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Albert,
I said that Cuba was an exception.
But that is because Kennedy was snookered into the Bay of Pigs fiasco. If that had not happened, things would have been different there I believe.
As per the Missile Crisis, that was a hare-brained miscalculation by Khrushchev.
But my point is that Kennedy was not going to invade Cuba with American forces. And I believe this was part of the formation of his ideas about imperialism in the fifties. Kennedy knew all about American imperialism in Cuba under Batista. And he was against it.
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I'd like to add my two cents here. I don't deny that Kennedy turned out to be an anti-colonialist and sincere worker for peaceful settlements of disputes, but he was in 1960 battling for votes in the presidential campaign against Nixon. In those days it was very difficult to see much difference between the Republican and the Democratic Party platforms, and between Nixon and Kennedy, particularly on questions revolving around communism (we should really say socialism, as communism as a form of stateless and classless society did not then, nor does it now, exist in any major country - look up the definitions in your dictionaries). In the United States we were still linked to the McCarthy era of the 1950s and lived in awesome fear of atomic war with the Soviet Union. The election results were very close.
Kennedy, politician that he was, had to tread carefully in speaking about peace and liberation of the colonial peoples in order to win the votes he needed to win. In those days to speak of equality for minorities and women (democratic views) immediately labeled one as a "communist". You had to be there to understand this; we had to sign 'loyalty oaths', believe it or not. Kennedy had a public persona to win votes, and a private view based on his extensive understanding of world history and his experiences and personal convictions, and his vision for America and the world. It's important not to confuse the two.
Adele
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Quite revelatory of the conflict between the "politics" of campaigning and the reality of the burden accompanying the Office of the POTUS.
GO_SECURE
monk
"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."
James Hepburn -- Farewell America (1968)
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Adele Edisen Wrote:Kennedy, politician that he was, had to tread carefully in speaking about peace and liberation of the colonial peoples in order to win the votes he needed to win. In those days to speak of equality for minorities and women (democratic views) immediately labeled one as a "communist". You had to be there to understand this; we had to sign 'loyalty oaths', believe it or not. Kennedy had a public persona to win votes, and a private view based on his extensive understanding of world history and his experiences and personal convictions, and his vision for America and the world. It's important not to confuse the two.
Adele Thanks for this reminder of how things were Adele. Well worth remembering. I remember hearing that for the Nixon - Kennedy tv debate, beside the us of tv make up, he had made himself seem far stronger on communism than Nixon whose persona was linked far more closely to that subject. Nixon was left floundering and meekly agreeing since all the bombast and wind had been taken out of his sails.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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Again and to be clear, I am on all too intimate terms with the demands placed upon those running for public office to assume positions and personae contrary to their most deeply held beliefs and natures.
One must be elected before one can bring about paradigm-shifting change.
I get it.
As I recently advised a candidate for public office -- let's call him Tony G -- it is the character Tony G, as opposed to the actual person, who is going to be presented to the electorate.
So it was the character JFK who campaigned as a Cold Warrior par excellence in 1960.
I get it.
By June 10, 1963, however, JFK had changed. Profoundly. Deeply.
Changed.
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These are all good comments I think by CD and Magda and Adele.
Greg, thanks for that video.
Its neat to see how candid JFK is in that interview. I mean even to admitting to 200 foot overflights over Cuba to get the Il 28's out.
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Charles Drago Wrote:Again and to be clear, I am on all too intimate terms with the demands placed upon those running for public office to assume positions and personae contrary to their most deeply held beliefs and natures.
One must be elected before one can bring about paradigm-shifting change.
I get it.
As I recently advised a candidate for public office -- let's call him Tony G -- it is the character Tony G, as opposed to the actual person, who is going to be presented to the electorate.
So it was the character JFK who campaigned as a Cold Warrior par excellence in 1960.
I get it.
By June 10, 1963, however, JFK had changed. Profoundly. Deeply.
Changed.
I'd say this: JFK was the same. But, "JFK", the character was a work in progress. He was evolving in profound ways on a deep level. He was beginning to mold his public persona to fit
his actual person...and it got him killed.
GO_SECURE
monk
"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."
James Hepburn -- Farewell America (1968)
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Greg Burnham Wrote:I'd say this: JFK was the same. But, "JFK", the character was a work in progress. He was evolving in profound ways on a deep level. He was beginning to mold his public persona to fit
his actual person...and it got him killed.
Which is why I like The Unspeakable because it shows this process attracted Sponsors in the metaphysical realm of good and evil that usually mark such persons for assassination.
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Magda Hassan Wrote:Adele Edisen Wrote:Kennedy, politician that he was, had to tread carefully in speaking about peace and liberation of the colonial peoples in order to win the votes he needed to win. In those days to speak of equality for minorities and women (democratic views) immediately labeled one as a "communist". You had to be there to understand this; we had to sign 'loyalty oaths', believe it or not. Kennedy had a public persona to win votes, and a private view based on his extensive understanding of world history and his experiences and personal convictions, and his vision for America and the world. It's important not to confuse the two.
Adele Thanks for this reminder of how things were Adele. Well worth remembering. I remember hearing that for the Nixon - Kennedy tv debate, beside the us of tv make up, he had made himself seem far stronger on communism than Nixon whose persona was linked far more closely to that subject. Nixon was left floundering and meekly agreeing since all the bombast and wind had been taken out of his sails.
Your memory is very good about that debate. Kennedy appeard to be the stronger contender compared to Nixon, and it boosted his image as a leader.
(And he was more clean-shaven.)
Adele
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Greg,
Thank you for that video interview of Kennedy. Towards the end he was asked about his battle with the head of U.S. Steel Company, Roger Blough, when Blough reneged on the agreement which had been reached between the steel workers union and the various steel companies to keep the price of steel down. Blough, representing the steel companies, told President Kennedy that they would raise the price of steel anyway.
Speaking of this incident, Kennedy was quoted as saying, "My father always told me that all businessmen were sons-of-bitches, but I never believed him until now!"
At the next press conference, Kennedy did a masterful job of paraphrasing that sentence. He said:
"The statement which I have seen repeated in one daily paper is inaccurate. It quotes my father as having expressed himself strongly to me, and in this I quoted what he said, and indicated that he had not been on many other occasions wholly wrong."
Source: THE HUMOR OF JFK, compiled by Booton Herndon.
Adele
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