Israel has attacked Gaza Flotilla (dead and wounded)

[Peter Presland]

.. and this thing is very far from over - all eye's on the Rachael Corrie.

..... And herein lies the opportunity for President Obama--currently standing shamefully in the corner wearing the dunce's cap--to redeem himself. ....

MLK was an African American with balls. He would have dragged the Israelis into line long ago. Does Obama have any balls?

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is a man with balls. A great statesman at a time when they are sorely needed.

If the Gaza blockade causes a war to break out, then its on Obama's head. He has about 48 hours to decide whether or not he wants to go down in history as a chickenshit coward.

Re: the boldfaced bit:

I agree it would be on his head but, assuming war between Israel and Turkey/Iran/Syria IS judged to be the way to go, that is certainly not what would be fed to the Western Sheeple - and given the implications, the vast majority would probably, yet again, accept the official narrative - for a while anyway and depending how it all turned out.

Suppose that toppling Erdogan is judged a priority in spite of the risks, then this conjunction of events could just be manoeuvred into the best 'casus-beli' for attacking Iran, Syria, Hezbolla and Hamas that the US/Israel is likely to get. It is exactly what CIA/Mossad and the rest of the Western Intelligence axis have specialised in and honed to a fine art over decades. Stir the pot, manipulate, provoke etc - secure in the knowledge that you can obliterate any of the protagonists at will and create your own version of reality. It's wearing a bit thin by now but I wouldn't bet against it.

IMHO this whole developing situation is fraught with grave peril but, given the state of the globalisation project, I would put the odds at best at about evens that something like that has/has not been carefully planned and orchestrated.

[Mark Stapleton]

.. and this thing is very far from over - all eye's on the Rachael Corrie.

..... And herein lies the opportunity for President Obama--currently standing shamefully in the corner wearing the dunce's cap--to redeem himself. ....

MLK was an African American with balls. He would have dragged the Israelis into line long ago. Does Obama have any balls?

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is a man with balls. A great statesman at a time when they are sorely needed.

If the Gaza blockade causes a war to break out, then its on Obama's head. He has about 48 hours to decide whether or not he wants to go down in history as a chickenshit coward.

Re: the boldfaced bit:

I agree it would be on his head but, assuming war between Israel and Turkey/Iran/Syria IS judged to be the way to go, that is certainly not what would be fed to the Western Sheeple - and given the implications, the vast majority would probably, yet again, accept the official narrative - for a while anyway and depending how it all turned out.

Suppose that toppling Erdogan is judged a priority in spite of the risks, then this conjunction of events could just be manoeuvred into the best 'casus-beli' for attacking Iran, Syria, Hezbolla and Hamas that the US/Israel is likely to get. It is exactly what CIA/Mossad and the rest of the Western Intelligence axis have specialised in and honed to a fine art over decades. Stir the pot, manipulate, provoke etc - secure in the knowledge that you can obliterate any of the protagonists at will and create your own version of reality. It's wearing a bit thin by now but I wouldn't bet against it.

IMHO this whole developing situation is fraught with grave peril but, given the state of the globalisation project, I would put the odds at best at about evens that something like that has/has not been carefully planned and orchestrated.

I can't see how Israel alone could fight against such an array of opponents and succeed--unless they unleashed nukes and destroyed themselves in the process. The entire region may yet unite against Israel in the event of another war.

The circumstances are much different to 1967 for example. Unlike then, Israel has now alienated itself from much of Europe, Asia and indeed most of the world. Spin won't work when the rest of the world knows the score. Because of the internet, Zionist control over information has been weakened. They can't impose an alternative reality like they used to. Their efforts to do so in this recent debacle have been an abject failure.

And America has no pretext for fighting on Israel's side--the slavering rednecks in the Republican Party notwithstanding. They don't even have a formal defence treaty with Israel--just a set of vague 'understandings'. The top military brass have also displayed a reluctance to follow Israel's lead of late. Despite Israel's control over the US legislature and much of its institutions, there's dissent everywhere--and its becoming more vocal.

Iran has been very careful not to provoke the Israel/US axis into war. They insist on their right to nuclear energy just like anyone else, but they haven't stepped over the mark once, much to the annoyance and frustration of the true axis of evil.

In their desperation, Israel may expedite all the false flag attacks they have in the pipeline in order to catalyse the west into supporting them. Bombs (and God knows what else) might start going off everywhere in the west. I certainly hope I'm wrong there, but what I've learned over the last ten years or so is that you can never underestimate the evil of the Zionist regime. They've developed a seige mentality against the rest of the world.

[Magda Hassan]

Last time I looked the MV Rachel Corrie was flagged in Cameroon IIRC. It has been leased by some Irish humanitarian group to send aid to Gaza. Does any one know any different? And what it may mean in a confrontation with the Israelis?

Edit: The Rachel Corrie is registered in Cambodia.

[Peter Lemkin]

Last time I looked the MV Rachel Corrie was flagged in Cameroon IIRC. It has been leased by some Irish humanitarian group to send aid to Gaza. Does any one know any different? And what it may mean in a confrontation with the Israelis?

It had originally meant to be with the original flotilla, but had some mechanical problems that delayed it. I believe the above it correct. I predict more of the same from the Israeli's - who may try not to kill quite as many this time.....but the chances of doing so is there and more than 50-50; as if they did not [they fear] it would break their illegal blockade and open the doors for Gaza to live like a normal entity.....Israel, for all of their propaganda, lies and bravado are on the defensive now. I heard there was an Irish Nobel Peace Prize winner on board, I'll catch the name again and put it up.....kill her and there will be trouble......but I see little world reaction to the 9 or so dead...including a 19 year old American.

[Peter Presland]

I can't see how Israel alone could fight against such an array of opponents and succeed--unless they unleashed nukes and destroyed themselves in the process. The entire region may yet unite against Israel in the event of another war.

The circumstances are much different to 1967 for example. Unlike then, Israel has now alienated itself from much of Europe, Asia and indeed most of the world. Spin won't work when the rest of the world knows the score. Because of the internet, Zionist control over information has been weakened. They can't impose an alternative reality like they used to. Their efforts to do so in this recent debacle have been an abject failure.

And America has no pretext for fighting on Israel's side--the slavering rednecks in the Republican Party notwithstanding. They don't even have a formal defence treaty with Israel--just a set of vague 'understandings'. The top military brass have also displayed a reluctance to follow Israel's lead of late. Despite Israel's control over the US legislature and much of its institutions, there's dissent everywhere--and its becoming more vocal.

Iran has been very careful not to provoke the Israel/US axis into war. They insist on their right to nuclear energy just like anyone else, but they haven't stepped over the mark once, much to the annoyance and frustration of the true axis of evil.

In their desperation, Israel may expedite all the false flag attacks they have in the pipeline in order to catalyse the west into supporting them. Bombs (and God knows what else) might start going off everywhere in the west. I certainly hope I'm wrong there, but what I've learned over the last ten years or so is that you can never underestimate the evil of the Zionist regime. They've developed a seige mentality against the rest of the world.

I think we're in danger of discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin here, but a couple of points:

Firstly I don't think America needs a pretext. 'America', as used and abused by you-know-who, is largely irrelevant. It is a trans-national elite dominated by the US PNAC-aligned political establishment that calls the shots and I don't think there's much doubt about its bought-and-paid Zionist loyalties. The only question for me is the extent to which the US military will continue to allow itself to be the tool of that trans-national agenda.

On that analysis, IF Erdogan is judged a serious enough threat and Syria/Iran can be drawn into action in support, that trans-national elite have the makings of the casus beli against the Axis of Evil they so desperately need. Sterling efforts being made with North Korea right now too,

I don't see all that as a done deal but historical precedents are not encouraging.

[Mark Stapleton]

Last time I looked the MV Rachel Corrie was flagged in Cameroon IIRC. It has been leased by some Irish humanitarian group to send aid to Gaza. Does any one know any different? And what it may mean in a confrontation with the Israelis?

http://aliabunimah.posterous.com/list-of...-corrie-en

The passernger list.

2 Irish and 9 Malaysians. Former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir has been a vocal critic of Israel for years and is a sponsor of this humanitarian voyage. Although he's not on board, he has balls.

I hope the ship is nowhere near Cameroon, otherwise we're in big trouble.:heeeelllllooooo:

[Magda Hassan]

Yep, Mark. Forgot about the Malaysian involvement on that ship. But it is still flagged in Cameroon. What ever that may mean.

[Mark Stapleton]

I can't see how Israel alone could fight against such an array of opponents and succeed--unless they unleashed nukes and destroyed themselves in the process. The entire region may yet unite against Israel in the event of another war.

The circumstances are much different to 1967 for example. Unlike then, Israel has now alienated itself from much of Europe, Asia and indeed most of the world. Spin won't work when the rest of the world knows the score. Because of the internet, Zionist control over information has been weakened. They can't impose an alternative reality like they used to. Their efforts to do so in this recent debacle have been an abject failure.

And America has no pretext for fighting on Israel's side--the slavering rednecks in the Republican Party notwithstanding. They don't even have a formal defence treaty with Israel--just a set of vague 'understandings'. The top military brass have also displayed a reluctance to follow Israel's lead of late. Despite Israel's control over the US legislature and much of its institutions, there's dissent everywhere--and its becoming more vocal.

Iran has been very careful not to provoke the Israel/US axis into war. They insist on their right to nuclear energy just like anyone else, but they haven't stepped over the mark once, much to the annoyance and frustration of the true axis of evil.

In their desperation, Israel may expedite all the false flag attacks they have in the pipeline in order to catalyse the west into supporting them. Bombs (and God knows what else) might start going off everywhere in the west. I certainly hope I'm wrong there, but what I've learned over the last ten years or so is that you can never underestimate the evil of the Zionist regime. They've developed a seige mentality against the rest of the world.

I think we're in danger of discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin here, but a couple of points:

Firstly I don't think America needs a pretext. 'America', as used and abused by you-know-who, is largely irrelevant. It is a trans-national elite dominated by the US PNAC-aligned political establishment that calls the shots and I don't think there's much doubt about its bought-and-paid Zionist loyalties. The only question for me is the extent to which the US military will continue to allow itself to be the tool of that trans-national agenda.

On that analysis, IF Erdogan is judged a serious enough threat and Syria/Iran can be drawn into action in support, that trans-national elite have the makings of the casus beli against the Axis of Evil they so desperately need. Sterling efforts being made with North Korea right now too,

I don't see all that as a done deal but historical precedents are not encouraging.

Well said.

We are really moving into uncharted territory now.

The North Korean comedy sank without trace. At least they're mixing comedy with tragedy.

[Magda Hassan]

Last time I looked the MV Rachel Corrie was flagged in Cameroon IIRC. It has been leased by some Irish humanitarian group to send aid to Gaza. Does any one know any different? And what it may mean in a confrontation with the Israelis?

It had originally meant to be with the original flotilla, but had some mechanical problems that delayed it. I believe the above it correct. I predict more of the same from the Israeli's - who may try not to kill quite as many this time.....but the chances of doing so is there and more than 50-50; as if they did not [they fear] it would break their illegal blockade and open the doors for Gaza to live like a normal entity.....Israel, for all of their propaganda, lies and bravado are on the defensive now. I heard there was a Nobel Peace Prize winner on board, but exactly who was not named.

My bolding above Looks like the Israelis had sabotaged some of the boats before they left Cyprus.

Gaza aid flotilla: Israeli sabotage suspected

Israel's military may have sabotaged two boats carrying Free Gaza activists after both malfunctioned at the same time in the same way prior to the raid Tuesday 1 June 2010 16.26 BST Israel's raid on the Free Gaza flotilla has sparked protests around the world. Two passenger boats may also have been sabotaged prior to the raid Photograph: Yossi Zamir/EPA Israel gave strong indications today that its forces had secretly sabotaged some of the ships bound for Gaza as part of the freedom flotilla.
Matan Vilnai, the deputy defence minister, was asked on Israel Radio whether there had not been a smarter alternative to direct assault. He answered that "all possibilities had been considered," adding: "The fact is that there were less than the 10 ships that were due to participate in the flotilla."
The comments appeared to dovetail with reports that two of the vessels malfunctioned at the same time and in the same way. Challenger I and Challenger II, carrying 36 activists, were forced into port in Cyprus on Friday evening when steering systems on both ships broke down on the passage from Heraklion in Crete, a campaign spokeswoman said.
Challenger II also started taking on water after the bilge pump suddenly stopped working and an inspection yesterday revealed "very suspicious" faults, according to Greta Berlin, a spokeswoman for Free Gaza.
An unnamed Israeli Defence Force source who briefed the Knesset's foreign affairs and defence committee on the widely criticised armed interception of the flotilla at sea, also spoke of "grey operations" being mounted against the flotilla. No further detail was reported, probably because of the military censorship rules binding the Israeli media.
Both were forced to radio distress signals to Cypriot ports and Berlin said the captain of Challenger I, Denis Healey, was "frightened that he was not going to be able to get the boat in".
"They had mechanical probles on Friday afternoon at around 3.30pm when they were going towards Cyprus to pick people up. They had been travelling from Crete and had been at sea for about 30 hours," she said.
Once in port in northern Cyprus, Healey had to repair hydraulic lines on the vessel. Challenger II had to pull alongside the main Turkish ship, the Mavi Marmara, on the high seas 70 miles off Cyprus, to transfer its passengers before it limped into port.
The unnamed Israeli officer also said that military planners had considered trying to stop the Mavi Marmara rather than board it but had decided against it because the Turkish ship was too fast.
There is at least one precedent for naval sabotage by the Israelis. Flotilla 13, the elite naval commando unit that carried out Monday's raid, reportedly blew up a ship named al-Awda (the Return) which was chartered by the PLO in 1988 to dramatise the plight of Palestinian refugees. It sank in Limassol harbour, Cyprus.http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun...-suspected

[Helen Reyes]

Had not heard she was sailing under the flag of Cameroon. I hear she has turned off her radio locator to make it harder for the Israelis to find her. The following might shed a little light. It sounds like Ireland is warning Israel there will be dire consequences for attacking Irish citizens.

http://rachelcorriepgpo.wordpress.com/20...l-warning/

Israel warning
In News and Updates on June 2, 2010 at 5:19 am
MV Rachel Corrie avoided capture during flotilla raid but Israeli lieutenant says ‘we will be ready’

“Medical supplies being loaded into the MV Rachel Corrie, which was named after a 23-year-old American killed in Gaza in 2003. Photograph: Niall Carson/PA”

The final boat in the Gaza aid flotilla was sailing at full speed towards the territory’s coast tonight despite warnings that it would be intercepted by Israeli forces.

The MV Rachel Corrie, a 40-year-old cargo ship bought by the Irish arm of the Free Gaza Movement, was delayed and avoided capture during Monday night’s assault. Tonight it was still in international waters about two days from Gaza, carrying a consignment of aid and 19 activists and crew, among them five Irish nationals, the organisation said.

The Irish taoiseach, Brian Cowen, warned Israel tonight that he expected no violence against those on the Rachel Corrie.

“If any harm comes to any of our citizens it will have the most serious consequences,” he said, calling on Israel to guarantee the vessel safe passage through the military blockade of Gaza.

The ship, named after the 23-year-old American killed in Gaza in 2003 while trying to prevent an Israeli bulldozer demolishing a Palestinian home, had halted in the Mediterranean following the assault while those on board – among them the Nobel peace laureate Máiread Maguire and Denis Halliday, a retired senior UN diplomat – discussed whether they should continue.

It was now carrying as a “second wave” of the flotilla, said Niamh Moloughney, who organised the sailing in Ireland.

“I’d say the mood on board is resilient and steadfast. When people signed up to this they knew what might happen,” said Moloughney. “We expected we would be confronted and there would be a stand-off, but no one expected this. But there’s never really been a question of the boat turning back.”

As well as the Irish nationals, the 1,200-tonne boat is carrying six Malaysians and eight crew of varying nationalities.

All those on board had received training in non-violent resistance before the sailing and had pledged not to fight back if the boat was boarded, Moloughney added.

Speaking on the boat’s satellite phone, Maguire said she was determined the boat should continue on its course.

“We’re not frightened, no, we hope the Israeli government will allow us to go freely in and we know the international community are calling for our safe passage,” she said.

Halliday said he had spoken to Ireland’s foreign minister, Micheál Martin. “He was very reassuring that the government was behind us and he gave us a complete green light to do what we’re doing and he’ll protect us as much as he can,” Halliday said.

Martin himself told parliament: “We will be watching this situation very closely – as indeed will the world – and it is imperative that Israel avoid any action which leads to further bloodshed.”

It appeared clear, however, that Israel planned to stop the ship.

The country’s military was carrying out “professional investigations” into what happened in Monday’s raid, an Israeli marine lieutenant, who was not identified, told Israel’s Army Radio. He added: “And we will also be ready for the Rachel Corrie.”The boat, which was bought at auction by the Free Gaza Movement after being impounded a year before in Dundalk, is carrying a consignment including medical equipment, wheelchairs, school supplies and cement, according to the organisation.

On Bibi, he always seems to form these coalition govts with extreme ultranationalists with a bare minimum of Knesset representation. Regarding possible war with Turkey: the internal dialogue in Israel is basically a case of mass psychosis right now, but the belligerents are either old, infirm, prohibited by their beliefs from actually fighting or not preparing to fight themselves, but plenty ready to act as cheer leaders. The real state of the IDF is highly demoralized, that's why Israel stopped the Lebanon war, not just because of outside pressure.

This scenario would start as a naval war, Lebanon and Syria would likely shoot at Israeli planes and miss them, as they do now. Turkish forces could overwhelm Israel in a conventional battle and their would be high morale on the Turkish side. That only leaves Israel with the possibility of strafing, bombing and harrying Turkish territory from the air, and probably mainly sparsely inhabited eastern Turkey, aka Kurdistan. Israel's big ace up their sleeve would be the nukes, but they'd become total outcasts then and would probably end up losing anyway, because it would piss people off so much and others could join in against Israel, despite Israel's now-dwindling supply of atom bombs. The nuclear war would be limited because Israel's supply is limited. They could nuke Mecca and/or Medina, but that would just stir up the hornet's nest against them. What are the other targets, national capitals? Damascus would be easy to take out, but ... if the "traditional" corrupt and malleable regimes in the Middle East and the Islamic world start to fall, the situation could become even more bellicose and the war against Israel could enjoy even more popular support.

That leaves the US and UK as Israel's fall-back position if they get pushed up against a wall. Except that both US and UK are obligated under NATO to come to Turkey's aid against Israel. What a mess. Sorry, just thinking out loud again.

Oh, and I heard the Turkish leader escaped an assassination attempt by Mossad a year ago, and is not really happy they tried to kill him. There's the NATO stay-behind network in Turkey recently uncovered, possibly this is the same organization that tried to kill him, I haven't followed it. I think if their priority is to kill him now, they've already sort of missed the boat, they failed, and he's mad as hell.