The Great Game, the Vril-ya and Theosophy

[David Guyatt]

Thanks Helen (again) and Jan also. Fascinating stuff.

Lytton claimed that there is a psychic energy of immense power, latent in most humans, but being utilised by adepts living in Tibet.

I’m feel sure the bit about "psychic energy of immense power" is probably true. It's been a recurring theme in a lot of the research I have conducted over the years. But like Arthur’s sword it can either be used to hack or to heal - to purloin a phrase from John Boorman’s film Excalibur. I am also quite sure that the purpose of the SS Ahnenerbe search for this secret was to gain access to this corruptive power. In other words to hack.

A recent archaeological dig in the Ukraine discovered SS skeletons showing clear evidence of trepination in a sacred Scythian graveyard. The speculative interpretation is that the Ahnenerbe were drilling for evidence of the Third Eye inside the skulls of the "pure Aryans" of the SS.

The mind boggles. Or should that be ogles?

Trepanation of the skull for the third eye is certainly evidence of extroverted thinking, and is evidence in and of itself that those in the SS responsible for this episode probably missed the deeper point. Unless, of course, there was an underlying ritual purpose to the procedure.

Speaking of curious SS outfits, the SS Charlemagne brigade was composed almost entirely of Frenchmen and has a particular resonance to the story of the Priory of Sion as it pertains to SS Otto Rahn. The following site contains much interesting material on things PoS:

http://www.perillos.com/rahn.html

On Rahn I was once told by someone who claimed definite knowledge (i.e., he met him after the war) that Rahn really did not die in an alpine accident and lived a sheltered life in the Vatican post WWII.

Another page from the same website linked above goes into more detail about the founding of the SS Charlemagne brigade inside Lupe (Wolf) Castle and its purpose:

The secret of the Charlemagne Division

But let us return to the castle of Lupé… which had sheltered two famous characters: François Rabelais and… Michel de Nostredame. We can only wonder why they came here…
But it lasted until the Second World War before the Lupé castle would have its most bizarre episode. It is in this castle, under the impulse of Mgr Mayol de Lupé, that the famous S.S. "Charlemagne" Division was created. 
The purpose of this division was to unite, after the war, an aristocracy of which the unavowed and "secret" goal was neither more nor less than the attempt to reconstitute the Holy Germanic Empire. Mgr Mayol de Lupé was Grand Chaplain of this Waffen-SS division, whose number was 33…
One is in right to ask why this "exceptional creation" occurred in the Lupé castle, and nowhere else, as the place had been forgotten, was not famous or did not conform with any of the known military practices or imperatives of the Nazis. 
The latter behaved very discreetly in the village… almost clandestinely. And then there were the German topographers who accompanied the German officers, to carry out strange measurements, in certain places adjoining the castle. Historians and experts in archaeology attest that Nazis were actually stationed within the walls of the castle. To devote themselves to what type of research?

http://www.perillos.com/lupe.html

[Helen Reyes]

I guess Gurdjieff and his Meetings with Remarkable Men need to be included somehow. He did go to the Oxus/Amu Darya River.

Yes,how about some more on Gurdjieff.If I remember during the Russian civil war he left with his adepts,and traveled to somewhere in Persia.Was that Turkish land or Iran?I believe he was studying the sufi mysteries.:joyman:

Yes, he went to the Oxus River which was the Afghan border I think. There are Sufi orders in extreme eastern Afghanistan, probably eslewhere too. Gurdjieff sort of left country names out as I recall, but gave enough placenames to follow along somewhat. And didn't he organize an expedition to the Gobi which ended in someone being fatally bitten by a wild camel? I need to track his routes down somehow. I wonder if he went through Kafiristan. I remember something about him painting swallows to sell as canaries in Boukhara when he ran out of money!

[Jan Klimkowski]

I'm fairly certain that the Red Army did find a group of Tibetan adepts in Berlin in 1945, having researched this story over the years.
... A recent archaeological dig in the Ukraine discovered SS skeletons showing clear evidence of trepination in a sacred Scythian graveyard. The speculative interpretation is that the Ahnenerbe were drilling for evidence of the Third Eye inside the skulls of the "pure Aryans" of the SS.

:bandit:

Any idea how many Tibetans were found dead in Berlin in 1945? Also, why were the archaeologists sure it was trepination and not systemtic blows or bullets to the head? Was the "Scythian graveyard" a collection of kurgans?

The Ahnenerbe on the Steppes material comes from an article in Pravda circa 2002. Obviously not entirely reliable, but it's a fairly bizarre and esoteric subject to bother lying about 2002.

Ukrainian workers found strange graves at a construction in one of the towns in the south of Ukraine. The graves were found at a depth of two or two and a half meters.

At first, they thought that it was an ancient Scythian graveyard. Then, someone saw a medallion of a German soldier in one of the coffins. The finding was a grave of German soldiers. However, when archeologists arrived to the site, they were shocked with what they saw. Some of the human skeletons in the grave had their spines sawn lengthwise. Some of them did not have heads, while others had skull trepanation. Other skeletons had little holes drilled in their cannon-bones. After that, there were tens of other graves found. They were all covered with lime and calcium chloride. Some of the human remains preserved the vestiges of chemical impact. Someone was trying to find a “third eye” in the heads of several officers: their skulls were opened in several places.

Experts determined that the found graves were the vestiges of Ahnenerbe’s activities. This was the most secret organization of the Third Reich. The people of the true Aryan race were its victims. Ahnenerbe’s doctors believed that medical tests and experiments were supposed to eventually result in a new breed of a human being.

There was other material suggesting that the site was found near a Scythian Royal Kurgan, and that SS memorabilia was discovered in the graves.

It's unclear whether any laboratory testing for age/epoch was undertaken, but the use of lime and calcium chloride to cover the bodies suggests relatively modern burial.

I'm attaching a photo that Pravda said was taken by an archaeologist at the site. It's not evidence of trepanation.

However, it's most certainly not evidence for bullet wounds either... mokin:

[Helen Reyes]

Jan: ghastly. It could also be a post-war torture scene, with an SS ritual as good enough cover. Or it could be what the Ukrainians reported, but it does sound a wee bit sensational. I'd like to see more physical evidence, medallions and so on. If it's a single SS belt buckle, that could've fallen off while Jews were being butchered in sadistic ways by Nazis.

David: the first link in your post mentions Ebionites and the second mentions archbishop of Lyons, St. Ennemond. This is significant for catharism. The Ebionites were an early gnostic sect. GRS Mead in Fragments of a Faith Forgotten devotes a chapter to them:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/gno/fff/fff13.htm

THE EBIONITES.
Epiphanius would have it that the Christians were first called Iessæi, and says they are mentioned under this name in the writings of Philo. The followers of the earliest converts of Jesus are also said to have been called Nazoræi. Even towards the end of the fourth century the Nazoræans were still found scattered throughout Cœle-Syria, Decapolis, Pella (whither they fled at the destruction of Jerusalem), the region beyond Jordan, and far away to Mesopotamia. Their collection of the logoi was called The Gospel according to the Hebrews, and differed greatly from the synoptic accounts of the Canon. Even to this day a remnant of the Nazoræans is said by some to survive in the Mandaïtes, a strange sect dwelling in the marshes of Southern Babylonia, but their curious scripture, The Book of Adam, as preserved in the Codex Nasaræus, bears no resemblance whatever to the known fragments of The Gospel according to the Hebrews, though some of their rites are very similar to the rites of some communities of the "Righteous" referred to in that strange Jewish pseudepigraph The Sibylline Oracles.

Who the original Iessæans or Nazoræans were, is wrapped in the greatest obscurity; under another of their designations, however, the Ebionites or "Poor Men," we can obtain some further information. These early outer followers of Jesus were finally ostracized from the orthodox fold, and so completely

[p. 127]

were their origin and history obscured by the subsequent industry of heresy-hunters, that we finally find them fathered on a certain Ebion, who is as non-existent as several other heretics, such as Epiphanes, Kolarbasus and Elkesai, who were invented by the zeal and ignorance of fourth-century hæresiologists and "historians." ... The Ebionites were originally so called because they were "poor"; the later orthodox subsequently added "in
intelligence" or "in their ideas about Christ." ...

The great anti-gnostic heresiologist also happened to be archbishop of Lyons, Iranaeus, but around 400 years earlier than St. Ennemond. You probably know about the Egyptian motifs in certain early Christian churches in the south of France. So you've got a group of Franciscans calling themselves Ebionites supposedly guarding the arma Christi in France and the theory that the Third Reich had something with which to blackmail the Vatican into compliance.

And then to tie it back into Jan's Ukrainian report, there's that Templar legend about John the Baptist's skull in Jerusalem, in some underground chamber under the Temple Mount, with the hint that the human skull is the Grail, with the implication that human sacrifice is involved in the Grail quest. There's some kind of inner coherence in that, but I'm not sure where the truth hides.

Well, just to mix it up some more, I just ran across this: Taeufer, Johannes - Vril - Die Kosmische Urkraft (1930, 25 S.).pdf

[David Guyatt]

The motif of John the Baptists skull is extensive, as is the Templar "talking head" skull Baphomet. Then we have another female skull that features in Southern France and, of course, not to forget the crystal skulls of current fame. And on it goes.

My own conclusion is that the skull recurs so often because it is a wonderfully gripping occult symbol. I am also convinced that its actual significance is that it is the Grail "cup", the alchemists alembic etc. In other words it an initiatic cipher of the " Great Work" -- the human ability to expand consciousness as a consequence of its journey to Hades/the centre of the Earth and so on. Since this journey and achievement can only be achieved inside the skull, it is a perfect symbolic fit.

I have been interested in the Black Madonnas of Southern France for some time and the Egyptian connection you speak of Helen, may well connect to the centre of Gypsy faith at the fortified church of Notre Dame de la Mer in the Carmargue. Although not recognized by the Vatican, Sara is depicted as having black skin and is said to have been Egyptian. Of course one can also trace Gypsies back to their Egyptian origins so the whole thing comes full circle. It seems an obvious conclusion that Sara is actually Isis in another guise (see [URL="http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?
section=104&article=36930"]HERE[/URL]).

It is indeed most interest that Himmler's personal wizard, Nazi Satanist Karl Maria Wiligut claimed to be the King of the Gypsies and used to attend the annual gatherings linked above and was, apparently, well known at them.

I wonder if the creed of the Ebionites or "Poor Men" were adopted in some sense by the Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon, more commonly known as the Knights Templars? Both were very active in the very same part of France as were the Cathars and the composed fable we know as the Priory of Sion.

Of course there would actually need to be the physical historical personage of Jesus Christ for the Nazoræans to follow, and I am unconvinced that what we nowadays regard as JC actually did live and breath (however, that there was a "wise man" named Joshua Ben Joseph I don't really doubt but also don't know very much about to argue the toss either). But that is not to say that the compound story of JC is not a remarkable occult/alchemical cipher in its own right that deserves much attention and even more understanding.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Jan: ghastly. It could also be a post-war torture scene, with an SS ritual as good enough cover. Or it could be what the Ukrainians reported, but it does sound a wee bit sensational. I'd like to see more physical evidence, medallions and so on. If it's a single SS belt buckle, that could've fallen off while Jews were being butchered in sadistic ways by Nazis.

Helen - I have a great uncle who was most probably executed by the NKVD at Katyn, along with around 22,000 other Poles. Of course, for decades, the USSR blamed this on the Nazis, and British governments from Churchill's to Thatcher's, played along with this Soviet propaganda.

So, I examine all Soviet reports about the provenance of mass graves in the Steppes with deep scepticism.

However, this was Ukrainian reporting through Pravda in 2002, so the control mechanisms of the NKVD and KGB and the Soviet Communist Party are less of a factor than previously.

If the bodies are from the WW2 era, they are almost certain to be slavs or Germans, not Jews. They could be partisans butchered - by either side, with evidence left to blame the other.

If this was genuinely an SS medical experiment, and the Russians have long claimed that the Nazis saved much of their most brutal and unethical behaviour for the eastern front, then it is entirely plausible that it would be conducted on "aryan-looking" slavs, such as blond-haired Poles or Ukrainians. Or, alternately, on fallen SS soldiers.

There's not enough evidence to come to a definitive conclusion. However, speculatively, an Ahnenerbe medical unit could have been tasked with the grisly business of investigating the anatomical details of the "purest of the pure", SS corpses, for - shall we say - physical curiosities.

[Magda Hassan]

Perhaps the Pravda journalist could be emailed for more information? Do you have the name or email contact?

[Helen Reyes]

Helen - I have a great uncle who was most probably executed by the NKVD at Katyn, along with around 22,000 other Poles. Of course, for decades, the USSR blamed this on the Nazis, and British governments from Churchill's to Thatcher's, played along with this Soviet propaganda.

Yes, Jan. I hope this isn't presumptious, but I figured you knew about all the the permutations and possibilites a la Katyn, based solely on your Polish name.

However, this was Ukrainian reporting through Pravda in 2002, so the control mechanisms of the NKVD and KGB and the Soviet Communist Party are less of a factor than previously.

Sure, but there's retribution by locals as a possibility too, I know some very bloody revenge was taken on Nazis in the Ukraine.

If the bodies are from the WW2 era, they are almost certain to be slavs or Germans, not Jews. They could be partisans butchered - by either side, with evidence left to blame the other.

This is the only part I didn't get: why couldn't they be Jewish? Not all Jews were murdered at Babi Yar, and there were plenty of Jewish partisans.

I'm not sure one way or the other, of course, but I'm sure curious what it was really about. Pravda isn't infallible either, I've seen a lot of sensational stuff in Pravda and other Russian newspapers. Very interesting it was next to the kurgan or kurgans. Marija Gimbutas the Lithuanian anthropologist at UCLA I think, made a lot of noise about kurgans being Scythian and proto-Indo-European, but a lot of her work is purely speculative and sometimes even simple circular reasoning based on very little physical evidence. There is another school of thought that thinks the Steppe was Kipchak long before it was Sarmatian, Cimmerian, Scythian, Roxani or Slavic. The Kipchak turks gave rise to the kingdom of Khazaria in Ukraine, but originally hailed from somewhere east of the Caspian (ancient geographers give us multiple Khazarias, just as there were three Indias, ranged roughly west to east).

[Helen Reyes]

The motif of John the Baptists skull is extensive, as is the Templar "talking head" skull Baphomet. Then we have another female skull that features in Southern France and, of course, not to forget the crystal skulls of current fame. And on it goes.

And then there's Pope Sylvester II's oracle computer skull thing.

Examples of the Nine Unknown Men making contact with the outer world are rare. There was, however, the extraordinary case of one of the most mysterious figures in Western history: the Pope Sylvester II, known also by the name of Gerbert d’Aurillac. Born in the Auvergne in 920 (d. 1003) Gerbert was a Benedictine monk, professor at the University of Rheims, Archbishop of Ravenna and Pope by the grace of Otho III. He is supposed to have spent some time in Spain, after which a mysterious voyage brought him to India where he is reputed to have acquired various kinds of skills which stupefied his entourage.

For example, he possessed in his palace a bronze head which answered Yes or No to questions put to it on politics or the general position of Christianity. [cf. "Max the Crystal Skull" of current notoriety -B:.B:.] According to Sylvester II this was a perfectly simple operation corresponding to a two-figure calculation, and was performed by an automaton similar to our modem binary machines. This "magic" head was destroyed when Sylvester died, and all the information it imparted carefully concealed. No doubt an authorized research worker would come across some surprising things in the Vatican Library.

In the cybernetics journal, Computers and Automation of October 1954, the following comment appeared:

"We must suppose that he (Sylvester) was possessed of extraordinary knowledge and the most remarkable mechanical skill and inventiveness. This speaking head must have been fashioned ’under a certain conjunction of stars occurring at the exact moment when all the planets were starting on their courses.’ Neither the past, nor the present nor the future entered into it, since this invention apparently far exceeded in its scope its rival, the perverse ’mirror on the wall’ of the Queen, the precursor of our modern electronic brain. Naturally, it was widely asserted that Gerbert was only able to produce such a machine because he was in league with the Devil and had sworn eternal allegiance to him."

I have been interested in the Black Madonnas of Southern France for some time and the Egyptian connection you speak of Helen, may well connect to the centre of Gypsy faith at the fortified church of Notre Dame de la Mer in the Carmargue.

It's a very plain, masonry church I saw on some Templar special on Discovery or National Geographic once. It should be in the west of Luangedoc somewhere. The bay you mention is where the Cathars say Jesus and Mary reached France by boat.

Although not recognized by the Vatican, Sara is depicted as having black skin and is said to have been Egyptian. Of course one can also trace Gypsies back to their Egyptian origins so the whole thing comes full circle. ...

The last word in Gypsy research I heard put them as natives of Punjab or somewhere in modern India (Rajastan?), but I have to wonder:

LOC Country Studies Afghanistan - Chapter 2 The Society and Environment - Ethnic Groups - Other Groups - Jat

Afghanistan
Jat

There are other small marginal communities of occupational specialists based in eastern Afghanistan in provinces such as Laghman. They are commonly referred to as Jat which is a generic term indiscriminately applied by others with derogatory connotations implying low descent and low occupations. The groups reject the term and refer to themselves by specific names. Of Mediterranean-Indian type physically, speaking Indo-Aryan dialects in addition to Pashto and Dari, they are primarily gypsy-like itinerant petty traders, bangle sellers, fortune-tellers, musicians, jugglers, snake-charmers and performers with animals such as bears and monkeys. Some are specialized craftsmen, working as weavers, potters, sievemakers, knife-makers, and leather-workers. Some hire out as seasonal itinerant farm laborers. They rank lowest on the social scale and are stigmatized by many in the society.

Data as of 1997

It is indeed most interest that Himmler's personal wizard, Nazi Satanist Karl Maria Wiligut claimed to be the King of the Gypsies and used to attend the annual gatherings linked above and was, apparently, well known at them.

Hmm. Two points: "King of the Gypsies" is a title held by mutiple people simultaneously, it refers to the leader of a single band or group, traditionally. The other is the notion that Gypsies were inhabitants for a time in Agartha, and Fred Crisman's association with them, and early alien contact reports and MIBs describing swarthy Gypsy-type men.

I wonder if the creed of the Ebionites or "Poor Men" were adopted in some sense by the Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon, more commonly known as the Knights Templars? Both were very active in the very same part of France as were the Cathars and the composed fable we know as the Priory of Sion.

That's what I was thinking. You can't gainsay the notion the Templars really did receive an early Christian Gnostic text in Alexandria either; the Masonic lore records it, and such manuscripts existed namely there. According to Mead the early Ebionites were strictly Jewish Christians and were banned from Jerusalem for being Jews by the Romans when they rechristened the Jewish capital. The Alexandrian gnostics who were more likely to persist underground until the Middle Ages would be Carpocratians perhaps or some further configuration of thought that is unrecorded.

Of course there would actually need to be the physical historical personage of Jesus Christ for the Nazoræans to follow, and I am unconvinced that what we nowadays regard as JC actually did live and breath (however, that there was a "wise man" named Joshua Ben Joseph I don't really doubt but also don't know very much about to argue the toss either). But that is not to say that the compound story of JC is not a remarkable occult/alchemical cipher in its own right that deserves much attention and even more understanding.[/QUOTE]

From the gnostic perspective the outer exoteric church, or corpus of believers, were unable to perceive the inner teaching, and had to be taught with parables and fables really. The birth story of Jesus and his living in Nazareth is probably made of whole cloth, pure fable. Nazir is a priestly office in the Mandaean religion, it's the first phase of priestcraft I think, like an acolyte priest. He's supposed to separate himself from the world for 40 days or something very much like Jesus's temptations in the wilderness. I'm not certain but I think nazir is related to the Arabic word for reader, someone who reads. Nazareth is just a way to explain away why Jesus was called Nazoraean by earlier Christians. Betheleham is a connexion with the Book of Ruth I believe, the "make-it-so" school of Christian Old Testament prophetical exegesis.

[Chris Bowen]

[size=12]the following text refers to something that this thread has reminded me of , from the following book by a former adviser to Hitler :[/SIZE]

Wagener, O. (1985). Hitler—Memoirs of a Confidant (Henry Ashby Turner, Jr. Ed.). (Ruth Hein, Trans.). London: Yale University Press. (Original work published 1978)

It appears that Hitler did approve of close and affectionate relations between older and younger men, and found a compelling theory to legitimize this in Karl von Reichenbach’s half-baked ideas on personal magnetism, or “Odic force,” as
Reichenbach termed it in the mid-nineteenth century.

Otto Wagener describes how Hitler became positively thrilled as the former
explained Reichenbach’s scheme—“Hitler grasped my arm and looked at me as if he were facing a glittering Christmas tree.” What had caught Hitler’s imagination so
immediately?
Reichenbach postulated that there was an actual, magnetic, “Odic force” that humans produced, most strongly when they were young. The old could produce only inadequate amounts of the force, but they were able to soak up the overproduction of the young through contact with them, though only if both parties were compatible (—the force did not flow randomly). Hitler did not understand this necessarily to be physical contact, but he did view the flow of these magnetic waves as the very key to the success of any military or para-military unit. The officer and his men ideally formed an “Odic community.” The same would be true for the Nazi Party as well: “Wagener, the mystery of the political organization and the organization of the SA has been solved! It’s not racially determined, it’s grounded in this problem!” The more Hitler thought about it, the more he became convinced that he had felt this Odic force: “…it’s the same when I spend time with young men. I have always said that I draw strength to continue my work from the beaming eyes of my young storm troopers. It’s the very same thing.”

Countless contemporaries have reported the mesmerizing effect of Hitler’s
staring deeply into their eyes. And that is the extent to which one would expect the
intimacy to go, given the later homophobia of the Nazi state. But in 1930 Hitler
apparently gave a cautious endorsement to more physical contact. He had rushed off to read Reichenbach’s book, and reported to Wagener that he was applying the ideas to his own thinking. Speaking explicitly of the attraction that young men and boys must feel for a suitably creative older man to whom they wish to transmit their surplus Odic force, the Nazi leader stated: “In my judgment, this has nothing to do with sex. But since the transference of Od energies occurs with greater force and more immediately through physical touch—shaking hands, caressing, even kissing—the urgency of the Od contact also releases a desire for this kind of touch.” Hitler did not consider this inappropriate, as long as it did not deteriorate into a sexual encounter, and there he drew a definite line: “It seems to me all the more abominable if the older man allows this cuddling on the part of the younger man to seduce him into lewd acts or even to go so far as to exploit him for that purpose.” The extraordinary point about this remark is that Hitler does not seem to view a clearly erotic embrace between two men to be reprehensible per se. It was simply a means through which to stimulate the flow of Odic waves.

http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/publications/occasional/2002-04/paper.pdf