Pirates Ahoy!

[David Guyatt]

Hmm, I just re-read my post and it appears thats exactly what I said. It is also a complete LIE. I bought legal copies of all of the good films I've downloaded and deleted the rest.[/QUOTE]

Ah ha! :hello:

Would I be correct in my surmise that a great many of the legal copies you bought have since been passed on to other friends and relatives or generously given to charity shops and that they are, therefore, no longer in your collection?

[Damien Lloyd]

Hmm, I just re-read my post and it appears thats exactly what I said. It is also a complete LIE. I bought legal copies of all of the good films I've downloaded and deleted the rest.

Ah ha! :hello:

Would I be correct in my surmise that a great many of the legal copies you bought have since been passed on to other friends and relatives or generously given to charity shops and that they are, therefore, no longer in your collection?

Nice idea, but alas no, I keep all of my originals. I have hundreds of DVD's and with the rubbish on television they come in very handy. Everytime I turn on the box it's nothing but mind numbing garbage like Jade Goody's wedding plans. (No I'm not completely heartless. It is sad that someone her age is dying, but she is still a rascist bigot, and I can think of many other newsworthy stories that should be covered at the moment).

[David Guyatt]

Agreed. TV is usually complete crap these days. They must brainstorm for the worst possible ideas say, The Complete History of Snot, and then make a series out of it, and thereafter call it "Big Brother" or "Home and Away" etc.

I recently watched "Eagle Eye" "Seven Pounds" and also "Body of Lies", all very well worth watching I thought. As indeed was "Gran Torino" which I was not expecting to be particularly good.

Your fav pics?

[Damien Lloyd]

Agreed. TV is usually complete crap these days. They must brainstorm for the worst possible ideas say, The Complete History of Snot, and then make a series out of it, and thereafter call it "Big Brother" or "Home and Away" etc.

I recently watched "Eagle Eye" "Seven Pounds" and also "Body of Lies", all very well worth watching I thought. As indeed was "Gran Torino" which I was not expecting to be particularly good.

Your fav pics?

I just watched "Body of Lies", and "Taken" tonight, "Gran Torino" tomorrow.

My favourite film ever is Blade Runner. After that I have loads. Empire Strikes Back, The Godfather (1 and 2), Fight Club, The Fountain, Jean de Florette and Manon des Sources, The Big Sleep, The Third Man; to name a few.

Embarassingly I have a comfort film, it's like a security blanket, Raiders of the lost Ark. A sleepless night is ended by the time Indy gets the golden idle at the start, as my brain is relaxed from whatever was troubling it.

[Jan Klimkowski]

My favourite film ever is Blade Runner.

The Final (or Director's) Cut, I hope.... :top:

[Damien Lloyd]

[quote=Damien Lloyd]My favourite film ever is Blade Runner.

The Final (or Director's) Cut, I hope.... :top:

Actually I don't have a favourite version. I got the Final Cut boxset with all of the versions included on the day it was released. I've watched the final cut a few times and it's excellent, I like the way they got Harrison Fords son into the studio to film his mouth and fix the scene in Abdul Ben-Hassan's shop. Watching the workprint was fun too.

I grew up with the original European version (with extra violence and the cheesy talkover). I love that version, I'm obviously the only person I know who likes the cheesy talk over. The continuous narrative makes the film like a "Mike Hammer in Space" movie. I accept that it dumbs down the films narrative, removes the clues that Deckard is a replicant, and the add on ending (which used scenes borrowed from the cutting room floor of "The Shining") detracts from the whole feel of the movie. But with it's faults I still love it. The '97 directors cut I also love. I was obviously a lot older when I watched it and therefore able to appreciate the significance of the dream sequence, and the shorter (better) ending leaves you with a sense of apprehension as you worry about the future of these two illegal replicants as thier journey for freedom begins.

The Final Cut is obviously the best version. The scenes have been fixed, the visual effects tweaked, the sound and picture bought bang up to date and the film restored to be viewed as originally intended. But sometimes I want to hear the lines "Sushi, that's what my ex-wife called me. Cold Fish".

I used to teach a film studies course and whenever I started on genres I always began with Blade Runner and worked backwards. (starting with films from the 1930's never worked with a class of high school children, you have to teach the skills needed to appreciate all forms of cinema first).

Oh and when my daughter was born... I named her Rachael

[Jan Klimkowski]

All fair points.

But but but...

Most embarrassing ending of all time: Bladerunner original cut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en...re=related

Clean, revelatory ending which makes sense of everything you've just seen: Bladerunner Final Cut:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en...re=related

Plus the cop's origami figures are completely meaningless in the butchered studio version.

My problem with the original is not the Chandleresque voiceover - which I quite like. And the look and feel of the original is also great.

But as story - as soul - the original cut is a betrayal of the dark speedfreak genius of Philip K Dick and his musings on caritas as the heart of authentic human identity.

Deckard beckons Rachael across the hallway and she steps on one of the oriental copper's little origami figures. Deckard looks at it wrily - it's a very specific origami figure.

In his head, he hears the cop say

"Too bad she won't live. But then again - who does?"

Deckard knows what it means. Deckard joins Rachael in the lift, and the doors close hard, and the music booms over the dark endcredits.

[Damien Lloyd]

I agree, but something I should have pointed out is that when I first watched the original in 1983 I was 7, it was 10 years later that I actually read a book by Philip K Dick. If I'd watched the directors cut first I don't know if I would have been such a huge fan, and I probably wouldn't have understood the complex themes at that age.
A year later I watched David Lynch's Dune (my favourite novel) and absolutley loved it... It makes me cringe at times now (but is still a guilty pleasure). So all of those dumbed down versions of classic literature do actually work enough to attract a new fan base... If viewed by 7 year olds.

[Jan Klimkowski]

I agree, but something I should have pointed out is that when I first watched the original in 1983 I was 7, it was 10 years later that I actually read a book by Philip K Dick. If I'd watched the directors cut first I don't know if I would have been such a huge fan, and I probably wouldn't have understood the complex themes at that age.

A lot of the original, voiceover-driven, Bladerunner is excellent - I entirely agree.

However, as a filmmaker, I'm a tad obsessed with how story and meaning is created. A lot of director's cuts are primarily ways for studios to squeeze extra cash out of their "product". But there are a few movies where the different cuts genuinely represent different films.

Bladerunner is a great example.

Apocalypse Now and the later Redux are another fine instance. In the original, Willard, the Sheen character, is ruthlessly edited so that he doesn't smile or engage with the crew on the boat. In Redux, he horses about (eg the new surfboard scene), he pays for the kids to have a Playboy fantasy in a muddy hellhole, he is no longer entirely driven by his mission. Imo those restored scenes, shots, nuances, are all mistakes - although other viewers may very well disagree.

The French plantation chapter also fundamentally changes the meaning of the film. It shifts it towards a meditation on imperialism. Rather than the dark heart of ruthless action - the Milius vision as espoused by Brando/Kurtz in the timeless malarial temple.

Imo Redux is interesting. The original Apocalypse Now is fascinating.

Redux is about hubris, arrogance. Apocalypse Now is about the journey of the soul from honour to horror.

And a third example is another Ridley Scott film, Kingdom of Heaven. The original was butchered by the studio. After shite like Black Hawk Down, I thought Ridley had lost the plot, and watched the Director's Cut of Kingdom of Heaven solely because it was on the telly. And I was amazed.

I thought Kingdom of Heaven was unsalvageable. But, for me, the Director's Cut is probably Ridley Scott's best movie since Bladerunner.

[Damien Lloyd]

I watched the directors cut of Kingdom of Heaven by accident. I had absolutely no intention of sitting through that rubbish again and explained to my friends why the film was so bad. Of course all of those reasons were now obsolete and I looked quite foolish, as we enjoyed the film.

And I completely agree about redux except for one thing, the playboy bunnies at the camp. If that scene alone had been in the original I think Willards character would be truly terrifying. Finding the bunnies drugged up and being used as sex slaves, Willard uses it to his advantage. His river escorts had no problem continuing up river after that. And Willard is stripped of any humanity, or compassion that the viewer may have begrudgingly bestowed upon him prior to that.

Conveniently this brings us back to the boards topic. Why pay to watch an incomplete film at the cinema when the finished version will be released 6 months after the cinema version is published on DVD. Lord of the rings for example, is there any point at all in watching the cinema versions? As you say, most of the time a directors cut is just a way to squeeze more money out of people, I have the "Memento" boxset, which I understand (but have no intention of ever watching) has a version of the film re-edited so that the film runs in chronological order. POINTLESS thats not even interesting, it's just pointless.

And now I destroy any credibility I might have had as I admit that my favourite version of the Godfather was the "Epic" cut. This was a version of the first 2 films re-edited in chronological order that most people consider an act of barbarism. I know, I'm a dirty heathen but it is really really good, you just have to watch it all in one go (I downloaded a VHS conversion of it from the Piratebay, as you can't get it on DVD).

Why are good films so few and far between nowdays? When the best performace comes from a Batman movie I think thats a valid question. The past couple of years have been really poor with only a few truly memorable titles like "The Fountain", "The Fall", "The assassination of Jesse James", "Persepolis", and "Charlie Wilsons war". I'm struggling to think of more. This is why the PirateBay is as popular as it is. Until the corporations leave movie making to talented individuals instead of demographic surveys I don't think we'll see any improvment.