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10-01-2009, 10:34 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2009, 10:46 AM by David Healy.)
Top Post...
Ya know Magda, for years I worked in the media (not as a writer as I'm sure you English majors can tell) doing network news, all kinds of nasty stuff..... and frankly the experience has taught me: no one sitting on the sidelines has a fucking clue as to what goes on in the war zone and worse yet -- NO ONE in the middle of it has a clue either....
Who or what blog you deem media (and the internet is media) credible is of course, your business. Based on my reading, its Jew bashing... but that's MY unbiased opinion...
Stories, articles, video footage hits the air. Stories, articles, video footage retracted, corrected or found to be outright lies and yes some staged photo & video clips...
What I see in a few threads here, is serious Jew bashing, from the sidelines yet.
Where's the deep politics? Does that come when the bashing is over?
Shiny things? You mean bullets, RPG's, Rockets, Missiles, those kind of things? Yeah hon, they distract me, as a Vietnam Veteran they've ALWAYS distracted me. :bebored:
Magda Hassan Wrote:David, this is not what I posted. If you want to know the context of this though the poster is referring to some group who claim to be for peace but are out there supporting Israel government actions (which are military and not peaceful) S/He seems to be saying they have not thought their actions through and doesn't want to be associated with them. But this is just differences of opinion between some left factions and is not of interest to me and I don't know why it is of interest to you.
I have NO idea what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that protesting is good as it works so there should be a Jane Fonda type to go and pose with tanks and protest? What exactly are you protesting for or against? Hamas or Israel? Or Palestinians or Jews? Or war in general? Jane Fonda? Sorry David. I just have no idea what you are trying to say here. Or even if it is a joke.
Don't allow yourself to be distracted by shiny things David. Who cares what a blogger calls him or her self. Look at the book not the cover. Did you read what they said? Did you check out the links in the article?
In case you didn't here is the link where the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (the part of the UN that look after the worlds refugees and who ran the school that the Israeli military bombed) speaks officially of how Israel has retracted their statement that there were hamas rockets fired from the school. http://leninology.blogspot.com/2009/01/u...raeli.html
Here is the link where it says that 3 UN run schools were hit on Tuesday. Well, to paraphrase Oscar Wilde to lose one school is a misfortune but to lose two looks like carelessness. What does that make three? Looks like deliberate targeting to me.
http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDet...x?ID=73907
Here is the link from the UN about the family killed at the school a designated refuge centre:
http://reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID...c=3&cc=pse
Here is the link from the UN stating that there were no Hamas in the school either refugees or casualties: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0...87,00.html
Here is the link showing Israeli arrogance (and displacement activity) in wanting to charge the UN with harboring Hamas in it buildings. It also shows that Israel’s ability to discern friendly and hostile targets seems to be in considerable doubt as they shot up a building containing their own military. Very professional.
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/01/06/israe...-killings/
And just to make sure here is another link that shows that Israel is admitting that there were no rockets fired from the school by Hamas or any one else. http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/...chool.html
Now, I know that links above are only from the MSM and eyewitnesses to the events and not from or approved by the AIPAC newsletter editor and are there fore biased but I think Lenin or Fifi or Mambo No5 or what ever s/he likes to call themselves has put a respectable bit of work together. Try reading it. Then comment.
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10-01-2009, 12:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2009, 01:35 PM by Magda Hassan.)
David,
I am a 4 x 2
If you are looking for deep politics you wont find it in an AIPAC white wash which is what you showed me in one of your posts some back. Well, actually you might if you want to see it. If I or others criticise the criminal and inhuman actions of the Israeli military and government it does not amount to 'Jew bashing' as you call it. No group is beyond question no matter their ethnic or religious affiliation. Every other Jew I know is horrified and revolted by what is happening and marching to protest it and in solidarity with the Palestinian people. But you wont know that unless you read and watch more widely than AIPAC approved media outlets and can recognise hasbara for what it is. I know the situation is a bit different in Israel where there is more support for the war but even the people I know there are involved with the peace movement and against the war. Are they all Jew bashers as well? Just because they don't bow down to the government and authority figures. This wholesale slaughter happening in Gaza makes a complete mockery of every Jew that died under the Nazis. Their criminal actions endangers every Jew around this planet because it is bringing out every right wing looney who are saying that "Hitler should have finished them all off" I cannot to go synagogue or Jewish clubs etc because I am afraid I will get blown up or something because of some demented rascist loon or revengeful arab or a CIA/Mossad job to put the blame on the 'terrorists'. Within Israel it will make things more dangerous not safer. They have just created 1,000's more people with nothing left to lose.
Speaking of staged photos and videos do you know that the video that the IDF used to 'prove' that Hamas was firing from the UN school was actually footage from 2007? http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054009.html
Quote:Shiny things? You mean bullets, RPG's, Rockets, Missiles, those kind of things? Yeah hon, they distract me, as a Vietnam Veteran they've ALWAYS distracted me.
Well, they distracted me when I was in the military too. That's why I left and got a life.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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UN: One-third of Gaza dead, injured are children
By JOHN HEILPRIN – 1 day ago
UNITED NATIONS (AP) — Palestinian children are dying at a heavy rate in the Israeli-Hamas fighting — about one of every three persons killed, according to Gaza statistics.
As of Thursday, 257 children were among the approximately 760 reported dead in Gaza. There were another 1,080 children among the 3,100 injured in the conflict, according to statistics from Gaza's health ministry.
The U.N.'s top humanitarian official, John Holmes, described the numbers as "credible" and deeply disturbing. U.N officials say about half of the casualties were civilians.
Holmes and John Ging, head of Gaza operations for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, both expressed anger and regret at their decision Thursday to temporarily suspend aid shipments in the Gaza Strip because it was too risky for their aid workers.
"It's particularly distressing and horrifying that the current casualties seem to be increasingly civilian casualties, with an increasing incidence of whole families being buried in houses which have been hit," Holmes said.
Ann Veneman, executive director of the U.N. children's agency, UNICEF, warned the suspension of aid would put children even more in harm's way.
"This can only deepen an already critical humanitarian situation and put children at even greater risk of death or permanent damage. The distribution of food, water, fuel and medicine should not be impeded," she said.
The Israeli military said in a statement that it cooperates closely with foreign aid groups to help civilians, and said Hamas uses civilians as human shields.
The decision to suspend aid deliveries in Gaza came after Israeli strikes killed two drivers for UNRWA and injured a third in marked vehicles, U.N. officials say.
In all, four of UNRWA's Gaza staff have been killed since Israel launched a major attack on Hamas 13 days ago, according to the U.N. UNRWA said its deliveries of food have served as a "lifeline" for 750,000 Palestinian refugees in Gaza.
Holmes cited another incident in which a U.N. convoy of two armored vehicles and an ambulance were "targeted by small-arms fire during its passage" Thursday, even though its movement was "agreed in advance" by the Israeli authorities.
The World Health Organization said Gaza's health services were "on the point of collapse" — the hospitals overwhelmed, health care workers exhausted. It said the dead included 21 medical personnel, 30 more were injured and 11 ambulances have been struck by attacks.
The Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross, or ICRC, accused Israel Thursday of "unacceptable" delays in letting rescue workers reach three Gaza City homes hit by shelling where they found 15 dead and 18 wounded.
The wounded included young children too weak to stand, but the ICRC said the Israeli army refused to give permission for rescuers to reach the site in the Zeitoun neighborhood for four days and ambulances could not reach the neighborhood because the Israeli army erected large earthen barriers that blocked access.
Israel blamed the delay on fighting in the area.
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David, you and I should meet up sometime, have a beer or two and discuss these sorts of matters. I am a big fan of Mark Twain and his "War Prayer" is more than insightful and works for me also.
It is the mote in thy brother's eye that causes all this conflict - plus (and I believe it is a most important plus) the deep political machinations of the "war party" who govern iron-shod over the so called civilized western nations, partly in order to control their own populace, partly to deflect attention from domestic happening, but always for profit.
The sad fact is that the global manipulators can always trust the resident mote in the brothers eye to ensure war, and are always skilled in using it to best possible effect for their benefit.
It is also a known psychological fact that a ravaged and damaged psyche (both individually and collectively) can be counted on - in most but thankfully not all cases - to reach for the sword rather than reaching for compromise and peace.
David
David Healy Wrote:further.... the below works for me
The War Prayer
by Mark Twain
It was a time of great exulting and excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and sputtering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest depths of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles, beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast doubt upon its righteousness straight way got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.
Sunday morning came – next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams – visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! – then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation:
"God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest, Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!"
Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory.
An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there, waiting.
With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal,
"Bless our arms, grant us victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"
The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside – which the startled minister did – and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:
"I come from the Throne – bearing a message from Almighty God!"
The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention.
"He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import – that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of – except he pause and think.
"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two – one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this – keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.
"You have heard your servant's prayer – the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it – that part which the pastor – and also you in your hearts – fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so!
You heard these words: 'Grant us victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory – must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God the Father fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!
"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle – be Thou near them! With them – in spirit – we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with hurricanes of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it – for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."
[After a pause.] "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits."
not bad for the author of Huck Finn, huh?
Might someone pass this on to the bloggster: lenin
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge. Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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David Healy Wrote:What I see in a few threads here, is serious Jew bashing, from the sidelines yet.
Where's the deep politics? Does that come when the bashing is over?
David,
In the past we've found much on which to agree. In addition, I'm certain you'll recall the many heartfelt kind words I've sent your way over the years.
So while I'm not offended by your charge of "Jew bashing" on this forum, I must stand to correct you in the strongest possible terms.
If referencing war crimes being committed by the State of Israel is "Jew bashing," then referencing war crimes being committed by George W. Bush's America is "Gentile bashing."
Israel is a criminal nation. So is America. That is to say, many of the respective official national policies of these countries violate international law and stand as crimes against humanity.
Period.
The religious affiliations of the criminals are not relevant to my judgements herein offered.
Respectfully,
Charles
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10-01-2009, 07:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2009, 08:01 PM by David Healy.)
Charles Drago Wrote:David,
In the past we've found much on which to agree. In addition, I'm certain you'll recall the many heartfelt kind words I've sent your way over the years.
So while I'm not offended by your charge of "Jew bashing" on this forum, I must stand to correct you in the strongest possible terms.
If referencing war crimes being committed by the State of Israel is "Jew bashing," then referencing war crimes being committed by George W. Bush's America is "Gentile bashing."
Israel is a criminal nation. So is America. That is to say, many of the respective official national policies of these countries violate international law and stand as crimes against humanity.
Period.
The religious affiliations of the criminals are not relevant to my judgements herein offered.
Respectfully,
Charles
Charles, as always, I respect your position and opinion... I'll end my participation in all Israel/Gaza threads with this... you say:
"Israel is a criminal nation"
I say (with full thought and knowledge we'll NEVER know the specifics, only the assumed):
When a sovereign state undergoes missile attack(s) and constant, threatened extinction by ANY other sovereign state(s) -- I suspect, if Israel did NOT respond with full force and might, THEN and only then, would Israel become a criminal nation. A state that will not or can not protect its people, is not a state.... Hamas can not protect its people, hence their missile attacks is fools folly...
So, we're down to whose the first blame, and for that we need to go back 5000 or so years. For whatever it's worth, we have that record.... and for most its clear as mud. Unless that is you have a tendency to believe in ONE GOD... :hmmmm2:
As ever,
David Healy
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David Guyatt Wrote:David, you and I should meet up sometime, have a beer or two and discuss these sorts of matters. I am a big fan of Mark Twain and his "War Prayer" is more than insightful and works for me also.
...
David
Love to do that David. Whenever you'e going to be in the Las Vegas or the Reno-Tahoe area, drop me an email....
Mark Twain once worked for a Virginia City, Nevada newspaper. Old Nevada mining town.... Hop, skip and a jump from here.... We could share libations in the Bucket of Blood Saloon....
DH
Myra Bronstein
Unregistered
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/...ott-israel
Enough. It's time for a boycott
The best way to end the bloody occupation is to target Israel with the kind of movement that ended apartheid in South Africa
Naomi Klein
The Guardian, Saturday 10 January 2009
It's time. Long past time. The best strategy to end the increasingly bloody occupation is for Israel to become the target of the kind of global movement that put an end to apartheid in South Africa. In July 2005 a huge coalition of Palestinian groups laid out plans to do just that. They called on "people of conscience all over the world to impose broad boycotts and implement divestment initiatives against Israel similar to those applied to South Africa in the apartheid era". The campaign Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions was born.
Every day that Israel pounds Gaza brings more converts to the BDS cause - even among Israeli Jews. In the midst of the assault roughly 500 Israelis, dozens of them well-known artists and scholars, sent a letter to foreign ambassadors in Israel. It calls for "the adoption of immediate restrictive measures and sanctions" and draws a clear parallel with the anti-apartheid struggle. "The boycott on South Africa was effective, but Israel is handled with kid gloves ... This international backing must stop."
Yet even in the face of these clear calls, many of us still can't go there. The reasons are complex, emotional and understandable. But they simply aren't good enough. Economic sanctions are the most effective tool in the non-violent arsenal: surrendering them verges on active complicity. Here are the top four objections to the BDS strategy, followed by counter-arguments.
Punitive measures will alienate rather than persuade Israelis.
The world has tried what used to be called "constructive engagement". It has failed utterly. Since 2006 Israel has been steadily escalating its criminality: expanding settlements, launching an outrageous war against Lebanon, and imposing collective punishment on Gaza through the brutal blockade. Despite this escalation, Israel has not faced punitive measures - quite the opposite. The weapons and $3bn in annual aid the US sends Israel are only the beginning. Throughout this key period, Israel has enjoyed a dramatic improvement in its diplomatic, cultural and trade relations with a variety of other allies. For instance, in 2007 Israel became the first country outside Latin America to sign a free-trade deal with the Mercosur bloc. In the first nine months of 2008, Israeli exports to Canada went up 45%. A new deal with the EU is set to double Israel's exports of processed food. And in December European ministers "upgraded" the EU-Israel association agreement, a reward long sought by Jerusalem.
It is in this context that Israeli leaders started their latest war: confident they would face no meaningful costs. It is remarkable that over seven days of wartime trading, the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange's flagship index actually went up 10.7%. When carrots don't work, sticks are needed.
Israel is not South Africa.
Of course it isn't. The relevance of the South African model is that it proves BDS tactics can be effective when weaker measures (protests, petitions, backroom lobbying) fail. And there are deeply distressing echoes of apartheid in the occupied territories: the colour-coded IDs and travel permits, the bulldozed homes and forced displacement, the settler-only roads. Ronnie Kasrils, a prominent South African politician, said the architecture of segregation he saw in the West Bank and Gaza was "infinitely worse than apartheid". That was in 2007, before Israel began its full-scale war against the open-air prison that is Gaza.
Why single out Israel when the US, Britain and other western countries do the same things in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Boycott is not a dogma; it is a tactic. The reason the strategy should be tried is practical: in a country so small and trade-dependent, it could actually work.
Boycotts sever communication; we need more dialogue, not less.
This one I'll answer with a personal story. For eight years, my books have been published in Israel by a commercial house called Babel. But when I published The Shock Doctrine, I wanted to respect the boycott. On the advice of BDS activists, including the wonderful writer John Berger, I contacted a small publisher called Andalus. Andalus is an activist press, deeply involved in the anti-occupation movement and the only Israeli publisher devoted exclusively to translating Arabic writing into Hebrew. We drafted a contract that guarantees that all proceeds go to Andalus's work, and none to me. I am boycotting the Israeli economy but not Israelis.
Our modest publishing plan required dozens of phone calls, emails and instant messages, stretching between Tel Aviv, Ramallah, Paris, Toronto and Gaza City. My point is this: as soon as you start a boycott strategy, dialogue grows dramatically. The argument that boycotts will cut us off from one another is particularly specious given the array of cheap information technologies at our fingertips. We are drowning in ways to rant at each other across national boundaries. No boycott can stop us.
Just about now, many a proud Zionist is gearing up for major point-scoring: don't I know that many of these very hi-tech toys come from Israeli research parks, world leaders in infotech? True enough, but not all of them. Several days into Israel's Gaza assault, Richard Ramsey, managing director of a British telecom specialising in voice-over-internet services, sent an email to the Israeli tech firm MobileMax: "As a result of the Israeli government action in the last few days we will no longer be in a position to consider doing business with yourself or any other Israeli company."
Ramsey says his decision wasn't political; he just didn't want to lose customers. "We can't afford to lose any of our clients," he explains, "so it was purely commercially defensive."
It was this kind of cold business calculation that led many companies to pull out of South Africa two decades ago. And it's precisely the kind of calculation that is our most realistic hope of bringing justice, so long denied, to Palestine.
Myra Bronstein
Unregistered
Is this part of Israel's strategy? Have they intentionally gone so far beyond the pale that Hamas has no choice but to reject negotiations?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28573204
Hamas chief says no chance of deal with Isreal
Hamas says attacks end negotiations; Abbas urges sides to accept truce
Image: Members of the Israeli military ride on their armored personnel carrier (APC) January 10, 2009 along the Israel-Gaza border in Israel
Members of the Israeli military ride on their armored personnel carrier on Saturday along the Israel-Gaza border in Israel. Despite calls for a cease fire, heavy fighting continues between Israel and Hamas militants.
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - A top Hamas leader said Saturday that the Gaza war has killed the last chance for settlement and negotiations with Israel.
Damascus-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal gave a fiery speech on the Arabic news channel Al-Jazeera condemning Israel's attack on the Gaza Strip, describing it as a "holocaust."
...
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Myra Bronstein Wrote:Is this part of Israel's strategy? Have they intentionally gone so far beyond the pale that Hamas has no choice but to reject negotiations?...
Precisely.
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