The Danger Of The Fetzer Assassination School

[Albert Doyle]

I should have said "overimaginative professor".

[Bernice Moore]

hi albert; i did the lancer show, and read all.i have a few comments for both you and Ralph, as well as some information that was asked about during the thread or commented on, that may correct or interest some and or add to the information gathered or not accepted i have no idea.so fwiw i will attempt...b...

[Bernice Moore]

For some reason, though these studies were done on rich's several threads during 2006, oct i think, studies and research that resulted were never carried through or bothered to be picked up by other members or visitors, and taken to compleion as far as pssible.......so fyi......the doorway of the tsbd was also photographed that day by another photographer, who imo film has never been studied further, that of the david wiegman film.......first david's information of his actions that day...posted oct 6. 2006 on rich's..

Hi Chris,

Hope this may help.....

David Wiegman:

"We were in that straight-a-way heading down to what I now know as
the Book Depository, and I heard the first report and I thought like every
body that it was a good size firecracker---a cherry bomb .Then when I
heard the second one, the adrenaline really started pumping because
there was a reaction in the motorcade, I was sitting on the edge of the
(car door) frame,which I sometimes did. I keenly remember right after
the incident that my feet were on the ground during one of the reports.
I don't think I was fast enough to react to the second, but I think on the
third one I was running.
The car had slowed down enough for me to jump out. I swung my leg
over and jumped while the car was still moving, but it was very slow.
I jumped and I remember running and I remember the third shot.

When I got out I knew I better get around the corner. The car was
stopping. I'd better run around there and see what was happening. I
knew the reaction was to run forward. I'd done this before in other
motorcades because a lot of times the President will stop and do
something. He might just shake a hand. He might look at a sign.
So your doing no good sitting in your car, and you can always
retrieve your car as it goes by....It was a technique I've used and
I've gotten some good pictures that way. That may have been built
in to get out and run and get up there and see what the heck's
happening . The motorcade has stopped, plus you heard a report
I don't think I thought on the first or second ( shot ), but when the
third one went off, I really thought I felt the compression on my face.
----I really thought I felt it. The I thought "Somebody is shooting".

The idea of turning on the camera, I don't know where that came
from. I've turned in some real sloppy work over the years that
went into editing because I believed that sometimes your not
photographing what's happening as much as the moment. It's a
slice of time. And something told me, "hey look, what have I got to
lose. I've got a full spring and just turn it on." I can't stop and plant
my feet, so I put it against my chest because you can't run with a
Filmo up to your eyes. So I just slid it down under my chin and
looked forward and ran as fast as I could and took in everything I
could."

Telephone interview Wiegman, 3/11/89..P.O.T.P...Trask..
pages 371-372.

..........................
He was in the Press car 1."the reel car"
the first with photographers aboard..A yellow 1964 Chev.Impala
convertible.

The President's Lincoln..The Queen Mary.SS...L.B.Js ...
SS..The Bell Telephone press pool car ..then the Press #1 Car..
(Wiegman's). Along with Atkins,Craven,John Hoefen,( Wiegman's
sound man..Front seat driving a Texas Ranger..then Cleve Ryan
then Wiegman on the passenger seat in the sixth car behind the
President..
He was carrying a Filmo movie camera,used no handle,
shot with left eye finders on left side of camera.Wide angle lens,
He thought he used a 10mm.that day..
Worked for NBC..TV cameraman..White House attachment every
day for 8 years..37 years old..

.........................
"It would appear through careful analysis of this film, and aided in
research done by Richard Sprague and Gary Mack ,on the timing
of the sequence, that Wiegman began filming
A LITTLE OVER THREE SECONDS:....
prior to the President BEING HIT IN THE HEAD".
Gary Mack 's,"Coverups!"..9/1982..p.2-5...9/1985, p.1-2..
Letter Richard Sprague to Robert Cuttler, 10/31/1982.
..........................
"Wiegman probably first pressed his camera trigger just after
the second shot."..clip.."begins as Wiegman's car is approaching
the TSDB, while the telephone car infront begins making the
left hand turn.".." shows various spectators on the steps of the
Book Depository as well as others on the sidewalk..Many are
looking forwards towards the presidential vehicle while some
are gazing back at the vehincles coming in their direction."
.Trask..p373
.......
In the film we see, the film begins with a panning of the front
entrance of the TSBD,swings to the left, then back to the right,
he then was on his way to the knoll,and behind the fence...see.
the film at below...click, Wiegman, then when page loads, click top
right hand corner button....ta da..

http://www.jfk-online.com/films.html
.................................
We have Wiegman capturing the TSBD entrance approximately
"A little over three seconds" prior to the President being hit in
head."..see above..Sprague..Mack..

......................
He continued filming as he ran his film shakes and jumps as he
spans the grassy knoll area, the Limo travelling to the underpass,
and what appears to
be smoke coming from under the trees in the area
of the fence ,then the pergola area
again, and some of the witnesses laying on the
ground,finally he proceeded to the
parking lot behind the fence area..
************************************8
Wiegman Film........

Dave Wiegman, Jr. (MPG, 7.5 MB)

http://www.jfk-online.com/1wiegman.html

********************************

at the time i did contact gary and asked if we might obtain a copy of his article but was told they were not available as they were all packed away.so that is not within the studies tried...b

Best B..

[Bernice Moore]

thank you to a friend, i finally see where, blackman went to, so ignore the above information, i am, was in error, i am attaching a photo, showing circled where the man is seen, in altgens, i could not see him before for looking, thanks much...this only makes my one trillionth mistook........b

The DAVE WIEGMAN DOORWAY PHOTO FRAME.....You will notice all i hope, that the man in the doorway at this time taken just before the 3rd shot, so the information relates is a Black Man, not anyone who resembles lho in any way..whomever is in the middle, right top step of the tsbd..it appears is taking a photo, too bad it's another not available...and a seemingly lho OR to the right of him on the top step......but there is the black man,on the left hand side it is NOT lho nor lovelady, on the tsbd lower step, as in Altgen's ......????????????.....Bhutup:

[Bernice Moore]

some further information, for whomever.......the Fritz notes were discovered by walt brown , credit given where due...http://www.clintbradford.com/arrb1120.htm

ARRB Press Release on Fritz Notes; walt brown.

title page; http://www.jfk-info.com/fritztit.htm

plus Baker did report that oswald had a coke in his hand, he simply chose the next day or whenever to scratch it out, and delete that information...see attached...me thinks that's about it for now, have a good read and look, it may be healthy for your blood pressures...take care best b

[Bernice Moore]

oops forgot a little ditty of info...b

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Shaw this tsbd man is still open to question...of all the book company employees who were asked to account for those around them during the shooting only Lovelady mentions himself as being on the steps, and only Shelley states that Lovelady was on those steps... cover -up shaw page 39....


ps below posted shows the press car 1 that Wiegman had been in then shows him in press car 2 in Dillard that he had gotten a ride in after his jaunt by foot down elm, , that is him with the fedora on, that's atkins running to catch a ride dave grabbed his hand and hauled him aboard just before the underpass...fwiw..
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[Seamus Coogan]

Seamus''Thus, I don't know where this anti-head shot stuff came from? My angle, and I cannot speak for Al is simply that if the Zap film was faked why leave it in there? ''

I just posted Seamus, in the Rich other film thread, i believe Rich says something like, well JFK did not die of a whip lash or, so they had to leave the head shot in, something like that there...take care b

Thanks for taking the time to post as per usual interesting call from Rich there. I won't go with it completely mate but it is an interesting point. I can understand Al's frustrations though Bern. It's the same old arguments used by Phil Nelson again. Further, I agree with Dawn as well these arguments are hardly going to impact on the case. But I have to stand with princpal here. JF and his acolytes cannot handle what they dish out. They are also rude and confrontational to the mods. If someone get's raggy at a bloke like Jan, then you seriously have a major attitude problem.

[Dawn Meredith]

Dawn

I am aware of most of the above except the headshot being "fake". I have not heard that before and just becasue Dan-I'd- Rather not didnot report it does not mean it did not occur. Tons of witnesses saw it. Just like tons of witnesses saw the second plane in NY. Jim I don't have the time or inclination to argue further with you. I wish you well. I just do not believe Bob Groden would be promoting a film that was THAT faked. You were not in Dallas so you did not see what happened to the president's head. I have read many witness accounts, including Abe Zapruder's. I have also talked with people who saw a plane hit the tower in New York. I was not in NY that day and I doubt you were either.
I have nothing further to say on the subject.

Dawn

Dawn possible misinterpretation. My angle was simply that because I had faulted Fetzer for decrying the fact I had taken the mickey out of JH's productions methods that I somehow 'disagreed' with the idea there were multiple shooters. Which is not true. Dawn I believe there were multiple shooters. Thus, I don't know where this anti-head shot stuff came from? My angle, and I cannot speak for Al is simply that if the Zap film was faked why leave it in there?

It looks perfectly plausible to me that JFK was hit from the front. So I really don't get why if your altering the film, you would leave it in there. That's just how I think and funnily enough in all the alterationist lit I have read, that has never been answered. Sadly, I think what your getting at, is that if we don't believe in JFK/ZAP forgery then Al and I don't believe in a conspiracy. That is simply not true.

Further Dawn, nope I wasn't there, nor was I born lol. But I have been to NY and Dallas. I did so in 2006. I literally put my money where my mouth was and it was amazing. And sheesh going to the Kennedy compound in Hyannis was amazing that almost stuck out for me more than the Plaza. As for NYC my god, I went and saw the WTC well what was effectively 140 ft worth of hole. Sheesh man, I went to the terminal sort of entrance place thing and man that was seriously freaky. I saw Willie Rodriguez hanging around like a salesman lol. By the way he is a big unit!!!! So no I wasn't there when it occurred but Dawn I had the nuts on very limited means to show my respects. And it was amazing. Next time if ever I am in Texas, it would be good to have a beer with you. Your someone I am gutted I didn't meet.

Love Coogs.

I agree. Why leave it in? I am not a beer drinker but I like wine or a mixed drink. I plan to be at COPA for the 50th anniversary....It would be great to get as many as possible there.
Better yet to have a united conference with Lancer. Perhaps Jim D. can assist...

[Albert Doyle]

So the greater powers made Baker erase the coke witnessing because they realized Oswald wouldn't have had enough time to linger and buy a Coca Cola and still be able to run down the stairs from the 6th floor. The conversation we'll probably never know about at the police station went "How much soda was gone from the bottle?" Baker: "Ah, about half a bottle" "You never saw that coke - understand..."

[Seamus Coogan]

So the greater powers made Baker erase the coke witnessing because they realized Oswald wouldn't have had enough time to linger and buy a Coca Cola and still be able to run down the stairs from the 6th floor. The conversation we'll probably never know about at the police station went "How much soda was gone from the bottle?" Baker: "Ah, about half a bottle" "You never saw that coke - understand..."

Greg Parkers done some great work on the Baker/Coke angle Al. As for Dawns idea. I'd love to see them all unite on that. I think a mass egging of thee 6th floor would be fun. Id love to be there as well. Dreams are very free lol shame a trip to the US is not lol.