At last: Shickshinny Knights of Malta linked to the Draper/Vonsiatsky Condon ManCand crowds

[Stan Wilbourne]

Morgan/Rockefeller ordered Kennedy's death, no?

The order to kill JFK came from the heart of the American political system. The American political system is Wall Street. Who they hire to do their dirty work is of little consequence.

Rockefeller, Dupont, Cabot, Lodge, Morgan.

Dulles, McCloy

Cheney, Rumsfield, Baker, Rubin...

God, Oil, Drugs...

Who do they all work for?

And, oh yeah. Let's not forget the Bush lackeys.

When you examine the American Empire, David and Nelson Rockefeller are at the tip of the ice berg.

Private business to government. Rape. Pillage. Rob. Steal a countries resources. Rape the poor. Enslave. It's business, with a business model in place. Presidents don't stand in the way. Elections don't matter. Assassination is a way of life, domestic or foreign. Nothing stands in the way.

Who has been the single most powerful person in the U.S. for fifty years?

Did he have a motive for killing JFK? Did he have the means? Could he and his organization have covered it up? Did he (they) prosper after Kennedy's death? What is the primary driving force behind all U.S. policy, domestic and abroad? Was JFK in the way?

"That little Kennedy. He thought he was a god."

Right, Allen. We know there is only one god in the United States. How dare Kennedy to think he was there for the people. All the people.

Allen Dulles, John McCloy, Henry Kessinger, McGeorge Bundy, Dean Rusk, Richard Helms, Ed Lansdale, David Atlee Phillips, James Reston, Walt and Eugene Rostow, Joe Alsop, Dean Acheson, Averill Harriman, Clarence Dillion, Henry Luce and C.D. Jackson. Who did they really work for? Where was their allegiance on 11-22-63? Rogue elements? Hah! I don't think so. This isn't the Mafia, or Cuba, or Texas Oil, or the CIA. It is beyond and in control of all those.

Peter Dale Scott makes the point that Kennedy's murder was not a coup de tat. That implies a change of power. JFK's death was to maintain power, to maintain control. They (Rockefeller/Morgan) had it, and they weren't about to hand it over to the Kennedy's. He had to go.

There is no opposition politics in the United States. We have one party. It is the party of profit, and it does what it wants with an controlled media and an uneducated electorate. We are brainwashed to accept authority and fear chaos that has been orchestrated to instill confusion and the need for control. It is all grand theatre.

Oil is gold. Does anyone really think Obama can change this? Matt Taibbi wonders in the latest edition of Rolling Stone if Obama has changed or if Wall Street is just a fundamental controlling element of the American political system. Taibbi is a brilliant young writer, but he hasn't caught on to this yet? Jann Wenner should know better.

Abraham Lincoln riding a steed sent directly from God couldn't change any of this. Abe and his stallion would be sent straight to Dealey Plaza, with multiple Oswalds and a thousand anxious Corsicans waiting behind the Grassy Knoll fence. Change will come, if it comes at all, one person at time. But, we're running out of time.

I have three children that are coming of age. I fear for them. At the dinner table we speak of these things, and I warn them. This is the world in which you live. Don't ever support any of this nonsense. Think for yourselves. The only authority you have is your ability to think. Don't trust anyone. Your teachers, your parents, the government, the church, no one. All you have is you. Nothing stands between you, this earth and whatever created you but your own intelligence. Live by it. Trust in only it. It is all you have.

[John Bevilaqua]

Morgan/Rockefeller ordered Kennedy's death, no?

The order to kill JFK came from the heart of the American political system. The American political system is Wall Street. Who they hire to do their dirty work is of little consequence.

Rockefeller, Dupont, Cabot, Lodge, Morgan.

Dulles, McCloy

Cheney, Rumsfield, Baker, Rubin...

God, Oil, Drugs...

Who do they all work for?

And, oh yeah. Let's not forget the Bush lackeys.

Absolutely right on the money, Stan. I am going to bring over some of my relevant postings from another site on this exact issue. The topmost level with the pompous, holier than thou Patrician and Brahmin tier, involved the families originally involved with the British East India Trade and Shipping Company who ran the original Clipper Ship Trade Routes which brought over the opium, the cotton, the tobacco, the teas and the spices, the rum, and all those items right to the Boston India Wharf Counting Houses to divvy up the spoils. I found a total of 6-7 of these families represented at the now infamous Draper-Taft wedding party in Hopedale, MA in 1917. They included the Sturgis family oddly enough, the Higginsons, the Alsops, the Drapers, the Tafts, the Prestons, and a whole slew of similar families most of of whom had ties into the Russell Trust and the Skull and Bones Society or Scroll and Key at Yale University. Over 75% of that wedding party ended up in either Military Intelligence, the OSS or the CIA. They all ended up utilizing using Gen. Smedley Butler, Maverick Marine, first to fight their Banana Wars then to try to oust FDR on behalf of the Boston Fruit Company of the Prestons and the Drapers, then later United Fruit of the Paines, the Forbes, the brothers Dulles, the Cabots and the Lodges. You probably know by now that they tried to convince Gen. Smedley Butler to carry out the coup d'etat attempt against FDR in the 1930's but he turned all the louts in. Well that was a project of J. P. Morgan and Wickliffe Preston Draper and John J. Raskob and Gerald M-P Murphy venture and a lot of the same players showed up for the JFK festivities as well. Take a look at the work done by Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin on the Bush family. They were among the first, if not the very first, to isolate the families involved with the Eugenics programs of the Bush, Farish, Grays and the Rockefellers (they left out the Drapers) with the Banana Wars of Boston Fruit and later United Fruit and the British East India Trading Company families and to identify them as the money bags behind both the JFK and the FDR attempts.

Later the Scaifes, the Mellons and the Regnerys came back to run the Character Assassination attempts on Bill Clinton which also failed.

But the only family group involved first in the use of the Clipper Ships from the British East India Trading Company to transport both slaves and cotton into the new world, then to start The Boston Fruit Company (the Prestons) in 1900 which became United Fruit, and to both start and then develop The American Eugenics Society Society as well as the Eugenics and Involuntary Sterilization Programs of both Wickliffe Preston Draper AND Adolph Hitler (the Drapers and the Grays at Bowman Gray Medical School) and to also be heavily involved with Gen. Smedley Butler's Banana Wars and Regime Changes and the Coup attempts against both FDR AND JFK using his J. P. Morgan trust accounts was the personification of evil incarnate, the original dirty rotten bastidge, the model for Big Daddy Warbucks in Little Orphan Annie, the original Dr. Evil, none other than Wickliffe Preston Draper.

So what I am trying to say is that if you solve the FDR coup attempt perpetrated by those who brought you Chiquita Bananas and Nabisco Shredded Wheat plus The Banana Wars to protect your right to buy Chiquita Bananas and Sugar or Cotton grown by either Latin American or Deep South plantation slave owners or the New England Textile Mill company town slave owners who all worked for either the British Prestons or the American Drapers then you have also solved the JFK coup as well. It was the inventors of Eugenics, the Slave Plantations and the Company Town modeled after slave plantations and its founders from The Pioneer Fund and their friends in the Hitler loving crowd who put it all together in a nice neat package twice already.
Hitler was their type of politician and FDR and JFK were not.

Vonsiatsky came from the Ream family who started the National Biscuit Company makers of Nabisco Shredded Wheat and Draper came from the Draper and Preston lines who started first Boston Fruit and later United Fruit. The Prestons are one of the biggest defense industry players in England and the Drapers who ended up with $100,000,000 of Rockwell stock were one of the biggest in the USA. And yes our good comrade, "Annie" Vonsiatsky was included by Harold Gray as the personification of "Little Orphan Annie" in the comic strip of the same name. Just suspend disbelief for a minute. So add Harold Gray to Richard Condon as the first writers to identify this dangerous duo and what they were planning to do to all of humanity.

And the Drapers and the Prestons were also involved with several of the Civil War era sore loser Confederates who snuffed Abraham Lincoln because he broke up their monopoly and the cartel involved in slave plantations and cotton trading. And the rest is history.

So whenever someone tries to tell you that the Prestons and the Drapers had 'nothing' to do with the JFK assassination, tell them you know better. If they say the Prestons and the Drapers had 'nothing' to do with the FDR coup and Gen. Smedley Butler and his Banana Wars and 'nothing' to do with the assassination of Abe Lincoln and the owners of Garrett's farm where John Wilkes Booth was found hiding tell them you know better. Because now you do.

Tell 'em "Quod Est Demonstratum." The Draper/Vonsiatsky wave of murder, violence, repression and mayhem has got to stop.

[John Bevilaqua]

Allen Dulles:

"That little Kennedy. He thought he was a god."

Right, Allen. We know there is only one god in the United States. How dare Kennedy to think he was there for the people. All the people.

Allen Dulles, John McCloy, Henry Kessinger, McGeorge Bundy, Dean Rusk, Richard Helms, Ed Lansdale, David Atlee Phillips, James Reston, Walt and Eugene Rostow, Joe Alsop, Dean Acheson, Averill Harriman, Clarence Dillion, Henry Luce and C.D. Jackson. Who did they really work for? Where was their allegiance on 11-22-63?

Stan, we actually agree much more than you may even realize. You have not seen my postings on alternate sites on these same topics.

And to me, the most powerful behind the scenes manipulator of the entire 20th Century was Wickliffe Preston Draper. Draper and his cousin Andrew Preston started Boston Fruit in 1900 which later became United Fruit, his Eugenics friends contacted William Nelson Cromwell who had formed Sullivan and Cromwell around 1900. Draper and Cromwell were among the people who INVENTED Regime Change and Draper asked them to hire the next young protege of Cromwell's Allen Welsh Dulles and to teach him all about Regime Change, about how to make War into a Racket, and how to influence public opinion and how to become the designated Watch Dog for United Fruit, and Draper and Sons as their company stores. And that is what Cromwell did.

They gave this young promising talent, Allen W. Dulles his first shares in United Fruit for a deep discount or as year-end bonuses so he would be committed to the concept of using Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler and the entire U.S. Marine Corps first to run their Banana Wars against the Banana dictators and then later to launch a coup against FDR but he turned the louts in.

So in fact, according to this readily verifiable scenario, the brothers Dulles were the Banana plantation owners Military Police, armed thugs and their intelligence unit all rolled into one, and Dulles was merely the paid lackey and biatch of the Drapers, the Prestons, the Paines, the Forbes, the Lowells, Reams, the Bushes and the Cabots and the Cromwells, too.

So how can someone who is the paid lackey of Wickliffe Preston Draper and Andrew Preston and those of their ilk, be all that important, as pivotal a role as he played? But you are on the right track, you just have not traced it back to the original sponsors and tutors and the inspiration of their young protege. You think the brothers Dulles invented PsyOps and Propaganda and Covert Intelligence and Regime Change? Hardly. They were neophytes just following the lead of Draper and Cromwell. William Nelson Cromwell was the one who first turned the Order of St. John (OSJ) into an intelligence gathering force. He brought both John McCloy and William Donovan along and would have Knighted Dulles and Draper but he was a Presbyterian and Draper was a Unitarian. Cromwell was the OSJ Grand Poohbah at the time.

And Cromwell was just taking the model of the other OSJ Grand Priors before him since 1050 A.D. and teaching the future Knights of Malta how to play the game of Knights in shining armor. Even William J. Donovan was a Knight of the OSJ and Dulles learned the OSS PsyOps game and the United Fruit Banana Protectorate schemes from Donovan. So, to me Dulles was a relative minion to these big whigs but to you he was the most important man in the 20th Century. And Dulles learned how to be Hitlers little beatch (a job which he did so well) because Wickliffe Preston Draper told him to do it. And Dulles said yes, sir, right away sir, anything else sir? And who taught Dulles about Mind Control and Manchurian Candidate games? Dr. Carleton S. Coon yet another Draper Eugenics lackey and the role model for the Indiana Jones character and Uliuss L. Amoss. Allen Dulles was the protege of William Nelson Sullivan who died in 1948 at the age of about 94 and he became his alter ego, but the never exceeded his masters skills and talents. And when Draper told Dulles to jump he said how high? And after Dulles was fired by JFK he joined a bunch of other pro-Nazis from The Shickshinny Knights of Maltas Armed Services Committee under Drapers direction like Charles Willoughby, Bonner Fellers, Philip J. Corso and Pedro A. del Valle all of whom were cited in ManCand by Condon and hatched the plot that changed the world. Both Fellers and del Valle have only recently been identifed as Drapers biatches, del Valle by Prof. William Tucker and Fellers by me. The Fellers office of "For America" was in the same building as the United Fruit Office in New Orleans where Gatlin and Bannister ran a division of Drapers World Anti-Communist League called the Anti-Communist League of the Caribbean. Everybody involved with the JFK hit was either Cromwells biatch or later Drapers biatch. And Dulles, he was just a gopher compared to these guys and he learned everything he knew at his Daddys knee. Whos your Daddy, Allen? Wickliffe Preston Draper and William Nelson Cromwell, he said, they are my Gods and my Godfathers. Allen, peel me a Chiquita Banana (started by the Drapers and Prestons) and please put it on my Shredded Wheat (started by Louis B. Ream, Marion Reams father and Vonsiatskys would be father in law). Oh and by the way Draper was the role model for Big Daddy Warbucks and Annnie Vonsiatsky was the negative template for Little Orphan "Annie".

So who had JFK killed? Tell your children: Big Daddy Warbucks and Little Orphan Annie using mind control techniques of both Indiana Jones and THE Manchurian Candidate from Harbin, Manchuria, Anastase Andreivitch Vonsiatsy-Vonsiatskoy. AA-VV is really 11-22.

The plot was hatched over a bowl of Louis B. Ream's Nabisco Shredded Wheat with United Fruit Chiquita Banana slices over the top with a side order of Jimmy Dean Sausage from the Ream Chicago Pork Corner and a Soybean shake which came from both Willoughby's and H.L. Hunt's cornering of the Soybeans Futures Markets just before the outbreak of The Korean War. What a parlay that was.

And your list at the top is darn close IMHO. But I still see Dean Rusk, Dean Acheson and Walt Rostow as people who CAUSED JFK to be murdered due to their blind compliance with the detente policies of both Truman and JFK. I can't see where they would ever turn on both Truman and JFK and join up with MacArthur AND Willoughby and Dulles and Charles Cabell all of whom they had recommended for termination with prejudice when they both worked for either Truman or JFK. Why would they join up with BOTH Dulles and Cabell who hated them both with a purple passion?
They were JFKs biatches and Trumans biatches. Your brush is sometimes just a bit too wide, but I really respect and accept your characterizations of most of the others in YOUR Dirty Dozen. And as for Condon's Dirty Dozen... now there was a list of dirty rotten scoundrels, Fascists, Nazis and bastidges to the nth degree. And they did it all for Christ the King as part of either SKOM or SMOM with some advice from Opus Dei but NO logistics support from them. Would you be willing to reconsider your characterizations of Rusk, Acheson and Rostow and maybe even McGeorge Bundy who was really a big JFK fan for his entire life, based on all these assumptions? I mean Rostow caused right winger Otto F. Otepka to be fired for leaking classified documents during the Rostow confirmation hearings. And Otepka was eventually Oswald's Travel Agent in the Passport Security Office in the State Dept. and a close fiend of both Morris and Willoughby, too, and even James B. Utt, head of an important House appropriations committee.

Killing Commies for Christ or Killing Muslims for Christ, all in a day's work though. Amen and please pass the ammunition.

[Dawn Meredith]

Morgan/Rockefeller ordered Kennedy's death, no?

The order to kill JFK came from the heart of the American political system. The American political system is Wall Street. Who they hire to do their dirty work is of little consequence.

Rockefeller, Dupont, Cabot, Lodge, Morgan.

Dulles, McCloy

Cheney, Rumsfield, Baker, Rubin...

God, Oil, Drugs...

Who do they all work for?

And, oh yeah. Let's not forget the Bush lackeys.

When you examine the American Empire, David and Nelson Rockefeller are at the tip of the ice berg.

Private business to government. Rape. Pillage. Rob. Steal a countries resources. Rape the poor. Enslave. It's business, with a business model in place. Presidents don't stand in the way. Elections don't matter. Assassination is a way of life, domestic or foreign. Nothing stands in the way.

Who has been the single most powerful person in the U.S. for fifty years?

Did he have a motive for killing JFK? Did he have the means? Could he and his organization have covered it up? Did he (they) prosper after Kennedy's death? What is the primary driving force behind all U.S. policy, domestic and abroad? Was JFK in the way?

"That little Kennedy. He thought he was a god."

Right, Allen. We know there is only one god in the United States. How dare Kennedy to think he was there for the people. All the people.

Allen Dulles, John McCloy, Henry Kessinger, McGeorge Bundy, Dean Rusk, Richard Helms, Ed Lansdale, David Atlee Phillips, James Reston, Walt and Eugene Rostow, Joe Alsop, Dean Acheson, Averill Harriman, Clarence Dillion, Henry Luce and C.D. Jackson. Who did they really work for? Where was their allegiance on 11-22-63? Rogue elements? Hah! I don't think so. This isn't the Mafia, or Cuba, or Texas Oil, or the CIA. It is beyond and in control of all those.

Peter Dale Scott makes the point that Kennedy's murder was not a coup de tat. That implies a change of power. JFK's death was to maintain power, to maintain control. They (Rockefeller/Morgan) had it, and they weren't about to hand it over to the Kennedy's. He had to go.

There is no opposition politics in the United States. We have one party. It is the party of profit, and it does what it wants with an controlled media and an uneducated electorate. We are brainwashed to accept authority and fear chaos that has been orchestrated to instill confusion and the need for control. It is all grand theatre.

Oil is gold. Does anyone really think Obama can change this? Matt Taibbi wonders in the latest edition of Rolling Stone if Obama has changed or if Wall Street is just a fundamental controlling element of the American political system. Taibbi is a brilliant young writer, but he hasn't caught on to this yet? Jann Wenner should know better.

Abraham Lincoln riding a steed sent directly from God couldn't change any of this. Abe and his stallion would be sent straight to Dealey Plaza, with multiple Oswalds and a thousand anxious Corsicans waiting behind the Grassy Knoll fence. Change will come, if it comes at all, one person at time. But, we're running out of time.

I have three children that are coming of age. I fear for them. At the dinner table we speak of these things, and I warn them. This is the world in which you live. Don't ever support any of this nonsense. Think for yourselves. The only authority you have is your ability to think. Don't trust anyone. Your teachers, your parents, the government, the church, no one. All you have is you. Nothing stands between you, this earth and whatever created you but your own intelligence. Live by it. Trust in only it. It is all you have.

Stan:
Great post. I am going to copy and paste for my own grown child and her kids. It's great that your family has discussions like this but sad that you have to. Welcome to DPF. Wondered where you'd gone.
I thought of you on our respective birthdays.
Best,
Dawn
ps. John, I don't disagree with anything you are saying. First person research is certainly the best way to go. Hey, perhaps you'd like to take a little trip to Santa Rosa, California. Have a come to Jesus meeting with Ruth Paine who is residing in an assisted living facility there. Perhaps she'd welcome the chance to finally bare her soul before she meets her maker. If I was not working full time I'd be on a plane out there tomorrow. You just never know when someone might want to have a little confessional when close to the end. She certainly has more than much to tell.

[John Bevilaqua]

ps. John, I don't disagree with anything you are saying. First person research is certainly the best way to go. Hey, perhaps you'd like to take a little trip to Santa Rosa, California. Have a come to Jesus meeting with Ruth Paine who is residing in an assisted living facility there. Perhaps she'd welcome the chance to finally bare her soul before she meets her maker. If I was not working full time I'd be on a plane out there tomorrow. You just never know when someone might want to have a little confessional when close to the end. She certainly has more than much to tell.

Wish I was not working full time, too. But to harass someone on or near their deathbed is just something I would never do. And my best interviews are done with my "newspaper newsroom soundtracks" running in the background from All the King's Men as if I was ready to go to press with some breaking news. You know kinda like Woodward and Bernstein with lots of phones ringing, typewriters clacking, paper shuffling and teletypes running. Works every time. Even up until the 1990's when all that stuff had been replaced with more silent machines. I am such a devious little bastidge. But do they ever follow the rules? No? :evil::creep::bandit::hahaha: And it is not against the law to say you are a freelance journalist either.

Without the input and support from Mary Ferrell, Bill Turner, Dick Russell, James Richards, Bill Kelly, Roy Hargraves, Lt. Gracey Lockhart, Joe Milteer, George Michael Evica, Gordon Whineslow, Nathaniel Weyl, Spas T. Raikin, Chip Berlet, Gordon Hall and Grace Hoag from the Hall-Hoag collection at Brown, James Hosty, Charles Drago, Ken Rahn, Dr. Jerry Rose, Ted Gittinger, Russ Bellant, Mark Diaz, John Simkin, Peter Lemkin, David Guyatt, David Boylan, Jon and Scott Anderson, Wes McCuen, Armen Dernounian, Walter Baldinger, Andy Winiarzyk, Frank Sturgis, Terry Nolan, John McAdams, Ulric Shannon, Vicky Wertz, Barbara LaMonica, Sherry Sullivan, Carl Oglesby, Peter Whimpey and several others I would still be scratching and searching for clues and direction.

Some gave me right on the money leads and some through the use of negative templates actually helped me even more by being deflective, disruptive, debilitating, misleading and obfuscating. Thanks for the memories.

And especially to my father who had more courage and guts than any one of a dozen of those armchair investigative quarterbacks all put together. And to my paternal grandfather who died of injuries received fighting the Russians during the Hungarian Revolution, to my mother who taught me how and why to hate and fight the Nazis and the Communists as well as the McCarthyites, and to my maternal grandfather who withheld key information and key components from the Nazis regarding how to manufacture the German version of the Polish Lugers made in the Polish munitions and bicycle factory he managed before the invasion of Poland, right up until the very end when they eliminated him after he was no longer needed. And thanks to my uncle Charles W. Yost and Ambassador Charles "Chip" Bohlen who spirited my mother and her sisters out of Poland while the German invasion was just starting. This one is for all of you.

[Helen Reyes]

No offence taken, John. My Pavlovian respone to anyone hinting I might be an agent is to assume they are, but I'm suspending that programmed response because of the need for understanding, cross-subcultural communications and because what you're saying is fascinating. Please carry on!

Two side points:

1. What you mean by Regime Change might be something different from what I understand as Regime Change, but I would say chimpanzees invented it and Machiaveli just repackaged it.

2. G. Edward Griffin in The Creature from Jekyll Island has different ideas about the "true identity" of Big Daddy Warbucks, which is neither here nor there, and Griffin makes historical mistakes in that book about other things.

Here's the excerpt for consideration, page 18, Introduction:

THE REAL DADDY WARBUCKS

Paul Moritz Warburg was a leading member of the investment banking firm of M.M. Warburg & Company of Hamburg, Germany, and Amsterdam, the Netherlands. He had come to the United States only nine years previously. Soon after arrival, however, and with funding provided mostly by the Rothschild group, he and his brother, Felix, had been able to buy partnerships in the New York investment banking firm of Kuhn, Loeb & Company, while continuing as partners in Warburg of Hamburg. Within twenty years, Paul would become one of the wealthiest men in America with an unchallenged domination over the country's railroad system.
At this distance in history, it is difficult to appreciate the importance of this man. But some understanding may be had from the fact that the legendary character, Daddy Warbucks, in the comic strip Little Orphan Annie, was a contemporary commentary on the presumed benevolence of Paul Warburg, and the almost magic ability to accomplish good through the power of his unlimited wealth.
A third brother, Max Warburg, was the financial adviser of the Kaiser and became Director of the Reichsbank in Germany. This was, of course, a central bank, and it was one of the cartel models used in the construction of the Federal Reserve System. The Reichsbank, incidentally, a few years later would create the massive hyperinflation that occurred in Germany, wiping out the middle class and the entire German economy as well.
Paul Warburg soon became well known on Wall Street as a persuasive advocate for a central bank in America. Three years before the Jekyll Island meeting, he had published several pamphlets. One was entitled Defects and Needs of Our Banking System, and the other was A Plan for A Modified Central Bank. These attracted wide attention in both financial and academic circles and set the intellectual climate for all future discussions regarding banking legislation. In these treatises, Warburg complained that the American monetary system was crippled by its dependency on gold and government bonds, both of which were in limited supply. What America needed, he argued, was an elastic money supply that could be expanded and contracted to accommodate the fluctuating needs of commerce. The solution, he said, was to follow the German example whereby banks could create currency solely on the basis of "commercial paper," which is banker language for I.O.U.s from corporations.
Warburg was tireless in his efforts. He was a featured speaker before scores of influential audiences and wrote a steady stream of published articles on the subject. In March of that year, for example, The New York Times published an eleven-part series written by Warburg explaining and expounding what he called the Reserve Bank of the United States.

OSS was definitely up to something in China, all the veterans of the Chinese stuff figure prominently later in CIA, but non sum dignus, et arrectis auribus.

[John Bevilaqua]

No offence taken, John. My Pavlovian respone to anyone hinting I might be an agent is to assume they are, but I'm suspending that programmed response because of the need for understanding, cross-subcultural communications and because what you're saying is fascinating. Please carry on!

Two side points:

1. What you mean by Regime Change might be something different from what I understand as Regime Change, but I would say chimpanzees invented it and Machiaveli just repackaged it.

2. G. Edward Griffin in The Creature from Jekyll Island has different ideas about the "true identity" of Big Daddy Warbucks, which is neither here nor there, and Griffin makes historical mistakes in that book about other things.

Here's the excerpt for consideration, page 18, Introduction:

THE REAL DADDY WARBUCKS

Paul Moritz Warburg was a leading member of the investment banking firm of M.M. Warburg & Company...

OSS was definitely up to something in China, all the veterans of the Chinese stuff figure prominently later in CIA, but non sum dignus, et auribus errectus.

Serious problems with the attempt by whomever at a Warburg connection as Big Daddy Warbucks.

1) Wickliffe P. Draper was physically the "spitting image" of the Big Daddy Warbucks cartoon character. Bald pate with sidebar hair only, wire-rimmed glasses, 6'5" tall, worked in Military Intel Ops in India (Punjab), big game hunter, war hawk and war profiteer, had a close friend named "Annie" who was orphaned in the Revolution, but was not "Little" but rather a "Giant" with reddish-yellow hair and a bevvy of German Shepards who went "Arf!, Arf! .. on and on and on.

2) Warburg was Jewish, and was a little dapper man with a handlebar moustache, no glasses and looked NOTHING like Big Daddy Warbucks, had no friends named "Annie" who was always surrounded by his German Shepard guard dogs, had no one at all like Punjab and never worked in Intel Ops in India. Warbucks had no visible indication of being anything but a WASP and an elitist. Warburg was a banker and Warbucks was a businessman who thrived on conflicts, clashes, wars and wheeling and dealing.

Other than that he is right on the money...

Vonsiatsky and Draper were in the national newspapers almost every month in the 1930's and were very well known world travelers, rabble rousers, movers and shakers and raconteurs and trouble makers. They were also close to the du Ponts who fought the Nye Committees and Alger Hiss who was on that committee which sought to limit war profiteering. Draper later did in Alger Hiss just like he did in Sacco and Vanzetti. Draper tried to use Smedley Butler as his personal M.P. detachment and enforcer also in the 1930's to protect his Boston/United Fruit interests and that of his friends using the J.P. Morgan account. He enlisted in the British Army in World War I then later switched to the U.S. armed forces. He just loved Big Game Hunting, and war games including going after FDR and JFK.

What the heck is that Latin phrase? Yo hablo espanol.

Signing off soon for the holidays. Ho, ho, ho and a bottle of rum!

Google William Nelson Cromwell and Regime Change. Or go to his Wikipedia page. Cromwell invented modern day Regime Change and used it to dominate the first half of the 20th Century, then it was taken over by Dulles, Draper, Donovan and all the Boys From Brazil and the Queen of Hearts, too from ManCand and Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll or Louis Carroll. "Off with his head!", she said. And so it was done. Ray-ban lenses and all. <grin>

[David Guyatt]

No offence taken, John. My Pavlovian respone to anyone hinting I might be an agent is to assume they are, but I'm suspending that programmed response because of the need for understanding, cross-subcultural communications and because what you're saying is fascinating. Please carry on!

Two side points:

1. What you mean by Regime Change might be something different from what I understand as Regime Change, but I would say chimpanzees invented it and Machiaveli just repackaged it.

2. G. Edward Griffin in The Creature from Jekyll Island has different ideas about the "true identity" of Big Daddy Warbucks, which is neither here nor there, and Griffin makes historical mistakes in that book about other things.

Here's the excerpt for consideration, page 18, Introduction:

THE REAL DADDY WARBUCKS

Paul Moritz Warburg was a leading member of the investment banking firm of M.M. Warburg & Company of Hamburg, Germany, and Amsterdam, the Netherlands. He had come to the United States only nine years previously. Soon after arrival, however, and with funding provided mostly by the Rothschild group, he and his brother, Felix, had been able to buy partnerships in the New York investment banking firm of Kuhn, Loeb & Company, while continuing as partners in Warburg of Hamburg. Within twenty years, Paul would become one of the wealthiest men in America with an unchallenged domination over the country's railroad system.
At this distance in history, it is difficult to appreciate the importance of this man. But some understanding may be had from the fact that the legendary character, Daddy Warbucks, in the comic strip Little Orphan Annie, was a contemporary commentary on the presumed benevolence of Paul Warburg, and the almost magic ability to accomplish good through the power of his unlimited wealth.
A third brother, Max Warburg, was the financial adviser of the Kaiser and became Director of the Reichsbank in Germany. This was, of course, a central bank, and it was one of the cartel models used in the construction of the Federal Reserve System. The Reichsbank, incidentally, a few years later would create the massive hyperinflation that occurred in Germany, wiping out the middle class and the entire German economy as well.
Paul Warburg soon became well known on Wall Street as a persuasive advocate for a central bank in America. Three years before the Jekyll Island meeting, he had published several pamphlets. One was entitled Defects and Needs of Our Banking System, and the other was A Plan for A Modified Central Bank. These attracted wide attention in both financial and academic circles and set the intellectual climate for all future discussions regarding banking legislation. In these treatises, Warburg complained that the American monetary system was crippled by its dependency on gold and government bonds, both of which were in limited supply. What America needed, he argued, was an elastic money supply that could be expanded and contracted to accommodate the fluctuating needs of commerce. The solution, he said, was to follow the German example whereby banks could create currency solely on the basis of "commercial paper," which is banker language for I.O.U.s from corporations.
Warburg was tireless in his efforts. He was a featured speaker before scores of influential audiences and wrote a steady stream of published articles on the subject. In March of that year, for example, The New York Times published an eleven-part series written by Warburg explaining and expounding what he called the Reserve Bank of the United States.

OSS was definitely up to something in China, all the veterans of the Chinese stuff figure prominently later in CIA, but non sum dignus, et arrectis auribus.

Speaking of Warburg's there is the curious little book published in 1933 by an author using the name of Sidney Warburg that went into considerable detail about how leading figures in the US financed Hitler's rise to power. The late Tony Sutton tackled the claims and counter-claims that the book was a forgery in his book "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler". The Chapter dealing with this can be read here by anyone interested. The whole book is available online here. It's a real corker and well worth taking the time to read.

[Helen Reyes]

yeah, Warburg is a poor physical match, but at least he has a moustachio. I only found a pic in the book of him without a tophat, maybe if he wore one he might resemble more closely.

[Jan Klimkowski]

John - do you believe Oswald was a Manchurian Candidate?

If so, what you understand by the term "Manchurian Candidate"?