At last: Shickshinny Knights of Malta linked to the Draper/Vonsiatsky Condon ManCand crowds

[Jan Klimkowski]

You know the real origin of the term X-Files, right?

If memory serves, it's to do with Crisman and Banister's "flying saucers" psy-op and the filing system for some of the related reports.

Please expand.

Was Philip J. Corso part of this same flying saucers psy-op or another one? He claimed to have witnessed Alien Autopsies, too, in Area 51 was it? Geeze, Bannister did flying saucers psy-ops, too? Wow.

There's plenty of the good stuff here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/...php?t=1107

[John Bevilaqua]

I think it is just idle dreamers and naive amateurs who still believe that there is something remaining, hiding in some deep hidden archive which will reveal the identities of the conspirators. Like some sort of "smoking document" or whatever. Dream on. The investigative methodologies employed by those like James Richards, Dick Russell, Mae Brussel and Bill Turner as well as myself seem to produce the most accurate results. You have to talk with real people, and take their evidence with a very jaundiced eye and then put it together with others who can offer REAL first person evidentiary tidbits.

I am quite certain that Peter's suggestion was meant with the best of intentions and I know for a fact that his long research in these areas is worthy of the best of us.

I am also a fan of Prouty for all sorts of reasons. This thread is not the place to air these sorts of remarks, I think.

I feel we must all be very mindful of how we word our posts so as not to cause unwitting offense.

You are right again, David. Teenage Fascist rears it's ugly head again. Here is a quote from L. Fletcher Prouty (who is deceased and beyond taking any offense <grin>) It might just possibly convince you to move Prouty over to the column headed disinformation agent, JFK hater, witting agent of the conspiracy, obfuscator and debilitator. I am a bit surprised that you seem to be still enamored of this guy at all.

L. Fletcher Prouty at C.O.P.A. conference in either 1993 or 1994. This never made the sex, lies and video tapes either. Surprise, surprise.

"You know the Kennedys just came over on the boat, when....? right after World War I or thereabouts, and they just thought they could take over this country and run it the way they wanted to without regard to anything. Well I can trace my heritage back at least 5 or 6 generations and maybe even back to the Plymouth Plantation and the Mayflower itself, I am still looking into that. (short pause...) (Then with a sneer on his face... and real anger and bitterness in his voice.) Well, I guess we taught those Kennedys a thing or two now, didn't we?" The audience just went into shocked and stunned silence with only a little bit of barely audible tittering, whispering and chatting. Someone tapped him on the shoulder and he then continued with a more standard tone of voice and a more anti-Gov pro-Kennedy line of bullshit.

When I asked him exactly WHO were the WE you referred to in your statements regarding teaching the Kennedys a thing or two. He just stared back at me sullenly and silently. I said What is the matter? Cat got your tongue? (pause... more sullen silent staring.) More tittering, chatting, shuffling of feet in the audience. Someone in the audience said to me... Why don't you sit down? I said why don't you go phuck yourself then? Then they called a break in the questioning and spliced this incident out of the video tapes which were later sold.

Earlier some guy who looked like he could have been Barry Goldwater's son right down to the black, horn rimmed glasses confided to me during a break"

"You know Colonel Prouty is just like 'US' on the Nigger issues!" Later he said to me "You know that 6,000,000 lie about killing the Jews and the concentration camp thing was not a German thing it was a Polish thing." I said: "What!" He said: "Yeah, Auschwitz was in Poland, not in Germany you know." I faked a gut shot punch on him... and he wimped out and backed off from me as far as he could get. Fat mouth saying THAT to someone with a Polish heritage.

Now what were you just saying about Prouty the rotten lousy bastidge and the KKK supporter, the Kennedy-hater, the lineage lord, the Holocaust Revisionist and the anti-Semite, too? You still think he was telling the truth about anything? Guy from Canada did a fact-check on his New Zealand story and punched it so full of holes it sank to the bottom along with Prouty. Third Decade article. Shannon something maybe. Check out the Mary Ferrell site.

Thanks John.

On Prouty, I have read all his books and found them unusually informative at a time when there was little enough information around. I also think it difficult to typify him as a KKK supporter, Holocaust revisionist and anti-Semite on the say so of a third party claiming to speak on his behalf. But, as always, I am open to being convinced if there is genuine evidence in support of these claims (but a different dedicated thread would be the best answer on this, I think). Your comment re the NZ story is intriguing and if you're able to remember the Canadian's name so I can dig deeper I will -- assuming that the person referenced is himself genuine and not on some sort of mission.

The Shannon guy who debunked both Robert Morrow and L. Fletcher Prouty
was Ulric Shannon and he posted his address in a Third Decade article as 4915 Coolbrook Ave. Montreal Quebec, Canada H3X 2KS but that was about 14-15 years ago. He could still be there for all I know. He was really young then like mid-20s max. No luck finding the EXACT Prouty or Morrow debunking articles by Ulric Shannon on the Mary Ferrell site or my Kensington Miami Connections article for that matter. Will try elsewhere. Ulric was one of Dr. Jerry Rose's rising young stars but then he disappeared from the horizon when Jerry stopped publishing. Too bad. He and Sheldon Inkol were pretty darn good at what they did and Ulric at least was considered reliable, capable and trustworthy. He did a bit too much debunking for the liking of some, but he was ALWAYS right on the money. He even got the medical records of Robert Morrow and showed that he never got treatment for some alleged cigarette burn holes in his thigh as he claimed once during a trip to a Miami hospital on a given date. How he got them I do not know, but I am jealous. More RM/CryOps bull. Morrow wrote for the Holocaust Denial outfit Regnery Press.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Talking of nuggets glistening in shit, it is perhaps timely to chuck the following last supperinginginging into this discussion....

The only detail that pops to mind is the Polannski/Tate dinner on the eve of of RFK's assassination, but I can't remember the connexion.

Allegedly, on the night before Senator Robert Kennedy's assassination (June 5, 1968), RFK had dinner with director John Frankenheimer and Roman Polanski and his wife Sharon Tate.

Frankenheimer was of course the director of the original The Manchurian Candidate and Seven Days In May. John F Kennedy apparently spoke with Frankenheimer about both projects.

Technical adviser on The Manchurian Candidate was MK-ULTRA programmer, William Jennings Bryan, who has links to Candy Jones and Sirhan Sirhan (amongst many other notables).

A nugget best contemplated in the fullness of the thread....

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/...php?t=2306

[John Bevilaqua]

Somewhere I read that The Protocols were White Russian forgeries...Can not recall precisely.

They were translated into Russian and popularized in St. Petersburg around the time of Rasputin. That's basically where the ominous conspiracy surrounding them comes from, from the Russian version and fanfare then and there.

Gimmie a rehash then: Written in French (when and by whom?) then translated to Russian (when and by whom?) then into English by friends of Boris Brasol (according to my sources)? Done maybe by someone named Natalie Bogorodny or something close to that? Published and popularized while Morris and Brasol were at Coudert Brothers!

[David Guyatt]

The Shannon guy who debunked both Robert Morrow and L. Fletcher Prouty
was Ulric Shannon and he posted his address in a Third Decade article as 4915 Coolbrook Ave. Montreal Quebec, Canada H3X 2KS but that was about 14-15 years ago. He could still be there for all I know. He was really young then like mid-20s max. No luck finding the EXACT Prouty or Morrow debunking articles by Ulric Shannon on the Mary Ferrell site or my Kensington Miami Connections article for that matter. Will try elsewhere. Ulric was one of Dr. Jerry Rose's rising young stars but then he disappeared from the horizon when Jerry stopped publishing. Too bad. He and Sheldon Inkol were pretty darn good at what they did and Ulric at least was considered reliable, capable and trustworthy. He did a bit too much debunking for the liking of some, but he was ALWAYS right on the money. He even got the medical records of Robert Morrow and showed that he never got treatment for some alleged cigarette burn holes in his thigh as he claimed once during a trip to a Miami hospital on a given date. How he got them I do not know, but I am jealous. More RM/CryOps bull. Morrow wrote for the Holocaust Denial outfit Regnery Press.

Again thank you John. I have been unable so far to find his piece. In searching, however, I came across a couple of Prouty was a nut/disinfo type websites that I never even knew existed. I wasn't aware that he caused this amount of fervour. In briefly reading them I find I cannot take them at all seriously. This and this in particular they look and smell to me to be unpleasant hatchet jobs in that they take Prouty's hypothesis (repeat hypothesis) and use their own hypotheses as obvious fact to deconstruct what he proposed. It's exceedingly poor and jaded journalism in my opinion. Of course I would need to read Ulric Shannon's piece itself to progress further.

In the meantime I think it is probably right to continue this thread without this deviation.

Thanks again.

[Helen Reyes]

Jan: on False Memory Syndrome: the Thurston County, Washington stuff that gave rise to the Satanic Panic, satanic ritual abuse hysteria, and the backlash to that in the form of the false memory movement, centered around a very cult-like Church of Living Water. Church members were instructed and helped by their pastor to "beat the demons out" of misbehaving children. It wasn't a few whacks with a willow sprig either, it left permanent scarring on their backs. What I'm suggesting is that the Satanic Panic and its flipside in False Memory could've been engineered as a partial cover for emerging MKULTRA secrets.

David: I hope we can all be civil as well, and I hope I didn't come across as sarcastic at any point except Pennsylvania Dutch Waffen SS, which was meant as a joke. I said "blackamoor" for historical reasons only. Everything else was sincere.

Peter and Magda: Some archives were opened, some were not. Yeltsin initially threw too much open to the Americans and quickly shut those archives off again. Russian State Archives selling stuff sounds plausible and likely. If the Harbin MKULTRA center is being suppressed, you have to ask, what is Russia's interest to do so? I see none. It doesn't touch on Russian/Soviet prestige at all, if it existed then it was run by traitorous Russians and their Japanese masters. It's not explosive, like Stalin working for the Tsar's Okhrana. It is dirty enough that Russia wouldn't have let it be carted off by Americans. Speculation, but then I see no evidence such a Harbin mind control enterprise ever operated. GRU files would have info on it, imo.

John: I think no one is quite certain about the provenance of the Protocols. It first appears in history in Peterburg, if I recall right. There was some reason to believe it was a translation, but whether from French, I don't know and I don't think anyone does. Russia was very francophile in those days among the upper classes, and there is evidence of a partially fake Priory of Sion in France, in its later incarnation very much a part of the extreme French right wing's lexicon of intrigue. The Dreyfuss Affair is a nice fit, it's aesthetically pleasing. Importing that sort of divisiveness, and France was totally divided over Dreyfuss, might have been the desire of forces close to the Tsar, pursuing an anti-Semitic agenda in the Russian military and government, or purely for personal reasons.

I'm positive some scholars have done work on the origins of the Protocols, but I'm not familiar with their work. The disinformative but interesting Holy Blood, Holy Grail does connect them with the French Priory, and contends the contents were misinterpreted in Russia, that this was a plan for world domination by a secret French society a la the Templars, militant Cathars or disenfranchised Knights of some kind in Languedoc. David and Jan I hope will correct me if I misstated what Holy Blood claimed.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Jan: on False Memory Syndrome: the Thurston County, Washington stuff that gave rise to the Satanic Panic, satanic ritual abuse hysteria, and the backlash to that in the form of the false memory movement, centered around a very cult-like Church of Living Water. Church members were instructed and helped by their pastor to "beat the demons out" of misbehaving children. It wasn't a few whacks with a willow sprig either, it left permanent scarring on their backs. What I'm suggesting is that the Satanic Panic and its flipside in False Memory could've been engineered as a partial cover for emerging MKULTRA secrets.

(My emphasis in bold) That is an entirely likely hypothesis, and is discussed in that thread and others on DPF.

The False Memory Syndrome Foundation serves as a textbook psyop, used to manipulate public opinion and cover up the crimes of long-running covert "mind control" programmes whose visible tips include Projects Artichoke, Bluebird and MK-ULTRA.

Joël van der Reijden's essential website has a very useful introduction to key members of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation.

http://www.isgp.eu/dutroux/FMSF_freaks.htm

Please note that when FMSF was founded in 1992, the involvement of many of its members in everything from "mind control" research to the promotion of paedophilia was not known. The grisly reality was uncovered during the 1990s (and afterwards) by diligent researchers, even if much of the information has been ignored by MSM.

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/....php?t=122

[David Guyatt]

John: I think no one is quite certain about the provenance of the Protocols. It first appears in history in Peterburg, if I recall right. There was some reason to believe it was a translation, but whether from French, I don't know and I don't think anyone does. Russia was very francophile in those days among the upper classes, and there is evidence of a partially fake Priory of Sion in France, in its later incarnation very much a part of the extreme French right wing's lexicon of intrigue. The Dreyfuss Affair is a nice fit, it's aesthetically pleasing. Importing that sort of divisiveness, and France was totally divided over Dreyfuss, might have been the desire of forces close to the Tsar, pursuing an anti-Semitic agenda in the Russian military and government, or purely for personal reasons.

I'm positive some scholars have done work on the origins of the Protocols, but I'm not familiar with their work. The disinformative but interesting Holy Blood, Holy Grail does connect them with the French Priory, and contends the contents were misinterpreted in Russia, that this was a plan for world domination by a secret French society a la the Templars, militant Cathars or disenfranchised Knights of some kind in Languedoc. David and Jan I hope will correct me if I misstated what Holy Blood claimed.

Far more intriguing to my mind is the suggestion made by British PoS researcher and author, Guy Patton, that the Protocols were originally a Martinist document written or authorised by Papus and misinterpreted (whether knowingly or not) by Nilus etc. It is a fact that there was a Martinist Lodge in Moscow frequented by Russian royals of the time (I think the Tsar from memory but don't count on that), and that Papus travelled to Moscow to attend this Lodge prior to the Protocols coming into existence (again from memory so caution is advised).

I know and have met Guy and consider his research to be good and he may well be right about this. I certainly think it is a real possibility.

[John Bevilaqua]

Talking of nuggets glistening in shit, it is perhaps timely to chuck the following last supperinginginging into this discussion....

The only detail that pops to mind is the Polannski/Tate dinner on the eve of of RFK's assassination, but I can't remember the connexion.

Allegedly, on the night before Senator Robert Kennedy's assassination (June 5, 1968), RFK had dinner with director John Frankenheimer and Roman Polanski and his wife Sharon Tate.

Frankenheimer was of course the director of the original The Manchurian Candidate and Seven Days In May. John F Kennedy apparently spoke with Frankenheimer about both projects.

Technical adviser on The Manchurian Candidate was MK-ULTRA programmer, William Jennings Bryan, who has links to Candy Jones and Sirhan Sirhan (amongst many other notables).

A nugget best contemplated in the fullness of the thread....

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/...php?t=2306

I saw an interview once where Frankenheimer was discussing the ManCand project with Sinatra where they claimed they "just wanted to do Dick Condon's book." And yet the movie STARTS with a close pan of a portrait of MacArthur and later includes a scene of soldiers playing poker with MacArthur's portrait, inside the tent overlooking them. So the last scene in Madison Square Garden with the name of the Candidate as: Benjamin K. Arthur is fer shure, fer shure meant to be Douglas MacArthur. Agreed? His father in law was Benjamin, as I recall. So how did Sinatra and Frankenheimer know to emphasize Gen. Douglas MacArthur? From Condon alone. And the book has absolutely NO REFS to Abraham Lincoln, yet the movie has maybe 3 of them. A Lincoln bronze bust with a pan-in close-up, one of the Senators dressed up as Abe Lincoln at a costume party and another which I have forgotten now. And that bit about a caviar laced buffet item in the shape of an American flag was NOT in the book either. The movie was black and white but the Senator (Iselin?) talks about how the caviar was OK since it was Polish, not Russian. The caviar must have been both the Red and Black variations (for Red and Black Russians?) with the flag stripes being white somehow. Where is the Red, White and Blue? Was the German flag Red and Black or was it something else?
So my only point is that they SAID they wanted to do Dick Condon's book, but they deviated from it a lot.

Condon also inserted TONS OF NEGATIVE TEMPLATES in his book, too. The guy who played Senator J. Strom Thurmond was named Senator Thomas Jordan (same letters in both names=anagram) but he was a lefty liberal commie pinko while Thurmond was just the opposite, righty conservative Nazi bastidge. Maybe a dozen negative templates in ManCand. Dinner time. Ding... ding... ding goes the microwave. Pavlovian salivations begin. Woof. Woof. Scratch, scratch, scratch.

One other point. GLK Smith is NAMED in the book specifically, no anagrams no word plays no nothing. His Nazi Silver Shirts ID number was 3223, a palindrome. What was the phone number when Lee Harvey, the actor playing the assassin was called by his controller, his Mom? Yes, I said Lee Harvey, the actor, but no Oswald though. The phone number was EL-3223 it was. Now that is real predictive symbolism. Blows me away. Actor Lee Harvey played the Lee Harvey Oswald character in ManCand. Blows me away.

And the Manson family murders were done on a very significant date in Nazi history and lore. August 8, 1969 was the date. Hitler hanged the 8 Generals behind the Plot to Kill Hitler on 8/8 as well. Why 8/8 for Manson besides this factoid? What is the 8th letter of the alphabet? H it is.
So 8/8 always meant Heil Hitler and Manson was a neo-Nazi who carved the swastika in his forehead. Blows me away.

This Hitler plot was executed and planned by my Great Uncle Klaus Schenck von Stauffenberg on 7/20/1944. Why on that date? Hitler was born on 4/20 but he was CONCEIVED on 7/20 of the PREVIOUS YEAR and he conceived of The Waffen SS on 7/20/34 exactly 10 years before that. That is why they chose 7/20/44.

What else besides the Moon Landing showed up on page one of the NY Times the day AFTER the moon landing? Taco Bell nachos to the winner... It involved yet another Kennedy. Fun stuff huh? This one REALLY BLOWS ME AWAY. Betcha Guyatt or HR/NOP PsyOps gets it first.

More later...

[David Guyatt]

John, are you suggesting that Helen Reyes is some sort of psyops operative? Is that the reason you use the unreasonable term RH/NoP PsyOps to describe her?

I feel quite strongly that attacking/misrepresenting other researchers and members of this forum contravenes the forum rules and I wish to direct your attention to the forums decorum and rules of engagement thread HERE, and in particular draw your attention to item 1. (in the event you haven't read them already).

They are strictly adhered to. I assure you.

Let us, therefore, continue this very interesting and intriguing thread without further disruption and/or objectionable terms/descriptions being used henceforward.