Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[James H. Fetzer]

NOTICE OF TERMINATION OF FRIENDSHIP WITH JACK WHITE, WHO HAS FINALLY DISGUSTED ME

I cannot believe that someone I have admired in the past would stoop to such a sophomoric level by
lodging such a blatant ad hominem. Those who resort to arguments of this caliber have discredited
themselves massively. I denounce each and every one of them, including the author of the post Jack
has repeated her and the hack who posted it. I am completely disgusted and want nothing more to
do with them. Michael Hogan and Howard Platzman are honorable men. Those who resort to such
disgraceful tactics are not. Cease and desist, Jack White. You have forefeitted being taken seriously.
Please know that I want nothing more to do with you in any context at all. We are no longer friends.

[quote name='Jack White' post='190000' date='Apr 18 2010, 07:43 PM']
It seems that most researchers (wisely) do not want to become involved in the thread re JVB. For
some reason many of them seem to focus on emailing me to vent their feelings at a safe venue. So
far about a dozen have emailed me varying messages about JVB. Here is a typical EXCERPT from one
received just today (anonymous for obvious reasons):

[color="#000080"]"I have believed for years that sexual frustration lies at the root of JVB’s motives – that she is more to be pitied than deplored. The sad but indisputable fact is that she is now overweight and unattractive and was once rather attractive (amply endowed, as she has pointed out on occasion), showing much promise in her academic abilities which never came to fruition. She has lived a life peppered with disappointment, unable to get along with people for more than a few weeks. Every relationship – mostly with men -- eventually goes down the toilet."
[/color]

There are many other unsolicited emails. They are wise to not enter the public area of controversy. This
has been going on for ten years now, with new supporters taking up the torch when others become
disenchanted. How much longer will it go on?

Jack[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

Dean,

I have become convinced, based upon extensive contact, confirmed by Nigel Turner's segment, Ed Haslam's
research, and evaluating more that 1,200 posts on this thread, that the attacks on Judyth are shoddy and, in
almost every case, based upon flimsy proof and faulty arguments. Lifton, for example, rejects her because
she talked about Cancun at a time it did not exist. But Judyth was talking about Kankun, which did, where
I think it would have been impossible for Lifton to have discerned any phonetic difference between them. (I
have asked for a cassette copy of the conversation, which he has refused to provide. I can imagine quite a
number of reasons why he doesn't want me to hear it, but that is no basis for rejecting her as a phony.) In
a similar vein, John Armstrong rejected her when she told him that, on some occasions, she had passed as
Marina, because Marina was pregnant but Judyth was not. He did not allow her to explain what she meant.
Jack White has enumerated about a dozen complaints against her, none of which turned out to be justifiable.

Junkkiarinen is endlessly recyclying old material from the McAdams' site, where she and Viklund have been
exposed as collaborating to attack her. The fact that she has been so massively abused in other forums is
no excuse not to grant her a level playing field here. My role has not only been to post on her behalf but
also to serve as a buffer between her and some of her less scrupulous critics. I have had a huge volume
of contact with her, including hundreds and hundreds of emails and other forms of contact, including, of
course, YouTube interviews and blogs about her. I find Ed Haslam's work thorough, meticulous, and very
compelling in placing her within the context of cancer research involving David Ferrie, Dr. Mary Sherman,
and Alton Ochsner, who was the key figure behind it all. When you consider what Ed has explained in his
two books, most recently, DR. MARY'S MONKEY, I find it difficult to imagine how anyone could take such
strong negative stances toward her. Anyone who wants to understand her story should read Ed's book.

As for the comparison between my psy ops expert and this rubbish from Jack's anonymous source, if you
don't understand the difference between a venomous ad hominem attack such as Jack posted and serious
analytical reflections on what has been going on during the course of this thread, then I am at a loss as to
what to tell you. In response to your other post, I am convinced she is "the real deal" and that almost all
of the complaints about her are fabricated or exaggerated. For some reason, everyone here is allowed to
have their opinions about Judyth except for me! If Judyth really is not the person she claims to be, then I
cannot imagine why she is drawing so much attention. Surely this is not all for my benefit! I have done
enough research on Judyth to draw my own conclusions. I am probably more versed in scholarship than
anyone else on this forum. I believe in her and I cannot allow personal friendships to defeat my commit-
ment to the search for truth. I defend others when I think they are right and oppose them when I think
they are wrong. I have stood up for Jack and David on many occasions, but in this case, they are wrong.

Jim

[quote name='Dean Hagerman' post='190033' date='Apr 19 2010, 01:44 AM']
[quote name='Greg Burnham' post='190029' date='Apr 18 2010, 11:47 PM']
Jack,

In all due respect, my friend, IMO this is chicken shit. It was a cowardly act by the author of the message who was too uncertain of him or her self to claim responsibility for their position (if it can even be called that). It is a very low blow, not to Judyth mind you, but to yourself! Whoever the author is, you might consider the very real possibility that Judyth was not the target of the attack--you were. And, judging from Jim's reaction, it appears that they may have hit the bull's eye.

There is a "signature" to these things, my friend. You know me--and you know my meaning.

GO_SECURE

monk

[quote name='Jack White' post='190015' date='Apr 18 2010, 01:19 PM']It seems that most researchers (wisely) do not want to become involved in the thread re JVB. For some reason many of them seem to focus on emailing me to vent their feelings at a safe venue. So far about a dozen have emailed me varying messages about JVB. Here is a typical EXCERPT from one received just today (anonymous for obvious reasons):

[color="#000080"]"I have believed for years that sexual frustration lies at the root of JVB’s motives – that she is more to be pitied than deplored. The sad but indisputable fact is that she is now overweight and unattractive and was once rather attractive (amply endowed, as she has pointed out on occasion), showing much promise in her academic abilities which never came to fruition. She has lived a life peppered with disappointment, unable to get along with people for more than a few weeks. Every relationship – mostly with men -- eventually goes down the toilet."
[/color]

There are many other unsolicited emails. They are wise to not enter the public area of controversy. This
has been going on for ten years now, with new supporters taking up the torch when others become
disenchanted. How much longer will it go on?[/quote]
[/quote]


Greg

So its ok for Jim to post some silly Psy-Op garbage attacking Jack from an unkown person

Why is it ok for Jim to do that but not ok for Jack?

I dont understand
[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JIM RESPONDS TO JUNKKARINEN ABOUT ANOTHER FABRICATED MYSTERY

Here is the documentation showing that Barb has again been making up issues as
she goes along. I have never known anyone to be subjected to such abuse as has
Judyth on this and other forums. In any case, here is more support for her position.






[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='189070' date='Apr 7 2010, 05:34 AM'] JUDYTH: MEDEC-ZOA

In an e-mail to Dave Reitzes in November 2000, Judyth told
him:

Anyway, the letter i have from Walter Reed mentions file name
MEDEC-ZOA. I was ZOA and I was assigned to something called ZOE.

In her book, as a caption under the photo of the letter she received
from Dr. Jacobus at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, Judyth
writes:

The letter and notes I received from Walter Reed referred to a file
called 'Medec Zoa'.

As quoted in my post on Judyth's letter to President Kennedy (post#982), Judyth claimed that when she was whisked away to a room by scientists, military officers and others and signed loyalty oaths, she was told to write to both President Kennedy and Walter Reed. She did write to Walter Reed (no copy of that letter available) and Jacobus replied to her on 2 September 1960. Walter Reed Institute of Research, then and now, enthusiastically supported students engaged in science and research. The letter is difficult to read here ... perhaps Judyth will provide copies to Jim so that the entire letter can be seen ... and so that it can be photographed or scanned head on and with greater clarity. Judyth had written WR about her interest and experiments in protecting against injury to the patient during radiation treatment. Dr. Jacobus was sending her some needed chemicals separately, was very encouraging, and encouraged her to let them know how her experiment worked out.

Judyth has claimed that she made regular reports, and that she received several more notes and packages ... but never another letter. No other notes, aside from this letter, has been shown.

The jpg of the letter is what Judyth sent Martin to post as part of her evidence. As you can see, the letter is not complete, the bottom half of the front page is not included. In her book, the bottom half of the page is covered by the end of the Jacobus letter on the next or back page.



"MEDEC-ZOA" appears to the left of the "logo" under the letterhead. It
is in no way buddied up to Judyth's name.

I asked a couple of military types, one Air Force, one Army, about
that acronym and both told me the MEDEC would refer to the Command,
and the ZOA would refer to some office within that command. They were
exactly right.

This is not a "file" nor does "ZOA" designate Judyth. It is what the
Army calls an "office symbol" and is essentially an address.

In army lingo, the first 5 letters, in this case, MEDEC, designate the
command. MEDEC was the Medical Research and Development Command, it
was created in 1958 and existed until 1994 when the command name was
changed to MRMC, Medical Research and Materials Command. Today the
office symbol for Walter Reed Army Institute of Research is MCMR
[as of June 2008 when I initially wrote this].

The 3 letters after the hyphen, in this case "ZOA" refers to the the
place and department or office within that command. We know the letter
came from the office of the Chief of the Radiology Department.

The three letters that follow the current command, MCMR, are UWZ. Like
ZOA, those letters do not stand for anything ... they designate an
address within the command. The UW is common to all
offices/departments within WRAIR today. The third letter narrows it
down to which department or office, and if those 3 letters are
followed by a hyphen and then a number, it narrows it down even
further, even to a specific person.

MEDEC-ZOA was essentially the office or department address in Army
speak.

I spoke to Debra at WRAIR, she is the Assistant Director for Research
Marketing and Policy Development. She went to a couple of old timers
as well as to historical data on the previous command designations ...
and their "office symbols" of yore ... and then called me with the
information. My thanks to her.

MEDEC-ZOA is no mystery ... and no file or designation regarding
Judyth for any special or secret project.

Barb :-)[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH COMMENTS ON HOWARD'S 2001 POST REGARDING JUDYTH'S RECORD-KEEPING FOR LEE

NOTE: Howard Platzman has put it extremely well in his commentary about Paul Hoch: The evidence, when it is all laid out for you, is copious: This woman has lived a very unusual life, and no con artist could "insert herself" into Lee Oswald's life so neatly at so many points. When you consider the research Ed Haslam has done and published in DR. MARY'S MONKEY with the definitive evidence of Judyth's genius as a student of science and at research on cancer with the situation in New Orleans at the time, as he has explained it, I have a hard time appreciating why anyone would continue to doubt he truth of the core of her story in relation to Dr. Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, Lee Harvey Oswald, and Dr. Alton Ochsner. Everyone should be begin by reading Edward Haslam's through-going study.

Howard wrote this in 2001: 01/10/2001 12:19:59 PM Central Standard Time

This document is evidence we had given up hope of ever finding. It is well over a year and a half since I first heard about the missing piece part of the credit report. The crazy thing is that Paul Hoch, who found it, seems to think it hurts her case. Don't you think she'd have pulled this out of her hat to keep from losing CBS...FOUR SEPARATE TIMES?!

This claim, one among many, was one she had no reason to make and every reason not to (the intitials that aren't hers, e.g.). We have agonized over the seeming disappearance of this report. And now that it has been found, it is being presented as something she was saving to impress you all with at the right time. Well, the "right time" has come and gone.

I once had a great deal of respect for Paul Hoch, but he has refused to respond to personal e-mails in which I, quite calmly, I believe, point out the irrationality of his theories.

When countered, by J or Martin, he takes a step back. He seems no less biased than McAdams, with his last stated position being that she may have somehow "absorbed" the document, but she couldn't have written it. Yikes! From what position did she do so?

He has refrained from calling her a liar, so I assume this at least puts her at Reily's. But he has speculated that she saw it at the Archives, which, for J, would be tantamount to calling her a liar. It's silly to argue that she had a false memory of something she recently researched, so I guess it's "liar" by default.

Now, with this thing in front of me, I can see why J claims she had a devil of a time typing it. The typed portion had to be aligned with the preprinted subject line.

J spoke of boxes and lines: well here they are.



And she spoke of two sections (maybe two pages): well, here is one page with two separate sections



Note two other rather interesting things [about the copies he was viewing]:

1 - There is no company name on it, at least that I can see on my screen

[Note: we finally got a copy where you can see the company name, in 2004 JVB]

2 - The typed-in word "affect" in "savings and affects" is MISSPELLED!

So a man who does several of these reports a day (according to Hoch), who is a professional, who I would guess is likely to write this rather common phrase over and over again in the natural course of his duties, a man who surely has at least seen it before in text written by others (reports by other investigators, how-to manuals, client files, etc.), cannot even spell it correctly?! Is there no room for suspicion here? By contrast, this is (pardon me, J) just the sort of spelling mistake J makes (recently, "publically" for "publicly").

Note by JVB: Yes, I'm a lousy typist....Note that Desmare was the Supervisor over the other investigators. As if a supervisor (not mentioned as such except in one report) would do an investigation on a mere maintenance man rather than handing it to one of his workers.

But I did not have initials for any of them -- just for Mr. Desmare -- HCD -- as he had given me his card when Monaghan brought me over to Reail Credit's office.

I did not have access to Personnel files over at Reily's, for we were working in the small Standard Coffee Office.

NOTE WELL: For decades researchers stated Lee worked at "Reily Coffee Company," and I have been told that nobody --until I spoke out in 1999-2000 about our week together at Standard -- nobody mentioned that Lee had worked for a week a Standard. Perhaps because we managed to get all his checks issued from Reily.

We laundered his record, people, with the Reily check, and this report is a perfect example of our further laundering.

It says Lee came directly from the Marines to New Orleans, etc. More below, but back to Howard's post:==JVB==

3 - Even if J "researched" her way to this -- while forgetting to pull it out of her head when she needed it most -- what does a document that says Oswald had this kind of money (probably $16,000 or so in today's dollars)[$22,000 today!] tell us about him.

Surely it tells us he was not the pauper the WC described.

Yet the now "lone-nutter," Paul Hoch, doesn't even think this worth a mention.

What does this document tell him about LHO? I don't know, because he doesn't respond to me.

We should be celebrating the discovery of this report -- even our seasoned professional investigator gave us no hope of finding it -- not bemoaning its existence.[/b]

Howard

JUDYTH COMMENTS:

==Note: this report was buried a few places in official records. But we certainly couldn't find it.==

After Howard wrote the above, Hoch tried to pooh-pooh the report as a boiler-plate, something cranked out because the investigator was in a hurry. In other words, that Retail Credit cheated Reily and just pretended to write a background report.

A single telephone call to check if Lee had been in the Marines would have exposed his undesirable discharge and automatic disqualification as a Reily employee.

This is precisely why I was asked to prepare this background check.

My inexperience notwithstanding, that Lee and I having fun with his assets and possessions (Lee said, "Let's make me a successful Capitalist pig!") shows all over the place, but it didn't matter.

The goal was to transfer Lee (and me) after ONE week at Standard Coffee, to Reily's, to avoid Personnel there requesting a background report on Lee at the outset.

Note that we rigged it so ALL of Lee's CHECKS came from REILY's, even though it clearly states that Lee worked for a week a Standard. BTW, I have a check stub showing I worked at Sandard hat same week a Standard with Lee. It is attached.

The report iself says "Lee Harvey Oswald is employed as a Mantenance Man for the Standard Coffee Company and has been engaged in this occupation for the pas one week..."

I received secretarial training in that same week, and also laundered Lee's background report.

Then we simply walked it across the street to Reily's. Reily would not repeat a 'passed' background check from its own subcompany --it was an expense to avoid -- and Personnel scarcely looked at it.

MY background report was made IN MY PRESENCE at Retail Credit while Monaghan and I visited there.

Why did they cooperate to let us have blank forms, so I could create this?

Reily was building a new factory and was going to be hiring oodles of new workers, each of whom would need a background report. Mr. Desmare would have hopped around the block on one foot to please Monaghan, and he certainly couldn't say 'no' to my obtaining some blank forms "to write examples for the secretary training manual." And so we got the blank forms.==

Here is the next round between Paul Hoch, etc. and Dr. Howard Platzman. Note that McAdams & Co did not bring up the Retail Credit Character-Financial Report over at the Education Forum.

Here's why:

From: Howpl (howpl@aol.com)
Subject: Hoch is Back: Team Judyth Responds
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Date: 2003-08-25 21:09:32 PST

Well, not Team Judyth; just me. I promise to haunt this site as long as Paul Hoch is publishing here. Since he has for some reason decided to resurrect the famed "Hoch-Shinley Research," as MacAdams so pompously calls it, I have no choice.

This was a man I admired. [He has since revealed other aspects of his Lone Nut belief system --JVB]

Following are Paul Hoch's comments on the Reily background report and my annotations following two dashes (--) None of what appears below represents anyone but me. I have not "cleared it" with Judyth or Martin. Hoch's arguments in the past have not stood up to reason. The resumption of debate over this report actually finds him strengthening the case FOR Judyth.

See if you don't agree.

Subject: FBI interview with the author of Judyth's credit report
In a thread entitled "Problems with the "Judyth" story -- a
summary," John wrote:

"4. The Retail Credit fib -- Judyth claims to have written a somewhat bizarre, and highly inaccurate, background report on Lee. But the FBI interviewed the person who actually wrote and initialed it." [according to THEM! -- read on! JVB]

-- Hoch acknowleges that the report on Lee is "somewhat bizarre and highly inaccurate." We're off to a promising start.

Martin responded (on December 14):

"The person they interviewed didn't seem able to tell them much of anything except that his initials were on the report. The report doesn't resemble anything that a real background check would have produced. Paul Hoch never offered any explanation for those problems.

"In fact, Henry Coe Desmare "said he had conducted the investigation concerning OSWALD."

-- That's what he said initially, but the story changes. See below.

HOCH: He also remembered that the name of the aunt he had interviewed "was something like MUREL" (it was Lillian Murrett) and that she lived on French Street. Indeed, Desmare was identified because his initials are on the report.

-- When Judyth first mentioned the report about four years ago, she told me the initials of someone else, she guessed a secretary, were on it. [JVB: IT HAD BEEN 35 YEARS. It was Desmare, not a secretary...then I remembered I had been given Desmare's card....]

Evidently the report turned up in an FBI check of various businesses which might be expected to have a record of Oswald.

On November 23, FBI SA James Peck interviewed Vincent Imbornone, a clerk at the Retail Credit Company on Canal Street, who "furnished a carbon copy of a Retail Credit Company report, form 1630 dated May 16, 1963....

He advised that the report furnished bore the initials 'HCD' and explained that the person writing this report for his company was HENRY COE DESMARE.... He added that this individual was a supervisor for the Retail Credit Company."

Later that day, Henry Coe Desmare was interviewed by SA's Theodore Viater and Ronald Hoverson. He identified himself as "the [sic] investigator for the Retail Credit Company, New Orleans."

"After viewing a copy of a report dated May 16, 1963, concerning LEE HARVEY OSWALD, 757 French Street, New Orleans,

-- Not Oswald's address. He was no longer living with his uncle and aunt.

HOCH: ....he said he had conducted the investigation concerning OSWALD under Account No. 6605, which is the number for Standard Coffee Company, New Orleans."

References: NARA Record Number 157-10003-10115 (Imbornone) and 157-10003-10114 (Desmare); these items are also CD 75, pp. 440 and 438-439 respectively, published in CE 1141 (22 WCH 145-146); pointed out to me by Jerry Shinley.

The Monaghan interview referred to earlier, which quotes the credit report but does not indicate that it came from an outside firm, is CD 75, p. 30-32 (CE 1894).

[JVB: Of course, Monaghan didn't refer to Standard! That would have led to ME and well as LEE, hired same day, transferred to Reily the same day, Monaghan's complicity, and much, much more. Better to never mention he word "Standard"--and it worked. Nobody mentioned "Standard" that we know of, until I spoke out about it early in 1999.]

-- Judyth also told me early on that she composed the report during a week of training, off-site. It would make perfect sense for training in this activity to be conducted at a company engaged in this activity.

HOCH: There is no question that Desmare's report was superficial.

-- You already said "somewhat bizarre and highly inaccurate." "Superficial" waters down the meaning, don't you think? It includes nothing about Oswald's stay in Russia; "U.S. Marines" is shown as his previous address and employment.

-- Quite an oversight. Defecting to Russia was not exactly the national pastime. You'd think patriotic Americans, like Reily (who was heavily involved in INCA) and Judyth's own boss, Monaghan (ex-FBI), would want to be sure that they had not hired such a person. This was not an era that took background reports lightly.

-- Interestingly, another FBI exhibit reveals that Garrison considered indicting Reily as an accessory in the assassination. He wasn't, of course. But Reily and Monaghan knew who Lee Oswald really was. They needed a bland report for the files, so Lee's immediate supervisors [and the Personnel office -JVB] would be kept in the dark. Was a pro forma report typical of the work of the Retail Credit Company when one of their regular customers hired a maintenance man? That wouldn't surprise me.

-- This refers to the report questions. No reason for the questions to be "highly inaccurate" -- only the answers.

In my correspondence with Judyth, I said that the apparent author "admitted [to interviewing agents] that he could not explain some of the discrepancies they pointed out."

-- So Judyth's claim led to the unearthing of this virtually unknown piece of evidence. And instead of getting credit for drawing our attention to EVIDENCE THAT BLOWS AWAY THE WARREN COMMISSION'S ACCOUNT OF LEE'S FINANCES, she is accused of concocting the wild claim that she wrote it, as part of her larger concoction. Then she keeps her possession of it a secret from everyone, including Joe, Martin, and me since early 1999. [1998 corr. by JVB to 1999]

If she never planned to produce it, there was no use in holding onto it. And if she did plan to produce it, she somehow forgot to do so over the course of several rounds of dithering with CBS, in manuscripts sent to publishers, and in evidence shown to researchers who visited her.

HOCH: But the interviewing agents were apparently not interested in the accuracy or completeness of the background information Desmare recorded about Oswald. They were pursuing a more serious matter - apparent evidence of Oswald associates.

The problems with that apparent evidence are not relevant to claims about the authorship of the report, I believe,

-- Not relevant?! What sort of "belief" makes wildly inaccurate reports of 2-year "associates" in New Orleans irrelevant? Especially since he just moved back to New Orleans and he was in Russia 1 ½ to 2 years ago but here are the details.

The copy of the form given to the FBI by William Monaghan indicates that just one person was interviewed by Desmare. The first question on the form is "How long known to you and informants?" In the space for the answer is the typed information "1 1/2 yrs-2y" and "intv Aunt".

-- His aunt knew LHO for only 2 years?! Say again?

-- Even if this were true, he only lived with them for a few weeks in April of 1963.

The natural reading of this information is that Desmare interviewed one person, Oswald's aunt, and that she said that she had known Oswald for one and a half or two years.

-- Yes. [JVB: consider this absurdity: the Murrets had known Lee all his life!]

However, the carbon copy of the form which was retained in Retail Credit Company files bears the notation "intv Aunt and two personal associate_ of subject." ["_" is the FBI's convention for "sic".] As spelled out in the FBI FD-302, when Imbornone provided the form and identified the author he stated that this notation "apparently meant that the individual who conducted the investigation relative to this report and wrote this report had interviewed an aunt of LEE HARVEY OSWALD as well as two personal associates of OSWALD in New Orleans."

-- Yes, yes.

Consequently, Desmare was visited at home by two FBI agents. The presence of a second agent at an interview is often a sign of the seriousness of the matter.

My hypothesis is that Desmare interviewed only one informant, and sent a report reflecting that to Standard Coffee, but that in the file copy he padded his workload by adding the notation about interviewing two personal associates.

-- This would be hilarious if not for the fact that this is an important piece of evidence. What two associates? Do companies that compose such reports not retain somewhere the names and addresses of the people they interview? In any case, the report includes something the loan-nutter, Hoch, has no way to account for. It says, among the other bizarre and inaccurate things, that Oswald had the 2003 equivalent of $17,000 in "personal effects and savings."

Add the misspelling of "affects" - a term of art one would think a senior investigator would have long ago learned how to spell correctly ? and things get really fishy. This is rank speculation. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should believe this, and every reason why, if this was a common practice, the firm would be out of business rather quickly

Hoch: Perhaps he had a quota of interviews to meet. Or perhaps the notation was added by someone else, based on a misunderstanding.

-- "Perhaps" anything, Paul.

Judyth's story at least has the advantage of being simple and comprehensible. She wrote a report for the files that did not include any unsavory elements and made up essentially bland material that sounds nothing like the Lee Oswald we know. She did this as a part of an attempt to establish Lee's cover so none of his direct supervisors would raise an eyebrow.

First, it seems, Desmare confirmed the clerk's reading of the notation: "He stated that the notation at the top of the report 'intv Aunt and two personal associate_ of subject' made reference to the fact that he had interviewed OSWALD's aunt in addition to two personal associates.

Digging himself deeper into a hole, he told the FBI agents that "Under Item No. 1 'informants', the notation '1 1/2 yrs-2y' meant the two associates he interviewed knew OSWALD for 1 1/2 years and two years respectively."

The trouble with this explanation is that it means there is no information in the report to indicate how long the third informant, Oswald's aunt, had known him.

-- No, Paul, "the trouble with this explanation" is that, so far, there are two other associates unnamed and unaccounted for. Unless he gave Ferrie and Banister as references. (Joke.)

Again, I think that the natural interpretation is that she said "one and a half to two years" and that no other associates were actually interviewed.

-- Hold it. A moment ago, you said "Desmare confirmed the clerk's reading of the notation...[which implied] he had interviewed OSWALD's aunt in addition to two personal associates." That is the "natural reading of this information."m The meaning as set forth in your hypothesis is pure, unadulterated speculation.
　
Desmare was unable to explain the supposed two other interviews to the FBI agents.

"He said he had no recollection concerning the identities of the
associates but that the aunt's name was something like MUREL and lived on French Street, New Orleans."

[JVB: But the FBI agents stated that BEFORE Desmare said this, he had been SHOWN he credit report. Obviously, having read it, he was then able to somewhat recall 'Murret' as "Murel'--they cheated, and he STILL didn't get it right.]

"DESMARE said the requesting company, in this case Standard Coffee Company, sends a card listing the names of references and associates which he assumed were taken from application forms.

-- Who has possession of this card? Matt? Debra? Jerry? Where are the application forms? Show us any piece of evidence with names that Lee could have submitted as references and we will at least have the basis for a discussion. As it stands, we only have a bizarre claim that Lee knew his aunt for only two years and a senior officer at a credit check agency is willing to confess to gross incompetence. Was Reily not a good client?

It was his opinion that the names of the associates he interviewed were probably on the application in the files of Standard Coffee Company."

The agents pointed out that, in addition to John Murrett on French Street, the associates listed on the application were both said to be "on active duty with the U. S. Marines."

-- Which would have made them hard to interview unless they were stationed in or around New Orleans. Do you have any idea who these former Marine Corps buddies might be? Kerry Thornley was in New Orleans that summer, but not on active duty. The challenge to your hypothesis now grows even stronger, as the FBI has now given a description of how these two people were related to Lee. Care to further speculate on how the FBI came up with its information?

"DESMARE said the names of the Marines [Robert Hidell, J. Evans] were not familiar, and he could not recall whether he interviewed them or someone else in the neighborhood of 757 French Street."

The agents recognized that Desmare did not have a logical explanation:

"DESMARE was reminded that OSWALD had not lived at that address but used it as a mailing address and had used it beginning in May, 1963. DESMARE was of the opinion he may have contacted the personal associates of OSWALD in the neighborhood, but it was pointed out to him that they were supposed to have known OSWALD for 1 1/2 and two years respectively and that he had not lived in the neighborhood."

Desmare then gave up:

-- But not Hoch --

"DESMARE said he was unable to explain this other than to say that he must have interviewed someone at some place or he would not have reported it."

-- EXACTLY WHAT YOU WOULD SAY IF THE ONLY EVIDENCE YOU DID THE INVESTIGATION IS THE FBI'S ASSERTION THAT YOU DID. THE MAN CAN'T BE ANY CLEARER: HE REMEMBERS NOTHING. INDEED, HE MIGHT HAVE DENIED WRITING IT IF THE FBI DIDN'T SAY IT POSSESSED A REPORT WITH HIS INITIALS ON IT. DOES IT ALL COME DOWN TO THIS?!

YES, IF YOU BELIEVE HOCH'S ONLY WITNESS.

[McA]There is no indication in this FD-302 that the agents recognized another possibility, which would mean that there were no unidentified Oswald associates: that Desmare had padded his count of informants After all, the FBI agents never padded their reporting of sources.

-- He lived in New Orleans before. He knew his aunt for more than two years. So that means he "padded" his count from ZERO to three. That's not padding. That's making up out of whole cloth.

[McA] For the benefit of those who can work their way out of any evidentiary corner, and will come up with some scenario explaining how it was really Judyth, not Henry Desmare, who wrote this report:

-- You just made her testimony more credible, not less. I don't know why you remained fixated on this dead horse when she offers a highly detailed story -- which has not been even been released to the general public yet!

And you're not doing decently with the few pieces you have. Your hypothesis requires a highly dishonest investigator (if he lied back then about interviewing these people, whoever they are, why should we trust him now?). And it depends on a witness sabotaging the chance of a lifetime (60 Minutes) because she couldn't produce this document during the course of a 14-month saga with them.

-- Let me repeat the question I have asked you and Jerry before. Each time, you simply ignored it. WHY, IF 60 MINUTES WAS SO DESPERATE FOR HARD EVIDENCE, WOULD JUDYTH KEEP THIS DOCUMENT SECRET FROM THEM? They already heard about the initials.

-- Moreover, Judyth has from the beginning explained to me how much trouble she had "lining up" the answers on her typewriters (you older folks remember them, right?). When pressed by Martin and me to describe the document, she spoke of boxes and lines and carbons. When we finally saw it -- produced by the hostile Debra Conway, I believe, I could see exactly why she had so much trouble typing it -- compounding the fact, known all too well by her e-mail correspondents, that she is a lousy typist.

-- Another item that argues in her favor: her obstinacy when she could help herself by lying. Yours is not an uncommon experience, Paul. An "expert" on one part of the story, or one figure in the story, latches onto it and "catches" her in what they regard as an untruth. Knowing full well that she could plead "false or adulterated memory" and shake loose from criticism, she resists this course and insists, with more vehemence that before, that she is telling the truth.

Not always -- Martin and I and others have pressed her into uncertainty on some points -- but sometimes. For instance, she was interviewed by an editor of a major news journal [the Posnerite, Brian Duffy, a powerfl man who wrote a centerfold huge article on CASE CLOSED for US News & World Report, praising Posner!]

He pressed her for the exact date she received a piece of information, over and over again, in an obsessive manner that seemed a waste of everyone's limited time. The simple fact is, she could have just given a date amd NO ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE WISER. IN THIS CASE, AT LEAST, ONLY SHE WOULD KNOW IF SHE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH OR FABRICATING JUST TO GET THIS ANNOYING FELLOW OUT OF HER FACE. Still, she claimed she couldn't peg a date and refused to.

Similarly, when confronted with your arguments, she could have asked long ago for a pardon on the grounds of false memory; she is only human, as you point out, So you've provided a ready means of escape, but she still refuses. Have we grown so used to opportunism that we can no longer recognize heroism when we see it?

-- Finally, there is so much else in her story of far greater importance, and so much more evidence that she and Lee led synchronized lives for over four months in the spring and summer of 1963.

The Platzman Ratio Test is conclusive: this story has far too details that check out, details you can only get by searching corners of the literature few of us have ever visited. For many reasons, including interviews with family members who lived with and near her, I believe her story was not researched and that it is, as she told me from the outset, complicated but logical.

The evidence, when it is all laid out for you, is copious: This woman has lived a very unusual life, and no con artist could "insert herself" into Lee Oswald's life so neatly at so many points.

Not just insert herself, but allow us to understand him better -- through her relationship with him and his relationship to her project. The revival of the background report as a point of attack is, like the Great Cancun Crisis, just so much silliness.

Some of you may be wondering why I'm posting again after previous "hit and runs." The answer is I'm extremely angry and probably not acting in my own best interests.

It's just that there is so much pseudo-scholarship emanating from Judyth's detractors that I can't resist any longer.

Next on the chopping block: the Hoch Ratio Test, about on the same level of logical soundness as the Lifton Insertion Theory.

Howard Platzman

[James H. Fetzer]

Dean,

You say to me, "I am very open and will read or listen to anything you have to say Jim", yet from the answers to my questions, it does not appear to me that you are open or willing to read or listen to my suggestions. At least five of your answers below were "No", where several others also seem to fit. You appear to be taking your cues from Junkkarinen and Viklund, whom I regard as completely unreliable. Jack and Barb may be new BFFs, but it baffles me as to why you say you are listening to me or will read what I suggest when you are not. How many times do I have to recommend reading Ed Haslam, DR. MARY'S MONKEY? I have had extensive dealings with Judyth and I assure you she is not a fake. She was in New Orleans, she knew Lee Oswald, and she worked with David Ferrie and Mary Sherman. I cannot understand why you think you can tell who is or is not a phony without doing any research. I can tell you why I am skeptical of James Files, but I doubt that you have any good reasons to be skeptical of Judyth. The persons you are listening to and following are Junkkarinen and Viklund. And why in the world would you think that you know more about Judyth than I when I have had extensive contact with her and you have not? You don't seem to be thinking for yourself.

Jim

QUOTE (Dean Hagerman @ Apr 19 2010, 01:40 AM)
My answers in Bold

QUOTE (James H. Fetzer @ Apr 19 2010, 12:54 AM)
Dean,

If I were not convinced she is genuine, I would not be here defending her.
More than one of your posts has bothered me. I ask the following questions:

(1) Have you ever actually met or spoken with Judyth Vary Baker?

No, I have through Email from you asked her a question and got a reply, I would talk to Judyth, but as I told you Jim I do not want to talk to a woman I do not know about personal issues that are sensitive, I will leave it at that you know what im talking about. If Judyth is willing to talk to me I am willing to read and reply to her

(2) Have you ever watched Nigel Turner's "The Love Affair"?

I have watched it 10+ times, I love TMWKK and "The Love Affair" is my least favorite segment, followed very closly by French assassins

(3) Have you read MARY, FERRIE, AND THE MONEY VIRUS?

No

(4) Have you read Ed Haslam's DR. MARY'S MONKEY?

No

(5) Have you read my blog about Judyth Vary Baker?

Yes

(6) Have you listened to my 1-hour Haslem interview?

No

(7) Have you read my blog about DR. MARY'S MONKEY?

No

(8) Have you listened to Ed's 4-hour C2C interview?

No

(9) Are your opinions actually based upon research?

I have not researched any of Judyth's claims myself, however I have looked at alot of Barbs research on Judyth and what Barb has shown me is enough, I believe her research alone shuts down Judyth IMO

(10) What is the value of opinions not based on research?

I would say pretty high because most of us researchers have been around long enough to spot fakes, I dont need hard research to say that the stories Judyth Baker and James Files tell are false.

[quote name='Dean Hagerman' post='190127' date='Apr 19 2010, 05:47 PM']
Jim my mind has been changed 100s of times on assassination issues and theories

Please tell me what this new relevant evidence is, because all I have seen in this thread from Judyth is old news that has been debunked or is just not to be believed

I am very open and will read or listen to anything you have to say Jim

[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='190118' date='Apr 19 2010, 04:59 PM']
Well, Dean, God knows I wouldn't want your mind to be changed by anything like new relevant evidence! What is this forum coming to?

Click to flip through ME &LEE: http://www.trineday.com/paypal_store/produ...12-flip-320.gif

For more on ME & LEE, see http://www.trineday.com/paypal_store/produ...+Lee/index.html

[quote name='Dean Hagerman' post='190102' date='Apr 19 2010, 03:44 PM']
Well Michael thanks for the offer but you know as well as I do that you will be keeping your extra copy of H&L

Unless Dr Mary's Monkey contains pictures of Judyth and LHO embracing each other Im positive it will not change my mind

I want to read it to try and see were Jim is coming from

[quote name='Michael Hogan' post='190085' date='Apr 19 2010, 01:25 PM']
[quote name='Dean Hagerman' post='190051' date='Apr 18 2010, 11:54 PM']
.....The reason I have not replied about any of the posts about Armstrong is because I have not read his book. I am very upset with myself for not buying it when it came out, and my wife will not let me spend the $75.00-100.00 to buy the book. So I can not reply to anything that has to do with "Harvey and Lee" That would be very stupid on my part with out having read the book first

I will purchase Dr Mary's Monkey per your suggestion and read it (as it is much less then H&L)

I will report back with my thoughts on it

The bottom line is that I hate seeing you lose two friends over Judyth, aside from all the other stuff, that is what im really trying to say Jim[/quote]
Dean, if you change your mind about Judyth Baker and come to believe that she and Lee Oswald were
lovers, after reading Dr. Mary's Monkey, I'll be glad to give you my extra copy of Harvey & Lee.

Ed Haslam leaves no doubt that he believes in Judyth Baker as a person, as he puts it. But the actual
evidence he gives in his book for her love relationship with LHO is minimal, certainly nothing that
hasn't already appeared in this thread.

In Dr Mary's Monkey, Haslam urges the readers to make up their own minds. He refers them
to Baker's two volume book, Lee Harvey Oswald. He now admits this account is flawed.

Keep in mind that, according to Judyth Baker, she made the decision not to tell Haslam
that her book was unauthorized by her and contained errors. She would have told him if
she'd had any idea he was writing a book. Yet, according to Haslam, she "corrected and corroborated"
her story that ultimately appeared in his book.

It's these types of accounts that give me a vague unease about the whole thing.

At any rate, Ed Haslam has posted twice on this thread. The way I read it, he is asking members to wait
until Judyth Baker's new book comes out to make up their minds. He concedes there are shortcomings in
her previous accounts. Again, I have no doubt that Haslam believes she had a love affair with Oswald.
He told Jim Marrs in 2003 that this belief stems more from his belief in her as a person than it does
from actual evidence. If you get the chance, listen to that interview on YouTube, beginning at about the
forty-three minute mark.

In my opinion, Haslam has always been more interested in Judyth Baker's role in cancer research than
he has been with her alleged love relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald.

[quote name='Edward Haslam' post='185372' date='Mar 2 2010, 12:48 AM']Dear Forum Members,

Next, I can't help but think that this discussion of Judyth Vary Baker will be more productive once the members have read her soon-to-be-released book ME AND LEE, which will be her official autobiographical portrait of how her quest to find a cure for cancer lead her to work as a secretary at the Reily Coffee Company in New Orleans in the summer of 1963 under the direction of an ex-FBI agent and at the exact same time that Lee Oswald worked there. Trine Day Press has put a great deal of effort into making sure that the documents are well presented and that her story is properly edited for a thoughtful read by those who really want to hear her tale. Like many, I wish such a book had been available many years earlier. Unfortunately, it was not.

I do hope that this forum's members, which are among the best informed JFK assassination researchers engaged in public debate, will read this important book with an open mind. And I look forward to their discussion about it, once they do.

Until then, all involved should realize that what is being discussed here is based primarily upon an incomplete recounting of her story and illuminated by a constellation of malignant perceptions which emerged over years of inadequate, and occasionally inappropriate, representations. What you will read is the personal story of a witness to an important, albeit infamous, chapter of our history - one which deserves a fair hearing, a full review of the evidence, and the benefit of solid analysis. Once that happens, I look forward to reading your thoughts about it.

My Best to all,

Ed Haslam
author of DR. MARY'S MONKEY[/quote]

[quote name='Edward Haslam' post='185549' date='Mar 3 2010, 09:55 AM']Jack,

Thanks for your questions. I have great admiration for the work that you have done over the years. I will say that I am confident that if you read ME AND LEE with the same "close scrutiny" that you have used to study all those photos, then you will come to reasonable answers... whatever they may be. And I will be interested to hear your thought about them when you do.

From my own experience, I will say that, despite the considerable contact that I had with Judyth since Nov. 2000 and all of the other previous attempts by others to recount her tale, I did not understand "the flow" of her story. While I did think that certain "landmarks" grounded her story (such as the W2 form from Reily Coffee and her time at Roswell Park Cancer Institute), there was still a forest of unanswered questions for me. I found much of her tale "disconnected" and her retelling of it "confusing," particularly on important issues like how she became involved with people like Dr. Alton Ochsner and the erratic path of her college career. I queried Judyth relentlessly about these issues, the gaps in the story, and many other issues. There were many tense moments during this process, and she became frustrated with me at times. But I finally realized this was because there were things that she was reluctant to discuss, some for personal reasons. This process took more time than I anticipated, but eventually what I found was that the key to understanding her New Orleans activities lies in the years before she ever arrived in New Orleans and before she ever met Lee Oswald. I finally realized that understanding what made young "Judy Vary" tick was as important as anything we have heard to date about her romance with Lee Oswald. She was the resource that they needed to create the bio-weapon secretly, and there is nothing glorious or glamorous about killing baby mice, amputating their tumors and grinding them up in a blender. In fact, she became disgusted with what she was doing and realized that she had been lead down the path of evil by those she trusted. In the final analysis, I consider Judyth "a witness," not "a researcher," and I think that her story must be understood in that light. But the questions remain: What insights can we gain from the recollections of this witness? And do they help us understand what happened in Dallas?

[size=12] Overall, I will say that my view of her Judyth shifted as I read ME AND LEE. The portrait is paints of her is not particularly flattering, but it rings true. And it is a better grounded story than I expected to find. One that makes far more sense than anything I had heard from earlier versions. One whose pieces fit together better than I had expected. One that I hope that you (and the others seriously concerned about this subject) will read with an open mind.
[/size]
[size=12] My Best,
[/size]
[size=12] Ed Haslam
[/size][/quote]

[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JIM REPLIES TO DOUG WELDON ABOUT HIS ABSURD TAKE ON JUDYTH VARY BAKER

This appears to be the voice of a guilty conscience from someone who has not been paying attention. It
has only recently dawned upon me that Doug Weldon has a certain streak of arrogance about him. He is
among those whose work I have admired in the past--where I have defended him many times, just as I
have Jack and Lifton--but who somehow wants to do it his own way, which of course is also fine with me.

When I read what Jack had posted, it upset me tremendously, and I called David Lifton to ask if he had
been the author of that post. David assured me that he had not. In light of this (to my mind, ridiculous)
post by Doug Weldon, I now surmise that it was he who wrote to Jack, as I imagine he had done several
times. He thinks I was wrong to condemn Jack for posting his cruel post, and he wants to make amends.

He can correct me if I am wrong, but that appears to be his motivation. I am profoundly disappointed that
this man would marshall so much effort to publish such rubbish. If anything has become clear during the
course of this thread, it is that Judyth was where she claimed to have been associating with exactly those
she identified and doing precisely what she always claimed to have been doing. That much is utterly clear.

She was a brilliant, young, talented and idealistic woman who thought she might make a difference in the
battle against cancer. She was recruited by Alton Ochsner to come to New Orleans with the promise of a
fellowship and early admission to medical school. She worked with Mary Sherman and David Ferrie on one
of the most covert medical research projects in American history. And she was protected by Lee H. Oswald!

Doug Weldon has such vast belief in his powers of observation and reasoning that he does not understand
that this woman's entire life was lived out in about six-month's time. She was obsessive-compulsive about
every detail of her existence in New Orleans and absorbed what was happening around her like a sponge.
She kept records and documents and receipts and knows the details of that entire interval of her existence.

And that is because IT WAS HER ENTIRE LIFE. I am obsessive-compulsive myself. Ask my wife. I kept every
cancelled check I had ever written until I was around 60 years of age. Judyth, I have observed to myself and
perhaps occasionally on this thread, is smarter than anyone else here--including me! Doug has never had an
encounter with someone like her. He didn't believe her story. And now he is here feebly trying to explain why.

Feeling guilty because I broke off with Jack for posting a rubbish attack that should have been beneath them
both, Weldon has come here to display (what he takes to be) his vast sophistication and powers of reasoning
by making claims that might be true in most cases but do not apply to Judyth. He even disregards Ed Haslam's
astonishing research, which provides the framework within which Judyth's stunning story has to be understood.

There is more fakery and fraud in this single post from Doug Weldon than in the hundreds of posts that I have
exchanged with Judyth. Why anyone would think that I would allow myself to be taken in if she were a fraud
is beyond me. Am I not supposed to grasp that my reputation and credibility is on the line? Am I not able to
see what is so clear to Jack and to Doug and to others here who are not convinced by what she has to say?

The extent of the ops against Judyt boggle the mind if she actually were a fraud. The fact is that Doug Weldon
has posted this even after Howard Platzman has made some of the most discerning observations of them all:

(1) How well the totality of her testimony and documents explains mysteries that haunt the case better than any other extant story. For one of many instances, her explanation of the Clinton-Jackson witnesses is far more believable than any that has been offered elsewhere, even by Joan Mellen who brags that this is her expertise yet delivers a story that is ultimately incoherent.

(2) How well it predicts future finds and generates productive leads. In fact, her story of Clinton-Jackson "predicted" 60 Minutes' finding of an FBI report that Garrison was about to indict Alton Ochsner. Though king of INCA, his name has not come up in connection with any conspiracy to kill anyone. In fact, he was conspiring to kill Castro, with Judyth's help. but Garrison never quite figured this out -- it is fascinating to read his Playboy interview that includes musings about Ferrie and a bioweapon aimed at Castro.

The research community needs to go back to school. Standards for what count as evidence -- and for how much evidence is enough evidence -- are generally lacking in those who consider themselves professional researchers, whereas so many of them are just plain not (pace Jim, Jack White's maunderings have always struct me as below par). As for whose anti-Judyth work deserves serious attention, I am inclined to think that Barb J holds first place. She has actually made phone calls and spoken to witnesses (not to Judyth, alas).

The problem with Barb is that she doesn't realize that what she found fundamentally supports Judyth's claims! Barb tried to refute Judyth's claim that she did any serious work at Roswell when, in fact, she proved the opposite. Judyth was heartbroken over the loss of the paper she wrote based on her Roswell studies. In the end, Barb found the abstract to the paper. I thanked her for her diligence and contribution to the cause. She didn't seem to understand -- or didn't want to.

Doug may have been reading posts, but he hasn't been paying attention. I would take one Judyth over a dozen
Weldons, Whites, and others unnamed. At this point in time, there is no excuse for anyone to doubt the identity
of Judyth Vary Baker. Read what Howard has said. He has it exactly right. Most of those here, with the notable
exception of Michael Hogan, seem to think this is some kind of magical mystery tour. But it is too serious for that.

Judyth has reponded more openly and in greater detail than anyone I have ever seen. Her experiences during
that concentrated period of time were virtually imprinted upon her memory--which, like her mind in general, is
far superior to that of most of those here. What Doug has said might fit most people, but Judyth never was one
of them. She is simply a superior human being who has sacrificed her life doing what she believed to be right!

Ed Haslam, who subjected Judyth to the most intensive scruity, who grew up in New Orleans and who knows the
place like the back of his hand, has made the point that, within the range of human fallibility, he believes that
Judyth has told the truth to the best of her ability--and he has known those who have disagreed about what
happened when they were in the same room at the time of its occurrence, which many of us know to be true.

He points out one of the striking aspects of Judyth's story. When she went to meet Alton Ochsner, who had been
the President of the American Cancer Society, LEE WENT IN FIRST. As he emphasizes on pages 321-322, this
is a rather profound point. Ochsner would later claim that Oswald was a communist and the lone assassin, yet
he knew Lee well enough that Lee MET WITH HIM ALONE before he brought Judyth Vary in to meet with him.

Reread what Howard has to said. Study Ed Haslam's book. She was lured to New Orleans. She met Ochsner.
She worked with Mary Sharman and David Farrie. She did all the things she said she has done and they were
welcome and appreciated in New Orleans just as she has explained it. Nothing else makes any sense at all. I
am stunned at the incapacity to think things through by some I have admired in the past. They really should get
over it. Judyth is "the real deal" and what she has to tell us transforms our understanding of the death of JFK.

[quote name='Doug Weldon' post='190158' date='Apr 20 2010, 01:20 AM']
[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='190023' date='Apr 19 2010, 12:18 AM']
NOTICE OF TERMINATION OF FRIENDSHIP WITH JACK WHITE, WHO HAS FINALLY DISGUSTED ME

I cannot believe that someone I have admired in the past would stoop to such a sophomoric level by
lodging such a blatant ad hominem. Those who resort to arguments of this caliber have discredited
themselves massively. I denounce each and every one of them, including the author of the post Jack
has repeated her and the hack who posted it. I am completely disgusted and want nothing more to
do with them. Michael Hogan and Howard Platzman are honorable men. Those who resort to such
disgraceful tactics are not. Cease and desist, Jack White. You have forefeitted being taken seriously.
Please know that I want nothing more to do with you in any context at all. We are no longer friends.

[quote name='Jack White' post='190000' date='Apr 18 2010, 07:43 PM']
It seems that most researchers (wisely) do not want to become involved in the thread re JVB. For
some reason many of them seem to focus on emailing me to vent their feelings at a safe venue. So
far about a dozen have emailed me varying messages about JVB. Here is a typical EXCERPT from one
received just today (anonymous for obvious reasons):

[color="#000080"]"I have believed for years that sexual frustration lies at the root of JVB’s motives – that she is more to be pitied than deplored. The sad but indisputable fact is that she is now overweight and unattractive and was once rather attractive (amply endowed, as she has pointed out on occasion), showing much promise in her academic abilities which never came to fruition. She has lived a life peppered with disappointment, unable to get along with people for more than a few weeks. Every relationship – mostly with men -- eventually goes down the toilet."
[/color]

There are many other unsolicited emails. They are wise to not enter the public area of controversy. This
has been going on for ten years now, with new supporters taking up the torch when others become
disenchanted. How much longer will it go on?

Jack[/quote]
[/quote]

Nothing bothers me more in this thread than this posting. On the windshield thread I noted more than once that one did not have to agree with me to be my friend. Barb, Tink, and Jerry disagree with me about the hole in the windshield but I have no personal animosity towards any of them. I simply believed that the arguments were becoming circuitous and that there was not enough understanding of the witnesses to engage further in a constructive dialog. I was not going to write my book on the thread but I did find portions of the thread to be constructive and at the end I actually held a higher opinion and respect for these people than I did at the beginning. If one has to agree with everything one posits then all of us are going to have a very short list of friends.

Each of us is entitled to an opinion and to weigh the evidence and because one has a higher educational background it does not make their opinion or analysis superior to anothers. I have five years of undergraduate credits, a law degee, a masters degree, and I am 6 course hours short of completing the course work for a P.H.D. in education. I think Joe Biden would rightfully respond to that, "Big F---ing Deal!" My analysis is not superior to anyone's.

I am going to make some personal references. I believe friendships and relationships are what is most important in life. If anyone on this forum believes that we are going to develop a total concensus on the death of JFK and bring people to justice then they are living in a fantasyland. To seek to find truth is not only noble it is imperative to defining the society in which we live and for those who will live after us. I use the rhetorical question of why do old men plant trees that they will never see grow? History will always be the myth that people choose to believe and I, as much as anyone, would like to remove much of the myth that exists about November 22, 1963. It is important but it is not so important that we destroy the friendships and relationships that are truly the essence of our lives. Again, I make a personal reference. It is easy to become obsessed in pursuing the truth in the JFK labrynith. I recall my ex-wife telling me that I seemed to pay more attention to a dead president than I did to her. Sadly, in retrospect, she was often correct. For any endeavor, there is a cost to be paid. The ultimate question is whether the cost was worth it. Sometimes it is. Many times it is not. To do it again, I would have made some different decisions.

The most rewarding aspect of being involved with this for 32 years has been the wonderful people and witnesses I have gotten to know. For the witnesses who trusted me I want to keep my promise to tell their accounts for history but I am under no pretense that everyone is going to agree with me or them and I understand that even to get my book published is likely to be a difficult endeavor. I do, however, value that I got to know these witnesses as people, and in writing my book I often smile as I listen to the conversations I had with these people, many now deceased. I enjoy the researchers I have met, agree or disagree, and I respect everyone of them whom I believe has truth as their objective. It is the personal part of these people that endures for me. It is my privilege to get to know these people, even if it is only a voice on the phone or a posting on the internet. I have met Jack and Jim a number of times. I value that. They are passionate people. Some people walk into a room softly. Others come in driving a truck with horns blaring. We can respect people for who they are and the world needs all of these types.

I cannot accept Judyth's account for a number of reasons. Jim, I have watched her on TMWKK. To be honest, when I copy the segments from 2003 and give them to people I often leave out her segment because I fear it detracts from the value of episode 7, on which both you and I appeared, and segment 9. The fact that Nigel Turner believes her really means nothing. I do not believe that there was an altruistic motive for Nigel in his productions but he was motivated by it being a commercial enterprise. I am not fooling myself. Nigel spent days at my house on several occasions. If my opinion was that Oswald did it alone I doubt that my charm would have captivated his time and attention. As Jim Garrison said about the Warren Commission and being told that they were important or distinquished people had no impact on his examination of the evidence.

I have read Haslam's book with great interest. Again, I submit a personal reference. In 2001 I had non-hodgkin's lymphoma and on the Men Who Killed Kennedy I was bloated and my eyes were distorted from Chemo. What is interesting about this cancer is that it is one of the cancers that are increasing and they are finding that a large portion of the people with the cancer have evidence of the "Monkey Virus." It is that, not Judyth, which stirred my interest in the book. Ironically, Jackie Kennedy died of this cancer!

There are many things which cause me concern about Judyth. I will only note a few. One of the arguments in favor of her credibility has been that a researcher went over the known timeline of Oswald's whereabouts and activities and she got everything right. A major reason I doubt her is that she got everything right. Can you tell me everything your wife did the first week of October 2009 yet 40 plus years ago? How about what you did?

Judyth remembers EVERYTHING Oswald told her. He must have been talking from morning to night and she would have to be a stenographer to keep track of everything. How could she ever remember the japanese girl or David Phillips and other names and instances that would have no meaning to her. If somewhat shot names or stories at you forty years ago that had no meaning to you would you remember them? Why would you save your pay stubbs and records? Do you have yours from 45 years ago? Again, a personal reference. While I was teaching in the criminal justice department at Western Michigan Universityyears ago, I shared an office with a former police officer, who the following semester murdered his wife, who was a leading local newscaster. It was the first case ever on Court Television and the prosecuter was an individual I shared rides with my first year in law school. There have been three books written about the murder. How easy would it be for me to start talking about the great friendship we had, how we would go out to the bar together, and the things he would talk about. He had been having affairs with his students which added to the interest. It would be so easy to insert and mesh my life with his. The truth is I really did not know him at all.

Judyth's so-called Russian statements to Oswald when they allegedly first met are preposterous. Furthermore, Judyth's recall of statements between her and Oswald is not only amazing but also preposterous. It makes Romeo and Juliet look like a slap-stick comedy. Listen to Oswald's radio interviews and his statements in Dallas such as "a policeman hit me." Yes, Oswald was intelligent but he was not educated. Judyth's Oswald makes James Bond look like a character from Hee Haw. Listen to him. Can you picture this Oswald making the tearful heartrenching statements about Judyth having babies? Would the worst soap opera on television even think about putting such dialog in their show? When you were in the marines could you picture yourself saying such things to your wife or girlfriend? Did Oswald not have enough on his schedule with having a wife, a child, and a new born baby, and his travel and activities, that he could or would fit in this elaborate affair with Judyth? Did Oswald not have feelings towards his newly born child? If their love was so deep and the future so fragile why did Judyth not become pregnant? Who would know whose child it was?

How difficult is it to create accounts for times where Oswalds whereabouts or activities were unknown? It seems like that every time something cannot be accounted for then, lo and behold, Judyth happens to be there. Every single unknown woman Oswald happened to be seen with turns out to be, Surprise, Judyth.

Again, I am not questioning that Oswald was bright, but do you believe he was an intellectual? JFK was not an intellectual. Oswald had an IQ of 118, Kennedy 119. Obama has an IQ of 126. Ironically, the president with the highest IQ was Nixon with 164. Judyth said Oswald's favorite poet was Pushkin. I have learned a lot about Pushkin and I don't think so. He certainly did not check out any books by Pushkin at the Dallas library. Where are the books? It would be like me telling everyone that I read some Shakespearian plays everyday for light reading until I have the opportunity to read something more entertaining like "The epistomology of Statistical Analysis when comparing river sediment in Brazil."

I can go on and on. Judyth is obviously very bright which makes her ability to create an account more plausible. After reading everything she has done I am beginning to believe that this poor woman was cheated out of all the Nobel prizes. Whatever the truth is, Judyth is a damaged witness. She has read too much. When she tells of something she has done it is virtually followed by a Wilkepedia article oin the subject. She is tainted. She knows where the holes can be found in the Oswald story and thus knows where she can safely insert herself. She is too good. She can account for virtually every moment. When she can't it was because she got rammed head on by a rhinocerous and momentarily lost her memory which then comes back. If something turns out to be wrong it is because it is an unauthorized account which happened to have gotten stolen. Who writes unauthorized accounts? Humans are fallible. One of the things I argued about the validity of Nick Prencipe was his fallibility.He could have researched Greer and knew exactly where to put himself having a conversation with his friend William Greer. His uncertainty and mistakes are what gave him credibility. The human mind distorts details after 40 years but certain things are remembered. I can tell you what a great party I was at 2 years ago and some people fell into a pool but I can't tell you everyone who was there and if I did I might remember someone being there who was not there.

These are concerns. I am not passing a final judgment on Judyth. You, with your contacts with her, are indeed in a better position than I to evaluate her. You may ultimately be right. However, because of her research, she is virtually worthless as a witness. In big cases, we were always concerned about overpreparing a witness to where their account seems contrived. I once had a case with a young girl who was a CSC victim. I wanted her to be prepared for whatever questions that might come her way. I would talk with her. At first her head would be down and she could only whisper. I would give her a tootsie roll pop each time. One day she came in my office smiling and said "Mr. Weldon, he put his penis in my vagina. Could I have a sucker?" I was crushed. Judyth has overprepared herself to the extent that she has lost, if it was there, the ring of truth. She is the witness that an opposing attorney would drool to cross-examine.

All of us are only here for a moment. I respect everyone who has devoted themselves in an honest way to finding truth. It is thankless and often the best result is simply to be ridiculed. Do you doubt that Jack or Lifton have a motive other than truth? Did Armstrong give up 12 years of his life and the money and time for all of the "fame" this has now brought him. I think Barb, Jerry, and even Pamela care. Otherwise it's not worth it. People have become skiddish on this thread. Toi silence someone is not to convince them. How many people on this forum do you believe you have convinced that Judyth is the real deal? You know I am religious. Whether Judyth is truthful or not, may God bless her. I do hope truth will prevail, that right will triumph wrong, and as Garrison noted, that virtue shallbe its own reward.

Warm regards,

Doug
[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JIM REPLIES TO THE MASS OF CRITICS WHO ARE PILING ON ABOUT ANOTHER BLUNDER

Jack now accuses me of a contradiction in relation to Judyth's meeting Ochsner. So precisely what is this contradiction supposed to be? It can't be that Judyth never met Ochnser. And, from everything I can discern, Lee took her there and went in first. So what is the alleged contradiction? THE DATE? But I did not specify any date. So how can Jack know that I committed a contradiction about the date when I did not specify the date? I cited my source. What does it say?

A few days after her lunch with David Ferrrie, Lee takes Judyth to Charity Hospital for a meeting with Dr. Alton Ochsner. The date is May 7, 1963. Lee goes in first and meets with Ochsner alone for 45 minutes. When he comes out, Judyth goes in and meets with Ochsner alone. Haslam (2007), p. 321

So is the date of May 7, 1963, mistaken? Not to my knowledge. As I understand it, the conflict to which Jack alludes arose because Howard Platzman, at one point in time, assigned a date that was about a week earlier when Ochnser was in South America. But that was Howard's mistake. If I am right about this, then, once again, Jack has advanced (what he takes to be) a damning claim against Judyth that does not withstand critical scrutiny. And this for the 20th(?) time.

No one is doing any research on Judyth other than to endlessly recycle misunderstandings, confusions, and mistakes of the past. I have offered many resources, including the following chapter, which has been on my blog since April 9th. I wonder how many here have actually read it? And as for "double standards", Judyth must be the most examined witness in history! The double-standard has nothing to do with Judyth and everything to do with Armstrong and HARVEY & LEE.

I have explained more than a half-dozen mistakes in Armstrong, including an error about the "index" to the supporting volumes, another about the date of the creation of the Warren Commission, another about the lack of substantiation of the witness who claimed that "Harvey" was at Beaugregard Junior High the semester before "Lee" arrived, the whole "lost tooth" fiasco, Judyth's study of eye-color, and multiple issues about the photographs. They have all been ignored.

The fact of the matter is that Judyth has been subjected to a more thorough vetting and critical examination than anyone has ever been. Yet her story has remained "rock solid", not in the minds of her critics--who are willing to base their rejection upon the flimsiest evidence (as in the case of Lifton and Armstrong)--who have fallen for rumor and innuendo, time and time again. Read this chapter, which I posted several weeks ago, and get up-to-speed about Judyth's story.

Friday, April 9, 2010
Edward Haslam - DR. MARY'S MONKEY

Those who are most critical about Judyth Vary Baker appear to be those who know the least about her. It is therefore fortunate indeed that the author of DR. MARY'S MONKEY, Edward Haslam, has spend some 1,000 hours questioning her and establishing the core authenticity of her story. His book, which appeared in 2007, and my interview with him on "The Real Deal", which is being broadcast this evening, provide a context for understanding how she came into contact with Lee Harvey Oswald in the first place. It is therefore my great pleasure to present a chapter from Ed's book, which is indispensable for understanding what was going on in the city at the time, which had more to do with an extraordinary cancer-research project than it did with a personal relationship.

The late Jim Garrison, former DA of New Orleans, describes his investigation of the Kennedy assassination and his subsequent arrest of Clay Shaw. Some of Garrison's assistant DAs contribute to this story.

Judyth has much more to tell us regarding some of the murkiest aspects of assassination research, events which were taking place in New Orleans during 1963. As Ed Haslam has explained in his book and during the interview, Judyth and Lee were collaborating with David Ferrie and Dr. Mary Sherman in a project that evolved from the necesssity to develop an anti-cancer-virus cure that became crucial when it was discovered that the polio vaccine being use to inoculate around 100,000,000 children and young adults was contaminated with the SV-40 virus, derived from the incubation of batches for study in the kidneys of Rhesus monkeys, into the development of a bioweapon to take out officially designated targets. It is a fascinating and remarkable story, which I am only now beginning to piece together.

I myself have been slow to appreciate what was going on and that their relationship appears to have been arranged in order for Lee to assist Judyth with the practical aspects of life in relation to the threats and promises of the New Orleans environment, where many dark secrets and covert activities linked Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Carlos Marcello, and Lee Oswald together in anti-Castro activities. Meanwhile, David Ferrie, Mary Sherman, and Alton Ochsner had been atempting to fix a cure for polio that was more dangerous than the disease, but by the time Judyth was on the scene, attention had sifted to bioweapon development. After all, as Judyth has observed, what doctor would assume that a cancer developing in a person was anything but natural? Containimated vaccines continued to be used until the 1990s.

Judyth has added that research on a cure for the contaminated vaccine had largely subsided by the time she became actively involved and that emphasis was focused at that time on the development of radidly-developing cancers for use a bioweapons to eliminate enemies of the state, initially including Fidel Castro but probably employed on Jack Ruby as well, because he "knew too much" about activities the government preferred not to share with the public. You will be as stunned as I to learn how much more was involved in the relationship between Lee and Judyth than has been presented on this very thread, where the personal has overshadowed the scientific. Research on an unexpected problem in the "cure for polio" and the development of a bioweapon are the crucial elements that we have been missing.

DR. MARY'S MONKEY - Ed Haslam interviewed on "The Real Deal" with Jim Fetzer (6 April 2010):

[NOTE: Here is an extract from Ed Haslam's first book on these matters.]

MARY, FARRIE, & THE MONKEY VIRUS
The Witness / Chapter 17
By Edward Haslam

In 1995, on the eve of publication of the 1st edition of this book, a fellow writer cautioned me “You have everything except a witness.”

Five years later, the phone rang. It was 60 Minutes, the CBS News TV show. They were investigating a woman who said that she had been in the laboratory I wrote about in my book. In the laboratory in David Ferrie’s apartment. Did I want to talk to them?

Frankly, it was not a good time to ask me that question. In 2000 I was extremely busy doing other things in my professional life and was not anxious to get drawn back into the story that had dominated so many years of my life.

On the other hand, I respected the power of the 60M microphone. Whatever they said, whether right or wrong, critical or favorable, would be heard by millions of people and would shape the public’s understanding of events which I cared about. I reluctantly decided to participate enough to keep an eye on the situation. We agreed to meet for an off-camera interview. They sent me background materials to review, and one of their investigators came to see me – a lawyer. Ironically, it was 60M that brought me the witness that I had been missing.

After reviewing the materials which they sent me (which did not include any of the photos of the woman nor the evidence that I will be showing you shortly), they asked me to comment. My opening remark was: “Well, she needs to be written up. Either in the history books or the medical books. At the moment, I am not sure which one.” Neither were they.

60M’s interest in this woman was fueled by the sensational aspects of her story – that she had met Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in the summer of 1963, that they had fallen in love and had an affair, despite the fact that both were married to other people at the time. Any TV executive could see the blockbuster potential for a sizzling story built around the vortex of love, sex, politics and the accused assassin of JFK set in America’s most exotic city. They eagerly flew their investigators to New Orleans and interviewed Oswald’s girlfriend for hours.[1]

60M asked Oswald’s girl friend all the logical questions: “Where are you from? Why were you in New Orleans? Where did you work? Where did you live? How did you meet Lee? What did you do together? Did you ever hear the subject of killing JFK discussed?” And Oswald’s girlfriend kept answering them. Before long 60M realized that their sizzling little romance between a beautiful young woman and a soon-to-be-accused assassin had morphed into an 800 pound gorilla with “serious politics” written all over it. The adulteress sitting in front of them stated that she and Lee Harvey Oswald stood side-by-side in an underground medical laboratory located in David Ferrie’s apartment on Louisiana Avenue Parkway in New Orleans and that she was the laboratory technician that handled the cancer-causing monkey viruses which were being used to develop a biological weapon for the purpose of killing Fidel Castro. To put the icing on the cake, the entire project was secretly directed by the famous Dr. Alton Ochsner (former President of the American Cancer Society) and supervised by a prestigious cancer researcher named Dr. Mary Sherman who worked for Dr. Ochsner at his hospital. Further, after successfully killing numerous monkeys with their new biological weapon, this group had tested it on a human subject in a mental hospital, killing the human. Lethal human experiments! Leaders of American medicine and the accused assassin of the American President involved together in developing a biological weapon! Can you hear 60M’s signature sound effect ticking in the background?

As the dimensions of the story grew, so did 60M’s demands for hard evidence. 60M was not about to risk their credibility over an unsupported story involving a homemade biological weapon and the accused assassin of the President without hard evidence. This is when they contacted me, because I had already written a book that sounded very similar. Yes, they had my book, but no, they had not read it yet. I insisted that the 60M investigator read it, every-word, cover-to-cover, which she said that she did on her flight back to New York. No, I did not have the hard evidence about Judyth they were looking for. But I never said that I did. From my perspective, I was particularly concerned 60M could discredit her story as a means of discrediting mine. Such were my initial thoughts.

The next problem came when I read her name in the documents they had sent: Judyth Vary Baker. The problem was that I already knew someone named Judyth Vary Baker. And she had said that she was a close friend of Lee Harvey Oswald. My girlfriend Barbara and I went to a party at her house in New Orleans in 1972.[2]

When it became clear that the woman brought to me by 60M was not the same person I met in 1972, I realized that I had met two separate women claiming to be “Judyth Vary Baker” who claimed to have known “Lee Oswald.” Simply said, one had to be an impostor. With the information available to me at that time, I could not tell 60M which one was the impostor. I hoped they would be able to tell me.

At that point, 60M pulled the plug on the Judyth story. The rank-and-file CBS producers and investigators had worked hard on the story. They were extremely disappointed by the decision from their bosses to terminate the story. One insider forwarded me an email written by a senior 60M executive in which he stated that 60M had spend more time and money investigating Judyth’s story than they had on any story in their 20 year history. To refuse to air the story after making that kind of investment was difficult decision for them. It makes one wonder “Who really made 60M’s decision to abort?” and “Why?”

After the 60M debacle, I contacted Judyth Vary Baker directly. I was curious about this unusual woman and wanted to learn more about her. If she could show me that she was the real Judyth Vary Baker, then it meant the other Judyth Vary Baker that I had met in 1972 was the impostor. This raised some very interesting questions: Why would someone have gone to the trouble to impersonate Baker back in 1972? How did they know who she was? How did they know about her connection to Oswald? Why was I invited to her party? Why did they tell me her name?

Yes, the 1972 incident did cause confusion and distrust amongst the 60M team. Their only evidence was my word and my memory. But that was their perspective. I, on the other hand, was the one who was there. I knew what I saw. I knew what I heard. And I remembered the names clearly.[3] The fact that 60M had a real live person who said that her name was Judyth Vary Baker and that she had known Lee Oswald made the 1972 “Judyth Vary Baker” incident even more interesting to me. I decided to learn more about this new “Judyth Vary Baker” to figure out why someone had wanted me to know who she was back in 1972.

In 2001, I happened to live in Bradenton, Florida, the small town on the west coast of Florida where Judyth was raised. When Judyth said that she would be visiting Bradenton soon to see her aging mother, we agreed to meet.

I took the day off from work so that I would not be distracted by business matters. We met in the lobby of the central library and drove to a local restaurant where we could talk. Judyth picked a restaurant where she knew the owner. When we got there, she introduced me to the owner who remembered her fondly, and we were shown a table in the back where we could talk. For the next several hours, Judyth displayed binders of documents she had collected and neatly organized over the years and told me her story, page by page. It was only then that I really began to understand the dimensions of what she was saying. Finally, I looked at her carefully, studying her pensive blue eyes and her coke-bottle thick glasses, and said “You are telling me that you personally stood in David Ferrie’s apartment with Lee Oswald at your side, day after day, and worked with cancer-causing monkey viruses so that you could develop a biological weapon to kill Fidel Castro?”

“Yes,” she said.

I felt that Judyth’s story was an important development. So I called the writer who said that I had “everything except a witness” and told him about Judyth. His book had been on the JFK assassination. He assured me that Judyth was a walking-talking misinformation machine sent by CIA to cause chaos and confusion amongst the JFK assassination research community and that the documents that I had seen were probably forgeries.

“If these documents are fake,” I countered, “They are the best forgeries I have ever seen. I’m talking about 30 year old newspapers and faded ink.”

“Langley does great work,” he quipped.[4]

“You once told me that my only problem was that I didn’t have a witness,” I retorted. “Now my problem seems to be that I have a witness.”

I begin my discussion of Judyth this way to show how skeptical I was of her. It was clear to me that Judyth’s road to acceptance was going to be difficult one. Was she crazy? Was she an impostor? Had she made up her story after reading my book? Would people think Judyth and I were some sort of tag team that were secretly coordinating our stories? These are fair questions for the average person who has heard her story from others and has not seen her evidence presented properly. If you quarter some of these thoughts, know that I did, too. It is reasonable to be suspicious of claims that challenge our understanding of history. But it is unreasonable to ignore evidence because it might change your mind or challenge the positions that you have taken in public. History shows us new information is rarely welcome. And Judyth has new information.

It’s time to get to the core questions about Judyth Vary Baker. I consider the three most important questions to be:

1. Is “this Judyth” the real Judyth Vary Baker from Bradenton, Florida? Or is she the impostor?

2. Did Judyth know Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in 1963? If she does not have reasonable proof to support this claim, then there is little point in pondering her story.

3. Was Judyth trained to handle cancer-causing viruses before she went to New Orleans in 1963? If 1 and 2 above are true, then this point would qualify her as a suspect for “the technician” that I wrote about in “The Pandemic” chapter.

If the answers to all three questions are “yes,” then we need to pay attention to what Judyth has to say, even if it conflicts with both the official and the unofficial stories concerning Oswald and his role (whatever it was) in the assassination of JFK. Even if it disagrees with the self-appointed Oswald experts. And even if it disagrees with some of the things I originally said in this book. Let’s tackle these questions right now - one at a time.

1. Is she the real Judyth Vary Baker from Bradenton, Florida?

Judyth had shown me a collection of newspaper articles when we met in 2001. Several had photos of her. Most of the articles were published in The Bradenton Herald, one of the local newspapers in the Bradenton, Florida.

A year later, in February 2002, I started working for The Bradenton Herald. My role was to handle their market research materials, but my position gave me access to their news library and their microfilm collection. This microfilm collection had been copied about 10 years earlier, and the copy had been given to the Bradenton Public Library. The public could see the microfilm collection at the public library, but the original microfilm was kept in the news department’s research library on the upper floor of The Bradenton Herald and was not open to the public. No one could have anticipated that I would start working for The Bradenton Herald and would have access to their original microfilm collection. If I could find Judyth’s newspaper articles there in the off-limits microfilm collection, I could settle the “forgeries” issue once-and-for-all. I got Judyth to send me a list of publication dates for the articles she had.

Yes, I found all of The Bradenton Herald newspaper articles that Judyth had shown me in the microfilm library of The Bradenton Herald. She had also shown me two other newspaper articles which I will be discussing later in this chapter.

So the answer to our first question is “Yes, she is definitely the real Judyth Vary Baker from Bradenton, Florida.” Her maiden name was Judyth Anne Vary, and she was frequently referred to as Judy in the press of the day. She is easy to recognize in the photos. Bradenton was proud of her. “Judy” was going to find the cure for cancer.[5] She presents copious evidence to support all of this in her book.[6]

2. Did Judyth know Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in 1963?

It might help the reader to know there has never been any dispute over the fact that the person that the press has referred to as Lee Harvey Oswald worked at a coffee company in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. This is reported by the Warren Commission and acknowledged throughout the JFK assassination research community. In fact, I have never heard anyone dispute it. Beyond that, I personally heard Boatner Reily, later the president of that same coffee company, state that they (the Wm. B. Reily Coffee Company) had turned over their employment records of Lee Harvey Oswald to the U.S. Government immediately after the assassination. What is less clear to the casual reader is whether Lee Oswald worked for the Standard Coffee Company or for the Wm. B. Reilly Coffee Company, since the names differ on various documents. Both companies were owned and operated by William B. Reily and his family, so the difference in the names is not important. Lee Oswald worked for Reily. So did Judyth Vary Baker.

Here is her W2 tax form submitted by Wm. B. Reily & Co. to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service which proves that she did.

This document was provided to me directly by Judyth Vary Baker who scanned it from the original. I accept it as authentic.[7] I have blocked out the last four digits of her Social Security number to protect her privacy. I did, however, compare that social security number with a variety of other documents which Judyth provided to me, such as her college transcripts, and I assure the reader that the numbers match.

The name on the document is Judyth Anne Baker. The person we now know as Judyth Vary Baker was known as Judyth Anne Vary until she married Robert Baker and became Judyth Anne Baker in 1963. Back then it was not common for women to incorporate their maiden names into their married names.

W2 forms are mailed out in January of the following year - in this case, in January 1964 for the 1963 tax year. The address on the form shows where the form was mailed, not where the person lived during their employment. Judyth left New Orleans in September 1963 after her employment with Reily ended and returned to Florida. The Ft. Walton address on Judyth’s W2 form was her husband’s family’s residence which he used as his official address while attending the University of Florida in Gainesville.

The amount of money shown on the W2 form is consistent with Judyth’s pay stubs from Reily, which I also have copies of. It should be emphasized that Judyth was referred to Reily by the same employment agency that referred Lee Oswald and that she started work on the same day. Judyth worked directly for Reily’s Vice–President William I. Monaghan, an ex-FBI agent who later testified to the Warren Commission about Oswald. But Monaghan did not mention Judyth to the Warren Commission nor did he mention that another person was hired on the same day that Oswald was hired.

A simple gumshoe investigation a murder suspect would have started with friends and associates, particularly at the place of employment. A gumshoe investigation of Oswald would have checked out Reily Coffee, found Judyth, and realized that she was close to Oswald. They started on the same day and arrived at work together each morning, though they frequently clocked in at different times, due to Lee’s other activities in the neighborhood. We even find Judyth’s initials on Lee’s timecards. Figuring out their connection would not have been difficult. Consider these obvious points. Neither Lee nor Judyth owned a car. Reily Coffee was located on Magazine Street. Both Judyth and Lee lived along the Magazine Street bus route and rode the bus to work. Day after day, Lee would get on the bus at the 4900 block of Magazine. Several blocks later Judyth would get on at the corner of Marengo Street and sit next to Lee. Bus drivers recognize their regular customers. The bus driver could have easily confirmed that Judyth and Lee sat together every morning, read the newspaper, and talked - and that they got off the bus together near the Reily Coffee Company. This would not have been difficult for an investigator to sort out.[8]

Who was this young woman who talked to the accused assassin of the President on a daily basis? What did she know about him? What did she know about the assassination? Did she have prior knowledge? These are good questions, and a competent investigator would have asked them. So why were they not asked?

Did the Warren Commission send in a gumshoe to investigate Oswald at Reily? No, they asked the “ex-FBI” agent that hired Oswald about him.[9] And that ex-FBI agent did not mention that his own secretary, whom he also hired, started on the same day and arrived at his front door with Oswald every morning. How convenient! This raises the question: Did Monaghan knowingly withhold information from the Warren Commission? If he did, was he instructed to do so? And by whom? Was Judyth being protected in order to protect the bio-weapon project and the people behind it?

Several years after the Warren Commission “investigation,” the investigators working for New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison tracked down another young woman named Anna Lewis, a waitress who worked at Thompson’s Restaurant - a favorite gathering spot for the anti-Castro crowd around Lafayette Square in downtown New Orleans. At the time, Anna was married to David Lewis, who had worked for another “ex-FBI” agent Guy Banister. Today we have video testimony from Anna Lewis recorded in 2003 and made available on the internet by Dutch JFK researcher Wim Dankbaar. In this interview, Anna clearly states that she knew Lee Oswald and that Oswald was a regular customer at Thompson’s in 1963. Further, she states that she and her husband socialized with Lee and Judyth together on a number of occasions. More importantly Anna Lewis admits that she lied to District Attorney Garrison and his investigators when they asked her about Oswald. Had Anna Lewis told Garrison the truth, Garrison could have easily tracked down Judyth. Garrison was already suspicious of Ochsner and his role in the media exposure of Oswald. If Garrison had had access to Judyth, and if Judyth told Garrison what she now tells us--that she and Lee were working on a biological weapon project under the direction of Dr. Alton Ochsner--Garrison’s investigation (and his whole life) might have turned out very differently. But she didn’t. Anna Lewis lied to Garrison because she was afraid. Meanwhile, Judyth hid silently because she was afraid. Two critical pieces of evidence were unavailable to the American people and their elected representatives (like Garrison) at the time they were pondering who killed their President. Now that we know differently, is it time to reconsider our history?

3. Was Judyth trained to handle cancer viruses before going to New Orleans?

The short answer is “yes,” and the evidence to support this is abundant. Here is a photo taken by the Herald-Tribune (a newspaper in the Bradenton area) showing Judyth in her cancer lab with her mice during high school. The numerous newspaper articles published in The Bradenton Herald tell a similar tale. Judyth was a star science student who wanted to find a cure for cancer. They wanted her to succeed. After creating lung cancer in her mice faster than anyone known to medical science, Judyth was given introductions, financing, opportunities, chemicals, tuition, and training. Her training was world-class.

I also know a man in Bradenton who remembers Judyth from high school. He was in an independent-study science class with Judyth and saw her on a regular basis during their senior year in high school. His comments to me are worth noting. He said “If you’re telling me that Judyth wound up in some secret lab doing some heavy duty experiments, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. She was always very intense and took herself very seriously.”

The next newspaper article that I would like to discuss was published in upstate New York in The Buffalo Courier-Express, which reported on the cancer research training program that Judyth attended at the Roswell Park Cancer Center.


There is a detail in the text of this article that I think is equally important. It’s a quote from Dr. Edwin Mirand who ran the program Judyth attended.


Dr. Mirand was half of the “Grace and Mirand” medical research team that wrote “Human Susceptibility to a Simian Tumor Virus,” an article published in the Annals of the New York Academy of Science in 1963.

I referred to this same article in every edition of my book since 1995. It has been listed in the bibliography the entire time.

In other words, this is proof that in 1961, Judyth personally knew and studied under the nation’s leading experts in cancer-causing monkey viruses which I wrote about.

And she did so 34 years before I published my book.

This article contradicts that notion that Judyth read my book and wrote herself into it. She did not. The evidence indicates that she was trained to handle cancer-causing viruses, lived in New Orleans, and knew Lee Oswald decades earlier.

This may be intoxicating news for those concerned about Judyth’s credibility and what she can tell us about Lee Oswald, but it is sobering to those of us worried about the fate of the biological weapon. This means that Judyth Vary Baker really did have the technical skills to handle the cancer-causing monkey viruses that might be used to create a biological weapon. Yes, Judyth Vary Baker had the technical qualifications to be “the technician” that did “the bench work” in the Ferrie-Sherman medical laboratory. Hearing Judyth admit that as a 19-year old she assisted Lee Harvey Oswald, David Ferrie, Dr. Mary Sherman, and Dr. Alton Ochsner in their efforts to develop a biological weapon is… a brain-buster! I guess I have my witness.

We are at the end of our three qualifying questions about Judyth Vary Baker. The answers were “yes, yes, yes.” Our next step is to ask what else did she say?

Here is a brief summary of the parts of Judyth’s story that are relevant to the our inquiry. A more in depth account is the appendix entitled “Judyth’s Story.”

- 1. Judyth went to New Orleans in the 1963 at the invitation of Dr. Alton Ochsner.

- 2. Ochsner had known Judyth for several years and had previously arranged for her to be trained at the famous cancer research center discussed above.

- 3. Ochsner promised Judyth early-admission to Tulane Medical School in return for her services in Dr. Mary Sherman’s cancer lab at Ochsner Clinic. Ochsner also provided her with cancer research papers on the state-of-the-art techniques such as cancer-causing viruses.

- 4. Judyth wound up working under Sherman’s direction in the underground medical laboratory in David Ferrie’s apartment instead of in her cancer lab at the Ochsner clinic.

- 5. Judyth met Lee Oswald at the Post Office in what she thought was a chance encounter. In hind-sight, she realized that this had to be intentional, since Lee was already working with David Ferrie, Dr. Mary Sherman and Dr. Alton Ochsner on the bio-weapon at the time. Lee introduced her to “Dr. David Ferrie” the following day and helped Judyth find an apartment.

- 6. When Judyth went to meet Dr. Ochsner in a room within the bowels of Charity Hospital, Lee Oswald accompanied her to the appointment and went in first to meet with Dr. Ochsner alone.

- 7. Lee was working with ex-FBI agent Guy Banister as has been reported by many sources. Lee took Judyth to meet Banister in his office to satisfy her concerns that the bio-weapons project is really a secret government operation. Banister confirmed that Lee was working with them on a get-Castro project.[10]

- 8. When Judyth went to Dr. Sherman’s apartment for a private dinner with her, David Ferrie was the only other guest. Sherman and Ferrie discussed the nature of their project with Judyth. They deemed the idea of using cancer-causing viruses to kill Castro as morally ethical since is might prevent World War III. Lee phoned Judyth that same night at Sherman’s apartment. Dr. Mary Sherman was the operational director of “the project.” Ferrie and Oswald were participants.

- 9. Lee escorted and transported Judyth all over town, including to Dr. Sherman’s apartment where Judyth dropped off “the product” and related reports forSherman’s review. Lee was “the runner.”

- 10. Judyth and Lee were provided cover-jobs at Reily Coffee Company where they were allowed to slip out several afternoons a week to work in the underground medical laboratory in David Ferrie’s apartment.[11]

- 11. Lee Oswald’s connections to the Mafia in New Orleans are much stronger than have ever been reported publicly.[12] Judyth and Lee ate-for-free at restaurants owned by Carlos Marcello and went to his headquarters (500 Club and Town & Country Motel).

- 12. Lee’s role in the kill-Castro portion of the project was to transport the bio-weapon into Cuba. The radio debates and film clips of Oswald’s leafleting were arranged by Ochsner (at Oswald’s request) to make Oswald appear to be an authentic defector so he could get into Cuba more easily.

- 13. Judyth heard the subject of assassinating JFK was discussed at various times by various people, including Ferrie, Sherman and Oswald. Part of the logic that was explained to Judyth was that they had to hurry up and kill Castro with their bio-weapon before Ochsner’s friend ran out of patience and decided to kill Kennedy instead.

- 14. After testing their bio-weapon on dozens of monkeys, they arranged to test it on a human “volunteer,” a convict brought from Angola State Penitentiary to the Jackson State Mental Hospital in rural Louisiana for that purpose. The weapon was successful. The man died in 28 days as a result.

- 15. Judyth wrote a letter to Dr. Ochsner protesting the use of an unwitting human in their bio-weapon test and delivered it to his secretary.[13] Upon seeing the letter, Ochsner exploded in anger and threatened both Judyth and Lee. Everything fell apart for Judyth as a result. Ochsner reneged on his offer to place Judyth in Tulane Medical School. Lee was ordered to Dallas. Judyth went back to Florida with her husband.

- 16. For the next few months, Judyth and Lee stayed in contact by telephone, thanks to access to the Mafia’s “secret” Miami-to-Las Vegas sports betting lines courtesy of David Ferrie. While the phone company and the U.S. Government might not have been able to listen to their conversations, the Mafia would have been able to!

- 17. On Wednesday, November 20, 1963, Lee told Judyth that there would be a real attempt to kill President Kennedy when he visits Dallas on Friday. It is the last time they talked.

But we are not here to figure out who killed JFK. We are trying to understand who was using radiation to mutate monkey viruses and why. Judyth’s testimony is an important piece of the puzzle for us to have. Judyth’s account means that a witness who participated in “the project” (as they called it) has confessed that both she and Lee Oswald were operational members of the Ferrie-Sherman underground medical laboratory and that they knew that they were developing a biological weapon. This is a major point. Think about how difficult it would have been to investigate and prosecute Lee Oswald in a court of law for killing Kennedy without exposing that laboratory, its sponsors, the cancer-causing viruses that contaminated the polio vaccine, and all of the ethical and medical questions arising from their irradiation of a flotilla of dangerous monkey viruses. Can you imagine the publicity? The political fall-out? With one side of Lee’s life connected to anti-Communists like Ochsner, Reily, and Banister (and perhaps the FBI and the CIA) and the other side connected to Carlos Marcello and almost everyone around him, Oswald’s trial would have exposed everything. Whether Oswald had anything to do with killing Kennedy or not, the exposure of a trial would have created obvious problems for the sponsors of the lab.

Like the cover-up which dumped Mary Sherman’s burned and mangled corpse into her apartment, Lee’s murder was deemed “a necessity” to protect the underground medical laboratory and its sponsors. In doing so, they silenced the man who could have explained what really happened (or perhaps what did not happen) in Dallas on November 22, 1963.[14] Perhaps this was part of their plan all along.

Today, Judyth’s goal is to exonerate Lee Oswald. She will never stop her crusade to clear his name. I consider the bulk of what she has said to be as accurate as she can be held accountable for. She is explaining what happened in her life to the best of her ability. I have seen people that I knew were in the same room with each other at the same time disagree on what happened. Disagreement is not the acid test of truth. Events are always colored by perception. Judyth knows what she heard and knows what she believes, much of which is what she was led to believe by others. Yes, Judyth loved Lee. Judyth believed Lee. Judyth trusted Lee. She also trusted Dr. Alton Ochsner, Dr. Mary Sherman and David Ferrie. She was really there with Lee Oswald in New Orleans. She was young, impressionable, naïve and gullible. Somewhere along the line both she and Lee were betrayed. But there is a limit to what she knows. Judyth was not in Dallas on November 22, 1963.[15] We all need to distinguish between what she personally saw and heard versus what she understands or believes to be the case. Both her critics and her supporters need to make these distinctions. So does she. So do I.

Next we look at what Judyth said that disagrees with things I wrote in earlier editions of this book.

First, I remind the reader that I did not feel that I had strong enough evidence in hand to endorse the claimed connection between Mary Sherman and David Ferrie without reservation and that I challenged any researcher to come foreword with real evidence or testimony that they were associated. They did.[16] Judyth clearly states Mary Sherman knew David Ferrie well. In fact, Judyth had dinner with Sherman and Ferrie at Sherman’s apartment. Judyth is adamant that Mary Sherman was definitely part of the cancer-virus research project that was going on at David Ferrie’s apartment. In fact, part of Judyth’s daily operational cycle was to bring “the extracts” of her cancer-causing virus research from Ferrie’s apartment to Mary Sherman’s apartment. She also clearly states that Dr. Alton Ochsner was ultimately in charge of the Ferrie-Sherman lab. And that both she and Lee Oswald were part of the effort to use the cancer-causing monkey viruses to develop a biological weapon. No, David Ferrie had not run off with the mice after the Big Lab was shut down as I had suggested. The mice were delivered to his apartment several times per week for processing as part of the operation. To my mind, this has always been what I called “the worst case scenario” - the confirmed existence of the secret cooperation between talented scientists, dangerous radioactive equipment, monkey viruses and political extremists in an underground medical laboratory.

But did they use radiation to mutate the monkey viruses?

I wrote to Judyth and said that I needed to know specifically if she had been told that the viruses she was working with at David Ferrie’s apartment had been exposed to radiation at another location to change them genetically? I told her I wanted to make sure that no one can find any ambiguity in her statement or be able to misinterpret it, so I was going to put a magnifying glass on it. I needed clarification. I needed her to confirm or deny it based on what she knew? My exact words were:

“My question is about your time in New Orleans in the summer of 1963… Do I understand that you are saying that you were told that the extracts that you prepared at David Ferrie's apartment and delivered to Mary Sherman's apartment were being subjected to radiation and then recycled into more mice? Do I have this right?”

Judyth’s response:

==EXACTLY...ALSO, INTO MONKEYS. MANY WERE KILLED, BUT THEY ORDERED THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF NEW MONKEYS…==

I continued:

“By your term ‘we all knew it’ who are you referring to? Could I ask you to answer ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ to each person on this list separately. The question is: Did you personally discussed exposing your tumor extracts to radiation with this person:”

Judyth’s response:

Mary Sherman-- SHE WAS THE ONE IN CHARGE OF DOING THIS

Lee Oswald-- YES. HE ONCE TOOK ONE BATCH OVER TO CRIPPLED CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL AND MET HER THERE BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO GET THEM FROM HER APARTMENT...

Alton Ochsner --- HE WAS IN CHARGE OF THE PROJECT. DR. SHERMAN WAS AFRAID HE WAS BEING EXPLOITED AND DIDN'T REALIZE THE FULL SIGNIFICANCE, THAT OTHERS COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON THIS MATERIAL. BUT HE KEPT HIMSELF WHITE AS SNOW, THOUGH HE WASN'T. DR. MARY DIDN'T TRUST HIM.

David Ferrie --YES

Bill Monahan -- THAT IS MONAGHAN.... NO, HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING EXCEPT THEY NEEDED ME FOR LAB WORK ON COMPANY TIME AND HE HAD TO DO WORK I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO, WHICH IRRITATED
HIM.

They used radiation to mutate their monkey viruses!

Was Judyth the technician in David Ferrie’s underground medical laboratory? She admits that she was, despite the obvious legal, ethical and security consequences of doing so. Were they irradiating cancer-causing viruses to develop a biological weapon? Judyth participated in that operation and said that their use of radiation was both deliberate and central to the design of the project. Was the operation in David Ferrie’s apartment connected to operation at the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital? Judyth says it was.

The consequences of these statements are terrifying!

Frankly, I would have preferred to have been wrong. It appears that I was not. These were very dark deeds indeed. They may have been “the dark deed” whose price the population of the planet still pays today. I doubt this connection will ever be proven to the satisfaction of the critics. But they do not control us nor the truth!

At least I understand why my father was so upset about, when he learned what was going on down at the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital.

So we are left with questions. Questions that Judyth Vary Baker cannot answer. Questions I cannot answer. Questions that deserve better answers. Questions like:

* Which monkey viruses did their radiation genetically alter? Was SIV one?[17]

* What happened to their collection of mutated monkey viruses after Judyth left?

* Did any of these mutated monkey viruses “escape” into the human population?

* Will Judyth’s price for clearing Lee Oswald’s name be the sacrifice of her own?

Fortunately we can still ask questions like these. One has to wonder what will happen if we ever stop?

[1] CBS’s legendary anchorman Dan Rather was part of 60M management team at the time. Rather was a staunch supporter of the Oswald-did-it-alone theory and is infamous for his comment about the Zapruder film which stated President Kennedy’s head had been thrown violently “forward” by the fatal head shot from the rear. Since the public had not yet been allowed to see the film, there was no one to dispute the accuracy of Rather’s comment. Now that the film has been viewed by millions, everyone knows Kennedy’s head was thrown “backwards.” How could Rather have been so wrong? Was 60M the best place to take Judyth’s story?

[2] A woman was introduced to me (and Barbara) as “Judyth Vary Baker” at a party near Tulane’s campus in uptown New Orleans in October 1972. The exact location was on Pitt St. near the corner of Dufoucher St. behind the Ladder Library on St. Charles Avenue. It is important to point out that our invitation to this party was the result of an argument I had several days earlier concerning the David Ferrie’s underground medical laboratory and whether viruses could actually cause cancer in humans. My opponent was with a graduate student (a young man from Latin America) who had previously made comments to Barbara about Dr. Ochsner’s connections to Nazi scientists in South America. (See the “College Daze” chapter concerning this earlier event.) At Barbara’s suggestion, we went as a group to a cafeteria on Tulane’s campus for coffee. Several other graduate students joined us there. What began as a polite discussion about local lore and Jim Garrison’s investigation into the JFK assassination descended into an argument about the scientific accuracy of my comments about cancer-causing viruses. The fact that I said that it was his hero, Dr. Ochsner, who had said that “sex could cause cancer” was a particularly volatile point. Several days later Barbara complained to me that since that conversation in the cafeteria, none of her fellow graduate students had spoken to her. She said to me: “You have to make up your mind whether you are going to be an expert on the Garrison Investigation or whether you want to be my boyfriend.” I assured her that I was more interested in being with her than in discussing the JFK assassination and agreed not to discuss it around her friends. Several days after that water-shed conversation, Barbara announced that my “performance in the cafeteria” had gotten us invited to a party. Barbara was anxious to attend the party in hopes of regaining her social standing amongst her graduate school colleagues. She invited me to accompany her to the party on the condition that I could “control myself.” Therefore, when the hostess of this party told Barbara that she had been a friend of Lee Harvey Oswald when he lived in New Orleans and invited me to discuss the Garrison Investigation with her, I asked Barbara if we could leave. Barbara agreed, and we immediately left the party. Two weeks later, this “Judyth Vary Baker” contacted Barbara and invited us (as a couple) to dinner at her house (without any other guests). I reminded Barbara that this woman had said that she was a friend of Lee Harvey Oswald and said that I did not want to go to dinner at her house. Barbara declined the invitation. When 60M said they were investigating “Judy Vary Baker,” I thought it was the same person. It was not. Was I being set up to discredit the real Judy Vary Baker should she ever emerge from hiding? Or was I given her name so that I would recognize it when she did? I don’t know. For a more detailed account of this incident, see my video interview by Jim Marrs posted on http://www.JFKmurdersolved.com.

[3] I should add that until I saw the 60M documents, that I did not know that her middle named was spelled “Vary.” But I remembered wondering when I first heard her name back in 1972 if her middle name was “Veri” (like veritas, meaning truth) or “Vari” (like various or variable, meaning multiple or changing.)

[4] Langley is the small town in Virginia where the headquarters of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency is located.

[5] Judyth’s knowledge of and personal involvement with the subject of cancer research is remarkable to this day. Upon seeing a 2006 news article about a break-through in cancer research involving a mouse whose immune system was extremely good at resisting cancer, Judyth sent me an email which said: “We could have cured cancer…decades ago... and here you see that macrophages in mice do it --- and yes, just as I have claimed they could...This can be turned into an efficient and cheap way to combat cancer. Oh, if only I could have convinced somebody to just give me a chance to direct a lab! …And also because they are still just using murine (mouse) macrophages, a first step that I knew would work way back in 1961. Oh, I feel as if my whole life has been wasted! Have to admit I just sat down after reading this and wept tears of anger and frustration for the millions who have suffered and died from cancer, especially children, and I knew the key, but my mouth had been stopped up with clay. I cannot stop weeping... This is awful, to feel such anger and helplessness. Yet happy that at last they should be able to see what to do...”

[6] Baker, Judyth Vary. Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by his Lover, Trafford, Victoria, BC, Canada, 2006.

[7] The same document was shown on The History Channel in 2003, The Men Who Killed Kennedy, “The Love Affair,” November 1963, produced by Nigel Turner in association with British Independent Television.

[8] On their return trips from Reily, Judyth and Lee exhibited more caution. Though they rode the same bus, they did not sit together. They would ride the bus past their apartments, past the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital, and get off at Audubon Park where they could speak and socialize freely. Then they would ride the Magazine bus back (the opposite direction) to their respective apartments. In an interesting aside, Judyth mentioned to me that she and Lee even rolled down “Monkey Hill” during one of their visits to Audubon Park. Monkey Hill is a 25 foot pile of dirt which is covered with grass. Rolling down Monkey Hill was a great tradition for kids in New Orleans. I did it many times as a child while playing a game called “King on the Mountain.” New Orleans is so flat that the City built this artificial hill in Audubon Park so that the local children would know what a hill was. The sight of dozens of school-aged children rolling down the hill is why they named it Monkey Hill, because we all looked like a bunch of monkeys.

[9] Technically Oswald’s employment interview was conducted by Mr. Prechter who was head of Personnel. However, as Reily’s Vice-President in charge of Finance and Security, it was Monaghan (the ex-FBI agent) that had to made the final decision concerning who to hire. Monaghan apparently did not think that hiring “a defector” who had lived in Russia and held an “undesirable discharge” from the Marines would be a security problem for the virulently anti-Communist company.

[10] While meeting Banister satisfied Judyth, it does not convince me, since Banister was also working with Marcello. The larger question is “Was Marcello working with the government?” And the ultimate question becomes “Who is the government?”

[11] I emphasize that I do not know of any document, testimony or evidence which suggests that William Reily personally (nor his company as an entity) knew about Ochsner’s secret medical project nor that his employees were being used to develop a biological weapon while they were on the company clock. Nothing herein should be interpreted as implying such. What is known that Reily was fiercely anti-Communist, a member of INCA, and that he provided financial support to some of Ochsner’s political activities, but this can easily be explained by the financial interest of the local business community and the political events of the day. William Reily should be consider as innocent as Oswald, since neither have had a day in court.

[12] Lee Oswald’s family had been Mafia connected since he was a child. Lee attended parties at Marcello’s house and was remembered from those days by people that Judyth met. Lee also worked as an errand boy running between Marcello’s clubs and restaurants. Lee personally met with Mafia boss Carlos Marcello on several occasions in 1963. Judyth saw Lee collect fists-full of cash from the manager of Marcello’s Town & County Motel and deliver it to his uncle who was involved in Marcello’s gambling operations.

[13] The secretary was a temp. Ochsner’s regular secretary (a nurse) was on vacation at the time.

[14] Jack Ruby visited David Ferrie’s apartment one day when Judyth and Lee were there. Ferrie introduced him to Judyth as Sparky Rubenstein. Judyth was surprised that Ferrie briefed Ruby on their bio-weapon project. (Why not? They all work for Marcello.) Ruby recognized Lee and said that he used to see him a parties when he was a boy. This means that Jack Ruby knew about Oswald’s connection to the underground medical laboratory when he shot him, and he knew about the cancer cocktail that could be used to silence him as he awaited trial for Oswald’s murder. It is no wonder he wanted to get out of Dallas. And it is no wonder that the Warren Commission did not accept his offer to talk in exchange for safer accommodations. Jack Ruby told Al Maddox (his Dallas Police guard) that he had been injected with cancer cells. Maddox has said that the doctor that gave Ruby injections came from Chicago. Maddox was present at Parkland Hospital when Ruby died of an embolism caused by galloping lung cancer.

[15] Publicly, I have always taken the position that Oswald’s guilt or innocence is ultimately irrelevant to whether an underground medical laboratory in New Orleans was using mutated monkey viruses to develop a biological weapon and whether that biological weapon is responsible for epidemics we see today. My neutrality on Oswald is a position that has become increasingly difficult for me to maintain. To my eyes, Lee was the perfect patsy - one that could not be investigated without getting into his connections to the Mafia, to the CIA, to Ochsner, to the particle accelerator, to the biological weapon and (most importantly) to his ultimate sponsor - the person who helped “the defector” return to the United States from the Soviet Union with his wife and child at the height of the Cold War? Who was Oswald’s ultimate sponsor? Is the need to hide this key piece of information the reason why Lee Harvey Oswald’s tax returns have never been made public? Was it Marcello using his influence on the Louisiana politicians that he was so famous for bribing? Or was it Bobby Kennedy himself - who was U.S. Attorney General at the time Oswald returned and had the power to declare that he was still a citizen and allow him to return. Both of these sponsors could have arranged for the State Department to lend him the money to pay for his family’s transportation back to the U.S. These are the type of penetrating questions that “lone nut” was constructed to suppress.. They are the questions we need to ask.

[16] It was Dr. Howard Platzman who took Judyth Vary Baker to 60 Minutes and later to me. He deserves credit.

[17] SIV is the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus which was one of several monkey viruses known to have contaminated the polio vaccine. The more carcinogenic SV-40 has gotten most of the press. SIV (a single strand RNA retro virus) is considerably smaller than SV-40 (a double stranded DNA virus). The technology of the day was not able to filter SIV out from the viral extracts. Further, researchers of the day did not consider retro-viruses dangerous so they basically ignored them. AIDS has taught us how dangerous retro-viruses can be. If “the project” in New Orleans was intentionally exposing a SV-40 to radiation, they may have unintentionally exposed SIV to radiation at the same time. Simply stated, HIV-1 is a mutated form of SIV. Did the mutation which changed SIV into HIV-1 occur when they exposed SV-40 to radiation? Was this the moment of conception of AIDS? Would this artificially induced mutation explain why HIV-1 is mutating so rapidly? Why it is behaving so “unnaturally?” If you are a scientist involved in AIDS research, these are the questions I would like you to consider.

[James H. Fetzer]

ANOTHER REPLY TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE TO USE SLINGS AND ARROWS

Let me see if I got this straight. Doug rejects her because she got everything
right. Jack rejects her because she got something wrong. So which is it? The
endless carping about Judyth will go on and on and on. Each of us must make
our own judgments about what she has to tell us. I stand with Nigel Turner, Ed
Haslam, Howard Platzman, Jim Marrs, "60 Minutes", and others who have come
to believe in her. I have offered dozens, even hundreds, of reasons for having
that opinion. Ed Haslam has given her a thorough vetting, where Judyth fills in
crucial missing pieces of the puzzle that was New Orleans in the early 1960s. I
believe in her and, I assume, at this point in time, no one needs to wonder why.

Having created this thread, I have read every post and responded to most. The
global impression I have derived is that many have opinions, usually ones that
are detrimental to Judyth, but very few have well-founded opinions. Let me use
Jack as an illustration. He has posted around a dozen (12) complaints about her,
which I have studied. The number of well-founded complaints has turned out to
be zero (0), which means that Jack has utterly failed to discredit her. The date
of the meeting with Ochsner, which may be his best bet, has already been met.
That date may have been mistaken, but the event took place, just as described.
The other attacks from Viklund, Junkkarinen, Lifton, Weldon, and others do not,
in my opinion, warrant serious concern, since many of them, though not all, are
of the variety "I just can see how . . . " or "Who would believe that . . .?" variety.



As Howard observed, Junkkarinen has been the most persistent and also among
the most beneficial. She unearthed the abstract to a study Judyth had done as
a science student. No matter how much Junkkarinen might want to minimize its
import, it demonstrates that she was doing sophisticated research on cancer at a
precocious age. Indeed, she had made discoveries about cancer that were far
in advance of those known to the National Institutes of Health and the American
Cancer Society. She was not on the radar screen or known for her research to
the American people, however, which made her an ideal candidate to participate
on covert cancer research projects that were being conducted in New Orleans.
She was lured with promises of fellowships and med school. The rest is history.

That anyone at this late date should harbor any doubts about (i) whether or not
Judyth was an extraordinary science student in high school, (ii) that Judyth was
recruited by Alton Ochsner to do research in New Orleans, (iii) that she met Lee
Oswald early on (which appears to have been arranged), (iv) that she worked on
cancer research with David Ferrie, Lee Oswald, and Mary Sherman, M.D., using a
secret lab with monkeys and mice, and (v) that she complained to Ochsner with
respect to conducting an experiment with a prisoner without consent that killed
him, and (vi) that Ochsner closed down the operation and had Lee transferred to
Dallas. All of this--and more--in my view have been established beyond doubt.
And many additional details have been presented in this thread & on this forum.



I have interviewed Judyth (twice), I have read and studied hundreds of emails,
I have posted a large portion of those here (often with supporting photographs,
documents, or other records), I have prepared blogs about Judyth and others
about Ed Haslam, I have published a chapter from the revised edition of MARY,
FERRIE, AND THE MONKEY VIRUS, I have linked to "The Love Affair" and the
testimony of Anna Lewis, who, with her husband, David, double-dated with Lee
and Judyth, and much, much more, including critiques of various problems she
and I and others have found with HARVEY & LEE, some so blatant that I would
not expect a newbie to commit them. Yet this entire thread remains silent. We
do have a double-standard: believe anything John Armstrong says, no matter
how outlandish; disbelieve anything Judyth says, no matter how well-founded.

This has turned into the original amateur hour, where one pseudo-researcher
is trying to out do another. I suspect that my background for research is longer
and stronger than that of anyone else here. My 29th book appears next month.
I spent 35 years teaching logic, critical thinking, and scientific reasoning. None
of you can claim stronger credentials for evaluating evidence and arguments. I
am convinced that Judyth is "the real deal". When I no longer hold that view, I
shall be certain to announce it here. In the meanwhile, I highly recommend that
some of you study some of the sources that I have recommended, including, of
course, DR. MARY'S MONKEY. It would be good if you knew something about the
case and the mass of evidence supporting what Judyth has been trying to tell us.



The kitchen in the lab where much of her research with David Ferrie was conducted

[quote name='Jack White' post='190210' date='Apr 20 2010, 04:01 PM']
From Dealy Plaza Echo, by John Delane Williams (review of Haslam book) with
approval and comments by Judyth Vary Baker:


Time Lines for Judyth and Lee in New Orleans, 1963

Judyth Vary Baker in New Orleans, 1963

April 20: Judyth arrives in New Orleans.

April 26: Judyth meets Oswald in front of the post office when Judyth went there to get a
letter from her fiancé, Robert Baker.

April 27: Oswald introduced Judyth to (Dr.) David Ferrie, who was said to be a colleague
of Dr. Mary Sherman, a noted cancer researcher. Oswald introduced Judyth to Guy
Banister, who confirmed that Oswald was working on the anti-Castro project. Then
Oswald took Judyth to meet Alton Ochsner, M.D., an internationally known physician
working with cancer patients and cancer research. First Oswald went in by himself, and
then he invited Judyth in and introduced her to Dr. Ochsner.[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

Jack,

Give me a break! Have you read ANY of Judyth's posts on this thread?
It was the day after watching "JFK" that Judyth decided that she had an
obligation to speak out. If you know CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE, then
you know that even adult, accomplished physicians were counseled to
keep their mouths shut! Judyth kept quiet, until she could no longer.
If you had been reading her posts, you would know. But you haven't.

This is yet another in a seemingly endless stream of largely meaning-
less posts. You are running away from the evidence. I have posted
proof after proof that she is genuine and knows whereof she speaks.
You are hardheaded and ignore ALL OF IT. You prefer (what may well
be) the fantasy of HARVEY & LEE over the demonstrated testimony of
a living witness who knew Lee H. Oswald, a link to our historical past.

You mind is closed tight like a vault, when there is so much to learn.
In case you don't grasp it, the agency is satisfied with the equivalent:
character assassination. If you had read my psy ops expert's posts,
it should have been obvious. Judyth is a TI (targeted individual) for
the very reason that she knows too much. The attacks upon her on
various forums have been intended to accomplish that very objective.

I can't believe that someone as knowledgeable and discerning as you
would not have a better handle on what has been taking place on this
very thread. You are contributing toward the agency's goals and, to
my astonishment, even congratulating some of those who have been
working overtime to discreit her. WAKE UP, JACK! If Judyth were
the flake you take her to be, who would care? She has been under
assault here and elsewhere precisely because she IS "the real deal"!

Jim

[quote name='Jack White' post='190229' date='Apr 20 2010, 08:37 PM']
I have just come inside for lunch after two hours of lawn mowing, weeding
and fertilizing. While mowing, this thought came to me.

It is widely believed (rightfully so I think), that both the CIA (and Mafia)
take pleasure in terminating any inconvenient witness with extreme prejudice.
Especially in the JFK case, but there are many other examples.

If Judyth is such a danger of exposing some covert operation, why is she
still alive? Never mind that she is in "exile" because it was too dangerous
in the US. The CIA can wipe someone away anywhere if the world if they
want. The Mafia too.

So why has a hit not been issued? This is not an idle question. If the lady knows
too much, she would be long ago dead.

Jack[/quote]

[James H. Fetzer]

JIM OFFERS SOME OBSERVATIONS ABOUT THE EXCHANGES ON THIS THREAD

Fascinating how Barb is orchestrating the opposition! Great work, Junkkarinen.
I imagine a count would show that you have posted more attacks on Judyth than
anyone else here. My concerns about Weldon, Lifton, and White have been that
I expected much more of them as experienced students of the assassination. As
for most of the rest, the one who has impressed me the most is Michael Hogan,
who has displayed a degree of detachment and objectivity missing from most of
the rest, many of whom are obvious followers, who are willing to believe Barb.
Some of them may eventually figure out what has been going on here. Anyone
who wants to understand this better really needs to read DR. MARY'S MONKEY.

Having spent much of my professional life working with these three, I've been
acutely disappointed at their closed-mindedness about Judyth. Jack, I take it,
regards her as such a threat that he prides himself on not even reading posts
from her. Lifton dismissed her on the basis of (what I consider to have been)
a phonological blunder in failing to consider the difference between "Cancun"
and "Kankun" and, at this point in time, refuses to share the "evidence" upon
which he based his dismissal with me. Weldon appears to have been offended
because, some time back, Judyth was not inclined to talk with him. Given her
experience in the past, I hardly blame her, especially given his performance in
condemning her without having had any other contact with her. Astounding!

Not to suggest that Barb does not understand the nature of the ad hominem
fallacy, but that requires an attack on the person (by suggesting that s/he is
an alcoholic, for example, whose testimony is therefore false or alleging some
one is a fantasist, who should not be believed) rather than evaluating their
arguments on the basis of logic and evidence. If you read what I have just
written about them, you will see that I am faulting them for ignoring relevant
evidence (Jack), leaping to conclusions without sufficient investigation (Lifton),
or impugning a witness based upon experiences with persons other than the
witness in this case (Weldon). These are failures to establish the right kind
of logical links between premises and conclusions and are not ad hominems.

As a convenient illustration of the quality of reasoning of Judyth's critics, take
the latest from Jack: "Doug Weldon, David Lifton, Jack White have been under
assault here. Does that make us the real deal?" First, the critiques to which
they have been subjected are mild compared to the attacks they have made
upon Judyth. Second, from the beginning, none of them was willing to take
seriously that Judyth was genuine, no matter how much evidence either she
or I presented. Third, his argument is a grossly faulty analogy. No one has
raised questions about whether or not they are "the real deal". The kinds of
assaults to which Judyth has been subjected--constant harassment, attempts
upon her life, and such--suggests that she is a TI for multiple reasons, none
of which apply to Weldon, Lifton, or White. Jack's argument is entirely lame.

To simplify access to some of the basics, here is a very good place to begin:

http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/04/...onkey.html

FRIDAY, APRIL 9, 2010

Edward Haslam - DR. MARY'S MONKEY

Those who are most critical about Judyth Vary Baker appear to be those who know the least about her. It is therefore fortunate indeed that the author of DR. MARY'S MONKEY, Edward Haslam, has spend some 1,000 hours questioning her and establishing the core authenticity of her story. His book, which appeared in 2007, and my interview with him on "The Real Deal", which is being broadcast this evening, provide a context for understanding how she came into contact with Lee Harvey Oswald in the first place. It is therefore my great pleasure to present a chapter from Ed's book, which is indispensable for understanding what was going on in the city at the time, which had more to do with an extraordinary cancer-research project than it did with a personal relationship.

[PHOTO ON BLOG] The late Jim Garrison, former DA of New Orleans, describes his investigation of the Kennedy assassination and his subsequent arrest of Clay Shaw. Some of Garrison's assistant DAs contribute to this story.

Judyth has much more to tell us regarding some of the murkiest aspects of assassination research, events which were taking place in New Orleans during 1963. As Ed Haslam has explained in his book and during the interview, Judyth and Lee were collaborating with David Ferrie and Dr. Mary Sherman in a project that evolved from the necesssity to develop an anti-cancer-virus cure that became crucial when it was discovered that the polio vaccine being use to inoculate around 100,000,000 children and young adults was contaminated with the SV-40 virus, derived from the incubation of batches for study in the kidneys of Rhesus monkeys, into the development of a bioweapon to take out officially designated targets. It is a fascinating and remarkable story, which I am only now beginning to piece together.

I myself have been slow to appreciate what was going on and that their relationship appears to have been arranged in order for Lee to assist Judyth with the practical aspects of life in relation to the threats and promises of the New Orleans environment, where many dark secrets and covert activities linked Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Carlos Marcello, and Lee Oswald together in anti-Castro activities. Meanwhile, David Ferrie, Mary Sherman, and Alton Ochsner had been atempting to fix a cure for polio that was more dangerous than the disease, but by the time Judyth was on the scene, attention had sifted to bioweapon development. After all, as Judyth has observed, what doctor would assume that a cancer developing in a person was anything but natural? Containimated vaccines continued to be used until the 1990s.

Judyth has added that research on a cure for the contaminated vaccine had largely subsided by the time she became actively involved and that emphasis was focused at that time on the development of radidly-developing cancers for use a bioweapons to eliminate enemies of the state, initially including Fidel Castro but probably employed on Jack Ruby as well, because he "knew too much" about activities the government preferred not to share with the public. You will be as stunned as I to learn how much more was involved in the relationship between Lee and Judyth than has been presented on this very thread, where the personal has overshadowed the scientific. Research on an unexpected problem in the "cure for polio" and the development of a bioweapon are the crucial elements that we have been missing.

[AUDIO ON BLOG] DR. MARY'S MONKEY - Ed Haslam interviewed on "The Real Deal" with Jim Fetzer (6 April 2010):

[NOTE: Here is an extract from Ed Haslam's first book on these matters.]

MARY, FARRIE, & THE MONKEY VIRUS
The Witness / Chapter 17
By Edward Haslam

In 1995, on the eve of publication of the 1st edition of this book, a fellow writer cautioned me “You have everything except a witness.”
Five years later, the phone rang. It was 60 Minutes, the CBS News TV show. They were investigating a woman who said that she had been in the laboratory I wrote about in my book. In the laboratory in David Ferrie’s apartment. Did I want to talk to them?
Frankly, it was not a good time to ask me that question. In 2000 I was extremely busy doing other things in my professional life and was not anxious to get drawn back into the story that had dominated so many years of my life.

On the other hand, I respected the power of the 60M microphone. Whatever they said, whether right or wrong, critical or favorable, would be heard by millions of people and would shape the public’s understanding of events which I cared about. I reluctantly decided to participate enough to keep an eye on the situation. We agreed to meet for an off-camera interview. They sent me background materials to review, and one of their investigators came to see me – a lawyer. Ironically, it was 60M that brought me the witness that I had been missing.

After reviewing the materials which they sent me (which did not include any of the photos of the woman nor the evidence that I will be showing you shortly), they asked me to comment. My opening remark was: “Well, she needs to be written up. Either in the history books or the medical books. At the moment, I am not sure which one.” Neither were they.

60M’s interest in this woman was fueled by the sensational aspects of her story – that she had met Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in the summer of 1963, that they had fallen in love and had an affair, despite the fact that both were married to other people at the time. Any TV executive could see the blockbuster potential for a sizzling story built around the vortex of love, sex, politics and the accused assassin of JFK set in America’s most exotic city. They eagerly flew their investigators to New Orleans and interviewed Oswald’s girlfriend for hours.[1]

60M asked Oswald’s girl friend all the logical questions: “Where are you from? Why were you in New Orleans? Where did you work? Where did you live? How did you meet Lee? What did you do together? Did you ever hear the subject of killing JFK discussed?” And Oswald’s girlfriend kept answering them. Before long 60M realized that their sizzling little romance between a beautiful young woman and a soon-to-be-accused assassin had morphed into an 800 pound gorilla with “serious politics” written all over it. The adulteress sitting in front of them stated that she and Lee Harvey Oswald stood side-by-side in an underground medical laboratory located in David Ferrie’s apartment on Louisiana Avenue Parkway in New Orleans and that she was the laboratory technician that handled the cancer-causing monkey viruses which were being used to develop a biological weapon for the purpose of killing Fidel Castro. To put the icing on the cake, the entire project was secretly directed by the famous Dr. Alton Ochsner (former President of the American Cancer Society) and supervised by a prestigious cancer researcher named Dr. Mary Sherman who worked for Dr. Ochsner at his hospital. Further, after successfully killing numerous monkeys with their new biological weapon, this group had tested it on a human subject in a mental hospital, killing the human. Lethal human experiments! Leaders of American medicine and the accused assassin of the American President involved together in developing a biological weapon! Can you hear 60M’s signature sound effect ticking in the background?

As the dimensions of the story grew, so did 60M’s demands for hard evidence. 60M was not about to risk their credibility over an unsupported story involving a homemade biological weapon and the accused assassin of the President without hard evidence. This is when they contacted me, because I had already written a book that sounded very similar. Yes, they had my book, but no, they had not read it yet. I insisted that the 60M investigator read it, every-word, cover-to-cover, which she said that she did on her flight back to New York. No, I did not have the hard evidence about Judyth they were looking for. But I never said that I did. From my perspective, I was particularly concerned 60M could discredit her story as a means of discrediting mine. Such were my initial thoughts.

The next problem came when I read her name in the documents they had sent: Judyth Vary Baker. The problem was that I already knew someone named Judyth Vary Baker. And she had said that she was a close friend of Lee Harvey Oswald. My girlfriend Barbara and I went to a party at her house in New Orleans in 1972.[2]

When it became clear that the woman brought to me by 60M was not the same person I met in 1972, I realized that I had met two separate women claiming to be “Judyth Vary Baker” who claimed to have known “Lee Oswald.” Simply said, one had to be an impostor. With the information available to me at that time, I could not tell 60M which one was the impostor. I hoped they would be able to tell me.

At that point, 60M pulled the plug on the Judyth story. The rank-and-file CBS producers and investigators had worked hard on the story. They were extremely disappointed by the decision from their bosses to terminate the story. One insider forwarded me an email written by a senior 60M executive in which he stated that 60M had spend more time and money investigating Judyth’s story than they had on any story in their 20 year history. To refuse to air the story after making that kind of investment was difficult decision for them. It makes one wonder “Who really made 60M’s decision to abort?” and “Why?”

After the 60M debacle, I contacted Judyth Vary Baker directly. I was curious about this unusual woman and wanted to learn more about her. If she could show me that she was the real Judyth Vary Baker, then it meant the other Judyth Vary Baker that I had met in 1972 was the impostor. This raised some very interesting questions: Why would someone have gone to the trouble to impersonate Baker back in 1972? How did they know who she was? How did they know about her connection to Oswald? Why was I invited to her party? Why did they tell me her name?

Yes, the 1972 incident did cause confusion and distrust amongst the 60M team. Their only evidence was my word and my memory. But that was their perspective. I, on the other hand, was the one who was there. I knew what I saw. I knew what I heard. And I remembered the names clearly.[3] The fact that 60M had a real live person who said that her name was Judyth Vary Baker and that she had known Lee Oswald made the 1972 “Judyth Vary Baker” incident even more interesting to me. I decided to learn more about this new “Judyth Vary Baker” to figure out why someone had wanted me to know who she was back in 1972.

In 2001, I happened to live in Bradenton, Florida, the small town on the west coast of Florida where Judyth was raised. When Judyth said that she would be visiting Bradenton soon to see her aging mother, we agreed to meet.

I took the day off from work so that I would not be distracted by business matters. We met in the lobby of the central library and drove to a local restaurant where we could talk. Judyth picked a restaurant where she knew the owner. When we got there, she introduced me to the owner who remembered her fondly, and we were shown a table in the back where we could talk. For the next several hours, Judyth displayed binders of documents she had collected and neatly organized over the years and told me her story, page by page. It was only then that I really began to understand the dimensions of what she was saying. Finally, I looked at her carefully, studying her pensive blue eyes and her coke-bottle thick glasses, and said “You are telling me that you personally stood in David Ferrie’s apartment with Lee Oswald at your side, day after day, and worked with cancer-causing monkey viruses so that you could develop a biological weapon to kill Fidel Castro?”

“Yes,” she said.

I felt that Judyth’s story was an important development. So I called the writer who said that I had “everything except a witness” and told him about Judyth. His book had been on the JFK assassination. He assured me that Judyth was a walking-talking misinformation machine sent by CIA to cause chaos and confusion amongst the JFK assassination research community and that the documents that I had seen were probably forgeries.

“If these documents are fake,” I countered, “They are the best forgeries I have ever seen. I’m talking about 30 year old newspapers and faded ink.”

“Langley does great work,” he quipped.[4]

“You once told me that my only problem was that I didn’t have a witness,” I retorted. “Now my problem seems to be that I have a witness.”

I begin my discussion of Judyth this way to show how skeptical I was of her. It was clear to me that Judyth’s road to acceptance was going to be difficult one. Was she crazy? Was she an impostor? Had she made up her story after reading my book? Would people think Judyth and I were some sort of tag team that were secretly coordinating our stories? These are fair questions for the average person who has heard her story from others and has not seen her evidence presented properly. If you quarter some of these thoughts, know that I did, too. It is reasonable to be suspicious of claims that challenge our understanding of history. But it is unreasonable to ignore evidence because it might change your mind or challenge the positions that you have taken in public. History shows us new information is rarely welcome. And Judyth has new information.

It’s time to get to the core questions about Judyth Vary Baker. I consider the three most important questions to be:

1. Is “this Judyth” the real Judyth Vary Baker from Bradenton, Florida? Or is she the impostor?

2. Did Judyth know Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in 1963? If she does not have reasonable proof to support this claim, then there is little point in pondering her story.

3. Was Judyth trained to handle cancer-causing viruses before she went to New Orleans in 1963? If 1 and 2 above are true, then this point would qualify her as a suspect for “the technician” that I wrote about in “The Pandemic” chapter.

If the answers to all three questions are “yes,” then we need to pay attention to what Judyth has to say, even if it conflicts with both the official and the unofficial stories concerning Oswald and his role (whatever it was) in the assassination of JFK. Even if it disagrees with the self-appointed Oswald experts. And even if it disagrees with some of the things I originally said in this book. Let’s tackle these questions right now - one at a time.

1. Is she the real Judyth Vary Baker from Bradenton, Florida?

Judyth had shown me a collection of newspaper articles when we met in 2001. Several had photos of her. Most of the articles were published in The Bradenton Herald, one of the local newspapers in the Bradenton, Florida.

A year later, in February 2002, I started working for The Bradenton Herald. My role was to handle their market research materials, but my position gave me access to their news library and their microfilm collection. This microfilm collection had been copied about 10 years earlier, and the copy had been given to the Bradenton Public Library. The public could see the microfilm collection at the public library, but the original microfilm was kept in the news department’s research library on the upper floor of The Bradenton Herald and was not open to the public. No one could have anticipated that I would start working for The Bradenton Herald and would have access to their original microfilm collection. If I could find Judyth’s newspaper articles there in the off-limits microfilm collection, I could settle the “forgeries” issue once-and-for-all. I got Judyth to send me a list of publication dates for the articles she had.

Yes, I found all of The Bradenton Herald newspaper articles that Judyth had shown me in the microfilm library of The Bradenton Herald. She had also shown me two other newspaper articles which I will be discussing later in this chapter.

So the answer to our first question is “Yes, she is definitely the real Judyth Vary Baker from Bradenton, Florida.” Her maiden name was Judyth Anne Vary, and she was frequently referred to as Judy in the press of the day. She is easy to recognize in the photos. Bradenton was proud of her. “Judy” was going to find the cure for cancer.[5] She presents copious evidence to support all of this in her book.[6]

2. Did Judyth know Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans in 1963?

It might help the reader to know there has never been any dispute over the fact that the person that the press has referred to as Lee Harvey Oswald worked at a coffee company in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. This is reported by the Warren Commission and acknowledged throughout the JFK assassination research community. In fact, I have never heard anyone dispute it. Beyond that, I personally heard Boatner Reily, later the president of that same coffee company, state that they (the Wm. B. Reily Coffee Company) had turned over their employment records of Lee Harvey Oswald to the U.S. Government immediately after the assassination. What is less clear to the casual reader is whether Lee Oswald worked for the Standard Coffee Company or for the Wm. B. Reilly Coffee Company, since the names differ on various documents. Both companies were owned and operated by William B. Reily and his family, so the difference in the names is not important. Lee Oswald worked for Reily. So did Judyth Vary Baker.
Here is her W2 tax form submitted by Wm. B. Reily & Co. to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service which proves that she did.

This document was provided to me directly by Judyth Vary Baker who scanned it from the original. I accept it as authentic.[7] I have blocked out the last four digits of her Social Security number to protect her privacy. I did, however, compare that social security number with a variety of other documents which Judyth provided to me, such as her college transcripts, and I assure the reader that the numbers match.

The name on the document is Judyth Anne Baker. The person we now know as Judyth Vary Baker was known as Judyth Anne Vary until she married Robert Baker and became Judyth Anne Baker in 1963. Back then it was not common for women to incorporate their maiden names into their married names.

W2 forms are mailed out in January of the following year - in this case, in January 1964 for the 1963 tax year. The address on the form shows where the form was mailed, not where the person lived during their employment. Judyth left New Orleans in September 1963 after her employment with Reily ended and returned to Florida. The Ft. Walton address on Judyth’s W2 form was her husband’s family’s residence which he used as his official address while attending the University of Florida in Gainesville.

The amount of money shown on the W2 form is consistent with Judyth’s pay stubs from Reily, which I also have copies of. It should be emphasized that Judyth was referred to Reily by the same employment agency that referred Lee Oswald and that she started work on the same day. Judyth worked directly for Reily’s Vice–President William I. Monaghan, an ex-FBI agent who later testified to the Warren Commission about Oswald. But Monaghan did not mention Judyth to the Warren Commission nor did he mention that another person was hired on the same day that Oswald was hired.

A simple gumshoe investigation a murder suspect would have started with friends and associates, particularly at the place of employment. A gumshoe investigation of Oswald would have checked out Reily Coffee, found Judyth, and realized that she was close to Oswald. They started on the same day and arrived at work together each morning, though they frequently clocked in at different times, due to Lee’s other activities in the neighborhood. We even find Judyth’s initials on Lee’s timecards. Figuring out their connection would not have been difficult. Consider these obvious points. Neither Lee nor Judyth owned a car. Reily Coffee was located on Magazine Street. Both Judyth and Lee lived along the Magazine Street bus route and rode the bus to work. Day after day, Lee would get on the bus at the 4900 block of Magazine. Several blocks later Judyth would get on at the corner of Marengo Street and sit next to Lee. Bus drivers recognize their regular customers. The bus driver could have easily confirmed that Judyth and Lee sat together every morning, read the newspaper, and talked - and that they got off the bus together near the Reily Coffee Company. This would not have been difficult for an investigator to sort out.[8]

Who was this young woman who talked to the accused assassin of the President on a daily basis? What did she know about him? What did she know about the assassination? Did she have prior knowledge? These are good questions, and a competent investigator would have asked them. So why were they not asked?

Did the Warren Commission send in a gumshoe to investigate Oswald at Reily? No, they asked the “ex-FBI” agent that hired Oswald about him.[9] And that ex-FBI agent did not mention that his own secretary, whom he also hired, started on the same day and arrived at his front door with Oswald every morning. How convenient! This raises the question: Did Monaghan knowingly withhold information from the Warren Commission? If he did, was he instructed to do so? And by whom? Was Judyth being protected in order to protect the bio-weapon project and the people behind it?

Several years after the Warren Commission “investigation,” the investigators working for New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison tracked down another young woman named Anna Lewis, a waitress who worked at Thompson’s Restaurant - a favorite gathering spot for the anti-Castro crowd around Lafayette Square in downtown New Orleans. At the time, Anna was married to David Lewis, who had worked for another “ex-FBI” agent Guy Banister. Today we have video testimony from Anna Lewis recorded in 2003 and made available on the internet by Dutch JFK researcher Wim Dankbaar. In this interview, Anna clearly states that she knew Lee Oswald and that Oswald was a regular customer at Thompson’s in 1963. Further, she states that she and her husband socialized with Lee and Judyth together on a number of occasions. More importantly Anna Lewis admits that she lied to District Attorney Garrison and his investigators when they asked her about Oswald. Had Anna Lewis told Garrison the truth, Garrison could have easily tracked down Judyth. Garrison was already suspicious of Ochsner and his role in the media exposure of Oswald. If Garrison had had access to Judyth, and if Judyth told Garrison what she now tells us--that she and Lee were working on a biological weapon project under the direction of Dr. Alton Ochsner--Garrison’s investigation (and his whole life) might have turned out very differently. But she didn’t. Anna Lewis lied to Garrison because she was afraid. Meanwhile, Judyth hid silently because she was afraid. Two critical pieces of evidence were unavailable to the American people and their elected representatives (like Garrison) at the time they were pondering who killed their President. Now that we know differently, is it time to reconsider our history?

3. Was Judyth trained to handle cancer viruses before going to New Orleans?

The short answer is “yes,” and the evidence to support this is abundant. Here is a photo taken by the Herald-Tribune (a newspaper in the Bradenton area) showing Judyth in her cancer lab with her mice during high school. The numerous newspaper articles published in The Bradenton Herald tell a similar tale. Judyth was a star science student who wanted to find a cure for cancer. They wanted her to succeed. After creating lung cancer in her mice faster than anyone known to medical science, Judyth was given introductions, financing, opportunities, chemicals, tuition, and training. Her training was world-class.

I also know a man in Bradenton who remembers Judyth from high school. He was in an independent-study science class with Judyth and saw her on a regular basis during their senior year in high school. His comments to me are worth noting. He said “If you’re telling me that Judyth wound up in some secret lab doing some heavy duty experiments, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. She was always very intense and took herself very seriously.”
The next newspaper article that I would like to discuss was published in upstate New York in The Buffalo Courier-Express, which reported on the cancer research training program that Judyth attended at the Roswell Park Cancer Center.

There is a detail in the text of this article that I think is equally important. It’s a quote from Dr. Edwin Mirand who ran the program Judyth attended.

Dr. Mirand was half of the “Grace and Mirand” medical research team that wrote “Human Susceptibility to a Simian Tumor Virus,” an article published in the Annals of the New York Academy of Science in 1963.

I referred to this same article in every edition of my book since 1995. It has been listed in the bibliography the entire time.
In other words, this is proof that in 1961, Judyth personally knew and studied under the nation’s leading experts in cancer-causing monkey viruses which I wrote about.

And she did so 34 years before I published my book.

This article contradicts that notion that Judyth read my book and wrote herself into it. She did not. The evidence indicates that she was trained to handle cancer-causing viruses, lived in New Orleans, and knew Lee Oswald decades earlier.

This may be intoxicating news for those concerned about Judyth’s credibility and what she can tell us about Lee Oswald, but it is sobering to those of us worried about the fate of the biological weapon. This means that Judyth Vary Baker really did have the technical skills to handle the cancer-causing monkey viruses that might be used to create a biological weapon. Yes, Judyth Vary Baker had the technical qualifications to be “the technician” that did “the bench work” in the Ferrie-Sherman medical laboratory. Hearing Judyth admit that as a 19-year old she assisted Lee Harvey Oswald, David Ferrie, Dr. Mary Sherman, and Dr. Alton Ochsner in their efforts to develop a biological weapon is… a brain-buster! I guess I have my witness.

We are at the end of our three qualifying questions about Judyth Vary Baker. The answers were “yes, yes, yes.” Our next step is to ask what else did she say?

Here is a brief summary of the parts of Judyth’s story that are relevant to the our inquiry. A more in depth account is the appendix entitled “Judyth’s Story.”

1. Judyth went to New Orleans in the 1963 at the invitation of Dr. Alton Ochsner.

2. Ochsner had known Judyth for several years and had previously arranged for her to be trained at the famous cancer research center discussed above.

3. Ochsner promised Judyth early-admission to Tulane Medical School in return for her services in Dr. Mary Sherman’s cancer lab at Ochsner Clinic. Ochsner also provided her with cancer research papers on the state-of-the-art techniques such as cancer-causing viruses.

4. Judyth wound up working under Sherman’s direction in the underground medical laboratory in David Ferrie’s apartment instead of in her cancer lab at the Ochsner clinic.

5. Judyth met Lee Oswald at the Post Office in what she thought was a chance encounter. In hind-sight, she realized that this had to be intentional, since Lee was already working with David Ferrie, Dr. Mary Sherman and Dr. Alton Ochsner on the bio-weapon at the time. Lee introduced her to “Dr. David Ferrie” the following day and helped Judyth find an apartment.

6. When Judyth went to meet Dr. Ochsner in a room within the bowels of Charity Hospital, Lee Oswald accompanied her to the appointment and went in first to meet with Dr. Ochsner alone.

7. Lee was working with ex-FBI agent Guy Banister as has been reported by many sources. Lee took Judyth to meet Banister in his office to satisfy her concerns that the bio-weapons project is really a secret government operation. Banister confirmed that Lee was working with them on a get-Castro project.[10]

8. When Judyth went to Dr. Sherman’s apartment for a private dinner with her, David Ferrie was the only other guest. Sherman and Ferrie discussed the nature of their project with Judyth. They deemed the idea of using cancer-causing viruses to kill Castro as morally ethical since is might prevent World War III. Lee phoned Judyth that same night at Sherman’s apartment. Dr. Mary Sherman was the operational director of “the project.” Ferrie and Oswald were participants.

9. Lee escorted and transported Judyth all over town, including to Dr. Sherman’s apartment where Judyth dropped off “the product” and related reports for Sherman’s review. Lee was “the runner.”

10. Judyth and Lee were provided cover-jobs at Reily Coffee Company where they were allowed to slip out several afternoons a week to work in the underground medical laboratory in David Ferrie’s apartment.[11]

11. Lee Oswald’s connections to the Mafia in New Orleans are much stronger than have ever been reported publicly.[12] Judyth and Lee ate-for-free at restaurants owned by Carlos Marcello and went to his headquarters (500 Club and Town & Country Motel).

12. Lee’s role in the kill-Castro portion of the project was to transport the bio-weapon into Cuba. The radio debates and film clips of Oswald’s leafleting were arranged by Ochsner (at Oswald’s request) to make Oswald appear to be an authentic defector so he could get into Cuba more easily.

13. Judyth heard the subject of assassinating JFK was discussed at various times by various people, including Ferrie, Sherman and Oswald. Part of the logic that was explained to Judyth was that they had to hurry up and kill Castro with their bio-weapon before Ochsner’s friend ran out of patience and decided to kill Kennedy instead.

14. After testing their bio-weapon on dozens of monkeys, they arranged to test it on a human “volunteer,” a convict brought from Angola State Penitentiary to the Jackson State Mental Hospital in rural Louisiana for that purpose. The weapon was successful. The man died in 28 days as a result.

15. Judyth wrote a letter to Dr. Ochsner protesting the use of an unwitting human in their bio-weapon test and delivered it to his secretary.[13] Upon seeing the letter, Ochsner exploded in anger and threatened both Judyth and Lee. Everything fell apart for Judyth as a result. Ochsner reneged on his offer to place Judyth in Tulane Medical School. Lee was ordered to Dallas. Judyth went back to Florida with her husband.

16. For the next few months, Judyth and Lee stayed in contact by telephone, thanks to access to the Mafia’s “secret” Miami-to-Las Vegas sports betting lines courtesy of David Ferrie. While the phone company and the U.S. Government might not have been able to listen to their conversations, the Mafia would have been able to!

17. On Wednesday, November 20, 1963, Lee told Judyth that there would be a real attempt to kill President Kennedy when he visits Dallas on Friday. It is the last time they talked.

But we are not here to figure out who killed JFK. We are trying to understand who was using radiation to mutate monkey viruses and why. Judyth’s testimony is an important piece of the puzzle for us to have. Judyth’s account means that a witness who participated in “the project” (as they called it) has confessed that both she and Lee Oswald were operational members of the Ferrie-Sherman underground medical laboratory and that they knew that they were developing a biological weapon. This is a major point. Think about how difficult it would have been to investigate and prosecute Lee Oswald in a court of law for killing Kennedy without exposing that laboratory, its sponsors, the cancer-causing viruses that contaminated the polio vaccine, and all of the ethical and medical questions arising from their irradiation of a flotilla of dangerous monkey viruses. Can you imagine the publicity? The political fall-out? With one side of Lee’s life connected to anti-Communists like Ochsner, Reily, and Banister (and perhaps the FBI and the CIA) and the other side connected to Carlos Marcello and almost everyone around him, Oswald’s trial would have exposed everything. Whether Oswald had anything to do with killing Kennedy or not, the exposure of a trial would have created obvious problems for the sponsors of the lab.

Like the cover-up which dumped Mary Sherman’s burned and mangled corpse into her apartment, Lee’s murder was deemed “a necessity” to protect the underground medical laboratory and its sponsors. In doing so, they silenced the man who could have explained what really happened (or perhaps what did not happen) in Dallas on November 22, 1963.[14] Perhaps this was part of their plan all along.

Today, Judyth’s goal is to exonerate Lee Oswald. She will never stop her crusade to clear his name. I consider the bulk of what she has said to be as accurate as she can be held accountable for. She is explaining what happened in her life to the best of her ability. I have seen people that I knew were in the same room with each other at the same time disagree on what happened. Disagreement is not the acid test of truth. Events are always colored by perception. Judyth knows what she heard and knows what she believes, much of which is what she was led to believe by others. Yes, Judyth loved Lee. Judyth believed Lee. Judyth trusted Lee. She also trusted Dr. Alton Ochsner, Dr. Mary Sherman and David Ferrie. She was really there with Lee Oswald in New Orleans. She was young, impressionable, naïve and gullible. Somewhere along the line both she and Lee were betrayed. But there is a limit to what she knows. Judyth was not in Dallas on November 22, 1963.[15] We all need to distinguish between what she personally saw and heard versus what she understands or believes to be the case. Both her critics and her supporters need to make these distinctions. So does she. So do I.

Next we look at what Judyth said that disagrees with things I wrote in earlier editions of this book.

First, I remind the reader that I did not feel that I had strong enough evidence in hand to endorse the claimed connection between Mary Sherman and David Ferrie without reservation and that I challenged any researcher to come foreword with real evidence or testimony that they were associated. They did.[16] Judyth clearly states Mary Sherman knew David Ferrie well. In fact, Judyth had dinner with Sherman and Ferrie at Sherman’s apartment. Judyth is adamant that Mary Sherman was definitely part of the cancer-virus research project that was going on at David Ferrie’s apartment. In fact, part of Judyth’s daily operational cycle was to bring “the extracts” of her cancer-causing virus research from Ferrie’s apartment to Mary Sherman’s apartment. She also clearly states that Dr. Alton Ochsner was ultimately in charge of the Ferrie-Sherman lab. And that both she and Lee Oswald were part of the effort to use the cancer-causing monkey viruses to develop a biological weapon. No, David Ferrie had not run off with the mice after the Big Lab was shut down as I had suggested. The mice were delivered to his apartment several times per week for processing as part of the operation. To my mind, this has always been what I called “the worst case scenario” - the confirmed existence of the secret cooperation between talented scientists, dangerous radioactive equipment, monkey viruses and political extremists in an underground medical laboratory.

But did they use radiation to mutate the monkey viruses?

I wrote to Judyth and said that I needed to know specifically if she had been told that the viruses she was working with at David Ferrie’s apartment had been exposed to radiation at another location to change them genetically? I told her I wanted to make sure that no one can find any ambiguity in her statement or be able to misinterpret it, so I was going to put a magnifying glass on it. I needed clarification. I needed her to confirm or deny it based on what she knew? My exact words were:

“My question is about your time in New Orleans in the summer of 1963… Do I understand that you are saying that you were told that the extracts that you prepared at David Ferrie's apartment and delivered to Mary Sherman's apartment were being subjected to radiation and then recycled into more mice? Do I have this right?”

Judyth’s response:

==EXACTLY...ALSO, INTO MONKEYS. MANY WERE KILLED, BUT THEY ORDERED THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF NEW MONKEYS…==

I continued:

“By your term ‘we all knew it’ who are you referring to? Could I ask you to answer ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ to each person on this list separately. The question is: Did you personally discussed exposing your tumor extracts to radiation with this person:”

Judyth’s response:

Mary Sherman-- SHE WAS THE ONE IN CHARGE OF DOING THIS

Lee Oswald-- YES. HE ONCE TOOK ONE BATCH OVER TO CRIPPLED CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL AND MET HER THERE BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO GET THEM FROM HER APARTMENT...

Alton Ochsner --- HE WAS IN CHARGE OF THE PROJECT. DR. SHERMAN WAS AFRAID HE WAS BEING EXPLOITED AND DIDN'T REALIZE THE FULL SIGNIFICANCE, THAT OTHERS COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON THIS MATERIAL. BUT HE KEPT HIMSELF WHITE AS SNOW, THOUGH HE WASN'T. DR. MARY DIDN'T TRUST HIM.

David Ferrie --YES

Bill Monahan -- THAT IS MONAGHAN.... NO, HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING EXCEPT THEY NEEDED ME FOR LAB WORK ON COMPANY TIME AND HE HAD TO DO WORK I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO, WHICH IRRITATED HIM.

They used radiation to mutate their monkey viruses!

Was Judyth the technician in David Ferrie’s underground medical laboratory? She admits that she was, despite the obvious legal, ethical and security consequences of doing so. Were they irradiating cancer-causing viruses to develop a biological weapon? Judyth participated in that operation and said that their use of radiation was both deliberate and central to the design of the project. Was the operation in David Ferrie’s apartment connected to operation at the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital? Judyth says it was.

The consequences of these statements are terrifying!

Frankly, I would have preferred to have been wrong. It appears that I was not. These were very dark deeds indeed. They may have been “the dark deed” whose price the population of the planet still pays today. I doubt this connection will ever be proven to the satisfaction of the critics. But they do not control us nor the truth!

At least I understand why my father was so upset about, when he learned what was going on down at the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital.
So we are left with questions. Questions that Judyth Vary Baker cannot answer. Questions I cannot answer. Questions that deserve better answers.
Questions like:

* Which monkey viruses did their radiation genetically alter? Was SIV one?[17]

* What happened to their collection of mutated monkey viruses after Judyth left?

* Did any of these mutated monkey viruses “escape” into the human population?

* Will Judyth’s price for clearing Lee Oswald’s name be the sacrifice of her own?
Fortunately we can still ask questions like these. One has to wonder what will happen if we ever stop?

[1] CBS’s legendary anchorman Dan Rather was part of 60M management team at the time. Rather was a staunch supporter of the Oswald-did-it-alone theory and is infamous for his comment about the Zapruder film which stated President Kennedy’s head had been thrown violently “forward” by the fatal head shot from the rear. Since the public had not yet been allowed to see the film, there was no one to dispute the accuracy of Rather’s comment. Now that the film has been viewed by millions, everyone knows Kennedy’s head was thrown “backwards.” How could Rather have been so wrong? Was 60M the best place to take Judyth’s story?

[2] A woman was introduced to me (and Barbara) as “Judyth Vary Baker” at a party near Tulane’s campus in uptown New Orleans in October 1972. The exact location was on Pitt St. near the corner of Dufoucher St. behind the Ladder Library on St. Charles Avenue. It is important to point out that our invitation to this party was the result of an argument I had several days earlier concerning the David Ferrie’s underground medical laboratory and whether viruses could actually cause cancer in humans. My opponent was with a graduate student (a young man from Latin America) who had previously made comments to Barbara about Dr. Ochsner’s connections to Nazi scientists in South America. (See the “College Daze” chapter concerning this earlier event.) At Barbara’s suggestion, we went as a group to a cafeteria on Tulane’s campus for coffee. Several other graduate students joined us there. What began as a polite discussion about local lore and Jim Garrison’s investigation into the JFK assassination descended into an argument about the scientific accuracy of my comments about cancer-causing viruses. The fact that I said that it was his hero, Dr. Ochsner, who had said that “sex could cause cancer” was a particularly volatile point. Several days later Barbara complained to me that since that conversation in the cafeteria, none of her fellow graduate students had spoken to her. She said to me: “You have to make up your mind whether you are going to be an expert on the Garrison Investigation or whether you want to be my boyfriend.” I assured her that I was more interested in being with her than in discussing the JFK assassination and agreed not to discuss it around her friends. Several days after that water-shed conversation, Barbara announced that my “performance in the cafeteria” had gotten us invited to a party. Barbara was anxious to attend the party in hopes of regaining her social standing amongst her graduate school colleagues. She invited me to accompany her to the party on the condition that I could “control myself.” Therefore, when the hostess of this party told Barbara that she had been a friend of Lee Harvey Oswald when he lived in New Orleans and invited me to discuss the Garrison Investigation with her, I asked Barbara if we could leave. Barbara agreed, and we immediately left the party. Two weeks later, this “Judyth Vary Baker” contacted Barbara and invited us (as a couple) to dinner at her house (without any other guests). I reminded Barbara that this woman had said that she was a friend of Lee Harvey Oswald and said that I did not want to go to dinner at her house. Barbara declined the invitation. When 60M said they were investigating “Judy Vary Baker,” I thought it was the same person. It was not. Was I being set up to discredit the real Judy Vary Baker should she ever emerge from hiding? Or was I given her name so that I would recognize it when she did? I don’t know. For a more detailed account of this incident, see my video interview by Jim Marrs posted on http://www.JFKmurdersolved.com.

[3] I should add that until I saw the 60M documents, that I did not know that her middle named was spelled “Vary.” But I remembered wondering when I first heard her name back in 1972 if her middle name was “Veri” (like veritas, meaning truth) or “Vari” (like various or variable, meaning multiple or changing.)

[4] Langley is the small town in Virginia where the headquarters of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency is located.

[5] Judyth’s knowledge of and personal involvement with the subject of cancer research is remarkable to this day. Upon seeing a 2006 news article about a break-through in cancer research involving a mouse whose immune system was extremely good at resisting cancer, Judyth sent me an email which said: “We could have cured cancer…decades ago... and here you see that macrophages in mice do it --- and yes, just as I have claimed they could...This can be turned into an efficient and cheap way to combat cancer. Oh, if only I could have convinced somebody to just give me a chance to direct a lab! …And also because they are still just using murine (mouse) macrophages, a first step that I knew would work way back in 1961. Oh, I feel as if my whole life has been wasted! Have to admit I just sat down after reading this and wept tears of anger and frustration for the millions who have suffered and died from cancer, especially children, and I knew the key, but my mouth had been stopped up with clay. I cannot stop weeping... This is awful, to feel such anger and helplessness. Yet happy that at last they should be able to see what to do...”

[6] Baker, Judyth Vary. Lee Harvey Oswald: The True Story of the Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy by his Lover, Trafford, Victoria, BC, Canada, 2006.

[7] The same document was shown on The History Channel in 2003, The Men Who Killed Kennedy, “The Love Affair,” November 1963, produced by Nigel Turner in association with British Independent Television.

[8] On their return trips from Reily, Judyth and Lee exhibited more caution. Though they rode the same bus, they did not sit together. They would ride the bus past their apartments, past the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital, and get off at Audubon Park where they could speak and socialize freely. Then they would ride the Magazine bus back (the opposite direction) to their respective apartments. In an interesting aside, Judyth mentioned to me that she and Lee even rolled down “Monkey Hill” during one of their visits to Audubon Park. Monkey Hill is a 25 foot pile of dirt which is covered with grass. Rolling down Monkey Hill was a great tradition for kids in New Orleans. I did it many times as a child while playing a game called “King on the Mountain.” New Orleans is so flat that the City built this artificial hill in Audubon Park so that the local children would know what a hill was. The sight of dozens of school-aged children rolling down the hill is why they named it Monkey Hill, because we all looked like a bunch of monkeys.

[9] Technically Oswald’s employment interview was conducted by Mr. Prechter who was head of Personnel. However, as Reily’s Vice-President in charge of Finance and Security, it was Monaghan (the ex-FBI agent) that had to made the final decision concerning who to hire. Monaghan apparently did not think that hiring “a defector” who had lived in Russia and held an “undesirable discharge” from the Marines would be a security problem for the virulently anti-Communist company.

[10] While meeting Banister satisfied Judyth, it does not convince me, since Banister was also working with Marcello. The larger question is “Was Marcello working with the government?” And the ultimate question becomes “Who is the government?”

[11] I emphasize that I do not know of any document, testimony or evidence which suggests that William Reily personally (nor his company as an entity) knew about Ochsner’s secret medical project nor that his employees were being used to develop a biological weapon while they were on the company clock. Nothing herein should be interpreted as implying such. What is known that Reily was fiercely anti-Communist, a member of INCA, and that he provided financial support to some of Ochsner’s political activities, but this can easily be explained by the financial interest of the local business community and the political events of the day. William Reily should be consider as innocent as Oswald, since neither have had a day in court.

[12] Lee Oswald’s family had been Mafia connected since he was a child. Lee attended parties at Marcello’s house and was remembered from those days by people that Judyth met. Lee also worked as an errand boy running between Marcello’s clubs and restaurants. Lee personally met with Mafia boss Carlos Marcello on several occasions in 1963. Judyth saw Lee collect fists-full of cash from the manager of Marcello’s Town & County Motel and deliver it to his uncle who was involved in Marcello’s gambling operations.

[13] The secretary was a temp. Ochsner’s regular secretary (a nurse) was on vacation at the time.

[14] Jack Ruby visited David Ferrie’s apartment one day when Judyth and Lee were there. Ferrie introduced him to Judyth as Sparky Rubenstein. Judyth was surprised that Ferrie briefed Ruby on their bio-weapon project. (Why not? They all work for Marcello.) Ruby recognized Lee and said that he used to see him a parties when he was a boy. This means that Jack Ruby knew about Oswald’s connection to the underground medical laboratory when he shot him, and he knew about the cancer cocktail that could be used to silence him as he awaited trial for Oswald’s murder. It is no wonder he wanted to get out of Dallas. And it is no wonder that the Warren Commission did not accept his offer to talk in exchange for safer accommodations. Jack Ruby told Al Maddox (his Dallas Police guard) that he had been injected with cancer cells. Maddox has said that the doctor that gave Ruby injections came from Chicago. Maddox was present at Parkland Hospital when Ruby died of an embolism caused by galloping lung cancer.

[15] Publicly, I have always taken the position that Oswald’s guilt or innocence is ultimately irrelevant to whether an underground medical laboratory in New Orleans was using mutated monkey viruses to develop a biological weapon and whether that biological weapon is responsible for epidemics we see today. My neutrality on Oswald is a position that has become increasingly difficult for me to maintain. To my eyes, Lee was the perfect patsy - one that could not be investigated without getting into his connections to the Mafia, to the CIA, to Ochsner, to the particle accelerator, to the biological weapon and (most importantly) to his ultimate sponsor - the person who helped “the defector” return to the United States from the Soviet Union with his wife and child at the height of the Cold War? Who was Oswald’s ultimate sponsor? Is the need to hide this key piece of information the reason why Lee Harvey Oswald’s tax returns have never been made public? Was it Marcello using his influence on the Louisiana politicians that he was so famous for bribing? Or was it Bobby Kennedy himself - who was U.S. Attorney General at the time Oswald returned and had the power to declare that he was still a citizen and allow him to return. Both of these sponsors could have arranged for the State Department to lend him the money to pay for his family’s transportation back to the U.S. These are the type of penetrating questions that “lone nut” was constructed to suppress.. They are the questions we need to ask.

[16] It was Dr. Howard Platzman who took Judyth Vary Baker to 60 Minutes and later to me. He deserves credit.

[17] SIV is the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus which was one of several monkey viruses known to have contaminated the polio vaccine. The more carcinogenic SV-40 has gotten most of the press. SIV (a single strand RNA retro virus) is considerably smaller than SV-40 (a double stranded DNA virus). The technology of the day was not able to filter SIV out from the viral extracts. Further, researchers of the day did not consider retro-viruses dangerous so they basically ignored them. AIDS has taught us how dangerous retro-viruses can be. If “the project” in New Orleans was intentionally exposing a SV-40 to radiation, they may have unintentionally exposed SIV to radiation at the same time. Simply stated, HIV-1 is a mutated form of SIV. Did the mutation which changed SIV into HIV-1 occur when they exposed SV-40 to radiation? Was this the moment of conception of AIDS? Would this artificially induced mutation explain why HIV-1 is mutating so rapidly? Why it is behaving so “unnaturally?” If you are a scientist involved in AIDS research, these are the questions I would like you to consider.

[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='190265' date='Apr 21 2010, 03:49 AM'][quote name='Jack White' post='190249' date='Apr 20 2010, 10:29 PM']
Doug Weldon, David Lifton, Jack White have been under assault here.
Does that make us the real deal?

Jack[/quote]

Indeed they have been ... as have a few others as well. :-)

Why has he resorted to these sorts of ad hominem attacks, ridicule, sarcasm, etc which
he once denounced, saying:

Those who repeatly [sic] resort to ad hominem arguments, sarcasm, and ridicule,
who offer flimy [sic], phony, misleading reasons for their positions, deserve to be viewed
as in a different category than those who do their best to offer objective, balanced evidence supporting
non-fallacious arguments. ~James Fetzer, post on yahoo jfk group, 12-21-05.

Bests to you, Jack,
Barb :-)
[/quote]