEMENT WITH HIM)> Check out the following, both from> Nov. 19, 1963.>> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dmntue.gif>> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dthtue.gif>> They are consistent and accurate.YEAH, WITH THE ROUTE THEY DROVE ON 11/22/63; THAT'S NOT THE POINT.>>> >3. CE 1375 - Dallas Morning News 11/8/63: Governor Connolly - luncheon cite> >"uncertain" because the Secret Service "had not cleared the matter". Connolly> >later stated that he was never informed about the exact route of 11/22/63!(NY> >Herald Tribune 11/29/63);>> What's the point here, Vince? I thought you were supposed to be> proving that there was an earlier motorcade route, and it was somehow> *changed* to the route that the motorcade in fact took.>> I don't see what the above has to do with this.THIS WAS TO DEMONSTRATE THE SS'S INVOLVEMENT IN THESE MATTERS, AS WELL ASCONNALLY'S BEING OUT-OF-THE-LOOP REGARDING THE ROUTE.>>> >4. Dallas Times Herald 11/22/63 - Industrial Boulevard to the Trade Mart> >(Alternate route of Main to Industrial to Trade Mart)!>> Vince, you need to post a source for this. Indeed, it would be> helpful if you would post the actual passage, so that all of us can> decide how to interpret it.>> I know the source is the TIMES HERALD, but this apparently is a "late> edition" that didn't get microfilmed.FINAL EDITION, P. 19>>> >5. CE 1365 - Dallas Morning News 11/22/63: Main Street only: Map without Elm> >Street turn (Warren Commission deleted).>> And on 11/21/63, the TIMES HERALD printed a map *with* the turn.>> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dthmap.gif>> VINCE, WHAT IS THE POINT OF ALL THIS? All this happened *after* you> admit the route was set to include a turn on Houston and Elm.AGAIN, THIS JUST ADDS TO THE NEWSPAPER CONFUSION/ OBFUSCATION AND THEELEMENT OF PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY THAT THESE CONFLICTING ACCOUNTSOFFERED---JUST PICK THE ACCOUNT THAT FITS YOUR IDEAS! THERE IS NO SUCHOBFUSCATION IN ANY PREVIOUS TRIP I HAVE SEEN: IF THE ROUTE IS PUBLICIZEDAT ALL, IT IS STRAIGHT-FORWARD WITH NO CONFLICTING ACCOUNTS/DETAILS...THIS IS THE POINT (AMONG OTHERS...)>>> >> >> >> He did not specify the> >> exact date on which the turn was selected nor did he identify the> >> person selecting the turn.(195)> >> >HOW CONVENIENT! REMEMBER, DAVID GRANT JOINED LAWSON ON 11/18/63 FROM THE FLORIDA> >TRIPO BUT HE WAS WORKING WITH LAWSON---AND SORRELS ---SINCE 11/13/63 [17 H 601]> >>> And how does this prove an earlier motorcade route?THIS ADDS ANOTHER ELEMENT INTO THE EQUATION---WHY DIDN'T THE WC OR THE HSCA INTERVIEWHIM? WHY, INDEED...>>> >> Sorrels stated that he and Lawson did> >> drive the entire route together, but did not specify when this> >> occurred. (196)> >> >HOW CONVENIENT!> >>> And how does this prove an earlier motorcade route?THIS JUST ADDS TO THE IMPRECISE. "I-DO-NOT-RECALL" MENTALITY OF ALOT OF THETESTIMONY---WAS IT DELIBERATE?>>> >> (63) Sorrels' Warren Commission exhibit No. 4 suggested that> >> both men drove the entire route on November 18. (197) It is not> >> certain that both men knew about the turn earlier than this date.> >> >CAN YOU SAY "CONFUSING"? [INTENTIONAL?]> >>> And how does this prove an earlier motorcade route?SEE PREVIOUS COMMENT>>> >>> >>> >> (B) THE PROTECTIVE RESEARCH SECTION> >>> >> (64) In making a determination as to whether the advance> >> agents for the Texas trip, as well as local field agents, were duly> >> informed of any potential problems that might occur, a thorough review> >> of the function of the Secret Service Protective Research Section was> >> conducted. The Protective Research Service (PRS) was meant to function> >> both as repository of information about threats to the security of> >> Secret Service protectees and as a provider of such information to> >> agents in all types of assignments. It acquired and made available> >> information received from its own agents and from other sources. (198)> >>> >> (65) In 1963, information acquired from any source external> >> to the> >>> >> 523> >>> >> -----------------------------------------------------> >>> >> Perhaps you would be kind enough to underline the text that you> >> interpret as meaning that "the motorcade route was to have proceeded> >> straight down Main Street."> >>> >> >See also "High Treason", pp. 130-132; "Deep Politics and the Death of> >> >JFK", pp. 272-278; "The Warren Omission" by Walt Brown, p. 282.> >>> >> Vince, these are secondary sources, and dubious ones at that. Surely> >> you know about the *primary* sources that supposedly support your> >> contention that the parade route was "changed."> >> >THE SPECIAL AGENT OF THE WHITE HOUSE DETAIL, GERALD A. BEHN, TOLD ME ON 9/27/92> >THAT THE ROUTE WAS CHANGED IN DALLAS---THE HSCA EVEN ASKED HIM WHY (NOT IF) THE> >ROUTE WAS INDEED CHANGED IN *EXECUTIVE SESSION* (THESE RECORDS ARE STILL NOT> >RELEASED)!BEHN, TO ME ON 9/27/92, RE: THE HSCA: "ISN'T THAT THE ONE THAT STOKES> >WAS ON? WELL, THEY WANTED TO KNOW WHY THE ROUTE WAS CHANGED---I KNOW IT WAS> >CHANGED, BUT WHY---I'VE FORGOTTEN COMPLETELY; I DON'T KNOW"> >>> OK, you have one witness who says the route was changed. And he said> this (maybeHE DID!> --you only have a 1992 version of his testimony) in the> late 70s. He's "forgotten completely" and he "doesn't know."HE'S "FORGOTTEN COMPLETELY" AND "DOESN'T KNOW" THE REASONS FOR THE CHANGE,NOT THE CHANGE ITSELF: THE HSCA ASKED HIM WHY---NOT IF---IT WAS CHANGED,AND HE SAID IT WAS!!!> And you> have chosen to believe him in preference to all the witnesses who told> the WC and the HSCA about "the motorcade route" and made it clear that> no route was set before the one that turned on Houston and Elm.>> Why?AMONG OTHER REASONS (THE CONFLICTING NEWSPAPER ACCOUNTS AMONG THEM), THESAIC OF THE WHD---WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THE PLANNING STAGES---CARRIED MOREAUTHORITY THAN ALL OF THOSE UNDER HIM WHO TESTIFIED; DNC ADVANCE MAN JERRYBRUNO EVEN SAID THIS TO THE HSCA!>>> >>> >>> >> >MOST> >> >IMPORTANTLY, SEE 4 H 328 (SS AGENT WIN LAWSON'S TESTIMONY):"MR. MCCLOY: I> >> >DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WANT TO--I HAVE GOT TO LEAVE.ARE YOU GOING TO ASK> >> >WHY THEY DIDN'T GO DOWN MAIN STREET? [!!!]> >> >> >> >MR. STERN: YES.> >> >> >> >MR MCCLOY: TAKE CARE OF THAT. THE SUGGESTION WAS MADE YESTERDAY---YOU ARE> >> >GOING TO COVER THAT? (DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD)" [!!!]> >> >> >> >We're still waiting!> >> >> >>> >> I'm happy to inform you that your waiting is over!> >>> >> >YES, BUT WHAT WAS SAID "OFF THE RECORD" AT *THAT* TIME? WE WILL NEVER KNOW....> >>> The question was answered *on* the record.>> And how does any of this show the existence of an earlier motorcade> route that was "changed?">THIS JUST ADDS ANOTHER ELEMENT INTO THE BIG PICTURE: WHY GO OFF THE RECORDAT ALL REGARDING THIS MATTER? WHO'S TO SAY THAT THE LATER TESTIMONY WASWHAT WAS COVERED OFF THE RECORD?> >> The following is from 4H332-333:> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------> >>> >> Mr. LAWSON. I imagine it was a little faster at this time,> >> sir, because the downtown section where it was quite heavily populated> >> with people watching the motorcade, we had been out of that for a> >> while before we got to the Houston Street turn. So we were probably> >> back up to perhaps 12 or 15 miles an hour by then.> >> Mr. McCLOY. But you would have had to slow up a bit coming> >> around the curve.> >> Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir.> >> Mr. STERN. Mr. Lawson, can you tell us why you didn't plan the> >> motorcade so that it went straight down Main Street to turn right on> >> to the entrance to the freeway instead of taking this dogleg on> >> Houston and Elm?> >> Mr. DULLES. Jerry, will you take over.> >>> >> 332> >>> >> Page 333> >>> >> Representative FORD. Will you proceed please, Mr. Stern?> >> Mr. STERN. Yes.> >> Mr. LAWSON. You mean why we didn't come straight down Main> >> Street to the Stemmons Freeway?> >> Mr. STERN. Right.> >> Mr. LAWSON. Because it is my understanding there isn't any> >> entrance to the freeway on Main Street.> >> >?!?!?!?!?!---SEE HSCA QUOTE ABOVE, RIGHT AFTER I WRITE "READ THIS NEXT LINE> >CAREFULLY"...> >> >> Mr. STERN. But you don't yourself recall now or do you?> >> Mr. LAWSON. Yes, I was told that there wasn't any entrance> >> that way, and I myself once when I went to the Trade Mart, not knowing> >> that there was any entrance to it, went down Main Street, You must> >> enter the freeway going in the direction that We wanted to go from the> >> Elm Street extension.> >> Mr. STERN. When you went down Main Street you found that you> >> could not get on to the entrance to the Stemmons Freeway?> >> Mr. LAWSON. Going the direction on the freeway towards the> >> Trade Mart, that is correct.> >> Mr. STERN. Which is the direction the motorcade was to go?> >> Mr. LAWSON. Was to go; yes, sir.> >>> >> -----------------------------------------------------> >>> >> So, surprisingly, Stern got around to asking the exact question McCloy> >> wanted answered, and it was just a few pages further on in the> >> testimony. I found it with my high-tech CD ROM search.> >> >CLEVER, BUT I WAS REFERRING TO THIS PARTICULAR "OFF THE RECORD" CLIP. STILL, I> >WAS AWARE OF THIS ALREADY, AS I HAVE ALL OF THE SS TESTIMONY/ RELATED ITEMS FROM> >THE WC REPORT AND THE 26 VOLUMES IN A MASSIVELY-BOUND PHOTOCOPIED VOLUME OF MY> >OWN MAKING [MY COLLEGE LIBRARY HAS THE ORIGINAL, MINT CONDITION WC VOLUMES]! :-)> >>> Are you just *positing* that in the off the record testimony that he> explained about the "earlier route" that when down Industrial?>> If not, how do you think the discussion off the record is any sort of> evidence of a "changed motorcade route?"SEE MY PREVIOUS COMMENT ABOVE>>> >>> >>> >> But Vince, this really isn't relevant. The WC wanting to know why the> >> motorcade didn't go right down main is *not* any evidence that there> >> was ever another route. It's just wanting to know why this exact one> >> was chosen.> >> >I BELIEVE IT IS RELEVANT, BUT I CONCEDE IT IS NOT EVIDENCE, IN AND OF ITSELF, TO> >A CHANGE IN THE ROUTE.> >>> Yes. Agreed.>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >> And Vince, where did you get this "violation of Secret Service> >> >> regulations" thing? My experience has been that they are extremely> >> >> tight-lipped about their procedures.> >> >> >> >This is based off their own SECRET SERVICE MANUAL/ regulations, as well as> >> >my interviews with several agents. There seems to be little or no dispute> >> >(until now) that there were violations of strict SS regulations, as> >> >several people before me have pointed out...and, more importantly, their> >> >own MANUAL bears this out.> >> >> >>> >> Good Vince. Please tell us how we can get a look at that manual. A> >> National Archives Document number would be good, or perhaps Jim> >> Lesar's operation has a copy that researchers can look at.> >> >WELL, BESIDES THE EXCERPTS FROM THE SS MANUAL QUOTED IN THE WC VOLUMES ABOUT> >THE VIOLATIONS OF DRINKING WHILE IN TRAVEL STATUS [18 H 665] AND THE VARIOUS> >QUOTES FROM THE MANUAL AS DEPICTED IN PHIL MELANSON'S 1984 BOOK "THE POLITICS OF> >PROTECTION", THERE IS NOT A *FULL* SS MANUAL AVAILABLE "OVER THE COUNTER", SO TO> >SPEAK (NO RIFF NUMBERS OR AARC AVAILABILITY, UNFORTUNATELY). THESE VIOLATIONS> >CONCERNING THE MOTORCADE ROUTE (THE TURN AND THE SPEED), WHICH WAS BROUGHT UP BY> >AUTHORS SUCH AS JIM MARRS, ROBERT GRODEN, AND HARRY LIVINGSTONE (AMONG OTHERS)>> Vince, you are not citing the most reliable authors in the world.THAT'S YOUR OPINION; AND, ON THIS MATTER, THEY HAVE BEEN CORROBORATED.>>> Let me ask you something. If *you* don't have access to the primary> sources on this, if *you* can't put you hands on a document and say> "this is the regulation right here" just how do you think Groden or> Marrs or Livingstone can?NOONE HAS ALL THE ANSWERS OR, MORE IMPORTANTLY, ALL THE DOCUMENTS, ESP.THE SS MANUAL! THE AGENTS I SPOKE TO COULD HAVE SHOT THIS WHOLE IDEA OF"VIOLATIONS" DOWN THE DRAIN---THEY DIDN'T: THE CONFIRMED THEM!!!>>> Why are you citing secondary sources, and particularly authors who> know less about this than you do?>> >YEARS BEFORE ME, WERE *CONFIRMED* AS BEING SS VIOLATIONS THROUGH MY INTERVIEWS> >WITH DNC ADVANCE MAN MARTY UNDERWOOD, JOHN NORRIS, ABE BOLDEN, AND SAM KINNEY,> >ALL OF WHOM, TO GREATER OR LESSER EXTENTS, ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE ROUTE WAS A>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^> >SECURITY HAZARD THAT, AS KINNEY TOLD ME (THE LEAST HARSH OF THE FOUR), THEY>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^> >"NEVER SHOULD" HAVE TAKEN JFK DOWN!> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^>> Vince, you were supposed to be providing evidence that there was a> "violation of regulations." What they seem to have told you is that> -- especially with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight -- the turn was> dangerous. That's different.NOT HINDSIGHT---JUST CONFIRMATION OF SS VIOLATIONS. KEEP IN MIND, AS INTHE DRINKING INCIDENT (NOT AN ISOLATED INCIDENT), RULES ARE MEANT TO BEBROKEN, ESP. WHEN THEY SUIT THE "BREAKERS">>> >> Vince, you are not citing any sources about any *change.*> >>> >> You are citing sources that say the route was established that day.> >> That's only a "change" if there was an earlier different route.> >>> >> In citing these sources as showing a "change," you are *assuming* that> >> there was an earlier route. But that's what you are supposed to be> >> proving.> >> >SEE ABOVE, ESP. SAIC BEHN---IS HE LYING? REMEMBER, KNOWING YOUR FONDNESS FOR> >HSCA MATERIAL, IT WAS THE HSCA THAT ASKED BEHN IN *EXECUTIVE SESSION* WHY WAS> >THE ROUTE CHANGED IN DALLAS [HOW DID THEY KNOW THIS, LET ALONE TO ASK HIM?]!.> >>> Vince, you are citing his vague 1992 recollection of what the HSCA> asked him.NOT VAGUE AT ALL> If they really had evidence of any change, why isn't it in> their report, or at least in HSCA documents?>SO WHAT?!?! WHAT ABOUT ALL THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE DOCUMENTS THAT TOTALLYCONTRADICT THE HSCA'S REPORT/ CONCLUSIONS AND WERE NOT MADE A PART OF THE"RECORD"?> This sounds a lot to me like your citing Groden, et al. above.WRONG> You> are positing that they knew something that you don't. But you have no> evidence that, *if* they really did ask Behn this, they had any> evidence that it happened. It's possible that some staffer bought> into the silly Joesten/Garrison version of the "changed parade route."POSSIBLY---BUT BEHN TOLD ME THE HSCA ASKED HIM WHY, AND HE SAID IT WAS...>>> Behn -- especially a 1992 interview where he tells you he's "forgotten> completely" and he "doesn't know" -- is a thin reed to use to> challenge the mass of WC and HSCA testimony on this.>> .JohnSEE ABOVE---NOT A "THIN REED" AT ALL.RESPECTFULLY,VINCE PALAMARA :-) B


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Bernice Moore Wrote:MARK I JUST LOST MY REPLY TO YOU.....:flybyeBig GrinUH........THANKS YOU GOT IT......B ............ATTACHED OLD COMP PHOTO OF THE SS AROUND K AT THE TIME.....

Ah nice--thanks for that Bernice. I've never seen a photo of Emory Roberts sans sunglasses. In fact, photos of Roberts are very rare.

Just who was Emory Roberts and what were the circumstances of his death? Why aren't we allowed to find out? I guess we'll never find out now.
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