Fetzer/Burton Moon Landing Debate Finale

[Peter Dawson]

Study showing pasted in earth photo.

Jack

And have you done studies of any of the other Apollo photos which show the earth as seen from the moon?

[Peter Dawson]

Why don't you quote more of the paragraph, which makes my point obvious? I response like yours makes no sense for anyone who reads what I wrote, as presumably you have done:

Ah, I see now - you were just cut-and-pasting a response you made over at the EF. That's how you found yourself waist deep in "do as I say not as I do" territory.

[David Guyatt]

David

According to the Wikipedia entry on Moon landing conspiracy theories the blueprints to the moon buggy are missing too.

This is a real shame. Even now, forty years later, we still don't have a fold-away electric car. It's almost as if technology has regressed since the space age

I have an extremely small garage, so a fold-away car would be just the thing. The world is a poorer place for that NASA oversight.

But at least I know that such a thing actually existed - because I used to see one unfold, drive around and then magically fold back into a single stick-like line in the cartoon series "Wacky Races".

It would be interesting to know how, back then, the LEM could hold a fold-away car, two Astronauts. their provisions, cameras (still and video), computer guidance system, water and all the other equipment necessary for survival and broadcast to another world. And all packed in a light-weight structure that looked like it was built from kitchen foil, bent coat-hangers, and camping tin plates.

But I guess we can never know now since all the blueprints have gone bye-bye.

And you're so right. The world is a technologically poorer place for these NASA losses, oversights and cock-ups.

Sad, sad, sad.:bawling:

[David Guyatt]

(I wrote the following just before the footage was introduced which made it clear to any reasonable observer that the moontruth footage is a recently made spoof, not a 1969 original.)

INTRODUCTION

At the outset I’d just like to say, even if I did become convinced that the moon landings were faked, it is something I’d keep strictly quarantined from my views about the JFK assassination and 9/11. I’m quite happy to have it known that I don’t believe the official story about the JFK murder and 9/11, and I’m willing to defend my views about these matters, and would welcome the opportunity to do so before a public audience. The murder of JFK and the attacks on 9/11/01 were crimes which led directly to far greater crimes, and it is of the utmost importance that the original crimes be addressed in the public sphere so that corrective action can be taken.

It is far less obvious to me that the (alleged) hoaxing of the moon landings has led directly to greater crimes of the order that the JFK assassination and 9/11 have. And the simple fact is that, having investigated all three, JFK and 9/11 strike me, and I’m not alone, as being obvious cases of the wider public having an inaccurate appreciation of what actually transpired – and an inaccurate appreciation which led and continues to lead to more injustice and suffering each and every day. Whereas in the case of the moon landings hoaxes, if it were true, it was never obviously a case of the public being deceived – for after looking in depth into the matter, I am still yet to be convinced that the landings were faked – and the only immediate consequences of the exposure of these alleged hoaxes would seem to be a harsh blow to the pride of the world’s only remaining superpower.

The crimes of the JFK assassination and 9/11 make the alleged crime of the hoaxing of the moon landings either insignificant or redundant as far as the consequences for the nations of the world are concerned, and with the moon landings hoaxes, a stigma is attached which makes the proponents of such conspiracy theories look like lunatics, simply due to the fact that it is very hard to marshall evidence in support of such theories (obviously, otherwise a collective of inquiring minds would long ago have put the matter to rest), so in that sense, it is a fight that a prudent person would avoid putting their dog in.

Obviously Jack White and James H Fetzer would disagree with me on this point.

Now let’s move on to the points where I don’t buy much of the evidence that White and Fetzer cite, and where this instills in me an unwillingness to trust their judgment at all on this matter, even in cases which cause me to have remaining doubts about the official Apollo missions story.

I also would disagree with you about your perspective on this Peter.

Facts and objective reason shouldn't be guided by the fear of other people thinking you are foolish - and thus tainting your other convictions as nonsense.

If the Apollo project was predominantly a propaganda exercise then it was of the order only a Goebbles could've dreamt of - and bearing in mind all those Nazis in NASA it may well have been Goebbelian in nature.

Just my tuppence worth though.

[Peter Dawson]

I also would disagree with you about your perspective on this Peter.

Facts and objective reason shouldn't be guided by the fear of other people thinking you are foolish - and thus tainting your other convictions as nonsense.

If the Apollo project was predominantly a propaganda exercise then it was of the order only a Goebbles could've dreamt of - and bearing in mind all those Nazis in NASA it may well have been Goebbelian in nature.

Just my tuppence worth though.

David, the JFK research community has people like James Douglass behind it. The 9/11 truth community has people like David Griffin. The moan hoax community has no such stalwart who has integrated material from many sources into a coherent whole. James Fetzer may have been a contender for the title, but, like some kind of disguised confession, he hangs around on forums pretending that spoof footage might be real, or failing that, that spoof footage is proof that the hoaxing of the moon landings is in the realm of the possible.

I don't shy away from moon hoax conspiracy theories because I fear that I would be ridiculed for believing such a thing, I reject moon hoax conspiracy theories because I would be ridiculed for believing such a thing, because believing such theories is thus far unjustified by an examination of the facts.

I'd really like to believe that they faked the landings. I know there are some good and decent Americans out there, but I am disgusted by America's contribution to the world in my lifetime, and it would suit me just fine if it turned out that the missions were faked. But based solely upon the evidence, the moon hoax theory is lacking, and what's worse, it appears to be well suited to being used to discredit the JFK and 9/11 research communities by association, and the JFK and 9/11 issues are far too important to allow this to happen.

[David Guyatt]

Thanks for your explanation Peter.

Each to his own I think.

Personally, I find the moon hoax story rather more compelling than you. That is not to say it is established beyond all doubt -- but that there are now sufficient doubts (and for me until about three or four years ago I was an agnostic too) - especially with the photo's and visuals (that I have seen anyway), and of course, the growing trail of disappearing primary evidence (as discussed in this thread) to raise enough suspicions in my mind to now suppose that the Apollo programme may have been part of an elaborate cold war propaganda campaign.

As well as funneling truly loads of US tax-payer wonga to the good ol' boys.

[Jack White]

Thanks for your explanation Peter.

Each to his own I think.

Personally, I find the moon hoax story rather more compelling than you. That is not to say it is established beyond all doubt -- but that there are now sufficient doubts (and for me until about three or four years ago I was an agnostic too) - especially with the photo's and visuals (that I have seen anyway), and of course, the growing trail of disappearing primary evidence (as discussed in this thread) to raise enough suspicions in my mind to now suppose that the Apollo programme may have been part of an elaborate cold war propaganda campaign.

As well as funneling truly loads of US tax-payer wonga to the good ol' boys.

PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN is the concise description of the Apollo program.

Jack

[Jack White]

David

According to the Wikipedia entry on Moon landing conspiracy theories the blueprints to the moon buggy are missing too.

This is a real shame. Even now, forty years later, we still don't have a fold-away electric car. It's almost as if technology has regressed since the space age

I have an extremely small garage, so a fold-away car would be just the thing. The world is a poorer place for that NASA oversight.

But at least I know that such a thing actually existed - because I used to see one unfold, drive around and then magically fold back into a single stick-like line in the cartoon series "Wacky Races".

It would be interesting to know how, back then, the LEM could hold a fold-away car, two Astronauts. their provisions, cameras (still and video), computer guidance system, water and all the other equipment necessary for survival and broadcast to another world. And all packed in a light-weight structure that looked like it was built from kitchen foil, bent coat-hangers, and camping tin plates.

But I guess we can never know now since all the blueprints have gone bye-bye.

And you're so right. The world is a technologically poorer place for these NASA losses, oversights and cock-ups.

Sad, sad, sad.:bawling:

I love your description (i have bolded it). Exactly on target.

Jack

[Jack White]

Study showing pasted in earth photo.

Jack

And have you done studies of any of the other Apollo photos which show the earth as seen from the moon?

Many. Shows that you have not even studied my studies
which you are so critical of!

Jack

[Jack White]

Study showing pasted in earth photo.

Jack

Have you shown this study to anyone in order to have your findings confirmed, Jack?

Dumb question.

Who is the "anyone" you refer to? Why would I do such?

I posted that study on the Simkin forum to make it public, as
well as my Aulis website, where EXPERT David Percy approved
it. The Simkin forum, as we know, has provocateurs and NASA
shills POSING as experts. They of course can be ignored.

Jack